1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's 3 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:16,760 Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here tooon. We're about to break our 4 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 2: computers just to get in the mood for this episode. 5 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: Good job, my friend. 6 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 2: Do you think so, because a lot of the times 7 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 2: you say like, oh, that was great, or way to 8 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 2: go or something like that, and I'm like, that was 9 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 2: not that good. And that's a good example of that. 10 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: No, I don't mean that joke. I mean the the 11 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 1: article you put together, just like the old days. 12 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:42,840 Speaker 2: Oh good, okay, good. So it's clear you're not gaslighting 13 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:44,480 Speaker 2: me about my jokes being good. 14 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: Now, this article is great, the joke was mid Let's 15 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:48,160 Speaker 1: do it. 16 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 2: All right, let's do it. So we're talking about light heightes, 17 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 2: and I think just about everybody in the English speaking 18 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 2: world and probably beyond are familiar with the light eights 19 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 2: to some degree or not. But just as a little 20 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 2: background refresher, the Ludites were a group of textile workers 21 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:07,040 Speaker 2: living at the beginning of the nineteenth century in the 22 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:11,839 Speaker 2: Midlands in the north of England, which had recently become industrialized, 23 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 2: and they didn't like the machines that were the new 24 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 2: technology for using for making textiles. So they broke them all. 25 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 2: And that's the Luddites. There's nothing more to understand. There's 26 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 2: no more nuance to them than that. 27 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and you know, I think a lot of 28 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: people may not even know where the name came from 29 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: and may just think luddite is a word for someone 30 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: who is afraid of technology or hates technology. It's kind 31 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: of been co opted as such. But as we will learn, 32 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: you're being cooi and there is a lot of nuance. 33 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: And what the Ludites really were were a people that 34 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: got together, some craftsmen and artisans that got together and 35 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: were sort of the first workers rights people who very 36 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: reasonably tried to make workers' rights deals in the face 37 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: of the industrial revolution and only turned to this after 38 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: that failed. 39 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, so this was the first instance of capitalism kind 40 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 2: of steamrolling over labor, the only steamrolling steamrolling over Yeah, 41 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 2: steam rolling over labor and labor's rights and basically taking 42 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 2: care of labor and being equitable and fair and profit 43 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 2: sharing the first instance. And so they were the first 44 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:31,360 Speaker 2: people to fight against it, and sadly they were the 45 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 2: first people to lose that battle. First of many. 46 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, they were the Bernie Bros. Of the day. 47 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 2: So let's go back way back, not all the way back, 48 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,239 Speaker 2: let's just go back to twenty twelve, Chuck. Oh, sure, 49 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 2: because I like this anecdote. 50 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that was the Summer Olympics that I believe 51 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: Danny Boyle curated the opening ceremony and all that stuff 52 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 1: that year, right. 53 00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, the twenty twelve London Olympics, Summer Olympics, the opening 54 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 2: ceremony there was kind of a super brief synopsis of 55 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 2: English history. 56 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what you do. Yeah, it was really great, 57 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: just like France did, right, exactly. 58 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 2: So there's this moment in the opening ceremonies where the 59 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 2: people all move from the countryside to the city, and 60 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 2: if I remember correctly, I'm doing this from memory, they 61 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 2: were harkened by men in black suits wearing stovetops or 62 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 2: stovepipe hats, okay, And what that represented was the beginning 63 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 2: of industrialization, like we tend to think of the Industrial 64 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 2: Revolution here in America's happening here in America. That was 65 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 2: the second one. The first one had taken place one 66 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 2: hundred to fifty years before in England, specifically in the 67 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 2: north of England and like sounds like Manchester and Liverpool. 68 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 2: And the reason that everybody was being called from the 69 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 2: countryside to the city figuratively and literally was because that's 70 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 2: where the machines are, the new machines that have been 71 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 2: perfected using steam power that could automate all sorts of 72 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 2: different processes that used to have to be done by hand. 73 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 2: They were big, and they were cumbersome, and they were expensive. 74 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 2: So rather than people doing stuff in their home anymore, 75 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 2: they had to go to where the machines are to 76 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 2: do work. Now. That was a radical. 77 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: Change, Yeah, a big change, and that same change, you know, 78 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 1: we've talked about plenty of times in terms of our 79 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: American experience here, but like you said, it happened previously 80 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: in England. Same deal, people from the country moving into 81 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 1: the city, steam power running the show. And the first 82 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: industry over there to kind of get smashed in the 83 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:40,599 Speaker 1: face with that new reality was the textile industry. And 84 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: they're in the Midlands of England. Am I even saying 85 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: that right because we were about to say a lot 86 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 1: of Shires. 87 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 2: I think it's pronounced the Midland. Its spelled Midlands, but 88 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 2: it's pronounced Worcestershire. 89 00:04:52,800 --> 00:05:02,159 Speaker 1: Right, but all over that area Yorkshire, Derbyshire, Leicester, Lancashire, 90 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: Nottingham shure hmm, Cheshire. 91 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, the Cheshire cat. 92 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 1: Okay, did I get all those? Why is Leicester the 93 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: only one that's not pronouncing. 94 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,039 Speaker 2: The sure it is that's Leicestershire. 95 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: Oh did I say it wrong to begin with? Then? 96 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 2: No, No, you just left off the shore. And so 97 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 2: just a little note because I didn't understand this until 98 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 2: I finally just went and looked it up. Like Leicester 99 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 2: is the main town, the county seat, if you will, 100 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 2: of the larger county of Leicestershire. So when there's a 101 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 2: suffix of shire on the end of a town name, 102 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,720 Speaker 2: that refers to the county and the town is usually 103 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 2: the biggest town or the main town in that county. 104 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: Finally clear that up. So in those areas, this is 105 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: where the Texas are artisans and you know there were workers. 106 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: They were crafts people, trades people. They went through sort 107 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:57,600 Speaker 1: of that traditional route where you're an apprentice you learn 108 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:02,159 Speaker 1: the craft. They had these robust trade unions and guilds 109 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 1: that made sure the quality of the worker was up 110 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: to snuff, the quality of the product and the materials 111 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 1: were all up to snuff, and they had this good 112 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: deal going with the merchant class up to that point 113 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:19,280 Speaker 1: where these wealthy merchants basically funded the operations and then 114 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: split the profits. They would say, here, we're going to 115 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: put a loom in your house. These hand looms aren't 116 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: too huge, it can fit in your barn. We're going 117 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: to give you some good, high quality materials to spin, 118 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: and we'll split the profits in a way that works 119 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: for both of us. And they had a good life. 120 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,119 Speaker 1: They were like working three or four days a week 121 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: at home and like, you know, making textiles and earning 122 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: a good living. 123 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. So, And there was a quote from a guy 124 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 2: named William Gardner who was a stocking maker at the time, 125 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 2: which was a huge industry right at the beginning or 126 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,919 Speaker 2: up until the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, and he 127 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 2: said the year was checkered with holidays, wakes, which are 128 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 2: festivals held non our patron saints, and fairs. It was 129 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 2: not one dull round of labor, and like it was 130 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 2: just a much more leisurely life than what was about 131 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 2: to come. And the thing that's so gripping about the 132 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 2: beginning of the Industrial Revolution and specifically the initial disruption 133 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 2: in the textile industry is that it happened overnight. I 134 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 2: mean we're talking in the span of like maybe ten twelve, 135 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 2: fifteen years. People went from they just worked at home 136 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 2: three or four days a week to having to work 137 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 2: twelve to thirteen hour days, seven days a week in 138 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 2: a factory just to make less money than they had 139 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 2: been making before at home. 140 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. And the other thing too, was this wasn't like 141 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: the beginning of automation. There had been automation and textile 142 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: manufacturing for a little while at this point. But and 143 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: this is very key, Queen Elizabeth one saw the writing 144 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: on the wall way back in the day and said, hey, 145 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: William Lee, you want a patent for this machine. You 146 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 1: can't have one because that's going to put too many 147 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: people out of work. So it's very interesting that, you know, 148 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: long before this happened, you know, with the Luddites, Queen 149 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: Elizabeth the first like saw what was coming. 150 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was pretty precient for sure. And so so yes, 151 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 2: that's a big misconception. People are like, these machines just 152 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 2: came up out of nowhere and all of a sudden 153 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 2: it just disrupted everything. No, the machines have been there 154 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 2: for hundreds of years. What changed was the way that 155 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 2: the machines were used and that they were improved along 156 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 2: the way. Like the machine that William Lee invented in 157 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 2: fifteen eighty compared to the machines that were being used 158 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,959 Speaker 2: in seventeen eighty or eighteen hundred or eighteen ten were 159 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 2: pretty different. The ones that came later were much much better. 160 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 2: And that there were a bunch of different machines that 161 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 2: were used in the weaving textile creation process that had 162 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 2: all become improved enough that you could put them all 163 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,839 Speaker 2: together and have and create a mill. That was a 164 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 2: that was part one of why this all kind of 165 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:03,439 Speaker 2: happened at the time that it did. 166 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know, if you have a factory, 167 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: it can't just be the machine that makes the thing. 168 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: You need all the other machines to automate that process 169 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: as well if you want a really efficient system. And 170 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:17,679 Speaker 1: so that's what happened. One of the other things that 171 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: happened to kind of you know, and again we keep 172 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 1: saying steamroll or steam power, but this thing was full 173 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: and full steam ahead when Adams when Adam Smith wrote 174 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 1: a book in seventeen seventy six called an inquiry into 175 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: the nature and causes of the Wealth of Nations, No 176 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,959 Speaker 1: Colon No. And we've talked a lot about Adam Smith 177 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 1: on the show, and he was the guy that basically said, Hey, 178 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: you know what, free markets the way to go. Laissez 179 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: faire economics is a way to go. Let people stay 180 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 1: out of things, Let the market work it out, Let 181 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,839 Speaker 1: the manufacturers and the business owners work it out with 182 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 1: the workers and the merchant class like, why are you 183 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:02,079 Speaker 1: splitting all these profits? Like you should be keeping the 184 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:04,599 Speaker 1: lion's share of this stuff. And the merchant class was like, 185 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: I love this book. 186 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:07,959 Speaker 2: Yeah. And to be fair to Adam Smith, like he 187 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 2: wasn't advocating for workers to get completely screwed over. His 188 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 2: arguments and his ideas and his theory of free market 189 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 2: competition were interpreted in a way by the merchant class 190 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:26,200 Speaker 2: to mean that they should be self interested and maximize 191 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 2: profits as much as they could. He wasn't necessarily expressly 192 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 2: saying that. He almost seems to have been a little naive, 193 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 2: or at the very least, he didn't predict the way 194 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 2: that his theory would be used. 195 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: I think, oh, I mean, I think that's exactly the 196 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: thing was he thought. When he was saying it'll work 197 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: itself out, he wasn't saying to the benefit of few 198 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: and the detriment of many. He was saying, they'll all 199 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: just kind of like, as we will see that England did. 200 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:55,719 Speaker 1: They were kind of like, hey, you guys will work 201 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: this out and we should just stay out of it, 202 00:10:57,880 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: and I'm sure you'll come to a fair agreement. 203 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:01,559 Speaker 2: Yeah. So kind of I guess, kind of like the 204 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 2: pendulum's going to swing this way, and then they'll swing 205 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 2: back that way and that way, and they'll finally just 206 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 2: settle in the middle. But the pendulum ended up swinging 207 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 2: one way toward owners management capital and just got stuck 208 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 2: their mid air and has been there ever since. 209 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a pendulum. What do you call a pendulum 210 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: that doesn't swing anymore? Sounds like a riddle. Okay, So 211 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: we got to stick now. 212 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,079 Speaker 2: So there was a third factor too, and that was 213 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,719 Speaker 2: the economic background of England. And at the turn of 214 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 2: the nineteenth century it was in a really big recession 215 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 2: at the time. 216 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, they had been at war with Napoleon for a 217 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: long time. That's going to drain your you know, your 218 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: resources as a nation. And then they also because they 219 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: were at war with France, had blockades against each other, 220 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 1: but shut down a big trade partner. Those markets that 221 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: were open to those merchants in England were suddenly closed 222 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: and it hit everyone across the board in England like 223 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: there was like families were going hungry for the first 224 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: time in a long time. 225 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, people who had been able to escape you know, 226 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 2: previous recessions were getting hit hard. So the reason that 227 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 2: this is important is that, first of all, now you 228 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 2: have desperate workers who are in a situation that they 229 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 2: need help, which puts them in a disadvantage. And then 230 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 2: at the same time, you also have a good reason, 231 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 2: especially now that everyone's read the Wealth of Nations, for 232 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 2: the owners of these looms, what were the merchant class 233 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 2: and are about to become the first industrialists, They have 234 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 2: a good reason to replace workers with automated machines. Because 235 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 2: profits are starting to dwindle. You want to maximize profits. 236 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 2: So that's a really great way to do it. Replace 237 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:45,439 Speaker 2: a bunch of people who you have to pay like 238 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 2: a fair wage to with some machines that you just 239 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 2: pay for upfront and then hire some teenager to make 240 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 2: sure it keeps running and pay them peanuts for doing so. 241 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: Boy, this was really the beginning of the downfall of everything. 242 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: Is this is the beginning of Hey man, this stuff's 243 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:05,719 Speaker 1: not going to be as good, but who cares. We 244 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,199 Speaker 1: can make it for cheap, and we can sell it 245 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: for cheaper, and if they wear out, people can just 246 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 1: buy another cheap version of it that will make It's 247 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: like this was the beginning of the drop of in 248 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,079 Speaker 1: craftsmanship and quality and everything. 249 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,479 Speaker 2: I think that's why I find this period so fascinating, 250 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 2: because our modern world was created like here in this 251 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 2: like decade actually just a few years really, And it's 252 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 2: funny that you say the quality of goods went down, 253 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 2: because I've seen more than once it argued that the 254 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:39,079 Speaker 2: thing that really sparked the Luddite movement was not the 255 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:41,559 Speaker 2: new technology, was not the unfair treatment, was not the 256 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 2: poor wages. It was the decline in the quality of 257 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 2: what was being produced. What formerly like socks essentially stockings, 258 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 2: what had been produced before with great craftsmanship and sold 259 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 2: at a fair price, was now being made really cheaply 260 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 2: and sold cheaply. And that that's what really set off 261 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 2: the people who were in the text industry to basically riot. 262 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: Later on, Yeah, I mean what it did was it 263 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: put them in a position where they were, you know, 264 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: if you wanted to stay out of that and remain 265 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,959 Speaker 1: because it's not like every single small you know business 266 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: textile crafts person went out of business overnight, like they 267 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: were like I could keep this open, like I actually 268 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: own my own loom, but now I have to, you know, 269 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: use cheaper goods and sell them cheaper if I want 270 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 1: to keep up, or you know, just give up and 271 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: go work for them. And neither one of those were 272 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: good prospects. 273 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 2: No, no, because there were zero regulations at the outset 274 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 2: of this, so the mill owners just did whatever they 275 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 2: wanted and you could either go out on the street 276 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 2: and starve, or you could come work for me under 277 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 2: my terms. And so the work in the mills was 278 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 2: really difficult. They kept it really damp in there, so 279 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 2: tuberculosis would run rampant and kill a bunch of people. 280 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 2: The fabric, like little parties of fabric could give you 281 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 2: long damage. The machines all together were really loud, so 282 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 2: they could give you hearing damage. And the machines were 283 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 2: really dangerous too, like people would lose their lives, including children. 284 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 2: That again, we're working thirteen fourteen hour days, seven days 285 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 2: a week at the mill. 286 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, and they didn't need those artisans anymore because they 287 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: could train a seventeen year old to run these automated 288 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: you know, the automated machinery. And this was like, you know, 289 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: this was the birth of capitalism. When quality went down, 290 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: prices went down, Fewer and fewer workers getting paid less 291 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 1: for more work, and the people that own the joint 292 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: getting rich. 293 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 2: Right. But I think for those of us alive today, 294 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 2: because capitalism was birth this way, a lot of people 295 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 2: are like, well, capitalism doesn't work, it's inherently exploitive. That's 296 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 2: not true. It was just born that way. It doesn't 297 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 2: have to be that way, but it was born that way, 298 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 2: and it was allowed to remain that way and grow 299 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 2: up that way, so that it's just so commonplace now 300 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 2: that people think like that's the only way it can be. 301 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 2: And I firmly believe that there's an equitable way to 302 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 2: do capitalism. Ye're just not doing it. That that's what 303 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 2: the issue is, and that that's this is where that started. 304 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, that chip has sailed, my friend that I is 305 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: not moving disagree. Oh, you think there's going to be 306 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: a big change in that. 307 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 2: I think, Yeah, I think there can be. I'm not 308 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 2: saying there definitely will be, but I think that there's 309 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 2: there's the potential for it. Sure, I don't think it's 310 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 2: completely it's just going to be that way forever. Not necessarily. 311 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 2: It could be, but I don't think that is definitely 312 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 2: going to be. That's my take. 313 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: All Right, Well, I admire you're optimism. So shall we 314 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: take a break. Yeah, all right, all right. One thing 315 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: that we mentioned in act one, uh, you like that? 316 00:16:58,400 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: Fancying this thing up a little bit? 317 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 2: I forgot to introduced the gun that goes off in 318 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 2: Act three, That's right. You know what I found out 319 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 2: who that was? I was Chekhov that said that. 320 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, you finally found that out. 321 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 2: Sure, I thought it was you. 322 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: No, Are you serious? You thought that was me? 323 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 2: No. I knew it was kind of like a trope, 324 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 2: but I didn't know that Chekhov had come up with it. 325 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 2: I guess I'm not so familiar with nineteenth century plays 326 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 2: as you. 327 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: Well, you probably never took drama class or dumb English 328 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 1: classes where you read dramas. Well. 329 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 2: What's said is, I was they tried and true drama 330 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:36,639 Speaker 2: kid in high school. So are you really Yeah, we 331 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,719 Speaker 2: just didn't do any Chekhov. It was all slapstick comedy 332 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 2: in my high school. 333 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: Well, if the rubber chicken is introduced in act one. 334 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:47,880 Speaker 2: It comes back to life and kills everyone in act three. 335 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 1: All right, where was I? Okay? Act one when we 336 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: spoke of the misconception that Luddites are afraid of technology, 337 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: and I hinted a little further about what I'm going 338 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:07,880 Speaker 1: to say now, which is they tried to They tried 339 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 1: to work it out. They weren't like, oh my gosh, 340 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 1: industrialization's happening. We need to fight it tooth and nail. 341 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: They were more like, hey, it looks like this is happening, 342 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 1: so let's uh, you know, there's gonna be a man 343 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 1: one day named Josh Clark who will believe that this 344 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: can still happen. We want to make it fair for everyone, 345 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 1: so like, we'll do this, We'll do this work, give 346 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: us a minimum wage, make these working conditions safe, maybe 347 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 1: tax these goods to create these pensions for people that 348 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 1: you're definitely putting out of work, and let's like just 349 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: roll this out slowly. Let's not just go full steam 350 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: ahead here and give people time to like learn how 351 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: to do something else, and they went nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. 352 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's just so contrary to what people think 353 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 2: of as the Ludites today. I mean, if you even 354 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 2: know about the lud Heights beyond you know, the modern 355 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 2: use of the word, that there was an actual group, 356 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 2: you probably still don't think that they were a reasonable group. 357 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 2: That's not exactly what they're known for because they broke 358 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 2: a bunch of machines, but that was exactly their initial response. 359 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:10,680 Speaker 2: They wanted in, but they wanted in fairly, and so, 360 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 2: like you said, the responses to the request were no, no, no, 361 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 2: no no. And it wasn't just the factory and mill 362 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 2: owners that were saying no. The government was also saying no. 363 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 2: And essentially, when the workers went to Parliament, when some 364 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 2: labor friendly parliamentarians MPs tried to get legislation passed that 365 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 2: kind of helped workers be treated more fairly, it just 366 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 2: did not pass. And the idea was, the reasoning was 367 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 2: among parliament that anything we would do would just screw 368 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 2: things up, like any regulations we create are just going 369 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 2: to hamper business, maybe put business people out of business. 370 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 2: Their employees are going to be out on the street. 371 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 2: And so a job where you're exploited is preferable to 372 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 2: no job at all. And since any meddling we might 373 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,360 Speaker 2: do will will possibly cause you to lose your job, 374 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 2: we're just not going to get involved. 375 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, but they did get involved, but they got involved 376 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 1: for the other side, Yeah, big time. In seventeen ninety nine, 377 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: they passed the Combination Acts, which outlawed the trade gills 378 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:23,880 Speaker 1: that had kept them, you know, protected up into that point. 379 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 1: It stopped them from collective bargaining. It outlawed strikes, so 380 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 1: they took away basically any tool they would have to 381 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: you know, get fair treatment in better wages. And this 382 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 1: is another key point too, was they had had machines 383 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 1: before we talked about that Queen Elizabeth, you know, not 384 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: granting the patent, but the machines were still around since 385 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 1: the mid seventeen hundreds, and some of those machines had 386 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:54,880 Speaker 1: been broken in the past in protest. But they augmented 387 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,239 Speaker 1: this law basically on the books that said, hey, if 388 00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: you start up with that stuff again, you're going to 389 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 1: to go to the gallows and be hanged in front 390 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:03,400 Speaker 1: of the town. 391 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,919 Speaker 2: Yeah. So just to kind of put that into perspective today. 392 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 2: Imagine if hacking carried the death penalty, that's kind of 393 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 2: akin to what it was like, but even more simplified 394 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 2: than that. It'd be more like breaking the computer that 395 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 2: your employer gave you when you were hired, like I'm perfecting. 396 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 1: Or going into an apple store with a crowbar. 397 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,199 Speaker 2: But imagine that that carried the death penalty. So when 398 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 2: you put all of that together, the government Parliament was 399 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 2: essentially saying, get to work, and whatever the mill owners 400 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 2: tell you to do, you're going to do it, and 401 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 2: if you try to resist, you got us to deal with. 402 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:45,640 Speaker 2: That's the way things are. That's essentially what Parliament said. 403 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 2: As the blood heites and the textile workers who would 404 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 2: become ludites, we're trying to approach us from a reasonable manner. 405 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, And that started, you know, a couple of 406 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,640 Speaker 1: years of what thees are known for for busting these 407 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 1: machines up and and more, which we'll get to, but 408 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: you know, they pointed to the previous you know, a 409 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,239 Speaker 1: couple of hundred years earlier, when they had already been 410 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 1: breaking machines, and that stuff happened, But it just kind 411 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: of came and went. The Ludites were organized. There were 412 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: a lot more of them. They were super coordinated. One 413 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: historian that you found said that you know, talked about 414 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,439 Speaker 1: how well branded they were because they were they were 415 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 1: known as something. They were known as Luddites, ironically leaderless, 416 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 1: even though supposedly this what by all accounts is an 417 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: urban legend named ned Lud was their leader. 418 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, so just a little on ned Lud. It's it's 419 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 2: pretty clear that ned Lud, especially as leader of the Luddites, 420 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 2: never existed. He was fictitious. It's possible that there was 421 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 2: somebody named Edward Ludlam who was the real life person 422 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 2: that ned Lud became based on. But the story of 423 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 2: the whole thing, the story of ned Luod, is that 424 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 2: in seventeen seventy nine, a young I think he was 425 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 2: a weaver named ned Lud was either told by his 426 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 2: father or boss whoever he was working for at the 427 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 2: time to tighten his needles or square his needles which 428 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 2: means titan his weave, or he was told to create cheaper, 429 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 2: cheaper product faster. Either way, in a fit of rage, 430 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 2: he broke his loom, he broke the machine that he 431 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 2: was working on, and protest so This was seventeen seventy nine, 432 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 2: and by the time that eighteen eleven rolls around, which 433 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 2: is when the Ludites really started to rise up, ned 434 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 2: Lud was kind of like this catch all in the 435 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 2: textile community. Anytime something happened to a loom, it broke. 436 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 2: It was purposely broken. It was just kind of like 437 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 2: Ned Luod did it. You're gonna hate this analogy, so 438 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 2: I'm sorry in advance, but it was kind of like 439 00:23:55,920 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 2: the family Circus kids. I ton't know. Yeah, oh wow, 440 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,399 Speaker 2: that was surprising. I like my teeth were clenched waiting 441 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:05,400 Speaker 2: for your response. 442 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I couldn't remember, because there are other examples of that, 443 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: of like a made up person of like so and 444 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: so did it that weren't even real people. I just 445 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: can't think of them. So family Circus is the perfect analogy. 446 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 2: Okay, great, well, thank you. Wow, I was not expecting this. 447 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:22,159 Speaker 2: I'm going to have to take up break here for 448 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 2: a second. 449 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I hate the Family Circus. Still, you didn't 450 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: win me over, okay, but I love the ref Everything's 451 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,439 Speaker 1: back to normal good. But regardless, ned Lud was kind 452 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: of this urban legend went by, you know, King Lud 453 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: Captain lud General lud But all of this was the 454 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: idea that he was the leader of the Ludites when 455 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,440 Speaker 1: there was no clear leader. I mean, you know, in 456 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,719 Speaker 1: different places, depending where it was taking place. There were 457 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,440 Speaker 1: of course people who might have led the charge that 458 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: night or for that operation, but there was no like 459 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 1: central leader. Yet they remained like highly organized. 460 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, like the Ludites weren't act actual group 461 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 2: that spread across the Midlands and into Yorkshire from eighteen 462 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 2: eleven to eighteen thirteen. Some people say eighteen sixteen because 463 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 2: there was another uprising that year, but really the Blood 464 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,360 Speaker 2: Height Revolution took place from eighteen eleven to eighteen thirteen, 465 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:19,640 Speaker 2: and there it was a group of people of textile 466 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,400 Speaker 2: workers who had sworn a secret oath to this organization. 467 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 2: But like you said, it was decentralized. There was no Nedlood. 468 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 2: But they were so organized that the British government and 469 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 2: the officials and the mill owners who were trying to 470 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 2: break up this organization believed that there very much was 471 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,199 Speaker 2: a Nedlood. There had to be a Nedlood because who 472 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 2: else was leading these people and stirring up unrest that 473 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 2: was spreading across the northern part of the country. 474 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:47,479 Speaker 1: So I don't even think we mentioned like the very 475 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 1: first thing that happened, that was in March of eighteen eleven, 476 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: when a group of you know, these these what would 477 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: be known as Luddites a little bit later on, took 478 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,160 Speaker 1: to the streets in protests of of their pay, their 479 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: working conditions. The British troops came in, broke it up, 480 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: and they dispersed, but they came back later that night, 481 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 1: and that was the first night of this new like, hey, 482 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,719 Speaker 1: let's break everything. They went to a mill, they trashed 483 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: everything inside and that was sort of the first rubber 484 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 1: chicken fired in this new round of busting stuff up. 485 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:27,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was March. The next big thing that happened 486 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,640 Speaker 2: was in November there was a group of Luodites who 487 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 2: attacked the home of Edward Hollingsworth, who was an owner 488 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 2: of several automatic looms. He was, I guess kind of 489 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 2: like a craftsman merchant, all rolled into one. The reason 490 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 2: that he was targeted is because he was using those 491 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 2: looms to make these new cheap stockings that had just 492 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 2: completely undermined the entire stocking trade. And so they broke 493 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 2: all of the looms in the guy's house and left, 494 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 2: and Edward Hollingsworth was like, well, at least they didn't 495 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 2: burn my house down. And then a week later the 496 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 2: blood Heites came back and burned his house down. 497 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: Yeah that was Yeah, it seemed like a little much, 498 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: but yeah, it was an avengeful act that happened because 499 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: they were mad. 500 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so we should say there's like a lot 501 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 2: of attacks like this between eighteen eleven and eighteen thirteen. 502 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 2: And it all started in Nottingham, sure, in Nottingham specifically, 503 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 2: and it just kind of spread. It was a great 504 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:34,440 Speaker 2: idea among these pent up, angry textile workers whose entire 505 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,160 Speaker 2: worlds had just been upended. So it spread very, very easily, 506 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 2: and it was I think in a December issue of 507 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 2: the Nottingham Review that the story of ned Blood was told. 508 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 2: And that's when they became known as the Luodites. And 509 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,159 Speaker 2: so these textile workers, like I said, they swore a 510 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 2: secret oath to protect this organization with their lives, and 511 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,360 Speaker 2: in doing so, they swore an allegiance to, like you said, 512 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:04,120 Speaker 2: Kinglood General Blood, and of course the textall workers knew 513 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 2: that ned Blood didn't exist, and to kind of underscore that, 514 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 2: they placed his base of operations in Sherwood Forest in Nottingham, 515 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 2: which probably sounds familiar to anybody who's seen any version 516 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 2: of Robin Hood. 517 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: Yes, very cheeky thing to do, for sure. One of 518 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: the other misconceptions is that the Luddites were so angry 519 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,439 Speaker 1: that they just trashed everything with reckless abandoned and went 520 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: after everyone and tried to wreck all these factories. That 521 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: wasn't the case. They were very targeted. Anyone that was 522 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 1: known to be like a good boss and a good 523 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: factory owner who treated their employees more fairly. They did 524 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: not go and trash their factory. The people who were 525 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: known to be especially bad and egregious violators of workers' rights, 526 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: they were targeted. But they even got letters beforehand a 527 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: lot of times that were like, hey, you got a 528 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: chance here to change things. Otherwise next week we're gonna 529 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: trash your factory or move those things out of there, 530 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: make some changes, or it's happening, and they would not 531 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 1: do that. Sometimes they would try and move their machinery 532 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: out of there. But because these were kind of working 533 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: class heroes, they would get tipped off on when these 534 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 1: caravans were doing that, and so in the middle of 535 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: the night. They would intercept these caravans and you get 536 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: them out there instead of in the factory. 537 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 2: I just see the mill owners trying to remove their 538 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 2: looms in the middle of the night, like Otho trying 539 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 2: to escape and Beetlejuice. 540 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: Have you seen the new trailer yet for the new one? 541 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 2: No? And I don't want to see it. I just 542 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 2: want to go into that movie completely unaware of everything. 543 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 1: Well you should, I mean, it looks like Beetlejuice. I 544 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: hope it didn't spoil it. 545 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 2: Yes you did, you didn't, That's fine, but I yeah, 546 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 2: I'm very excited about seeing that. No. 547 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: Same here. I wanted to see that Broadway play but 548 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 1: it went away, did it? Yeah? It was supposed to 549 00:29:58,400 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 1: be really good. So I don't know if it just 550 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: had its and stopped or what. 551 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 2: I'll bet it's playing in New Mexico somewhere. 552 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 1: Well, I think there is a traveling version, so maybe 553 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: it'll come through or New Mexico. So they were breaking 554 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: looms at a rate of about one hundred and seventy 555 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: five a month. It's got very costly for you know, 556 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: the machinery replacement costs of productivity not happening not, you know, 557 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 1: putting out these stockings and socks and things. And in 558 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: eighteen twelve things really really changed for the scarier and 559 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 1: maybe that's a good time for another break. 560 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 2: Sure I was not expecting that, but yes. 561 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 1: All right, we'll keep everyone on the edge of their 562 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: stockings and we'll be right. 563 00:30:42,480 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 2: Back, okay, Chuck. So you said eighteen twelve was kind 564 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 2: of like a watershed year, and definitely was. Things got 565 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 2: much more violent. Essentially, the Luddites and the Ludite movement 566 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,719 Speaker 2: as it was spreading across the Midlands and into Yorkshire, 567 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 2: became engaged in all at war with mill owners. And 568 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 2: it could be you know, a handful of them wearing 569 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 2: masks and carrying swords and muskets that would attack, you know, 570 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 2: someone's house and break all their looms. It could be 571 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 2: two thousand of them, like what happened in one attack 572 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 2: in March, I believe, or it could be a couple 573 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 2: of hundreds. One of the most famous was called the 574 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 2: Battle of Rofold's Mill in Huddersfield in West Yorkshire, and 575 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 2: there were between one hundred and two hundred, depending on 576 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 2: who you ask, former workers of that mill who stormed 577 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 2: it one night and it just got super violent. 578 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, because these owners had had enough, they start hiring 579 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: armed guards like mercenaries basically to stand by and watch 580 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 1: with their rifles. And there was a gun battle too. 581 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 1: I believe two of the Luddites were shot. They later died. 582 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: They retaliated. They assassinated William Horsefall, which was a really 583 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: sort of ardent anti Ludite. He had talked about riding 584 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 1: up to his saddle Gerson Ludite blood, and so they 585 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 1: went after him assassinated him in a bar. I think 586 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 1: he ended up dying a couple of days later. But 587 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 1: they shot him in the thighs, the hip, and the testicles, 588 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: and not that that's funny. I don't know why I laughed, 589 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 1: but it just seemed like a particularly egregious thing to do. 590 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: And they took him back to the bar where he 591 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 1: was had been spouting off and drinking, and he died 592 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 1: there a couple of days later. 593 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,720 Speaker 2: Something ironic about that is that Horsefall when he left 594 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 2: that bar initially before he got shot, he had just 595 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 2: bought a round of drinks for some of his workers. Yeah, 596 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 2: talk about irony. 597 00:32:58,520 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. 598 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 2: One other thing to know about the Luodites is that 599 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 2: their secret was not only kept by them, but by 600 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 2: the communities that they came from. You might think like, Okay, 601 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 2: these guys are burning down mills and breaking machines, they're 602 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 2: putting people out of work, and that's absolutely true. They 603 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 2: also would go into people's homes and requisition weapons to 604 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 2: use for raids, and yet almost universally they were beloved 605 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 2: and kept secret by the local communities. And this evidenced 606 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,719 Speaker 2: by the army of spies that the British government sent 607 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 2: in to try to break up this movement. Who could 608 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 2: get nowhere? They got nothing, and as a matter of fact, 609 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 2: the spies started reporting back that there was such a 610 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 2: person as ned Luod. They got so their their efforts 611 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 2: were just that frustrated. 612 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, so they've sent in spies, they're getting nowhere. There's 613 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 1: actual bloodshed happening now at a quicker rate, and so 614 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 1: they're like, we got to do something. We have to 615 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:59,560 Speaker 1: get involved militarily, and they sent in troops, initially just 616 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 1: a sort of quiet things down. They had fourteen thousand 617 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: troops station in the Midlands, in Yorkshire. They had more 618 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,279 Speaker 1: people stationed there than they had fighting the War of 619 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:10,359 Speaker 1: Napoleon at the time. 620 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 2: That's crazy. 621 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,400 Speaker 1: They you know, they had some sort of effect, but 622 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: they didn't completely like break the movement up. And so 623 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 1: they finally said, all right, remember that death penalty stipulation 624 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,839 Speaker 1: we put in there about going into the apple store 625 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 1: with a crowbar. We're going to start enforcing that. And 626 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 1: they started hanging dozens of Luddites in public after hasty trials, 627 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:41,400 Speaker 1: sometimes even teenagers, and that was what really got everyone's 628 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,719 Speaker 1: attention that they could be put to death for this. 629 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, there was one particularly grim day in Lancashire where 630 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:52,239 Speaker 2: I think they hanged fourteen Bloodites, including, like you said, 631 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,719 Speaker 2: a teenager, a sixteen year old who'd only acted as 632 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 2: a lookout for one of the raids. And they were 633 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 2: clearly making an example out of these people. These were 634 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,720 Speaker 2: very public trials, very public hangings. They built special gallows 635 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:06,879 Speaker 2: so they could hang multiple people at the same time, 636 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 2: like they were The British government was saying like, we're 637 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 2: just gonna keep doing this. We're going to kill you 638 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,439 Speaker 2: if we catch you, so you better stop, and that's 639 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 2: what finally worked. Other people, by the way, were transported 640 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:21,839 Speaker 2: to Australia, sometimes for life. They would just take them 641 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,839 Speaker 2: there and be like you're Australia. Now good for them, right, 642 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 2: all of that put together, the fact that now the 643 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,799 Speaker 2: one remaining tool they had in their toolbox to try 644 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,400 Speaker 2: to fight for equal treatment or at least better treatment 645 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 2: at work was now like they would get the death 646 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 2: penalty for that. That finally broke up the Light eight 647 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 2: movement around eighteen thirteen. 648 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, and they had about another dozen years of you know, 649 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,840 Speaker 1: pretty bad treatment until finally there was a bit of 650 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,680 Speaker 1: a wake up call for the British government and in 651 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 1: eighteen twenty four Parliament said, you know what, maybe unions 652 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,759 Speaker 1: are a decent idea after all, they repeal that ban 653 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,600 Speaker 1: on unions. But you know, like I said, that ship 654 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 1: at sail, there was no putting the genie back into 655 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,440 Speaker 1: the bottle at this point. And the you know, like 656 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 1: we mentioned a few times, the popular sort of view 657 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 1: of Luddites these days is not entirely right. They didn't 658 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 1: hate the technology. They tried to work things out in 659 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,520 Speaker 1: a fair way. They tried to stand up for workers' 660 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 1: rights very early on. And it seems like a lot 661 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:32,440 Speaker 1: of sort of the rewriting of that came from a 662 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,719 Speaker 1: novelist and scientist named CP Snow who looks like it 663 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 1: was the first person to kind of cast them as, 664 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,960 Speaker 1: you know, anti technology, which was reinforced again in the 665 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:45,919 Speaker 1: seventies in New Scientists and other publications. 666 00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 2: Yeah so, at least by the seventies, if not earlier, 667 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:55,280 Speaker 2: Ludites were now synonymous with being afraid, usually irrationally afraid 668 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,759 Speaker 2: of technology or the future, or in some cases you 669 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,799 Speaker 2: were anti capitalist is another way to some people use 670 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 2: it right, And that lasted that way for a while 671 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,960 Speaker 2: until Thomas Pinchon, the famous author of Gravity's Rainbow, among others, 672 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,319 Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty four he wrote an essay essentially saying 673 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 2: like I'm not so sure we should scoff at ludites. 674 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:18,320 Speaker 2: He wrote an essay called is it Okay to be 675 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 2: a Luddite and basically said, if you stop and look 676 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,840 Speaker 2: around at the way that technology is going, maybe we 677 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 2: should be a little bit afraid. Maybe we should start 678 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 2: questioning some of this stuff. And in nineteen eighty four 679 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 2: he made a warning about like you really want to 680 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:37,080 Speaker 2: keep your eye on artificial intelligence in eighty four, And 681 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,920 Speaker 2: what's really interesting is around twenty twenty three, I think 682 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 2: there was an author named Brian Merchant who wrote a 683 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 2: book called Blood in the Machine, and he essentially said 684 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,239 Speaker 2: he didn't cite Pinchon. I don't think I haven't read 685 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,879 Speaker 2: the books. Possibly did, But essentially what he was saying 686 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,160 Speaker 2: is that what Pinchon predicted has now come to roost. 687 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:58,520 Speaker 2: That AI is starting to creep closer and closer to this, 688 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 2: creating a world that's even more upended, even more quickly, 689 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,840 Speaker 2: putting even more people out of work than what happened 690 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 2: to the textile workers the ludites at the beginning of 691 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 2: the nineteenth century. 692 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, and he said, and then there shall be a 693 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:17,279 Speaker 1: Justine Bateman who is the new Thomas pinch On. What 694 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,319 Speaker 1: you know, we've talked about it before. She's the actor 695 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 1: Justine Bateman from Family Ties. Of course, she's sort of 696 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:30,440 Speaker 1: the leading voice in Hollywood fighting against you know, AI 697 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:31,960 Speaker 1: destroying Hollywood, gotcha. 698 00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, that's one thing that people are questioning. 699 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 2: I mean, just that when chat GPT came out, it 700 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:43,879 Speaker 2: was like, we know companies that actually fired people. They're like, oh, good, 701 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 2: but can fire you now? First chance? They got right, 702 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:50,440 Speaker 2: So it is worth questioning. And that's what Merchant and 703 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:52,759 Speaker 2: some of these neo Ludites are saying. They're like, we 704 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,319 Speaker 2: should stop and say like Okay, where's this technology going? 705 00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,360 Speaker 2: Who exactly is making this technology that's going to totally 706 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 2: change our world? How can we pret tech people who 707 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,280 Speaker 2: are about to lose their jobs all the same questions 708 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:05,960 Speaker 2: the loatites asked at the beginning of the nineteenth century 709 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 2: and then face the death penalty for trying to do 710 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 2: something about And the most ironic thing, Chuck, the most 711 00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 2: ironic thing of all is the people who are questioning 712 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:18,000 Speaker 2: where artificial intelligence are going are being branded as lotites. 713 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:23,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's our show. We're going to do a 714 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 1: Q and A. 715 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,160 Speaker 2: I know that is that we end live shows, but 716 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,320 Speaker 2: not episodes. But it was just too perfect. 717 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,960 Speaker 1: Many No, that was a very live showy ending. We 718 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,520 Speaker 1: just don't have our traditional handshake afterward. 719 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,080 Speaker 2: We even held for applause for a second we did. 720 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:39,880 Speaker 1: I heard none, So. 721 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:41,719 Speaker 2: I'm taking it you got nothing else, right? 722 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:42,839 Speaker 1: I got nothing else? 723 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:44,800 Speaker 2: All right? Well, if you want to know more about lutites, 724 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,440 Speaker 2: go read about them, read about neo Luddites, read about 725 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:50,520 Speaker 2: everything you can. And since I said that, it's time 726 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:51,359 Speaker 2: for listener mail. 727 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:57,760 Speaker 1: This is from Cash and this is about doctor Browner, 728 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:00,759 Speaker 1: and this is going to include we'll business plug for 729 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,240 Speaker 1: Cash took. Hey, guys, just listen to the Doctor Bronner's 730 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,520 Speaker 1: episode and thought of a use that you guys didn't 731 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,200 Speaker 1: mention and maybe we'd get a kick out of it. 732 00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:13,600 Speaker 1: Is a fantastic insecticidal soap. I run a small gardening 733 00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:17,160 Speaker 1: business in Portland, Maine, one of our favorite towns, that 734 00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,440 Speaker 1: focuses on designing and creating gardens that don't require much 735 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:25,640 Speaker 1: human input and no chemical input. Generally, I don't treat pests, 736 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,960 Speaker 1: and that's even in quotes and let nature run its course. 737 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,760 Speaker 1: But for the particularly tough ones like scale and viburnum 738 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 1: leaf beetle, I treat with Doctor Bronner's diluted with one 739 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 1: six water with a spray bottle, works wonders and has 740 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,920 Speaker 1: no negative ecological impacts. Love the show. You guys are 741 00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:47,560 Speaker 1: a great company on my long days working alone. And hey, 742 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,399 Speaker 1: if you are in Portland, Maine or nearby, check out 743 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:55,000 Speaker 1: Cash at founder Opus Fine Gardens. 744 00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:57,400 Speaker 2: Well thanks a lot, Cash, and we are happy to 745 00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,320 Speaker 2: plug your business. And if you want to be like 746 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,719 Speaker 2: Cash instead, end us an interesting email and plug your 747 00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,279 Speaker 2: business at the same time. We are happy to do that. 748 00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:11,160 Speaker 2: Email us at Stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com Stuff 749 00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,160 Speaker 2: you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. 750 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,839 Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 751 00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:19,960 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.