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Speaker 1: Body dias but Joseph's gotten more and don't touch that

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Speaker 1: or you'll leave your greasy fingerprints behind. That's something that

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Speaker 1: you hear regularly, but it's something that people experience daily.

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Speaker 1: All you got to do, if you have a smartphone

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Speaker 1: is simply look at the glass. You know, the cover

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Speaker 1: of your smartphone. It's a non poor surface, and if

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Speaker 1: you look at it at the side, okay, or from

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Speaker 1: the side and kind of have it obliquely lit, you'll

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Speaker 1: be able to see your prints all over the phone.

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Speaker 1: And you know, that's kind of a saying, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: In life your prints were all over this. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily mean criminal activity. It implies that you've been intimately

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Speaker 1: involved in something, and sometimes that's a good thing, particularly

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Speaker 1: if you're an individual. It's a detailed person and you're

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Speaker 1: a planner. Unlike me, I'm more of a big idea

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Speaker 1: kind of guy, which is kind of weird in forensics,

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Speaker 1: by the way. But today we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: something involving a case of a lady who was very successful.

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Speaker 1: She lived up in North Carolina and she was a

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Speaker 1: realtor and she was kind. But kindness is not going

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Speaker 1: to be in this narrative because she died in a

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Speaker 1: most brutal way. And guess what, the perpetrator's fingerprints.

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Speaker 2: We're all over it.

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Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is bodybacks, Dave. You

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Speaker 1: know when you have little kids and you've got them

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Speaker 1: in their car seat, you know, and they go through

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Speaker 1: the various stages with the car seats. Obviously the parents

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Speaker 1: and grandparents out there will know precisely what we're talking

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Speaker 1: about here. All you have to do is look at

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Speaker 1: the window that they're seated against, and they'll be smudges

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Speaker 1: and smears and everything on the inside. And can I

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Speaker 1: just say something real quick? I miss those smudges and smears,

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Speaker 1: I really do. You know. I've got my grandkids now,

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Speaker 1: but you know, I think back to my kids, you know,

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Speaker 1: touching things and we would get on to them about it.

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Speaker 1: I miss that. I miss seeing now now I'm riding

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Speaker 1: around in a pristine vehicle.

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Speaker 3: The smudges like they're claim might always had Cheetos or

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Speaker 3: something on them. There was never just a pristine anger

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Speaker 3: nail of a child. Hey, Joe, on this particular story,

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Speaker 3: this is one of those things that you played football

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Speaker 3: in high school, did you play in college.

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Speaker 1: No, I broke my neck. Well, yeah, and I lost

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Speaker 1: several I don't know. I had four offers I think

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Speaker 1: back then they were all Service Academy or VAMA, the Citadel,

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Speaker 1: So I was going to be in the military. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's yeah. Sorry, I didn't want to go down that

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Speaker 1: road with you. But yeah.

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Speaker 3: Just the reason I say it is because David Braxton,

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Speaker 3: he was a football player, and I remember when he

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Speaker 3: played at wake Forest. David Braxton played at wake Forest

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Speaker 3: in the late eighties and then ended up playing for

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Speaker 3: the Vikings and and the Bengals in the NFL career

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Speaker 3: in the NFL, And the reason he caught my attention

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Speaker 3: is because the only other real wake Forest graduate that

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Speaker 3: I remember making a name in the NFL was Brian

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Speaker 3: Piccolow with the Parrish I forgot all.

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Speaker 1: I forgot that he was from wake Forest.

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Speaker 3: Right, So anyway, that was good kind of caught my attention.

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Speaker 3: So when we started with this story and I went

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Speaker 3: by David Braxton, sounds familiar. So I get a little

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Speaker 3: look at him, like, oh, there he is, sure enough,

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Speaker 3: it was that's his that is his dad. We're talking

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Speaker 3: about David Braxton's son here in this particular story. And

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Speaker 3: he was also, by the way, Wake Forest one of

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Speaker 3: those really strong academic schools. Oh yeah, academically, you've got

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Speaker 3: to be a you got to be a mental giant

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Speaker 3: to go to a wake Forest or a Duke. And

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Speaker 3: so when David Braxton goes to wake Forest, his son

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Speaker 3: goes to Duke, and Brandon Braxton branded David Braxton plays

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Speaker 3: at Duke for a couple of years. Is uh, he's

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Speaker 3: actually one of these all he's an All American academically. Okay,

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Speaker 3: he was a good football player. He's a wide receiver,

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Speaker 3: but he was an academic All American two different years.

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Speaker 3: That's pretty strong. When you're playing at a D one college.

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Speaker 3: You know, you've got to.

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Speaker 1: Have that college is Duke. Yeah, it's it's hey, you

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Speaker 1: know what else? He was very versatile too, I think yeah,

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Speaker 1: the year before he started playing as a receiver, he

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Speaker 1: had like a really high number of tackles the prior year,

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Speaker 1: which means that he was playing defense as well. So

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Speaker 1: he's kind of multi fasted.

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Speaker 3: And you know, it's always tough when you're the kid

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Speaker 3: of a ballplayer, you know that made it in the NFL.

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Speaker 3: That's a that's a big trail to and he did.

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Speaker 3: Brandon did a good job in high school and college.

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Speaker 3: And the problem is, the story today is not about

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Speaker 3: what Brandon Braxton did on the football field. It's what

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Speaker 3: Brandon Braxton did with and two a friend from high school. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: her name is Whitney Heard. And Whitney Heard was reported

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Speaker 3: missing on July eleventh. Now, when they reported her missing,

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Speaker 3: that's when you know, family and friends are saying, we

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Speaker 3: can't get in touch with her, and nobody really realizes

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Speaker 3: what day they last talked to her. And when they

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Speaker 3: started thinking about it, Joe, nobody had heard from her

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Speaker 3: since the fourth of July. So by the time she

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Speaker 3: was reported missing, it was already a week. Yeah, and

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Speaker 3: she was found on July fourteenth. And what got my

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Speaker 3: attention on this was Whitney Hurd was found in her

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Speaker 3: own condominium, in her own town home by a private investigator.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's Isn't that fascinating because that's not something that

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Speaker 1: we hear, you know, you and I Yeah, you and

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Speaker 1: I being kids of the sixties, we grew up on Mannix,

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Speaker 1: Yeah and Barnaby Jones and you know, oh my favorite

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Speaker 1: was yeah a rock for trial les, you know, and

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Speaker 1: you see those private investigators in those television shows, and

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Speaker 1: they're always involved in murder cases, you know, and it's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they do get involved. I've been consulted by them before

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Speaker 1: as an expert. I've given speeches at state private investigator

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Speaker 1: meetings and they're always a lot of fun to be around.

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Speaker 1: But the line share of private investigators are not going

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Speaker 1: to go out and discover a body. And that's what

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Speaker 1: really I'm thinking. So the private investigator found the body.

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Speaker 1: This is not like, you know, the Mecklenburg County Sheriff's

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Speaker 1: office or Charlotte Police Department up in North Carolina. It's

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Speaker 1: a private investigator, which was really odd.

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Speaker 3: And he finds her on July fourteenth. She's reported missing

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Speaker 3: July eleventh. Now I'm gonna just I'm going to throw

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Speaker 3: something out there, and yeah, because I thought this was

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Speaker 3: kind of obvious, but obviously not. If I go missing, Joe,

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Speaker 3: you don't hear from me, and you report me missing,

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Speaker 3: would you please come to my house and check it

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Speaker 3: and if you can't get in, go ahead and break in.

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Speaker 3: You have my permission to break in and find my boss.

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Speaker 1: Okay, everybody, here's that. Now I'm having it on the

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Speaker 1: right now, I have your permission, Okay, all right, go ahead.

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Speaker 3: Before you're going to report me missing or report me missing,

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Speaker 3: but come to my house. At least somebody come to

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Speaker 3: my house if you're going to report me missing, because

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Speaker 3: that's where she was found by the private detective. Now,

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Speaker 3: if you're a loved one and you're reporting somebody missing

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Speaker 3: and you haven't gone to their house, what are you

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Speaker 3: doing for looking?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I don't understand it. You know what

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Speaker 1: this reminds me of kind of and we just covered

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Speaker 1: these cases. I said it, right, It kind of reminds

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Speaker 1: me of the Casey case with the people, the guys

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Speaker 1: in the backyard, you know where they had to you know,

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Speaker 1: you had people other than the police that had to

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Speaker 1: go there and try to, you know, search them out.

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Speaker 1: It's not uncommon for and we've used this term before, Dave,

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Speaker 1: you and I have identifying finders. Finders are some of

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Speaker 1: them fascinating people you'll ever talk to in any investigations,

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Speaker 1: and it can be in God, this sounds horribly morbid,

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Speaker 1: and I'm not. It's not my intention to be disrespectful,

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Speaker 1: but you get the greatest stories because it's it's people

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Speaker 1: that randomly find a body and just think about it.

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Speaker 1: You know how you would react if it were you

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Speaker 1: and you walk up on a deceased person or you

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Speaker 1: gain entry. And I got to tell you for you

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Speaker 1: know we're talking. Let's see you had said, now this

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Speaker 1: is back in twenty twenty twenty four, it's in July,

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Speaker 1: the last time she was known to be in the

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Speaker 1: Land of the Living. I think you had said the fourth.

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Speaker 2: Right, and so I tracked it back.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't you know, because I was trying to figure

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Speaker 3: out again you have me now looking at the finder,

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Speaker 3: and I got to thank you for that. I never

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Speaker 3: did it until you were talking about it a couple

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Speaker 3: of shows ago and you mentioned the finder, and I

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Speaker 3: started thinking of how important the finder is to the

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Speaker 3: story when it's somebody who's not a cop.

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Speaker 1: You know it really is, because I've got to tell you,

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Speaker 1: and I think that to a person most investigators, if

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Speaker 1: you're dealing with the finder, and sometimes the finder is hard,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to peg down. I hate to keep using

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Speaker 1: this kind of I don't know, this kind of odd

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Speaker 1: term for an individual, because you can get you can

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Speaker 1: get phone calls, or you can get flagged downs what

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Speaker 1: cops call flag downs where somebody steps into the road

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Speaker 1: and they're like waving their hand at a cop that's

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Speaker 1: just on their beat patrol. And then the cop gets

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Speaker 1: out and they'll say, person's dead in the house, and

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Speaker 1: the next thing you know, the person that flagged them

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Speaker 1: down is gone. I mean, they don't hang around. And

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Speaker 1: it used to be where we had if you were

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Speaker 1: if you had payphones, you would you would get a

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Speaker 1: hang up. There would be hang ups on the payphones

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Speaker 1: where people would call walk up and you know, because

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Speaker 1: you could punch in nine to one one, you don't

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Speaker 1: need any money for that, and then they would either

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Speaker 1: drop the phone or they would hang up, and then

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Speaker 1: the cops would roll in and you're never going to

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Speaker 1: know who that person is. And the fact that you

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Speaker 1: do have them always as an investigator, if I have

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Speaker 1: a finder, I'm gonna look at them long and hard

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Speaker 1: because I had The question I have is what is

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Speaker 1: it in this universe that puts you in the same

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Speaker 1: location with not just a deceased person, but also a

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Speaker 1: homicide victim. You know, and listen if you if you're

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Speaker 1: not suspicious of that, there's good, healthy suspicion. Okay, it's

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Speaker 1: not wrong to be suspicious of people. I want to

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Speaker 1: abuse any of you out there that hear this and

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Speaker 1: think that it's something negative. It's not. It's called it's

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Speaker 1: actually called discernment, you know. And so you plug that

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Speaker 1: in there and you want to, you know, take a long,

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Speaker 1: hard look. But when you're talking about a p I,

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Speaker 1: a private investigator, Dave, they don't work for free, brother,

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Speaker 1: they don't work for free.

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Speaker 3: And that's why I'm saying, before you hire, you know,

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Speaker 3: before you do anything. I mean, would you not just

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Speaker 3: go to the house. I guess That's what I'm a

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Speaker 3: little bit perturbed with, is that nobody. You know, Look,

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Speaker 3: I don't know their family history, I don't know anything.

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Speaker 3: Maybe they didn't live nearby, you know, and call a

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Speaker 3: fare check. I would get that. I mean, we do

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Speaker 3: have a lot of welfare checks. But they reported her missing,

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Speaker 3: and that's different than calling and asking for a welfare check.

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Speaker 3: Maybe they did and the police said, hey, we can't

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Speaker 3: even get it. And the police are not going to

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Speaker 3: barge into your door, you know, they can't do that.

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Speaker 3: They have probable cause to believe, like if they poke

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Speaker 3: their head in and they see a body laying on

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Speaker 3: the ground and they're there to check on that person.

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Speaker 3: They could go in on that.

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Speaker 1: But that does not But that does not apply to

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Speaker 1: a private investigator. If you're working for the family, now

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Speaker 1: you can get I think I would imagine, I guess

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Speaker 1: if the cops really wanted to be, you know, disagreeable,

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Speaker 1: that's a con word I'll use, they could charge you

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Speaker 1: with breaking and entering, maybe burglary or certainly trespass. But

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Speaker 1: if you've got if you've got a family. But she said,

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Speaker 1: you know, she's a thirties, she's in her mid thirties,

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Speaker 1: assuming she does in fact live there alone. She doesn't

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Speaker 1: have someone that is, you know, sharing that space with her.

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Speaker 1: She's a grown woman. So from a legal standpoint, any

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Speaker 1: kind of extended family or her immediate family, if it's

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Speaker 1: a mom or dad or brother, sister, they actually don't

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Speaker 1: have any kind of legal right, you know, to barge

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Speaker 1: into their relatives home. Now, if they have a key,

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Speaker 1: and maybe this person said, you know, come by and

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Speaker 1: check on the house periodically, you know they can do that.

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Speaker 1: But when you think about that, they've gone to the

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Speaker 1: trouble of hiring a private investigator. It speaks volumes and

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about what you said about the distance, because

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Speaker 1: there are sometimes you know, where folks are separated. You know,

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Speaker 1: my wife talks to her mother every day, and you know,

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Speaker 1: my mother, my mother in law, doesn't live here in

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Speaker 1: the state. My mother doesn't live here in the state.

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Speaker 1: I don't have any relatives other than my son and

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Speaker 1: my wife that live here in this state. And so

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Speaker 1: you know, if you but if you talk to them regularly,

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Speaker 1: then that's going to rouse your suspicions.

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Speaker 3: With Whitney Hurt, she was a real estate person and

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Speaker 3: professionally at thirty two years old, she was well thought of,

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Speaker 3: She was well off. This is an upscale neighborhood. Okay,

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Speaker 3: this is not a person who lived on that edge

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Speaker 3: of society, Joe. She's living mainstream, well off, thirty two,

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Speaker 3: got her own life, doesn't need anything. I mean, this

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Speaker 3: is a successful woman, intelligent. I mean, there's a lot

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Speaker 3: going on here that I still cannot get to the

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Speaker 3: point of. Okay, if police get a missing person's I

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Speaker 3: would think that. And I'm not knocking the police or

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Speaker 3: anybody else. I'm just asking you, Joe, isn't the first

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Speaker 3: thing they're going to do. We have a family who

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Speaker 3: has not been able to get in touch with their

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Speaker 3: loved one. This thirty two year old realtor has been

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Speaker 3: reported missing. Now maybe and I'm just spitballing here, but

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Speaker 3: the captain says, Hey, Joe, why aren't you and Dave

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Speaker 3: in your patrol today. Why don't you guys run on

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Speaker 3: over to miss Hurd's house and just knock on the door.

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Speaker 3: Ceef see anything? That just seems like the first start

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Speaker 3: and that you would call the family eight? Anybody let

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Speaker 3: us in? Can we go inside? I mean, I don't

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Speaker 3: know what the rules are here, but I'm just thinking,

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Speaker 3: if you're going to go to the trouble of reporting

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Speaker 3: somebody missing, the first thing you would do is check

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Speaker 3: out their home, home, car.

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Speaker 2: Those are the two things I'm looking for.

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Speaker 3: And by the way, yeah, when they went looking for her, Joe, yeah,

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Speaker 3: the car was gone.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And that's a big piece to this. Let's just

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Speaker 1: say you have neighbors, all right, that you deal with

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Speaker 1: day in and day out. You see them regularly. The

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Speaker 1: one way that you might know that your neighbor is

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Speaker 1: home is not that you physically see them. It's that

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Speaker 1: you see their vehicle. And it is that vehicle, a

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Speaker 1: twenty fourteen white BMW X three a little suv that

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Speaker 1: winds up being a big piece to this puzzle. My

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Speaker 1: first my favorite Spider Man that came out was the

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Speaker 1: one with Toby McGuire. I think it was Sam Raimi

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Speaker 1: that directed it. I love that. I love that Spider

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Speaker 1: Man because it just seemed and it it of course

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Speaker 1: had Willem Dafoe in it, who played one of the

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Speaker 1: best bad guys ever in The Green Goblin. And I

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Speaker 1: love the attention that they paid a pay to the

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Speaker 1: detail in that movie. And one of the things that

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Speaker 1: really stands out for me is there is that one

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Speaker 1: scene where Toby McGuire Spider Man, or before he's actually

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Speaker 1: Spider Man. After his bit, he suddenly realizes that he

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Speaker 1: can climb a wall, and they do a close up.

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Speaker 1: It's like a micro shot of his finger pas and

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Speaker 1: you can see the little I don't know, the little

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Speaker 1: hairs that pop out of the fingerpad, and all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden it facilitates them climbing up a wall. You know.

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Speaker 1: I know that's a cartoon or you know it's a comic,

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Speaker 1: you know, or whatever. I don't watch those kinds of

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Speaker 1: movies anymore, but that particular demonstration in that movie says

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Speaker 1: a lot about fingerprints and how they work, because you know,

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Speaker 1: and I've mentioned this before in the distant past in

301
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Speaker 1: other cases, but just as kind of a quick primer,

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Speaker 1: fingerprints are not something that you have on the ends

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Speaker 1: of your fingers. Fingerprints are something that you leave behind.

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Speaker 1: And that's one of the statements that I make to

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Speaker 1: my students all the time at jack State when we're

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Speaker 1: talking about when I'm teaching my intro to Forensics class. So,

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Speaker 1: what do you have on the tips of your fingers, Well,

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Speaker 1: you have a finger pad, okay, and you have what

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Speaker 1: are referred to as friction ridges, and you have fatty

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Speaker 1: lipid oils that come out of those pads. There's pores

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Speaker 1: that you can actually see. Do you know that you

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Speaker 1: can actually see when you lift a fingerprint when you're

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Speaker 1: looking at what's referred to as the minutia, which they are,

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Speaker 1: these all these different types of little features that we

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Speaker 1: look for in a very specific way regarding fingerprints. That

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Speaker 1: one of the features that we look look at and

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Speaker 1: the positioning of that feature relative to the rest of

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Speaker 1: the print are pores. And when you see a poor

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Speaker 1: that space shows up in a very symmetrical appearance on

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Speaker 1: the actual lifted print and it's unique, okay, And so

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Speaker 1: contained on the surface of these friction ridges are all

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Speaker 1: these bits of minutia. Going back to Spider Man, one

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Speaker 1: of the things that one of the ways the fingers

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Speaker 1: function when we're picking things up is that you have

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Speaker 1: these lines and curves and hills and valleys and all

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Speaker 1: these things on the tips of your fingers and the

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Speaker 1: friction ridges. So you can pick things up and you

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Speaker 1: leave a print behind as a result of touching a surface,

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Speaker 1: and in this case there were prints in addition to DNA.

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Speaker 1: You know, we've kind of robbed traditional fingerprinting now and

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Speaker 1: DNA uses our people in a vernacular common vernacular will

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Speaker 1: say DNA fingerprints. But the origin of the term fingerprint

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Speaker 1: goes back hundreds of years, even back to ancient China,

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Speaker 1: where they would use a fingerprint as an identifier in

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Speaker 1: a clay mold for currency, exchange for exchange for good.

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Speaker 1: So you would carry around proof of your fingerprint, and

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Speaker 1: if you're dealing with somebody regularly, they would have your

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Speaker 1: fingerprint on file that had been mashed down into soft clay.

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Speaker 1: And it was one of the ways back then, all

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Speaker 1: those years ago, you know, probably when my ancestors were

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Speaker 1: still living in thatched, you know, roof huts or wherever

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Speaker 1: it was, and you know they had no higher learning

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Speaker 1: or perception at that point in time. The Chinese were

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Speaker 1: doing this long in advance of what was going on

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Speaker 1: in Europe. But here's here's an interesting little factoid. Because

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Speaker 1: we hear about fingerprints quite a bit as that they

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Speaker 1: are unique to each and every one of us. Dave,

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Speaker 1: did you know that there has never been an empirical

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Speaker 1: scientific study that validates that assertion. So how do they

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Speaker 1: say that because they've never found to or they that

351
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Speaker 1: are alike. However, if you go back and you look

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Speaker 1: at the Madrid train bombing, they had a guy where

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Speaker 1: they found a latent print on a plastic bag, and

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Speaker 1: five independent fingerprint examiners looked at that print and said

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Speaker 1: it all belonged to this guy who happened to have

356
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Speaker 1: recently converted to Islam and was an attorney like in

357
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Speaker 1: the Pacific Northwest. They hooked him up and kept him

358
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Speaker 1: in jail, and he had not been in Spain where

359
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,399
Speaker 1: this train blew up. And as it turned out, it

360
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Speaker 1: turned out to be a guy that was a Moroccan

361
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Speaker 1: and that Layton print matched that guy's friction ridges in Morocco,

362
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Speaker 1: and so they had tied it back to that. So

363
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Speaker 1: there's never been like an empirical scientific study, you know,

364
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Speaker 1: to say, to validate that scientific statement or that assertion.

365
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Speaker 2: Rather, but I pulled off that train.

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Speaker 1: Thing, Yeah, I know, And you really wonder when, because

367
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Speaker 1: when they lifted the latent prints in that case, particularly

368
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Speaker 1: off of a plastic you know, just think about it.

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Speaker 1: If you go to wal Mart or any grocery store

370
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Speaker 1: and they bag it up and miss paper bags and

371
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Speaker 1: they bag it up in you know, in these plastic bags,

372
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Speaker 1: it's kind of a non poor surface by a smooth

373
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Speaker 1: surface where you can transfer that oil onto that surface

374
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Speaker 1: and they can lift the print from there. But yeah,

375
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Speaker 1: and so it's just an assertion that that for years

376
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Speaker 1: and years people have held onto. But I think I

377
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Speaker 1: truly do dave that that as time goes by and

378
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Speaker 1: we're using AI a lot more for scientific purposes, there

379
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Speaker 1: might be some things that develop over the years that

380
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Speaker 1: are going to point to say, well, maybe fingerprints are

381
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Speaker 1: not necessarily fool proof.

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Speaker 3: Or how about this, Go and watch the Nickless Cage

383
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Speaker 3: film from what nineteen ninety nine, two thousand gone in

384
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Speaker 3: sixty seconds where the really smart kid he glued on

385
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Speaker 3: other fingerprints on their fingers.

386
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Speaker 2: I mean, there you go all of a sudden.

387
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Speaker 3: Yeah, So let me back up for a minute, because

388
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Speaker 3: the fingerprints are a huge part of this. But what

389
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Speaker 3: we had here was not a lack of communication. It

390
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:31,399
Speaker 3: was David Braxton or Brandon Braxton. Rather Brandon Braxton after

391
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Speaker 3: he goes to the Duke and all that, and he

392
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Speaker 3: comes back home and he decides, and I'm looking for

393
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Speaker 3: any kind of career thing that he did. I really

394
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Speaker 3: can't find out much about.

395
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Speaker 1: There's nothing I can find.

396
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Speaker 3: Yeah No, And so I'm guessing like many young people

397
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Speaker 3: who leave with big dreams of you know, you're playing

398
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Speaker 3: for a d one school. Duke is one. You're academically

399
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Speaker 3: very strong that you're going to have a pretty good future.

400
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 3: You know, you're laying out you're getting a good head

401
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 3: start on life, as in a if you're a ballplayer

402
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 3: at Duke and you're an academic All American, those are

403
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 3: some big things, okay. And you're coming from an academically

404
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 3: strong family with your dad, and here you go. Now

405
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 3: you don't accomplish anything after you got it, and you

406
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 3: come back home and the first thing you think to

407
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Speaker 3: do is to look up a girl that you knew

408
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 3: were not romantically involved with. You were just friends, acquaintances,

409
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Speaker 3: You had friendships in high school with a number of

410
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Speaker 3: different people that you hung out with. And apparently she

411
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Speaker 3: saw him as a platonic friend. We're just friends, that's it.

412
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Speaker 3: He saw her as much much more. Because what we

413
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Speaker 3: have been able to figure out is that Brandon Braxton,

414
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:48,719
Speaker 3: after reconnecting as a friend, he decided or he began

415
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Speaker 3: doing more than she wanted him to do. Meaning yes,

416
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 3: they hung out at first. Yes when they reconnected they

417
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 3: were friends, but.

418
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Speaker 2: That was it.

419
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Speaker 3: She had a brick wall waterfall right there, saying it

420
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Speaker 3: ain't going any further than this, and it got to

421
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Speaker 3: the point where he started, for want of a better word, stalking.

422
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Speaker 3: Now I'm not saying he was doing anything stalker ish,

423
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Speaker 3: I just don't know another term. When somebody is hanging

424
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Speaker 3: out that you don't want to hang out or is

425
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,880
Speaker 3: that a definition of a stalker? Because this guy actually

426
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 3: got drunk, went to her house, tried to get in,

427
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 3: she wouldn't let him in, and he fell asleep in

428
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 3: his car in her driveway or passed out, depending on

429
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,439
Speaker 3: how you look at it. He also she called the

430
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,880
Speaker 3: police on him when he broke into her home when

431
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 3: she wasn't home, So there are some issues here. They

432
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,719
Speaker 3: started off as friends in high school. They rekindle their

433
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 3: friendship not romantic, and he wants more and she doesn't

434
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,439
Speaker 3: want it. He won't leave her alone. That's what I'm seeing,

435
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 3: is that. Do you think that's correct?

436
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 2: Yeah?

437
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: I think it is correct. And you know, I like

438
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 1: to think, you know, my you know, and I'll defer

439
00:26:55,240 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: to my colleagues and criminology criminal behavior with degrees of stalking,

440
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: you know, I think that there are things that go

441
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: on and it's snowballs, particularly if somebody has some kind

442
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 1: of mental imbalance or emotional imbalance and their perception, you know.

443
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,360
Speaker 1: And I mean we've all been there, you know. We

444
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 1: we perceive things about other people, maybe a relationship that

445
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: we long for, and it turns out that this isn't

446
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: going to go anywhere. And some people have a hard

447
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 1: time just saying, oh, okay, well it's not going to

448
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: go anywhere next, you know. But you know, with someone

449
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: like this young woman who's thirty two years old, quite

450
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 1: lovely and very successful. Women have a keen sense of

451
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: they have a creep meter, okay, And I think that

452
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: that's that's just there's an accuracy to that because I

453
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 1: think that just naturally, you know, they view themselves as

454
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 1: being threatened by somebody that's given off.

455
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 2: This really.

456
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 1: You know, weird vibe perhaps, and we've heard that over

457
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: and over again. I'm not going to mention any names,

458
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 1: but you know we've heard that over and over again

459
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 1: about I don't know certain cases that may be on

460
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 1: the radar in Idaho right now, and we've heard it

461
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: time and time again with people that have in fact

462
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: been stalked and they you know, are shot or stabbed

463
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: or raped, are just assaulted because they're not giving the

464
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 1: attention to the individual because you know the reality of

465
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: that the person that's the object of the desire here,

466
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: their reality is, Look, I'm I'm working, I'm just trying

467
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: to live my life. Y'ah'll be kind to you, and

468
00:28:55,560 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: by all indications, she's a very kind person. But fortunately

469
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 1: she entered onto the radar of Braxton and what happened

470
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: next it is pure horror. I go to teaching, I

471
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: can't shut my mouth up, start going on about fingerprints

472
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: and whatnot, and you know, here I am. I'm going

473
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: to give you a lecture on it, Dave, and I

474
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: want to come back to this physical designator, if you will,

475
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 1: that was found at the scene. But we had mentioned

476
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: something a few moments ago. There's something that was not

477
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 1: at the scene that played a big role in this,

478
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: and that was her car, was it not, Dave? Her

479
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: car could not be found at the home.

480
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 3: Her people in her neighborhood knew that she was very

481
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 3: proud of her car. Relation people that knew her knew

482
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 3: that her car was something she was proud of, she

483
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 3: liked and by the way, she didn't let anybody else

484
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 3: drive her car. You know, a lot of us have

485
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 3: a kind of peculiar thing about it. Something it can

486
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 3: be something small. With her, it was her car. No,

487
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 3: you're not driving my car. This is mine.

488
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 2: You can't drive it.

489
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 3: I've been that way about certain cars I've had just

490
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 3: the way I yeah, and so I understand that. But

491
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 3: this was something people knew, and her phone was also missing.

492
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 3: So they find her at her home and again foggles

493
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 3: my mind that she's last seen July fourth, that's the

494
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 3: time when they tracked it back. July eleventh, they report

495
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 3: her missing. They being the family, and on July fourteenth,

496
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 3: a private investigator finds her where in her own home.

497
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 3: Now she has found where her car is gone. Phone's gone.

498
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 3: And a neighbor actually saw her car being driven down

499
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 3: the road, not by by Whitney. It was being driven

500
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 3: by a man. There was nobody in the passenger seat

501
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 3: that she could see. And so I say, she the neighbor,

502
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 3: so we know that the car has gone, and that

503
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 3: it was driven away by a man, and that, as

504
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 3: a matter of fact, Whitney did not allow anybody to

505
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 3: drive her car.

506
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 1: So yeah, boy, that would be a huge tell for

507
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: people that see her daily, you know how many. Well,

508
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 1: I'll just I'll think about it for myself as well.

509
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: But you know, both of us, we kind of live,

510
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: you know, we live in neighborhoods and whatnot like so

511
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: many other people do. And you're standing out in your

512
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: yard and you happen to raise your hand as the

513
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 1: guy that lives on the corner comes home from work

514
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: or if they're out and there, you know, out walking

515
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: their dog or whatever it is. There's a familiarity that

516
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: comes about as a result of living around people. Can

517
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 1: you imagine this guy is a key witness in this

518
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: particular case, Dave that notices that her car, who he's

519
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 1: never seen, boils driving. Maybe he has personal knowledge of

520
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: her and knows that no one touches this car.

521
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 2: Actually, it's important to note it was a female.

522
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sorry. The female that bears witness to this

523
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 1: looks and sees a grown man driving her car and

524
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: she's not in it. Well, that's a big tail from

525
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 1: an investigative standpoint. But here's the thing about it. They

526
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: did not find the car at the scene, but unfortunately

527
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: they found her when the PI entered the home. He

528
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: actually discovered her remains. And I'll go ahead and tell you, man,

529
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 1: this is Mecklenburg County, North Carolina. We're right in the

530
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: dead of summer. At this point in time, it's going

531
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: to be hot, and not just hot, but there's no

532
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 1: air moving. Her body is found wrapped in a blanket.

533
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: But I can tell you when this guy walked in

534
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: the door, he didn't have to go very far before

535
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: he realized there was something in the house that was decomposing.

536
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 1: By this time, you know, we're talking the fourth and

537
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: give me that date one more time. She's actually found

538
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: on the fourteenth. Yeah, ten days later, she's found, she's

539
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 1: going to be in at least a moderate state of

540
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: decomposition by this point time. But here's the thing about it.

541
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 1: Whoever had done what we're about to reveal to her

542
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: had wrapped her in a blanket, okay, and left her

543
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: there in her home. Now, when they were able to

544
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 1: remove the blanket, which probably would have been super saturated

545
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 1: with not just blood but also what we refer to

546
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:03,719
Speaker 1: as decomposition fluid as well, well, they discovered she had

547
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 1: been stabbed over and over and over and over again.

548
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 1: So back, you know, back to what you and I

549
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 1: have discussed many times, Dave. I think that you know

550
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: you can agree at this point that stabbing is so intimate.

551
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,840
Speaker 1: It's a very up close and personal kind of event. Uh,

552
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: there's generally an effort to destroy the subject. And just think,

553
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: if you're being rejected by somebody and you have this

554
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: fixation on her, what better to end somebody's life with

555
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 1: than an edged weapon where you're intimately on top of

556
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: her driving this knife over and over and over into

557
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 1: her body. But then you have this kind of I

558
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 1: don't know, lucid moment, moment of lucidity, and you realize

559
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 1: that I've just committed a homicide here with a knife

560
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:04,839
Speaker 1: on a woman that the police have been called. They've

561
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 1: been called to this residence before, and there's connectivity between

562
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 1: her and me. What are you going to do? Well,

563
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 1: I'm going to wrap the body in a blanket. Well,

564
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: why did you do that? Well, probably there's face covering

565
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 1: involved as well. We know from many, many years of

566
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 1: studying these things that if the face is covered on

567
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 1: a homicide victim, that gives you an indication that the

568
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 1: subject that did the killing was experiencing extreme guilt. There's

569
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: a high probability that they knew one another, because contrary

570
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 1: to what people think, the dead do not close their eyes.

571
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: Most of the time. When eyes are closed, it's at

572
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,839
Speaker 1: the hand of another. You can see eyes that are

573
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,280
Speaker 1: kind of slit like, you know when you get there.

574
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,320
Speaker 1: And I've had bodies whose eyes are closed, but it

575
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 1: is the exception as opposed to the norm. He's looking

576
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 1: at her, Dave desire to cover her body and brother

577
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 1: did he ever? And he's got to jump on him.

578
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 1: Now you know this, this is this has probably happened

579
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 1: well in advance of when she was reported missing, which

580
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 1: would have been July the eleventh. I believe according to you, right,

581
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 1: so she could have this event could have a curve

582
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 1: back on July the fifth, for all we know. I

583
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 1: was looking for.

584
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I was looking I was trying to,

585
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 3: you know, build a timeline, because I always try to

586
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 3: build a timeline for myself. That's I'm That's how I think,

587
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 3: and that's why I was kind of I always trying

588
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 3: to make it personal, like if like I did at

589
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 3: the very beginning. But if you're going to report me missing,

590
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,359
Speaker 3: please check my house, Okay before you before you get

591
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 3: police involved, just come and see if. Then when you

592
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 3: call and say, hey, I came to his house, he's

593
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 3: not coming to the door in this particular case though,

594
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 3: And maybe this is why they didn't purge the door,

595
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 3: maybe because her car was missing. Her car wasn't in

596
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 3: the driveway, but a quick canvas of the neighborhood Joe

597
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 3: police would have found out that, yeah, her car is missing,

598
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,759
Speaker 3: and her neighbor saw the car leaving the neighborhood with

599
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 3: a man driving it by himself. That would be kind

600
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 3: of indicative of a problem. Now, they did find the

601
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 3: car about a week later. Police still have not said

602
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 3: where they found the vehicle. But they did not immediately

603
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 3: find her phone with the vehicle. They did bring in

604
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 3: Brandon Braxton to have a chat early on this investigation.

605
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, they did, and lo and behold Dave. When they

606
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 1: did find her car. One of the things that you

607
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: know was obviously done, particularly nowadays, is you're going to

608
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 1: swab the area for DNA, you know, see if you

609
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 1: recover any kind of foreign DNA. And isn't it kind

610
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:57,800
Speaker 1: of an interesting thought here that she doesn't allow anybody

611
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: else to drive that car. So let's just say that

612
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 1: you're touching the gear lever, you're touching the steering wheel,

613
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 1: the blinker, the door handle, you're leaving behind little bits

614
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:20,879
Speaker 1: of you. Okay, you can leave behind DNA perhaps touch

615
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 1: DNA or trace DNA as they prefer to be called

616
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 1: in Idaho.

617
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 3: Really when touch DNA, wait a minute, I've heard it

618
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 3: called touch DNA, but now they wanted to be called

619
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 3: trace DNA.

620
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:38,240
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and that's that's truly the clinical term with

621
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 1: with trace trace DNA. UH is generally what you hear.

622
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 1: It's just interesting now with it. And I can't get

623
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:46,879
Speaker 1: this out of my mind because it keeps going back

624
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 1: and forth with a coburger case, his defense counsel has

625
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:54,280
Speaker 1: asked that they not use touch the term touch DNA

626
00:38:55,320 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: because it implies an intimacy where you're literally touching somebody.

627
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: They want they want the court to adjust the language.

628
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: So and this has been like a big with a case.

629
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 1: It's been like an English and English class. I was

630
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 1: waiting for her to start talking about Jarn's and subjects

631
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: and predicates and everything else. But yeah, they want to

632
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 1: use the term trace DNA. But trace DNA is still

633
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 1: that particular bit of DNA that is left behind in

634
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 1: a case generally comes from skin cells, and it's an

635
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 1: incomplete strand. And so there are certain methodologies that you

636
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: have to go through in order to you know, kind

637
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: of tie this back. But they did find fingerprints within

638
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: the car and lo and behold they actually tie back

639
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 1: to Braxton Dave and he had abandoned the car. I

640
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: guess again, we go back to this term of lucidity.

641
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 1: You know, he's driving around in a dead woman's car

642
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: who he probably knows she's going to be found. I

643
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,720
Speaker 1: don't care how insane you might appear to other people.

644
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 1: He had this this element of self preservation, didn't and

645
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:05,919
Speaker 1: he wanted to put as much distance as he could

646
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 1: between himself and the car. But Dave, we had something

647
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 1: interesting happen in this particular case with with Braxton, and

648
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 1: I don't know that we've we've had it before, but

649
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 1: it involves a message that was sent out from the jailhouse.

650
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: Now he was was he or was he not arrested

651
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 1: for something that was unrelated to a homicide? It was

652
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 1: something else that had brought him there.

653
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 3: Well, you know, this has been a weird case to

654
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 3: follow because of how limiting they are in terms of

655
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 3: what they're releasing in information, like not telling us where

656
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:48,399
Speaker 3: the car was found. This only happened last July. We're

657
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 3: not looking at five years ago. We're not looking at

658
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 3: authoram having to help us solve this. We're looking at

659
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 3: a case that is fairly new, and it just took

660
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 3: eight months between her death and then making the arrest

661
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 3: of Branxton. But we know that we don't know where

662
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 3: they found the car. We do know that he was arrested.

663
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:13,720
Speaker 3: Braxton was Brandon Braxton was in the Mecklenburg County jail

664
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 3: on an unrelated charge, meaning unrelated to the homicide. But

665
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 3: we don't know exactly why he was in there. But

666
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 3: I'm guessing. No, I'm not going to guess. I'm not

667
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 3: going to say that they got in for the stolen

668
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 3: car or anything else. Because her car was reported stolen

669
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 3: when her body was found inside her town home. The

670
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 3: car was missing. So she's here, she doesn't let anybody

671
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 3: drive it. It's stolen. And when they recovered the vehicle,

672
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 3: you know, that's where they found the DNA of that's

673
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 3: where they tracked it back with fingerprints and DNA. It

674
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 3: went to Braxton and he was in meckle the Mecklenburg

675
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 3: County jail. Now, he was complaining about a number of

676
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 3: things in the jail, and apparently in this jail they

677
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 3: have a kiosk where you can act success and leave

678
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 3: notes and things, whether it's a complaint about the food

679
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 3: or the showers or whatever, and that's what they had. They,

680
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:14,760
Speaker 3: being the officers at the jail, got a complaint note,

681
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 3: and in that complaint note, they got an admission of

682
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:22,240
Speaker 3: guilt on this murder. Now it wasn't signed, it wasn't

683
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 3: an actual confession with my name on it and my

684
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 3: thumbprint and all that. It was an admission of guilt

685
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 3: apparently with information not known to anybody but the killer.

686
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 3: And when they got this, as they're trying to figure out, well,

687
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 3: who wrote the note, all they did Joe. They went

688
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 3: back and looked at the Let's see, you're in jail.

689
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 3: What are a couple of things we know about jail.

690
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 3: They're watching inmates all the time. There's cameras everywhere, and

691
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 3: if you're going to use a kiosk, you have to

692
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 3: log in, you have to it's time stamped. And if

693
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 3: they match up, if this time stamp note was at

694
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 3: eight fifty four pm and Dave Mac is standing at

695
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 3: the kiosk at eight fifty four pm, and nobody else

696
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 3: is standing at the kiosk at eight fifty four pm,

697
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 3: and the note is timestamped eight fifty four pm, it's

698
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 3: kind of obvious and clear to all that Dave Mac

699
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 3: wrote the note, which is exactly what happened with Brandon Braxton.

700
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he actually stated, Dave, and it's been tied

701
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: or are credited to him, that he states on this

702
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 1: note that he killed Whitney Hurt. I don't know, you know,

703
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 1: if you're some criminal mastermind, you know you're not necessarily

704
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:42,799
Speaker 1: going to go around running your mouth about that sort

705
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 1: of thing, but the fact that he did, and he

706
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,880
Speaker 1: should know better by that point in time, that he

707
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: is being watched. Everything that he does is being watched.

708
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,840
Speaker 1: It brings me to the idea, do you think he

709
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 1: wanted to be caught? Caught Dave? Was he unburdening himself

710
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 1: some way?

711
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 3: Do you think there are a couple of things that

712
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 3: are said Joe in particular, when they were they being investigators,

713
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 3: they brought him in and they were talking because you

714
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:14,720
Speaker 3: got to remember, they have the incident where Whitney heard

715
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 3: called police to report a break in by Braxton, by

716
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 3: Brandon Braxton. They'd had other things involving Braxton at that address,

717
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 3: so he was the guy they went to and interviewed him.

718
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,879
Speaker 3: They interviewed him on July twenty fourth. You know, we're

719
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 3: talking what ten days after finding the body. Yeah, and

720
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 3: he was a person of interest. But they in their

721
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 3: interview with him, he said, yes, I've been inside Whitney's home. No,

722
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 3: I have not been in her car. So when he

723
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 3: says I'm making I make notes of this, Okay, he

724
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 3: tells police he has been inside her home, but never

725
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 3: in her car. They find his fingerprints inside Whitney's vehicle,

726
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,800
Speaker 3: phone records from the time in question reveal that Braxton

727
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,840
Speaker 3: was in the area at the suspected time of the murder,

728
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 3: and they're holding that information back to Again, I pointed

729
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 3: out last time anybody saw her July fourth, she's reported

730
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:19,320
Speaker 3: missing July eleventh. The private eye finds her on July fourteenth,

731
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:22,240
Speaker 3: that's our timetable. And somewhere in there.

732
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:24,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and to you know, kind of pair what we

733
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 1: had said earlier about fingerprints in this particular case, we

734
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 1: don't just physically have prints left behind by friction ridges

735
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:43,479
Speaker 1: on fingers, and now we have a DNA fingerprint. Oh

736
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 1: and by the bye, also a digital fingerprint. Either way

737
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 1: you look at it, the physical evidence and the digital evidence.

738
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 1: And oh, by the way, the note that was written

739
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:02,799
Speaker 1: by Braxton on March third, twenty twenty five, simply said

740
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 1: I killed Whitney heard. There will be more on this case.

741
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: We'll find out where the road leads and perhaps, just perhaps,

742
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 1: investigators will reveal more data in this ongoing investigation. I'm

743
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body by