1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:01,840 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Giants Huddle. 2 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 2: I'm Paul Datino, and on today's program, we're going to 3 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 2: talk about something that has a Giants connection, but also 4 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:12,639 Speaker 2: a bigger NFL connection. Everybody knows that Pat Somerrall was 5 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 2: a legendary giant, but he. 6 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 1: Was also a legendary voice. 7 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 2: Of the league, as he and John Madden became the 8 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 2: ultimate TV pairing in network television history as far as 9 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 2: pro football is concerned. Rich Podolski joins us. He has 10 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 2: authored a new book called Madden and Summer. All you 11 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 2: might remember a few years ago he did a book 12 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 2: called You're Looking Live about CBS the NFL Today, which 13 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:42,839 Speaker 2: exploded onto the scene. He was a writer with CBS 14 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 2: Sports for a while, and Rich was so glad you 15 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:47,840 Speaker 2: could join us for this spin off because as someone 16 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 2: who certainly lived those times, it was outstanding to relive 17 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 2: some of those memories. 18 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, feel free to show that book cover, Paul, you 19 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 3: were just about to have. 20 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, god, I know they're gonna get bye. Thank you. Yeah. 21 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:05,759 Speaker 3: I worked at CBS Sports with both of these guys, 22 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 3: and in fact, I knew John Madden from my days 23 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,680 Speaker 3: as a reporter covering the Miami Dolphins and all those 24 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 3: great games with the Raiders. So when John came to 25 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 3: CBS in nineteen seventy nine, myself and Jimmy and the 26 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 3: Greek were the only two people he. 27 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: Knew, and we certainly had a lot of fun together. 28 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 2: All right, Rich, I want to break this down into 29 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 2: a few different areas because there are so many different 30 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 2: twists and stories in the book, and I don't want 31 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 2: to give it all away because that would spoil it 32 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 2: for people. But there were a few key points or 33 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 2: moments that I think I'd like to address with you here, 34 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 2: maybe for a little more color and background. Now, for example, 35 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 2: when some role and Madden get together. Now, that in 36 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 2: itself is kind of crazy, because as I read your 37 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 2: book and I saw that, you know, Madden did some 38 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 2: games with Vince Scully. He did some game summer, all 39 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 2: the people at CBS how to figure out, Okay, who 40 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 2: are we going to pair him with. I can't even 41 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 2: imagine what would have happened had Madden wound up being 42 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 2: paired with Scully. It would have changed the course of 43 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 2: NFL television history exactly. 44 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 3: I'll give you just a short background on that. The 45 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 3: new president of CBS Sports was a big Scully fan, and. 46 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 1: He was a big Madden fan. 47 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 3: He wanted to break up Summer on Brookshire, who were 48 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 3: the number one team prior to that, prior to nineteen eighty, 49 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 3: because of their escapades drinking on weekends doing games. So 50 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 3: he broke them up and he brought in a guy 51 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 3: named Terry O'Neil to run the NFL for CBS, and 52 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 3: O'Neil agreed that Madden could be the number one analyst, 53 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 3: even though he hadn't had the experience yet and he 54 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 3: really wasn't the John Madden we all agree to know. 55 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 3: Showed a lot of promise, but O'Neill wanted summer All 56 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 3: to be the play by play guy because Madden liked 57 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 3: to talk and tell his stories, and summer All was known. 58 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: For being brief. He believed in brevity. 59 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 3: If somebody could say something in ten words, somer All 60 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 3: could say it in five. He could lead, lead you 61 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 3: in and get out, and then if Madden was out 62 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 3: on a limb, he'd pull him back in and he'd 63 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 3: be set for the next play. He was the most 64 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 3: unselfish broadcaster as a play by play guy, and when 65 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 3: it came to working with a guy named like John 66 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 3: Madden now Summer All had been the number one guy, 67 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 3: and he didn't like the fact at all that in 68 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 3: nineteen eighty one it was a contest to see who 69 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 3: would be Madden's partner the new boss Van so wanted. 70 00:03:56,080 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 3: Scully was an LA guy, Soder was an LA guy, 71 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 3: and they all had the same agent. But Terry O'Neill 72 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 3: knew that wasn't going to work. Scully loved to talk, 73 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 3: Madden loved to talk, and O'Neill said, by halftime, the 74 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 3: viewer will be wrung out, So we'll do it this 75 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 3: way if you'll agree to it, and Soda agreed to it. 76 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 3: The first four weeks of the season, Madden work with Scully, 77 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 3: In the next four, in October he worked with Summer All, 78 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 3: and on October twenty six, the executives all voted, and 79 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 3: they all voted for summer All, and Soder went along 80 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 3: with that. 81 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 2: All right, now, let's go backwards just a ted from 82 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:42,559 Speaker 2: that point, because as I read your book, I found 83 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 2: out that Summer All by a fluke a call from 84 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 2: CBS Radio to his roommate Charlie Connolly back in sixty two, 85 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 2: when summer All thought he might be playing another year, 86 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 2: his entry into broadcasting, which actually started this whole ball rolling, 87 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 2: was kind of a fluke anyway, because he came in 88 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 2: for an audition because Connolly was going in for an audition, 89 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 2: and that's what got some role involved into broadcasting in 90 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 2: the first place. And Madden, who would want a Super 91 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 2: Bowl as a coach with the Raiders, remember some role 92 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 2: as a kicker with the Giants. Madden wasn't originally interested 93 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,359 Speaker 2: in getting into broadcasting, and in fact NBC, which was 94 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 2: the AFC network, didn't want him because they didn't think 95 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 2: he looked the part. So this is pretty wild how 96 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 2: these things kind of kind of developed from the very beginning. 97 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 1: You've got it right on the nose. 98 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 3: Paul don Olmyer at NBC told a producer he look 99 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 3: at him. 100 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: He's a mess. We're not going to put him on 101 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: the air. 102 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 3: And the guy was flabbergasted because he knew how good 103 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 3: Madden was. But Matt and Madden didn't want to work 104 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 3: with broadcasters. When he was first approached by Barry Frank, 105 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 3: an agent for IMG at CBS, wanted to get in 106 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 3: four or five games. He said, I don't know those 107 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 3: those guys are a bunch of hairdos like Howard Gosell, 108 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 3: real bunch of hair dues. They don't know what they're 109 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 3: talking about, they don't do their work, and they're often wrong, 110 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 3: and I don't want to be associated with them. Maybe 111 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 3: in a couple of years. And Barry Frank, who was 112 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:21,279 Speaker 3: a wise wise agent, said, you know, John, he won 113 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 3: the Super Bowl the year before last, but in a 114 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 3: couple of years, they may not want you. And Man 115 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 3: thought about that, and he said, you know, you're right. 116 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 3: Four or five games, I'll give it a shot. I'll 117 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 3: see if I like it or not. And that's how 118 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 3: it started. And that first year, I won't say he 119 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:44,119 Speaker 3: was awful, but he was a miles and miles away 120 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 3: from being good. And I was a friend to his 121 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 3: and I'm telling you he wasn't good. He was mediocre 122 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 3: at best. And the reason was he didn't know how 123 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:58,600 Speaker 3: to be an analyst. He just kept trying, and nobody 124 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 3: helped him at CBS, and they kept putting them with 125 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 3: a different play by play guy, a different producer and 126 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 3: director each game he did, and that didn't help either. 127 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 3: He couldn't get in any rhythm. And finally he started 128 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 3: to hone it down. He watched his own tapes. He said, 129 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 3: I know I have to cut back on my stories, 130 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 3: but it was a tough go that first year. 131 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: And the first year ended was his fourth and. 132 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 3: Final game on Thanksgiving Sunday with Pat Summer all of 133 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 3: all people. By accident, Brookshire was supposed to be doing 134 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 3: that game with him, and Brookshire went to his daughter's 135 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 3: coming out party instead. They plugged in Madden and the 136 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 3: two of them worked together for the first time at 137 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 3: a Tampa game. Now, none of Madden's games were going 138 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 3: back to New York. They were just going to Tampa 139 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 3: and Minnesota or wherever while he was getting his footing 140 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 3: and Summer all thought Madden had had some promise also, 141 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 3: But he certainly I watched that game on YouTube. He 142 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 3: certainly wasn't the John Mann we all grew to love, 143 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 3: the great storyteller, the sound effects, you know, there there 144 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 3: was no writing on the TV screen that. 145 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: At that time. 146 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 3: And that was his last game, and he had improved some, 147 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 3: but who knows that it was. 148 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: It was really up in the air whether they bring 149 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: him back. Hoddle up, get in here. If you're lined 150 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: up here, you got to go over the middle with 151 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: at the score great, How do we make that happen. 152 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,199 Speaker 2: I don't know, but Citizens does it makes sense of 153 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 2: your money with Citizens Official Bank of Eli Manning, right. 154 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 2: I think it's very interesting when we look at how 155 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 2: circumstances kind of worked out. You talk in the book 156 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 2: about there's a Super Bowl luncheon for a bunch of 157 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 2: advertising execs and VIPs, and apparently at that luncheon, Madden 158 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 2: just as his Gregary yourself, and that's kind of what 159 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 2: would turn CBS on to the fact that, you know what, 160 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,959 Speaker 2: maybe there is something more here, and he became more 161 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 2: of a teacher in the booth than just a storyteller, 162 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 2: and that seemed to be a pivot into how he would, 163 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 2: you know, develop his style over the course of his 164 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 2: announcing career. 165 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a big moment in his career. That 166 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 3: big TV Arts and Sciences lunch in three days before 167 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 3: the Super Bowl. CBS put it on in the ballroom 168 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:34,559 Speaker 3: of the Beverly Wilshire Hotel. Five hundred executives, advertisers, media, 169 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 3: NFL people, you name it, they were all there. Deis 170 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 3: was Brent Melsberger at one end, Pete Roselle at the 171 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 3: other end, and in between three Super Bowl coaches working 172 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 3: for CBS, George Allen, hank Stram, and John Madden, and 173 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 3: when it was Madden's turn to talk, he got up 174 00:09:56,040 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 3: and walked down the row on the diet from behind, 175 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 3: all the way down to where Pete Roselle was. And 176 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,439 Speaker 3: the question somebody asked in the audience is would you 177 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 3: ever be a coach again? And Magnet totally ignored the question. 178 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 3: He walked down to where Roselle was, put his hand 179 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 3: on Roselle's shoulder and squeezed and said, you know, people 180 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:24,559 Speaker 3: ask me all the time what I think about NFL officiating, 181 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 3: And from there he went into this five minute routine. 182 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 3: It could have been on Johnny Carson, that's how funny 183 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 3: it was. And the whole place was in an uproar, 184 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 3: laughing hysterically, and the CBS execs, who thought that they 185 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 3: might not be bringing them back, they all got together 186 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 3: and they realized he's just not another ex coach wanting 187 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 3: to be an announcer. He is someone to be reckoned with. 188 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 3: They finally saw him for what he could be, and 189 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 3: from there they moved him up. They worked them only 190 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 3: with Gary Bender the second year, only the same producer 191 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 3: and director of the second year, and he did improve, 192 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 3: and I think and all also just a quick note, 193 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 3: that second year, which was nineteen eighty, the melware like 194 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:21,199 Speaker 3: commercials started and Madden was the guy breaking through the wall, 195 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 3: going up to the bar, grabbing the beer and saying 196 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:28,199 Speaker 3: tastes great less feeling. And everybody loved him in those commercials, 197 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 3: and that's how he captured the heart and mind of 198 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 3: the new CBS president Van Sawner. 199 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 2: Well, I think one of the things that we all 200 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:42,199 Speaker 2: take for granted in this announcing business today is how 201 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 2: we prepare for a game, how the crew's work a game, 202 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 2: the different levels of the network casts from the national 203 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 2: cast to the regional cast, etc. 204 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: Etc. 205 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 2: And of course the telestrator. But there are so many 206 00:11:55,720 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 2: facets to NFL coverage today that we actually to Madden 207 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 2: and his Perry would summerroll because when he got together 208 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 2: with Patt and CBS and with Terry O'Neil, they basically 209 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 2: changed the way that networks would get ready to cover 210 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 2: a game and how they actually would cover the game 211 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 2: in game, would things such as the telestrator. I found 212 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 2: that out to be very fascinating. 213 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:27,559 Speaker 1: It was a total change. By the way before. 214 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 3: The Madden and Summer all days well would happen is 215 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 3: the day before the game, the producer, director and the 216 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 3: play by play guy and the analyst will meet with 217 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 3: the PR guys at the site of the game. PR 218 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:46,359 Speaker 3: guys would go over the three deep roster, the pronunciation 219 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 3: of the tough names, who was hurt. Then everybody would 220 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 3: go out and have dinner and drink and if it 221 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 3: was summer on Brookshire, you were lucky if they showed 222 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 3: up on Sunday. Madden started taking the train because he 223 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 3: was Clauster Foe, but got there two days early instead 224 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 3: of just the day before. 225 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: He started going to practices. 226 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,439 Speaker 3: He found out he could get so much more information 227 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 3: talking to coaches and players at the practices. 228 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: Terry O'Neill goes to. 229 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 3: Val Pinchback at the NFL and says, we want access 230 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 3: in meetings before the game. And Val said, you want 231 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 3: what nobody had ever done that before, And he said, 232 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 3: we promised not to reveal anything before the game, and 233 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:33,839 Speaker 3: he gave him access and they summer all on Brooke, 234 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 3: Summer all I Brooks Summerwan Madden and Terry O'Neill were 235 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 3: in on these meetings. They take all the players and 236 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 3: the coaches. They found out what the strategy was. And 237 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 3: then they went back to the producer's suite Saturday night 238 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 3: and Madden would put on a film study for all 239 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 3: the crew. He would keep the room at fifty nine 240 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 3: degrees to make sure everybody was watched, and he showed 241 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:06,839 Speaker 3: them the plays to expect. Now, if you knew all 242 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,199 Speaker 3: the questions to a test before you took the test, 243 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 3: it would. 244 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: Be a lot easier. 245 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 3: That's how he changed the way games were broadcasts, you know. 246 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 3: Plus the fact that with this pair it was like 247 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 3: peanut butter meeting jelly for the first time. 248 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: Some are all Madden working together. 249 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 3: When they finally worked together in eighty one, they changed 250 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 3: the whole dynamic of the broadcast, with the analysts now 251 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 3: being the center of attention. And Madden became the guy 252 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 3: we all knew. He became the colorable, great analysts. He 253 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 3: became the guy who could simultaneously coach both teams on 254 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 3: the field at the same time while giving you all 255 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 3: sorts of great stuff about the players. And some Row 256 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 3: gave himself up. He could have done so much more 257 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 3: and had had in the past, gave himself up to 258 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 3: allow Madden to be Madden. 259 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 2: And I think too rich. It's a very fortuitous break 260 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 2: that technology happened to advance just at the right time, 261 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 2: so that the weathermen and other stations and networks that 262 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 2: were using a telestrator to do things about meteorology, well, 263 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 2: all of a sudden we had a chance, thanks to 264 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 2: Terry O'Neill and John Madden, to incorporate that into football. 265 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: It was unbelievable. 266 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 3: I mean O'Neil said it was like it dropped from 267 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 3: heaven on his desk one day. The telestrator thing, they 268 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 3: called it the CBS chalkboard. And Madden had been complaining 269 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 3: from the day he arrived at CBS that television doesn't 270 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 3: know how to cover football. All you show is four 271 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 3: guys against four guys. There are twenty two guys on 272 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 3: the field. Let's see why certain things happened. Let's show 273 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 3: a lot more of what's going on in the game. 274 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 3: And the telestrator allowed him to do that, and he 275 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 3: became Amarcus Nutty football professor. He had a great knack 276 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 3: of showing, not just explaining it in a dull way. 277 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: He made it colorful. 278 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 2: If you want to know how to manage two minutes 279 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 2: of crunch time football, I'm your man, But if you're 280 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 2: wondering about a long term financial plan, you should talk 281 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 2: to Citizens. 282 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: Hey, I can also talk long care. I'd like to 283 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: learn about amilliar team. 284 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 2: Yes, I knew I could help make sense of your 285 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 2: money with Citizens. I think the other item that I 286 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 2: found really really humorous was that Madden I guess before 287 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 2: one of the Super Bowls, to prepare, the production team 288 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 2: went out and got a high school football team. 289 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: That was the producer Terry O'Neil. 290 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 2: Oh, my goodness. 291 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. 292 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 3: They went to Great Lens. Yeah, and they taped it 293 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 3: and then Madden would show the plays. They would O'Neill 294 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 3: knew the place that they expected both teams to run, 295 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 3: and they had the high school team run those plays, 296 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 3: and then Madden would go over with the crew the 297 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 3: night before the game. 298 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 1: O'Neil was brilliant. 299 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:12,679 Speaker 2: Oh, I don't think there's any question. And really what 300 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 2: rich when you think about it, the confluence of these events, 301 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 2: whether it be fate or guys being in the right 302 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 2: place at the right time for whatever reason, technology coming 303 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 2: up with exactly the right answer at the right time. 304 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: So many of these. 305 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:32,119 Speaker 2: Stars had to align perfectly for this to happen. And 306 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:34,679 Speaker 2: then of course, some years later, all of a sudden, 307 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 2: CBS loses the NFL contract and now Fox is a 308 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 2: big player, and what do they do. They go after 309 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,879 Speaker 2: the biggest duo that you could possibly find on television. 310 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, CBS really underplayed their chance to keep the contract 311 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 3: because Fox was willing to overbid because they're trying to 312 00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 3: build a network. I mean they only had one hundred 313 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 3: and third six stations to over two hundred for the 314 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 3: Big Three. And those one hundred and thirty six stations 315 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 3: were most of them were uhf you know, way out 316 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 3: in the hinderland on the dial. 317 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: They weren't one through twenty. 318 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 3: So, uh, Murdoch was willing to overpay CBS bit two 319 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 3: ninety five a year for the next four years. Murdoch 320 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 3: bits four h five or four to ten. Uh, he 321 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 3: just blew it out. 322 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 1: And CBS had a chance to match that. 323 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 3: And Larry Tish, who owned CBS at the time, said, 324 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 3: I'm not losing any more money on this. Well, he 325 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 3: learned his lesson four years later when they got the AFC. 326 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 3: They paid over four hundred million a year just for 327 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 3: the AFC and they no longer had the luxurious NFC channels. 328 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 2: So for twenty two years through the Super Bowl that 329 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 2: was played early in the two thousand and one calendar year, 330 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:04,399 Speaker 2: and some are all dominated the National Football League airwaves. 331 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:06,640 Speaker 2: I mean, to be honest with you, Rich, I think 332 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 2: the seventies and eighties were a golden era of NFL voices, 333 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 2: But these guys were still the pinnacle, which goes to 334 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,880 Speaker 2: show you truly how elite they were. But all good 335 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 2: things do come to an end. And I found it 336 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:21,879 Speaker 2: very interesting in reading your book about some Roow was 337 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 2: going through some health issues and he was slowing down 338 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 2: some and it was kind of bittersweet because you know, 339 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 2: he was still with John, and John and him were 340 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 2: such a great pair. But it kind of looked like, uh, oh, 341 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:36,719 Speaker 2: this is going to have to come to an end 342 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 2: at some point, and it actually obviously did. 343 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, the Fox executives knew that he had lost a 344 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 3: step to speak pat because he was also six years 345 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:56,679 Speaker 3: older than John, and he definitely had a residual effect 346 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 3: from all his drinking. He had stopped drinking in ninety three, 347 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 3: but it's still never left his body and it's still 348 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 3: kept on attacking him. And he had other issues. He 349 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 3: had a brain cancer issue later on, so the Fox 350 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 3: executives tried to give him a soft landing. They went 351 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,639 Speaker 3: to him and they said, let this be your next 352 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,439 Speaker 3: to last year, and then your last year, we'll have 353 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 3: a big Powell and party everywhere you go. It'll be 354 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 3: a great sendoff for you. Fifty years in the NFL, 355 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 3: one way or another. You know, summer All had done 356 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 3: it all. He started as a player tight end. He 357 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:44,640 Speaker 3: was even a rushing defensive end with Bobby Lane Detroit 358 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 3: Lions when he started. Then he became a kicker, and 359 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,640 Speaker 3: one that famous game for the Giants where he thought 360 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 3: Vince Lombardi was going to congratulate him. Vince Entbardi was 361 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 3: the offensive coach for the Giants and he goes to 362 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 3: the silence and Lombardi grabs. 363 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: Him and says, you son of him. Do you know 364 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: you can't kick it that far for that fifty r field. 365 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 3: And then when he finally got into NFL broadcasting, he 366 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 3: started as an analyst and he worked his way over 367 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 3: to play by play. He had done it all. He 368 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,199 Speaker 3: had worked every Super Bowl. As John Madden said, there 369 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:25,120 Speaker 3: were voices before Pat summer All, there'll be voices after Pat. 370 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,640 Speaker 1: Some are all, but Pat's was the Voice of the NFL. 371 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 2: Well Rich, That brings me to my final thought, and 372 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,439 Speaker 2: that is until reading your book, and I've been in 373 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 2: this business for over forty years myself, I did not 374 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 2: know that some Roll and Madden were not as close 375 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 2: off the air as they were on. That really did 376 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 2: surprise me. But maybe that's part of the magic as 377 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 2: to why they were so great together in the booth. 378 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 3: Do you how do you assess that they were two 379 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,919 Speaker 3: completely different types of guys. Some are all liked to 380 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 3: go hang out with the team executives, have steak, dinner 381 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 3: and drinks when he got to an event a weekend, 382 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 3: a weekend game, and Madden liked to hang out with 383 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 3: the crew, you know, and they were completely different that way. 384 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: You know. Madden didn't really drink at all. 385 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 3: I mean there was the line in the book when 386 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 3: his family said, you know, you got this chance to 387 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 3: do the Miller like commercials. What do you think And 388 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 3: Madden says to his wife and kids, I don't even 389 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:40,639 Speaker 3: like beer, you know, so, uh, he wasn't a drinker 390 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 3: at all. Some are all really lived the high life. 391 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 3: From his previous years as a morning interviewer on the radio, 392 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,200 Speaker 3: he would go out nights and interview people and bring 393 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 3: them back for the morning morning show. So Summer was 394 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 3: a different type of guy completely, but they got along great, 395 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 3: and you know, when things were important, they were there 396 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,400 Speaker 3: for each other. When John had a chance to see 397 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 3: his two sons play each other in a college football game, 398 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:21,640 Speaker 3: Summer all was there for him. They really took each 399 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 3: other seriously that way. But you know, I remember one 400 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 3: incident when Madden went to Washington, d C. With the 401 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 3: young kids that Terry O'Neill hired to be as kind 402 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 3: of associates that they were called Brooks associates. They were 403 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 3: really gophers learning the business. And he gets to the 404 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 3: hotel and there's a note there for him. It's from 405 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 3: Ethel Kennedy, the widow of a former brother of JFK 406 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 3: Robert F. Kennedy, and she says, we're big fans of yours, John, 407 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 3: we'd love to have lunch at dinner with you this weekend. 408 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 3: And Michael Arnold, who was now a great director at CBS, 409 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 3: was that kid in nineteen eighty one, and he said, geez, John, 410 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 3: are you going to go and have dinner with Ethel Kennedy? 411 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 3: And Madden thanks for a minute, and says, now I'm 412 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 3: going to hang out and have Mexican food with you guys. 413 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: And and that's and that's how he was. 414 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 3: You know. So they were, they were. They were completely 415 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:26,640 Speaker 3: different in lifestyles that way, but they there was tremendous 416 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,679 Speaker 3: respect for each other. They both loved the game enormously. 417 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 3: I think if Madden hadn't gotten this hurt his rookie 418 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 3: year with the Eagles, he would have been a great 419 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,639 Speaker 3: lineman as well. 420 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,159 Speaker 1: But you know, they were. 421 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:47,439 Speaker 3: They were together, as I said, peanut, butter and jelly 422 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 3: just unbelievable. And they changed the way we watched the game. 423 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,120 Speaker 3: You know, when that Summer All came on at one o'clock, 424 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 3: you had turned on your TV. You knew it was 425 00:24:59,160 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 3: a big game. 426 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 2: Oh, without a doubt. The book is Madden and Summer All. 427 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,639 Speaker 2: Rich Podolski, I can't thank you enough for putting this 428 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 2: together because not only is it a great story about 429 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:17,120 Speaker 2: two very important NFL legends in our lives, but also 430 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,959 Speaker 2: it really gives people insight to the behind the scenes stuff, 431 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 2: as you did with the book that you did about 432 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 2: the NFL today you are looking live. It allows people 433 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 2: a little bit of a peak as to what goes 434 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 2: on behind the scenes, how this great game has been 435 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,360 Speaker 2: brought to all these millions and millions of Americans over 436 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 2: the course of all of these years. So I just 437 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 2: want to personally thank you for what you did, because 438 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:42,400 Speaker 2: I think you did one heck of a job. 439 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 1: Oauh. 440 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 3: I appreciate that so much. I thank you very much. 441 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 3: By the way, if anybody wants the book, they could 442 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 3: go on Amazon and pre order it now. It'll be 443 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 3: out in two weeks, just. 444 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 2: In time for the beginning of football season. Rich all 445 00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 2: the best to you. That'll do it for this edition 446 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 2: of The Giants Subtle. I'll paul it the Tina. We'll 447 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 2: see you next time.