1 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:06,560 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound on 2 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: is there any point in Republicans working with Democrats? How 3 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: long can Russia continue to create pain for innocent Ukrainian civilians? 4 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: And that it seems like Cruden has a lot of patients. 5 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:18,600 Speaker 1: Things could get wild next go around when we're trying 6 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: to keep the government open. Bloomberg Sound on Politics, Policy 7 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 1: and perspective from DC's top name. What's the probably recession? 8 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: I bet the answer is this is going to be 9 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 1: the bane of this administration existence. Politics don't want to win. 10 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: They're all about re election. That's the first thing we 11 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: learned in political science. Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew 12 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:44,199 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. Drop off for bitcoin this year, that 13 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 1: dips settling in after the collapse of ft X, What's 14 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 1: Washington going to do about it? Welcome to the Fastest 15 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: Hour in Politics. I'm Madison Mills in for Joe Matthew. 16 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: Will be joined by Democrat Brad Sherman from California. Straight ahead, 17 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: he was asking questions at that f t X hearing. 18 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: Then we get into the latest on Ukraine and we've 19 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,039 Speaker 1: of course got our panel coming on to talk about 20 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: Congressman George Santos. While Sam Bankman Freed is on house arrest, 21 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,919 Speaker 1: his former customers are suing him. Those customers and authorities 22 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: accusing Bankman Freed of fraudulently raising one point eight billion 23 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: dollars from investors and using those funds to make high 24 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 1: risk bets at his hedge fund, Alameda Research, and a 25 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: little bit to cover some personal expenses too. So what 26 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: is next for crypto regulation as Congress heads back to 27 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: work this week? Joining us to discuss is one of 28 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: those lawmakers heading back to work, Brad Sherman, who had 29 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: one of the most memorable moments this year in Congress. 30 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 1: Let's take a listen. My fear is that we will 31 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: view Sam Bankman Freed as just one big snake in 32 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: a crypto garden of Eden. The fact is crypto is 33 00:01:54,880 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: a garden of snakes. Rep. Representative Brad Sherman, join us now. 34 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: Representative thank you so much for being here. You made 35 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: your views really crystal clear with that quote. But I 36 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: wonder is this a chicken or an egg thing? Could 37 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: regulation have prevented the bad actor here? I think regulation 38 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: could have been somewhat helpful, But ultimately, when you send 39 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: your money to Bahamas or Cayman Islands. It's for the 40 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: purpose of evading US law. I mean, though, you know, 41 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 1: Cayman Islands might have to be a good place to snorkele, 42 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: but if you choose to bank there or the Bahamas, 43 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 1: they're you're you're you're seeking to evade the very laws 44 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: that would on the one hand, and force our our 45 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: tax laws on the other hand. Protect investors. Well, you 46 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: you are really focused on protecting investors of course in 47 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 1: your role with the Financial Services Committee. But some of 48 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: those investors get a little shaky about legislation because every 49 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: time Congress discusses it, they lose is a little bit 50 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 1: more money. The market doesn't like regulation like that. So 51 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: what is your message to the crypto fans on your position? So, uh, look, 52 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: this is an enterprise which will probably sail, but if 53 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: it succeeds in its purpose, its purpose is to create 54 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: a new currency which will disadvantage the average American. It's 55 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: purpose is to have a new currency that competes with 56 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: the dollar by offering one purported advantage. It's right there 57 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: in the name cryptocurrency hidden money. And I don't think 58 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: we need hidden money. I think we need transparent financial transactions. Well, 59 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: it's it's interesting because that you again made your positioning 60 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: very clear, but some of your colleagues on the Hill 61 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: have very different opinions. I interviewed Representative Patrick McHenry on cryptoregulation, 62 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,040 Speaker 1: and here is what he had to say about the 63 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: risks of that regulation. He was taking advantage of uh 64 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: a lack of clarity and regulation. But we have to 65 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: understand the US is that we do have an open 66 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 1: digital border UM, and new products will emerge. And if 67 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: we don't have a regulatory regime and a rule of 68 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 1: law that is enforced around this new technology, UM, we're 69 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,359 Speaker 1: gonna have our our consumers fall victim to the worst 70 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: actors globally and and at the same time not have 71 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: the innovation developed here at home. I want to dig 72 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: into his point on innovation. Does the US miss a 73 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:46,720 Speaker 1: chance to be a world leader by overregulating crypto? We 74 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 1: will lose a chance to be a world leader in 75 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 1: hidden money, which is exactly what cryptocurrency means. We lose 76 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: a chance to help wealthy people evade our tax laws. 77 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: We lose a chance for people like Sam Bankman freed 78 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:08,919 Speaker 1: to evade our bankruptcy courts. We make it easier for 79 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 1: husbands who are planning to leave their wives to hide 80 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 1: moneys from our family courts. This is what innovation is 81 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 1: offering us, and it also offers a chance for people 82 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 1: to bet it. Well, I'm not leaving my wife, I'm 83 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 1: not cheating on my taxes. But I want to bet 84 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: that this becomes such a useful tool that I can 85 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 1: sell it to somebody who does want to use it 86 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: for those purposes and make a profit. Okay, so let's say, 87 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 1: let's say that folks in Washington are are bought in 88 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,719 Speaker 1: on your side here that we do need more regulation. 89 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: I want to point out a scoop from my colleagues 90 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 1: here at Bloomberg finding out that Sam Bankman had at 91 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: least four meetings with senior White House officials this year. 92 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: It was part of his push to influence crypto policy 93 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 1: and build connections in Washington before that collapse of his 94 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: f t X empire. I wonder do you think that 95 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 1: Washington has some work to do to build up credibility 96 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: in the eyes of the public when it comes to 97 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:10,280 Speaker 1: their work regulating crypto. Look, our campaign finance system has 98 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 1: been broken for decades. You've got people like Sam bankman freed, 99 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:19,160 Speaker 1: but other crypto billionaires spreading their money to the lobbyists 100 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: but also to political action committees and super secret political 101 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 1: action committees. Um, And there's nothing on the other side. 102 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: There's no pack here in Washington trying to push people 103 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 1: to enforce our tax laws, or enforce our anti money 104 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: laundering laws, or our laws are sanctions laws, or are 105 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: drug laws. And so you've got uh, crypto ligarchs who 106 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: believe that they can create a useful tool, not just 107 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: for those who want to bet on whether something goes 108 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:58,600 Speaker 1: up or down, but uh, those who will find this 109 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: to be a useful current. See if it ever becomes 110 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: a currency, um innovating our laws. And in fact they 111 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 1: brag about it. They say, why should the dollar be 112 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 1: the reserve currency, Let's displace it. That costs the American families, 113 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: many of the average American family thousands of dollars and benefits. 114 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: Why should the US be able to enforce sanctions laws? 115 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: Rand is a good country too, they should be able 116 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: to to. If you look at the advocates of cryptocurrency, 117 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: it is to disempower the American family, defeat American law, 118 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: and make billions of dollars doing it. That's not a 119 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: good product. Well, I know, I know you're really focused 120 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: on investor protection as part of your work in Congress. 121 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: I wonder to your point, is crypto itself assists a 122 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: symptom of a larger broken banking system. Crypto is is not? 123 00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: There are crypto promises to be a better payment system 124 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,239 Speaker 1: next decade, and I think that we'll have better payment 125 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: systems next decade for US dollars. I mean, Venmo and 126 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: PayPal are just the beginning. And the idea that local 127 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: merchants have to pay three percent on a credit card, 128 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: or that you have to write a paper check to 129 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: get money to UH to a friend or to pay 130 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: a bill that's clearly going away. So then so then 131 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: can you can you get the same end goal that 132 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: crypto lovers talk about so often with you know, transparency, 133 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: the things that we definitely didn't see with f t X. 134 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:41,079 Speaker 1: Can you get those same goals through regulation on traditional banking, 135 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 1: on on traditional American markets. I'm confident that we'll get 136 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: a better payment system. We have an excellent currency um 137 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: the U and one of the things that makes it 138 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 1: excellent is it its subject to the know your customer, 139 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: anti money laundering statutes. If people are able to create 140 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: a real currency that is not that has big gaps 141 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: in the anti money laundering and know your customer statutes, 142 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: they may make billions in many trillions of dollars by 143 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 1: serving the markets for hidden money. That's why they call 144 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: it cryptocurrency, because it aspires to be hidden money. It's 145 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: not hiding money yet. There's nobody within walk You probably 146 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: can't buy a sandwich within walking distance where you're sitting now, uh, 147 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: with a bitcoin unless you convert the bitcoin into dollars first. Uh. 148 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: So it's not a currency yet. You can't buy a 149 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: sandwich with at any practical level. But if it becomes 150 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 1: a currency and and remains crypto, as to say, hidden, 151 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: it will make the needs of those who want to 152 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: hide money. And the big market is the tax evasion market. 153 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: The I R S says the wealthier escaping over a 154 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,559 Speaker 1: trillion dollars a year roughly a trillion dollars a year 155 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: of taxes. That means they're hiding three trillion dollars of 156 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: income every year. I really like this litmus test of yours. 157 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: If you can't buy a sandwich with it, is it 158 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: a real form of currency. Let's look ahead here, tell 159 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 1: me what is going to be number one on the 160 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: Congressional agenda day one, January three, when it comes to crypto. Well, 161 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 1: January three, we're going to be electing a speaker, and 162 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy is going to be relying on the vote. 163 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: I know you're gonna be talking about this George Santos, 164 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: guy who really shouldn't be seated and shouldn't be voting 165 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: for speaker because he is not just led in his 166 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:39,560 Speaker 1: press releases. Many members have been accused of that, but 167 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: he's clearly lied on his financial disclosure report the and 168 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: and and that's a felony. Can we dig into that 169 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: a little bit? You mentioned the financial disclosures. What do 170 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: you think Congress needs to do specifically on on those disclosures. Well, 171 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 1: we have to enforce the laws, both on candidates and members. 172 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:02,319 Speaker 1: And I don't think there's anybody who thinks that, I'm 173 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: looking at his report now that George Santos had between 174 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 1: one and five million dollars in a savings account uh 175 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: where he doesn't need un identify the bank UH, and 176 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 1: where he claims that his devolder organization is worth between 177 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: one and five million dollars um as a practical matter. 178 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:28,319 Speaker 1: When members of Congress file these same reports, they're read 179 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:32,479 Speaker 1: very carefully, and if there's the slightest inconsistency, you're immediately 180 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:35,119 Speaker 1: hauled up and said, hey, you gotta make this consistent. 181 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: Whereas when candidates file, they just put it in the drawer, 182 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: they don't read it at all, and many candidates don't 183 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: even bother to follow the law on file when they're 184 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: supposed to. Do you believe George Santos will have a 185 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: seat in Congress? I think Kevin McCarthy needs his vote, 186 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: so I think he'll do everything possible to have him 187 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: there on the first day. I would suspect and uh 188 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: that what what appears to be blatant and intentionalies on 189 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: the financial disclosure report that, um, he'll be out of 190 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: Congress by the end of next year if he is not. 191 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: If Kevin McCarthy does not protest George Santos because of 192 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:22,199 Speaker 1: like you mentioned, his his own uh needs heading into 193 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 1: next week, are you planning to protest that? I'd want 194 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 1: to work in concert with my colleagues. This aspect of 195 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:38,079 Speaker 1: politics is a team sport, um, so you know you 196 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: will have a leadership will have to decide exactly what 197 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: action we take and when. But I believe that a 198 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: speaker elected UH due to the vote of someone who 199 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 1: has basically admitted UH committing a felony by intentionally lying 200 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: on his financial disclosure report. UH. That's not a vote 201 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: that should count in a speaker's contest. And I know 202 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: we will hopefully be able to have you back to 203 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: talk about how you're reaching consensus with your colleagues, not 204 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 1: just on issues like what's happening with Congressman Santos, but 205 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: also of course with crypto and everything else you're gonna 206 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: be legislating heading into Representative really appreciate your time. Thank 207 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: you so much for coming on and giving us your insights. 208 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:22,840 Speaker 1: We really appreciate it. Let's go now to our panel 209 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:26,439 Speaker 1: to get a little bit more information about not just 210 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: the UH George Santos situation, but also what's going on 211 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 1: with cryptocurrency and specifically what's going on with Sam BigMan 212 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: Freed heading into UM. Rather, UH, let's head to our 213 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 1: panel now. Thank you so much for being here today. Guys, Lester, 214 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: I want to start off with you, can you unpack 215 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 1: a little bit of what you just heard from UM 216 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: Representative Sherman. There on crypto legislation. He has a very 217 00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: clear view that we need more legislation. Do you think 218 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: that his colleagues agree with him? Well, I think he's 219 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: entirely correct on many of his points. The whole Sam 220 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: Bankman Freed story has done great damage to the entire 221 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: crypto industry and and it really puts a spotlight on policymaking. 222 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: Sam Bankman Freed was a huge political campaign donor. He 223 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: gave over seventy million dollars in just a year and 224 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: a half, which is a shocking number. Uh. Clearly a 225 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: lot of members were motivated by that to um uh 226 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: get involved in the policy making game on crypto and 227 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: so I think we're gonna see a lot of scrutiny 228 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: of that. We're gonna see a lot of a lot 229 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: of reporting on where Congress wants to go with this. 230 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 1: It's it's a little bit wild West dish and so 231 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: I wouldn't want to predict exactly what we're going to 232 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: end up, but I think it's the Sam Bankman Freed 233 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: story just completely changes the battle space on the crypto 234 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: policy stuff. And Lester, thank you so much for that. 235 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: Less months and by the way, principal at Government relations 236 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: firm b g R Group and former staff director of 237 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. And also we've got Lincoln 238 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: Mitchell here. He's a political analyst and adjunct Associate Research 239 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: scholar at the Institute of War and Peace Studies at 240 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: Columbia University. Lincoln, tell me what you're thinking about crypto 241 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: regulation heading into do you think we see meaningful moves 242 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: from Congress in this next session on crypto? To some extent, 243 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: I don't expect meaningful legislation from this Congress on anything, 244 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: So it's kind of easy to say to say no 245 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: to that. But clearly, as as Mr Munson suggested, the 246 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: the saga of Sam Bankman Freed has set the crypto 247 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: case back quite a bit, and it is beginning. You know, 248 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: a year ago, it was this kind of magical thing 249 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: that it was somehow gonna solve a problem that to 250 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: some extent didn't exist in the first place. Now it's 251 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: something very, very different. It is something that is being 252 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 1: revealed I think more as yet another kind of scam, 253 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: yet another way to people, as as the Congressman suggested, 254 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: kind of dodge, dodge the authorities and kind of hide 255 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: their money. But I think it's probably wise to get 256 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: ahead of this and begin thinking about regulating it, because 257 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: this is one of those things where you know, uh, 258 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: five years from now, you might play back those comments 259 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: from Congressman Sherman and and it's like those congress people 260 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: you know in the nineties. Uh, I'm not necessarily talking 261 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: about I'm talking about mobile phones in the nineties. I 262 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: think that's exactly what we need to be talking about 263 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: when we have this conversation. Thank you so much for 264 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: chatting with us. We're going to get to you both 265 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: more later on in our show about Congressman George Santos. 266 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 1: Thank you all for listening to Bloomberg. We're gonna be 267 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: back with more news in a bit. This is Bloomberg. 268 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. Sound on on Bloomberg Radio. I'm Mattie 269 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: Mills in for Joe Matthew. Russia reigned scores of missiles 270 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: on Ukrainian cities and one of its heaviest missile attacks 271 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 1: earlier today against Kieva and other areas. So where are 272 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: we at in the war? Angela Stent, a senior fellow 273 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 1: at the Brookings Institution, told David Weston this earlier today. 274 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: This is a grinding war of attrition. I mean, the 275 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: Ukrainians have been making games, They've been taking back territory 276 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:37,159 Speaker 1: that the Russians took, but the Russians have retaliated that 277 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: trying to destroy the infrastructure in Ukraine deprived people of electricity, 278 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 1: of heat, of water. And today this was by far 279 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: the largest bombardment in Kiev and some of the other 280 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 1: cities like Laviv that we've seen in weeks. And that 281 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 1: comes as Ukraine reports more than sixty nine missiles launched 282 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: by Russia. Today. We're joined by Larry Liebert, editor on 283 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: the National Security Team, to discuss Larry, thanks so much 284 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: for being here. I want to pick up on what 285 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 1: Angela said. There is this a war of attrition? Is 286 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: it a stalemate? How would you define it? Well, it 287 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: is literally frozen in place in terms of the ground 288 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 1: war right now because of the winter weather. Uh and 289 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: it's frozen with Russian at a remarkable disadvantage. It wasn't 290 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: supposed to be this way, uh As even Vladimir putinists 291 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: started to admit um. Ukraine has done strikingly well, but 292 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: the battle will continue, especially in spring when there's more 293 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: of a thought it's able to make and troops on 294 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: both sides are able to make more progress in the ground. 295 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 1: In the meantime, Russia is seeking this terrible revenge, trying 296 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: to frighten the population into capitulation with attacks that aren't 297 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: specifically designed to deprive them of heat, electricity, water in 298 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:02,400 Speaker 1: the winter. Buns well, right. And also we know that 299 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:04,959 Speaker 1: Russia might be doing badly on the battlefield, but they 300 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: are using air power to kind of attempt to force 301 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 1: Ukraine into submission, which is exactly what we're seeing today. 302 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:15,199 Speaker 1: How is that working for Russia as a strategy. Well, 303 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: you know President Zelinski uh, and he has a nightly 304 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: addressed every night, and in his latest one he said, 305 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,199 Speaker 1: you know, Uh, they may be attacking us in the 306 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 1: new year, but we'll stand up. He's predicting this is 307 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: going to go on and that the Ukrainians will killue 308 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 1: uh as they so far have Uh to only grow 309 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: in their defiance and their patriotism and their unity. Oh. 310 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,920 Speaker 1: They're probably exceptions, especially in some of the areas where 311 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 1: there are a lot of Russian speakers to the east. Uh. 312 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: The the loyalties are divided, perhaps, but overall this is 313 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: only driven the Ukrainian people into a greater determination to 314 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: hang in there, but it's gonna continue to be a 315 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: very roughly. I want to bring in Lester Munson on 316 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: this from our panel. He's principal of government relations firm 317 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: b GR Group and former staff director of the Senate 318 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,640 Speaker 1: Foreign Relations Committee. Lester, You've spent a lot of your 319 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 1: career after the Senate in foreign policy related experience, so 320 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,439 Speaker 1: I'm really excited to get to ask you about this. 321 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 1: I want to talk about Russia demanding that Ukrainians recognize 322 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: their annexation of four areas in Ukraine, none of which, 323 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: of course, the Russians completely control. What does this tell 324 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 1: us about Putin's motivations here? Well, I think Putin is 325 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:43,199 Speaker 1: trying to change the conversation from Russia losing on the 326 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: battlefield to uh, you know the political comings and goings 327 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: of of the Ukrainian government. That that second message, you 328 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 1: know what the Ukrainians are up to with maybe folks 329 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 1: in their population who speak Russian uh, And that kind 330 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 1: of thing is going to resonate with Russians. Like Putin's 331 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: big problem now is that the Russian people are going 332 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 1: to see him as a loser, Okay are they? I'm 333 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: so glad that you bring this up, because this is 334 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,479 Speaker 1: my big question. I feel like we haven't seen much 335 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: opposition from Russian citizens, and those who we have seen 336 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 1: it from have already left. Am I reading that correctly? Well, 337 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: you know, it's hard to tell, right, It's not like 338 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:29,640 Speaker 1: we're getting a lot of terrific reporting out of Russia 339 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 1: because it's it's such a difficult environment. So it's it's 340 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: really hard to know. But how else can you explain 341 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 1: his behavior. This is a man who does not really 342 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:41,160 Speaker 1: have the consent of the governed in his country. He's 343 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 1: an autocrat, he's a dictator. He's got to he's got 344 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 1: to run, scared from the masses, and he's trying to 345 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,440 Speaker 1: change the conversation from being a loser to being someone 346 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 1: who's very concerned about the behavior of these people's on 347 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 1: Russia's periphery, which is something I might actually resonate with, 348 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 1: you know, the historically kind of beleaguered Russian ethos. Um. 349 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: I'm not saying that's right at all, but that's what 350 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: I think, that's what he's trying to do here. He's 351 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: he's most concerned about those inside Russia who would launch 352 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 1: a coup against him, who would try to replace him 353 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: by by whatever means he's on the run, and I 354 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 1: think we should see it in that light, really helpful context. There, 355 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: let's look beyond the United States and go global, because 356 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: Putin is expected to have another call with Shijan paying tomorrow. 357 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: The US of course hoping that China can be a 358 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: mediator here, Larry jump In, how likely do you think 359 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,879 Speaker 1: that is? How likely is it that come we'll be 360 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 1: talking about China being this great mediator with Russia and Ukraine. 361 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: It's unlikely. I think China feels that its interests included uh, 362 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 1: if you will tomorrow your other guests Phraser as fellow autocrats. Uh. 363 00:22:55,000 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 1: They feel they have made their commitment to Russia, even 364 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 1: though even though they are not going all out in 365 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,400 Speaker 1: embracing Putin's arguments for the war, they are not going 366 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:12,439 Speaker 1: all out in supporting the war effort. They are not 367 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 1: doing anything to directly undercut or challenge him at the 368 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 1: U N or otherwise. And I think that's going to remain. China, 369 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: of course, has talking about the COVID situation. Of course, 370 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: China has its own economic and health problems right now, 371 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: and I don't think they want to stray from that 372 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: to uh get involved in this mess. Yeah, unless are 373 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: we hear a lot of talk about peace talks negotiations. 374 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: What could that look like? I struggle to visualize that 375 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,399 Speaker 1: given where we're at with the war right now. Well, 376 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 1: at least you know, I'm I'm a little bit of 377 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: an apostate. I suppose with national security hardliners. I think 378 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 1: it's good that it's being discussed. Uh, it's an important 379 00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 1: conversation to have. Uh, we're not ready for actual negotiations, 380 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: I think between the two sides. Obviously, Ukraine is taking 381 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,679 Speaker 1: a very hard line on all Russians getting out of 382 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,680 Speaker 1: Ukraine as they should. I think that's the right position 383 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: at the end of the day. Is it's going to 384 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: be something a little more muddled than that, maybe, But 385 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:20,160 Speaker 1: let's let's let the Ukrainians um kind of make that determination. 386 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,200 Speaker 1: And I think is as long as the Biden administration 387 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: and Congress in particular are willing to support Zelenski and 388 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 1: his and his approach, he is he is going to 389 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 1: be able to take that hardline negotiations and prevail. But 390 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: it's going to take a while. Let's bring in Lincoln Mitchell, 391 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,919 Speaker 1: our political analyst and adjunct associate research scholar at the 392 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 1: Institute of War and Peace Studies at Columbia University Lincoln. 393 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,479 Speaker 1: You're a big expert on post Soviet Union block nations 394 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 1: and the inner politics of Ukraine. Talk to me about 395 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: what you're going to be looking at as indicators in 396 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,439 Speaker 1: that this war might be starting to trickle out or 397 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 1: even come to an end. What are you looking to Well, 398 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 1: you know, if were the first time, would say in 399 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: the last few months, a major change here is that 400 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 1: time is now on Ukraine's side, Right, they have a 401 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,919 Speaker 1: better chance in my view, successfully or not. They believe 402 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: they can launch an offense that to take back Crimea. 403 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 1: And right now, that's the sticking point, right because the 404 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: one thing, as we talked about with Putin's increasingly precarious 405 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 1: situation at home, if he loses Crimea, he's done. So 406 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: that's but on the other hand, so he's gonna do 407 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 1: anything you can to hold onto that. On the other hand, 408 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 1: Zolenski has also got himself in a precarious situation in Ukraine, 409 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: which is that if he doesn't retake Crimea, then he 410 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: has to go back to the Ukrainian people and say, essentially, look, 411 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 1: we lost this many civilians, we lost this many people 412 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 1: who have to flee the country. We had this much 413 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,119 Speaker 1: damage done and we're going back to the status quo anti. 414 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: So as far as where I see changing here is 415 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: the US has to say we have to move towards 416 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,199 Speaker 1: negotiations because whereas I agree about the evaluation the role 417 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: China can and cannot play here, you Crane's extraordinary military accomplishments, 418 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: and they are extraordinary only happened because of the support 419 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 1: from the United States and the coalition led by the 420 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:12,640 Speaker 1: United States to put sanctions on oppose Russia. So the question, 421 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,400 Speaker 1: looking from the domestic perspective here is that if that 422 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 1: support begins to waver in the new House of Representatives 423 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,360 Speaker 1: and we just don't know what's going to happen there yet, 424 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 1: specifically about the House, then there's going to have to 425 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: be pressure from the Biden administration to negotiate before we 426 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: lose the advantage there. Okay, let's talk about that in 427 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: our last thirty seconds here, Lincoln, do China and India 428 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: not fear any sort of retribution retribution by the West 429 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: in keeping their relations with Russia? No, No, they don't. India, India, 430 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 1: these countries are both too important the China US relationship 431 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:48,919 Speaker 1: is simply too big to fail at this point, and 432 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: we are not going to put harsh sanctions on China 433 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,439 Speaker 1: because Russia has essentially become a Chinese client. Now, if 434 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: China begins to make any moves towards Taiwan, we're in 435 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: a different world. I love that direct and per quickly 436 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,680 Speaker 1: time to answer on that, Lincoln, thank you so much, 437 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 1: really appreciate it. And we're going to be back with 438 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: our panel in a little bit to discuss that Congressman 439 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: George Santos is fabrications and more. You're listening to Bloomberg 440 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 1: sound On on Bloomberg Radio. I'm Madison Mills in for 441 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 1: Joe Matthew. Congress gets back to work on January third, 442 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: next week. That holiday really did fly by for everybody. 443 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: So what's at the top of their to do list. 444 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:33,439 Speaker 1: Joining us to discuss is US Representative Brendan Doyle from Pennsylvania. Brendan, 445 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,880 Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here. Representative. We're gonna 446 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: get to Congressman George Santos's news, but I want to 447 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: start on your priorities, particularly as part of the House 448 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: Ways and Means Committee. UH that committee voting to release 449 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: Trump's taxes. I gotta wonder, are you concerned at all 450 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:55,880 Speaker 1: about counter investigations Republicans going after Democrats in the same way. 451 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 1: Moving forward, Well, first, it's uh, it's great to be 452 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 1: with you. As a member of the House Ways and 453 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,920 Speaker 1: Means Committee, I did vote to release those tax returns. 454 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,880 Speaker 1: You know, there has been sort of a threat from 455 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 1: the other side that this would create a new precedent. 456 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,120 Speaker 1: That's just not so for two reasons. First, every president 457 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 1: since Nixon has voluntarily released their tax returns every single year, 458 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 1: so Trump was pretty much a unique situation. If Republicans 459 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 1: are threatening to say, release Joe Biden's tax returns, well great, 460 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 1: they're already public. People can check them online. The second 461 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 1: thing is, let's not forget the courts four different times 462 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: found in our favor, including the United States Supreme Court 463 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: just in late November. They found that we had a 464 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 1: legislative purpose in going after these tax returns. And sure enough, 465 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 1: look at what we found. I mean already the two reports, 466 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 1: one of which was the Joint Committee on Taxation, they 467 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: did report on the returns, and they show that, in fact, 468 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: it is good news that we exposed this because the 469 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: I R. S was not doing what they were supposed 470 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 1: to do. They were not doing the annual audits of 471 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 1: the president's taxes, which they're supposed to do by law. 472 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: It sounds like you have a clear picture on that. 473 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: But I wonder how you're feeling about other issues that 474 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: are going to come up in the House Ways and 475 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: Means Committee, especially as Republicans take control. What do you 476 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: think is the single biggest legislative issue heading into three uh, 477 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 1: that you and your Republican colleagues across the aisle might 478 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: struggle to find consensus on. Well, as you mentioned that 479 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: and we talked about I'm a member of the Ways 480 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 1: the Meaning Committee, but I'm also the incoming ranking member 481 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 1: of the House Budget Committee. And as I look at 482 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 1: three and especially if I were to look at, what 483 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: I'd be most concerned about, it is the fact that 484 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: Republicans from Kevin McCarthy to John Soon the Senate, to 485 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 1: every single one who is currently running for Budget Committee chair, 486 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 1: they have all said that they will refus used to 487 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: raise the debt ceiling unless Democrats given the certain demands 488 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: about cutting social security and cutting Medicare. This is dangerous rhetoric. 489 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: We came very close in eleven I wasn't here at 490 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: the time, but certainly we'll all recall that. Then the 491 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 1: Tea Party Congress that swept in after the November elections, 492 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: they went about almost not raising the debt ceiling. The 493 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: United States came very close to defaulting on our debt 494 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 1: for the first time in US history, which would have 495 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: had a cataclysmic effect not just in the American economy, 496 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: but the worldwide economy. So that's an issue. I've been 497 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: active on it for years, attempting to perform the way 498 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 1: in which we raise the debt ceiling. This issue is 499 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: going to be front and center in my committee. Uh 500 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 1: and for me personally, I do believe, based on current projections, 501 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: UM Secretary Yellen will have to use what are called 502 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: extraordinary measures in the first quarter because of our bumping 503 00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 1: up against the debt ceiling, and then certainly by lay 504 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: summer Congress will have to act. Yeah, the dead ceiling 505 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 1: is a is a big issue. We follow up very 506 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: closely here at Bloomberg. But I do want to talk 507 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: about Ukraine Fundane. I wonder is is there potentially a 508 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 1: danger of US draining funding and investment for something like Ukraine. UM, 509 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: are you concerned about that or do you think that 510 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: potentially Zelenski's visit, you know, mitigated any concerns from Republicans 511 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 1: about diving deep into that funding. What's President Zlensky said 512 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: in his speech, and I was present for it in 513 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 1: the House chamber. This is not charity, uh, this is 514 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: in American interest that we are aiding Ukraine in this fight. 515 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: The United States has proudly led the free world ever 516 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: since the end of World War Two in standing up 517 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 1: to first Soviet and now Russian aggression. UM. If we 518 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 1: were to turn our backs on Ukraine, it would be 519 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 1: a great mistake. It would only encourage Putin to start 520 00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 1: further wars UH in Europe. I'm very proud of the 521 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: fact that so far support for helping Ukraine has been bipartisan, 522 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: especially in the Senate. Obviously, on the House side you 523 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 1: do have a vocal minority of House Republicans that have 524 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 1: been against UM supporting aid to Ukraine. My concern is 525 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: as we get into next year, that if Kevin McCarthy 526 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: somehow holds on by his fingernails being speaker, he will 527 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 1: be so beholdened to the ultra magic extremists like Marjorie 528 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: Kaylor Green UM that in fact he may be looking 529 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 1: at a way out in terms of supporting Ukraine. So 530 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 1: cautiously optimistic, however, Um, there are there are the potential 531 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: problem spots in the year ahead. All Right, Congressman boy, 532 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 1: we got to talk about George Santos here before we 533 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: let you go. Are you planning to object to seating 534 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:57,280 Speaker 1: George Santos on January three? Well, first, I've been away 535 00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 1: from the news for the last few hours, so I 536 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: don't know if George stan Sos is claimed to be 537 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 1: yet another ethnicity or another religion. Uh, since it seems 538 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 1: every few hours there's something new coming out about the 539 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 1: talented Mr Santos. Um, I think the real question here 540 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 1: is what will Republican Conference leader Kevin McCarthy do. He 541 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: has been totally silent typically when although there is not 542 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 1: really been a situation as dramatic as Santos, but in 543 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: other instances in which you've had members of the House 544 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 1: they misbehaving, it's typically disciplined on your own side. Um, 545 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: you have seen a few Congressional Republicans speak out stating 546 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: the obvious that this is beyond the pail. It demands 547 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:43,480 Speaker 1: an investigation. Kevin McCarthy has been totally silent. Is he 548 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 1: so desperate and craven to become speaker that he will 549 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 1: just silently accept Santos's vote and really not say anything 550 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 1: about this complete fraud. Well, congressional leaders in the past 551 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: have asked for ethics inquiries when issues of credibility like 552 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 1: this have come up. If you had degrade Kevin McCarthy's 553 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 1: response to this so far, what what letter grade would 554 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: you give him? Well, it's either an incomplete or an S. 555 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 1: It's been completely nothing. He hasn't said one word. Uh, 556 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 1: it's quite embarrassing. Actually, And you know, when you look 557 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: at the Republican majority, it's it's very thin. It's the 558 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 1: exact same slim majority that we Democrats after the last 559 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,319 Speaker 1: two years. As you look into know, as you look 560 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,359 Speaker 1: ahead two years and you consider so many Republicans will 561 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:33,440 Speaker 1: be running, especially his first term members and challenging districts, 562 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,160 Speaker 1: I can't imagine they feel great about the fact that 563 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,880 Speaker 1: they have a Republican leader who can't even do the 564 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: right thing and stand up and speak out against Santa's 565 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 1: I gotta wonder on Santos to whether and what his 566 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 1: committee assignments might look like. What do you think about that? Well, 567 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,800 Speaker 1: I at this point, I think Mr. Santa's probably should 568 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,239 Speaker 1: worry a little bit more about the criminal investigations that 569 00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 1: are happening now in New York into him, as well 570 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:05,279 Speaker 1: as potential further investigations. I'm very curious to find out 571 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,319 Speaker 1: how exactly his campaign was funded, how he went from 572 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 1: a net worth of about five thousand dollars to a 573 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 1: few millions, to the point that he could loan his 574 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 1: campaign three quarters of a million dollars um. He has 575 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 1: a lot of questions to answer, if you wanted my 576 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,239 Speaker 1: free advice, UM. Worrying about his committee assignments should be 577 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 1: last on his lip. Congressman Brendan Boyle really appreciate you 578 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,320 Speaker 1: joining us and having that candid conversation with us about 579 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,840 Speaker 1: the next session, and of course your thoughts on Congressman Santos, 580 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 1: really appreciate it. We're going to continue to cover all 581 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,480 Speaker 1: of this right here on sound On. I'm Mattis Mills. 582 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:55,839 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg sound On on 583 00:35:55,920 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. Bloomberg sound On brought to you by Innovator. 584 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,880 Speaker 1: Should refunds. Your business may be eligible to receive a 585 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,279 Speaker 1: payroll tax refund. The application takes about eight minutes eight 586 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 1: minutes or less to see if you're small to medium 587 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 1: sized business may be eligible for a refund of up 588 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,719 Speaker 1: to twenty six thousand dollars per employee kept on the 589 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:19,680 Speaker 1: payroll during the pandemic. Find out at get refunds dot com. 590 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 1: I'm atics Mills in for Joe Matthew holding on by 591 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:27,040 Speaker 1: his finger nails. That's how Representative Brendan Boyle described Kevin 592 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,759 Speaker 1: McCarthy's bid for Speaker of the House that might be 593 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,279 Speaker 1: mired by newly elected Congressman George Santos, who admits to 594 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 1: making false claims, among them saying he worked at Goldman 595 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,439 Speaker 1: Sachs and City Group. No record of employment form there, 596 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,280 Speaker 1: and no record at the college he claims to have attended. 597 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,560 Speaker 1: So what is Congress going to do about it? Let's 598 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 1: get to our expert panel. We've got lesser months in 599 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 1: principal at Government Relations from b GR Group and former 600 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 1: staff director of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and Lincoln Mitchell, 601 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:57,759 Speaker 1: political analyst and adjunct Associate research scholar at the Institute 602 00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,919 Speaker 1: of warm Peace Studies at Columbia University. Lincoln, I got 603 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,799 Speaker 1: to start with you here. Just level with me. Have 604 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:09,040 Speaker 1: you ever lied on the old resume? No, I haven't 605 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 1: because my resume is so quirky that people assume all 606 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:13,040 Speaker 1: these things. And I thought you were going to say, 607 00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 1: because my resume is so good, I don't have to, 608 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 1: but quirky is more fun. Yes, And if I have, 609 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:23,240 Speaker 1: it would by understating my educational credentials, because I find myself, 610 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,280 Speaker 1: you know, following you that category of weirdly over educated. 611 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,400 Speaker 1: So I have not fair enough right. Sometimes it actually 612 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 1: it hinders you more if you're if you're making yourself 613 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,920 Speaker 1: look too good on the resume. What about you, Lincoln, 614 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 1: any any horror stories of your lying on the resume? 615 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:42,879 Speaker 1: Just a little bit tiny lie? Are you talking to Lester? 616 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:47,439 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, No worries medicine? Uh yeah, I'm thinking back. 617 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 1: Maybe one of my jobs in high school, I worked 618 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:54,760 Speaker 1: for the county health department and I measured where the wells, 619 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,040 Speaker 1: all the privately owned wells were in the county. I 620 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,040 Speaker 1: don't remember. I think I may have made up my 621 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,359 Speaker 1: title for that job just because I didn't I wasn't 622 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: really sure what it was. But other than that, I've 623 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,759 Speaker 1: tried to be uh meticulously honest in my and all 624 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,840 Speaker 1: of that stuff. Yeah, I've definitely made things up along 625 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:17,200 Speaker 1: the way in in like high school, like things like 626 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,880 Speaker 1: you know, Um, I was the manager at MOS instead 627 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 1: of just being like the lowly restroom cleaner because I 628 00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:26,080 Speaker 1: wanted to sound cool and at the time I thought 629 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:27,840 Speaker 1: that made me sound cool. But I've never done it 630 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 1: to become an elected official. So you know, the situation 631 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,359 Speaker 1: is a little bit different here. Um Lincoln, going back 632 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 1: to you here on this, any estimation from you on 633 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,800 Speaker 1: what's going to happen with Santos, well, what's going to 634 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,160 Speaker 1: happen is gonna be driven by the criminal investigations. In 635 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,960 Speaker 1: my view, I agree with what the Congressman was saying earlier, 636 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:49,640 Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy's not going to do anything about this. He 637 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 1: needs that vote for the speakership, and they also need 638 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,920 Speaker 1: that seat for the Republican Party to twenty two. That's 639 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:56,879 Speaker 1: the number seats they have now is not a lot, 640 00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:00,920 Speaker 1: and Santos one in what was a very Republican year. 641 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 1: But you know, if that goes to a special and 642 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,920 Speaker 1: replaces him, it's not it's not a guaranteed stays in 643 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,680 Speaker 1: in GOP hands. So I think they try to ride 644 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:10,920 Speaker 1: this out. And but if the criminal investigation gets him 645 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 1: and he has to step down or worse then that 646 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,160 Speaker 1: that's what we'll bring us to it. And otherwise they're 647 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,320 Speaker 1: waiting for another story to come and you know, waiting 648 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:19,560 Speaker 1: for the latest from Marjorie Taylor Green or something, and 649 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,560 Speaker 1: people stop talking about George Santo. Well, it's not like 650 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:24,920 Speaker 1: this is the first time somebody has lied as a 651 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,680 Speaker 1: member of Congress, right, Lester, anybody else come to mind 652 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 1: for you a big liar that's made it to d C. Well, 653 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:35,880 Speaker 1: there was, there was enad waltolets green back in had 654 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,040 Speaker 1: kind of a spectacular flame out. It took a little 655 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 1: bit longer. By the way, I think the smartt move 656 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,439 Speaker 1: for Kevin McCarthy is to say, we're not seating this guy. 657 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:47,160 Speaker 1: He doesn't really need that vote. He's got five no votes, 658 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,520 Speaker 1: he can only afford four, so he already doesn't have 659 00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,160 Speaker 1: the numbers. If he actually showed some leadership on this 660 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 1: issue and took a stand, a tough stand that was 661 00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,400 Speaker 1: actually good for the party in the long run, maybe 662 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 1: he'd have an easier time becoming speaker. Just a thought. 663 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:05,439 Speaker 1: I can agree or disagree on that. I I think 664 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,120 Speaker 1: the theory behind it is right. The chance of Kevin 665 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:11,680 Speaker 1: McCarthy doing that is next to nothing. He's done this 666 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,320 Speaker 1: is not a person who will have if he become Speaker, 667 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 1: who will have done that through leadership. He will have 668 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:18,919 Speaker 1: done that by just kind of the luck of the draw. 669 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 1: He needs every vote he can get, and you know, 670 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:24,719 Speaker 1: if he were thinking, I'm going to reach across the 671 00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:28,000 Speaker 1: island bringing five Conservative Democrats, but he's not thinking that way. 672 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 1: He's going to get it from the publican cause because 673 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 1: he needs every vote he can get it, and if 674 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,359 Speaker 1: he had Santos, We're going to continue to cover that. 675 00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for our panel for joining us.