WEBVTT - Obstacles to Menendez Brothers Release From Prison 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:08.000 This is Bloomberg Law with June Brusso from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:10.400 --> 0:00:13.480 I'm gonna shake up the bag, draw the lottery tickets, 0:00:13.520 --> 0:00:16.680 and you'll be called up accordingly. We're gonna line you 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:19.160 up that's right where this gentleman is standing, and we'll 0:00:19.160 --> 0:00:21.479 bring you into the building. There was a lottery to 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:24.480 get the hottest ticket in town entry to the Los 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:29.240 Angeles Courthouse for the Menendez brothers' first court appearance in decades. 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:32.720 People lined up more than five hours before the hearing 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:36.400 to get one of the coveted sixteen seats available to 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:37.000 the public. 0:00:37.320 --> 0:00:42.320 Okay, last four numbers of six nine three two. 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:45.560 Eric and Lyle Menendez have been in prison since nineteen 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:49.040 eighty nine, sentenced to life without parole for the murders 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:52.360 of their parents. The case captivated the country in the 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:56.640 nineteen nineties and is doing so once again thanks to 0:00:56.720 --> 0:01:00.360 the recent releases of the Netflix dram Up Monsters and 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:04.640 a documentary Lost the discovery of new evidence which could 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:08.720 support Eric's claims that he was sexually abused by his father. 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:13.600 Technical problems prevented the brothers from appearing virtually from prison, 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:16.959 and the hearing lasted only an hour because The judge 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:20.959 said he needed time to review seventeen boxes of evidence 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:24.679 and also wanted to give the newly elected DA time 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:27.240 to weigh in on the case, but he did allow 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:30.840 the brothers two elderly aunts to take the stand, and 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:34.360 they made an impassioned plea for their nephews for lease. 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:39.319 Ninety three year old Joan Anderson vander Mullen Kiddymanendez. His sister, 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:46.080 spoke outside the courthouse, Ben said. 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:53.360 She give situation, what can a kin do when. 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:55.960 I can't stand it? 0:01:56.680 --> 0:01:59.280 A wrinkle in their case could be the election of 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:03.640 the new La County District Attorney Nathan Hockman. He's not 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:08.440 adopting Gascon's recommendation and told ABC News he wants to 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:11.720 review the case and the law and decide for himself. 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:15.720 There's a cloud over that credibility. Is it a just 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:19.200 decision or was it just a political ploy? Joining me 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:22.920 is Palm Beach County State Attorney Dave Ahrenberg Dave. The 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:27.480 hearing yesterday was over a habeas corpus petition the Menendez 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:32.480 brothers filed in May of twenty twenty three. That's basically 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:35.800 a request for the court to consider whether someone is 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:40.320 being lawfully held tell us about the Menendez brothers Habeas 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:41.320 corpus petition. 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:44.760 The Habeas corpus petition will focus on the new evidence 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:50.040 that came out about sexual abuse from Menendez brother's father. Remember, 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:55.160 there was evidence that the Menendez brother's father had molested 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:58.799 a member of the boy band Menudo. And there's also 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:00.680 a letter that actually written by them. Men and his 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:03.640 brothers too irrelative about their sexual abuse. None of this 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:06.399 was admitted into evidence in their second trial, which led 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:08.959 to a guilty verdict. So they rid of habeas corpuses, 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:11.560 tried to get a court to consider this new evidence 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:16.160 and to reverse the conviction or to set them free. 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:21.519 So this is separate and apart from the resentencing recommendation 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:25.800 that the then LA District Attorney made last month. The 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:29.440 judge here will take different factors into consideration. 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:32.760 Right, there are three channels the men and his brothers 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:35.840 will pursue to get their release. One is the habeas 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:39.080 corpus petition. So the number two would be the resentencing. 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:42.160 That's what the former DA, the one who's outgoing, recommended. 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:45.080 He wanted them to re sentence because of good behavior 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:47.720 in prison to fifty years and then based on the 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:50.440 parole rules at the time, they'd be out already, but 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:52.119 it's still would have to go to the Parle Board. 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:54.240 So that's number two. And the third would be clemency 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:57.000 by the governor, which would still involve the Parole Board, 0:03:57.480 --> 0:04:00.560 but Governor Gavin Newsom has not said web he would 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:03.520 agree to it. So there are three ways that Menendez 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:07.000 brothers could be released early, and at this point it's 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:11.080 hard to say which one they will pursue the most aggressively. 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:14.640 They would probably have the best chance, I think inclemency 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:19.080 from the governor because of all the attention that's been paid, 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:23.440 because the new DA does not seem as keen on 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:27.559 resentencing or letting them out early as the outgoing DA. 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:31.400 Yeah, the new DA said that he's going to review 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:35.880 the extensive prison records, transcripts of the two trials, and 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:41.040 voluminous exhibits, as well as consult with prosecutors, law enforcement, 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:45.599 defense counsel, and victim family members. So at the very least, 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:49.719 that sounds like a long process. Can he just reverse 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:52.440 what the former DA recommended? 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:58.279 Yes, Because the DA that is outgoing Gasson was just 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:03.400 recommending that there be a resentencing. It's not a binding decision, 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:05.440 because that's up to the court to make the decision. 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:08.640 The new DA can come in and say I reject 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:13.159 that recommendation. We do not support an early release, we 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:15.960 do not support a new trial, and so that would 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:18.840 be very powerful because the court takes into account what 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:23.360 the DA's office thinks. And that's why I think perhaps 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:27.280 of the three options habeas corpus petition are resentencing by 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:31.320 way of the DA, and clemency, that it's clemency through 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:33.960 the governor that may be the best route for the 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:35.440 Menendez brothers to get out early. 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:39.360 The Governor apparently is taking a weight and see attitude. 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:42.279 Here's what he said on his podcast. 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:45.160 Last week, the Menendez file, which is now a little 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:48.560 thicker because we did deeper research in the last ten days. 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:50.760 That's all on my desk. I think it's the right 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:54.680 thing to do to hear from the new DA before 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:56.040 I make any decisions. 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:58.880 That doesn't sound particularly promising either. 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:01.640 Well, he is giving the right amount of deference to 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:04.520 the new DA, And if the new DA comes out 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:07.880 and says I don't support resentencing, the Governor can still 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:10.560 say I'm going to grant clemency. But it would really 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:13.279 be big footing the new DA who was just elected 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:15.640 by the people overwhelmingly to say, it doesn't matter what 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:17.760 you think, I'm going to let him out through clemency. 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:20.640 So I think that Governors's doing the right thing in 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:23.039 saying that no matter what I do, at least I 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:25.719 owe the new DA and the voters who elected him 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:28.240 the respect to hear what they say first. 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:32.080 I mean, the Menandez Brothers case wasn't really one of 0:06:32.120 --> 0:06:33.560 the election issues, was it. 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:36.320 Well, yeah, well you can't avoid it. It's a high 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:39.080 profile case. So I think one of the reasons why 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:41.040 the outgoing DA did what he did was that he 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:42.720 knew he had an election around the corner. I mean, 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:45.719 the timing would tell you that that had to be 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:48.000 a consideration, right. He could have waited until after the 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:51.080 election to announce the decision, but announced it just shortly 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:54.440 before the election. And similarly, I think the voters took 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:57.120 that into consideration. Even though it seems like there's a 0:06:57.160 --> 0:06:59.919 lot of momentum to release the brothers early, I do 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:02.479 think that this was one of the issues. Now, the 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:05.680 clear issue though that we're hearing from the voters in 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:09.240 that area where they were thick of the loose policies 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:13.080 of the DA were seen that he was favoring defendants 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:15.960 over victims in many cases, and they wanted a more 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:18.840 tough on crime district attorney, and they got it. 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:22.080 Let's return to the habeas corpus petition. The hearing has 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:27.400 been adjourned until January thirtieth. Dave, you're a prosecutor, does 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:31.360 it seem as if there is enough evidence new evidence 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:34.080 for the judge to grant the petition? 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:38.000 I don't think so. As a prosecutor, I think that 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:40.360 there may be grounds for a new trial based on 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:43.640 the new evidence when it comes to the murder of Jose, 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:46.360 the father, But when it comes to murder of the mother, 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:52.760 there's nothing that would change that the mother, Kitty was 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:57.040 not credibly accused at the trial of sexual abuse or 0:07:57.080 --> 0:07:59.560 there's not even evidence that's come out that shows that 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:03.360 that's what motivate that they were being victimized by both parents. 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:05.920 And so even if you make the case that Jose 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:09.480 was a bad guy who molested his children, then how 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:12.200 do you still explain Kitty. People say, well, she knew 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:14.320 of the abuse and let it happen. But even that, 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:16.480 even if you could show that which is not clear, 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:20.240 then at best. Maybe that warrants a new trial, not 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:23.160 an early release. You remember, the way they massacred the 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:25.880 two parents was that they went over their parents' house. 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:28.600 The parents were sitting with their backs turned watching TV, 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:31.680 eating ice cream, and the two brothers, who planned this 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:35.000 extensively blew them away with shotguns. But Kitty did not 0:08:35.120 --> 0:08:38.400 die right away. She was crawling away, trying to get 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:42.800 away when Lyle went back outside to reload the shotgun 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:47.160 and then returned to do the final act. And there 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:49.840 was so much blood, so much violence, that police thought 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:53.520 it was a mob hit. So I'm not moved on 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:56.880 getting an early release for these brothers based on what 0:08:56.920 --> 0:09:00.520 they did to Kitty. Maybe a new trial, but nothing 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:01.040 more than that. 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:05.680 So the judge handling the havieous petition could order a 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:06.200 new trial. 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:09.160 Yeah, the judge and the habeas could say that the 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:11.920 tenant's rights were violated. There was evidence that should have 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:15.199 been introduced that wasn't introduced a trial. Remember, the judge 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:18.880 at the time refused to introduce this evidence of abuse. 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:22.120 And now there's new evidence. So the judge couldn't say, yes, 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:25.160 we're going to reverse the conviction, overturn it and set 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:27.360 up for a new trial. The judge could actually even 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:30.240 go further and say he's going to let the brothers out, 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:33.760 so we'll see what happens. But even if that doesn't work, 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:36.680 they could go to the other two routes as we mentioned, 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:40.480 the resentencing by way of the local DA and perhaps 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:41.880 clemency from the governor. 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:44.679 The resentencing by way of the local DA. That would 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:47.680 also have to be approved by a judge, a different 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:49.400 judge from the court Miss judge. 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:52.800 It gets a little complicated, so which judge these motions 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:56.680 are filed in front of, But the resentencing first goes 0:09:56.760 --> 0:10:00.400 through the local DA to make a recommendation, and then 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:02.320 it's up to the judge. And I'm not sure if 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:04.600 it is it seem judge or if it a different 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:08.280 judge that would hear the resentencing requests. But the reason 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:12.440 why the DA, the outgoing DA, made the decision to 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:14.960 seek a resentencing was not because of the new evidence 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:18.600 of sexual abuse, but because the two brothers were model prisoners. 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:22.160 They were on good behavior, and to me, that's not 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:26.960 a good enough reason to set aside to life in 0:10:27.120 --> 0:10:30.160 prison sentences. Sentence to life in prison should not get 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:33.440 set aside because the inmates decided to be in good 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.560 behavior while in prison. That should get them privileges in prison, 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:37.680 but not early release. 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:41.600 But what district Attorney George Gascoon was going to do 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:43.240 is legal. 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:46.400 Right, Well, the districttorney can recommend anything, but remember this 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:49.920 district attorney got voted out of office largely because he 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:52.680 was seen as soft on crime. So when he goes 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:56.320 in front of a court and says, your honor, let 0:10:56.360 --> 0:11:00.600 these brothers out early because they behaved well in prison, 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:04.680 I think that is something that a judge will reject, 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:08.360 especially because the community has let their voice be known 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:11.360 that they don't want soft on crime prosecutors. They shouldn't 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:15.600 have people who were sentenced for grizzly murders given life 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:20.640 sentences to get out years early because they were acting 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:21.840 nicely while they're in prison. 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:26.080 Dave, most of the family members of the Menendez brothers 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:31.160 support their release. Where does that fit into the decisions 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:35.760 that are being made by judges and state officials about 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:36.400 their release. 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:40.280 Well, the victims' families will be heard, and that is 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:43.600 a consideration. The fact that most family members support the 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:46.840 brother's release will be a factor in the judge's decision. 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:50.400 In the DA's recommendation and in the governor's decision on clemency, 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:54.320 but it's not unanimous. There's at least one family member 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:57.560 who does not want them released, so it's not unanimous, 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:01.360 but it is a factor that most do support their release. 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:04.880 The next hearing before the judge and the Habeas Corpus 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:10.160 petition will be on January thirtieth and thirty first, and 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:13.560 their attorney, Mark Garrigo said, we hope that by the 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:17.520 end of that hearing or sometime sooner, they'll be released. 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:19.680 Is that too optimistic? 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:22.240 Yes, They're not going to be released before the Habeas 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:25.400 Corpus hearing. The only way that could happen is if 0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:28.560 Ditgomery gives clemency and then it goes before the pro bore. 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:30.320 That's not going to happen. And the fact that we 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:32.480 have a new DA and we have a delay and 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:34.960 now it's going to slow things down. So the momentum 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:38.280 that was there to release the Menandez brothers asap is 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:42.040 now slowed because of the election of the new DA. 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:44.800 And I think it's a good thing because before we 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:48.400 let the passions of the community who's seen movies and 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:52.080 TikTok videos about these brothers rule the day. Maybe we 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:54.200 need to take a step back and reassess what they 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:57.439 actually did and why they did it, and how after 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:00.280 they did it they went on a shopping spree and 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:03.640 went to NBA games, sitting in the front row and 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:07.280 live the life they've always wanted to live. It seemed 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:09.240 like at the time, and I stand by it, that 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:12.079 this was more financial crime. They wanted to inherit the wealth. 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:13.360 They thought they were going to be written out of 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:15.680 the will. They wanted their money, and they got what 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:18.920 they wanted and lied about it until they were caught, 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:21.520 and now they've been in prison ever since. 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:24.120 So the next thing to happen in the case will 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:27.840 either be the full hearings on January thirtieth and thirty 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:32.080 first on the Habeas Corpus petition, or a decision by 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:34.400 the New DA about how to handle the case and 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:38.679 whether to recommend resentencing and release. So let's turn out 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:41.920 to other legal matters. I wanted to get your reaction 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:49.640 to the Special Council yesterday dropping charges against Donald Trump 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:54.800 in both the election interference case and the classified documents case. 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:58.600 I mean, he really had no choice because it was 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:01.840 going to happen once tru gotten off as anyway, what's 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:04.679 the downside and what's the upside if any. 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.360 Well, it was inevitable once Trump won the election that 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:10.719 they would have to dismiss the charges, but the keywords 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:14.319 in the dismissal were without prejudice. That means you can 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:18.160 still refile it, and that would take perhaps January twenty 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:20.960 twenty nine, So who knows what will happen then. But 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:24.760 even if they do refile it, the former president and 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:28.480 soon to be president could still try to pardon himself, 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:32.359 or he could also claim that under the statute of limitations, 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:35.920 you can't refile the charges this many years later. Then 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:38.800 the question is whether the course would allow a postponement 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:41.360 of the charges because of the internal Department of Justice 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:44.040 rule that says you cannot diet a sitting president. There 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:46.320 are a lot of moving parts here, but it does 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:49.240 seem like Trump is above the law to them because 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:53.720 these cases I think are very unlikely to ever amount anything. Now. 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:56.440 The only thing left will be his sentencing in New York, 0:14:56.480 --> 0:15:00.120 which will still be set after he leaves office. And 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:02.400 then there's a Georgia case, which who knows what's going 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:03.240 to happen there. 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:06.800 That seems really stuck and who knows if that will 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:10.160 go forward at all. So there is on record now 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:15.000 a decision by a federal judge, Eileen Cannon that the 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:19.600 appointment of the Special Council was unconstitutional, and the Special 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:23.520 Council is trying to move forward with the appeal of 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:27.560 that in the case against Trump's two co defendants. Do 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:31.320 you think that will work because once Trump comes into office, 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:33.720 I assume he's going to have that case against the 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:35.160 co defendants dismissed. 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:38.360 Well, the case against the two co defendants are allowed 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:41.480 to is allowed to continue because the Department of Justice 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:44.360 policy just says, you cannot indict a sitting president. You 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:47.000 can go after the co defendants, and that is a 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:51.359 way a vehicle for Jack Smith to overturn the egregious 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:56.000 ruling by Judge Cannon that the Special Council appointment of 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:58.800 Jack Smith was unconstitutional. I think he will win on 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:02.360 appeal going after Trump. I don't think it's going to matter. Also, 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:04.960 the next Attorney General, Pam Bondi, is going to want 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:08.160 to use special counsels, and so I think she will 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:12.080 go ahead and just move forward with special counsels like that. 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:14.760 Judge Canon ruly didn't happen. 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:19.000 As you mentioned. Trump has nominated Pam Bondi, the former 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:23.920 Attorney general for Florida, to be the next attorney general. 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:27.160 And I know you know her, so tell us about her. 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:29.440 Well. I worked with her first. I ran against her 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:32.000 in twenty ten for attorney general. She won, I lost. 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:35.440 She hired me as her drugs Are afterwards, and it 0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:38.360 does tell you about her that she would reach across 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:41.480 party lines to appoint a Democrat and got a lot 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:44.240 of criticism from Republican leaders for doing that. I was 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:46.800 her drugs Are. I went after the opioid epidemic, the 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:50.320 pill mills, and we were able to shut them down 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:51.920 and save lives in Florida. So I have a lot 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:54.480 of respect for her for that. And as far as 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:56.840 a person, she's very well liked. She's a very likable, 0:16:56.880 --> 0:17:00.480 outgoing person. She will tether her to say, to the 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:03.320 rule of law. She has no Matt Gates. She's not 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:06.520 going in there to walk out Anthony Fausti and Adam 0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:09.639 Shift and handcuffs. Although I do think she will start 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:12.840 investigations into the investigators, but got to be careful when 0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:15.880 you do that. Remember what happened to John Durham. He 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:19.239 was humiliated when he investigated the investigators, he came up 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:24.000 with small ball, low level charges and got quick acquittaled 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:26.720 and embarrassment for it. So that's a lesson learned. 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:33.119 She has publicly championed Trump's baseless claims of voter fraud, 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:36.359 that there was voter fraud in a twenty twenty presidential election. 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:39.919 She said this on Fox News last August because the 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:42.719 deep state during the last term for President Trump, they 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:45.080 were hiding in the shadows. But now they have a 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:48.760 spotlight on them and they can all be investigated. The 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:52.639 house needs to be cleaned out. That sounds a little 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:58.640 conspiratorial and perhaps indicates a witch hunt maybe coming up. 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:02.640 Yeah, that's news rhetoric, that's political rhetoric. But I've seen 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:05.840 her up close the prosecutor, and there's a difference between 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:09.280 what you see on Fox News as a political commentator 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:11.600 in what you see as a lawyer's a prosecutor. She's 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:15.160 a twenty year prosecutor. She's an eight year attorney general 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:17.199 in the state of Florida. I do not expect her 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:19.919 to trump up to use the term charges against the 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:23.160 president elect's enemies just to please him. I think that 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:26.679 she will investigate the investigators, which will open up a 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:29.399 can of worms. She'll do things that will be controversial 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:31.640 on that front, but overall, I do think she will 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:33.480 be tethered to the rule of law, and she'll do 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:36.320 things that are popular, like cracking down on illicted fentanyl 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:40.680 at the border and going after prohamas supporters on college campuses. 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:44.040 I think that hopefully she will stay closer to that 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:47.840 in her role as prosecutor and left into revenge for 0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:50.480 Donald Trump. The person who was going to be Trump's 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:54.200 restribution is Matt Gates, and he's no longer at the appointee. 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:59.840 When she was Florida AG, she tried to dismantle Obamacare, 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:04.720 the provision that's very popular that bans health insurance companies 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:09.359 from charging more to customers with pre existing conditions. I mean, 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:13.040 it's hard for me to understand the Republicans continuing efforts 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:18.480 to dismantle Obamacare, which is so popular, including among their supporters, 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:20.720 But that is something she could get involved with. 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:23.800 You know, I don't remember exactly what was done then. 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:26.680 I think she joined with other attorneys general to try 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:30.520 to overturn all of Obamacare, and at the time Obamacare 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:33.840 was not as popular as as today today. If they 0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:37.400 try to do it, it will be a severe backlash. But yes, 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:40.280 if you're going to try to overturn our system of healthcare, 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:42.360 you got to have something to replace it with. And 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:45.160 Trump says he'll have a replacement in two weeks at least. 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:47.240 He's been saying that for the last eight years. 0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:51.000 The confirmation process sounds like it will be much easier. 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:53.480 Yeah. I know her, and you know I know what 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:56.200 kind of person she is. And although we disagree with politics, 0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:59.640 we do we have different ideologies. He's always been fair 0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:02.560 to me. She's always been selling. I have worked well 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:04.840 with and she's worked well with Democrats. She's never been 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:07.400 a big partisan. She is loyal to Donald Trump. It's 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:09.960 clear she is loyal to Donald Trump. I'm not going 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:12.920 in this with rose colored glasses. But if you're a Democrat, 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:15.159 Tally Yates is not walking through that door. If you're 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:17.399 a Democrat, I think this is the best nominee that 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:19.600 you're going to get from Donald Trump. And if she's 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:21.960 not the nominee, then yeah, maybe you'll get Rurie Giuliani 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:23.639 or the MyPillow guy with a law degree. 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:26.440 You don't want that, No, you don't, Thanks so much. 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:30.720 Dave always a pleasure. That's bomb Beach County State Attorney 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:34.240 Dave Ehrenberg coming up next on the Bloomberg Law Show. 0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:38.320 Senate Democrats are being criticized for making a deal with 0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:43.760 Republicans to abandon appellate judicial nominees in favor of trial 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:47.720 court nominees. I'm June gross when you're listening to Bloomberg. 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:52.399 Senate and Democrats have struck a deal with Republicans to 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:57.159 abandon four of President Biden's nominees for appellate courts in 0:20:57.240 --> 0:21:01.320 order to advance his nominees for trial courts. The deal 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:05.879 comes after Republicans had employed stalling tactics this week to 0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:10.240 complicate Democratic efforts to confirm as many of Biden's judicial 0:21:10.240 --> 0:21:14.280 picks as possible before Republicans gained control of the White 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:18.560 House and Senate in January. Many including progressives and a 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:22.160 Senator on the Judiciary Committee, are critical of the deal 0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:25.520 because the appellate courts are one step away from the 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:29.240 Supreme Court and policy decisions are made by them For 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:34.440 many states. The agreement derails Biden's efforts to place judges 0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:38.760 on four federal circuit courts before President elect Donald Trump 0:21:38.880 --> 0:21:42.120 returns to the White House. Joining me is an expert 0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:45.520 in the federal judiciary. Carl Tobias, a professor at the 0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:49.400 University of Richmond Law School, tell us about this agreement 0:21:49.480 --> 0:21:52.920 that Senate Democrats made with Senate Republicans. 0:21:53.000 --> 0:22:00.200 Carl, Well, it looks like Democrats promised that they would 0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:05.040 not move on the four Appellate Court nominees who are 0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:08.400 out of committee and on the floor and awaiting confirmation 0:22:08.800 --> 0:22:14.639 debates and votes. In return, Republicans agreed not to obstruct 0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:19.760 a number of district nominees. That number looks like at 0:22:19.880 --> 0:22:23.879 least seven, but maybe more like a dozen, and so 0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:27.760 those are the contours of the deal. So that's where 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:31.680 things stand right now and are not likely to change 0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:35.280