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Speaker 1: Hello, it is me barratun Day back in your ears

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Speaker 1: after a few months of silence. So we are going

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Speaker 1: to be reusing this feed for things related to How

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Speaker 1: to Citizen. If this is just auto playing in your ears,

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Speaker 1: by the way, Hi, I'm Baratundae. You at some point

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Speaker 1: pressed subscribe or follow to the How to Citizen podcast

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Speaker 1: where we believe that citizen is a verb, democracy is

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Speaker 1: something we do, not just something we have, and we're

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Speaker 1: going to keep the feed going. The formal show called

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Speaker 1: How to Citizen still doesn't quite exist yet, but the

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Speaker 1: world needs these messages now more than ever, and we

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Speaker 1: stay connected to people doing good work and we'll bring

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Speaker 1: that to you as we can. So I just want

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Speaker 1: to bring you slices of my world that still connect

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Speaker 1: deeply with this mission, which drives a lot of what

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Speaker 1: I'm doing out in the world, including the podcast that

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Speaker 1: I have that is Active Life with Machines. So if

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Speaker 1: you've been missing my voice on a regular basis just

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Speaker 1: showing up in your ears every week or so.

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Speaker 2: Check that out.

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Speaker 1: That is about how we live well with technology and

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Speaker 1: not just endure it. And there is a spirit of

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Speaker 1: how the citizen with tech that imbues that whole project,

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Speaker 1: But right now, I just wanted to check in with you,

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Speaker 1: and then I'm going to share a conversation I had

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Speaker 1: on the check in. So it's twenty fourth of November

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, and it's been like the longest year

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Speaker 1: ever right in the United States in many parts of

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Speaker 1: the world. And that thing that we've been saying for

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Speaker 1: a while, that that democracy is dying but also being born,

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Speaker 1: we're in the middle of that at this very moment,

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Speaker 1: Like that is what is happening at this moment. You know,

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Speaker 1: We've got Mayor elect Zora Mamdani from New York City.

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Speaker 1: We had big performance by the Democratic candidates in the

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five off year elections. We've got a lot

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Speaker 1: of shifting and also the infliction of pain on the

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Speaker 1: hungriest and poorest of Americans, which was absolutely unnecessary. We

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Speaker 1: found money for Argentina, but not for our own people.

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Speaker 1: So there's a lot going on that can generate a

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Speaker 1: ton of ire in one and there's some beauty happening.

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Speaker 1: And we are on the road to the two hundred

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Speaker 1: and fiftieth anniversary of the Declaration of Independence for our country,

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Speaker 1: and that's going to be a big, awkward birthday party.

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Speaker 1: But it doesn't have to be. And there's other ways

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Speaker 1: that we can honor real history, the kind being banned

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Speaker 1: right now, but the kind that will not die. And

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Speaker 1: one version of that that's happening is this week long

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Speaker 1: documentary by Ken Burns and teams on PBS, The American Revolution.

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Speaker 1: I have been watching every episode. I have been writing

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Speaker 1: about every episode on my newsletter, my sub stack. You

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Speaker 1: can find it at newsletter dot baratunde dot com. I

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Speaker 1: call it speak easy, you know, telling it like it

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Speaker 1: is and the way things can be. And I've been

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Speaker 1: moved by the amount of revelations and embrace of complexity

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Speaker 1: and whole truth in this. I still have criticism, there's

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Speaker 1: still some things being left out, but this is a

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Speaker 1: massive upgrade to one of the stories of us that

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Speaker 1: matters the most. So I'm offering Ken Burns my flowers.

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Speaker 1: I'm encouraging you to head over to newsletter dot baratunde

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Speaker 1: dot com to check out that series of my writing

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Speaker 1: about the series called The American Revolution. And what I'm

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Speaker 1: about to drop into your ears right now is coincis

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Speaker 1: perfectly timed to relate to that. In October, I was

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Speaker 1: invited to a conference called the Masters of Scale Summit.

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Speaker 1: The title is a misdirect It sounds like a big

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Speaker 1: tech conference to dominate the world, and it may have

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Speaker 1: started with a little bit of that intention, but that's

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Speaker 1: not the spirit of what I felt on the ground there.

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Speaker 1: It is principally funded and organized by Reid Hoffman. He's

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Speaker 1: the LinkedIn co founder and part of the original PayPal mafia.

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Speaker 1: He's one of the billionaires we have left who still

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Speaker 1: believes in we the people and democracy and not the

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Speaker 1: ceo monarchy, techno fascist bullshit that folks like Peter Teel

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Speaker 1: have been backing the likes of Curtis Jarvin to inflict

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Speaker 1: on us. That'd be another talking to that I provide

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Speaker 1: to you later. I was invited into this space to

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Speaker 1: deliver a poem about AI, which maybe I'll throw that

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Speaker 1: in the feed too, but it will definitely be a

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Speaker 1: from the life with Machine side of my universes, and

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Speaker 1: to sit down in a conversation with a former general

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Speaker 1: named Stanley McCrystal. I had met the general on multiple

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Speaker 1: occasions before in the past five years and was impressed

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Speaker 1: with his candor. I am not a stand for US

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Speaker 1: military might just carte blanche. I respect the people who

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Speaker 1: have sacrificed and signed up for the armed services. And

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Speaker 1: there is a complex and brutal history of US, you know,

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Speaker 1: trying to deliver democracy at the end of the gun,

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Speaker 1: and all the things that the military has also represented,

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Speaker 1: and it's represented a radical level of inclusion and opportunity

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Speaker 1: before other parts of society that folks in my own

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Speaker 1: family have been a part of and benefited from, including

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Speaker 1: my own father. So when given the opportunity to speak

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Speaker 1: with the General, I took it. He has a book

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Speaker 1: out about character, and this feels like a real good

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Speaker 1: time to talk about character and leadership. And so we

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Speaker 1: open with that and we get personal and his experiences

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Speaker 1: leading combat operations in Afghanistan, and then we get into

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Speaker 1: the real meat of it, the use of military force

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Speaker 1: on the ground in US cities as deployed by the

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Speaker 1: President of the United States. This occupying military force in

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles, Washington, DC, Chicago, threatened in Portland, active now

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Speaker 1: in Charlotte, North Carolina, and who knows who is next.

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Speaker 1: And so I asked the General about his thoughts about that,

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Speaker 1: and his answer came back to the Revolutionary War, the

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Speaker 1: American revolution. So I'm not going to spoil the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: I will let you hear that full conversation. It is

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Speaker 1: coming to you from a podcast called Rapid Response, and

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Speaker 1: this is a show that the Masters of Scale Network

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Speaker 1: puts out. So I hope that you will enjoy this.

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Speaker 1: I'm supposed to say some things. I thought I was

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Speaker 1: all smooth, but here's some of what we agreed on,

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Speaker 1: what they gave me to set it up. Outside of

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Speaker 1: that authentic thing. So Rapid Response, just to give a

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Speaker 1: little more context, this is a podcast featuring candid conversations

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Speaker 1: with today's top business and civic leaders as they navigate

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Speaker 1: real time challenges. And so Stan which he insists I

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Speaker 1: call him he and I explored a lot of those

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Speaker 1: real time challenges about character, about the use of the

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Speaker 1: military on our own soil, and about AI. We covered

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Speaker 1: a lot in a little bit of time. So I

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Speaker 1: just want to encourage you at a gratitude to the

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Speaker 1: Rapid Response team. Please find them and follow Rapid Response

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Speaker 1: wherever you listen to podcasts like right here where they

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Speaker 1: showed up and now here's the episode.

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Speaker 3: If we need to decide what is our character in

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Speaker 3: America going to be? What is okay and what is

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Speaker 3: not okay because we've allowed the norms to slip. We

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Speaker 3: watch TV and we see people lie to us on TV,

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Speaker 3: and we accept it. We decide that let's hold each

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Speaker 3: other to account. We get to decide what condonation we are.

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Speaker 4: That's Stanley McCrystal, retired US General and Leadership Advisor to CEOs,

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Speaker 4: talking live at the twenty twenty five Masters of Scale

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Speaker 4: summit in San Francisco on October eighth. Stan has been

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Speaker 4: a guest on Rapid Response before, most recently to talk

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Speaker 4: about his book on Character. In this special episode, stan

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Speaker 4: is in a read onstage by another repeat Rapid Response guest, futurist,

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Speaker 4: culture critic and media personality Baritunde Thurston. They talk about

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Speaker 4: the responsibility of leaders in twenty twenty five, the role

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Speaker 4: of the US military in civil society, and what it

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Speaker 4: means to be courageous. Plus they do it all with

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Speaker 4: warmth and a smile. So let's get to it. I'm

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Speaker 4: Bob Safian and this is Rapid Response.

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Speaker 1: Hello General McCrystal, Thank you for being here with us.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: In your book on Character, you wrote about a period

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Speaker 1: of your life when you were dismissive of philosophy, you said,

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Speaker 1: and I quote famous philosophers in my junior high school,

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Speaker 1: they would have been bullied and had their lunch money stolen. Stan,

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Speaker 1: did you know that I'm majored in philosophy, not till today.

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Speaker 1: Anything you want to say to me, well, this is

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Speaker 1: very uncomfortable. Well, we can lean into that discomfort and

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Speaker 1: work through it. In a more serious note. I was

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Speaker 1: moved by your book. I was moved by your philosophical

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Speaker 1: exploration of the concept of character, not just pushing a

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Speaker 1: specific version of it, but breaking it down into component parts.

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Speaker 1: Character is conviction plus discipline. And the thing that you

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Speaker 1: argue for is to be curious about our convictions. Why

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Speaker 1: is it important for you for us to not just

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Speaker 1: have character or have good character, but to challenge the

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Speaker 1: components of it in our lives.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: If you break character into the convictions, the strongly held

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Speaker 3: beliefs you have, times you're disciplined to live to them,

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Speaker 3: because anything is zero if you don't have the discipline

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Speaker 3: to live to it. The convictions matter a lot, but

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Speaker 3: they're not the things that someone just told you.

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Speaker 2: And if you think about.

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Speaker 3: It, most of us of the religion we were raised

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Speaker 3: in where the nationality we were born into.

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Speaker 2: We are a product of the experience we've had.

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Speaker 3: So much of what we believe is what was sort

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Speaker 3: of handed to us as we went along.

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Speaker 2: That don't make it right.

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Speaker 3: And I remember, you know, in the counter terrorist fight,

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Speaker 3: we would be against members of al Qaeda who were

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Speaker 3: extraordinarily effective, and they were killing people and they were

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Speaker 3: trying to kill us at the same time.

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Speaker 2: The best they.

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Speaker 3: Had were loyal, they were brave, they were focused on

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Speaker 3: a cause that they believed in, and the only difference

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Speaker 3: between me and my people and them was a life's journey.

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Speaker 3: Had we switched life's journey, every probability is we'd have

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Speaker 3: been at the other place. And so once you get there,

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Speaker 3: you step back and.

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Speaker 2: Go, well, then maybe they're not entirely wrong. Doesn't mean

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Speaker 2: I agree with them.

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Speaker 3: I mean I support them, but it means that my

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Speaker 3: convictions need me to pressure test them to the greatest

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Speaker 3: degree possible. Part of that comes with philosophy, and I

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Speaker 3: didn't do it through much of my life. I did

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Speaker 3: a few things, but then as I get older, you

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Speaker 3: start realizing how important character always was. It was always

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Speaker 3: the thing at the moment you didn't always consider it

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Speaker 3: that way. You were trying to be more proficient in this,

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Speaker 3: or more successful and this or more powerful, and.

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Speaker 2: Then at the end you go.

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Speaker 3: The common denominator of getting it right was always character.

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Speaker 3: And the decisions that I'm most proud of were good character.

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Speaker 3: And the ones that I regret, and there are some,

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Speaker 3: they were places where I didn't live to the character

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Speaker 3: that I knew was the right answer. And so I

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Speaker 3: think we've got to be humble enough to decide what

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Speaker 3: we think we believe and then challenge it.

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Speaker 1: I want to follow up on the humility and on

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Speaker 1: what we do, and I use we intentionally. I know

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Speaker 1: I have not always lived up to the character I

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Speaker 1: profess and deeply believe in. I've put my emotional needs

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Speaker 1: before someone close to me and an act of small

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Speaker 1: but significant selfishness. And maybe you've had your own versions,

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Speaker 1: and people here have What have you found works when

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Speaker 1: we recognize that we haven't lived up to our character

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Speaker 1: to recover from that and still maintain a good path forward.

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Speaker 3: I think the first thing is we say, well, that's

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Speaker 3: not me. But if any of you flew here and

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Speaker 3: you made the mistake of checking your luggage, you had

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Speaker 3: to go to the turnstile where the bags come out,

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Speaker 3: and what do you typically see. You see people crowded

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Speaker 3: right up next to it, like Will Debeest at the

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Speaker 3: last watering her serengetti. And there's this idea that my

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Speaker 3: bag's going to come out faster if I'm closer, but

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Speaker 3: the people down below putting the bags on things they

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Speaker 3: don't care. If we all stepped back three or four feet,

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Speaker 3: everybody could see it, we could calmly get in and

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Speaker 3: reach our bag and when it came out and we

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Speaker 3: could move on. Yet, why are we that way? Not

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Speaker 3: because we're bad people. I don't think it's because those

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Speaker 3: people in that moment we are anonymous to. We're tired,

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Speaker 3: we want to get home. We're never going to see

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Speaker 3: them again, so we can.

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Speaker 2: Be that way.

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Speaker 3: And how many times do you deal with somebody or

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Speaker 3: some instance where you just think I'm going to be

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Speaker 3: this way because I'm angry or it serves my purposes,

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Speaker 3: things you would never do around people that you see

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Speaker 3: routine me or your family, and then you realize we

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Speaker 3: have lapses. So I think that the key thing for

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Speaker 3: me is and I'm pretty self critical. At the end

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Speaker 3: of every day, I literally say and think of the

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Speaker 3: times in the day when I was not the person

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Speaker 3: I should have been, when I responded incorrectly to somebody.

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Speaker 2: I got mad, I was short. But there's just a litany.

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Speaker 3: And the key is not to make that the new standard.

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Speaker 3: The key is to say that was wrong, and tomorrow

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Speaker 3: I'm going to try to do better, knowing you're never

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Speaker 3: going to get to perfect. But if you don't have

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Speaker 3: some kind of pressures and then you didn't ask this.

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Speaker 3: But I think the other thing that we desperately need

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Speaker 3: in society are norms where we hold each other accountable.

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Speaker 2: Where we're willing to do that.

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Speaker 3: You know your mom would do that, but if your

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Speaker 3: mom's not around, who will do it? And sometimes we

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Speaker 3: need to look each other in the eye and just

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Speaker 3: go that's that's not the way we do things. That's

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Speaker 3: not the way we treat other people. That's not what

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Speaker 3: we would consider the standard that we all want to

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Speaker 3: hold ourselves to.

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Speaker 1: Think you're brought up how we treat other people. Let's

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Speaker 1: talk about what is happening with the US government right now,

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Speaker 1: which has a duty of care to treat people a

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Speaker 1: certain way, and is making really radical decisions on how

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Speaker 1: to deploy the services of the government. How do you

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Speaker 1: respond to the deployment of armed forces in American cities,

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Speaker 1: particularly those are one by Democrats, but really any city,

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Speaker 1: or the deployment of immigration officers dressed as special operators.

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Speaker 1: How do you see this and how do you feel

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Speaker 1: this use of our military right now?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think it's unfortunate and I think it's a

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Speaker 3: big mistake. But if we stepped back and sort of

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Speaker 3: antiseptically said, someone looks at you and you didn't like it,

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Speaker 3: and they say, well, you don't believe in illegal immigration,

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Speaker 3: do you? And I sort of don't believe in anything

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Speaker 3: that begins with illegal But that's really not the issue here.

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Speaker 3: The issue is how we're treating each other, how we're

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Speaker 3: treating people, And there are probably two levels to it.

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Speaker 3: The first is people are human beings, and there should

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Speaker 3: be a standard that we all decide we're going to

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Speaker 3: treat people, particularly people who are less strong than we are,

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Speaker 3: who need to be supported, who need to be respected,

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Speaker 3: who need to be helped. Then the use of the military,

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Speaker 3: and this is course personal to me. There's a tradition

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Speaker 3: of not using the military in the streets of the

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Speaker 3: United States. The posse commatatis rule. And it's got a

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Speaker 3: really good reason. It's because you don't want the American

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Speaker 3: people to identify the military with people that come and police.

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Speaker 2: You're familiar with a quartering Act. Part of our.

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Speaker 3: Initial the founding fathers put in couldn't make soldiers live

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Speaker 3: in your homes, and that was because the Red Coats

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Speaker 3: had done it, and so we were trying to protect

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Speaker 3: ourselves from it, and of course people grew to hate

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Speaker 3: the Red Coats. What we don't want is we don't

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Speaker 3: want the American people to grow to fear or be

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Speaker 3: resentful of our own military. Because the military has to

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Speaker 3: be a mirror of the population. It has to be diverse,

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Speaker 3: it has to be as much talent as we can bring.

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Speaker 3: Parents have to feel good about their sons and daughters

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Speaker 3: going into the service, so there won't be a service.

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Speaker 2: And so there's got.

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Speaker 3: To be this organic relationship, and so you've got to

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Speaker 3: be very careful. Now, are there instances where the military

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Speaker 3: can do things other organizations can't? Absolutely, there's a common

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Speaker 3: sense point of this. But I think the apolitical nature

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Speaker 3: of our military is one of the sacred norms that

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Speaker 3: we have respected for most of our history. Never perfectly,

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Speaker 3: but pretty darn well. And I'm sorry to go on

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Speaker 3: so long. When I was a senior officer, actually with

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Speaker 3: all ranks, I never knew the political persuasion of any

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Speaker 3: of my peers. I didn't know if they were liberal.

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Speaker 3: I didn't know if they were conservative. We didn't talk

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Speaker 3: about it. It was considered inappropriate to do that, and

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Speaker 3: of course it was inappropriate to talk about it with

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Speaker 3: your subordinates, because that's undue influence. You just didn't because

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Speaker 3: the military wasn't part of that. And the problem is

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Speaker 3: if if a military gets politicized, we need only look

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Speaker 3: around the world for examples where that happens, then suddenly

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Speaker 3: it has a different role in society and we won't

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Speaker 3: like it.

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Speaker 2: I guarantee it.

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Speaker 1: You probably can answer this one, But how are y'all

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Speaker 1: talking about this in the former general's group chat.

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Speaker 2: You're right, there is no group chat.

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Speaker 3: That there are communities of people, not just former military,

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Speaker 3: but who just cared deeply about our country. They've been

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Speaker 3: alongside service members who've sacrificed, they have sometimes sacrificed, and

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Speaker 3: they just have this sense of responsibility for the future

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Speaker 3: of the nation that although we're not serving actively right now,

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Speaker 3: So we don't do those things. There's still this emotional attachment.

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Speaker 3: So I think there's an entire community of people out

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Speaker 3: there who feel very strongly that we need to go

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Speaker 3: in a better direction.

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Speaker 4: Stan isn't being COI about a better direction. His description

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Speaker 4: of the diverse political perspectives within the military echoes what

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Speaker 4: I keep hearing from business leaders too, about the need

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Speaker 4: for their organizations to represent the wide breadth of the population,

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Speaker 4: even when that's challenging. So how is evolving technology like

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Speaker 4: AI impacting the military and what sort of character do

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Speaker 4: we need in deploying AI. Stan and Baratunde talk about that,

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Speaker 4: what it means to be courageous and more. After the

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Speaker 4: break stay with us. Before the break, we heard retired

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Speaker 4: US General Stanley McCrystal live at the Masters of Scale

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Speaker 4: summit in conversation with futurist and media personality Baritunde Thurston

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Speaker 4: about the role of character in leadership and the role

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Speaker 4: of the military in civil society. Now Standing, Baritunde talk

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Speaker 4: about what it means to be a citizen in a democracy,

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Speaker 4: stands exhortation to embrace national service and the double edged

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Speaker 4: sword of AI.

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Speaker 2: Let's jump back.

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Speaker 1: In one of the projects I've been an honored to

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Speaker 1: work on, it's called how It's a Citizen. We interpret

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Speaker 1: citizen as a verb, and it's not just about voting

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Speaker 1: and electing people. It's what we do every day, and

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Speaker 1: our work and premise has been telling these stories of

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Speaker 1: people who are practicing democracy, who are citizen ing in

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Speaker 1: innumerable ways. When you hear that more open definition of

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Speaker 1: citizen as a verb, what is your call to the

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Speaker 1: people right now on how we can citizen?

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Speaker 3: I love what you're doing with that. I love citizen

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Speaker 3: and being a verb because I think that's what it is.

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Speaker 3: Most of the people in this room became citizens by

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Speaker 3: action and a birth.

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Speaker 2: We didn't do anything to earn it.

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Speaker 3: And most of us think that if we pay our

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Speaker 3: taxes and we vote, we've checked the block. But as

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Speaker 3: you know, in the last presidential election, only sixty five

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Speaker 3: percent of eligible voters voted. That's lower percentage than Afghanistan

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Speaker 3: when I was serving there. And so whoever wins, wins

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Speaker 3: with less than fifty percent of sixty five percent, so

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Speaker 3: the winner comes in the low thirties. I don't think

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Speaker 3: that that's really the kind of democracy we need. So

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Speaker 3: The first thing I think is we need to take

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Speaker 3: the responsibilities. You know, people talk of inalienable rights, we

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Speaker 3: have responsibilities to go with those. And I think they

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Speaker 3: are wider than simply voting or paying taxes or not

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Speaker 3: violating the law. I think they are participating in things

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Speaker 3: that make the nation stronger.

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Speaker 2: In our communities.

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Speaker 3: There's a great tradition in America about volunteer fire departments

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Speaker 3: and raising barns and all the things. You couldn't have

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Speaker 3: a community work without that, and yet we've drifted a

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Speaker 3: bit from that. I'm a great believer in national service

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Speaker 3: for all Americans. So every young American gets an opportunity

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Speaker 3: to do a year of fully paid national service. Not

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Speaker 3: big money, stipend kind of money, but so they don't

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Speaker 3: have to be supported by their parents, health care, conservation, whatever.

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Speaker 2: Some will go in the military, some might go law enforcement.

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Speaker 3: But everybody should go do something for the nation for

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Speaker 3: a year or two, and then they should go on

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Speaker 3: with their life and they will have a common experience

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Speaker 3: when they get together, they meet somebody later when their

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Speaker 3: kids are playing soccer, they go, where'd you serve? Somebody

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Speaker 3: says I taught down in New Orleans and somebody else says,

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Speaker 3: I built trails in this park.

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Speaker 2: I worked with the elderly, and that.

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Speaker 3: Connectivity would give us something that starts to go across

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Speaker 3: zip codes, political ideology, and all rape, religion, all the

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Speaker 3: other things that divide us, something that's a common experience.

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Speaker 3: Even if it was a really painful year, even if

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Speaker 3: they just hated that year, they'd laugh about it. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: mine shucked more on yours, and maybe my generation could

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Speaker 3: craft it to make sure it did.

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Speaker 1: Well done. We are also good at playing the We're

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Speaker 1: good at playing the oppression Olympics. So let's let's not

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Speaker 1: do that one. I work on a show. I've helped

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Speaker 1: create a show called Life with Machines, and we're exploring

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Speaker 1: how to live well with tech, not just endure it.

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Speaker 1: There's this emergence of AI where it's not just a

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Speaker 1: tool anymore. It's becoming a teammate and we're having professional

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Speaker 1: and personal and even familiar relationships. How do you think

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Speaker 1: about the role of artificial intelligence in the chain of

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Speaker 1: command for military or in a business structure? And what

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Speaker 1: are you seeing that excites you? What are you seeing

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Speaker 1: that deeply concerns you.

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Speaker 3: I think in the positive, it's going to be in

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Speaker 3: a neighbor or it's going to take a staff officer

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Speaker 3: or an intelligence analyst, and they're going to be able

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Speaker 3: to do it just remarkably faster.

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Speaker 2: It took two years to plan.

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Speaker 3: The Normandy invasion during World War Two because the logistics

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Speaker 3: and everything. You'll be able to do that in the

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Speaker 3: morning and it'll be pretty close. And so those kinds

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Speaker 3: of things can be much better. You can free up

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Speaker 3: talent to do other things, so that's very positive. There

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Speaker 3: are going to be some challenges. One, we used to

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Speaker 3: say that we'll never put anything that doesn't have a

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Speaker 3: human in the lethal loop, meanbe a hum before we

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Speaker 3: shoot and kill something, a human will be involved.

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Speaker 2: That's already gone. It's not fast enough.

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Speaker 3: We respond to things now strictly because of machines, because

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Speaker 3: if a human's in there, you just can't get it done.

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Speaker 3: And so machines are already doing that. And if we

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Speaker 3: train humans well, they can become great tools. But we

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Speaker 3: do have to understand the power there. But I would

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Speaker 3: throw this scenario to you, as intel AI is starting

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Speaker 3: to be able to derive probabilities of things happening. Suppose

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Speaker 3: you get a scenario where leadership is suddenly told tomorrow

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Speaker 3: Country X is going to invade Country Y and maybe

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Speaker 3: work country why. And a machine tells you this, and

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00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,120
Speaker 3: you know you can't. Don't human store have the ability

438
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 3: to get in and fact check the machine well enough

439
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 3: because of the complexity of all the data that's been

440
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 3: considered and how it's been done. And so they're going

441
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,640
Speaker 3: to have this thing. You are going to get attacked tomorrow.

442
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 2: What do you do? Well?

443
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 3: Traditionally, what leaders would like to do is take the

444
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 3: first punch. Let Pearl Harbor get hit or whatever happens,

445
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 3: so then we have moral right on our side. But

446
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 3: if it's potentially an existential threat, then.

447
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 2: You're going to be put with this idea.

448
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:56,199
Speaker 3: Do I do a preemptive strike to protect our people

449
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 3: based upon what this machine told me? And this machine's

450
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 3: usually right. Now think about that and now speed it up.

451
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,919
Speaker 3: Don't say that you're going to have thirteen days like

452
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 3: President Kennedy did for the Cuban missile crisis. So you're

453
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 3: going to have thirteen minutes and somebody calls the president

454
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 3: says here it is, It says it's coming. It's coming

455
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 3: in thirteen minutes. You've got to make a decision. Right now,

456
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 3: and they say, are the missiles already? Are the enemy

457
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 3: missiles launched? No, but they're about to. So we are

458
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 3: going to have to get our minds around dealing with

459
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 3: some of the things that AI will do that we're

460
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 3: not yet comfortable having done for us.

461
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 1: It sounds like you want to make sure you have

462
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: the type of leader who's maybe thought a bit about character.

463
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:47,640
Speaker 2: That's right.

464
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 3: I mean, I know some people are trying to put

465
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 3: character into AI, but you're going to have to have

466
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 3: leaders who have really thought about this, and they've got

467
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 3: to be so grounded in their values so that they

468
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 3: are to things.

469
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 2: That we know we're comfortable with.

470
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 3: And they're going to have to be courageous because they're

471
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 3: going to make decisions they're going to terrify them in

472
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 3: the moment, not because they'll be hurt, but because they

473
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 3: will fail the nation. And I think that that's going

474
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:22,120
Speaker 3: to have leaders of extraordinary not just confidence, but courage

475
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 3: to accept that kind of responsibility.

476
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 1: We have such little time left. I'm not going to

477
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: pry open a specific question. I'm going to give you

478
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: an opportunity to say something that you wish you had

479
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 1: gotten to say while you're on this stage.

480
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, they kindly mentioned that we have this book on character,

481
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 3: and it's not the brilliance of the book, it's that

482
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,959
Speaker 3: it's the point we need to talk about character. We

483
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 3: need to have a national conversation on character right now.

484
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 3: And we don't need to have it in DC. We

485
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 3: need to have it in churches, in classrooms, at dining

486
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 3: room tables. We need to have it at grassroots level.

487
00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 3: And what we need to do is we need to

488
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 3: decide what is our character in America going to be?

489
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 3: What is okay and what is not okay because we've

490
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 3: allowed the norms to slip. We watch TV and we

491
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 3: see people lie to us on TV and we accept

492
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 3: it because well it's TV and.

493
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 2: That's the way it works. Ah, we decide that.

494
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 3: And so what I want everybody to do is to

495
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 3: think about character, talk about character, and.

496
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 2: Then let's hold each other to account.

497
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 3: Let's we get to decide what kind of nation we

498
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 3: are and if we make no choice, we've decided.

499
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 2: Wow.

500
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 1: A closing reflection of gratitude, there's a lot of volatility.

501
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: We're in a poly crisis crisis that can't decide what

502
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 1: kind of crisis they wants to be.

503
00:29:58,960 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 2: That's true.

504
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: Love, and in times of such volatility, you started to

505
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: say to yourself, we got to hold to something deep.

506
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: We hold a principle right, we hold to each other right,

507
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: and we remember that we have the power. Stan, I'm

508
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 1: a stand of you. Thank you so much, Thank you

509
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 1: empty very much.

510
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 4: Stan and Barratundi have such different backgrounds and experiences, yet

511
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 4: they meet on common ground. I got a chance to

512
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 4: eavesdrop on them chatting backstage before their appearance, and while

513
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 4: they've only just met, the empathy and the mutual respect

514
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 4: was palpable. A decade ago, I interviewed Baritunde and Stan

515
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 4: separately for a series I wrote at Best Company about

516
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 4: what I call Generation flux, people with a mindset of adaptability.

517
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 4: Since then, they've each continued to adjust as our world

518
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 4: has yet remained anchored to core principles.

519
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 2: This is the tricky dance.

520
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 4: We're all engaged in in twenty twenty five, as we

521
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 4: test our own character and our convictions and what it

522
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 4: takes to be courageous in the face of change. Like Baritunde,

523
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 4: I am, as he puts it, a Stan of stands

524
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 4: stand manages to inspire me every.

525
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 2: Time we talk.

526
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 4: I've tried to deconstruct just what it makes him effective

527
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 4: as a leader. There's his calm and his clarity and

528
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 4: his steadiness, but the emotional cords he's able to stir

529
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 4: comes from something deeper and harder to put into words.

530
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 4: Let's just say I think he's in deep touch with

531
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 4: his own humanity. It's something we can all aspire to

532
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 4: and remind ourselves of as we face the political, technological,

533
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 4: and business challenges of our modern age. I'm Bob Safian,

534
00:31:50,520 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening. Response is a wait what original? I'm

535
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 4: Bob Sathian. Our executive producer is Eve Trow. Our producer

536
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 4: is Alex Morris. Associate producer is Mashumaku Tonina mixing and

537
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 4: mastering by Aaron Bastinelli. Our theme music is by Ryan Holiday.

538
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 4: Our head of podcasts is Leetal maulag. For more, visit

539
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 4: Rapid Response Show dot com.

540
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:28,959
Speaker 2: Yo.

541
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: Give it up for General Stanley McCrystal. We honestly, we

542
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 1: had a blast. We had a blast, and I've interviewed

543
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 1: President Obama, I've interviewed Valerie Jarrett, I've interviewed the President

544
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: of the Republic of Georgia.

545
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 2: I've done a lot.

546
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: Of conversations in my adult life, and this was one

547
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: of my favorite because I felt like he was really there,

548
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 1: like I was really there. The people in the room

549
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: were there with us, and I hope you felt it,

550
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: and I hope that you take away from it a lot,

551
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,959
Speaker 1: but in particular that we're not alone. That there are

552
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 1: people who know the difference between right and wrong and

553
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 1: are still willing to speak up for it. And we're

554
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: seeing it in the set of Democratic lawmakers who put

555
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: out that montage video encouraging members of the services, reminding

556
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: them that they have an obligation to disobey illegal orders,

557
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 1: things that violate the Constitution. And in the season when

558
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: the President of the United States is calling that sedition

559
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 1: and demanding execution of folks who speak like that. I

560
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: just want to recognize the strength of character in former

561
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: General the Crystal stan and people like read who do

562
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: have a lot to lose by platforming discussions like this.

563
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: And so to all who put that conference on, I'm

564
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 1: very grateful to the General and all who serve with honor.

565
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: I am grateful to you who are listening right now.

566
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 1: I am grateful and just know that something amazing and

567
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 1: better is coming because we're going to bring that into being.

568
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 1: I have a lot more I'll be sharing with you

569
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 1: over the coming weeks and months. I'm going to use

570
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 1: this feed a bit more to the best of my

571
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 1: ability to keep the channels of communication open. And if

572
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 1: there's stuff you want to hear about and from me

573
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 1: or this network of those of us who believe that

574
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,879
Speaker 1: citizen is a verb, hit me up. Head on over

575
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 1: to Baratunde dot com. You can drop a message to

576
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 1: me direct through my website. Me and my team see it,

577
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: and just take a deep breath. And in this season

578
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: of gratitude, I am grateful for you, and I hope

579
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,280
Speaker 1: that you can find a way to express your gratitude

580
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 1: for someone in your life who has allowed you to

581
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,439
Speaker 1: be here right now.

582
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 2: Peace,