Speaker 1: Hey, guys, it's your celebrity mentor Cheryl Burke back again
Speaker 1: with Alexia and Kelly, and we're going to dive back
Speaker 1: into our conversation with divorce attorney Dennis Vitrano. What profession
Speaker 1: has the highest divorce rate?
Speaker 2: I find, uh, firefighters, lawns, they're so hot. I think
Speaker 2: the service industry.
Speaker 3: Is difficult, military, military, military.
Speaker 4: What about I would say finances, and you wouldn't say finance.
Speaker 2: I feel finance too. I think Look, I think with
Speaker 2: my experience with the finance world is there they're just
Speaker 2: like there is so much money and so much you know.
Speaker 3: The women put up with it. Well, yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Mean that's part of it too, a little bit.
Speaker 5: But I don't know if it's necessarily the money.
Speaker 4: But right now, like people know, these guys in finance
Speaker 4: or women people in finance, people in finance are working
Speaker 4: twenty two hours a day right.
Speaker 5: Now too, and you don't even know what this is
Speaker 5: going to be.
Speaker 4: And I just think that the stress of that is
Speaker 4: really obviously the firefighters as well. I'm just any like
Speaker 4: super high stressful environment. I just to jump back to separation,
Speaker 4: like I'm actually surprised by that because I would assume that.
Speaker 5: I mean, I understand the playball part of it.
Speaker 4: But I would assume that if sometimes people it's it's
Speaker 4: an either or scenario.
Speaker 5: You're either like, okay, you've you've separated, you've been apart
Speaker 5: from each other.
Speaker 4: You either miss each other, or you know you've been
Speaker 4: separated and the other person, or you know, you're both
Speaker 4: like seeing other people and then it's just over.
Speaker 3: So I thought that was actually interesting. I know, but
Speaker 3: I feel like you because that's like my situation.
Speaker 1: I also think that maybe women it takes longer for
Speaker 1: them to just get over it.
Speaker 6: Maybe I get this whole new era of women just
Speaker 6: wanting to be alone and and you know, and healing
Speaker 6: and just you know, self love and just I totally
Speaker 6: get it.
Speaker 1: They do say that women who are alone, child free,
Speaker 1: single women that they are the happiest population. Why do
Speaker 1: you think that is?
Speaker 2: And the stat also says that they tend to live longer. Correct, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: we do.
Speaker 1: This is my third life. I'm already like one hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty.
Speaker 6: I feel like men with one day age like they
Speaker 6: really need the men that stay married. If that stay
Speaker 6: married or have a companion, they live longer because us
Speaker 6: women take care of them, thank you.
Speaker 1: They don't know how they're on.
Speaker 2: And I was about to say, are you familiar with
Speaker 2: the phrase man child? So so you get.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't matter the age.
Speaker 3: Of course, right, the mummy complex, it's a real thing.
Speaker 1: It's a real thing. How important is it emotionally and
Speaker 1: legally to get divorced? I guess you know, you hear
Speaker 1: a lot of people who takes so long to get divorced,
Speaker 1: five years, all of that. So what is your take
Speaker 1: on that.
Speaker 2: Well, it's a couple of different things. I think that.
Speaker 2: I think part of the reason why the divorce raised
Speaker 2: rate has spiked, and part of the reason why I think,
Speaker 2: you know, women are filing for divorce more frequently is
Speaker 2: because they realize how short life is, and they realize
Speaker 2: how important it is to be happy, and they realize
Speaker 2: how important it is to model what a strong, meaningful,
Speaker 2: fulfilling relationship should look like for their kids. Okay, So,
Speaker 2: so to talk about how important that is mentally and emotionally,
Speaker 2: it can't put a price tag on that, you know,
Speaker 2: there's no And it's funny because the ladies that come
Speaker 2: into my office that the vast majority of them like
Speaker 2: I don't care about his retirement plan or whether he
Speaker 2: takes the more expensive car. I care about my freedom,
Speaker 2: my sanity, my happiness, and before that, all of those
Speaker 2: mis typically comes number one my kids. So they're seeing that.
Speaker 6: And in your case, since you're a divorce lawyer, obviously
Speaker 6: all the women that come in there are women that
Speaker 6: are sharing these stories. You know, where they've probably been
Speaker 6: in relationships with men that have been controlling that you know,
Speaker 6: now they want, you know, their freedom and now they're
Speaker 6: in a different stage in their lives and children, older,
Speaker 6: et cetera. Obviously, these are the women that you're seeing.
Speaker 6: Nobody's been happy in their relationship because that's why they're
Speaker 6: there to see you and to fill for divorce.
Speaker 1: I mean also like coming from a divorce family, it
Speaker 1: was not I'm grateful my mom got a divorce to
Speaker 1: my father. I think it would have been so traumatic, right,
Speaker 1: and it happened when I was two, but still too Really,
Speaker 1: those are like vital years of a child's life, and
Speaker 1: no matter if they can communicate it or not, you're
Speaker 1: the body keeps a score and it is held in
Speaker 1: their body and then it then reflects their dating pattern.
Speaker 1: It's a freaking domino effect and no wonder like it is.
Speaker 1: Of course you have to kind of change the environment
Speaker 1: if it's toxic, because you can have kids around that
Speaker 1: environment unless you want your kids to continue on that.
Speaker 1: You know, generational trauma, as far as I'm concerned.
Speaker 2: The body keeps score. I like that. I'm going to
Speaker 2: use that as long as you don't mind.
Speaker 4: Well, it's so funny because we were always talking about
Speaker 4: generational but I love that. I mean, I think that's
Speaker 4: really smart, the generational trauma. I think I think that's
Speaker 4: something that people are sure down, you know, with one.
Speaker 4: You know, you're seeing your role models and how they
Speaker 4: respond and react. And that was another thing too, you know,
Speaker 4: outside of just like the fundamentals of divorce, Like it's
Speaker 4: you know, when Cheryl and I spoke about this, it's
Speaker 4: just like she always asked me, like.
Speaker 5: How do you feel? And people don't ask you how
Speaker 5: you feel after.
Speaker 4: You've gotten divorced or you're in the process of getting divorced.
Speaker 4: It's kind of like when you say you're getting divorced,
Speaker 4: they're like, oh wow, like you're just kind of some
Speaker 4: kind of baller and it's not like no, no, no,
Speaker 4: like I have real feelings and I'm traumatized and I
Speaker 4: need to figure out how to move forward.
Speaker 5: And it took me so long to onto like you.
Speaker 4: Know, that's why one thing I hated about this the
Speaker 4: word uncoupling. I just thought that was so like generic
Speaker 4: and it's just so difficult.
Speaker 3: To you know when you're so used to it either zile.
Speaker 4: And you know, it's not the lifestyle, it's not the money.
Speaker 4: It's just like you know, waking up with the person,
Speaker 4: talking to the person and comfortable.
Speaker 1: It's comfortable plan.
Speaker 4: You know, Doc like you just say, we're saying before
Speaker 4: like time does pass so quickly. I mean we've all,
Speaker 4: like you know, seen so much happen, and it's just
Speaker 4: like I'm just constantly now thinking to myself like how
Speaker 4: do I feel?
Speaker 5: Every day, I'm like, how do I feel? How do
Speaker 5: I feel?
Speaker 2: And it's funny, it's people ask you so many other things,
Speaker 2: Like they want to talk about you know, they want
Speaker 2: to ask what's going on with your divorce? They want
Speaker 2: to talk about this.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, can we talk about that?
Speaker 6: How people are so nosy you have to really block
Speaker 6: out the noise because everyone has an opinion, of course,
Speaker 6: you know, especially if you're a public person, you know,
Speaker 6: like myself and Kelly and Share actually the three of us.
Speaker 3: So it's really hard.
Speaker 6: You have to, you know, just forget about everyone's opinion
Speaker 6: because according to how they've lived their life.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 6: I have friends that have put up with their husbands
Speaker 6: cheating in them all their lives, and then they're the
Speaker 6: first ones to say, oh, you can't put up with that.
Speaker 6: Yet you've done it, you know what I mean, and
Speaker 6: it was worth it to you, So, you know, I
Speaker 6: feel like it it gets really really difficult to you know,
Speaker 6: to be you know, who we are and have a
Speaker 6: relationship these days, because you know, our lives are out there,
Speaker 6: and I think that makes marriage so much more difficult,
Speaker 6: you know. And that was my question. Do you do
Speaker 6: you think there's no pressure on the idea of marriage.
Speaker 3: And that's why they fail.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 6: I feel like everybody's just so caught up on like, okay,
Speaker 6: like get married and what if it doesn't work?
Speaker 3: Like, so, how do you feel about that?
Speaker 6: Then most things will be considering, just like lifelong companionship
Speaker 6: versus the traditional marriage.
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 2: Look, I think let's start by going back to one
Speaker 2: thing that you mentioned. I think being in the public
Speaker 2: eye is very real difficult when you're going through a
Speaker 2: divorce process. Everybody has an opinion, everybody's weighing, and everybody's
Speaker 2: watching you. But I think the best thing you can
Speaker 2: do in those sorts of circumstances is surround yourself with
Speaker 2: those people in your life who are going to ask
Speaker 2: you the question exactly like you said, Kelly, are you okay,
Speaker 2: and really givishit about what the answer is okay, really
Speaker 2: care what your answer is, and not that they want
Speaker 2: to judge, and not that they want to scuttle, but
Speaker 2: and not that they want to tell you what you
Speaker 2: should have done in the mistakes that you made or
Speaker 2: judge you that they just want to listen to you
Speaker 2: and really care about how you're doing.
Speaker 6: I mean, the thing is that the people that love
Speaker 6: or protect you. Everybody has an opinion.
Speaker 1: But for people who really like what you were saying,
Speaker 1: genuinely ask the question. There's not a lot out there,
Speaker 1: you know, so maybe it's quality over quantity, right.
Speaker 6: They don't want to know how you feel. They want
Speaker 6: to know like what's going on, like what's like what's
Speaker 6: really going on? But yeah, right, I mean, I am lucky,
Speaker 6: though I do have a lot of you know, friends
Speaker 6: that are like my family.
Speaker 1: I don't actually I could say that I have. I
Speaker 1: can count on one hand my friends if like seriously,
Speaker 1: and for me, that's okay, and it's not again, it's
Speaker 1: not about quantity. But since I've gotten sober for the
Speaker 1: past six years, you know, and since I have continued
Speaker 1: to work on myself and is so overused now the work.
Speaker 1: But like it is what it is, it has you know,
Speaker 1: I have actually asked out a lot of people because
Speaker 1: it's not so much about them. I'm saying that I
Speaker 1: for me, this is just everyone comes into your life
Speaker 1: at a certain time in your life, I believe. And
Speaker 1: then also we all evolve and sometimes it's together and
Speaker 1: sometimes it's not same in a marriage and I can't
Speaker 1: even judge that, like that's just human nature, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but even as you said before, I know you're
Speaker 2: kidding a little bit, like I'm your only friend. But
Speaker 2: here's here's my defense. If if you have one, one
Speaker 2: good one, that's enough.
Speaker 1: Yeah enough, And that takes a lot of effort too.
Speaker 1: You know. It's a very relationship.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 4: It's even interesting like when you're when you're going through
Speaker 4: almost getting married, and then you break off that marriage.
Speaker 5: I mean being on.
Speaker 4: This podcast, as like I said before, has been so
Speaker 4: cathartic for me because it's a safe place for me
Speaker 4: to talk honestly. And you know, I wrote a letter
Speaker 4: to my future husband.
Speaker 1: I saw that. Oh it made me cry.
Speaker 3: What does he look like? Kelly? How is he not
Speaker 3: like what he looks like?
Speaker 6: No? No, no, not like not physically like for you?
Speaker 6: What does he look like? Not physically, but like what
Speaker 6: are the qualities that? What are the topics here?
Speaker 1: I was just joking someone.
Speaker 5: Who's very nurturing, like I need nurturing.
Speaker 4: People are always like saying to me how strong I am,
Speaker 4: and actually I'm actually the opposite. I just project being strong,
Speaker 4: just kind of like you know, Cheryl talks.
Speaker 6: About it's a defense like that too, and we're really
Speaker 6: soft inside.
Speaker 4: I'm going to take care of it everybody, Yes, project everybody,
Speaker 4: but actually I'm the one that never gets protected or
Speaker 4: taken care of. So I would like someone strong emotionally
Speaker 4: and someone who has a lot of you know, personal value,
Speaker 4: like not just like who they are as a person
Speaker 4: and like what they do, and just have a lot
Speaker 4: of integrity, because that's something that after going through all
Speaker 4: of these different, you know, situations for so long since
Speaker 4: I got divorced. You know, I've just noticed that men,
Speaker 4: a lot of men that I've you know, been around,
Speaker 4: or they just have no personal value. And that was
Speaker 4: something that I was always like honestly offended by.
Speaker 5: I just was like, you can't even like.
Speaker 1: Stand personal value like self respect or like.
Speaker 4: Respect, and just like you know, it was always like
Speaker 4: they would be like playing. It used to like a
Speaker 4: lot of guys like play a victim role around me.
Speaker 3: Oh god, I hate.
Speaker 4: That just because I'm projecting strength is not strong.
Speaker 1: Like people will call me always.
Speaker 3: Like she's just that means you're strong, Cheryl.
Speaker 1: Dennis, you're such a good listener.
Speaker 5: Are you sing both of your ears?
Speaker 1: Dennis?
Speaker 2: This is but listen, honestly, this conversation we're having right now,
Speaker 2: and we're talking about like hey, how we're sharing our
Speaker 2: experiences and you know, talking back for than asking questions.
Speaker 2: People listening to these podcasts need these podcasts. They need
Speaker 2: to know what to do through the divorce process. They
Speaker 2: need to know there's hope after the divorce process. They're
Speaker 2: not alone, right.
Speaker 7: Yeah, Okay, So then I have a question, what do
Speaker 7: people need to know in order to make the divorce
Speaker 7: like the smooth now that you're saying that such thing, right,
Speaker 7: a smooth divorce.
Speaker 2: Yes, of course, I think divorces are difficult. So so again,
Speaker 2: I know I'm full of stories, but I represented someone
Speaker 2: years ago. This woman was at a point where she
Speaker 2: loathed her husband with every fiber of her being, couldn't
Speaker 2: stand him. Case took longer than anticipated into court. Now,
Speaker 2: you know, the way you do settlements and divorce cases
Speaker 2: is you either do a written contract or you will
Speaker 2: do it on the record in the courthouse in front
Speaker 2: of the judge and actually say orally yet like, yes,
Speaker 2: this is our agreement, this is what we did, blah
Speaker 2: blah blah, and they do what we call an elocution,
Speaker 2: which means you swear them and say, you know, nobody's
Speaker 2: threatened you, you know, coerced you into reaching this agreement.
Speaker 2: And when they said, okay, we're issuing a judgment of divorce,
Speaker 2: you're divorced, my client just sat at the table and
Speaker 2: openly wept, cried hysterically. And I think to a certain
Speaker 2: degree it was about being relieved to be through the process.
Speaker 2: But to a certain degree, like you were saying before Kelly,
Speaker 2: it's every aspect of your life is going to change.
Speaker 2: You wake up next to the person or you don't.
Speaker 2: Your situation with your kids has changed, where you live
Speaker 2: may change. So many things are changing. All the things
Speaker 2: you came to know as your life will now change.
Speaker 2: So when you say yes, let's say we have the
Speaker 2: most amicable divorce possible, it's a mediation, we reach an agreement.
Speaker 2: Everybody's happy still, So your sense of normalcy is going
Speaker 2: to change one hundred and eighty degrees, even in the
Speaker 2: most amicable divorce. So it's a very stressful process no
Speaker 2: matter how you look at it, even when it's quote
Speaker 2: unquote easy right. And I think I think the biggest
Speaker 2: thing people need to do through the process is to
Speaker 2: prepare themselves before the divorce. What you do in the
Speaker 2: divorce process is important, but I think it's more important
Speaker 2: to prepare yourself in advance. And when I say prepare
Speaker 2: yourself in advance, you know we talked about that one
Speaker 2: person you can count on. You know, you need to
Speaker 2: have a support system, which which will include a therapist,
Speaker 2: which will include friends. And I always say, sometimes you
Speaker 2: want that friend who's going to kick you in the
Speaker 2: ass when you need it, and you want that friend
Speaker 2: who's going to be a shoulder to cry and give
Speaker 2: you a hug when you need it.
Speaker 1: That's what therapists are. They're not supposed to be biased,
Speaker 1: right like aramists two.
Speaker 2: But I think sometimes, you know, friends and support system
Speaker 2: do something slightly different.
Speaker 1: What because I didn't find what well?
Speaker 2: I mean listen, Like I said, everybody's situation is different.
Speaker 2: But I think a therapist are going to listen, but
Speaker 2: they're going to give you a professional eye. It's different
Speaker 2: than than your best friend.
Speaker 5: It's just that it's going to sound strange.
Speaker 4: But right before I broke off my engagement, I started
Speaker 4: working out with a new trainer and he was pushing
Speaker 4: me so hard. And right before I was going to
Speaker 4: be getting h getting married, Like, I was drinking. I'm
Speaker 4: not a big drinker, and I was drinking every single
Speaker 4: night a lot, not I mean a lot, like not
Speaker 4: thousands of drinks, but I would definitely drink, you know,
Speaker 4: definitely two or three glasses of wine at night, and
Speaker 4: wasn't sleeping a lot, was taking melotonin every night and
Speaker 4: just you know, not eating a lot, and not like
Speaker 4: trying to fit into a dress or anything. I just
Speaker 4: was like trying to navigate that I had to be
Speaker 4: up in the morning because I had to work, because
Speaker 4: I had to make money, but I need at the
Speaker 4: end of the day, I needed to like figure out
Speaker 4: like how I could. You know, Sharyl and I talk
Speaker 4: about this like numb myself and I started working out
Speaker 4: with this trainer right before I was getting married, a
Speaker 4: new trainer. This is like maybe a like two weeks before,
Speaker 4: and the way that he was training me was so
Speaker 4: taxing that I'm going to literally start crying, Like it
Speaker 4: was so taxing that my whole body was just like
Speaker 4: releasing from everything, and I was just like I can't
Speaker 4: do this.
Speaker 5: I just can't do this.
Speaker 4: And it wasn't the exercise, it was that my whole
Speaker 4: body was saying, you need your body needs to Like
Speaker 4: I mean, Cheryl, you're a dancers, you want you understand this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's true. The body keeps a score like
Speaker 1: you're you're letting trauma release, trauma off your body exactly.
Speaker 5: It was a trauma release. And so I suggest anyone
Speaker 5: who's getting.
Speaker 4: Through a divorce to to enlist if you can, if
Speaker 4: you can afford higher a trainer, something different like whatever
Speaker 4: whatever it is.
Speaker 5: Yeah, take a dance class.
Speaker 3: You got to move your body, do something for yourself
Speaker 3: and move your body. I agree. Literally, it was.
Speaker 5: An absolute game changer. And then I remember.
Speaker 4: After the day after I had called it off, I
Speaker 4: my whole my whole head. I was having these chronic
Speaker 4: headaches and my whole head was just clear.
Speaker 5: I didn't have and I mean.
Speaker 1: With it like that, it was just feel stagnant energy
Speaker 1: anywhere gone.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was like that's done, We're done.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 4: So I think that that's really important outside of obviously
Speaker 4: coming to see you, Dennis, but just to have someone
Speaker 4: who is physically helping you, like move and just have
Speaker 4: that kinetic energy and not that you know, frenetic energy.
Speaker 5: That was one thing that really was a game.
Speaker 1: Changer for me. How do you not take the emotions
Speaker 1: from us, like from not us, but from your clients, Like,
Speaker 1: how do you not take that home with you?
Speaker 2: I think the way I do that best is to
Speaker 2: make sure that I'm giving the right advice to people.
Speaker 2: I mean, it is, it is a taxing area of law,
Speaker 2: but I think if you approach it with care and
Speaker 2: concern and not like you're just you know, I say
Speaker 2: that our industry has become files on a conveyor belt.
Speaker 2: It's become hey, this is what I did. Like we
Speaker 2: said when we at the outset, Oh hey, you got
Speaker 2: to make a living somehow are you going to make money?
Speaker 2: And you're gonna you know, it's going to be.
Speaker 5: A fire, you know.
Speaker 2: And the course system too. So okay, we've got this couple,
Speaker 2: we're gonna we're gonna divide the assets, are gonna get
Speaker 2: the car going to house. Okay, we're gonna sign judgment doors, Okay, goodbye,
Speaker 2: And you're like, what the hell my life is in
Speaker 2: a shambles this whole process because this area of law,
Speaker 2: there's so many emotions mixed in with law, so different
Speaker 2: than any other area of law. That's what makes it
Speaker 2: so different.
Speaker 6: Agree, and there's children involved, there's a family involved in children.
Speaker 3: I could never do it, honestly.
Speaker 6: It's it's I mean, I really admire respect like what
Speaker 6: you do, even though you're you know, sometimes it doesn't
Speaker 6: work out for the man or for the woman, whatever
Speaker 6: it may be.
Speaker 3: But it's just a really tough specialty because family law
Speaker 3: involving children.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you. I want to give advice, that's like,
Speaker 2: you know, listen, when you come into my office, I
Speaker 2: want to make sure the divorce is where you're going.
Speaker 2: I want to make sure that you're absolutely certain that's
Speaker 2: where you want to go. I want to make sure
Speaker 2: you if you need counseling, that you have a counselor involved,
Speaker 2: that if you know you're seeking out friends and family
Speaker 2: to support you, you're thinking out the logistics of it.
Speaker 2: I mean, I can't make you know. Listen, there are
Speaker 2: things that Remember your lawyer. And here's an important point
Speaker 2: to make. I think when people think of divorce, they think, oh,
Speaker 2: I get a lawyer. I'm good, I get a divorce lawyer.
Speaker 2: Your divorce lawyer is going to give you legal advice,
Speaker 2: and then you're gonna leave their office and they're gonna
Speaker 2: and if they're a good one, they're gonna do the
Speaker 2: best they can to represent you.
Speaker 6: And sometimes it's not even such good advice. By the way,
Speaker 6: what are your respect right right?
Speaker 2: It depends on you.
Speaker 4: You can't have to go home and try to manage
Speaker 4: and navigate just saying but yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but Kelly, what you just said right there. Then
Speaker 2: then we send you home to go home and navigate,
Speaker 2: and you're gonna do everything you can to shield your
Speaker 2: kids from the process like you did, and you're gonna
Speaker 2: put your kids first and put yourself second. And then
Speaker 2: what we want you to do is try to find
Speaker 2: a way to put yourself first. Try to find a
Speaker 2: way to get yourself through the process where you're intact
Speaker 2: when you come out the other side. And that's those
Speaker 2: are the things that we can't help you with.
Speaker 1: But didn't they by calling you? Didn't they put themselves first?
Speaker 2: You know they did? And I think that's a good point.
Speaker 2: I think that's the starting point, but I think it
Speaker 2: goes so much deeper than that.
Speaker 6: But even so, don't you think if the woman is
Speaker 6: going to see you, she's already made up her mind.
Speaker 6: I mean, it could be difficult, but I believe that
Speaker 6: she's the one that initiates it, and she goes to
Speaker 6: see it, it's something that she already wanted. So, like,
Speaker 6: I don't know why don't want to continue this because
Speaker 6: I mean, I mean, I'm a woman, but I know
Speaker 6: of a lot of women that just want to like
Speaker 6: drag out the divorce.
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's because of the money.
Speaker 1: I'll be straight up. My divorce attorneys asked me those
Speaker 1: questions like, are you know what is go? I wanted
Speaker 1: to make sure that I wasn't reacting in yet instead
Speaker 1: responding right, so like this was, you know, something that
Speaker 1: we had long discussions about. It wasn't like it wasn't
Speaker 1: a let's just go you know, No, you know, he
Speaker 1: appreciated the fact that I've been therapy since I was
Speaker 1: literally four years old, and that I've been with this
Speaker 1: last one that I'm still with for fifteen years consistently.
Speaker 1: So it's like, you know, this wasn't a pure reaction.
Speaker 1: This was over time obviously, and then there's a time
Speaker 1: when it's just no longer working, So what do I do?
Speaker 1: What's the next step?
Speaker 2: The vast majority of those cases absolutely right, in fact,
Speaker 2: the overwhelming majority. However, you're having conversations with clients and
Speaker 2: these consultations, not like you're a lawyer trying to get
Speaker 2: a case to put their case on a compayor belt
Speaker 2: and make money off of it, I hope, not trying
Speaker 2: to have a conversation with clients like you give a
Speaker 2: crap about what's happening in their life and them individually.
Speaker 2: So that that's again I think that's that's that's hard
Speaker 2: to find focus it is and that's a shame.
Speaker 5: And you know what the.
Speaker 4: Big what I'm hearing is like the big void is
Speaker 4: that there's information of like how to get divorced, and
Speaker 4: there's information of why to get divorced, and there's information
Speaker 4: of you know, the the unraveling or the finance or
Speaker 4: the settlement agreements, the contract, but there's no next chapter advice.
Speaker 1: That's what we're here for.
Speaker 5: Girl.
Speaker 3: Dennis, are you working on your new book?
Speaker 2: I am, Actually I feel like.
Speaker 1: You need to write a book, but there isn't only
Speaker 1: one where you'll.
Speaker 6: Have both the legal and then the therapeutics. So that
Speaker 6: could be you know, you definitely have the audience.
Speaker 5: Like day one you signed your agreement, you're divorced. What
Speaker 5: do you do now?
Speaker 1: Don't go have a divorce party? Like that's ridiculous.
Speaker 2: I think, Look, there's so much that the I mean,
Speaker 2: you you touched on it, and Kelly, you're one hundred
Speaker 2: percent right. It's the tip of the iceberg. And you're right, Cheryl,
Speaker 2: it isn't one path only for one person. But I
Speaker 2: think for people, we need to do the best we
Speaker 2: can as professionals in this space or people with experience
Speaker 2: and having been through the process the podcast. Yeah, well,
Speaker 2: right to get the word out because I tay. I
Speaker 2: tell clients when they come into my office, like, Okay,
Speaker 2: what I want you to do throughout the process? Consume information,
Speaker 2: Listen to podcasts, talk to friends who've been through it,
Speaker 2: Watch Instagram shows, watch things on TikTok, listen to videos.
Speaker 2: Does it mean that everything they tell you is one
Speaker 2: hundred percent accurate? No, But as you gain more information,
Speaker 2: what you gain is calm and that's the most valuable
Speaker 2: thing you can have through process.
Speaker 4: Okay, speaking of I'll come, how come there are these
Speaker 4: these divorces or these you know that last like five
Speaker 4: seven years?
Speaker 5: Like what what is the value of that?
Speaker 3: You just want to get back at the person.
Speaker 6: You despite the person, because I know those divorces and
Speaker 6: it's ridiculous.
Speaker 1: Could it be money situation? It could be situational though
Speaker 1: in that sense where like they have like if they
Speaker 1: wait a certain amount of years, they could pay less.
Speaker 2: Alexia just answered it. She got it right from my experience.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's despite of course, it's a spite. They want
Speaker 6: to spite them. And what do you hit the what
Speaker 6: do you hit the man with the money?
Speaker 1: It's like, why do people go back to abusive relationships.
Speaker 6: No where do you hit them the money. That's where
Speaker 6: it hurts. The men don't have the cunities and their
Speaker 6: emotions that we do for us. It's like, Okay, you
Speaker 6: can take away our car, but don't take away like,
Speaker 6: you know, something that's meaningful to us. You know, maybe
Speaker 6: like a picture, an art or something that meant something
Speaker 6: to us when we were together with my children.
Speaker 2: I told judges on a regular basis when.
Speaker 3: It get a mend box or whatever it was they did.
Speaker 3: I mean vice versa.
Speaker 2: Can I think and vice versa? Listen. I tell judges
Speaker 2: and opposing counsel in these cases and clients regularly. I say,
Speaker 2: most of these divorces are math problems. When it comes
Speaker 2: to the finances. There is nothing more than a math
Speaker 2: not well and the and the prenup keeps it. The
Speaker 2: prenup keeps it clearer. But generally speaking, at least in
Speaker 2: New York State, it's pretty straightforward. A lot of the
Speaker 2: issues what what tends to complicate things? Oh way, there
Speaker 2: are remnants of a broken relationship that you never resolved
Speaker 2: for yourself and feel like you need to you need
Speaker 2: to get like like you know, she always did this
Speaker 2: during their relationship and now and I never really saw
Speaker 2: this ass and now I'm gonna figure it out. I've
Speaker 2: gotta let go of that stuff.
Speaker 1: Let go and let God. Folks, let go and let God. Dennis,
Speaker 1: we can talk to you all damn day. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much, so much.
Speaker 2: Yes, listen, I'm hearing your stories though. It's amazing. I
Speaker 2: just love it.
Speaker 1: When I get married again, I'll make sure to move
Speaker 1: to New York and hire you for my next divorce.
Speaker 2: I think. Listen, if you haven't heard this before, the
Speaker 2: fact that you've made it through the divorce process intact
Speaker 2: says to me, you're incredibly brave because it's so difficult
Speaker 2: to have that level of courage to get through that.
Speaker 2: People don't realize how difficult it is.
Speaker 1: It's so difficult that I'm a virgin, I'm born again,
Speaker 1: and I am single for the rest of my life
Speaker 1: because I'm loving it.
Speaker 2: But you love you. That's the key, that is true,
Speaker 2: That's all that matters, that will that will take you everywhere.
Speaker 1: I love now, you love you, You love you, and
Speaker 1: I love you. We're all one, okay, folks, we're all one.
Speaker 2: Good to talk to you, ladies.
Speaker 1: We know you're good when you can handle three strong women.
Speaker 3: His wife is a strong woman too strong.
Speaker 2: Yes, my mother in law and my mom and top
Speaker 2: of the craft. My wife is she She's a She's
Speaker 2: a top strong, willed, successful, confident lady. And I wouldn't
Speaker 2: have it any other way.
Speaker 3: So, now that you're saying that, do you think the
Speaker 3: marriage is last longer when the woman is a strong
Speaker 3: woman like that or a weak woman. I always have
Speaker 3: the right partner.
Speaker 1: Only if your mother was strong, only if like Seriously.
Speaker 2: I always thought that because I was a big personality,
Speaker 2: very confident person very strong willed, I needed somebody who
Speaker 2: was gonna kind of like acquiesce to me. And what
Speaker 2: I realized over time I'm fifty three years old. Now
Speaker 2: what I realized over time, Oh thank you when I
Speaker 2: met my wife is I need the opposite of that.
Speaker 2: I need someone who inspires me, who matches my energy,
Speaker 2: who I can look up to, who I don't feel
Speaker 2: like needs to live in my shadows. Sometimes I live
Speaker 2: in hers, sometimes she lives in mind and we stand
Speaker 2: together with us.
Speaker 1: And I that you are you're aware of that is amazing, amazing.
Speaker 2: My wife is pretty amazing.
Speaker 1: So I'm very lucky, so I in her next We'll
Speaker 1: see Yes, thank you, Dennis. Happy holidays Hannis by Dennis.
Speaker 1: What do you guys think of Dennis? Isn't he right?
Speaker 6: He's great, He's great, He's I really enjoyed talking to him.
Speaker 1: What did you learn?
Speaker 6: Well, I learned that apparently you have to be prepared.
Speaker 6: I was like, what, Like, I never thought that. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 6: I guess I've always been caught off guard, and so
Speaker 6: that was basically for me, like the most striking thing
Speaker 6: to listen to was that that you need to be prepared.
Speaker 1: At first, he didn't agree with that, you know, and.
Speaker 3: I still kind of don't because that's not have the
Speaker 3: way that I've lived in my life.
Speaker 6: I hear you, and then some people will say, well,
Speaker 6: how has it worked out for you? Right?
Speaker 3: I have like some friends to say, Okay, well how's
Speaker 3: it worked out for you? But you know, I do
Speaker 3: everything from my.
Speaker 6: Heart and I know no, I would feel bad as
Speaker 6: a person if if I were to do something like that.
Speaker 3: You know, however, the type of person that I like
Speaker 3: to sit down and I like to help the conversation.
Speaker 6: If you're my friend, if you're my lover, if you're
Speaker 6: sure whatever you are.
Speaker 1: That's ideal. That's ideal. But intellectually, do you understand it?
Speaker 3: Oh, one hundred percent. Yeah.
Speaker 6: You have to be prepared for everything in life, you know, right,
Speaker 6: So that's the most important thing that I took.
Speaker 3: So ladies, prepare.
Speaker 1: I am for my next failed marriage. I'm kidding.
Speaker 3: Stop stop saying that, Cheryl. I'm not gonna lot Cheryl
Speaker 3: say that anymore.
Speaker 1: Hey, it's all good. I can joke because I'm not
Speaker 1: even dating. We're good, Okay, this.
Speaker 5: Podcast we're talking about divorce.
Speaker 4: But I really, my my biggest takeaway from this entire
Speaker 4: moment obviously just like being able to like talk and
Speaker 4: hear the stories. I love that so much. Just brings
Speaker 4: me like so much peace, But just kind of like
Speaker 4: the thought of you know what it is that, what
Speaker 4: does that?
Speaker 5: What are those next steps after you get divorced? Like
Speaker 5: I think that's most.
Speaker 3: It's like who wants to get married again?
Speaker 7: Right?
Speaker 5: Wanting?
Speaker 4: It's like it's you know, it's like one, it's like
Speaker 4: kind of like when you're in the divorce. What he
Speaker 4: was what Dennis was saying is that people are asking questions,
Speaker 4: are coming to see him. There's a lot of energy
Speaker 4: that's into the contract. But the minute that contract is
Speaker 4: over and those phone calls are over and the conversations
Speaker 4: are over, and the fighting is over on both sides.
Speaker 5: Like where do people? What do people do? What are
Speaker 5: the next steps?
Speaker 1: I think it's sitting in the uncomfterble feelings. It's feeling
Speaker 1: the feelings, but feeling them in a way where you
Speaker 1: have to understand in general. God, I wish I could
Speaker 1: take my own advice, but like, this is what I'm
Speaker 1: going to be. This is my goal for twenty twenty
Speaker 1: five is to be able to not because I'm addicted
Speaker 1: to productivity now, Kelly, you know that, but like so
Speaker 1: so with that comes me numbing. That's my new numbing device.
Speaker 1: So it used to be people, it used to be alcohol,
Speaker 1: and I'm so bur so. Now what do I do
Speaker 1: to numb and not have to sit in my shit?
Speaker 3: Is work?
Speaker 1: I just work. My to do list is so long,
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna have to because I don't want to
Speaker 1: one die early or to check myself into the nearest
Speaker 1: mental institution. I have to feel my feelings and knowing
Speaker 1: that feelings come and go like the waves of the ocean.
Speaker 1: Literally is what is going to help me get through it.
Speaker 1: And I think the sooner you feel, the sooner I
Speaker 1: won't be held in your body. And God knows what
Speaker 1: that causes as far as diseases go, or sickness or whatever.
Speaker 1: But like, it is so important to just wherever safe
Speaker 1: space you feel like, and it may not include other people.
Speaker 1: This is why I ghosted myself literally from everybody when
Speaker 1: I moved out of LA because I know that I
Speaker 1: can't feel with other people are surrounding me, let alone
Speaker 1: feel alone? Right, Like, so how am I ever going
Speaker 1: to feel if I don't really force that?
Speaker 4: And you know, it's interesting that you said that, because
Speaker 4: that's something that's been happening to me and before or
Speaker 4: if I was ever in a situation that was uncomfortable.
Speaker 5: Whether it was work related or life related, I would just.
Speaker 4: Push those feelings down. And now I'm just very open
Speaker 4: to everything.
Speaker 5: And because we've been.
Speaker 4: Having these conversations now for you know, for the last
Speaker 4: couple of months, and you know, I'll be with clients
Speaker 4: and I can feel like getting overwhelmed, Like it's like
Speaker 4: I can feel that I'm going to start to cry.
Speaker 5: And I don't know why.
Speaker 1: Oh that's great, but I'm actually it's great. That's good. No,
Speaker 1: it's good.
Speaker 5: I'm actually okay with it.
Speaker 1: I'm like, and you don't need to know why. Who cares?
Speaker 5: And I don't know why, And I'm just like, I'm
Speaker 5: actually okay with it. And it just feels good. It
Speaker 5: feels good to feel.
Speaker 3: Good and like good to feel good inside.
Speaker 1: You know what's so fascinating. I still stop myself from crying.
Speaker 1: It's like it wasn't it's I have to untrain that
Speaker 1: part of my brain because crying, to me, it's like
Speaker 1: it's the scariest thing when I'm not present with it,
Speaker 1: meaning like it's not scary obviously, I know that in
Speaker 1: my brain. But I've always stopped myself from crying. It's
Speaker 1: it's interesting, It's okay.
Speaker 3: Sometimes it's good just to let it out. It's okay.
Speaker 6: I mean we all have different like outlets, you know,
Speaker 6: we all deal with things differently.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like to just be a sarcastic bitch, but
Speaker 1: I don't know that's my version that.
Speaker 5: The warmest human.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I totally related to you, Kelly. When
Speaker 1: You're like, people think I'm so confident in this hard
Speaker 1: I've got the wall of China. Now if you could
Speaker 1: break my brick wall of China that we're then you're
Speaker 1: you deserve self, you deserve the time together because it
Speaker 1: is a defense mechanism for me. But I get it,
Speaker 1: like I get approached by people who are like so intimidated,
Speaker 1: like by who like you? Who are you talking to?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 1: But I do have a resting bitch face, so that helps.
Speaker 4: Oh you do not that is not smiling and you're
Speaker 4: always like you're just a warm human.
Speaker 5: I think that's how I see you.
Speaker 1: Thank you, and same with you, by the way, thank you.
Speaker 1: It's just you know, they're not ready for us. That's why, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we need to own our space and take up the space.
Speaker 6: I feel like, just meant today, they just they don't
Speaker 6: want they don't want to They don't have a commitment,
Speaker 6: you know, they just don't want the commitment. Yeah, and
Speaker 6: you know, and if you're committed to yourself, like and
Speaker 6: being better and just you know, growing and getting stronger
Speaker 6: and you know you're doing things that are gratifying to you,
Speaker 6: it's like you really don't eat men anymore. I mean really,
Speaker 6: it's like if you I.
Speaker 4: Don't want to get to the point why I don't
Speaker 4: eat men anymore because you know, like.
Speaker 6: Well, me neither, I mean none, That's what I'm saying,
Speaker 6: me neither. But I'm just saying that society.
Speaker 3: Can look at it, look at look at your Instagram feed,
Speaker 3: everything is about you.
Speaker 6: How are women and self care and said love and like,
Speaker 6: so that's what I was saying.
Speaker 3: So it's like it's really hard.
Speaker 4: Actually, I have an amazing twin brother, I had an
Speaker 4: unbelievable father, Like, I have a lot of admiration. So
Speaker 4: I don't why I want to feel like I'm alone
Speaker 4: on an island anymore because I've been on my own island,
Speaker 4: Alexia for so long, like I literally have been like
Speaker 4: it's it's it's I'm done. I don't want to do
Speaker 4: that anymore. I want to feel good, I said, Like
Speaker 4: I saying I want to continue feeling good about feeling
Speaker 4: good and I and I want to be open to
Speaker 4: that right person who's there and whether he sees me
Speaker 4: walking across the street because I'm smiling because I'm actually
Speaker 4: like just genuinely happy or wherever or however.
Speaker 5: But you know, I do feel like it's an energy thing.
Speaker 3: I know that sounds like so like no, no, but
Speaker 3: it's true. Good energy trucks.
Speaker 1: What do you wait, what do you mean? You're done
Speaker 1: being on an island?
Speaker 5: I'm done with me.
Speaker 1: I don't say that out loud, because then you're tracking
Speaker 1: attract You're attracting desperation. Don't do that. You're not alone,
Speaker 1: You're not done.
Speaker 4: No, I know, but I'm saying that I put myself
Speaker 4: on that island, just like you were saying that you
Speaker 4: go everybody like me on an island?
Speaker 1: No, me too. You live in New York. So should
Speaker 1: we try and like rie fifty to fifty? Yeah, I know,
Speaker 1: but like I'm also alone in ghosting people, and I'm
Speaker 1: ready for human connection. But this is the problem I'm
Speaker 1: picky now with Like before it was just more bodies,
Speaker 1: more bodies, more bodies, Like I feel like the friends.
Speaker 6: The more time you're by yourself, you get piggier. And
Speaker 6: that's like I feel like a lot of my friends
Speaker 6: has happened too. They're so selective, you know, and they're
Speaker 6: so good with like managing their time and what they want.
Speaker 3: You don't even realize it.
Speaker 6: Like for you, you know, it's been two or three
Speaker 6: years whatever, and you're so good with yourself.
Speaker 3: And you don't need that. But when you're not there,
Speaker 3: like I'm not there.
Speaker 6: I don't know that I ever will be there because
Speaker 6: I for me, people are important, like I have a
Speaker 6: lot of people in my life, and you know, I
Speaker 6: have friends and and you know I'm you know, young
Speaker 6: and old. It's just for me, it's it's part of
Speaker 6: my life. I don't care here you could ever be
Speaker 6: in that island by myself, Like, honestly, I can't.
Speaker 1: Well, it's just it's a choice. It's a choice, right
Speaker 1: like and by way to each their own. Absolutely, there's
Speaker 1: so many different ways. Holly, Let's have a zoom friendship. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm so down for that. I have my own Zoom account.
Speaker 3: I love you girls. A week on you too. I
Speaker 3: really love talking to both of you. You can call
Speaker 3: me whenever you want. We'll keep in touch. Yes, please
Speaker 3: tell I feel we all help. Yes, I will do that.
Speaker 1: And if you see, if there's any hot dudes, you know,
Speaker 1: holler girls.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know in Miami it's really hard to
Speaker 3: find men here.
Speaker 6: Really, but oh my god, everybody, Well there's hot people here,
Speaker 6: but I mean it's so fake and transitional.
Speaker 3: The correct transition. It's like, I.
Speaker 6: Don't know that you can find there's like twenty five
Speaker 6: women for each guy, and they're all for the same guy.
Speaker 3: It's really girls. The guys here are so entitled and in.
Speaker 1: La by the way, mm hmmm. You know what this
Speaker 1: whole world. I wish I was a lesbian, but I
Speaker 1: don't like girls.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 3: Oh, that's that's what it is.
Speaker 6: I'm surprised there's not for lesbians, honestly, after having these
Speaker 6: conversations about men.
Speaker 3: Surprising.
Speaker 1: I mean, I love girls, but you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: I've tried. It just doesn't know doesn't tickle my pickle.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: How about you, Kelly? This is another episode?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's another episode.
Speaker 4: I just again, like I just really, I know that
Speaker 4: I'm going to have this amazing love story.
Speaker 5: I do.
Speaker 3: I know we're gonna be there with you, Kelly.
Speaker 1: We're going to write a book about it and it's gonna.
Speaker 3: You know, I love that you believe I love Kelly.
Speaker 3: So why And that's why, Like I could go through
Speaker 3: all you.
Speaker 6: Know, people would be like, oh my god, but aren't
Speaker 6: you like because other women will will will be that way.
Speaker 6: It will be like why are how are you still
Speaker 6: open to love? Because you know what, and I always will.
Speaker 6: Nobody's going to take that away from me.
Speaker 1: Good for you.
Speaker 3: Love. I'm in love with love. I loved overrated.
Speaker 1: Just kidding, I know.
Speaker 6: I mean they're different, right, No, I know, but I
Speaker 6: get what you say, you know, but with love, he's
Speaker 6: pain awesome, you know, you know, with joy comes sadness.
Speaker 6: How do you know sadness if you don't know joy?
Speaker 6: So it's very complicated.
Speaker 1: You're right, But it's about my fear. It's my fear
Speaker 1: is so so high as far as like wanting not
Speaker 1: wanting to get hurt again, that I.
Speaker 6: Am protecting you, and of course, yeah you damn it.
Speaker 3: Girls, we love you. You're going to be just fine.
Speaker 1: Oh thank you. It's so good to see you after
Speaker 1: it's been over a decade. So good to see you.
Speaker 3: Happy here to see you.
Speaker 4: We wish you all like the healthiest and happiest holiday
Speaker 4: and good feelings and good vibes.
Speaker 1: And I'll see you on your island. I'm going to
Speaker 1: come to your island, Miami, and hell yeah, I love Miami.
Speaker 1: Bye girls, Happy holidays, holidays. I just love talking to
Speaker 1: these women, Alexia and Kelly. They're such just strong independent
Speaker 1: women who have gone through divorce. And it just makes
Speaker 1: me feel like I'm not alone. But do you guys
Speaker 1: have any questions about divorce maybe or are you looking
Speaker 1: for advice now that your relationship or marriage is over.
Speaker 1: Make sure to call us or email us, and follow
Speaker 1: us on all social platforms and the information will be
Speaker 1: in the show notes, so make sure to rate and
Speaker 1: review the podcast. I Do Part Two is an iHeartRadio
Speaker 1: podcast where falling in love is the main objective.