Speaker 1: Hey guys, Steve here, you are listening to one of
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Speaker 1: understand you never know stories of things we simply don't
Speaker 1: know the answer too. Well. Hi there, I'm Steve, but
Speaker 1: three of us in a room and you got Thinking Sideways,
Speaker 1: the podcast show where we we tend to look at
Speaker 1: things they don't really have a clear answer, and then
Speaker 1: we try to figure them out and once again, believe
Speaker 1: it or not, we've got another one. Anybody else surprised. No,
Speaker 1: not really. You wouldn't have called this meeting unless you
Speaker 1: had something right in the studio. Yes, it's very very true. Well,
Speaker 1: this week I've got quite an interesting one that I
Speaker 1: want to go over, which is v G in uh
Speaker 1: late and object was spotted in space coming towards our planet.
Speaker 1: It was initially described as a near Earth object, which
Speaker 1: is what a lot of asteroids and stuff are called.
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, but we don't know if it's actually
Speaker 1: going to hit us or just kind of glad it's by.
Speaker 1: Did you destroy the Earth? Obviously not. It was spotted
Speaker 1: by a guy named Jim Scotty, and Mr Scotty was
Speaker 1: tracking this angeo, as they referred to him, with space Watch,
Speaker 1: which is a telescope in kit Peak National Observatory which
Speaker 1: is in Arizona, uh. And it was kind of he
Speaker 1: founded by accident, to be quite honest. Evidently the range
Speaker 1: that they look at he had for some reasons at
Speaker 1: the telescope lower than normal and just happened to catch
Speaker 1: this thing coming up. My understanding of what is is
Speaker 1: that actually they used these software to pick out anomalous
Speaker 1: things that are moving against the background. So he actually
Speaker 1: it wasn't a telescope, but the software he set the
Speaker 1: range for the software that wut my head around it.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of science e stuff and this one,
Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, and I've been struggling through this for
Speaker 1: weeks to get my head around it. But thank you, Joe,
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. So he spots this thing, and like
Speaker 1: I said, he called it an n e O and
Speaker 1: they named v G and they didn't know what it was,
Speaker 1: but they thought it was gonna it was gonna hit
Speaker 1: the planet. When it was first spotted, this thing was
Speaker 1: point zero zero three one AU away from the Earth,
Speaker 1: and AU is an astronomical unit. Okay, Like I said,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of science in this one. Here's how
Speaker 1: they make these generalizations so that it's not a gazillion
Speaker 1: gazillion gazillion miles. They say, what's the distance from the
Speaker 1: Earth to the Sun on average, and that's one unit.
Speaker 1: So when you break that down, how closes it. It
Speaker 1: was point zero zero three one astronomical units, which means
Speaker 1: it's you know, three hundreds of the distance from the
Speaker 1: Earth or from the Earth to the Sun. The way
Speaker 1: that I got yeah, yeah, it was. It was super
Speaker 1: far away. Actually, it was Uh, it was a proximately
Speaker 1: two million, forty six thousand miles away, so just as
Speaker 1: hard to say, and then approaching us, yes, and approaching us.
Speaker 1: But he figured it was an asteroid. But as he
Speaker 1: started watching this thing, he noticed that it was winking,
Speaker 1: as they say, meaning that every seven and a half
Speaker 1: minutes it would flash and then go dark, and then
Speaker 1: flash and go dark. So time goes by, and this
Speaker 1: thing is doing what an asteroid wouldn't normally do because
Speaker 1: if you think about something that's spherical in space, it
Speaker 1: should have light on it on a relatively consistent basis,
Speaker 1: not turning on, turning off. But this thing was doing that,
Speaker 1: which is weird. When they did the analysis of it,
Speaker 1: they figured out this thing was approximately ten ms across,
Speaker 1: so about thirty ft across, which isn't really big, especially
Speaker 1: for space. Yeah, it's it's some something in space. It's
Speaker 1: not that big. Okay, we can we can deal with that.
Speaker 1: And they would classify it as a S class meteor
Speaker 1: based on its size. If it was larger than that,
Speaker 1: I guess it was a C class, but S class
Speaker 1: meteors don't have this reflective quality to them. Plus I
Speaker 1: think it's the way their shape is. Are there any
Speaker 1: other examples of S class meteors like famous ones. I'm
Speaker 1: sure there are, but I didn't pull any for my research.
Speaker 1: One thing about the way they guestimated its size is
Speaker 1: by the amount of light it was setting in our direction.
Speaker 1: And that's based on the average reflectivity for your average
Speaker 1: meteor your average meteoroid, and things aren't very reflective, yes,
Speaker 1: in other words, not so. In other words, it's it's
Speaker 1: based on that, on that particular assumption that they made.
Speaker 1: So it could have been five times as large but
Speaker 1: less reflective, that's true, or smaller and more reflection, half
Speaker 1: the size but superf right. But the thing is, the
Speaker 1: reflectivity of it was what caused all the hubbub, because
Speaker 1: it's nature was to reflect light in the same manner
Speaker 1: that a rotating satellite would, in other words, a metallic
Speaker 1: object would. So it's got a dark side, it's got
Speaker 1: facets on it, and so they pick up and they
Speaker 1: all shine the light back at once, and then they
Speaker 1: go dark because it's spun around. So in other words,
Speaker 1: it couldn't be a sphere. It's got to be something
Speaker 1: with some kind of sharp angles. And and actually some
Speaker 1: some meteoroids and asteroids are not actually spherical. A lot
Speaker 1: of them. A lot of them are like just brick
Speaker 1: shaped and they rotate. Yeah. Yeah, this was actually that
Speaker 1: one of the things that I think I was reading
Speaker 1: about in the maybe it was in the research maybe
Speaker 1: when when I was doing some research. But they're talking
Speaker 1: about how a lot of things we call asteroids or
Speaker 1: meteors are actually just big glumps of stuff. It's not
Speaker 1: like one rock, right, it's like a big massive debris
Speaker 1: or whatever. Yeah. The way that gravity affects that then
Speaker 1: is it pulls it into this kind of monolithic structure
Speaker 1: more than a sphere, because you know, when it's rotating,
Speaker 1: it's got like a side that's being pulled more. And
Speaker 1: then it rotates more and there's a side that's being
Speaker 1: pulled more. Like Plato in space, essentially it stretches and
Speaker 1: pulled ye, it moves around. Yeah, so that's I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, that was the thing they were talking about
Speaker 1: that happens sometimes in space. But I don't know that
Speaker 1: that really explains the reflective quality, the more reflective of
Speaker 1: some sides than others, although I guess if you know,
Speaker 1: one side had more whatever kind of rocks that are
Speaker 1: super reflective maybe, but crystalline rock side yeah, or if
Speaker 1: it's got its a is an irregularly shape thing and
Speaker 1: it's got a flat side. That's that when I'm one
Speaker 1: it rotates around suddenly that flat side is illuminated. Word yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: So yeah, there's there's a lot of very simple answers
Speaker 1: for this thing. The one thing that caught everybody off
Speaker 1: guard was the reflectivity and the way that it rotated
Speaker 1: and was akin to a metallic object that wasn't. That
Speaker 1: looked more like it was a pre made shape rather
Speaker 1: than just some ho you know, happened upon shape random
Speaker 1: rocks when it went by. So they found it it,
Speaker 1: like I said, in November of ninety one, and it
Speaker 1: got its closest to or October excuse me, and it
Speaker 1: got closest to the planet in November. They try they
Speaker 1: hit it with radar to try to get some some
Speaker 1: readings off of it or figure a little more out,
Speaker 1: but I'm guessing that there was some kind of interference.
Speaker 1: They didn't get good data from it, and then it
Speaker 1: went on about It's mary Way and is now somewhere.
Speaker 1: It's gone in space on its orbit and we're not
Speaker 1: going to see it again. Until now can you describe
Speaker 1: the orbit of it, because right now I'm picturing that
Speaker 1: it's like a like a Hailey's comment situation where it's
Speaker 1: on some weird kind of you know, mumrangs around the Sun,
Speaker 1: goes out to like Pluto and comes back and situation,
Speaker 1: and you know, we intersect with it once every it is.
Speaker 1: It's on a heliocentric orbit, which means that it is
Speaker 1: rotating around the Sun. And it's also on a orbital
Speaker 1: access that is the same as our planet. So if
Speaker 1: you think about the orbit of the planet around the
Speaker 1: Sun as a plate, we always go the around the
Speaker 1: outside in the center of the plates the Sun. It's
Speaker 1: also on that same orbit. It's just a smidge farther
Speaker 1: out than we are. It's also going slower than we are,
Speaker 1: which is why we won't see it until the Earth
Speaker 1: was going faster, caught up to it and then raced ahead,
Speaker 1: and now we've got to go all the way around
Speaker 1: until we catch up with it again. If you think
Speaker 1: about the way I thought about it is if you've
Speaker 1: ever seen two people on a track running and they're
Speaker 1: running at almost the same speed, but the person in
Speaker 1: the lead is a little faster and it takes them,
Speaker 1: in this case, sixteen and a half loops or revolutions
Speaker 1: of the track to get back to that other person's lap.
Speaker 1: That's that's exactly it. We haven't lapped it again. But
Speaker 1: you know, I believe it's also something that somewhat out
Speaker 1: of the plane of the ecliptics my understanding of it,
Speaker 1: and the ecliptic is a plate that you were talking right,
Speaker 1: If you imagine that as a as a the orbits,
Speaker 1: that's called the ecliptic, and so otherwise we would be
Speaker 1: seeing it probably more often than once a year. We're
Speaker 1: seeing it like once a year, almost the same revolution
Speaker 1: around the Sun as we are just slightly slower, so
Speaker 1: our distance is always growing and until we eventually catch
Speaker 1: up tunes. Yes, now it might be on a slightly
Speaker 1: different plane, but it's essentially the same. So that's my
Speaker 1: first kind of flag I guess is that I and
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know hardly anything about astro physics
Speaker 1: or what you know, whatever we call this space science.
Speaker 1: I don't know anything about, right, you know, intuitively, you
Speaker 1: think if you're going to go on the same access
Speaker 1: as something the size of the planets or the whatever
Speaker 1: bodies are going to be about the same, right that
Speaker 1: they would orbit at the same kind of rate and
Speaker 1: the same distance from the Sun has to not be
Speaker 1: pulled in closer. And you know, I don't know that
Speaker 1: that's true or not. It's just you know, in my
Speaker 1: like little pretty basic understanding of of space, planets get
Speaker 1: bigger as they go away from the Sun, right, not necessarily, yeah,
Speaker 1: but now they have to they generally, given mass, the
Speaker 1: closer it is to the Sun, the faster it will
Speaker 1: have to move. So that's you know, that's my kind
Speaker 1: of thing, is that if this thing is that, if
Speaker 1: it's it's pretty small, it's like across yeah, So so
Speaker 1: for me for it to be in the same orbit
Speaker 1: and to be going about the same speed as us,
Speaker 1: I don't know. It just speaks of like a weird
Speaker 1: mass issue. But you know, I could be wrong. As
Speaker 1: I said, I don't really know anything about this stuff.
Speaker 1: I think that it's it's mostly dependent upon getting caught
Speaker 1: in the orbit of the Sun and our solar system
Speaker 1: and just kind of brushed along if you think about
Speaker 1: there's inertia just keep going. Sure, But I guess the
Speaker 1: thing is right, you have to have a certain amount
Speaker 1: of mass to stay that far out in an orbit
Speaker 1: to not get pulled in not necessarily think about asteroid fields.
Speaker 1: It's more and more like that. It's more like the
Speaker 1: speed of it than anything else. But but if it
Speaker 1: was an object that just sort of like sort of
Speaker 1: wanted it from interstellar space, it took up residents in
Speaker 1: the Solar System, it would be extremely unlikely that it
Speaker 1: would it would adopt I mean it would it would
Speaker 1: probably get start orbiting the Sun, but perfect I'm nearly
Speaker 1: perfectly circular orbit that mimics ours. That's extremely unlikely. And
Speaker 1: that's exactly is we never saw it before. Suddenly this
Speaker 1: thing appears and it looks as if it's not it
Speaker 1: looks as if it was made. It's not a natural formation,
Speaker 1: and we just don't know anything. And that's the weird
Speaker 1: thing about it is nobody really knows what the heck
Speaker 1: this thing is. Uh. And there's there's a good number
Speaker 1: of theories running around about it, and some of them
Speaker 1: I think are plausible and some I don't. And unfortunately
Speaker 1: I've been able to shoot holes in just about every
Speaker 1: one of them. But let's let's run through them. So
Speaker 1: the first one is what Joe was talking about, is
Speaker 1: that it's a random asteroid that just wanders into our
Speaker 1: Solar system and gets caught there is according to some research,
Speaker 1: there's a field of asteroids that are inner Solar System,
Speaker 1: and occasionally some of those do come out of there
Speaker 1: and they come into revolution around the Sun. The problem
Speaker 1: is they're not on the same the same ecliptics. So
Speaker 1: if you think about if you've got you hold the
Speaker 1: plate and that's our orbit around the Sun, and then
Speaker 1: you take another plate, but you rotated several degrees, they're
Speaker 1: at a different angle to each other, so they're not
Speaker 1: in perfect unison going outwards like the planets mostly are
Speaker 1: from us. So that's part of the problem, is that
Speaker 1: those meteors or asteroids wouldn't be able to catch in
Speaker 1: our orbits. It's also you know, it's even conceivable that
Speaker 1: there's that there have been some rocks just left over
Speaker 1: from the formation of the Earth and the Moon, and
Speaker 1: there's that kind of stuff tagging along with us and
Speaker 1: virtually the same orbit as us, but we didn't have
Speaker 1: the technology to detect them until pretty recently. Very true,
Speaker 1: and how how close did it come to us, like
Speaker 1: compared to the Moon, the miles was our million miles
Speaker 1: utter ninety thousand miles, which is about fifty thousand miles
Speaker 1: beyond the orbit of the Moon, so it's close. We
Speaker 1: could have flown out and met it. How we known
Speaker 1: it was the well, so that was gonna be My
Speaker 1: other question is like, why did it get stuck in
Speaker 1: the Sun's orbit but not ours? Right, because it's smaller
Speaker 1: than the Moon and our gravity is pretty dang strong,
Speaker 1: so it's gonna orbit something, and it's like getting that
Speaker 1: close to us. Well, here's the here's the other problem
Speaker 1: with the It's a random bit of space rock. Its
Speaker 1: orbit is a little eccentric. In other words, it's unstable.
Speaker 1: So if you when you look at celestial bodies, you
Speaker 1: look at them in terms of millennia, how long can
Speaker 1: it go? And it's been there for eons and eons,
Speaker 1: this thing is unstable. Based on when we passed it
Speaker 1: nine one, Evidently they detected fluctuations in its orbit, which
Speaker 1: means that the gravitation of the Earth and the Moon
Speaker 1: themselves through it's pitch off a little bit. So in
Speaker 1: the long run, if it's been there forever and ever,
Speaker 1: it should have already hit the Earth or the Moon.
Speaker 1: Because we were gone someplace, messed up it's orbit enough
Speaker 1: by passing it ninety one that we could tell that
Speaker 1: we threw it out a loop a little bit. So
Speaker 1: you know, in that grand scale that we look at
Speaker 1: things in space, we basically should have re ended it all.
Speaker 1: And really, to be fair, I mean, it's close enough
Speaker 1: that even you know, sixteen years before our stuff was
Speaker 1: sophisticated enough that we should have been able to see
Speaker 1: it then too, right, we could have, But you've got
Speaker 1: to remember that sixteen years prior this, nineteen seventy five,
Speaker 1: our science is not that good. Most of what we
Speaker 1: were observing in space was done by the human eye.
Speaker 1: And the sky is a huge area. What is it
Speaker 1: set looks at the sky constantly and they're able to
Speaker 1: watch three. Yeah, but if something passes that close, you
Speaker 1: kind of think, yeah, I think the I think the
Speaker 1: real the real key to that, it's actually finding a
Speaker 1: little bit of objects buzzing around of spaces. It really
Speaker 1: is computers and the signals process. Because there's so much
Speaker 1: up out there, and you know, so you gotta have
Speaker 1: you got It's really hard to detect something that's blinking
Speaker 1: every seven and a half minutes. That's true when you're
Speaker 1: just panning across. Oh there's a bright spot, keep going,
Speaker 1: and then you come back and you don't really realize
Speaker 1: that it's gone or you don't notice it turned back on.
Speaker 1: That's fair, all right, that's fair. So my whole poking
Speaker 1: isn't as effective as yours apparently. Yeah. So anyways, so
Speaker 1: that's the asteroid theories asteroid theory. So the next theory
Speaker 1: is that it is man made space junk. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: like refuse from our everything we've ever put into space.
Speaker 1: Dang near that didn't come crashing back down is still
Speaker 1: up there. Ye yeah, yeah, there's only there's not that
Speaker 1: many things that we that we put into space that
Speaker 1: have actually achieved escape velocity. And so there's not that
Speaker 1: many of those put we know where they're at. It's
Speaker 1: mostly either still in orbit around the planet or it's
Speaker 1: crash back down Earth exactly. So there is a one
Speaker 1: piece of research that I really really liked um and
Speaker 1: it talks about the fact that, yes, if the v
Speaker 1: G is manmade, that would explain the reflective quality of it,
Speaker 1: because it's a chunk of a rocket, it's a flat
Speaker 1: piece and everything we had we put up obviously as
Speaker 1: metallics and it's gonna reflect light and spin. Simple solution.
Speaker 1: So like I said, like we said, there's there's a
Speaker 1: ton of that junk that we just spewed into space
Speaker 1: and it's floating up there. Uh well, if it is
Speaker 1: manmade again, obviously it makes sense that it's gonna wink
Speaker 1: on and off as it spins, because typically they're relatively
Speaker 1: flat shapes or they're around and cylindrical. And so that
Speaker 1: this all makes sense, it simplifies it. I found some
Speaker 1: fantastic research by a guy named Dr Duncan Steel. He's
Speaker 1: an astronomer. He at the time was really a researcher
Speaker 1: at the Anglo Australian Observatory. And yeah, he's a he's
Speaker 1: a research fellow at the University of Adelaide. So this
Speaker 1: guy is he's made his marks. So he's and he's
Speaker 1: known as being very critical of a lot of things.
Speaker 1: He's pragmatic, he doesn't just jump to conclusions. But he
Speaker 1: did a time, he did a bunch of research in
Speaker 1: a bunch of math on and here's what he came
Speaker 1: up with. He calculated the gravitational orbit of and this
Speaker 1: is again with his best guest information from when it
Speaker 1: was first absorbed observed to when we lost it, and
Speaker 1: he tracked that back and he's one of the ones
Speaker 1: that figured out that we're going to see it in
Speaker 1: sixteen and a half years approximately, So he took that
Speaker 1: time scale and he rolled it back, which means that
Speaker 1: it would have gone by us in and it would
Speaker 1: have gone by us in late nineteen fifty eight. So
Speaker 1: if it is space junk that we put up there
Speaker 1: should from one of those two time frames. Okay, Well,
Speaker 1: nothing in the fifties was big enough, and almost every
Speaker 1: piece of junk that we put up there was small,
Speaker 1: and almost every piece of it came right back down
Speaker 1: to the planet. And I get in the late fifties,
Speaker 1: I don't think we ever achieved any escape pity, so again,
Speaker 1: it all came home. So we're pretty sure it can't
Speaker 1: be any of that made John, Yeah, which means seventy
Speaker 1: five we did put up some things, which you know,
Speaker 1: he said, it's possible that it was a part of
Speaker 1: Helios one, which went into orbit in nineteen seventy four,
Speaker 1: and it could be the rocket fragments from that, or
Speaker 1: it could be part of Vera nine, which was the
Speaker 1: rocket from Vera nine which was sent to the probe itself,
Speaker 1: I guess was sent to Venus or out towards Venus
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy five, so we speculated it could have
Speaker 1: been part of that. But the time frame he's saying
Speaker 1: it should have come by us in nineteen seventy four,
Speaker 1: So this doesn't really work out all of these launches.
Speaker 1: Nothing that was big enough went up in nineteen seventy
Speaker 1: four to then get knocked into orbit. Problem. When was
Speaker 1: the last last Apollo launch? The last Apollo launch was
Speaker 1: in the late seventies, and the Apollo launches will come
Speaker 1: into into play here in a couple of minutes. We're
Speaker 1: definitely gonna talk about those. But other than the Apollo launches,
Speaker 1: there was nothing big enough in that time frame that
Speaker 1: could have been knocked into orbit and therefore be I
Speaker 1: guess though. I so for me, I kind of think
Speaker 1: how stable is its orbit? Right, because we were kind
Speaker 1: of talking about you know, it goes a little wonky,
Speaker 1: when a little wonky when it came past us, and
Speaker 1: if it was our space junk, maybe it was moving faster, right,
Speaker 1: So it was like from more recent right, so the
Speaker 1: first time we quote passed it when it was basically
Speaker 1: launched from us, or we passed it, was it more
Speaker 1: recent and it went around that one time, but slowed
Speaker 1: down while it was going around because it hit our gravity.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, and then so it would continue to slow down,
Speaker 1: so we wouldn't see it for another, you know, a
Speaker 1: couple of years. But I would make sense to me
Speaker 1: that perhaps it would be slowing down in its orbit.
Speaker 1: Potentially maybe, but potentially it's not stay in motion. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Plus they run into a lot of objects that bumped
Speaker 1: them around, and actually bumping them around is part of
Speaker 1: what Dr Steele was saying. Potentially it could be as
Speaker 1: if it was a chunk of a rocket that we
Speaker 1: sent up. It could be that it was something that
Speaker 1: went into orbit that we launched into orbit around the
Speaker 1: Earth or the Moon or ourselves, and then it got
Speaker 1: thrown off by the gravity well or actually ran into
Speaker 1: the Moon and was kicked off into space and then
Speaker 1: just went bouncing around and got locked into orbit because
Speaker 1: of that. So it should have been around us, but
Speaker 1: we accident, you know, the Moon accidentally bumped into it,
Speaker 1: or I mean, you know, or even this was you know,
Speaker 1: like a conglomerate of rocks and like whatever, and it
Speaker 1: encountered because it came close enough that maybe, like if
Speaker 1: something knocked something out, a piece of metal or whatever,
Speaker 1: and it got incorporated into this thing right as it
Speaker 1: was like everything was in perfect harmony, got knocked into
Speaker 1: this thing. That's why we hadn't seen it really before.
Speaker 1: It wasn't being reflective because it didn't have our space
Speaker 1: junk in it yet. It may not have been spinning
Speaker 1: at that time. It may have run into some junk that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. It's again, that's you know,
Speaker 1: if it's man made, the numbers don't seem to fit
Speaker 1: well at least earthly manmade right, right, if it's earthly manmade.
Speaker 1: So let's move on to our next theory and the
Speaker 1: third theory. I didn't. I didn't never come across us
Speaker 1: in my research per se. It just never really sprang
Speaker 1: up for some reason. But I did have a brief
Speaker 1: email conversation with Dr Steele because I wanted to. I
Speaker 1: wanted to get his take on it and try to
Speaker 1: get an opportunity to chat with him. And he wasn't
Speaker 1: interested in it because he is since he put out
Speaker 1: his paper, he changes his his thoughts on it. He's
Speaker 1: now of the group that believes that G is a
Speaker 1: part of Apollo twelve Saturn five rocket, specifically the third
Speaker 1: stage of the rocket, which is an S four B rocket.
Speaker 1: So he said, well, now it's it's pretty conclusive to
Speaker 1: me that it's S four B and that's it, which
Speaker 1: makes sense because these rockets are pretty sticking big. And
Speaker 1: let me give you the background of what happened with
Speaker 1: Apollo twelve. They went up. When they launched Apollo twelve,
Speaker 1: the ship, I think it was hit twice by lightning
Speaker 1: on launch, which messed up a lot of their systems,
Speaker 1: and they had some serious problems. They didn't know if
Speaker 1: they were gonna be able to continue the mission or
Speaker 1: if they're even gonna be able to make it home.
Speaker 1: They get into space, controls were all messed up. Eventually,
Speaker 1: ground control and the astronauts themselves they figured out how
Speaker 1: to make things work and they were able to get
Speaker 1: the stages to go to release and to send the
Speaker 1: lunar lander away, which eventually did land on the Moon.
Speaker 1: And there's all the photos in the world on the
Speaker 1: internet to see that. What happened though, is that what
Speaker 1: NASA intended to do is in a previous launch, they
Speaker 1: had taken the third stage of one of the rockets,
Speaker 1: and they had crashed it into the Moon, and this
Speaker 1: time they wanted to go ahead and not crashing in
Speaker 1: the moon, but sended specifically into orbit around the Moon.
Speaker 1: When they went to do that, there was some miscalculation
Speaker 1: and yeah, they well they pushed it too fast. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Apollo twelve, as far as I know, it was, it
Speaker 1: was a pretty There was not. There was not no
Speaker 1: problem with that mission. So it sounds like a confusing
Speaker 1: that with Apollo their team. No, no, no, no, Apollo twelve,
Speaker 1: they had a lot of problems at launch. Once they
Speaker 1: were up and they figured it out, they were able
Speaker 1: to get everything running. Thirteen is where they had some
Speaker 1: major issues. But twelve had some weird stuff in the
Speaker 1: beginning and this was all during the launch sequence. Once
Speaker 1: they lifted off, systems went wonky. So sorry, Why did
Speaker 1: they want to put the thing in the orbit of
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know why they wanted to
Speaker 1: do that. I think it was to see if they
Speaker 1: could do it. I'm guessing. I think, yeah, I really
Speaker 1: think that they were just tacking around. I mean, either
Speaker 1: thing either goes and crashes on the Moon or that
Speaker 1: goes just off into space or whatever. Yeah, and they
Speaker 1: control thing. Yeah, let's see if we can launch it,
Speaker 1: you know, and put an orbit around the Moon. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: it burned too long when they were inventing the gases,
Speaker 1: and it shuttled out of the Moon's gravitational field and disappeared.
Speaker 1: According to the research that I've seen, it was in
Speaker 1: a semi stable orbit around the Earth and the Moon
Speaker 1: for a couple of years until it escaped our orbit
Speaker 1: in seventy one. So here's the easy way to think
Speaker 1: about it. It gets kicked up, it circles us for
Speaker 1: a while, but it's orbits a little off, and then
Speaker 1: eventually it escapes the gravitational poll and then just goes
Speaker 1: and does its own thing in space. But how big
Speaker 1: are those Are they really that big? They're fairly large,
Speaker 1: but big, they're big. Their rocket mean, the thing about
Speaker 1: the rockets you see, you know, all the photos of
Speaker 1: Cape Canaveral when they're launching. That's a big chunk rocket. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just just the third stage, so it's the smallest
Speaker 1: part of it. But it's actually but it's also the
Speaker 1: only part of the rocket that achieves escape blascity, so
Speaker 1: it is the only it's the only part of the
Speaker 1: rocket that's going to go in orbit around the Sun
Speaker 1: versus in orbit around the Moon. So scientists think that
Speaker 1: it's it's big enough to actually be this monolithic. Yeah, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's if it's ten meters across, it's about thirty feet
Speaker 1: aren't the Aren't those things painted? Yeah, they're painted white
Speaker 1: and black, which there's another interesting fact to it. They're
Speaker 1: white and black. That explains the blinking. Yeah, that would
Speaker 1: the reflectivity of it. Plus, if it's a cylinder, it's
Speaker 1: not going to have a perfect rotation against us, so
Speaker 1: are they They're painted in lines black and white, so
Speaker 1: it would a check. Well, actually that's the stage actually,
Speaker 1: I'm looking at a picture of it right now. The
Speaker 1: stage is actually painted pretty much all white, and then
Speaker 1: the bottom there's a cone at the bottom that flares
Speaker 1: out that makes up with the wider second stage, and
Speaker 1: that has painted white with a couple of black stripes.
Speaker 1: So you can see that cone right there that's black
Speaker 1: and white, and then the top of it has got
Speaker 1: a white stripe around it. Also. Yeah, yeah, so I
Speaker 1: guess I could see how like the optical illusion in space,
Speaker 1: if it were like straight vertical lines that you know,
Speaker 1: the black and the white in contrast with each other.
Speaker 1: You know, that's in painting. That's how you make a
Speaker 1: corner like it's a thing. Right, So I guess I
Speaker 1: could see that, But looking at that picture, I don't
Speaker 1: know that it makes a lot of sense for half
Speaker 1: of it to be reflective and half of it to
Speaker 1: not be right. Yeah, but it's also it's also conceivable
Speaker 1: that the mating cone that basically fired in with the rocket,
Speaker 1: the stage below it was wider that thing, that thing
Speaker 1: would be about thirty feet in diameter as white at point,
Speaker 1: and that was painted black and white. So if that,
Speaker 1: if that came, if that came apart, came with it
Speaker 1: off of the rest of the rocket, that would be rough.
Speaker 1: With the size of our objects, it wouldn't be you know.
Speaker 1: But here's my problem. Okay again, I I don't like
Speaker 1: to do this, want to give theories immediately turned around
Speaker 1: and poke holes into it, which I do. But well,
Speaker 1: today's show it was a prime candidate of Steve doing that,
Speaker 1: because here's my problem with the theory that G is
Speaker 1: the fourth the sp four stage of the Saturn five rockets.
Speaker 1: In two thousand two, amateur astronomer Bill Young spotted something
Speaker 1: in space that was moving, and that object is identified
Speaker 1: as Jay zero zero to E three. That object, they
Speaker 1: did a electro magnetics spectrum analysis of it, which again
Speaker 1: that's the science that's beyond me. But what they figured
Speaker 1: out is that it was consistent. That analysis show that
Speaker 1: was consistent with white titanium dioxide, which was the paint
Speaker 1: that was used on the Saturn five rockets. So that's
Speaker 1: object number two that we're saying is the third stage
Speaker 1: of the rocket from Apollo twelve. Well, there's a bunch
Speaker 1: of garbage, like we said before, floating around the Earth
Speaker 1: and around our Solar system. And though not all of
Speaker 1: them wink, there's some things that do and low and behold,
Speaker 1: there's another one. December twenty nine or September twenty nine
Speaker 1: of two thousand. This is two astronomers at the University
Speaker 1: of Hawaii. They find a near Earth object and they
Speaker 1: catalog as two thousand s G three four four uh.
Speaker 1: This particular object was within four million, eight hundred thousand
Speaker 1: miles of Earth, or about twenty times farther out from
Speaker 1: Earth than was but when it got closed, the object
Speaker 1: appeared to be about a hundred to two hundred feet
Speaker 1: in diameter depending on its consistency, because that, you know,
Speaker 1: the brightness is hard to measure. But when they took
Speaker 1: a look at it, they noticed that it wasn't acting
Speaker 1: like an asteroid, so again it was winking. They went ahead,
Speaker 1: and they wentn't They decided, well, as this thing been
Speaker 1: up there if we've seen it for a while now,
Speaker 1: And the scientists did find photos from May of nine
Speaker 1: in their archives and around the same area essentially, and
Speaker 1: they discovered it, and they went ahead and plotted his
Speaker 1: trajectory and figured out that it would have come around
Speaker 1: us approximately in ninety one. And they were saying, they
Speaker 1: say that this particular piece of space junk is also
Speaker 1: the third stage of the Apollo twelve rocket. So why
Speaker 1: is Apollo twelve the you know, the whipping boy of
Speaker 1: all these people. It's because we don't know what happened
Speaker 1: to it. It's swing shot it out into space and
Speaker 1: then we lost it, and they don't know where it's hat.
Speaker 1: And so everybody is saying that this, that and the
Speaker 1: other is that piece of rocket. It might be that
Speaker 1: it broke up into a couple of pieces, so it
Speaker 1: might actually be in a couple of different places too.
Speaker 1: But but it's size. Everything that they say is going
Speaker 1: to be this chunk of Saturn five rocket because about
Speaker 1: the same size. So unless it bread in space, since
Speaker 1: you know rocket kit, I don't think it's it. I
Speaker 1: guess yeah, the Hawaii one makes the most sense to me,
Speaker 1: right that it You know, they estimated I probably would
Speaker 1: have been there around seventy one, which is around when
Speaker 1: you know we lost the thing, and yeah, yeah, so
Speaker 1: I'm I'm hesitant to say that it's Apolodwell too, which
Speaker 1: leads me to our last is it aliens? It is?
Speaker 1: We're finally doing aliens. We're finally doing aliens. We aliens before, Yes,
Speaker 1: we have when well, not in space, but on the
Speaker 1: s Earth we've always all right, So here's here's the
Speaker 1: final theory about what is. There's a bunch of people
Speaker 1: who say that it is something from an alien civilization. Specifically,
Speaker 1: they are saying that it's a brace Well probe. Have
Speaker 1: you ever heard of a brace Well probe? Okay for
Speaker 1: anybody who doesn't know what a brace Well probe is. Essentially,
Speaker 1: the theory goes, and this was first theorized by a
Speaker 1: gentleman by the name of Ronald brace Well in nine sixty,
Speaker 1: and he said that because travel between pieces in the galaxy,
Speaker 1: your places in the galaxy here so long, and it's
Speaker 1: hard to say, and transmissions like radio waves, you could
Speaker 1: send a probe and that probe would be autonomous. It
Speaker 1: would be essentially self sustaining, and it would look for
Speaker 1: what it considered a intelligence species or a planet that
Speaker 1: could possibly have intelligence on it. At some point. Once
Speaker 1: it found that intelligence, it would communicate with that species
Speaker 1: in some way and then alert it's original the species
Speaker 1: that sent it out, and then we can all get
Speaker 1: together and have a galactic chat over our planet. It's
Speaker 1: essentially a more sophisticated voyager. Right, we've done what we
Speaker 1: could at that point. That has all of our information
Speaker 1: on It doesn't bribe broadcasts, right, does it broadcast something? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it broadcasts back to us, so it must be. It
Speaker 1: does send signals back to something you know, So okay,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't you know search. It's not intelligence of
Speaker 1: any kind. It's just it's just a floating probe. We're
Speaker 1: hoping for somebody as to find it. Where is this
Speaker 1: would be looking for somebody and actually, I know you
Speaker 1: Devon will love this. The brace Well probe was the
Speaker 1: basis for the original story that two thousand one of
Speaker 1: Space Honesty was based upon. So that's if you've ever
Speaker 1: seen that movie, that obelisk was a brace Well probe. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's why. That's why they buried it on the moon,
Speaker 1: you know, because one man is when man is sophisticated
Speaker 1: not to actually go to the moon and actually find
Speaker 1: and dig it up, and then the sun hits it
Speaker 1: and that's when it sends off its little message. Right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But people say, well, it's a brace Well object, and
Speaker 1: so it's it's circling our planet. Is it's just recently
Speaker 1: found us, and it's waiting for us to come back
Speaker 1: around and be smart enough to communicate with it so
Speaker 1: that it can introduce us to everybody else. You'd say,
Speaker 1: it's waiting for us to be smart enough to go
Speaker 1: fish it out of there, right, send a fishing line
Speaker 1: out there and pull it back in. What's the problem.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's the way it works. I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 1: brace Well objects are in sci fi stuff all over
Speaker 1: the place. Every intelligent probe is a brace Well, but
Speaker 1: nobody knows that that actually's gonna happen. Brace Well himself
Speaker 1: just kind of made it up, it's theory. Well, because
Speaker 1: you know artificial intelligence elsewhere in the universe that coexists
Speaker 1: at the same time as we are also intelligent, So
Speaker 1: it's statistic statistic improbability. And yeah, and well, you know
Speaker 1: you're talking a lot of distance and not just set
Speaker 1: but a lot of a lot of objects. To examine
Speaker 1: a lot of solar systems you have to send any
Speaker 1: rear probes to absolutely well, although that's it's not as
Speaker 1: many as we think. As it turns out, they just
Speaker 1: did a study. They call them the Goldilocks planets. Right,
Speaker 1: not too hot, not too cold, perfect for life that
Speaker 1: we recognized by our you know, laws of physics and whatever,
Speaker 1: would be able to harbor intelligent life. Right, Earth like
Speaker 1: planets that have what we understand to be the basic
Speaker 1: building blocks of I understand their theories out there about
Speaker 1: there being other types of aliens, but in our galaxy
Speaker 1: there are only a hundred and four planets four so far,
Speaker 1: no like at all that we can identify it. And
Speaker 1: the Goldilocks zone, correct me if I'm wrong, is planets
Speaker 1: that are approximately the same distance away from a sun
Speaker 1: like ours, or are getting the same amount of radiation
Speaker 1: to quit that distance so that it's a really narrow band.
Speaker 1: It's a very narrow ribbon around a sun that can
Speaker 1: hold a planet that we know of. They can hard life, right,
Speaker 1: So you know, well, I'm curious about is that they've
Speaker 1: they've found they've identified I think, just to clarify, it
Speaker 1: sounds like they've identified a hundred four so far, but
Speaker 1: they haven't. That's not a comprehensive study, correct, Well, I
Speaker 1: mean they haven't examined the entire galaxy. That it's not
Speaker 1: based on examination. It's based on calculations. But so that's
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a pretty astensinitely low number, it is,
Speaker 1: but it's a statistical achieved number, and you know how
Speaker 1: statistics are. It's hard to say a small pool that
Speaker 1: you can observe. It would be like saying there are
Speaker 1: only X number of one bedroom apartments in a thirty
Speaker 1: block radius in my town, and that means there's only
Speaker 1: x number total in the city. Right. But so I
Speaker 1: guess my argument on that is that if we were
Speaker 1: to send out a probe, we would start with those
Speaker 1: hundred and four true Goldilocks planets, as would any that
Speaker 1: would be the criteria that it would be looking, right,
Speaker 1: So they would send that to something that looked like
Speaker 1: Earth ostensibly, right, We're just we're making some vast assumptions here,
Speaker 1: assumptions here. But if there were an alien racy in
Speaker 1: our galaxy, which you kind of assume, they're probably in
Speaker 1: our galaxy, right for it to make it here. Maybe not,
Speaker 1: maybe it's from some completely different galaxy. But let's to
Speaker 1: say they're in our galaxy. They send it to the
Speaker 1: similar Goldilocks things. There's only a hundred and four okay,
Speaker 1: they found It's it's not that long to find life.
Speaker 1: It's a long distance to travel, and that's what you
Speaker 1: send a probe, right, yeah, exactly, That's why you send
Speaker 1: a probe, so you don't go, oh fuck here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but we got here, you know, it fell apart. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean by the time we got here. I gotta
Speaker 1: say that if they have an industrillar probe that's only
Speaker 1: about ten meters long, then we have to snag that
Speaker 1: thing and take a look at it. Oh yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: because I mean that's you know, with with non technologies,
Speaker 1: these not technologies that we're exploring now or that we
Speaker 1: actually have. We we've talked about them. The theory of
Speaker 1: grabbing stuff out of space yeah, yeah, I'm just talking
Speaker 1: about an interstellar drive. There's like things like ram jets
Speaker 1: to ram jets that just use random, random hydrogen that
Speaker 1: exists between the ours, but they tend to be very
Speaker 1: large structures. So I'd be really interested in something that's
Speaker 1: that's only ten long, that's capable of interstellar travel. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's some technology we need to get our hands. Yeah kidding.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I I hate to say it, but I
Speaker 1: think alien. Do you really like this theory? Is? I
Speaker 1: think the alien theory. I think it's the best theory.
Speaker 1: And honestly, I'm out of theories. That's the hard part
Speaker 1: is this is these are all these are the main
Speaker 1: things that I could come across, you know as generalizations. Uh,
Speaker 1: And I don't know, to be honest, I'm waiting honestly,
Speaker 1: look at like all those theories that you have, what
Speaker 1: is the most plausible, Like if you just like, okay
Speaker 1: in your mind, except that aliens exist? Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: that from what I can tell in the research, I
Speaker 1: believe that it's a metallic object that is an engineered object,
Speaker 1: the meaning that it's not random space rocks. Now, is
Speaker 1: that engineered objects of junk that we put up that
Speaker 1: somehow stuck itself together and now has an orbit, or
Speaker 1: we did or somebody else that I don't know. Here's
Speaker 1: the thing we're overlooking is Russia. Dude, that country is
Speaker 1: big enough they could have launched some stuff into orbit
Speaker 1: without us ever knowing. Very true. Now we would know
Speaker 1: about I mean we've got we watched their rocket launches
Speaker 1: pretty carefully. We've been doing it for a long time
Speaker 1: because of that. There's that whole thing about I CBMs
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. So that's what that. That's what
Speaker 1: those asteroids they keep getting hit with asteroids, they're not asteroids.
Speaker 1: Their accidental returning spaceships. Yeah, yeah, brewing they're using it
Speaker 1: to cover ye like, oh something hit here. We don't
Speaker 1: know what it was. Oh there's no debris. Weird. We
Speaker 1: definitely didn't watch something instead of hitting. Yeah. Well again,
Speaker 1: I I personally don't know what it is. But ladies
Speaker 1: and gentlemen, I will encourage you to go to our
Speaker 1: website because we have the links about this particular story,
Speaker 1: and there is a fantastic link that we're gonna put
Speaker 1: up will actually allow you to watch v G in
Speaker 1: its orbit around the Sun. It's just like a little
Speaker 1: like computer simulation. It's a very but it's it's but informative,
Speaker 1: it's very important, exactly. I understood it so much better
Speaker 1: once I watch that. So I know we're going to
Speaker 1: include that and some of the other bits that we've
Speaker 1: that have found here, So that would be good. Uh.
Speaker 1: That website says always is going to be Thinking sideways
Speaker 1: podcast dot com. You can listen to the show right
Speaker 1: there on the website. You can go ahead and listen
Speaker 1: to us on Stitcher. If you're on the go you
Speaker 1: don't have time to download it, you can just listen
Speaker 1: to it right on your robble phone, your smartphone, or
Speaker 1: if you want, you can always go ahead and go
Speaker 1: to iTunes and download the show right there. Yeah, if
Speaker 1: you're on iTunes and you're liking what you're here and
Speaker 1: go ahead and leave as a comment or a rating. Heck,
Speaker 1: if you want, you can even go ahead and send
Speaker 1: us an email to tell us a what you thought
Speaker 1: of the show or be what your thoughts for this
Speaker 1: particular story are, or see if you have stories you
Speaker 1: want to hear, or if you have stor you want
Speaker 1: to hear, that would be awesome. We've gotten some good ones.
Speaker 1: We've got some by the way, I gotta share some stuff.
Speaker 1: We've got some good stuff recently, and I gotta share
Speaker 1: that with you. I've been keeping in my coat pocket.
Speaker 1: I haven't been sharing with you, and I'm gonna do that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: hold out on you. That email address that you can
Speaker 1: go ahead and get ahold of us at is going
Speaker 1: to be Thinking Sideways podcast at gmail dot com. That's
Speaker 1: email address. It is a big email address. And the last,
Speaker 1: but most certainly not least, go ahead and find us
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Speaker 1: bits of information that we come across, some upcoming stories.
Speaker 1: So go ahead and uh and find us on there,
Speaker 1: and I know you'll enjoy it. And with that having
Speaker 1: been said, ladies and gentlemen, we're going to go ahead
Speaker 1: and call it a night. So talk to you soon.
Speaker 1: We're orbiting out of here. Number one. Make it so