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Speaker 1: But all right, job.

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Speaker 2: All across the USC Compton, Watts Bay to LA. Come

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Speaker 2: on to California y day from Rowley the Valley. We

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Speaker 2: represent that Keller County. So if you're keeping it real

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Speaker 2: on your side of your town, you tune into Gainst

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Speaker 2: the Chronicles Coronic Goals.

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Speaker 3: We gonna tell you.

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Speaker 1: How we goals. If I lie, my notes will girl

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Speaker 1: like Pinocchio. We're gonna tell you the truth and nothing

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Speaker 1: but the truths the chronic goals. This is not your

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Speaker 1: average shows.

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Speaker 2: You're now tuned into the rail mc ain't big Steals

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Speaker 2: the Streets.

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Speaker 3: Hello, We welcome to the Gainst the Chronicles podcast, the

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Speaker 3: production of iHeart Radio and Black Effect Podcast Network. Make

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Speaker 3: sure you download the iHeart app and subscribe to Against

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Speaker 3: the Chronicles. For my Apple users, hit the Purple Michael

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Speaker 3: on your front screen. Subscribed Against the Chronicles, leave a

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Speaker 3: five star rate and comment. We like to welcome you

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Speaker 3: to another episode of the Gangster Chronicles podcast. I can't

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Speaker 3: say I'm with my co hosts Tonight aight is handling

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Speaker 3: some business and we'll be back with us next week.

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Speaker 3: But you know what, though, I do have a special

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Speaker 3: guest in the house. Tonight Man you know, we have

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Speaker 3: a habit man throwing this term let this word legend

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Speaker 3: around just real loosely, I hear it. Just give them

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Speaker 3: to anybody to the point of this water down. But

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Speaker 3: we have a real live legend and here with us tonight,

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Speaker 3: my boy raheem from the Furious five. What's happening? Bro?

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Speaker 1: What it is? Brother?

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Speaker 3: Are you? Oh? Man? I'm good Man, Just glad to

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Speaker 3: have you up in this piece with me. Man, just chilling. Man,

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Speaker 3: you're doing your thing. I appreciate you Man, coming to

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Speaker 3: just chop it up for a spell with your partner. Man.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for having me Bro for sure.

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Speaker 3: For sure Man. You know we've been talking a lot

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Speaker 3: Man over the pace past few weeks, Man, and that's

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Speaker 3: why I was really looking forward to doing this episode.

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Speaker 3: And I ain't gonna lie, Man, I'm actually kind of

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Speaker 3: glad I get to just kind of just ask her

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Speaker 3: all the ask all the questions I want to ask,

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Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying. When you have a co host,

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Speaker 3: you have to be kind of courteous, you know what

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Speaker 3: I'm saying, Let them get their questions in and stuff,

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Speaker 3: so iob be able to just get you know, everything

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Speaker 3: that's on my shindof I got my own agenda tonight.

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Speaker 1: You know facts, let's go. So man, you are raisinally

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Speaker 1: for the Bronx, BONDI raids yep.

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Speaker 3: Born and raised, and you got to kind of see,

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Speaker 3: I ain't gonna say kind of you got to see

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Speaker 3: because you know, they've been making hip hop records. People

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Speaker 3: have been rapping on records, man for a long time.

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Speaker 3: You know, I think longer than with with some record

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Speaker 3: kind of.

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Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, yeah. Yeah. The hip hop culture in the

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Speaker 1: Bronx arguably started in nineteen seventy three when DJ co

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Speaker 1: Work gave a little a little party for his sister

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Speaker 1: a sweet sixteen or the system. But it turned out

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Speaker 1: to be a much bigger deal than what he imagined.

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Speaker 1: And so from then that kind of you know, put him,

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Speaker 1: put him in the party circuit and.

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Speaker 3: Work.

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Speaker 1: Although he's Jamaican, he didn't really flop or adhere to

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Speaker 1: Jamaican culture. Uh when he came from Jamaica to the Bronx.

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Speaker 1: You know, he came from Jamaica to the Bronx in

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Speaker 1: the sixties and his dad was a DJ, and so

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Speaker 1: his dad used to forbid him to like mess with

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Speaker 1: his record collection. But when his dad wasn't all. He'd

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Speaker 1: go in his pop's record collection and instead of playing

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Speaker 1: the reggae music, he played the Falk music. So he

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Speaker 1: liked artist like James Brown Slide, the Family Stalled Graham

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Speaker 1: Central Station, you know that that sort of thing.

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Speaker 3: And so.

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Speaker 1: He began to develop a playlist, and his playlist basically

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Speaker 1: developed as a result of bee boys and be girls

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Speaker 1: going to the jams. And he noticed that they would

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Speaker 1: react every time the break parts and the records would

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Speaker 1: come on. They would getting the circle and do these dances.

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Speaker 3: You know, that's anteresting point that should bring up his heritage, bro,

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Speaker 3: because right now you know what the big debadio is.

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Speaker 3: You got a lot of brothers one arguing about who

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Speaker 3: is who started it? Right, you know, because of course

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Speaker 3: you know, we all know that this is black culture,

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Speaker 3: you know, part of Black culture and something that we created,

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Speaker 3: right right, But now you have a continuency of people

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Speaker 3: that are like, no, this wasn't hurting by no Jamaicans,

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Speaker 3: no Spanish people. This is all us. You were there

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Speaker 3: in the beginning, man, Yeah, really.

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Speaker 1: Who start?

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Speaker 3: Who kicked this thing off? Man?

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Speaker 1: So all right, so first of all, you know, as

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Speaker 1: as people of color, you know, they push a lot

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Speaker 1: of powers that be, push a lot of genders off

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Speaker 1: on us and have us believing certain certain things that

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Speaker 1: aren't historically true, like all black people do not come

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Speaker 1: from Africa. This this planet was a black planet.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 1: And that's why you search the ancestry of every ethnic

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Speaker 1: group of people outside of black people. They got black

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Speaker 1: people and they they have this, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: So we was all over the place, including the Americans,

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Speaker 1: and that in fact, California has uh the old black

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Speaker 1: name of American uh population thing uh in history. Uh,

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Speaker 1: the Collifians. That's where the name California actually come.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Theians. You know. Shout out to my homeboy, man Tarita,

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Speaker 3: and I see he told me that. I just learned

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Speaker 3: that maybe about a month ago.

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Speaker 1: Okay, all right, yeah, And so you know, when when

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Speaker 1: it started, you know, obviously there's there's black Spanish speaking

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Speaker 1: people just like you know, just like there's uh uh

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Speaker 1: non black Spanish speaking people, right, and so it's hard

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Speaker 1: to distinguish, you know, who's who are party if everybody black?

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: So with regards to Latins in the beginning, uh, Latins

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Speaker 1: they were there, you know, they were they were there

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Speaker 1: in the beginning. But there were aren't a lot of

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Speaker 1: Latins at the gems in the UH or in the

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Speaker 1: seventies because during that time, blacks and Puerto Ricans we

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Speaker 1: ain't really rocked together. But now if you if you

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Speaker 1: saw blacks and Puerto Ricans hanging out together, usually it

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Speaker 1: was because the Puerto Ricans were outcasts from their culture

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Speaker 1: or shunned from their culture, you know, or maybe had

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Speaker 1: some family issues and then didn't rock with their people,

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Speaker 1: uh for a little while, and and black culture resonated

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Speaker 1: with them to some degree, so they had black friends,

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Speaker 1: but that wasn't the norm, at least not at my

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Speaker 1: book them. And and you know, throughout I traveled all

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Speaker 1: over the brus There was no part of the Bronx

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Speaker 1: that I didn't go or that you know, or that

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Speaker 1: we we couldn't go because uh that territory was you know,

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Speaker 1: was too dangerous or whatever. Even like there was a

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Speaker 1: little Italy in the Bronx in the seventies, and if

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Speaker 1: you was black and you walked through little Italy even

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Speaker 1: in the daytime, like you was taking your life in

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Speaker 1: your own heads, you know what I mean. And that

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Speaker 1: was walking distance from my hood. But if we wanted

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Speaker 1: to go to the shopping area that wasn't far from

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Speaker 1: our hood, and we was walking. That's how we got

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So but but so to

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Speaker 1: answer your question, the Puerto Ricans staying were there, but

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Speaker 1: uh and and you know the Caribbean people, Jamaicans, you know, Ashianans, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, Colombias all all of the people that that

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Speaker 1: are there now were probably there at the beginning. But

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Speaker 1: they were not practitioners. They were and they were onlookers.

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Speaker 1: They were spectators. They were watching, observing and learning to

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Speaker 1: be practitioners. Eventually, they were not the innovators. We were

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Speaker 1: the innovators.

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Speaker 3: I don't think nobody can argue that because you were

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Speaker 3: actually there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we we we influenced them. And then afterwards they

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Speaker 1: took the torch and named Ramy, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: You know, and what do you.

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Speaker 3: Think about this debate that's going on right now?

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Speaker 1: Well, and actually a part of it on the side

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Speaker 1: of you know, black the young Black America, because I

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Speaker 1: was there and there are a contingency of people like

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Speaker 1: that Joe krs One, Peep Rock Crazy Legs from the

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Speaker 1: rock Steady crew. Respectfully, you know, they're all my legendary brothers,

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Speaker 1: respectful all of them, but with regards to the statements

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Speaker 1: that they're making about history of our culture, they are incorrect.

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Speaker 1: And you know, some people have an issue with being correctly.

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Speaker 1: They take that very personally. And you know, my legendary brother,

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Speaker 1: Lord Jamar asked, you know, publicly, if we could have,

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Speaker 1: you know, a little round table discussion to clear the air,

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Speaker 1: you know, put the animosity, you know, aside, and just

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Speaker 1: have a grown man discussion amongst the hip hop community

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Speaker 1: to correct our history, because it's our history. And if

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Speaker 1: we don't tell that right, you know, somebody else don't

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Speaker 1: tell it.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: So there's a lot of urban legends, you know, and

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Speaker 1: and embellishments going on about the history of the culture

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Speaker 1: and how it started. And you know, I don't I

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Speaker 1: don't like to get into the habit of calling any

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Speaker 1: of my legendary brothers and sisters wires. So I'll see,

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Speaker 1: so I'll say that, you know, perhaps some of them

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Speaker 1: are some of their memory are selling in there.

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Speaker 3: You know, it did be that their memories, you know,

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Speaker 3: getting a little jaded, man, And we ain't here to

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Speaker 3: start no kind of drama or nothing like that, man,

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Speaker 3: Because I do think the hip hop is all you know,

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Speaker 3: music is for everybody to enjoy. But when it comes

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Speaker 3: to telling those origin stories, we got to have the

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Speaker 3: facts correct.

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Speaker 1: Right, I agree the facts. I'm gonna turn the light

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Speaker 1: up the audience, doo see me enough that.

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Speaker 3: To show us all good do your thing?

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Speaker 1: Man?

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Speaker 3: Do you think then we go? Right there, we're sitting

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Speaker 3: in the dark before, brother, you sitting in the dark

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Speaker 3: for man. There we go. We're good and go live

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Speaker 3: and direct. Now here we go. Yeah, yeah, you all

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Speaker 3: lit up man, for all your fans. My man just

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Speaker 3: turned the lights. So I don't think we are just

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Speaker 3: losing our mind, you know. So so you were around

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Speaker 3: the Bronx and the Sephonies, man, when there was a

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Speaker 3: lot of stuff going on. You had you had the

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Speaker 3: fires that was going on over there, when you were

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Speaker 3: burning down the apartment buildings.

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Speaker 1: It was gangs games running right out.

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Speaker 3: Let's touch from that a little bit. Man. It's out

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Speaker 3: here on the coast. You know, this is the you know,

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Speaker 3: I think l A and Chicago, man gane, you know, Maine,

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Speaker 3: capital of the United States. You know, perspectively, I think

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Speaker 3: Chicago might have got cracked a little bit earlier than

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Speaker 3: the West coast.

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Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, yeah, I believe so, yep, yep.

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Speaker 3: But the gangs, the games on the East coast, Man,

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Speaker 3: they were a lot different. It wasn't about it was

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Speaker 3: it gangs that's signed by Burrow or something like that.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, yeah, the gangs were well not assigned necessarily

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Speaker 1: by Burrow. Being a gang from a particular Burrow was

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Speaker 1: just a circumstance, you know, that's that's just where you live.

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Speaker 1: But really it was more like your neighborhood represented your

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Speaker 1: neighbors and and your neighborhood could take up you know,

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Speaker 1: a few square blocks or whatever. But the largest gang

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Speaker 1: in New York City, uh, in the seventies u n

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Speaker 1: eighties or or period, the largest gang in New York

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Speaker 1: City was the Black Space. There there were other gangs,

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Speaker 1: but they didn't have like the Black Spades had divisions,

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Speaker 1: like like how armies, Like how the army has divisions.

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Speaker 1: The Black Spades had divisions. So the the first division

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Speaker 1: was from projects called Brunsdale aousand and that's where the

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Speaker 1: legendary disco king Mario comes and they are they were

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Speaker 1: the ones who started the Blacks. And then Bronx river

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Speaker 1: Houses that's where Africa Bam Bardah and and these people

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Speaker 1: came from. That's where the Zoomu nation started. Now, the

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Speaker 1: Zulu nation actually started in nineteen seventy seven, seventy eight,

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Speaker 1: but some of them claimed that they started in nineteen seventy.

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Speaker 1: Bamboda actually claimed they started in nineteen seventy three. But

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Speaker 1: that's not the truth. He wants to rival to work historically.

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Speaker 1: So that's why he makes that clean. That's and so

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Speaker 1: the gangs in New York City at that time, you know,

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Speaker 1: very territorial. They wore they wore colors, not necessarily red

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Speaker 1: and blue, but they wore when they when I say

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Speaker 1: they wore colors, they wore like uh, jean jackets with

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Speaker 1: their gang's name and logo on the back. And you know,

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Speaker 1: if you if you was unlucky enough to go through

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Speaker 1: their hood, they was goed G checking and and G checking.

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Speaker 1: Uh really hasn't changed, you know. When you know, when

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Speaker 1: I say g check, you know y'all can relate because

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Speaker 1: y'all do. That's what y'all do. I got that terminology

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Speaker 1: obviously from y'all. But that's been going on here since

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Speaker 1: hum forever, you know what I mean. So absolutely, and

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Speaker 1: so you know, and and it was hard to be

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Speaker 1: neutral if you live, you know, in a in a

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Speaker 1: hood where idiot the gangs work, because you know they

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Speaker 1: was gone. They was like storty, you know, before I

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Speaker 1: became an mc. Uh dudes from the Black Spades. Uh

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Speaker 1: from from Bambada's division. They from the Baby Spades. They

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Speaker 1: would ride around around my box, my block when they

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Speaker 1: bicycles and they would rob everything and everybody. But I

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Speaker 1: was cool with this dude named David Waters and his

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Speaker 1: older brother and his older brother named wild Man Steve.

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Speaker 1: They were actually from Rocks River. So when the dudes

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Speaker 1: from Brash River would come around block to rob everybody,

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Speaker 1: they wouldn't rob them. And because I was cool with them,

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Speaker 1: they me. But they were like on the low extorting me.

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Speaker 1: Even though one of my OG's was their o g

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Speaker 1: from Bronx Road. Dude names Fighter rest In PC was from.

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Speaker 1: He was like the leader of the Gestapo CU. They

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Speaker 1: was like Bampire's most beard uh hitters.

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Speaker 3: Son had some games and ship going on. Not to

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Speaker 3: cut you off, because I want you to get back

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Speaker 3: in your story. Ben was cracking like that.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Ben Bada had had the wolves and and

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Speaker 1: so that's that's really how he rolls to power or

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Speaker 1: more than more so than his DJing because as far

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Speaker 1: as Djane, he was all right as a DJ. But

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Speaker 1: his contribution to hip hop culture with regards to this

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Speaker 1: DJing was his record collection. He has a maximum record collection,

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Speaker 1: so he was like considering the master of records. And

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Speaker 1: you know, he he helped to integrate ah other types

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Speaker 1: of music into hip hop music. Like you know, we

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Speaker 1: was already hip hop DJ's were already playing, you know,

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Speaker 1: groups like like the Rolling Stars or then Lizzie or

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Speaker 1: uh Boss Gags, you know, records like that. So because

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Speaker 1: all of those records, even though they were by white artists,

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Speaker 1: they all had drum breaks, and so the drum breaks

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Speaker 1: were what what inspired and motivating the break dancers to

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Speaker 1: get on the but dobate thing and who were hurt?

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Speaker 1: He didn't even he ain't cut, He didn't scratch, he

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Speaker 1: didn't spend the record back or he did was put

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Speaker 1: the damn need on the record and let play. And

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Speaker 1: he would start the record from the beginning, but when

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Speaker 1: it got to the break part and everybody would go

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Speaker 1: nuts and hit the floor.

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Speaker 3: And that's the brain that's still the pieces of hip

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Speaker 3: hop today. Man A two bar Loop two BA loop

290
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Speaker 3: or a fourth ball.

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Speaker 1: Loop exactly, and Graham the Drug and grand Master Flash

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Speaker 1: was the one who created the loop with Turning Teally

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Speaker 1: be in the rec bath.

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Speaker 3: That's dope, man, That's what I want to get into. Now,

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Speaker 3: you as an artist, man, how old were you when

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Speaker 3: you first start getting down?

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Speaker 1: I started when I was fifteen, Hm, I got into

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Speaker 1: I got I joined my first rapping room when I

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Speaker 1: was fifteen. And that rap group was actually a legendary

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Speaker 1: called Pomptin four that we battled grand Master Flash and

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Speaker 1: the Furious Sport made eleven, nineteen seventy nine, having b

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Speaker 1: A l A Box and grand Master Flash and the

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Speaker 1: Furious Sport. They won the battle. For a couple of

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Speaker 1: days after the battle, Melody Roll and at the time

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Speaker 1: means mister Nuts and later Cheese Scorpio, they showed up

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Speaker 1: at my mom's crew and they asked me if I

307
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Speaker 1: would be there on the join groups, and so I

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Speaker 1: wound up joining their groups. Because a lot of people

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Speaker 1: don't know I'm the first MC to mix singing a rap,

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Speaker 1: so I'm the I'm the Nate Dog of the inception era.

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Speaker 3: Of skipt So you kicked it all off. Facts and

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Speaker 3: you know what was crazy about the day. And I

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Speaker 3: ain't gonna stay in this present time. I don't want

314
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Speaker 3: to touch on that till later on. But that's all

315
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Speaker 3: hip hop is now. Man, I don't know if you

316
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Speaker 3: can be a successful them see in the day's climb

317
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Speaker 3: without having a melody right, some type.

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Speaker 1: Of your ship exactly. Yeah, And you know it's it's

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Speaker 1: real funny. How how fifty initially how he clowned jar

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Speaker 1: rule out of uh singing his looks and wound up

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Speaker 1: singing his hooks himself. And yep did the same ship.

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Speaker 3: Yep, y'all battle limb and they come and they want

323
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Speaker 3: you down with their crew. Yeah, how was that man?

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Speaker 3: At first? That you decline the invitation at first?

325
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Speaker 1: Now I immediately accepted because I was like, even though

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Speaker 1: nobody said that I was the leader of the Funky four,

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Speaker 1: I was the leader because I was the one making

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Speaker 1: up all of the material that we before there's a

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Speaker 1: group together, and because I would it's a great uh singing.

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Speaker 1: I would take old Jackson five songs and and and

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Speaker 1: you know, remix the words and put my group's name

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Speaker 1: in it and and sing in my best Michael Jackson

333
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Speaker 1: impersonation and and and and we were fun those songs, uh,

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Speaker 1: those routine we call them routines at the time. And

335
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Speaker 1: so that's the reason why I was like, uh, a

336
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Speaker 1: novel team or unique to the Grand Master Flashes group

337
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Speaker 1: because none of them could sing. So when they got

338
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Speaker 1: when they asked me to join, they asked me to

339
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Speaker 1: join because of that him, because I could run and

340
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Speaker 1: and I I recognized when I was a member of

341
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Speaker 1: the Funky Four that you know, it's levels to everything,

342
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Speaker 1: and you know, not being not being arrogated or like

343
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:10,439
Speaker 1: I'm full of myself, but I didn't feel like we

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Speaker 1: were on the same level. I wanted to be in

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Speaker 1: a group that I felt had more boundles as far

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Speaker 1: as our abilities, you know, the the abilities of a

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Speaker 1: collective member.

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Speaker 3: Now, during that time period, there's no really recording industry now,

349
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Speaker 3: especially not one for him hop and rap. At that time,

350
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Speaker 3: you just got this immense underground scene that's taking place

351
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Speaker 3: in New York. Right, Yep, you guys needed shows. What

352
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:43,440
Speaker 3: was y'all getting paid for them? Shows back then brought

353
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Speaker 3: like a couple hundred bucks.

354
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Speaker 1: So so when we first started, you know, we started

355
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Speaker 1: in the parks for free, and the summer time and

356
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Speaker 1: you know the summertime during free jams in the farm,

357
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Speaker 1: that was the testing ground and that's where you proved yourself.

358
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Speaker 1: So that if you proved yourself enough to a crowd

359
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 1: in the bar for free when it got cold outside,

360
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,400
Speaker 1: too cold for people to jam outside, and you rent

361
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 1: to the club, people would pay three to five dollars

362
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 1: to come see and hear you walk at a club.

363
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Speaker 1: So that was the that was the old purpose of

364
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 1: doing free jams outside so that you could build up

365
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: your your your reputation you're following, and your skills to

366
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Speaker 1: be able to entertain an audience once you once it

367
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 1: got too colder, right, So that's so that's what we did.

368
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: And one of the things, one of the unique things

369
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Speaker 1: that helped the rap scene to spread around five boroughs

370
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Speaker 1: of New York City in the seven in these before

371
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Speaker 1: there was any social media or anything like that. Where

372
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Speaker 1: it was it was this car service, a taxi service

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Speaker 1: called ojet oj Console. And matter of fact, if you

374
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 1: listen to the Sugar Old Gang song rappers tonight, big

375
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Speaker 1: Bangkank says we're gonna get some gonna get a fly girl,

376
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Speaker 1: gonna get some spanking drive off and a death o jet.

377
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: So he's talking about a cab basic. Because o j

378
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: Cabs service had luxury cards. They have Electra two twenty.

379
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 1: Clive's leak into ours, you know, and so you could

380
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Speaker 1: do what we call put an OJ on hole. So

381
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Speaker 1: when you put an OJ on hole, we were paid

382
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Speaker 1: like twenty five dollars and the O Jane would take

383
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Speaker 1: us wherever we wanted to go within New York City limits,

384
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 1: or they would take us to a location and we

385
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 1: for us for one hour for twenty five dollars. So

386
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,400
Speaker 1: we would take OJ's all around the city. And when

387
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,479
Speaker 1: we're giving jams, whether it's in a park or a club,

388
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 1: we would make flyers and take a fly OJ to

389
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: the local high school and give out all of the

390
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: flyers at the local high school to make sure that

391
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 1: everybody at the school now where we was going to

392
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: be one of that knew that we was going to

393
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 1: be at location. And so that's how the wrap the

394
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 1: park jam tapes and the taps from the cassette tapes

395
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,959
Speaker 1: from the clubs and the pop jams. That's how they

396
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: spread around New York City by OJ car service. All

397
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 1: kinds of people would put OJ's on old thugs, drug dealers,

398
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 1: you know office you know, businessmen and you know, right,

399
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: you know everyday people. But when they got in the car,

400
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: then the OJ drivers would be bumping a Grand Master

401
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 1: Flash and a Furious five tape, cool Pluck Brother's tape

402
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,880
Speaker 1: or Pumpy Bullet tape. Because there was a record shop

403
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: in the Bronx called Rhythm then owned by this dude

404
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: named Richie T. And Richie T also formed this club

405
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,159
Speaker 1: and the Bronx called the Tea Connection where all of

406
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: the uh, the pioneer rap groups were format. So he

407
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 1: would record all of our performances on a cassette and

408
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 1: blast our performance tapes out of his record shop on

409
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 1: East Street Lune Avenue in the Bronx. That if you

410
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: was walking by and you hurry it, it was very

411
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: you know, very alluring. You you had to go in

412
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 1: there and you know, ask who it was and buy

413
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 1: a tea. So that's how our tape circulated. That's how

414
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:04,199
Speaker 1: we king no all around New York City before before

415
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 1: there was.

416
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:07,199
Speaker 3: You got it.

417
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,679
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, go ahead, No, that's all I was just

418
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,160
Speaker 1: gonna say. That was that's how we became known before

419
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 1: there was any raper.

420
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 3: Okay, you know, during this time like you said earlier.

421
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: I'm sorry what they that we was making life So

422
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:31,640
Speaker 1: Dame Dash, Dame Dash is uncle. His name is Ray Champer,

423
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: Rest in peace.

424
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 3: Uh.

425
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: He was our first manager and right, yeah, And so

426
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: we did a we did a jam at the Autoborn Ballroom.

427
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: That's where Malcolm X was assassinated. Right, we had the

428
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: Autobron ball Room, so jam pat that if you look

429
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 1: up at the ceiling, the ceiling was buckling because there

430
00:28:55,160 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 1: were so many people on the dance floor, right. And

431
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 1: and I would say, if I had to estimate how

432
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: many people was at the Auto Bomb when we had

433
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: the jam back, maybe it was like five hundred, six

434
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: hundred people. And that was way way more than how

435
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: many people should have been in it. And we almost

436
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: got into a fight with our manager, Ray Chimber, because

437
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: for that show, he paid us forty dollars a mint

438
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: and we was like, nah, you know, lord shew mine,

439
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 1: but you're gonna have to come up off that get

440
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:43,719
Speaker 1: some more cash. So after that show, and after we

441
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 1: got into almost got into a physical altercation, he wound

442
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: up paying us one hundred and twenty five dollars per

443
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: man every part.

444
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 3: Oh wow, So so let me go back to this, right,

445
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 3: so he was gonna pay you can get you guys

446
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 3: forty dollars a piece. Yep. Wow. So people pretty much

447
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 3: been beating other people since this thing started.

448
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 1: From day one, bro, from day one.

449
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 3: From day one. So so you guys are doing these

450
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 3: parties and at this time everything is kind of over

451
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 3: these breakbeats. Right, right, When did you guys start doing

452
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 3: more original music? Is that was that much later on?

453
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: Yeah? That's when you know, when when the music industry

454
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: began to uh, because there was a period of time

455
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 1: when we became so popular and when the rap scene,

456
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 1: pre rap records became so popular in New York City

457
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: that record company executors began and at park gyms and

458
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: the clubs where you know, a local rap artists would

459
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 1: be conforming. And so that's how we wound up making

460
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: our first record because uh, this this dude, I'm gonna

461
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: call him the bootleg Terry Lewis because he's not the

462
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 1: Terry Lewis of Jimmy jam and Terry Lewis, So he's

463
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: the boot let Terry Lewis. He approached us at the

464
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: jam we was doing uh in Harlem, and he asked

465
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 1: us if we would be interested in making the records.

466
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 1: So we were, you know, we were luke aline about

467
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,719
Speaker 1: the idea of recording something at the time. But well

468
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: we was like all right, you know, fucking you all right, cool,

469
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: you know what what what we have to do? So

470
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 1: he was like, yo, you know, no recording studio. You know,

471
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: book some time at a recording studio. You know, some

472
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 1: musicians get some musicians together to have them replay whatever

473
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 1: music is that y'all want.

474
00:31:55,160 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 3: So we have some you know, we have first I'm sorry,

475
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 3: I tell you. We got to love to lay a

476
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 3: little bit, a little bit. So he was the first

477
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 3: guy to kind of started sampling stuff. Didn't like interpolating stuff, right, yeah.

478
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: He was, well, he didn't. He didn't take us into

479
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 1: the studio and didn't get the band together to meet

480
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 1: the interprection of the music putting our lyrics to. We

481
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 1: had some musician for friends from our block, and we

482
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: got them together and told them what we wanted music

483
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: that we wanted to do, and we wound up going

484
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 1: to the studio and uh doing an interpolation of Stephanie

485
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: Mills's song put Your Body, And so we recorded our

486
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 1: lyrics to that, and so when it was released. We

487
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: didn't get any notification whatsoever from the record label from Bublet.

488
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: Terry Lewis ready in one day, I going to be

489
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 1: walking up in the local shopping area and the bombs

490
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: called Fordham Road and there was a record shot uh

491
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 1: close to the corner of Webster Avenue, Forton Road, and

492
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 1: uh they'd always add speakers outside lasting whatever the new

493
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: music was. And so I'm about to walk by and

494
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: then I hear our song playing. So I was excited

495
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: because I didn't know it was action out and for sale.

496
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: So I go in the record shop and it's a

497
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:37,959
Speaker 1: long line. So by the time I get to the counter,

498
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 1: uh to ask the dune behind the counter for the record,

499
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 1: they had them playing another record. So when I got

500
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 1: to the counter, I say to the dune, yo, yo,

501
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: that record by grand Master Flash and the Furious five

502
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: that was just playing before you put on this record

503
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 1: I want to buy. He was like, who's it by?

504
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: I said, grand Master Flash and the Periods five. He said,

505
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 1: I wasn't playing no record by Nora. I said, what

506
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: are you talking about? That's my group and I just

507
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: heard you playing our record. It was the record right

508
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: before this one, and the name of my group is

509
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 1: grand Master Flash and the Furious, and I have a

510
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 1: copy of the record. He's like, okay, let me, let

511
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 1: me show me. So so he gets the record and

512
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 1: when he shows it to me, it's the name. The

513
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 1: title of the song says we Rap More Mellow, But

514
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,839
Speaker 1: the name of the artists on the song doesn't say

515
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 1: grand Master Flash and the periods five. It says the

516
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: Younger Generation. So that's not our names, right. So the

517
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 1: dude forbad the counter, of course he doesn't know. So

518
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: I buy the record, and I happened to be on

519
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: my way to rehearsal the rest of the group. And

520
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 1: so when I get to hresal, I showed him the

521
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 1: record and they was like old ship. So we decided

522
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: he was gonna go confront the boot Blaze. Terry Lewis,

523
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 1: he lived with a walking distance or Flash his house,

524
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 1: uh in these projects called in these projects called more

525
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 1: houses where uh the legendary brother H Curtis blows DJ

526
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 1: Cool DJ aj is from resting Beats. And so we

527
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 1: walked over more houses and we go in there. Uh

528
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,720
Speaker 1: take the elevator to the floor where where Terry Lewis

529
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: lives and we go to his apartment door, and we

530
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 1: noticed that the locks uplin door was missing, so there

531
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 1: was a hole where the lockso that they used to

532
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,839
Speaker 1: beat and when we looked at it, uh, you could

533
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 1: see string into the apartment, and there was no furniture

534
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 1: in the apartment. And then one of us lead up

535
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 1: against the door by mistake, and the door flung open

536
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 1: and the bout let Terry Lewis was gone. You're no

537
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 1: fun of chain in there, and we ain't never seen

538
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: him again.

539
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 3: And so you and you know what during that time,

540
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 3: hip hop was such a big novelty right, possibly made

541
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 3: hundreds of thousands of dollars because he had the only hitting.

542
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 1: Record played exactly exactly you know what I mean that

543
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: was that was around. It was, uh what I understand.

544
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: I think there was eighty five or eighty seven record

545
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 1: Rap Records Need recorded in nineteen seventy not and uh

546
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: ball we rap more mellow that song this woman.

547
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:47,799
Speaker 3: So he just put a fake name and a fake

548
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 3: song title.

549
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 1: Left well.

550
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 3: And for him to fleep. Because you said we never

551
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 3: saw him again, so that means he possibly left New

552
00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 3: York exactly yep. So he had a plan. So I

553
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 3: never give you guys no money to record the song

554
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,840
Speaker 3: and nothing like nothing of that next year wasn't compensated

555
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 3: at all. No, wow, that's a bad business man. After that,

556
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 3: when did you guys cook up with Sugar? Like? How

557
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 3: did you guys hook up with Sugar? Hell?

558
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 1: So after that we met another dude named Bobby Robinson

559
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 1: who had his own record shop, and he had his

560
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:35,280
Speaker 1: own record label called Enjoyed Records, and we recorded another

561
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 1: symbol called super Rapping and and we actually recorded an

562
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 1: album for Bobby Robinson label and joy. But when it

563
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: came time to to give us an accounty or how

564
00:37:53,600 --> 00:38:00,120
Speaker 1: many record sales we had accumulated, he was like, he

565
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: gave us a bunch of excuses. We didn't think that,

566
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 1: you know, that the record went gold or platinum or

567
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 1: anything like that. But because of our growing popularity, we

568
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 1: knew that the record sold something. It wasn't getting any radio,

569
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 1: but we do a ton of d James uh in

570
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 1: the Tri State area who was playing and we was

571
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: getting a shipload of shows as a result of it.

572
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 1: At some point right before we started actually uh, right

573
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,439
Speaker 1: before we got signed the sugar Hill, we was doing

574
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 1: like three shows or not, you know what I mean,

575
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 1: Like three shows a night and like every spot we

576
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 1: do with jab.

577
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 3: Yeah right, let's yea. It was making I'm going the

578
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 3: math in my head and now you got paid a

579
00:38:57,880 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 3: little bit of scratch back then man for some young

580
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:05,879
Speaker 3: dude exactly exactly. Yep, three shows a night. Man, y'all

581
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 3: get a book like five six days a week exactly. Yeah,

582
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 3: that that started, y'all was out there killing y'all was

583
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 3: ghetto fabulous.

584
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: Man, exactly fact what they would ricks nigga rich.

585
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 3: That's exactly what we work, yeah, right around with a

586
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 3: full of cash. So how did how the sugar heel

587
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,240
Speaker 3: approach How the sugar heel approach the group?

588
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 1: So there was this club called disco Fever on the

589
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 1: west side of the Bronx on a street called Jerome

590
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 1: Apple and uh, the owner of disco Fever South Abotello.

591
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 1: He would have all of the rap artists uh come through,

592
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:05,919
Speaker 1: you know to disco Fever, and we got the red

593
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 1: carpet rolled out for us. We'd all, you know, all

594
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 1: of us got in free. That was like our house.

595
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 1: We would be the way we was treated at the

596
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 1: disco Fever, you know, free drinks. Flash had a night

597
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 1: he spawn on the turntables. Uh, Curtis Blow would be there.

598
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:37,760
Speaker 1: Uh fat boys who d run DMC. Uh everybody from

599
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 1: you know from from that era would be there, and

600
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 1: so uh Sylvia Robinson from Sugar Old Records and our

601
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 1: son Joey found out that all of the you know

602
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:59,280
Speaker 1: best local rappers would be hanging out at disco Fever.

603
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 1: So they came there actually looking for us because they

604
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 1: heard tapes of us and they were responsible for producing

605
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: sugar Hill Gang uh oo had you know success in

606
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:23,240
Speaker 1: rappers to light and ironically, Big Bang Cank in rappers

607
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 1: delight set a piece of one on my rhymes him them,

608
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 1: then the women fight for my delect like that was

609
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 1: my first one of my first round. That was like

610
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: the one of the rhymes that made me pop off

611
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 1: in the bronx, you know, yeah, yeah, yes.

612
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 3: Because he did one of your rhymes. It laid them

613
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:51,320
Speaker 3: to want to work with work wanted did their research

614
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:52,880
Speaker 3: and found out over.

615
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 1: Here right because Big band Cake wasn't even a rapper,

616
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 1: He wasn't even them he like he was. He was

617
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: a bouncer who worked with my legendary brother Grandmaster Kazes

618
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:12,360
Speaker 1: group of Cold Crush brothers, and and then he became

619
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 1: their manager and uh, he worked part time at a

620
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 1: pizza shop in Inglewood, New Jersey. And that's how Sylvia

621
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 1: Robertson and Joey met them because they went in this

622
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 1: pizza shot and heard him rapp into a tape that

623
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 1: Grandmaster Kaz and the Cold Crush Brothers did had a

624
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 1: jam that they would him and when they heard him rapping,

625
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:40,919
Speaker 1: they was like, yo, you want to be in this group.

626
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 1: And so that's how he got in the shugar il Gat.

627
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,479
Speaker 3: That's crazy, man, you know what, It's something else sitting

628
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:51,399
Speaker 3: in there here in his history right now, man, Because

629
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,320
Speaker 3: I'm I was born in seventy bro.

630
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 1: Oh okay, that's what's up.

631
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 3: Yep. I was born in nineteen seventy. I was a

632
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 3: little boy, you know. So you guys get with her,

633
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 3: were you guys? Hisitn at first because you guys have

634
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,800
Speaker 3: had now a couple of bad experiences messed with record label.

635
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 3: So I'm pretty sure y'all was over it.

636
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 1: The funny ship about that is and so you know,

637
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 1: we we didn't know anything, you know, Sylvia Robinson except

638
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:25,479
Speaker 1: that she was a beautiful black woman and she made

639
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:31,280
Speaker 1: the song Hellow Talk. And so when we were invited

640
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:37,760
Speaker 1: to her mansion and uh at Inglewood clips New Jersey,

641
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 1: uh to to sign to her label. We felt very

642
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 1: at ease and and you know cool about initially. But

643
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: so she would she would pay for our cabs to

644
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 1: take cab from the Bronx to Inglewood, New Jersey. So

645
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 1: uh when end back. So whenever we would take a

646
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: cab back from Inglewood from the studio back to the Bronx, Sylvia,

647
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:22,280
Speaker 1: the cab drivers would have all these horror stories about

648
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 1: how not to trust Sylvia and her husband Joe, because

649
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 1: they had this group the moments Ray, Goodman and Brown

650
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 1: signed to their label and they was robbing them and

651
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 1: they had a tune of other artists us until to

652
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 1: their label and nobody ever seemed to get paid any royalties.

653
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 1: That's where every cab driver exactly. So that's what every

654
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 1: cab driver that was from Inglewood, New Jersey drove us

655
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:58,319
Speaker 1: back to the Bronx told us about. And so we

656
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: didn't start to see evidence of that being the truth

657
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: until so what time, Well, every time she would she

658
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 1: would give us money, the money was always advanced. It

659
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 1: was never we never got any royals. So when the

660
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 1: message came out that was like our biggest hit.

661
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 3: Like that.

662
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:31,320
Speaker 1: She was on a fire playing everyone and we Christmas

663
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: morning of nineteen eighty three, we took the message was out.

664
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 1: The message came out the end of nineteen eighty two,

665
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: so no, I'm sorry, No, I'm yeah. It came out

666
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:53,319
Speaker 1: the end of nineteen eighty two, close to Christmas, so

667
00:45:53,640 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. So Christmas Day of nineteen eighty two, the

668
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 1: message had gone goal in like lain one day. So

669
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 1: according to what we were told by sugar Hill, so

670
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:18,800
Speaker 1: we took the bus. We have no one, so we

671
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:22,839
Speaker 1: were alwaying Sular to go get an advance so that

672
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:28,760
Speaker 1: we could buy our kids ship for Christmas. Right, ah, right,

673
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,880
Speaker 1: So we took the bus from the bombs to sugar

674
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:39,760
Speaker 1: Hill and we get off ah a corner Powersades Avenue

675
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:46,279
Speaker 1: at Western and chuverar Hill Records Recording studios and offices

676
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:51,359
Speaker 1: were on West Street. So we're on the corner of

677
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 1: West Street walking down towards Shave Hills Studios and we

678
00:46:55,560 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 1: hear a car coming towards us, bumping the message and

679
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 1: it's bumping that shit mad lot. So when we finally

680
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 1: see the car, it's a canary yellow Porsche and Sylvia

681
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 1: Robinson's son, Joey is driving it and it got a

682
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 1: red ribbon around it and that's what he got for

683
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 1: Christmas with All Royal too much. But we ain't know

684
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 1: at the time.

685
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 3: So y'all know at the time. Now I've heard the

686
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:34,240
Speaker 3: horror stories, man, not just about Sylvia Robinson's label, but everyone.

687
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 3: It was a really predatory period and still predatory in

688
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 3: a lot of ways, but not as bad as it

689
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 3: was initially. Right, So you guys are putting out, you

690
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:48,839
Speaker 3: guys are selling mad records out there, right, yep? What

691
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 3: was the final What was the final outcome that somebody

692
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:53,879
Speaker 3: confronts Sylvia. Oh?

693
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:59,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, we absolutely confronted Sylvia, you know we uh in

694
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty We we asked for a release because you know,

695
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 1: we felt like we wanted getting treated fairly. We never

696
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 1: received any what teas and so she told us not

697
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:20,799
Speaker 1: so we went to a lawyer. Uh, initially, the whole

698
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:27,720
Speaker 1: group went initially, but then she gained Mellie Mel uh

699
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 1: Scorpion and Cowboy Money behind the rest of the group's

700
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:39,319
Speaker 1: back to stay signed to sugar Hill and Me, Grandmaster

701
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 1: Flash and Mellie Mel's brother kick Creole, sooned sugar Hill

702
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 1: Records and won in court and wound up getting a

703
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:53,880
Speaker 1: deal and signing with Electrom.

704
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 3: Okay, so can I must go back a minute? So

705
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 3: she went, so she kind of split the rope up

706
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 3: that Yeah.

707
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:06,839
Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah. And you know the name of our group

708
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 1: was just called Grand Master Flash and uh we made

709
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 1: uh you semi semi snoop wong. You know, we did

710
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 1: a joint col girls loved the way he spins. Uh.

711
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:28,919
Speaker 1: We did Larry's dad's things like Larry Love. Yeah, that's

712
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:30,240
Speaker 1: that's actually my voice.

713
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, big record, that record that you know, big that

714
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 3: record was a Cleveland man.

715
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 1: It's yeah, yo, we can't Yeah, that's every voice you

716
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:44,280
Speaker 1: hear in that song is my books.

717
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:49,399
Speaker 3: That right, you know that was you know big Mike

718
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:50,359
Speaker 3: sample of that song.

719
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:56,240
Speaker 1: I believe, Oh it is did Okay, you're.

720
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:59,800
Speaker 3: Not hit to that? No, uh yeah, Big Mike Stample.

721
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 3: That song is the bigger the black of the nigga

722
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:04,360
Speaker 3: coming from the swamp, coming from the straight at New Orleans.

723
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 3: Who I had to go back and research. Man, Sorry,

724
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,399
Speaker 3: big Mike man, but I had to drop the dying man.

725
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 3: I don't know you clear the army man.

726
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 1: It's all off, big we ate because we definitely get

727
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:27,919
Speaker 1: for son, no sample usage from you know, quite quite

728
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 1: a few name brand artists and and and artists that

729
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:34,040
Speaker 1: aren't so mean burn.

730
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 3: Yeah that was a big record though. Man, that was

731
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:41,360
Speaker 3: a huge record. And you was calling me on something

732
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 3: and I consider myself a hip hop story, and man,

733
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 3: I didn't know that. I bet you Ate would have

734
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:50,439
Speaker 3: new that ship. Ate knows a lot about hip hop man, right, Yeah,

735
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 3: it's probably one of the only people I know that

736
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 3: can rival me. Man as far as going back and

737
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 3: knowing with certain stuff, I did not know that was

738
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 3: you guys, so pretty much. That's what splinter came between,

739
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 3: because I think that ultimately hurt both groups.

740
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, it absolutely did. I mean, you know, melod Melon

741
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 1: them recorded step step step step step off because you

742
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:17,400
Speaker 1: got step off because you know a step step step step,

743
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 1: you know, and that that didn't really it didn't really

744
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:24,799
Speaker 1: bang the way that you know, our songs did when

745
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:26,839
Speaker 1: we were all one group, you know what I mean.

746
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 1: And neither did our I mean Larry Larry's dance thing

747
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 1: UH did did decent for us. We had a song

748
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 1: that I also uh wrote most of the broken, most

749
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 1: of the n call you know what time it is

750
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 1: that that yep, and Flash kind of kind of uh

751
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 1: wanted me to wrap in a mono tone voice like

752
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 1: uh like busy bee, uh starsky Actually rock Kim kind

753
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:11,719
Speaker 1: of doing for kind of sounds, and so uh it

754
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:15,880
Speaker 1: kind of put me in Rock Kim in a bad uh,

755
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:19,280
Speaker 1: in a bad space because Rock Kim, I guess felt

756
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,800
Speaker 1: like I was biting him, biting his style, but really

757
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:27,360
Speaker 1: I was I was just doing what Flash asked me.

758
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:30,360
Speaker 1: It was an experiment, and I was rapping in the

759
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 1: mond tone style voice. And you know who else does that?

760
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 1: Jadkins raps in that style as well. Death. Yeah.

761
00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 3: You know what, It's funny that you mentioned that, man,

762
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:44,400
Speaker 3: because I was speaking with some of the homies the

763
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:50,320
Speaker 3: other day and I was telling them, man, that Rock Kim. Uh,

764
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:56,239
Speaker 3: it's almost to see of you the Today's New York MC.

765
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:59,320
Speaker 3: And I'm not talking about the younger kids babies, about

766
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:02,400
Speaker 3: the guys. And it came up in the nineties to

767
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:05,719
Speaker 3: early nineties man, through two thousands, like you know, from

768
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:10,759
Speaker 3: the Nine Sirs Jadakis. Is that influence is still there, you.

769
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 1: Know, it's still it fact and and you know the

770
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 1: irony of that is they you know, there's a tree

771
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:26,440
Speaker 1: you know that and you could trace every the lineage

772
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 1: of all of them seas back seem the origin, you know,

773
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:35,799
Speaker 1: the origin of where their style came from. And so

774
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:41,239
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's a few mcs that's from the

775
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 1: Bronx that you could trace people styles back to. And

776
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:50,440
Speaker 1: you know, but most people don't even know because a

777
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:53,880
Speaker 1: lot of the styles weren't attributing it or aren't attributing

778
00:53:53,920 --> 00:54:00,040
Speaker 1: it to those people they originated, you know what I mean, Yep.

779
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 3: You gotta name, uh you know, even even Mail. I

780
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 3: just think the business prob you know, you know, I'm

781
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:13,239
Speaker 3: not gonna says, but the business just squatched the whole

782
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 3: bunch of really talented people.

783
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 1: Man, oh absolutely, you know, and really just the.

784
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 3: People that didn't do you know, that did legendary stuff

785
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 3: but didn't do all that they probably.

786
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 1: Should have, right, right, right. And and then you know

787
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:32,239
Speaker 1: another thing, Well with Melly Mail, you know, he's my

788
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:37,279
Speaker 1: brother and the all nine, but uh, you know he

789
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 1: is his perspective on a lot of other rap artists

790
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:49,919
Speaker 1: doesn't really put him in a favorable position, uh, in

791
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:52,200
Speaker 1: a lot of people's eyes, and a lot of the

792
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:57,440
Speaker 1: newer generation of rap artists sides, uh, they and and

793
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 1: and you know his his team partner up my legendary

794
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 1: brother Scorpio, uh laughingly says all the time. And even

795
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:10,399
Speaker 1: Melie Mellow grease he's an are you know what I mean?

796
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:12,760
Speaker 3: But some to some.

797
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 1: Degree, I understand why, you know, uh, why he's an

798
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:25,600
Speaker 1: hater because the way that rap had has changed from

799
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 1: what was to what it is now. It's it's almost

800
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 1: it's almost laughable, like it's almost a joke, like they

801
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:42,799
Speaker 1: like they they spoofed our ship, like our ship at

802
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 1: one time. Okay, so you know not and not to

803
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:52,359
Speaker 1: point blame at anybody, but you know a lot of

804
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:59,360
Speaker 1: us do things for reasons that we feel would benefit us,

805
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:04,000
Speaker 1: our families and maybe even our communities. But maybe in

806
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:08,319
Speaker 1: the long run, it doesn't necessarily do that, you know,

807
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:12,279
Speaker 1: in the broader perspective. And what I mean by that is,

808
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:20,600
Speaker 1: let's take for example, so so rap music overall, it's

809
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:25,759
Speaker 1: the tremendous platform that we have to be able to

810
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 1: uh spread messages, you know, important messages to masses of people.

811
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 1: Right and and you know, because words are very powerful.

812
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:44,279
Speaker 1: You know, we as a people have been you know,

813
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:53,560
Speaker 1: tricked into believing or or out of believing into certain

814
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:59,520
Speaker 1: things that we once practiced because of certain taboos and

815
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:06,200
Speaker 1: have you. But you know, magic, magic is real. But

816
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 1: we many of us who don't understand what magic is,

817
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:15,319
Speaker 1: have the wrong concept of what magic actually is and

818
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:21,120
Speaker 1: how it works. So to cast a spell only means

819
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:22,760
Speaker 1: to say words or.

820
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:28,400
Speaker 4: Spell words, and all you needs existence exactly, and all

821
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:32,440
Speaker 4: you need for a spell to be effective are for

822
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 4: people to participate knowingly or unknowned.

823
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 3: Right.

824
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:41,840
Speaker 1: So here's a very simple example of magic spell. A nickname.

825
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 1: So back in the days when I was growing up,

826
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:51,280
Speaker 1: a nickname used to be Usually it was not a

827
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:56,040
Speaker 1: name that a person who was called the nickname be

828
00:57:56,160 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 1: sold upon themselves. It was usually a name that others

829
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:02,920
Speaker 1: be still upon them And usually it was too uh

830
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:09,600
Speaker 1: to describe some outstanding and feature characteristic or behavior or something.

831
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:10,400
Speaker 3: Right.

832
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 1: So, so I had three frings lay mouth and grawled up.

833
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 1: One was fat, one was skinny, and one had bad skin. Right.

834
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:24,520
Speaker 1: So you know how kids, we always clownb in the

835
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:30,440
Speaker 1: ship in the hood. So one day one of the

836
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:33,720
Speaker 1: Melvins was walking down the street. Fat Melville was walking

837
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:37,120
Speaker 1: down the street, and you know like that that we

838
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 1: called them fat. But what he forgot to do or

839
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 1: that he was unaware of was he never vehemently shut

840
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 1: down the spell that we cast over him when we

841
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:55,600
Speaker 1: named him fat met all right, And what and what

842
00:58:55,680 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 1: made the spell effective was the fact that one day

843
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 1: he was walking on the street and one of us

844
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:05,000
Speaker 1: called out to him, and your fat male, and he

845
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:08,880
Speaker 1: turned around and responded to the shit. So now forevermore,

846
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 1: this nigga name is fat male, and so bumpy face Mal,

847
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:17,919
Speaker 1: same shit, yo, bumpy face Mail, he responded to the shit,

848
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:21,240
Speaker 1: so forevermore, his name is bumpy face Mal and skinny

849
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:23,840
Speaker 1: Mel the same shit. And none of them wanted to

850
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:27,480
Speaker 1: be called these names, but that's their names forever a life.

851
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 3: You gotta so you probably gotta dude running around New

852
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 3: York called everybody called fat.

853
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:40,040
Speaker 1: Male exactly exactly. So he might have lost seventy pounds

854
00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:45,160
Speaker 1: since then, even yo, even after he lost one hundred pounds,

855
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:50,040
Speaker 1: he was skinny. Niggas was calling him fat male because now,

856
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 1: how that's the only way to distinguish fat male from

857
00:59:54,200 --> 01:00:00,240
Speaker 1: skinny mal, even though fat mal is skinny. Now that's something, know.

858
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:04,040
Speaker 3: You know what, that's deep, man, The tongue does manifest, man,

859
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:06,720
Speaker 3: you know that's the word though that Scripture, the Tongue

860
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:07,760
Speaker 3: manifest Life and.

861
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 1: Death absolutely bro so. So my point in saying all

862
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:19,640
Speaker 1: of this is, in nineteen eighty nine, Public Enemy dropped

863
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 1: Fight the Power, Right. It was a massive hit. It

864
01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:29,280
Speaker 1: was a massive hit and could have possibly reinsurged the

865
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:32,960
Speaker 1: whole Black Power movement. But the powers that be they

866
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:37,040
Speaker 1: couldn't have that shit. So what they did was the

867
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 1: very next year they ushered in gangster rap. Okay, And

868
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:48,120
Speaker 1: if every day of your young, impressionable life, all you

869
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:52,960
Speaker 1: hear in your ear from your favorite artists who are

870
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:55,960
Speaker 1: probably in your ear more hours of day than your

871
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:58,840
Speaker 1: parent and your teacher, and they're telling you that the

872
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 1: very blueprint to their success is to stand on the

873
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:09,000
Speaker 1: corner and shoot niggas. Botholes, sold Percot sets, molly coke,

874
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:16,160
Speaker 1: dope and whatever the most influenced or demographics and percentage

875
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:18,480
Speaker 1: of the population becoming that.

876
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:23,600
Speaker 3: Now, did you think that was a concerted effort from

877
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:26,560
Speaker 3: the recording industry or do you think it could be

878
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:29,520
Speaker 3: also just because times were changing? You know, you got

879
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 3: to remember around the rise against the Rap, you had

880
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:36,400
Speaker 3: to crack epidemic. You had you know, major companies in

881
01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:43,240
Speaker 3: places like Detroit, you know, places like Detroit, Chicago, you know, Indiana,

882
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:47,560
Speaker 3: places they were traditionally manufacturing hubs shutting down and that

883
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:50,120
Speaker 3: coincide and the crack apandemic. Do you think that could

884
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:53,919
Speaker 3: have had a little influence on the rap lyrics?

885
01:01:54,520 --> 01:02:01,120
Speaker 1: Well, okay, so let's look at it like this. Let's

886
01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:04,400
Speaker 1: look at you know, the way that evolution was right

887
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:13,280
Speaker 1: and the evolutionary process is such that so so prior

888
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:20,920
Speaker 1: to rap music, we we held ourselves to a certain

889
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:23,600
Speaker 1: set of standards as.

890
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:24,280
Speaker 3: Far as music.

891
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:31,280
Speaker 1: You know, we had musical icons legends that predate rap

892
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:35,840
Speaker 1: music like Stevie Wonder, you know, Prince Michael Jackson. We

893
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:39,040
Speaker 1: have you know, Gladys Knight and the Pip, Smokey Robinson,

894
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 1: you know Quincy Jones. So these are musicians and entertainers

895
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:48,960
Speaker 1: who immensely talented and they set the barn right. And

896
01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:55,480
Speaker 1: so when rap music was ushered in, initially rap music

897
01:02:55,800 --> 01:03:02,480
Speaker 1: was you know, non threatening, was about a party, you know. Uh.

898
01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:06,960
Speaker 1: And then when we came out message, it changed the

899
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:16,480
Speaker 1: scope and gave people, uh a picturesque view in words

900
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:19,400
Speaker 1: of what it was like growing up in the look right.

901
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:22,720
Speaker 3: I think it was the first gamester rap record to

902
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:25,240
Speaker 3: beat for all practical for all intensive purposes.

903
01:03:25,640 --> 01:03:29,520
Speaker 1: I hear a lot of people saying that, right. But now,

904
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:32,840
Speaker 1: so now we didn't. We didn't. We weren't in any

905
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:38,800
Speaker 1: way glaborizing gangsterism. Uh at that time, we were just

906
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:44,200
Speaker 1: talking about what was going on in our community, right, okay.

907
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:50,280
Speaker 1: And so gangster a rap to a large degree, did

908
01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:57,040
Speaker 1: the same thing. However, uh it beat They adopted a

909
01:03:57,080 --> 01:04:02,120
Speaker 1: cookie cutter mentality where every rap artists during that era

910
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:05,600
Speaker 1: was talking about the exact same thing, and they were

911
01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:09,040
Speaker 1: doing they were talking about they were doing the same thing.

912
01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:11,760
Speaker 1: All of them was, you know, selling crack, you know,

913
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:16,480
Speaker 1: shooting me this fucking old selling drugs, right, Okay. So,

914
01:04:17,080 --> 01:04:22,120
Speaker 1: now I don't believe in the term conspiracy theorists because

915
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:27,240
Speaker 1: of the fact that you know, it's child in nature

916
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:32,800
Speaker 1: to think, right, it's human nature thing. And so the

917
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:39,040
Speaker 1: people who are committing conspiracies are the very motherfuckers who

918
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:44,240
Speaker 1: are who label people who are on today bullshit as

919
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:45,680
Speaker 1: conspiracy theorists.

920
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:46,000
Speaker 3: Right.

921
01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:50,080
Speaker 1: So, but this isn't a conspiracy theory. I happened to

922
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:55,280
Speaker 1: know that this these series of meetings actually took place. Uh,

923
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:59,080
Speaker 1: And I actually heard crazy Bone from Bald Dug's and

924
01:04:59,120 --> 01:05:03,320
Speaker 1: harmony and saw him on video talking about the exact

925
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:08,800
Speaker 1: same series of meetings. In nineteen ninety, a company called

926
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:14,600
Speaker 1: Whack and Lut and a company called Corrections Corporations of America,

927
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:18,760
Speaker 1: and some of the top music industry mobiles and some

928
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:26,320
Speaker 1: artists got together and had closed door secret meetings to

929
01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:32,480
Speaker 1: have the artists and the record company executives invest in

930
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:41,120
Speaker 1: brand new probably owned prisons and the government. This company,

931
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:45,480
Speaker 1: Whack and Lut and Corrections Corporations of America made deals

932
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 1: with forty eight states to have a privately owned trace

933
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:52,920
Speaker 1: of erecting each respective state based on the condition that

934
01:05:53,040 --> 01:05:57,560
Speaker 1: each state could maintain a ninety percent incarceration rate. So

935
01:05:58,640 --> 01:06:05,240
Speaker 1: if you are rored casting a set, all, right, which

936
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:10,560
Speaker 1: is what radio does. They broadcast, So broadcasting is just

937
01:06:11,040 --> 01:06:16,760
Speaker 1: casting spells on a much broader level, right. And the

938
01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:21,000
Speaker 1: people who program the radio of what we what we

939
01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:23,920
Speaker 1: hear on the radio and what we see on television

940
01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:29,000
Speaker 1: are called program directors. So they tolgram the music and

941
01:06:29,080 --> 01:06:35,000
Speaker 1: the visuals that program the listeners right and the viewers right.

942
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:41,120
Speaker 1: And so visual imagitice and audio signals are two things

943
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:46,200
Speaker 1: that enter a person's subconscious mind without our permission. A

944
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:50,360
Speaker 1: right perfect example of that is the fact that once

945
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:54,840
Speaker 1: you see something you cannot unsee. Once you hear something,

946
01:06:54,920 --> 01:06:59,440
Speaker 1: you cannot unhear it. So true, so visual imagist and

947
01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:05,000
Speaker 1: audio signals enter our subconscious mind without our permission. Kay,

948
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:07,480
Speaker 1: So because of that.

949
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:18,439
Speaker 5: Being fed uh a sun room like like uh, which

950
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:21,560
Speaker 5: I loved the song uh by Nate Dogg and Snoop

951
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:25,600
Speaker 5: Uh uh Uh, it.

952
01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:30,680
Speaker 1: Ain't no fun unless man, right, I love that song.

953
01:07:31,160 --> 01:07:36,400
Speaker 1: But hearing a song like that in perpetuity, you know,

954
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:41,080
Speaker 1: in heavy rotation, Uh, even though they're bleeping the curse

955
01:07:41,120 --> 01:07:43,600
Speaker 1: words out, they know what the fuck? You know, kids

956
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:46,200
Speaker 1: ain't stupid. They know what the curse words, and they

957
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:49,439
Speaker 1: saying every all of the curse words along with the song.

958
01:07:49,600 --> 01:07:49,800
Speaker 3: Right.

959
01:07:50,240 --> 01:07:57,520
Speaker 1: So, now society already doesn't promote family, They already don't

960
01:07:57,520 --> 01:08:01,880
Speaker 1: promote love. Right, we be hard, crusty hell love songs

961
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:05,440
Speaker 1: on the radio and right it's all songs about having

962
01:08:05,560 --> 01:08:11,360
Speaker 1: sex as opposed to uh, everything is hyper sexualized. It's

963
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:17,120
Speaker 1: not it's not about love, it's about you know, sex. Right, So,

964
01:08:17,120 --> 01:08:20,640
Speaker 1: so what is a young man to think of a

965
01:08:20,720 --> 01:08:23,519
Speaker 1: young woman when he hears songs like.

966
01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:26,920
Speaker 3: You know? Uh?

967
01:08:27,960 --> 01:08:35,360
Speaker 1: Uh? These hose ain't Lord or you know uh or

968
01:08:37,320 --> 01:08:39,600
Speaker 1: hose hop Jesus holds that.

969
01:08:42,760 --> 01:08:44,800
Speaker 3: I don't want to interrupt your point, but you know what,

970
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:47,840
Speaker 3: I just had a thought, right, But none of the

971
01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:51,040
Speaker 3: rappers that came out that were gangster rappers ever called

972
01:08:51,080 --> 01:08:55,919
Speaker 3: themselves gangster rappers. They call themselves reality rappers. The powers

973
01:08:55,920 --> 01:09:01,120
Speaker 3: that he called them they did, they did come in

974
01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:05,800
Speaker 3: and rebrand that and repackage it. This is gangster wrap facts.

975
01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:09,200
Speaker 3: You go back, you never heard nobody say, oh, I'm

976
01:09:09,240 --> 01:09:12,479
Speaker 3: a gangster rapper. They always say a reality wrapper because

977
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:15,879
Speaker 3: most of those guys. The one thing that the Mexics

978
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:18,080
Speaker 3: did is to show people is everything was a party

979
01:09:18,160 --> 01:09:22,559
Speaker 3: up until that point. It's people that, hey, we go,

980
01:09:22,760 --> 01:09:25,680
Speaker 3: let's talk about our community and the conditions that you

981
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:30,760
Speaker 3: know that currently got us, you know, up underground right now, right.

982
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:34,120
Speaker 3: So you're right, I agree one hundred.

983
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:34,800
Speaker 1: Percent with you.

984
01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:39,080
Speaker 3: And that meeting makes you speak of you said it

985
01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:41,280
Speaker 3: was with wacken Hut and what was the other company?

986
01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:46,000
Speaker 1: Corrections Corporations of America. Matter of fact, one of my

987
01:09:46,360 --> 01:09:51,240
Speaker 1: legendary brothers, gram Mixer d x T, who did the

988
01:09:51,280 --> 01:09:56,200
Speaker 1: scratching on Herbie and Cocksaw Rocket, which y'all friends. He

989
01:09:56,280 --> 01:10:04,719
Speaker 1: gave me a photograph of h so uh minister uhh

990
01:10:05,720 --> 01:10:10,840
Speaker 1: not minister, excuse me Dan. He was the representative for

991
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:14,719
Speaker 1: the Nation of Islam under Lewis Barak Khan at the time,

992
01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:19,559
Speaker 1: but he was also the head of the former head

993
01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:26,280
Speaker 1: of the NUA A CP Damn. He'll call his name

994
01:10:26,360 --> 01:10:29,040
Speaker 1: right in second, he'll come to me. But I have

995
01:10:29,200 --> 01:10:34,760
Speaker 1: the photograph of him baby from cash money Uh dame

996
01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:42,120
Speaker 1: that uh graand mix of d x T and then

997
01:10:42,479 --> 01:10:46,440
Speaker 1: a few other people at one of the early meetings,

998
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:49,759
Speaker 1: and and all of the meetings that were taking place

999
01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:55,440
Speaker 1: between corrections Corporations of America, the music industry, mobiles, artists,

1000
01:10:55,640 --> 01:10:59,559
Speaker 1: and whack and hut uh were being used as bedding

1001
01:10:59,640 --> 01:11:03,960
Speaker 1: poss us to determine who was gonna be down with

1002
01:11:04,080 --> 01:11:09,160
Speaker 1: it and who wasn't. And some people were escorted out

1003
01:11:09,160 --> 01:11:14,280
Speaker 1: of the meetings at gunpoint and threatened with their jobs

1004
01:11:14,400 --> 01:11:15,920
Speaker 1: and their lives.

1005
01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:19,639
Speaker 3: Oh so they really was treading people's lives at these meetings.

1006
01:11:20,200 --> 01:11:22,960
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah. They was like, Yo, first of all,

1007
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:27,920
Speaker 1: you had to sign NBAS so you know, you couldn't

1008
01:11:27,960 --> 01:11:30,640
Speaker 1: talk about it. But if you did talk about it

1009
01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:35,080
Speaker 1: and you were opposed to the idea of make it

1010
01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:42,080
Speaker 1: because they were openly suggested to the artists that now

1011
01:11:42,280 --> 01:11:45,680
Speaker 1: the kind of music that you need to make is

1012
01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:51,759
Speaker 1: gangster rap, because we need to keep the prisons filled

1013
01:11:52,120 --> 01:11:56,320
Speaker 1: by influencing the listeners that listen to this type of

1014
01:11:56,439 --> 01:11:58,440
Speaker 1: music to become criminals.

1015
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:03,639
Speaker 3: And it was a lot of music. I will tell

1016
01:12:03,720 --> 01:12:07,240
Speaker 3: you that I'm in a green situ with this. During

1017
01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:09,920
Speaker 3: the nineties, like between ninety one and I would say

1018
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:14,400
Speaker 3: ninety five, right, you had a really big influx of

1019
01:12:14,439 --> 01:12:18,639
Speaker 3: people coming from everywhere. And I'm not I'm not talking

1020
01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:22,080
Speaker 3: about the NWA's cube, you know, the type of stuff

1021
01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:25,280
Speaker 3: the word they just talking about the community I'm talking about.

1022
01:12:25,360 --> 01:12:28,240
Speaker 3: You had brothers who was killing five people on the song,

1023
01:12:28,880 --> 01:12:33,000
Speaker 3: ralling metric times of cocaine just you know, you know,

1024
01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:36,280
Speaker 3: it got kind of like really wild, and so at

1025
01:12:36,280 --> 01:12:38,800
Speaker 3: a point it was like, man, damn, this stuff is

1026
01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:41,599
Speaker 3: kind of going out of control. Everybody kind of looked

1027
01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:45,320
Speaker 3: like them. It wasn't a MC eight ice cube type

1028
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:49,080
Speaker 3: of music. It was really fortuitous violence in these songs.

1029
01:12:49,479 --> 01:12:59,320
Speaker 1: Absolutely yes. And you know, listening to this repetitiously, listening

1030
01:12:59,400 --> 01:13:04,200
Speaker 1: to you know, gangs to rap repetitiously, I'm sixty one

1031
01:13:04,280 --> 01:13:10,240
Speaker 1: years old. When I listen to DMX, but when I

1032
01:13:10,280 --> 01:13:13,120
Speaker 1: listen to Tupac and I'm behind the wheel of a

1033
01:13:13,200 --> 01:13:18,360
Speaker 1: car or if I'm working out, it makes me feel

1034
01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:24,680
Speaker 1: more aggressive. You know, I'm not saying that I go

1035
01:13:24,720 --> 01:13:30,519
Speaker 1: out and kill somebody, but it does, you know, put

1036
01:13:30,600 --> 01:13:35,599
Speaker 1: a certain level of aggression, and so I can only

1037
01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:42,479
Speaker 1: imagine the level of aggression it puts into someone. You know,

1038
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:48,559
Speaker 1: who's from seventeen eighteen. You've heard me, Who's Who's a

1039
01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:51,320
Speaker 1: gang bang? Listening to that ship?

1040
01:13:52,280 --> 01:13:56,000
Speaker 3: You know, there's a powerful influence on everybody's psyche and mind.

1041
01:13:57,120 --> 01:14:00,280
Speaker 1: Music is music is sour.

1042
01:14:01,880 --> 01:14:06,800
Speaker 3: Hours. Well, you know the ministry of music was God

1043
01:14:06,920 --> 01:14:11,880
Speaker 3: supposed right past? Yes, you know so that that tells

1044
01:14:11,880 --> 01:14:15,320
Speaker 3: you right there, Yes, you have a lot of guys.

1045
01:14:16,200 --> 01:14:17,960
Speaker 3: It has a strong informance. You have a lot of

1046
01:14:18,000 --> 01:14:20,920
Speaker 3: guys now that wrap up popping fields to worry. As

1047
01:14:21,080 --> 01:14:24,120
Speaker 3: Mike generation, when I was coming up, if you was

1048
01:14:24,160 --> 01:14:26,280
Speaker 3: a fiend, last last thing you wanted to do was

1049
01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:29,840
Speaker 3: a dope? We did just say no generation exactly. It

1050
01:14:29,880 --> 01:14:32,200
Speaker 3: was like, you want to become no dope thing. That

1051
01:14:32,280 --> 01:14:34,759
Speaker 3: was the biggest fear, Like, oh man, your brother fiend.

1052
01:14:35,160 --> 01:14:37,519
Speaker 3: That was like the older man. You feel what I mean,

1053
01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:42,320
Speaker 3: because everybody saw that with cracking to the communities, nobody

1054
01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:45,560
Speaker 3: wanted to Nobody wanted to become a base.

1055
01:14:45,320 --> 01:14:51,120
Speaker 1: Head exactly, but don't want to walk sort of. So

1056
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:54,120
Speaker 1: that the funny thing about that is, you know, we

1057
01:14:54,120 --> 01:14:59,600
Speaker 1: we all experimental and had our at our time with

1058
01:14:59,600 --> 01:15:02,880
Speaker 1: with co King and Crack and all of that, but

1059
01:15:03,360 --> 01:15:06,920
Speaker 1: he was prior seeing it being called crack, so we

1060
01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:11,840
Speaker 1: was freebasing. Like we toured with, you know, groups like Parliament, Fun,

1061
01:15:11,920 --> 01:15:16,639
Speaker 1: Cadelic and Rick James my my big aquarian well rest

1062
01:15:16,680 --> 01:15:20,000
Speaker 1: in peace. And every time Rick James would come to

1063
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:22,640
Speaker 1: New York City he would call me because were the

1064
01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:25,800
Speaker 1: same sign and he kind of put me under his

1065
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:30,040
Speaker 1: wing and hang out and go everywhere. I met uh

1066
01:15:30,160 --> 01:15:33,680
Speaker 1: Eddie Murphy through Rick James, I met Smokey Robinson. Uh

1067
01:15:33,760 --> 01:15:39,320
Speaker 1: we drove down the uh NBC studios and hang out

1068
01:15:39,360 --> 01:15:42,760
Speaker 1: at Saturday Night Live and for Murphy finished doing the

1069
01:15:42,800 --> 01:15:45,200
Speaker 1: show and then go to the studio fifty four and

1070
01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:47,439
Speaker 1: and you know he was getting high.

1071
01:15:48,200 --> 01:15:52,640
Speaker 3: You know things I heard he was known for really getting.

1072
01:15:52,360 --> 01:15:58,200
Speaker 1: Eye Oh absolutely, you know, I mean I recorded me

1073
01:15:58,360 --> 01:16:03,000
Speaker 1: Mellie Bell and Scorio recorded the song with Rick James

1074
01:16:03,040 --> 01:16:06,840
Speaker 1: on his cold blooded album called Pimp the Seven. And

1075
01:16:07,360 --> 01:16:11,040
Speaker 1: when we were in the studio, Rick had he literally

1076
01:16:11,120 --> 01:16:15,880
Speaker 1: had a shoebox still from the bottom to the top

1077
01:16:16,040 --> 01:16:21,919
Speaker 1: with coke and he was passing that ship around the studio. So, yeah,

1078
01:16:23,520 --> 01:16:28,040
Speaker 1: shoebox filled with cochin, you know what I mean. So

1079
01:16:29,080 --> 01:16:32,360
Speaker 1: I did that ship for three years of straight of

1080
01:16:32,400 --> 01:16:37,320
Speaker 1: my life, every day until I decided I didn't want

1081
01:16:37,360 --> 01:16:39,559
Speaker 1: to do that ship no more. I stopped. I stopped

1082
01:16:39,640 --> 01:16:42,400
Speaker 1: using cocaine and smoking cigarettes to same death.

1083
01:16:44,640 --> 01:16:47,280
Speaker 3: Know what. That's what I was saying. The crack was

1084
01:16:47,320 --> 01:16:50,640
Speaker 3: some different stuff because in the seventies, late sixties, me

1085
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:54,240
Speaker 3: and Too Short had the same conversation. Some blow was

1086
01:16:54,680 --> 01:16:57,800
Speaker 3: ball and stuff. It was looked at his player stuff exactly.

1087
01:16:58,560 --> 01:17:00,960
Speaker 3: People did blow on the week. We'll go back to

1088
01:17:01,040 --> 01:17:03,720
Speaker 3: work on Monday. They never had a problem, so we

1089
01:17:03,800 --> 01:17:07,080
Speaker 3: just quit like you did. But when they started free

1090
01:17:07,080 --> 01:17:09,840
Speaker 3: basing that stuff, well, actually when it turned into crack,

1091
01:17:09,920 --> 01:17:12,840
Speaker 3: because free base with some ball and stuff too facts.

1092
01:17:12,920 --> 01:17:14,920
Speaker 1: I agree, Yeah, I couldn't.

1093
01:17:15,040 --> 01:17:17,280
Speaker 3: The average person. It just wasn't a free based It

1094
01:17:17,320 --> 01:17:20,839
Speaker 3: costs too much money. But when they made that crack.

1095
01:17:21,680 --> 01:17:26,559
Speaker 1: Uh huh, man. Oh absolutely that. The first time of

1096
01:17:26,560 --> 01:17:30,640
Speaker 1: a freebase was with certain olds from followed me from

1097
01:17:30,680 --> 01:17:36,799
Speaker 1: Uncle Delic, and we were on tour together and he asked,

1098
01:17:37,080 --> 01:17:39,559
Speaker 1: he said, y'all want to smoke some king and so

1099
01:17:39,720 --> 01:17:42,280
Speaker 1: you know, we was about to go on stage and

1100
01:17:42,320 --> 01:17:45,840
Speaker 1: everybody said no except me, and I thought he was

1101
01:17:45,880 --> 01:17:48,520
Speaker 1: gonna make a coolie like put some cane and cigarette

1102
01:17:48,760 --> 01:17:51,240
Speaker 1: and our smoke the light. So he pulled out a

1103
01:17:51,320 --> 01:17:56,519
Speaker 1: briefcase and had some box of bacon soda tested. It

1104
01:17:56,560 --> 01:18:01,080
Speaker 1: looked like test two better ninos. Looked like he was

1105
01:18:01,080 --> 01:18:04,120
Speaker 1: setting up a laboratory and ship. So we started cooking

1106
01:18:04,160 --> 01:18:07,080
Speaker 1: that ship up. And then he put a big rock

1107
01:18:07,160 --> 01:18:10,720
Speaker 1: into pipes and UH told me to hit this and

1108
01:18:11,120 --> 01:18:14,280
Speaker 1: hold it in, and so I did. But I didn't

1109
01:18:14,360 --> 01:18:16,880
Speaker 1: understand what the high I was like. Yo, I didn't

1110
01:18:16,920 --> 01:18:21,200
Speaker 1: understand what to expect. So I went on about my business.

1111
01:18:21,280 --> 01:18:23,439
Speaker 1: After I took a few bits, and when we got

1112
01:18:23,439 --> 01:18:27,360
Speaker 1: on stage, when we got to the message and it

1113
01:18:27,439 --> 01:18:32,400
Speaker 1: was time to start, so I doing my parts. The

1114
01:18:32,479 --> 01:18:38,200
Speaker 1: ship hit me and so instead of me UH getting

1115
01:18:38,240 --> 01:18:41,680
Speaker 1: on the mic and saying saying my purse, I go

1116
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:44,800
Speaker 1: back to the DJ, to the to the turntables and

1117
01:18:44,840 --> 01:18:49,600
Speaker 1: I say, the flash your flash, Yo, you've seen sir? Old?

1118
01:18:50,479 --> 01:18:53,360
Speaker 1: He like, what you know? Why he didn't?

1119
01:18:54,400 --> 01:18:54,559
Speaker 3: Yo?

1120
01:18:54,880 --> 01:18:57,680
Speaker 1: FU are you asking me right now? Like we we

1121
01:18:57,800 --> 01:18:58,519
Speaker 1: in the middle of it.

1122
01:18:58,720 --> 01:18:58,920
Speaker 3: RYL.

1123
01:18:59,479 --> 01:19:01,360
Speaker 1: I'm like, I know, but you're the DJ, and you

1124
01:19:01,400 --> 01:19:03,519
Speaker 1: could stop the record and start the record. Ain't tell

1125
01:19:03,560 --> 01:19:06,400
Speaker 1: him you want so just start the recond you know.

1126
01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:08,599
Speaker 1: After I you know, I just asked you a question.

1127
01:19:08,680 --> 01:19:13,000
Speaker 1: You see, sir, you see him? He like, Nigga, get

1128
01:19:13,040 --> 01:19:18,320
Speaker 1: your ass back up both So I go back on

1129
01:19:18,360 --> 01:19:23,320
Speaker 1: the mic and ship. But that's when I realized. After that,

1130
01:19:23,920 --> 01:19:26,160
Speaker 1: it was it was every day after that for like

1131
01:19:26,439 --> 01:19:31,519
Speaker 1: three years until I decided, Yo, this is some bullshit R.

1132
01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:35,200
Speaker 3: You know the thing about that free base man, I

1133
01:19:35,240 --> 01:19:40,439
Speaker 3: had a brother that was addicted to crack, right, Thank God,

1134
01:19:40,640 --> 01:19:43,320
Speaker 3: may've been clamping man for like the last ten years,

1135
01:19:43,360 --> 01:19:46,519
Speaker 3: you know, right, Glad to have him back. But he

1136
01:19:46,680 --> 01:19:49,400
Speaker 3: told me, man, he said, man, when I hit that pipe,

1137
01:19:50,920 --> 01:19:53,759
Speaker 3: he said, I smoked some loolies before, but he said,

1138
01:19:54,439 --> 01:19:57,240
Speaker 3: when I actually hit that pipe, he said, man, it

1139
01:19:57,320 --> 01:19:59,080
Speaker 3: was like the fourth of July. It was like the

1140
01:19:59,120 --> 01:20:01,640
Speaker 3: whole new side of my mind got turned on and

1141
01:20:01,680 --> 01:20:03,720
Speaker 3: I wanted to get that feeling again. So I was

1142
01:20:03,760 --> 01:20:05,680
Speaker 3: looking for it day in and day out, and it

1143
01:20:05,720 --> 01:20:07,760
Speaker 3: never came back exactly.

1144
01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:10,920
Speaker 1: That's that's the absolute truth, that feeling that first still

1145
01:20:10,920 --> 01:20:11,719
Speaker 1: had never come.

1146
01:20:13,080 --> 01:20:18,439
Speaker 3: Yeah. So he said he ever got it? Yep, yep. Yeah,

1147
01:20:18,720 --> 01:20:20,600
Speaker 3: So that's who was going. So were you able to

1148
01:20:20,680 --> 01:20:21,799
Speaker 3: just stop cold Turkey?

1149
01:20:22,560 --> 01:20:27,400
Speaker 1: Cold Turkey? Like one day I woke up October nineteenth,

1150
01:20:27,479 --> 01:20:33,040
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six. I woke up and I was like, yo,

1151
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:35,839
Speaker 1: I ain't doing this shit no more. I was smoking

1152
01:20:35,880 --> 01:20:40,120
Speaker 1: cigarettes at the time too, So I stopped smoking cigarettes

1153
01:20:40,160 --> 01:20:41,960
Speaker 1: and cocaine the same day.

1154
01:20:42,479 --> 01:20:45,519
Speaker 3: And I double looked back and the crack epidemic was

1155
01:20:45,600 --> 01:20:48,200
Speaker 3: heavy back then. So you got out just in time.

1156
01:20:48,760 --> 01:20:51,519
Speaker 3: It really was make it out. A lot of people

1157
01:20:51,600 --> 01:20:53,080
Speaker 3: didn't make it out that period, man.

1158
01:20:53,680 --> 01:20:57,640
Speaker 1: And the craziest shit is, you know, you know, I was,

1159
01:20:58,560 --> 01:21:00,639
Speaker 1: I was going on tour and shit like with Rick

1160
01:21:00,720 --> 01:21:03,480
Speaker 1: James and all that. I come old to the projects

1161
01:21:04,160 --> 01:21:07,960
Speaker 1: and I would get my friends high, and so a

1162
01:21:07,960 --> 01:21:10,320
Speaker 1: lot of my friends that I would get high, like

1163
01:21:10,760 --> 01:21:16,120
Speaker 1: I actually got the book and that's wuked up. And yeah, you.

1164
01:21:16,080 --> 01:21:19,240
Speaker 3: Said, grocery is a powerful thing influence. Man. You're you're

1165
01:21:19,240 --> 01:21:21,760
Speaker 3: probably the coolest dude they hang out with and you're

1166
01:21:21,760 --> 01:21:25,160
Speaker 3: smoking cocaine. Now you got them smoking it. They thought

1167
01:21:25,160 --> 01:21:29,559
Speaker 3: they was something big exactly, and all the stuff you're

1168
01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:32,439
Speaker 3: talking about, man, I think it plays into what you

1169
01:21:32,520 --> 01:21:36,280
Speaker 3: were saying. I think that there's always been a big,

1170
01:21:36,680 --> 01:21:40,360
Speaker 3: crying conspiracy man to destroy all people of color.

1171
01:21:40,840 --> 01:21:41,040
Speaker 1: Oh.

1172
01:21:41,120 --> 01:21:47,640
Speaker 3: Absolutely, yeah. I believe one hundred percent noted that meeting happened,

1173
01:21:48,040 --> 01:21:51,000
Speaker 3: because I've been in meetings man as a manager and

1174
01:21:52,680 --> 01:21:55,120
Speaker 3: you know, working in the industry, man, to where that's

1175
01:21:55,160 --> 01:21:57,800
Speaker 3: what they want. It was a time that that's all

1176
01:21:57,840 --> 01:22:01,080
Speaker 3: they wanted. They would take clean ask That's why you

1177
01:22:01,160 --> 01:22:06,640
Speaker 3: find out so many people loanings now because they were asked,

1178
01:22:06,880 --> 01:22:08,439
Speaker 3: if you want to get this record deal, that we

1179
01:22:08,479 --> 01:22:11,160
Speaker 3: need you making this type of music exactly.

1180
01:22:11,400 --> 01:22:17,160
Speaker 1: That that's absolutely right. And you know, you know when

1181
01:22:17,600 --> 01:22:21,400
Speaker 1: when you're in a position of neediness, you know a

1182
01:22:22,120 --> 01:22:25,840
Speaker 1: lot of people are willing to do something strange for

1183
01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:30,800
Speaker 1: a little piece of change and and to them, to you,

1184
01:22:30,800 --> 01:22:35,240
Speaker 1: you can justify it because you're in a position of needingness.

1185
01:22:35,479 --> 01:22:37,439
Speaker 1: You know, you're trying to get your family out of

1186
01:22:37,479 --> 01:22:41,280
Speaker 1: the hoods. You've got kids, you know, say day day

1187
01:22:41,320 --> 01:22:44,000
Speaker 1: of the age where they go in elementary school or

1188
01:22:44,520 --> 01:22:48,160
Speaker 1: or you know, junior high school or high school, and

1189
01:22:48,200 --> 01:22:50,799
Speaker 1: you want them to be able to go to decent

1190
01:22:50,880 --> 01:22:55,800
Speaker 1: schools and decent neighborhoods. So all of these things are

1191
01:22:56,840 --> 01:23:02,439
Speaker 1: you know, are enticing to to make you want to,

1192
01:23:03,320 --> 01:23:05,960
Speaker 1: you know, uh play the game.

1193
01:23:07,360 --> 01:23:12,160
Speaker 3: But you know there's a price, a major heavy price,

1194
01:23:12,520 --> 01:23:12,720
Speaker 3: you know.

1195
01:23:13,360 --> 01:23:17,160
Speaker 1: And I'm sorry. I just want to say, most of

1196
01:23:17,240 --> 01:23:20,880
Speaker 1: the artists that you know make that kind of music

1197
01:23:21,439 --> 01:23:26,040
Speaker 1: that have children that are all the age of influence,

1198
01:23:26,400 --> 01:23:29,920
Speaker 1: they absolutely don't allow their children to listen to her music.

1199
01:23:30,600 --> 01:23:35,040
Speaker 1: I've seen, I've seen Cardi B scream on her daughter

1200
01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:38,280
Speaker 1: from trying to listen to her music, her own music.

1201
01:23:38,800 --> 01:23:40,960
Speaker 1: She won't even let her daughter listen to her music,

1202
01:23:42,680 --> 01:23:49,439
Speaker 1: you know, I mean right, but you don't never want

1203
01:23:49,439 --> 01:23:53,280
Speaker 1: to do game right for anybody else kids to do

1204
01:23:53,320 --> 01:23:59,920
Speaker 1: that ship m And I'm not believing Cardi B, you know, necessarily.

1205
01:24:00,200 --> 01:24:02,040
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that's just the nature of.

1206
01:24:02,040 --> 01:24:05,760
Speaker 3: The beats you feel, yeah, for real, for real, you know,

1207
01:24:05,880 --> 01:24:08,960
Speaker 3: speaking the gangst the rap, you eventually wound up working

1208
01:24:08,960 --> 01:24:13,080
Speaker 3: out with working with a legendary producer. When did you

1209
01:24:13,120 --> 01:24:14,439
Speaker 3: come out here and start working with.

1210
01:24:14,439 --> 01:24:23,439
Speaker 1: Drey nineteen ninety eight, two thousand, two thousand and one.

1211
01:24:23,680 --> 01:24:26,559
Speaker 1: Nineteen ninety eight to two thousand and one, I was

1212
01:24:26,600 --> 01:24:31,240
Speaker 1: working Doctor Dre as a staff producer, mean met man.

1213
01:24:32,640 --> 01:24:36,439
Speaker 1: I don't remember all the other producers that he had

1214
01:24:36,520 --> 01:24:39,400
Speaker 1: on staff with him, but I was signed to him

1215
01:24:39,600 --> 01:24:42,400
Speaker 1: right up before each side l kit Son.

1216
01:24:44,200 --> 01:24:46,800
Speaker 3: Oh wow man, you came in as he was transitioning

1217
01:24:46,800 --> 01:24:50,320
Speaker 3: into that period, I think, and Dre went through periods

1218
01:24:50,400 --> 01:24:53,439
Speaker 3: right like he had the nw A period right then

1219
01:24:53,479 --> 01:24:56,000
Speaker 3: he had the old Snoop Dogg period, you know Snoop

1220
01:24:56,040 --> 01:24:59,200
Speaker 3: Dogg there from period to where he did that right

1221
01:24:59,280 --> 01:25:01,920
Speaker 3: then he like took it up. And I think that Trey,

1222
01:25:02,680 --> 01:25:07,160
Speaker 3: deep down his side always wanted to develop East Coast artists.

1223
01:25:07,479 --> 01:25:10,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so as well. In fact, he was

1224
01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:14,800
Speaker 1: on those guards sign uh Melly mail on scut yeo

1225
01:25:15,640 --> 01:25:22,599
Speaker 1: uh too to his label, but they were not willing

1226
01:25:22,760 --> 01:25:26,720
Speaker 1: to change their their style, their look. He wanted, he

1227
01:25:26,760 --> 01:25:29,720
Speaker 1: wanted them to change their luck and it wasn't. It

1228
01:25:29,840 --> 01:25:32,320
Speaker 1: wasn't with like getting hair cut some ship.

1229
01:25:33,800 --> 01:25:36,960
Speaker 3: So that I think Tray was right because you know

1230
01:25:37,120 --> 01:25:42,400
Speaker 3: mail Mail even though no disrespect, like like he's still

1231
01:25:42,400 --> 01:25:44,640
Speaker 3: going to studio fifty two sometimes.

1232
01:25:44,200 --> 01:25:49,559
Speaker 1: Man right before, Yes, yeah he.

1233
01:25:49,640 --> 01:25:52,479
Speaker 3: Was like still about on the studio fifty four whereas

1234
01:25:52,520 --> 01:25:53,920
Speaker 3: you look current now you.

1235
01:25:53,880 --> 01:25:58,320
Speaker 1: Know yeah, you know, well, yes it is that mel

1236
01:25:59,080 --> 01:26:04,240
Speaker 1: you know. I guess I guess for him. Uh when

1237
01:26:04,479 --> 01:26:06,960
Speaker 1: when you when you were the ship in a certain

1238
01:26:07,000 --> 01:26:16,560
Speaker 1: era and and you have ah a narcissistic uh personality,

1239
01:26:17,360 --> 01:26:21,759
Speaker 1: which he does, you always want to be the ship.

1240
01:26:21,880 --> 01:26:25,000
Speaker 1: I mean, even if you don't have a narcissistic personality,

1241
01:26:25,320 --> 01:26:28,040
Speaker 1: if you was ever the ship, or if you was

1242
01:26:28,120 --> 01:26:31,000
Speaker 1: never the ship, you always want to be the ship.

1243
01:26:31,800 --> 01:26:37,519
Speaker 1: So I guess I guess I would achuse me the

1244
01:26:37,560 --> 01:26:40,879
Speaker 1: way that you know. The reason why he still dresses

1245
01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:44,000
Speaker 1: the way that he used to is because he was

1246
01:26:44,040 --> 01:26:47,240
Speaker 1: the ship in that error. So I guess he always

1247
01:26:47,320 --> 01:26:49,760
Speaker 1: wants to be seen as the ship. So he's still

1248
01:26:49,840 --> 01:26:51,240
Speaker 1: dresses and he still looks.

1249
01:26:51,040 --> 01:26:55,720
Speaker 3: Like you know, yeah, and that's no disrespect. I don't

1250
01:26:55,720 --> 01:26:58,559
Speaker 3: want mail look douse. You know how he gets Yeah,

1251
01:26:59,840 --> 01:27:02,000
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying. So he's I don't want

1252
01:27:02,040 --> 01:27:04,439
Speaker 3: no smoke, but you need to change up, man to

1253
01:27:04,520 --> 01:27:07,599
Speaker 3: come on to twenty twenty four, my dude, basically right,

1254
01:27:09,040 --> 01:27:13,320
Speaker 3: But you know, so you're working with Drey, I can

1255
01:27:13,439 --> 01:27:15,720
Speaker 3: almost guess the records that you probably worked on. I'm

1256
01:27:15,720 --> 01:27:18,439
Speaker 3: pretty sure you worked on keep Their Heads Ringing.

1257
01:27:19,120 --> 01:27:23,360
Speaker 1: Well, no, actually, I didn't work on any records that

1258
01:27:23,960 --> 01:27:30,080
Speaker 1: that actually at least I just gave I downloaded. I've

1259
01:27:30,120 --> 01:27:35,080
Speaker 1: done a bunch of tracks that I did, uh at

1260
01:27:35,439 --> 01:27:40,000
Speaker 1: your rings, you know, at the studio, and he paid

1261
01:27:40,080 --> 01:27:43,040
Speaker 1: me for what what the key note the tracks I

1262
01:27:43,080 --> 01:27:50,040
Speaker 1: would don't know if he was done for. I'm really

1263
01:27:50,120 --> 01:27:53,200
Speaker 1: not paying attention like that, but he paid.

1264
01:27:54,439 --> 01:28:00,280
Speaker 3: Machine right right and machine you know, and before I know,

1265
01:28:00,320 --> 01:28:03,439
Speaker 3: it's gonna be some people in the comments trading made

1266
01:28:03,479 --> 01:28:05,280
Speaker 3: no beats. So I'm gonna tell you this a lot

1267
01:28:05,360 --> 01:28:09,000
Speaker 3: of times, and he had what do you do to him?

1268
01:28:09,040 --> 01:28:10,439
Speaker 3: They sound like some different stuff.

1269
01:28:11,479 --> 01:28:16,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it working with Dre, I did learn, you

1270
01:28:16,800 --> 01:28:22,040
Speaker 1: know that he's usually not the hands on actual producer

1271
01:28:22,200 --> 01:28:26,720
Speaker 1: of the beat. He's usually he's usually the one to

1272
01:28:26,840 --> 01:28:32,000
Speaker 1: mix the beat. You know, he'll he'll mix it and

1273
01:28:32,400 --> 01:28:34,920
Speaker 1: ever find the beat and you know, bring out the

1274
01:28:36,000 --> 01:28:39,360
Speaker 1: best in the beat. But as far as you know,

1275
01:28:39,840 --> 01:28:46,080
Speaker 1: actual producer or creator of the beat, he's usually not. Well,

1276
01:28:46,240 --> 01:28:49,280
Speaker 1: I don't know how long how long it's been since

1277
01:28:49,320 --> 01:28:53,560
Speaker 1: he's actually been hands on producer, but I would imagine

1278
01:28:53,840 --> 01:28:57,800
Speaker 1: it's probably been a long time. Yeah, he's a billionaire.

1279
01:28:57,960 --> 01:29:00,320
Speaker 1: He got a lot of fucking money, which means he

1280
01:29:00,439 --> 01:29:03,640
Speaker 1: got a lot of free time on his hands to

1281
01:29:03,840 --> 01:29:08,000
Speaker 1: do a whole bunch of shit that you know, a

1282
01:29:08,080 --> 01:29:10,960
Speaker 1: lot of us only dream of doing with all that

1283
01:29:11,120 --> 01:29:16,679
Speaker 1: fucking month ro and and that keeps you, that keeps

1284
01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:20,920
Speaker 1: you away from the studio. Which if you speak to

1285
01:29:21,000 --> 01:29:25,160
Speaker 1: any producer whoever worked with Dre or for Dre, he'll

1286
01:29:25,240 --> 01:29:31,400
Speaker 1: tell you dreas hardby for studio. And that was a

1287
01:29:31,479 --> 01:29:36,960
Speaker 1: problem Topp had with I was I was in Drey

1288
01:29:37,240 --> 01:29:41,360
Speaker 1: was the reason why I moved to La I lived

1289
01:29:41,400 --> 01:29:47,000
Speaker 1: there for three years. Uh, that waited for the opportunity

1290
01:29:47,120 --> 01:29:50,880
Speaker 1: to go in the studio with Dre. And I went

1291
01:29:51,040 --> 01:29:55,439
Speaker 1: in the studio with Dre two tides and three.

1292
01:29:58,479 --> 01:30:02,800
Speaker 3: Wow, you know in the thing is he actually paying people?

1293
01:30:03,080 --> 01:30:05,880
Speaker 3: Hey tell me, I was so so Tupac had smoked

1294
01:30:05,920 --> 01:30:08,760
Speaker 3: with Drey because of Drad's studio etiquette.

1295
01:30:09,160 --> 01:30:13,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, dream dreams work ethic and you know, wasn't wasn't

1296
01:30:13,960 --> 01:30:19,120
Speaker 1: satisfactory to he out problems with how seldom grade would

1297
01:30:19,160 --> 01:30:21,519
Speaker 1: be in the studio on pop was a machine. So

1298
01:30:21,720 --> 01:30:27,400
Speaker 1: he you know, he turned them out exactly that he

1299
01:30:27,479 --> 01:30:29,719
Speaker 1: wanted to be in there with the weak dog until

1300
01:30:29,760 --> 01:30:34,280
Speaker 1: he found out that Dre wasn't really ansalt producer that

1301
01:30:34,439 --> 01:30:41,160
Speaker 1: he thought he yet was vocal and his displeasure, he

1302
01:30:41,600 --> 01:30:42,799
Speaker 1: shot Dre and the leg.

1303
01:30:44,720 --> 01:30:45,840
Speaker 3: Park shot d in the leg.

1304
01:30:46,439 --> 01:30:51,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, showed the back Pop fifty thousand that he wouldn't

1305
01:30:51,360 --> 01:30:54,080
Speaker 1: shoot Drake and Pop shining in the left.

1306
01:30:55,600 --> 01:30:56,479
Speaker 3: Are you serious?

1307
01:30:57,120 --> 01:30:58,240
Speaker 1: That asks yep?

1308
01:30:58,760 --> 01:31:01,240
Speaker 3: Wow, man so so so Fock is just on it

1309
01:31:01,439 --> 01:31:03,679
Speaker 3: like that. So he really so when he was talking

1310
01:31:03,800 --> 01:31:07,760
Speaker 3: all that stuff from the records, he really meant business. Pop.

1311
01:31:08,439 --> 01:31:11,240
Speaker 1: It was a different kind of dude where you know,

1312
01:31:12,400 --> 01:31:16,479
Speaker 1: I only met him one time and we ones had

1313
01:31:17,720 --> 01:31:22,760
Speaker 1: fallen out. We were Jack the Rapper in Atlanta and

1314
01:31:23,160 --> 01:31:26,400
Speaker 1: we were we were staying at the Omni Hotel and

1315
01:31:26,640 --> 01:31:29,639
Speaker 1: he happened to be staying on the floor right beneath

1316
01:31:29,680 --> 01:31:32,960
Speaker 1: the floor I was staying the Lord, and so I

1317
01:31:33,040 --> 01:31:37,080
Speaker 1: got on the elevator and to go downstairs to the

1318
01:31:37,160 --> 01:31:40,840
Speaker 1: lobby where all the ship was going on, and elevated

1319
01:31:40,920 --> 01:31:43,920
Speaker 1: doors opened up opened up on the next floor and

1320
01:31:44,040 --> 01:31:48,200
Speaker 1: Tupaca and It's entarage were standing in for the elevator,

1321
01:31:48,880 --> 01:31:53,000
Speaker 1: and they were signaling to me to step off of

1322
01:31:53,160 --> 01:31:57,519
Speaker 1: the elevator to allow Tupac and his people to get

1323
01:31:57,600 --> 01:32:02,080
Speaker 1: on the elevator. So I said so, but they didn't

1324
01:32:02,120 --> 01:32:06,960
Speaker 1: know who I was or anything. So I said, oh shit, Tupac,

1325
01:32:07,400 --> 01:32:09,920
Speaker 1: I said, Yo, what's up matter? You know, I'm ra

1326
01:32:10,040 --> 01:32:12,880
Speaker 1: Haen from Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, but I'm

1327
01:32:12,920 --> 01:32:15,280
Speaker 1: not getting off at this snare, so all of y'all

1328
01:32:15,320 --> 01:32:18,880
Speaker 1: could get on the elevated too. You know, it was

1329
01:32:18,960 --> 01:32:22,080
Speaker 1: signaling for me to come off elevated because part was

1330
01:32:22,120 --> 01:32:25,480
Speaker 1: about to get on. I guess there was his security

1331
01:32:25,600 --> 01:32:28,519
Speaker 1: or what it. And I was like, Yo, Rahenes from

1332
01:32:28,560 --> 01:32:32,760
Speaker 1: Grandmaster Flashing, and we all ride down stairs together because

1333
01:32:32,800 --> 01:32:40,040
Speaker 1: I'm going downstairs. So he had a plastic cup A

1334
01:32:40,200 --> 01:32:43,080
Speaker 1: field would hit us see in his end, and I

1335
01:32:43,120 --> 01:32:45,720
Speaker 1: could smell it immediately, and I could tell that he

1336
01:32:45,880 --> 01:32:50,480
Speaker 1: was slightly nebriated, and so he had a little attitude

1337
01:32:50,600 --> 01:32:53,560
Speaker 1: because I didn't want to step off the elephant. So

1338
01:32:54,800 --> 01:32:58,479
Speaker 1: but I ignored it, and and I said to him, yo,

1339
01:32:58,600 --> 01:33:00,360
Speaker 1: mant it. I said, I'm a fair out of your

1340
01:33:00,439 --> 01:33:02,599
Speaker 1: music and all that, and I just wanted to shake

1341
01:33:02,640 --> 01:33:07,680
Speaker 1: your hand so he didn't shake my hand, and so

1342
01:33:08,680 --> 01:33:13,200
Speaker 1: then I said to him, mom, yo, I seen I

1343
01:33:13,320 --> 01:33:16,600
Speaker 1: seen shot G down stairs in the lobby talking with

1344
01:33:17,080 --> 01:33:20,880
Speaker 1: Dolly mal and Scalpo for Mark Brook. I said, did

1345
01:33:20,920 --> 01:33:23,840
Speaker 1: you did you happen to see them? And so he

1346
01:33:23,960 --> 01:33:28,439
Speaker 1: said to me, uh uh, you know, a real fucking

1347
01:33:28,560 --> 01:33:31,640
Speaker 1: tied of people asking you know where the fuck this

1348
01:33:31,800 --> 01:33:34,400
Speaker 1: one it is? Where fuck that one? And I don't

1349
01:33:34,439 --> 01:33:38,120
Speaker 1: need to know where fuck tupac? And some time, so

1350
01:33:38,240 --> 01:33:42,160
Speaker 1: I said, oh, all right, don't pout, that's what's up.

1351
01:33:43,000 --> 01:33:44,840
Speaker 1: And then I just let him rot. And then when

1352
01:33:44,840 --> 01:33:48,840
Speaker 1: we got when we got to the lobby elevated door open,

1353
01:33:49,240 --> 01:33:52,400
Speaker 1: he ice grilled me, ice grill him back, and then

1354
01:33:52,439 --> 01:33:58,400
Speaker 1: he walked off elevated with his way. And the irony

1355
01:33:58,479 --> 01:34:02,679
Speaker 1: of that that interaction with him is at the time,

1356
01:34:03,320 --> 01:34:09,840
Speaker 1: I wasn't a fan, and it wasn't until right right

1357
01:34:10,040 --> 01:34:14,240
Speaker 1: before he passed away that I became a friend. And

1358
01:34:14,360 --> 01:34:18,120
Speaker 1: now I'm like a tremendous one, like I love.

1359
01:34:19,439 --> 01:34:22,360
Speaker 3: He's one of the most amazing artists of our time.

1360
01:34:23,360 --> 01:34:23,880
Speaker 3: That's my home.

1361
01:34:25,439 --> 01:34:26,280
Speaker 1: He's my favorite.

1362
01:34:26,360 --> 01:34:30,360
Speaker 3: And then DMX, Yeah, I think you know what it's

1363
01:34:30,439 --> 01:34:32,800
Speaker 3: funny that you say DM mixed too, because both of

1364
01:34:32,880 --> 01:34:37,240
Speaker 3: those dudes probably conveyed emotion to anybody in the history

1365
01:34:37,360 --> 01:34:39,000
Speaker 3: hip hop, you know. And that was the name that

1366
01:34:39,120 --> 01:34:43,439
Speaker 3: Gottlem And you know, Biggie he was a real lyrical dude.

1367
01:34:43,640 --> 01:34:46,920
Speaker 3: Biggie Man, Oh my god, he was ridiculous, right, Yes,

1368
01:34:47,040 --> 01:34:51,080
Speaker 3: But motion E didn't the vote the emotion Tupac did. Man,

1369
01:34:51,160 --> 01:34:53,080
Speaker 3: Tupac make you either want to go out and hurt

1370
01:34:53,160 --> 01:34:56,400
Speaker 3: somebody or go on and his be the best husband

1371
01:34:56,439 --> 01:34:58,200
Speaker 3: and the best man in the world, you know what

1372
01:34:58,240 --> 01:34:58,519
Speaker 3: I mean?

1373
01:34:59,200 --> 01:35:03,799
Speaker 6: Him and in DMX do that yes, yeah, I agree?

1374
01:35:04,200 --> 01:35:09,080
Speaker 6: Or yeah there beating on somebody or have you all?

1375
01:35:09,160 --> 01:35:13,240
Speaker 6: You know what I'm saying, being the leader in your community, right.

1376
01:35:13,240 --> 01:35:15,880
Speaker 6: I think those they were both as geminis.

1377
01:35:16,000 --> 01:35:19,160
Speaker 3: Man, So I think that he's just and I definitely

1378
01:35:19,200 --> 01:35:22,840
Speaker 3: think I definitely think, Man, we lost him a little

1379
01:35:22,880 --> 01:35:26,120
Speaker 3: to something man facts, and I hate to get into

1380
01:35:26,200 --> 01:35:30,639
Speaker 3: the just whole conspiracy stuff. Man. It seems like anyone

1381
01:35:30,760 --> 01:35:33,320
Speaker 3: that has a certain amount of influence and power, man,

1382
01:35:33,760 --> 01:35:36,120
Speaker 3: they always wind up leaving too early.

1383
01:35:36,240 --> 01:35:36,400
Speaker 2: Man.

1384
01:35:36,800 --> 01:35:39,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, they see as a danger. You're going threat to

1385
01:35:39,640 --> 01:35:42,680
Speaker 1: the power structure, because you know, if you have the

1386
01:35:42,840 --> 01:35:47,880
Speaker 1: ability to say words that resonate with people to the

1387
01:35:47,960 --> 01:35:52,200
Speaker 1: point where they take action, where your words can cause

1388
01:35:52,320 --> 01:35:55,439
Speaker 1: people to take action, like that's some ship, that's some

1389
01:35:55,600 --> 01:35:59,439
Speaker 1: powerful shit. You are you will absorit, you motherfucker, and

1390
01:36:00,240 --> 01:36:04,360
Speaker 1: scared of you because you're a threat to them, especially

1391
01:36:04,520 --> 01:36:09,519
Speaker 1: if if you have if you're awake, you know, if

1392
01:36:09,560 --> 01:36:12,880
Speaker 1: you so called awake, and and you know you ain't

1393
01:36:13,840 --> 01:36:19,240
Speaker 1: you ain't, no, you ain't. No house snicker, they feel

1394
01:36:19,320 --> 01:36:19,679
Speaker 1: that ship.

1395
01:36:21,439 --> 01:36:26,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, ma'am, We're gonna have to do this again, man,

1396
01:36:26,720 --> 01:36:30,599
Speaker 3: because I can easily go another hour with you. Man,

1397
01:36:30,720 --> 01:36:33,000
Speaker 3: I really appreciate you coming on. Man, where can the

1398
01:36:33,040 --> 01:36:33,920
Speaker 3: people get at you at?

1399
01:36:34,720 --> 01:36:34,920
Speaker 4: Oh?

1400
01:36:35,160 --> 01:36:37,240
Speaker 1: Man, I'm going to uh, you can get at me

1401
01:36:37,320 --> 01:36:43,800
Speaker 1: on Instagram rahi r h. I em official and that

1402
01:36:43,840 --> 01:36:45,680
Speaker 1: will pretty much connect you to all the rest of

1403
01:36:45,800 --> 01:36:46,799
Speaker 1: us social media.

1404
01:36:48,840 --> 01:36:51,560
Speaker 3: For sure, for sure, for sure. Man, you dropped a

1405
01:36:51,600 --> 01:36:53,920
Speaker 3: lot of you bropped a lot of heavy, real stuff

1406
01:36:53,960 --> 01:36:55,519
Speaker 3: on this tonight. Man. I know it's gonna be some

1407
01:36:55,600 --> 01:36:58,840
Speaker 3: people blowing the comments. Well. That concludes another episode of

1408
01:36:58,880 --> 01:37:02,240
Speaker 3: Against the Chronicles Power. Be sure to download the iHeart

1409
01:37:02,280 --> 01:37:04,840
Speaker 3: app and subscribe to the Gainst the Chronicles podcasts for

1410
01:37:04,920 --> 01:37:07,679
Speaker 3: Apple users. Find that Purple Mic on the front screen

1411
01:37:07,760 --> 01:37:09,960
Speaker 3: of your phone. Subscribe to the show, leaf of comment

1412
01:37:10,040 --> 01:37:13,120
Speaker 3: and a rating. Executive producers for The Gangster Chronicles of

1413
01:37:13,240 --> 01:37:16,840
Speaker 3: Norm Steel James McDonald and Aaron m c a. Taylor.

1414
01:37:17,160 --> 01:37:20,559
Speaker 3: Our visual media director is Brian Watt. Shows audio editor

1415
01:37:20,640 --> 01:37:23,360
Speaker 3: is Taylor Hayes. The Gangster Chronicles. Here's a production of

1416
01:37:23,400 --> 01:37:27,000
Speaker 3: The Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartMedia. Any questions to

1417
01:37:27,080 --> 01:37:30,200
Speaker 3: comments hit us up Against the Chronicles Podcasts at gmail

1418
01:37:30,280 --> 01:37:33,280
Speaker 3: dot com. Peace be safe out there.