1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Hey, I'm Baritune Day Thurston and this is How to 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: Citizen with Baritune Day in season two. We're talking about 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: the money, because, to be real, it's hard to citizen 4 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: when we can barely pay the bills. Hey you, it's 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:24,080 Speaker 1: me Baritune Day from the title of the podcast you're 6 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: listening to. And this is our last episode of season 7 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: two of How to Citizen and it's a very special episode. 8 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,880 Speaker 1: I promise it will be worth the weight. But first 9 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: I wanted to share something about myself with you. I've 10 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: tried to do that regularly, telling you a story from 11 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 1: my past or the way I see the world. And 12 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:48,559 Speaker 1: I realized I haven't really shared much about the role 13 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:51,279 Speaker 1: that comedy has played in my life, and it's an 14 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: important part of my life. I think my first exposure 15 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: to comedy was as a child in my mom's house. 16 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: I mean this title hunk a lot kind of this 17 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: total comes over to me and I goes like hi, 18 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: And I was totally not ready for like this heavy 19 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:15,040 Speaker 1: conversation watching Whoopie Goldberg and British comedies on PBS. Elizabeth Morning, 20 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: relaxed and casual, you look, but the lessons that comedy 21 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: really taught me wouldn't come until later in my life 22 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: when I started practicing comedy. And I first started doing 23 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: this with an email newsletter when I was in college 24 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: in the ninth I wanted my friends to be more 25 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: informed about the world because I was super fun in 26 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: the nineties, and I made a comedy email newsletter that 27 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 1: did just that, lured them in with jokes and satire. 28 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: They left understanding what was happening with the United Nations? 29 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: Got your classmates. I started doing stand up, which is 30 00:01:55,560 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: even more committed, more interactive, more emotional because you're in 31 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: a room with other people while you're making the art, 32 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: and they were a part of it. One thing I 33 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 1: do love those technology. I love it, even the ball 34 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:12,119 Speaker 1: the super special powers it gives you, like the ability 35 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: to send an email to the cell phone company while 36 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: you won't hold with them to complain about drop calls. 37 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: And then my comedy evolution continued and made it my 38 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,639 Speaker 1: full time job working for a satirical news outlet known 39 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: as The Onion, and continued on joining The Daily Show 40 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: with Trevor Noah to help that show relaunched under his leadership. 41 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: I've learned so much from comedy beyond surviving tough times. 42 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: It's taught me how to communicate better. It's taught me 43 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 1: that one of the best ways to talk about a 44 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: thing is not to talk about the thing, at least 45 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,959 Speaker 1: not directly, but to tell a story about the thing 46 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: and invite people into that story. And lastly, it's shown 47 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: me a new way to connect with people, even people 48 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: who I don't think I have anything to connect over. 49 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: It's helped me feel seen and heard and to see 50 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: and hear others in a way that's much more inviting 51 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:17,119 Speaker 1: than just a pilot facts and data. So I appreciate 52 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: you Comedy for bringing these lessons into my life and 53 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 1: helping other people benefit from those lessons. I've learned the 54 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: idea of something that helps us connect see each other here, 55 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: each other be acknowledged. That's at the heart of this podcast. 56 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: That's how the Citizen. That's this season. We are so divided, 57 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: and the way we experience this economy, the way we've 58 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 1: designed this economy, contribute so much to that division. And 59 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: we've spent this season talking to people working on closing 60 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: that dividal, making something a bit better, and their nonprofit leaders, 61 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 1: their business people. They're experts in their fields, or they 62 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: just saw something off in their town where they were 63 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: I t directors and wanted to make it better, or 64 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: given the love letter I just shared with you about 65 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: the power of comedy. I also think comedians have a 66 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: role to play. Certainly some are already playing that role 67 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: in connecting us and helping us citizens. My guest today 68 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 1: is a very talented comedian. He's citizens hard. I don't 69 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: think he can help it, and he's so good that 70 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 1: in getting people to laugh, he's also getting them to 71 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 1: think a poo is a complicated character because he's also 72 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: really smart, really funny, but he's built on a stereotype. 73 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: They they've basically done all this work to beef up 74 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: something that was built on a really weak foundation, which 75 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:03,279 Speaker 1: is like racism. After the Break, Harrikon de Bolu shows 76 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: us how comedians helped create the world we all want 77 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 1: to live in. What day of the week is it hurry? 78 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: I told you I'm a parent, I have no respons 79 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: Harrikon de Bolu is a comedian, a writer, a podcaster, 80 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,039 Speaker 1: and a friend. He's also a graduate of the London 81 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 1: School of Economics and Political Science. He wrote and starred 82 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 1: in the documentary The Problem with Apu which explores discrimination 83 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: against South Asians via the TV show The Simpsons. Harie, 84 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: what's up man, It's so good to have you here, 85 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: Barton Day. It is always good to see you, my brother. 86 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:59,919 Speaker 1: Thank you for having me on your podcast. Before the 87 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: London School of Economics and Political Science, before stand up comedy, 88 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: there was a child named Hari Kondabolu. Can you tell 89 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 1: me what your childhood was like? Sure? I grew up 90 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: in Queens, New York, um to immigrant parents, both from 91 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: Southern India. I grew up initially in Jackson Heights, which 92 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: is Little India. If you're on seventy four, but as 93 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: you walk to eight two, you're passing little Mexican communities, 94 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: a little Colombian communities, you know, a little Thai community. 95 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 1: Like that's that's normal. Growing up in Queens meant I 96 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 1: was never the only one. I was never the only Indian, 97 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,840 Speaker 1: the only South Indian, the only South Indian from our 98 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: region of India. Like that is the luxury of Queens, 99 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 1: New York. How do you know you're in Little India? 100 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 1: What do these places look like or smell like or 101 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 1: feel like? Can you try to put us there? It's funny, 102 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: it's called little India. But it really you know, it's 103 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,919 Speaker 1: it's at this one little South Asia. If it was 104 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 1: mostly Indian immigrants back in the seventies and eighties, now 105 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: you have lots of Pakistani immigrants, Bangladeshi immigrants, um Sri 106 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: Luncan immigrants to Batan's Napaliese or what mainstream would mainstream 107 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: America would call Indians, but they're they're actually not Indians, 108 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: just like everybody from Latin America is Mexican, right exactly. 109 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: So it's like, no, this is a really diverse group 110 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: of humanity. So you'll see sorry shops, tons of different restaurants, 111 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: some which are definitely catered to a gentrifying and tourist 112 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: community and some that are not. And we'll get you sick. 113 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: Um it's I mean, I wouldn't say it's not as 114 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: bad as oh, you're going to kebab king, don't drink 115 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: the water. I wouldn't say that, but it's certainly like 116 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: some of the places like are the real deal. You know, 117 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: you walk the streets and you're hearing tons of different languages, 118 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: and you're seeing clothing that hints of other places, whether 119 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: it's a turban or whether it's a hit job or 120 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: in a cob or other types of ethnic garb, which 121 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: is the term that obviously throwing a us in school. 122 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: Make sure on this international night that you wear your 123 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: ethnic garb. I want to thank you for using the 124 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: word garb multiple times. I honestly forgot that word existed, 125 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: and then you threw me back to a different time. 126 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: We heard that way too, way too often. Yeah, describe 127 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: what it was like for you to be the son 128 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: of parents who immigrated to the U. S. What what 129 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: was that experience life for you? It wasn't weird in 130 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: that Again, I grew up in a place where there 131 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: was lots of people whose parents came from other places 132 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: or whose grandparents did. It's not strange you have parents 133 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 1: that are immigrants in a broader sense, because even the 134 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 1: white kids wouldn't call themselves white, you know, like I'm white? No, 135 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: You're what? Do you Greek? Your Italian? You're Irish? Have 136 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:01,679 Speaker 1: you ever been to Ireland? My great great grandparents were 137 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: last in Ireland, But we're still Irish, you know what 138 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: I mean? Like there's this sense of ownership of identity 139 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: and that immigration is is we all got here somehow, 140 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: and you're surrounded by it and so everybody has ethnic garb. 141 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 1: Oh my god, yeah, I mean, and that way it 142 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 1: wasn't weird, but of course it's strange, and that this 143 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,439 Speaker 1: is a system that's not built for for immigrant parents, right, 144 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 1: So it's it's a lot of we're educating our parents 145 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: while we're educating ourselves. What does that mean? That means 146 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: that they don't know how the report cards work, They 147 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 1: don't know how the testing system works. My parents, especially 148 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: early on in our education. My mom in particularly, was 149 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: more proactive because she was a stay at home mom 150 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: initially and she went to all the PTA meetings so 151 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: she knew. But once she started working, it's not like 152 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 1: she had this default like this is how the school 153 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: system works, this is when you apply to college, this 154 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: is when I say T sre. So that means that 155 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: it's up to you to figure things out and ask 156 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 1: a lot of questions and educate them if they don't know, 157 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: because oftentimes they didn't know. And you know, and I 158 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 1: was lucky because I had parents who spoke English and 159 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: had some degree of upward mobility, right because they both 160 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: worked in hospitals. They weren't doctors in this country, but 161 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: they worked in hospitals had access to people who grew 162 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: up here knew the system. Right, there's folks who are 163 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 1: working working class jobs and immigrant becos. They don't have 164 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: access to it. It takes a lot more work. Uh, 165 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: you know you want to go to the PTA means 166 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:32,840 Speaker 1: but you're working three jobs? Do you know what I mean? 167 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 1: So you know it requires kids to like be more proactive. 168 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: It also means that kids can lie about, oh, we 169 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: didn't get our report cards. You know. It means that 170 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: kids can say, oh, we don't. No, I didn't get 171 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 1: in trouble. I don't know where you heard that. You know, 172 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: me and my brother didn't have because we had parents 173 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: who spoke the language. Not to say that my brother 174 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,199 Speaker 1: didn't find ways to I was like, you're paying yourself 175 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: to be little saints. I'm not sure I was a saint. 176 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: My brother printed his report cards and brought them home 177 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: for a year. Wow, so we're we're throwing our brother 178 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,959 Speaker 1: under the bus. Okay, he threw himself under the bus 179 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: years ago. So in in the Queen's era of your life, 180 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 1: this very diverse, immigrant rich where even the white people 181 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:18,959 Speaker 1: are ethnic, in that harri childhood America, what was your 182 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: understanding of what it meant to be a citizen, not 183 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: as legal papers, but as sort of civic participation. What 184 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 1: was your childhood experience of our concept of that kind 185 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: of citizen. You know, it's interesting. My father, his father 186 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 1: was a notable politician in southern India. Um went to 187 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: jail for the independence movement, like was very active. My 188 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:47,079 Speaker 1: mother's grandmother, you know, went to jail for the independence movement, 189 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: marched with Gandhi uh. In fact, when she had I 190 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: think it was my grand uncle and my grandfather was 191 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 1: maybe a couple of years. She like went to jail 192 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: holding his hand and and holding the baby to her chest, 193 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: like she she was a freedom fighter. She wore cotton 194 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,719 Speaker 1: for the rest of her life, no British products. So 195 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: that's the context we were coming from. So, you know, 196 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: thinking about it later, I'm like, you would expect I 197 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: would have had a very politicized existence in this country, 198 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 1: but it wasn't that. In fact, it was very much 199 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: don't cause any trouble, you know, don't get in trouble, 200 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: don't break the law, don't question authority. It was very much, 201 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: you know the opposite of kind of the life that 202 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 1: my great grandmother had practiced. It was, you know, both, 203 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 1: this is your country, but we're not from here. And 204 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: so my political and my brother's political understand came often 205 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 1: from the outside um and it came from values my 206 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: parents taught us in terms of you know, when they 207 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: were in positions to help other immigrants or people of color, 208 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: they always did. They often, when it could hire people, 209 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 1: would hire people of color, you know, would hire black folks, 210 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: Latino folks, immigrants, refugees. They hired people knowing that if you, 211 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: in particular an immigrant or a person of color, this 212 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: place wasn't made for you. And so that reality from 213 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: a very early age became clear. But then once I 214 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 1: went to college after nine eleven, I'm a political being 215 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: and it's this world where I grew up in Queens, 216 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: New York, with diversity, see injustice and understanding that, but 217 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:35,079 Speaker 1: still feel I'm an American. Nine eleven happens and those 218 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,319 Speaker 1: worlds class because all of a sudden, I see people 219 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 1: with brown skin being beaten up. It doesn't matter what 220 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: papers you have, it doesn't matter your skin's brown. And 221 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: I started to think more about the history of this country. 222 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: And I started during the parallels too, you know, the 223 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 1: civil rights movement before, which is embarrassing, which also speaks 224 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 1: maybe the privilege of being a non black person of color. 225 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: It took our assets getting kicked to understand. Oh, that's 226 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: what you guys were talking about. Oh, ship, So that 227 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: does happen, and it's a shame, especially coming from a 228 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: colonized country who had our asthlets kicked by white people, 229 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, but I think there's there's also projecting 230 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: a little speculating a bit and intelligently, I hope guessing 231 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 1: that no one ever wants to kind of continually own 232 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 1: that part of the experience. They're shaming it too. You 233 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: hope that's in the past, and now we belong here 234 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: and we're good, right, and until you get hit in 235 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: the face again, you're not being concerned that other people 236 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: might be getting hit in the face. That's kind of 237 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: like their problem. You know, it's a great irony, right, Oh, 238 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: we got a country back, we're free. And then you 239 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: go to another place and you don't want to be, 240 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: you know, a second class citizen or think of yourself 241 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: that way. Yeah, so I I can feel it. I 242 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: need to understand how you're burgeoning politicization, like you becoming 243 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: this political being you, being steeped in the values of 244 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: your community and and not feeling like so much of another, 245 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: but it starting to be aware that you're another. How 246 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 1: does that become comedy? You know, my my parents have 247 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: a good sense of humor, especially my mother. My mother 248 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: has a very dark sense of humor. I think it's 249 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: a way that she coped with a lot of loss 250 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: in her life or even the reality of being a 251 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: doctor as a young South Asian woman in India, South 252 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: Indian woman in conservative India in your early to mid 253 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: twenties and having your own practice, which you know, she 254 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: was a hero to so many young women. You know 255 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: what I mean, to sacrifice all that to come to 256 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: America to raise two kids and not be a doctor 257 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: that could break a lot of people. And my mom, 258 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: her sense of humor was definitely a way to cope, 259 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: and it was a way to cope with the loss 260 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: of parents and grandmother, you know, while she was in 261 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: another country. Was it was. It's a lot of that. 262 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: You know, a sense of humor must have some kind 263 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: of evolutionary advantage, because why else is it around? How 264 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: how else do you survive without the ability to to 265 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: laugh through painful things? Oh? I like that. So with 266 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: the nine eleven comedy, with a post nine eleven comedy 267 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: you were doing, what did it do for you? It 268 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: sounds like you had a sense of obligation for the 269 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: audience of how you were representing your people and what 270 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: you were using your time, energy and resources to talk about. 271 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: But did it help you in some way process when 272 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: you were experiencing as a brown person in America? Yeah, absolutely, 273 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: because it felt like people weren't laughing at me, but 274 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: they were laughing at the absurdity of what was happening 275 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: in the country. And you know, I also I worked 276 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: as an immigrant rights organizer in Seattle right out of college. 277 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: This is an organization that's dealing with post nine eleven hate, violence, detentions, 278 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 1: and deportations. You know, when you when you're talking to people, 279 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: particularly who are refugees and might have mental health issues, 280 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: you know, post traumatic stress, and they need help, You're 281 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 1: here hearing stuff you didn't expect to hear. You're hearing 282 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: a lot of violent things, You're hearing a lot of pain. 283 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 1: And you know, as much as I'm a child of immigrants, 284 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: I certainly didn't suffer the way. You know, a lot 285 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:14,880 Speaker 1: of the folks I spoke to stuff or whether it's 286 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 1: how they crossed or you know, what they dealt with 287 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: that got them into this country incredibly painful in comedy, 288 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: whether or not I talked special I never talked specifically 289 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: about cases, but whether I was talking about the immigration system, 290 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: whether I was talking about colonialism, whether I was talking 291 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 1: about just anything. It gave me a break from really 292 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: painful work. It was my self care and and that's 293 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: what I expected it to always be. I didn't assume 294 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 1: it would be a profession because at that point the 295 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,880 Speaker 1: reality was Mindy Killing had just like started the office, 296 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: and as these existed, but he was not that notable yet, 297 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: there's no reason it would ever be a thing. So 298 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 1: back then it was very like, I'm saying something because 299 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: of the impact it will make and to teach people. 300 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: I was very deliberate in that way. Now I don't. 301 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: I think that's a lot of pressure that doesn't necessarily 302 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:13,640 Speaker 1: lead to the best work. I think I I got 303 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: to a point where I'm like, I need to remember 304 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 1: what my goal is. I'm an entertainer. I entertain people. 305 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: If the work isn't good, it doesn't matter what I'm saying, 306 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: and the stuff I'm saying. It can't sound didactic. It 307 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: has to be what do you mean by didactic? It 308 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: can't be stuff that you know. I get called like 309 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 1: a professor doing comedy, which, you know, it feels good 310 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: in some way because it makes my parents feel good 311 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:38,199 Speaker 1: to hear the word professor next to my name, But 312 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: at the same time, it's you know, I don't want 313 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: to be teaching people. I want to be making them laugh. 314 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: And I want to be able to make anybody laugh, 315 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: you know, regardless that's the work, and you don't you 316 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: want to give them enough context in order to get 317 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: them to get the joke. But at the end of 318 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 1: the day, I'm a comedian and that's what I'm supposed 319 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 1: to be doing. And if at the end of the 320 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 1: day you said, you know, I didn't laugh, but I 321 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 1: learned a ton I failed. Um, that's not what what 322 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: what the job is. I think it alienates people when Oh, 323 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 1: this guy thinks he knows everything versus I like this guy. 324 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: I understand why he says what he says. I don't 325 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 1: agree with him, but I get why he says what 326 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 1: he says. I get why he has that perspective that's 327 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,360 Speaker 1: very different than funk. This guy telling me what I'm 328 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: doing is wrong. That's a different that's a different vibe. 329 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: I remember an earlier version of you. It probably was 330 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 1: the first time I ever met you and saw you 331 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: perform at the DC Comedy Festival. Yes, I'd heard of you, Barrettsonday, 332 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:42,919 Speaker 1: like we had heard of each other. Yea, No, we 333 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 1: there was. It was a small community of comics who 334 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: also read the newspaper. It was like, there's another one. 335 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: Oh my god, we are not alone. Yes, yes, um. 336 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 1: And so you had part of your routine then as 337 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: you took out, you had a prop Yes, had a 338 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 1: physical copy of the citizenship exam for the United States 339 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: of America, and you walk the audience through this process 340 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:12,360 Speaker 1: that most of us who were born here we had 341 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: no familiarity with, right, and that I had to see 342 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: people I I worked for, the community members I worked for, 343 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 1: I had to fill out shall we get around you see? 344 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: And had to like, what does this mean? Well, they're 345 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: asking you whether you're a Nazi. Uh, You're not a Nazi, 346 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,880 Speaker 1: so you can press no. It's strange that they would 347 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:44,719 Speaker 1: ask you. You're announce because if you were a Nazi, 348 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: no one clicks yes, like the whole thing is just 349 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 1: this absurd thing. I also remember feeling what I like 350 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: the technique of it. I'm like, oh, that's that's a 351 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,879 Speaker 1: clever use of a prop and it's this art of 352 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 1: facts of legitimacy. There was a part of it that 353 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: resonated with me because like, he's exposing something that most 354 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: of us don't know about, and he's almost literally putting 355 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: us in the shoes of someone who has this experience 356 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: to fight for the right to be something that most 357 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: of us are just born into and don't think of. 358 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: You made a different move with the problem with a Pooh. 359 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: My name is Harry kom Debola had a great career 360 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 1: laughter critical acclaim. I should be completely happy, but there's 361 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: still one man who haunts me a Pooh the Hassapima 362 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,920 Speaker 1: pedal on Please pay for your pirstases and get out 363 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,719 Speaker 1: and come again. What inspired you to make a film 364 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 1: about your problem with this Simson's character. I was on 365 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: w Comm Bill's old show Totally Biased. I was a 366 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 1: writer on that show, and he wanted his correspondence to 367 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,440 Speaker 1: do pieces that were personal to them. Mindy Kaling has 368 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: the first ever sitcom starring an Indian American This is 369 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 1: huge because growing up, I had no choice but to 370 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:04,119 Speaker 1: like this. A Pooh, a cartoon character voiced by Hank Azaria, 371 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: a white guy, a white guy doing an impression of 372 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 1: a white guy making fun of my father. I had 373 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 1: written a piece about Mindy Kaling getting a new show 374 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: and what that shows about the progress of representation. I 375 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,199 Speaker 1: was going through what progress we've made since then, what 376 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: it means for a South Asian and especially South Indian 377 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,640 Speaker 1: woman to have her own show. And when I talked 378 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: about a Pooh specifically, people lost it, like they really 379 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: reacted to it. And I was surprised because to me, 380 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: this seems kind of old, you know, like, I mean, 381 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 1: everybody knows that I Poo's racist, right, Like that's just obvious, 382 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 1: and like, you know, telling him out that he's like, 383 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 1: nobody thinks that you and your community have talked about 384 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,640 Speaker 1: this for the whole time the Simpsons have been has 385 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 1: been on the air. Nobody else thinks about it, you know, 386 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: And that kind of shipped me. I'm like, I guess not, 387 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,399 Speaker 1: I guess yeah, I guess that's right. Yeah, nobody gives 388 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: a ship we feel. How did I forget that? And 389 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: so I did the piece and it did really it 390 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: did really well, and there's definitely a bigger story here. 391 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 1: I didn't even scratch the surface, and so I pitched 392 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 1: it and True TV thought it was great, and that 393 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,880 Speaker 1: was that, you know, we started making this film. If 394 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 1: if someone hasn't, if this is someone's first time hearing 395 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: about this movie, what's your short description of what it is. Um, 396 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 1: it's a documentary about the impact the character of Pooh 397 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: on The Simpsons had, the stereotypical convenience store owner had 398 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,439 Speaker 1: and again, him being a convenience storener really isn't the issue. 399 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,119 Speaker 1: This isn't about being a working class South Asian person, 400 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: but it's how you're being depicted without dignity. Really, you know, 401 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: the character now is much more nuanced, but if you 402 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: see those early episodes, he's not a dignified character. And 403 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 1: nor people laughing because like this is a wonderful representation 404 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,959 Speaker 1: of the South Asian community. It was the fucking voice, 405 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: it was the caricature, and it was the thank you 406 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,679 Speaker 1: come again. Uh, you know that's what That's what was 407 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: funny about it. So it's about like what impact that had, 408 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: first of all on the South Asian community growing up 409 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: in this country. If that's all that represents you, there 410 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: wasn't anybody else. That's it. That's all you are is 411 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,160 Speaker 1: this character voiced by a white guy on the most 412 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: popular show in the country that children and adults watch. 413 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 1: And you happen to be an elementary middle school at 414 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,640 Speaker 1: the time. So that's that's part of it. The other part, 415 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,640 Speaker 1: the more important part, is the connection to the history 416 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: of poor minority representation and minstrelsy in this country, right, 417 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: and how our images have been used by the white 418 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:48,400 Speaker 1: mainstream media for laughs, for monetary game, for advertisement, which 419 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: is why we interview Whoopi Goldberg in the film, because 420 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: she collects this black Americano, which is all you know, 421 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 1: these these black faced images and advertisements, and she's you know, 422 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,479 Speaker 1: she told she collects them because she wants people not 423 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: to for get where they came from and that this 424 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: is part of the struggle. Don't pretend that like they 425 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: loved us from the beginning, we had to struggle to 426 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: get here, and this is the reminder. And after talking 427 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: to Whoopie, I realized that's what the documentary was. It's 428 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 1: the reminder, like, don't don't pretend this ship didn't happen. 429 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 1: This happened. This is what shaped us, and this is 430 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: what shaped lots of different communities. Right. Plus after Night eleven, 431 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 1: you're like, oh, they either see us as complete clowns 432 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: that aren't worth their time, or as terrorists. When you're scared, 433 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 1: you err on the side of terrorists. After the break, 434 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,639 Speaker 1: what Apoo tells us about cancel culture and who bears 435 00:25:46,680 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: the brunt of cultural change We've taken on in the 436 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,120 Speaker 1: second season to this show. This idea of how our 437 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 1: system of money finance, capitalism and I brought the way 438 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:29,919 Speaker 1: the economy works, pulls us apart. And you just added 439 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: another thought to that. For me, the case we're making 440 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: where here you've got a massive company monetizing the exclusion 441 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: of people, right, using people as means to sell on 442 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: the backs of the pain of a community they felt 443 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 1: was only good for that thing. That's kind of the 444 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,679 Speaker 1: the economic part of that story, which is interesting to me. 445 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: It's so fucked up. Capitalism is so funny because of 446 00:26:55,080 --> 00:27:00,080 Speaker 1: its ability mutate being racist and denying the voice is 447 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 1: of people of color so many different marginalized people was 448 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: profitable for many years, right, And this is what I'm 449 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: gonna say, is incredibly cynical. The great diversity we see 450 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 1: now in programming, it's it's you know, it's undeniably improved. 451 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 1: And part of it, I think is there's been work 452 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 1: done by so much organizing from various groups to talk 453 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,200 Speaker 1: about like we deserve fair representation, we deserve a chance. 454 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: I mean that work has been going on for decades, right, 455 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: That certainly has an impact. However, I think I think 456 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: that has the biggest impact is two things. One, they 457 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 1: found out we have money, and that's new, right, the 458 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 1: powers that be realized. You know, once once YouTube happens, 459 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:44,879 Speaker 1: Once all of a sudden you have like an Asian 460 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 1: vlogger with four billion followers. Oh ship, you know what 461 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 1: I mean. Like, they they found out that there are 462 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: markets they didn't think about before, and that becomes important 463 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 1: because the second reason, it's not three networks anymore. It's 464 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 1: not so like limited that you only have so many 465 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 1: slots to feel you're trying to get this huge share. 466 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: There aren't no more huge shares. You're trying to get 467 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 1: a slice of the pipe. It's not the biggest, just 468 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,440 Speaker 1: a slice, right, And that means all these like niches 469 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,879 Speaker 1: they become really valuable. So let's say you have a 470 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: show and the people that watch it are mostly like 471 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 1: Asian American folks. They love the show. This is a 472 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 1: huge show, and they're buying into it and stuff. It's 473 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: worth keeping on because you get that whole community potentially 474 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 1: in theory, you know at this point that segmentation becomes valuable. 475 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: And so as much as I realized that there's a 476 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 1: lot of work done to get us to this place, 477 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: I also don't think that it was goodwill. This is 478 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: about money. This is the fact that they want our money. 479 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: There's some people who would label the problem without Pooh 480 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: as just another example of political correctness and the new 481 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 1: version of that term cancel. Sure, yeah, oh yeah. A 482 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: lot of people say that because I haven't seen the film. 483 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 1: If they see the film, they're more likely to feel 484 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: mixed about it. There's gonna be people who hate it 485 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 1: regardless and and are gonna hate my points and are 486 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 1: just gonna repeat their points louder. But I think people 487 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 1: who do watch it and do like it. I've heard 488 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 1: enough people say it made me think about the fact 489 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: there were no other representations. I never thought about that, 490 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: as well as the fact, oh, I didn't know you 491 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 1: were a Simpsons fan. Like, this is coming from a 492 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: place of I've seen the show. I know the show, 493 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: I love the show. I was influenced by the show. 494 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 1: A Pooh is a complicated character because he's also really smart, 495 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: really funny, but he's built on a stereotype. They've they've 496 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: basically done all this work to beef up something that 497 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: was built on a really weak foundation, which is like racism, right, 498 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 1: and they've made him a really interesting character. But again, 499 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: no one is laughing saying, God, I love the complexity 500 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: of a Pooh. You know, part of it is that 501 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,240 Speaker 1: smarter than a Homer, and some of the last at 502 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: Homer's expense, but without the accent, you think that hits 503 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: so hard, Like we all know comics. You're like, ah, 504 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: that was just the voice. The impression did most of 505 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: the work there. There was no joke there or heavy 506 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: use of profanity or extra physicality to try to sell it. 507 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: There was no joke. Just get it just over the line. 508 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: It's lazy, Yeah, it's lazy comedy. What stood out to 509 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,239 Speaker 1: me is I did watch the film and I I 510 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: thought I saw where it was going, right. I thought, Okay, 511 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: this isn't just someone popping off on social media. To 512 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: get rid of this character. Like you said, you were 513 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 1: an actual fan. You understood the universe of the Simpsons 514 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: much more deeply than a random critic. And most significantly, 515 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: you weren't asking for them to like get rid of 516 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: the show or necessarily even the character. That's correct. You 517 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: weren't asking for it to be canceled. So for me 518 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: for someone to call it cancel culture, they really didn't 519 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,480 Speaker 1: see the movie. Well, everyone's saying I kill to Pooh. 520 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 1: Pooh's dead, And first they never said he was dead. 521 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: They never said they were killing off the character. And 522 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 1: the reason you think he's dead is because you don't 523 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: watch the show. The only thing I might have said, 524 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: I think in the beginning of the movie is that 525 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: let's see if we can get hankers Area to stop 526 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: doing the voice. What doesn't mean kill the character. You know, Hell, 527 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, even if he still 528 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 1: did the voice, I wouldn't be that piste off because 529 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: to be honest, even when I was making the film, 530 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 1: I wasn't that piste off. I had to take the 531 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 1: old anger and re channel it. So it's like, this 532 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 1: is how I felt, this is what all of us felt, 533 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 1: and for the people who say, well, you should have 534 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 1: covered this forever. Why are you talking about this out again? 535 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: They didn't let us talk to five years ago? When 536 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 1: did you want me to make this documentary when I 537 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: was eight? But there was no way to do it, 538 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 1: Like that's it, that's so so fast forward. Hankers Area 539 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 1: issues a kind of statement, and what is your take 540 00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: on how he ultimately responded to the chat challenge that 541 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 1: you laid out the the opportunity you may have given out. 542 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: You know, I have a lot of complicated films, and 543 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:07,960 Speaker 1: I think i'll probably lay if it's okay, lay them 544 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 1: all out now, because I think I've laid pieces them out. 545 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 1: First of all, I think it's amazing because at the 546 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 1: end of the day, I wanted the film to teach people. 547 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: That's what this film actually was. It was an opportunity 548 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 1: to educate people about, you know, the experience of others 549 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 1: and in the history of this country and of film 550 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 1: and representation all this stuff. So the fact that he 551 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 1: you know, got so much out of it, and it 552 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: got him to a point where I don't want to 553 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 1: do this voice anymore. It doesn't feel like it's good 554 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 1: for people. And the fact, if you know, he was 555 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 1: on Dak Shepherd's podcast and he talks about film, and 556 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 1: these discussions helped him open his mind towards thinking about 557 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: the about racism in this country, in addition to everything 558 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: that happened after the film, which is unrelated to the film, 559 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 1: but which is police brutality and injustice, and like all 560 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: of a sudden, it seemed like it moved him and 561 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 1: he started going to workshops and he started educating himself 562 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,680 Speaker 1: and wants to be an ally in the movement. And 563 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 1: hearing those things, it makes me feel really good because 564 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: that's what I hoped would happen to most people who 565 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: watched the film, but at the bare minum, it happened 566 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 1: for the guy I was talking about the most in 567 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 1: relation to the character, which is the guy who does 568 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: the voice. Um, you're certainly that this the Simpsons writers 569 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 1: doubled down in different ways, but Hank, you could tell 570 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 1: this is somebody who learned something, and he's talking about 571 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 1: what he learned and and and apologizing to all Indian 572 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 1: people or saying I feel like I should. I think 573 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 1: that's fine. But more than that, the fact that you're 574 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 1: serving as an example of growth and learning is incredibly important, 575 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 1: particularly for white people to say like, it's okay to 576 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: learn stuff, It's okay to learn and grow. I was 577 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 1: the voice of this good and for people of color, 578 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 1: it's a sign of good faith. Like this person. Actually, 579 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 1: you know, should he have done the interview with me 580 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 1: for the film. I think he should have. It probably 581 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: would have been in his best interest too, to be 582 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,800 Speaker 1: perfectly onest, just thinking about the process. But he wasn't 583 00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 1: ready and he eventually did get there, and that's right. 584 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,240 Speaker 1: And so that's kind of where I've left it publicly. 585 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 1: The one thing I'll add that I've thought about a 586 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: lot recently. I love the fact that this dude is 587 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 1: getting credit for growing, and I think it's great that 588 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 1: he's serving as an ally. But the one thing I've noticed, 589 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 1: and in many pieces I've seen, is that he rarely 590 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:24,799 Speaker 1: mentions the film or me. And there is something to 591 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,840 Speaker 1: be said about the work of people of color being 592 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:33,400 Speaker 1: ignored and us praising the white guy. And it's not 593 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 1: to say that he shouldn't be praised, and it's not 594 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,920 Speaker 1: to say that I need to be elevated, but it 595 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 1: is to say there is a legacy of that. You know, 596 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 1: the people that do the work are the people that 597 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,839 Speaker 1: teach you, and honestly, in the process of learning, we 598 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 1: end up hurting people to learn. It's the one of 599 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,320 Speaker 1: the parts of of having privilege. I don't think we 600 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,360 Speaker 1: talked enough about it's funked up. But the idea of 601 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 1: learning doesn't come without someone else taking It comes at 602 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: someone else's expand it comes at someone else's time. And 603 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 1: so as a man and as assist dude, as a 604 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 1: straight dude, I certainly, I certainly have walked on people 605 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 1: to learn and have had to be taught by people 606 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: who were caring and loved me enough and saw enough 607 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 1: potential in me and in society to say, I need 608 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 1: to tell you something. But that's work, that's labor on 609 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,919 Speaker 1: that and on their part, that's pain on their part 610 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 1: that they had to deal with because I didn't know 611 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 1: any better, and they deserve the credit. So what I'm 612 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: saying is, if if you're gonna do all this stuff, 613 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: and if you're going to to talk about your growth, 614 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: you've got to be explicit about what you learn and 615 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,279 Speaker 1: who taught it to you and how you got there. 616 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,760 Speaker 1: Because this wasn't just magic. When you talk about black 617 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 1: lives matter, you better fucking talk about like Patrice Colors, 618 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:55,120 Speaker 1: Alicia Garza Opel to Mattie because they fucking started that movement. 619 00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:02,080 Speaker 1: So this growth that you have experience yourself, You've talked 620 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 1: a bit about what you would have done differently, you 621 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 1: know the spots that you didn't see and acknowledging you 622 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 1: know Hank's growth. It's to me it feels like a 623 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 1: specific example of a larger thing we're all trying to do, 624 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,960 Speaker 1: and certainly way we're trying to approach with this season 625 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 1: around division, big capital d big quotation marks around it. 626 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,799 Speaker 1: But you were a part of someone else's growth and 627 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 1: they are part of yours. Yes, without a doubt. I'm curious, 628 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,880 Speaker 1: how what have you learned about reaching people on the 629 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,640 Speaker 1: other side of something from where you sit? Well, first 630 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:47,040 Speaker 1: of all, I learned that making art is hard, and 631 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 1: sometimes you make mistakes and say the wrong thing, do 632 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,840 Speaker 1: the wrong thing. And I know we love to criticize, 633 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:56,279 Speaker 1: and Twitter is great at that right and and it's 634 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 1: not to say criticism is wrong, but I think there 635 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,839 Speaker 1: needs to be a degree of humility of what would 636 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 1: it be like if I had to make something? What 637 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 1: if I had to be in the position of making 638 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,399 Speaker 1: all this what I funk up, and so I think 639 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,840 Speaker 1: I have a greater humility of like, if you're going 640 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,040 Speaker 1: to criticize something now that there are people involved and 641 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 1: they make mistakes and it's not always for the worst reasons. 642 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,360 Speaker 1: And so I think it's taught me that, like wanting 643 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:25,399 Speaker 1: to lead with love, it's okay to express anger, it's 644 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,879 Speaker 1: okay also to lead with love, and to know that 645 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,279 Speaker 1: people make mistakes and are trying to grow from them, 646 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,120 Speaker 1: and it's not always you know, the most cynical take. 647 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:37,919 Speaker 1: And there is stuff that I have a tough time 648 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:41,600 Speaker 1: for giving myself for and that I'm learning to grow from. 649 00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: But there that doesn't mean that the things that are 650 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,160 Speaker 1: wrong in the world that I hate I can't talk 651 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 1: about them. Just because I've done wrong. Doesn't mean that 652 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: I accept wrong and I am allowed to get to 653 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,840 Speaker 1: lead with love. But at the same time, love doesn't 654 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,799 Speaker 1: mean I'm not angry. Love doesn't mean I'm not passionate. 655 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,320 Speaker 1: Love doesn't mean that I'm not allowed to break something 656 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,319 Speaker 1: down because it's wrong and say it. Love means that 657 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,279 Speaker 1: I can do those things and support the people who 658 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,759 Speaker 1: have been wronged, and maybe even support the people who 659 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:18,439 Speaker 1: have done the wronging you're a new father, yeah, and 660 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,279 Speaker 1: I'd love to know. Um, I've seen some of the 661 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,359 Speaker 1: videos you're making, you know, in terms of your your 662 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 1: social justice romper room and trying to prevent kids from becoming, 663 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,359 Speaker 1: in your words, demons, which who could be against that? 664 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 1: But what do you want your child to understand about 665 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,520 Speaker 1: what it means to be a citizen in the fullest 666 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,880 Speaker 1: sense of that word, that you are a citizen of 667 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 1: the world. First, to me, I think the local and 668 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,319 Speaker 1: the global are the most important things. It's a weird 669 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,880 Speaker 1: thing because the local is who's in front of you, 670 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 1: who needs help, who what what's right in your line 671 00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,239 Speaker 1: of vision. Then the global the fact that all human 672 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 1: beings are created equal. That means human rights, however we 673 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,000 Speaker 1: define that has to trump whatever rights we have as 674 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 1: citizens of a nation. And the fact that so much 675 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,279 Speaker 1: has been denied as a result of colonialism and and 676 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:14,759 Speaker 1: and the systems that have allowed for things to be 677 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,719 Speaker 1: stuff the way they are, Like, we have to account 678 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,960 Speaker 1: for the global. We are not isolated. I don't know 679 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:22,960 Speaker 1: what age my child will have to get to for 680 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,640 Speaker 1: me to explain that. I think we're going to focus 681 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:31,880 Speaker 1: on the local, sharing, helping, being nice words meaning things 682 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,080 Speaker 1: and the global I'm I'm assuming what middle school on 683 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 1: will probably get into some of that. But it's hard 684 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,880 Speaker 1: because I really, both me and my partner feel so 685 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:45,000 Speaker 1: strongly in the values around justice that we feel, and 686 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,120 Speaker 1: you know, we want our kid obviously to have those values. 687 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,600 Speaker 1: And at the same time, you don't want to push 688 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 1: too hard. If you push too hard, you get a problem. Boy, 689 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,239 Speaker 1: I don't want that. Last thing I need is a 690 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,880 Speaker 1: nerd to raise a bully. That's not what I was. 691 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,440 Speaker 1: And I think you've got to have enough respect for 692 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:15,359 Speaker 1: them as as a human two figure things out, right, 693 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,319 Speaker 1: you you set them up and they'll figure things out. 694 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,239 Speaker 1: You know. It's something I have to remind myself constantly, Like, 695 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,719 Speaker 1: you know, my child is not the child of immigrants. 696 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,800 Speaker 1: I was the child of of immigrants. Their experience is 697 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:35,600 Speaker 1: going to be extremely different. You know, I don't know 698 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,600 Speaker 1: what it's like to not have that experience, and they're 699 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,839 Speaker 1: not going to know what it's like to have my experience. 700 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:46,920 Speaker 1: That's just how everything works. This is tricky, and you know, 701 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,399 Speaker 1: I need to respect the fact that Pie's his own being, 702 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 1: you know, mm hmm. I will listen to this at 703 00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:55,840 Speaker 1: some point, and this will remind me. I hope he 704 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,440 Speaker 1: brings this podcast up at some point. It would be 705 00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:00,839 Speaker 1: my great honor if I could serve as a moment 706 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:02,800 Speaker 1: of come up in between your son and he was 707 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,280 Speaker 1: he shoves this episode of this podcast into your face. 708 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,040 Speaker 1: But Dad, you told Baritone that you would give me 709 00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,480 Speaker 1: room to grow and be my own person. Don't you 710 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:16,440 Speaker 1: understand it was on brand at the time, Son saying 711 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:23,560 Speaker 1: that was on brand. Marxism was a brand at the time. Son, Harie, 712 00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:28,920 Speaker 1: thank you so much, my friend. This has been a joyful, 713 00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:35,200 Speaker 1: heart opening, love leading conversation with you. I really appreciate it. 714 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:38,279 Speaker 1: You are my friend and brother. We've known each other 715 00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:40,919 Speaker 1: a long time. Your success is my success, and I'm 716 00:41:40,920 --> 00:42:03,279 Speaker 1: so happy you have this podcast. Ye. So how you 717 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,720 Speaker 1: feeling now? I mean, I'll tell you how I'm feeling. 718 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:11,080 Speaker 1: I'm feeling like I just had the most smooth, delicious, 719 00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:16,000 Speaker 1: just incredible nightcap this season could have ever asked for. 720 00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,359 Speaker 1: I really hope you enjoyed that as much as I 721 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:25,320 Speaker 1: clearly did. Hari Kondabolu is a human in this divided country. 722 00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,960 Speaker 1: He's faced adversity, but he hasn't let that stop him 723 00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,920 Speaker 1: from believing in the bigger picture, and I know he 724 00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:35,680 Speaker 1: will insist that he's here to entertain first, and if 725 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,160 Speaker 1: people learn something, that's up in them and that yeah, 726 00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:43,480 Speaker 1: Harry whatever. Based on his experience, based on the jobs 727 00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,400 Speaker 1: he's had, the graduate degree he holds him clearly, the 728 00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,840 Speaker 1: way he sees the world, Harrek can't help it. He's 729 00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:54,200 Speaker 1: helping us citizen. I hope this is an inspiration for 730 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:58,759 Speaker 1: you that there are so many ways to citizen. It 731 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:02,279 Speaker 1: can be activism, it can be researched, it can be 732 00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:05,880 Speaker 1: out in the streets protest. It can be policy work 733 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:10,759 Speaker 1: or comedy. We can all choose to lead with love 734 00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:14,359 Speaker 1: and kindness wherever we are, So do me a fame. 735 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:19,120 Speaker 1: There is a lot going on in the world. No 736 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:21,440 Speaker 1: one can handle it all by themselves, and we're not 737 00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:24,520 Speaker 1: supposed to. No one can get it right all the time, 738 00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:29,640 Speaker 1: and we're not supposed to be gentle with yourself. We're 739 00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:34,279 Speaker 1: in a constant cycle. We learn, we make mistakes, we 740 00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:39,520 Speaker 1: forgive ourselves, we move forward. Do this last thing with me. 741 00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:49,080 Speaker 1: Let's take a breath together. Now, why don't you go 742 00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:52,240 Speaker 1: ahead and tell like everybody you know about this podcast. Seriously, 743 00:43:52,280 --> 00:44:03,160 Speaker 1: just tell everybody you know, appreciate you, and now time 744 00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:08,000 Speaker 1: for some actions. When have you grown from a mistake 745 00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:12,279 Speaker 1: and did anyone else help you with that growth? When 746 00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:16,319 Speaker 1: have you helped others grow to be more informed? I'm 747 00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:20,840 Speaker 1: asking you to tune into Harry watch The Problem with Apou, 748 00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,319 Speaker 1: his film streaming on HBO Max, and check out his 749 00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:29,600 Speaker 1: Netflix special Warren your Relatives. Finally, I want you to 750 00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:35,040 Speaker 1: do something around immigration and refugee rights. It's where Harri 751 00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:37,480 Speaker 1: got his career started, and you heard so much of 752 00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,680 Speaker 1: his passion. I asked him what group would you have 753 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,960 Speaker 1: me send people to, and he said right sis R 754 00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:48,600 Speaker 1: A I c E S Texas dot org. Their website 755 00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,360 Speaker 1: has so much you can do to help the people 756 00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:55,240 Speaker 1: who are literally trying to become citizens, who are sacrificing 757 00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,560 Speaker 1: so much to be in this country and putting up 758 00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:01,319 Speaker 1: with so much in that journey. You can extend a 759 00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:06,440 Speaker 1: humanizing hand to our fellow human beings. If you take 760 00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,839 Speaker 1: any of these actions, be sure to brag online about it. 761 00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:13,400 Speaker 1: If you're super citizen skills, use the hashtag how to citizen. 762 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:16,600 Speaker 1: You can also send us general or specific feedback and 763 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:20,640 Speaker 1: ideas to comments at how to citizen dot com and 764 00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,400 Speaker 1: speaking of that domain name, check out How does Citizen 765 00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,399 Speaker 1: dot com to sign up for our newsletter, learn about 766 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:30,520 Speaker 1: upcoming guests, and way more ways to upgrade your Citizen game. 767 00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:33,480 Speaker 1: If you like the show, please spread the word. If 768 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:37,160 Speaker 1: you don't, definitely just keep it to yourself. How Does Citizen? 769 00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:39,560 Speaker 1: With Bartune Day is a production of I Heart Radio 770 00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:43,719 Speaker 1: Podcasts and Dust Like Productions. Our executive producers are Me 771 00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:48,920 Speaker 1: barrattun Day Thurston, Elizabeth Stewart, and Misha Yusef. Our producers 772 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:52,720 Speaker 1: are Stephanie Cone and Ali kilt. Kelly Prime is our editor, 773 00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:57,440 Speaker 1: Valentino Rivera is our engineer, and Sam Paulson is our apprentice. 774 00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:02,120 Speaker 1: Original music by Andrew Eben. This episode was produced and 775 00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:05,680 Speaker 1: sound designed by Ali Kilts. Special thanks to Joel Smith 776 00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:06,640 Speaker 1: from iHeart Radio.