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Speaker 1: On the Beck dol Cast, the questions asked if movies

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Speaker 1: have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends

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Speaker 1: and husbands or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef

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Speaker 1: in best start changing it with the beck del Cast.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Backdel Cast. My name's Cheney, my name's Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: and this is becktel Cast, the podcast about how women

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Speaker 1: are represented in movies. But today it's an episode we've

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Speaker 1: been waiting for a very long time to do, and

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited and it's going to be the best

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Speaker 1: day ever. It's Shrek Scheck. It's Shrek, but you're excited

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Speaker 1: about Shrek the musical, not Shrek the movie. I don't

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Speaker 1: like Check the movie. I love. I love Shrek the Musical.

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Speaker 1: It's the best Broadway musical ever committed to Broadway. Broadway Luminaries.

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Speaker 1: Luminaries Sutton Foster as Princess Fiona, Brian Darcy James as

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Speaker 1: Shrek himself. Um, I don't know who any of the

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Speaker 1: those people are. Your God, I'm very excited for I

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Speaker 1: have a lot of things to say about Shrek. I'm

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Speaker 1: very excited for for today. So so this is our

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Speaker 1: podcast about the Betel Test. Though, Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

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Speaker 1: If you don't know what that is, hey, i'll tell you.

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Speaker 1: Is it test you apply it to a movie or whatever.

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Speaker 1: It requires that there are two female characters with names

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Speaker 1: they talk to each other about anything other than a

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Speaker 1: man most movies. Spoiler, this movie does not do everyone

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Speaker 1: does not do very well at all in terms. But

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Speaker 1: the musical does better? Oh does it? Yes? Interesting? Shrek

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Speaker 1: the Musical is essentially just a way more dramatic version

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Speaker 1: of Shrek the movie. It's actually better because there's more

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Speaker 1: emotional depth. There's songs that sound like they could be

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Speaker 1: sung by Bon Jovi perhaps, but are instead being sung

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Speaker 1: by Shrek, which is like wild, it's crazy. Well, I'm

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Speaker 1: fascinated to see where this discussion goes. I'm so Excitedly,

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited. Let's introduced our guests before we get

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Speaker 1: much further. She's a comedian. She is the co founder

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Speaker 1: of Disoriented Comedy at scoot SKA. Welcome, Hi, Hi, thank

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Speaker 1: you for having me, Thank you so much for being here,

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Speaker 1: for pitching Trek. For some reason, it spoke to me.

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Speaker 1: That's amazing. Yeah, So what's your what's your personal history

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Speaker 1: of with Shrek? When did you first see the movie. Gosh,

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Speaker 1: I guess when when it first came out? Right, So one, two, one, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess. So it's crazy that Shrek has been in

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Speaker 1: our lives for this long sixteen years and honestly feels

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Speaker 1: like longer. I don't remember life before Shrek. There's part

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Speaker 1: two and it is, there are three, there's a three

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Speaker 1: and maybe all and a five in production. Gang and

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Speaker 1: Little did anyone in this room now a Broadway musical

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Speaker 1: that ran for four years. I knew about the musical.

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Speaker 1: I've seen like pictures of it, and just the aesthetic

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Speaker 1: of like Shrek and his makeup. I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I never want to see that. It's very scary. There's

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Speaker 1: a full taping of the Broadway production on Netflix. It's

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Speaker 1: been there for years. I'm pretty sure I'm the only

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Speaker 1: person who's ever watched it. But you can see Sutton

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Speaker 1: Foster really really humiliate herself and and she's in She's

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Speaker 1: in a show with Hilary Duff right now, so it's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, she's not afraid to do things that are

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Speaker 1: maybe a little embarrassing, but her playing Princess Fiona is

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Speaker 1: like man. And she got nominated for a Tony so

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Speaker 1: ups to Sutton Foster. Yeah, this was a This was

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Speaker 1: a very popular, successful musical in spite of the fact

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Speaker 1: that it was Shrek the musical and very scary to

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Speaker 1: look at. Well, Shrek the movie was enormously popular. Yes,

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Speaker 1: but the people dress, but people dressed a Shrek should

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Speaker 1: not have worked out. No, it's and if you look

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Speaker 1: at it, you're like, there's no, this is very scary.

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Speaker 1: It's the makeup scary. It's it's just like, we'll put

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Speaker 1: this in just like the green I mean, he's got

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Speaker 1: like big baldest head and like it's little ears on it.

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Speaker 1: It's a lot, which is what you said is great

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Speaker 1: because that is the theme of Shrek. Right, Oh wow, okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so they do Shrek in the movie. Yeah, they do. Okay,

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Speaker 1: there's no there's no compromise. Arguably, maybe they're kind have

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Speaker 1: been a little compromise, but I mean, I guess if

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Speaker 1: you're trying to get kids to go to it. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: and the whole point is, like, you know, it's not

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Speaker 1: what's on the outside, right, right, that's the of the story.

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Speaker 1: But with the cameras that close, and it's a it's

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Speaker 1: a Broadway musical, so you're not meant to be as

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Speaker 1: close as you can see them in the Netflix special,

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Speaker 1: because you can see just Brian Darcy James sweating through

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Speaker 1: his Shrek was given in a hundred time percent and

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Speaker 1: that's why he gets nominated for Tony's Yeah, because I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty sure Ogre's don't have pores, you know, and so

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Speaker 1: you can't for the realism of it. Yeah, the animated

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Speaker 1: Shrek seems very slick, right, Yeah, he's got hair, follicles,

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Speaker 1: he's got pores. Yeah. Well the Shrek, the Shrek of

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Speaker 1: the books is riddled with facial acne not And I'm

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Speaker 1: not shaming Shrek. I'm just saying I have a visual

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Speaker 1: of Shrek looking into wiping sweat off. Well, there's he's

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Speaker 1: got blackheads. He's got hair too. Yeah, yes, yes, I can.

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Speaker 1: I can relate. There's an opening scene, like the opening

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Speaker 1: credits in the movie. There's a like a whole montage

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Speaker 1: and Shrek is like getting a mud shower basically in

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Speaker 1: one of the shots, and you like turns around, you

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Speaker 1: see his nipples, you see his chest hair, he's got like,

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Speaker 1: oh he does have chest. I didn't remember that. I

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Speaker 1: just remember the mud blas. Yeah, I was looking for

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Speaker 1: the finer details. Human is he? Yeah, you know, he's

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Speaker 1: just like us. So you've just seen the first one? Yes,

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Speaker 1: I have only seen the first one. Yeah, I totally

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Speaker 1: the second one he has kids or something. The third

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Speaker 1: one he has kids. The second one is about him

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Speaker 1: meeting Fiona's parents. I own Shrek two on DVD. Brag

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Speaker 1: you see. Aristotle and I were trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: the difference between three and four. I don't think I

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Speaker 1: went as far. I've seen the third one. I haven't

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Speaker 1: seen the fourth one. See, we've seen the four one,

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Speaker 1: but neither of us. Have you even't seen the fourth one?

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I just made her will seem like more

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Speaker 1: of a freak than he actually is. I've seen one

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Speaker 1: to four in the musical a million times. I have

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Speaker 1: not seen three. So what's your personal experience? I saw

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Speaker 1: Shrek one in the theater the theater, the theater, not

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Speaker 1: the musical staj theater, just the movie theater. And but yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've seen Shrek probably a dozen times, quite a few times.

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Speaker 1: I've seen this movie a lot. What about you? Well,

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Speaker 1: this is one of my first of all, I'm sorry

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Speaker 1: in advance, but this is one of the few chances

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Speaker 1: I have on the podcast to shine in terms of

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Speaker 1: having knowledge of a movie, because usually I'll say I

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Speaker 1: watched it an hour ago, but this time I get

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Speaker 1: to say I have a grand history of the Shrek.

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Speaker 1: I did not see it in the theaters, but I

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Speaker 1: did see it. I've seen it many times. I got

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Speaker 1: very interested in the musical after being very afraid of

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Speaker 1: it when I watched it in college on Netflix. I

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Speaker 1: have since seen Shrek the Musical over ten times. I've

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Speaker 1: written quite a bit about it. I've sold my own

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Speaker 1: Shrek nudes on the Internet and raised three thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: for Planned Parenthood, and described for the listeners at home

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Speaker 1: who may not be familiar with your Shrek nudes, what

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Speaker 1: exactly do you mean by that? When I say my

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Speaker 1: Shrek nudes, I mean I'm painted myself green and took

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Speaker 1: a bunch of nudes and then seldom on the world

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Speaker 1: Wide Web, even though that wasn't their original purpose. Um,

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Speaker 1: therefore the next one. But I recycled them and uh

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Speaker 1: and and sold them for one of them many times

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Speaker 1: the government was trying to defund Plan Parenthood. This is

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Speaker 1: about two years ago. It seems to happen every month

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Speaker 1: so yeah, it was are one of those times. Unfortunately

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Speaker 1: we didn't say them with Shrek nudes, as I was

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Speaker 1: hoping we would. But I've seen Shrek the Musical over

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Speaker 1: ten times in three states, and I write about it

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Speaker 1: about once a year, and it is become an important

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Speaker 1: part of my life. And how similar is the musical

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Speaker 1: to the first movie? I would say that, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's the same story, but the way it's told is

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Speaker 1: very different. You learned aiming, even on a bass level.

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Speaker 1: You learn way more about Shrek as a character, and

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Speaker 1: you get more about his background and the first scene

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Speaker 1: of the musical than you get in the entire movie.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, we don't get much Shrek backstory you're doing later.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, in the in the musical, the first scene

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Speaker 1: is Little Shrek, which is always fun to see in

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Speaker 1: the musical because you see a young usually a young

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Speaker 1: husky boy, dressed as Shrek and his parents are singing

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Speaker 1: to him about how ogres have to be very tough

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Speaker 1: and they're hated by society and you have to be

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Speaker 1: really tough. And then I kick him out of the

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Speaker 1: house when he's seven years old to go and brave

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Speaker 1: the world himself. So automatically, you're like, man, Shrek's had

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Speaker 1: a hard life, whereas the movie is just sort of

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Speaker 1: like some funny ones and now and you don't find

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Speaker 1: out anything smash Mouth got about that sounds true. It

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Speaker 1: does not age. Well, here's something fun in strict the musical,

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Speaker 1: it still ends with smash mouths and they take their bows.

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Speaker 1: It's great, like they just got the right smash Mouth

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Speaker 1: was like, yeah, you can have that. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: smash Mother. I'm guessing they need to check sometimes here

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Speaker 1: at like Ross Yeah, yeah, and that songs a cover anyways,

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Speaker 1: Like that song is not smash Moth song. It's like

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Speaker 1: some sixty All Stars. There's a star is a smash Mouth,

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Speaker 1: the smash mouth a ridge. My favorite memorial tweet for

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Speaker 1: nine eleven every year is the smash Mouth one where

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Speaker 1: smash Mouth posts the same weird tweet every year of

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Speaker 1: like smash Mouth remembers nine eleven and it just has

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Speaker 1: a visual of those words and then like the silhouette

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Speaker 1: of the twin. I was like, why you like what bizarre?

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Speaker 1: The most bizarro tribute to nine eleven you'll find every

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Speaker 1: single year for like as long as Twitter has existed. Okay, well,

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Speaker 1: they're smash smash mouth, smash mouth. Let's do the recap.

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Speaker 1: Let's do it. Shrek is about an ogre named Shrek.

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Speaker 1: He's stinky, he loves mud. He just wants to be

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Speaker 1: left alone, and he lives in It's like I don't know,

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Speaker 1: Middle Ages whatever, like European my swamp kingdom thing, and

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Speaker 1: all these fairytale creatures get dumped on his swamp lawn

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Speaker 1: and he's like, wait a minute. But before that, he

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Speaker 1: meets Donkey, and Donkey is a talking donkey because Lord

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Speaker 1: far Quad is trying to round up all the fairytale creatures,

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Speaker 1: so he's like paying people to get rid of them

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Speaker 1: because he wants his perfect white kingdom without any growth

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Speaker 1: fairytale creatures. So all these people, all these fairytale creatures

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Speaker 1: end up on Shrek's thing, and he's like, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: go talk to this Lord far Quad. Meanwhile, Lord far

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Speaker 1: Quad is trying to be a king. In order to

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Speaker 1: do that, he has to marry a princess. But the

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Speaker 1: funny thing is he's short. He's short, he's hilarious, he's short,

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Speaker 1: and so therefore he's a little Napoleon, right. I wonder

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Speaker 1: if that is like a poke at Disney for having

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Speaker 1: like all like the short Daddies, well this whole movie

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Speaker 1: at Disney to the point where it's like why does

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Speaker 1: it exist? But we'll get there. But so Shrek's like, hey,

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Speaker 1: far Quad, get your ship off my land, and he's like,

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Speaker 1: go rescue a princess for me so I can be

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Speaker 1: king and marry her. So Shrek goes and rescues Princess Fiona.

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Speaker 1: She's locked on the highest tower of the tallest room

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Speaker 1: of the whatever. Another person who's too good to be

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Speaker 1: in this movie Cameron Diaz. I don't care much for

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Speaker 1: Cameron Dia. I don't either, but she's still too good

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Speaker 1: for this movie. She's got so hot critique. So he

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Speaker 1: goes to rest he and Donkey, who are friends at

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Speaker 1: this point, even though he's like, I don't like friends.

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Speaker 1: I don't have any friends. They go to rescue Princess

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Speaker 1: Fiona and she's like, wait a minute, you're an ogre gross.

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Speaker 1: I hate ogre's. I need to be rescued by my

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Speaker 1: true love so I can have true love's first kiss.

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Speaker 1: And they're like, why is that so important to you?

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Speaker 1: And then we find out it's because a spell had

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Speaker 1: been cast on her and she turns into an ogre

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Speaker 1: every night. But she and Shrek are like kind of

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Speaker 1: started to dig their vibing, vibing. They're lamping and they're vibing.

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Speaker 1: They're lamping together and they're starting to kind of vibe

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Speaker 1: a little bit. So the Donkeys like hey, and Donkey

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Speaker 1: discovers her secret. She keeps like best songs in the

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Speaker 1: musical song by Donkey, Yes, song by Donkey, when Shrek

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Speaker 1: and Fiona are vibing, so Brian, Darcy, James and and

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Speaker 1: Foster like we're sharing squirrel meat or whatever they're eating.

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Speaker 1: And then Donkey sings this whole song called Mega Move

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Speaker 1: and it's a funky like but he's like, make a move.

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Speaker 1: And then he brings in the three blind mice and

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Speaker 1: they do a solo and they're like these hot but

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Speaker 1: they're hot blind ladies. In this version, it's super fun.

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Speaker 1: It's a blast top to bottom. You gotta love it

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Speaker 1: all right. That's part of where the musical passes the

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Speaker 1: Bectel test. The three blind mice talk to each other

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Speaker 1: because they're all women, yeah I know, not all blind mice.

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Speaker 1: So Shrek and Fiona their vibe in but he overhears

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Speaker 1: this conversation between Donkey and Fiona where she's revealing that, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm an ugly ogre and I can't be this way

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Speaker 1: and I have to marry Lord Farquad so I can

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Speaker 1: be a beautiful, hot human lady the rest of my

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Speaker 1: life to lift the curse as one does. And Shrek

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Speaker 1: misinterprets this and things that she's talking about Shrek and

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Speaker 1: being like, who would love an ugly beast like an ogre?

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Speaker 1: So he gets all piste off and he like sells

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Speaker 1: her to Lord far Quad. Basically, this is where the

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Speaker 1: act one break in the musical is, and it's that's

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Speaker 1: the act one because that's that's like the end of

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Speaker 1: the movie almost, I know, I know, well, I mean

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Speaker 1: act one break is is more than halfway. But accidents

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Speaker 1: in theaters, I was thinking three act structure like screenplays.

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Speaker 1: I do have a master screen scream, so it makes

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Speaker 1: sense that he would think that. Um no, but in

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Speaker 1: terms of act one intermission act um so act one

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Speaker 1: is usually longer. But um yeah, there's this beautiful three

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Speaker 1: part of harmony. I've performed it at many a karaoke

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Speaker 1: with Shrek, Donkey and Fionna singing it's the song about

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Speaker 1: who I'd be. Shrek is singing about how he wants

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Speaker 1: to be a Viking. Donkey is thinking about how he

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Speaker 1: fears he's going to be alone for the rest of

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Speaker 1: his live Donkey if Toe saying about how her feminine

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Speaker 1: illusions are falling apart. It's a It's a beautiful go

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Speaker 1: see the musical. It's aid almost every junior high at

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Speaker 1: this point. It's off Broadway every junior high. I saw

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Speaker 1: it at Malibu Junior High last year, and it was bad.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like an expensive production to pull off, especially

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Speaker 1: for high school. Well that's yes, and there it's it's

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Speaker 1: this huge puppet that has two songs. Yeah, so that's

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Speaker 1: another place where it passes um. But anyways, so you

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Speaker 1: can you you sort of have to drive out to

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Speaker 1: wealthy I had to drive to Malibu because they can

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Speaker 1: afford to put on Shrek Junior right, but worth the trip.

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Speaker 1: Don't regret it. Glad to hear it. Yeah, So Fiona

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Speaker 1: goes off and there she's about to marry Lord far Quad,

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Speaker 1: and Donkeys like, Shrek, you fucking idiot. She likes you,

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Speaker 1: and he's like what okay, and then he goes and

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Speaker 1: storms the wedding and he's like, wait a minute, stop,

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Speaker 1: I love you. And then they Shrek and Fianna kiss

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Speaker 1: and she thinks it's lifting the spell. But because her

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Speaker 1: true love is Shrek and she takes true love's form,

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Speaker 1: she stays as an ogre and isn't a human anymore.

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Speaker 1: And she's like, I thought I wouldn't be mutiful and

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Speaker 1: he's like, you are mutiful, and then they get married

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Speaker 1: in the end hashtag relationship goals, and it's suddenly the

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Speaker 1: whole town is not scared of ogres anymore, right because

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Speaker 1: of feminist icon trac. Yeah, they were like it's time. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Well here's something that is bizarre. I mean, there's so

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Speaker 1: there's this movie like Baseline totally pointless, shouldn't exist, but

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Speaker 1: Lord Farquad's character is basically trying to like purify, you know,

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Speaker 1: like Hitler style, trying to purify the kingdom by marginalizing

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Speaker 1: anyone who is not human basically right and and created

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Speaker 1: by humans. Yeah, you know, it's I mean, it's kind

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Speaker 1: of it is kind of like gentrification or yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: forcing that like humans who have power made these rules,

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Speaker 1: human beings, made up fairy tales and then to suddenly

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Speaker 1: be like, no, no longer, you get ready get out

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Speaker 1: of here, which which yeah, these like imagination the Steak,

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Speaker 1: we don't see that, which again I don't think totally. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So you go to the swamp where we fear another

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Speaker 1: creature that we made up oker, you know, right, and

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Speaker 1: that's where you will be forced to stay, which you know,

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Speaker 1: there were no borders, so I don't know how that

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Speaker 1: was going to work. They basically all say like, go

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Speaker 1: to Shrek's house. Yeah, forced people out. They're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: Shrek has a house, go there, and then everyone's which

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Speaker 1: is another fun. All the Fairytale creatures have two numbers

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Speaker 1: in the musical, one and I one one to let

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Speaker 1: your freak Flag fly. Very inspiring. Okay, I guess I

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Speaker 1: gotta watch THEA was nominated for a Tony Kate what

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Speaker 1: I know. He could hit the high notes. He he

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Speaker 1: was on the ones that do. He's great. Pinocchio. We've

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Speaker 1: got next yeah, next, next spring season, We're gonna go.

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Speaker 1: It'll be a trip. It's I'm busy that day. Listen.

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Speaker 1: It's fun. It's a blast. So we're here to talk

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Speaker 1: about mostly the movie, although feel free to I will

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Speaker 1: continue to interject but thank you for. One of the

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Speaker 1: things about the movie is that there's pretty much only

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Speaker 1: one female character. You could argue that the dragon is female,

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Speaker 1: but that dragon doesn't have any lines and it's a dragon.

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Speaker 1: So there's essentially only one female character. Okay, in the movie,

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Speaker 1: there's one, and she's Fiona. There's a few other one

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Speaker 1: there's like you see some like fairy godmothers in like

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Speaker 1: a witch and stuff like that, but they usually don't

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Speaker 1: have lines, so there's really only primary right, So there's

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Speaker 1: one primary female character, Fiona. Uh. Immediately, she's framed as

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Speaker 1: like a damsel in distress, so she has to be saved,

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Speaker 1: she has to be rescued, so the trope stands strong dance.

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Speaker 1: They I mean, they subverted to an extent to the

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Speaker 1: point where it might be uncomfortable for people, not to

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Speaker 1: the point where she's the dominant one in the relationship.

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Speaker 1: But this, I mean, this whole movie is based on like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's post modern fairy tales, which is grow up whatever,

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Speaker 1: like dumb, but yeah, I don't know, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: this movie does a lot to sort of subvert the

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Speaker 1: tropes of fairy tales, mostly in a very obnoxious, egregious

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Speaker 1: way totally. But at the end of the day, the

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Speaker 1: movie is still about like a woman needing to be

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Speaker 1: saved by a man via being kissed by her one

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Speaker 1: true love to break this enchantment. It's like one very

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Speaker 1: heteronormative no surprise there, and too why Okay, So later

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Speaker 1: in the movie we see a scene where Robin Hood

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Speaker 1: comes and like tries to take her away and rescue

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Speaker 1: her again, and then she beats the show out of

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Speaker 1: him and all the merry men. If she's capable of that,

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Speaker 1: why didn't she just save herself from being in the

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Speaker 1: tower kick the Dragon's ask herself go to the witch's

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Speaker 1: house who put the spell on her in the first place,

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Speaker 1: and be like, fucking undo this, you ask whole Well,

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Speaker 1: in theory, she was like beholden by the belief right

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Speaker 1: that she had that this is what had to happen.

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Speaker 1: But that's not well, it was never established. Well, maybe

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Speaker 1: she thinks that she has to be rescued, but when

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Speaker 1: she's describing the nature of the spell to Donkey, all

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Speaker 1: she says is I need to kiss my one true love.

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Speaker 1: So like, it's not clear why love she could have

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Speaker 1: been active and not insanely fucking passive, got it right, Well,

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Speaker 1: there's that problem with you. There is the problem that

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Speaker 1: Shrek and Donkey and this entire movie don't respect women.

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Speaker 1: Here are some examples, different comments that Shrek makes snow

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Speaker 1: white ends up on his table and he's like dead

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Speaker 1: broad off the table rack. It's the moment where they're

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Speaker 1: entering the castle where the dragon lives. Donkeys like, so,

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Speaker 1: where is this fire breathing pain in the neck anyway?

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Speaker 1: And Shrek said inside waiting for us to rescue her

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Speaker 1: feminist icon miss disappointing that quick one. Yeah, that's why

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Speaker 1: I watched these movies eight thousand times and pick up

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Speaker 1: all the stuff. Musical Shrek way less misogynical, were insecure,

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Speaker 1: Oh that would be appropriate and a little bit jittering,

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Speaker 1: and it's just like, yeah, to talk to girls. But

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Speaker 1: in the movie, Shrek is constantly terrible, pushing her away,

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Speaker 1: tossing her, throwing her, like a lot of physical violence.

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Speaker 1: There's at least one point where he slams her down

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Speaker 1: on the ground as like shut up. Yeah, it happens

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Speaker 1: a lot in the movie. Oh Um, there's a moment

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Speaker 1: when Donkey is telling Shrek to like wait till the

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Speaker 1: right moment to crash the wedding basically, and he's like,

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Speaker 1: chicks love that romantic crap. So just putting us all

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Speaker 1: on a box, which is weird because he's been living

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Speaker 1: alone for so long to know these even how he

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Speaker 1: knows dating and chicks. And if he had been kicked

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Speaker 1: out at seven as well, and I've been living in

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Speaker 1: that and just been hanging out with mud and slugs

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Speaker 1: and stuff, I don't know how he would know that, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's true. Well I don't know. Maybe well, first of all,

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Speaker 1: maybe seven in like older years is like maybe he's

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Speaker 1: actually twenty five when he got kicked out. Sure, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so his dad treated his mom right, But but that's

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Speaker 1: not but that's not cannon to the movie. It's okay,

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Speaker 1: yes I have. But in there I think I feel

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Speaker 1: like in later Shrek movies, which I don't remember, is

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Speaker 1: clearly that they address his background at some point. And

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Speaker 1: maybe that's where the musical drew it from. Because the

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Speaker 1: musical was released in oh eight. Maybe it was also

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Speaker 1: all adapted from a book, or at least the first

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Speaker 1: a wonderful book by William Steeg, who's a great New

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Speaker 1: Yorker cartoonist. And I recommend the original, where Shrek is

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Speaker 1: kind of just a villain who's forced to look at

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Speaker 1: himself in a very existential way. Thus my favorite illustration

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Speaker 1: from the book, which is Shrek the Illustrated Trek in

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Speaker 1: a hall of mirrors looking back at a thousand tracks,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, it's us, it's society. Interesting anyways, well

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Speaker 1: back to the back to the bashing, to the beautiful

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Speaker 1: source material with the dragon too, even though we we

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Speaker 1: don't count her as a full speaking female role, when

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Speaker 1: when she realized, like what stops her from being violent

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Speaker 1: is like, I guess lust because she wants to donkey.

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Speaker 1: Yeah she yeah, exactly, she sees something that she likes

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Speaker 1: and and suddenly suddenly she has these long eyelashes that

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Speaker 1: she's fluttering. And I'm going to stop my one dimensional

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Speaker 1: character ways, which is I just breathe fire and stop

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Speaker 1: people unless I fall in love with a with a

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Speaker 1: donkey dude. And she does. Yeah, that's interesting. And you

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Speaker 1: could sort of make the same argument for Cameron Diaz

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Speaker 1: for Princess Fiona of like, you know, it's not until

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Speaker 1: they meet a male love interest that they're like suddenly

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Speaker 1: these dimensions are released or like empowered and somehow, like

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Speaker 1: in theory, I feel like we're led to believe if

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Speaker 1: Shrek and Doggy didn't show up, Fiona and the Dragon

419
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,399
Speaker 1: would not have changed on their own. Oh totally not.

420
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 1: Like Fiona is like the only thing about her character,

421
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 1: especially at the beginning, is that I need to find

422
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 1: my true love or my true love needs to rescue me.

423
00:24:54,720 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: It's like incredibly one dimensional. In the musical, Okay, Fiona

424
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: is locked up in a tower by her parents on

425
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 1: Christmas Eve, and her parents are holding her hostage because

426
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 1: they're telling her that until her husband shows up that

427
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 1: they were not going to release her. I think, actually

428
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,360
Speaker 1: you learned something to that effect in Shrek two. Well

429
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 1: then there you go. So beautiful, beautiful song called um

430
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 1: I Know It's Today, sung by three different Fiona's young Fiona,

431
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 1: teenage Fiona, and of course Sutton Foster, who makes quite

432
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 1: the entrance in that song. Um anyways, nominated for a

433
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 1: Tony snubbed for someone who probably did a better job

434
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 1: doing something else. Back to the Dragon, though, Uh, the

435
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 1: point I wanted to make about that is that it

436
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 1: drives me nuts in a movie or TV show or whatever,

437
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: that there is a character who you don't really know

438
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: what the gender is at first, and then the reveal

439
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: is it's a girl, Like oh, that cop that takes

440
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 1: off its helmet and gets off a motorcycle that was

441
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,919
Speaker 1: actually a woman, because it's like, how fucking stupid is it? That?

442
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 1: Like being a woman is somehow like a bonkers reveal? Right, right,

443
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 1: it's supposed to be like more impressive or or the

444
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,879
Speaker 1: flaws make more sense that yeah, or just like the

445
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,239
Speaker 1: thing that where I I mean, I get why they

446
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: do it, I get what they're doing when that happens.

447
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 1: It's like this thing that you're socialized to believe is

448
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: usually a man actually a girl. Surprised, but it's just

449
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 1: like annoying that that has to be a reveal like that.

450
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 1: There are isn't just like representation of women in roles

451
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,120
Speaker 1: like that where we would just be like, oh, sure

452
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: that's a girl because we see that as a woman

453
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: all the time. Well, and and another bit character that

454
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:54,479
Speaker 1: is deeply problematic that appears more in later movies and

455
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: appears in the musical, to the point where future incarnations

456
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 1: of the musical scrubbed this lyric kept in one production

457
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: I saw in Massachusetts, which was like get rid of it.

458
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,880
Speaker 1: But anyways, I spoke with the director of the Whole Thing,

459
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: but the Big bad Wolf in the movie, there's a

460
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: lot of transphobic jokes at me that character's expense. And

461
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: even in the musical there's a song like something something

462
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,639
Speaker 1: something dressed they called me a hot and tranny mess

463
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,399
Speaker 1: and what was the right and which was in the

464
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 1: original musical anno it, but then they took it out

465
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: because they were just like, Oh, that's fucking nightmare. That's terrible.

466
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 1: You can't say that. Um and and that's like kind

467
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 1: of what this movie boils down to from a feminist

468
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 1: perspective of It's like it's sort of like, oh, the

469
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 1: female it's a badass, but just never in a way

470
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 1: that is actually threatening or challenging to patriarchal standards. Like

471
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 1: she's allowed to kicking her favorite mixed me needs article.

472
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: She kicks and she gets to fight a little bit,

473
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: but never in a way that super affects the plot,

474
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:04,159
Speaker 1: never in a way that that challenges the heteronormative fairy

475
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: tale standards of she has to end up with a guy,

476
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: whether it's the tiny misogynist or the larger misogynist, and

477
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 1: that seems like I said, feel it feels so unearned

478
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: when she's like kicking Robin Hood's ass, because it's like, well,

479
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 1: if you could do that, and if you had the

480
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 1: agency to do that, why didn't you have the agency

481
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: to choose your own destiny and like go after what

482
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 1: you actually wanted. If marrying a dude is what you want, fine,

483
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 1: but like then go out and get it. Like it

484
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: just it was insane to me that she was so

485
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 1: passive and just like literally waiting around to be rescued,

486
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: because I think I think maybe the writers were focused

487
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: more on undoing fairy tales in general, but not necessarily

488
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 1: doing it in a refreshing way. They're like, fairy tales

489
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: are still about the damsel and distress, but for them

490
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: to be like, oh, you know what we're gonna do

491
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: is just constantly remind do that you're watching a fairy

492
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: tale getting undone. But we're not quite there yet with

493
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 1: being ready to have the female character be the lead

494
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: or the one that can choose her own adventure, and

495
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 1: we're not quite ready for those. Yeah, I think it

496
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: wasn't ready to like maybe Tangled or Fave or you know,

497
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: yeah it had to be Moana or yeah, I haven't

498
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: seen those three films that I just named. Moah, No,

499
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: I gotta see Moana. I did watch Tangled. I feel like,

500
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: was she more independent? I don't even I think, But

501
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 1: still the guy was a little bit too involved. Okay,

502
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: okay had to show up. Yeah I remember her being

503
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:45,239
Speaker 1: like snippier than regular princesses. But yeah, I think they

504
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: were still focused on, like people are used to still

505
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: the idea of like the fairy tale. Let's just make

506
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: fun of the idea of fairy tale, but it's still patriarchal,

507
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Absolutely. I mean I think

508
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 1: that this whole movie is built on and so much

509
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 1: of like so much of Shrek, And this goes into

510
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: this whole thing that I think about a lot because

511
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: I don't have a life. Um is like, how basically

512
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 1: dream Works was this company that was formed to spite Disney,

513
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 1: who do these fairy tale stories constantly, and so Shrek

514
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 1: was just essentially meant to be a big middle finger

515
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 1: from Jeffrey Katzenberg, who produced some really famous Disney like

516
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: Renaissance movies. UM as a big middle finger to be like,

517
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: oh look, I did all this great work and then

518
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: you fucking fire me or whatever. The falling out was

519
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: there and now I have DreamWorks and now we're just

520
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: because I fulk you to Disney all the time, and

521
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 1: doesn't really take the time to do that in a

522
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 1: very thoughtful or interesting way, because even when like Princess

523
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 1: Fiona is doing the kick thing and in theory like

524
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: total just on paper that sounds very cool, but really

525
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: all that does is earn her respect in the eyes

526
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: of the men she's traveling with. Other than that, there's

527
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 1: not a bit effect on the plot because up until

528
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 1: the point, Shrek was like just mostly found her as

529
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: a nuisance, and then when you see from the ground,

530
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: he just does that. Even after that happens, but he

531
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,719
Speaker 1: finds her a total nuisance. And then as soon as

532
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: he witnesses that whole like fight scene, he's like, well,

533
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: I'm not going to beat her up anymore. So he

534
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: does not throw her on the ground. In the musical

535
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 1: thank You Very Much Good, I think that that's probably

536
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: just a sudden, faster thing. She's like, I will not

537
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,239
Speaker 1: be thrown I'm I'm the Queen of Broadway. I will

538
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: not be thrown on the ground. I mean, I think

539
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: this movie, although it does not handle this that well,

540
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: and I'll explain why in a moment. But the moral

541
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 1: of the story, is we already mentioned, is that like,

542
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 1: you should judge people based on their character, and you

543
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 1: should get to know people before you judge them, and

544
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what you look like, and your important

545
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 1: thing is the content of your character. However, one of

546
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: the reasons they don't really reinforce that in the story

547
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: is that it's like pretty heavily can firmed that. Like

548
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 1: Fiona when she is an ogre, they're like, yeah, you're

549
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 1: definitely ugly. She's like, I'm ugly, and Donkey's like, yep,

550
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 1: you're You're for sure ugly. And the thing is though,

551
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 1: that like she basically looks exactly like she does as

552
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: a human, except she's green and she's heavier, So they're

553
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 1: basically equating being fat to being ugly, which is incredibly problematic.

554
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 1: And then on top of that, they do they do

555
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 1: that with Trek's character as well. Yeah they do. Yeah,

556
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: any otherness is not accepted by farads right, and the

557
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 1: movie is trying to say, like, no, you can still

558
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: be ugly and you're you're still you can still be likable,

559
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 1: But they're not. I mean, in the end, there's that

560
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: line where she's like, I thought I was going to

561
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 1: be beautiful and trucks like you are beautiful, But it's

562
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 1: still sort of like, I think implied that only Shrek

563
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 1: could find her beautiful because he's also an ogre, and

564
00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 1: like she's still not because she doesn't adhere to like

565
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: western beauty standards were as the whole you are so beautiful,

566
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: but only to me, because that, to me is what

567
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 1: makes it like whoa, why can't you just end it

568
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 1: at you are so beautiful? You know? Right? Well? And

569
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: then what do we think of the ending of sort

570
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 1: of it's it's implied, especially in the back half of

571
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: the movie whence Donkey finds out that Fiona's night form

572
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: is as an ogre, where he's like, well, Shreks and Ogre,

573
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: you should hang out with him, where it's like, I

574
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: don't know, like and this has been on and I

575
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 1: don't think originally, you know, it was like eight or

576
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 1: nine in this movie, I didn't have the language to articulated.

577
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,959
Speaker 1: I was like, well, are we to believe? You know?

578
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 1: By the end, when Fiona turns out that loves true

579
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 1: form for her as she's an ogre if she had

580
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 1: been a human with that have not been okay, Like

581
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 1: can only like and like belong together in this universe

582
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 1: and what does that mean? And like is that that

583
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 1: never has sat well with me? Like that just seems

584
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: like a weird backwards thing to I feel like, um,

585
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: gay and lesbian people experienced this a lot, where like, like,

586
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 1: you're gay, I have a gay friend. You should meet

587
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 1: my gay friend. And it's like, well, well if I

588
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 1: don't like that, there, yeah they're there. Yeah, there's like

589
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 1: a pretty good chance you wouldn't want to date him.

590
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,479
Speaker 1: But people are just like, oh, because you're both gay,

591
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 1: you should hang out, and it's like no, so yeah,

592
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: runding me of that that happens to people of color

593
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:27,839
Speaker 1: to where it's like, oh, you would love my black

594
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 1: guy friend. You know he's single to another black girl.

595
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 1: You know, oh really quick to like going back to

596
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,919
Speaker 1: like it's it's it's not what's on the exterior, it's

597
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 1: what's on the interior. If that was the case, to like,

598
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: Shrek in actuality is not very likable, Like he's an asshole.

599
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: Neither is Fiona. Yeah not either, And so I'm you know,

600
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 1: I'm confused about that being the message initially because it's

601
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 1: like if I've you know, Shrek, I've known people like Shrek,

602
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 1: that's like, no me alone, I'm a grumpy person because

603
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,359
Speaker 1: like people don't understand me, and so in turn there

604
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 1: an asshole. They let tragedy turn them into an asshole,

605
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: and uh, they are hard to get along with. So

606
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, tell me what I have to hang

607
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: on to if I'm supposed to fall in love And

608
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: that's I mean, I think maybe that in terms of

609
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 1: the way that masculinity has portrayed a lot in pop culture,

610
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: that that is sort of a common thing to do.

611
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:25,760
Speaker 1: I like, well, he's an asshole because he just doesn't

612
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,280
Speaker 1: know how to express himself. So you have to accept

613
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: the fact that he's an asshole to you, usually a

614
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: female character, because he just doesn't know. He just doesn't know,

615
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 1: and you just have to deal with it. And then

616
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,840
Speaker 1: you got to soften him up, you gotta fix it.

617
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 1: Inshol to people who never let sour things turn them

618
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: sour and are nice. Right, that's an insult to people

619
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 1: who are actually nice, even if maybe on the exterior,

620
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know what I mean, Like right, like,

621
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 1: I think it's it's cutting you know, and no matter

622
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: you know. Obviously that's not to discount any character or

623
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 1: person's experience, but you can't always cut someone that much

624
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 1: slack of like, you can't just be an asshole to

625
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: everybody because you're like so insecure in your masculinity you

626
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: can't express yourself, you know, or like you had a

627
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,800
Speaker 1: difficult childhood and that's all valid, and that's all character stuff.

628
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,240
Speaker 1: But don't be surprised if people don't like you because

629
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 1: of it. Right, there should be a consequences for being

630
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 1: an ass always, even like Donkey, there's a scene where

631
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: after they've like gone on the whole journey and Fiona

632
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 1: is hanging out with far Quad Donkeys all like, oh,

633
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 1: you treat me badly and you undermine me and Doto

634
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,360
Speaker 1: and all this stuff, and shreks like why are you

635
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: still hanging around then, which is a legitimate question because

636
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 1: like Donkey, why are you letting this person emotionally abuse you?

637
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: And Donkey's like, because that's what friends are for. They

638
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,280
Speaker 1: forgive each other, which like feels like a wrong message

639
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 1: to send to people. It's like, if someone's like being

640
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 1: abusive torn you maybe don't forgive them. If that's if

641
00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 1: it's their character to be a complete fucking asshole. I

642
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 1: would argue the more powerful, the most powerful relationship in

643
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 1: this movie is Shrek and Donkey and in the musical.

644
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: But it's like Shrek and Donkey have more songs together

645
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 1: the Shrek and Fiona do with the musical. Dude, but whatever,

646
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,439
Speaker 1: I mean. But but there is more emphasis placed on

647
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 1: I guess Shrek and Fiona's relationship is more integral to

648
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: the plot, but in terms of characterization, it's way more

649
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 1: Shrek and Donkey, if like they have you know these

650
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,959
Speaker 1: Originally Shrek rejects him and he's like, no, I'm fun,

651
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 1: It's okay, you can come, and then they have a

652
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 1: falling out, and then they have a reunion, and then

653
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 1: it's like there's just more in general. So I don't know.

654
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 1: I hadn't thought of that until I watched it this

655
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,760
Speaker 1: last time, watching specifically for how female characters are treated.

656
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: And granted, you know, Shrek and Fiona have a falling out,

657
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 1: but it's based on a misunderstanding and then he sells her,

658
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:01,240
Speaker 1: only to return and marry her without her ever saying wait,

659
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 1: you sold me because you got mad and you didn't

660
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 1: even ask me what I did, Like that should be

661
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:10,359
Speaker 1: a problem, right of like you overheard something and then

662
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,919
Speaker 1: you sold me to a hitler, Like what are you doing?

663
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 1: You know? But she's like, no, you're right. The son's

664
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: about to set let's marry right, right, Like, let's make

665
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 1: out he didn't remember the Donkey Donkey actually apologizing to

666
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: He goes like, because friends forgive each other, and then yeah,

667
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: and then Shrek says he forgives Donkey, but like, I

668
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 1: don't really know what Donkey did wrong besides just getting

669
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 1: close with Fiona. I don't know. I think it was

670
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: because Donkey didn't tell Shrek because he promised Fiona he

671
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:45,840
Speaker 1: wouldn't tell. Oh, it's part of the misunderstanding. He Shrek

672
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:47,720
Speaker 1: was all like, oh, they're buddy, buddy, and they're ganging

673
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 1: up on me, and but like that's not what was happening.

674
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: So if Donkey did apologize, he didn't need to to

675
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 1: this point of like, which goes back to the point

676
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 1: of like, that's a weird that is the weird message

677
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 1: to give. Let's if kids are watching this and going like, oh,

678
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 1: that's how it should be a friend. If they wronged me,

679
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: I apologize and I should forgive anyway, even if I

680
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 1: didn't do anything wrong, I don't know. I don't know

681
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: what the demographic is of this film. I mean it's

682
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 1: more it's pretty wide. Well it's kids and adults. Like

683
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 1: there was enough like adult humor that adults can appreciate

684
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 1: it if you're the lowest common denominator, yeah, small penis

685
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 1: jokes and stuff, right, yeah, I mean like that's and

686
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 1: this is another like DreamWorks movie thing where there's what

687
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 1: happens in DreamWorks movies, but this is like the first

688
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:37,839
Speaker 1: very successful one where this movie is like pushing post

689
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: modern drugs to the point where, for the most part,

690
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 1: this movie, in theory is for kids. You can bring

691
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 1: your kids to see it because most of the drugs

692
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:46,919
Speaker 1: will fly over their head. But to the point where

693
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: it's like do these kids even know what is being

694
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 1: riffed on? Like do they know the source material of

695
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 1: these four billion fairy tales? And do they know? And

696
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 1: you know, so it is made more for stupid adults

697
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: who don't have a sorry, people who love his movie

698
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 1: but like you know, don't have a developed enough brain

699
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: to laugh at anything other than like I heard that,

700
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,959
Speaker 1: I've heard of that. I've heard it because that's oh

701
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:17,839
Speaker 1: my god a song. It's funny because the ogre thing

702
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 1: of the song, like there's just so little thought put

703
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:25,240
Speaker 1: into any joke. It's infuriating. It's and then another note

704
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 1: on the comedy is that like Shrek is always cracking drunks,

705
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 1: they're not that funny, but at least he's like making jokes.

706
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:36,240
Speaker 1: Man Donkey is by and large like the comic relief

707
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 1: of the movie. Even far Quad gets some like funny moments.

708
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 1: Fiona like, she doesn't get any funny a lot. I

709
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,320
Speaker 1: feel like none of the comedy in the movie is

710
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 1: given to her, Like she's never given an opportunity to

711
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,240
Speaker 1: make people laugh except for maybe the one the nod

712
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 1: to like the matrix thing where she's like which is

713
00:40:53,120 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 1: another but like, yeah, there's just she doesn't get any well.

714
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:09,719
Speaker 1: Her character sucks. She's like a brat, she's entitled, she's passive.

715
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 1: This movie does a little bit more than other movies

716
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: in terms of like showing why the two characters might

717
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:17,839
Speaker 1: like each other, but it's all very superficial stuff where

718
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, they both burp and they both like

719
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: to and again that's her earning his respect by being

720
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 1: more like him. Right, being more like a man is.

721
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 1: She's like, let me take this snake and turn it

722
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 1: into a trick called dick balloon Fionta. So yeah, I

723
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 1: don't like her character in any way, and the attempts

724
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:47,760
Speaker 1: at the movie does make it like because so often

725
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:49,919
Speaker 1: you see in a movie where it's like a man

726
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: is a lead and he has a love interest, and

727
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 1: you're never really sure why they'd be interested in each

728
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 1: other because the female characters usually so poorly developed that

729
00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 1: it makes no sense why they would end up together.

730
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 1: But like, she's hot, so he likes her, and that's

731
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: good enough. I think the movie does a little bit

732
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 1: tiny more than most movies to develop that romantic relationship,

733
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 1: but it's still not enough, so I think, and I

734
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 1: think it is interesting just a quick acknowledgement of how

735
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:24,240
Speaker 1: Shrek has aged into now where largely except with children

736
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 1: and adults who saw it when they were stupid and

737
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:30,359
Speaker 1: have not gotten smarter or more critically thinking since two

738
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 1: thousand and one, which God help those people. But there's

739
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:37,439
Speaker 1: been this huge subculture that's developed if people making fun

740
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 1: of Shrek for how derivative and lame, and you know,

741
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 1: just a movie that really takes pleasure on feeling very

742
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 1: cutting edge while accomplishing nothing, you know, And there's this

743
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 1: whole subculture for it online and some of them at

744
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 1: this point it's pretty much extinct, and that's good. But

745
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 1: you know, like I'm sure some of our listeners would

746
00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:00,280
Speaker 1: recognize the Shrek is Love, Shrek is Life video those

747
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 1: and like all these I'll show them to you. They're

748
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 1: gonna I don't know about these, Dang, they're going to

749
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:08,399
Speaker 1: bloil your mind. There was this there's this PC game

750
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,399
Speaker 1: that came out around the time Shrek the movie did,

751
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 1: and people found it maybe ten to twelve years after

752
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 1: the movie came out, and started making these very bizarre

753
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 1: sketches using the Shrek characters, um that were very like

754
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 1: hyper sexual and demonized Trek and condemned the character. And

755
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 1: and sometimes they're very funny. Sometimes they were too dark

756
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: and like don't want those ones. Um. There's also a

757
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 1: subculture for Jimmy Neutron as well. But anyways, all that

758
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 1: to say, Shrek, I would argue, is not a movie

759
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 1: that has aged well and anyway and kind of in

760
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 1: a in a in a pop culture way, hasn't been

761
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: as accepted down in the line. I mean Shrek five

762
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 1: is going to make a million dollars, but it's not

763
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: going to have as many only a million dollars. That's

764
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 1: terrible for me. Sorry, billion, a billion, trillion. It's gonna

765
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 1: make ten times with boss baby mate or that you

766
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 1: much in are the EMI movie probably feminist icon the

767
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 1: EMGI um but um. But you know, all I have

768
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 1: to say, like Shrek five will and this is not

769
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 1: saying a lot, but probably be more conscientious of its

770
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: audience than I would Shrek that came out two months

771
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 1: before nine eleven, you know, like it really was just like, yeah,

772
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 1: what was subversive in two thousand and one is deeply problematic. Now, yeah, right,

773
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 1: I'll show you Shrek his live Shrek is Life. I'm

774
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 1: excited to see that. Yeah. Does anyone have any other

775
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 1: final thoughts about the movie? I don't think so. I'm

776
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 1: gonna watch two, three, four, and five. I guess the

777
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:48,359
Speaker 1: musical musical because besides them having kids and him meeting

778
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 1: her parents and maybe finding about his his parents, I

779
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 1: don't know. Maybe it'll be cool to see like the

780
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 1: fifth one be like his daughter, Shrek Woke, Shrek Girl,

781
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 1: Shrek Girl, Shrek All Female reboot of Shrek yeah, something

782
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 1: you're Shrek falls in love with Fiona non or like

783
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 1: maybe it doesn't fallinary just trying to get a job

784
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 1: and it's hard. Yeah. Yeah, a female Shrek tries to

785
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 1: negotiate a salary is the salary. But also also I

786
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 1: did one more thing to throw in for Shrek three,

787
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,720
Speaker 1: the only Shrek movie I have not seen. It turns

788
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,879
Speaker 1: out that came out in No. Seven and already the

789
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 1: Shrek culture was so such a joke that Tim and

790
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 1: Eric were the first people to jump on promoting Shrek

791
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: three as a great It's been a joke for well

792
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:46,360
Speaker 1: over ten years now. Um, and I would recommend watching

793
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 1: the Tim and Eric Shrek three promovid this one because

794
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 1: they were issued a cease and desist. That's amazing. Let

795
00:45:55,640 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: us discuss whether or not the movie passes the Buchtel test. Sure, no,

796
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 1: not sorry, there were there even on any opportunities when

797
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 1: were two women in the same scene. I mean in

798
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 1: the beginning, when all the fairytale creatures are in Shreks swamp,

799
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 1: there are like a few fairy godmothers. Uh, there's no

800
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 1: white but she is unconscious. Oh that's the other thing

801
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 1: I wanted to say. End at the wedding. Oh yeah,

802
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 1: at the end. So you see her in the beginning

803
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 1: in like the like glass casket thing, sleeping unconscious, so

804
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 1: she can't talk um. In the end though, she and

805
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:39,839
Speaker 1: Cinderella flap each other whenever Fiona is trying to throw okay, yeah,

806
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 1: perpetuating that like do they talk or do they just

807
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 1: they do not speak each other because they want the

808
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 1: book so bad, because because that means they want to

809
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 1: they'll getting married next god damn it. And then first

810
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 1: of all, I want to know that, well someone, she's

811
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:05,799
Speaker 1: probably kissing her consensually. You cannot have consent when you're

812
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:07,800
Speaker 1: in a coma. That's what we need. A gro shop.

813
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 1: We've all seen kill Bill. Yeah, no, you will get

814
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:16,919
Speaker 1: what she she attacks with her mouse Aristotle. Snow White

815
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 1: comes back in later Shrek movies. Right, she comes back

816
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 1: in Shrek three. I don't know, she's in the trailer

817
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 1: for three, so she keeps coming. I mean that she's

818
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:31,399
Speaker 1: not represented better and and granted, with snow White, you're

819
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 1: presented with an uphill battle for a moment one sure,

820
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 1: especially whenever Lord Farquad finds like the magic mirror on

821
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 1: the wall and he's like, how do I become a king,

822
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:42,360
Speaker 1: and he's like, you got to marry one of these princesses.

823
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 1: So he does this whole like Bachelor at number one,

824
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 1: something like Cinderella is a mentally abused shut in whose

825
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:50,839
Speaker 1: hobbies are cooking and cleaning for her two evil sisters.

826
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 1: First of all, probably not have hobbies. Yeah, at least

827
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 1: say sudn't believe it. I don't know. But then like

828
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:58,799
Speaker 1: it's kind of like it's like shaming her for it,

829
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 1: like she's on her fault that she used abused. But

830
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, she's not a viable cannon because she's

831
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 1: been abused by men. And then they talk about snow white.

832
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:10,719
Speaker 1: The joke is, even though she loves with seven other men,

833
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 1: she's not easy. And then just kiss her dad frozen

834
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 1: lips and find out what a live wire she is.

835
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 1: Or don't kiss a sleeping, unconscious woman. Don't ever do that. Yeah,

836
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 1: and then it's sort of presented or this is was

837
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 1: my read of the scene that far Quad is pressured

838
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 1: by the people, you know, his like thugs or whatever

839
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:34,360
Speaker 1: around him to choose Fiona because she's the least damaged

840
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 1: sounding of the three. But then the mirror is like,

841
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 1: but also, wait, I should tell you that thing that

842
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 1: at that point coming up in forty five minutes, you know.

843
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:46,359
Speaker 1: And and so he chooses her because she sounds like

844
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:50,799
Speaker 1: the least bogged down by her circumstances that are not

845
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 1: her fault. But that's not even true, you know, I

846
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 1: hate it. Oh. The other thing I wanted to point

847
00:48:56,640 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: out is that Shrek rescues Fiona a night passes. The

848
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 1: next day, like they got off to a rocky start,

849
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 1: he keeps throwing her on the ground. It The next

850
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 1: day she kills a bird with her voice and then

851
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 1: steals the bird. She steals the eggs and like cooks them.

852
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 1: And her way of like making a nice gesture to

853
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 1: be like, hey, let's make amends is to cook them

854
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 1: food he cooks for her later. True, like the weed

855
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:32,359
Speaker 1: rat weed rats. Right, So I let that go on

856
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:35,799
Speaker 1: the basis that he reciprocated it. Okay, that's fair. But

857
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 1: I was just like, oh, she's doing good domestic chore, right,

858
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:41,319
Speaker 1: and maybe in you know, she probably conditioned to think

859
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 1: that's what you should do, right, right. I wondered where

860
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:46,400
Speaker 1: she would cook in that that space she was in

861
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 1: for so long. Yeah, did she have access to a kitchen. Well,

862
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 1: in the musical, she says she had a hot plate. Okay, good,

863
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:59,799
Speaker 1: I mean I worry about these things in a chamber poto.

864
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:02,360
Speaker 1: Oh no, no she yeah, she says I had no toilet.

865
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 1: That was a lot. Well, it sounds like the musical

866
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 1: I answered a lot of questions I have about you

867
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 1: gotta watch it. Uh so. Yeah, the movie does not

868
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 1: pass the back to test. Doesn't even come close. There

869
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 1: are never in the same scene at any point. Let's

870
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 1: write the movie on her nipple scale zero five nipples

871
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 1: based on its portrayal of women. I'm going to give

872
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 1: it like a one like. It does not do well

873
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 1: for me. Between her only ambition is to fall in

874
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 1: love with a man and be rescued by him. Doesn't

875
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 1: matter even who it is. She's just like, I just

876
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 1: need a man to save me and kiss me. That's

877
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 1: really her only ambition pretty much throughout, and eventually you know,

878
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:46,839
Speaker 1: she finds someone who she might like, even though like

879
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:50,479
Speaker 1: are they compatible? I don't know. That remains her whole

880
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 1: goal throughout the movie. And Shrek is a misogynst piece

881
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:57,719
Speaker 1: of ship. Donkey isn't much better the treatment and women

882
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 1: is just bad. Yeah, it's no there's no getting around it.

883
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 1: So one nipple it belongs to donkey weird because I

884
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 1: like to give animal. Okay, I'm gonna red like Jalen

885
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 1: like another one on his chest. I wonder how many

886
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:21,440
Speaker 1: nipples donkeys have? Do they have stay tuned for donkeys?

887
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 1: I don't even know how that works. Is it for Trude?

888
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 1: More if you're a certain donkey right to teeths on

889
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 1: Google and she didn't say two nipples, one donkey teeth

890
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 1: kitalin here panda nipple on the donkey, I'm gonna have

891
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 1: to say I give it a one too, because even

892
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 1: though it's the old tale of you know, the princess

893
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 1: needs to get married and that's her one thought, it's

894
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 1: also motivated by her looks. Because if I do it

895
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 1: that I don't, I don't have to be an ogre

896
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:04,759
Speaker 1: anymore at night. So it's just like an extra one

897
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:08,720
Speaker 1: to punch into into my nipples. And that one nipple

898
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:12,440
Speaker 1: I will put on. I guess far quad is that

899
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 1: you see his nipple in the movie he's like sitting

900
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:19,960
Speaker 1: in bed topless, remember that. Yeah, it's when he's like reh,

901
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: he's probably jerking off because it's when he's looking at

902
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:24,439
Speaker 1: the magic mirror on the wall and he's like, show

903
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:27,320
Speaker 1: me again, and it like rewinds, just like a picture

904
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 1: of her, and he's like in his bed, not wearing

905
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:37,400
Speaker 1: a shirt, jerking too. Yeah, um, remember that character you see?

906
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 1: And I think, no, the mirror, the mirror. I think

907
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:43,400
Speaker 1: the mirror is in snow white. And I saw that

908
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 1: too because I was like, shouldn't it be a female character?

909
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 1: But but I tried to go that's why he was.

910
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 1: He was saying those things about the princesses. Something I

911
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 1: could have subverted but chose not to, chose not to

912
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 1: or It's not like they're like, hey, should we subvert

913
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:00,160
Speaker 1: this or not. They probably didn't even think of it.

914
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:01,919
Speaker 1: They're probably just like, well, well, my friends a guy,

915
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:04,759
Speaker 1: I would like to give him a job. I'm gonna

916
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:09,760
Speaker 1: put the nipple on them there actually right, So, speaking

917
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:12,880
Speaker 1: as a as as a woman who has been sexually

918
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 1: rejected by a far quad and a local production at

919
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 1: the musical, I'd like to give this movie one nipple

920
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 1: in terms of its female portrayal and in terms of

921
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 1: how it's uh far quads respond to twenty two year

922
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:31,839
Speaker 1: old women sexually interested in them. Uh No, But I mean,

923
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:34,279
Speaker 1: it's just there's no there's no getting around it. There's

924
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 1: no really redeeming female character. So it's even worse than

925
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:41,840
Speaker 1: most movies we encounter where you know, a popular summer

926
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 1: movie usually includes one female character who might be great

927
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 1: and have has agency, but there's no one for her

928
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 1: to talk to. Not only is there no one for

929
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 1: Fiona to talk to, but her character is completely half

930
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 1: baked as well. Uh that said, watch Shrek the Musical. Uh,

931
00:53:57,080 --> 00:53:59,839
Speaker 1: there's a really there's literally a lot of amazing work done.

932
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:02,879
Speaker 1: I encourage you to foster Shrek feminism of your own,

933
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:07,799
Speaker 1: reclaim what Shrek has denied you. Yes, indeed, yes, um,

934
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 1: and I will give I will give my nipple to

935
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:17,400
Speaker 1: Sutton Foster as Princess Fiona and Shrek the Musical. Sure. Yeah,

936
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:20,000
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here. Thank you, thank

937
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 1: you so much for having me. Certainly, where can people

938
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 1: follow you online? You can find me at Otsco Comedy,

939
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 1: on Instagram, Twitter, I'm on all the all the platforms.

940
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:34,000
Speaker 1: On the platforms, just it'll pop up. If you start

941
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 1: typing my very Japanese, um, just a T s U

942
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:42,839
Speaker 1: k O, it'll pop up. She's very searchical. You can

943
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:47,560
Speaker 1: follow us on all the platforms well, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook,

944
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:49,759
Speaker 1: and go to our website back toolcast dot com. For

945
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:54,480
Speaker 1: sure you can find upcoming live shows, including our one

946
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:58,840
Speaker 1: year anniversary live show at the Nerds show Room at

947
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:02,440
Speaker 1: Meltdown Comics. How did you get that? Oh? I don't know.

948
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 1: Maybe program director of that venue and Dante. Maybe she

949
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 1: put that show up where I don't know. Uh So

950
00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 1: check that out. It's on December two at seven pm.

951
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 1: Details forthcoming specially guest special movie will for Billina be there.

952
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 1: I haven't talked about Alfred Millina all day. God, okay, well,

953
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:26,560
Speaker 1: Alfred Millina, I don't care what he was doing at

954
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 1: this time. He was like, I'm too, I don't I

955
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 1: don't funk with DreamWorks. I think that's what Alfred Mallina

956
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:33,920
Speaker 1: would say, for sure, just putting words in his dignified

957
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 1: talented mountain. Also watch Rat Teens on the Cafe streaming

958
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 1: platform is my new cartoon about teenage rats. It's wonderful,

959
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:47,920
Speaker 1: Thank you and um Happily ever After.