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Speaker 1: Or Hey, I have a cartoon physics question for you.

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Speaker 1: Go for it. I have a PhD in cartoon physics.

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Speaker 1: You know, all right, I'm just glad to hear that

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Speaker 1: there is some physics and cartoons. But my question is,

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Speaker 1: if you were a superhero in a cartoon, who would

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Speaker 1: be your corresponding villain? Like the anti Jorge? You know,

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Speaker 1: working to spoil all my plans exactly? Paint us a

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Speaker 1: picture of who this character would be. There. Probably wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be an anti Jorge, you know, no, why not? Because

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Speaker 1: I think you know, my plans are usually pretty simple,

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Speaker 1: you know, draw cartoons and take naps. Who we want

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Speaker 1: to foil that? I guess maybe the anti Jorge would

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Speaker 1: just want to join you for a nap and a snack.

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Speaker 1: I guess that means you are the anti Jorge. M

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Speaker 1: I am my worst enemy him or handmay cartoonists and

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Speaker 1: the creator of PhD comics. Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a

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Speaker 1: particle physicist and a professor at you see Irvine, and

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Speaker 1: I can read a comic without criticizing the physics of it.

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Speaker 1: You cannot, or you can't. I can, Yeah, I can

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Speaker 1: totally suspend my physics disbelief when I see the Green

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Speaker 1: Goblin floating above the streets of New York City, What

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Speaker 1: I mean he could be on a drone. Yeah, those

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Speaker 1: now like personal drones. Yeah. I don't see any spinning

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Speaker 1: blades on the Green Goblins platform, though there's some weird

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Speaker 1: anti gravity device. They're green on green, that's why you

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Speaker 1: can't see them. What about Marvel movies? Can you watch

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Speaker 1: those and and suspend your physics disbelief? That's a little harder,

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Speaker 1: especially when the plot revolves explicitly around bending the laws

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Speaker 1: of physics and ways that make no sense, or when

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Speaker 1: they go into the quantum universe. That's alright, it's when

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Speaker 1: they try to time travel and tie their plot into nonsense,

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Speaker 1: sical knots that it drives me bonkers. Makes you want

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Speaker 1: to be a villain in the Marble universe, Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: all the villains in the Marble Universe seem to have

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Speaker 1: a PhD. They do. Hey, and you could be Doctor

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Speaker 1: Stranger maybe. But welcome to our podcast Daniel and Jorge

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Speaker 1: Explain the Universe, a production of Our Heart Radio in

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Speaker 1: which we critique the physics of the real universe. Does

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Speaker 1: everything out there makes sense? Is it possible to take

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Speaker 1: the entire physical universe, with all of its black holes

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Speaker 1: and supernovas and strange bendings and ripples of space, and

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Speaker 1: squeeze it all down into a human brain. Is it

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Speaker 1: possible to build a mental, mathematical model of the universe

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Speaker 1: that actually describes what's going on out there? Can we

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Speaker 1: ever wrap our minds around this crazy, bonkers physical reality.

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Speaker 1: We're not sure, but we can have a lot of

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Speaker 1: fun trying. Yeah, because it is a pretty amazing universe.

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Speaker 1: It's really big and really old, and there's a lot

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Speaker 1: to explore in it, a lot of interesting stories and

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Speaker 1: lots of interesting characters to give us fascinating insight into

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Speaker 1: how everything works. And we exploded so many different levels.

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Speaker 1: We think about the physics of hurricanes, we think about

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Speaker 1: solar systems, we think about galaxies. We also think about

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Speaker 1: tiny little particles. And I am constantly amazed that, frankly,

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Speaker 1: any of this works, since we don't understand the universe

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Speaker 1: at the tiniest level of vibrating strings or little space pixels.

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Speaker 1: It's incredible to me that we can understand the way

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Speaker 1: things emerge, that there's this sort of simplicity that arises.

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Speaker 1: It's not always chaotic and that lets us tell nice

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Speaker 1: little mathematical stories about what's going on around us. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because that is one of the goals of human existence,

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Speaker 1: I think, is to understand our context and to understand

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Speaker 1: how and why we're here and how we can make

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Speaker 1: it better. Yeah, and to make better and faster iPhones.

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Speaker 1: We need to understand how the world works so that

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Speaker 1: we can bend it to our will. But there's another

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Speaker 1: deeper pleasure there in just knowing and just understanding and

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Speaker 1: just unraveling the mysteries of the universe and having some

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Speaker 1: mastery of it to meet. There's a deep, deep satisfaction

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Speaker 1: in feeling like we have grasped something true about the universe.

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Speaker 1: Then it made it sound like we're here to critique

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Speaker 1: the universe or we physics critics. Is that what this

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Speaker 1: podcast is about? A little bit we are, you know,

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Speaker 1: we are trying to say, hey, this doesn't make any sense.

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Speaker 1: And because it seems like the arc of the scientific

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Speaker 1: universe it bends towards understanding when something doesn't make sense

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Speaker 1: or when something is ugly. That's sort of a clue.

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Speaker 1: It's a clue that says, maybe there's a simpler explanation,

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Speaker 1: maybe there's a beauty here that we haven't yet unwrapped.

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Speaker 1: It's sort of like points us in the right direction,

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Speaker 1: right right, or when they use the same old tired plot,

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Speaker 1: or it is a physical law and so therefore it's

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Speaker 1: not not as novel. Yeah, and sometimes we're here just

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Speaker 1: a critique how phys this name things, right, which isn't

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Speaker 1: exactly a critique of the universe as much as a

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Speaker 1: critique of scientists, right right. Hey, we need some kind

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Speaker 1: of like grading system. You know how some people have

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Speaker 1: the stars, and so some people use thumbs up or

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Speaker 1: thumbs down. Well what you would use bananas exactly? Would

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Speaker 1: but would five bananas be the worst or the best? Like, wow,

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Speaker 1: that's bananas? Is that a positive review or a negative review?

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Speaker 1: I think it's just kind of like a self explanatory

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Speaker 1: you know, like this thing is five bananas, it's one banana.

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Speaker 1: You know, how bonkers is it? That's the rating system? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I like that, Yes, as representing the bonker's nous of

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Speaker 1: the universe. Well, I'm pro banana in that context. At least,

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Speaker 1: I want the universe to be many bananas, so that

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Speaker 1: when we finally understand the true nature of reality, our

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Speaker 1: little minds are blown well, what's the most bananas you

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Speaker 1: would give something like the theory of the universe. I

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Speaker 1: don't think we should limit ourselves. I think there should

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Speaker 1: be the possibility of infinite bananas. The rating system goes

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Speaker 1: from zero to infinity. Yes, there's always something that's more

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Speaker 1: bananas than anything we've ever seen before. Maybe should be

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Speaker 1: five bananas maximum, but then each banana can have bananas

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Speaker 1: inside of it, or be made up of other bananas.

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Speaker 1: It's a continuous banana spectrum or likes all the way down,

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Speaker 1: but it is. We like to talk about this universe

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Speaker 1: and everything in it, not just kind of the big

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Speaker 1: amazing things like black holes and galaxies and quasars and

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Speaker 1: incredible stars, but also the little tiny particles that make

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Speaker 1: up everything, including you and I, exactly because we have

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Speaker 1: this hunch that one key to understanding the true nature

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Speaker 1: of reality is to pull it apart, used to figure

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Speaker 1: out what the smallest bits are and how they relate

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Speaker 1: to each other. What are the rules that these smallest

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Speaker 1: bits have to follow. Those should be the deepest rules

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Speaker 1: of the universe. And if you could somehow write down

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Speaker 1: the list of the basic elements of the universe and

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Speaker 1: how they interact, you would be looking at like the

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Speaker 1: source code of the universe and you could finally give

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Speaker 1: a definitive answer to how bananas is the universe. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you'd be like Neo, you know, when he's finally sees

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Speaker 1: the matrix, sees what everything is made out of. Behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes, that's the goal. But we know that we

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Speaker 1: aren't there yet, that the things that we are looking

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Speaker 1: at are now the basic constituents of the universe, because

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Speaker 1: there are things about them that don't make sense yet.

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Speaker 1: That suggests that there must be some deeper layers, some

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Speaker 1: smaller bits that follow even more fundamental rules. When we

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Speaker 1: look at the particles and we have understood there are

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Speaker 1: things about them that sort of jump out at us. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean you'd like to sort of talk about the

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Speaker 1: sort of the story arc of humanity and our understanding

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Speaker 1: of what things are made of, and how it's sort

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Speaker 1: of like each time we get closer and smaller and

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Speaker 1: we sort of get down to the smaller and smaller

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Speaker 1: bits of Lego like you talk about how the universe

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Speaker 1: is sort of put together like a Lego set. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's right. It's incredible to me that all of the

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Speaker 1: complexity that we see in the universe. You know, the bananas,

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Speaker 1: the black holes, the boogie boards, all of that stuff.

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Speaker 1: None of that is fundamental to the universe. And the

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Speaker 1: way that that complexity arises is not in like the

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Speaker 1: nature of the boogie board or the banana, but how

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Speaker 1: it's little bits are put together, as you were saying,

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Speaker 1: like lego pieces. You can use the same little bits

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Speaker 1: to make boogie boards or bananas or ban in the bread.

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Speaker 1: It's all made out of the same fundamental ingredients. And

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Speaker 1: so the key is understanding how those things come together.

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Speaker 1: What are the rules that let you arrange things into

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Speaker 1: different configurations? Why are some things allowed and other things

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Speaker 1: not allowed? Those are the deepest rules of the universe,

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Speaker 1: the ones that we want to uncover, right right? And

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Speaker 1: why do they hurt so much when you step on them?

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Speaker 1: It's another big question. I think there's a whole branch

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Speaker 1: of philosophy devoted just to that question, to lego or

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Speaker 1: to letting go, to the existential pain of legos, of

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Speaker 1: having to pick them up all the time? Is there

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Speaker 1: a universe in which legos feel good on your feet? Right?

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Speaker 1: Is there a universe in which they picked themselves up

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Speaker 1: by themselves? That that one I would give more bananas to.

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Speaker 1: Is there a universe in which legos step on us

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Speaker 1: and then the legos scream? Yeah. But we made a

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Speaker 1: lot of progress in the last few thousand years. We know,

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Speaker 1: we went from thinking that the universe was made out

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Speaker 1: of four elements win, fire, air, and another one and

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Speaker 1: uh dad, to like the periodic table of elements, and

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Speaker 1: now to like the fundamental particles. So we're golud and

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Speaker 1: smaller and more precise. I think it's fire, air, water,

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Speaker 1: and bananas. Those are the fundamental elements of the universe. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I agree from my reading of Greek philosophy, forget the

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Speaker 1: standard model. Let's switch to a hore hip banana model exactly.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, we have peeled back lots of layers of reality,

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Speaker 1: and we have a really nice description of how particles interact.

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Speaker 1: But you know, we look at this description and we

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Speaker 1: ask questions about it, questions that just sort of jump

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Speaker 1: out at you when you look at the patterns of

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Speaker 1: the particles. Yeah, and one of those interesting patterns is

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Speaker 1: this idea of antiparticles. It seems that every particle out

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Speaker 1: there that we know about has an antiparticle. Yeah, when

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Speaker 1: you look at a picture of the particles of the

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Speaker 1: standard model. They show you like up corks and down corks,

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Speaker 1: electrons and neutrinos. But what they don't show you is

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Speaker 1: that every particle that's there has a partner particle, and

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Speaker 1: like shadow twin electrons exist, but so do anti electrons.

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Speaker 1: Quarks exist, but so do anti corks. Every single kind

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Speaker 1: of matter particle out there, the things that make up

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Speaker 1: stuff that me and you and all the things in

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Speaker 1: the cosmos, they can exist, but also their antiparticles can exist. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and these fundamental particles are not the only kind of

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Speaker 1: particles there are in the universe. Physicists have found sort

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Speaker 1: of other kinds of particles that don't necessarily make up

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Speaker 1: matter but kind of exist both mathematically and possibly in

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Speaker 1: the real world exactly. This is one of those kinds

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Speaker 1: of patterns. What we say, it's interesting that all the

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Speaker 1: particles we've seen so far have antiparticles, and it's possible

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Speaker 1: mathematically for there to be particles without antiparticles where they

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Speaker 1: are their own antiparticles. And so because it's possible mathematically,

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Speaker 1: physicist wonder is it real physically? Yeah, These kinds of

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Speaker 1: special particles have a name. They're called my Urana particles

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Speaker 1: named after the physicist tore Magurana, and they'd be important

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Speaker 1: to those to how everything works, including neutrinas and maybe

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Speaker 1: even making quantum computers. That's right. And they might also

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Speaker 1: be clues to a real true crime mystery in physics,

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Speaker 1: which is what happened to a Torre Marana himself. Wait what,

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Speaker 1: there's a murder mystery in this in this podcast too.

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Speaker 1: They just suddenly turned into one of those murder shows.

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Speaker 1: That's right. We are now a true crime podcast for real.

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Speaker 1: Tore My Irana, a genius Italian physicist, came up with

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Speaker 1: this idea for the Marana particle in the thirties, and

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Speaker 1: one year after he came up with this proposal, he

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Speaker 1: mysteriously disappeared. Whoa man, I can't wait for ratings to

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Speaker 1: go up. Now that we're a crime podcast, are we

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Speaker 1: going to interview like everyone he knew and the neighbors

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Speaker 1: and stuff. We're gonna take field trips to Venezuela and

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Speaker 1: Argentina to track down potential sightings and no or not?

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Speaker 1: I mean if we have the budget. Yeah, this is

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Speaker 1: real stuff. He bought a boat ticket from Palermo to

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Speaker 1: Naples and sent a really cryptic telegram and then he

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Speaker 1: was never seen again. But there are pictures of people

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Speaker 1: who look a little bit like him which surfaced later

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Speaker 1: in Venezuela and in Argentina, so that all these theories.

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Speaker 1: Was he killed by a rival physicist, did he actually

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Speaker 1: escape to Venezuela because he knew he was going to

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Speaker 1: be killed, or did he just get on the wrong

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Speaker 1: boat and got confused. Oh man, Daniel, I am totally serious.

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Speaker 1: Let's do a crime Ast episode about this man. It's

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Speaker 1: a crossover podcast. But anyways, this theory is that there

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Speaker 1: are at least things called Mariorana particles, and they're kind

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Speaker 1: of interesting because they're sort of not like real particles maybe,

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Speaker 1: and also they are their own anti particles, or at

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Speaker 1: least they don't have antiparticles exactly. They are fascinating new

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Speaker 1: idea and how the universe can exist, and so maybe

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Speaker 1: part of the future of understanding the nature of the

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Speaker 1: universe and also potentially a path to building more robust

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Speaker 1: quantum computers. So on the podcast, we'll be tackling the

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Speaker 1: question are there particles that don't have antiparticles? I feel

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Speaker 1: like that's a double negative question, Daniel. They don't have

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Speaker 1: anti parts. Does that mean they're pro particles or they're

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Speaker 1: they're anti antiparticles? Aren't they're not antiparticles that don't not

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Speaker 1: have their own antiparticles? No, never say never. No, it's

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Speaker 1: an interesting question, you know, are their matter particles that

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Speaker 1: sort of are their own antiparticles that can like annihilate

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Speaker 1: with themselves. Maybe that's what happened to Tori ma Uranna.

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Speaker 1: He realized he was his own anti ma Uranna and

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Speaker 1: then that the knowledge immediately annihilated him. Wow, you may

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Speaker 1: have just cracked this mystery podcast over. You just spoiled

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Speaker 1: our trip to Venezuela. Man, Now we don't have to go, well,

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Speaker 1: we don't. This won't air for a while, right, we can,

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Speaker 1: all right, But he sort of invented this idea of

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Speaker 1: the Mayorana particles, and it's sort of an interesting concept

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Speaker 1: that maybe a lot of people don't know about. So

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Speaker 1: it's usually we're wondering how many out there had heard

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Speaker 1: of this and what they think it might be. So

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Speaker 1: thank you very much to everybody on the internet who

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Speaker 1: continues to participate and give answers to these random questions.

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Speaker 1: They're very helpful in guiding our podcast. If you like

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Speaker 1: to participate and hear your own voice on the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Please don't be shy. Everybody is welcome just right to

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Speaker 1: questions at Daniel and Jorge dot com. So think about

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Speaker 1: it for a second. What do you think is a

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Speaker 1: Mayorona particle? Here's what people have to say. I've read

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Speaker 1: about them on wikipea, but I think they're a weird

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Speaker 1: combination of quirks. So Magorana particles I think are probably

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Speaker 1: some kind of ultraspin for me, where it's has like

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Speaker 1: three half spin or five half spin, and it's has

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Speaker 1: just a very large excessive charge to it that brings

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Speaker 1: about very specific and unique properties that is kind of

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Speaker 1: only synthetically made and has never been discovered naturally, so

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Speaker 1: disappeared guests. But by the looks of the name, I

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Speaker 1: think it's a collection of particles which are very common

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Speaker 1: or a very larger number around us. Major Anna particles

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Speaker 1: are a big part of history. They're the remnants of

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Speaker 1: the Fall of Berlin, produced in May when Major Anna

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Speaker 1: Nicolina of the Red Army hoisted a Russian flag over

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Speaker 1: the Rice Stagg. The Majorana particles, I have no idea,

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Speaker 1: sounds like something somebody might put in a pipe and

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Speaker 1: smoke or something. I've known no clue, but I'm guessing

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Speaker 1: they're bigger and more major than the minor on a particles.

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Speaker 1: Sorry best guess. Yeah, not a whole lot of people

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Speaker 1: really knew anything about my orana particles. It did feel

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Speaker 1: a little bit technical, and so I thought, well, let's

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Speaker 1: try something new. Instead of asking random people to answer

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Speaker 1: a particle physical question, I thought, how well will a

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Speaker 1: particle physicist answer a question without any preparation? So you

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Speaker 1: asked your post doc who is from Scotland? That's right,

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Speaker 1: So here's Mike, my Scottish post doc, trying to answer

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Speaker 1: this question without any chance to prepare. My name is Mike, I,

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Speaker 1: UM post doc with Daniel at u C. I and

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Speaker 1: I research particle physics and machine learning, aspecifically top quarks

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Speaker 1: my irana particle. So you have different extensions to the

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Speaker 1: standard model can give you different kinds of UM interactions,

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Speaker 1: so you have to RAQ and my irana neutrinos and

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Speaker 1: I forget exactly what one is what, but they obeyed

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Speaker 1: different statistics and I should know which one's which, and

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Speaker 1: I don't. So I hope that makes you feel better,

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Speaker 1: and folks out there who didn't know what MYRNA particle is.

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Speaker 1: Even professional particle physicists people with PhDs don't always have

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Speaker 1: these things at their fingertips. So are you going to

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Speaker 1: fire him then, Daniel? Are we are we announcing that

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Speaker 1: here on the podcast? No, I'm giving him karma points

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Speaker 1: for participating Karma points. Oh, that sounds like you're going

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Speaker 1: to collect later on. I might have to make a

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Speaker 1: withdrawal at some point. You he owes you a favor. Well,

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Speaker 1: good luck to him in the future with that favor.

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Speaker 1: But it is an interesting question, this idea of mayoruna particles, Daniels,

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Speaker 1: So maybe step us through it first. What are they

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Speaker 1: and what do we know about them? So my aerna

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Speaker 1: particles would be like a different kind of matter particle

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Speaker 1: from all the ones that we are familiar with. And

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Speaker 1: to understand where this comes from, you sort of have

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Speaker 1: to go back to the early days of quantum mechanics

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Speaker 1: and understand how our current theory of matter arose and

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Speaker 1: why your anti matter comes from. And he goes back

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Speaker 1: to Paul DrAk He was trying to do something very difficult,

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Speaker 1: which is to bring together the new field of quantum mechanics,

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Speaker 1: which was describing how electrons and photons operated with the

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Speaker 1: new field of special relativity, which was trying to describe

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Speaker 1: how things operated at very very high speeds. Quantum mechanics

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Speaker 1: at that point had only really been able to solve

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Speaker 1: problems of sort of slow moving quantum objects, and Diract

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Speaker 1: was wondering, what happens when things get going really fast?

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Speaker 1: You have electrons at very high speed or photons moving

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Speaker 1: at the speed of light? Can we describe things which

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Speaker 1: are both quantum and relativistic? So you found a bunch

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Speaker 1: of particles that sort of follow this mathematical framework or

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Speaker 1: equations that direct made up, right, Yeah, So Diract made

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Speaker 1: up a mathematical framework. It's called the Dirac equation, and

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Speaker 1: it's basically like the super fast version of the shrouding

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Speaker 1: Er equation. But when he was putting that equation together,

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Speaker 1: he noticed something. He was trying to just describe electrons

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Speaker 1: and matter particles, but what he noticed was that his

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Speaker 1: equation had a symmetry to it that he could also

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Speaker 1: at the same time describe another kind of particle, a

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Speaker 1: particle with like a positive charge. So he called this

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Speaker 1: an antiparticle. He sort of discovered the antiparticle on the page. Right,

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Speaker 1: It's sort of like you invented the multiplying things by

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Speaker 1: itself and you find out that not only does one

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Speaker 1: kinds one equals one, but also like minus one minus

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Speaker 1: one is also equals one exactly. So he found that

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Speaker 1: the math that described the universe and the particles that

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Speaker 1: we saw also describe things that we hadn't yet seen.

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Speaker 1: And then he made this incredible sort of philosophical leap.

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Speaker 1: He was like, well, if the math describes it, it

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Speaker 1: must also be real. So he proposed that these things

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Speaker 1: might be real, that they might actually be out there,

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Speaker 1: and then pretty soon afterwards in experiments people found them.

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Speaker 1: They saw evidence of antiparticles, and you know, I think

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Speaker 1: you can't really overstate the sort of philosophical brevera. They're like,

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Speaker 1: if the math describes it, it is real. Is really

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Speaker 1: a huge step to take. Yeah, Because he was trying

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Speaker 1: to come up with the equations that described something that

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Speaker 1: he had seen, and then he found these questions also

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Speaker 1: worked for like the inverse of the particles, and so

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Speaker 1: he said, hey, maybe those exist too, Maybe those exist too, right,

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Speaker 1: And he was right. This guy direct was sort of

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Speaker 1: famous for not being short on sort of intellectual self confidence.

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Speaker 1: As he was giving his Nobel Prize acceptance speech for

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Speaker 1: basically predicting the existence of the positron the anti electron,

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Speaker 1: he made more predictions for more antiparticles, which were then

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Speaker 1: borne out a few years later. Like what in his

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Speaker 1: in his acceptance speech he embedded some bananas inside the bananas. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and he was right about all of it. Wow, what

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Speaker 1: do you do? When he accepted the Nobel Prize for

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Speaker 1: those he predicted the anti Nobel Prize, he invented a

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Speaker 1: whole new kind of a prize. But he wasn't the

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Speaker 1: only one out there playing with the mathematics of quantum

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Speaker 1: mechanics and special relativity. And the formulation that he came

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Speaker 1: up with, it does seem like it describes the matter

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Speaker 1: that we see in our universe. But there was another

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Speaker 1: physicist at Torre Marana. He came up with another equation,

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Speaker 1: another equation which also unified quantum mechanics and special relativity.

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Speaker 1: But the symmetry of his equation was different. It didn't

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Speaker 1: require the existence of these anti particles. It didn't have

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Speaker 1: this like other shadows side to the universe that it

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Speaker 1: suggested in my Irana's equation. Every particle sort of was

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Speaker 1: its own antiparticle. Well wait, wait, wait, what do you mean,

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Speaker 1: like he did did he know about diras work or

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Speaker 1: was he working independently? You knew about diracs work, it

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Speaker 1: was famous, but he was just like, well, let's see

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Speaker 1: what else we can do. Also, you know, the communication

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Speaker 1: between folks back then in the thirties wasn't nearly as

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Speaker 1: tight as it is today. People don't just like post

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Speaker 1: their papers on the Internet and the next day you

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Speaker 1: read about it. So I'm sure it's the kind of

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Speaker 1: thing he had been thinking about and playing with for

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Speaker 1: several years, even if he was aware of Dirac's work,

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Speaker 1: and so you can probably treat it as an independent

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Speaker 1: line of study. Though I'm sure he was aware of

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Speaker 1: what Dirac was doing. But he came up with this

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Speaker 1: other equation, and this equation, unlike diracx equation, didn't sort

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Speaker 1: of like look different in the mirror directs equation. If

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Speaker 1: you flip the signs, you get equations to describe a

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Speaker 1: different kind of matter antimatter. My Irona's equation has a

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Speaker 1: symmetry in it so that if you flip the signs,

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Speaker 1: everything just looks the same. But what was he trying

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Speaker 1: to do, I guess is the question was was he

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Speaker 1: trying to describe regular particles like electrons and protons and

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Speaker 1: things like that in quirks or was he just playing

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Speaker 1: around with the equations. That's sort of a good question

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Speaker 1: for all of theoretical physics. What are you guys trying

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Speaker 1: to do? Are you trying to describe the universe? Are

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Speaker 1: you just playing around with the equations? Are you doing

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Speaker 1: cartoon physics or real physics? Sometimes just playing around with

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Speaker 1: the equations is discovering the nature of the universe, right,

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Speaker 1: Like what is possible mathematically might be what is real physically.

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Speaker 1: That's sort of the amazing thing about diracts discovery, right

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Speaker 1: that just because antimatter particles were possible mathematically, he predicted

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Speaker 1: they existed physically. And so my Irono was sort of exploring, like,

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Speaker 1: what other ways can we follow the rule equantum mechanics

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Speaker 1: and follow the rules of special relativity and be mathematically coherent.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that kind of matter also exists out there in

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Speaker 1: the universe. Was he thinking it was a different kind

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Speaker 1: of matter or did he think, like, hey, maybe this

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Speaker 1: will eventually describe the regular matter. His kind of equation

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Speaker 1: can't describe electrons for example, because myrona particles that they

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Speaker 1: exist have to have zero charge so that they are

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Speaker 1: their own antiparticle. That you can't be a plus one

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Speaker 1: charged particle and be a myrona particle because then your

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Speaker 1: antiparticle would be minus wine charge. So his equation can

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Speaker 1: only describe uncharged particles. So that rules out most matter particles, right,

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Speaker 1: because most matter particles have some sort of charge. If

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Speaker 1: it's not electromagnetic, it's you know, the strong force or

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Speaker 1: the weak force. Right, that's right. But there are some

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Speaker 1: particles that don't have electric charge and might be their

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Speaker 1: own antiparticle, and those are neutrinos. Neutrinos are still very mysterious,

428
00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 1: and we still don't know today if neutrinos are direct

429
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,440
Speaker 1: particles as described by directs equation or if they are

430
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 1: myrona particles as described by myron as equation. M sounds

431
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 1: like another mystery podcast. Who killed the neutrino? Why is

432
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 1: it so neutral? All right, well, let's get into more

433
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 1: about this interesting new kind of particle and what other

434
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,640
Speaker 1: particles might fit into that category. But first let's take

435
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 1: a quick break. All right, we're talking about particles that

436
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: maybe don't have antiparticles. I guess they're pro particles, Daniel,

437
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 1: they're not antiparticles, so they must be pro particle. Yeah.

438
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,159
Speaker 1: And you know, there are some particles in nature we

439
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 1: know of that are their own anti particles. For example,

440
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 1: the photon. The photon doesn't have an anti photon to it,

441
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 1: and the higgs doesn't have an anti higgs. That doesn't

442
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 1: make it a myrona particle because myerna particles describe fermions

443
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 1: matter particles like quarks and electrons or maybe neutrinos, whereas

444
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 1: photons are bosons. They're a different kind of particle and

445
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: aren't described by myronics equations. But in that sense, we

446
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 1: do have examples of particles that don't have antiparticles. Interesting,

447
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 1: I guess what's the difference between fermions and bosons? Like,

448
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: how do you where do you draw the line? Yeah,

449
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:29,959
Speaker 1: well we draw the line in how they spin. Remember

450
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: we talked about how particles have this weird property called

451
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,159
Speaker 1: quantum spin, which is sort of related to real spin,

452
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 1: but it's not really the same because you can't think

453
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,880
Speaker 1: of them as like actually spinning. You think of it's

454
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,120
Speaker 1: sort of like a label that particles have, though it's

455
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 1: deeply connected to angular momentum, so it's more than just

456
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 1: a label. Anyway, you go check out our whole episode

457
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: about quantum spin. It's at least one hour of material

458
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 1: right there. But fermions have half spin, which means they

459
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 1: can be spin up or spin down, and bosons have

460
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 1: integer spin. So the eggs boson just doesn't spin at all.

461
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,360
Speaker 1: It's spin zero. The photon is spin one, which means

462
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 1: that it can spin up or can spin down. And

463
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 1: you can do another weird thing, have like a circular polarization,

464
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 1: and so it just depends on what kind of spin

465
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 1: states these particles can have. Bosons are integers and fermons

466
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,959
Speaker 1: are half integers. Wait are you saying the only difference

467
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 1: between being a matter particle and not being matter is

468
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 1: the half spin the half spin. I think usually what

469
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 1: we call matters like stuff that feels substantial, right, that

470
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,400
Speaker 1: sort of like makes stuff up in the in the universe.

471
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: And usually that's the stuff that feels gravity and force, right,

472
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 1: like dark matter. We say it's matter because it feels gravity. Yeah,

473
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,639
Speaker 1: that's true, but remember gravity actually couples to everything with energy,

474
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 1: so gravity is influenced by photons and by Higgs bosons.

475
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: You know, some people think that the Higgs field is

476
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 1: the thing that's driving the accelerated expansion of the universe

477
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: because it's a large potential value. So actually, even though

478
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 1: matter is the thing makes up stuff, all the energy

479
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: inside your body is some of it's contained in bosons,

480
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: like gluons inside your protons contribute to your mass. So

481
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 1: I think the confusion is that we call these things

482
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 1: matter particles, but really what you are made out of

483
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 1: is both a combination of fermions and bosons, all of

484
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 1: which contributes to your gravitational effect on the universe. I

485
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 1: see you're saying, we're we're all just energy. At the end,

486
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 1: the word matter doesn't really matter. I guess um. It's

487
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 1: just really from a physics point of view, the word

488
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: matter just means that it has a half spin half

489
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: quantum spin. As usual, we've taken a word that has

490
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: a common sense meaning and used it in a slightly

491
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 1: different way to be very confusing. Yeah, and it seems, uh,

492
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 1: in an arbitrary way, a little bit arbitrary. But yeah,

493
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: we call matter fields everything that's a fermion, and radiation

494
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,239
Speaker 1: fields everything that's a boson. And there are other differences. Right,

495
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 1: Bosons can all be in the same state, and fermions

496
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: can't be in the same state, so they really are

497
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,959
Speaker 1: different kinds of fields. Okay, so the rex equations supplied

498
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: both matter and non matter particles, but you say my

499
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:08,640
Speaker 1: urannas equations only applied to matter particles or non matter particles.

500
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: Dirac and my irona both just described fermions. So these

501
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 1: equations only described fermions, but directs equation describe fermions that

502
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: have anti fermions, whereas my irons equations described fermions that

503
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 1: are their own anti fermion, which is not a particle

504
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 1: we've seen before. Like in all the list of particles

505
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: we have in the universe, we have all different kinds

506
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: of fermions, but we haven't ever seen one that is

507
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 1: its own. Antiparticles, but we know that antiparticles exist, So

508
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: I guess what makes us think that my uronas equations

509
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: are a good way to describe the universe. You're right,

510
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: antiparticles exist, and that's exactly what makes us think that

511
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: maybe my irna was on the right track. The mantra

512
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: is sort of like, the universe does everything that's allowed

513
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 1: when particle physics. If something isn't prohibited. It just happens

514
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: like those are the rules. Particles will do everything that's

515
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: not like explicitly prohibited. They're sort of like children in

516
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: that way. You know, if you don't say that you

517
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: can't put chocolate chip cookies up your nose, eventually your

518
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 1: kids will try it. That's a whole different mystery right there.

519
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: That's right now, this is switched into being a parenting podcast.

520
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: Oh man, those are also super popular. Let's just make

521
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 1: like the one podcast that unified, the grand unifying podcast

522
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: of everything exactly. But the philosophy here is, Look, if

523
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 1: the mathematics says it's okay, quantum mechanics says it has

524
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 1: no problem with it, relativity says it has no problem

525
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 1: with it, then maybe the universe is doing it. Right,

526
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: if there's no reason not to do it. Then what

527
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 1: we've seen in the past is that the universe does

528
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: it just like with antiparticles. We had never seen one before,

529
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: but the mathematics said it's possible, and then turns out, yeah,

530
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: the universe has a lot of antiparticles in it also.

531
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: So the idea is just like, if it's allowed, then

532
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,239
Speaker 1: probably the universe is doing it. I see and so

533
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 1: you're saying that there are particles that don't have an

534
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: antiparticle like their their own antiparticle, and so does that

535
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: mean that they can't be described within the wract equations

536
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: or they still can, but there also could be described

537
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: by mayoranas equations. So there are bosons like photons that

538
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: are their own antiparticle. They are not my aerona particles

539
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: because their bosons Myrona only describes fermions. So what we're

540
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: looking for is whether there are fermions that are their

541
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 1: own antiparticle. And so we know that electrons are not

542
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: myorona particles. They're definitely direct because we've seen their antiparticles.

543
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: We know that quarks are direct particles because we've seen

544
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: anti quarks. One question is what about neutrinos. Are neutrinos

545
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 1: direct particles? Are there anti neutrinos or are they actually

546
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: myrona particles Like a neutrino is its own antiparticle. Oh,

547
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: I see, like maybe a new trina shouldn't be grouped

548
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: in with the other particles. Maybe it's like its own

549
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 1: whole other category of mathematical particles. Yeah, because neutrinos are

550
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 1: very very weird. Not only do they have no electric charge,

551
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: which means that they could theoretically be their own anti particle.

552
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 1: They're also just different in so many other ways. Right.

553
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 1: For example, neutrinos have very very very tiny little masses. Particles,

554
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: as we talked about, get their masses from the Higgs boson,

555
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: but that doesn't explain like why particles have certain masses,

556
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: and there's a huge range of these masses, like top

557
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 1: corks are billions of electron bolts, and leptons are millions

558
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: of electron bolts, and then really far down on the

559
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 1: other edge of the scale are neutrinos, which have masses

560
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 1: of like single electron bolts or even less, so they're

561
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: like one million the mass of everything else. And that

562
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 1: makes people wonder, like do they really talk to the Higgs?

563
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: That's the way the other particles do. It seems sort

564
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 1: of like a different kind of thing. But they do

565
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 1: have some mass, even if it's super little. That means

566
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: it does interrite with the Higgs. Well, there are other

567
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: ways to get mass. Remember, the Higgs is one way

568
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: to get particles mass. It's a meta chanism that can

569
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: give mass to particles, but it's not the only way

570
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: that particles can get mass, and we suspect that there

571
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 1: are other things out there in the universe that are

572
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: not getting mass from the Higgs. For example, dark matter.

573
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: Dark matter we're pretty sure is out there. We think

574
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: it might be a particle, and if so, it's almost

575
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: certainly not getting mass from the Higgs. In order to

576
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,719
Speaker 1: be a particle and get your mass from the Higgs,

577
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: you have to satisfy a couple of requirements. One is

578
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 1: you have to be a direct particle, you have to

579
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 1: have an antiparticle, and the other is that you have

580
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: to feel the weak force, because the Higgs boson is

581
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: all tied up with the weak force. So dark matter

582
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 1: might have an antiparticle, So there might be anti dark matter.

583
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: We don't know, but it doesn't feel the weak force

584
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: and so it doesn't get its mass from the Higgs.

585
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: The ntrino definitely feels the weak force, it's definitely part

586
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 1: of that. So that's possible, but we don't know if

587
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 1: it has an antiparticle, and that's necessary in order to

588
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 1: get your mass from the Higgs boson, because remember the

589
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: way the Higgs boson gives a particle it's mass is

590
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 1: that you have like this particle sort of swimming through

591
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: space and it can sort of emit a Higgs boson,

592
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 1: But in order for that to happen, you have to

593
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 1: be able to have a Higgs boson talk to a

594
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: particle and an antiparticle at the same time. It means,

595
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: for example, like a Higgs boson needs to be able

596
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 1: to decay into that particle and it's antiparticle. There's just

597
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 1: no way for a Higgs particle to talk to particles

598
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 1: that don't have their own antiparticles. Well, I feel like

599
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 1: it's a really big change from how people usually talk

600
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 1: about things because you know, when they describe the Higgs boson,

601
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: even like here on the podcast, we usually say it's

602
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: the particle that gives other particles mass, but really we

603
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: should be saying it's the particle that gives some particles mass.

604
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: Like maybe other particles don't get their mass from the Higgs,

605
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 1: like maybe the Higgs um. That is not the last

606
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 1: word on giving things mass. Yeah, we're pretty sure it's

607
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 1: not the only way to give mass. Two particles. We

608
00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: haven't ever seen other particles get mass in other ways.

609
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: So it's like we know for sure it's not the

610
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: only way for particles to get mass, but we've never

611
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 1: seen anything else do it, and so it's sort of

612
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: like the possibility is there theoretically, but you know, until

613
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: we've seen another example, the Higgs is sort of the

614
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 1: only one on the playing field I see. So I

615
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,839
Speaker 1: guess the question or the story is that when you're

616
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: you're saying that maybe some particles like neutrinos or maybe

617
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 1: even dark matter could be the whole different kind of particle,

618
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: like maybe a urana particle that doesn't interact with the Higgs,

619
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 1: it gets mass in a totally different way exactly. And

620
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 1: and for neutrinos, really the only clue we have is

621
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 1: that their masses are weird. Right. The way the particles

622
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: get masses from the Higgs field is that they interact

623
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: with the Higgs field, and different particles get different masses

624
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: because they interact with the Higgs field that different strengths.

625
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 1: The top cork interacts a lot with the Higgs field,

626
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: so it gets a big mass. The electron interacts less

627
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 1: with the Higgs field, so it gets less mass. So

628
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 1: it's possible the neutrinos just like very barely hardly interact

629
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 1: with the Higgs field and so get any tiny masses.

630
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: But that would be really weird, like why are those

631
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 1: numbers so so tiny a million times smaller than the

632
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:11,839
Speaker 1: other particles. Maybe instead it's a more natural, simpler explanation

633
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 1: if they're getting their mass another way, if they have

634
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 1: Myerona masses instead of direct masses from Higgs field. WHOA,

635
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 1: and you're saying they could also explain maybe dark matter,

636
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 1: like maybe dark matter is good to also be a

637
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,399
Speaker 1: mi Orona particle. That would also explain why we can't

638
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 1: see it. Dark matter could be a Myrona particle. Exactly,

639
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 1: we know that dark matter, if it has mass and

640
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: it's a particle, it has to get its mass in

641
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 1: some other way from the Higgs field, because we don't

642
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: think that it feels the weak force. So exactly, it's

643
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,799
Speaker 1: possible that dark matter also gets its mass through a

644
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: Myrona mechanism. We cracked the mystery releasa how to ask

645
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 1: about it? Maybe dark matter killed my ironic because it

646
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: didn't want it to like spill its secrets. Cosmic conspiracy.

647
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: All right, Well, let's get into whether or not we've

648
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 1: actually seen my Orana particles and what we can claim

649
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: we've seen about them. First, let's take another quick break,

650
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: all right, we're talking about murder mystery. Welcome back to

651
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,800
Speaker 1: what happened to a torm Rana? Only particles in the building.

652
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: It was a dark and stormy night. It probably was

653
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:29,839
Speaker 1: a dark and stormy night. Yeah. He might have gone

654
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 1: to Argentina. He might have gone to Venezuela. He might

655
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 1: have also sadly killed himself. There are also some theories

656
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: that he gave up physics and his entire life and

657
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: just became a beggar wandering the streets of Naples forever?

658
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,800
Speaker 1: Does that happen often with physicists? I think there's sometimes

659
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: this dream of a simpler life, you know, you're not

660
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: struggling with funding agencies and intellectual rivals. I don't know,

661
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 1: not something that I've been tempted by. Interesting. All right, well, um,

662
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 1: so we talked about how there might be this whole

663
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: new class of particles called magorona particles. There's totally different

664
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 1: than the other particles we know about the quarks and

665
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: the electrons, because they're described by totally different mathematical equations.

666
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 1: But the only reason we think they might exist is

667
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: because there is a mathematical equation that might describe them,

668
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 1: which is kind of a loop and thinking there, but

669
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 1: we haven't actually seen any, have we We have not

670
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: seen any Myrona particles in the universe. But there's sort

671
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: of two ways that we could see them. We could

672
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: see like fundamental Myrona particles, like things we think are

673
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: fundamental elements of the universe, like electrons and quarks, whatever,

674
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: and in neutrino would be in that category. If a

675
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: neutrino was a Myrona particle instead of a direct particle,

676
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 1: that would be mind blowing, That would be a huge discovery.

677
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:45,360
Speaker 1: Another way is to see like quasi particles that follow

678
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,959
Speaker 1: the same mathematics of the myron equation, but there aren't

679
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 1: really particles in the exact same sense of the word, right,

680
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 1: Like they're not fundamental to the universe. They're just they

681
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 1: just kind of like come up kind of like um

682
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,959
Speaker 1: sometimes atoms get together and they form a little ball,

683
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: and you can treat that as a particle. Sort of

684
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 1: goes to a deeper question, which is like what is

685
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: a particle anyway? You know? And quasi particles we have

686
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,479
Speaker 1: a whole fun podcast episode about what they are. They're

687
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 1: like persistent quantized discrete you know, excitations of solids instead

688
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 1: of like persistent, quantized, discrete excitations of fundamental fields of

689
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 1: the universe. So instead of like you know, an excitation

690
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: in the electron field, you have an excitation in some

691
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: like weird semiconductor or in some crystal or in some fluid.

692
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 1: But mathematically they follow the same rules, and so we

693
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 1: call them quasi particle. Right. It's sort of like an

694
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 1: ocean wave, like a wave in the in the ocean

695
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,319
Speaker 1: or a lake. It's actually a wave in water. It's

696
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: not a wave in the sort of fundamental field of

697
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 1: the of the universe, but it's still described by a

698
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: wave equation. Yeah, exactly, it's the same mathematics. And so

699
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,800
Speaker 1: you know, you could say, hey, quasi particles are particles too,

700
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 1: and that's this reasonable point, you know, philosophically, Really, what's

701
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 1: the difference. It's just the underlying thing that is oscillating,

702
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 1: Like an ocean wave is still a wave. Ocean waves

703
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 1: are definitely still waves, especially when they slam down upon you.

704
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 1: Even if they're not waves in the fundamental fabric of

705
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 1: space time still powerful. Be funny if people could serve

706
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 1: a strap concepts, it'd be cool to be a gravity

707
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 1: wave surfer. That sounds like a cool superhero, right, yeah,

708
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 1: I think that has already been invented actually by Marvel.

709
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 1: He's called the Silver Surfer. What is he sing on anyway,

710
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe gravitational waves. But it's still possible

711
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: that we could discover fundamental myron of particles. Like the

712
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 1: jury is still out on whether the neutrino is its

713
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,879
Speaker 1: own antiparticle or not. And if it is its own antiparticle,

714
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: it can do something really interesting. You can annihilate itself.

715
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 1: So like when a neutrino hits another neutrino, they could

716
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,800
Speaker 1: just like poof, turn into a little blob of energy,

717
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 1: the same thing that happens when an electron it's a positron,

718
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 1: they annihilate and turn into like a photon. So if

719
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 1: neutrinos are my or on a particles, they can annihilate

720
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 1: into each other. Well, but I guess the question is

721
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 1: with the netrino, if it is a ma Urona particle,

722
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 1: does that mean that it's it's like it's writing some

723
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 1: other type of quantum field, like a Maurana quantum field,

724
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 1: or would it still be right in the same kind

725
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 1: of field as the other particles, or maybe not even

726
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:20,919
Speaker 1: a field at all. Yeah, great question. It's still would

727
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: be a quantum field, and it still would be an

728
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 1: oscillation in that quantum field. But yeah, it would be

729
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 1: sort of a different field that follows a slightly different equation.

730
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: But these rules for what happens to fields are all

731
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 1: following quantum mechanics and relativity. Right. But you're saying, like,

732
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 1: maybe there are many fields in the universe, some of

733
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 1: them follow one set of equations and others follow another

734
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 1: different set of equations. Absolutely, And we know that's true

735
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: already because we see like Fermion fields and Boson fields

736
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 1: and fields with mass and fields without mass. Right, you

737
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 1: can unify these all into like one grand equation perhaps,

738
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 1: but there are different equations that describe the emotions of

739
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 1: different fields. And again here we're talking about are like

740
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 1: how oscillations move through the fundamental fields of the universe,

741
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 1: And we're developing mathematics wave equations, for example, to describe

742
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 1: that that are also consistent with the underlying quantum mechanics

743
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: and rules of special relativity. And so we're saying, hey,

744
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 1: if the fields can do this kind of wiggle and

745
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:18,800
Speaker 1: some other fields can do that other kind of wiggle,

746
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 1: oh interesting, alright, So then um, but you're saying that

747
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,720
Speaker 1: we've seen we've sort of seen myrna particles, but maybe

748
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 1: at like the water wave level, but not at the

749
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:31,240
Speaker 1: like the fundamental level. They are really cool experiments trying

750
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 1: to see fundamental myrona particles neutrinos, And if you're interested

751
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,280
Speaker 1: in that, you should check out our episode on neutrino

752
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 1: masses and neutrino lists double beta decay, which is crazy

753
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 1: set of experiments that are basically trying to smash neutrinos

754
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,359
Speaker 1: into each other to see if they annihilate. But there

755
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 1: are other ways to look for myrona particles, and those

756
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 1: are myron a quasi particles, as you say, like the

757
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 1: wave level version, and here people are trying to create

758
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: myrona fermions not as neutrinos, but as like emergent properties

759
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 1: of semiconductors. But they wouldn't be fundamental, right like they

760
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 1: wouldn't They would just be sort of like a thermodynamics

761
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,359
Speaker 1: law or something something that describes links at a much

762
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 1: sort of higher level than fundamental particles. Yeah, not individual

763
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 1: fundamental particles, but if you can get fundamental particles to

764
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 1: act together so that together they do something which follows

765
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 1: the rules of the Myron equation. Then you can say, oh, look,

766
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 1: we've seen an emergent Myron AFFIRMI on the same way, like, yeah,

767
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,280
Speaker 1: if you're talking about waves, they're following the wave equation.

768
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,239
Speaker 1: What are the individual particles of the way of doing

769
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:39,720
Speaker 1: Who knows? They're not following the wave equation. But together

770
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 1: all those particles acting in concert are following the wave equation.

771
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 1: So now you get a bunch of electrons together, put

772
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 1: them under very strange conditions nano wires and very strong

773
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 1: magnetic fields, and get them to do a funny dance,

774
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 1: a dance which is described by the mayrona equation. Then

775
00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 1: you can say I've seen a Mayer on a quasi particle. Woa.

776
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:04,240
Speaker 1: But I guess that would just validate that the equation works.

777
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 1: But it wouldn't. Would it tell you something fundamental about

778
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 1: the universe. Oh, that's a really good question and a

779
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 1: huge argument between different fields of physics. You know, people

780
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 1: say like, well, if you discover myronof fermions in solid

781
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 1: state physics as quasi particles, does that tell you that

782
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 1: they're allowed in the universe? I don't really know. It

783
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 1: tells you that the physics of the equation is valid

784
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:27,840
Speaker 1: the same way like seeing waves tells you. Yeah, the

785
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 1: wave equation works, and that helps you have confidence that

786
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 1: you can use the wave equation to talk about fluctuations

787
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 1: of quantum fields. Also, it doesn't mean that there are

788
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 1: quantum fields following that same equation necessarily, So there's a

789
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,319
Speaker 1: deep argument there about what it really tells you about

790
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 1: the universe. Yeah, just because you see an ocean wave

791
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:51,439
Speaker 1: doesn't mean wouldn't necessarily mean that fundamental particles act like waves, right,

792
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 1: that's right. But you know there's a lesson there, Like

793
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:56,360
Speaker 1: it says that the mathematics is correct, that the mathematics

794
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,839
Speaker 1: really does describe something the physical universe does, and so

795
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 1: that suggests that there might also be parts of the

796
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 1: universe that behave the same way, that this might be

797
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: sort of a universal phenomena in the wave equation. We

798
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:11,240
Speaker 1: see it everywhere, right, and so there is some reason

799
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 1: to think that if you found a mathematically valid description

800
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 1: of what the universe does, that maybe it also does

801
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:18,440
Speaker 1: at other places. Oh, I see, we're sort of at

802
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: the point where we have worked out the my Urano

803
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 1: equations or my Urona did and people like it, but

804
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 1: we haven't actually seen them even in a sort of

805
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: ocean wave level. I thought that we had because we

806
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 1: talked about sort of seeing holes in materials that act

807
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 1: like my Orona particles. So there's been a controversy because

808
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:39,439
Speaker 1: there's a group in eighteen that claimed to have seen

809
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 1: my Irna fermions in matter. They created these nano wires

810
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:47,479
Speaker 1: that were like a hundred nanometers wide and one micrometer long.

811
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 1: They put them at a very very cold temperatures and

812
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 1: very strong magnetic fields actually made them into a topological

813
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 1: superconductor that we talked about on the podcast recently, And

814
00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 1: they claimed in that these were Myrona fermions, that they

815
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 1: had arranged the electrons in this fancy way, that they

816
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 1: followed the rules of myron Its equation. Then people couldn't

817
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 1: reproduce their results. Then people dug into the details of

818
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 1: their paper and found some mistakes, so they actually had

819
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 1: to retract this paper and this claim that they remiron

820
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 1: A fermions. Wow, it seems like there's a lot of

821
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 1: ever going into confirming this theory, Like is this theory

822
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 1: that interesting or beautiful or like we've only ever found

823
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 1: two theories that describe maybe things at the fundamental level,

824
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 1: it's not easy to bring quantum mechanics and relativity together.

825
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 1: They're sort of famously difficult to get to play together

826
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 1: in the same field. It's not something we've achieved in general,

827
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 1: like general relativity and quantum mechanics just do not cooperate.

828
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: This special case of quantum mechanics and special relativity is

829
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 1: easier task, but still difficult. So the fact that there

830
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 1: are two solutions to it is really intriguing makes people

831
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:55,320
Speaker 1: really want to dig into it. There are also possible applications.

832
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 1: If you could develop myron a fermions in sort of

833
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 1: solid state physics, and these like excitation of electrons their

834
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 1: applications to quantum computing. They can make quantum computing much

835
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 1: much more powerful and much more robust to errors. Oh

836
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 1: why is that because they're they're bigger. Has to do

837
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 1: with building a very different kind of quantum computer than

838
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 1: the one we're used to thinking about. Normal quantum computers

839
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:21,359
Speaker 1: are like individual ions in a certain quantum state. Maybe

840
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,239
Speaker 1: it's been up, maybe it's been down, And the power

841
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 1: of the quantum computer comes from not knowing exactly. And

842
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 1: it's key that for those cubits, those quantum bits that

843
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:32,319
Speaker 1: they stay isolated that they don't get like bothered by

844
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 1: the environment, because then they decohere and they lose all

845
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 1: of their quantum fuzziness. They're like forced to choose already

846
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:40,880
Speaker 1: spin up, already has been down. That's the typical quantum

847
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: computer that we've been talking about. But there's a new

848
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 1: idea for a quantum computer called a topological quantum computer,

849
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:49,839
Speaker 1: where the information isn't stored in the state of an

850
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 1: individual particle, but rather in the relationships between particles. Like

851
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 1: I have these two particles over here and they're sort

852
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: of entangled with each other, and myrono fermions can do

853
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,240
Speaker 1: that because myrona fermions don't come from an individual particle.

854
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 1: They come from like the connection of two electrons into

855
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 1: this sort of emergent state of a myrona particle. And

856
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 1: if you put them under these very special conditions, then

857
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 1: it's much easier for those particles to retain that quantum

858
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 1: information because the information is instored in like the details

859
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 1: of where the electron is, but how these two electrons

860
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:23,399
Speaker 1: are sort of connected to each other, so they're sort

861
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:25,760
Speaker 1: of protected by some of the symmetries of the myrona

862
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 1: behavior from decohering. Yeah, and that's good for like error protection, right,

863
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 1: Like if you have a quantum computer that uses these things,

864
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 1: because the cupids are tied together, they they're less likely

865
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 1: to get kind of a destroyed exactly. And that's the

866
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:43,040
Speaker 1: problem with comin and computing is that it's very hard

867
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 1: to keep your quantum bits isolated from the environment. But

868
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:49,959
Speaker 1: a topological quantum computer sort of doesn't care as much

869
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 1: if it gets bothered by the environment because the interesting parts,

870
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 1: the parts that you care about, aren't in the details

871
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,640
Speaker 1: of where the particles are, but how those particles are

872
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 1: related to each other. So connected to this idea of topology,

873
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 1: you know, there's this famous example, like a topologist says that,

874
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 1: like a coffee cup is the same thing as a donut,

875
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 1: because fundamentally they're the same shape. They both have like

876
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:13,919
Speaker 1: one hole in them. There's this property of having one

877
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 1: hole which doesn't change as you like slowly deform a

878
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:19,760
Speaker 1: coffee cup into a donut or back. I mean, obviously

879
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 1: there are different things. You wouldn't want to dunk your

880
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 1: coffee cup in your coffee cup, but topologically those are similar.

881
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: You don't want to know your own a lot tap

882
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 1: and The idea is that a topological quantum computer the

883
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 1: information and it is invariant to the kind of transformations

884
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 1: that the universe typically applies to quantum computers, which is

885
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 1: that it pokes them, it bumps them, it it's hard

886
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 1: to keep them separate. So the information there is sort

887
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 1: of invariant to the kinds of things that the universe

888
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 1: typically does. Two objects, and so it's easier to keep

889
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,880
Speaker 1: the information preserved and to not have a deco here.

890
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 1: And that's the kind of thing you can do with

891
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 1: myron affermions if you can build them, but nobody's successfully

892
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 1: done it so far. Yeah, speaking of cart and physics

893
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 1: actually made a video about to his I don't know

894
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 1: if you know that, like seven years ago, about this

895
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 1: idea of using my uranna particles and quantum not to

896
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,879
Speaker 1: like do error protection and quantum computers. Oh very cool. Well,

897
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 1: I know that this big group of cal Tech that

898
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:15,920
Speaker 1: are experts in this, John Preskill and Jason Alca, they

899
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 1: work on this kind of stuff. It's mind boggling and amazing. Yeah, yeah,

900
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 1: I know. I work with them to make the videos.

901
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:22,879
Speaker 1: So if you're interested, you can on YouTube. You can

902
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 1: search for quantum knots and maybe also PhD comics and

903
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 1: you'll see the video that might help you. Yeah, awesome,

904
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,320
Speaker 1: because a lot of this stuff is very tricky to visualize,

905
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 1: and so I'm sure you're awesome. Cartoons would be helpful

906
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 1: to listeners, So go check that out if you want

907
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 1: a better visual for what's going on. But I guess

908
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:40,879
Speaker 1: the main point is that, you know, we have these

909
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 1: equations in my Uranna, equations that also maybe potentially describe particles,

910
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:48,320
Speaker 1: and they might describe from the mental particles like the

911
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 1: neutrino or dark matter, and they might describe things that

912
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 1: we can use pretty usefully for quantum computers exactly. And

913
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 1: it's a sort of fun question to explore, Like the

914
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:02,320
Speaker 1: math says that this can exist, so does it exist?

915
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 1: And some physicists are totally convinced. Professor Sarma from University

916
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 1: of Maryland. As his quote in one article I read,

917
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 1: he says, I guarantee you the myrona will be seen

918
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:15,800
Speaker 1: because the theory is pristine. This is an engineering problem,

919
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 1: this is not a physics problem. That's a direct quote.

920
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:21,919
Speaker 1: So wait, are you saying, Daniel, that physicists are really

921
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:25,319
Speaker 1: just here to confirm the math for mathematicians. Are you

922
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:27,840
Speaker 1: saying mathematicians are really at the top here. You know,

923
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 1: mathematicians explore universes that might not exist. Also, they don't

924
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 1: have to follow the rules of quantum mechanics and special relativity.

925
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:38,360
Speaker 1: But mathematics that follows the rules of the universe. You know,

926
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 1: that's likely to be physics. Yeah, I feel like you're

927
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 1: saying that the physics are religious. The middleman between mathematicians

928
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 1: and engineers exactly, as long as we get our cut,

929
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:52,719
Speaker 1: we're happy to be the middleman put on top. Well,

930
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 1: maybe that explains what happened to myrona right, Maybe the

931
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:58,280
Speaker 1: mathematicians and the engineers got together to cut out the middleman.

932
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 1: Oh man, don't dun't done the plot? Thinkins It was

933
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 1: his closest collaborator, the engineer. You got to watch out

934
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:09,799
Speaker 1: for those engineers. Yeah, they'll stab you in the back.

935
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 1: But it's interesting to think that, you know, how we

936
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 1: um this process of discovering how the universe works. You know,

937
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 1: it's a sort of a combination of poking around but

938
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:23,520
Speaker 1: also kind of thinking about these equations and seeing what's

939
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 1: possible from a mathematical sense, because sometimes that means that

940
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 1: it is true Yeah, we can do exploration in different ways.

941
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:31,880
Speaker 1: We can go out and see what the universe is

942
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 1: actually doing, and you can follow the breadcrumbs of the

943
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:37,320
Speaker 1: mathematics to think what else the universe might be doing.

944
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 1: And sometimes that's right. Often that's right, you know. The

945
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 1: Higgs Boson is another great example. The mathematics says this

946
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:45,840
Speaker 1: is the simplest way for particles to get mass, and

947
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:47,919
Speaker 1: then we went out and found it. So there really

948
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 1: are two different arms of exploration that are working hand

949
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 1: in hand. Well, we hope you enjoyed that and then

950
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:55,239
Speaker 1: made you think a little bit about what we know

951
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:57,239
Speaker 1: and don't know about the universe. It seems like maybe

952
00:51:57,320 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 1: we don't know how all of the quantum field in

953
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 1: the univers could work. And thanks for joining us. See

954
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 1: you next time. Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel

955
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 1: and Jorge Explain the Universe is a production of I

956
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:19,319
Speaker 1: Heart Radio or more podcast For my heart Radio, visit

957
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:22,880
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

958
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.