1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: This call is subject to monitoring, recording, and identification of 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,319 Speaker 1: the location of the person being called. 3 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:11,880 Speaker 2: To accept charges. 4 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 3: Press one. 5 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 2: Thank you for using the curius. You may start the 6 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 2: conversation now. One of my attorneys, Lenn Whatley, received a 7 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 2: package on his doorstep of his anonymous package. He opened 8 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 2: the package and found out that it contained hundreds of 9 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 2: GBI files about the classified investigation that the agency had 10 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:42,520 Speaker 2: been doing into quite supremacist involvement in the Atlantic killings. 11 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 2: It also contained, to our surprise, several tape recorded confessions 12 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:49,599 Speaker 2: some of the clansmen. They admitted and they were involved 13 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 2: in the murder of some of the miscan murdered cases. 14 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 4: And at another body was discovered today the twenty third. 15 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 3: At Voice Task Force headquarters. There are twenty seven faces 16 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 3: on the wall, twenty six murdered, one missing. 17 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 4: We do not know the person or persons that are responsible. Therefore, 18 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:06,040 Speaker 4: we do not have the money. 19 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 5: From Tenderfoo TV in house TOI forks in Atlanta. 20 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:12,839 Speaker 6: Like eleven other recent victims in Atlanta, Rogers apparently. 21 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 2: Was a sphyxia victor. 22 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 3: Atlanta is unlikely to catch the killer unless he keeps 23 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 3: on killing. 24 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 4: This is Atlanta monster. 25 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,319 Speaker 1: This was the first time Wayne Williams has been photographed 26 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: since his trial almost two years ago. Jail officials say 27 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 1: he has gained forty pounds since he's been behind bars, 28 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 1: but he didn't look heavier, just a little older. Sheriff 29 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 1: Leroy Stinchcombe allowed him to hold this unusual news conference 30 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: today because he says he thinks Williams deserves a chance 31 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: to speak his peace before he has moved from the 32 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: county jail into the state prison system. And predictably, Williams 33 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: began by denying he's a child killer. 34 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 7: I have been wrongly accused and connected with the series 35 00:01:59,920 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 7: of peneous crimes, and all I ask is a chance 36 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 7: to see justice. 37 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: Police officials have insisted that since William's arrest, the murders 38 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: of young Atlanta blocks have stopped, but william says he 39 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 1: has evidence that at least forty murders fitting the pattern 40 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: of the child murderers have been committed since he's been 41 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: in jail. 42 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 8: Wayne tried to get his case reopened. If you look 43 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 8: at it, if you go back in history, of course, 44 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 8: a lot of this is archive. This is long before 45 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 8: the Internet, back in nineteen eighty one and eighty two. 46 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 8: But if you pull old records. I mean there were 47 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 8: people dying well after Wayne got convicted. For Wayne's attorneys, 48 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 8: that's a good argument. 49 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 7: Since my risk. Summer nineteen eighty one, the decomposed body 50 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 7: of a young teenage black female found strangled on I twenty. 51 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 7: Summer of nineteen eighty one, fifteen year old black male 52 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,359 Speaker 7: found shot on West Lake Avenue in front of home, 53 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 7: no further information. Summer of nineteen eighty one, the twenty 54 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 7: one year old uncle of murder victim Curtis Walker was 55 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 7: found did no further information. As you can see, there 56 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 7: are definitely homicided to need to be investigated, and all 57 00:02:58,160 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 7: we're saying is that we want the chance to get 58 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 7: in court and deal with this information. 59 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,119 Speaker 1: Will Jail officials say there have been threats on William's 60 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: life almost daily since he's been behind bars. He will 61 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 1: probably be moved into the state prison system sometime in January, 62 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 1: but Sheriff's Stinchcombe warrens if he is put into the 63 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: general prison population, he won't last a day. But William 64 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: says he's not afraid. 65 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:22,359 Speaker 7: I have some reservations about it because it will be 66 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 7: a change, as he said of address, but no I 67 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 7: don't fear from my life. I just put him a 68 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 7: faith in God and trust. 69 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 1: William's attorneys have just two more days to ask the 70 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: state Supreme Court to reconsider its decision to uphold his 71 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: two murder convictions. If the court denies that request as expected, 72 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: william says he's prepared to appeal his case all the 73 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: way to the US Supreme Court if necessary. Although today's 74 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: news conference was greatly anticipated, there were certainly no surprises. Instead, 75 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: Williams continued to play off the long standing public doubts 76 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: that the wrong man may be in jail, but once 77 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: his case is kicked up into the federal courts, the 78 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: only thing that matters are very complicated legal issues and 79 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: public doubts, no matter how strong, probably won't do anything 80 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: to set him free. 81 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 5: That may be right, especially after all these years, the 82 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 5: public doubt has persisted. Tyrone Brooks, civil rights advocate and 83 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 5: acquaintance of Wayne Williams, started his own petition to reopen 84 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 5: the Atlanti Shaw murder cases. 85 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 9: Representative Tyrone Brooks says he is now demanding that all 86 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 9: twenty eight murder cases blamed on Wayne Williams be reopened. 87 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 9: Brooks claiming several police task Force investigators have long doubted 88 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 9: Wayne Williams involvement. 89 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 10: They pretty much were dissatisfied with the way things were going. 90 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 10: They did not believe that Wayne Williams was the right suspect. 91 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 10: They didn't believe that the investigators were really on the 92 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 10: right track, and really that the pressure was coming from Washington, 93 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:50,600 Speaker 10: from the Vice President's office down to Governor Busby, through 94 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 10: the GBI, through the District Attorney, and on down to 95 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 10: the Atlanta Police Bureau. 96 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 9: Pressure to do what, pressure to. 97 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 10: Find somebody, to find a scapegoat. 98 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 8: I mean, you had George Bush coming in and saying, 99 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 8: we need these murders solved. The first black mayor of Atlanta, 100 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 8: he was under a lot of pressure to get these solved. 101 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:11,239 Speaker 8: There were black kids dying in the city of Atlanta. 102 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 8: That's not a good look for the first black mayor. 103 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,840 Speaker 8: You had a lot of pressure from Washington to get 104 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 8: this solved. So, I mean, it looks like that's what happened, 105 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 8: because you can't go from we don't have enough evidence 106 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 8: to prosecute to oh my god, we have all of 107 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 8: these patterns and Wayne is our guy. 108 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 9: Brooks alluding to a secret June nineteenth, nineteen eighty one 109 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 9: midnight meeting at the Georgia Governor's mansion, a meeting in 110 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 9: which Fulton District Attorney Lewis Slayton was reportedly pressured by 111 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:43,359 Speaker 9: former Governor Busby to arrest Wayne Williams, despite Slayton's reluctance 112 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 9: to do so at the time. Two days later, on 113 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 9: June twenty first, Slayton did move against Williams, arresting him 114 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 9: at his house. 115 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 5: If the arrest was backed by pressure from higher authorities, 116 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 5: what else was in those case files that didn't get 117 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 5: enough attention? 118 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 11: One box more than sixty two hundred documents twenty homicide 119 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 11: files containing information never before revealed publicly on one of 120 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 11: the most explosive criminal cases in the nation's history. The 121 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 11: files don't paint a pretty picture. Instead, they sometimes paint 122 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 11: the troubled city scape where some of the victims came from. 123 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 11: One file explorer's possible ties between a group of homosexuals 124 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 11: and three victims. The files revealed that at some points 125 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:24,280 Speaker 11: during the investigation, suspects in at least two of the 126 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:28,239 Speaker 11: killings had included close relatives. There are mentions of drugs, 127 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:32,799 Speaker 11: persons with criminal record surface, often one victim's mother allegedly 128 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 11: admitted to investigators she was a prostitute, but most of 129 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 11: that had little to do with the end of the 130 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 11: investigation that came with a conviction of Wayne Williams in 131 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 11: two of the cases. 132 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 8: Oh my god, it was everything but Wayne Williams. I mean, 133 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 8: there was so many other suspects in Wayne was not 134 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 8: one of them at all. 135 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 6: The newest defense rest and revolves around the murdered case 136 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 6: of Lubageta and the supposed involvement of some unnamed members 137 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 6: of the q Klux Klan. The new appeal resting as 138 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 6: it does on the Lubijita case and the Klan involvement 139 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 6: may be too fragile. 140 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 8: Well, there was always speculation even before Wayne got arrested 141 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 8: about some clan involvement. 142 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 10: I do believe that there's an element of the Ku 143 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 10: Kluk Klan embedded in the law enforcement community and still 144 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 10: is today. I do believe that wiping out young black 145 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 10: men was a part of the overall legitimate to weaken 146 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 10: the black community. 147 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 12: The KKK. When you were a kid, that's what we 148 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 12: talked about, I mean, because it was strange for me. 149 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 12: I mean when we were in middle school. You know, 150 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 12: they still burned cross on Stone Mount. I mean that 151 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 12: was the rallying point for the KKK. I mean it 152 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 12: was just our ways to things. 153 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 4: That you know that you heard. 154 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 8: So there were a lot of theories right that people 155 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 8: developed that because they were all black, because they were 156 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 8: mostly male, this is you know, this was a KKK conspiracy. 157 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 13: Some people in the black community thought it was the 158 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 13: Ku Klux Klan that was grabbing these black boys. That 159 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 13: whole theory around it being the clan came up because 160 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 13: people in the black community did not believe a black 161 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 13: person would do that to another black person, particularly a 162 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:11,119 Speaker 13: black child. 163 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 5: How do you feel about the people who think that 164 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 5: the clan is involved in the Atlanta chap murders. 165 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 14: That was a joke. That was an absolute joke. The 166 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 14: Klan number one is not smart enough to commit twenty 167 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 14: five perfect crimes. Number two. If they did do it, 168 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 14: they were taking an ad out in the newspaper. They 169 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 14: were toothless. But again, the Bureau insisted on keeping watch 170 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 14: on them, so we just had informants monitor them meetings, 171 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 14: make sure nobody was going to do anything crazy plans 172 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 14: just not smart enough. A bunch of rednecks who hate 173 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 14: blacks and they weren't bright enough to commit this crime, 174 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 14: and if they did, they would have taken out an 175 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 14: ad in the paper. Plus, how do you go into 176 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 14: a black neighborhood dressed in a hood. 177 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 15: The Klan wanted to take credit for it. I mean, 178 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 15: they're racist. It would have been a feather in their 179 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 15: hat if as group they could have said, yeah, we 180 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,199 Speaker 15: killed twenty eight kids and got bye with it. But 181 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:06,719 Speaker 15: they couldn't find anybody that would say, yes, I did it, 182 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:09,359 Speaker 15: and they didn't know enough of the facts to convince anybody. 183 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:09,559 Speaker 4: That they did it. 184 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 8: There was a guy named Charles Sanders who was known 185 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 8: to be a clan member. I think his brother or 186 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 8: uncle was pretty high up in the Klan at that time, 187 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,439 Speaker 8: and there was speculation, there was talks that he was 188 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 8: the one that actually killed Louby Jeter. 189 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: For years, selling things on streets and in shopping centers 190 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: has been a prime way for children to earn extra money. 191 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: Fourteen year old Chuck Jeter was no exception. 192 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 14: We didn't see any pattern. We didn't see anything, and 193 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 14: then January third, after we came back, Louby Jeter happened. 194 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,559 Speaker 1: On January third, he went to the Stuart Lakewood mall 195 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 1: in southeast Atlanta to sell cans of zep Gel, a cardiotorizer. 196 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:52,200 Speaker 4: Luby. 197 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 14: Jeter was fifteen years old. He was selling zepp products 198 00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:01,439 Speaker 14: at a outdoor mall in down in Southwest at once Sat. 199 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:04,959 Speaker 14: The afternoon he disappeared. So they organized a search on 200 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 14: the ninth of January, and I remember a cold, rainy Friday, 201 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 14: and they told us APD told us it gave us 202 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 14: various areas in the city areas they thought that a 203 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 14: body might be dumped. 204 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 1: Investigators were literally beating the bushes looking for any trace 205 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: of fourteen year old Chuck Jeter. Trained dogs sniffed the 206 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: area around the mall today but turned up nothing. This weekend, 207 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: volunteer searchers will be on the lookout for Jeter, but 208 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,319 Speaker 1: police say so far they're stumped. 209 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 16: The roll call was impressive. Officers from the SWAT Team, 210 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 16: the Task Force, the Motorcycle Squad were here, so were 211 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 16: recruits who have yet seen much action. Even agents from 212 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 16: both the federal and Georgia Bureaus of Investigation were helping out. 213 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:53,599 Speaker 16: This was the first ever massive search conducted by the 214 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 16: Atlanta Police Bureau. The more than two hundred officers would 215 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,319 Speaker 16: look for anything that could help find fourteen year old 216 00:10:59,360 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 16: Luby Jeter. 217 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:02,959 Speaker 15: My partner and I were walking up and down the 218 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:04,319 Speaker 15: side of that road trying to see if we can 219 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 15: find any evidence, with no hope of finding anything. And 220 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 15: I looked down in the creek and I said, there's 221 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 15: a pair of jeans. The creek was overflowing its banks. 222 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 15: He held my arms while I leaned over into that creek. 223 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 15: Found those jeans and Louby's school schedules in the back 224 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 15: pocket the pants. We took the pants and the belt, 225 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 15: and one of the females in the family, I remember 226 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:29,839 Speaker 15: she identified the belt as being his because he was 227 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,439 Speaker 15: in such a state of deterioration that I did and 228 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 15: identify him was. 229 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 4: Kind of hard. 230 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 14: I remember driving out there. The agent that had his 231 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 14: case assigned was Frank Pickets. Heck of a guy. He's 232 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 14: still around, hell of a man. And he came out 233 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 14: of that woods with tears in his eyes. He was crying. 234 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:56,439 Speaker 15: Looby Jeter just broke my heart. Outstanding kid, I mean, 235 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 15: just a phenomenal kid. 236 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,839 Speaker 16: Landover Road was still blocked off this morning. Only a 237 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 16: few people could venture near the site where Jeter's body 238 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 16: was found. Dozens of Atlanta, police and FBI agents gathered. 239 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 2: At the site. 240 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 16: The discovery of Jeter's body here now lends weight to 241 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 16: the theory that one person could be responsible for several 242 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 16: of the murders. The way Jeter died by strangulation fits 243 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 16: into a pattern. Three of Atlanta's other murdered children died 244 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 16: the same way. Two others died by suffocation. His discovery 245 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 16: yesterday fits into another pattern. Location. Within the last year 246 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 16: and a half, six children black males between the ages 247 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 16: of seven and fifteen have all been found within a 248 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:37,199 Speaker 16: five mile radius. 249 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,719 Speaker 8: Either the pattern doesn't exist, there is no pattern, or 250 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 8: we got a much bigger problem. There was an independent 251 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 8: witness that said, this guy, Charles Sanders, said he killed 252 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 8: Louby Jeter. What is your evidence to say Wayne killed 253 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 8: Loubis Jeter. They have none. 254 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 17: Wayne Williams is being represented in this healing for a 255 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:02,079 Speaker 17: new trial by his former attorney, Lynn Watley and two 256 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 17: of his country's most prominent attorneys, Bobby Lee Cook of Somerville, Georgia, 257 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:08,680 Speaker 17: and William Kuntler of New York. 258 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 2: We were at Avieu's Corpus court in Butts County. 259 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 18: The defense is trying to show that the police were 260 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 18: investigating that the Ku Klux Klan may have been responsible 261 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 18: for some of the child murders, but that that file 262 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 18: was never turned over to help with Williams's defense. 263 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 2: Apparently, what we found out after we got in the 264 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:31,199 Speaker 2: Avieu's corpus court and the source source within the GBS, 265 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,679 Speaker 2: was that they had a confidential informan I believe his 266 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 2: name Whittaker. 267 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 19: The first witness today, Billy Joe Whittaker, says he worked 268 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 19: as a police informant during the missing and murdered investigation. 269 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 17: Whittaker says he told police. 270 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 19: Detectives that a klansman from Mountain View, Charles Sanders, told 271 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 19: Whittaker he killed. 272 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 17: One of the child victims, Louby Jeter. 273 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 2: And we were able to contact Whittaker and he did 274 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 2: appear in court and testify under old force stating that 275 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 2: one of the families I believe they were mounted viuekbas 276 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:06,439 Speaker 2: Panders families was indeed responsible for that. When I told 277 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 2: you that, I believe Charles Sanders the clok clerk Kilder 278 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 2: this one. 279 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 19: Jail Robby Lee Cook and William Huntlers say they have 280 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 19: a letter from Atlanta Police Major Herman Griner. They called 281 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 19: Sanders the klansmen, the prime suspect in the murders four 282 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 19: months before Wayne Williams was arrested in charge with two 283 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 19: of the murderers. 284 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 5: In nineteen ninety one, Wayne's attorneys called for a court 285 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 5: hearing were police informant Billy Joe Whittaker testified for Wayne Williams. 286 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 5: This man, Billy Joe Whittaker, was in jail during the 287 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 5: early eighties, but when he heard that Louby Jeter had 288 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 5: become one of the victims, he contacted the Georgia Bureau 289 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 5: of Investigation. Whittaker stated that a man named Charles Sanders 290 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 5: made threats against Louby Jeter's life. Whittaker claimed he wore 291 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 5: recording equipment, went to Sanders home and got him to 292 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 5: admit to the child's murder. If that was true, then 293 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 5: Wayne Williams was not responsible for Luby Jeter's death. 294 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 8: It definitely makes you question. Okay, first, not enough evidence 295 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 8: to convict Wayne. Now there's these tapes from this clans 296 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 8: member which is mind boggling, and I've actually heard in. 297 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 2: The way chap recordings at all, and they talk about 298 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 2: openly and brazenly about saying, yes, I killed a little 299 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 2: black be yes, I'm going to black black black with him, 300 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 2: and we went to court trying to get this in 301 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 2: but however, the court in Budson County Block just refused 302 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 2: it and they put the tape recordings under seal and 303 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 2: not Judge Craggs Court. And we attempted to bring this 304 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 2: up at Feneral Higgs Quarters Court and that was where 305 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 2: the issues started the appeal. So we've been trying for 306 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 2: decades to getting this information out because the GBI did 307 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 2: not want it out because they issued in one of 308 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 2: the documents that the statement saying that they were fred 309 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 2: and prop Releasing this information was got a race war 310 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 2: in Atlanta. 311 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 17: As in certain county District Attorney Joe J. Lay prosecuted 312 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 17: Wayne Williams. 313 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: He says he was never told about the plan file. 314 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 17: Do you think you should have known about it? 315 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 4: Not? Particularly, It wasn't right about at the time. 316 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 3: The GBI had it, The police department had it, two 317 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 3: prosecutors had it, two judges had it. 318 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 8: If Lewis Slayton didn't have it, means he didn't want it. 319 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 5: After Whitaker testified, Williams was still not granted a retrial. 320 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 5: The strangest part is that now the tapes are nowhere 321 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 5: to be found. 322 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 2: So this was information that the TBI had, but like 323 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 2: I say, they kept it suppressed because they weren't a 324 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 2: piece of worried about a racial war instead of trying 325 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 2: to solve the killing in Atlanta. 326 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 8: You didn't want a race war in nineteen eighty one 327 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 8: or eighty two. 328 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 4: You just didn't. 329 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 8: I mean, we weren't that far removed from the civil rights. 330 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 8: You had your first black mayor, You had all of 331 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 8: these elected officials because of the mayor that were black. 332 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 8: So it wouldn't look good for the city at all. 333 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 8: I liken it to Rodney King when those officers got off, 334 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 8: look what happened in that city. And then I likened 335 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 8: it to O. J. Simpson. Now say what you want, 336 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 8: I believe the evidence should it was that OJ killed 337 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 8: Ron and the colet, But there was talks in the city. Well, 338 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 8: if he's convicted, there's gonna be riots, It's gonna be 339 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 8: a whole racial thing. If you look at that case, 340 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 8: that was right down the middle, black and white. You know, 341 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,679 Speaker 8: had OJ been convicted, we would have saw another nineteen 342 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 8: ninety two Rodney King. I think that would have happened 343 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 8: here in Atlanta back in nineteen eighty one eighty two. 344 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 8: If it would have been a klansman, there's no doubt, 345 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 8: no doubt in my mind. 346 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 2: We are saying, you know that the white suspects declared 347 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:34,239 Speaker 2: was responsible to allow them, but we know that they 348 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 2: were responsible for this particular group of killers. 349 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 4: Here. 350 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 2: We had a confidential informant that was black Eyed Canton. 351 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 2: We had a GVI source I can't reveal his name. 352 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 2: The agent then enough to box some lens George Stiff Litterally, 353 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 2: it had several real real Kate recorders of wire gather 354 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 2: jail as doctuments on their on their file stared to 355 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 2: widecat disappers admitted to killing the movie cheter had been 356 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,199 Speaker 2: involved in several of the other cases. And we've got 357 00:17:59,280 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 2: that all white. 358 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 8: When you have a name like Charles Sanders and you 359 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 8: have a witness who knew Charles saying that yes, Charles 360 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 8: is the one that said he killed Luby Jeter. Way 361 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 8: back when there were secret recordings, there was some incident 362 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:18,199 Speaker 8: supposedly around the Star Wars theater where Luby Jeter hit 363 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 8: his car with like a shopping car to a go cart. 364 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 2: Apparently there was a go cart accident in which he 365 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 2: collided with Sandra's car according to the information we had, 366 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 2: and that Sanders made a thread against him that he 367 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 2: was killing and he reiterates the threat in the Wildcat 368 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 2: that we heard. I'm para raised him down to the 369 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 2: visit my rememory. He said, I basically, yeah, I killed 370 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,640 Speaker 2: a little black beat black, black black Jim. And then 371 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 2: he said, yeah, I'm going to get sport. 372 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 8: And he had made the comment he was going to 373 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 8: kill that little black kid for hitting his car and 374 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 8: he was going to strangle him to death, and of 375 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 8: course that's how Luby Jeter was killed. 376 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 5: In nineteen eighty six, Spin magazine published an article titled 377 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:05,399 Speaker 5: A Question of Justice. The article's authors, Barry Michael Cooper 378 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 5: and Robert Keating, raised doubt about way William's guilt and 379 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 5: brought the idea of the KKK involvement to mainstream news. 380 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 5: It was a hugely popular article, and really it was 381 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 5: the first time the Atlanta child murders KKK theory was 382 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 5: given any legitimate credence by the media. 383 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 8: It's from a publication, so of course people can argue 384 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 8: that it was slantt you know, argue that it's fake news. 385 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 8: That's the new term nowadays. But what's interesting is not 386 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 8: only is it in the Spin article, but the FBI 387 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 8: talks about these recordings. Yeah, so I don't think the 388 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 8: tapes were made up. I definitely don't think the transcripts 389 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 8: were made up. 390 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:48,160 Speaker 5: I asked Vincent what Charles Sanders said in those transcripts 391 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 5: that alluded to him being the Atlanta child murderer killing 392 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 5: more than one person. 393 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 8: In one of those conversations, there was talk, and I 394 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 8: believe it came from Charles Sanders that he was going 395 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 8: to go out and drive around and look for another 396 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 8: black kid, another victim. 397 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 5: If this was true, then why wasn't this a bigger deal? 398 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 5: From all the records I've seen, that's the closest to 399 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 5: a confession that law enforcement ever had. 400 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 8: Time affects any investigation or any case, because you know, 401 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 8: memories get skewed and a lot of stuff gets lost 402 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,200 Speaker 8: or destroyed. You know a lot of people along the 403 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,919 Speaker 8: way pass away, like Charles Sanders is no longer here, 404 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 8: so we could never go back and question him. Here 405 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:30,640 Speaker 8: we are thirty plus years removed, and time actually allows 406 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 8: any false narrative to become true, if that makes sense. Oh, yeah, 407 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 8: there were a bunch of kids that died and this 408 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 8: guy did it. That's the narrative. Pretty much everyone knows. 409 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 8: That's the narrative that they know, but they don't know 410 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 8: the ins and outs of Well, this person could have 411 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 8: been a suspect. This person, this person, this person, you know, 412 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 8: they just know Wayne Williams, you know, which they were 413 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 8: deep into a lot of people, right They were deep 414 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 8: into the guy in the Blue Nova. They were deep 415 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,199 Speaker 8: into the Sanders, they were deep into the Klan. They 416 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 8: could have known that they were plotting something that the 417 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 8: public wasn't privy to. You know, if you look at 418 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 8: some of these terror groups that are investigated now that 419 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 8: you hear about later the FBI says, oh, we halted 420 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 8: a terror threat because we are investigating you know, this person, 421 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 8: which no one heard about besides Charles Sanders, who admitted 422 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 8: to killing Louis Jeter. 423 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 20: What started as a joke one hundred years ago when 424 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 20: a group of men donned bed sheets for a romp, 425 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 20: has over the years attracted to it persons charged with 426 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 20: acts of harassment, intimidation, and violence throughout the South. Even 427 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 20: though the nation has been outraged for many years, the 428 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 20: Ku Klux Klan persists with its bizarre ritual and trappings, 429 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,880 Speaker 20: but one hundred years is a long time for a joke. 430 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 5: I talked to Felix Harcourt, author of the book Ku 431 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 5: Klux Culture, for some more historical background on the KKK. 432 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 21: The Ku Klux Klan effectively operates as a white supremacist 433 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 21: terrorist organization founded after the Civil War, during what we 434 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 21: commonly refer to as the Reconstruction period. It's founded in Pulaski, Tennessee, 435 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,160 Speaker 21: and it's not super popular to start with. It lies 436 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 21: fairly fallow through the First World War. If you're looking 437 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 21: at the Reconstruction Clan, they stand for white supremacy and 438 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 21: the maintenance of white power. If you're looking at the 439 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 21: Civil Rights era, they largely are standing for the same thing. 440 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 21: If you're looking at the twenties, they achieve this much 441 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 21: much larger success in the twenties because they effectively diversify 442 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 21: their hatreds. They say, hey, you know, if you hate 443 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 21: African Americans, we are there for you. But also if 444 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 21: you hate Catholics, we. 445 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:48,159 Speaker 4: Are there for you. 446 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 21: If you hate Jewish immigrants, we are there for you. 447 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 21: If you hate immigrants of all kinds. We are there 448 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 21: for you. If you're worried about prohibition, we're there for you. 449 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,440 Speaker 21: By the time you get to the Clan of the 450 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 21: late seventies early eighties, the Klan is all in on 451 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 21: immigration and our staging stunts on the Mexican border. So 452 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,920 Speaker 21: there is this kind of this fundamental racist tenet and 453 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 21: then these variations over time as to what draws people 454 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 21: to the clan and what people see the clan standing for. 455 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 21: To some extent, the Clan of the eighties sets the 456 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,639 Speaker 21: model for what we see with white supremacists now, particularly 457 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 21: through what David Duke does. David Duke really comes out 458 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 21: in the late seventies and tries to remake the public 459 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 21: image of the clan to some extent, and effectively, what 460 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 21: he tries to do is bureaucratize hate. It's a methodology 461 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,159 Speaker 21: that we're seeing being used to great effect by the 462 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:52,359 Speaker 21: alt right now. And David Duke is really astute at 463 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 21: using the media to get this message out, saying that 464 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 21: there is a new Clan, whatever that may mean, and 465 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 21: in doing so effectively spearheads a clan revival in the 466 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 21: late seventies early eighties. And this doesn't exist in a vacuum. 467 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 21: There is a big upsweep in white supremacism in the 468 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 21: late seventies early eighties in the United States, and so 469 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 21: you do see a very active and very visible white 470 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 21: supremacist movement on the March by the early eighties. I 471 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 21: will say that certainly that is a period when we 472 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:33,159 Speaker 21: are seeing a rise in clan activity, and it's a 473 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 21: period in which we are seeing an uptick in white 474 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 21: supremacist activity. More generally, all clan members are white supremacists, 475 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 21: not all white supremacists are clan members, and so we 476 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 21: have always seen significant white supremacist activity that fundamentally is 477 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 21: not linked to the clan as an organization. Most of 478 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 21: the anti civil rights violence is being carried out not 479 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:06,400 Speaker 21: by clan members but by average white supremacists, if that's 480 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 21: a term we can use, and to some extent, that's 481 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 21: what we see today. The clan as an organization is weak, 482 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 21: it is diffuse. Still, there is no single clan. There 483 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:23,879 Speaker 21: are all these individual organizations kind of battling for the 484 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 21: title of who is the legitimate clan, But they are 485 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 21: part of a much broader tapestry of white supremacism that 486 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 21: we can see operating very clearly. I think white supremacists 487 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 21: have always been ordinary people. That doesn't mean that we 488 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 21: should normalize them. It means that we should look at 489 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 21: ourselves and say, what is it that is giving cover 490 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 21: to these people to exist within our society and to 491 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 21: exist very comfortably within that society. Just because they are dapper, 492 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 21: that word that kept getting tagged to Richard Spencer, doesn't 493 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 21: mean that they are not still subscribers to a hateful 494 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 21: ideology of racism and white supremacism. The fact that the 495 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 21: clan is on the rise in the late seventies early eighties, 496 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 21: the fact that racial violence is on the rise to 497 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 21: the extent that congressional hearings are being held into anti 498 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 21: black violence at the time, and the fact that Atlanta 499 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 21: holds this significant position within the history of the clan 500 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:36,439 Speaker 21: makes it understandable why someone would link these child murders 501 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 21: to clan members. It is an entirely reasonable assumption to 502 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 21: believe that white supremacist violence is touching your community in 503 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 21: this way. 504 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 5: In the eyes of Vincent, it was nearly impossible that 505 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 5: there was only one killer involved. Of course, there is 506 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 5: a pattern, but according to Vincent, it doesn't match up 507 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:08,120 Speaker 5: in each and every case. 508 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 8: Where was this Atlanta monster that everyone was so in 509 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,639 Speaker 8: fear of for two years? There were several monsters. All 510 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 8: of these victims, they had different suspects other than Wayne Williams, 511 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 8: other than Wayne Williams. So there, Yeah, there were several monsters, 512 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 8: but there wasn't just one monster going around killing these kids. 513 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 8: Is there a conspiracy going on here? You have to 514 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 8: You can't not question that, you know, So. 515 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 5: Is there a conspiracy at play here? The term conspiracy 516 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 5: tends to immediately incite ridicule. Many people will equate conspiracy 517 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:48,399 Speaker 5: with total fantasy, unbelievable stories to explain away historical events. 518 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 22: A conspiracy theory and a nactual conspiracy are two very 519 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 22: different things nowadays. 520 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 5: To gain some perspective, I talked to one of the 521 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,880 Speaker 5: guys from How Stuff Works, who has his own podcast 522 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 5: on this very topic. 523 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 22: My name is Ben Bollen, and along with my co 524 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 22: host Matt Frederick and Noel Brown, I produce and host 525 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 22: a podcasts called Stuff They Don't Want You To Know, 526 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 22: which applies critical thinking to what we would call conspiracy theories. 527 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 22: So government cover ups, unsolved crimes, various allegations of that sort. 528 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 22: So are you a conspiracy theorist, I would say, I 529 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:27,159 Speaker 22: find them interesting, but the term gets kind of problematic. 530 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 22: So a conspiracy at its most basic level is a 531 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 22: situation where in two or more people or entities work 532 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 22: together to deceive or manipulate a third party. 533 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 5: When I even hear the word conspiracy theory, I'm already 534 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 5: tuning out, and I wanted to talk to you about 535 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 5: just sort of the origin of conspiracy theories to begin with. 536 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 5: Obviously there are some true ones, right, I mean, where 537 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 5: did this all come from? 538 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 22: So what tends to happen when people hear a phraser term, 539 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 22: especially the the phrase of the term conspiracy theory is, 540 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 22: as you said, kind of shut out and sort of 541 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 22: the idea that, oh, okay, anything that happens after I 542 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 22: hear this phrase is going to be utter hogwash. Interestingly enough, 543 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 22: the reason that's the case in the United States today 544 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 22: is because shortly after the jfk assassination, most Americans did 545 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 22: not believe the official government explanation, and so intelligence agencies 546 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 22: spread memos to newspapers media outlets of the time saying 547 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 22: this is what happened. The Russian government is attempting to 548 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 22: spread propaganda. So if you hear anything else other than 549 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 22: this official story, be sure to dismiss it and call 550 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 22: it a quote conspiracy theory. We do know that certain 551 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 22: things that were once considered conspiracy theories are true. It 552 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 22: did turn out that banks were laundering money for international 553 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 22: drug cartels, and it turns out that it is somewhat 554 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 22: disingenuous to group that kind of phenomenon along with CIA 555 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 22: drug spunkling in the same bucket as the idea that 556 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 22: what the British Royal family is a bunch of evil, 557 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 22: half alien lizard people. You know, those are both called 558 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 22: conspiracy theories, but they're very different, and there's one incredibly 559 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 22: important difference, and that's that the first stuff is true. 560 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 22: The second stuff, I'm just going to go out on 561 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 22: a limb and say is not true. 562 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 5: I asked Ben to outline the most prevalent conspiracy theories 563 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 5: for the Atlanta child murders case. 564 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 22: One would be the idea that law enforcement did not 565 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,719 Speaker 22: have a clue who the real killer was and they 566 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 22: wanted to close the cases, so they pinned them, or 567 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 22: they pen many of these child murders on Wayne Williams 568 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 22: in court just to get them off the books. Another 569 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 22: would be the idea that there was some sort of 570 00:30:55,680 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 22: clandestine sex trafficking ring at play, and that again law 571 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 22: enforcement for some reason or another assisted in covering up 572 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 22: this information and keeping it from the public. And then 573 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 22: the third idea would be that the KKK or other 574 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 22: white supremacist groups were committing the murders with either tacit 575 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 22: assistance or approval by sympathetic law enforcement officers. A great 576 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 22: deal of it does come from the conversations relayed by Sanders, 577 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 22: and in the excellent Spin article from the time, there's 578 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 22: some top notch journalistic investigation. They had one of the 579 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 22: journalists who I think broke the first Spin story on 580 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 22: crack cocaine, who was writing this and exploring this angle, 581 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 22: and they had an informant named b. J. Jones that 582 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 22: they thought was a solid guy who came to them 583 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 22: and said that there was proof that the KKK, specifically 584 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 22: the Sanders, and possibly not just this individual, but members 585 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 22: of his family or his close associates were involved in 586 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 22: these murders with the goal of killing one black child 587 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 22: a month or something of that nature. And there's a 588 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 22: further aspect here that we have to remember, and that's 589 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 22: the context or the cultural ecosystem in which this occurs. 590 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 22: Distrust of a largely white police force is already incredibly high. 591 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 22: If there were a doomsday clock for race relations in 592 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 22: Atlanta at this time, it would be about three minutes 593 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:33,479 Speaker 22: to midnight. 594 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 5: The only publication that pushed this out there was the 595 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 5: Spin story, and you can't go find these original recordings, 596 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,719 Speaker 5: but these guys at Spin were able to get their 597 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 5: hands on some transcripts. But besides that, there's nothing out 598 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 5: there that publicly exists that says Charles Sanders was a 599 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 5: part of the Atlanta child murners. 600 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 22: Yeah, and that's one of the frightening, tantalizing, and I 601 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 22: would say a base frustrate things for anyone investigating this. 602 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 22: We're really in a situation where and if we want 603 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 22: to prove or disprove this sort of connection, we would 604 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 22: need someone to go speak directly to a primary source to. 605 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 5: Get to the bottom of this theory. I would have 606 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 5: to find someone who is close to Charles Sanders, still 607 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 5: alive and also willing to talk. It seemed pretty unlikely, 608 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 5: but after weeks of searching, I got a strange email 609 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,480 Speaker 5: that led me to one of Sanders's old friends. 610 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 4: I don't want to tell anything because my wife right now, 611 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 4: as you're a nervous we've been through this before my 612 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 4: name was put out there and it was a scary ordeal. 613 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 4: Family spent a few weeks in a hotel just out 614 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 4: of being scared. And I don't know you from Adam. 615 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:01,960 Speaker 4: It's a story that I've held home to for a 616 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 4: long time that I've known about. I don't know how 617 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:08,359 Speaker 4: you want to go about this pain. 618 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 5: You can always come here to the office that we 619 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 5: have at part rather or not. 620 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:20,359 Speaker 4: I first met him back in nineteen eighty. We would 621 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,400 Speaker 4: hang out and sit around and shoot the shit and 622 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 4: drink beers and smoke pot and you know, after working 623 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 4: hours and whatnot. Him and his brothers were in the KKK. 624 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 4: When I met him up here in this sleep little 625 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,719 Speaker 4: town I live in, he was not involved. He had 626 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,760 Speaker 4: gotten out. He was a nice guy, good old Redeck 627 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,360 Speaker 4: had a few teeth missing, you know, had a beard 628 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 4: and a small stature, and you know, you wouldn't think 629 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:53,400 Speaker 4: here in this little sleepy town anything different that he 630 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,799 Speaker 4: was any kind of a monster. He certainly didn't act 631 00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 4: like it until we drank and then he got the 632 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,319 Speaker 4: eyes of Charles Manson that would look right through deil. 633 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 4: It was scary. It was real scary. It scared all 634 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 4: of us. But it wasn't that often. He stopped in 635 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 4: one day with this copy of Spin magazine. He had 636 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 4: that look in his eyes. He obviously had been drinking 637 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:25,719 Speaker 4: some hard liquor. He said, I got something for y'all 638 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,719 Speaker 4: to take a look at. And you know, we didn't 639 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,319 Speaker 4: have a clue what he was talking about. Pulled out 640 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,400 Speaker 4: the magazine and we started reading. It was jaw dropping. 641 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 4: Somebody asked him if it's real and if the article 642 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 4: was true. He told us it was. He said it was, 643 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 4: it was true. He told us about certain situations that 644 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 4: where was he The FBI or the ATF would come 645 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 4: in and read their house in the middle of the 646 00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:00,840 Speaker 4: night and shake him down. They were come in. I 647 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 4: remember him talking about them coming in all the time 648 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,439 Speaker 4: and trying to shake him down and try to find 649 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:11,320 Speaker 4: some kind of evidence. And I remember Charles saying that 650 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 4: he was lucky because his carpet matched Wang Williams carpet 651 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:21,360 Speaker 4: and as well as the white German shepherd Hares match. 652 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 4: He owned a white German shepherd. Wang Williams also owned 653 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:33,200 Speaker 4: a white German shepherd It just so happens that the 654 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 4: person Wang Williams that they penned all these murders on 655 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 4: had so many similarities with the Sanders as far as 656 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:44,800 Speaker 4: the dog and the carpet. 657 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 2: Here. 658 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,240 Speaker 4: Again, I haven't read the Spin magazine since the eighties, 659 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,759 Speaker 4: but I remember situation Charles told us about. They were 660 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:57,120 Speaker 4: hanging outside his home and there was a black kid 661 00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 4: on a go cart. He accidentally ran into their car. 662 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:08,800 Speaker 4: They didn't appreciate that. They were pissed, which get to 663 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:15,840 Speaker 4: this Cheeter I believe that's his name, and I remember 664 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,960 Speaker 4: him saying, we got him, we took care of him. 665 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 4: He told me they got him, they got the boy 666 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:27,400 Speaker 4: for doing that. I don't remember him ever saying that 667 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 4: KKK was involved with this. I only remember him talking 668 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,520 Speaker 4: about him and his brothers being involved in this, So 669 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:38,000 Speaker 4: I don't know to what extent the brothers were involved. 670 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,680 Speaker 4: I do you know they had a cash of weapons 671 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:50,759 Speaker 4: because they were expecting a huge revolution to come out 672 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:58,319 Speaker 4: of this. And he basically told us that he did 673 00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:04,880 Speaker 4: it and everything that's being magazine was true. I don't know. 674 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,399 Speaker 4: I don't really know why he decided to come out 675 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,040 Speaker 4: to us and tell us that he trusted us, I guess, 676 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:18,480 Speaker 4: but it certainly blew us away. But he really never 677 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,640 Speaker 4: went into any details of any of the other killings 678 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,000 Speaker 4: besides the fact that there were other killings that him 679 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:31,600 Speaker 4: and his brothers did. And what kind victims were they 680 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,719 Speaker 4: They were black children, they were children, they were of adults, 681 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:42,040 Speaker 4: they were children. I don't know what was on their mind, 682 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,200 Speaker 4: if they were going to commit genocide in Atlanta and 683 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,600 Speaker 4: try to do away with you, or if he was 684 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,799 Speaker 4: trying to cause a race a race riot of some sort. 685 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,320 Speaker 4: I know that's why they had that cash weapons, was 686 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,479 Speaker 4: because they expected some type of a race riot. 687 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 5: Who do you think is responsible for the Alanche Homers? 688 00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:09,800 Speaker 4: Well, I know who's responsible for some of them, you know, 689 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,439 Speaker 4: and Wayne Williams may be responsible for some as well. 690 00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:24,120 Speaker 4: He let it be known that it was Spin Magazine 691 00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:28,400 Speaker 4: was right on that they took care of those boys. 692 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:30,040 Speaker 10: You know. 693 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 4: Everybody then was hoping it wasn't a white guy or 694 00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:40,400 Speaker 4: the KKK because they didn't want a race riot to 695 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:45,960 Speaker 4: take place in Atlanta. And I believe they geared their 696 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 4: investigation towards Gwyn Williams, and once they found out he 697 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 4: had possibly killed some of the adults, it was easy 698 00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,160 Speaker 4: pickings to throw all the other children on him too. 699 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:01,920 Speaker 4: Did you ever consider going to the police with this 700 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,239 Speaker 4: information back then? No, No, I was too scared. No, 701 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:06,600 Speaker 4: I wouldn't have gone to the. 702 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:07,319 Speaker 15: Police back then. 703 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,200 Speaker 4: Can you tell me about why you were scared? Scared 704 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:12,680 Speaker 4: from alife? I mean, I scared for my life, and 705 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,040 Speaker 4: at that time I had had a wife. Didn't have 706 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,080 Speaker 4: a daughter then, but I had a wife. And you know, 707 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,520 Speaker 4: I saw that look in his eyes when he was crazy. 708 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:28,200 Speaker 4: I believe he could have done anything anything. I did. 709 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,440 Speaker 4: Go god By m a rural black guy that used 710 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,040 Speaker 4: to do TV connotations and in Atlanta. He did a 711 00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:38,640 Speaker 4: gig on the missing and murdered children of Atlanta one time, 712 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:40,319 Speaker 4: and I called in and told him what I knew, 713 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:48,080 Speaker 4: and he knew about the Sanders brothers. But my my 714 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:52,160 Speaker 4: name was brought up, and that scared me. I never 715 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,840 Speaker 4: spoke to anybody after that. And that was in nineteen 716 00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,399 Speaker 4: ninety four. So once I found out that my name 717 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,719 Speaker 4: had brought up, we moved into a hotel for a 718 00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 4: couple of weeks. Stay clear of you know of anything. 719 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:09,800 Speaker 4: I believe. Not only was my name brought up, my 720 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,880 Speaker 4: town was brought up who did you fear? In particular 721 00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:17,480 Speaker 4: Sanders brothers, And I don't know how many of them 722 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:19,040 Speaker 4: there are, there's like four or five. 723 00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:21,239 Speaker 15: You them. 724 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:25,440 Speaker 4: I feared them more than anything else. I feared them, 725 00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,040 Speaker 4: you know. For some reason, I'm thinking that these acts 726 00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 4: of murder were perpetrated by the Sanders brothers, not necessarily 727 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:42,120 Speaker 4: by the KKKA. To my knowledge, there was no other members. 728 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 4: There was no other people involved with the murders except 729 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:50,160 Speaker 4: of Sanders brothers and in them alone. I never heard 730 00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:55,720 Speaker 4: him talking about the KKK being necessarily involved with the murders. 731 00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:57,880 Speaker 4: It was always him and his brothers. 732 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:02,719 Speaker 2: You know. 733 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,000 Speaker 4: Uh, the wrong's been done that needs to be righted. 734 00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:12,320 Speaker 4: But I'm still the aera of of anybody who was 735 00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,719 Speaker 4: involved with the Sanders. Obviously, I know what they can do. 736 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:22,080 Speaker 4: Once it was panned on Wayne Williams, they were thrilled. 737 00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:26,960 Speaker 4: That was their way out. He it was being pinned 738 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:31,879 Speaker 4: on him, and that was their way out. 739 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:39,719 Speaker 5: What do you think should happen now? 740 00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:51,400 Speaker 4: I don't know, you know, I really don't know. I 741 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:54,319 Speaker 4: don't know. I don't know where it should go from here. 742 00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:59,200 Speaker 4: I know that there were some wrongs that should probably 743 00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:04,200 Speaker 4: be righted. Charles is dead, he's gone. There's family still suffering, 744 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:09,160 Speaker 4: you know, and there's families that I think Wayne Williams 745 00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:10,920 Speaker 4: did it, and there's others that think he didn't do 746 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,800 Speaker 4: it all. And I can't tell you he didn't do 747 00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:21,919 Speaker 4: it all. I know who killed those kids, and I'm 748 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:26,400 Speaker 4: sorry that I did not come come forth sooner, but 749 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,520 Speaker 4: I felt my life was in danger as well. But 750 00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:34,040 Speaker 4: justice has not been served. If it would have been 751 00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:38,239 Speaker 4: my daughter, I would want the truth reveal. Can't change 752 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:44,640 Speaker 4: the past, but at least it would answer questions. You 753 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:52,160 Speaker 4: had children that were brutally murdered for no reason, completely 754 00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:58,280 Speaker 4: innocent children. And if indeed you think it was somebody 755 00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:02,960 Speaker 4: other than Wane Williams, you're most definitely correct. You know, 756 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:06,800 Speaker 4: anybody out there he thinks that Wayne Williams didn't do 757 00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,960 Speaker 4: all this by himself is correct. This wasn't all on him. 758 00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:15,160 Speaker 4: And I only know that from the mouth of the 759 00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:16,440 Speaker 4: devil himself. 760 00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:32,080 Speaker 5: Next time on Atlanta Monster, The Clayton. 761 00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:34,200 Speaker 11: County woman and her husband were driving on this narrow 762 00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:37,520 Speaker 11: cemetery road when they saw a green car coming straight 763 00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:39,120 Speaker 11: at them at a high rate of speed. 764 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:43,120 Speaker 23: The driver was tall, and he's light colored, A light 765 00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:46,640 Speaker 23: colored black man and he had on a wig. I 766 00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,000 Speaker 23: know it was a wig because he was losing it 767 00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,680 Speaker 23: because it was a child in the front struggling. He 768 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:52,959 Speaker 23: was struggling with that child. 769 00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:54,920 Speaker 4: You're sure you saw a child. 770 00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:56,560 Speaker 23: In the criss Yes, I saw it because it was 771 00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:58,640 Speaker 23: just back and forth like that and like that was 772 00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:02,000 Speaker 23: trying to hold hang on to that child. It was 773 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,680 Speaker 23: a boy between ages of the bat ten and twelve, 774 00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:07,280 Speaker 23: and he had a short haircut. 775 00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,120 Speaker 8: You think you could identify these two and the one 776 00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:12,360 Speaker 8: with the. 777 00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:14,840 Speaker 23: Week handle glasses, I could identify. 778 00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:25,239 Speaker 5: The Atlanta Child murders is one of the largest and 779 00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:28,839 Speaker 5: most complex cases in US history. As a team, we've 780 00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:32,400 Speaker 5: spent months digging through police records, court documents, and media archives. 781 00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:36,000 Speaker 5: Through all this research, we've uncovered stories you've never heard before, 782 00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:38,440 Speaker 5: and next week we're going to dig deeper into some 783 00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:46,480 Speaker 5: of these stories. Atlanta Monster is an investigative podcast told 784 00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:49,799 Speaker 5: week by week, with new episodes every Friday. A joint 785 00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:54,400 Speaker 5: production between How Stuff Works and Tenderfoot TV. Original music 786 00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,520 Speaker 5: is by Makeup and Vanity Set. Audio archives courtesy of 787 00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:03,760 Speaker 5: WSB News Film and Videotape Collection, Brown Media Archives, University 788 00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:08,120 Speaker 5: of Georgia Libraries For the latest updates, please visit atlantamonster 789 00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:12,600 Speaker 5: dot com or follow us on social media. One last thing, 790 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:16,880 Speaker 5: We've set up an Atlanta Monster tip line. Anyone with information, leads, 791 00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:20,040 Speaker 5: or personal accounts pertaining to the Atlanta child murders can 792 00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:22,879 Speaker 5: call us and leave a message. The number is one 793 00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:28,200 Speaker 5: eight three three two eight five six sixty sixty seven. Again, 794 00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:32,759 Speaker 5: that's one eight three three two eight five six six 795 00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:34,920 Speaker 5: sixty seven. Thanks for listening. 796 00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:03,640 Speaker 22: Let's bring it to a human level here in the 797 00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:08,480 Speaker 22: United States. The first conspiracy that many people encounter occurs 798 00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:11,440 Speaker 22: when they're kids. It's the story of Santa Claus. And 799 00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:15,160 Speaker 22: you can't really blame people for being distrustful of authority 800 00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:19,719 Speaker 22: after that. I mean, it's a conspiracy that everyone participates in. 801 00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,000 Speaker 22: Oh and I should have put a warning in there 802 00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,560 Speaker 22: for parents, But Santa is real.