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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, where we

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Speaker 1: discussed all things mental health, personal development, and all the

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Speaker 1: small decisions we can make to become the best possible

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Speaker 1: versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy Harden Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. To get more information

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Speaker 1: and resources, visit the website at Therapy for Black Girls

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Speaker 1: dot com. And while I hope you love listening to

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Speaker 1: and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to

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Speaker 1: be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental

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Speaker 1: health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me

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Speaker 1: for session one of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast.

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Speaker 1: The month of April marks a celebration of lots of

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Speaker 1: mental health awareness campaigns. This month, you'll see a lot

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Speaker 1: about sexual assault, stress management, and autism, which is the

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Speaker 1: topic of today's episode. Today, I'm joined by doctor Cindy Graham.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Cindy is a licensed psychologist who practices in the

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Speaker 1: state of Maryland. She received her bachelor's degree in psychology

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Speaker 1: from Princeton University and her master's and pH d in

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Speaker 1: clinical psychology from Louisiana State University. She has trained at

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Speaker 1: the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine and the Kennedy

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Speaker 1: Krieger Institute in the treatment of severe behavior problems such

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Speaker 1: as aggression, property destruction, and self injury in kids with

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Speaker 1: developmental disabilities. While at l s U, Doctor Cindy helped

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Speaker 1: to develop tests to diagnose autism in children and adults.

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Speaker 1: She has also written a chapter on intellectual disabilities in

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Speaker 1: the book The Practice of Child Therapy and has been

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Speaker 1: published in several journals, including the Journal of Neurology on

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Speaker 1: topics pertaining to childhood disorders and severe behavior problems. As

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Speaker 1: a Haitian American, Dr Cindy has a strong passion for

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Speaker 1: increasing awareness of and access to psychological services in Haiti,

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Speaker 1: and she recently founded the Brighter Hope Wellness Center. The

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Speaker 1: mission of the center is to provide multidisciplinary treatment for children, teens,

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Speaker 1: and adults with a particular focus on autism. Brighter Hope

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Speaker 1: Wellness Center brings together different treatment approaches including psychotherapy, speech

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Speaker 1: and language, occupational therapy, family therapy, and art therapy. Under

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Speaker 1: one roof Dr Cindy and I discussed some of the

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Speaker 1: research surrounding the cause of autism spectrum disorder or a

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Speaker 1: s D. Parents should be on the lookout for in

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Speaker 1: terms of symptoms, strategies used to help children and adults

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Speaker 1: with a s D, and her it's about the depiction

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Speaker 1: of a s D in pop culture. If you learn

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Speaker 1: something new or here's something in the episode that you

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Speaker 1: like to share with others, please share it on Twitter

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Speaker 1: using the hashtag tb G in session. Here's our conversation.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us today, Cindy, Thank

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Speaker 1: you Joy so much for having me. I'm very happy

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Speaker 1: to have you here today UM to talk about autism

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Speaker 1: spectrum disorders, or a s D as it's called UM,

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Speaker 1: and I think it is a really important topic for

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Speaker 1: us to continue to discuss. You know, you see a

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Speaker 1: lot in you know, in the news and the media

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Speaker 1: about it, but I do think it's really important for

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Speaker 1: people to get really accurate, good information. I'm happy you

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Speaker 1: were able to join us to do this today. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much. I'm I am excited to talk about

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Speaker 1: it and definitely especially lately, you know, we are hearing

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Speaker 1: more about autism in the news with you know everything

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Speaker 1: with a recent school shooting and UM, you know that

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Speaker 1: tends to autism spectrum disorder tends to fly a lot

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Speaker 1: more around situations like these. So I'm glad to try

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Speaker 1: to you know, clear up any kind of misconceptions about

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Speaker 1: what autism spectrum disorder, what a s D is and isn't. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So if we could start by just talking about what

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Speaker 1: the most current literature suggests about what causes a s D. Yes, so,

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Speaker 1: and there's been a lot of controversy with respect to

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Speaker 1: a s D and what causes it. UM And when

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Speaker 1: we really look at the most objective UM research studies,

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Speaker 1: when we look at the literature, really what we find

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Speaker 1: is that there is not necessarily any one UM set cause.

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Speaker 1: So I know, I can uh, you know, I can

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Speaker 1: probably catch a lot from people the non vaccinating uh

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Speaker 1: factions or the side of of of autism spectrum disorders.

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Speaker 1: But UM, really, when we look at the literature very closely,

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Speaker 1: and they've looked at broad based studies that really what

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Speaker 1: we're looking at is that autism a s D is

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Speaker 1: uh basically a group of disorders that have very common

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Speaker 1: behavior behavioral symptoms. UM. It is neurological in nature, so

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Speaker 1: there is something that does happen to brain functioning, brain

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Speaker 1: structure that then causes UM this presentation of symptoms. But

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Speaker 1: basically in terms of like pointing to anyone vaccine um

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Speaker 1: poor vaccines in general. Really, the the the reputable research

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Speaker 1: just can't point to that as being a factor. Okay.

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Speaker 1: And then the name autism spectrum disorder is kind of

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Speaker 1: new rights and the like called what was it called before?

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Speaker 1: So it previously was called several several different disorders, so

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Speaker 1: it was called autistic disorder, Asperger's disorder. There was also

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Speaker 1: then childhood disintegrative disorder RETS disorder, and then pervasive developmental

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Speaker 1: disorder not otherwise specified a mouthful, but it was actually

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Speaker 1: five separate kinds of disorders that were kind of all

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Speaker 1: under this one heading. And so with the latest revision

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Speaker 1: of our diagnostic manual, they really moved more towards the

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Speaker 1: idea of which we had been seeing for a long time.

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Speaker 1: So I've been fortunate to be practicing in this field

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Speaker 1: of a s D for twenty years now, twenty years

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Speaker 1: this summer. Actually that um, really it's there's such a

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Speaker 1: wide range in presentation, everything from individuals who are described

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Speaker 1: as basically low functioning, meaning they are nonverbal, they're not

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Speaker 1: able to speak words, they may use communication boards, um,

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Speaker 1: they may be of a lower I Q all the

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Speaker 1: way up to individuals that we consider high functioning, which

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Speaker 1: means they're very highly verbal, average to above average intelligence UM.

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Speaker 1: And so basically this latest revision just just provided UM

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Speaker 1: a label that more accurately reflects what we already knew

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Speaker 1: to be true in the field. The downside being that

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Speaker 1: UM so there was a little bit of for individuals

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Speaker 1: diagnosed with Asperger's disorder that was definitely the one that

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Speaker 1: was associated the most with high functioning abilities with that

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Speaker 1: didn't have UM the any language delay. So for a

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Speaker 1: lot of individuals and and parents of kids who had

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Speaker 1: kids diagnosed with Asperger's disorder Asperger syndrome, they felt basically

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Speaker 1: cheated UM because this Aspergers now no longer exists in

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Speaker 1: our diagnostic manual. It's just autism spectrum disorders. But ultimately, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a movement to better reflect what UM, what we

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Speaker 1: already knew in the field that there's a wide variety

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Speaker 1: in UM in what you're gonna see in terms of

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Speaker 1: autism spectrum and Cindy, my understanding is that one of

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Speaker 1: the best treatments for a s Z is early intervention.

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Speaker 1: UM so can you tell and you know, I even know,

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Speaker 1: like with my own two little ones. You know, like

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Speaker 1: they spot very early with the pediatrition asking about certain

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Speaker 1: signs and is mayba doing certain kinds of things and

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Speaker 1: so can you share some of the symptoms that parents

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Speaker 1: should be on the lookout for and how early they

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Speaker 1: would even be on the lookout for some of these things? Sure?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely so really UM, at this point in time, we start, uh,

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Speaker 1: we start evaluating for it and for anyone who does

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Speaker 1: have a child. And when you hear the pediatrician asking about, okay,

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Speaker 1: does your child look at you? Um, well, and this

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Speaker 1: is starting as young as like six months, is something

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Speaker 1: that we would These are things that we expect children

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Speaker 1: and start to do. UM, that they're they're starting to

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Speaker 1: look at you, They're starting to look at other things

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Speaker 1: that you're looking at in the room. And then as

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Speaker 1: they progress older, we start to look at certain language markers.

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Speaker 1: So in session, what I tend to ask parents is

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Speaker 1: um or is your child did your child starts speaking

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Speaker 1: single words by one, two words sentences simple sentences obviously

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Speaker 1: by two, and then three words by three. Um. So

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Speaker 1: those are some of the very earliest markers, UM, that

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Speaker 1: you want to look at, especially in the infants, to toddler.

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Speaker 1: As they continue to progress, you want to start to

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Speaker 1: see kids engage in imaginative or pretend to play. So

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Speaker 1: really by you know, a year and a half, certainly um,

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Speaker 1: by two years that they are able to take common

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Speaker 1: household objects and pretend that there's something else. So for example,

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Speaker 1: taking a brush and pretending that it's a microphone um,

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Speaker 1: or taking a banana and pretending like it's a telephone. Um. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, building a fort out of blankets. These are

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Speaker 1: things that you we want to start seeing children do

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Speaker 1: by about two years old. UM. Other behaviors that we

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Speaker 1: start to see that um that are not necessarily so

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Speaker 1: much about deficits but basically are about additional behaviors would

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Speaker 1: be UM some of the more repetitive, repetitive behaviors, or

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Speaker 1: really particular interests in something. So the repetitive behaviors can

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Speaker 1: be anything from a child who is rocking back and forth,

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Speaker 1: and there's a certain level of normalcy for children to

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Speaker 1: do this because it is stimulating, but for a kid

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Speaker 1: who may be on the autism spectrum, they will have

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Speaker 1: multiple symptoms across these different areas, so repetitive behaviors, they

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Speaker 1: might be very much obsessed with things that spin or

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Speaker 1: with lights. They may be very sensitive to sounds. Two lights, UM, vacuums,

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Speaker 1: coffee UH, coffee grinders UH. Those are some common things

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Speaker 1: that kids who are on the autism spectrums start to

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Speaker 1: present with very early on. UM. And then if they're

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Speaker 1: not really engaging in play with other kids UM, as

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Speaker 1: you would expect. So when kids are basically under about

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Speaker 1: three years old, there isn't necessarily a lot of collaborative play.

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Speaker 1: We call it more parallel play, but they're they're in

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Speaker 1: the same space. They may be playing with two different things,

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Speaker 1: but they're allowing each other to be in in in

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Speaker 1: close proximity. And then as they get older three four five,

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Speaker 1: we want to see more collaborative play where they're they're

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Speaker 1: they'reing together with the same item, UM, taking turns and sharing.

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Speaker 1: And so if your child isn't doing that, UM, that's

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Speaker 1: certainly a marker UM. But but early on in infancy

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Speaker 1: we are looking at UM more of the whereas the

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Speaker 1: eye contact, how do they respond when they are being touched? UH,

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Speaker 1: Kids who are on the autism spectrum we will tend

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Speaker 1: to kind of pull away or react in just a

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Speaker 1: different kind of way UM than neurotypical kids. It sounds

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Speaker 1: like there are a lot of different factors that you'd

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Speaker 1: be looking at. Here is indy, Um, what all is

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Speaker 1: included in like an evaluation? Like how would this diagnosis

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Speaker 1: actually be? Me? Yes, so it it comes from UH.

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Speaker 1: We look at lots of different areas, and there are

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Speaker 1: different professionals that can do this. So UM anyone from

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Speaker 1: like a psychologist such as myself to developmental pediatricians. UH.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes we actually find that kids who are showing a

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Speaker 1: language delay are evaluated by a speach and language pathologist

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Speaker 1: or UM if they're having some I forgot to mention

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Speaker 1: gross motor concerns. So there can be gross motor delays

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Speaker 1: UM with UH, with abilities to like finance, gross motor

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Speaker 1: I should say, with picking up objects or walking running,

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Speaker 1: Those are indicators. So sometimes it comes from other professionals

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Speaker 1: like speech and language OT, but from a psychologist and

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Speaker 1: a developmental pediatrician, what we would administer would be there

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Speaker 1: are several different batteries that we can use. UM beyond well, sorry,

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Speaker 1: let me back up. So actually pediatricians are often the

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Speaker 1: first line UM, and so at the six months check up,

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Speaker 1: at the year check up, at the eighteen months check up. Uh,

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Speaker 1: if you fill out these kind of longer questionnaires. That's

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Speaker 1: what these questionnaires are looking at. Their looking to screen

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Speaker 1: for autism spectrum disorders. And then um, if there is

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Speaker 1: enough enough concern there, then that pediatrician often will then

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Speaker 1: recommend a developmental pediatrician or psychologist who will then uh

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Speaker 1: uh kind of bring you in for an hour to

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Speaker 1: two hour session in terms of the parents and ask

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Speaker 1: them lots of questions more in detailed questions about how um,

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Speaker 1: everything from the pregnancy to the birth delivery, uh and

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Speaker 1: then all of the milestones, uh, in greater detail. So

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Speaker 1: they're gonna be You're gonna be asked, you know, how

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Speaker 1: how did your child crawl? How old were they when

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Speaker 1: they were calling potty training? How did that go? Um?

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Speaker 1: Do they seem to be obsessed or stuck on particular

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Speaker 1: interests or certain things? Do they like to watch a

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Speaker 1: scene over and over and over again? Um? And and

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Speaker 1: and it's it can be quite lengthy. It can be

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Speaker 1: grueling a little bit for parents, but it's it's very

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Speaker 1: much worth it because it is important uh to start

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Speaker 1: the help early. Because we really find that when you

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Speaker 1: are able to catch kids early, so younger than three

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Speaker 1: years old, they have the best trajectory in terms of

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Speaker 1: outcome uh to where they have later on in their

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Speaker 1: teen years, adult years, a more mild presentation for their

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Speaker 1: for their variant of a s D. Okay, Cindy. So

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm thinking about like a three year old

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Speaker 1: and thinking like what kinds of things would you be

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Speaker 1: doing with them even terms of the attention and you

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Speaker 1: know their ability to do different things. So what kinds

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Speaker 1: of strategies would you be using to help someone who's

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Speaker 1: been diagnosed with Yeah, certainly. And so that's also why

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Speaker 1: the the evaluation portion is really important because we also

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Speaker 1: do an observation, so we really watch and see um

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Speaker 1: where So, especially for the particular form of therapy that

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Speaker 1: I use, applied behavior analysis, UH, we really look at

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Speaker 1: what the child's strengths are, what the child's deficits are,

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Speaker 1: and then we build the treatment plan from that. So

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Speaker 1: you know, if we have a child who hits, who

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Speaker 1: gets very angry and frustrated and hits others or throw things,

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Speaker 1: throws things, um, and they have a very limited vocabulary,

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Speaker 1: what we're gonna do is we're gonna work on functional

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Speaker 1: communication training, meaning we're gonna work on helping them develop

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Speaker 1: ways to communicate, everything from increasing verbalizations uh vocalizations to

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Speaker 1: possibly teaching sign language if they are not uh developmentally

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Speaker 1: able to use UM spoken word everything to communication boards. UH.

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Speaker 1: So that's one example. UM we do. I we do

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Speaker 1: do things like helping with transitions. That's a common issue

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Speaker 1: that we find with kids diagnosed with a s D

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Speaker 1: that they will have a tantrum when they when you

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Speaker 1: know you have to turn off the TV and head

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Speaker 1: out to go pick up a sibling from school. UM.

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Speaker 1: So we will work with kids and teaching them how

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Speaker 1: to tolerate transitions. We do a lot with reinforcers and motivation,

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Speaker 1: so we use things like sometimes candy if need be. UM.

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Speaker 1: We will use different toys and prizes, and it's again

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Speaker 1: catered towards the child. So we will actually do what

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Speaker 1: we call a preference assessment to see what types of

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Speaker 1: things the child likes, and we look at the different modalities.

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Speaker 1: We look at things that they can play with their hands,

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Speaker 1: things that they can touch, things that they can um

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Speaker 1: watch and look at things that they can smell and

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Speaker 1: use those to reward the appropriate behaviors. UM. We also

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Speaker 1: do them in naturalistic settings, so we take advantage of

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Speaker 1: basically incidental learning, so what we call it UM, and

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Speaker 1: we UM capitalize on naturalistic settings of play opportunities. And

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Speaker 1: again it's it's a lot of reinforcement based. So when

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Speaker 1: they engage in a behavior that we like, we go

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Speaker 1: ahead and give them the reinforcer. They're really happy, and

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Speaker 1: then they're motivated to do it again because they got

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Speaker 1: something out of it. And UM. Yeah, you basically train

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Speaker 1: up the skills and then you apply them. We generalize them,

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Speaker 1: so then we apply them across different scenarios. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: you're kind of going to where the charity is in

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Speaker 1: the natural environment and you know, helping them kind of

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Speaker 1: learn some of these and certainly group work as well,

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Speaker 1: UM uh group work and that allows um, even for

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Speaker 1: younger kids to have that parallel play with other kids. UM.

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Speaker 1: Group work as especially helpful with children and teens UM

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Speaker 1: as well, so that they can actually practice in real

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Speaker 1: time UH some of the social skills UH techniques and

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Speaker 1: recommendations that we make for them. UM. And so that

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Speaker 1: group work is also a very valuable tool. Okay. And

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Speaker 1: so I'm wondering, Cindy, UM you know, and I know

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Speaker 1: that Asperger's is no longer like the technical classification. But

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Speaker 1: I am wondering if because I'm just thinking about like

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Speaker 1: people who may not have been diagnosed younger, right, like

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Speaker 1: then you know, some of the signs may have been missing,

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Speaker 1: or if they were more UM categorized with like as Bergers,

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Speaker 1: you know, because maybe they were so intelligent, people miss

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Speaker 1: some of these other signs. And so I'm curious about,

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Speaker 1: like what that would look like for somebody who maybe

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Speaker 1: has gone their entire life and so like college or older,

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Speaker 1: and has never received a diagnosis and therefore no treatment

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Speaker 1: for any of these concerns, Like what kind of things

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Speaker 1: might they be struggling with if they've not been diagnosed,

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Speaker 1: but you know, later in life they continue to struggle, right, Definitely, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's the really important thing. And actually even in this

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Speaker 1: last week, uh and in a few clients, I've been

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Speaker 1: talking about this a little bit more so. One of

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Speaker 1: the primary things is depression UM because for individuals who

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Speaker 1: are high functioning, so people who used to be diagnosed

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Speaker 1: as Asperger syndrome UM, they have we're looking at again

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Speaker 1: that that UM high the average to high i Q level,

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Speaker 1: So they have that awareness of like, Okay, why am

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Speaker 1: I having a difficult time, um, making connections with friends

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Speaker 1: or keeping friends. Um, why is it that I don't

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Speaker 1: quite understand what's going on? Why don't I have a

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Speaker 1: boyfriend or a girlfriend? Um? Or why is it difficult

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Speaker 1: for me to interact with others? So I we will

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Speaker 1: tend to see depression much more frequently um an adults.

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Speaker 1: And then and then they'll there will also be concerns

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Speaker 1: of yeah, I've always had a hard time with friendships,

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Speaker 1: or I've only ever had like one good friend, or

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Speaker 1: I prefer to be by myself. Um. Sometimes they'll start

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Speaker 1: to feel more overwhelmed, especially if they did come from

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Speaker 1: like a smaller school setting um where their classrooms weren't

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Speaker 1: necessarily large, and if they are in college and it's bigger,

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Speaker 1: it's noisier, they start to find that they have difficulty

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Speaker 1: just being in that classroom setting. UM. So those are

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Speaker 1: some of the things. And then also actually another interesting

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Speaker 1: time where I tend to uh encounter adults who wonder

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Speaker 1: about their own diagnosis is when they have a child

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Speaker 1: that presents very much more so with symptoms of autism

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Speaker 1: and they're like, well, I do that too, and I

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Speaker 1: do that too, and I do that too. And you know,

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Speaker 1: there have been some times where I've had to have

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Speaker 1: a discussion with the parents themselves about, yeah, let's talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit more about uh, your experiences and uh

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Speaker 1: you know maybe you know, basically supports that they can

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Speaker 1: look into for themselves or fur their testing for them

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Speaker 1: to to flesh that out a little bit more. So. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's as it's either kind of like in that college

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Speaker 1: that college age kid um or sometimes as late as

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Speaker 1: like parenthood where they start to realize that got it, okay.

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Speaker 1: And I'm thinking, you know, just like many things, um,

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Speaker 1: that would impact childhood, right, like when you have a

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Speaker 1: child that sick in some way or impaired or having

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Speaker 1: you know, some struggles in some way, that causes a

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Speaker 1: ruple effect for the family. Right. And I'm wondering, um

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Speaker 1: about any work you do or any ideas you have

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Speaker 1: about like how this impacts parents and siblings and you

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Speaker 1: know other caregivers in the family. Sure. Yeah, and it

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Speaker 1: has a very large impact. And that is UM often

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Speaker 1: the first so particularly with I should say with African

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Speaker 1: American families, with black families that um, black kids are

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Speaker 1: actually diagnosed with autism at a lower rate than UM

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Speaker 1: their Caucasian counterparts. And there you know, UH many reasons

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Speaker 1: of that, everything from how behaviors from black children are

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Speaker 1: interpreted differently. UM, they're more likely to be diagnosed with

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Speaker 1: something like oppositional defiant disorder UM sometimes even conduct disorder

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Speaker 1: a d h D. They're more likely to be diagnosed

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Speaker 1: with that then ontism spectrum disorder. So the first part

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Speaker 1: really UM for those families that that might not even

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Speaker 1: realize the full scope, is helping them to understand really

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Speaker 1: the struggle that they're having is above and beyond an

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Speaker 1: oppositional defiant disorder or a d h D UM, and

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Speaker 1: that often provides a good amount of relief for families

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Speaker 1: because in just knowing that UM and having that knowledge

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Speaker 1: that uh, you know this is this is a significant

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Speaker 1: and not to say that a d H d D

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Speaker 1: are not significant, but that at least with UH with

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Speaker 1: a s D, it does require a higher level of support.

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Speaker 1: So that tends to be first and then for moms

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Speaker 1: UM or the primary caregiver and often is UH it

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Speaker 1: is moms helping them to make sure that they're also

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Speaker 1: taking care of themselves UM. Oftentimes they will then also

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Speaker 1: struggle with depression or in anxiety UH whether or not

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Speaker 1: they have a partner also involved in the processes is significant.

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Speaker 1: So I do ask about the structure of the family

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Speaker 1: and the level of support from UH the spouse or

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Speaker 1: significant other UM or the child's other parents, because that

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Speaker 1: burnout is very real UM when it comes to parents

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Speaker 1: of kids with a s d UH siblings, that becomes

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Speaker 1: another concern as well, because lots of times UM and

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Speaker 1: my always goes out to the siblings who kind of

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Speaker 1: come in and they start to feel more jealous of

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Speaker 1: the amount of time that I'm spending with their brother

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Speaker 1: and sister or sister UH, and they often ask to

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Speaker 1: see someone themselves. Will start to see then UH some

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Speaker 1: acting out behaviors from siblings, which then adds a new

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Speaker 1: layer for parents to have to cope with and deal with.

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Speaker 1: So that becomes really hugely important. That's a lot of

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Speaker 1: work that UM. I also try to make sure that

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Speaker 1: I bring to the attention of parents and provide avenues

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Speaker 1: of support for for mom, for dad. UH. Sometimes grandparents

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Speaker 1: are the primary caregivers because parents have to work UM,

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Speaker 1: and so that can be tremendously UH stressful for a

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Speaker 1: grandparent who's trying to keep up with a young child

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Speaker 1: who's struggling with an autism spectrum disorder. Uh, so it

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Speaker 1: really is for me. It really is about trying to

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Speaker 1: find UM support for every member of the family so

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Speaker 1: that they are working UM at their best or as

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Speaker 1: best as possible, given you know, the level of stressors

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Speaker 1: that they have. Right, it does seem like it would

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Speaker 1: be important to really try to bring in as many

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Speaker 1: like support people as possible, especially like if there is

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Speaker 1: a sibling, UM like you mentioned in the picture who's

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Speaker 1: feeling jealous or I leved that in some way exactly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and and that's definitely work that that I YEA enjoy

400
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Speaker 1: doing and providing UM. Uh, you know, making sure that

401
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Speaker 1: that we have all of our bases covered. I am

402
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Speaker 1: I'm one of those people that I like to h

403
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Speaker 1: I'm a jack of all trades and I try to

404
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Speaker 1: master as many as I can so UM and making

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Speaker 1: sure that I'm I'm I'm covering all angles for my

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Speaker 1: clients as well. So right, so you kind of mentioned

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Speaker 1: earlier on Cindy, UM, you know that we have been

408
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Speaker 1: hearing more about this in the news, UM, and that

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Speaker 1: it does seem that a s D will often come

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Speaker 1: up around like some of these school shooting's. Do you

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Speaker 1: have any ideas about like why they it is? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because I think there's a lot of misconception, unfortunately still

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Speaker 1: about what autism spectrum disorder is and isn't. And it's

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Speaker 1: this belief that, oh, if someone doesn't want to or

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Speaker 1: doesn't function well in society, they they must have autism.

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Speaker 1: And um, autism is diagnosed at a pretty high rate.

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Speaker 1: I believe it's one in uh let's see one in

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Speaker 1: fifty two boys. I believe maybe one in forty eight boys,

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Speaker 1: and one in one hundred and change kids in general.

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Speaker 1: So um My my belief is that it is overdiagnosed.

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Speaker 1: But at the same time, I do believe that they

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Speaker 1: are kids that are falling through the cracks. Uh. So

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Speaker 1: it can be very easy to say, Okay, a kid

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Speaker 1: is not interacting well with peers, they have a s D. UM,

425
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Speaker 1: and it's it's not that simple. So um. And unfortunately

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Speaker 1: it paints an extremely negative picture of a s D

427
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Speaker 1: because um and in individuals who struggle with it. Because

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Speaker 1: these individuals who are committing these tragic days, these school shootings,

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Speaker 1: these mass shootings, they are outliers regardless um, regardless of

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Speaker 1: their diagnosis and it's just you know, it's it's interesting.

431
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 1: I'm trying not to get angry. I really get kind

432
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 1: of fired up about this because it's just so, it's

433
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,919
Speaker 1: just so, it's just unfair, um, you know, to say, Okay,

434
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 1: they they don't they're not they're not interacting well with others.

435
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: They're they're they're acting in a way that doesn't make

436
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,120
Speaker 1: sense to the rest of us. So let's let's call

437
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: it this, and autism spectrum disorder is um, it's a

438
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:34,640
Speaker 1: it's it's a unique set of uh of individuals who

439
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,160
Speaker 1: are not neurotypical. But that doesn't mean that they are,

440
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: you know, any more likely to commit these types of

441
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: crimes than any other person. Um. And really, if anything,

442
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: they would be less likely, um to do such things.

443
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think unfortunately our society has that notion.

444
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 1: But then at the same time, like there are we

445
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 1: do see depictions in on TV and in movies of

446
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 1: autism spectrum disorder are like back in the day when

447
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 1: I was coming up, rain Man was the call. I

448
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 1: love that movie, uh um and um. But at the

449
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: same time, they're they're so one of the things that

450
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 1: people often attached to a s D is what we

451
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 1: call the savant skill. So where you have these really

452
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 1: special abilities. UM. There's this one person I believe where uh,

453
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 1: I believe it's an African American male. I can't remember

454
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 1: his name, but he goes into helicopters, UM, you know,

455
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: does fly overs of cities and then can recreate the

456
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: cities from memory, UM via drawings and it's absolutely beautiful.

457
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 1: So that is what we call a savant skill. Like

458
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 1: that is uh. Individuals with autism spectrum disorder sometimes will

459
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 1: have that, but it's not the case for every person

460
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,360
Speaker 1: who has an autism spectrum disorder. UM. With rain Man,

461
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: it was that he could remember facts and dates really well.

462
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 1: And it is very intriguing and and I've worked with

463
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 1: some kids on the autism spectrum who have these types

464
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: of skills. You can you can pick a date in

465
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: history and they'll tell you what day of the week

466
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 1: it fell on, and you can look it up and

467
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 1: it'll be right. And they just did it, you know,

468
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: right there in the moment um. Sometimes they'll have musical

469
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 1: skills that are just very profound and advanced. UM, but

470
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: they're very rare. Uh. And there are a few UM.

471
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,639
Speaker 1: I don't know if people watched it but Parenthood, Like,

472
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 1: I love that show, Uh Parenthood has they did? I

473
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: felt a really good depiction of autism spectrum disorder. One

474
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: of the sons had a s D, and I thought

475
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 1: they captured it well. Um, they often do show that

476
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: the person doesn't engage in eye contact. So for anybody

477
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: who does watch The Good Doctor nowadays, Um, the lead

478
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: character Sean Murphy, he often doesn't make eye contact. And

479
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: while that is a symptom of autism spectrum disorder, it's not.

480
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 1: It's a person can have perfectly good eye contact and

481
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: still be diagnosed with autism spectrum disorders. So there are

482
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 1: certain things that will and to be played up a

483
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: lot for purposes of TV and movies because it makes

484
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 1: a good story. Um, that will perpetuate that idea. So um,

485
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 1: there there are plenty of individuals with a s D

486
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: who have great eye contact, who enjoy hugs, um who yeah,

487
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: who who do get along and have a wide range

488
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 1: of friends. It just might be sometimes that um, they

489
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: don't quite understand all the jokes within the friendships, so

490
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 1: they don't pick up on all the subtle you know,

491
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: like body language, like neurotypical people would. So yeah, there's

492
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: a lot of there are a lot of misconceptions out

493
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 1: there unfortunately, but parenthood and I think the Good Doctor overall,

494
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: when you take out all the all the drama, that

495
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: it does a fair depiction of it. So, Cinday, what

496
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: are some of your favorite resources for anybody who wants

497
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 1: to learn more about a s D? Like, any groups

498
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 1: or websites for parents, books that you enjoy, What kinds

499
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: of things would you suggest? Yeah, definitely. So A website

500
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 1: that I like is the Autism Society of America UM.

501
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: They have on their website on an a s D toolkit,

502
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 1: So basically if your child has received that diagnosis, you

503
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 1: can go to that website downloaded and it provides a

504
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: whole host of resources available for parents. UM. I am

505
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: in Maryland, and so Maryland is a really really um

506
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: good state UM in terms of like the support that

507
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 1: they provide so specific to Maryland for any Maryland listeners. Uh,

508
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: there's Pathfinders for Autism, which is a website as well

509
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 1: that UM is basically a directory for different providers everything

510
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 1: from applied behavior analysis, early intervention. I believe they're even

511
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: speech language ot UM, in home support, clinic support. Uh.

512
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: It just provides a whole host of information that's really great. UM.

513
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: Parents should absolutely look into other types of like federal

514
00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:00,080
Speaker 1: and state support. So again in Maryland, there's um d D,

515
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: a so Developmental Disabilities Association that provides some monetary funds. UM.

516
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: There's a very long wait list, but it's still worth

517
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 1: it to get on it. Um UH. There's also like

518
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 1: low Intensity Support Services lists is the abbreviation here in

519
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 1: the state of Maryland. That's a great resource. So wherever

520
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: you're living, I would say that definitely to UM reach

521
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: out to try to find someone who has a specialty

522
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 1: and autism spectrum disorders and they'll be able to lead

523
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 1: you to that UM. With respect to some books that

524
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 1: I really like UM, Tony Atwood is a great author

525
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: who has written a lot on Asperger syndrome, so pretty

526
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 1: much anything that he's written it would be a great

527
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: resource for understanding, especially like High Functioning a s D.

528
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: Books that UM I like to refer to parents UM

529
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: include on parenting the strong willed child. It gives a

530
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 1: really good kind of like step by step method of

531
00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 1: how to ignore the inappropriate behaviors of the tantrums while

532
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 1: UM reinforcing appropriate behaviors, but then still moving forward with

533
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 1: what you need your child to do. Uh, so that's

534
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: a great resource. Parenting s OS is another great book

535
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 1: for that as well. Um. There are some potty training

536
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: books that are great um to use as well, um,

537
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 1: basically potty Training in the Rapid Potty Training Method. Uh

538
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: and I'm sure we'll link it, You'll link it in

539
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: the show notes. So yeah. Um so those are some

540
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: really good resources that I like. I have to admit

541
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 1: that because I am a mom myself, I don't have

542
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 1: a whole lot of time for podcasts. Um so uh

543
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 1: straight up Therapy for Black Girls as one of the

544
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: few that I listened to right now. Um. But there

545
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: are a few other resources on like Facebook, um of

546
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: some of of some individuals who provide helpful support basically

547
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: their speech and language people or or teachers that um

548
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: that fight examples of like how to structure your I

549
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: e p s and um how to advocate. Oh I

550
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: guess that was a whole other topic to I e

551
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 1: p S. But um that Yeah, so those are the

552
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 1: things that I I turned to the most. It would

553
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 1: be like the as I mentioned, the Parenting the Strong

554
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: Will Child books by Tony Atwood, and then resources for

555
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: me like resources is number one, because when I do

556
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: see parents, they are, um, you know, they're often financially UM.

557
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: Sometimes I should say, in the population that I see

558
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 1: financially uh kind of struggling and needing that um that support.

559
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: So those would be the things that I would I

560
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 1: would recommend. Yeah, and of course, like you mentioned, all

561
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: this will be included in the show notes. UM. So,

562
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: is there any news or anything going on with your

563
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 1: practice that you want to share for people to kind

564
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: of get more information about. Sure? Absolutely so. I have

565
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: begun my practice the Brighter Hope Wellness Center, and we

566
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: are dedicated to helping individuals who are diagnosed with autism

567
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 1: spectrum disorder and also their families. So, UM, I'm really

568
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 1: trying to draw from my experience, uh you know, working

569
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 1: in hospital settings up at Hopkins and Kennedy Creeker UM,

570
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 1: and my experiences over the last several years in private

571
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: practice and kind of bringing it all together under one

572
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 1: roof UM. And the goal is to also have a

573
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 1: speech and language services occupational therapy. UM. We're also uh

574
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 1: you know, I'm definitely uh ready to um start filling

575
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,439
Speaker 1: my groups. So social skills groups is something that I'm

576
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,760
Speaker 1: looking to get going with teens young adults uh first

577
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: and then we'll expand out to the kiddos. UM and

578
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 1: I'm very excited to be working on that because it is,

579
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,399
Speaker 1: you know, getting me back to my my passions work wise.

580
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 1: So certainly if you want more information about that, the

581
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: website is Brighter Hope Wellness dot com. Uh And I'm

582
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 1: also on uh my practices on you know, uh Twitter, Facebook,

583
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 1: Instagram at Brighter Hope WC. And you also have a

584
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 1: podcast that is starting career. I do, yes, yes, we

585
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 1: are finishing up like our first few episodes and working

586
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 1: on the editing. And it's called Brighter Podcast. And you

587
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 1: can go to Brighter podcast dot com to sign up

588
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: and to know when the when the episodes will be dropping,

589
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 1: which will be very very soon over the next couple

590
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: of weeks. And uh so our goal I have a

591
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: co host this season. Her name is Kimberly Nixon. We're

592
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: actually friends, we know each other in real life. We

593
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 1: have boys who have known each other since they were

594
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 1: too And so our goal really is to UM help

595
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 1: people basically take therapy out of the therapy room and

596
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 1: back into everyday life, to help people to see that

597
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 1: you don't have to be diagnosed with anxiety or depression

598
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 1: UM to necessarily to benefit from psychotherapy and these tips.

599
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,839
Speaker 1: It's really for everybody, so we're really trying to help

600
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 1: um spread word about how you can apply tips from

601
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: therapy into your everyday life. And it's called the Brighter

602
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 1: Podcast and it's also on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram at Brighter

603
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 1: podcast Perfect and that will be included in the show

604
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 1: notes as well. Well. Thank you so much for your

605
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: time today, Cindy. I really appreciate it. Thank you, It's

606
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:26,839
Speaker 1: a lot of fun. Thank you so much for having

607
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:31,720
Speaker 1: me on. You're welcome. I'm very thankful doctor was able

608
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 1: to join us today and do hope that you'll check

609
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 1: out her website and podcast to keep up with all

610
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: the cool things she's doing. You can find all of

611
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: that information in the show notes at Therapy for Black

612
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 1: Girls dot com slash session. If you'd like to continue

613
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 1: the conversation started here on the podcast, make sure to

614
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 1: join us over in the Facebook community at Therapy for

615
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 1: Black Girls dot com slash tribe, and please be mindful

616
00:36:57,880 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 1: that there are three questions that you need to answer

617
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 1: for your approved to join the group. If you're looking

618
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 1: for a therapist in your area, be sure to check

619
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: out the therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot

620
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:14,399
Speaker 1: com slash directory. I'm always thrilled when you all tag

621
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 1: me on social media, so let me know you found

622
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,799
Speaker 1: your therapist in the directory. I'm so happy it's been

623
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 1: a great resource for so many of you. Please keep

624
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 1: sharing the news about the podcast with your friends and family.

625
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,800
Speaker 1: Word of mouth has been the single largest way people

626
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: have found out about the podcast, so I love it

627
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,359
Speaker 1: if you shared your favorite episode with at least three

628
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 1: new people this week. I'll be back next week for

629
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 1: session fifty two and will also be officially celebrating one

630
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 1: year of the podcast. Next week. I'll have some exciting

631
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 1: news about how we're officially going to mark the occasion.

632
00:37:50,120 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 1: Until next time, take it care A doctor, I doctor, doctor,

633
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:26,800
Speaker 1: I doctor, doctor doctor