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Speaker 1: The reality is we need more men to step up,

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Speaker 1: and if we want better men, we have to be

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Speaker 1: better men. But there's just no getting around it. Men

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Speaker 1: of my generation are not paying it back, both with

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Speaker 1: supportive policies that put more money back in the pockets

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Speaker 1: of young people. And two, I think the ultimate expression

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Speaker 1: of masculinity you take care of yourself, you get strong,

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Speaker 1: you get economically viable, you take care of your family,

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Speaker 1: you take care of your community. But the ultimate expression

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Speaker 1: of masculinity is to take an interest in the life

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Speaker 1: of a child that is in yours. And there's not

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Speaker 1: enough of that type of masculinity in our nation right now.

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Speaker 2: Scott Galloway, the uber popular podcaster, professor, and best selling author,

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Speaker 2: has emerged as a thought leader on all things boys,

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Speaker 2: men and masculinity. He's got a new book out. It's

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Speaker 2: called Notes on Being a Man, and he tells the

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Speaker 2: story of growing up and becoming the Scott we know today.

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Speaker 2: He also shares some advice to young men who may

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Speaker 2: feel lost, lonely and misunderstood. Well, let's talk about your book,

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Speaker 2: because you're probably sick of it at this point.

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Speaker 1: But oh no, I never tired of speaking about me.

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Speaker 1: Ab So good at this.

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Speaker 2: Well, good because you're here to do more of that. Scott,

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Speaker 2: This issue, I know has been on your mind for

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Speaker 2: a while now You've written a book about it, Notes

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Speaker 2: on Being a Man, And I'm curious how this started

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Speaker 2: to percolate in that brain of yours.

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Speaker 1: I think it was just the data, you know. Actually,

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Speaker 1: the moment it started was back in I think twenty twenty.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you know the name Alex Kerns,

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Speaker 1: but there was this nineteen year old sophomore I think

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Speaker 1: at the University of Kansas or Kentucky, and he was

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Speaker 1: trading options on Robin Hood and he got a series

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Speaker 1: of Aaron messages saying he owed sixty thousand dollars and

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Speaker 1: it ended up they were wrong, so furiously emailing customer

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Speaker 1: service couldn't get a response back and decided basically decided

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Speaker 1: to end his life. And the note he left was

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Speaker 1: didn't want to saddle my family with this kind of money.

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Speaker 2: I remember this story.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very rattling, and I kind of went down

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Speaker 1: a rabbit hole. I reached out to the family.

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Speaker 2: This was like an all American kid, right.

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Speaker 1: No sinamental illness.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember this.

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Speaker 1: You see this kid and if you have boys, you

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Speaker 1: just see your son, right. And I started looking at

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Speaker 1: teen suicide and if you go into a Morgan, there's

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Speaker 1: five young people who died by suicide, four men, and

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Speaker 1: the stats just get crazier from there. Young men are

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Speaker 1: three times as likely to be homeless, three times is

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Speaker 1: likely to be addicted, twelve times likely to be incarcerated,

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Speaker 1: and there's just a lack of empathy for them, which

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Speaker 1: is understandable because of the disproportionate, unfair advantage that I received.

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Speaker 1: You know, the best decision I ever made was being

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Speaker 1: born in the sixties a white, heterosexual male. And if

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Speaker 1: you look at what happened from nineteen forty five to

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Speaker 1: two thousand, America, with five percent of the world's population,

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Speaker 1: registered thirty three percent of the world's economic growth. So

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Speaker 1: you take six times the disproportionate accretion of wealth through

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Speaker 1: a small number of people Americans, and then you further

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Speaker 1: cram it into the one third that are white male,

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Speaker 1: a heterosexual. I just had unfair advantage. And because I

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Speaker 1: had unfair advantage, what I find is there's a lack

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Speaker 1: of empathy for young people who don't have the same

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Speaker 1: advantage as I had.

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Speaker 2: So they're basically being blamed for the sense of their fathers.

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Speaker 1: People look at me and they're angry, understandably, and they

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Speaker 1: hold a nineteen year old accountable who does not have

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Speaker 1: the same advantage as I did. It was forty sixty

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Speaker 1: female to male college admittance. This year it's going to

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Speaker 1: be two to one female to male college graduation rates.

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Speaker 1: More single women owned homes in the US and single

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Speaker 1: men in urban areas. Young women are now making more

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Speaker 1: money than ment and by the way, this is a

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Speaker 1: collective victory. But when we saw it was forty six

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Speaker 1: women to men in college, we said, and women, by

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Speaker 1: the way, we're on the rise. We decided, if college

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Speaker 1: is the upward lubricant of a society, we need to

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Speaker 1: do something about this. And they weigh in with Title nine,

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Speaker 1: which was the right move. Now that it's worse than that,

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Speaker 1: skewed the other way and men are headed in the

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Speaker 1: wrong direction. There's no discussion of anything resembling some sort

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Speaker 1: of affirmative action for men. And by the way, I

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Speaker 1: think that's probably the right decision. I think we need

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Speaker 1: programs to help all young people, because I think it

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Speaker 1: would just get too politicized. But there's a general feeling

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Speaker 1: that young men don't have problems, that they are the problem.

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Speaker 1: And again, I think men my age have a debt.

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Speaker 1: I think we have an obligation to advocate for policies

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Speaker 1: that start putting more money back in the pockets of

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Speaker 1: young people. Katie, the average person our age is seventy

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Speaker 1: two percent wealthier now than they were forty years ago.

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Speaker 1: The average person their age under the age of forty

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Speaker 1: is twenty four percent less wealthy. So should young men

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Speaker 1: be paying the price of my advantage? The numbers are

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Speaker 1: stark obvious. If there was any group in America killing

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Speaker 1: themselves at four times the rate of the control group,

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Speaker 1: we'd weigh in with programs walk down the halls of NYU,

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Speaker 1: go girl, women in consulting, Black women in investment banking,

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Speaker 1: women supports groups, find me a poster anywhere. It's a

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Speaker 1: support group for men, and yet they're the ones that

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Speaker 1: are struggling, hands down the most.

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Speaker 2: At the same time, you know, you mentioned all the

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Speaker 2: strides that women have made, Scott, but then you look

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Speaker 2: at like some of the still pathetic numbers, like the

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Speaker 2: number of female CEOs for example, right, and the wealth

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Speaker 2: gap between men and women that still exists. So sometimes

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Speaker 2: it sounds like you're suggesting we've already reached parody and

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Speaker 2: then some. But would you concede that there are many

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Speaker 2: areas in American life where there is not gender equality,

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Speaker 2: and we still have miles to go before we sleep,

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Speaker 2: so to speak.

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Speaker 1: So what I would argue is empathies not as zero

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Speaker 1: sum game, and that is civil rights didn't hurt white people.

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Speaker 1: Gay marriage is not hurt heteronormative marriage, and we can

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Speaker 1: still acknowledge the huge obstacles the non whites and women

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Speaker 1: still face, but there's some nuance. So for example, when

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Speaker 1: women decide to leverage their overaries and have kids, they

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Speaker 1: go to seventy seven cents on the dollar. We still

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Speaker 1: have not figured out a way from women to maintain

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Speaker 1: the professional trajectory. Why having children. Were the only country

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Speaker 1: in the G seven that doesn't have universal childcare until

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Speaker 1: two years ago. I think there were more CEOs named

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Speaker 1: Bob than female CEOs in the Fortune five hundred. So,

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Speaker 1: by the way, it's parents fault for not naming their

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Speaker 1: daughters Bob.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if it's Bob. I thought it was Bill,

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Speaker 2: or I can't remember something like that.

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Speaker 1: So I don't think there's any denying that women still

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Speaker 1: have real issues. I talk a lot about big tech,

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Speaker 1: big tech praise on the insecurities of teenage girls, and

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Speaker 1: you can directly correlate self harm from when social wed on.

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Speaker 2: Mobile, right. I mean, you look at Jonathan height, and

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Speaker 2: I know these statistics are terrible for boys and men,

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Speaker 2: but if you look at the anxious generation, you see

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Speaker 2: preteen girls have their suicide rate has just jumped. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So it's interesting though, just as many women attempt suicide

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Speaker 1: as men. It's just that men are quote unquote better

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Speaker 1: at it because the more comfortable gunplay. Anyway, I want

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Speaker 1: to acknowledge Hispanics and Black families have average net worth

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Speaker 1: of twenty thousand, white families one hundred and sixty thousand,

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Speaker 1: So I think it's pretty easy to acknowledge that they're

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Speaker 1: still in apartheid and economic apartheid in the US when

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Speaker 1: you normalize it for education, it's even so that kind

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Speaker 1: of takes us to solutions, and that is the majority

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Speaker 1: of the solutions I see do not target men exclusively.

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Speaker 1: I think it's too political. I don't think we'll make progress.

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Speaker 1: I think there's an understandable gag reflex from women and progressives.

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Speaker 1: The programs I'm mostly suggesting that some are specific to

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Speaker 1: young boys, but the majority of programs I would suggest

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Speaker 1: that most people can't argue with is that my generation

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Speaker 1: has taken their credit card and leveraged it for our prosperity.

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Speaker 1: And when you have young people can't afford a home,

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Speaker 1: they can't afford education, and they have the most godlike

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Speaker 1: technology that is linked to forty percent of the value

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Speaker 1: that SMPS companies who have a profit incentive of linked

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Speaker 1: shaholder value with polarization, division and sequestration. I just don't

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Speaker 1: think there's any arguing that young people are struggling, and

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Speaker 1: that that struggle among young people seems to be disproportionately

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Speaker 1: impacting young men, which in no way takes away from

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Speaker 1: the urgency and challenges. I was raised by a single

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Speaker 1: immigrant mother who lived and died a secretary. My mom

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Speaker 1: and I speak openly about this. Terminated at pregnancy at

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Speaker 1: the age of forty seven when I was seventeen. Had

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Speaker 1: she not had access to family planning, I couldn't have

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Speaker 1: gone to college. I would have stay at home and

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Speaker 1: gone to work. So the fact that we are now

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Speaker 1: moving backwards around some components of women's rights to me

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Speaker 1: is unthinkable, and so I also feel a real debt

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Speaker 1: to be involved in an advocate for bodily autonomy because

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons I'm here is I got to

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Speaker 1: go to UCLA, which inspired this upward spiral of prosperity.

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Speaker 1: And it's a little bit uncomfortable and awkward to talk about.

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Speaker 1: But if I'd been a seventeen year old only child,

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Speaker 1: the son of a woman who'd had to carry a

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Speaker 1: child to term. This was nineteen eighty three, that wasn't

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Speaker 1: fucking Google. My mom wasn't going to get six months off.

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Speaker 1: She was a secretary. I couldn't have gone to college.

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Speaker 1: So I'd like to think that this isn't men versus women.

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Speaker 1: This is what i'd call liberal versus illiberal thought. This

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Speaker 1: is empathy and recognizing that we can chew gum and walk.

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Speaker 2: At the same time, I kept thinking of the phrase

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Speaker 2: zero sum game, you know, when I was reading this,

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Speaker 2: because it does seem as, if inevitably, particularly in our

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Speaker 2: current culture, one group is pitted against another group, and

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Speaker 2: so in this case, it's men against women. And as

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Speaker 2: a producer at sixty Minutes told me my first day

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Speaker 2: on the job, there, someone else's success diminishes you, someone

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Speaker 2: else's failure enhances you. And I was like, that is

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Speaker 2: a really fucked up philosophy. And I think your point

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Speaker 2: is if men do better, women don't have to do worse.

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Speaker 1: Women in our country aren't going to continue to flourish

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Speaker 1: if men are flailing. And what I would argue is

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Speaker 1: you said something really powerful men versus women. The genders

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Speaker 1: have done a great job of convincing themselves. It's the

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Speaker 1: other gender's fault. There's an understandable gagery. Fucks it says Scott,

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Speaker 1: where were you when women were really struggling? And I

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Speaker 1: would argue, when we had Title nine that tried to

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Speaker 1: level up women in college, ninety seven percent of our

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Speaker 1: elected officials were men. So clearly some men are on

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Speaker 1: the side of a forward, leading society. I don't see

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Speaker 1: it as men versus women. I see it as empathy

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Speaker 1: versus non empathy, or what I'll call liberal progressive thought,

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Speaker 1: because there are men who are very much on the

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Speaker 1: side of advancing the rights of women, and there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of women. You know who my biggest supporters

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Speaker 1: are of this work. Mothers, the emails, young men come

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Speaker 1: up to me, and they appreciate the advocacy for young men,

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Speaker 1: But hands down, the cohort that has advanced as dialogue

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Speaker 1: and stop people from calling me Andrew Tate with an

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Speaker 1: MBA is mothers and the email and the kind of

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Speaker 1: narrative goes like this, I have three kids, two daughters,

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Speaker 1: one son, one daughter a pen one daughter in Pierre

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Speaker 1: in Chicago, and my son is in the basement vaping

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Speaker 1: and playing video games. It's mothers that really see what's

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Speaker 1: going on here. So I think that the greatest alliance

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Speaker 1: in history is not NATO. It's not between modern Republicans

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Speaker 1: and mid The greatest alliance in history has between men

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Speaker 1: and women. And I think there's seven and a half

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Speaker 1: billion points of evidence that it's a great alliance. So

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Speaker 1: what do we need. We need young men to celebrate

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Speaker 1: the progress of their sisters and their mothers, but we

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Speaker 1: also need women to realize the struggles facing young men

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Speaker 1: are real.

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Speaker 2: Why is that? Why is her son in the basement

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Speaker 2: vaping and playing video games and her other children are

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Speaker 2: successful going about their lives.

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Speaker 1: It's a confluence of a bunch of things. So first,

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Speaker 1: let's just start with biology. A boy's prefrontal cortex is

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Speaker 1: literally eighteen months behind a girls. This is the gas on,

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Speaker 1: gas off executive function. Stop playing video games and start studying.

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Speaker 1: So two seniors in high school applying to college, a

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Speaker 1: boy and a girl. The girls basically competing against a

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Speaker 1: sixteen year old girl. Seven to ten high school valedictorians

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Speaker 1: are girls. What you have is once we level the

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Speaker 1: playing field, girls blue by boys, and the educational system,

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Speaker 1: I would argue, is biased against boys. Think about the

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Speaker 1: behaviors we encourage in school. Sit still, be a pleased,

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Speaker 1: or raise your hand, be organized. You just described a girl.

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Speaker 1: When you have single sex schools, boys end up with

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Speaker 1: double amount of recess time. If a boy is twice

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Speaker 1: as likely to be suspended for the exact same behavior,

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Speaker 1: is a girl five times is likely if it's a

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Speaker 1: black boy. Seventy to eighty percent of K through twelve

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Speaker 1: teachers are women, And who is a woman more likely

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Speaker 1: to advocate for someone who reminds her of herself or

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Speaker 1: that rumbunctious boy. Very few men, I.

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Speaker 2: Know you're going to say, very few men are teachers

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Speaker 2: or teachers. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And the other thing we have to acknowledge is that

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Speaker 1: if you look at the single point of failure, if

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Speaker 1: you have to point to one thing, the single point

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Speaker 1: of failure when a boy comes off the tracks and

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Speaker 1: has problems the rest of his life, it's when he

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Speaker 1: loses a male role model through death, divorce, or abandonment.

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Speaker 1: And what's interesting is girls, when they lose their dad,

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Speaker 1: they have the same outcomes. They might be a little

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Speaker 1: bit more promiscuous because they're looking for male attention in

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Speaker 1: the wrong places, but the same levels of college attendance,

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Speaker 1: same income. They're fine.

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Speaker 2: It's fine. When my husband died, my girls were six

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Speaker 2: and two, and I remember saying, I'm so glad that

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Speaker 2: I don't have a son, because I thought that they

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Speaker 2: would thrive or do much better with a single mom

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Speaker 2: than a boy. Would you know, I feel the same

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Speaker 2: way if like a mom dies and they have daughters

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Speaker 2: and it's just so so hard to not have that.

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Speaker 2: I don't know why, I just thought of that.

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Speaker 1: Your instincts are correct. When a boy loses a male

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Speaker 1: role model, at that moment, he becomes more likely to

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Speaker 1: be incarcerated and graduate from college. So what the research

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Speaker 1: shows is the following is that while boys are physically stronger,

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Speaker 1: they're emotionally, neurologically, and mentally much weaker than girls. And

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Speaker 1: we don't know if it's because women have had throughout

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Speaker 1: the ages, had to menstruate or give birth, that they're

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Speaker 1: just quite frankly tougher. But I'll give you a really

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Speaker 1: rattling statistic. Two fifteen year old sexually molested a boy

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Speaker 1: and a g Neither crime is less or more handis

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Speaker 1: than the other. The boy who sexually molested is ten

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Speaker 1: times more likely to kill himself later than life than

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Speaker 1: the girl. Boys are weaker, and so there needs to

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Speaker 1: be a societal zeitgeist er norm that when a boy

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Speaker 1: loses a male role model, we move to put men

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Speaker 1: in his life. And even saying that boys needed men

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Speaker 1: in their lives evoked this gag reflex a few years ago.

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Speaker 1: What you're saying women can't raise boys. I was raised

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Speaker 1: by a single immigrant mother who lived and died a

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Speaker 1: secretary a lot of my life. But absolutely boys, boys

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Speaker 1: need men.

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Speaker 2: Who did you have as a role model, given that

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Speaker 2: you had an absentee father? Right? Did he leave you guys?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, my dad's been married and divorced four times. You

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Speaker 1: started a third marriage when he was married to my mom.

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Speaker 1: Is second marriage? Not a bad man, but not an

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Speaker 1: especially good Man and moved to Ohio. So my dad

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Speaker 1: wasn't very involved in my life.

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Speaker 2: So who did you look to as a role model.

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Speaker 1: I had coaches, so it was played sports. My mom

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Speaker 1: was very good about getting men involved in my life.

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Speaker 1: Two of my mom's boyfriends stayed involved in my life

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Speaker 1: even after they broke up. I had a guy down

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Speaker 1: the hallway show up one day and say do you

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Speaker 1: want to come horseback riding with me and my girlfriend?

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Speaker 1: And he used to take me on on weekends. When

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Speaker 1: I was thirteen, I walked into a stockbroker which with

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Speaker 1: two hundred dollars that I got as a gift, and

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Speaker 1: I met a stockbroker named cy Sero, and we bought

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Speaker 1: thirteen shares of Columbia Pictures and he gave me my

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Speaker 1: first lesson in stocks. And every day for the next

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Speaker 1: three years at Emerson Junior High used to go to

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Speaker 1: the phone booth put in two dimes and I call

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Speaker 1: him and he talked to me about the markets, like

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Speaker 1: the stock is up today, Close encounters are the third

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Speaker 1: kind is a big hit And to this day Sia

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Speaker 1: is now eighty three. We text each other. So I

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Speaker 1: was really fortunate. Men filled in the void, but men

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Speaker 1: have to step up and they're not.

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Speaker 2: Why aren't they? Why aren't men helping each other more?

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Speaker 2: I mean, you talk about friends, you talk about loneliness

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Speaker 2: and social isolation. You know, just anecdotally for me, women

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Speaker 2: are much better about building a community supporting each other.

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Speaker 2: Is it just the way that men are conditioned and

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Speaker 2: they're not comfortable forging those kinds of bonds with other men.

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Speaker 1: I have some thesies, but I don't have data on it.

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Speaker 1: But the date I do have as a following is

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Speaker 1: that in New York there are three times as many

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Speaker 1: women applying to be big sisters as are men applying

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Speaker 1: to be big brothers. I know, and I think some

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Speaker 1: of it is the following. I think there's a taboo

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Speaker 1: and a suspicion of men who want to be involved

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Speaker 1: in a boy's life. I think because of the Catholic

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Speaker 1: Church and Michael Jackson. If a single guy in is

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Speaker 1: thirty who has fraternal and paternal love to give and

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Speaker 1: thinks I could really help a fourteen or a fifteen

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Speaker 1: year old boy, I think he's worried he's going to

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Speaker 1: be suspected of being a pedophile. And also there's a

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Speaker 1: certain self consciousness that if I'm not a CEO, or

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Speaker 1: don't have a degree in adolescent psychiatry, or I don't

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Speaker 1: have my own kids, I'm not qualified. And I can

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Speaker 1: tell you of someone who does coach young men. It

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Speaker 1: is so incredibly easy to add value. They make such

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Speaker 1: bad decisions. Just asking a series of questions can help

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Speaker 1: them avoid so many bad decisions, and just showing up

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Speaker 1: and being present in their life adds huge values. So

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Speaker 1: the reality is we need more men to step up,

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Speaker 1: and if we want better men, we have to be

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Speaker 1: better men. But there's just no getting around it. Men

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Speaker 1: of my generation are not paying it back, both with

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Speaker 1: supportive policies that put more money back in the pockets

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Speaker 1: of young people. I think the ultimate expression of masculinity

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Speaker 1: you take care of yourself, you get strong, you get

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Speaker 1: economically viable, you take care of your family, you take

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Speaker 1: care of your community. But the ultimate expression of masculinity

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Speaker 1: is to take an interest in the life of a

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Speaker 1: child that is in yours. And there's not enough of

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Speaker 1: that type of masculinity in our nation right now. It

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Speaker 1: should be common expected societal norms that the moment a

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Speaker 1: boy does not have males in his life, that we

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Speaker 1: move in and we figure out a way to get

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Speaker 1: him male mentorship.

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Speaker 2: How do you actually make that happen realistically? You know

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Speaker 2: it sounds great, it sounds important and definitely worthwhile, but

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Speaker 2: you know, how do you do that with policies, with

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Speaker 2: changing societal attitudes? How does that happen?

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Speaker 1: Well? The answers, yes, all above, But there are common

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Speaker 1: sense solutions to all this. I think we should read

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Speaker 1: shirt boys in kindergarten. We should start boys at six,

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Speaker 1: girls at five. Boys are just biologically and mentally behind girls.

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Speaker 1: You have kids, when my fifteen year old has a

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Speaker 1: party and there's boys and girls. The boys are nice,

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Speaker 1: but they're dopes. They don't look in the eye. They're

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Speaker 1: just dopes. Some of the girls there could be the

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Speaker 1: junior senator from Pennsylvania. I mean, it's just so obvious.

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Speaker 1: The girls are just way ahead of the boys in

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Speaker 1: K through twelve. Encourage more men, more after school programs,

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Speaker 1: more sponsorships for sports. I think actually religious institutions can

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Speaker 1: play a big role in this. I think any freshman

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Speaker 1: class at a college that isn't growing its freshman class

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Speaker 1: size fast than population, that has an endowment over a

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Speaker 1: billion dollars should lose its tax free status because it's

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Speaker 1: decided it's no longer a public servant. It's a hedge

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Speaker 1: fund offering classes. Twenty percent of their certificate should be

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Speaker 1: non traditional vocational everything from nursing to specialty construction. I

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Speaker 1: think mandatory national service would be a huge benefit for

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Speaker 1: all Americans, but especially men. Tax policies that again stop

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Speaker 1: sucking so much money from young to old, a commitment

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Speaker 1: to build eight million houses in the next ten years,

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Speaker 1: and eligibility and low interest rate loans for young people.

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Speaker 1: In some the incumbents, specifically older people and politicians who

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Speaker 1: have benefited from the sucking sound of young capital to

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Speaker 1: old people. We just need to put more money back

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Speaker 1: in their pockets right as soon as you graduate from

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Speaker 1: UVA or UCLA. We like the admissions rates of Ganda.

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Speaker 1: When I got into UCLA, the admissions rate of seventy

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Speaker 1: four percent, it's now nine percent.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I know, I could never get into UVA today, So.

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Speaker 1: I'm part of the problem. I'm an educator. What do

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Speaker 1: you think the faculty does when the dean announces we've

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Speaker 1: rejected ninety one percent of the applicants, What do you

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Speaker 1: think the faculty does? Eight cheery applod which is tantamount,

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Speaker 1: in my mind to a homeless shelter bragging that he

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Speaker 1: or she turned away nine in ten people last night.

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Speaker 1: We're public servants, We're not Chanelle Backs. So more freshman seats,

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Speaker 1: more vocational programming, tax policy, a truly progressive tax policy

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Speaker 1: that puts money in people's hands, mandatory national service, low

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Speaker 1: cost housing. It's pretty simple. Make it such that young

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Speaker 1: people can afford a home, go to school, and have

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Speaker 1: the economic viability to start families. Forty years ago, sixty

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Speaker 1: percent of thirty year olds had a child, and now

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Speaker 1: it's twenty seven percent. It's because the young people don't

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Speaker 1: want families. No, they can't afford.

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Speaker 2: Them, and in some cases they don't want to bring

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Speaker 2: a child into the world we're in right now. I've

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Speaker 2: heard that from plenty of my daughter's friends.

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Speaker 1: I think that, and I don't have research in that.

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Speaker 1: I think that. It's like when we say our kids

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Speaker 1: don't need college, it's usually because we don't think our

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Speaker 1: kid's going to get in. I think that's while papering

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Speaker 1: over the disappointment that they may not be able to

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Speaker 1: find and emotionally or economically viable mate.

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Speaker 2: WHI everyone, it's me Katie Couric. You know, if you've

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Speaker 2: been following me on social media, you know I love

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Speaker 2: to cook, or at least try, especially alongside some of

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Speaker 2: my favorite chefs and foodies like Benny Blanco, Jake Cohen,

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Speaker 2: Lighty Hoyke, Alison Roman, and Inegarten. So I started a

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Speaker 2: free newsletter called Good Taste to share recipes, tips and

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Speaker 2: kitchen mustaves. Just sign up at Katiecuric dot com slash

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Speaker 2: good Taste. That's k A t I E C O

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Speaker 2: U r I c dot com slash good Taste. I

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Speaker 2: promise your taste buds will be happy you did. I'm

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Speaker 2: listening to all these, you know, sort of your prescriptive

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Speaker 2: advice and thinking, Jesus, that's the exact opposite of what's

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Speaker 2: happening in our federal government and in our country's leadership.

434
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 2: I mean, you sound like Zoran kind of.

435
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not the comparison i'd want, but I see

436
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:08,200
Speaker 1: what you're saying. Well, okay, we can talk about zoron.

437
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 1: But I don't think ren freezers are going to bring

438
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 1: down rent. I think they're going to take them up.

439
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 1: And I don't think government sponsored grocery stores is the answer.

440
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,159
Speaker 1: But anyways, Yeah, his emphasis on affordability is absolutely the

441
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 1: right one. I think his message is the right one,

442
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:22,920
Speaker 1: and I also want to be I think Democrats could

443
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 1: take a lot away from what an excellent campaign is

444
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 1: are on. But I think there are common sense economic

445
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,959
Speaker 1: policies that would reduce the cost of education massively decrease

446
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:37,200
Speaker 1: the cost of housing. We've entered into this rejectionist luxury positioning.

447
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,159
Speaker 1: Dartmouth has an eight billion dollar endowment. They lay led

448
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,440
Speaker 1: an eleven hundred people, which is what a good Starbucks

449
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 1: serves in a weekend. They could have eleven thousand, Katie.

450
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 1: They're in the middle of goddamn nowhere. They could leverage

451
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 1: their faculty. They have about fourteen faculty for every one

452
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 1: person that actually teaches. They could open a satellite campus

453
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 1: in the South. We need to move back to our

454
00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 1: roots of loving unremarkable kids and leveling up all young people,

455
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 1: which I believe will disproportionately impact men. And here's the

456
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,160
Speaker 1: thing we don't like to talk about. Men mate socioeconomically

457
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 1: horizontally and down women horizontally and up. Seventy five percent

458
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 1: of women say economic viability is key to a mate.

459
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 1: It's only twenty five percent for women. Beyonce could work

460
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 1: at McDonald's and Mary jay Z the opposite is not true.

461
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,679
Speaker 1: So there are some knock on effects from women blowing

462
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 1: by young women blowing by men economically that we have

463
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,400
Speaker 1: to acknowledge, and that is women say that, how many

464
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 1: women do you meet say I can't find a dude. No,

465
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 1: they can find a dude, they just can't find a

466
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,640
Speaker 1: dude they want to mate with. And that's because young

467
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 1: men aren't nearly as economically viable as they used to be.

468
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 1: Many of the jobs that were on ramps to the

469
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,680
Speaker 1: middle class have been hollowed out. They aren't getting the

470
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 1: certification because they're not nearly as good at school, and

471
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 1: they're also, quite frankly, some of their behaviors pathologized. And

472
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:58,199
Speaker 1: that is just to be provocative here, we've pathologize men's

473
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 1: romantic and sexual interests. No guy wants to be that

474
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 1: guy who approaches a woman and it's not welcome, right.

475
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 1: No guy wants to be the creep. Yet eighty percent

476
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: of women say they expect men to initiate romantic contact.

477
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 1: So I think we need to stop pathologizing romantic interest

478
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 1: and celebrate it. What do I mean by that. I

479
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 1: didn't see my partner and think I'd like someday to

480
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,439
Speaker 1: get a better deal on life insurance. I looked at

481
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 1: her and thought I'd really like to have sex with her.

482
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,399
Speaker 1: And I don't think there's anything wrong with that, because

483
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 1: it should motivate a man, and it can to dress better,

484
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 1: to smell better, to have a plan, the seecret weapon

485
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:40,679
Speaker 1: of mating. Demonstrate a kindness, practice, demonstrate excellence, be funny,

486
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,120
Speaker 1: show resilience. I think these are wonderful things. And then

487
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 1: competing against that effort is what is increasingly lifelike porn.

488
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 1: So what we have is a series of generation of

489
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: men who don't feel like they need to take the

490
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,160
Speaker 1: risk to make friendships because they have read it in discord,

491
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 1: don't need to navigate the corporate bullshit of a corporation

492
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,919
Speaker 1: because they think they can make money trading stocks or

493
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 1: crypto on coinbase or Robinhood and Katie. Why would they

494
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 1: go through the effort, the expense, the trauma, the resilience,

495
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: the demonstration of skills, the demonstration of excellence, the demonstration

496
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 1: of kindness, to get a date, establish a relationship, persevere

497
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: through the much finer filter that women have because they

498
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 1: are choosier for good reasons, such as they can have

499
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 1: their own romantic relationship when they have near lifelike porn

500
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: at home. And the reality is we have the most talented,

501
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,719
Speaker 1: deepest pocketed companies in the world taking advantage of an

502
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: immature brain known as a young man, sequestering him from life,

503
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 1: not taking risks, trying to convince him that he can

504
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: have a risk free, low cost facsimile of life, and

505
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 1: he wakes up at thirty. Not all of them, but

506
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 1: many of them obese, anxious, and no relationships and none

507
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: of the skills he needs to operate across a variety

508
00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 1: of scenarios. We are evolving a new species of asocial,

509
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: asexual males. It's as if we've decided to plan our

510
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: own extinction such that we can keep the NASDAC high

511
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 1: with ten companies who are in the business of sequestering

512
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 1: and polarizing.

513
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 2: So what do you do about that those companies specifically,

514
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 2: there's nothing.

515
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 1: I'm a catastrophist, but I've learned. I want to talk

516
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: about what could go right. One no synthetic relationships for

517
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 1: people under the age of eighteen, age gate social media,

518
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: no phones in.

519
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 2: Schools, which is starting to happen, which is.

520
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 1: Hard to happen. Remove Section two thirty protection for algorithmically

521
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 1: elevated content. I'm not talking about censorship. But if you

522
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: put out videos on how to kill yourself, and then

523
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 1: because those videos seem to enrage people, you elevate them

524
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: beyond their organic reach, you're no longer an ascent platform.

525
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 1: You're a media company. And there's no reason that those

526
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,640
Speaker 1: media companies shouldn't be subject to the same scrutiny you're

527
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 1: held right now. If you were elevating content on your

528
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 1: podcast platform and they could tell it was resulting in

529
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 1: young girls self harming, you would be in a world

530
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: of trouble. But these multi trillion dollar companies are considered

531
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 1: Nason companies and they have absolutely no liability.

532
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 2: They're not considered publishers. They're considered basically the infrastructure, but

533
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 2: they don't control the stuff that's going through the pipes

534
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 2: and going out, which to me is always seemed insane.

535
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: Makes no sense at all, and some boring stuff antitrust.

536
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: I think they need to be broken up. But there

537
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 1: are common sense solutions. I mean, higher tax rates. Corporations

538
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 1: are paying the lowest tax rates since nineteen thirty nine.

539
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: But I'll just give you a couple of things. One,

540
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: it's not about tax rates, it's about tax enforcement. There's

541
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 1: seven hundred and fifty billion dollars a year that's uncollected

542
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 1: from the top one percent because the Republicans are smart.

543
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: The biggest tax cut ever is to neuter the irs

544
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 1: because they don't have the money to audit anybody. We

545
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: should have an alternative minimum tax, meaning if you make

546
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 1: a certain amount of money, you pay, say at least

547
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: forty percent, no matter what the deductions are. Because the

548
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: tax code over the last forty years has gone from

549
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 1: four hundred pages to four thousand, and quite frankly, those

550
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 1: incremental thirty six hundred pages are meant to screw the

551
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: middle class and make it SUTs of people like me

552
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: can start a company and have what's called twelve oh two.

553
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: The first ten million dollars of proceeds from a company

554
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: I start and sell is tax free. I mean, there's

555
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: just so many goodies in there for rich people. The

556
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: average tax rate of the twenty six wealthiest families in

557
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 1: America is six percent. And what's interesting is people say, well,

558
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,479
Speaker 1: the rich don't pay their taxes. The kind of Bernie

559
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warren side of the pile. That's actually not true either.

560
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,239
Speaker 1: The workhorses are the ones that get screwed the most. So,

561
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: say you live in New York and mom's a baller.

562
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 1: She makes two million dollars a year working at Scadden.

563
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 1: Dad is a chiropractor thriving practice makes six hundred thousand,

564
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 1: two point six million ballers. They have to live in

565
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: a city in a blue state. They're probably paying fifty

566
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 1: two or fifty three percent income tax. But say Dad's company.

567
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 1: Say he makes the jump to light speed and it

568
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 1: gets bought by private equity firm, and he gets shares

569
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: in that private equity firm, and it gets sold for

570
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: thirty million dollars, his tax rate plummets to the high teams.

571
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: So what we've decided is it sweat is more noble

572
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: than money. So the tax rate is progressive until he

573
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: gets about the ninety ninth percentile. But once you make

574
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: the jump to light speed, if you get the gold medal,

575
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: we decide to give you the bronze and the silver.

576
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: And also corporations are just not paying their fair share.

577
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: But it's more about loopholes than it is about tax rates.

578
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: We could fix all of these problems. And by the way,

579
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 1: through most of the twentieth century, the top tax rates

580
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: were sixty or seventy percent. Right, So the workhorses the

581
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: people making a lot of money in current income. I

582
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: would imagine you're in this category make an exceptional living.

583
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 1: But it's all W two reportable income.

584
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 2: I haven't made a salary in seven years, so.

585
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: Well there maybe so it's not impacting you. Yeah, but

586
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 1: I make my living. When I was making hundreds of

587
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 1: thousands of dollars in my thirties and forties, I was

588
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: paying forty something tax rate. Now that I made the

589
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: jump to light speed, yeah, very lucky. I've sold some companies.

590
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: I make the majority of my money now when investing

591
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: in companies and then selling stock. Living in Florida, my

592
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: tax rate is plummeted to the high teens. That makes

593
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: no sense. That's nothing but weaponization of the tax code

594
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: to create greater income inequality. And this results. If there's

595
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: one statistic, if you had to find ground zero, the

596
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 1: epicenter of the earthquake that's rocking our society, it's the following.

597
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 1: For the first time in our nation's history, a thirty

598
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,479
Speaker 1: year old man or woman isn't doing as well as

599
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 1: his or her parents were at thirty. That's never happened

600
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: in our society. Sixty percent of men under the age

601
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: of twenty five are either living at home or will

602
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: be living at home. And when you're a young man

603
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 1: or woman and you're not doing as well as your parents,

604
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: there's rage and shame across the entire household beause most

605
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: likely your roommates are reminding you every day that you're failing.

606
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 1: And then two hundred and ten times a day that

607
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 1: young person gets notified that they're failing with fae wealth porn,

608
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: basically convincing the media, basically saying you don't have a

609
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: hot boyfriend, and you're not on a golf stream, and

610
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 1: you're not seeing black coffee to visa, you have fucked up.

611
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: So what do you know. They're anxious, they're depressed, they

612
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: feel bad about themselves. They feel one in two people

613
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: our age feel good or very good about America. It's

614
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: one in ten young people. And it's because I keep

615
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 1: using their credit card right to buttress my lifestyle.

616
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 2: Let's talk about the three p's, because when it comes

617
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 2: to figuring out how we address all these issues that

618
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 2: you raise in the book. You say men should protect, provide,

619
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 2: and procreate. Tell me how you decided on these three descriptions.

620
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: Well, the most important thing is they all being with P.

621
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 2: You like alliteration, That was the key.

622
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, reproduction didn't work. Well, horning has sounded weird.

623
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 2: Well, I don't see where horny is protect, provide and procreating. Well,

624
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 2: I guess that's under Okay, got it.

625
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: It's that's trust me essential to it, and I'm open

626
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: to push back. I may not have this right. The

627
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 1: book initially started as me trying to do the algebra masculinity,

628
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: and my first chapter was on testosterone. I thought, I'm

629
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: not an innercrenologist. So the book is really about where

630
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 1: I got a right and where I got it wrong,

631
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: and quite frankly, more about my failures trying to be

632
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: a man and then trying to develop a code for

633
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: young men that they could lean on to help make

634
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 1: their decisions. Some people get their code from the religion,

635
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 1: from their work, from their family, from the military. I

636
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 1: think you can even get a code. My first code,

637
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 1: really on how to behave was I worked at Morgan

638
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: Stanley and I got a lot of kind of rules

639
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: from that about how you behave in a corporate setting.

640
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 2: But I imagine your mom gave you a code too.

641
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: You know what my mom gave me. My mom was

642
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: a great friend. I got that from her. But more

643
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 1: than anything, Katie, my mom every day explicitly, implicitly communicated

644
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: to me that I was wonderful. I was a tall

645
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 1: kid with bad skin, mediocre grades, totally unremarkable. But I

646
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: think as a parent, I think if you communicate every

647
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 1: day that your kid is wonderful, they can't help but

648
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 1: start to believe you. And I think that still rests

649
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: inside of me. But the three p's, I'm trying to

650
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,959
Speaker 1: think of a framework for masculinity to help serve as

651
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: a guide or a code for young men. The first

652
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 1: is provider. I think in a capitalist society, and I'm

653
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 1: not saying this is the way the world should be,

654
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 1: but I think it's the way the world is. I

655
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 1: think you got to be economically viable as a man,

656
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 1: and I think you should assume at the outset of

657
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:20,839
Speaker 1: your career that at some point you're going to need

658
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,439
Speaker 1: to take economic responsibility for your household. And by the way,

659
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: sometimes that means getting out of the way and being

660
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 1: more supportive of your partner.

661
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 2: I was going to ask you, what about if you

662
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,800
Speaker 2: marry a woman who, as you said, is a baller

663
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 2: and you're a middle school teacher, because you want more

664
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 2: men teaching.

665
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: Right when I was living in New York and twenty ten,

666
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 1: I was an academic making okay money, not great money.

667
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 1: My partner was working at Goldman Sacks. So I got

668
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: up with the kids. I was home for bath time.

669
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 1: And I'm not trying to be a hero here, but

670
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 1: that's being a man, that's recognizing that, that's taking economic

671
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,319
Speaker 1: responsibility for your household. But the reality is, even if

672
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 1: you were to have total equality of opportunit unity in

673
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 1: the professional world, more women are going to decide to

674
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 1: take a disproportionate amount of the responsibility for the kids.

675
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 1: They just are. And I don't think a bad place

676
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,359
Speaker 1: to start as a man is to assume I need

677
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: to get the certification, I need to get the skills.

678
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: I need to show the focus, the drive, the discipline

679
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: to be economically viable. Don't be the dude ordering a

680
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: bottle of grey Goose to two in the morning. Have

681
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 1: a plan. Showed discipline. The reason women like guys who

682
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 1: are in shape and muscular. Is not the muscles, it's

683
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 1: not the aesthetics. Is that it reflects he has discipline,

684
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 1: and he shows up and he knows how to commit

685
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 1: to something. And in a capitalist society, regardless of how

686
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 1: any subscriptions to the Atlantic or The New York Times

687
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: you have, you are going to as a man, be

688
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 1: disproportionally evaluated based on your economic viability. By the way,

689
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: women are unfairly disproportionally evaluated on their aesthetics. So we

690
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 1: both have biases against us. But I think it's a

691
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 1: good place to start as a man, to assume you're

692
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 1: going to need to take economic responsibility for your household

693
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: and be a provider. Second, the whole point of prosperity,

694
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: the whole shooting match, is not such you can buy shit.

695
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 1: It's such that you can immediately pivot to being a protector. Right.

696
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 1: The only times I've ever felt a sense of purpose

697
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 1: that I have meaning that I have a real sense

698
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 1: of peace, is when I'm at home, my kids are

699
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 1: safe and warm and asleep, my partner feels noticed and secure.

700
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 1: I can give some money away, i can protect them.

701
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 1: I'm strong, I'm prosperous, and that's given me the ability

702
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 1: to protect people. And one of the real shortcomings I

703
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 1: think of our leadership and who should be perceived as

704
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 1: role models for masculinity right now is they have entirely

705
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 1: skipped the masculine component of protection, and that is you

706
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: may not understand the transgender community. You may not agree

707
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: we need third bathrooms. You may not believe a transgender

708
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 1: woman should be able to compete in NC two A sports,

709
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,080
Speaker 1: But if you see a community being demonized, you're re

710
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:04,280
Speaker 1: flex muscle memory should be default to protection, full stop.

711
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 1: We have to train boys from an early age that

712
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: if you aspire to be masculine, it means being a protector.

713
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 1: What are the most masculine jobs fireman, cop, military, What

714
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 1: do they do at the end of the day. They protect.

715
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 1: We are bigger, we are stronger physically. Who breaks up

716
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 1: fights at bars? Big strong men? Who starts fights at bars?

717
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 1: Guys who are insecure and are not masculine. It also

718
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 1: goes beyond physicality. You hear people criticizing others behind their back,

719
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: your reflex reactions should be to protect them. You can

720
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: absorb blows because you're big and strong. You don't need

721
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,399
Speaker 1: if someone cuts you off in traffic, you don't need

722
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 1: to be like the douchebag I was when I was

723
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: a younger man and speed up and cut them off

724
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:50,800
Speaker 1: to restore balance to the universe.

725
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:52,399
Speaker 2: I sometimes do that.

726
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 1: Well, that's anti masculine behavior, Katie or these are all

727
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 1: my own feelings, and I know as well. With the

728
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: Delta one K customer, I.

729
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 2: Don't cut them off because that would be too scary

730
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 2: and I'm afraid of road rage. But I do like

731
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 2: flip them off, and I do sometimes like ride their

732
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,959
Speaker 2: bumper if they really make me that. Actually, more often

733
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 2: than not, if they're riding my bumper, I slow down

734
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 2: because it's so obnoxious. Is that masculine?

735
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: I'm guilty of all these things. Some people would say

736
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: we're just being assholes, but also the person at the

737
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 1: Delta counter checking you in is rude. I used to

738
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:28,399
Speaker 1: get back in their face, like, don't you know who

739
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 1: I am? And I don't think.

740
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 2: I don't do that.

741
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 1: I don't think you need to do that. And the

742
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 1: two people that will serve always serve as role models

743
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 1: for young men will be the President the United States

744
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: because he's the most powerful person in the world and

745
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 1: the richest man in the world. Because we're in a

746
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 1: capitalist economy.

747
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:45,359
Speaker 2: Oh great, Trump and Elon, Well, this.

748
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: Is where I'm going with this. All right, being sued

749
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 1: concurrently by two women for sol clust to your child

750
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:53,320
Speaker 1: because you haven't seen that child. That is anti masculine,

751
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 1: cutting off a to HIV positive mothers. There's nothing that

752
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: could be more anti masculine. Mocking people, mocking people less

753
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 1: powerful than you. I mean, there's a very basic thing here.

754
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 1: Punching down is about the least masculine thing you could

755
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 1: ever do. You're a protector, that's your job. You are

756
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,399
Speaker 1: physically stronger, and if you are smart enough to ever

757
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 1: register prosperity. The whole point of prosperity is such that

758
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 1: you can move to protection. And then the last thing

759
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 1: is procreation. We touched on this. I think that desire

760
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 1: to procreate is fire. It can be harmful if you

761
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 1: begin objectifying women, if you engage too much in porn,

762
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 1: if you see women as one dimensional. I think it's

763
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: reckless and I think it can be very damaging. But

764
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 1: if you use it as a means, let's go back

765
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 1: to coaching these young men, I say, what are your goals?

766
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 1: Let's reverse engineer, let's outline your goals. And let's reverse

767
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: engineer the activities to get to them. Usually, I want

768
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 1: to move out of my parents. That's using number one.

769
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:54,479
Speaker 1: Number two is I want to make some of aren't

770
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 1: making some money? And say we're able to get to

771
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 1: those two things what they do under their breath and

772
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 1: what they really want. So you really want a girlfriend?

773
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 1: And the first thing I asked them is I asked him,

774
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:06,840
Speaker 1: I say, would you have sex with you? The point

775
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 1: is do you smell nice? Do you make an effort

776
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 1: to look good? Are you in shape? Do you have

777
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 1: a kindness practice? Women are drawn to kindness. There's research on.

778
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 2: This kindness intelligence, which is also humor, because you have

779
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 2: to be smart to have a good sense of humor.

780
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 1: Well, you've forgot number one. You're going in reverse order.

781
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: Number three's kindness. Number two is intellect, and the fastest way,

782
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: by the way, just being clean. Now, the fastest way

783
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,799
Speaker 1: to communicate intellect is humor. And just because I get

784
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 1: the sense you probably have very progressive viewers and I

785
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 1: want to offend some of them. This is my invitation

786
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 1: of a woman. I'm laughing, I'm laughing, I'm naked. If

787
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 1: you can make a woman laugh, she will go on

788
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 1: a date with you. The number one, though thing we

789
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 1: don't like to talk about. The number one source of

790
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 1: sexual attraction is the ability to signal resources, and we

791
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: don't like to admit that that is still number one

792
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 1: for women. That's the bad news. But the good news

793
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 1: is it doesn't mean you have to show up with

794
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: a range over a panorai. It means you have to

795
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: have your shit together. It means that you have to

796
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:07,359
Speaker 1: signal that at some point in the future you will

797
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: garner resources because you're responsible, you're smart, you're hardworking, you're

798
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 1: a decent person. But those are kind of the three

799
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:18,839
Speaker 1: things in terms of sexual attraction. But I think leveraging

800
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 1: that desire to have a relationship and to want to

801
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 1: have sex at some point are wonderful things have channeled

802
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 1: in the right way.

803
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 2: Let's get back to resources, because I think some of

804
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,959
Speaker 2: the takeaway from your book is Scott Galoway is really

805
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 2: obsessed with money, and I'm curious if you feel you're

806
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 2: too obsessed with money.

807
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 1: I think everyone needs to take a regular audit of

808
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 1: their addictions. So let's define what an addiction is. So

809
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 1: it's continuing to gauge in something despite it having a

810
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: negative impact. On other parts of your life. Right. I

811
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 1: love alcohol, I love marijuana. I'm really good at them both,

812
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 1: Katie Mussel, I've gotten more out of alcohol than it's

813
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 1: gotten out of me. I'm good at it. I'm a

814
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 1: better version of me. A little bit fucked up. But

815
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: when I started I Morgan Stanley, I cut it all off.

816
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 1: I'm able to manage those things really well. The things

817
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 1: I'm addicted to are the affirmation to strangers I care

818
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 1: too much. I don't know. If this is on YouTube,

819
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:16,760
Speaker 1: I'll go on. I'll look at the comments.

820
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, this will be on YouTube.

821
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 1: But if the comments really negative, I'll be checking my

822
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 1: phone when I should be engaged with my boys. That's

823
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 1: an addiction. I believe what I'm saying. I know I

824
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 1: get it wrong. Sometimes I care too much about what

825
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: strangers think about me, and he gets in the way

826
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 1: of my quality time with my loved ones. That's an addiction.

827
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 1: Hands down, my number one addiction is my addiction of money.

828
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 1: I didn't grow up with a lot of money. My

829
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 1: mom got very sick was very humiliating for me. Not

830
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 1: to be able to take care of her at a

831
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 1: level I wanted to. Money was a thing for me

832
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 1: growing up, and so I've always been very focused on

833
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 1: economic security. I did nothing but work for thirty years

834
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 1: to get economically secure, and I have trouble getting off

835
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 1: that hamster wheel. I have a tremendous amount of my

836
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 1: own self esteem and relevance and sense of worth tied

837
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: to the number in my head or that it is money.

838
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: I'm cognizant of it. I got very lucky. I'm done

839
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 1: unless I screw up again, and I've done it a

840
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 1: few times. I'm done, but I still I'll check my

841
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 1: stocks on my way out of here. I'm always looking

842
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,439
Speaker 1: to make more money. I should be spending more time

843
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: with family and friends. It should occupy less than my headspace.

844
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 1: I've had trouble getting off that hamster wheel.

845
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 2: If you want to get smarter every morning with a

846
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 2: breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and

847
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 2: wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter,

848
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 2: wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. I

849
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 2: was looking at a Reddit thread and it was called

850
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 2: Scott Galloway needs to stop talking about men and boys,

851
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 2: and one person wrote, and I'm not saying this because

852
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 2: now that I know you're obsessed with comments. I feel bad,

853
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 2: but it's interesting because I wanted to see some of

854
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:17,439
Speaker 2: the holes people were poking in your arguments. And someone wrote,

855
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 2: I'm a therapist and I see a ton of young

856
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 2: adult men and boys. Let me tell you, I can

857
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 2: spot a Galloway watcher within about five minutes. There is

858
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 2: absolutely an algorithmic pipeline of left of centermen who have

859
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:33,919
Speaker 2: the presence of mind to reject the Peterson, Rogan, Tate,

860
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 2: Shapiro brand of masculinity that is more misogynistic, outwardly toxic,

861
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:43,759
Speaker 2: and shaming towards women. Galloway, to his credit, packages his

862
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 2: brand of bullshit on improving men and not demeaning women,

863
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 2: but he does so through the same tired and harmful

864
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:55,319
Speaker 2: ways of internalizing shame to be weaponized as a motivator

865
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 2: to compete in the mating market. You'll never be enough

866
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 2: until you win capital and then have a family and

867
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 2: then provide for that family. And this worked for him,

868
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:07,880
Speaker 2: so he's happy to preach it. This poster goes on

869
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:12,760
Speaker 2: to say it's reckless and often unsustainable when approach this way.

870
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:16,800
Speaker 2: People who rush to achieve these benchmarkers in life often

871
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 2: do so in haste. If I just get a girlfriend,

872
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 2: any decent girlfriend, then I'll have a wife and be happy.

873
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 2: Divorce speed run one oh one. Now you've got a

874
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:29,400
Speaker 2: man who derives his value from his partner, and suddenly jealousy, anger,

875
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,799
Speaker 2: and resentment start to creep in when that relationship goes

876
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 2: through natural ebbs and flows. Same thing with placing all

877
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 2: of your value on your career. Lose your job, and

878
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 2: now who are you? You're in my office trying to

879
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 2: rebuild a sense of self from the ground up is

880
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 2: who you probably are. One of the final thoughts of

881
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 2: this poster is improving self worth and self esteem is good,

882
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 2: build it from within. I just thought that was a

883
00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 2: very interesting comment about sort of this provider part of

884
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 2: your prescription, and it just made me wonder, are you

885
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 2: focusing too much on this money because of perhaps your

886
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 2: own hang ups with financial wealth.

887
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 1: I think that's a really thoughtful comment what she wrote,

888
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 1: and I'll take it to heart. I think there's a

889
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 1: kernel of truth in it, because when it hits me,

890
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 1: it hits me hard and I don't like it, which

891
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:28,359
Speaker 1: probably means there's some truth in it. The retort would be,

892
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 1: will me finding self worth pay for my health insurance

893
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:34,880
Speaker 1: for me? And my kids. And I'm not suggesting you

894
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 1: need to be a baller and make millions of dollars.

895
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 1: I'm suggesting in a capitalist society when in America we

896
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,800
Speaker 1: believe in winners and losers. Look, unfortunately, I've lived to

897
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 1: work for a long time, So should I could get

898
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: to economic security because I didn't think I have trauma

899
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 1: around it? That's my way. I acknowledge it may not

900
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 1: be the right way. I think there are a lot

901
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 1: of people who decide they want to work to live,

902
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 1: they move to a lower cost neighborhood. More power to them.

903
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 1: What I'm is that people have an honest conversation around

904
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 1: their expectations economically and the sacrifice required to get there.

905
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 1: When I survey my kids, When I say my kids,

906
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 1: my students, about eighty plus percent of them expect to

907
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 1: be in the top one percent economically. Some of this

908
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 1: is proximity by uscause I was going to say, yeah,

909
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 1: but if you talk to young people and you ask them,

910
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 1: talk to young women about what they expect their partner

911
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,439
Speaker 1: to make to be an economically viable male, it's usually

912
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 1: about the top two or three percent just to qualify

913
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:38,720
Speaker 1: to date him. So those comments resonate with me because

914
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 1: you go to your own playbook around what's worked, and

915
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 1: you think that works for everybody else. I acknowledge that

916
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:48,359
Speaker 1: some of my insecurities have been channeled too much into

917
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,879
Speaker 1: thinking money's going to solve my problems. My dad, who's

918
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:53,879
Speaker 1: an immigrant I was, said America is a terrible place

919
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 1: to be stupid. I think what he meant to say

920
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 1: was that America is a terrible place to be unlucky.

921
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:03,440
Speaker 1: I have been there. I know what it's like to

922
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 1: have you your mom discharged early after cancer treatment and

923
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 1: literally not knowing what the fuck to do, Literally can't

924
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 1: get her back in the hospital, can't do certain things

925
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 1: for my mom as a son, Nurses are thirty five

926
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 1: bucks an hour, and I got seven hundred bucks in

927
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 1: my checking account, so a lot of my life only

928
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: person who ever took care of me, and I got

929
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 1: twenty hours of nurse in care before we're out of money.

930
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:36,400
Speaker 1: And this society doesn't give a shit. So I'm all

931
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 1: for the middle class find purpose in other things, but

932
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 1: have an honest conversation around what it means to have

933
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 1: some dignity in America and what's required to get there.

934
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:52,760
Speaker 1: But I want to be clear, I am too focused

935
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 1: on money. Excuse my views, but I do think young

936
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 1: people need to have an honest conversation around the regulisation

937
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 1: trade offs to be economically viable and have some dignity,

938
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 1: because unfortunately, in America, money means life. Rich people live

939
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 1: on average seven to ten years longer, they have access

940
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 1: to health care, they have access to dignity. The top

941
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:17,799
Speaker 1: one percent are protected by the law, but they're not

942
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:20,439
Speaker 1: bound by it. The bottom ninety nine percent are bound

943
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 1: by the law but not protected by it. That is

944
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:26,360
Speaker 1: absolutely wrong. It's unjust. We need to change it, and

945
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 1: it's the way America is. So I accept that criticism.

946
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:33,879
Speaker 1: It hits hard quite frankly, which probably means there's truth

947
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:37,319
Speaker 1: in it. But feeling good about working on myself and

948
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:40,759
Speaker 1: having self actualization, I think that's great as long as

949
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:42,239
Speaker 1: you can pay for your health insurance.

950
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 2: I know you've never been in therapy, but I just

951
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 2: feel like that I no, I feel like I was

952
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:51,439
Speaker 2: playing the role of the therapist for a second there.

953
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:56,840
Speaker 2: That was very self revelatory, and I appreciate your honesty

954
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:59,840
Speaker 2: about that. Let's talk about the manosphere for a second,

955
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 2: because I think a lot of the negative associations with

956
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 2: masculinity come from that space. Tell me observing people like

957
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:13,439
Speaker 2: the late Charlie Kirk, Joe Rogan, Andrew Tate types, why

958
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 2: do you think they have captured the imagination of so

959
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 2: many young men? Why do you think they have become

960
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:22,439
Speaker 2: these kind of medium messiahs.

961
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 1: I think, I say, capture their imagination as much as

962
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 1: that young men feel seen. To the rights credit the

963
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 1: far rights credit. They recognize the problem before anybody else.

964
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:35,840
Speaker 1: They said, our young men aren't doing well. And the

965
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 1: problem is is that I think some really unproductive voices

966
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 1: entered that void. Generally speaking, their answer, their solution, It

967
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 1: starts off, fine, you have real issues, just like other

968
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 1: special interest groups have issues. You deserve empathy, you deserve

969
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 1: to be seen, take control of your life, be fit,

970
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:58,799
Speaker 1: be action oriented. All these things are wonderful. But then

971
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 1: it comes off the rail because the solution on the

972
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 1: far right usually has something to do with let's go

973
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 1: back to the fifties where non whites and women had

974
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 1: less opportunity, and the most dangerous thing about the manisphere

975
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 1: is to believe that there's an inverse correlation between women's

976
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 1: assent and men's descent. And when I know a young

977
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:20,800
Speaker 1: man has come off the tracks is when he starts

978
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 1: blaming immigrants for his economic problems. Now, the reason why

979
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 1: you can maybe someday afford a house, eat good food

980
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 1: at a reasonable cost, and have someone take care of

981
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: your parents at a low cost is because of immigrants.

982
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 1: The reason we've had so much economic prosperity is because

983
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:39,280
Speaker 1: of immigrants. And when you start blaming women fear problems,

984
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 1: your romantic problems, that's the dude I can't speak to

985
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 1: right And that's where the manisphere went. At the same time,

986
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:49,759
Speaker 1: let me hold the left accountable. I went to the

987
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:53,800
Speaker 1: Democratic National Convention. It was a parade of special interest groups,

988
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:57,920
Speaker 1: not one person talking about the group that has fallen

989
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 1: further fastest in America, young men. If you go to

990
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:03,839
Speaker 1: the DNC website, and I'm going to take credit for this,

991
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 1: because they've changed it since I pointed this out on CNN,

992
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 1: it has a section called who We Serve and at

993
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 1: lists seventeen demographic groups ranging from women, that disabled, Asian

994
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 1: Pacific Islanders, seniors. Just goes down the list. I counted

995
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 1: it up as seventy four percent of the population. The

996
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:26,359
Speaker 1: only demographic it doesn't mention and call out under who

997
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 1: we serve is young men. And when you say you're

998
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 1: advocating for seventy four percent of the population, you're not

999
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:35,880
Speaker 1: advocating for seventy four percent of the population. You're discriminating

1000
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:39,200
Speaker 1: against a twenty six percent. So I don't even think

1001
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 1: young men went to the Republican Party. I think the

1002
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:45,680
Speaker 1: Democratic Party left them, and I think on the left,

1003
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 1: the general consensus around how to solve the young men

1004
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 1: of the masculinity crisis is the following act more like

1005
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 1: a woman. I don't think that's helpful. I don't think

1006
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 1: that's actionable for a young man. You don't have problems.

1007
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:00,799
Speaker 1: You are the problem, and if you were just more

1008
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:02,839
Speaker 1: in touch with your feelings and acted more like a woman,

1009
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 1: you'd be fine. I don't think that's especially constructive either.

1010
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:08,280
Speaker 1: There's got to be a middle ground where if women

1011
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:12,239
Speaker 1: can embrace the wonderful attributes of femininity, that young men

1012
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 1: can grasp and appreciate the wonderful things about masculinity.

1013
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:21,280
Speaker 2: And you say toxic masculinity is an oxymoron, you feel

1014
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:22,880
Speaker 2: like it's been co opted.

1015
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 1: Really, right, have you heard the term toxic femininity? No?

1016
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 1: Because we acknowledge that the female attributes are positives, so

1017
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 1: are masculine attributes. There's violence, there's cruelty, there's an abusive power.

1018
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 1: Those couldn't be any less. Masculine masculinity again comes down

1019
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 1: to providing, protecting, and procreating. When you have Russian soldiers

1020
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,439
Speaker 1: pouring over the border of Ukraine, you want some big

1021
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 1: dick energy. There's no word called the Carnegie Award that

1022
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:57,760
Speaker 1: gives awards to people who literally rush into a burning house.

1023
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:00,480
Speaker 1: It's given to people who risk their own lives in

1024
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:03,560
Speaker 1: the moment to save someone else they don't know. The

1025
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 1: rushing into the burning house of the eighty one awards

1026
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:10,319
Speaker 1: given seventy five or men. Men are much more risk aggressive. Now,

1027
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 1: sometimes that can be reckless, but sometimes it's valor. Men

1028
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 1: have built the biggest buildings in America. Men are better

1029
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:20,359
Speaker 1: in combat. You also need women, who, quite frankly, are

1030
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:22,880
Speaker 1: more measure to make better decisions. If I were to

1031
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 1: say women make better doctors and lawyers, and there's evidence

1032
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:29,239
Speaker 1: that's true in that they make better managers because they

1033
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:32,440
Speaker 1: have an easier time reading the room, people nod their

1034
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 1: heads and clap. If I were to say that on average,

1035
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:40,239
Speaker 1: and this doesn't mean you should in any way limit access.

1036
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:43,760
Speaker 1: Men make better combat soldiers and sometimes make better entrepreneurs

1037
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 1: because they're more risk aggressive. I hear, I don't feel

1038
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:51,879
Speaker 1: safe around you. So we can acknowledge that everyone should

1039
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 1: have a quality of opportunity. But there are wonderful attributes

1040
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:59,920
Speaker 1: around being born a female. And by the way, embrace

1041
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 1: your masculinity or femininity and celebrating both sides. In no

1042
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 1: way is meant to say that a significant portion of

1043
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:08,720
Speaker 1: our population is non binary. They deserve the same rights

1044
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:12,239
Speaker 1: and same opportunities as anybody else. But just as we've

1045
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 1: leaned into really appreciating and celebrating what it means to

1046
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 1: be a woman, why can't we do the same thing

1047
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 1: and say to our young men, you're wonderful. We appreciate

1048
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:25,800
Speaker 1: your strength, we appreciate your value, we appreciate your risk taking.

1049
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 1: We appreciate that you are willing to be aggressive, that

1050
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 1: you are willing to approach people and have crazy ideas

1051
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 1: and try and put men on the moon and approach

1052
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:37,400
Speaker 1: women that are out of your league and apply for jobs.

1053
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:40,960
Speaker 1: We celebrate it for women, why wouldn't we also celebrate

1054
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 1: it for men? And when I think of the happiest,

1055
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 1: most productive households in the world. They bring a mix

1056
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:50,719
Speaker 1: of female and masculine energy. And by the way, some

1057
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:54,040
Speaker 1: of that masculine energy can be brought by women. People

1058
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 1: ask me who my role models are for masculinity. I said,

1059
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:02,280
Speaker 1: Margaret Thatcher, I thought you showed tremendous strength and risk aggressiveness.

1060
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:04,839
Speaker 2: Is this what my husband means when he says I'm

1061
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 2: like the dude?

1062
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 1: Well, these attributes are not sequestered to people born as

1063
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 1: male or female. I'm personally my close friends, my close

1064
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:18,719
Speaker 1: male friends are very feminine. I'm drawn to men who

1065
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:21,440
Speaker 1: take care of me, who are more nurturing and more sensitive.

1066
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:24,040
Speaker 2: Maybe because of your dad, who.

1067
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:26,360
Speaker 1: Knows this is We're going back into the therapy session.

1068
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 1: But just as we celebrated, as we should, feminine energy,

1069
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:32,799
Speaker 1: we should celebrate masculine energy and also acknowledge that the

1070
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:35,840
Speaker 1: greatest alliance in history is a NATO. It is in

1071
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:39,600
Speaker 1: between moderate Republicans and Democrats. The greatest alliance in history

1072
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:40,560
Speaker 1: is between men and women.

1073
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 2: Let me end by asking you a question. One of

1074
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 2: my friends wanted me to ask you. She said, your

1075
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:49,239
Speaker 2: focus in this book, and so much of what you

1076
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:52,960
Speaker 2: talk about these days is the male loneliness crisis. But

1077
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:55,080
Speaker 2: I think to a lot of women it feels like

1078
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:58,719
Speaker 2: their rights, which never even reach parity with men to

1079
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:02,440
Speaker 2: begin with, are being stripped back even further. We have

1080
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:05,880
Speaker 2: an accused sexual predator in the White House, leading the

1081
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 2: Pentagon and on the Supreme Court. So what do you

1082
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 2: say to women who feel like, Okay, I don't want

1083
00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:15,560
Speaker 2: men to feel because that's bad for society as a whole.

1084
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 2: But why should we worry about them when there's so

1085
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 2: much work to be done? And her point was they

1086
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:25,440
Speaker 2: don't seem to be very worried about us.

1087
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 1: I would argue that person doesn't have sons. And let

1088
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:32,080
Speaker 1: me be clear with respect to you're talking to someone

1089
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:36,000
Speaker 1: who was on MSNBC and was giving reasons for why

1090
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:39,200
Speaker 1: we elected an insurrectionist and a rapist. I feel the

1091
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:43,440
Speaker 1: president is a rapist, and see Bannon has called for

1092
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 1: the Trump administration to sume me for saying that. I

1093
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 1: think it is insane that we have someone who has

1094
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 1: been accused of sexual assault twenty eight times and is

1095
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:57,800
Speaker 1: rolling back bodily autonomy. The first time rites have been

1096
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 1: taken away in our country is when and lost, when

1097
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:03,680
Speaker 1: Roe v. Wade is overturned first time in our nation's history,

1098
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:06,320
Speaker 1: we have taken a right back. So I am this

1099
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:09,880
Speaker 1: person's ally. I do not think this is a zero

1100
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 1: sum game. I think we can fight for women's rights.

1101
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 1: I think we can celebrate the progress they've made. And

1102
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:18,880
Speaker 1: what I would ask is that young men recognize that

1103
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 1: our sisters and mothers making progress. We should be the

1104
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 1: after burners to that progress. We should absolutely celebrate it,

1105
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 1: promote it, and again be the chaser to that. At

1106
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:37,040
Speaker 1: the same time, I think women need to recognize that

1107
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:40,280
Speaker 1: young men are struggling and we need their help and

1108
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:43,080
Speaker 1: we need their empathy. But as it relates to a

1109
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 1: president who is a sexual predator and is denying women's rights,

1110
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:50,240
Speaker 1: I am so fucking with you. I am moving back

1111
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 1: to the US and I'm going to be part of

1112
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 1: that fight. This is not a zero sum game. We

1113
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:58,880
Speaker 1: can acknowledge that women still face huge issues, especially when

1114
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:01,040
Speaker 1: they decide to leverage their own they go to seventy

1115
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 1: three cents on the dollar. Right, There's still huge issues

1116
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:08,800
Speaker 1: facing women. But at the same time, we can walk

1117
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 1: into you gum at the same time and realize that

1118
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:12,920
Speaker 1: women are not going to continue to flourish. The country

1119
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,360
Speaker 1: is not going to survive if we have young men

1120
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:17,919
Speaker 1: who are failing. And the reason we put an insurrectionist

1121
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:21,080
Speaker 1: and a rapist in office is the following. If you

1122
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:23,560
Speaker 1: look at the groups the pivoted hardest from blue to

1123
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 1: red from twenty to twenty four, it was one Latinos and.

1124
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:28,400
Speaker 2: A young white men.

1125
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:32,600
Speaker 1: Number two was people under the age of thirty. They

1126
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:35,600
Speaker 1: are not doing well. If they're not doing well, they

1127
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:38,280
Speaker 1: want change. The most interesting was the third group that

1128
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:41,360
Speaker 1: pivoted hardest from red to blue, and it was women

1129
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 1: age forty five to sixty four.

1130
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 2: I mean blue to red.

1131
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:47,960
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, blue to red. Excuse me, thank you, Katie,

1132
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:50,640
Speaker 1: women forty five to sixty four. And my thesis, Katie,

1133
00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 1: and I'm curious if you validate this is that's their mothers.

1134
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 1: Because another thing we don't like to acknowledge.

1135
00:59:56,560 --> 00:59:58,360
Speaker 2: I know I've read that, you said that. It might

1136
00:59:58,440 --> 00:59:59,320
Speaker 2: even be in your book.

1137
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:01,640
Speaker 1: Another thing I don't like to acknowledge is there's still

1138
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:03,360
Speaker 1: a lot of women in this country who will vote

1139
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:05,720
Speaker 1: for who they perceive is best for their husbands and

1140
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:08,440
Speaker 1: their sons. And if your son is in the basement

1141
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:10,640
Speaker 1: playing video games and vaping, you don't give a flying

1142
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:14,360
Speaker 1: fuck about territorial sovereignty in Ukraine or transgender rights. You

1143
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:18,240
Speaker 1: just want change, even if it means chaos. The most

1144
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 1: dangerous person in the world, responsible for the most unstable

1145
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:25,560
Speaker 1: societies in the world, are young men who are broke,

1146
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:28,920
Speaker 1: and we are producing way too many of them, and

1147
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:32,000
Speaker 1: there's no reason we can't restore the same progress and

1148
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:35,360
Speaker 1: the scent of women, while also acknowledging that we need

1149
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:39,200
Speaker 1: to value our young men and stop pathologizing them and

1150
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:42,320
Speaker 1: realize it. If you walk into a morgue and four

1151
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:45,200
Speaker 1: out of five who died by suicide or men, then

1152
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 1: there is trouble in Mudville.

1153
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:50,000
Speaker 2: Well it's a very depressing note.

1154
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:57,000
Speaker 1: Sorry about that, and I generally appreciate the pushback. And

1155
01:00:57,040 --> 01:00:58,680
Speaker 1: what I would ask is if your willing is to

1156
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:00,920
Speaker 1: respond to that woman on Reddit and say that I

1157
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:03,680
Speaker 1: am open to how I can be better at this,

1158
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 1: and that I am her.

1159
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:06,960
Speaker 2: Ally, well you can answer her on Reddit.

1160
01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:08,439
Speaker 1: Well I'll go on. I don't go on to Reddit

1161
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 1: because I find it so rattling.

1162
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:12,200
Speaker 2: Some of the comments didn't make a lot of sense

1163
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:16,520
Speaker 2: to me, but I thought hers was germane. I sort

1164
01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:21,800
Speaker 2: of interrogated you about your view on money and making money. Adriana,

1165
01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:26,840
Speaker 2: who produced this interview, was saying, there's something called provider pressure.

1166
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:29,680
Speaker 1: Oh. I think it's a huge part of anxiety. When

1167
01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:31,800
Speaker 1: the woman in the relationship, in a marriage starts making

1168
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:35,240
Speaker 1: more money than the man, erectile dysfunction, drug usage triples,

1169
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:38,440
Speaker 1: and the likelihood of divorce doubles. I think a lot

1170
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:40,200
Speaker 1: of that is because of provider pressure, and that as

1171
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:42,880
Speaker 1: a man starts to feel insignificant. But I also think

1172
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:44,560
Speaker 1: we need to acknowledge that there's a lot of women

1173
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:46,640
Speaker 1: that deep down still expect the man to be the

1174
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 1: provider and are less sexually interested in him when he

1175
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 1: fails to be the provider. And I don't care how

1176
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:54,480
Speaker 1: many subscriptions The Atlantic or The New York Times you have,

1177
01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:57,040
Speaker 1: I think there are exceptions to that. I hope the

1178
01:01:57,080 --> 01:01:58,400
Speaker 1: world gets better on this front.

1179
01:01:58,520 --> 01:02:00,480
Speaker 2: You know, I face this in my own Marya when

1180
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:02,560
Speaker 2: I was on the Today Show and I married an

1181
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:07,400
Speaker 2: incredibly smart, talented lawyer. But you know, you make funny

1182
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:10,360
Speaker 2: money on television, right, It was really hard for him.

1183
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:13,440
Speaker 2: But this was in the nineties, and I feel like

1184
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:16,440
Speaker 2: it's more and more the norm where the woman is

1185
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:17,360
Speaker 2: out earning her.

1186
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 1: Husband seventeen percent of households, but I would argue your situations,

1187
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:24,160
Speaker 1: especially anomalists. It sounds like your husband was a baller

1188
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:26,600
Speaker 1: in his own right. He just wasn't making millions.

1189
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:28,920
Speaker 2: Of dollars compair and despair stuff, right. You know.

1190
01:02:29,240 --> 01:02:31,280
Speaker 1: The other thing I just want to add is that

1191
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:35,280
Speaker 1: I think what we're terrible at the left, and what

1192
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:37,919
Speaker 1: I think is a very dangerous time for us where

1193
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:42,200
Speaker 1: progressive values are really at risk, is not aligned with

1194
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:45,720
Speaker 1: imperfect allies. I'd like to think most of what I'm

1195
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 1: saying is right. I know some of it is wrong.

1196
01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:50,320
Speaker 1: And what I worry about. What I don't like about

1197
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:52,760
Speaker 1: the left is that we look at each other and say,

1198
01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:55,680
Speaker 1: you're holding the gun wrong. We're both on the same side,

1199
01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:59,360
Speaker 1: we're allies, we agree on ninety percent, but you're holding

1200
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:01,800
Speaker 1: the gun wrong, so off with your head.

1201
01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:04,240
Speaker 2: There is a lot of that, isn't it like self

1202
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:05,280
Speaker 2: righteous judgment?

1203
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:09,040
Speaker 1: There's a purity test, you know. I agree with most

1204
01:03:09,080 --> 01:03:11,760
Speaker 1: people on most things, with most of our progressive wing

1205
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:14,320
Speaker 1: of the party. I disagree with them on Israel. I'm

1206
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:17,440
Speaker 1: a strong advocate for Israel, and I find that the

1207
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:20,720
Speaker 1: right says I find that on the left you get

1208
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:23,120
Speaker 1: treated like an apostate if you don't sign up for

1209
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:27,400
Speaker 1: the full monty of the most extreme narrative feedback. So

1210
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:29,400
Speaker 1: what I would say, and I'll go on to Reddit

1211
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:31,360
Speaker 1: with this woman is I can tell she and I

1212
01:03:31,480 --> 01:03:34,760
Speaker 1: are allies and I'm open to coaching, but we are

1213
01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:35,680
Speaker 1: in this fight together.

1214
01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 2: Scott Galloway, This was really fun. Thank you. The book

1215
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:42,720
Speaker 2: is Notes on Being a Man, Scott Galloway. Great to

1216
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:45,560
Speaker 2: finally spend some time with you. I likewise, thank you

1217
01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:53,200
Speaker 2: so much. Thank you, Katie, Thanks for listening. Everyone. If

1218
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:55,840
Speaker 2: you have a question for me, a subject you want

1219
01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:58,280
Speaker 2: us to cover, or you want to share your thoughts

1220
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:02,280
Speaker 2: about how you navigate this crazy world, reach out send

1221
01:04:02,280 --> 01:04:04,880
Speaker 2: me a DM on Instagram. I would love to hear

1222
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 2: from you. Next Question is a production of iHeartMedia and

1223
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:13,000
Speaker 2: Katie Couric Media. The executive producers are Me, Katie Kuric,

1224
01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:17,600
Speaker 2: and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz, and

1225
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:22,760
Speaker 2: our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian Weller

1226
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:27,520
Speaker 2: composed our theme music. For more information about today's episode,

1227
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:30,080
Speaker 2: or to sign up for my newsletter wake Up Call,

1228
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:33,440
Speaker 2: go to the description in the podcast app, or visit

1229
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:36,720
Speaker 2: us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also find me

1230
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:40,520
Speaker 2: on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more

1231
01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:45,880
Speaker 2: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

1232
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:53,080
Speaker 2: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.