WEBVTT - The Human Condition with Big Citrus 0:00:00.760 --> 0:00:03.120 Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where I'm finally 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:05.840 heading home after a trip that's served up a haboob 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:09.960 in Arizona and an earthquake in La Chicago. Cold's actually 0:00:09.960 --> 0:00:13.040 looking pretty good at this point. It's Tuesday, March fourth, 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:15.400 and on today's show, Big Citrus is sitting down to 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:18.680 discuss one of the toughest tasks for diehard sports fans. 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:21.160 How do we reconcile the love of a player's game 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:24.240 on the court with controversy off of it? How do 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:27.160 we react when allegation surface? And how should we respond 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:29.920 when athletes we admire for their on field heroics do 0:00:30.040 --> 0:00:31.800 shitty things away from their sport. 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:33.040 We'll get into it. 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:36.199 Plus, Nashville got its big finale backlash leads to a 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:40.559 back out, and in one conference it's love basketball and 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:51.960 coin tosses. It's all coming up right after this Welcome 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:56.320 back Slices. Here's what you need to know today. Athletes 0:00:56.400 --> 0:00:59.680 Unlimited Basketball wrapped over the weekend with Matty Siegrist winning 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:03.400 the seas In four Championship title. Secrist, in her AU debut, 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:05.959 finished the four week season with the league record seven 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:09.960 fifty two points, defeating runner up Odyssey Simms by four 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:13.399 hundred and fifty seven points with record attendance and community 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:16.840 engagement in Nashville. Athletes Unlimited announced that they will be 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:20.280 returning on a multi year deal for AU Pro Basketball 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:22.560 to be in Music City in twenty twenty six and 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:27.560 beyond to Pro hoops. WNBA expansion team Toronto Tempo announced 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:29.920 on Monday the team has a new member of its 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:34.240 ownership group and it's a name you might recognize, Serena Williams. 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:37.080 It's the second women's pro team Williams has invested in. 0:01:37.319 --> 0:01:40.200 She and her husband Alexis o'hannion also became co owners 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:43.560 of the NWSL's Angels City FC in twenty twenty two. 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:46.760 Pera Toronto press release, Williams will also play an active 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:50.200 role in helping design jerseys and in creating quote unique 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:54.680 merchandise collaborations end quote. We are excited the rollout all 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:58.200 the visuals for her joining the team. So good to 0:01:58.320 --> 0:02:00.840 soccer where Naomi Germa made her day viue for Chelsea 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:03.720 over the weekend and fifty nine minutes into the contest 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:05.600 against Brighton, she suffered an injury. 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:07.240 Germa had to be subbed out. 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:09.400 It's not yet clear how serious the injury is, but 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:10.520 you hate to see it. 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:12.840 The match ended in a two to two draw. 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:14.760 Will keep you updated, and we're sending good vibes to 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:16.720 Naomi and hoping she gets back on the pitch soon. 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:18.320 More soccer. 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:20.960 We told you last month about BFC's decision to hire 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:24.760 Graham Abel as the club's director of domestic scouting, despite 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:28.040 an investigation from The Oregonian into his tenure as head 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:30.360 coach of the UFO in which more than a dozen 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:33.480 players alleged that he was verbally abusive. At the time 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:36.760 that that investigation was published, Abel denied the allegations to 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:37.519 The Oregonian. 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:38.320 Well. 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:40.680 Just a week after his hiring was announced, and with 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:43.960 BFC receiving lots of backlash for the move, Abel has 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:47.000 agreed to resign from his post. In a statement to ESPN, 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:49.560 Abel said, in part, quote me joining the club has 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:51.960 become a distraction, which is not fair to the team 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:54.800 and players, so I've made the difficult decision to resign. 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:57.520 The team should be focusing on what's most important, playing 0:02:57.560 --> 0:03:00.799 the game they love and competing for a championship end quote. 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:04.120 ESPN also reported that BFC was aware of the allegations 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:07.440 against Abel prior to hiring him, and that the league 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:10.680 also signed off on his appointment. So while Abele is out, 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:13.519 lots of questions still about the hiring practices that led 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:17.359 to this in the first place. To College Hoops, USC 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:20.040 clinched the Big Ten regular season title over the weekend, 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:23.160 and Juju Watkins continued to make her case for Player 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:26.160 of the Year honors. The sophomore star recorded thirty points, 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:29.720 five assists, two steals, and three blocks in USC's second 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:32.920 win of the season over crosstown rival UCLA. And get this, 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:35.680 Juju Watkins has now scored thirty plus points in her 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:38.960 last four games against UCLA. The win paid off in 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:42.240 the EP rankings two, which were updated on Monday. USC 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:45.080 and UCLA flip flopped, with USC now at number two 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:49.680 and UCLA at number four in SEC hoops, unranked ol 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:52.520 misvisited at number seven LSU on Sunday and gave us 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:54.240 another upset to buzz about. 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:55.360 Coach yo Lett. 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:58.200 Mcew and squad surged back from a thirteen point halftime deficit. 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:01.040 Thanks to a thirty two point thirty quarter and some 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:04.040 stifling defense, they pulled out the upset eighty five seventy 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:07.360 seven Colorado transferred to Mia Sadler paced Ole Miss with 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:10.920 nineteen points and five steals. Starred Jacobs and KK Dean's 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:15.120 added eighteen and seventeen points, respectively, also got a shout out. 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:18.920 LSU's Anissa Morrow twenty eight points and twelve rebounds and 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:21.960 her one hundredth career double double. She's now one of 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:24.159 only two players at NC double A D one history 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:27.240 to post that. Many also want to note that LSU 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:30.000 was without Flaje Johnson for the first time this season. 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:31.080 Due to shin inflammation. 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:33.920 Coach Kim Moulki told Reporter's post game that Flage won't 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:35.880 play in the SEC tournament in hopes that she'll be 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:37.839 ready to go for the NC Double A tournament, which 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:39.000 begins March nineteenth. 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:42.560 We're setting Eland bibes your way, Flage a little more. 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:46.040 SEC Hoops Conference tournament starts tomorrow and don S Day. 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:48.919 South Carolina Game Cocks are the top seed thanks to 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:51.560 hold on, let me make sure I'm reading this right. 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:55.719 A coin flip, Yeah, a coin flip. South Carolina and 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:59.080 Texas both finished fifteen to one in the SEC and 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:01.040 were named Core Bigler's season champs. 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:04.080 But to determine tourney seating, one team had. 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:06.800 To prevail, and the first two tiebreaker rules couldn't determine 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:09.599 a winner. So when teams have the same record, advantage 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:11.320 goes to the group with a better record in their 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:13.440 head to head matchups, and then did the team with 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:16.080 a better win loss record against other teams in the league. 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:18.800 While the Longhorns and the game Cocks split the head 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:21.760 to head in the regular season, and then they lost 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:22.680 to nobody else. 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:24.000 So it's bizarre. 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:27.120 But the last option was to have Conference Commissioner Greg 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:30.000 Sankie flip a coin. Dot Staley wasn't a fan of 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:32.880 the move until the game Cox won, when she said, quote, 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:36.040 I feel a little better about it now end quote. 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:37.040 More college hoops. 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:40.520 Paige Becker's was inducted into Yukon's Huskies of Honor during 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:43.720 the program's Senior Day celebration this weekend, and a banner 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:46.680 was unveiled to honor her after the team's game against Marquette, 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:48.679 which Yukon won ninety two fifty seven. 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:52.159 Take it quick. Listen how she started her speech, thank 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:52.800 you guys for. 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:56.359 Coming out, thank you for an amazing four or five 0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:57.280 six years? 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:03.760 Did she say six years? Six? Interesting? 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:07.080 Just a reminder, Beckers is currently in her fifth year 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:10.159 at Yukon, and while all signs indicate she's headed for 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:13.680 the WNBA draft next month, she does technically have an 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:15.799 option to return for a sixth year if she wants, 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:19.320 given that she read shirted a season due to injury. Finally, 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:22.240 USA Today has announced its honorees for twenty twenty five 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:24.320 Women of the Year, and three women in sports were 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:27.600 named national winners. President of the Women's Sports Foundation and 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:31.640 Paralympic athletes Scout Bassett, rugby superstar Alon Omar and reigning 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:34.360 WNBA champ with the New York Liberty John Quell Jones, 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:38.320 also Kansas native and Texas Tech softball star Nijerie Kennedy, 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:42.520 Connecticut Sun president Jennifer Rozzotti, and Pacers Sports and Entertainment 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:45.320 CEO Mel Rains, who's the top exec for the Pacers 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:47.680 and the Fever, were each named the Women of the 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:52.200 Year for their respective states Kansas, Connecticut, and Indiana. Congrats 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:55.960 to all six winners, but also, seriously, though, what is 0:06:55.960 --> 0:06:58.040 with all these outlets naming women of the Year before 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:00.320 we're even a quarter into twenty twenty five. 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:05.279 It's confusing. We got to take a quick break. 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:07.560 When we come back, it's time for Big Citrus to 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:10.920 reconvene and just to quick heads up during our upcoming conversation, 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:14.200 I do mention descriptions of alleged sexual assault. It's later 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:15.840 in the discussion, but want to give you heads up 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:17.280 in case it's something you want to fast. 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:26.280 Forward through welcome back slices. 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:30.040 We felt like nows time for kind of a tough conversation, 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:32.960 but a necessary one because we're nearing the NCAA Basketball Tournament. 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:35.920 We're super excited about all the parody at the highest level. 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:40.640 What is expected to be a thrilling, chaotic, insane march madness, 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:43.560 chalk full of superstars, chalk full of teams that could 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.360 beat the next team. But we're also about to face 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:48.880 sort of head on one of the ultimate conflicts for 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:51.440 a lot of sports fans. How do you reconcile the 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:55.120 love of a player's game on the court with controversy 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:57.600 off of it. This is something we've talked about and 0:07:57.640 --> 0:07:59.920 touched on briefly a couple of times throughout the season. 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:03.160 But just to remind you, this year's tournament will feature 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:06.760 Notre Dame star Hannah Hidalgo, who notably shared an anti 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:11.040 gay post on social media. We'll see TCUs Sedona Prince, 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:14.600 who's facing accusations from ex partners of both physical and 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:18.600 verbal abuse, and South Carolina had Ashland Watkins return mid 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:21.600 season after first degree assault and battery and kidnapping charges 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:24.040 were dismissed after she did a pre trial intervention. 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:25.679 Now Watkins is going to miss the tournament. 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:27.520 She suffered an ACL tear, But there are still some 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:31.080 questions that folks had about Don Staley and the team welcoming. 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:31.760 Her back after all of that. 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:34.640 So we're thinking about that all season long, and then 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:37.280 we get a question from Slice Amanda Vaalo that sort 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:40.240 of brings it back up to the forefront, which is, 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:44.120 in her words, the human condition. She writes, Kobe Bryant 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:47.079 is always included in goat conversations and idolized in the 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:49.880 growth of women's sports. He's also a person who admittedly 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:52.400 cheated on his wife and very possibly raped a nineteen 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:54.520 year old. I can't help but think about this young 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:57.920 woman every time I hear another WNBA star Juel Lloyd 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:00.920 Sabrina Aliah Edwards pay tribute to him as their greatest 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:03.920 influence and mentor, much like they always note the other 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:06.560 lives that were lost when the helicopter went down. Shouldn't 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:09.200 his legacy include that he harmed women in a lifelong, 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:11.839 scarring way. The only journalists I've ever heard speak to 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:14.520 this is Sarah. Could you please say more? How did 0:09:14.559 --> 0:09:16.800 those of us who love women's sport hold both Kobe 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:18.960 did some great things for women and the black Mama 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:22.480 mentality really hurt and preyed upon them. Amanda, This is 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:25.440 a great question, and it's a conversation that I've had 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:29.000 for years because of how often I've tried to speak 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:33.560 to issues of domestic violence, sexual assault, homophobia, you know, 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:37.040 issues that intersect with sports so often and are very 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:40.080 hard to talk about and are very hard to reconcile 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:42.520 with the players that we love, particularly if they come 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:44.440 up after we've been watching them for years and have 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:48.680 already made very definitive fandom decisions about them. So I 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:51.080 wanted to bring big citriest together to talk about this 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:54.240 and see if the way that we personally handle it 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:57.160 is useful or helpful to anybody else in there trying to, 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:00.079 you know, hold both things and figure it out. We 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:02.920 can maybe talk about the Kobe thing later, but I 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:06.160 think it's useful to see if either of you have 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:11.120 very specific ways you process this stuff, or if it's 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:12.599 a case by case spaces. 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:17.920 Honestly, Sarah like the underlying response for me, I don't 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:20.120 have like a here's your step by step how to 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:21.800 parts out whether or not you can be a fan 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:23.000 or not be a fan, Like, I don't have a 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:26.319 checklist for anybody. But one thing I will say is, 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:28.960 and I've had to change this over time, right, so 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:33.120 some context, I've grown up watching women's basketball, specifically my 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:34.920 entire life, you know what I mean. Like, I'm a 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:40.199 fan fan, capital fan fan. But I got a job 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:44.360 beat writing for the Washington Mystics, not for the team, 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:46.439 but for a blog that covered the team, and very 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:49.280 quickly I had to flip that switch in my brain 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:52.720 to be like, oh, these are whole people, and that's 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:55.000 the issue I think that's underlying here. I think a 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:57.719 lot of folks, a lot of sports fans, a lot 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:00.920 of fans of celebrities and entertainment generally, we have a 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:04.120 tendency to put people on this pedestal, right, and we 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:06.880 never really talk about the whole person. So when we 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:10.040 have controversy come up or allegations come up, it's like, uh, 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:11.560 it throws us into a tizzy. 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:13.360 So that's where to me it all starts. 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:15.920 It's like, first and foremost, we have to get out 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:22.160 of the habit of treating athletes, entertainers, musicians as like 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:24.160 heroes and what have you. 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:27.120 The myth makes is what does it It's like because 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:30.760 they're great at this thing, they must be a great person, 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:32.959 which when those things are not correlated at all. 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:36.360 No, And the better we can be generally speaking about 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:41.000 understanding that, the less I think this would shock people's systems, 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:43.680 but also I think the more we could openly talk 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:47.480 about stuff like with Sedona for example, I hadn't heard 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:51.240 Jack squat about what was going on with her in 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:55.360 big media publications. I had seen a lot on TikTok 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:59.000 I you know, was it verified confirmed? Not necessarily, but 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:01.640 you know, those rumors were swirling. And when all of 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:03.920 this came out and I can't remember who wrote the 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:05.520 story that we just talked about. 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:07.960 Molly Hensley Clancy of the Washington Post. 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:09.520 Thank you for that that we just talked about recently 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:12.400 on the show. Molly mentioned, Yeah, people have been talking 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:14.440 about this for months, but nobody had talked about it 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:18.000 on ESPN or you know, wherever else you get your 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:22.480 wide ranging vetted sports Yeah, you're vetted sports news, and 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:26.360 so you know, it just has this weird vibe to 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:28.480 it where some people are like, well, we know what's happening, 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:31.080 but y'all are still continuing to celebrate, you know, this 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:33.160 young lady, and some people turn that into well we 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:35.280 shouldn't be talking about her at all. It's like you 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:37.120 have to talk about her because she's one of the 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:38.680 best players. 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:39.040 In the country. 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:41.920 But the more we can understand people as whole people, 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:44.320 I think, the easier it becomes to have real conversations 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:46.160 about the fuck them should they do? 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:48.040 I agree, and I want to quickly just point to 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:50.080 something you said, like, I think what's very difficult as 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:53.960 journalists is to understand that there can be TikTok's made 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:59.240 and tweet scent that are saying with surety that they 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:02.079 know what happened, and if you actually were to follow 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:03.240 up with them, they would say, well, this is what 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:05.280 I heard from this person who heard it from this person, 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:09.000 And when you are trying to operate in a journalistic sense, 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:11.840 you can't go off of that. And also, in fairness 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:15.960 to all people, understanding how rumors can spread online, understanding 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:17.840 how much people who don't have skin in the game 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:19.880 and aren't working in the. 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:22.959 Business can say things and not care whether they're true 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:23.240 or not. 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:26.640 There's no accountability for spreading a rumor if you're not 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:29.440 someone in the biz, and so I think you have 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:33.400 to try to be aware of accusations and consider it 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:35.400 of them when you're talking about these athletes and having 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:41.600 these conversations, but also to presume facts based on things 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:43.400 like tiktoks, which is where a lot of these people 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:45.199 say like, oh, it's been out there, everybody should know 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:47.559 this by now. Is a very slippery slope and it's 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:49.280 very unfair to a lot of people who might get 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:49.880 caught up in it. 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:52.280 And to that end, though, this is why I think 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:55.079 we need We always say we need more women's sports media, 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:59.239 but this is why we need not less vetted sources necessarily, 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:03.320 but more shows that get into okay, but what is 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:06.880 the pulse of what's happening in this space like it. 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:09.600 That's a big part of the gap in women's sports media. 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:10.480 I think, well, and. 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:13.040 Alex you always talk about the gap in just people 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:15.120 who are covering these things, who are getting paid to 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:18.120 do the work and be there every day and actually 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:19.920 be able to report on this correctly. 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:22.560 Yeah. When I did account last year of the number 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:25.320 of reporters who cover women's sports as their full time job, 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:26.960 I couldn't get past fifteen. 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:29.200 That's all of North America. I had to include a 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:30.440 couple of Canadians in there. 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:33.400 I think the number's probably gone up by you know, two, 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:37.080 a handful. So for me, one of the things that 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:39.200 I often come back to here is the role of 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:41.200 the media, and I think one of the things that 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:44.080 doesn't often get talked about is the inherent conflicts of 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:47.720 interests that occur in sports broadcasting. It's a field unlike 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:51.600 any other in that you have these companies NBC and 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:54.200 Fox and ESPN and Amazon and all the rest of 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:58.600 them that are paying leagues millions, billions of dollars in 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:01.800 order to broadcast a product, a product that is entertainment 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:04.360 that they are selling ads off of. So then to 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:09.560 expect those broadcasters to tell well rounded stories about problematic 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:13.680 people isn't always happening. I think the other part of 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:15.800 it that often comes up in sports, and I've been 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:18.080 a part of a lot of conversations where there's a 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:20.360 problematic athlete, there's something that came up. 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:22.160 Sometimes it's even about doping. 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:25.880 Right like that is something that literally impacts the competition field, 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:29.560 and oftentimes though it's handled in the pregame show and 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:32.080 then all the people tune in half an hour later 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:35.080 to watch the actual sport and it never gets mentioned again. 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:39.480 So I struggle with how to integrate that a little 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:41.880 bit more sometimes so that we are getting a more 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:44.760 well rounded idea of who the person is during the 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:47.520 supporting event itself. And I don't know how to reconcile that, 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:50.160 but I think that the difference in media space and 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:53.560 what those media outlets are providing in terms of information 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:56.920 versus journalism versus entertainment plays a really big role here. 0:15:57.320 --> 0:15:59.960 Yeah, I think it plays a huge role in educating people. 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:04.680 And I had those conversations internally, especially at places like ESPN, 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:06.560 where you do know that the millions of people watching 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:08.320 the game are going to hear you praise that person 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:10.440 over and over and if you don't use the correct 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:14.080 language the one time you mention that they have accusations 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:16.760 have been said, you say made a mistake about someone 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:20.080 who punched a woman or had an incident, instead of 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:23.360 using specific language. You're making very clear that you prioritize 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:26.680 the mythologizing of them as an athlete over the realities 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:31.280 of their situation. But all that being said, when we 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:33.840 do find out these things, when it does get to 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:38.480 us via established media or via social media, and enough 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:41.480 folks talking about it or the athlete's own actions, like 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:43.920 in the case of Hanna Hidalgo posting that stuff, we 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:45.840 then as fans have a decision to make. 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:50.480 And there are a lot of fans who just want 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:53.480 to watch the game. They consider it an escape for them. 0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:57.000 I think most of those fans, but not all, have 0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:59.520 a bit of a privilege of being able to separate 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:03.320 the issues that play many parts of society from. 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:03.760 The sports role. 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:07.480 But if you are, for instance, a woman, and you 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:10.320 are being asked repeatedly to ignore that a man has 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:14.240 been credibly accused multiple times of domestic violence or sexual 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:16.200 abuse but you should still root for them. 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:17.400 That's a little more difficult. 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:19.400 If you are a queer person and you're being asked 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:21.879 to ignore that someone is homophobic, If you are a 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:24.000 person of color and you're being asked to ignore someone's 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:27.280 racist remarks, all of these things are much more personal 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:30.000 to certain fans than maybe other fans who are like 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:31.960 I just want to escape, right. 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:35.440 So I can give you a specific example. 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:38.040 This really solidified it for me because in the moment 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:41.040 I felt sort of hypocritical. I had already had to 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:44.800 face Patrick Kane on the Chicago Blackhawks, my hockey team, 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:47.960 being accused of sexual assault. I had already had to 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:51.520 face Eraaldus Chapman being signed by my favorite baseball team, 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:53.520 the Chicago Cubs and being a part of their World 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:58.119 Series run after getting suspended for domestic violence and shooting 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:01.280 a gun around his partner. I had already had these 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:03.920 people that were in my sports sphere that I was 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:06.160 a fan of or at least a fan of the team, 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:07.960 and had to make a decision of I don't want 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:10.000 to root for that person anymore, while I still want 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:10.840 to root for that team. 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:13.679 But then this weird instance happened with Sewn. 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:16.520 White, the snowboarder, where I was watching the Olympics like 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:21.840 live and saw him have this great finish and tweeted 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:24.680 like that's so exciting his last Olympics, like so cool 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:27.439 to see him get it done, And people started sliding 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:29.399 into my mentions with hey, did you see about this, 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:31.600 like the former drummer of his band had filed a 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:37.480 suit alleging sexual harassment, sexual assault, sexually explicit messages like 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:41.520 using his power and position within the band to make 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:45.160 her life awful, and so in that moment, I could 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:48.280 either get defensive and start to push back on oh, 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:49.600 I don't know about that, or. 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:50.680 Well is it proven? 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:54.640 Or I could say this, this is a line I've 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:58.280 made for myself personally, and when someone crosses it, I 0:18:58.320 --> 0:18:59.760 can decide that I don't want to root for them 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:02.800 any more. That's not to say guilty before being proven so, 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:05.040 but it is to say, I'm gonna step back from 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:08.480 this fandom and go read these accusations and be thoughtful 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:10.919 about how I feel about them. And I think for 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:13.160 me that was a turning point, mainly because I had 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:16.320 to reconcile, like, if I'm going to be open about 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:19.040 writing these stories and covering athletes like you know, ray 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:21.639 Rice and other athletes that I've covered in the past, 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:24.919 I can't then make different rules for my teams and 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:26.080