WEBVTT - The App Where Strangers Lend Each Other Money 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:15.796 Pushkin. 0:00:20.196 --> 0:00:24.036 By twenty twenty, Nina Mohunty had been working in fintech 0:00:24.316 --> 0:00:29.036 in financial technology for several years. She'd worked at MasterCard. 0:00:29.676 --> 0:00:31.996 At this point, she was working at Klarna, the buy now, 0:00:32.036 --> 0:00:34.996 pay later company, and she was working for them in London, 0:00:35.676 --> 0:00:38.516 and she started paying attention to what seemed like a 0:00:38.556 --> 0:00:44.596 big underserved market for financial technology immigrants. There were, of course, 0:00:44.756 --> 0:00:47.316 lots of tools for immigrants to send money home right, 0:00:47.356 --> 0:00:50.276 lots of tools for remittances, but it didn't seem like 0:00:50.356 --> 0:00:53.876 anyone was creating financial tools to help immigrants save money 0:00:54.356 --> 0:00:56.796 in the UK where they were for themselves. 0:00:57.436 --> 0:01:00.556 So I went down the rabbit hole and I spoke 0:01:00.596 --> 0:01:04.236 to anyone that was speak to me. People often say 0:01:04.236 --> 0:01:08.036 that I have the personality of a golden retriever. It 0:01:08.116 --> 0:01:10.596 just speaks to anyone. I was going up to people 0:01:10.636 --> 0:01:13.876 and saying, you know, bus drivers on their cigarette bricks 0:01:13.916 --> 0:01:16.516 and asking them how are you managing your money? And 0:01:16.556 --> 0:01:18.516 I was going to cleaners and offices, and I was 0:01:18.556 --> 0:01:23.116 going up to you know, nurses. I was literally someone 0:01:23.196 --> 0:01:25.076 was taking blood and I was asking them about how 0:01:25.116 --> 0:01:29.116 they're managing their money. And these all became translated over 0:01:29.156 --> 0:01:33.276 time into post it notes that started to populate my wall, 0:01:34.036 --> 0:01:38.836 and it very much looked like that meme from Always 0:01:38.876 --> 0:01:42.956 Sunny in Philadelphia where He's got the red string. And 0:01:43.596 --> 0:01:46.196 I remember one day waking up and just looking at 0:01:46.196 --> 0:01:48.236 this wall, and because I had just moved back to 0:01:48.276 --> 0:01:50.636 the UK, I didn't have anything on my walls. It 0:01:50.676 --> 0:01:56.316 was like a barely furnished flat and I didn't have 0:01:56.476 --> 0:01:59.436 room for art on my walls because it was covered 0:01:59.516 --> 0:02:03.076 in screenshots of apps that already exist out there and 0:02:03.116 --> 0:02:05.996 what I thought they were doing well. It had notes 0:02:06.036 --> 0:02:08.676 of you know, a quote that someone said to me 0:02:08.676 --> 0:02:10.596 when we were having a chat and about how they 0:02:10.636 --> 0:02:15.236 wish they could do xyz And so that was my 0:02:15.356 --> 0:02:19.276 decor and that was ultimately what pushed me to start 0:02:19.276 --> 0:02:22.476 my business Blue Money. 0:02:27.276 --> 0:02:29.556 I'm Jacob Goldstein and this is What's Your Problem, the 0:02:29.596 --> 0:02:31.436 show where I talk to people who are trying to 0:02:31.476 --> 0:02:35.516 make technological progress. My guest today is Nina Mohunti, the 0:02:35.596 --> 0:02:39.596 founder and CEO of Blue Money. As you'll hear, Nina 0:02:39.636 --> 0:02:42.796 wound up creating an app based on a savings and 0:02:42.836 --> 0:02:45.316 credit system that has been used around the world for 0:02:45.356 --> 0:02:49.516 a thousand years, literally a thousand years, And she told 0:02:49.556 --> 0:02:52.396 me she hopes to build on this thousand year old 0:02:52.436 --> 0:02:56.596 tradition to eventually create an international financial powerhouse. 0:02:57.996 --> 0:03:01.916 So the problem that I kept coming across is people 0:03:01.996 --> 0:03:07.476 that are new to a country find it very, very 0:03:07.516 --> 0:03:13.276 difficult to actually integrate into the financial system. And there's 0:03:13.716 --> 0:03:17.156 a number of reasons for this. People might struggle to 0:03:17.156 --> 0:03:21.916 get access to credit because they don't have a credit score, 0:03:22.596 --> 0:03:26.356 and especially in the US and increasingly in Europe, your 0:03:26.396 --> 0:03:29.076 credit score determines a lot about what you can do, 0:03:29.876 --> 0:03:32.876 oftentimes if you can rent a place from a private landlord, 0:03:32.916 --> 0:03:35.796 for example, where you can get a job, So these 0:03:35.796 --> 0:03:38.836 are all things that are really important. It affects your 0:03:38.836 --> 0:03:42.636 ability to get insurance, right and if you're driving, you 0:03:42.676 --> 0:03:48.116 need car insurance most places. And if the financial system 0:03:48.956 --> 0:03:52.156 doesn't know who you are, because there's no pay per 0:03:52.236 --> 0:03:55.836 trail of you in this country, you're basically invisible to 0:03:55.916 --> 0:03:59.236 the financial system. And that's what I kept hearing over 0:03:59.356 --> 0:04:01.596 and over and over when I spoke to folks, which 0:04:01.716 --> 0:04:06.676 was I'm here, I have a bank account, but I 0:04:06.756 --> 0:04:10.476 don't know what is available to me, and I struggle 0:04:10.796 --> 0:04:14.356 to access other financial products. Okay, and when I do, 0:04:15.276 --> 0:04:18.676 if I get to that stage where I know what 0:04:18.716 --> 0:04:23.836 I want. I want a car loan. I can't because 0:04:24.156 --> 0:04:26.636 I don't exist, I don't have a credit score. So 0:04:26.636 --> 0:04:29.556 I'm going to just have a someone say well, computer 0:04:29.636 --> 0:04:32.036 says no, there's no car loan available for you. 0:04:32.636 --> 0:04:36.516 So okay, So this is the landscape that you're walking into. 0:04:36.996 --> 0:04:38.236 What do you decide to do? 0:04:39.276 --> 0:04:42.476 Yes. One of the things that kept coming out of 0:04:42.516 --> 0:04:48.996 these conversations was the presence of informal financial systems. And 0:04:49.036 --> 0:04:51.636 this was really intriguing to me. I come from an 0:04:51.636 --> 0:04:55.956 immigrant background, and one of the behaviors that kept coming 0:04:56.036 --> 0:04:59.356 up was a behavior that I recognized actually, in which 0:04:59.436 --> 0:05:03.156 groups of people would come together and pull their funds, 0:05:04.076 --> 0:05:08.516 often with their own social group. So you know someone 0:05:08.516 --> 0:05:10.636 that they see at the market, or they live on 0:05:10.676 --> 0:05:13.996 the same council estate together, or they see each other 0:05:14.036 --> 0:05:17.516 at church or mosque, and they would come together and 0:05:17.596 --> 0:05:21.556 pull their money and kind of increase their affordability for 0:05:21.636 --> 0:05:24.516 one person at a time within that group. 0:05:24.956 --> 0:05:27.276 Let's talk about this in some detail, because this is 0:05:27.276 --> 0:05:32.396 a very specific thing. Right, it has an academic name. Right, 0:05:32.636 --> 0:05:37.116 it's called the Rotating Savings and Credit Association absolutely ROSCA 0:05:37.196 --> 0:05:40.156 to its friends. Yes, and like it's actually One of 0:05:40.196 --> 0:05:42.356 the most interesting things to me about what you are 0:05:42.356 --> 0:05:44.236 doing is that it is this thing that is like 0:05:44.396 --> 0:05:50.236 a thousand years old. Literally yes, So so tell me specifically, 0:05:50.316 --> 0:05:53.476 like how does erosca work? Right, old school before you 0:05:53.516 --> 0:05:54.756 come along, old school. 0:05:54.876 --> 0:05:57.276 The way that this is work, this would work is 0:05:57.676 --> 0:05:59.516 I'm going to give you the example of my grandma 0:06:00.236 --> 0:06:03.876 who used to do this in her village in India. 0:06:03.916 --> 0:06:06.476 But this is true story. This is a truth just 0:06:06.916 --> 0:06:08.396 so story. It's actually happening. 0:06:08.476 --> 0:06:11.196 This is actually happens. This is a true story. My 0:06:11.276 --> 0:06:17.796 grandmother lived in a small village and she would choose 0:06:17.876 --> 0:06:21.156 people from the village who she would see at market, 0:06:21.196 --> 0:06:24.636 who she would see at the temple, who she knew 0:06:24.676 --> 0:06:28.436 were trustworthy, to come together into this group. And she 0:06:28.476 --> 0:06:32.876 would determine a set sum of money. So to make 0:06:32.916 --> 0:06:37.236 the maths easy, let's say one hundred rupees, okay, and 0:06:37.476 --> 0:06:40.676 let's say there were ten women that were coming together. 0:06:41.756 --> 0:06:44.956 So these ten women would agree to put a hundred 0:06:44.996 --> 0:06:50.356 groupees into a pot every month. So my grandmother would 0:06:50.356 --> 0:06:53.236 go around and she would collect the one hundred rupees 0:06:53.276 --> 0:06:56.916 from all ten women, and that pot would suddenly have 0:06:57.396 --> 0:07:01.356 a thousand rupees in it and one woman would be 0:07:01.516 --> 0:07:05.596 given that one thousand rupees to have for the month, 0:07:06.156 --> 0:07:09.916 so they could spend it however they wished. They could 0:07:09.956 --> 0:07:15.196 buy a new sorry, they could you know, sacrifice something 0:07:15.356 --> 0:07:18.196 at the temple, they could put it towards their child's 0:07:18.196 --> 0:07:21.596 tuition for school, whatever they wanted to do with it. 0:07:22.156 --> 0:07:25.236 The next month, they would all come together, or rather 0:07:25.436 --> 0:07:28.716 my grandmother would go and seek them out and gather 0:07:28.836 --> 0:07:32.356 that one hundred rupees from each person until all ten 0:07:32.436 --> 0:07:34.596 had put one hundred rupees in, which meant there was 0:07:34.636 --> 0:07:37.836 a thousand rupees for the next person to use. And 0:07:37.916 --> 0:07:42.996 so every month that would rotate until each person over 0:07:43.036 --> 0:07:46.436 that ten month cycle had an opportunity to use that 0:07:46.516 --> 0:07:51.436 one thousand rupees. And what is so fascinating about this 0:07:51.516 --> 0:07:56.796 to me is it is something that I thought was Asian, 0:07:56.956 --> 0:08:01.076 because I'm half Indian half Taiwanese. We do this in 0:08:01.076 --> 0:08:04.116 Taiwan and in China as well. We call it hui 0:08:04.876 --> 0:08:10.196 which means association or hui kind of coming together in 0:08:10.236 --> 0:08:13.476 an association. But in India we call them chip funds 0:08:13.716 --> 0:08:16.796 or kiddies. So I thought it must be an Asian thing. 0:08:18.836 --> 0:08:22.236 And then I remember when I first moved here to 0:08:22.316 --> 0:08:26.076 working at the US Embassy in London. I met a 0:08:26.156 --> 0:08:30.436 Jamaican man. He said, Oh, we do something just like this, 0:08:30.476 --> 0:08:34.796 and we call it Pardna or Pardna hand. And then 0:08:34.876 --> 0:08:39.196 I spoke to my friend who's British Pakistani and she said, 0:08:39.236 --> 0:08:42.076 we do this too, we call it committee. And I thought, okay, 0:08:42.076 --> 0:08:45.396 well that's still asia interesting. Then I met someone who 0:08:45.476 --> 0:08:48.716 was Somali and she said, we do this too, we 0:08:48.876 --> 0:08:53.556 call it hegbud. And then I met someone who's Mexican 0:08:53.916 --> 0:08:57.516 and said, we do this too, we call it tanda. 0:08:57.796 --> 0:09:01.036 And so the more I sought it out, the more 0:09:01.076 --> 0:09:04.996 I realized that in the global majority, most of us 0:09:04.996 --> 0:09:07.156 are doing this, and we have been doing it for 0:09:07.276 --> 0:09:09.876 generations for a thousand years. 0:09:10.516 --> 0:09:14.156 Right, there's literally I saw a study that found evidence 0:09:14.156 --> 0:09:18.076 of this in like Song China, which is truly like 0:09:18.196 --> 0:09:21.196 a thousand years of mixture, one thousand, Right, So there 0:09:21.236 --> 0:09:25.196 is this interesting question of why, right, Like, this is 0:09:25.236 --> 0:09:29.236 a kind of technology. Right, it's like a bottom up 0:09:29.276 --> 0:09:32.316 financial technology that I think pretty clearly has been sort 0:09:32.316 --> 0:09:37.196 of independently invented in different places over time. Right, So, like, 0:09:37.876 --> 0:09:41.236 what is it about it that makes people keep figuring 0:09:41.276 --> 0:09:42.556 this out and keep doing it? 0:09:43.676 --> 0:09:48.596 So that is something that has plagued my mind for 0:09:48.876 --> 0:09:53.516 years now, not least because I'm building my business around it. 0:09:53.556 --> 0:09:58.396 But yeah, one of the things that I think about 0:09:58.476 --> 0:10:06.236 often is our different cultural attitudes towards money, but also 0:10:06.316 --> 0:10:11.596 just society in general. And there's a I believe he's Dutch, 0:10:12.356 --> 0:10:18.276 a man named Hirtz Hofstetter, and he had this framework, 0:10:18.556 --> 0:10:22.516 the hofstad Is framework of culture, and where every culture 0:10:22.596 --> 0:10:28.796 has a different flavor to it. Obviously, but some cultures 0:10:28.796 --> 0:10:35.116 are very individualistic and some cultures are very collective. And 0:10:35.836 --> 0:10:41.436 in the global South, in Asian countries, in African cultures, 0:10:41.476 --> 0:10:46.636 in Latin cultures, we tend to have more collective cultures, 0:10:47.876 --> 0:10:52.916 whereas in the West we are often more individualistic. 0:10:53.476 --> 0:10:56.156 So there's this broad context of like, okay, a more 0:10:56.196 --> 0:10:58.916 communal vibe leads you into this kind of thing. I mean, 0:10:58.956 --> 0:11:02.396 I could also imagine like it's a kind of savings, right, yeah, 0:11:02.556 --> 0:11:04.876 kind of savings. It's right there in the name. And 0:11:04.916 --> 0:11:06.356 you can think of a lot of places in the 0:11:06.356 --> 0:11:09.076 world where you cannot put your money in the bank, 0:11:09.276 --> 0:11:12.356 or if you could, your money might disappear, right, Like 0:11:12.396 --> 0:11:14.996 the idea that the that the bank is not going 0:11:15.076 --> 0:11:16.556 to go under and that if it does, there's a 0:11:16.596 --> 0:11:20.436 reliable government insurance. Yeah, which is in fact the case 0:11:20.476 --> 0:11:22.276 now in the US and much of the developed world, 0:11:22.396 --> 0:11:24.756 is obviously not the case for most of world history. 0:11:24.756 --> 0:11:28.356 So like that seems like quite a whatever, a less 0:11:28.756 --> 0:11:34.196 warm and fuzzy but also plausible virtue of the ROSCA. 0:11:34.276 --> 0:11:37.796 I absolutely think this. But if we really drill down, 0:11:38.636 --> 0:11:42.196 I mean, in the States, we have credit unions, right, 0:11:42.396 --> 0:11:45.716 or community banks and that sort of thing, and that's 0:11:45.836 --> 0:11:49.476 just a more macro version of a ROSCA, Right. It's 0:11:49.516 --> 0:11:53.036 a group of people coming together with some sort of affinity. 0:11:53.636 --> 0:11:57.236 We all live in the same area, or in Edinburgh, 0:11:57.276 --> 0:12:03.956 there's a lovely facade of what is now a clothing store, 0:12:04.476 --> 0:12:07.436 but it says the Laundry Workers Bank, and it was 0:12:07.476 --> 0:12:10.356 people who worked at the laundry together that came together 0:12:10.876 --> 0:12:14.716 to form effectively a community bank. And so it's something 0:12:14.756 --> 0:12:18.236 we've been doing but have lost sight of over time. 0:12:19.036 --> 0:12:21.116 But I definitely think that you're right that there's something 0:12:21.196 --> 0:12:25.596 in trust or the lack of trust, especially if you 0:12:25.676 --> 0:12:28.076 live in a country where maybe you do not trust 0:12:28.076 --> 0:12:32.236 financial institutions, you do not trust your government for whatever reason. 0:12:33.036 --> 0:12:36.836 I think that's probably why it's so prevalent in those areas, 0:12:36.876 --> 0:12:38.996 more so than it is in the West. 0:12:40.516 --> 0:12:46.236 Okay, so you discover the rosca and you're gonna and 0:12:46.276 --> 0:12:48.476 then what you're gonna build a rosca app I mean, 0:12:48.476 --> 0:12:51.036 that's basically the move at that point. 0:12:51.636 --> 0:12:55.356 What really intrigued me about the rosca and as someone 0:12:55.396 --> 0:12:57.796 who had seen it right with my own parents ing 0:12:57.956 --> 0:13:03.876 and my grandparents doing it, was one it exists in 0:13:03.956 --> 0:13:09.116 almost every culture, uh, non Western culture, I should specify. 0:13:09.836 --> 0:13:12.156 And what was interesting to me about that is, just 0:13:12.316 --> 0:13:16.956 like remittances and money transfer, it's something that every culture does, right. 0:13:16.996 --> 0:13:20.636 It doesn't matter if you're sending money from like my 0:13:20.756 --> 0:13:24.836 dad did, California to India, or to Pakistan or to 0:13:25.036 --> 0:13:30.196 wherever in the world to Mexico. People are sending money 0:13:30.276 --> 0:13:33.436 and so similarly, it was a behavior that was replicable 0:13:33.756 --> 0:13:37.996 across cultures. What was very interesting to me is everyone 0:13:38.076 --> 0:13:39.516 has their own name for it. 0:13:39.996 --> 0:13:42.116 Yeah, give me a list. You did a few, Like, 0:13:42.596 --> 0:13:44.476 how many can you give me? If you just go 0:13:44.596 --> 0:13:48.716 in one breath? Oh gosh, okay, on your marks, get 0:13:48.796 --> 0:13:50.876 set ready, go, We've. 0:13:50.676 --> 0:13:56.596 Got Tannine Mexico Consocio in Brazil. Partner or partner Han 0:13:56.876 --> 0:14:03.916 in Jamaica, money Box in Saint Lucia, hegbad Ayuto in Somalia, 0:14:04.156 --> 0:14:08.556 Ajo in Nigeria or is Susu depending on your tribek 0:14:08.716 --> 0:14:15.636 Limba in Congo, Tontine in any Francophone African country. We've 0:14:15.676 --> 0:14:20.716 got Committee in Bangladesh and Pakistan, panlu Wagan in Philippines, 0:14:21.156 --> 0:14:27.756 Aisan in Malaysia, Hui or Hue in China, and Taiwan 0:14:28.116 --> 0:14:30.916 Jungam in South Korea. 0:14:31.276 --> 0:14:34.596 The list goes on very good. And I can say 0:14:34.636 --> 0:14:37.476 I'm talking about video you were not reading now, you 0:14:37.516 --> 0:14:39.716 were looking like up at the ceiling. That was truly 0:14:39.756 --> 0:14:40.196 off the top. 0:14:40.356 --> 0:14:42.316 Yes, off the top of my head. It's my party 0:14:42.356 --> 0:14:45.876 trick now, So I mean people will be like, I'm 0:14:45.876 --> 0:14:48.156 from here, what is it called? And I have to 0:14:48.196 --> 0:14:51.556 try and figure it out. And then more importantly, and 0:14:51.796 --> 0:14:54.876 going back to the original problem that we were discussing, 0:14:55.556 --> 0:15:02.476 is people are moving huge sums of money. Depending on 0:15:02.556 --> 0:15:05.356 who you speak to, there's one startup that's done the 0:15:05.396 --> 0:15:08.556 math and they think globally there's three hundred billion dollars 0:15:08.636 --> 0:15:15.436 moving through Rosco's globally. But it's something that people take 0:15:15.476 --> 0:15:18.076 with them, especially immigrant communities when they move to a 0:15:18.116 --> 0:15:21.876 new place. Because they are new, they know their community. 0:15:21.916 --> 0:15:25.036 They seek out their community first, they might join the 0:15:25.116 --> 0:15:29.316 community circle or club as we might call it. And 0:15:29.996 --> 0:15:34.036 what is fascinating and so valuable about this is if 0:15:34.036 --> 0:15:37.316 someone is putting in one hundred dollars or one hundred 0:15:37.356 --> 0:15:39.956 pounds or one hundred euros every month and they're paying 0:15:39.996 --> 0:15:44.836 in on time, that's actually really great financial behavior. Right. 0:15:45.476 --> 0:15:46.956 It tells me you're good for the money. 0:15:47.276 --> 0:15:50.996 Yes, that that's that's a good credit right. I mean fundamentally, 0:15:51.956 --> 0:15:54.956 you you select people. When your grandmother was doing this 0:15:55.076 --> 0:15:57.316 choosing people for her club, she had a credit score 0:15:57.436 --> 0:15:59.716 in her mind, right, Like exactly, you are. You are 0:15:59.796 --> 0:16:02.596 just reducing trust to the neighborhood. You're not going to 0:16:02.676 --> 0:16:07.636 invite somebody who's gonna get a thousand bucks right now 0:16:07.756 --> 0:16:10.076 and pay you back a thousand bucks over the next year. 0:16:10.476 --> 0:16:12.316 You're not going to invite them if they are sketchy. 0:16:12.436 --> 0:16:16.316 No. Absolutely, And and some of my favorite interactions I 0:16:16.396 --> 0:16:20.276 speak French, and so where I live in London is 0:16:20.316 --> 0:16:24.196 called Lewisham and there's a lot of West African folks here, 0:16:24.596 --> 0:16:28.516 a lot of Francophone West Africans, and there's a hair 0:16:28.596 --> 0:16:30.756 salon where I go to get my eyebrows done. There's 0:16:30.796 --> 0:16:33.716 a lovely Sri Lankan woman that does that. But there 0:16:33.756 --> 0:16:39.196 are these Ivorian women doing braiding hair and I started 0:16:39.236 --> 0:16:42.316 speaking to them about it, and they're speaking in French, 0:16:42.316 --> 0:16:44.356 and I don't think they realize that I speak French. 0:16:45.476 --> 0:16:49.996 And they were basically just talking shit about the various people. 0:16:50.356 --> 0:16:52.956 And they're like, we don't like so and so she 0:16:53.076 --> 0:16:55.836 never pays in on time, she's not allowed into are 0:16:55.876 --> 0:17:00.036 tol tine as they call it in Francophone Africa, and 0:17:00.116 --> 0:17:04.116 so people are underwriting their community. 0:17:03.596 --> 0:17:09.516 That credit score, gossip at the salon. 0:17:08.076 --> 0:17:10.516 It's the original, and it's like, we know that she 0:17:10.556 --> 0:17:12.676 doesn't pay on time, she doesn't go to church, she's 0:17:12.716 --> 0:17:15.436 not going to be there whatever. But these are things 0:17:15.436 --> 0:17:18.076 that people have been using to underwrite each other for 0:17:19.076 --> 0:17:20.556 thousand years plus. 0:17:20.836 --> 0:17:23.436 Right, So okay, well you've got the thousand years. It's 0:17:23.516 --> 0:17:26.516 time for you to start your company in this narrative. Now, 0:17:26.596 --> 0:17:28.996 how do you start a company, you know, around this idea, 0:17:28.996 --> 0:17:29.836 around this practice. 0:17:31.796 --> 0:17:35.476 Not easily, I'll tell you that much. I think the 0:17:35.596 --> 0:17:40.156 interesting thing is I have worked in the fintech industry 0:17:40.236 --> 0:17:44.956 financial technology for so long now, and it never occurred 0:17:44.956 --> 0:17:47.916 to me that I would be a founder myself or 0:17:48.036 --> 0:17:53.196 the entrepreneur in charge. I'm very good at building things, 0:17:53.316 --> 0:17:57.436 and I've got a lot of pleasure out of building 0:17:57.516 --> 0:18:01.476 interesting products. And so I built a no code app 0:18:02.116 --> 0:18:06.156 and I said, let's just see if this thing works. 0:18:06.796 --> 0:18:11.996 And so I invited fifty women. I do a lot 0:18:11.996 --> 0:18:16.876 of work with various migrant groups and specifically women, and 0:18:17.116 --> 0:18:21.556 invited them to try this web app. And what we 0:18:21.676 --> 0:18:25.276 found was there was one hundred percent payment right. Everyone 0:18:25.356 --> 0:18:29.716 paid on time, and people said to us, this is great. 0:18:30.116 --> 0:18:32.316 I didn't have to go get cash out. I didn't 0:18:32.316 --> 0:18:35.516 have to send my child with the cash down to 0:18:35.596 --> 0:18:38.796 the auntie's house for collection. It was great, like it 0:18:38.876 --> 0:18:40.756 was collected and it was sent out to me when 0:18:40.796 --> 0:18:43.916 it was time to receive the money. And so now 0:18:43.956 --> 0:18:45.636 what do I do, because I have to go and 0:18:45.676 --> 0:18:50.116 get regulated. I can't just be, you know, moving large 0:18:50.116 --> 0:18:53.836 sums of money around and not be regulated. And so 0:18:54.196 --> 0:18:58.036 I started the process of explaining to the Financial Conduct 0:18:58.076 --> 0:19:02.956 Authority what EROSCA is and why it exists. And that 0:19:03.116 --> 0:19:07.196 was actually very very challenging because there aren't many people 0:19:07.236 --> 0:19:11.676 that looked like me that work in the Innovation Department 0:19:11.676 --> 0:19:15.876 of the FCA, right, And if you're you know, a 0:19:15.956 --> 0:19:19.116 native born, white British person, perhaps you've never come across 0:19:19.156 --> 0:19:22.996 this before and you don't understand why anyone would engage 0:19:22.996 --> 0:19:25.836 in this, and you start to ask questions like, well, 0:19:25.876 --> 0:19:28.116 it feels a little bit like peer to peer lending, 0:19:28.516 --> 0:19:30.756 where it feels a little bit like crowdfunding. 0:19:31.636 --> 0:19:34.076 So it does feel a little bit like peer to 0:19:34.116 --> 0:19:36.436 peer lending. That is not an That is not an 0:19:36.876 --> 0:19:38.876 unreasonable thought, it's not at all. 0:19:38.916 --> 0:19:42.476 And even even crowdfunding, you could argue that, yeah, actually, 0:19:42.476 --> 0:19:46.516 in a way, it is crowdfunding and it rotates fine. 0:19:46.716 --> 0:19:50.156 So we really had to make the case that this 0:19:50.396 --> 0:19:54.796 is neither peer to peer lending nor crowdfunding, but its 0:19:54.836 --> 0:19:58.956 own special thing. Then I had to go and face 0:20:00.116 --> 0:20:03.636 the venture capital industry, and that was probably the most 0:20:03.676 --> 0:20:06.996 daunting thing I've ever done to this day. Still. I'm 0:20:07.036 --> 0:20:10.636 from the Silicon Valley, and you know, I grew down 0:20:10.716 --> 0:20:16.076 the street from Apple and you know there, I mean, 0:20:16.276 --> 0:20:18.636 venture capital firms are a dime a dozen in the 0:20:18.676 --> 0:20:24.316 Silicon Valley. But it's very different just driving past and 0:20:24.356 --> 0:20:28.356 then going into actually pitch to these folks to say 0:20:28.756 --> 0:20:30.916 here's this problem that I want to solve, here's why 0:20:30.956 --> 0:20:32.996 I want to do it, and here's why you should 0:20:33.036 --> 0:20:37.196 give me a million pounds to do it. Right. But 0:20:37.316 --> 0:20:41.196 I did that and it was very very daunting, very 0:20:41.316 --> 0:20:44.316 very difficult. But it was one of those things where 0:20:44.836 --> 0:20:47.836 I wouldn't be able to bootstrap, as we say, kind 0:20:47.836 --> 0:20:50.316 of use my own money to fund this business, because 0:20:50.996 --> 0:20:53.916 of course we're building a tech product and it's regulated 0:20:54.436 --> 0:20:57.036 and so it just requires a little bit more of 0:20:57.036 --> 0:21:01.436 that upfront investment. And then from there we were off 0:21:01.436 --> 0:21:02.156 to the races. 0:21:06.316 --> 0:21:18.236 We'll be back in just a minute. 0:21:18.516 --> 0:21:21.716 So how does it work? What's the thing you have now? 0:21:21.756 --> 0:21:22.396 And how does it work? 0:21:22.516 --> 0:21:27.036 Yeah, So the Bloom app is pretty straightforward. It's an 0:21:27.076 --> 0:21:30.396 app where you download it, you register, you go through 0:21:30.756 --> 0:21:34.236 Know your Customer or KYC, so we ask you for 0:21:34.276 --> 0:21:37.396 a selfie and a picture of your ID, and from 0:21:37.396 --> 0:21:41.316 there we do all these checks in the background, make 0:21:41.356 --> 0:21:43.876 sure you are who you say you are, and then 0:21:44.196 --> 0:21:46.876 you go to the homepage and you're able to either 0:21:47.516 --> 0:21:50.956 create a circle, so we call them Bloom circles to 0:21:51.156 --> 0:21:55.236 homogenize the name across cultures. You can either create your 0:21:55.236 --> 0:21:58.236 own circle and choose how much you want to put 0:21:58.316 --> 0:22:01.836 in how often, so you can do it weekly, bi 0:22:01.876 --> 0:22:06.076 weekly or monthly, although monthly is the most popular cadence. 0:22:06.796 --> 0:22:09.876 You choose how much, how many people, and then your 0:22:09.956 --> 0:22:13.116 start date and from there you can share your circle 0:22:13.996 --> 0:22:16.836 and say here's the code, join my circle and in 0:22:16.836 --> 0:22:20.236 a private circle. That means you are in full control. 0:22:20.276 --> 0:22:24.436 And this is the most faithful reproduction I guess of 0:22:25.396 --> 0:22:27.996 what we have done for a thousand years. So it 0:22:28.036 --> 0:22:30.516 can be my friends and family, it can be the 0:22:30.516 --> 0:22:32.116 people at the mosque, whoever, right. 0:22:32.836 --> 0:22:36.236 So in this case, this is just replacing like having 0:22:36.276 --> 0:22:40.076 to take cash to whoever every month, correct with an 0:22:40.116 --> 0:22:43.756 automated system. And so how does the money actually flow? 0:22:43.916 --> 0:22:46.156 Like does everybody have to have a bank account? Are 0:22:46.196 --> 0:22:46.876 you a bank? 0:22:47.276 --> 0:22:52.476 So everyone has to have their own UK based bank 0:22:52.476 --> 0:22:55.596 account because we're based in the UK. And then they 0:22:55.596 --> 0:22:58.756 have to have a UK issue debit card, so we 0:22:58.796 --> 0:23:04.676 don't let people use credit for this particular financial activity. 0:23:05.116 --> 0:23:07.036 But what they do is they connect their debit card 0:23:07.516 --> 0:23:11.436 and the money is automatic collected on the set date 0:23:11.556 --> 0:23:14.876 each month or whatever the cadence is, and then we 0:23:14.916 --> 0:23:17.156 take your bank details and when it's your turn to 0:23:17.196 --> 0:23:21.196 receive your payout. We send that straight into your bank account. 0:23:21.276 --> 0:23:23.636 So a lot of you're basically the rails. 0:23:23.716 --> 0:23:26.516 You're the pipe exactly. We are the pipes. We orchestrate 0:23:26.516 --> 0:23:29.556 the payments for you and take that stress out of 0:23:30.076 --> 0:23:33.796 you know, following up and trying to figure out where 0:23:33.836 --> 0:23:35.436 is the money and someone says, oh, I need to 0:23:35.436 --> 0:23:37.476 get cash out or all those drama. 0:23:37.156 --> 0:23:40.156 That comes with that, and what do you charge? 0:23:40.276 --> 0:23:43.796 So we try a transaction fee of four percent and 0:23:43.836 --> 0:23:46.996 that allows us to safely process and manage your account 0:23:47.796 --> 0:23:49.556 with a little bit of margin for us to be 0:23:49.556 --> 0:23:52.556 able to put back into our business of course. But 0:23:52.716 --> 0:23:56.116 what is really interesting is when you're in the Bloom circles, 0:23:56.436 --> 0:23:59.716 you have the option to do a private circle, but 0:24:00.476 --> 0:24:03.316 most of our volume is actually through what we call 0:24:03.396 --> 0:24:08.276 community or public circles. And this is where people will 0:24:08.396 --> 0:24:13.716 join fleet strangers in a circle. And that has been 0:24:13.836 --> 0:24:16.036 fascinating to me because as someone that. 0:24:16.116 --> 0:24:18.116 Is wild, that's most of your business. 0:24:18.156 --> 0:24:21.796 I would say ninety five percent of our circles are 0:24:22.916 --> 0:24:25.916 pure strangers coming together in circles. 0:24:26.236 --> 0:24:30.676 Is it like a well, what happens if somebody gets 0:24:30.676 --> 0:24:33.036 all the money the first month and then bails and that. 0:24:33.116 --> 0:24:37.316 Is exactly it. So we have had bad actors. But 0:24:37.396 --> 0:24:40.956 you know what is fascinating is we've had people take 0:24:40.996 --> 0:24:45.356 the money and then run, and in this instance that 0:24:45.396 --> 0:24:48.436 will mean they'll stop topping up their account, or they'll 0:24:48.796 --> 0:24:52.516 cancel their card or whatever. But what is very fascinating 0:24:52.636 --> 0:24:55.996 is the people that have cut and run end up 0:24:56.036 --> 0:24:59.396 coming back and we've been made whole. They have paid 0:24:59.476 --> 0:25:03.676 us back for that money because they realize if they 0:25:03.716 --> 0:25:07.436 want to join a subsequent circle, there's no way that 0:25:07.436 --> 0:25:09.876