1
00:01:09,389 --> 00:01:12,669
Speaker 1: Hey, dear therapist listeners, it's Lori and Guy, and we

2
00:01:12,699 --> 00:01:13,559
Speaker 1: have a quick update.

3
00:01:13,839 --> 00:01:16,039
Speaker 2: Many of you have told us that you get something

4
00:01:16,099 --> 00:01:18,459
Speaker 2: new out of each episode when you listen to it

5
00:01:18,499 --> 00:01:21,819
Speaker 2: again the second or third time. In fact, when we

6
00:01:21,859 --> 00:01:24,789
Speaker 2: listen to the episodes again, we also get takeaways we

7
00:01:24,829 --> 00:01:25,829
Speaker 2: didn't remember were there.

8
00:01:26,109 --> 00:01:28,849
Speaker 1: Therapy is like that too. There are so many learning

9
00:01:28,889 --> 00:01:31,429
Speaker 1: moments in a session and it's difficult to absorb them

10
00:01:31,489 --> 00:01:34,369
Speaker 1: all at once. So while we're not taping new episodes

11
00:01:34,449 --> 00:01:38,029
Speaker 1: right now, we are offering you our most popular sessions

12
00:01:38,129 --> 00:01:41,029
Speaker 1: as encores so that you can continue to gain value

13
00:01:41,069 --> 00:01:41,449
Speaker 1: from them.

14
00:01:41,789 --> 00:01:45,299
Speaker 2: We love doing Dear Therapists episodes, but we're each busy

15
00:01:45,339 --> 00:01:47,979
Speaker 2: with new and exciting projects and that we hope you

16
00:01:48,019 --> 00:01:49,119
Speaker 2: will love just as much.

17
00:01:49,539 --> 00:01:52,659
Speaker 1: I have a new advice podcast called Since You Asked,

18
00:01:52,839 --> 00:01:55,139
Speaker 1: which you can get wherever you listen to podcasts.

19
00:01:55,399 --> 00:01:58,149
Speaker 2: And I have a new book coming out. It's called

20
00:01:58,569 --> 00:02:02,909
Speaker 2: Mind Over Grind, How to Break Free When Work Hijacks

21
00:02:02,929 --> 00:02:06,049
Speaker 2: Your Life. And it will be published by Simon & Schuster.

22
00:02:06,489 --> 00:02:09,719
Speaker 2: You can find out more about it on my website, guywench.com.

23
00:02:10,309 --> 00:02:13,469
Speaker 1: You can learn more about these on our socials. And meanwhile,

24
00:02:13,769 --> 00:02:16,609
Speaker 1: we hope you find these Dear Therapist sessions as valuable

25
00:02:16,649 --> 00:02:23,599
Speaker 1: as we have making them for you. I'm Lori Gottlieb.

26
00:02:23,839 --> 00:02:25,919
Speaker 1: I'm the author of Maybe You Should Talk to Someone.

27
00:02:26,279 --> 00:02:29,059
Speaker 1: And I write the Dear Therapist advice column for The Atlantic.

28
00:02:29,299 --> 00:02:32,459
Speaker 2: And I'm Guy Winch. I'm the author of Emotional First Aid.

29
00:02:32,819 --> 00:02:34,959
Speaker 2: And I write the Dear Guy advice column for TED.

30
00:02:35,359 --> 00:02:37,019
Speaker 2: And this is Dear Therapists.

31
00:02:37,619 --> 00:02:39,989
Speaker 1: Each week, we invite you into a real session where

32
00:02:40,009 --> 00:02:42,749
Speaker 1: we help people confront their biggest problems and then give

33
00:02:42,769 --> 00:02:45,609
Speaker 1: them actionable advice and hear about the changes they've made

34
00:02:45,629 --> 00:02:46,289
Speaker 1: in their lives.

35
00:02:46,709 --> 00:02:51,429
Speaker 2: So sit back and welcome to today's session. This week,

36
00:02:51,909 --> 00:02:54,709
Speaker 2: a woman who loves her husband worries about his anger

37
00:02:54,749 --> 00:02:57,719
Speaker 2: toward their young children and considers whether she should leave

38
00:02:57,779 --> 00:02:58,659
Speaker 2: him to protect them.

39
00:02:59,119 --> 00:03:01,179
Speaker 3: It's not healthy for our daughter.

40
00:03:01,199 --> 00:03:03,639
Speaker 4: You need to get therapy or we're going to leave

41
00:03:03,659 --> 00:03:04,919
Speaker 4: so that I can protect her.

42
00:03:06,019 --> 00:03:10,239
Speaker 2: First, a quick note. Dear Therapists is for informational purposes only,

43
00:03:10,559 --> 00:03:13,799
Speaker 2: does not constitute medical or psychological advice, and is not

44
00:03:13,839 --> 00:03:18,419
Speaker 2: a substitute for professional healthcare advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always

45
00:03:18,459 --> 00:03:21,419
Speaker 2: seek the advice of your physician, mental health professional, or

46
00:03:21,519 --> 00:03:24,569
Speaker 2: other qualified health provider with any questions you may have

47
00:03:24,629 --> 00:03:28,449
Speaker 2: regarding a medical or psychological condition. By submitting a letter,

48
00:03:28,489 --> 00:03:30,889
Speaker 2: you are agreeing to let iHeartMedia use it in part

49
00:03:30,949 --> 00:03:33,249
Speaker 2: or in full, and we may edit it for length

50
00:03:33,269 --> 00:03:35,789
Speaker 2: and clarity. In the sessions you'll hear, all names have

51
00:03:35,829 --> 00:03:37,529
Speaker 2: been changed for the privacy of our guests.

52
00:03:40,469 --> 00:03:40,969
Speaker 5: Hey, Lori.

53
00:03:41,529 --> 00:03:42,319
Speaker 1: Hey, Guy.

54
00:03:43,169 --> 00:03:44,929
Speaker 2: So what do we have in our mailbox today?

55
00:03:45,269 --> 00:03:47,009
Speaker 1: So today we have a letter from a woman who's

56
00:03:47,069 --> 00:03:51,659
Speaker 1: having some difficulty in her relationship, and it goes like this.

57
00:03:52,639 --> 00:03:55,979
Speaker 1: Dear Lori and Guy, I'm in a really difficult position

58
00:03:56,119 --> 00:03:58,819
Speaker 1: in a relationship that started off five years ago as

59
00:03:58,879 --> 00:04:02,709
Speaker 1: a spontaneous whirlwind romance that and has only mildly dampened

60
00:04:02,729 --> 00:04:06,309
Speaker 1: with time and two young children, a three-year-old daughter and

61
00:04:06,349 --> 00:04:10,009
Speaker 1: a five-month-old son. I am still in love with my boyfriend, Jake,

62
00:04:10,289 --> 00:04:13,599
Speaker 1: and enjoy spending time together and as a family. The

63
00:04:13,659 --> 00:04:17,059
Speaker 1: problem is that during my second pregnancy and postpartum, his

64
00:04:17,119 --> 00:04:19,999
Speaker 1: parenting style towards our oldest has changed, and he is

65
00:04:20,099 --> 00:04:23,159
Speaker 1: quick to lash out at her verbally and emotionally. He

66
00:04:23,199 --> 00:04:26,919
Speaker 1: is intolerant of her age-typical boundary testing and tantrums, and

67
00:04:26,969 --> 00:04:28,549
Speaker 1: I can see the harm done by the way he

68
00:04:28,609 --> 00:04:32,309
Speaker 1: handles this. Playing referee and mediator between what feels like

69
00:04:32,349 --> 00:04:35,909
Speaker 1: two toddlers is exhausting, especially while caring for an infant.

70
00:04:36,539 --> 00:04:38,339
Speaker 1: It's like I don't have a partner to help share

71
00:04:38,379 --> 00:04:41,759
Speaker 1: the load. His nasty demeanor towards our daughter has made

72
00:04:41,799 --> 00:04:43,699
Speaker 1: me think more than once that I should leave him.

73
00:04:44,039 --> 00:04:46,939
Speaker 1: But paradoxically, I feel this will end up with him

74
00:04:47,019 --> 00:04:49,939
Speaker 1: having more one-on-one time due to a custody agreement where

75
00:04:50,019 --> 00:04:52,379
Speaker 1: I will be unable to do damage control and intervene.

76
00:04:53,099 --> 00:04:55,799
Speaker 1: There's no abuse and I recognize the value of having

77
00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,939
Speaker 1: time with their dad so sole custody doesn't seem realistic

78
00:04:58,999 --> 00:05:03,139
Speaker 1: or healthiest. I've approached Jake about couples counseling, him getting

79
00:05:03,239 --> 00:05:05,759
Speaker 1: anger management counseling, and even let him know I was

80
00:05:05,819 --> 00:05:09,639
Speaker 1: considering leaving. These resulted in tears on his end and

81
00:05:09,699 --> 00:05:12,479
Speaker 1: promises to try to get better, but nothing has changed.

82
00:05:13,239 --> 00:05:15,689
Speaker 1: I feel paralyzed and I'm not sure what arrangement would

83
00:05:15,699 --> 00:05:18,329
Speaker 1: be best for the kids. I also wonder if breaking

84
00:05:18,409 --> 00:05:20,689
Speaker 1: up would be healthiest for me because if I'm worrying

85
00:05:20,729 --> 00:05:23,209
Speaker 1: about the kids the entire time they're with him, maybe

86
00:05:23,229 --> 00:05:26,369
Speaker 1: it wouldn't be. I would greatly appreciate any help figuring

87
00:05:26,389 --> 00:05:28,569
Speaker 1: this out. Sincerely, Becca.

88
00:05:30,149 --> 00:05:33,219
Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting because Becca says that there's no abuse,

89
00:05:33,299 --> 00:05:38,019
Speaker 2: but lashing out at children verbally is a form of

90
00:05:38,059 --> 00:05:40,939
Speaker 2: emotional abuse or certainly can be when it's harsh and

91
00:05:40,979 --> 00:05:44,179
Speaker 2: it goes on over time. So I'm really glad that

92
00:05:44,239 --> 00:05:47,689
Speaker 2: Jake is actually joining us today because it sounds like

93
00:05:47,729 --> 00:05:50,269
Speaker 2: something we really need to talk to both parents about

94
00:05:50,789 --> 00:05:52,769
Speaker 2: to get an understanding of what's going on and why

95
00:05:52,849 --> 00:05:53,969
Speaker 2: and what can change there.

96
00:05:54,629 --> 00:05:58,109
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Emotional violence is abuse and it has long

97
00:05:58,149 --> 00:06:01,459
Speaker 1: lasting effects. And it can be very traumatic, especially when

98
00:06:01,499 --> 00:06:05,009
Speaker 1: it's ongoing. And when it's ongoing, we call that complex

99
00:06:05,049 --> 00:06:08,309
Speaker 1: trauma because it's not one event, it's multiple events happening

100
00:06:08,769 --> 00:06:13,149
Speaker 1: all the time. And it sounds like Jake realizes that

101
00:06:13,829 --> 00:06:17,229
Speaker 1: something needs to change, but he's having trouble doing the changing.

102
00:06:17,269 --> 00:06:18,789
Speaker 1: And that's why I think it's important that we're having

103
00:06:18,829 --> 00:06:19,529
Speaker 1: both of them on.

104
00:06:20,119 --> 00:06:23,579
Speaker 2: Every day we see in our offices, people who've had

105
00:06:23,859 --> 00:06:26,679
Speaker 2: an experience in childhood in which their parents would yell

106
00:06:26,739 --> 00:06:29,519
Speaker 2: at them or speak to them very, very harshly. And

107
00:06:29,699 --> 00:06:31,699
Speaker 2: they're very damaged by that. So we really have to

108
00:06:31,739 --> 00:06:35,249
Speaker 2: be very clear that how parents speak to their children

109
00:06:35,399 --> 00:06:38,429
Speaker 2: does have a big impact. It doesn't require physical abuse

110
00:06:38,489 --> 00:06:41,329
Speaker 2: to leave a scar. Let's talk to them. Yeah, let's

111
00:06:41,369 --> 00:06:41,669
Speaker 2: do that.

112
00:06:44,329 --> 00:06:47,819
Speaker 1: You're listening to Dear Therapist from iHeartRadio. We'll be back

113
00:06:47,899 --> 00:06:57,619
Speaker 1: after a short break. I'm Lori Gottlieb.

114
00:06:58,019 --> 00:07:00,919
Speaker 2: And I'm Guy Winch. And this is Dear Therapists.

115
00:07:03,429 --> 00:07:06,289
Speaker 1: So hi, Becca. Hi, Jake. Hi.

116
00:07:06,709 --> 00:07:07,749
Speaker 2: Thank you for coming on the show.

117
00:07:07,989 --> 00:07:08,729
Speaker 6: Thank you for having us.

118
00:07:09,709 --> 00:07:12,299
Speaker 1: So we're glad both of you are here because this

119
00:07:12,359 --> 00:07:14,939
Speaker 1: is an experience that is going on between the two

120
00:07:14,999 --> 00:07:16,769
Speaker 1: of you. And I think before we get to the

121
00:07:16,809 --> 00:07:19,769
Speaker 1: problem that you wrote in about, Becca, with your daughter,

122
00:07:19,799 --> 00:07:23,859
Speaker 1: we wanted to understand a little bit more about earlier

123
00:07:24,039 --> 00:07:27,239
Speaker 1: in your relationship and how you decided to have kids.

124
00:07:27,259 --> 00:07:29,439
Speaker 1: It sounds like you said it was a whirlwind. Everything

125
00:07:29,479 --> 00:07:33,169
Speaker 1: happened very quickly. And since we heard from you already, Becca, Jake,

126
00:07:33,209 --> 00:07:34,889
Speaker 1: why don't you tell us a little bit about your

127
00:07:34,929 --> 00:07:38,149
Speaker 1: experience of early in the relationship and then the first

128
00:07:38,589 --> 00:07:41,229
Speaker 1: pregnancy and first experience of being a parent?

129
00:07:42,409 --> 00:07:46,179
Speaker 6: So none of it was planned. Actually, Becca called me

130
00:07:46,199 --> 00:07:49,219
Speaker 6: and sprung the news on me that she found out

131
00:07:49,599 --> 00:07:52,079
Speaker 6: she was pregnant. So that was a very big shock.

132
00:07:52,359 --> 00:07:53,859
Speaker 6: Came completely out of left field.

133
00:07:54,939 --> 00:07:57,099
Speaker 1: When you say it was a shock, was it a

134
00:07:57,339 --> 00:08:00,239
Speaker 1: good shock, a scary shock? What kind of shock?

135
00:08:01,119 --> 00:08:05,009
Speaker 6: Scary for sure. I didn't really think I was going

136
00:08:05,019 --> 00:08:07,549
Speaker 6: to possibly even ever have kids. It was something that

137
00:08:07,709 --> 00:08:12,209
Speaker 6: wasn't really thought about that much. I was all about

138
00:08:12,229 --> 00:08:20,379
Speaker 6: having fun. Cars, motorcycles, friends. Never really gave, I guess,

139
00:08:20,419 --> 00:08:23,099
Speaker 6: fatherhood a serious thought.

140
00:08:24,839 --> 00:08:26,359
Speaker 1: How old were you at the time?

141
00:08:26,379 --> 00:08:30,299
Speaker 4: I was 25 when we met, so you would have

142
00:08:30,939 --> 00:08:31,309
Speaker 4: been 29.

143
00:08:31,309 --> 00:08:31,679
Speaker 6: 29? 29.

144
00:08:31,679 --> 00:08:34,419
Speaker 2: Jake, how did you come to terms then, given this

145
00:08:34,459 --> 00:08:36,409
Speaker 2: was such a shock? You weren't even thinking you might

146
00:08:36,509 --> 00:08:38,969
Speaker 2: have kids. Now you find out you have one on

147
00:08:39,009 --> 00:08:41,769
Speaker 2: the way. Tell us how you adapted to that. What

148
00:08:41,789 --> 00:08:43,289
Speaker 2: was the process for you?

149
00:08:44,849 --> 00:08:47,929
Speaker 6: I don't really know what the process was. Just kind

150
00:08:47,949 --> 00:08:50,469
Speaker 6: of went with the flow. It was definitely scary the

151
00:08:50,509 --> 00:08:54,819
Speaker 6: entire time, you know, going from possibly never having kids

152
00:08:54,879 --> 00:08:57,839
Speaker 6: to all of a sudden within the next nine months

153
00:08:57,899 --> 00:08:59,839
Speaker 6: or so, I'm going to have a little tiny little baby.

154
00:09:01,059 --> 00:09:03,059
Speaker 1: How long had you known each other at that point?

155
00:09:04,099 --> 00:09:04,799
Speaker 5: Eight or nine months.

156
00:09:06,219 --> 00:09:08,999
Speaker 1: So given how new the relationship was, had the two

157
00:09:09,039 --> 00:09:12,279
Speaker 1: of you talked about having a future together or was

158
00:09:12,319 --> 00:09:14,399
Speaker 1: that not even on the table at that point in

159
00:09:14,419 --> 00:09:15,159
Speaker 1: the relationship?

160
00:09:15,639 --> 00:09:17,929
Speaker 6: Yeah, we definitely had the conversation of having a future together.

161
00:09:18,749 --> 00:09:22,329
Speaker 6: Becca's lease where she was living was coming to an

162
00:09:22,429 --> 00:09:25,569
Speaker 6: end and so was mine. We were starting to discuss

163
00:09:25,589 --> 00:09:28,489
Speaker 6: getting an apartment together. I don't recall if that was

164
00:09:28,529 --> 00:09:32,269
Speaker 6: before or after finding out about Isabella, but I did

165
00:09:32,309 --> 00:09:37,209
Speaker 6: know going into... her line of work that we would

166
00:09:37,249 --> 00:09:41,039
Speaker 6: potentially have to be relocated at some point. And I

167
00:09:41,069 --> 00:09:42,639
Speaker 6: was on board from the beginning.

168
00:09:43,539 --> 00:09:47,119
Speaker 1: Jake, it sounds like you really didn't think about a

169
00:09:47,159 --> 00:09:50,139
Speaker 1: future with kids. Becca, did you think about a future

170
00:09:50,179 --> 00:09:53,039
Speaker 1: with kids? And if so, did Jake know that you

171
00:09:53,059 --> 00:09:54,319
Speaker 1: thought about a future with kids?

172
00:09:56,579 --> 00:09:57,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, I.

173
00:09:57,779 --> 00:09:59,639
Speaker 4: Actually, initially I had the thought that I would have

174
00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:03,339
Speaker 4: like four or five kids someday. When Jake and I met,

175
00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:05,059
Speaker 4: it was, as I kind of mentioned, kind of like

176
00:10:05,099 --> 00:10:09,559
Speaker 4: a whirlwind because we spent like pretty much every day

177
00:10:09,619 --> 00:10:12,899
Speaker 4: together for the first six months, went on all these adventures,

178
00:10:12,959 --> 00:10:16,979
Speaker 4: had a ton of fun. The idea of having kids

179
00:10:17,199 --> 00:10:19,759
Speaker 4: eventually like kind of came up in a lighthearted way.

180
00:10:19,779 --> 00:10:22,779
Speaker 4: Like we were looking over text messages the other day

181
00:10:22,819 --> 00:10:25,899
Speaker 4: and one was like, he had messaged me like, oh,

182
00:10:25,959 --> 00:10:28,239
Speaker 4: if we do have kids, they would be Gerber babies.

183
00:10:28,299 --> 00:10:30,819
Speaker 4: They'd be so cute. But we never had like a

184
00:10:30,899 --> 00:10:34,999
Speaker 4: serious conversation about it. And I think like from a

185
00:10:35,039 --> 00:10:38,259
Speaker 4: relationship perspective, I think the first or the second night

186
00:10:38,299 --> 00:10:41,059
Speaker 4: we met, I told him that I was in medical

187
00:10:41,099 --> 00:10:44,139
Speaker 4: school at the time. And I was like, oh, you know,

188
00:10:44,179 --> 00:10:47,119
Speaker 4: in a few months when I match, I have no

189
00:10:47,159 --> 00:10:49,279
Speaker 4: control over where I go. So I don't know if

190
00:10:49,319 --> 00:10:51,239
Speaker 4: we should get into anything. And he was like, oh,

191
00:10:51,279 --> 00:10:53,749
Speaker 4: I'll follow you wherever you go. So I think there

192
00:10:53,789 --> 00:10:56,189
Speaker 4: was like a pretty intense connection early on.

193
00:10:57,169 --> 00:11:01,079
Speaker 1: So when you texted Becca about having Gerber babies together,

194
00:11:01,259 --> 00:11:03,339
Speaker 1: was there a part of you that thought maybe you

195
00:11:03,399 --> 00:11:04,179
Speaker 1: did want kids?

196
00:11:04,999 --> 00:11:06,489
Speaker 6: I think if I was going to have them, it

197
00:11:06,509 --> 00:11:09,109
Speaker 6: would have been later on. Like I said earlier, I

198
00:11:09,129 --> 00:11:11,569
Speaker 6: was still having a lot of fun. At the time,

199
00:11:11,609 --> 00:11:14,009
Speaker 6: I was living with a couple of my good friends,

200
00:11:14,249 --> 00:11:17,529
Speaker 6: working Monday through Friday and Saturday and Sundays, having a

201
00:11:17,569 --> 00:11:20,939
Speaker 6: blast going on guys trips here and there and seriously

202
00:11:20,979 --> 00:11:24,379
Speaker 6: thinking about settling down with a family and children was

203
00:11:25,339 --> 00:11:26,959
Speaker 6: definitely way in the back of my mind.

204
00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:30,539
Speaker 2: Jake, so tell me about the discussion between the two

205
00:11:30,579 --> 00:11:32,979
Speaker 2: of you when you get that phone call. Since you

206
00:11:33,019 --> 00:11:36,739
Speaker 2: were so blindsided by it, what was the discussion like

207
00:11:36,759 --> 00:11:38,459
Speaker 2: between the two of you about the fact that this

208
00:11:38,499 --> 00:11:40,119
Speaker 2: is happening and how you felt about it?

209
00:11:41,669 --> 00:11:45,869
Speaker 6: It was scary, for sure, getting that information. I didn't

210
00:11:45,909 --> 00:11:47,789
Speaker 6: know the first thing about kids. I didn't have any

211
00:11:47,809 --> 00:11:51,369
Speaker 6: brothers or sisters. I was an only child. The closest

212
00:11:51,419 --> 00:11:55,479
Speaker 6: thing to being around a baby was my cousins and.

213
00:11:57,839 --> 00:11:58,699
Speaker 6: There's a lot to learn.

214
00:11:59,259 --> 00:12:01,799
Speaker 2: So Becca, tell us what happened between the two of you.

215
00:12:02,759 --> 00:12:05,499
Speaker 4: It wasn't something that we thought that deeply about because

216
00:12:05,699 --> 00:12:08,149
Speaker 4: I was on birth control. So I didn't really think

217
00:12:08,189 --> 00:12:10,509
Speaker 4: it was a possibility. And I was very faithful. I

218
00:12:10,629 --> 00:12:13,969
Speaker 4: had an alarm in my phone, was not planning on

219
00:12:13,989 --> 00:12:18,509
Speaker 4: getting pregnant. So when I started having symptoms, I was

220
00:12:18,569 --> 00:12:20,989
Speaker 4: away and I was like, okay, let me just take

221
00:12:21,049 --> 00:12:23,669
Speaker 4: a test just to put my mind at ease. And

222
00:12:23,709 --> 00:12:26,579
Speaker 4: when it was positive, I know I started crying. I

223
00:12:26,599 --> 00:12:28,099
Speaker 4: called my best friend and I was like, I don't

224
00:12:28,119 --> 00:12:31,429
Speaker 4: really know what to do. Should I tell Jake now

225
00:12:31,789 --> 00:12:34,529
Speaker 4: or should I wait until he comes to visit next weekend?

226
00:12:35,129 --> 00:12:37,109
Speaker 4: She had said, you know, if it was me, I'd

227
00:12:37,149 --> 00:12:40,899
Speaker 4: probably want to know as soon as possible. So I

228
00:12:40,949 --> 00:12:43,739
Speaker 4: called him and he was definitely really shocked by the news.

229
00:12:43,799 --> 00:12:47,719
Speaker 4: He's normally a very talkative person and it was pretty silent,

230
00:12:48,019 --> 00:12:51,839
Speaker 4: but he said like, okay, I just need a little

231
00:12:51,859 --> 00:12:53,859
Speaker 4: bit of time to think about this, but whatever you

232
00:12:53,889 --> 00:12:56,409
Speaker 4: want to do. And over the next couple of weeks

233
00:12:56,869 --> 00:12:59,679
Speaker 4: when we talked, it just seemed like he was very

234
00:12:59,709 --> 00:13:02,419
Speaker 4: much like, okay, balls in your court, Becca, whatever you

235
00:13:02,439 --> 00:13:05,739
Speaker 4: want to do, I'm behind you a hundred percent. So

236
00:13:05,999 --> 00:13:07,779
Speaker 4: I thought about it and I decided, you know, I

237
00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,699
Speaker 4: did want to have multiple kids and it might not

238
00:13:12,759 --> 00:13:16,799
Speaker 4: be the most ideal circumstance, but I really felt like

239
00:13:16,819 --> 00:13:19,889
Speaker 4: I had a great connection with Jake and could see

240
00:13:19,929 --> 00:13:24,719
Speaker 4: a future together. So we talked and And he was

241
00:13:24,779 --> 00:13:27,559
Speaker 4: okay with us kind of moving forward, deciding to keep

242
00:13:27,579 --> 00:13:28,019
Speaker 4: the baby.

243
00:13:29,459 --> 00:13:33,949
Speaker 1: Did you understand how Jake felt? Or was the messaging

244
00:13:33,969 --> 00:13:38,649
Speaker 1: you were getting just, whatever you decide, I'm here? But

245
00:13:38,689 --> 00:13:42,939
Speaker 1: did you understand more of all of the ambivalence and

246
00:13:43,499 --> 00:13:45,579
Speaker 1: terror that he was experiencing?

247
00:13:47,759 --> 00:13:49,479
Speaker 3: I don't think so. I don't think I knew that

248
00:13:49,519 --> 00:13:50,419
Speaker 3: he was scared.

249
00:13:51,249 --> 00:13:53,529
Speaker 4: I thought there might be like some remorse over like

250
00:13:53,609 --> 00:13:55,929
Speaker 4: the loss of the life that he was getting to live.

251
00:13:55,949 --> 00:13:59,469
Speaker 4: I got definitely the remorse for that part of his life.

252
00:14:00,369 --> 00:14:03,129
Speaker 4: But I didn't know that he was scared until today, actually.

253
00:14:04,189 --> 00:14:05,829
Speaker 1: Jake, why didn't you share that with her?

254
00:14:06,549 --> 00:14:08,169
Speaker 6: When she had a lot on her plate, as it

255
00:14:08,209 --> 00:14:12,819
Speaker 6: was going through med school. And I guess it was

256
00:14:13,219 --> 00:14:17,979
Speaker 6: my burden to carry, to deal with. definitely not one

257
00:14:18,039 --> 00:14:20,699
Speaker 6: to i guess share my feelings and put my feelings

258
00:14:20,739 --> 00:14:25,299
Speaker 6: out there quite often i kind of bury them and

259
00:14:25,399 --> 00:14:26,059
Speaker 6: just deal with.

260
00:14:25,999 --> 00:14:28,309
Speaker 2: It is it still something that you feel hesitant to

261
00:14:28,349 --> 00:14:31,989
Speaker 2: share when you're having challenging feelings do you still hesitate

262
00:14:32,029 --> 00:14:34,009
Speaker 2: to share them with becca even now.

263
00:14:35,769 --> 00:14:39,339
Speaker 6: On occasion i just i guess the word is suck

264
00:14:39,359 --> 00:14:40,879
Speaker 6: it up and deal with it would be the best

265
00:14:40,919 --> 00:14:42,279
Speaker 6: way to describe what.

266
00:14:43,299 --> 00:14:45,229
Speaker 2: So it's a decision. In other words, it's a philosophy

267
00:14:45,249 --> 00:14:48,469
Speaker 2: that you have that one shouldn't share. It's better for

268
00:14:48,509 --> 00:14:51,509
Speaker 2: you to not let her know how you're feeling about things?

269
00:14:53,449 --> 00:14:56,929
Speaker 6: I mean, certain things, if it's a big enough issue, yes,

270
00:14:56,989 --> 00:15:01,039
Speaker 6: I would share. But if it's something that's going to

271
00:15:01,419 --> 00:15:06,099
Speaker 6: blow over or it's only a small thing, then I'll

272
00:15:06,119 --> 00:15:07,029
Speaker 6: just deal with it.

273
00:15:07,399 --> 00:15:10,359
Speaker 2: So the question is whether it indeed blows over or

274
00:15:10,399 --> 00:15:14,059
Speaker 2: whether over time... these feelings accumulate and then they come

275
00:15:14,099 --> 00:15:15,079
Speaker 2: out in other ways.

276
00:15:18,459 --> 00:15:22,299
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's definitely times where I blow up and it

277
00:15:22,339 --> 00:15:28,429
Speaker 6: comes out in anger, for sure. It's usually work-related. The

278
00:15:28,469 --> 00:15:32,689
Speaker 6: stresses from work definitely add up. I think I let

279
00:15:33,369 --> 00:15:36,229
Speaker 6: my feelings know pretty well about work.

280
00:15:36,979 --> 00:15:38,959
Speaker 1: You let them be known because you share them with

281
00:15:39,029 --> 00:15:41,869
Speaker 1: Becca or because you blow up and then it becomes

282
00:15:41,909 --> 00:15:43,389
Speaker 1: apparent that something's bothering you?

283
00:15:43,409 --> 00:15:44,869
Speaker 6: I'd say probably a little bit of both.

284
00:15:46,089 --> 00:15:48,409
Speaker 1: Jake, I'm curious about this idea that you have that

285
00:15:49,449 --> 00:15:51,769
Speaker 1: it's a burden to share your feelings with someone else

286
00:15:52,329 --> 00:15:55,089
Speaker 1: and that it's better if they just kind of blow over.

287
00:15:56,049 --> 00:15:58,189
Speaker 1: Was that something you learned earlier on in life?

288
00:15:59,269 --> 00:15:59,589
Speaker 2: Yeah.

289
00:16:00,029 --> 00:16:03,509
Speaker 6: My family isn't definitely not a family that I guess

290
00:16:03,729 --> 00:16:08,869
Speaker 6: shares their feelings all that often. talking about our feelings

291
00:16:08,919 --> 00:16:10,899
Speaker 6: was definitely not something that ever happened.

292
00:16:12,279 --> 00:16:17,579
Speaker 2: Do you see the connection between not expressing your feelings

293
00:16:17,699 --> 00:16:19,479
Speaker 2: unless it's a big deal? Do you see the connection

294
00:16:19,519 --> 00:16:23,419
Speaker 2: between keeping all of those things in and the temper

295
00:16:23,459 --> 00:16:25,619
Speaker 2: and then blowing up and having a short fuse?

296
00:16:27,179 --> 00:16:30,859
Speaker 6: I've always had a temper. I saw a therapist quite

297
00:16:30,879 --> 00:16:33,719
Speaker 6: a few years ago for my anger.

298
00:16:34,499 --> 00:16:38,199
Speaker 2: And in that work, was it suggested that part of

299
00:16:38,389 --> 00:16:43,149
Speaker 2: the internal pressure you might feel that promotes the temper

300
00:16:43,709 --> 00:16:45,869
Speaker 2: might be related to the fact that you don't have

301
00:16:45,929 --> 00:16:49,249
Speaker 2: this release valve because you keep things in unless they're

302
00:16:49,289 --> 00:16:49,849
Speaker 2: really big?

303
00:16:50,689 --> 00:16:53,529
Speaker 6: It's possible. During therapy, the big thing that ended up

304
00:16:53,569 --> 00:16:55,589
Speaker 6: changing was me moving out. At the time, I was

305
00:16:55,609 --> 00:16:57,429
Speaker 6: still living at my parents' house. Me and my dad

306
00:16:57,489 --> 00:17:00,669
Speaker 6: butt heads quite a bit. And moving out and getting

307
00:17:00,809 --> 00:17:06,959
Speaker 6: out of that toxic, I guess, environment... And being out

308
00:17:06,999 --> 00:17:09,659
Speaker 6: with my friends for the first time made a big difference,

309
00:17:10,019 --> 00:17:10,859
Speaker 6: a very big difference.

310
00:17:12,439 --> 00:17:14,329
Speaker 2: But it was that that made the difference, not that

311
00:17:14,409 --> 00:17:17,949
Speaker 2: you learned to regulate those feelings a little better.

312
00:17:18,249 --> 00:17:18,589
Speaker 6: Correct.

313
00:17:19,209 --> 00:17:22,689
Speaker 1: Becca, how much did you know about what Jake's talking

314
00:17:22,749 --> 00:17:26,249
Speaker 1: about right now and the philosophy of I don't want

315
00:17:26,269 --> 00:17:31,129
Speaker 1: to burden people with my feelings and the misconception that

316
00:17:31,509 --> 00:17:33,439
Speaker 1: they'll just go away if I don't talk about them?

317
00:17:34,639 --> 00:17:39,659
Speaker 4: So initially... For the first year, probably, I didn't know

318
00:17:39,739 --> 00:17:44,599
Speaker 4: about it. And he was actually very even-keeled. It would

319
00:17:44,639 --> 00:17:46,159
Speaker 4: come out a little bit when we would go to

320
00:17:46,179 --> 00:17:48,919
Speaker 4: visit his family. And he would say, oh, me and

321
00:17:48,959 --> 00:17:54,459
Speaker 4: my dad butt heads sometimes. Even nowadays, I'll leave water

322
00:17:54,499 --> 00:17:58,009
Speaker 4: bottles that I've drank around the house. And I didn't

323
00:17:58,089 --> 00:18:00,209
Speaker 4: know until the past couple months that it was something

324
00:18:00,249 --> 00:18:04,809
Speaker 4: that bothered him because he doesn't bring up those small things.

325
00:18:06,139 --> 00:18:09,259
Speaker 4: So it's like, I kind of wonder sometimes, like, what

326
00:18:09,319 --> 00:18:11,419
Speaker 4: other things do I do that bother him.

327
00:18:11,399 --> 00:18:13,139
Speaker 3: That he's just not saying anything about?

328
00:18:13,159 --> 00:18:15,919
Speaker 4: Because in my mind, I was like, oh, nothing about

329
00:18:15,959 --> 00:18:17,119
Speaker 4: me bothers this guy.

330
00:18:18,879 --> 00:18:21,719
Speaker 1: And he's laughing. So Jake, it sounds like she's on

331
00:18:21,739 --> 00:18:23,719
Speaker 1: the right track here, that maybe there are some other

332
00:18:23,739 --> 00:18:24,859
Speaker 1: things you haven't shared with her.

333
00:18:25,379 --> 00:18:27,339
Speaker 6: It would have to come up at the moment if

334
00:18:27,539 --> 00:18:30,239
Speaker 6: she did something, I guess. I can't think of anything

335
00:18:30,279 --> 00:18:31,359
Speaker 6: like right off the top of my head.

336
00:18:33,319 --> 00:18:34,079
Speaker 2: The water bottles.

337
00:18:34,259 --> 00:18:37,979
Speaker 6: It's just. Just a pet peeve of mine, just having

338
00:18:38,019 --> 00:18:43,059
Speaker 6: all these empty plastic water bottles open up the nightstand.

339
00:18:43,639 --> 00:18:46,379
Speaker 6: And one day to put something in it and on

340
00:18:46,419 --> 00:18:50,119
Speaker 6: her side, and there was like six empty plastic water bottles.

341
00:18:50,179 --> 00:18:52,779
Speaker 6: And why can't they just be put in the recycling?

342
00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:56,839
Speaker 1: And it was that moment that made you bring it

343
00:18:56,899 --> 00:18:58,609
Speaker 1: up with her? Like it had to get to the

344
00:18:58,669 --> 00:19:00,519
Speaker 1: six empty water bottles in the nightstand?

345
00:19:01,409 --> 00:19:03,249
Speaker 6: I don't really know how it was actually brought up.

346
00:19:03,629 --> 00:19:07,029
Speaker 6: It may have been... somewhat recent where I cleaned up,

347
00:19:07,209 --> 00:19:08,729
Speaker 6: I found a bunch of them, took them all out

348
00:19:08,769 --> 00:19:10,859
Speaker 6: and then to the recycling, came back in and there

349
00:19:10,879 --> 00:19:13,019
Speaker 6: was like three more sitting on the counter that she

350
00:19:13,039 --> 00:19:15,919
Speaker 6: had brought back. I don't know where she pulled them

351
00:19:16,019 --> 00:19:16,459
Speaker 6: out from.

352
00:19:17,279 --> 00:19:19,619
Speaker 2: The water bottles are a great example because they're a

353
00:19:19,619 --> 00:19:23,119
Speaker 2: small thing and we're laughing about it, but it happens

354
00:19:23,199 --> 00:19:26,149
Speaker 2: a lot. And so that's when we talk about accumulating

355
00:19:26,329 --> 00:19:29,589
Speaker 2: these kinds of feelings. You can see that if you

356
00:19:29,609 --> 00:19:32,149
Speaker 2: count how many water bottles are left around, how often

357
00:19:32,889 --> 00:19:35,489
Speaker 2: it adds up to much more than just a pet peeve.

358
00:19:35,509 --> 00:19:39,949
Speaker 2: And that's why when you feel this accumulation of frustrations,

359
00:19:40,009 --> 00:19:44,179
Speaker 2: it is important to express and address it. I do

360
00:19:44,199 --> 00:19:46,659
Speaker 2: want to go to Isabella because I want to hear, Jake,

361
00:19:47,579 --> 00:19:50,179
Speaker 2: what that experience was like. The fear is very, very

362
00:19:50,219 --> 00:19:52,959
Speaker 2: appropriate when you're having your first child, but were you

363
00:19:52,999 --> 00:19:55,879
Speaker 2: also excited? How did it feel when she was born,

364
00:19:55,979 --> 00:19:58,259
Speaker 2: when you were holding her? I'd like to hear about

365
00:19:58,279 --> 00:19:59,079
Speaker 2: your experience.

366
00:19:59,139 --> 00:20:02,829
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was exciting. As scary as it was, it

367
00:20:03,649 --> 00:20:06,909
Speaker 6: was nice. I had no idea what I was getting into,

368
00:20:07,329 --> 00:20:10,409
Speaker 6: but she was this perfect little thing. I have a

369
00:20:10,929 --> 00:20:13,909
Speaker 6: selfie that I took in the hospital holding her, and

370
00:20:13,969 --> 00:20:18,409
Speaker 6: her eyes are open staring at the camera. It was

371
00:20:18,429 --> 00:20:22,649
Speaker 6: a nice moment. I actually vividly remember my dad. He

372
00:20:22,669 --> 00:20:24,009
Speaker 6: was out in the waiting room for quite a few

373
00:20:24,049 --> 00:20:27,009
Speaker 6: hours once they found out that the baby was coming.

374
00:20:28,449 --> 00:20:30,449
Speaker 6: And I remember walking out to him, telling him that

375
00:20:30,489 --> 00:20:32,809
Speaker 6: she was here and just breaking down and crying.

376
00:20:34,169 --> 00:20:37,929
Speaker 1: And so these bursts of anger toward Isabella, they weren't

377
00:20:37,969 --> 00:20:41,329
Speaker 1: happening until your son was born or were they also

378
00:20:41,369 --> 00:20:44,309
Speaker 1: happening periodically before he was born?

379
00:20:44,369 --> 00:20:48,399
Speaker 6: Periodically. I know she's just a toddler, but when she

380
00:20:48,439 --> 00:20:53,939
Speaker 6: knows better, she's sometimes will look at you and smile,

381
00:20:54,099 --> 00:20:56,539
Speaker 6: even though you tell her no, and she will just,

382
00:20:57,019 --> 00:21:00,009
Speaker 6: look at you and smile and do it. anyway. And

383
00:21:00,269 --> 00:21:02,169
Speaker 6: she just drives me nuts.

384
00:21:03,089 --> 00:21:06,369
Speaker 2: Toddlers do that because that's how they learn. They test

385
00:21:06,409 --> 00:21:09,989
Speaker 2: the limits all the time to see what's allowed and

386
00:21:10,009 --> 00:21:12,229
Speaker 2: what isn't. And it requires a lot of repetition. So

387
00:21:12,249 --> 00:21:14,949
Speaker 2: those limits have to be reinforced over and over again.

388
00:21:14,999 --> 00:21:17,019
Speaker 2: And when she looks at you and smiles, she's almost

389
00:21:17,059 --> 00:21:19,849
Speaker 2: like signaling you I'm about to test the limit here,

390
00:21:19,949 --> 00:21:22,809
Speaker 2: so let's see what you do. Can you give me

391
00:21:22,829 --> 00:21:25,509
Speaker 2: an example, Jake, when you do have an outburst with Isabella?

392
00:21:26,429 --> 00:21:27,109
Speaker 2: What does that look like?

393
00:21:27,449 --> 00:21:31,359
Speaker 6: It's yelling. I get loud. I get very frustrated.

394
00:21:31,839 --> 00:21:32,339
Speaker 2: And say what?

395
00:21:33,279 --> 00:21:36,759
Speaker 6: Instead of just saying, I need you to clean these up,

396
00:21:36,959 --> 00:21:40,379
Speaker 6: I would just say that at a much louder yelling volume.

397
00:21:42,039 --> 00:21:45,499
Speaker 6: I don't like messes, and when there is a big mess,

398
00:21:45,959 --> 00:21:54,299
Speaker 6: that frustrates me, and I will say, and start cleaning

399
00:21:54,339 --> 00:21:57,589
Speaker 6: it up. Why did you do that? I don't have

400
00:21:57,629 --> 00:22:01,469
Speaker 6: a sensor. And I would say probably, what the F?

401
00:22:02,309 --> 00:22:08,679
Speaker 6: Why did you do that? In just a very angry manner.

402
00:22:09,919 --> 00:22:13,499
Speaker 2: And how does she react when you yell at her like.

403
00:22:15,419 --> 00:22:16,139
Speaker 5: That?

404
00:22:16,739 --> 00:22:21,119
Speaker 6: Sometimes... She just gets quiet and sits there. There's been

405
00:22:21,219 --> 00:22:25,419
Speaker 6: other times where she's laughing, which gets me even more frustrated.

406
00:22:26,039 --> 00:22:29,559
Speaker 6: And then there's other times where you could definitely tell

407
00:22:29,659 --> 00:22:33,159
Speaker 6: she feels guilty or upset about it, and then she'll

408
00:22:33,179 --> 00:22:37,329
Speaker 6: start crying. And I continue to be mad in this situation.

409
00:22:37,539 --> 00:22:40,049
Speaker 6: And then once the situation has been resolved, whether it's

410
00:22:40,689 --> 00:22:43,469
Speaker 6: cleaning it up or whatever the case is, is when

411
00:22:43,529 --> 00:22:50,009
Speaker 6: I get out of seeing red and take a step

412
00:22:50,029 --> 00:22:54,599
Speaker 6: back and realize she's just a toddler and I will

413
00:22:54,879 --> 00:22:57,639
Speaker 6: hold her and give her a hug and tell her

414
00:22:57,679 --> 00:23:02,659
Speaker 6: I'm sorry. And she'll go, it's okay.

415
00:23:03,799 --> 00:23:07,169
Speaker 1: You have this phrase, rupture and repair. And so when

416
00:23:07,189 --> 00:23:10,189
Speaker 1: there's a rupture, whether that's in a relationship between adults

417
00:23:10,229 --> 00:23:14,069
Speaker 1: or between parents and children, it's not just that a

418
00:23:14,129 --> 00:23:16,549
Speaker 1: rupture happened, but then how does it get repaired? And

419
00:23:16,589 --> 00:23:19,669
Speaker 1: it sounds like you attempt to repair it with Isabella,

420
00:23:20,769 --> 00:23:25,289
Speaker 1: but the problem is that it happens frequently enough that

421
00:23:25,639 --> 00:23:29,219
Speaker 1: she might not trust the repair and she might not

422
00:23:29,299 --> 00:23:32,519
Speaker 1: also be able to really tell you how she feels

423
00:23:33,539 --> 00:23:36,719
Speaker 1: in those moments. So she says, it's okay almost to

424
00:23:36,779 --> 00:23:41,819
Speaker 1: make you feel better, but I'm guessing that it has

425
00:23:41,859 --> 00:23:45,029
Speaker 1: a bigger effect on her. and that it's probably not

426
00:23:45,099 --> 00:23:49,539
Speaker 1: so okay with her. And so I'm wondering about when

427
00:23:49,559 --> 00:23:54,419
Speaker 1: this first started happening and Becca, you saw it and

428
00:23:54,519 --> 00:23:59,609
Speaker 1: you told Jake that you weren't comfortable with it. How

429
00:23:59,629 --> 00:24:02,509
Speaker 1: did those conversations go in the very beginning? And then

430
00:24:02,969 --> 00:24:04,809
Speaker 1: how have they evolved over time?

431
00:24:06,029 --> 00:24:08,919
Speaker 4: So in the beginning, I wouldn't talk to him about

432
00:24:08,939 --> 00:24:11,809
Speaker 4: it in front of Isabella. Sometimes it would be like

433
00:24:11,969 --> 00:24:14,069
Speaker 4: I would hear him yelling and I would come from

434
00:24:14,129 --> 00:24:17,089
Speaker 4: another room and then help to kind of facilitate the

435
00:24:17,149 --> 00:24:19,929
Speaker 4: repair part. And then at a later point, I would

436
00:24:19,949 --> 00:24:24,059
Speaker 4: talk to Jake and be like, hey, like, that wasn't okay.

437
00:24:24,179 --> 00:24:27,159
Speaker 4: That probably really hurt her. And he would say, you know,

438
00:24:27,299 --> 00:24:31,159
Speaker 4: I know. I'm sorry it happened. I'm going to work

439
00:24:31,199 --> 00:24:33,419
Speaker 4: really hard and I won't do it again.

440
00:24:35,199 --> 00:24:36,619
Speaker 1: What did that mean, work really hard?

441
00:24:36,699 --> 00:24:36,939
Speaker 5: You mean.

442
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,599
Speaker 1: Jake on your own or going to therapy?

443
00:24:40,199 --> 00:24:43,959
Speaker 6: On my own. Try to think before reacting.

444
00:24:46,159 --> 00:24:48,859
Speaker 1: Did you ever get any tools for that from your

445
00:24:48,939 --> 00:24:52,829
Speaker 1: earlier therapy or just maybe some research you did or

446
00:24:52,849 --> 00:24:54,449
Speaker 1: a book you read or anything like that?

447
00:24:55,149 --> 00:24:57,289
Speaker 3: No. You try counting.

448
00:24:57,609 --> 00:25:00,329
Speaker 6: Yeah, I do every so often. Just take a deep

449
00:25:00,349 --> 00:25:05,509
Speaker 6: breath and count to maybe 10 and try to deescalate. Mm-hmm.

450
00:25:05,819 --> 00:25:06,519
Speaker 1: Does that help at all?

451
00:25:06,599 --> 00:25:07,219
Speaker 6: Yes, sometimes.

452
00:25:08,639 --> 00:25:11,819
Speaker 1: And so when you hear Becca saying this, what is

453
00:25:11,879 --> 00:25:15,479
Speaker 1: it like for you when Becca brings this up to you,

454
00:25:15,959 --> 00:25:19,809
Speaker 1: that she's uncomfortable with the way that you're reacting to Isabella?

455
00:25:20,689 --> 00:25:21,209
Speaker 5: Frustrating.

456
00:25:22,509 --> 00:25:26,289
Speaker 6: I know I need to change for sure. It's disheartening,

457
00:25:26,889 --> 00:25:34,129
Speaker 6: you know, knowing that I'm not making, I guess, Becca

458
00:25:34,169 --> 00:25:39,889
Speaker 6: happy and I know the damage it's potentially doing to Isabella.

459
00:25:40,429 --> 00:25:42,049
Speaker 2: What is the damage you think it might be doing

460
00:25:42,089 --> 00:25:42,669
Speaker 2: to Isabella?

461
00:25:43,089 --> 00:25:47,129
Speaker 6: The mental damage she might have later in life. I

462
00:25:47,169 --> 00:25:51,189
Speaker 6: have noticed recently, I feel like very recently, that she's

463
00:25:51,249 --> 00:25:55,409
Speaker 6: starting to have a little bit of a temper and

464
00:25:55,509 --> 00:25:59,209
Speaker 6: reacting to scenarios the way I would react to scenarios.

465
00:25:59,789 --> 00:26:02,049
Speaker 6: And I have actually told her not to be like

466
00:26:02,089 --> 00:26:04,729
Speaker 6: me in these scenarios, to be more like mom.

467
00:26:05,899 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 1: Right.

468
00:26:06,319 --> 00:26:08,699
Speaker 2: But that doesn't really work when you're modeling for her

469
00:26:08,779 --> 00:26:12,379
Speaker 2: that it's okay to react in anger because here I

470
00:26:12,419 --> 00:26:15,239
Speaker 2: do it frequently. Then you can say, oh, you shouldn't

471
00:26:15,279 --> 00:26:17,379
Speaker 2: do it, but you're actually teaching her.

472
00:26:17,439 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 5: Right.

473
00:26:18,259 --> 00:26:20,219
Speaker 6: And this is something I've just noticed probably within the

474
00:26:20,259 --> 00:26:24,319
Speaker 6: past two weeks. That was a big eye opener for sure.

475
00:26:25,779 --> 00:26:27,059
Speaker 1: What happened in the last two weeks?

476
00:26:28,219 --> 00:26:31,059
Speaker 6: I personally have noticed how she's been reacting to certain

477
00:26:31,099 --> 00:26:31,579
Speaker 6: scenarios more.

478
00:26:32,639 --> 00:26:34,579
Speaker 2: And what does that change for you, that you're noticing

479
00:26:34,599 --> 00:26:35,819
Speaker 2: that she's imitating you?

480
00:26:37,059 --> 00:26:38,719
Speaker 6: Sad to say, but so far, nothing.

481
00:26:40,519 --> 00:26:40,899
Speaker 2: Why not?

482
00:26:42,519 --> 00:26:44,259
Speaker 6: I don't have an answer for that. I don't know.

483
00:26:45,549 --> 00:26:49,489
Speaker 1: You butt heads with your father. Did your parents yell

484
00:26:49,549 --> 00:26:52,229
Speaker 1: at you? No, no, no.

485
00:26:53,809 --> 00:26:55,629
Speaker 6: The reason my dad and I butt heads so much

486
00:26:55,709 --> 00:26:59,439
Speaker 6: is he loves getting under people's skin. Like, if he knows...

487
00:27:00,459 --> 00:27:02,949
Speaker 6: Something is bothering me. He will just dig and dig

488
00:27:03,009 --> 00:27:04,569
Speaker 6: and dig until I explode.

489
00:27:04,809 --> 00:27:06,569
Speaker 1: So you're the one who explodes, but he doesn't.

490
00:27:06,589 --> 00:27:09,029
Speaker 6: Yes. And then once I explode, then it's me and

491
00:27:09,049 --> 00:27:09,889
Speaker 6: him yelling at each other.

492
00:27:12,509 --> 00:27:16,569
Speaker 1: So the anger management that you felt you needed in

493
00:27:16,589 --> 00:27:20,649
Speaker 1: your early 20s when you went to a therapist, what

494
00:27:20,689 --> 00:27:22,989
Speaker 1: precipitated that? What was going on in your life where

495
00:27:23,009 --> 00:27:25,089
Speaker 1: you felt like, I really need to understand this better?

496
00:27:25,109 --> 00:27:30,389
Speaker 6: A previous relationship. If I didn't do something about it

497
00:27:30,509 --> 00:27:32,949
Speaker 6: and see a therapist, then she was leaving.

498
00:27:33,929 --> 00:27:37,409
Speaker 1: And did you agree that maybe it was problematic what

499
00:27:37,449 --> 00:27:39,529
Speaker 1: was going on? Or did you just go because you

500
00:27:39,569 --> 00:27:40,389
Speaker 1: didn't want to lose her?

501
00:27:41,449 --> 00:27:41,899
Speaker 6: I just went.

502
00:27:43,179 --> 00:27:45,999
Speaker 1: So you didn't think it was really problematic at the time?

503
00:27:46,879 --> 00:27:49,299
Speaker 1: Like you do now? Because now you're saying you do.

504
00:27:49,319 --> 00:27:53,499
Speaker 2: Are you saying that now, Jake? Do you think that

505
00:27:53,539 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 2: it's problematic now?

506
00:27:55,259 --> 00:27:55,559
Speaker 6: Yeah.

507
00:27:55,839 --> 00:27:56,039
Speaker 2: Yeah.

508
00:27:56,619 --> 00:27:57,059
Speaker 5: Definitely. Definitely.

509
00:27:58,959 --> 00:28:01,579
Speaker 1: What's different between now and then? Before you didn't think

510
00:28:01,619 --> 00:28:03,899
Speaker 1: it was problematic, but now you do. What's changed for you?

511
00:28:04,279 --> 00:28:09,589
Speaker 6: The kids. Seeing the way Isabella is reacting to things now,

512
00:28:09,609 --> 00:28:11,509
Speaker 6: it's definitely the kids.

513
00:28:12,369 --> 00:28:14,289
Speaker 1: Does this happen with your son too? I know he's

514
00:28:14,749 --> 00:28:16,789
Speaker 1: five months, but does it happen with him at all?

515
00:28:17,469 --> 00:28:17,709
Speaker 6: Yeah.

516
00:28:18,129 --> 00:28:18,589
Speaker 2: Crying.

517
00:28:19,889 --> 00:28:29,029
Speaker 6: Crying just gets under my skin incredibly often. And Isabella,

518
00:28:29,049 --> 00:28:36,959
Speaker 6: she very rarely cried. She was just always this happy baby.

519
00:28:37,239 --> 00:28:40,499
Speaker 6: And then Dean, he was just constantly crying. And it

520
00:28:40,559 --> 00:28:43,159
Speaker 6: was definitely frustrating.

521
00:28:44,899 --> 00:28:48,299
Speaker 2: It's interesting, Jake, because the two things that you've mentioned

522
00:28:48,319 --> 00:28:53,119
Speaker 2: that really frustrate you are crying and messes. And you

523
00:28:53,199 --> 00:28:58,579
Speaker 2: have a baby and a toddler. And a wife with

524
00:28:58,599 --> 00:29:04,599
Speaker 2: a water bottle problem. So it's really, it's a deadly combination.

525
00:29:04,619 --> 00:29:07,479
Speaker 2: I'm joking about it. But truly, it seems that if

526
00:29:07,559 --> 00:29:11,039
Speaker 2: those are the sensitivities, you know, there's just fertile ground

527
00:29:11,119 --> 00:29:14,999
Speaker 2: to be frustrated a lot. Now, you said that you

528
00:29:15,039 --> 00:29:17,439
Speaker 2: do take it seriously now. You do recognize now that

529
00:29:17,479 --> 00:29:20,459
Speaker 2: it's a problem and very recently. So I'll give you that.

530
00:29:21,239 --> 00:29:23,419
Speaker 2: But even in the recent couple of weeks where it's

531
00:29:23,559 --> 00:29:27,409
Speaker 2: occurred to you more, have you Thought of doing any research?

532
00:29:27,649 --> 00:29:29,629
Speaker 2: You know, Laurie asked if you read any books or

533
00:29:29,829 --> 00:29:34,019
Speaker 2: read any articles. Is that something you've thought about acquiring tools?

534
00:29:34,079 --> 00:29:36,019
Speaker 2: Because part of the problem you have is you have

535
00:29:36,059 --> 00:29:38,939
Speaker 2: no tools. You have the, you know, count, but that's it. Otherwise,

536
00:29:38,999 --> 00:29:41,779
Speaker 2: it's just strain and hope it doesn't come out, which

537
00:29:41,839 --> 00:29:44,819
Speaker 2: is not a tool. Have you thought about looking for tools?

538
00:29:44,859 --> 00:29:47,259
Speaker 2: Discuss that with Becca, perhaps, over the past couple of weeks?

539
00:29:50,049 --> 00:29:50,489
Speaker 6: I have not.

540
00:29:51,739 --> 00:29:54,539
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about what these conversations might look like between

541
00:29:54,559 --> 00:29:57,139
Speaker 1: the two of you, because it sounds like they've come

542
00:29:57,219 --> 00:29:59,179
Speaker 1: up quite a bit. You're nodding.

543
00:29:59,239 --> 00:30:00,039
Speaker 5: So yes. Okay.

544
00:30:01,329 --> 00:30:04,429
Speaker 1: Sometimes when we have a lot of feelings, we go numb.

545
00:30:05,729 --> 00:30:08,009
Speaker 1: And what I'm hearing with you, Jake, is that there's

546
00:30:08,169 --> 00:30:12,569
Speaker 1: almost like something isn't going in because I imagine that

547
00:30:12,609 --> 00:30:16,509
Speaker 1: maybe you go a little bit numb and people are

548
00:30:16,549 --> 00:30:19,089
Speaker 1: confused about numbness. Often they think if I go numb,

549
00:30:19,189 --> 00:30:23,599
Speaker 1: I'm not feeling anything. But numbness isn't the absence of feelings.

550
00:30:23,699 --> 00:30:26,499
Speaker 1: Numbness is a sense of being overwhelmed by too many feelings.

551
00:30:26,619 --> 00:30:30,099
Speaker 1: We can't process all the feelings and we go numb.

552
00:30:30,419 --> 00:30:33,829
Speaker 1: I'm wondering, Becca, from your perspective, what is it like

553
00:30:33,909 --> 00:30:36,169
Speaker 1: when you're trying to talk to Jake about this? And

554
00:30:36,429 --> 00:30:39,549
Speaker 1: in your letter, you said you've tried various ways of

555
00:30:39,749 --> 00:30:42,669
Speaker 1: setting boundaries around it, like we should go to therapy

556
00:30:42,749 --> 00:30:45,549
Speaker 1: or you should go to anger management or I might

557
00:30:45,649 --> 00:30:49,949
Speaker 1: leave you. So Jake, you're saying you go numb in

558
00:30:49,969 --> 00:30:53,659
Speaker 1: these conversations pretty much that you don't really have a

559
00:30:53,699 --> 00:30:56,489
Speaker 1: sense of what you're feeling when she's talking about it.

560
00:30:57,439 --> 00:30:59,999
Speaker 1: And Becca, I'm wondering for you, what is it like

561
00:31:00,039 --> 00:31:04,059
Speaker 1: when you're talking to Jake and it seems like maybe

562
00:31:04,679 --> 00:31:07,539
Speaker 1: it's not being received by him?

563
00:31:08,669 --> 00:31:15,979
Speaker 4: Invalidating and really frustrating because I feel like there should

564
00:31:16,039 --> 00:31:19,579
Speaker 4: be an emotional reaction and that there should be some openness.

565
00:31:20,159 --> 00:31:24,679
Speaker 4: And I suspect that he is really motivated deep down

566
00:31:24,699 --> 00:31:28,519
Speaker 4: and is hurt by the fact that he's lashing out

567
00:31:28,559 --> 00:31:34,189
Speaker 4: and potentially damaging Isabella and our relationship. But when I

568
00:31:34,229 --> 00:31:37,489
Speaker 4: don't get anything out of him except for I'll try harder.

569
00:31:38,829 --> 00:31:39,349
Speaker 3: It hurts.

570
00:31:39,389 --> 00:31:42,809
Speaker 4: It makes me feel like he doesn't care. And then

571
00:31:42,829 --> 00:31:46,029
Speaker 4: I actually like didn't know about the therapy they had

572
00:31:46,069 --> 00:31:49,009
Speaker 4: gone to before. And it's just a little hurtful to

573
00:31:49,049 --> 00:31:52,319
Speaker 4: hear that like that person saying that she might leave

574
00:31:53,279 --> 00:31:55,479
Speaker 4: would lead to him being like, okay, I'm going to

575
00:31:55,519 --> 00:31:59,739
Speaker 4: go get therapy. But me saying it's not healthy for

576
00:32:00,059 --> 00:32:03,039
Speaker 4: our daughter, you need to get therapy or we're going

577
00:32:03,059 --> 00:32:09,139
Speaker 4: to leave so that I can protect her resulted.

578
00:32:07,039 --> 00:32:09,759
Speaker 3: In like I'm not going to get therapy. I'm just

579
00:32:09,799 --> 00:32:10,719
Speaker 3: going to try harder.

580
00:32:12,199 --> 00:32:15,779
Speaker 1: You know, I'm looking at your face, Jake, and I

581
00:32:15,819 --> 00:32:20,209
Speaker 1: see so much coming across your face right now. As

582
00:32:20,249 --> 00:32:23,329
Speaker 1: I was looking at your face, there were these conflicting

583
00:32:23,469 --> 00:32:27,209
Speaker 1: emotions running through you and they probably lasted a millisecond

584
00:32:27,329 --> 00:32:31,429
Speaker 1: because you don't want to feel them. So you have

585
00:32:31,469 --> 00:32:33,359
Speaker 1: become very skilled at getting rid of them as soon

586
00:32:33,399 --> 00:32:36,139
Speaker 1: as they show up. And on the one hand, I

587
00:32:36,159 --> 00:32:38,689
Speaker 1: could see the pain. I could see the pain of

588
00:32:38,729 --> 00:32:41,529
Speaker 1: I'm hurting these people that I love. I could see

589
00:32:41,569 --> 00:32:44,749
Speaker 1: the pain of I don't want to lose my wife.

590
00:32:45,429 --> 00:32:49,719
Speaker 1: I don't want to damage my daughter. And I imagine

591
00:32:49,779 --> 00:32:53,919
Speaker 1: too that there's a part of you that's hard to acknowledge,

592
00:32:54,279 --> 00:32:56,899
Speaker 1: which might be this fantasy, which I don't think you

593
00:32:56,919 --> 00:32:59,299
Speaker 1: actually want to come true, but sometimes we have fantasies

594
00:32:59,359 --> 00:33:02,779
Speaker 1: about these things when we feel really trapped and stuck.

595
00:33:03,239 --> 00:33:06,929
Speaker 1: And maybe it would be a relief. Maybe... I would

596
00:33:06,959 --> 00:33:10,069
Speaker 1: get that freedom that I really wanted because now I

597
00:33:10,109 --> 00:33:13,289
Speaker 1: have two kids. And in your letter, Becca, you were

598
00:33:13,329 --> 00:33:17,829
Speaker 1: saying it really escalated during your second pregnancy and the postpartum.

599
00:33:18,749 --> 00:33:22,809
Speaker 1: Now there's really a lack of freedom with the two

600
00:33:22,849 --> 00:33:25,829
Speaker 1: young ones. And that there's a part of you, Jake,

601
00:33:25,849 --> 00:33:28,569
Speaker 1: that doesn't know what to do with this real need.

602
00:33:28,609 --> 00:33:31,889
Speaker 1: And it's a legitimate need to have some kind of freedom,

603
00:33:32,009 --> 00:33:34,609
Speaker 1: especially when this came at a time in your life

604
00:33:34,649 --> 00:33:37,129
Speaker 1: when you weren't expecting to have to give it up.

605
00:33:39,009 --> 00:33:41,269
Speaker 1: And you're nodding so I can see that that's true too.

606
00:33:41,989 --> 00:33:45,489
Speaker 1: And it's okay to be able to talk about all

607
00:33:45,549 --> 00:33:50,109
Speaker 1: the different ingredients here and not just what you think

608
00:33:50,169 --> 00:33:53,369
Speaker 1: Becca wants to hear, but what the truth of your

609
00:33:53,429 --> 00:33:56,599
Speaker 1: experience is, because I actually think that will help you

610
00:33:56,679 --> 00:34:00,719
Speaker 1: to manage your anger differently. And so I'm wondering if

611
00:34:00,739 --> 00:34:04,519
Speaker 1: we could try a little exercise here right now. where

612
00:34:04,539 --> 00:34:06,859
Speaker 1: you guys can talk about this a little bit differently.

613
00:34:06,879 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 1: Are you guys willing to try that?

614
00:34:10,119 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 3: Yeah.

615
00:34:10,439 --> 00:34:10,669
Speaker 2: Yeah.

616
00:34:11,189 --> 00:34:11,439
Speaker 5: Okay.

617
00:34:11,759 --> 00:34:15,209
Speaker 1: So if you can face each other and if you

618
00:34:15,329 --> 00:34:18,869
Speaker 1: can hold hands with each other, I wonder if Becca,

619
00:34:18,909 --> 00:34:23,529
Speaker 1: you can show Jake that you can tolerate the truth

620
00:34:23,549 --> 00:34:27,229
Speaker 1: of his experience, all of it. So Jake, I'm wondering

621
00:34:27,289 --> 00:34:29,909
Speaker 1: if you could tell Becca a little bit about the

622
00:34:30,009 --> 00:34:34,669
Speaker 1: conflict between that you're experiencing of, on the one hand,

623
00:34:34,969 --> 00:34:37,289
Speaker 1: wanting to be a really good father and a really

624
00:34:37,309 --> 00:34:41,349
Speaker 1: good partner, and on the other hand, feeling really ripped

625
00:34:41,549 --> 00:34:45,509
Speaker 1: off and feeling like sometimes it just feels really unfair

626
00:34:46,149 --> 00:34:49,949
Speaker 1: and sometimes you need a break and you don't quite

627
00:34:50,029 --> 00:34:51,929
Speaker 1: know what to do with all of these feelings and

628
00:34:51,969 --> 00:34:54,129
Speaker 1: you don't even know how to talk to Becca about them.

629
00:34:54,849 --> 00:34:57,249
Speaker 1: Can you share whatever's going on with you in your

630
00:34:57,309 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 1: own words with her? And Becca, I just want you

631
00:34:59,919 --> 00:35:02,659
Speaker 1: to breathe through this You don't need to respond. You

632
00:35:02,709 --> 00:35:06,059
Speaker 1: just need to be present so that you can open

633
00:35:06,119 --> 00:35:08,359
Speaker 1: up a space between you for the truth.

634
00:35:08,379 --> 00:35:23,079
Speaker 6: Like we've discussed, I used to have me time ever

635
00:35:23,119 --> 00:35:26,649
Speaker 6: since the new job. I don't ever get any time.

636
00:35:26,669 --> 00:35:32,179
Speaker 6: I love you guys. And we do have a lot

637
00:35:32,219 --> 00:35:41,579
Speaker 6: of fun together. There's definitely times that I definitely want

638
00:35:41,599 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 6: to run away. There's no doubt about it. But I

639
00:35:46,759 --> 00:35:50,979
Speaker 6: will always be here. I don't ever want to go away.

640
00:35:51,329 --> 00:35:54,849
Speaker 2: I love you guys. Could you say, joke a little

641
00:35:54,869 --> 00:35:57,609
Speaker 2: bit about how it feels in those moments where you

642
00:35:57,629 --> 00:35:58,229
Speaker 2: want to run away?

643
00:36:02,929 --> 00:36:03,659
Speaker 5: About feelings.

644
00:36:04,229 --> 00:36:05,349
Speaker 6: One thing I don't like doing.

645
00:36:06,229 --> 00:36:07,909
Speaker 1: I want to reframe that for you a little bit

646
00:36:08,249 --> 00:36:12,529
Speaker 1: because I think that you're not comfortable doing it, but

647
00:36:12,569 --> 00:36:15,489
Speaker 1: I don't know yet whether you like doing it because

648
00:36:15,529 --> 00:36:17,849
Speaker 1: I have a feeling that once you get comfortable talking

649
00:36:17,909 --> 00:36:21,529
Speaker 1: about your feelings, you will like it very much because

650
00:36:21,569 --> 00:36:24,489
Speaker 1: it will help you to have a place to go

651
00:36:24,549 --> 00:36:26,909
Speaker 1: with them instead of doing what you're doing with them now.

652
00:36:28,769 --> 00:36:30,809
Speaker 1: And Becca, watch out because he might start talking a

653
00:36:30,909 --> 00:36:33,289
Speaker 1: lot about his feelings in the future once he realizes

654
00:36:33,329 --> 00:36:34,159
Speaker 1: how much he likes it.

655
00:36:38,769 --> 00:36:40,189
Speaker 6: The times that I want to just run away, I

656
00:36:40,769 --> 00:36:46,559
Speaker 6: think of the days having fun. What could have been

657
00:36:46,879 --> 00:36:54,919
Speaker 6: without kids, the traveling, the adventures. I feel like my

658
00:36:54,979 --> 00:36:55,469
Speaker 6: time was.

659
00:36:58,389 --> 00:37:08,969
Speaker 6: Cut short and it just wasn't ready to give up

660
00:37:09,129 --> 00:37:12,649
Speaker 6: the nights out with the boys and the trips.

661
00:37:15,289 --> 00:37:19,849
Speaker 2: When Isabella is frustrating you and you have those thoughts about, oh,

662
00:37:19,889 --> 00:37:25,379
Speaker 2: I got robbed of this, you're juxtaposing feeling really free

663
00:37:25,459 --> 00:37:28,929
Speaker 2: and liberated and fun, but you're juxtaposing that with feeling

664
00:37:29,069 --> 00:37:33,469
Speaker 2: in that moment, what? Is it trapped? Is it suffocated?

665
00:37:34,289 --> 00:37:37,409
Speaker 2: Is it stressed? Is it sad? I'm just giving you

666
00:37:37,429 --> 00:37:39,289
Speaker 2: different words, but I want you to try and use

667
00:37:39,329 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 2: your own words to describe the feeling.

668
00:37:44,979 --> 00:37:47,299
Speaker 6: Sad was the one thing that you said that definitely,

669
00:37:49,139 --> 00:37:56,629
Speaker 6: definitely feel sad, sorry for myself. Self-pity and not being selfish.

670
00:37:57,889 --> 00:38:02,389
Speaker 1: That's a judgment. But going back to the feelings, you

671
00:38:02,409 --> 00:38:06,909
Speaker 1: talked about feeling sad. I'm associating the sadness with grief.

672
00:38:07,869 --> 00:38:12,099
Speaker 1: That you're grieving this idea of this part of your

673
00:38:12,159 --> 00:38:17,399
Speaker 1: life that you didn't get to really complete in the

674
00:38:17,439 --> 00:38:23,989
Speaker 1: way you wanted to. And that sometimes... because you aren't

675
00:38:24,049 --> 00:38:29,109
Speaker 1: able to really talk about the grief, when something is

676
00:38:29,169 --> 00:38:31,139
Speaker 1: right in front of you that reminds you of what

677
00:38:31,159 --> 00:38:35,299
Speaker 1: you lost, that that triggers that big reaction in you.

678
00:38:37,879 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 1: Is that what happens for you?

679
00:38:44,199 --> 00:38:44,599
Speaker 2: I don't know.

680
00:38:45,379 --> 00:38:46,599
Speaker 1: What happened when I just said that?

681
00:38:49,099 --> 00:38:50,259
Speaker 6: I was just thinking that I love you.

682
00:38:51,079 --> 00:38:51,639
Speaker 2: Well, not you.

683
00:38:53,249 --> 00:38:57,749
Speaker 1: But do you see how you got distracted from the feeling?

684
00:38:59,629 --> 00:38:59,829
Speaker 6: Yeah.

685
00:39:00,069 --> 00:39:00,789
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yes.

686
00:39:01,429 --> 00:39:04,009
Speaker 1: You said sometimes it frustrates you that when you're yelling

687
00:39:04,029 --> 00:39:07,629
Speaker 1: at Isabella, she laughs. And when I just made you

688
00:39:07,649 --> 00:39:10,669
Speaker 1: a little bit uncomfortable by asking you to think about

689
00:39:10,689 --> 00:39:14,619
Speaker 1: your feelings, you laughed. So I want you to think

690
00:39:14,679 --> 00:39:18,119
Speaker 1: about that next time you're yelling at Isabella and she laughs,

691
00:39:18,779 --> 00:39:22,399
Speaker 1: it means she's uncomfortable. She's feeling something but wants to

692
00:39:22,439 --> 00:39:24,689
Speaker 1: get rid of it. just like you're doing right now.

693
00:39:26,629 --> 00:39:28,749
Speaker 1: So let's go back for a second to that feeling.

694
00:39:28,769 --> 00:39:35,209
Speaker 1: I imagine that there's some grieving that you haven't done

695
00:39:37,499 --> 00:39:41,059
Speaker 1: around the loss of this version of this time in

696
00:39:41,099 --> 00:39:45,339
Speaker 1: your life that would look a little different. And when

697
00:39:45,499 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 1: Isabella does something or the baby is crying, that's a

698
00:39:49,859 --> 00:39:55,369
Speaker 1: stark reminder of what you have lost. And so I

699
00:39:55,429 --> 00:39:58,879
Speaker 1: imagine that it brings up those feelings of grief and

700
00:39:58,959 --> 00:40:03,459
Speaker 1: loss and you get really angry because these are unprocessed

701
00:40:03,499 --> 00:40:09,259
Speaker 1: feelings of grief and loss. So when you said sad,

702
00:40:09,279 --> 00:40:12,339
Speaker 1: I can see that because that's grief. That's the sadness.

703
00:40:14,019 --> 00:40:16,549
Speaker 1: So you're nodding to that. Does that resonate with you?

704
00:40:17,449 --> 00:40:17,649
Speaker 6: Yes.

705
00:40:18,389 --> 00:40:23,209
Speaker 2: Yes. Jake, I think part of what blocks you from

706
00:40:24,209 --> 00:40:28,429
Speaker 2: talking about to Becca about these feelings, about feeling the loss,

707
00:40:28,489 --> 00:40:31,999
Speaker 2: about feeling sad, is what you said afterwards. Will that

708
00:40:32,039 --> 00:40:37,519
Speaker 2: feel selfish? And I'm wondering if you realize that Becca

709
00:40:37,559 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 2: must be having some of the same feelings because her

710
00:40:43,159 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 2: days of independence were also cut short in that way.

711
00:40:47,359 --> 00:40:50,059
Speaker 2: Has it occurred to you that these might be feelings

712
00:40:50,099 --> 00:40:54,829
Speaker 2: she's having as well to some degree? No, it did not.

713
00:40:55,119 --> 00:40:57,179
Speaker 1: And they might not be exactly the same feelings, but

714
00:40:57,219 --> 00:41:02,019
Speaker 1: she probably has her own experience of parenthood where it's

715
00:41:02,139 --> 00:41:06,889
Speaker 1: very challenging, especially if she's still in medical school or

716
00:41:06,909 --> 00:41:11,829
Speaker 1: doing residency or starting out. Becca, can you talk to

717
00:41:11,909 --> 00:41:16,329
Speaker 1: Jake a little bit about the various experiences you've had

718
00:41:16,819 --> 00:41:17,539
Speaker 1: as a new parent?

719
00:41:21,919 --> 00:41:22,159
Speaker 4: Yeah.

720
00:41:22,939 --> 00:41:25,179
Speaker 5: So when Isabella was born.

721
00:41:26,499 --> 00:41:28,439
Speaker 4: I had this idea of kind of the mom I

722
00:41:28,459 --> 00:41:31,899
Speaker 4: was going to be, a super mom, like that I

723
00:41:31,919 --> 00:41:35,459
Speaker 4: could handle residency and I could be this great mom

724
00:41:35,599 --> 00:41:41,609
Speaker 4: and do both things 100%. And it's been tough realizing

725
00:41:41,669 --> 00:41:46,049
Speaker 4: that like there is a version of myself in residency

726
00:41:46,069 --> 00:41:50,169
Speaker 4: and like at work that I could have been if

727
00:41:50,269 --> 00:41:54,179
Speaker 4: I didn't have kids and like a level of devotion

728
00:41:54,219 --> 00:41:57,789
Speaker 4: I could have thrown myself in And at the same time,

729
00:41:57,849 --> 00:42:00,589
Speaker 4: like if I didn't have residency or commitment to like

730
00:42:00,769 --> 00:42:03,169
Speaker 4: this line of work, there's a version of myself that

731
00:42:03,389 --> 00:42:05,519
Speaker 4: like a mom version of myself I could be for

732
00:42:05,579 --> 00:42:06,639
Speaker 4: Isabella and for Dean.

733
00:42:06,659 --> 00:42:08,139
Speaker 5: I'm kind of.

734
00:42:08,119 --> 00:42:12,019
Speaker 4: Feeling like I'm always falling short in both places. That's

735
00:42:12,059 --> 00:42:13,879
Speaker 4: been been really tough.

736
00:42:15,639 --> 00:42:17,879
Speaker 1: Jake, what is it like for you to hear that

737
00:42:17,979 --> 00:42:22,469
Speaker 1: she also struggles with imagining these different versions of her life?

738
00:42:25,089 --> 00:42:28,149
Speaker 1: If she didn't have kids, how she would perform at work.

739
00:42:28,619 --> 00:42:30,639
Speaker 1: If she didn't have work, how she would be as

740
00:42:30,679 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 1: a parent. Did you know that you had that in common,

741
00:42:33,819 --> 00:42:36,539
Speaker 1: these fantasy lives that you think about sometimes?

742
00:42:38,559 --> 00:42:43,389
Speaker 2: No, didn't know. I want you to be happy.

743
00:42:43,749 --> 00:42:49,249
Speaker 6: So it's definitely very sad to hear that you also

744
00:42:49,289 --> 00:42:54,059
Speaker 6: have this conflict or battle of what could be.

745
00:42:55,349 --> 00:42:57,569
Speaker 1: Is it also a little bit of a relief to

746
00:42:57,609 --> 00:43:03,249
Speaker 1: know that both of you, like many new parents, have struggled?

747
00:43:04,329 --> 00:43:05,139
Speaker 5: Yeah, yes.

748
00:43:06,799 --> 00:43:10,539
Speaker 2: Most new parents have moments where they wish there was

749
00:43:10,579 --> 00:43:14,419
Speaker 2: an eject button that they could smack because it's just

750
00:43:14,479 --> 00:43:18,919
Speaker 2: so much. And it's not unusual and doesn't mean they

751
00:43:18,939 --> 00:43:20,989
Speaker 2: don't love their kids. It just means it can be

752
00:43:21,089 --> 00:43:25,739
Speaker 2: really overwhelming. And the thing, Jake, is that Most of

753
00:43:25,759 --> 00:43:30,639
Speaker 2: the feelings that you're describing are normative. There's nothing unusual

754
00:43:31,339 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 2: about them, especially when a pregnancy is unplanned. But I

755
00:43:35,799 --> 00:43:38,249
Speaker 2: think there's a way in which you feel that you

756
00:43:38,269 --> 00:43:41,149
Speaker 2: shouldn't have these feelings or it's selfish of you to

757
00:43:41,209 --> 00:43:45,989
Speaker 2: have these most natural of thoughts. And so I'm glad

758
00:43:46,029 --> 00:43:48,569
Speaker 2: you say that you feel this relief to hear that

759
00:43:48,869 --> 00:43:53,049
Speaker 2: Becca has her version of those feelings, as do most parents.

760
00:43:54,049 --> 00:43:56,989
Speaker 2: And therein is the benefit. of sharing your feelings, you

761
00:43:57,009 --> 00:44:02,029
Speaker 2: get to find out that your partner has similar ones

762
00:44:02,409 --> 00:44:04,909
Speaker 2: and that there's something that actually unites you in these

763
00:44:04,969 --> 00:44:08,449
Speaker 2: feelings rather than divides. You're nodding, I'm saying that, but

764
00:44:09,149 --> 00:44:11,789
Speaker 2: is that how it feels to you? Yes.

765
00:44:12,179 --> 00:44:12,349
Speaker 5: Yeah.

766
00:44:14,139 --> 00:44:16,919
Speaker 1: Becca, can you tell Jake what it was like to

767
00:44:16,979 --> 00:44:17,919
Speaker 1: hear all of that from him?

768
00:44:19,119 --> 00:44:20,039
Speaker 5: Really refreshing.

769
00:44:21,519 --> 00:44:23,079
Speaker 4: So I feel like it's a treat whenever I get

770
00:44:23,119 --> 00:44:26,199
Speaker 4: to hear kind of like that deep of stuff from you.

771
00:44:27,139 --> 00:44:29,479
Speaker 1: Did you feel that he was selfish when you heard that?

772
00:44:29,839 --> 00:44:32,939
Speaker 1: Or what was your impression of his fantasy of sometimes

773
00:44:33,259 --> 00:44:35,139
Speaker 1: wanting to hit the eject button, as Guy said?

774
00:44:37,899 --> 00:44:40,109
Speaker 5: I didn't think it was selfish. I could, like, identify

775
00:44:40,149 --> 00:44:40,549
Speaker 5: with it.

776
00:44:40,569 --> 00:44:44,269
Speaker 4: Kind of, like, mirrored, like, feelings that I've had before.

777
00:44:44,289 --> 00:44:48,509
Speaker 4: And I feel like, you know, Jake would be somebody

778
00:44:48,589 --> 00:44:50,389
Speaker 4: safe that I could talk to that about and not

779
00:44:50,409 --> 00:44:54,969
Speaker 4: have to worry about being judged and I'm glad to

780
00:44:55,009 --> 00:44:57,429
Speaker 4: know that he can say that to me, that we're

781
00:44:57,449 --> 00:44:59,309
Speaker 4: both feeling that sometimes.

782
00:45:00,429 --> 00:45:03,129
Speaker 1: Jake, have you ever shared this kind of feeling with anybody?

783
00:45:03,709 --> 00:45:06,579
Speaker 1: Not just about having kids, but something that felt really

784
00:45:06,639 --> 00:45:09,079
Speaker 1: shameful to you or something that made you feel not

785
00:45:09,639 --> 00:45:10,499
Speaker 1: good about yourself?

786
00:45:11,139 --> 00:45:11,939
Speaker 6: No, I don't think so.

787
00:45:12,479 --> 00:45:13,819
Speaker 1: So this is a new experience.

788
00:45:14,779 --> 00:45:15,359
Speaker 6: Yeah, yes.

789
00:45:16,539 --> 00:45:18,959
Speaker 2: I think part of what might hold you back, Jake,

790
00:45:19,019 --> 00:45:23,329
Speaker 2: is quite, quite basic in what it is. And I

791
00:45:23,369 --> 00:45:26,139
Speaker 2: think that is that you have trouble, like many people,

792
00:45:27,619 --> 00:45:32,849
Speaker 2: identifying what you feel, but specifically putting a name to it.

793
00:45:33,679 --> 00:45:36,979
Speaker 2: It was difficult for you to come up with those

794
00:45:37,039 --> 00:45:41,019
Speaker 2: names because it's a mush of feelings. You know you're

795
00:45:41,059 --> 00:45:43,499
Speaker 2: feeling something, but you're feeling it in your chest and

796
00:45:43,519 --> 00:45:46,329
Speaker 2: your throat and your shoulders and your stomach. And it's

797
00:45:46,429 --> 00:45:48,589
Speaker 2: difficult to tell which is which and what is what.

798
00:45:49,929 --> 00:45:53,069
Speaker 2: But the more practice you have naming those feelings, the

799
00:45:53,449 --> 00:45:56,629
Speaker 2: more fluent you get at being able to do that.

800
00:45:56,729 --> 00:45:59,629
Speaker 2: And I think that it's one of the things that's

801
00:45:59,649 --> 00:46:02,189
Speaker 2: been holding you back, that you just worry that you

802
00:46:02,429 --> 00:46:05,249
Speaker 2: don't have the words. You might not be able to

803
00:46:05,429 --> 00:46:08,029
Speaker 2: identify exactly what you're feeling, but even if you can,

804
00:46:08,149 --> 00:46:09,429
Speaker 2: it's hard to put words.

805
00:46:10,569 --> 00:46:11,989
Speaker 6: Yeah, you nailed it.

806
00:46:13,089 --> 00:46:13,909
Speaker 5: Not having the words.

807
00:46:14,889 --> 00:46:16,469
Speaker 6: What you just said was perfect.

808
00:46:17,669 --> 00:46:20,789
Speaker 2: Becca, how confident do you feel with your ability to

809
00:46:20,809 --> 00:46:25,039
Speaker 2: name your feelings, identify them, speak about them, label them?

810
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:28,539
Speaker 5: I feel very comfortable.

811
00:46:30,159 --> 00:46:31,959
Speaker 4: I know some people for kids, they want them to

812
00:46:31,999 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 4: be very smart, so they'll work with them on math

813
00:46:35,839 --> 00:46:40,079
Speaker 4: and letters and stuff. But for me, it's identifying emotions.

814
00:46:41,559 --> 00:46:44,679
Speaker 4: So with Isabella, she can tell you why she's feeling

815
00:46:44,749 --> 00:46:45,579
Speaker 4: how she's feeling.

816
00:46:46,729 --> 00:46:51,579
Speaker 1: So what does Isabella say after these incidents happen where

817
00:46:52,179 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 1: Jake is angry with her? Does she talk to you, Becca,

818
00:46:55,819 --> 00:46:59,859
Speaker 1: or does she talk to you, Jake, about what she feels?

819
00:47:00,339 --> 00:47:01,959
Speaker 1: Does she have the vocabulary to do that?

820
00:47:04,059 --> 00:47:04,619
Speaker 6: I would say yes.

821
00:47:04,639 --> 00:47:05,519
Speaker 1: What does she actually say?

822
00:47:07,139 --> 00:47:13,209
Speaker 6: She knows when I'm upset with work and she will

823
00:47:13,249 --> 00:47:17,249
Speaker 6: come over and actually tell me how I'm feeling I

824
00:47:18,159 --> 00:47:21,219
Speaker 6: see you're upset, daddy. Maybe a hug will make you

825
00:47:21,279 --> 00:47:24,039
Speaker 6: feel better and she'll give me a hug.

826
00:47:24,179 --> 00:47:27,559
Speaker 1: And on the one hand, that's very cute because she's

827
00:47:27,599 --> 00:47:31,789
Speaker 1: little and it also shows empathy. But it's also possible

828
00:47:31,809 --> 00:47:33,669
Speaker 1: that she does that because she knows that when daddy

829
00:47:33,969 --> 00:47:37,109
Speaker 1: is upset, daddy can get really mad.

830
00:47:38,629 --> 00:47:38,869
Speaker 6: Yeah.

831
00:47:39,489 --> 00:47:42,089
Speaker 1: And so I want you to see both sides of that,

832
00:47:42,449 --> 00:47:45,019
Speaker 1: that she may feel like she needs to regulate you

833
00:47:46,189 --> 00:47:47,669
Speaker 1: so that you don't lash out at her.

834
00:47:48,529 --> 00:47:48,969
Speaker 6: Makes sense.

835
00:47:49,349 --> 00:47:53,049
Speaker 1: And so I'm wondering, maybe with Becca, since Becca, you

836
00:47:53,089 --> 00:47:57,029
Speaker 1: say you're a little bit more fluent with feelings. Does

837
00:47:57,089 --> 00:48:00,489
Speaker 1: she ever say to you, I was scared of daddy,

838
00:48:00,509 --> 00:48:04,949
Speaker 1: or I'm really mad at daddy, or I was really sad?

839
00:48:04,969 --> 00:48:09,579
Speaker 1: Does she ever talk about her experience of being yelled

840
00:48:09,639 --> 00:48:10,119
Speaker 1: at with you?

841
00:48:10,139 --> 00:48:12,379
Speaker 5: Yeah, all three of those.

842
00:48:13,849 --> 00:48:16,299
Speaker 4: She usually doesn't spend a lot of time talking about it,

843
00:48:16,909 --> 00:48:19,969
Speaker 4: but she'll like, I was sad when daddy yelled at

844
00:48:20,029 --> 00:48:21,769
Speaker 4: me and I don't know why he yelled at me.

845
00:48:22,189 --> 00:48:25,889
Speaker 4: And we'll kind of talk about, Oh, this is where

846
00:48:25,929 --> 00:48:27,809
Speaker 4: daddy was coming from. And this is where you were

847
00:48:27,869 --> 00:48:31,869
Speaker 4: coming from. And you know, daddy's taking some space right now.

848
00:48:31,969 --> 00:48:35,009
Speaker 4: Cause that's how he calms down to feel better or

849
00:48:35,349 --> 00:48:38,329
Speaker 4: what would feel good for you. And then I'll end

850
00:48:38,409 --> 00:48:44,149
Speaker 4: up telling Jake how Isabella is feeling. And then he'll

851
00:48:44,169 --> 00:48:46,649
Speaker 4: go and do the like repair work you mentioned earlier.

852
00:48:46,669 --> 00:48:51,269
Speaker 1: Do you ever say to Isabella that even though daddy

853
00:48:51,309 --> 00:48:54,579
Speaker 1: was upset that it's not okay that he yelled at her?

854
00:48:57,379 --> 00:48:59,959
Speaker 5: I do, but I don't know how much of that

855
00:48:59,999 --> 00:49:00,659
Speaker 5: gets through.

856
00:49:01,819 --> 00:49:05,079
Speaker 4: And I'll tell her like, she's not responsible for daddy

857
00:49:05,099 --> 00:49:08,609
Speaker 4: getting mad and that she's still a good kid and

858
00:49:08,689 --> 00:49:09,789
Speaker 4: everybody gets mad sometimes.

859
00:49:09,809 --> 00:49:12,289
Speaker 1: And that there's another way to deal with our anger

860
00:49:12,329 --> 00:49:14,899
Speaker 1: when we get mad. That we can use a different

861
00:49:14,939 --> 00:49:17,339
Speaker 1: voice to express what we're upset about.

862
00:49:17,359 --> 00:49:21,119
Speaker 4: I'll have to keep that in my toolbox to say

863
00:49:21,159 --> 00:49:21,739
Speaker 4: next time.

864
00:49:23,059 --> 00:49:27,059
Speaker 1: Jake, now that you're seeing how much of an impact

865
00:49:27,789 --> 00:49:31,089
Speaker 1: this has on Isabella, not only now, but might have

866
00:49:31,229 --> 00:49:38,549
Speaker 1: on her as she grows up. I'm wondering when Becca says, hey,

867
00:49:38,729 --> 00:49:40,889
Speaker 1: we could go to therapy or you could do some

868
00:49:40,949 --> 00:49:45,029
Speaker 1: anger management or whatever. Even I don't know if we

869
00:49:45,049 --> 00:49:47,049
Speaker 1: can stay, if this is going to go on. It

870
00:49:47,589 --> 00:49:52,149
Speaker 1: feels like all three things have happened. What do you

871
00:49:52,189 --> 00:49:56,609
Speaker 1: think is keeping you from doing something that might be helpful,

872
00:49:56,649 --> 00:50:00,099
Speaker 1: not just for the other people, but mostly for you?

873
00:50:03,139 --> 00:50:03,559
Speaker 5: Lazy.

874
00:50:03,579 --> 00:50:05,539
Speaker 6: Don't want to put in the work.

875
00:50:06,499 --> 00:50:10,079
Speaker 1: I don't think people are really lazy. I think that

876
00:50:10,119 --> 00:50:13,199
Speaker 1: people avoid things and then they look like they're lazy.

877
00:50:13,659 --> 00:50:16,159
Speaker 1: So I'm going to say it a different way. Why

878
00:50:16,219 --> 00:50:20,079
Speaker 1: are you avoiding dealing with this? Given how high the

879
00:50:20,119 --> 00:50:20,709
Speaker 1: stakes are.

880
00:50:21,929 --> 00:50:23,819
Speaker 2: And how long you've been dealing with it.

881
00:50:26,429 --> 00:50:28,939
Speaker 6: I keep telling myself that I can fix it myself.

882
00:50:29,559 --> 00:50:33,719
Speaker 1: But you know that that's not been the case so

883
00:50:33,859 --> 00:50:35,959
Speaker 1: that's again a way that we avoid is we lie

884
00:50:35,999 --> 00:50:39,019
Speaker 1: to ourselves it's really easy to tell ourselves what we

885
00:50:39,059 --> 00:50:42,459
Speaker 1: want to hear so we can avoid doing the thing

886
00:50:42,499 --> 00:50:46,339
Speaker 1: that we need to do i have a theory about

887
00:50:46,439 --> 00:50:50,409
Speaker 1: why you might be avoiding this And that's because of

888
00:50:50,449 --> 00:50:53,629
Speaker 1: that conflict we were talking about earlier between the part

889
00:50:53,649 --> 00:50:55,269
Speaker 1: of you that feels ripped off and the part of

890
00:50:55,289 --> 00:50:58,629
Speaker 1: you that wants to be a part of this family.

891
00:51:01,579 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 1: And I think that there's a part of you that

892
00:51:05,219 --> 00:51:09,739
Speaker 1: isn't even in your awareness that feels like, if I

893
00:51:09,799 --> 00:51:16,029
Speaker 1: go deal with this, then I'm giving in to this

894
00:51:16,109 --> 00:51:17,869
Speaker 1: life and I don't get to hold on to any

895
00:51:17,909 --> 00:51:22,489
Speaker 1: part of that other life. at least when I'm acting out,

896
00:51:23,189 --> 00:51:30,069
Speaker 1: that part of my life is alive. And I want

897
00:51:30,089 --> 00:51:33,739
Speaker 1: to suggest that there might be other ways to keep

898
00:51:33,779 --> 00:51:37,759
Speaker 1: that other part of your life alive and also do

899
00:51:38,999 --> 00:51:43,739
Speaker 1: things in your life that might give you more balance.

900
00:51:45,019 --> 00:51:46,409
Speaker 6: I know within the next few months.

901
00:51:49,009 --> 00:51:50,969
Speaker 6: Things are going to get significantly better. We get to

902
00:51:51,029 --> 00:51:53,449
Speaker 6: move back home with all of our friends and family.

903
00:51:54,549 --> 00:51:57,129
Speaker 6: Where we are now, we have no support systems. We'll

904
00:51:57,169 --> 00:52:00,789
Speaker 6: have grandparents only 15 minutes away instead of two hours away.

905
00:52:01,609 --> 00:52:04,789
Speaker 6: Friends only five, 10 minutes away instead of two hours away.

906
00:52:06,069 --> 00:52:12,959
Speaker 6: And I already know the job I'm in now, I

907
00:52:13,039 --> 00:52:16,539
Speaker 6: am resigning from this position because it's just not healthy.

908
00:52:17,359 --> 00:52:20,299
Speaker 6: Having our friends and family and going back to the

909
00:52:20,359 --> 00:52:24,779
Speaker 6: job that I enjoy doing, a lot of that would change.

910
00:52:25,039 --> 00:52:29,289
Speaker 2: It definitely will, and being without a support system is

911
00:52:29,569 --> 00:52:32,849
Speaker 2: especially difficult when you have two young kids and a newborn.

912
00:52:33,549 --> 00:52:36,589
Speaker 2: But Jake, I wanted to offer you another theory about

913
00:52:38,029 --> 00:52:44,089
Speaker 2: why you might not have sought help. Number one, you

914
00:52:44,129 --> 00:52:47,169
Speaker 2: did in the past, and it doesn't sound like you

915
00:52:47,209 --> 00:52:50,859
Speaker 2: walked out with a lot of tools from that experience.

916
00:52:51,579 --> 00:52:53,939
Speaker 2: And a lot of times when people, and especially men,

917
00:52:54,419 --> 00:52:58,869
Speaker 2: have issues with anger management, they think that they just

918
00:52:58,909 --> 00:53:02,149
Speaker 2: need to learn to hold it in better, that they

919
00:53:02,169 --> 00:53:06,109
Speaker 2: just need to get that better cork that will stuff

920
00:53:06,169 --> 00:53:09,219
Speaker 2: it in, and then it won't come out. And right now,

921
00:53:09,279 --> 00:53:12,119
Speaker 2: you don't know how to get a better cork. It's

922
00:53:12,259 --> 00:53:18,889
Speaker 2: very difficult to understand a nonlinear relationship between talking about

923
00:53:18,949 --> 00:53:23,069
Speaker 2: your feelings of frustration, loss of the bachelorhood. How is

924
00:53:23,109 --> 00:53:27,369
Speaker 2: that related to, you know, me having the temper or

925
00:53:28,129 --> 00:53:30,769
Speaker 2: keeping it in about the water bottles or the messes,

926
00:53:31,079 --> 00:53:34,079
Speaker 2: you know? And I think that part of what makes

927
00:53:34,119 --> 00:53:38,179
Speaker 2: you hesitate is you just don't understand or know what

928
00:53:38,259 --> 00:53:41,699
Speaker 2: possible tools can people give me that will actually help

929
00:53:41,739 --> 00:53:44,689
Speaker 2: me other than me just needing the willpower to not explode.

930
00:53:46,039 --> 00:53:48,299
Speaker 2: And I'm wondering if that's something that's going on with you,

931
00:53:48,379 --> 00:53:51,639
Speaker 2: that you just don't quite know what that help could

932
00:53:51,699 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 2: even be or that doesn't quite make sense to you.

933
00:53:54,039 --> 00:53:56,479
Speaker 2: And so I feel it'll just come down to me

934
00:53:56,539 --> 00:53:59,159
Speaker 2: needing to not, and I'm trying to not anyway, so

935
00:53:59,659 --> 00:54:00,319
Speaker 2: what else can I do?

936
00:54:01,319 --> 00:54:07,479
Speaker 6: Yeah, I can definitely relate with that, especially the court scenario.

937
00:54:08,619 --> 00:54:10,639
Speaker 6: It's how I feel like I just need to try

938
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:13,019
Speaker 6: harder to suppress the anger.

939
00:54:13,559 --> 00:54:19,459
Speaker 1: Becca, you've talked about thinking you don't know how long

940
00:54:19,499 --> 00:54:24,539
Speaker 1: you can keep going in this situation. Where are you

941
00:54:24,579 --> 00:54:25,319
Speaker 1: with that right now?

942
00:54:29,249 --> 00:54:33,009
Speaker 4: I feel conflicted because I want to believe that like

943
00:54:33,869 --> 00:54:39,109
Speaker 4: once we move back and there's more balance that everything

944
00:54:39,129 --> 00:54:44,829
Speaker 4: will get better. But I feel this like ambivalence because

945
00:54:45,089 --> 00:54:47,999
Speaker 4: for me, I want to stay with Jake And I

946
00:54:48,039 --> 00:54:51,699
Speaker 4: want us to be a family and be together forever.

947
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:54,539
Speaker 3: And I'm happy.

948
00:54:56,039 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 4: But then as a mother, seeing the impact that it

949
00:54:59,799 --> 00:55:04,559
Speaker 4: has on Isabella, it makes me feel like to do

950
00:55:04,579 --> 00:55:08,579
Speaker 4: what's best for her in the times when the anger

951
00:55:08,599 --> 00:55:13,039
Speaker 4: does get pretty bad, that it'd be better if Jake

952
00:55:13,079 --> 00:55:18,619
Speaker 4: was just a part-time parent. And I feel like those

953
00:55:18,659 --> 00:55:20,209
Speaker 4: two parts of me fight a lot.

954
00:55:21,749 --> 00:55:26,229
Speaker 1: Can I ask you, Jake, if we flashed forward several decades,

955
00:55:28,509 --> 00:55:35,049
Speaker 1: Isabella and Dean are really struggling in their lives. They're

956
00:55:35,089 --> 00:55:38,709
Speaker 1: struggling with how they feel about themselves. They're struggling in

957
00:55:38,789 --> 00:55:44,669
Speaker 1: their friendships and their romantic relationships. They may be numbing

958
00:55:44,709 --> 00:55:51,089
Speaker 1: themselves with certain things like drugs or alcohol. Maybe they

959
00:55:52,809 --> 00:55:58,779
Speaker 1: are able to tell you, you hurt us constantly when

960
00:55:58,799 --> 00:56:01,759
Speaker 1: we were growing up. How would you feel about your

961
00:56:01,779 --> 00:56:05,059
Speaker 1: life choices several decades on that were the case?

962
00:56:07,089 --> 00:56:07,449
Speaker 6: Horrible.

963
00:56:08,609 --> 00:56:10,729
Speaker 1: Do you understand that that's the potential path you're on?

964
00:56:10,749 --> 00:56:12,949
Speaker 5: I do now.

965
00:56:18,579 --> 00:56:21,989
Speaker 2: So Becca and Jake, we have some advice for you

966
00:56:22,029 --> 00:56:25,909
Speaker 2: and it's in several parts. Part one is this. There's

967
00:56:25,929 --> 00:56:30,629
Speaker 2: this wonderful tool that we love called the feelings wheel

968
00:56:30,789 --> 00:56:33,569
Speaker 2: or the emotions wheel. And it's just that it's a

969
00:56:33,909 --> 00:56:37,829
Speaker 2: wheel with a lot of different emotions on it. We'd

970
00:56:37,849 --> 00:56:39,859
Speaker 2: like you to print one out. They're very easy to

971
00:56:39,919 --> 00:56:43,279
Speaker 2: find online. And we'd like you every evening when you

972
00:56:43,319 --> 00:56:46,279
Speaker 2: have literally five minutes, each of you take turns. Jake

973
00:56:46,299 --> 00:56:49,169
Speaker 2: would like you to start. And just talk about your

974
00:56:49,209 --> 00:56:54,149
Speaker 2: day and name at least five feelings that correspond to

975
00:56:54,369 --> 00:56:57,809
Speaker 2: your narrative. You don't have to know them ahead of time.

976
00:56:57,849 --> 00:56:59,699
Speaker 2: You just look at the wheel when you know what

977
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:02,079
Speaker 2: you're feeling inside, but you can't articulate it. You look

978
00:57:02,119 --> 00:57:05,159
Speaker 2: at the wheel and just when I gave you multiple choices,

979
00:57:05,179 --> 00:57:07,399
Speaker 2: you said, yes, this one, yes, this one. That's how

980
00:57:07,439 --> 00:57:09,559
Speaker 2: the wheel functions. You look at it and go, oh, right,

981
00:57:09,639 --> 00:57:11,999
Speaker 2: it's this. But we'd like you every day to have

982
00:57:12,059 --> 00:57:14,569
Speaker 2: five minutes where each of you just talk about each

983
00:57:14,609 --> 00:57:18,639
Speaker 2: other's days, using and naming them. your feelings. So that's

984
00:57:19,239 --> 00:57:23,239
Speaker 2: the first one. The second assignment we're giving you is, Jake,

985
00:57:23,719 --> 00:57:28,879
Speaker 2: we want you to Google two articles about the effects

986
00:57:28,979 --> 00:57:34,379
Speaker 2: of yelling at your kids. And find it from reputable sources,

987
00:57:34,439 --> 00:57:37,559
Speaker 2: the Mayo Clinic, WebMD, and we'd like you to read

988
00:57:37,599 --> 00:57:40,589
Speaker 2: just a couple of short articles and then tell Becca

989
00:57:40,609 --> 00:57:42,789
Speaker 2: what you've learned from them so that you can have

990
00:57:42,829 --> 00:57:46,469
Speaker 2: a conversation and have discussions about the impact of yelling

991
00:57:46,529 --> 00:57:48,729
Speaker 2: at your kids. So that's not something you're ignoring, that

992
00:57:48,749 --> 00:57:52,099
Speaker 2: you're really talking about as you're trying to control the anger,

993
00:57:52,579 --> 00:57:54,639
Speaker 2: what is the impact of yelling at your kids at

994
00:57:54,679 --> 00:57:55,219
Speaker 2: young ages?

995
00:57:55,999 --> 00:57:56,199
Speaker 6: Okay.

996
00:57:58,439 --> 00:58:00,719
Speaker 1: And we think that that'll give you a good foundation

997
00:58:00,819 --> 00:58:05,339
Speaker 1: for the next exercise, which is that, Becca, we would

998
00:58:05,379 --> 00:58:09,129
Speaker 1: like you to write a letter, as if it's decades

999
00:58:09,169 --> 00:58:17,619
Speaker 1: in the future, from Isabella and Dean to Jake. about

1000
00:58:18,779 --> 00:58:22,399
Speaker 1: what their lives are like and what the effect of

1001
00:58:23,079 --> 00:58:25,819
Speaker 1: this yelling has had on them if it continues the

1002
00:58:25,859 --> 00:58:27,299
Speaker 1: way that it does. And we're going to imagine for

1003
00:58:27,339 --> 00:58:32,049
Speaker 1: this letter that it did. And please don't try to

1004
00:58:32,089 --> 00:58:36,709
Speaker 1: protect his feelings because Isabella and Dean will not try

1005
00:58:36,749 --> 00:58:43,209
Speaker 1: to protect his feelings. Kids who are yelled at will

1006
00:58:43,459 --> 00:58:47,489
Speaker 1: be very clear usually later in life about the impact

1007
00:58:47,529 --> 00:58:50,129
Speaker 1: that it had on them. And Jake, what we would

1008
00:58:50,169 --> 00:58:51,729
Speaker 1: like you to do is write a letter back when

1009
00:58:51,769 --> 00:58:55,209
Speaker 1: you get that letter to your children who are now

1010
00:58:55,269 --> 00:59:00,709
Speaker 1: adults about what you wish you had done differently, if

1011
00:59:00,769 --> 00:59:06,019
Speaker 1: indeed you do, and really be open and honest, just

1012
00:59:06,059 --> 00:59:08,759
Speaker 1: as open and honest as you were with Becca in

1013
00:59:08,779 --> 00:59:12,919
Speaker 1: the conversation today about other feelings. We want you to

1014
00:59:12,959 --> 00:59:14,919
Speaker 1: be really open and honest with them about how it

1015
00:59:14,959 --> 00:59:19,069
Speaker 1: feels to you knowing that this is how they feel

1016
00:59:19,489 --> 00:59:23,749
Speaker 1: as adults, given that the yelling didn't stop. And the

1017
00:59:23,809 --> 00:59:27,309
Speaker 1: good news about this is it's not actually happening in

1018
00:59:27,349 --> 00:59:30,239
Speaker 1: the future. You have a chance to do things differently

1019
00:59:30,299 --> 00:59:39,079
Speaker 1: should you so choose. And the last part is that

1020
00:59:39,999 --> 00:59:43,279
Speaker 1: we would like you to learn a little bit more

1021
00:59:43,299 --> 00:59:49,359
Speaker 1: about anger management. Because it sounds like you don't really

1022
00:59:49,419 --> 00:59:52,599
Speaker 1: have tools that have worked for you. So we would

1023
00:59:52,639 --> 00:59:56,679
Speaker 1: like you to join an anger management group. And I

1024
00:59:56,749 --> 00:59:59,469
Speaker 1: know that your time is limited. So there are also

1025
00:59:59,709 --> 01:00:02,429
Speaker 1: lots of online options where you can just zoom into

1026
01:00:02,449 --> 01:00:04,509
Speaker 1: the group. And we would like you to give it

1027
01:00:04,549 --> 01:00:07,869
Speaker 1: a try to see what it's like to hear other

1028
01:00:08,159 --> 01:00:11,319
Speaker 1: people talk about their experiences, because you are definitely not

1029
01:00:11,359 --> 01:00:14,539
Speaker 1: alone in this. Lots of people had modeling where they

1030
01:00:14,579 --> 01:00:17,349
Speaker 1: didn't know there was another way to manage their feelings

1031
01:00:17,449 --> 01:00:20,409
Speaker 1: and often they couldn't identify their feelings, which is something

1032
01:00:20,429 --> 01:00:24,789
Speaker 1: that you noticed in our conversation today. That sometimes, like

1033
01:00:24,909 --> 01:00:28,099
Speaker 1: I said, you just don't know what the words are

1034
01:00:28,159 --> 01:00:31,499
Speaker 1: for the feelings. And the one thing that's really easy

1035
01:00:31,519 --> 01:00:35,119
Speaker 1: to access is anger. So if we can get underneath that,

1036
01:00:36,159 --> 01:00:39,769
Speaker 1: you might be able to Have some tools that will

1037
01:00:39,789 --> 01:00:42,009
Speaker 1: be helpful for you. And maybe that'll help you take

1038
01:00:42,049 --> 01:00:44,989
Speaker 1: away some of the shame around it, realize you're not alone,

1039
01:00:45,589 --> 01:00:48,589
Speaker 1: and then get some really good information about what might

1040
01:00:48,629 --> 01:00:49,089
Speaker 1: be helpful.

1041
01:00:51,619 --> 01:00:51,849
Speaker 6: Okay.

1042
01:00:53,479 --> 01:00:54,559
Speaker 5: Thank you, Ari and Guy.

1043
01:01:01,239 --> 01:01:03,299
Speaker 1: You know, some couples can't do what they did, which

1044
01:01:03,399 --> 01:01:07,479
Speaker 1: is talk about something that's really difficult and then still

1045
01:01:07,519 --> 01:01:08,279
Speaker 1: stay connected.

1046
01:01:08,299 --> 01:01:08,379
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1047
01:01:08,909 --> 01:01:12,389
Speaker 1: And they were still holding hands even when some of

1048
01:01:12,409 --> 01:01:17,849
Speaker 1: the content was difficult to hear. They stayed present for

1049
01:01:17,889 --> 01:01:21,129
Speaker 1: each other. And I think the challenge for Jake is

1050
01:01:21,549 --> 01:01:27,579
Speaker 1: really the dissociating that he does. He knows intellectually that

1051
01:01:27,639 --> 01:01:30,859
Speaker 1: what he's doing is damaging to his children. And then

1052
01:01:30,899 --> 01:01:34,119
Speaker 1: he comes up with all kinds of reasons why it's

1053
01:01:34,719 --> 01:01:37,349
Speaker 1: not a priority for him. And I think that when

1054
01:01:37,389 --> 01:01:39,429
Speaker 1: he gets more in touch with his feelings, and I

1055
01:01:39,469 --> 01:01:43,429
Speaker 1: think really not being able to avoid what the future

1056
01:01:43,469 --> 01:01:45,829
Speaker 1: might look like, because when I brought that up at

1057
01:01:45,869 --> 01:01:49,439
Speaker 1: the end, he finally said, yeah, I get it. We

1058
01:01:49,459 --> 01:01:51,339
Speaker 1: don't know if he really gets it, but it was

1059
01:01:51,359 --> 01:01:53,519
Speaker 1: the first time that he acknowledged that he does.

1060
01:01:53,859 --> 01:01:54,079
Speaker 6: Right.

1061
01:01:54,119 --> 01:01:56,959
Speaker 2: And I also agree that he kind of knows intellectually

1062
01:01:56,979 --> 01:01:58,849
Speaker 2: that it's a problem, but that's why we gave him that.

1063
01:01:59,209 --> 01:02:02,019
Speaker 2: research assignment because he really needs to be clear that

1064
01:02:02,199 --> 01:02:04,659
Speaker 2: it is a problem it's not a maybe it's not

1065
01:02:04,979 --> 01:02:06,679
Speaker 2: oh you know i was okay.

1066
01:02:06,379 --> 01:02:09,279
Speaker 1: Somehow yeah it's not it's not just the tone when

1067
01:02:09,299 --> 01:02:11,419
Speaker 1: we talk to our kids is the content as well

1068
01:02:11,899 --> 01:02:13,519
Speaker 1: and he was saying that he says what the f

1069
01:02:13,559 --> 01:02:15,599
Speaker 1: to her and as parents we all have times when

1070
01:02:15,619 --> 01:02:19,649
Speaker 1: it wasn't our finest parenting moment but when it's consistent

1071
01:02:19,689 --> 01:02:22,629
Speaker 1: in the way that they're describing it's really important for

1072
01:02:22,669 --> 01:02:25,249
Speaker 1: him to understand the effect that it's going to have

1073
01:02:25,489 --> 01:02:28,429
Speaker 1: on his children and that it is having on his children.

1074
01:02:33,639 --> 01:02:36,779
Speaker 2: You're listening to Dear Therapists. We'll be back after a

1075
01:02:36,819 --> 01:02:37,339
Speaker 2: short break.

1076
01:02:49,359 --> 01:02:51,159
Speaker 1: So, Guy, we heard from Becca and Jake, and I'll

1077
01:02:51,199 --> 01:02:53,619
Speaker 1: be curious to hear how that went for them.

1078
01:02:54,989 --> 01:02:56,129
Speaker 5: Hey, Lori. Hey, Guy.

1079
01:02:56,189 --> 01:02:57,389
Speaker 3: This is Becca and Jake.

1080
01:02:57,569 --> 01:02:57,949
Speaker 5: Hello.

1081
01:02:58,889 --> 01:03:01,329
Speaker 4: We're getting back in touch just to update you on

1082
01:03:01,389 --> 01:03:02,729
Speaker 4: the assignments you gave us last week.

1083
01:03:03,659 --> 01:03:07,059
Speaker 6: For the feelings chart, we went over that every night

1084
01:03:07,459 --> 01:03:10,339
Speaker 6: and I feel like it sparked a lot of good conversations.

1085
01:03:12,119 --> 01:03:15,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, I feel like it added some depth to our conversations.

1086
01:03:16,159 --> 01:03:18,929
Speaker 4: And I did notice that Jake, just kind of in

1087
01:03:18,999 --> 01:03:23,349
Speaker 4: normal day-to-day conversations, talked more about feelings, especially other than

1088
01:03:23,409 --> 01:03:26,309
Speaker 4: just anger and frustration. So I can already see that

1089
01:03:26,349 --> 01:03:30,389
Speaker 4: paying off. For the second one, which was looking up

1090
01:03:30,409 --> 01:03:34,219
Speaker 4: the effects of yelling, I feel like Jake, it was

1091
01:03:34,259 --> 01:03:36,599
Speaker 4: difficult for him to confront that. I felt like he

1092
01:03:36,639 --> 01:03:38,859
Speaker 4: avoided it most of the week and it did lead

1093
01:03:38,879 --> 01:03:41,859
Speaker 4: to some nagging on my end. He ended up finding

1094
01:03:41,879 --> 01:03:46,349
Speaker 4: a really good series on YouTube that talked about it.

1095
01:03:46,679 --> 01:03:49,069
Speaker 4: And I think it really piqued his interest to keep

1096
01:03:49,109 --> 01:03:52,129
Speaker 4: looking for more. So he suggested doing this five-day Stop

1097
01:03:52,149 --> 01:03:55,349
Speaker 4: Yelling at Your Kids parenting challenge. So we're starting that,

1098
01:03:56,129 --> 01:04:00,509
Speaker 4: feeling optimistic about that. For the next assignment where I

1099
01:04:00,549 --> 01:04:05,409
Speaker 4: was writing the letter from Isabella and Dean's perspective, it

1100
01:04:05,449 --> 01:04:09,929
Speaker 4: was challenging because there were so many different effects that

1101
01:04:09,999 --> 01:04:13,199
Speaker 4: the yelling can have. So kind of encompassing everything in

1102
01:04:13,239 --> 01:04:16,659
Speaker 4: that was a little difficult. So I did send that

1103
01:04:16,779 --> 01:04:20,999
Speaker 4: over to Jake and I think it was tough for

1104
01:04:21,039 --> 01:04:25,689
Speaker 4: him to read and might not have been the most impactful. Like,

1105
01:04:25,729 --> 01:04:28,089
Speaker 4: I wonder if he needs something a little more concrete

1106
01:04:28,309 --> 01:04:29,029
Speaker 4: and tangible.

1107
01:04:29,049 --> 01:04:33,069
Speaker 6: It was difficult for me to put myself in the

1108
01:04:33,169 --> 01:04:38,069
Speaker 6: headspace of pretending to be in the future. And it

1109
01:04:38,109 --> 01:04:42,329
Speaker 6: didn't really resonate for me. As for the anger management classes,

1110
01:04:42,629 --> 01:04:46,109
Speaker 6: I'm not quite ready to jump into that yet. And

1111
01:04:46,149 --> 01:04:49,889
Speaker 6: I know I need to find coping mechanisms. which led

1112
01:04:49,949 --> 01:04:55,279
Speaker 6: me to a YouTube channel. So I'm going to start

1113
01:04:55,319 --> 01:04:57,039
Speaker 6: there and see how that works for me.

1114
01:04:59,179 --> 01:05:02,179
Speaker 4: Overall, this has created some moments of conflict in our

1115
01:05:02,199 --> 01:05:05,849
Speaker 4: relationship that weren't there before, but I feel like it's

1116
01:05:06,089 --> 01:05:09,249
Speaker 4: definitely an area where we can grow. And the couple

1117
01:05:09,269 --> 01:05:12,009
Speaker 4: of things that have happened since then, it's really helped

1118
01:05:12,049 --> 01:05:14,689
Speaker 4: me be more empathetic to see where Jake's coming from

1119
01:05:14,749 --> 01:05:17,709
Speaker 4: and where his mind might be at, because I have

1120
01:05:17,749 --> 01:05:22,209
Speaker 4: a better idea now one of the quotes that really

1121
01:05:22,249 --> 01:05:24,549
Speaker 4: stuck out to us in the parenting resource we were

1122
01:05:24,589 --> 01:05:28,789
Speaker 4: looking at was by Maya Angelou and it goes do

1123
01:05:28,829 --> 01:05:31,419
Speaker 4: the best you can until you know better than when

1124
01:05:31,459 --> 01:05:34,139
Speaker 4: you know better do better so I feel like at

1125
01:05:34,179 --> 01:05:36,519
Speaker 4: this point we're just getting to a place where we're

1126
01:05:36,539 --> 01:05:40,119
Speaker 4: building our knowledge and hopefully that'll lead to doing better

1127
01:05:40,139 --> 01:05:44,139
Speaker 4: in the future thank you again for all of your

1128
01:05:44,199 --> 01:05:46,999
Speaker 4: help and for taking the time to work with us

1129
01:05:47,099 --> 01:05:48,069
Speaker 4: on this thank you.

1130
01:05:53,149 --> 01:05:57,349
Speaker 2: Well, that reinforced a feeling I had during the session

1131
01:05:57,789 --> 01:06:02,899
Speaker 2: that Jake was really starting from square one when it

1132
01:06:02,959 --> 01:06:06,539
Speaker 2: came to this understanding of how yelling at the kids

1133
01:06:06,619 --> 01:06:10,019
Speaker 2: can impact them, how his being in touch with his

1134
01:06:10,099 --> 01:06:13,229
Speaker 2: own emotions or being able to express them or not

1135
01:06:13,309 --> 01:06:17,379
Speaker 2: is impacting him. He really didn't see that connection at all.

1136
01:06:17,579 --> 01:06:20,839
Speaker 2: And now he's starting to create some kind of connective

1137
01:06:20,879 --> 01:06:24,079
Speaker 2: tissue in his mind between these things, primarily by using

1138
01:06:24,159 --> 01:06:28,999
Speaker 2: the feelings chart. But I am a little disappointed that

1139
01:06:29,079 --> 01:06:33,129
Speaker 2: he didn't take more ownership of the anger and take

1140
01:06:33,189 --> 01:06:36,329
Speaker 2: more ownership of some of these tasks and really dive in.

1141
01:06:37,229 --> 01:06:40,969
Speaker 1: I think when we do these sessions, we want to

1142
01:06:41,269 --> 01:06:45,679
Speaker 1: hold the hope for their growth. And at the same time,

1143
01:06:45,699 --> 01:06:50,209
Speaker 1: it can be disappointing. And I think in this case,

1144
01:06:50,249 --> 01:06:54,929
Speaker 1: when other people are affected like children, it's really hard

1145
01:06:55,189 --> 01:06:59,429
Speaker 1: to have patience for the change to happen because you

1146
01:06:59,469 --> 01:07:02,119
Speaker 1: know that as this is going on, this is really

1147
01:07:02,179 --> 01:07:06,719
Speaker 1: affecting the children. And I think Becca is perhaps in

1148
01:07:06,739 --> 01:07:09,919
Speaker 1: a little bit of denial too, because she said this

1149
01:07:09,979 --> 01:07:12,779
Speaker 1: week brought up some conflict between them that she didn't

1150
01:07:12,839 --> 01:07:16,599
Speaker 1: know was there. And yet it seemed like it had

1151
01:07:16,639 --> 01:07:19,609
Speaker 1: been there or she wouldn't have written that letter to us.

1152
01:07:20,389 --> 01:07:22,549
Speaker 1: And I noticed too, that she did most of the

1153
01:07:22,689 --> 01:07:26,469
Speaker 1: talking for Jake. And so it seemed like she was

1154
01:07:26,509 --> 01:07:30,829
Speaker 1: sort of driving this and hoping that something would change,

1155
01:07:31,049 --> 01:07:32,689
Speaker 1: but it's really going to have to come from a

1156
01:07:32,749 --> 01:07:36,809
Speaker 1: place of Jake wanting to change. And there's something going

1157
01:07:36,829 --> 01:07:40,169
Speaker 1: on with Jake where he's sort of compartmentalizing things where

1158
01:07:40,189 --> 01:07:42,109
Speaker 1: he said, I couldn't really get into the space of

1159
01:07:42,149 --> 01:07:45,359
Speaker 1: that letter from the future. He's always got a reason

1160
01:07:45,819 --> 01:07:48,939
Speaker 1: that something isn't going to work in terms of helping

1161
01:07:48,999 --> 01:07:53,329
Speaker 1: him to grow and change in this area. And I

1162
01:07:53,409 --> 01:07:56,169
Speaker 1: noticed too, that they sometimes laugh through this and I

1163
01:07:56,209 --> 01:07:58,969
Speaker 1: know it's uncomfortable laughter, but it feels like something is

1164
01:07:58,989 --> 01:08:01,369
Speaker 1: going to need to happen, not just with Jake, but

1165
01:08:01,429 --> 01:08:03,569
Speaker 1: also with Becca, where they're really going to have to

1166
01:08:03,639 --> 01:08:07,159
Speaker 1: have a reckoning around this behavior has to stop. And

1167
01:08:07,219 --> 01:08:09,119
Speaker 1: what are we going to do? Because I don't think

1168
01:08:09,139 --> 01:08:11,519
Speaker 1: that they're really acting with the urgency that this deserves.

1169
01:08:12,719 --> 01:08:15,299
Speaker 2: I agree. But I also think, as I said, that

1170
01:08:15,339 --> 01:08:17,639
Speaker 2: he's starting from such an early point that if he

1171
01:08:17,679 --> 01:08:20,199
Speaker 2: warms up to it, if he gets interested in these

1172
01:08:20,689 --> 01:08:24,269
Speaker 2: YouTube videos that he's watching that a curiosity can build

1173
01:08:24,309 --> 01:08:27,609
Speaker 2: that might get him there. But that will depend on

1174
01:08:27,729 --> 01:08:30,139
Speaker 2: him doing it independently and really owning it at some

1175
01:08:30,159 --> 01:08:31,779
Speaker 2: point rather than Becker just pushing him.

1176
01:08:32,539 --> 01:08:34,299
Speaker 1: And I think the other piece is that when we're

1177
01:08:34,319 --> 01:08:37,759
Speaker 1: seeing a couple, it's generally two people have an issue.

1178
01:08:38,559 --> 01:08:40,559
Speaker 1: So it might look like one person has an issue,

1179
01:08:40,639 --> 01:08:43,309
Speaker 1: but somebody else is colluding with the issue. And here

1180
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:46,909
Speaker 1: it's Becca. Becca really is afraid to take a stand.

1181
01:08:47,509 --> 01:08:50,249
Speaker 1: And while it's important that she have empathy for whatever

1182
01:08:50,309 --> 01:08:54,569
Speaker 1: he might be dealing with, she's not setting boundaries. And

1183
01:08:54,589 --> 01:08:57,409
Speaker 1: I think that it's really important for Becca to look

1184
01:08:57,449 --> 01:09:01,769
Speaker 1: into herself. Becca, if you're listening to think about what

1185
01:09:01,889 --> 01:09:05,339
Speaker 1: boundaries you want to set for yourself Because it takes

1186
01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:08,559
Speaker 1: two to work on a problem like this.

1187
01:09:13,749 --> 01:09:16,269
Speaker 2: Next week, we're going to check in with Nicole from

1188
01:09:16,329 --> 01:09:19,169
Speaker 2: season two to hear how she's doing a year later.

1189
01:09:19,849 --> 01:09:23,189
Speaker 3: She was basically saying, I can't be with him anymore.

1190
01:09:23,209 --> 01:09:25,729
Speaker 3: I don't even like him anymore. I don't think I'm

1191
01:09:25,749 --> 01:09:27,209
Speaker 3: in love with him. I don't even want to have

1192
01:09:27,249 --> 01:09:28,169
Speaker 3: sex with him anymore.

1193
01:09:29,289 --> 01:09:32,349
Speaker 1: If you're enjoying our podcast, don't forget to subscribe for

1194
01:09:32,409 --> 01:09:35,289
Speaker 1: free so that you don't miss any episodes. And please

1195
01:09:35,309 --> 01:09:37,989
Speaker 1: help support Dear Therapist by telling your friends about it

1196
01:09:38,269 --> 01:09:41,509
Speaker 1: and leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. Your reviews really

1197
01:09:41,549 --> 01:09:42,729
Speaker 1: help people to find the show.

1198
01:09:43,729 --> 01:09:45,809
Speaker 2: If you have a dilemma you'd like to discuss with us,

1199
01:09:46,299 --> 01:09:53,079
Speaker 2: email us at laurieandguy at iheartmedia.com. Our executive producer is

1200
01:09:53,119 --> 01:09:57,659
Speaker 2: Noel Brown. We're produced and edited by Josh Fisher. Additional

1201
01:09:57,739 --> 01:10:02,339
Speaker 2: editing support by Helena Rosen, John Washington, and Zachary Fisher.

1202
01:10:02,799 --> 01:10:07,389
Speaker 2: Our interns are Ben Bernstein, Emily Gutierrez, and Silver Lifton.

1203
01:10:08,009 --> 01:10:11,569
Speaker 2: And special thanks to our... podcast fairy godmother, Katie Couric.

1204
01:10:12,009 --> 01:10:14,089
Speaker 2: We can't wait to see you at our next session.

1205
01:10:14,849 --> 01:10:17,479
Speaker 2: Dear Therapist is a production of iHeartRadio.