WEBVTT - How did Sesame Street Change TV Forever? 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.680 Guess what mango? What's that? Well, so, probably five or 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:04.640 six years ago, I was walking down the street in 0:00:04.640 --> 0:00:06.720 New York and my family was with me, and we 0:00:06.800 --> 0:00:09.200 stumbled into some sort of film shoot right there in 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:12.600 midtown Manhattan, and we see Ben Stiller up ahead of us. 0:00:12.920 --> 0:00:14.800 So I asked my kids, do you know who that is? 0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:17.759 And they actually did recognize him. But take a guess 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:21.120 as to what role they remembered him from. Mmm, I'm 0:00:21.120 --> 0:00:23.440 gonna say like A Night at the Museum. Well, it's 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:26.160 a good guess, and they've definitely seen those movies. But actually, 0:00:26.239 --> 0:00:30.200 Penny Rose immediately started singing a cheese is a person 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:34.400 in your neighborhood, honestly so, and then William joined in, 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:38.080 so both she and William recognized him from that ridiculous 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:41.760 role that cameo that he made as the cheese on Sesame. 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:46.960 It really isn't. And what's wild is when you stop 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:49.800 to think about all the great songs from Sesame Street 0:00:49.840 --> 0:00:52.360 over the years, and just how my kids and George 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:55.120 and I all know every word to these songs, and 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:57.520 I know there are millions of others who could sing 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:00.800 right along with us. There's a song for every emotion. 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:04.640 In every situation you think about Oscars, I love Trash 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:08.280 or my favorite, the snuffle Lullaby You've got kurmits it's 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:11.160 not easy being green, or one of these things is 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:12.839 not like the other one. I mean, the list goes 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:14.760 on and on, and of course I don't want to 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:18.679 forget the song with the most ridiculous roster of cameos ever, 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:21.840 and that's put down the Ducky. I mean, I know 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:23.720 this sounds ridiculous, but do you remember the time, like 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:25.680 you and I and some of the people tried to 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:27.800 name all the cameos of the people who are in 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:31.120 this It's such a ridiculous list, and it felt like 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:33.000 we named a ton and yet I don't even think 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:35.840 we got halfway there. Just looking at the list again, 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:40.400 there was Gladys Night, James Taylor, John Candy, Pee Wee Herman, 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:43.759 Patty LaBelle, Martina ne Rattle, Loba. I mean, the list 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:45.720 goes on and on, but I think one of my 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:48.360 favorite things about it is just how all over the 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:50.880 place this list was. I know, and you almost get 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:53.280 the feeling like people were flattered to be asked to 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:56.160 be in it, right totally. I mean, can you imagine 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:57.960 that be like the highlight of a career to be 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:00.440 part of this song. But it's hard to believe that 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:03.000 Sesame Street will turn fifty next year. And there's no 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:06.040 telling how many kids have learned something from the show 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:08.280 over the years. And you know, we did that episode 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:10.880 about Mr Rogers a few months back and both of 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:13.360 us just had a blast doing it, So it seemed 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:15.720 time to do the same thing with Sesame Street. So 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:39.320 let's dive in. Hey, their podcast listeners, welcome to Part 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:42.000 Time Genius. I'm Will Pearson and as always I'm joined 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:44.120 by my good friend man Guesh Ticketer and on the 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:47.320 other side of the soundproof glass putting the finishing touches 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:50.680 on his own homemade muppet, that's our friend and producer 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:53.760 Tristan McNeil. Now, I don't want to hurt any feelings. 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:55.920 I do have to say it was a noble effort, 0:02:55.919 --> 0:02:58.240 but it's still kind of looks like a mop with 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:00.200 a pair of googly eyes slapped on it. I don't 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:02.960 know how you feel about it, I mean, to be fair, 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:04.919 that's kind of what a muffet is, right Like, I 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:09.520 actually remember this old Simpsons gag where Lisa asked what 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:12.720 a muppet is, and Homer says, well, it's not quite 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:15.880 a mop, and uh, it's not quite a puppet. So 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:19.680 to answer your question, I don't know. Well he wasn't 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:22.800 alone and not knowing, and in fact, even Muppet creator 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:26.200 Jim Henson wasn't so sure. Early in his career, Henson 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:28.919 said the word muppet was this combination of the words 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:32.240 marionette and puppet that would make a lot of sense. 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:35.720 But later interviews found Henson refuting that earlier claim and 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:38.360 instead insisting that it was just a fun, made up 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:41.160 word with no deeper meaning. But you know, the word 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:44.120 itself might not mean much, but the Muppets in the 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:46.840 world's they inhabit mean quite a lot to millions of 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:49.840 children and adults alike. So today we're going to celebrate 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:53.400 the impact by exploring the muppets original stomping grounds, which 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:56.080 of course is Sesame Street. Now we'll get a sense 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:58.040 for how the Landmark show got its start, as well 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:00.920 as what it's like to work behind in this case, 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:03.520 below the scenes, and along the way we'll learn a 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:05.920 little bit more about the humans and the Muppets who 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:08.760 call Sesame Street home. Yeah, but I almost feel like 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:10.360 we're getting a little ahead of ourselves with all his 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:13.440 muppet talk, because the way to Sesame Street wasn't actually 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:17.240 paid with felt puppets, but with a posh Manhattan dinner party. 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:20.480 And it sounds strange, But in nineteen sixty six, there 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:23.440 was this executive for the Carnegie Foundation whose name is 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:27.120 Lloyd Morrissett, and Lloyd struck up this conversation with this 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:31.320 friend of this, this public television producer named Joan Cooney, 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:34.359 and Morrissett told her that his daughter loved TV so 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:37.280 much that she'd actually memorized all her favorite commercials, like 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:40.200 she memorized the jingle she woke up early to watch TV. 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:42.719 She'd even wake up so early that she'd watched the 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:46.840 test patterns before the broadcast started. It's amazing. That's a 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:48.680 concept that I don't think kids that they could even 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:51.080 understand it all as like having to wait for some 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:55.159 of them. That's dedication. But the story kicked off this 0:04:55.279 --> 0:04:58.600 lengthy conversation between Morrissett and Cooney, and they started talking 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:02.240 about how TV could be aid both entertaining and educational 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:05.200 for young kids. So they wondered if those same flashy 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:08.120 techniques that were getting used to make ads for serial 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:11.239 and toys if those could also be used in educational ways, 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:13.960 you know, for things like, I guess, teaching the alphabet 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:17.080 or accounting numbers or whatever. And the two kept their 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:20.159 conversation going for about three years, and at the heart 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:23.960 of this conversation was this one guiding question, quote, what 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:28.000 if educational content went down more like ice cream than spinach? Right? 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:29.920 So this is where they were asking themselves over and over, 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:32.600 and to help answer this, Cooney actually wrote this paper 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:35.120 for the Carnegie Foundation in nineteen sixty seven. It was 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:39.520 titled the Potential Uses of TV and Preschool Education, and 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:42.159 the paper actually detailed a small amount of research that 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:44.480 had been done on the subject up until then, and 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:48.080 it also included Cooney's own thoughts from interviews with educators 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:51.479 and child psychologists about I guess what an educational program 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:54.080 for young kids could look like? So, so what kind 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:56.280 of stuff did the experts recommend? So I've actually got 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:59.520 a quote here, So Cooney wrote, nearly everyone I met 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:02.120 like the you have a daily hour long program, Almost 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:03.839 all of them one of the letters of the alphabet 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:07.400 and their sounds as well as numbers included. So they 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:09.799 took this feedback and they coupled it with this warm 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:12.680 response from the Carnegie Foundation, and all of this inspired 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:15.960 Cooney and Morrisset to co found the Children's Television Workshop, 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:19.240 and this was in Obviously later this gets renamed the 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:22.560 Sesame Workshop. But one thing Cooney's research hadn't helped with 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:26.360 was how exactly to convey that traditionally dry material in 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:29.159 this exciting way that they were talking about. So she 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:32.480 actually turned to this researcher, this children's researcher at University 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:36.000 of Michigan named Edward Palmer, and it was his insights 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:39.160 that helped shape how the show would eventually be structured. 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:42.040 So think about things like um, his findings showed that 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:45.520 kids loved music, they loved us slapstick comedy, they loved 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:50.280 watching animals and other children, but they also disliked unkind characters, 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:52.760 which was this new finding. And they were also board 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:56.760 stiff by talking adults, which you know, it sounds obvious 0:06:56.839 --> 0:06:59.679 in hindsight, but in the nineteen sixties, nobody would actually 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:02.479 put that thought into like what kids would or wouldn't 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:05.080 respond to on TV, or much less spelled it all 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:07.360 out for them. Yeah, I mean, looking back, Sesame Street 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:09.920 really was a pioneer in that regard, and it's pretty 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:12.600 clear how those findings would push the producers towards this 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:15.440 idea of using puppets. But actually read that at first, 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:17.760 Jim Henson wasn't even keen on the idea of doing 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:21.160 television for children at all. Yeah, that's right. So this 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:24.520 producer and writer named John Stone actually recommended Henson for 0:07:24.520 --> 0:07:28.080 the project. He'd worked earlier on this Cinderella adaptation that 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:30.800 I guess never made it to air, But like you said, 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:34.640 Henson wasn't interested. So he'd actually found success already using 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:37.640 his puppets on everything from like national commercials to the 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:41.280 Ed Sullivan Show and even a stint on SNL. Actually, 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:43.800 this is American Masters about Jim Henson that I've watched, 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:46.760 i'd say honestly, like a hundred times. And there's a 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:49.280 bit in it where he and his friends talk about 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:52.240 how they learned to write comedy from these old vaudeville 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:55.520 and cat skill comedians, from shows like Ed Sullivan. And 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:58.880 there's this great scene it's like Rolf where he's boxing 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:01.120 and he's boxing this bag and he's getting ready for 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:03.240 a fight, and he reveals his plans about how he's 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:05.760 going to tackle the fight, and he goes right cross, 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:08.720 left cross, right cross, left cross, right cross, left cross, 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:11.720 and he's just getting worked up, right, and then the 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:15.200 host goes for ralf what if he hits you and 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:17.840 raw flicks with the camera and goes red cross, blue cross. 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:22.680 I mean, it's such a catskill joke. But obviously, like 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:24.760 Jim Henson is starting to get better and better at 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:27.559 writing for adults and writing comedy, and making the switch 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:30.400 to show aimed strictly at children kind of felt like 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:33.439 a step back from him. It's interesting to think about 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:35.400 it being that way. You know, I've actually sometimes heard 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:38.560 Jim Henson described as the Walt Disney of puppets or 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:41.480 or maybe of public television, And you know, that strong 0:08:41.600 --> 0:08:44.240 drive to elevate the public perception of their art form 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:47.640 is probably another point of overlap. Do you remember that 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:51.239 story about Disney hating the idea of animation being pigeonholed 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:54.199 as you know, just children's entertainment. Of course, that's the 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:56.640 big reason why we have something like Fantasia in the 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:59.719 first place. And it kind of sounds like Hinson had 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:02.480 that same kind of chip on his shoulder, So I 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:04.760 know what you're saying. But that's actually really funny because 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:08.360 I love Fantasia, and I've read that Disney couldn't stay 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:11.440 awake during the screenings of it as much to it. 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:15.439 But you're right. In nine, shortly after taking the job 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:18.040 on Sesame Street, hence and actually told her reporter what 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:21.480 I'm against is people's thinking puppets are exclusively four children. 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:25.400 We've directed or work mostly towards adults, and historically puppets 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:28.320 have often been for adults. It's only fairly recently that 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:31.400 puppets have been pushed into strictly children's areas. As a 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:35.160 theater form, puppetry can do virtually anything, So I'm curious 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:38.480 what changed his mind about all of this. I mean 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:40.360 a lot of it was the pressure and pleading from 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:42.600 Cooney and the rest of the team there, and uh 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:45.000 Cuney was eventually able to win him over kind of 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:48.160 by pointing out that if Sesame Street became a success, 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:51.640 it could be leveraged into like securing funding for other projects. 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:54.200 So she actually told him, trust me, Jim, it's just 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:56.280 around the corner. You're not going to be stuck in 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:59.679 Little Kitty Entertainment. And she actually kept her promise like 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:03.040 less than a decade after Sesame Street premiered, Henson was 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:06.120 actually able to launch his own edgier project, a little 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:09.760 something called The Muffett Show. But back to Sesame So 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:13.080 the show actually launched with the preview episode called This 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:16.080 Way to Sesame Street, which aired on NBC on Saturday, 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:18.640 November eight at five pm. And this was in nine. 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:22.640 What you said this was? This was on NBC. I know, 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:25.439 it's crazy, right, So the series didn't air on PBS 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:28.360 until that following Monday, but the preview on Network TV 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:30.640 actually helped introduce the idea of the show to parents, 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:33.080 so they know when to tune in for regular episodes. 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:36.160 And this was actually a smart idea considering all the 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:38.520 stuff happening in the world at the time. So this 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:41.720 is back in November nine, so the moon landing had 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:44.559 just happened a few months earlier, Nixon was finishing his 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:47.720 first year in office, and the Zodiac Killer was dominating 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:50.960 national headlines. So it's almost easy to imagine the premiere 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:53.200 of a kid's show being lost in all the scuffle. 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:56.400 But thankfully, like the producers realized what a loss it 0:10:56.400 --> 0:10:58.800 would have been, and they actually took measures to make 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:01.760 sure Sesame Street got a fair shop, and actually they 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:03.440 weren't the only ones like that. The end of that 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:06.520 premiere episode actually featured in appearance by the U S 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:10.959 Commissioner of Education, and he told the audience Sesame Street 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:13.720 represents both the historic step forward by the medium of 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:18.240 TV and an equally significant innovation in mass education. In 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:21.440 plain words, there never has been before a nationwide TV 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:25.640 program designed especially to prepare young children for school. Next 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:27.920 week there will be. Yeah, that's why. And it really 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:31.080 wasn't an overstatement, and I hadn't really thought about it before. 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:33.120 But you know, Mr Rogers was on the air at 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:35.760 that point, but his show was never really aimed at 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:39.000 preparing kids for school, and it didn't follow any kind 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:41.520 of research based curriculum. You know, you look at something 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:45.320 like Sesame Street, where every episode is focused around one 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:48.800 piece of curriculum, and Mr Rogers was obviously grounded more 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:51.960 in psychology and emotions. And that's not a knock at 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:54.760 all against Mr Rogers. We've said before, we're huge fans 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:58.560 and both shows are super beneficial in their own right. Absolutely, 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:00.520 and speaking of iconic I I do want to talk 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:03.199 a little bit about some of the show's more famous aspects. 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:06.360 So for starters, there's the name itself. Apparently, the team 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:08.480 went through quite a few names before settling on the 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:11.640 right one. Some of the early contenders included one to 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:15.840 three Avenue B and incredibly generic Fund Street. The first 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:18.120 one was actually in the running, but it got taken 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:21.240 out because you know, Alphabet City, there's a real address 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:23.080 in New York that's one to three Avenue B and 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:26.160 produces where that it would have limited the appeal outside 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:28.280 of the city. Well, not to mention, you probably get 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:31.640 kids making pilgrimages to that address trying to find Big 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:33.680 Bird or their other favorite characters, and they're just being 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:37.400 devastated when they find like a laundrymat or something. Yeah, 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:39.520 I mean that's a good point. So it is lucky 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:42.480 for everyone that this woman Virginia shown was on staff 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:44.200 at the time and she's the one who suggested the 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:47.960 word sesame. She'd come across the phrase open sesame, you know, 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:51.120 from the Arabian Nights and Sinbad Sale, and uh, the 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:54.160 word kind of strucker as being evocative of these adventures 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:57.040 in generals. So the team coupled that with the show's 0:12:57.120 --> 0:13:00.280 urban setting and obviously came to Sesame Street. The odd 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:02.960 part is that they made the decision to like change 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:05.079 that to the title at the very last minute, and 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:07.640 obviously we're happy they did. Yeah, I'm glad they got 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:09.520 that straightened out. But you know, one of the most 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:12.520 iconic parts of the show to me has always been 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:14.839 its theme song, Can You Tell Me How to Get 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:18.000 to Sesame Street? And it's kind of upbeat and whistful 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:20.280 at the same time, and I guess it's really like 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:22.760 a lot of the music from the sixties and seventies, 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:25.400 but it's also got what his hands down, one of 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:28.199 the best uses of harmonica I have ever heard, and 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:31.959 I'm not joking. It may sounded like maybe, okay, maybe 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:33.640 it's a little bit of an exaggeration, but it was 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:37.800 still pretty awesome Top ten at least. Then it's performed 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:41.160 by this jazz and blues legend named Jane Toots Feelman's. 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:43.400 You know, he had this great career playing with all 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:45.760 the grades everybody from I was just looking at the list, 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:49.240 You're like Miles Davis, Ella Fantzgerald, Charlie Parker, and it's 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:51.480 just pretty incredible to see who all he played with. 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:54.960 But despite all that success, two, it's always had this 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:57.680 soft spot for his work on Sesame Street. He was 0:13:57.720 --> 0:13:59.400 interviewed back in two thousand and eight and he said 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:01.600 about it, my playing on the Sesame Street theme has 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:05.000 always been an important reward on my lapel. That's awesome. 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:07.040 But you know someone who doesn't look back at the 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:10.480 song quite so finally, that's Jon Stone. He's that same 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:12.920 producer we talked about earlier who helped Jim Henson get 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:16.040 on board here. But uh, Stone actually co wrote the 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:19.440 theme song with Bruce Hart and this composer Joe Raposa. 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:22.720 He'd wanted the song to capture that sense of running, 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:26.520 happily tumbling, playing along the way, but always intent on 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:29.440 getting to Sesame Street. And you know, I mean that's 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:30.720 what I think of when I think of the song, 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:32.960 and I think about like those old versions of Barkley 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:35.760 romping along and them all running and uh, you know, 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:37.960 I I'd say the song was a huge success, but 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:41.320 looking back, Stone was actually pretty unhappy with the trio's work, 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:44.520 or at least the lyrics, which he co wrote. He's 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:47.160 actually gone on records saying that the lyrics are trite 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:50.960 and thoughtless, full of happy little cliches like the lions 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:54.280 sunny day sweeping the clouds away. All Right. I mean, 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:56.640 maybe that's a little bit cliche, but I feel like 0:14:56.680 --> 0:14:59.160 that's a little harsh. It's it's not exactly Shakespeare. But 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:02.280 I don't feel like it's bad. I know. But my 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:05.120 favorite of his criticisms was that some of the references 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:08.360 would eventually feel dated. Like apparently he scoffed at the 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:12.520 phrase everything's a okay because he considered it quote astronauts 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:21.160 slang slang. What's the guy against astronaut? Alright, alright, well, 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:23.640 since we're taking a backstage look at Sesame Street, we 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:26.640 should definitely talk about the talented puppeteers who helped bring 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:29.680 the show's most colorful stars to life. But before we 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:46.920 get to that, let's take a quick break. You're listening 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:48.640 to Part Time Genius and we're talking about the story 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:51.600 of how we got to Sesame Street. All right, Mago, 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:53.680 so let's take a few minutes to highlight the humble 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:56.600 muppeteer that that's the unseen men and women who bring 0:15:56.760 --> 0:16:00.040 these muppets to life. Yeah. So, one thing I and 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:02.160 thought about before doing the research this week is just 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:05.960 how much of those characters personalities only exist because of 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:08.760 the puppeteers, Like it isn't just that they control the 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:12.280 characters movements. Puppeteers on Sesame Street also provide the voices 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:14.440 for all of their characters. Yeah, that's right. I mean 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:16.680 the way that it works in most cases is that 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:19.760 you have a puppeteer crouched on the floor out of shot, 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:22.320 of course, and their arms are above their heads to 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:24.920 be able to control the limbs and the mouth flaps 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:28.040 of you know, whatever character they're performing. I meanwhile, the 0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:32.080 puppeteers also speaking all of their lines in character. They're 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:34.320 interacting with the adults and the children who are in 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:37.360 the scene, and many of those are not even trained actors, 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:40.440 so they're having to hit all their choreograph movements, they're 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:42.960 having to keep track of where the cameras pointed. I mean, 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:45.400 it's an insane amount of work just to bring one 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:48.040 of these muppet characters to life. And then something you 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:50.640 don't really think about is that, in addition to all 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:53.720 of these characters, you've got these puppeteers that have to 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:56.320 avoid bumping into each other. I mean, it's it's twice 0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:58.680 as many as you see on screen there, and so 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:01.720 it's it's it's a lot of ordered chaos as they're 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:04.760 organizing all of this. It is really impressive, and I 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:06.960 mean in some cases it's even more complicated than what 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:10.159 you just described. Actually, before we go into that, I 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:12.480 wanted to tell you about this time. I was in 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:14.600 San Francisco a few years ago and I was with 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:17.200 my kid cousin and I saw that Brian Henson was 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:21.040 doing this like adults Muffets show, and so I dragged 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:24.119 my cousin along and it was great. But at the 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:26.600 end of it there was this huge finale and it 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:29.120 was wonderful where all the muppets like sang in unison 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:31.359 and then they decided to do an encore and the 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:33.920 muppeteers took the puppets off and did it all again 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:37.280 with their bare hands, and uh, it was really incredible. 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:39.000 Like I can't tell you how amazing was to watch 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:42.960 these hands like basically communicating all this emotion and singing 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:45.280 and you were just looking at fingers and it was 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:48.080 almost like, uh, I know you know this, but like 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:50.359 Eddie Izzard and dressed to kill, Like when when he 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:52.280 does this show in English and then for an encore 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:54.800 he does the same show in French. I mean you're 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:57.480 almost like more amazed by watching him reenact it and 0:17:57.680 --> 0:17:59.840 like how you were laughing at this act that's now 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:02.679 in this like different language. I mean, that was one 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:04.840 of my favorite things to watch. I love that. It 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:08.320 really is incredible. But back to the puppet. So Gabe 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:10.440 basically pulled a veil on this for me. And there's 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:13.240 three different kinds of puppets on Sesame Street. So the 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:15.960 first two are rod puppets, and these are like Almo 0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:19.320 and Kermit, and then arm puppets like Cookie Monster, which 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:21.639 worked the way you said. So with the rod puppet, 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:23.800 the performer has one of their hands inside the character 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:26.280 to control its head, and their free hand controls a 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:28.800 rod that's attached to the character's arms. And with an 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:31.560 arm puppet, it's one hand inside the head and one 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:34.240 hand inside the character's arms. So of course this works 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:37.159 best with puppets that have thicker arms, like a Cookie 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:40.280 Monster or Ernie. But then there's also a third kind 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:43.120 of puppet, and that's a totally different level. Like that's 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:45.560 the wearable ones where performer actually has to like climb 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:48.400 inside a body suit. All right, so you're talking about 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:50.720 characters like Big Bird or for instance, one of my 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:54.880 favorites Snuphilopagus exactly. So Big Bird's an interesting case because 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:58.320 he's actually a hybrid wearable arm puppet. So the performer 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:00.399 puts on Big Bird's legs like a pair of pants, 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:03.520 and then the body's lowered over him, and one hand 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:05.480 goes straight up through the neck to control the head, 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:07.879 and the other hand goes into one of Big Bird's wings. 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:10.480 And believe it or not, it was just one guy, 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:13.720 Carol Spinney, who did all of Big Birds puppeteering and 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:16.399 voice work for over forty five years. And today it's 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:19.240 one of his former students, this guy named Matt Vogel, 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:22.280 who wears the big yellow suit. That is pretty amazing. 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:25.359 He did that character for forty five years. And you know, 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:27.880 it's a credit to the performers for making those characters 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:30.600 seem so real. I mean so much so that even 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:32.919 as an adult now it does feel a little bit 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:36.240 strange to think about real people inside those characters. I 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:38.600 know I feel that way too. But why don't we 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:41.200 leave the puppeteers for a second and uh focus on 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:43.960 the characters themselves. So to start off, I I do 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:46.320 want to read this quote from this fantastic book on 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:49.639 Sesame Street history called Street Gang. It's by Michael Davis, 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:52.600 but in this part he's talking about what Henson and 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:54.480 his muppets brought to the show and what made it 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:58.600