1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:07,039 Speaker 1: Hey everyone, Welcome to the Restless Ones. I'm Jonathan Strickland. 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:10,719 Speaker 1: As always, my focus is on exploring the intersection of 3 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: technology and business by having conversations with the most forward 4 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: thinking leaders. Throughout my career, I've covered everything from massive 5 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:24,319 Speaker 1: parallel processing to advanced robotics, but what truly inspires me 6 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: are the stories of innovation and transformation. Today's guest is 7 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 1: Mike Anderson, the CIO of Netscope. Mike was at the 8 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: right place, at the right time to learn some really 9 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: valuable lessons in the tech space, becoming a co founder 10 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: of a company just as the dot com craze was 11 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:49,560 Speaker 1: taking off in the nineties and industry defining disruption. Later, 12 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: and Mike found himself honing his skills as a business 13 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: leader before ultimately joining Netscope as CIO. Netscope is a 14 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: cybersecurity company that aims to dreamline client operations while providing 15 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: top level security. Leaders know that maintaining operations is a 16 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: challenge in an increasingly complicated world. Once upon a time, 17 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: a company might house all of its systems under a 18 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: single roof. These days, with cloud services, distributed offices, and 19 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 1: remote work all in the picture, it ensures that security 20 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: takes a lot more effort. I sat down with Mike 21 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,320 Speaker 1: to talk about his perspective on security, the questions leaders 22 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: need to ask in order to keep their company's clients 23 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:34,199 Speaker 1: and staff safe, and how emerging technologies like AI could 24 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: have an impact on business in the future. But before 25 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 1: jumping into all of that, I wanted to get to 26 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: know Mike a bit better. Mike, Welcome to the Restless Ones. 27 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 1: We are so happy to have you on the show. 28 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 2: I am super excited to be a guest today and 29 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 2: looking forward to the conversation. 30 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: Before we dive into everything that you're doing currently, I 31 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: always like to get some background and get a better 32 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: understanding of the path my guests took before they reached 33 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: their current level in their career. So what initially drew 34 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 1: you to the world of software development? 35 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 2: You know? I remember there was a presentation from one 36 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 2: of these e commerce companies back when I first started 37 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 2: as a software developer, and a few of us said, Wow, 38 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 2: they're charging a lot for that software. We could go 39 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 2: do that too and make a lot of money. So 40 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 2: we went and started our own startup back in the 41 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:26,679 Speaker 2: dot com days. Unfortunately, we had caught up in the 42 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 2: whole Dot com Bust as well, but I learned a lot. 43 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 2: It was very early in my career, and that gave 44 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 2: me experience beyond just being in technology, but dealing with 45 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 2: the board of directors because I was the president of 46 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,639 Speaker 2: the company at a very young age. It's the challenges 47 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 2: we have in life. It's the failures we have in 48 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 2: life that if we learn from those, they shape who 49 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 2: we are as a person. And so I wouldn't change anything. 50 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 2: I wish it would have been super successful, but I 51 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 2: learned so much and met so many great people through 52 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 2: the process. 53 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: There's nothing like a trial by fire to really have 54 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: you step up your skill set rapidly. I imagine that those 55 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 1: lessons are are ones that to this day remain relevant 56 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: in your work. 57 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 2: It's interesting because it started in that software development side, 58 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 2: but then I spent the better part of a decade 59 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 2: as a business leader running sales engineering teams, technology practice, 60 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 2: sales overlay organizations, being a GM for a system integrator 61 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 2: or a VP of operations for Microsoft Joint Venture, until 62 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 2: eventually I had a customer say, you know what, I 63 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 2: ask you for advice all the time. We're looking for 64 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 2: a CEO. Do you want to give that a shot? 65 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 2: And so that was kind of my journey about a 66 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 2: decade ago when I became a CIO, and I've been 67 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 2: on that journey now for the past ten years. 68 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: Wow. And so out of curiosity, were there any lessons 69 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: learned as a software developer that are relevant, like seeing 70 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: things from the other side on the developer side, that 71 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: inform your approach to leadership? 72 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 2: There is so Admittedly, you know, we also use the 73 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 2: word shadow it. I would say I was the shadow 74 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 2: it guy back when I was in the technology side. 75 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 2: But I've always stayed close to tech hobbying, and even 76 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 2: as a CIO my first CIO job, I was more 77 00:03:57,760 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 2: in the weeds than I probably should have been, just 78 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 2: because I love the technology, and so I would go 79 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 2: learn things and then I would bring them back to 80 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 2: my team and say, hey, have you looked at this? 81 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 2: Have you thought about that? So even today we think 82 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 2: about generative AI. How do we think about our business 83 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 2: and how do we use that? You know, what problems 84 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 2: can we solve and how do we put the right 85 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 2: guardrails around it? And so I think that technical understanding 86 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 2: was helpful. Sometimes you get that question like what's your superpower? 87 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 2: And I think the superpower for me is like, how 88 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 2: do you take something super technical and then be able 89 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,720 Speaker 2: to translate in terms that people that aren't technical can understand? 90 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 2: How do you use analogies in storytelling to help people 91 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 2: understand things better that don't have the technical depth? And 92 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 2: I think living on both sides help me get where 93 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 2: I'm at today. 94 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: I completely understand where you're coming from With that. I'm curious, 95 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: how do you describe what your job is to someone 96 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 1: else in a way that doesn't come across to them 97 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: like a bunch of unrelated buzzwords that they can't quite parse. 98 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 2: The first thing I explained is what netscope does. Because 99 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 2: a lot of people say you mean Netscape, I'm like, no, 100 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 2: I mean netscope. If we think about any works at work, 101 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 2: you're generally going to three destinations. You're going to a website. 102 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:02,159 Speaker 2: You're going to some software as a service application like 103 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 2: a salesforce. You're going to some application your company runs 104 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 2: in their data center. The challenges you want to make 105 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 2: sure that you create a seamless experience for help people 106 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,719 Speaker 2: get to those things and make it a great experience 107 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 2: so as you're not having to call someone to say 108 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 2: something's not working. And so what we do is we 109 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 2: create that secure, consistent, seamless experience for users connecting to 110 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 2: all those applications without sacrificing the security that you need 111 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 2: or the performance you want. And we also make sure 112 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 2: that people can't access board than they should. And so 113 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 2: that's what I explain to people what we do without buzzwords. 114 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 2: And then my job, I get the opportunity to lead 115 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:37,799 Speaker 2: an amazing team and be part of an amazing company, 116 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 2: amazing culture, to not only help with strategy but also 117 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 2: how we use our own technology internally and technology overall. 118 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: And as you point out, the landscape of how business 119 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: is done today is so much more complicated than it 120 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: was when we were both entering into the workforce. Back then, 121 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: it was regular for a business to have pretty much 122 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: all of its systems on premise us the word cloud 123 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: computing had not really emerged into the mainstream yet. And 124 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 1: now we're talking about work environments that can span multiple 125 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 1: networks across multiple providers. So the need for a solution 126 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: that creates a cohesive approach to all of this that's 127 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: absolutely critical. I can see how that is a crucial 128 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 1: service in the way that business is run today. 129 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,160 Speaker 2: No absolutely what happens in the consumer space always makes 130 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 2: its way to influence what we do in the corporate world. 131 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 2: So if you think back into the nineties, we used 132 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 2: to go in the office and email was something you 133 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 2: could only access when you were in the building. I 134 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 2: remember I was using Novel group Wise, you know, for 135 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 2: people on the podcast maybe listening. That was an old 136 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 2: email platform before Microsoft Exchange and Gmail existed. But I 137 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:47,720 Speaker 2: remember we were like, I want to be able to 138 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 2: access some of the stuff from home. I got my 139 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 2: computer at homes. I don't have a laptop because we 140 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 2: didn't have laptops. You had a desktop. So I had 141 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,239 Speaker 2: a desktop at home and a desktop at work. And 142 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 2: we're like, well, I want to work some of that 143 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 2: code at home. And so you afford email to this 144 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 2: new thing called Yahoo Mail and you get there. Then 145 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 2: people said that's not secure. We can't have people awarding 146 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 2: their email. So what happened all of a sudden Now 147 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 2: corporate email became accessible to people when they weren't in 148 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 2: the office, right, And so we saw the same thing 149 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 2: happen in mobile. We're seeing the same thing happen now 150 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 2: with software as a service. Right. It's users that are 151 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 2: trying to solve a problem, and they're bringing in an 152 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 2: application to solve that problem. We basically had that data center, 153 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 2: I had all my security stack, and a lot of 154 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 2: companies have eight different products, eight different pieces of hardware 155 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 2: from maybe eight different companies, sometimes the same company, but 156 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 2: they were never meant to talk together, never meant to 157 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 2: work together, and it just creates these speed bumps of 158 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 2: complexity inside of our organizations. And so there's this opportunity 159 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 2: to really take that, consolidate it, and leverage the new 160 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 2: capabilities that we get. You know, use a buzzword, I'll 161 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 2: use cloud, but basically deliver it where it doesn't have 162 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 2: to be that hardware that I Typically I buy hardware 163 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 2: based on my future demand, not what I need today. 164 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 2: So I'm over buying for what I need. It's like 165 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 2: paying for the house the law and you're going to 166 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 2: have in your future home. But even though you're in 167 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 2: a smaller home today, I don't need that lawn service today, 168 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 2: but I'm paying for it already. It's the same thing 169 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 2: people were doing. So now I've got all that capability 170 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 2: being delivered from the cloud, my supplying demand matches, and 171 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 2: at the same time, it's creating an amazing employee experience 172 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 2: because we're moving the tech closer to the user and 173 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 2: not back calling things to central place to be able 174 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 2: to run it through those eight speed bumps on the 175 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 2: way out the door. 176 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: I'm very curious. We've talked about how businesses and the 177 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: way to do business has gotten much more complicated. I 178 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: think one of the things that really has transformed businesses 179 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: in a truly disruptive way is wireless connectivity. How has 180 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: that been reflected in the security sector, because we've seen 181 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: what it's doing for creating new business opportunities, But what 182 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 1: sort of effects does that have on the security side. 183 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great question when you look at today. 184 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 2: Anytime you connect from home, like the traditional way we've 185 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 2: all done it is, when I'm trying to access my 186 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 2: ERP system or whatever application inside my company, I connect 187 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 2: my VPN on it gives me an IP address that's 188 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:03,839 Speaker 2: now on the network. So my device in my home 189 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 2: over that wireless network is now connected on that network 190 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 2: and it can route anywhere on the network once it's there. Now, 191 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 2: I could try to go create some complexity and firewall 192 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 2: rolls to head that off, but you know there's a 193 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,199 Speaker 2: lot of overhead associated to that. If you think about, 194 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 2: there's a word zero trust out there, the idea being 195 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 2: if I'm from home, I don't want people to have 196 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 2: a routable IP address to get anywhere on my network, 197 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 2: because what happens if they've got their kid upstairs playing 198 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 2: you know, roblocks, and they're using some bot that's not 199 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 2: really safe, and all of a sudden, it's compromising, it's 200 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 2: attacking my company. This is word a tax surface we 201 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 2: use in security. Every one of those people connected VIAVPN 202 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 2: is part of my tech surface. If I'm at a 203 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,679 Speaker 2: coffee shop on an unsecure network at a Starbucks, that's 204 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 2: part of my tech surface. And so that's the challenge 205 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 2: that it's created. And then I take that same computer 206 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 2: I was in the Starbucks with and I take it 207 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,959 Speaker 2: back into my office and I've got full connectivity to everything. Now, 208 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 2: all of a sudden, I've got this different experience, different 209 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 2: access depending on where I'm working from. And really, if 210 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 2: we think about it, we want that cure access wherever 211 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 2: someone's working from. And if you apply one of the 212 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:06,679 Speaker 2: core tenets of zero trust is don't trust any network. 213 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 2: And so if you talk to the CIOs and the 214 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 2: CISOs that are down this path. They've basically said, my 215 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:14,439 Speaker 2: offices are like a Starbucks. Now, I only give people 216 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 2: access to the apps they need and nothing more. One 217 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 2: of the problems is how do I give that access 218 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 2: to applications without giving people access to the network and 219 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 2: make sure it's consistent. If I'm working from home on 220 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 2: my wireless connection, working over five G in my car 221 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 2: in the middle of a parking lot where I'm working 222 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 2: at my company's office, we want that to be the seamless, 223 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 2: consistent experience across both those without having more access than 224 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 2: you should excellent. 225 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 1: One of the things I think is really interesting is 226 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: as we're seeing evolutions in things like wireless connectivity, we're 227 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: seeing some consideration being put forward towards security, even just 228 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 1: in those technologies at a baseline before we start adding 229 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 1: on top of that, could you speak a bit to 230 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: some of the security advantages that five G presents compared 231 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: to previous generations of wireless technology. 232 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 2: I have the fortunate of being on the advisory board 233 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 2: for t Mobile for business right, and they're obviously pushing 234 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,839 Speaker 2: a lot in the five G space. The big piece 235 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 2: I think that five G allows is it allows opportunities 236 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 2: to bring workloads closer to the users closer to where 237 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 2: decisions need to be made. Before, I was reliant on 238 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 2: how much of a circuit could I pay for or 239 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 2: connected to an office or a building, or how fast 240 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:26,680 Speaker 2: is the internet access? Like a look at my home. 241 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:28,559 Speaker 2: I love my gigabit connection, but why do I have 242 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 2: a fifty meg Because I can't always trust my gigabit connection, 243 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 2: So that five G presents another path, doesn't require someone 244 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,959 Speaker 2: to bury things under the ground. Now there are things 245 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 2: where you can do private networks and things like that. 246 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 2: We see those in the federal government a lot where 247 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 2: we can leverage things like five G or at private 248 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 2: five G network. But even in that you want to 249 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 2: layer on top of that. So if I have an 250 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 2: IoT device, how do I make sure that's only talking 251 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 2: to things I wanted to talk to? Because if I 252 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 2: see all of a sudden and see that camera in 253 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 2: my building or that camera in an oil field, all 254 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 2: of a sudden, someone else is taking control of it. 255 00:11:57,960 --> 00:11:59,559 Speaker 2: I want to be able to see that and restrict 256 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 2: that and block and make sure that that doesn't lead 257 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 2: into a vulnerability in the rest of my environment. And 258 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 2: so five G creates a great path and opens up 259 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 2: new business opportunities, but we also have to layer the 260 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 2: security on top of that to make sure that we 261 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 2: can only allow things access, whether it's a person or device, 262 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 2: the things they should. 263 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember when we started talking about big data, 264 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: it was in a time where it was all about 265 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: the collection, but we didn't really have great ways to 266 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: analyze information. Obviously that has gone by leaps and bounds 267 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: since then. But on the flip side to your point, 268 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 1: the Internet of things also represents considerations you have to 269 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: make when it comes to security because we've seen time 270 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,439 Speaker 1: and again in the consumer world even how Internet of 271 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:44,079 Speaker 1: things devices can sometimes allow unwanted intruders access to your home, 272 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: we have to remember that the devices we're connecting to 273 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: our networks, while they might be incredible and add value, 274 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: we have to do it in a way that continues 275 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: to keep security front of mind. 276 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 2: No. One hundred percent. And it's an interesting topic, and 277 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 2: there's a corre layer here, which is, you know, we 278 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 2: always say we're only as strong as our weakest link, 279 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 2: and so even the one product that we put in 280 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,439 Speaker 2: our home can have the best security possible if it's 281 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 2: used right. But the problem is when it's not put 282 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 2: in the optimal environment. We always say there's a happy 283 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 2: path in software, right, Well, people do things we don't 284 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 2: expect them to do, and it's those types of settings 285 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,960 Speaker 2: and configurations and things we do that create that risk 286 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:24,599 Speaker 2: for us. And so we see that today. I was 287 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 2: with the former chief of staff or SISA for those 288 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 2: on our film. With SISA, they're focused on our critical 289 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 2: infrastructure security and it's one of the largest federal agencies 290 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,439 Speaker 2: in that space. If you think about all of our businesses, 291 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 2: at some point we are dependent on some small business 292 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 2: to provide some part or some capability or some service 293 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 2: for us today. And those companies don't have the budgets, 294 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 2: the people, the knowledge to be able to get the 295 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 2: right level of security we need them to have. And 296 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 2: so we have a social responsibility as an industry to 297 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 2: help all those companies because again we're only as strong 298 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 2: as our weakest link, and so how do we help 299 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 2: them be more secure? Because there's more all businesses in 300 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:01,839 Speaker 2: the world and there are large ones. 301 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 1: To that point, how do you think leaders should approach security? 302 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: What questions should they be asking and seeking answers as 303 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: they're building out their security strategy. 304 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 2: First question ask is where you on your identity journey 305 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 2: because the first and foremost, I need to prove I 306 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 2: know who that person is and be able to then 307 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 2: reprove that that's really that person if I see something 308 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 2: that looks anomalous in what they're doing. The second piece 309 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 2: is then you know where we're starting to come in. 310 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 2: There's this term called Secure Access Service Edge, and as 311 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 2: part of that, there's a subcomponent called security service edge. 312 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 2: And if you look at the some of the guidance 313 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 2: from NIST, they basically created this what they call zero 314 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 2: trust architecture. So we took the zero trust term and 315 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 2: principles and put architecture with it, and they gave people 316 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 2: a guidepost. And if you look at that, there's this 317 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 2: policy enforcement point that sits between users and devices and 318 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 2: everything they want to access, whether it's an application or 319 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 2: resource data, whatever that is. And so I tell people 320 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 2: those are two very critical pieces. Is to have that 321 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 2: policy enforcement point, but you have to have identity with 322 00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 2: it because that informs I know who the person is. 323 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 2: And then each thing you add to that, whether it's 324 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 2: something on the endpoint like a CrowdStrike, how are we 325 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 2: communicating to an OCTA, a PING or a Microsoft. How 326 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 2: do we have a better together story. So when you 327 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 2: think about security, make sure you ask the question, how 328 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 2: did all these things connect together? How do I make 329 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 2: sure that the investment I made in my identity is 330 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 2: going to work with the investment I'm making in my 331 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 2: security service edge, and so that's a critical component of that. 332 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 2: Then let's go with the remote users. We talked about 333 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 2: working on wireless from home in the coffee shop. That's 334 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 2: a great place to start. Let's get them in the 335 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 2: right order. And then next let's go to my branch 336 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 2: offices and look at how do I get my branch 337 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 2: offices where I can almost treat them like they're a 338 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 2: Starbucks coffee shop. Then I go to my headquarters locations 339 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 2: and I deploy the technology within my networks. There's parts 340 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 2: of that cloud piece that come down into my network 341 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 2: so that I can have that same experience inside of 342 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 2: my headquarters. And then to the extent that I've got 343 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 2: factories or plants or distribution centers, then I take it 344 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 2: to that and at that point, I'm trying to make 345 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 2: sure that that machine vision software that's sitting in the 346 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 2: server room that's inspecting a circuit board to make sure 347 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 2: there's no defects, that needs one millisecond latency in order 348 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 2: to be able to keep the manufacturing line running. I 349 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 2: can support that. So that's kind of the journey that 350 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 2: I recommend to people. They go about when they're thinking 351 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 2: about how they implement and the other pieces, think about, like, 352 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 2: what is the part of your world that would hurt 353 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 2: the most if someone were to take it down, because 354 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 2: you can't do everything at once, Start there and then 355 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 2: work down that list. Use an agile mindset as you 356 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 2: apply security. Get the thing that's going to have the 357 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 2: most pain attached to it, Address that one first, and 358 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 2: then move forward from there. 359 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: You've touched on a lot of things that I would 360 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: love to dive into further. Letscope has several clients who 361 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: are in the healthcare industry. Clearly, healthcare has incredibly sensitive 362 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: security issues, right well, you have patient data which needs 363 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: to be as private and secure as it gets, and 364 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: you're talking about a mission critical element. And we've seen 365 00:16:55,320 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: that healthcare organizations can often be prime targets for actors 366 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 1: because they are aware this is a life and death organization. 367 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: So can you talk a little bit about the threats 368 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:13,120 Speaker 1: that health organizations face and how netscope actually helps protect 369 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: against those threats. 370 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 2: It's a great question. You know. The first thing when 371 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:18,159 Speaker 2: you look at healthcare, I mean, because healthcare is a 372 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 2: broad category, when you think about hospital environments, you know, 373 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 2: we hear this concept of ITOT that's so present in hospitals. 374 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 2: The OT in that world, it's the dialysis machine, it's 375 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 2: the robot that the doctor is using. Right, So the 376 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 2: key piece is making sure you have the right level 377 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 2: of segmentation between those devices that are critical to patient care. 378 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 2: And then the place where you store the data, which 379 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 2: in the hospital world is going to be your EMR, 380 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,159 Speaker 2: so it's your EPICA, your serner that you're going to 381 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 2: be using. You've then also got all these systems that 382 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 2: are out there in the software as a service pase. 383 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 2: It may be your HR system like a workday, it 384 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 2: could be a salesforce. So good example that we apply 385 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 2: inside healthcare and inside NETSCOPE as well is when there's 386 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 2: an employee that's exiting the organization, I want them to 387 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 2: be able to put their information in I don't want 388 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 2: to stop them from being able to get their job done, 389 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:05,919 Speaker 2: but I want to stop any activity that lets them 390 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,640 Speaker 2: downloading data to their local machine or taking data with them, 391 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 2: And so we can instrument that automatically for customers. So 392 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 2: if we trigger off the HR system, it puts someone 393 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 2: into an active directory group that then we can key 394 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:19,440 Speaker 2: off of. That says, okay, any of these critical SaaS 395 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,159 Speaker 2: applications block downloads of data. But then take it a 396 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 2: step further because we know that most people take data 397 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 2: thirteen days before they resign. Most people don't take it 398 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 2: after they put their notice in because they expect they're 399 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 2: on the watch list. But now I can go back 400 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:32,719 Speaker 2: and look and see what are all the download activity 401 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 2: and upload activity that person's had for the past ninety days, 402 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 2: you know, especially the past month, And so that lets 403 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 2: me understanded someone do something that I didn't want them 404 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 2: to do. Then. But then let's take it a step further, right, 405 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 2: and this supply is cross industry chat GPT. So you've 406 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 2: got someone that says, you know what, I just wrote 407 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 2: up all these notes about this patient, let me organize 408 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 2: them better. So let me just post them into my 409 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 2: chat GPT and see if I can give them organized better. Well, 410 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 2: that can create a lot of concern because that's now 411 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 2: all that information. Depending on which chat GPT I'm going 412 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 2: to am I going to open AI that's a paid version, 413 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 2: or am I going to the web browser version I'm 414 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 2: paying for All of a sudden, that data is in 415 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 2: the public domain. So what we're doing is inspecting that 416 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 2: data as it's being posted into chat GPT, and if 417 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 2: that has anything that's considered PII about that patient, it's 418 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 2: going to block them from transmitting that information into chat GPT. 419 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 2: I can also warrant people and say, oh, that's not 420 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 2: a corporate instance of chat GPT, that's the free version. 421 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 2: Here's this acceptable use policy for how you use this. 422 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 2: One of the things that I think we all say 423 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 2: in the security space that the issue is not the technology. 424 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 2: We can have the best security tools, but if we 425 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 2: don't address the person in the chair between the keyboard, 426 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 2: that's a week link. And so what I struggle with 427 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,120 Speaker 2: is we use this once a month, once a year, 428 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,440 Speaker 2: once a quarter security awareness training, and we expect people 429 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 2: to take it once and remember it. And if you 430 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 2: remember earlier I said about analogies, I tell people it's 431 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:52,239 Speaker 2: like we get in our car today, we don't pull 432 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 2: it our map to figure out where we're going to 433 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:55,679 Speaker 2: go in our destination. When we get to the airport 434 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 2: and get a rental car. We don't say, let me 435 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 2: get the map so I can look at it. We 436 00:19:58,119 --> 00:19:59,879 Speaker 2: don't know. I just type in address in my phone 437 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:01,919 Speaker 2: and if there's an accident, that guides me around it. 438 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 2: If there's a police ahead, it says, you know, you 439 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 2: may want to slow down. What's our GPS for our 440 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 2: users when they're going about the world. I'm on the Internet, 441 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 2: I'm surfing. There's a lot of destinations out there. And 442 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 2: to me, one of the key things and problems we're 443 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 2: solving at netscope is we're providing a GPS for people. 444 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,640 Speaker 2: Don't go to that site. We already have an application 445 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 2: that does that. Don't bring another one in. They may 446 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 2: not know. People don't read emails and go to app 447 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 2: catalogs to find stuff. They just find things they go 448 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 2: to Google. So it's how do I give that GPS 449 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 2: to my users so that they have a way to 450 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 2: navigate the entire world of the Internet and my applications 451 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 2: without relying on reading emails, attending a webinar, or remembering 452 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 2: something from an annual or quarterly or monthly security awareness training. 453 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: Gosh, Mike, you hit so many things bringing up AI 454 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: that one application of AI and how that represents a 455 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: security vulnerability. I'm curious what you think about AI from 456 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: the broader perspective of security, both potentially on the pro 457 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,959 Speaker 1: security side of using AI to do things like perhaps 458 00:20:56,040 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: even identify ann intrusion attempt, or maybe on the flip side, 459 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: because we're starting to hear reports about people leaning on 460 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: tools like generative AI in order to craft new types 461 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: of malware. There's a lot of conversation. It's very hard 462 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: to separate the truth from the speculation. So I'm curious 463 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: to hear from an expert what your perspective is on 464 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: the topic. 465 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 2: When it first came out, we said, okay, like you 466 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 2: have toys in the sandbox, let's go put in the 467 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,399 Speaker 2: sandbox and let's learn as much as we can about it, 468 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 2: not only for our internal use but also for how 469 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 2: we can guide our customers because we need to stay 470 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:32,679 Speaker 2: on top of what the new threats are that are 471 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 2: coming out and how these are being implied. We're looking 472 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 2: at different use cases. For example, internally, the pro things 473 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 2: is how can I take friction out? We're all challenged 474 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 2: with talent training people. So once I implement technology, what 475 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 2: can I do to eliminate how much effort it takes 476 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 2: to keep it running. So that's a big point. And 477 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 2: I've been in a lot of these roundtables in the 478 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 2: last few months on generative AI. And you can take 479 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 2: one approach and say, from a security standpoint, you can 480 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 2: block it, but when you do that, you're blocking innovation. 481 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 2: You can enable it, but then you're open yourself up 482 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,159 Speaker 2: to security and vulnerabilities. How do you govern it and 483 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 2: allow people to innovate in a secure way is the 484 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 2: key piece. It's really about how do we educate our people. 485 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,679 Speaker 2: It goes back to that GPS conversation, just telling people 486 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 2: this is a free version. Whatever you put in here 487 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:18,639 Speaker 2: goes in the public domain and everyone else in the 488 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 2: world is going to see it. I don't think people 489 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,399 Speaker 2: think about that because they don't study this topic. But 490 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 2: I think there's so many advances that we can do 491 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 2: around how we can use it to make some of 492 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 2: these routine decisions. Or I think about financial analysts, right, 493 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:33,879 Speaker 2: why do we have financial analysts because they tell us 494 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 2: what the data means? Well, if I can now use 495 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,680 Speaker 2: things like generative AI to look for the anomalies of 496 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 2: data and tell me what it means, you know, we've 497 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 2: seen that in some of the natural language based tools 498 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 2: out there from Tableau and answer rocket and thought spot. 499 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 2: How does that now take that to a whole new level. 500 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 2: How do we change the way we provide service to 501 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 2: our internal employees. You look at a company like move Works, 502 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 2: They've been doing some amazing things around how do we 503 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 2: provide better service to employees and get them what they 504 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,160 Speaker 2: need without making their way on a ticket and wait 505 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 2: for someone to respond, right, And so I think those 506 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 2: areas where we can reduce friction in our companies and 507 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 2: then help the analysis happen faster. I think there are 508 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 2: going to be key ways that we can leverage generative 509 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 2: AI for positive ways. 510 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 1: It's such a young technology too. I mean, it's been 511 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: in development for years, but really, when we're looking at 512 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:24,439 Speaker 1: generative AI that is truly working on an impressive level, 513 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,160 Speaker 1: we're talking about technology that's just a couple of years old, 514 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:31,400 Speaker 1: and really in the last six months we've seen stratospheric 515 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,479 Speaker 1: development in the space. I am also curious what's your 516 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: approach to evaluating a technology, Like how do you do 517 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 1: things like identify risk versus the value added of a 518 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 1: new technology. 519 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 2: There's a couple of pieces there, you know. I always 520 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:50,120 Speaker 2: encourage my peers to keep a pulse on what's going 521 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 2: on in the startup land. We see that disruption there, 522 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,639 Speaker 2: so always learn, like for example, Generative AI or year 523 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 2: ago we were all talking about metaverse, and then before 524 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 2: that it was blockchain, right, so you think about how 525 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 2: do you learn about it because you're probably going to 526 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 2: get asked. You know, your CEO is probably going to 527 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 2: ask you, hey, what do you think about this? The 528 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 2: best thing to do is understand what problems can it solve. 529 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 2: Oftentimes we get a technology we get enamored with and 530 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 2: it's like we're running around with the hammer and everything 531 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 2: looks like a nail and we're trying to figure out 532 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 2: how we can solve it with our hammer. And so 533 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 2: the first thing, the most important thing, is to understand 534 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 2: the business problems that you're trying to face and then 535 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 2: ask yourself does that technology help address the problems that 536 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 2: you're experiencing in your role today? Or ask the vendor 537 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 2: what are the problems you're solving? For other people because 538 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 2: they talk to a lot of different companies and learn, 539 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 2: And that's a coaching I give to every startup out 540 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 2: there is don't tell me about the cool feature you 541 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 2: have tell me about the outcome you're going to deliver. 542 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 2: What's the business problem I'm going to be able to 543 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 2: solve that I couldn't solve before, And so that's one 544 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 2: of the key things. So once you've centered on that, 545 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,200 Speaker 2: then the next piece is really then vetting the security. 546 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 2: You know, is it running in the right place? Have 547 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 2: they got the right safeguards? Have they got the right 548 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,680 Speaker 2: security environment. I'm fortunate if I have an amazing peer 549 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 2: as our cisso and Lamont Orange. That's you know, his 550 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 2: team does an amazing job partnering to make sure we're 551 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 2: doing safe innovation inside the company. And so I encourage 552 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,880 Speaker 2: people to make sure that you partner with your security 553 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:04,879 Speaker 2: teams and leaders to make sure that you're working in 554 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,679 Speaker 2: tandem to go evaluate those technologies again so you can 555 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 2: do safe innovation safe enablement across your organization. 556 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 1: Before I could let Mike go, I needed to ask 557 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:23,640 Speaker 1: him one more thing. What's the best piece of advice 558 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: you have ever received? 559 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,680 Speaker 2: He actually had a VP of marketing and she ended 560 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,919 Speaker 2: up becoming what I would consider a member of my 561 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,919 Speaker 2: personal board of directors. And she said, hey, I know 562 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:35,399 Speaker 2: you want to go start another company. She goes but 563 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 2: if you'll invest the time, I'll teach you all the 564 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 2: things you need to know to be successful in your 565 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,680 Speaker 2: career in business. Now, we all get these ideas that 566 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:43,679 Speaker 2: we think are the best idea, the best way to 567 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 2: solve a problem. And she was trying to give me 568 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,640 Speaker 2: again teaching. She said, next time we have a big idea, 569 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 2: I want you to sit down and think about what 570 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 2: are the alternative ways to solve the same problem. What 571 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:55,680 Speaker 2: are the other ideas that could potentially be used, And 572 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 2: I want you to put the same energy into those 573 00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 2: as you are the one that you came up with. 574 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 2: I want you to come present those to be and 575 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 2: I don't want to be able to know which one 576 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 2: that is the one you're most passionate about, her which 577 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 2: one was the idea you came up with first. The 578 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 2: reason that was such a good piece of advice was 579 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 2: because when you're presenting things, we always have a bias 580 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 2: for our idea, but we need to include the ideas 581 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 2: of others around us. And so that advice has helped 582 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 2: me throughout my career because it allows us to have 583 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 2: the view of other people. And then ultimately, if you 584 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 2: present the facts, the best idea will come forward. It 585 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 2: may not be the one you came up with the 586 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 2: first time. There may be a better approach. 587 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,120 Speaker 1: It's very similar to my personal philosophy, which is that 588 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: I never want to assume I'm the smartest person in 589 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,399 Speaker 1: the room, and so far that hasn't been a problem 590 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: because I'm around a lot of really smart people. Mike, 591 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: thank you once again for joining The Restless Ones. It's 592 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:44,160 Speaker 1: really been a pleasure. 593 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. It's been a 594 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 2: true honor to talk to you. Hopefully we have a 595 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 2: conversation again in the future. 596 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: Thanks again to Mike Anderson of netscope for joining the show. 597 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,719 Speaker 1: I think Mike's practical pro coach towards security is something 598 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,399 Speaker 1: we should all take to heart, even on an individual level, 599 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 1: and it's great to know that companies like netscope are 600 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: out there as a partner to help businesses achieve results 601 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 1: while keeping operations secure. And I'm thankful that Mike emphasized 602 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 1: that it's just as important to not let concern prevent 603 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: companies and people from embracing innovation. That if we try 604 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,120 Speaker 1: to hold off on taking advantage of innovation, we can 605 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: miss out on opportunities. There must be a balance between 606 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:35,879 Speaker 1: incorporating new solutions while also protecting the business. Yes, we 607 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:40,119 Speaker 1: must be concerned about introducing vulnerabilities, but not to the 608 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: extent that we talk ourselves out of trying new things. 609 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: Join us for more episodes of The Restless Ones this season, 610 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 1: as we talk with more forward thinkers and pioneers. Until 611 00:27:55,600 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: next time, I'm Jonathan Strickland, ZAP