WEBVTT - Mike Shinoda 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:22.556 Pushkin. Mike Schanoda took a bold step last fall when 0:00:22.636 --> 0:00:25.676 he reintroduced Lincoln Park with a new lineup featuring drummer 0:00:25.756 --> 0:00:29.636 Colin Britten and singer Emily Armstrong as lead vocalist, taking 0:00:29.636 --> 0:00:33.196 the role once held by Chester Bennington. Mike, who co 0:00:33.236 --> 0:00:35.956 founded Lincoln Park in ninety six, has long served as 0:00:35.956 --> 0:00:38.396 the group's de facto producer, as well as as MC 0:00:38.596 --> 0:00:41.796 and keyboardist. The band rose to massive success in the 0:00:41.836 --> 0:00:44.036 two thousands with the run of new metal albums that 0:00:44.116 --> 0:00:48.756 have collectively sold more than ten million copies worldwide. In November, 0:00:48.796 --> 0:00:52.076 Lincoln Park released From Zero, their eighth studio album and 0:00:52.116 --> 0:00:55.636 the first with Emily as front woman. The records already 0:00:55.676 --> 0:00:59.916 surpassed three billion streams online. On today's episode, Lea Rose 0:00:59.916 --> 0:01:02.356 talks to Mike Shanoda about why he chose not to 0:01:02.396 --> 0:01:05.356 retire Lincoln Park and instead took the creative risk of 0:01:05.396 --> 0:01:09.516 reinventing the band nearly thirty years after its formation. Mike 0:01:09.556 --> 0:01:12.156 also shares his favorite Lincoln Park songs of all time 0:01:12.556 --> 0:01:14.876 and explains how the band managed to stand apart from 0:01:14.916 --> 0:01:17.716 the bro centric frat boy culture that defined much of 0:01:17.796 --> 0:01:24.956 early two thousand's new metal this is Broken Record, real musicians, 0:01:25.196 --> 0:01:33.556 real conversations. Here's Lea Rose and Mike Shanoda. 0:01:34.716 --> 0:01:37.796 I was listening back to your last interview on Broken Records. 0:01:37.836 --> 0:01:41.196 So the last time you were on was twenty twenty 0:01:41.236 --> 0:01:46.356 one in March, and you were very much in your 0:01:46.676 --> 0:01:53.116 Twitch era, like, you know, five days a week on there, grinding, 0:01:53.236 --> 0:01:56.676 producing new music with people that you were meeting online, 0:01:56.836 --> 0:02:01.236 and you seemed like super pumped about it. So how 0:02:01.276 --> 0:02:06.676 did that transition into Lincoln Park, finding Emily and the 0:02:06.716 --> 0:02:07.836 band starting up again? 0:02:09.236 --> 0:02:14.516 Where do I even start? So? I was doing you know, 0:02:14.596 --> 0:02:20.036 after twenty twenty, I was doing some I was doing 0:02:20.116 --> 0:02:25.036 Twitch live streams here actually on this setup, and I 0:02:26.236 --> 0:02:30.036 I made songs with the fans. I like they would 0:02:30.036 --> 0:02:33.156 throw ideas out, I'd make make tracks out of their ideas, 0:02:34.796 --> 0:02:36.956 and yeah we did. I did some fun stuff there. 0:02:38.316 --> 0:02:40.196 And at a certain point, you know, I was also 0:02:40.916 --> 0:02:44.916 starting to do sessions with other artists, like writing and producing, 0:02:44.916 --> 0:02:46.996 and I was making starting to make my own stuff 0:02:47.036 --> 0:02:51.636 again very quietly and really not putting any names on it, 0:02:51.676 --> 0:02:55.836 like just making the most random like stuff that you'd 0:02:55.876 --> 0:02:57.756 never even expect me to make. 0:02:58.156 --> 0:02:59.236 What did it sound like. 0:02:59.276 --> 0:03:01.116 The most I mean, well, some of it sounded like 0:03:01.196 --> 0:03:05.076 Lincoln Park. Some of it sounded like me experimenting, like 0:03:05.236 --> 0:03:09.276 I've done a few different like projects for it, minor 0:03:09.636 --> 0:03:11.796 my own solo stuff, and there were elements of all 0:03:11.836 --> 0:03:15.156 those things going on. But I had kept in touch 0:03:15.196 --> 0:03:18.636 with all the guys in the band, and we had 0:03:18.636 --> 0:03:22.116 gotten together, and then like it kind of just like 0:03:22.916 --> 0:03:25.796 nothing was there. Like we would get together for a 0:03:25.836 --> 0:03:29.556 little bit and then you know, people just wouldn't show 0:03:29.636 --> 0:03:32.796 up or call back or whatever. And that happened every 0:03:32.996 --> 0:03:35.396 every a couple maybe like once a year or a 0:03:35.396 --> 0:03:41.436 couple of times a year. And sometime around I'm gonna 0:03:41.476 --> 0:03:45.436 guess it was like twenty twenty three, I started really 0:03:45.436 --> 0:03:48.396 talking to Joe and Dave like that. I could tell 0:03:48.436 --> 0:03:53.156 that they were really ready to do something, and I 0:03:53.796 --> 0:03:55.076 was as well. 0:03:55.276 --> 0:03:58.076 So when you all made the decision to come back together, 0:03:58.596 --> 0:04:00.916 was it more just to kind of see what happens 0:04:01.036 --> 0:04:02.716 or was it like, all right, we're going to do 0:04:02.756 --> 0:04:05.836 an album, we're reuniting, we're getting a new singer, we're 0:04:05.836 --> 0:04:06.676 going to go on tour. 0:04:06.996 --> 0:04:08.756 Was it like a whole that very opposite of that. 0:04:09.196 --> 0:04:11.836 It was the opposite of that, because we were like 0:04:12.636 --> 0:04:17.436 we really wanted to take the like pressure, it's so 0:04:17.556 --> 0:04:21.916 much pressure to like to like start Lincoln Park again totally, 0:04:22.036 --> 0:04:26.396 that's a very big idea, and it was it's like scary. 0:04:26.396 --> 0:04:28.716 It was scary, and it was like there are too 0:04:28.716 --> 0:04:31.756 many things could be go wrong and there were too 0:04:31.796 --> 0:04:35.076 many questions. So we really just we really just approached 0:04:35.076 --> 0:04:41.756 it like following like little glimmers of interest, you know, 0:04:41.996 --> 0:04:45.236 like whatever seemed seemed like it held our attention and 0:04:45.636 --> 0:04:47.676 we wanted to do more of it. We just follow 0:04:47.716 --> 0:04:49.996 those things. And even when we had people come in, 0:04:50.076 --> 0:04:51.796 we never said it was Lincoln Park. It was like 0:04:51.796 --> 0:04:54.316 they'd see it be it'd be you know, me Joe 0:04:54.436 --> 0:04:56.596 Dave in the room. But even if it was just 0:04:56.676 --> 0:04:59.876 me in the room, like obviously I would, we would 0:04:59.876 --> 0:05:03.396 never like I shouldn't I shouldn't I say obviously, because 0:05:03.436 --> 0:05:05.516 it's like if there's just one of if it's just me, 0:05:05.996 --> 0:05:09.676 then the question is less of an elephant in the room, 0:05:09.676 --> 0:05:11.756 but if it's three of us, it's more of an 0:05:11.756 --> 0:05:14.676 elephant in the room, like is this a Lincoln Park session? 0:05:15.116 --> 0:05:19.116 So yeah, when we first started, it was like that, 0:05:19.276 --> 0:05:20.956 you know, we would just kind of get together with 0:05:21.036 --> 0:05:25.076 people and mess around and again like some of the 0:05:25.116 --> 0:05:27.756 stuff kind of like to somebody else's here, maybe it 0:05:27.796 --> 0:05:29.396 sounded like it could be a Lincoln Bark song, but 0:05:29.436 --> 0:05:33.796 definitely to ours. We were kind of exploring different I 0:05:33.836 --> 0:05:39.076 don't know, esthetic or a different like creative path. And 0:05:39.116 --> 0:05:41.956 then yeah, and then slowly like we started to like 0:05:41.996 --> 0:05:45.756 we had met Emily. I had met Emily like back 0:05:45.796 --> 0:05:49.836 in like almost like twenty eighteen nineteen I think it was, 0:05:50.596 --> 0:05:53.836 and just kept in touch. She was going to do 0:05:53.836 --> 0:05:58.276 another Dead Sarah record. She did that and then got 0:05:58.476 --> 0:06:01.636 like just reconnected and started bringing her in with the 0:06:01.716 --> 0:06:05.236 other guys in different combinations. We'd have, you know, get 0:06:05.236 --> 0:06:08.956 together with different writers or something, and really it Galvin, 0:06:08.996 --> 0:06:12.716 I when it was like just when Brad came into 0:06:12.876 --> 0:06:14.956 and it was just like the six of us in 0:06:14.996 --> 0:06:18.556 the room, then it was really it felt like, oh, 0:06:18.556 --> 0:06:21.556 I want to do this every day, Like it's the best. Wow. 0:06:21.636 --> 0:06:23.036 She is so awesome? 0:06:23.676 --> 0:06:24.556 Yea is she? 0:06:25.076 --> 0:06:28.996 Like there's something special about that woman. She's incredible. She's 0:06:28.996 --> 0:06:33.716 incredible to watch. She's an awesome performer. Like I feel 0:06:33.756 --> 0:06:36.516 like you just struck gold and it's so awesome to 0:06:36.556 --> 0:06:40.676 bring a woman in Lincoln Park is so like I 0:06:40.716 --> 0:06:43.556 look at your old photos and it's just like, dudes, 0:06:43.636 --> 0:06:45.836 it's like energy, dude energy. 0:06:45.916 --> 0:06:48.996 It's funny because we were in the context of like 0:06:49.076 --> 0:06:51.876 the bands and the and the festivals and the shows 0:06:51.876 --> 0:06:55.956 that we were doing. We were the least broy bros 0:06:56.076 --> 0:06:59.076 of the of the lineup, Like we were on these 0:06:59.076 --> 0:07:02.196 shows with like it was like oz Fest, yeah, and 0:07:02.996 --> 0:07:09.236 like people were just like waking up getting drunk, like 0:07:09.756 --> 0:07:13.036 blacking out and then waking up next morning and chugging 0:07:13.276 --> 0:07:16.316 a pedia lighte to like rehydrate and then drink again. 0:07:16.676 --> 0:07:19.876 And we were just sitting there in our bus like 0:07:20.356 --> 0:07:23.516 isolating ourselves because we didn't there were only like a 0:07:23.676 --> 0:07:27.036 handful of people on those tours that we were like, oh, 0:07:27.076 --> 0:07:29.716 like these are kind of our people, yea, And I 0:07:29.716 --> 0:07:33.076 have nothing against like all those folks from those from 0:07:33.156 --> 0:07:37.996 those tours, like a lot of really sweet performers, great 0:07:37.996 --> 0:07:40.516 great dudes in bands, though, like you were saying, like 0:07:40.556 --> 0:07:43.676 the energy was very masculine energy. The crews were all 0:07:44.236 --> 0:07:49.436 bros with tattoos and beer guts, and like that wasn't 0:07:49.436 --> 0:07:52.076 our even way back in like two thousand and two, 0:07:52.116 --> 0:07:55.356 two thousand and three, that wasn't really our scene. 0:07:56.276 --> 0:07:59.676 Yeah, that was the I was looking at the photos 0:07:59.756 --> 0:08:02.476 for Hybrid Theory, and I guess it was like the 0:08:02.476 --> 0:08:05.956 photo that was on the back of the CD maybe 0:08:05.996 --> 0:08:07.996 at first, and I was thinking about you because you've 0:08:08.036 --> 0:08:11.516 always been sort of like the art director for the band. 0:08:11.276 --> 0:08:14.316 Right me and Joe. Yeah, Joe and I had met 0:08:14.356 --> 0:08:17.596 in college. We both studied illustration and he left to 0:08:17.596 --> 0:08:20.396 go do film and I stayed and finished my I 0:08:20.436 --> 0:08:22.676 got my my bachelor's. 0:08:22.276 --> 0:08:25.316 So very visual. Do you remember like what your thought 0:08:25.636 --> 0:08:28.716 was for the aesthetic of the band in those early 0:08:28.796 --> 0:08:29.996 days for like that shoot? 0:08:30.636 --> 0:08:34.476 Yeah, totally. The first meeting we had with the label 0:08:34.756 --> 0:08:40.276 about the aesthetic, like what art direction we'd like to 0:08:40.396 --> 0:08:43.516 kind of go in with with Hybrid Theory. You know, 0:08:43.636 --> 0:08:46.236 the folks that we already knew were they had said 0:08:46.276 --> 0:08:48.396 to the to the art department, Oh, these guys like 0:08:48.476 --> 0:08:49.956 they you know, a couple of the guys went to 0:08:50.036 --> 0:08:52.196 art school, so they take this pretty seriously and then 0:08:52.516 --> 0:08:55.156 they know more about it than your average band. Like 0:08:55.236 --> 0:08:59.636 Mike has done. He designed like, you know, single covers 0:08:59.636 --> 0:09:02.636 and CD covers for a few artists. So oh that's 0:09:03.276 --> 0:09:06.316 it was like little little hip hop groups like Styles 0:09:06.356 --> 0:09:08.956 of Beyond and a Carnadian rapper named Soccrates a couple 0:09:08.956 --> 0:09:10.956 of things. I don't remember what else I did, but 0:09:11.196 --> 0:09:14.236 you know, just enough enough. I felt like I knew 0:09:14.356 --> 0:09:18.596 enough to like have have a more detailed conversation about it. 0:09:18.636 --> 0:09:22.556 And also I didn't want to be like drawing the 0:09:22.596 --> 0:09:25.196 covers because that wasn't really the aesthetic we were going for. 0:09:25.236 --> 0:09:28.316 And then we like we realized that there's this guy 0:09:28.396 --> 0:09:32.836 named Frank Maddox who he had done like the Deaftones stuff, 0:09:33.316 --> 0:09:36.556 which we thought was so cool. White Pony looked incredible, 0:09:36.956 --> 0:09:40.636 So we started meeting with Frank and one of the 0:09:40.676 --> 0:09:43.196 things we all bonded on super early was like this 0:09:43.316 --> 0:09:47.276 new thing that was going on called street art is 0:09:47.316 --> 0:09:50.556 what there was basically like an elevated version of graffiti, 0:09:50.636 --> 0:09:52.636 but like a lot of illustrators and people with that 0:09:52.756 --> 0:09:55.556 kind of talent were moving into the graffiti world. And 0:09:55.596 --> 0:10:01.076 you had characters like Banksy showing up yeah, yeah, exactly, 0:10:01.236 --> 0:10:04.196 and obays stickers were actually on at the time MTV, 0:10:04.836 --> 0:10:06.796 Like they were showing up in the background of things 0:10:06.876 --> 0:10:08.996 on MTV. And I don't even know if MTV knew 0:10:09.436 --> 0:10:11.596 that that was happening, but people like us, we were like, 0:10:11.636 --> 0:10:14.796 oh my god, Shepherd's everywhere. This obey thing is so cool. Yeah, 0:10:14.836 --> 0:10:16.876 and so we were that was our inspiration. I mean 0:10:16.876 --> 0:10:19.956 we really we really bonded over that, among other things. 0:10:20.396 --> 0:10:24.276 Very cool. And then how thinking about I mean, I've 0:10:24.276 --> 0:10:27.916 seen a lot of people say that from zero is 0:10:27.956 --> 0:10:32.996 sort of maybe in ways referencing hybrid theory, and I 0:10:33.036 --> 0:10:35.236 want to ask you about the name, like from zero 0:10:35.956 --> 0:10:40.556 is that a reference at all? Obviously it's maybe starting over? 0:10:40.956 --> 0:10:43.196 Yeah, so that's one one meaning. 0:10:43.236 --> 0:10:45.276 Is it also Zero your first band? 0:10:45.676 --> 0:10:49.436 Yeah? So the people I feel like usually people who 0:10:49.436 --> 0:10:51.436 are like, oh yeah, it sounds like hybrid theory. They 0:10:51.716 --> 0:10:54.396 though ninety nine percent of those people don't realize that 0:10:54.436 --> 0:10:56.716 we were called zero before we were hybrid theory and 0:10:56.756 --> 0:11:00.396 that zero was that sounded like hybrid theory, Like that's 0:11:00.956 --> 0:11:03.996 theory was zero. So when we started the band, we 0:11:05.516 --> 0:11:08.316 you know, it was XCRO was the name of the band, 0:11:08.356 --> 0:11:12.716 and it was like just a very like uncooked, not 0:11:12.796 --> 0:11:15.476 quite developed version of what it became. You know, we 0:11:15.476 --> 0:11:18.876 were still figuring out the sound, and especially early early on, 0:11:18.956 --> 0:11:20.916 we just didn't have the gear, Like, we didn't have 0:11:20.996 --> 0:11:23.156 the stuff that we would need to make the things 0:11:23.156 --> 0:11:26.076 that we wanted to make. The very first deal we 0:11:26.116 --> 0:11:29.956 ever signed was a publishing deal, and we knew at 0:11:29.956 --> 0:11:32.636 that time that like signing a publishing deal so early 0:11:32.756 --> 0:11:36.556 was probably financially a terrible idea, but we also didn't 0:11:36.556 --> 0:11:39.716 take the band so seriously yet, like we were just like, well, 0:11:40.276 --> 0:11:42.516 I'm just as happy like going back to my day job, 0:11:42.636 --> 0:11:44.596 like and playing music on the weekends, Like I'm doing 0:11:44.636 --> 0:11:47.396 this because it's fun and because I like the stuff 0:11:47.396 --> 0:11:49.796 we're making. So if we signed this publishing deal, we 0:11:49.836 --> 0:11:52.436 can all buy new gear and actually make the stuff 0:11:52.476 --> 0:11:54.796 we want to make. And so we bought you know, 0:11:54.836 --> 0:11:57.436 we bought a new sampler, we bought a new guitar, cabinet, 0:11:57.516 --> 0:12:00.516 new guitar, new bass, new drums, new and we for 0:12:00.556 --> 0:12:02.596 the first time we had pro tools on a computer 0:12:02.676 --> 0:12:04.516 at home, and I was the guy. I was the 0:12:04.556 --> 0:12:07.636 pro tools guy. So I was learning that and learning 0:12:07.676 --> 0:12:10.476 about how to have engineer or how to produce a song. 0:12:11.116 --> 0:12:13.236 Everyone we ever worked with, I was just like like 0:12:13.596 --> 0:12:15.876 picking their brain about you know, how do you do this, 0:12:15.956 --> 0:12:17.556 how do you do that? And learning on the fly. 0:12:18.156 --> 0:12:20.716 I was going to say, because that's pre YouTube tutorials, 0:12:20.756 --> 0:12:22.876 so it's not like you could just like, yeah, so 0:12:22.916 --> 0:12:24.276 you had. 0:12:24.076 --> 0:12:26.356 To get the info from somebody who was doing it, 0:12:26.436 --> 0:12:28.556 I mean, and I wasn't in a position to intern 0:12:28.596 --> 0:12:30.676 I had bills to pay, and we our band was 0:12:30.676 --> 0:12:34.756 starting to have like real fans by the maybe by 0:12:34.756 --> 0:12:36.836 the dozens at that point. I don't think by the 0:12:36.916 --> 0:12:39.436 hundreds at that point, but yeah, we were called zero. 0:12:39.716 --> 0:12:42.276 And so when fast forward to like, you know, twenty 0:12:42.316 --> 0:12:47.556 twenty four, when we were making this album, it was 0:12:47.596 --> 0:12:52.556 funny because the band we were making the band, you know, 0:12:52.676 --> 0:12:54.756 at the same time that we were making the album, 0:12:54.836 --> 0:12:57.036 like the band was coming into focus while the music 0:12:57.076 --> 0:12:59.236 was coming into focus, and so we were learning about 0:12:59.236 --> 0:13:05.316 like different things that our new lineup could do. There 0:13:05.356 --> 0:13:09.676 were like combinations of different people in the when you 0:13:09.716 --> 0:13:12.276 put us together and that played a certain way, it 0:13:12.396 --> 0:13:16.636 sounded new and interesting, and so for that, you know, 0:13:16.716 --> 0:13:18.876 that was one of the reasons why we gravitated towards 0:13:18.956 --> 0:13:21.916 the name, because it did feel like a restart and 0:13:21.956 --> 0:13:23.876 a return to some of the things that we really 0:13:23.876 --> 0:13:24.756 loved in the beginning. 0:13:25.716 --> 0:13:27.916 Were you hesitant at all to bring a woman in 0:13:28.036 --> 0:13:32.196 since I don't know, I mean, it's a big change, 0:13:32.236 --> 0:13:35.596 but it's not a big deal. But for some people 0:13:35.636 --> 0:13:37.156 it may be a big deal, Like. 0:13:38.956 --> 0:13:42.356 It was funny because I didn't I didn't mention it 0:13:42.396 --> 0:13:45.556 to any of my friends, like I didn't want anyone 0:13:45.596 --> 0:13:48.556 to know that that's what we were considering, really, And 0:13:48.956 --> 0:13:52.836 I started to notice every time somebody would talk about 0:13:52.916 --> 0:13:56.316 a band that had a female singer, I started to 0:13:56.436 --> 0:13:59.916 notice the way they would talk about them. And in particular, 0:13:59.996 --> 0:14:03.356 the thing that I noticed more that people won't say 0:14:04.876 --> 0:14:08.556 in an interview or on Twitter or whatever they what 0:14:08.596 --> 0:14:11.676 they won't say is that it's that whole thing about 0:14:12.116 --> 0:14:15.156 when a woman who's in that kind of a position 0:14:15.236 --> 0:14:18.476 like asserts herself. You see it in corporate culture too. 0:14:18.796 --> 0:14:21.516 She asserts herself, she's bitchy all of a sudden, like 0:14:21.556 --> 0:14:25.876 they call her, they they they characterize her a certain way. 0:14:25.956 --> 0:14:28.076 And so when I was like when we started like 0:14:28.116 --> 0:14:32.956 thinking about Emily, I was noticing that. And and you know, 0:14:33.236 --> 0:14:38.836 she has a very she she like sails back and 0:14:38.876 --> 0:14:44.356 forth between like very low key and like go with 0:14:44.396 --> 0:14:48.596 the flow, and then right into like very confident, like 0:14:48.876 --> 0:14:51.756 badass who knows what she's doing, and she's and that 0:14:51.876 --> 0:14:53.116 was I think that was one of the things that 0:14:53.156 --> 0:14:55.716 we really enjoyed as we were starting to get to 0:14:55.756 --> 0:14:59.156 know each other, it's like, oh, she's always that whatever 0:14:59.196 --> 0:15:01.156 that ebb and flow is of when she wants to 0:15:01.156 --> 0:15:02.276 be in the front seat and when she wants in 0:15:02.316 --> 0:15:04.596 the backseat and when she like has an opinion but 0:15:04.636 --> 0:15:07.396 she doesn't want to be forceful. It's like very it 0:15:07.516 --> 0:15:10.156 locks right in with our our energy too. 0:15:10.796 --> 0:15:12.956 There's a lot of people to lock in with, like 0:15:13.196 --> 0:15:15.396 because six is a lot, yes. 0:15:15.636 --> 0:15:19.876 A lot of three people and they can't get along 0:15:20.676 --> 0:15:21.556 twice as many. 0:15:21.756 --> 0:15:25.276 Yes, what did your wife say? Or just people close 0:15:25.316 --> 0:15:27.076 to you when you were like, all right, we're doing 0:15:27.116 --> 0:15:28.836 this again. It's starting up. 0:15:30.116 --> 0:15:35.276 It was a very slow It came about very slowly 0:15:35.316 --> 0:15:40.156 and gradually many months, many months. So it wasn't like us, 0:15:40.196 --> 0:15:44.956 we're not snap decision kind of folks. Yeah, that's that's 0:15:45.036 --> 0:15:49.676 to our you know, benefit and our detriment. Like I 0:15:49.676 --> 0:15:51.956 think people know that about us. So sometimes we take 0:15:51.996 --> 0:15:54.036 time with things, and this was definitely a thing we 0:15:54.236 --> 0:15:57.236 wanted to take so much time with. Yeah, and yeah, 0:15:57.236 --> 0:16:02.156 it was just like you know, getting in the room, 0:16:02.316 --> 0:16:04.476 getting in the room talking and we'd end up like 0:16:04.916 --> 0:16:07.196 working on something. Some days we work on stuff and 0:16:07.276 --> 0:16:10.396 just like for like forget what we were there for. 0:16:10.596 --> 0:16:12.796 We'd just be talking and talking and talking and be like, 0:16:12.836 --> 0:16:15.516 oh my god, we've been sitting here just like hanging 0:16:15.556 --> 0:16:18.556 out for four hours, like we really ought to, like 0:16:18.636 --> 0:16:19.556 work on a song. 0:16:20.156 --> 0:16:22.836 It's also like coming out of the pandemic and people 0:16:22.876 --> 0:16:25.636 have been isolated for so long, Like I remember those 0:16:25.676 --> 0:16:30.156 early days conversations where you're like, oh wow, I can't 0:16:30.156 --> 0:16:30.476 be I. 0:16:30.516 --> 0:16:34.316 Mean, definitely, I think that was definitely it too. But 0:16:34.316 --> 0:16:38.236 but but we you know, we had such a good 0:16:38.316 --> 0:16:41.756 We really enjoyed the process of making this album. And 0:16:42.116 --> 0:16:46.316 not every album that we've made is that way, you know, 0:16:46.796 --> 0:16:51.476 I think notoriously, Like Hybrid Theory was like painful to make. 0:16:52.236 --> 0:16:55.596 Minutes Midnight, our third album, was also pretty painful to make. 0:16:55.636 --> 0:16:58.396 It was fare it was Hybrid Theory because it was short, fast, 0:16:58.436 --> 0:17:01.396 and everybody was like fighting against us on everything. And 0:17:01.476 --> 0:17:04.516 Minutes Midnight was tough because it was very very slow 0:17:04.556 --> 0:17:06.756 and long and like eighteen months and one hundred and 0:17:06.756 --> 0:17:09.116 fifty demos and us tearing our hair out trying to 0:17:09.436 --> 0:17:12.596 reinvent our band. And so since we had those experiences, 0:17:12.636 --> 0:17:15.516 I think we were able to like Harness the best 0:17:17.196 --> 0:17:20.076 outlook like it was like, we knew how to do 0:17:20.596 --> 0:17:25.436 a difficult thing and not be miserable doing it. Yeah, 0:17:25.516 --> 0:17:29.076 does that make sense? So we did very very difficult thing, 0:17:29.116 --> 0:17:30.476 but we enjoyed every minute. 0:17:31.076 --> 0:17:34.556 Speaking of difficult things. When I was researching you and 0:17:34.636 --> 0:17:37.076 just watching interviews with you and just thinking about you 0:17:37.156 --> 0:17:41.156 in this band and your history and your career, you 0:17:41.436 --> 0:17:45.436 so could have easily just like rode off into the 0:17:45.476 --> 0:17:50.676 sunset enjoyed your success. But I feel like you're not 0:17:50.836 --> 0:17:54.916 scared to do difficult things, and reinventing the band in 0:17:54.956 --> 0:18:00.916 a way is like super super hard. But maybe that's 0:18:00.916 --> 0:18:02.836 when you work best, when you're back is against the 0:18:02.876 --> 0:18:04.476 wall and people are doubting you. 0:18:05.956 --> 0:18:08.916 Yeah. I think that the thing that one of the 0:18:08.916 --> 0:18:17.236 things that really drove us is the idea that if 0:18:17.276 --> 0:18:19.196 we had just like hung it up and said, Okay, 0:18:19.316 --> 0:18:23.676 that was a good run and call it quits, that 0:18:23.836 --> 0:18:26.396 is such a like a shitty way to end, for 0:18:26.436 --> 0:18:29.476 the band to end or stop making new music. That 0:18:29.636 --> 0:18:33.196 is like an awful story, like no one wants to 0:18:33.236 --> 0:18:36.476 read that book. And instead to be able to say, 0:18:36.596 --> 0:18:39.796 like and then the guys dusted themselves up off and 0:18:40.076 --> 0:18:44.316 got up again, Like that to me is exactly the 0:18:44.316 --> 0:18:46.396 book I want to read. Like that's the thing that's 0:18:46.436 --> 0:18:50.796 the hardest to do and the most intimidating, the most challenging, 0:18:51.516 --> 0:18:55.916 the most that could go wrong. Yes, honestly, and for 0:18:56.036 --> 0:18:59.716 ourselves and for our like our kids, for our fans, 0:19:00.236 --> 0:19:03.276 like to do it, to do it and say, yeah, 0:19:03.316 --> 0:19:06.636 we took huge risks on this, Like there's so much 0:19:06.676 --> 0:19:10.396 about the new like the new music, the new lineup 0:19:10.396 --> 0:19:15.196 and everything else that is I mean even before we 0:19:15.316 --> 0:19:18.516 even like put out, before anybody knew anything, we were like, okay, 0:19:18.996 --> 0:19:20.956 here's a laundry list of the things that people are 0:19:20.996 --> 0:19:24.676 not gonna like, Oh what was that? All of the 0:19:24.676 --> 0:19:27.236 things that they all of the things that they ended 0:19:27.276 --> 0:19:30.196 up not liking, like all the things that anybody on 0:19:30.236 --> 0:19:33.516 the internet argued about and continues to argue about about 0:19:33.516 --> 0:19:36.556 our band. If anyone thinks that we didn't think of 0:19:36.596 --> 0:19:39.316 those things, they're crazy, Like, I we live and breathe 0:19:39.316 --> 0:19:41.316 this band. We thought of all those things, and we know, Okay, 0:19:41.716 --> 0:19:44.036 that's that's is that. Okay, that's gonna be okay, right, 0:19:44.156 --> 0:19:49.356 Like they're gonna they're gonna like they open mouth, breather 0:19:49.676 --> 0:19:54.636 neck beard. Misogynist metal fan who loved our band, who 0:19:54.676 --> 0:19:56.756 loved our first two records and hasn't listened to the 0:19:56.756 --> 0:19:58.796 band since. But like thinks he's a Lincoln Park fan. 0:19:59.156 --> 0:20:05.036 He's gonna hate this band and like be vocal about it. 0:20:05.636 --> 0:20:08.996 So that's okay, like great, because that person's gonna get 0:20:09.036 --> 0:20:13.196 rid placed by ostensibly like a fifteen year old girl 0:20:13.516 --> 0:20:17.236 who's like, I've never been into like loud music before 0:20:17.596 --> 0:20:20.116 and I want to learn to play guitar now totally, 0:20:20.196 --> 0:20:21.996 and that is I mean, I love that. 0:20:22.396 --> 0:20:23.236 I love that too. 0:20:24.476 --> 0:20:26.196 We'll be back with more from Mike Shinoda and le 0:20:26.436 --> 0:20:27.636 Rose after the break. 0:20:32.116 --> 0:20:34.156 How did you think about the art direction of the 0:20:34.996 --> 0:20:37.876 of from zero? Do you think about, like are you 0:20:38.036 --> 0:20:41.036 granular down to like how everybody is dressing or can 0:20:41.076 --> 0:20:42.676 everybody just wear whatever they want? 0:20:43.876 --> 0:20:52.036 The former I'm granular, I'm granular down to font kerning, 0:20:53.196 --> 0:20:56.116 I'm I get down into like I don't like the 0:20:57.356 --> 0:21:01.556 shade of color that's underneath this body of text and 0:21:01.596 --> 0:21:04.636 we need to Yeah, can you change it? Like even 0:21:04.676 --> 0:21:06.876 the like the photos and stuff, I was like the 0:21:06.916 --> 0:21:09.476 thing we were, the thing we were, the color that 0:21:09.516 --> 0:21:12.516 we were wearing got like shifted a bit in the 0:21:12.516 --> 0:21:17.316 photo and like I want to pull out the change 0:21:17.356 --> 0:21:19.836 up the colors, to pull out more of those that palette. 0:21:20.356 --> 0:21:23.036 I love it, but it's also like I do have 0:21:23.116 --> 0:21:26.356 to like at a certain point cut myself off. That's 0:21:26.396 --> 0:21:30.956 just my personality. I have to like intentionally stop, yeah, 0:21:31.356 --> 0:21:35.996 getting into the weeds on things. I love our our 0:21:37.356 --> 0:21:39.916 the art that we that we make for our albums 0:21:39.956 --> 0:21:43.236 and for our merchandise and stuff. Joe and Frank and 0:21:43.316 --> 0:21:47.156 I like get you know, we we get so excited 0:21:47.236 --> 0:21:49.796 to do it and get in the weeds on how 0:21:49.836 --> 0:21:53.476 how to make it Like our dms, our texts, our 0:21:53.516 --> 0:21:59.916 Pinterest boards or whatever are chaotic, but but like very 0:22:00.156 --> 0:22:02.596 full of energy and full of life. 0:22:02.796 --> 0:22:06.156 So when you're bringing in a new lead singer, you also, 0:22:06.196 --> 0:22:10.156 since you're so visual, you also have to like their look. Yeah, 0:22:10.196 --> 0:22:13.156 so that makes it even harder. You could find someone 0:22:13.156 --> 0:22:18.636 who sounds incredible, who's incredible songwriter, right, but they have 0:22:18.716 --> 0:22:21.636 to have a look like she has such an awesome look. 0:22:23.196 --> 0:22:26.236 Yeah. Fortunate, it was very fortunate that we didn't have 0:22:26.276 --> 0:22:30.236 to worry about that with her. Yeah, Like that's my 0:22:30.276 --> 0:22:34.676 favorite thing. Actually, my favorite thing about about having about 0:22:34.676 --> 0:22:38.876 that part of our our band dynamic now is that 0:22:39.036 --> 0:22:44.196 when we're making a female item for like our web store, 0:22:44.636 --> 0:22:46.996 then I can just like shoot the things to them 0:22:47.356 --> 0:22:49.076 and be like, hey, do you like this? Would you 0:22:49.076 --> 0:22:50.836 wear this? Or like we sent her a bunch of 0:22:50.876 --> 0:22:53.836 blanks of T shirts and fits and whatever, and she's like, yeah, 0:22:53.876 --> 0:22:56.076 these these four are the good ones and the other 0:22:56.116 --> 0:22:59.156