WEBVTT - The Luddites: Misunderstood Working Class Heroes 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:09.240 Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:13.680 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:16.760 Chuck and Jerry's here tooon. We're about to break our 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:21.560 computers just to get in the mood for this episode. 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:25.160 Good job, my friend. 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:27.280 Do you think so, because a lot of the times 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:28.840 you say like, oh, that was great, or way to 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:30.440 go or something like that, and I'm like, that was 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:32.960 not that good. And that's a good example of that. 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:37.800 No, I don't mean that joke. I mean the the 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:39.840 article you put together, just like the old days. 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:42.840 Oh good, okay, good. So it's clear you're not gaslighting 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:44.480 me about my jokes being good. 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:47.760 Now, this article is great, the joke was mid Let's 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:48.160 do it. 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:51.400 All right, let's do it. So we're talking about light heightes, 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:53.960 and I think just about everybody in the English speaking 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:56.880 world and probably beyond are familiar with the light eights 0:00:56.920 --> 0:00:59.720 to some degree or not. But just as a little 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:03.600 background refresher, the Ludites were a group of textile workers 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:07.040 living at the beginning of the nineteenth century in the 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:11.839 Midlands in the north of England, which had recently become industrialized, 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:16.080 and they didn't like the machines that were the new 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:20.200 technology for using for making textiles. So they broke them all. 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:24.440 And that's the Luddites. There's nothing more to understand. There's 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:26.039 no more nuance to them than that. 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:29.319 Well, yeah, and you know, I think a lot of 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:33.800 people may not even know where the name came from 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:38.360 and may just think luddite is a word for someone 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:42.160 who is afraid of technology or hates technology. It's kind 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:45.160 of been co opted as such. But as we will learn, 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:48.560 you're being cooi and there is a lot of nuance. 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:51.880 And what the Ludites really were were a people that 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:56.800 got together, some craftsmen and artisans that got together and 0:01:56.880 --> 0:02:00.400 were sort of the first workers rights people who very 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:04.200 reasonably tried to make workers' rights deals in the face 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:07.680 of the industrial revolution and only turned to this after 0:02:07.720 --> 0:02:08.280 that failed. 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:12.880 Yeah, so this was the first instance of capitalism kind 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:18.120 of steamrolling over labor, the only steamrolling steamrolling over Yeah, 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:21.440 steam rolling over labor and labor's rights and basically taking 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:25.000 care of labor and being equitable and fair and profit 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:28.600 sharing the first instance. And so they were the first 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:31.360 people to fight against it, and sadly they were the 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:33.520 first people to lose that battle. First of many. 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:36.560 Yeah, they were the Bernie Bros. Of the day. 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:43.040 So let's go back way back, not all the way back, 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:46.239 let's just go back to twenty twelve, Chuck. Oh, sure, 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:47.680 because I like this anecdote. 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:50.919 Yeah, yeah, that was the Summer Olympics that I believe 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:55.600 Danny Boyle curated the opening ceremony and all that stuff 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:56.360 that year, right. 0:02:56.320 --> 0:03:00.480 Yeah, the twenty twelve London Olympics, Summer Olympics, the opening 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:05.240 ceremony there was kind of a super brief synopsis of 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:06.200 English history. 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:09.200 Yeah, that's what you do. Yeah, it was really great, 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:11.480 just like France did, right, exactly. 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:16.120 So there's this moment in the opening ceremonies where the 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:19.320 people all move from the countryside to the city, and 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:22.480 if I remember correctly, I'm doing this from memory, they 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:26.440 were harkened by men in black suits wearing stovetops or 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:32.040 stovepipe hats, okay, And what that represented was the beginning 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:35.160 of industrialization, like we tend to think of the Industrial 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:37.920 Revolution here in America's happening here in America. That was 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:40.840 the second one. The first one had taken place one 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:45.000 hundred to fifty years before in England, specifically in the 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:47.840 north of England and like sounds like Manchester and Liverpool. 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:51.040 And the reason that everybody was being called from the 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:55.400 countryside to the city figuratively and literally was because that's 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:58.400 where the machines are, the new machines that have been 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:03.840 perfected using steam power that could automate all sorts of 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:06.440 different processes that used to have to be done by hand. 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:09.480 They were big, and they were cumbersome, and they were expensive. 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:12.320 So rather than people doing stuff in their home anymore, 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:14.200 they had to go to where the machines are to 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:16.719 do work. Now. That was a radical. 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:19.440 Change, Yeah, a big change, and that same change, you know, 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:21.719 we've talked about plenty of times in terms of our 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:25.240 American experience here, but like you said, it happened previously 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:29.440 in England. Same deal, people from the country moving into 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:32.719 the city, steam power running the show. And the first 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:35.520 industry over there to kind of get smashed in the 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:40.599 face with that new reality was the textile industry. And 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:44.200 they're in the Midlands of England. Am I even saying 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:46.240 that right because we were about to say a lot 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:47.480 of Shires. 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:50.680 I think it's pronounced the Midland. Its spelled Midlands, but 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:52.840 it's pronounced Worcestershire. 0:04:52.800 --> 0:05:02.159 Right, but all over that area Yorkshire, Derbyshire, Leicester, Lancashire, 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:06.320 Nottingham shure hmm, Cheshire. 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:07.360 Yeah, the Cheshire cat. 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:11.599 Okay, did I get all those? Why is Leicester the 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:14.400 only one that's not pronouncing. 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:16.039 The sure it is that's Leicestershire. 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:18.880 Oh did I say it wrong to begin with? Then? 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:21.159 No, No, you just left off the shore. And so 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:23.400 just a little note because I didn't understand this until 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:26.120 I finally just went and looked it up. Like Leicester 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:29.320 is the main town, the county seat, if you will, 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:33.520 of the larger county of Leicestershire. So when there's a 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:36.760 suffix of shire on the end of a town name, 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:39.720 that refers to the county and the town is usually 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:42.120 the biggest town or the main town in that county. 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:47.640 Finally clear that up. So in those areas, this is 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:50.240 where the Texas are artisans and you know there were workers. 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:54.440 They were crafts people, trades people. They went through sort 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:57.600 of that traditional route where you're an apprentice you learn 0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:02.159 the craft. They had these robust trade unions and guilds 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:05.599 that made sure the quality of the worker was up 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:08.520 to snuff, the quality of the product and the materials 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:11.600 were all up to snuff, and they had this good 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:14.760 deal going with the merchant class up to that point 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:19.280 where these wealthy merchants basically funded the operations and then 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:21.920 split the profits. They would say, here, we're going to 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:24.520 put a loom in your house. These hand looms aren't 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:27.680 too huge, it can fit in your barn. We're going 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:30.880 to give you some good, high quality materials to spin, 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:33.640 and we'll split the profits in a way that works 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:36.240 for both of us. And they had a good life. 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:38.119 They were like working three or four days a week 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:43.400 at home and like, you know, making textiles and earning 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:44.080 a good living. 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:46.880 Yeah. So, And there was a quote from a guy 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:50.479 named William Gardner who was a stocking maker at the time, 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:53.320 which was a huge industry right at the beginning or 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:56.919 up until the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, and he 0:06:56.960 --> 0:07:00.320 said the year was checkered with holidays, wakes, which are 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:03.800 festivals held non our patron saints, and fairs. It was 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:07.040 not one dull round of labor, and like it was 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:10.960 just a much more leisurely life than what was about 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:14.000 to come. And the thing that's so gripping about the 0:07:14.000 --> 0:07:18.680 beginning of the Industrial Revolution and specifically the initial disruption 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:23.760 in the textile industry is that it happened overnight. I 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:26.960 mean we're talking in the span of like maybe ten twelve, 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:31.000 fifteen years. People went from they just worked at home 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:33.520 three or four days a week to having to work 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:36.160 twelve to thirteen hour days, seven days a week in 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:39.120 a factory just to make less money than they had 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:40.920 been making before at home. 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:43.880 Yeah. And the other thing too, was this wasn't like 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:48.440 the beginning of automation. There had been automation and textile 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:53.280 manufacturing for a little while at this point. But and 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:56.480 this is very key, Queen Elizabeth one saw the writing 0:07:56.520 --> 0:08:00.200 on the wall way back in the day and said, hey, 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:03.960 William Lee, you want a patent for this machine. You 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:05.680 can't have one because that's going to put too many 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:09.800 people out of work. So it's very interesting that, you know, 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:15.120 long before this happened, you know, with the Luddites, Queen 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:17.240 Elizabeth the first like saw what was coming. 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:21.160 Yeah, that was pretty precient for sure. And so so yes, 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:23.760 that's a big misconception. People are like, these machines just 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:25.640 came up out of nowhere and all of a sudden 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:28.080 it just disrupted everything. No, the machines have been there 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:31.080 for hundreds of years. What changed was the way that 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:34.600 the machines were used and that they were improved along 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:37.920 the way. Like the machine that William Lee invented in 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:40.680 fifteen eighty compared to the machines that were being used 0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:43.959 in seventeen eighty or eighteen hundred or eighteen ten were 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:47.360 pretty different. The ones that came later were much much better. 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:50.120 And that there were a bunch of different machines that 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:54.240 were used in the weaving textile creation process that had 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:56.600 all become improved enough that you could put them all 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:59.839 together and have and create a mill. That was a 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:02.040 that was part one of why this all kind of 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:03.439 happened at the time that it did. 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:06.480 Yeah, I mean, you know, if you have a factory, 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:08.840 it can't just be the machine that makes the thing. 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:12.040 You need all the other machines to automate that process 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:15.400 as well if you want a really efficient system. And 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:17.679 so that's what happened. One of the other things that 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:20.600 happened to kind of you know, and again we keep 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:24.680 saying steamroll or steam power, but this thing was full 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:29.360 and full steam ahead when Adams when Adam Smith wrote 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:32.840 a book in seventeen seventy six called an inquiry into 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:36.360 the nature and causes of the Wealth of Nations, No 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:39.959 Colon No. And we've talked a lot about Adam Smith 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:43.200 on the show, and he was the guy that basically said, Hey, 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:47.240 you know what, free markets the way to go. Laissez 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:50.000 faire economics is a way to go. Let people stay 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:52.440 out of things, Let the market work it out, Let 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:55.839 the manufacturers and the business owners work it out with 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:59.360 the workers and the merchant class like, why are you 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:02.079 splitting all these profits? Like you should be keeping the 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:04.599 lion's share of this stuff. And the merchant class was like, 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:05.640 I love this book. 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:07.959 Yeah. And to be fair to Adam Smith, like he 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:13.280 wasn't advocating for workers to get completely screwed over. His 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:17.920 arguments and his ideas and his theory of free market 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:22.280 competition were interpreted in a way by the merchant class 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:26.200 to mean that they should be self interested and maximize 0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:30.640 profits as much as they could. He wasn't necessarily expressly 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:33.480 saying that. He almost seems to have been a little naive, 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:36.120 or at the very least, he didn't predict the way 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:37.600 that his theory would be used. 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:40.520 I think, oh, I mean, I think that's exactly the 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:44.040 thing was he thought. When he was saying it'll work 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:47.240 itself out, he wasn't saying to the benefit of few 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:50.160 and the detriment of many. He was saying, they'll all 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:53.760 just kind of like, as we will see that England did. 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:55.719 They were kind of like, hey, you guys will work 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:57.800 this out and we should just stay out of it, 0:10:57.880 --> 0:10:59.640 and I'm sure you'll come to a fair agreement. 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:01.559 Yeah. So kind of I guess, kind of like the 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:03.600 pendulum's going to swing this way, and then they'll swing 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:05.240 back that way and that way, and they'll finally just 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:08.040 settle in the middle. But the pendulum ended up swinging 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:12.160 one way toward owners management capital and just got stuck 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:14.199 their mid air and has been there ever since. 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:17.560 Yeah, that's a pendulum. What do you call a pendulum 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:23.280 that doesn't swing anymore? Sounds like a riddle. Okay, So 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:24.280 we got to stick now. 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:27.079 So there was a third factor too, and that was 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:29.719 the economic background of England. And at the turn of 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:32.680 the nineteenth century it was in a really big recession 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:33.240 at the time. 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:36.800 Yeah, they had been at war with Napoleon for a 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:39.840 long time. That's going to drain your you know, your 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:43.760 resources as a nation. And then they also because they 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:46.480 were at war with France, had blockades against each other, 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:51.120 but shut down a big trade partner. Those markets that 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:54.040 were open to those merchants in England were suddenly closed 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:58.000 and it hit everyone across the board in England like 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:01.640 there was like families were going hungry for the first 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:02.520 time in a long time. 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:05.199 Yeah, people who had been able to escape you know, 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:09.400 previous recessions were getting hit hard. So the reason that 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:11.920 this is important is that, first of all, now you 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:15.560 have desperate workers who are in a situation that they 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:19.720 need help, which puts them in a disadvantage. And then 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:21.840 at the same time, you also have a good reason, 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:27.120 especially now that everyone's read the Wealth of Nations, for 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:30.600 the owners of these looms, what were the merchant class 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:33.640 and are about to become the first industrialists, They have 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:38.040 a good reason to replace workers with automated machines. Because 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:41.080 profits are starting to dwindle. You want to maximize profits. 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:43.920 So that's a really great way to do it. Replace 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:45.439 a bunch of people who you have to pay like 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:48.040 a fair wage to with some machines that you just 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:51.000 pay for upfront and then hire some teenager to make 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:53.800 sure it keeps running and pay them peanuts for doing so. 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:59.640 Boy, this was really the beginning of the downfall of everything. 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:03.640 Is this is the beginning of Hey man, this stuff's 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:05.719 not going to be as good, but who cares. We 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:08.199 can make it for cheap, and we can sell it 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:10.920 for cheaper, and if they wear out, people can just 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:15.440 buy another cheap version of it that will make It's 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:18.920 like this was the beginning of the drop of in 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:21.079 craftsmanship and quality and everything. 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:23.479 I think that's why I find this period so fascinating, 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:27.160 because our modern world was created like here in this 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:30.360 like decade actually just a few years really, And it's 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:32.400 funny that you say the quality of goods went down, 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:35.360 because I've seen more than once it argued that the 0:13:35.440 --> 0:13:39.079 thing that really sparked the Luddite movement was not the 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:41.559 new technology, was not the unfair treatment, was not the 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:45.360 poor wages. It was the decline in the quality of 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:49.640 what was being produced. What formerly like socks essentially stockings, 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:52.960 what had been produced before with great craftsmanship and sold 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:55.640 at a fair price, was now being made really cheaply 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:58.679 and sold cheaply. And that that's what really set off 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:01.560 the people who were in the text industry to basically riot. 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:04.360 Later on, Yeah, I mean what it did was it 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:07.120 put them in a position where they were, you know, 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:09.280 if you wanted to stay out of that and remain 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:12.959 because it's not like every single small you know business 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:17.040 textile crafts person went out of business overnight, like they 0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:19.480 were like I could keep this open, like I actually 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:22.440 own my own loom, but now I have to, you know, 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:24.760 use cheaper goods and sell them cheaper if I want 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:27.120 to keep up, or you know, just give up and 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:29.440 go work for them. And neither one of those were 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:30.440 good prospects. 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:33.840 No, no, because there were zero regulations at the outset 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:35.880 of this, so the mill owners just did whatever they 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:38.880 wanted and you could either go out on the street 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:40.880 and starve, or you could come work for me under 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:43.720 my terms. And so the work in the mills was 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:46.000 really difficult. They kept it really damp in there, so 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:49.040 tuberculosis would run rampant and kill a bunch of people. 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:53.080 The fabric, like little parties of fabric could give you 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:56.280 long damage. The machines all together were really loud, so 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:58.680 they could give you hearing damage. And the machines were 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:02.440 really dangerous too, like people would lose their lives, including children. 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:06.680 That again, we're working thirteen fourteen hour days, seven days 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:07.680 a week at the mill. 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:11.760 Yeah, and they didn't need those artisans anymore because they 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:15.200 could train a seventeen year old to run these automated 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:19.640 you know, the automated machinery. And this was like, you know, 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:22.800 this was the birth of capitalism. When quality went down, 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:27.320 prices went down, Fewer and fewer workers getting paid less 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:30.160 for more work, and the people that own the joint 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:30.720 getting rich. 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:34.600 Right. But I think for those of us alive today, 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:37.880 because capitalism was birth this way, a lot of people 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:41.800 are like, well, capitalism doesn't work, it's inherently exploitive. That's 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:45.040 not true. It was just born that way. It doesn't 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:47.560 have to be that way, but it was born that way, 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:49.480 and it was allowed to remain that way and grow 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:52.680 up that way, so that it's just so commonplace now 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:54.840 that people think like that's the only way it can be. 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:58.360 And I firmly believe that there's an equitable way to 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:01.120 do capitalism. Ye're just not doing it. That that's what 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:03.760 the issue is, and that that's this is where that started. 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:07.280 Yeah, that chip has sailed, my friend that I is 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:10.920 not moving disagree. Oh, you think there's going to be 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:12.040 a big change in that. 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:15.040 I think, Yeah, I think there can be. I'm not 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:17.520 saying there definitely will be, but I think that there's 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:20.200 there's the potential for it. Sure, I don't think it's 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:23.600 completely it's just going to be that way forever. Not necessarily. 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:26.320 It could be, but I don't think that is definitely 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:27.680 going to be. That's my take. 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:32.120 All Right, Well, I admire you're optimism. So shall we 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:53.880 take a break. Yeah, all right, all right. One thing 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:58.120 that we mentioned in act one, uh, you like that? 0:16:58.400 --> 0:16:59.480 Fancying this thing up a little bit? 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:01.440 I forgot to introduced the gun that goes off in 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:05.040 Act three, That's right. You know what I found out 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:06.760 who that was? I was Chekhov that said that. 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:10.760 Yeah, you finally found that out. 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:13.080 Sure, I thought it was you. 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:16.200 No, Are you serious? You thought that was me? 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:18.600 No. I knew it was kind of like a trope, 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:20.680 but I didn't know that Chekhov had come up with it. 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:24.440 I guess I'm not so familiar with nineteenth century plays 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:24.800 as you. 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:29.840 Well, you probably never took drama class or dumb English 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:31.920 classes where you read dramas. Well. 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:34.480 What's said is, I was they tried and true drama 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:36.639 kid in high school. So are you really Yeah, we 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:39.719 just didn't do any Chekhov. It was all slapstick comedy 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:40.680 in my high school. 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:44.960 Well, if the rubber chicken is introduced in act one. 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:47.880 It comes back to life and kills everyone in act three. 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:52.200 All right, where was I? Okay? Act one when we 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:57.600 spoke of the misconception that Luddites are afraid of technology, 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:00.840 and I hinted a little further about what I'm going 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:07.880 to say now, which is they tried to They tried 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:09.920 to work it out. They weren't like, oh my gosh, 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:12.720 industrialization's happening. We need to fight it tooth and nail. 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:15.480 They were more like, hey, it looks like this is happening, 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:18.359 so let's uh, you know, there's gonna be a man 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:21.119 one day named Josh Clark who will believe that this 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:24.840 can still happen. We want to make it fair for everyone, 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:27.119 so like, we'll do this, We'll do this work, give 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:31.560 us a minimum wage, make these working conditions safe, maybe 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:35.680 tax these goods to create these pensions for people that 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:38.680 you're definitely putting out of work, and let's like just 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:41.840 roll this out slowly. Let's not just go full steam 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:44.800 ahead here and give people time to like learn how 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:47.800 to do something else, and they went nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:50.520 Yeah, and that's just so contrary to what people think 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:52.600 of as the Ludites today. I mean, if you even 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:55.080 know about the lud Heights beyond you know, the modern 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:57.160 use of the word, that there was an actual group, 0:18:57.520 --> 0:19:00.240 you probably still don't think that they were a reasonable group. 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:02.560 That's not exactly what they're known for because they broke 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:06.800 a bunch of machines, but that was exactly their initial response. 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:10.680 They wanted in, but they wanted in fairly, and so, 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:14.040 like you said, the responses to the request were no, no, no, 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:18.320 no no. And it wasn't just the factory and mill 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:22.080 owners that were saying no. The government was also saying no. 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:27.320 And essentially, when the workers went to Parliament, when some 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:33.639 labor friendly parliamentarians MPs tried to get legislation passed that 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:39.320 kind of helped workers be treated more fairly, it just 0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:43.960 did not pass. And the idea was, the reasoning was 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:48.000 among parliament that anything we would do would just screw 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:52.840 things up, like any regulations we create are just going 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:56.399 to hamper business, maybe put business people out of business. 0:19:56.880 --> 0:19:58.560 Their employees are going to be out on the street. 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:01.840 And so a job where you're exploited is preferable to 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:05.000 no job at all. And since any meddling we might 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:08.360 do will will possibly cause you to lose your job, 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:10.280 we're just not going to get involved. 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:14.160 Yeah, but they did get involved, but they got involved 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:17.399 for the other side, Yeah, big time. In seventeen ninety nine, 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:21.480 they passed the Combination Acts, which outlawed the trade gills 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:23.880 that had kept them, you know, protected up into that point. 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:28.720 It stopped them from collective bargaining. It outlawed strikes, so 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:31.639 they took away basically any tool they would have to 0:20:32.040 --> 0:20:36.040 you know, get fair treatment in better wages. And this 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:40.200 is another key point too, was they had had machines 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:44.119 before we talked about that Queen Elizabeth, you know, not 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:47.000 granting the patent, but the machines were still around since 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:50.280 the mid seventeen hundreds, and some of those machines had 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:54.880 been broken in the past in protest. But they augmented 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:57.239 this law basically on the books that said, hey, if 0:20:57.320 --> 0:20:59.960 you start up with that stuff again, you're going to 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:02.960 to go to the gallows and be hanged in front 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:03.400 of the town. 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:06.919 Yeah. So just to kind of put that into perspective today. 0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:13.280 Imagine if hacking carried the death penalty, that's kind of 0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:16.520 akin to what it was like, but even more simplified 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:20.040 than that. It'd be more like breaking the computer that 0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:24.879 your employer gave you when you were hired, like I'm perfecting. 0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:27.040 Or going into an apple store with a crowbar. 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:30.199 But imagine that that carried the death penalty. So when 0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:33.600 you put all of that together, the government Parliament was 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:36.720 essentially saying, get to work, and whatever the mill owners 0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:38.720 tell you to do, you're going to do it, and 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:41.680