1 00:00:04,078 --> 00:00:06,558 Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of I 2 00:00:06,718 --> 00:00:16,078 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to another episode of the Book 3 00:00:16,078 --> 00:00:19,238 Speaker 1: of Joe podcast. Of course it's the same name as 4 00:00:19,398 --> 00:00:22,038 Speaker 1: the book, the actual book, The Book of Joe, written 5 00:00:22,078 --> 00:00:26,638 Speaker 1: by me, Tom Verducci of Fox Sports, MLB Network and 6 00:00:26,718 --> 00:00:30,318 Speaker 1: Sports Illustrated, and of course Joe Madden, three time Major 7 00:00:30,398 --> 00:00:32,438 Speaker 1: League Manager of the Year. How are you doing, Joe? 8 00:00:32,958 --> 00:00:35,278 Speaker 1: I'm doing great. How about yourself, buddy? Got a little 9 00:00:35,278 --> 00:00:38,518 Speaker 1: wet down there right here? Yeah? How about that trip 10 00:00:38,718 --> 00:00:41,998 Speaker 1: postseason trip to Dodger Stadium and Petco Park and I 11 00:00:42,078 --> 00:00:45,078 Speaker 1: got rained on in both places. But you know what, 12 00:00:45,758 --> 00:00:48,678 Speaker 1: that's the way this postseason has gone, Joe. I mean, 13 00:00:48,718 --> 00:00:53,598 Speaker 1: we're talking about Dodgers went home, Braves went home, Mets 14 00:00:53,758 --> 00:00:55,998 Speaker 1: went home. All these teams winning more than a hundred 15 00:00:56,038 --> 00:00:59,638 Speaker 1: games are now watching the postseason. So let me start there, 16 00:00:59,758 --> 00:01:02,598 Speaker 1: because obviously, you were one of the teams in the 17 00:01:02,678 --> 00:01:05,798 Speaker 1: last twenty one years that won a championship and did 18 00:01:05,878 --> 00:01:09,558 Speaker 1: not repeat. The Braves are the latest. I mean, do 19 00:01:09,638 --> 00:01:13,078 Speaker 1: you see anything any pattern here, Joe? Why it is 20 00:01:13,238 --> 00:01:16,598 Speaker 1: more difficult to repeat as a World Series champion than 21 00:01:16,638 --> 00:01:19,118 Speaker 1: it's ever been since the World Series began there's so 22 00:01:19,118 --> 00:01:22,038 Speaker 1: many hurdles. There's so many hurdles. When the World Series began, 23 00:01:22,238 --> 00:01:24,198 Speaker 1: I mean it was a national leg in America League. 24 00:01:24,198 --> 00:01:26,038 Speaker 1: You win your league and you go play seven games 25 00:01:26,038 --> 00:01:28,718 Speaker 1: and go home. Um, just even the thought of it, 26 00:01:28,798 --> 00:01:30,438 Speaker 1: if you have to go through the wild Card round 27 00:01:30,518 --> 00:01:33,638 Speaker 1: then to the DSCS and of course the World Series. 28 00:01:34,198 --> 00:01:37,358 Speaker 1: I don't think people process that well enough. It's it's hard, 29 00:01:37,558 --> 00:01:41,438 Speaker 1: it's it's mentally difficult. It's physically difficult. Forty games in 30 00:01:41,438 --> 00:01:43,518 Speaker 1: spring training, one sixty two, and then you've got to 31 00:01:43,558 --> 00:01:46,638 Speaker 1: go ahead and compete again. Um, you know, when you're 32 00:01:46,678 --> 00:01:48,918 Speaker 1: not really feeling the greatest, more than likely there's probably 33 00:01:48,958 --> 00:01:51,518 Speaker 1: a lot of bumps and bruises. Uh, there's the mental 34 00:01:51,558 --> 00:01:53,918 Speaker 1: component to it. And again, like I've talked to you about, 35 00:01:53,918 --> 00:01:56,838 Speaker 1: see what first time eyes feel, the first time passion, 36 00:01:56,918 --> 00:01:59,318 Speaker 1: all these things play into it. And I think it's 37 00:01:59,438 --> 00:02:02,238 Speaker 1: a bad assumption to think that it's kind of like 38 00:02:02,318 --> 00:02:04,278 Speaker 1: because you've been good the year before, your should be 39 00:02:04,278 --> 00:02:06,518 Speaker 1: favored to do it again. I almost think that, like 40 00:02:06,718 --> 00:02:09,878 Speaker 1: like it's indicating that's put you on the on the 41 00:02:09,918 --> 00:02:13,278 Speaker 1: list of probably not going to repeat again. Um, it's 42 00:02:13,318 --> 00:02:17,398 Speaker 1: just not easy and last point. Please realize, folks, that 43 00:02:17,518 --> 00:02:20,398 Speaker 1: the other team were professionals also, and I think we 44 00:02:20,518 --> 00:02:22,918 Speaker 1: underestimate or we don't give enough credit to the group 45 00:02:22,958 --> 00:02:26,678 Speaker 1: that's ascending to so all these things could conspire to 46 00:02:26,758 --> 00:02:29,478 Speaker 1: make it difficult to repeat. Yeah, I mean, listen, you 47 00:02:29,518 --> 00:02:32,078 Speaker 1: know as well as anybody, the margin of victory is 48 00:02:32,198 --> 00:02:35,678 Speaker 1: so small, But that also means the narrow of defeat. 49 00:02:35,958 --> 00:02:38,158 Speaker 1: The margin of defeat is so narrow as well. I 50 00:02:38,198 --> 00:02:40,398 Speaker 1: think about the home run hobby bias. It's in the 51 00:02:40,438 --> 00:02:45,038 Speaker 1: basket to beat Johnny Quato, to survive the sixteen n 52 00:02:45,158 --> 00:02:47,718 Speaker 1: l DS for the Cubs. And you think about Max 53 00:02:47,758 --> 00:02:49,958 Speaker 1: Freed starting Game one for the Braves. He's, you know, 54 00:02:50,398 --> 00:02:52,878 Speaker 1: battling the flu a little bit, just wasn't the same 55 00:02:52,958 --> 00:02:55,438 Speaker 1: kind of picture that he had been just wasn't feeling great. 56 00:02:56,038 --> 00:02:59,038 Speaker 1: These things happen in the postseason. Yeah, I mean, there's 57 00:02:59,078 --> 00:03:01,078 Speaker 1: a there's another layer to this that it's hard to 58 00:03:01,118 --> 00:03:03,478 Speaker 1: describe it and it is feel And I know I 59 00:03:03,518 --> 00:03:06,598 Speaker 1: get to be scoffed at by those but um that 60 00:03:06,598 --> 00:03:09,038 Speaker 1: those don't understand, but it's true. I mean there's a 61 00:03:09,078 --> 00:03:11,518 Speaker 1: certain vibe that that's attached to a club that's been 62 00:03:11,518 --> 00:03:14,038 Speaker 1: doing well, look at the Phillies right now. Uh and 63 00:03:14,038 --> 00:03:15,998 Speaker 1: and and the and the vibe they got going on, 64 00:03:16,078 --> 00:03:19,438 Speaker 1: and the Padres too. They both they're writing a high. 65 00:03:19,478 --> 00:03:21,798 Speaker 1: You know, they both won very difficult series to get 66 00:03:21,958 --> 00:03:24,598 Speaker 1: that next round, and it had a lot to do 67 00:03:24,638 --> 00:03:28,158 Speaker 1: with their success um and and the potential for upcoming success. 68 00:03:28,518 --> 00:03:30,758 Speaker 1: They believe in themselves, their confidences up and I also 69 00:03:30,758 --> 00:03:33,438 Speaker 1: believe I haven't mentioned this yet, but when you bang 70 00:03:33,478 --> 00:03:35,998 Speaker 1: bang bang to get to the playoffs, and it's really difficult, 71 00:03:35,998 --> 00:03:37,678 Speaker 1: and it's and I know this happened to the two 72 00:03:37,678 --> 00:03:40,398 Speaker 1: thousand and two Angels. Man, we have not done it before. 73 00:03:40,518 --> 00:03:43,318 Speaker 1: So you get to that, to the to the door 74 00:03:43,398 --> 00:03:45,918 Speaker 1: there and even just a clinch to clinch to get 75 00:03:45,998 --> 00:03:49,158 Speaker 1: into it. It's really that, to me, is probably the 76 00:03:49,158 --> 00:03:51,838 Speaker 1: most pressurized moment, just to get there if you haven't 77 00:03:51,838 --> 00:03:53,998 Speaker 1: done it before, meaning the playoffs, and then what you 78 00:03:53,998 --> 00:03:56,998 Speaker 1: get in the playoffs, you're almost able to chill just 79 00:03:57,038 --> 00:03:59,878 Speaker 1: a little bit relaxed. We kindly, we finally got there. 80 00:04:00,478 --> 00:04:02,878 Speaker 1: And it's it's hard to evaluate what that means to 81 00:04:03,478 --> 00:04:05,358 Speaker 1: other than the fact that I think it's a positive. 82 00:04:05,678 --> 00:04:08,158 Speaker 1: So you get to relax. We finally got there. We're 83 00:04:08,238 --> 00:04:10,678 Speaker 1: in we're in the door now, which could we could 84 00:04:10,678 --> 00:04:13,078 Speaker 1: just kind of relax and play. I think you saw 85 00:04:13,118 --> 00:04:14,718 Speaker 1: that with the Phillies. I think you saw that with 86 00:04:14,798 --> 00:04:18,558 Speaker 1: the the Padres too, So it's kind of interesting. Um, 87 00:04:18,838 --> 00:04:21,478 Speaker 1: the how difficult it is to get there is one thing, 88 00:04:21,518 --> 00:04:24,158 Speaker 1: and maybe you look like you're pressing towards the end 89 00:04:24,198 --> 00:04:27,318 Speaker 1: of the season. Here comes the playoffs. Different group. Yeah, 90 00:04:27,478 --> 00:04:29,878 Speaker 1: really good points. And that brings me to the other 91 00:04:29,918 --> 00:04:33,158 Speaker 1: side of the coin, which is the Dodgers. Okay, I 92 00:04:33,198 --> 00:04:36,398 Speaker 1: think the Dodgers have to really re evaluate how they 93 00:04:36,438 --> 00:04:39,518 Speaker 1: go about playing these postseason games. You know, it's very 94 00:04:39,878 --> 00:04:42,438 Speaker 1: standard procedure for them to get their starting pitcher out 95 00:04:42,438 --> 00:04:45,198 Speaker 1: of there as quickly as possible. Essentially third time around. 96 00:04:45,278 --> 00:04:48,078 Speaker 1: We saw that with Tyler Anderson pitching a really good 97 00:04:48,078 --> 00:04:51,758 Speaker 1: game in Game four of the n LDS, he's out, 98 00:04:51,838 --> 00:04:55,318 Speaker 1: the bullpen carousel starts again. They did this every single game. 99 00:04:55,358 --> 00:04:58,438 Speaker 1: On the other side, you've got Bob Melvine with the Padres, 100 00:04:58,478 --> 00:05:03,118 Speaker 1: where he allowed his three starting pitchers Darvish Snell must 101 00:05:03,118 --> 00:05:05,878 Speaker 1: grove to pitch to the top of the Dodger lineup, 102 00:05:05,878 --> 00:05:07,918 Speaker 1: and that's not an ordinary top of the Dodger lineup. 103 00:05:07,958 --> 00:05:11,038 Speaker 1: You're talking about Bets Turner Freeman. He allowed them to 104 00:05:11,038 --> 00:05:13,718 Speaker 1: pitch to the top of the lineup every game that 105 00:05:13,838 --> 00:05:16,718 Speaker 1: they won Games two, three, and four. And now if 106 00:05:16,758 --> 00:05:18,878 Speaker 1: you go back and you look at the innings pitch 107 00:05:18,958 --> 00:05:23,158 Speaker 1: by starting starting pitchers this year, well, of the five 108 00:05:23,198 --> 00:05:25,838 Speaker 1: and the top six, all of them are in the 109 00:05:25,878 --> 00:05:30,038 Speaker 1: final five. In terms of still standing in the playoffs structure. 110 00:05:30,598 --> 00:05:35,518 Speaker 1: You know Astro's Guardians, Yankees, Padres, Phillies, They're all there 111 00:05:36,158 --> 00:05:40,358 Speaker 1: because they don't go to that bullpen every night early. 112 00:05:41,038 --> 00:05:44,078 Speaker 1: So Jody would believe that that had a lot to 113 00:05:44,118 --> 00:05:46,598 Speaker 1: do with how the Dodgers went out. I mean, maybe 114 00:05:46,598 --> 00:05:50,158 Speaker 1: they just went to that carousel too quickly, too early. Well, yeah, 115 00:05:50,238 --> 00:05:52,518 Speaker 1: I over the course of a hundred sixty two games, 116 00:05:52,558 --> 00:05:56,598 Speaker 1: I understand the process, I think to a certain extent. 117 00:05:56,678 --> 00:05:59,078 Speaker 1: But I I talked to you about before. I'm into trends, 118 00:05:59,118 --> 00:06:01,438 Speaker 1: and the trend is the playoffs. It's different. It's just 119 00:06:01,558 --> 00:06:03,438 Speaker 1: different in the playoffs, and you can't rely on the 120 00:06:03,518 --> 00:06:07,718 Speaker 1: large sample size all the time. So yeah, I think 121 00:06:07,758 --> 00:06:11,878 Speaker 1: maybe moving forward they may reevaluate it. Again, I'm not 122 00:06:11,998 --> 00:06:14,518 Speaker 1: smart enough to know that if my picture is pitching, well, 123 00:06:14,558 --> 00:06:17,198 Speaker 1: it's time to take him out. Um, if I'm watching 124 00:06:17,198 --> 00:06:19,198 Speaker 1: this stuff is good. You watch the reaction of the 125 00:06:19,278 --> 00:06:22,758 Speaker 1: hitter at that particular moment um. You can see late 126 00:06:22,918 --> 00:06:25,118 Speaker 1: on on fast way, you can see break a ball 127 00:06:25,158 --> 00:06:28,318 Speaker 1: is actually getting better command confidence. When he comes in 128 00:06:28,758 --> 00:06:31,118 Speaker 1: after the inning, when he comes into the dugout, you 129 00:06:31,158 --> 00:06:32,878 Speaker 1: can see how he walks in. You can watch him 130 00:06:32,878 --> 00:06:35,518 Speaker 1: sitting there. There's different things you're gonna look at other 131 00:06:35,558 --> 00:06:37,798 Speaker 1: than just a pitch count number or the inning that 132 00:06:37,838 --> 00:06:41,398 Speaker 1: we're in. Um, all this stuff should matter. It does matter, 133 00:06:42,158 --> 00:06:45,118 Speaker 1: and some groups like to be more sterile. UM. And 134 00:06:45,158 --> 00:06:47,638 Speaker 1: with that, and when you're making decisions just based on 135 00:06:47,758 --> 00:06:52,118 Speaker 1: those numbers, I understand from your perspective, whoever it's doing it, 136 00:06:52,118 --> 00:06:56,278 Speaker 1: it's somewhat easier and it's more definable and it doesn't 137 00:06:56,278 --> 00:07:00,118 Speaker 1: require feel, experience, wisdom, whatever, because it's hard to evaluate 138 00:07:00,158 --> 00:07:02,918 Speaker 1: those kind of things. But I appreciate what Dusty does 139 00:07:02,958 --> 00:07:07,038 Speaker 1: and I appreciate with bow Mill has done. Now listen, 140 00:07:07,078 --> 00:07:09,678 Speaker 1: I think David has done a wonderful job. I'm a 141 00:07:09,718 --> 00:07:12,238 Speaker 1: big fan of Dave Roberts also, But it's just again, 142 00:07:12,398 --> 00:07:16,718 Speaker 1: organizational philosophies are different. Yeah, how about this matchups here 143 00:07:16,718 --> 00:07:20,998 Speaker 1: in the NLCS of Managers. You've got Rob Thompson, baseball lifer, right, 144 00:07:20,998 --> 00:07:22,958 Speaker 1: I think he's been the game about thirty seven years. 145 00:07:22,958 --> 00:07:25,318 Speaker 1: Gets his first opportunity to be a big league manager 146 00:07:25,398 --> 00:07:28,358 Speaker 1: this year when the Phillies fired Joe Girardi after a 147 00:07:28,398 --> 00:07:31,478 Speaker 1: two and twenty nine start. You mentioned Bob Melvin. He's 148 00:07:31,478 --> 00:07:33,318 Speaker 1: been around a long time. I've always thought he's done 149 00:07:33,358 --> 00:07:36,598 Speaker 1: a great job with bullpen usage. He actually has managed 150 00:07:36,598 --> 00:07:39,478 Speaker 1: the fourth most number of games of anybody who has 151 00:07:39,598 --> 00:07:42,638 Speaker 1: not one a pennant, and now he's four wins away 152 00:07:42,678 --> 00:07:45,918 Speaker 1: from getting there. Uh, Joe, as someone who took a 153 00:07:45,918 --> 00:07:48,278 Speaker 1: long time to get your first big league job, and 154 00:07:48,318 --> 00:07:50,158 Speaker 1: we talked about this a lot in the book. You 155 00:07:50,198 --> 00:07:51,878 Speaker 1: were ready for it at that age, at the age 156 00:07:51,878 --> 00:07:54,558 Speaker 1: of fifty two, and the struggle to get there was 157 00:07:54,638 --> 00:07:57,918 Speaker 1: part of the really the charm of being in the game. 158 00:07:58,598 --> 00:08:00,638 Speaker 1: But how about those two guys sitting there. What you 159 00:08:00,638 --> 00:08:02,958 Speaker 1: feel for those two guys getting their first chance to 160 00:08:03,118 --> 00:08:05,438 Speaker 1: go to a world Aries couldn't be happy? Or First 161 00:08:05,438 --> 00:08:07,238 Speaker 1: of all, I'm happy for Robbie that he got that 162 00:08:07,318 --> 00:08:10,838 Speaker 1: job and they made it officially. Absolutely deserves the opportunity. 163 00:08:11,318 --> 00:08:13,238 Speaker 1: I was very pleased that it worked out that way 164 00:08:13,278 --> 00:08:15,558 Speaker 1: for him. I don't know Robbie well just to say 165 00:08:15,638 --> 00:08:19,118 Speaker 1: hi and h conversation, but I've watched them work with 166 00:08:19,158 --> 00:08:22,598 Speaker 1: the Yankees. I know the respect that his players the 167 00:08:22,638 --> 00:08:25,278 Speaker 1: teammates have for him and other coaches in the game. 168 00:08:25,318 --> 00:08:27,558 Speaker 1: So it could not be happier for the man and boat. 169 00:08:27,598 --> 00:08:31,078 Speaker 1: Mel and I have always communicated. I think he does 170 00:08:31,118 --> 00:08:33,318 Speaker 1: a great job. Actually, I think I told Hendrow at 171 00:08:33,318 --> 00:08:35,318 Speaker 1: one Thomas and when you fire me, you should hire 172 00:08:35,598 --> 00:08:38,678 Speaker 1: Bob Melvin. I think I told him that specifically. I 173 00:08:38,718 --> 00:08:42,158 Speaker 1: like the way he goes about his business. Um, yeah, 174 00:08:42,238 --> 00:08:44,478 Speaker 1: he's on top of things, there's no question about it. 175 00:08:44,958 --> 00:08:47,398 Speaker 1: When it comes to bullpen usage. I think I know 176 00:08:47,518 --> 00:08:50,798 Speaker 1: he communicates and relates well with his group, so I'm 177 00:08:50,838 --> 00:08:53,598 Speaker 1: a big fan of his. Also, at both these guys, 178 00:08:54,358 --> 00:08:56,478 Speaker 1: you wish them nothing but the best, And you're right, 179 00:08:56,518 --> 00:08:59,758 Speaker 1: I mean you wait, Um, Bobby didn't have to wait 180 00:08:59,798 --> 00:09:03,038 Speaker 1: as long as I did or Robbie has. But when 181 00:09:03,038 --> 00:09:07,198 Speaker 1: you wait that long, you should feel um convicted and 182 00:09:07,238 --> 00:09:08,678 Speaker 1: what you believe in what you want to say to 183 00:09:08,718 --> 00:09:11,518 Speaker 1: your guys. There's no real gray areas left and you're 184 00:09:11,558 --> 00:09:13,918 Speaker 1: not searching. You've You've done these kind of things before. 185 00:09:13,958 --> 00:09:16,118 Speaker 1: Maybe not on the major league level, but you have 186 00:09:16,198 --> 00:09:19,158 Speaker 1: the experience of doing them before. I love that. By 187 00:09:19,238 --> 00:09:21,478 Speaker 1: the way, quick story on Rob Thompson. Of course, he 188 00:09:21,598 --> 00:09:24,398 Speaker 1: was with the Yankees for many years. He would run 189 00:09:24,438 --> 00:09:27,438 Speaker 1: their spring trainings every year. Um and he was really 190 00:09:27,478 --> 00:09:30,798 Speaker 1: influenced by George Steinbrenner when it comes to attention to detail. 191 00:09:30,838 --> 00:09:34,918 Speaker 1: And he told a great story that uh, Steinbrenner would 192 00:09:34,958 --> 00:09:37,478 Speaker 1: take him to Tampa Bay Lightning games and you pick 193 00:09:37,558 --> 00:09:39,678 Speaker 1: him up at the minor league complex. And every time 194 00:09:39,678 --> 00:09:42,238 Speaker 1: that George would pick him up, he as he's driving 195 00:09:42,238 --> 00:09:45,158 Speaker 1: out of the parking lot, he would notice certain cars 196 00:09:45,198 --> 00:09:48,478 Speaker 1: that were backed into their spots and he would always 197 00:09:48,478 --> 00:09:51,438 Speaker 1: ask Rob Thompson, whose car is that? Whose car is that? 198 00:09:52,278 --> 00:09:54,438 Speaker 1: And Rob said, why do you want to know? You 199 00:09:54,478 --> 00:09:56,678 Speaker 1: know whose car that is? He said, because the guys 200 00:09:56,718 --> 00:09:59,398 Speaker 1: who back into their spots are the ones who are 201 00:09:59,438 --> 00:10:01,838 Speaker 1: not hurried to get out of work. Unless sure, I 202 00:10:01,838 --> 00:10:04,798 Speaker 1: want those kind of guys working for me. He didn't 203 00:10:04,798 --> 00:10:12,438 Speaker 1: miss the thing the boss, Hey, when we get back. 204 00:10:12,758 --> 00:10:15,438 Speaker 1: Once I saw this play happened, I knew I had 205 00:10:15,518 --> 00:10:18,478 Speaker 1: to ask Joe Madden about it. I can't believe it 206 00:10:18,518 --> 00:10:19,998 Speaker 1: goes on in the major leagues, and I want to 207 00:10:20,038 --> 00:10:21,678 Speaker 1: get his take on it. You'll want to hear this 208 00:10:21,838 --> 00:10:34,718 Speaker 1: when we get back to the Book of Joe. Welcome 209 00:10:34,718 --> 00:10:37,078 Speaker 1: back to the Book of Joe podcast with Tom Berducci 210 00:10:37,238 --> 00:10:40,398 Speaker 1: and Joe Madden and Joe. The play that I referenced earlier, 211 00:10:41,238 --> 00:10:44,278 Speaker 1: it reminds me of Little League first and third, where 212 00:10:44,278 --> 00:10:47,318 Speaker 1: the runner in this case, it was Juan Sotos literally 213 00:10:47,598 --> 00:10:51,118 Speaker 1: dancing into second base without a play being made on him. Now, 214 00:10:51,198 --> 00:10:54,118 Speaker 1: I get it. It's first and third, there's two strikes 215 00:10:54,118 --> 00:10:56,998 Speaker 1: on the battery, there's two outs to go. Ahead run 216 00:10:57,078 --> 00:11:00,358 Speaker 1: is at third base. You don't want a middle infield 217 00:11:00,398 --> 00:11:03,758 Speaker 1: to vacate his position, open up a hole on the groundball, 218 00:11:03,918 --> 00:11:06,958 Speaker 1: and you lose the game because you're defending the runner 219 00:11:07,038 --> 00:11:09,238 Speaker 1: at first and allowing the run around third to score. 220 00:11:09,598 --> 00:11:11,878 Speaker 1: I get it, but it's the big leagues. There has 221 00:11:11,918 --> 00:11:14,358 Speaker 1: to be a way to defend that play without giving 222 00:11:14,398 --> 00:11:17,358 Speaker 1: up that base so freely. And that base, by the way, 223 00:11:17,518 --> 00:11:20,318 Speaker 1: was huge because it became a two run lead for 224 00:11:20,358 --> 00:11:22,678 Speaker 1: that San Diego bullpen rather than a one run game. 225 00:11:22,758 --> 00:11:26,598 Speaker 1: And it was game over with Juan Soto being allowed 226 00:11:26,878 --> 00:11:30,038 Speaker 1: and I mean allowed to take second base and I 227 00:11:30,118 --> 00:11:31,598 Speaker 1: went back and I asked some of the people with 228 00:11:31,638 --> 00:11:34,958 Speaker 1: the Padres. It turns out the Dodgers did not defend 229 00:11:34,998 --> 00:11:38,878 Speaker 1: that play the entire season, so the Padres had free 230 00:11:38,958 --> 00:11:41,678 Speaker 1: reign to run Soto knowing that there's not even a 231 00:11:41,758 --> 00:11:44,598 Speaker 1: chance they're going to put on a play. Now, if 232 00:11:44,638 --> 00:11:46,678 Speaker 1: you were on a play, a defensive play against that 233 00:11:46,718 --> 00:11:49,238 Speaker 1: play at all during the season, at least you create 234 00:11:49,318 --> 00:11:52,558 Speaker 1: some doubt in your mind on the Padres side, and 235 00:11:52,638 --> 00:11:55,478 Speaker 1: maybe Soto doesn't run, or at least you think about it. 236 00:11:56,038 --> 00:11:58,318 Speaker 1: But to me, Joe should never happen in the big 237 00:11:58,438 --> 00:12:01,118 Speaker 1: leagues where there's a hundred percent chance of anything, And 238 00:12:01,118 --> 00:12:04,758 Speaker 1: this was a hud that the second can't run was 239 00:12:04,798 --> 00:12:08,638 Speaker 1: going to move up for free into scoring position. So 240 00:12:08,958 --> 00:12:11,278 Speaker 1: I want to hear your take about this well. In 241 00:12:11,558 --> 00:12:13,638 Speaker 1: spring training, I do this all the time we go 242 00:12:13,718 --> 00:12:17,958 Speaker 1: through that particular play, and easy concept is early in 243 00:12:17,958 --> 00:12:19,678 Speaker 1: the game, Early in the game, you're trying to stay 244 00:12:19,678 --> 00:12:23,238 Speaker 1: out of a big inning, that first and third situation. Um, yes, 245 00:12:23,358 --> 00:12:25,638 Speaker 1: you go ahead and your throw through you try to 246 00:12:25,638 --> 00:12:27,598 Speaker 1: get an out. I'll take down at second base and 247 00:12:27,718 --> 00:12:30,718 Speaker 1: even give them a run under those circumstances to avoid 248 00:12:30,718 --> 00:12:34,318 Speaker 1: a beginning so that's uh, that's the exactly how we 249 00:12:34,358 --> 00:12:37,278 Speaker 1: describe it during camp. And UM, so we have a 250 00:12:37,278 --> 00:12:40,398 Speaker 1: specific play design for that we're gonna throw through as 251 00:12:40,398 --> 00:12:43,198 Speaker 1: opposed to maybe arm fake to to third or just 252 00:12:43,278 --> 00:12:46,278 Speaker 1: holding onto the ball completely. There's other plays that have 253 00:12:46,358 --> 00:12:48,558 Speaker 1: been done in the past, but it's really been reduced 254 00:12:48,598 --> 00:12:52,518 Speaker 1: to those two specific things are simple things. The other 255 00:12:52,558 --> 00:12:56,038 Speaker 1: one is the latter part of the game. One of 256 00:12:56,038 --> 00:12:59,358 Speaker 1: the things, UM, I really want them to be able 257 00:12:59,398 --> 00:13:01,798 Speaker 1: to do under those circumstances is earned the run from 258 00:13:01,838 --> 00:13:04,438 Speaker 1: third base, earn it by half. They hit the ball, 259 00:13:04,478 --> 00:13:05,718 Speaker 1: they have to put it in play. They got to 260 00:13:05,718 --> 00:13:09,718 Speaker 1: move the baseball, as opposed to have the understop trying 261 00:13:09,718 --> 00:13:11,918 Speaker 1: to steal the run that way, possibly a bad throw 262 00:13:11,958 --> 00:13:15,038 Speaker 1: by the catcher. Again, who's who's the hitter, who's the 263 00:13:15,118 --> 00:13:17,598 Speaker 1: runner at first? How quick is the picture to the plate. 264 00:13:17,718 --> 00:13:20,078 Speaker 1: All these things are a factor in this particular moment. 265 00:13:20,198 --> 00:13:22,878 Speaker 1: So for me, I'm more than likely not thrown through, 266 00:13:22,918 --> 00:13:24,798 Speaker 1: even though and I agree with you that you do 267 00:13:24,878 --> 00:13:29,238 Speaker 1: know and I've had I've been in this position where, um, 268 00:13:29,278 --> 00:13:30,958 Speaker 1: even though we're not gonna throw I know now that 269 00:13:30,998 --> 00:13:32,678 Speaker 1: winning run is going to get the second base and 270 00:13:32,678 --> 00:13:36,158 Speaker 1: that's that bothers me. It bothers me. But that's a 271 00:13:36,278 --> 00:13:37,998 Speaker 1: chance you may have to take, or you do may 272 00:13:38,078 --> 00:13:40,878 Speaker 1: you may take, uh in order to not have them 273 00:13:40,918 --> 00:13:43,558 Speaker 1: square that other run by not even having to move 274 00:13:43,598 --> 00:13:46,798 Speaker 1: the baseball. So there's different ways of looking at it. 275 00:13:46,838 --> 00:13:51,478 Speaker 1: I think that's what we saw right there. I um, 276 00:13:51,558 --> 00:13:55,918 Speaker 1: I don't even know if I saw all last year, uh, 277 00:13:56,038 --> 00:13:57,998 Speaker 1: when you did throw through, when we did throw through 278 00:13:58,078 --> 00:14:00,438 Speaker 1: the last couple of years, that there was even attempt 279 00:14:00,878 --> 00:14:02,958 Speaker 1: to try to steal home plate on the throw through 280 00:14:02,958 --> 00:14:05,238 Speaker 1: the second base. There's the other things you can do 281 00:14:05,278 --> 00:14:08,558 Speaker 1: with the run right third bluffs so that the second basement, 282 00:14:08,558 --> 00:14:12,918 Speaker 1: shure stuff come into ensure the fact that the runners 283 00:14:12,918 --> 00:14:16,758 Speaker 1: steal second base. So it's a long convoluted answer. Early 284 00:14:16,758 --> 00:14:19,238 Speaker 1: in the game, I'm throwing through the latter part of 285 00:14:19,278 --> 00:14:21,358 Speaker 1: the game, but it's a one run lead, I may 286 00:14:21,478 --> 00:14:23,398 Speaker 1: choose to not throw too because they want them to 287 00:14:23,398 --> 00:14:25,918 Speaker 1: earn the run. Yeah, it's it's all as you said, 288 00:14:25,958 --> 00:14:27,998 Speaker 1: there are many variables to it. But I can tell 289 00:14:27,998 --> 00:14:30,478 Speaker 1: anybody who's going to be watching the NLCS if that 290 00:14:30,558 --> 00:14:34,158 Speaker 1: situation occurs with the Phillies they're throwing through. I talked 291 00:14:34,158 --> 00:14:37,238 Speaker 1: to j t real motto about this. He's like me, 292 00:14:37,438 --> 00:14:39,638 Speaker 1: he doesn't think you should allow free bases in the 293 00:14:39,678 --> 00:14:42,238 Speaker 1: major leagues. He said, we're essentially playing a game of 294 00:14:42,278 --> 00:14:44,598 Speaker 1: catch between me and the middle infielder. You tell me 295 00:14:44,718 --> 00:14:48,358 Speaker 1: we can't execute two throws before that runner comes in. Now, 296 00:14:48,358 --> 00:14:51,518 Speaker 1: you do take a risk. I get that, um. But 297 00:14:51,558 --> 00:14:54,318 Speaker 1: as they run the play, they have the second baseman 298 00:14:54,438 --> 00:14:57,918 Speaker 1: usually covering. He comes into the grass or near the grass, 299 00:14:58,838 --> 00:15:01,478 Speaker 1: towards the first base side of second base, so he's 300 00:15:01,478 --> 00:15:04,718 Speaker 1: cutting the distance between first base and the unner well 301 00:15:04,718 --> 00:15:07,038 Speaker 1: obviously keeping an eye on third. So the way the 302 00:15:07,038 --> 00:15:09,598 Speaker 1: Phillies runn it is that's not a free base. I 303 00:15:09,638 --> 00:15:12,118 Speaker 1: think that at least puts doubt in the Padres mind 304 00:15:12,438 --> 00:15:15,678 Speaker 1: that if they're in that situation, they'd be better prepared, 305 00:15:15,838 --> 00:15:18,558 Speaker 1: that the Phillies may defend that runner going to second base. 306 00:15:18,638 --> 00:15:21,358 Speaker 1: That it's not a toll free base. And for me, Joe, 307 00:15:21,398 --> 00:15:23,718 Speaker 1: anything in this game where you create doubt in your opponent, 308 00:15:24,118 --> 00:15:25,958 Speaker 1: I'm all for it. Yeah. The other thing is, I 309 00:15:25,958 --> 00:15:28,758 Speaker 1: mean with that um, the runner at third base has 310 00:15:28,758 --> 00:15:30,918 Speaker 1: to be aggressive, and that's where the other play comes into. 311 00:15:30,918 --> 00:15:32,518 Speaker 1: With the full arm fake throw the third and you've 312 00:15:32,518 --> 00:15:34,238 Speaker 1: got to know you're running a third There's times you 313 00:15:34,238 --> 00:15:37,238 Speaker 1: will designate before a series begin, we're going to go 314 00:15:37,318 --> 00:15:40,718 Speaker 1: after a particular runner because we know sometimes you can 315 00:15:40,758 --> 00:15:44,118 Speaker 1: fall asleep or sometimes he gets overly aggressive. So there's 316 00:15:44,118 --> 00:15:47,478 Speaker 1: so many different ways to evaluate that. And furthermore, real Mudo, 317 00:15:48,118 --> 00:15:49,718 Speaker 1: just by the way he spoke to you, is very 318 00:15:49,718 --> 00:15:53,118 Speaker 1: confident that he can complete that place. Some guys aren't 319 00:15:53,118 --> 00:15:55,678 Speaker 1: as confident. The other thing is, who's the really guy 320 00:15:55,678 --> 00:15:57,398 Speaker 1: who's throwing the ball back to the plate. What does 321 00:15:57,438 --> 00:15:59,998 Speaker 1: his arm look like? And then furthermore, I mean the 322 00:16:00,038 --> 00:16:03,638 Speaker 1: picture's time to the plate. All this stuff matters, um, 323 00:16:03,678 --> 00:16:06,078 Speaker 1: so you have to again it's it's not just one 324 00:16:06,078 --> 00:16:08,958 Speaker 1: size fits all. For me, I would evaluate all these 325 00:16:08,998 --> 00:16:13,158 Speaker 1: things before I decide. But overarching, early in the game, 326 00:16:13,358 --> 00:16:15,998 Speaker 1: we're gonna get out of the beginning ladder part of 327 00:16:15,998 --> 00:16:17,878 Speaker 1: the game. They have to earn the run. Yeah, and 328 00:16:17,918 --> 00:16:20,158 Speaker 1: at the risk of getting a little bit deeper into 329 00:16:20,238 --> 00:16:23,918 Speaker 1: the defensive positioning weeds. I had to bring this up. 330 00:16:23,998 --> 00:16:26,318 Speaker 1: It didn't decide the game, but it was early in 331 00:16:26,318 --> 00:16:29,198 Speaker 1: the game, the deciding game the Padres won. Freddie Freeman 332 00:16:29,278 --> 00:16:31,998 Speaker 1: is batting with Mookie on third base, and trade Turner 333 00:16:32,038 --> 00:16:36,638 Speaker 1: on second. Early in the game scoreless game, the Padres 334 00:16:36,678 --> 00:16:39,478 Speaker 1: have Will Myers the first baseman, playing in on the grass. 335 00:16:39,518 --> 00:16:42,518 Speaker 1: I'm Freddie Freeman. I didn't get that at all. And 336 00:16:42,558 --> 00:16:45,398 Speaker 1: Freddie of course hits the ground ball that if if 337 00:16:45,598 --> 00:16:48,958 Speaker 1: Myers is playing back one run scores instead playing up, 338 00:16:48,998 --> 00:16:51,038 Speaker 1: he can't get to it. It goes buy him for 339 00:16:51,078 --> 00:16:53,998 Speaker 1: a double two run score. I checked with some people 340 00:16:54,038 --> 00:16:56,438 Speaker 1: with the Padres and there was a lot of eye rolling. 341 00:16:56,518 --> 00:16:59,558 Speaker 1: They realized that that was a mistake. That was just 342 00:16:59,718 --> 00:17:04,118 Speaker 1: not good defensive positioning that early in the game. There's 343 00:17:04,118 --> 00:17:06,798 Speaker 1: there's no other way to look at it. Will as 344 00:17:06,878 --> 00:17:10,238 Speaker 1: a first baseman, uh in the latter part of his career, 345 00:17:10,318 --> 00:17:12,718 Speaker 1: right out of love Will, but there's times I'm sure 346 00:17:12,758 --> 00:17:15,278 Speaker 1: that he really does need to be directed that that, 347 00:17:15,398 --> 00:17:18,118 Speaker 1: to me is definitely on the player, but it's also 348 00:17:18,358 --> 00:17:21,398 Speaker 1: that's got to come from the bench to somebody specifically 349 00:17:21,438 --> 00:17:25,518 Speaker 1: in charge of positioning for infield defense per per batter, 350 00:17:25,598 --> 00:17:27,678 Speaker 1: and I was in charge of that at some point. 351 00:17:27,998 --> 00:17:30,198 Speaker 1: It's tedious, man, You've got to stay on top of it. 352 00:17:30,238 --> 00:17:32,678 Speaker 1: You can't fall asleep, you can't start watching the ball. 353 00:17:33,078 --> 00:17:35,918 Speaker 1: What happens sometimes you start watching the baseball, and when 354 00:17:35,918 --> 00:17:39,678 Speaker 1: you're coaching, you cannot follow the ball. You're watching anything 355 00:17:39,718 --> 00:17:42,478 Speaker 1: but the ball. When when the when that moment occurs 356 00:17:42,478 --> 00:17:44,998 Speaker 1: when the pitch is being thrown. So I would as 357 00:17:45,038 --> 00:17:47,518 Speaker 1: a hitting coach, I'd never watched the ball as a 358 00:17:47,798 --> 00:17:50,438 Speaker 1: if I'm as a catching coach, I'm not watching the 359 00:17:50,478 --> 00:17:53,558 Speaker 1: ball in field instructor, I gotta get to my defenders 360 00:17:53,598 --> 00:17:56,238 Speaker 1: before the ball is thrown. So you can't watch the ball. 361 00:17:56,278 --> 00:17:59,038 Speaker 1: You gotta watch everything else. And finally, one more on 362 00:17:59,158 --> 00:18:02,558 Speaker 1: defensive positioning. This involves something and you're Bailey Wick as 363 00:18:02,558 --> 00:18:06,678 Speaker 1: you like to say, catching. Okay, the Padres are they're 364 00:18:06,718 --> 00:18:10,478 Speaker 1: big on not using the one knee stance behind the plate. 365 00:18:10,678 --> 00:18:13,838 Speaker 1: Francisco Savelli it was hired this year as they're catching instructor. 366 00:18:13,958 --> 00:18:18,478 Speaker 1: He told Aaron Nola Austin Nola, Rather, you're not doing 367 00:18:18,518 --> 00:18:20,638 Speaker 1: it anymore. He tried it last year. Nola did. It 368 00:18:20,678 --> 00:18:24,198 Speaker 1: didn't work well. He had some leg injuries, Uh, severely. 369 00:18:24,438 --> 00:18:27,758 Speaker 1: Big proponent of using the old school way behind a disk. Joe, 370 00:18:27,758 --> 00:18:30,398 Speaker 1: there's been a lot of debate about catching your You 371 00:18:30,478 --> 00:18:33,598 Speaker 1: have such a history with instructing and playing the position. 372 00:18:34,198 --> 00:18:36,878 Speaker 1: What's your take on the one knee stands. We see 373 00:18:36,878 --> 00:18:39,718 Speaker 1: a lot of teams use I don't like it, um 374 00:18:39,918 --> 00:18:45,038 Speaker 1: i Uh. As a catcher, um I would always instruct 375 00:18:45,078 --> 00:18:47,638 Speaker 1: my catcher as you can go to one knee with 376 00:18:47,718 --> 00:18:49,998 Speaker 1: less than two strikes and nobody on base. That was 377 00:18:50,038 --> 00:18:52,118 Speaker 1: always the thing because if you just needed a rest, 378 00:18:52,598 --> 00:18:54,678 Speaker 1: it was more from a rest perspective, not being up 379 00:18:54,718 --> 00:18:57,078 Speaker 1: on your in your stance all the time. So with 380 00:18:57,158 --> 00:18:59,318 Speaker 1: less than two strikes, it doesn't have to ball block 381 00:18:59,398 --> 00:19:01,158 Speaker 1: the ball, and with nobody on base, you don't have 382 00:19:01,198 --> 00:19:03,438 Speaker 1: to block the ball. Go ahead and chill. Remember Tony 383 00:19:03,478 --> 00:19:06,398 Speaker 1: Painia used to literally sit on his butt uh to 384 00:19:06,438 --> 00:19:08,318 Speaker 1: get a ball down in the strikes one. And sometimes 385 00:19:08,318 --> 00:19:10,918 Speaker 1: that's another reason. If a picture just can't get the 386 00:19:10,958 --> 00:19:14,198 Speaker 1: ball down, I would ask my guys to sit or 387 00:19:14,358 --> 00:19:16,598 Speaker 1: get to one knee like that just to force him 388 00:19:17,038 --> 00:19:19,758 Speaker 1: down in the strike zone. Now I'm gonna defend this 389 00:19:19,838 --> 00:19:22,598 Speaker 1: too in a sense, because I've seen guys block pitches 390 00:19:22,718 --> 00:19:24,238 Speaker 1: that are starting on one knee that I didn't think 391 00:19:24,278 --> 00:19:27,558 Speaker 1: they can do. I really didn't. I I was baffled, 392 00:19:27,598 --> 00:19:31,318 Speaker 1: and I'm impressed by the technique that's evolved for the 393 00:19:31,358 --> 00:19:33,878 Speaker 1: group that has learned how to catch off of one knee. 394 00:19:34,358 --> 00:19:37,998 Speaker 1: So I thought that wouldn't happen. It has happened. I'll 395 00:19:38,038 --> 00:19:40,758 Speaker 1: defend that. The part that I think is difficult, the 396 00:19:40,798 --> 00:19:43,198 Speaker 1: bad habit occurs from throwing. When you get to one 397 00:19:43,278 --> 00:19:47,038 Speaker 1: knee with a runner on base, sometimes you can it 398 00:19:47,118 --> 00:19:49,638 Speaker 1: can become more problematic to just receive the ball and 399 00:19:49,718 --> 00:19:52,438 Speaker 1: throw it um your your footwork can get screwed up 400 00:19:52,518 --> 00:19:55,798 Speaker 1: unless the pitch is in a perfect spot. So, uh, 401 00:19:55,958 --> 00:19:58,758 Speaker 1: last point too, And nobody's talking about this. I can't 402 00:19:58,798 --> 00:20:00,678 Speaker 1: believe the Empires will let them get away with it. 403 00:20:00,958 --> 00:20:03,798 Speaker 1: This this framing component, where where the where the glo 404 00:20:04,038 --> 00:20:06,758 Speaker 1: is moving so much before And I'm watching the look 405 00:20:06,838 --> 00:20:08,558 Speaker 1: some of the games on team and you see guys 406 00:20:08,638 --> 00:20:11,038 Speaker 1: pull balls that I knew back in the day, you'd 407 00:20:11,078 --> 00:20:14,198 Speaker 1: never get that call. I would prefer umpires and say, hey, listen, 408 00:20:14,478 --> 00:20:17,838 Speaker 1: stop pulling pitches. You're not getting anything. Now you're gonna 409 00:20:17,918 --> 00:20:20,198 Speaker 1: You're gonna hear from the the fact that these guys 410 00:20:20,238 --> 00:20:23,518 Speaker 1: are so scrutinized with an obvious box painted on the 411 00:20:23,558 --> 00:20:26,078 Speaker 1: television screen. But if I'm an umpire, I would tell 412 00:20:26,158 --> 00:20:28,718 Speaker 1: guys stop pulling that, stop pulling those pitches on me. 413 00:20:28,798 --> 00:20:30,758 Speaker 1: Man you're not going to get them. And I used 414 00:20:30,798 --> 00:20:32,598 Speaker 1: to be a part of the conversation back then when 415 00:20:32,638 --> 00:20:35,278 Speaker 1: this wasn't a scrutinize. If they thought you were pulling 416 00:20:35,718 --> 00:20:39,878 Speaker 1: framing uh too much, too obviously, then you would get 417 00:20:39,918 --> 00:20:44,998 Speaker 1: reprimanded by the umpire. So um, I prefer tried and true. Absolutely, 418 00:20:45,038 --> 00:20:47,958 Speaker 1: I'm okay with one knee less than two strikes nobody 419 00:20:47,958 --> 00:20:49,998 Speaker 1: on base to catch a break or to get the 420 00:20:50,038 --> 00:20:52,558 Speaker 1: ball down in the strike zone. They're doing it right now. 421 00:20:52,598 --> 00:20:54,358 Speaker 1: For the elephant kind of thing where they're trying to 422 00:20:54,478 --> 00:20:56,638 Speaker 1: they move the gloves so much prior to the pitch 423 00:20:56,718 --> 00:20:59,758 Speaker 1: being thrown that it's easier to do that from one 424 00:20:59,838 --> 00:21:02,878 Speaker 1: knee way that that that that glove hand, the receiving 425 00:21:02,918 --> 00:21:06,358 Speaker 1: hand can move more really based on that particular stance 426 00:21:06,398 --> 00:21:08,838 Speaker 1: as a post to a more conventional stance. It's all 427 00:21:08,878 --> 00:21:12,438 Speaker 1: tied together. I preferred the traditional, but there are times 428 00:21:12,678 --> 00:21:15,198 Speaker 1: I'm okay with one ny good stuff. Joe. Hey, when 429 00:21:15,238 --> 00:21:17,878 Speaker 1: we get back with the Book of Joe podcast, I 430 00:21:17,878 --> 00:21:20,238 Speaker 1: want to ask Joe about what it's like actually being 431 00:21:20,278 --> 00:21:23,118 Speaker 1: in the dugout for a postseason game when, as he said, 432 00:21:23,678 --> 00:21:25,798 Speaker 1: he said this in our book, it's kind of like 433 00:21:25,838 --> 00:21:28,838 Speaker 1: the Starship Enterprise taken off. The speed of the game 434 00:21:28,958 --> 00:21:31,638 Speaker 1: down there in the dugout, especially in the postseason, Well, 435 00:21:31,678 --> 00:21:33,838 Speaker 1: it's a lot faster than you might think. We'll dive 436 00:21:33,878 --> 00:21:43,678 Speaker 1: into that next Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast, 437 00:21:43,758 --> 00:21:46,678 Speaker 1: And I mentioned Joe the speed of the game. We 438 00:21:46,718 --> 00:21:49,718 Speaker 1: talked about the speed of the game, maybe velocity pitchers, foot, 439 00:21:49,758 --> 00:21:52,318 Speaker 1: speed runners, ball coming off the bat. But how about 440 00:21:52,358 --> 00:21:57,358 Speaker 1: for a manager, did you feel that running postseason games, Um, 441 00:21:57,398 --> 00:21:59,918 Speaker 1: that the game was a little bit different given everything 442 00:21:59,958 --> 00:22:02,438 Speaker 1: at stake and some of these crowds, especially when you're 443 00:22:02,438 --> 00:22:04,478 Speaker 1: on the road. Yeah, you just well you have to 444 00:22:04,518 --> 00:22:07,398 Speaker 1: be on top of it even more. Um, you know, 445 00:22:07,438 --> 00:22:09,878 Speaker 1: you have to make maybe decisions then that you wouldn't 446 00:22:09,878 --> 00:22:12,318 Speaker 1: normally make during the season. You'll be more tolerant or 447 00:22:12,318 --> 00:22:15,158 Speaker 1: patient during the season, where the playoffs you're less tolerant, 448 00:22:15,518 --> 00:22:19,678 Speaker 1: less patient. Um. Yeah, it's when you're sitting up at 449 00:22:19,678 --> 00:22:23,078 Speaker 1: that bird's eye level looking down, everything appears to be 450 00:22:23,158 --> 00:22:26,638 Speaker 1: so slow, but it is, like we talked about, it 451 00:22:26,678 --> 00:22:28,518 Speaker 1: is like when the Starship takes off and you get 452 00:22:28,518 --> 00:22:31,198 Speaker 1: that blur in its wake, beause it moves away. In 453 00:22:31,238 --> 00:22:35,078 Speaker 1: the the old star Trek show, it's like that, and 454 00:22:35,158 --> 00:22:37,238 Speaker 1: so for me, that's why you got to play the 455 00:22:37,278 --> 00:22:40,158 Speaker 1: game before the game. That's for me. When you've never 456 00:22:40,198 --> 00:22:41,798 Speaker 1: done it before you're asked to do it, I don't 457 00:22:41,798 --> 00:22:43,878 Speaker 1: get it. I mean, I've needed all these years of 458 00:22:43,918 --> 00:22:47,158 Speaker 1: experience in order to process and slow the game down 459 00:22:47,518 --> 00:22:51,118 Speaker 1: in those moments regular season. Then it gets even more 460 00:22:51,158 --> 00:22:54,038 Speaker 1: magnified in the postseason. But it comes down to your 461 00:22:54,078 --> 00:22:57,158 Speaker 1: process and again, your preparation for me before the game 462 00:22:57,198 --> 00:23:00,518 Speaker 1: permits me to slow the game down in game. I'll 463 00:23:00,518 --> 00:23:02,198 Speaker 1: tell you when it gets crazy is in a National 464 00:23:02,278 --> 00:23:05,478 Speaker 1: league game, uh, in a National a playoff game, when 465 00:23:05,518 --> 00:23:07,278 Speaker 1: you really have to keep an eye in your picture 466 00:23:07,678 --> 00:23:10,078 Speaker 1: as you're trying to move things around. To the point 467 00:23:10,078 --> 00:23:12,678 Speaker 1: the time with I brought Chapman and I can't remember 468 00:23:12,678 --> 00:23:15,518 Speaker 1: the game against the Dodgers what number it was, but 469 00:23:15,638 --> 00:23:17,958 Speaker 1: I brought him in early, and I counted the hitters 470 00:23:17,958 --> 00:23:20,038 Speaker 1: through and he's going to be eight up the next inning. 471 00:23:20,078 --> 00:23:22,078 Speaker 1: So I thought he gets through this intem he could 472 00:23:22,118 --> 00:23:24,438 Speaker 1: use him the next inning also, But here it comes 473 00:23:24,438 --> 00:23:27,478 Speaker 1: a bases loaded, two out situation and here's his that bad. 474 00:23:27,558 --> 00:23:29,678 Speaker 1: I think we were tieder down or up by one run. 475 00:23:29,798 --> 00:23:32,518 Speaker 1: Something like that. Anyway, I had to go to Montero 476 00:23:32,638 --> 00:23:33,878 Speaker 1: and I had to take him out of the game. 477 00:23:33,918 --> 00:23:37,078 Speaker 1: But I've done all my counting. I was right about that. 478 00:23:37,118 --> 00:23:39,238 Speaker 1: But the and he got extended Montero. It's a two 479 00:23:39,238 --> 00:23:42,118 Speaker 1: strike grand Slam for two of us um So the 480 00:23:42,238 --> 00:23:46,278 Speaker 1: National League preparation of the LASH League game under these circumstances, 481 00:23:46,318 --> 00:23:49,038 Speaker 1: to me, it was more difficult than the American League 482 00:23:49,038 --> 00:23:50,718 Speaker 1: game because you don't have to keep it on your 483 00:23:50,758 --> 00:23:54,678 Speaker 1: picture batting. Yes, you always are in advance. You're always 484 00:23:54,758 --> 00:23:57,718 Speaker 1: in advance of every moment, and that's something you have 485 00:23:57,758 --> 00:24:01,438 Speaker 1: to think about before the inning begins. You're thinking about 486 00:24:01,438 --> 00:24:04,198 Speaker 1: the pitfalls. That's interesting to think about the pitfall. Yeah, 487 00:24:04,278 --> 00:24:08,078 Speaker 1: you talked about Montero. If Montero doesn't come through there, 488 00:24:08,558 --> 00:24:11,238 Speaker 1: you're in a tie game and your closers there's no 489 00:24:11,318 --> 00:24:13,598 Speaker 1: more and that's that's just you have to make that 490 00:24:13,678 --> 00:24:16,198 Speaker 1: decision right there. And again, you did to do process 491 00:24:16,278 --> 00:24:18,638 Speaker 1: leading into that moment. You counted it out. It was 492 00:24:18,718 --> 00:24:20,958 Speaker 1: unlikely that he was gonna come up, that anybody did. 493 00:24:21,558 --> 00:24:23,118 Speaker 1: And then there's no way you're gonna let him hit 494 00:24:23,198 --> 00:24:26,238 Speaker 1: right there in a thie game just to um permit 495 00:24:26,318 --> 00:24:28,318 Speaker 1: him to go back out there and pitch. So you 496 00:24:28,438 --> 00:24:31,518 Speaker 1: roll the dice O two breaking ball slider cutter from 497 00:24:31,558 --> 00:24:34,158 Speaker 1: Blunton too, Migan. I'll tell you what, that's one of 498 00:24:34,158 --> 00:24:37,878 Speaker 1: the loudest home runs I've heard in that ballpark. Yeah, 499 00:24:37,918 --> 00:24:40,878 Speaker 1: that was amazing. And speaking of loud, the seventh inning 500 00:24:40,878 --> 00:24:43,758 Speaker 1: at Petco Park in Game four in the NLDS was 501 00:24:43,918 --> 00:24:46,718 Speaker 1: crazy loud. Let me tell you, But I want to 502 00:24:46,958 --> 00:24:49,398 Speaker 1: go to where it started, Joe. It was a leadoff 503 00:24:49,398 --> 00:24:52,558 Speaker 1: walk with a three nothing lead, Tommy Kinley on the 504 00:24:52,598 --> 00:24:55,078 Speaker 1: mound for the Dodgers. I don't know about you, but 505 00:24:55,158 --> 00:24:58,798 Speaker 1: I feel like watching these postseason games that a leadoff 506 00:24:59,118 --> 00:25:02,558 Speaker 1: walk it doesn't start a rally. It is a rally. 507 00:25:02,798 --> 00:25:06,358 Speaker 1: It's it just seems to ben incredible momentum changer. It 508 00:25:06,398 --> 00:25:10,198 Speaker 1: feels like in these postseason games, you give a team 509 00:25:10,238 --> 00:25:13,438 Speaker 1: a base, it's gonna come back and bite you. So, 510 00:25:14,198 --> 00:25:16,558 Speaker 1: you know, do you feel sometimes that you do have 511 00:25:16,638 --> 00:25:18,358 Speaker 1: to be quicker to get a picture out. I know 512 00:25:18,398 --> 00:25:20,318 Speaker 1: there's a three batter minimum roll, so you're not gonna 513 00:25:20,318 --> 00:25:22,118 Speaker 1: take them out after one batter. You can't do it. 514 00:25:22,158 --> 00:25:25,438 Speaker 1: But um, the idea that you have to kind of 515 00:25:25,518 --> 00:25:28,598 Speaker 1: stave momentum as quickly as possible in the postseason game. 516 00:25:28,598 --> 00:25:30,998 Speaker 1: How about that. That's why it's harder to nail it 517 00:25:31,038 --> 00:25:33,318 Speaker 1: down with all these relief pitchers because you have to 518 00:25:33,318 --> 00:25:35,798 Speaker 1: face three hitters. I was talking about that. I think 519 00:25:35,838 --> 00:25:38,358 Speaker 1: we talked about that earlier. This this matchup component the 520 00:25:38,398 --> 00:25:41,758 Speaker 1: latter part of the game. Uh, theoretically back in the day, 521 00:25:41,838 --> 00:25:44,078 Speaker 1: not bad. I mean if I have this nice ing 522 00:25:44,158 --> 00:25:46,758 Speaker 1: and yang rightings and lefties can work with, and you're 523 00:25:46,758 --> 00:25:48,758 Speaker 1: working against the lineup that they're not going to pinch 524 00:25:48,798 --> 00:25:51,198 Speaker 1: it for, and if you know they're gonna pinch it for, 525 00:25:51,278 --> 00:25:53,358 Speaker 1: that's where utilize your reverse split. Guy. I mean, there's 526 00:25:53,438 --> 00:25:57,318 Speaker 1: all these different things that you think about, uh in advance, 527 00:25:57,758 --> 00:26:00,998 Speaker 1: but right now, to nail down that many innings when 528 00:26:00,998 --> 00:26:02,958 Speaker 1: the guy's got to phase three, you gotta have some 529 00:26:03,038 --> 00:26:06,718 Speaker 1: really good relief I think, um, listen, I've had some 530 00:26:06,758 --> 00:26:09,478 Speaker 1: good pens. I've got some good guys. But it's really 531 00:26:09,678 --> 00:26:12,078 Speaker 1: an unnerving thought to think that you have to nail 532 00:26:12,158 --> 00:26:14,798 Speaker 1: down the sixth, seventh, eighth, and ninth on an on 533 00:26:14,838 --> 00:26:17,838 Speaker 1: a continual basis. Where these guys, and again we've talked 534 00:26:17,878 --> 00:26:20,878 Speaker 1: about it, really pictures are health at this impossible standard 535 00:26:20,918 --> 00:26:23,318 Speaker 1: of being perfect having to be perfect all the time. 536 00:26:23,678 --> 00:26:27,078 Speaker 1: So all this stuff in consideration, Man, it's hard to 537 00:26:27,118 --> 00:26:29,478 Speaker 1: match it up. And I agree with you. A walk 538 00:26:29,518 --> 00:26:31,758 Speaker 1: in late in the game, especially in a playoff game, 539 00:26:31,958 --> 00:26:35,198 Speaker 1: is a rally. You're absolutely correct. There's a different mindset 540 00:26:35,398 --> 00:26:37,638 Speaker 1: that it evolves around that as opposed to be hit. 541 00:26:38,318 --> 00:26:40,958 Speaker 1: From the pictures perspective, I lost the plate all of 542 00:26:40,998 --> 00:26:42,998 Speaker 1: a sudden, we got to runder the manager. Everybody starts 543 00:26:42,998 --> 00:26:46,238 Speaker 1: scumming in the dugout and it's felt everywhere. And speaking 544 00:26:46,238 --> 00:26:49,278 Speaker 1: of the Phillies, by the way um they got they 545 00:26:49,318 --> 00:26:51,518 Speaker 1: have a couple of players that you're very familiar with 546 00:26:51,598 --> 00:26:55,638 Speaker 1: managing them, Kylischwarber, Brandon Marsh. I look at this Phillies team. 547 00:26:55,918 --> 00:26:58,398 Speaker 1: I don't know, and just maybe because they're winning five 548 00:26:58,398 --> 00:27:01,838 Speaker 1: postseason games so far, but the mix of players there 549 00:27:01,918 --> 00:27:03,678 Speaker 1: seems to be very good. I think there is a 550 00:27:03,678 --> 00:27:06,998 Speaker 1: little bit of vibe of the Cubs for me with 551 00:27:07,078 --> 00:27:10,718 Speaker 1: this position player group. Um, but give me an insight 552 00:27:10,798 --> 00:27:13,758 Speaker 1: on guys like Schwarber and Marsh and and a fan 553 00:27:13,878 --> 00:27:16,278 Speaker 1: watching them on TV here they can understand a little 554 00:27:16,318 --> 00:27:19,638 Speaker 1: bit more about them other than that they're really good players. Castiano. 555 00:27:19,678 --> 00:27:21,918 Speaker 1: Snicky is another one. I had Nikki to love Nikki. 556 00:27:22,158 --> 00:27:25,438 Speaker 1: Yeah that's right, Yeah, okay, let me just use um 557 00:27:25,958 --> 00:27:29,438 Speaker 1: Schwerber as like the hood ornament here, like the old 558 00:27:29,478 --> 00:27:32,398 Speaker 1: mirk that was sticking out proudly as the car drove 559 00:27:32,438 --> 00:27:36,558 Speaker 1: down the street. He's just fearless. Um, watch him, watch him. Uh, 560 00:27:36,678 --> 00:27:39,678 Speaker 1: he's got a really I want the word is the 561 00:27:39,758 --> 00:27:43,838 Speaker 1: right word? Is not casual, A relaxed nont Uh. There's 562 00:27:43,878 --> 00:27:46,918 Speaker 1: no tension whatsoever in his in his approach, and I 563 00:27:46,958 --> 00:27:48,878 Speaker 1: think that rubs off on the rest of the group, 564 00:27:48,878 --> 00:27:50,198 Speaker 1: even some of the guys that have been there for 565 00:27:50,278 --> 00:27:54,398 Speaker 1: a while. Um. I think that it starts with Schwerbs. Uh. 566 00:27:54,398 --> 00:27:58,518 Speaker 1: I don't know. Marshy Brandon, in spite of his youth, 567 00:27:59,278 --> 00:28:02,238 Speaker 1: is really a present, tense guy. He's able, like he'll 568 00:28:02,278 --> 00:28:04,478 Speaker 1: punch out of punch out, but that's going to bother 569 00:28:04,558 --> 00:28:06,678 Speaker 1: the next step back. If he makes a mistake in 570 00:28:06,718 --> 00:28:08,918 Speaker 1: the field, that's not going to bother the next play. 571 00:28:08,998 --> 00:28:11,558 Speaker 1: He has a fearlessness about his game also that I love. 572 00:28:11,998 --> 00:28:13,958 Speaker 1: And Nikki is one of the most confident players I've 573 00:28:13,958 --> 00:28:16,598 Speaker 1: ever been around. Uh. Nikki would come up to me 574 00:28:16,638 --> 00:28:21,518 Speaker 1: before every game and say happy opening day every day 575 00:28:21,518 --> 00:28:23,558 Speaker 1: he'd come up to me. It never got old. And 576 00:28:23,558 --> 00:28:26,318 Speaker 1: the thing about Nick. If Nick gets hot, which he 577 00:28:26,358 --> 00:28:28,998 Speaker 1: seems to be doing right now, and this he's not 578 00:28:29,078 --> 00:28:31,398 Speaker 1: an analytical movement because he's going after that first pitch 579 00:28:31,398 --> 00:28:32,838 Speaker 1: a lot, and it doesn't have to be a strike. 580 00:28:33,078 --> 00:28:36,358 Speaker 1: He starts missing outfielders. The ball goes line gap gap 581 00:28:36,398 --> 00:28:39,438 Speaker 1: line when he hits it. So you've got three fearless players, 582 00:28:40,238 --> 00:28:42,998 Speaker 1: three guys that I I They don't over analyze it, 583 00:28:43,038 --> 00:28:45,558 Speaker 1: they don't take it too deeply. They do their work. 584 00:28:45,598 --> 00:28:48,678 Speaker 1: They're great workers, but they definitely live in a moment. 585 00:28:48,718 --> 00:28:50,918 Speaker 1: And I think the rest of that group is doing 586 00:28:50,958 --> 00:28:52,958 Speaker 1: the same thing from them. By the way, I'm glad 587 00:28:52,958 --> 00:28:56,518 Speaker 1: you brought up hood ornaments. What happened to hood ornaments? 588 00:28:56,518 --> 00:28:58,478 Speaker 1: And I'm not talking about you know, the Roles of 589 00:28:58,558 --> 00:29:01,678 Speaker 1: Roys is probably the most famous one. He didn't have 590 00:29:01,758 --> 00:29:03,598 Speaker 1: to be a luxury car to have a hood ornament 591 00:29:03,598 --> 00:29:05,878 Speaker 1: back in a day, right, No, my my bell, there's 592 00:29:05,878 --> 00:29:08,198 Speaker 1: got a really groovy looking like jet kind of a 593 00:29:08,278 --> 00:29:11,118 Speaker 1: thing on the front of it. I love that. I mean, 594 00:29:11,238 --> 00:29:13,638 Speaker 1: I've got an old beamer with the old beamer little 595 00:29:14,038 --> 00:29:17,118 Speaker 1: emblem on the I love emblems. I love ornaments on 596 00:29:17,118 --> 00:29:23,038 Speaker 1: on vehicles. I just had my U. S. S pickup 597 00:29:23,078 --> 00:29:25,878 Speaker 1: redone and the guy wanted to know who did a 598 00:29:25,918 --> 00:29:29,198 Speaker 1: great job in Phoenix. Mark wanted to know, Um, do 599 00:29:29,198 --> 00:29:30,958 Speaker 1: you want me to put the emblems back? And I said, 600 00:29:30,958 --> 00:29:33,958 Speaker 1: of course I do. Don't change anything, don't take anything 601 00:29:33,998 --> 00:29:37,038 Speaker 1: off this thing. I think that's the beauty of the car. 602 00:29:37,278 --> 00:29:39,758 Speaker 1: I love all of that. And you're right, but I 603 00:29:39,838 --> 00:29:42,478 Speaker 1: remember the mirk. The mirk had that the dude with 604 00:29:42,518 --> 00:29:45,798 Speaker 1: the helmet with there was that pontiac sticking out probably 605 00:29:47,198 --> 00:29:50,598 Speaker 1: on the on the dude with the helmet. Yeah, yeah, 606 00:29:50,758 --> 00:29:55,598 Speaker 1: right exactly. It was uh yeah, I love that stuff. 607 00:29:55,638 --> 00:29:59,198 Speaker 1: I think cars miss We're missing the boat with our 608 00:29:59,278 --> 00:30:02,558 Speaker 1: vehicles anymore. I really I don't like that. Yeah, even 609 00:30:02,598 --> 00:30:05,598 Speaker 1: those old oldsmobiles. A hood ornament, Well how about the 610 00:30:05,598 --> 00:30:08,078 Speaker 1: grill and I sticking up out of my fifty nine 611 00:30:08,798 --> 00:30:10,998 Speaker 1: El Camino. The grill on that it is just an 612 00:30:10,998 --> 00:30:15,198 Speaker 1: intricate grill, and and it's all this little details, and 613 00:30:15,198 --> 00:30:17,798 Speaker 1: it's it's chrome, which I like. I like chrome over 614 00:30:17,878 --> 00:30:19,798 Speaker 1: plastic any day of the week. I want a real 615 00:30:19,878 --> 00:30:22,638 Speaker 1: bumper that if you you know, five miles and already 616 00:30:22,758 --> 00:30:25,438 Speaker 1: hit something. It just laughs at it, it doesn't crumble. 617 00:30:25,758 --> 00:30:28,318 Speaker 1: I mean, we've gotten away from all the really cool 618 00:30:28,358 --> 00:30:31,278 Speaker 1: things about cars. I love the chrome, I love the 619 00:30:31,318 --> 00:30:35,118 Speaker 1: two tone paint um, I love the the interiors being 620 00:30:35,678 --> 00:30:39,438 Speaker 1: uh different, the herring bone whatever. I miss all that stuff. 621 00:30:39,598 --> 00:30:42,518 Speaker 1: Cool stuff. Well, the next time we talked, Joe, we'll 622 00:30:42,558 --> 00:30:45,878 Speaker 1: talk about a couple of hood ornaments in the NLCS 623 00:30:45,958 --> 00:30:49,038 Speaker 1: Manny Machado and Bryce Harper. How about those two guys 624 00:30:49,598 --> 00:30:51,878 Speaker 1: thirty years old, they were free agents at the same time. 625 00:30:51,918 --> 00:30:54,278 Speaker 1: They both signed with teams that hadn't won in at 626 00:30:54,398 --> 00:30:57,358 Speaker 1: least six years. I'm talking about a winning season Padres 627 00:30:57,398 --> 00:30:59,438 Speaker 1: in their case, I've never won a World Series. Philly 628 00:30:59,478 --> 00:31:01,158 Speaker 1: has been a long time for them, going back to 629 00:31:01,198 --> 00:31:04,318 Speaker 1: oh eight. I can't wait to see those two guys 630 00:31:04,358 --> 00:31:09,038 Speaker 1: match up, Machado and Harper. So, without giving anything away, here, 631 00:31:09,118 --> 00:31:11,958 Speaker 1: is there a team you like in that series? In 632 00:31:12,038 --> 00:31:14,598 Speaker 1: this and I'm I like, I mean, you've met you, 633 00:31:14,718 --> 00:31:17,318 Speaker 1: darbish is pitching and I've still been I've been texting 634 00:31:17,318 --> 00:31:21,158 Speaker 1: with you lately. I love you, Darbish. Um the other side, 635 00:31:21,158 --> 00:31:22,838 Speaker 1: I probably have a little bit more invested on the 636 00:31:22,878 --> 00:31:26,758 Speaker 1: Philly side, including like Bow and all those guys Larry Boa, 637 00:31:27,158 --> 00:31:29,478 Speaker 1: Charlie Manuel, the guys that I really like their Sammy 638 00:31:29,518 --> 00:31:31,838 Speaker 1: Folds the GM that's another guy. So I mean, I 639 00:31:31,878 --> 00:31:35,318 Speaker 1: played that game internally a little bit, but I think 640 00:31:35,358 --> 00:31:37,398 Speaker 1: it's gonna be very entertaining. I do. I've got to 641 00:31:37,998 --> 00:31:40,198 Speaker 1: seeing with first time I was dealing with first time 642 00:31:40,238 --> 00:31:43,558 Speaker 1: passion groups. You're gonna see all odd efforts every night. 643 00:31:43,558 --> 00:31:46,718 Speaker 1: You're gonna see um, some some guys like like what 644 00:31:46,798 --> 00:31:48,878 Speaker 1: Grisham has been doing is not supposed to be doing 645 00:31:48,918 --> 00:31:50,878 Speaker 1: that all of a sudden he gets hot. You're gonna 646 00:31:50,878 --> 00:31:55,398 Speaker 1: see that again. It should be a fascinating series. Both managers, 647 00:31:55,438 --> 00:31:56,958 Speaker 1: I think, are going to manage the game and not 648 00:31:57,038 --> 00:32:00,238 Speaker 1: be overtly influenced by numbers. So I kind of dig 649 00:32:00,278 --> 00:32:02,598 Speaker 1: on that too. I agree with everything you said. I 650 00:32:02,598 --> 00:32:04,358 Speaker 1: think it looks like a seven game series, and I 651 00:32:04,358 --> 00:32:06,638 Speaker 1: love the fact that those venues there. Those people are 652 00:32:06,838 --> 00:32:09,718 Speaker 1: starved to see their teams get to and win a 653 00:32:09,718 --> 00:32:11,958 Speaker 1: World Series. So there's energy in the ballpark from the 654 00:32:12,078 --> 00:32:14,198 Speaker 1: very first pitch to the last. Can't wait for it. 655 00:32:14,318 --> 00:32:16,758 Speaker 1: So next time we talk, we'll have a couple of 656 00:32:16,798 --> 00:32:19,358 Speaker 1: games to talk about. Out of both lcs, is the 657 00:32:19,398 --> 00:32:22,238 Speaker 1: American League and the National League. Joe looking forward to 658 00:32:22,278 --> 00:32:25,318 Speaker 1: the next one. Always a pleasure, my pleasure, Tommy, thank you, 659 00:32:25,678 --> 00:32:28,078 Speaker 1: see you next time on the Book of Joe podcast. 660 00:32:36,638 --> 00:32:38,998 Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of I 661 00:32:39,158 --> 00:32:42,438 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit 662 00:32:42,478 --> 00:32:45,878 Speaker 1: the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 663 00:32:45,918 --> 00:32:46,958 Speaker 1: get your podcasts.