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Speaker 1: Hey, Sminty listeners, Bridget here your favorite pisces. It's a

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Speaker 1: birthday coming up, and guess what, y'all are all invited.

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Speaker 1: I'm hosting a birthday party in Washington, d C on Sunday,

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Speaker 1: March eleven, to benefit Thrive d C, an organization that

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Speaker 1: fights homelessness. Want a party with me? All you need

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Speaker 1: to do is to bring a box of heavy flow

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Speaker 1: or overnight maxipads or tampons to donate to a d

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Speaker 1: C woman experiencing homelessness. Look out for more deats on

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Speaker 1: the Seminty Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram channels, and I hope

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Speaker 1: to see all there. Hey, this is Bridget and you're

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Speaker 1: listening to stuff mom ever told you? Now? Today we're

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Speaker 1: talking all about the women of Black Panther. No, I

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Speaker 1: don't mean Angela Davis, though that would make a great episode.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about the women of Wakonda. First, quick spoiler alert.

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Speaker 1: I don't think today's conversation will give away any major

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Speaker 1: plot aspects, but we'll be talking about the movie in full.

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Speaker 1: So if you want to go and fresh, just know

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Speaker 1: this might be an episode that you want to pause on.

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Speaker 1: Unless you even living under a rock, you probably already

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Speaker 1: know that Black Panther is a pretty big deal, but

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Speaker 1: first let's talk about Hollywood's landscape and why that is.

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Speaker 1: According to the Motion Picture Association of America, women made

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Speaker 1: up of all movie goers, an increase from which was

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Speaker 1: about so Even while conventional wisdom might suggest that women

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Speaker 1: aren't the ones buying tickets to big blockbuster movies, we

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Speaker 1: actually are, and that's one aspect that makes the disparity

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Speaker 1: of women on screen so frustrating. A lot of us

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Speaker 1: are buying movie tickets and wanting to see our stories

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Speaker 1: on the big screen. We just don't get that many

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Speaker 1: opportunities to do so. We already know that Hollywood is

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Speaker 1: pretty male and pretty white, but women and people of

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Speaker 1: color are thursting to see their own stories told on

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Speaker 1: the big screen. That was pretty clear when the movie

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Speaker 1: Wonder Woman smashed both the patriarchy and box office records,

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Speaker 1: breaking in a whopping one hundred point five million dollars

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Speaker 1: in ticket sales and going on to become the highest

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Speaker 1: grossing opening weekend for film directed by a woman, and

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Speaker 1: while it has a male director. The film Girl's Trip

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Speaker 1: also made history by being the only film to have

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Speaker 1: made a hundred million at the box office that was written, produced,

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Speaker 1: and directed by black talent and has a black female cast.

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Speaker 1: So it turns out, just like anyone else, marginalized voices

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Speaker 1: just want to see their stories reflected on screen. And

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Speaker 1: even though Black Panther has a male director, Ryan Coogler,

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Speaker 1: it's really given audience as a dynamic portrayal of badass

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Speaker 1: women on the big screen. In this movie, women kick ass.

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Speaker 1: They plan, they strategize, they lead, they fight with spears

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Speaker 1: and in some cases right on the tops of cars

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Speaker 1: down the busy streets of Korea. Slate Sasha Harris really

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Speaker 1: nailed why this movie feels so different. She writes, women

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Speaker 1: typically play third or fourth fiddle or just playing damsels

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Speaker 1: in distress in these movies, and more often than not,

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Speaker 1: with very rare exception of Black women played any real

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Speaker 1: part in these story is at all justice Wakanda is

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Speaker 1: an utopian symbol for Black people and it's depiction of

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Speaker 1: a nation relatively untouched by colonialism. So does it now

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Speaker 1: represent an ideal world in which men and women co

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Speaker 1: exist respectfully on an equal playing field. Let's hear from

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Speaker 1: some of the stars of the film about why the

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Speaker 1: roles of women are so different in Black Panther. We're

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Speaker 1: all very specific, very individual, very powerful in our own ways,

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Speaker 1: and um therefore very effective and influential. Seeing these women,

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Speaker 1: you know, seeing this dor Malagy and and sure you

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Speaker 1: know these women who who support him. He can't do

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Speaker 1: it without them, He can't. You know. There is no

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Speaker 1: king without a queen, you know. Is the is the thought,

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Speaker 1: the sentiment in African nations, you know. And so that

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Speaker 1: queen is his mother, his sister, the all female guard.

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Speaker 1: You know. After this quick break, we'll talk more about

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Speaker 1: the feminism of the movie Black Panther with General Wortham

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Speaker 1: hosted the podcast Still Processing and we're back. So after

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Speaker 1: I saw a Black Panther, all I wanted to do

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Speaker 1: was talk about the badass women in this film with

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Speaker 1: my friends. And when I think badass women, I think

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Speaker 1: none other than The New York Times is Jenna Wortham.

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Speaker 1: You might know Jenna as one of the co hosts

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Speaker 1: of the New York Times podcast Still Processing. She's also

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Speaker 1: a culture editor for The New York Times. And even

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Speaker 1: though I hate talking on the phone, I was so

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Speaker 1: excited to call Jenna up to get her thoughts. Here's

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Speaker 1: how that conversation went down. And if you're thinking, huh,

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Speaker 1: this sounds a bit weird. That's because full disclosure, here

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Speaker 1: listening to two gals talking on the phone in my apartment. Jenna,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here with us today.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited. So you

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Speaker 1: guys actually just put out an episode all about Black

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Speaker 1: Panther with the one and only Tanaissy Coats, which was fabulous.

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Speaker 1: If you haven't heard it, I would definitely recommend checking

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Speaker 1: it out. One of the things that I really identified

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Speaker 1: with in that conversation was how you talked about the

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Speaker 1: way at Black Panther. There was a lot of hoopla

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Speaker 1: surrounding it and a lot of hype, and in some

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Speaker 1: ways that can almost be a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: turn off. But then when you go see the movie,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's such a great movie. Um, why do

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Speaker 1: you think it is? That? A lot of times we

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Speaker 1: feel like if we don't go see a movie like

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Speaker 1: this on opening weekend and make a huge deal about it,

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Speaker 1: that we almost sort of won't be given another shot

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Speaker 1: at having our stories told on screen. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: because that's usually what happens, right, I mean, there are

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Speaker 1: so few of our stories, and by our I just

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Speaker 1: mean non mainstream, typical white narratives that end up making

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Speaker 1: it to the theaters that when there is something and

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Speaker 1: you know, we know these decisions are made by in

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Speaker 1: part influence by how much people spend on the movies,

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Speaker 1: how much people go to the movies. A lot of

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Speaker 1: movie trends are shaped by capitalism. So when there is

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Speaker 1: a big moment, there is a big movie, it feels like, yes,

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Speaker 1: we have to support it to make sure that other

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Speaker 1: movies like this are made. And I should clarify, And

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Speaker 1: when we were talking about the high, I was I

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Speaker 1: was all for the hype of Black Panther. I love

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Speaker 1: comic book movies. I see all the standalone ones like

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Speaker 1: I saw Logan in the theaters, like I love everything

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Speaker 1: about the comic book universes that have been cross It's

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Speaker 1: just it's a it's a form of storytelling that I

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Speaker 1: just really really enjoy on the big screen. But I

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Speaker 1: did kind of resent this idea that you know, each

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Speaker 1: and every single black person in America and around the

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Speaker 1: world had to support this movie or else it would

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Speaker 1: be our fault that it failed. No, it's not our

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Speaker 1: it wouldn't be our fault if it was terrible, you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's just not how it works. It shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be we only get one shot at a movie like

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Speaker 1: Black Panther. I just I really didn't like the idea

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Speaker 1: that we had to be street teaming this movie for

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Speaker 1: it to be successful. And the truth is that, honestly,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't really work. I mean, remember how much money

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Speaker 1: Hidden Figures made, like they're making a sequel or you know,

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Speaker 1: there's ten other movies like that in the pipeline. You know,

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Speaker 1: Hollywood makes the stories that wants to see, and it really,

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Speaker 1: you know, I wish I could say that they did

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Speaker 1: pay attention to that, but for the most part, it

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Speaker 1: seems like they don't. Yeah, on the one hand, it's

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Speaker 1: almost a lot of pressure for marginalized people to sort

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Speaker 1: of create these one person like, you know, personal ad

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Speaker 1: campaigns for these movies to get their friends to go

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Speaker 1: see it. I actually don't really like superhero movies, and

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Speaker 1: so when this first came out, I was like a

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Speaker 1: little bit man, not because it didn't seem like a

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Speaker 1: great movie, because it's not a genre that I personally enjoy,

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Speaker 1: but then I did feel this weird pull, like I

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Speaker 1: have to go see this movie. Opening weekend. I have

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Speaker 1: to support, you know, I have to go out and

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Speaker 1: get dressed up in a costume and go see it

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Speaker 1: because it felt like, you know, this is our thing,

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Speaker 1: we have to support it. And it's sort of it's

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Speaker 1: almost sort of not fair to feel like you have

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Speaker 1: to do that because I don't think that other I

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Speaker 1: don't think that white men feel that way when there's

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Speaker 1: a movie that that spotlights white men right here. No, totally.

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Speaker 1: And also the movies are so expensive, So I just

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Speaker 1: feel like this idea that someone that you know needs

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Speaker 1: to spend like a hundred dollars to take their families

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Speaker 1: and movies or else your child doesn't get a black

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Speaker 1: superhero is a really false equivalency. It's just totally unfair.

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Speaker 1: I totally agree with you, but I have to say

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Speaker 1: that because some people did respond to us speaking in

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Speaker 1: that way about the movie on the podcast that we

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Speaker 1: were super hyped for the movie. It was just this

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Speaker 1: idea that it's success rested on our individual backs, which again, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's totally um, I don't know, like out of pocket,

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Speaker 1: Like that's not fair. It's not fair. And another good

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Speaker 1: point that you make is I feel like every couple

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Speaker 1: of months this happens, right, there's a movie where you know,

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Speaker 1: whether it's girls trip or hidden figures like you mentioned

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Speaker 1: a second ago, there's a movie where people think, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: this movie was so successful. Clearly audiences are thirsting for

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Speaker 1: stories about people more than just white men. And we

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Speaker 1: had this conversation every few months when one of these

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Speaker 1: movies have Gangbusters and then we nothing ever happens. It's

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Speaker 1: still the same conversation, like we're stuck in this echo

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Speaker 1: chamber of this big movie with a with a inclusive

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Speaker 1: cast and inclusive crew, you know, doing really well, and

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Speaker 1: people thinking, oh, this is gonna change the game. And

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Speaker 1: then we had that same conversation in a month. For sure,

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Speaker 1: I'm really interested to see what happens with Coco. Coco

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Speaker 1: is more of an example that I'm interested in because

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Speaker 1: I feel like it wasn't It is a Pixar movie,

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Speaker 1: but it wasn't based It didn't it wasn't rooted in

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Speaker 1: some bigger franchise already or have any real roots to

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Speaker 1: it beyond just this original story that was created. And

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you've seen it, but Coco's this

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Speaker 1: incredible Pixar animated film about a little boy who reconnects

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Speaker 1: with his the spirits of the ancestors during the day

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Speaker 1: of dyd in Mexico, and a lot of movies in Spanish.

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Speaker 1: A lot of the songs through spanished. The soundtrack. Slaps

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Speaker 1: is one of the best movies I've ever seen. I

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Speaker 1: cried the whole time. That's definitely of my favorite movies

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Speaker 1: of the year. And it's a really beautiful celebration of

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Speaker 1: Mexican culture that we don't get. If you haven't seen Coco,

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Speaker 1: here's a little taste. Color is the Sky memo. You

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Speaker 1: tell me that it's read where shod I put no

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Speaker 1: more you say, flip the money ahead. And it made

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Speaker 1: so much money. It made so much money, which is

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Speaker 1: really interesting. We think about a lot of the policies

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Speaker 1: that our current administration is pushing right, which is to

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Speaker 1: get rid of people who this movie is for. So

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Speaker 1: I feel like that, to me feels like a much

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Speaker 1: more interesting case study. Because of course Marvel's gonna make

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Speaker 1: more Black Panthers and movies, and of course they're going

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Speaker 1: to make more super from that's been given just because

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Speaker 1: that's what they're doing, and those are the biggest blockbusters.

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Speaker 1: And I go international, but a movie like Coco, I feel,

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Speaker 1: is about such a marginalized group in this country that

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Speaker 1: we don't talk about, and for it to do so

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Speaker 1: well and be such a hit across genre, across demographic,

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Speaker 1: I feel I'll be so interested to see if that

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Speaker 1: translates to beyond just a one off case. Totally. I'm

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Speaker 1: so glad that you brought up Coco because in your

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Speaker 1: podcast episode about Black Panther, you talked about how we're

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Speaker 1: at a time where blackness can feel very attacked, and clearly,

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Speaker 1: like overtly being illness is under attack right now as well.

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Speaker 1: And so if you're someone who Sannis, someone who's an immigrant,

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Speaker 1: someone from a Spanish speaking country, it's interesting that a

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Speaker 1: movie like Coco that uplifts all of those different aspects

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Speaker 1: and uplifts the beauty of all of those different you know,

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Speaker 1: parts of your identity is doing so well right now

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Speaker 1: at a time when it seems like those very identities

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Speaker 1: are are under attack in a very real way. Exactly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So one of my biggest questions about movies like this,

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Speaker 1: I saw a lot of folks on Twitter being like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: it's just a movie, blah blah blah, But we know

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Speaker 1: that representation is really important. Why why is it so

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Speaker 1: important that we have films like Coco, films like Flat

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Speaker 1: Panther showing these different narratives and telling these different stories.

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Speaker 1: M Oh my god, I love that question. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it just makes you feel seen, you know, I don't

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Speaker 1: think we realize the lasting trauma and damage of not

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Speaker 1: seeing yourself on screen. Like I don't think you you

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Speaker 1: really understand what it meant to say your whole childhood

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Speaker 1: watching Buffy and small Ville and Ross Well and all

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Speaker 1: these really cool movies about you know, young team girls

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Speaker 1: with a special destiny and purpose who were really thin,

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Speaker 1: white cute hair that slipped perfectly, and the games of

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Speaker 1: Buffy summers, you know, like a perfect Midrid what's the actress?

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Speaker 1: His name against it escaped me? But um Sarah Michelle Geller, Yes,

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Speaker 1: Sarah'm still Geller. Oh my god, all my body worthya,

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Speaker 1: thank you? But now she's incredible. But I just, you know,

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Speaker 1: growing up watching that stuff, Like if I were a

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Speaker 1: team now and could watch Black Lightning, you know, like

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Speaker 1: I just might have a very different relationship to myself

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Speaker 1: my body. I was at a screening the other day

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Speaker 1: with um Avia Duvernet and she was showing us a

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Speaker 1: wrinkle of Time, and it was great because I thought

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Speaker 1: it was going to be this kind of stuffy up,

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Speaker 1: tight New York media thing and it was all kids.

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Speaker 1: He's like, rents out the theater for all these black

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Speaker 1: girls and it was awesome. And she was saying, you know,

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Speaker 1: with the wrinkle in time for example, she was like, yes,

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Speaker 1: the reason it matters is it's not just about little girls,

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Speaker 1: little black girls seeing themselves on screen. It's about white

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Speaker 1: boys learning to work with black women and trust them

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Speaker 1: and respect them and see them as nerds. And I

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Speaker 1: was like, WHOA, Like I had never really thought about

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Speaker 1: how important it is not just for us, but for

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Speaker 1: everyone else around us to understand that they aren't at

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Speaker 1: the center of every story. I mean, that's that's like

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Speaker 1: the biggest takeaway that I've really been chewing over the

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Speaker 1: last couple of days. It is about us, but it's

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Speaker 1: also about other people being able to see us in

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Speaker 1: these roles too. But it's so deep because you know

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Speaker 1: what you just said, if you can't see it on screen,

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Speaker 1: you can't really be it. And so of course it's

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Speaker 1: important for little black and brown girls to see themselves,

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Speaker 1: but it's also important for little white boys and white men,

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Speaker 1: to understand that, you know, young girls, that women and

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Speaker 1: girls of color have agency, you know, are equals, and

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Speaker 1: to learn how to see and work with them, whether

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Speaker 1: it's you know, in a movie or behind the scenes

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Speaker 1: of the movie. I think showing that on screen and

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Speaker 1: presenting those models, I think it's really an important aspect

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Speaker 1: that I hadn't even really considered. Oh yeah, for sure,

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Speaker 1: same here though, Like she said it, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, like, of course, you know totally. So

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Speaker 1: let's talk about some of the roles for women, the

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Speaker 1: women of Wakanda. Um. One of the things I thought

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Speaker 1: was so cool about how women are portrayed in Black

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Speaker 1: Panther is that you don't get the sense that there's

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Speaker 1: some sort of gender based hierarchy in Wakanda. Right. The

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Speaker 1: women have these bad, fast roles, whether they're fighting, whether

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Speaker 1: they're known for their technical prowess, and you don't get

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Speaker 1: the sense that women are treated as these frail objects.

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Speaker 1: There seem to be on the same decision making plank

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Speaker 1: of men. Did you notice this, Yeah, I think that's fair.

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Speaker 1: I think that's what they wanted us to think in

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Speaker 1: the movie. I mean, I'll believe that if I I mean, no, no,

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Speaker 1: just just knowing that it's based on a comic book,

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Speaker 1: like it's it's not it's not Wonder Woman, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's Black Panther and the Black Panther, you know,

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Speaker 1: tradtioning the living age at that comic, the black panther

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Speaker 1: role is pretty much always amazed. I mean, I know

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Speaker 1: there is a comic, and there is in the reimagine

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Speaker 1: that Tana Hasky Coast work heap Coast has been working on. Sure,

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Speaker 1: he who's to tell his little sister at some point

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Speaker 1: does become Black Pantherer, but only temporarily. So I'm you know,

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Speaker 1: and in my super feminist lens, I'm like, sure, it's

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Speaker 1: great that the women seem like equal, but they're on council,

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Speaker 1: they're serving as cigars, they're serving as technicians. Those are

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Speaker 1: not necessarily leader roles. I mean, they're not the leader,

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Speaker 1: their leadership roles, but they're not leading wacondas. So I

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Speaker 1: think for me, I'm kind of like if they were like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know, as La Bassett was less less pancer, that

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Speaker 1: would be tight, Like I'd be like, oh yeah, but

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Speaker 1: it was to tell his dad. So I'm kind of

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Speaker 1: like sure, but to me, it's still feels the women

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Speaker 1: might be more equal, but it's still felt a little patriarchal.

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Speaker 1: And I don't wanted to finish how badass all the

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Speaker 1: women were in the movie. They definitely were, but it

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Speaker 1: wasn't as like aprituturistic in that way for me. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that makes a lot of sense. I think it really

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Speaker 1: goes to show how far we have to go because

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Speaker 1: you know what I call me when they make a

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Speaker 1: Black Pancer, that a woman, and that's a woman the

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Speaker 1: entire time. It like like when Angel Nassett sund time

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Speaker 1: to play the character, like the pits of the role.

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Speaker 1: That's the movie that I'm the you know, completely be

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Speaker 1: here for. And not that I wasn't here for Black Panther,

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Speaker 1: but that would be to be really really bad and

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Speaker 1: to be fair, like, I actually think it's coming, and

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Speaker 1: this was the first movie, so I think there is

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Speaker 1: a lot to do and I think they're willing to

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Speaker 1: do it, Like I've never gotten the impression that they

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Speaker 1: wouldn't explore. And you know, there is a lot of

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Speaker 1: the movie that we saw was based on some of

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Speaker 1: the World of Will kind of comics that have been

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Speaker 1: rewritten and sure he is a black Panther in them,

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Speaker 1: and so I just think it's so possible. And you know,

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Speaker 1: there was the news that Marvel signed on to do

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Speaker 1: like ten more movies, and so like everyone's speculating, well,

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Speaker 1: how many of those are Black Panther spinoffs? And I

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Speaker 1: actually think that the response the Door Malaje, which is

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Speaker 1: all woman guard that um particual contents Chila, I think

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Speaker 1: that they might get there spin off movie. I mean,

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Speaker 1: anything is possible. The number of movies that are being

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Speaker 1: made right now that deal in those two d C

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Speaker 1: comics memorable universes are just astounding because they do tend

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Speaker 1: to make so much money. So I kind of feel

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Speaker 1: like it's not out of the realm of possibility at all,

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Speaker 1: and it would be it would be so baller if, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, Lupeta has a filmmaking company now, like maybe

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Speaker 1: she could produce one, you know, maybe then I can

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Speaker 1: do it. But that and I has an incredible playwright.

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Speaker 1: You know, she wrote a clip. So I just think

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Speaker 1: there does seem to be way more possibilities than there

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Speaker 1: haven't been. So I'm not trying to knock it at all.

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Speaker 1: I'm really excited to see what they do next. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it kind of opens up the door to the future

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Speaker 1: of what what will be and I'm I'm really excited

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Speaker 1: to see what Black Panther leads to down the line. Yes, exactly, exactly.

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Speaker 1: So you brought up the character of Sure, she's one

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Speaker 1: of my favorite characters in the movie because she's sort

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Speaker 1: of spunky and she bucks tradition and I'm I'm a

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Speaker 1: youngest sister and it's very interesting to see the sort

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Speaker 1: of spunky little sister role on screen. You don't really

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Speaker 1: have a lot of motally that play with the brother

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Speaker 1: sister dynamic in quite that way, which I which I love.

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Speaker 1: And of course I love that she is the like

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Speaker 1: the technology officer of Wakanda. She's the one who you know,

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Speaker 1: knows the latest stuff. She knows how to make the

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Speaker 1: really cool shoes and like really cool suit and I

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Speaker 1: couldn't help but think about, um, this amazing black woman

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Speaker 1: astronaut made Jemison her talking about how when she was

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Speaker 1: a kid, she didn't really think that she could be

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Speaker 1: a black female astronaut until she saw the character on

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Speaker 1: Star Trek when she was a kid, and that that

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Speaker 1: character had a I don't know if we ever watched it,

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Speaker 1: but she was a lieutenant, you know, she had a

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Speaker 1: really technical role on the ship, and Big Demison actually

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Speaker 1: credits her with the reason why she thought she could

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Speaker 1: become an astronaut, which she later did, and sexual went

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Speaker 1: on to be on the show Star Trek and a

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Speaker 1: guest role. And so it's interesting where I can't help

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Speaker 1: but wonder how many little girls are watching this spunky

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Speaker 1: girl with her cute raids, you know, lead technology for

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Speaker 1: a Nassan and think I can do that. I know,

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Speaker 1: it's so exciting and it's you know, it's real because

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Speaker 1: sometimes we don't even know what's possible and pale glimpse it.

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Speaker 1: And I just mean that even that there could be

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Speaker 1: a job like that. I mean, so much of what

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Speaker 1: we know is she roy AA have access to it.

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Speaker 1: Allays access to is very much guided by popular culture

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Speaker 1: and whatever is trending, and so in order to be

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Speaker 1: able to see yourself, Yeah, it's someone who works on

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Speaker 1: a ship, or works on who builds cars or build whatever.

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Speaker 1: It's like someone who designed the infrastructure. It's like you

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Speaker 1: see that and then you're like, oh, could I do that?

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Speaker 1: How do I do that? What's that job? I mean

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Speaker 1: that's even how I became a journalist, Like I didn't really.

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Speaker 1: I mean, obviously I knew that people wrote for a living,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't know how people wrote for a living.

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Speaker 1: I was like, you can you even do that freelance?

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Speaker 1: You have to be an author? Do you have to

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Speaker 1: be this? And then it was in the course of

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Speaker 1: setting abroad and I was actually doing a program in

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Speaker 1: um public health in London and I started meeting authors

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Speaker 1: and I was like, so, what is your day to

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Speaker 1: day like? And they laid it out for me and

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I could do that. I mean

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Speaker 1: it literally as simple as that, Like I just you know,

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Speaker 1: if I had been smarter, I would have googled, like

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Speaker 1: how to become an author? But that still isn't even

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Speaker 1: necessarily enough. It's like you really have to see it

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Speaker 1: and here it and understand what that looks like in

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Speaker 1: order to visualize yourself in It absolutely funny that you

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Speaker 1: say that my my sort of becoming a journalist and

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Speaker 1: a writer and immediate person is similar but much less

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Speaker 1: cool than your story. When I was a kid, I

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Speaker 1: used to watch that show Living Single and Queen the

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Speaker 1: Teeth of Character Favor magazine, and I thought you that

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's so good. Yes, incredible. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: wonder Similarly, I bet an entire generation of black women

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Speaker 1: and girls were like, oh, I knew I wanted it

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Speaker 1: to be immediate professional when I saw that show. It's

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Speaker 1: so important, this representation is so important. So I have

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Speaker 1: one last question for you. It's a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a curveball. So I went to see Black Panther and

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Speaker 1: I wore a ridiculous outfit because I felt like, that's

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Speaker 1: kind of what you do. I kind of gave into

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Speaker 1: all the hoop. I was like, well, if I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: do it, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna wear something. Cookie,

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Speaker 1: did you wear a cool outfit? I had so much pressure.

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Speaker 1: I felt so much pressure going to see it because

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Speaker 1: I was like, what am I gonna wear? Like everyone's

426
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,200
Speaker 1: going to dress up, but people were instagramming their cool

427
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,480
Speaker 1: office and Kimberly Drew was one of my really good

428
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,119
Speaker 1: friends and one of my collaborators, instagrammed her outfit. It

429
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:13,119
Speaker 1: was like this amazing matrix like late TEXTI and I

430
00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,440
Speaker 1: was like, damn it, Like I don't have anything to wear.

431
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:17,840
Speaker 1: So I just this is a very long way to

432
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,800
Speaker 1: say I tried to look good, but I don't know

433
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,040
Speaker 1: that I looked necessarily cool. When I went to the

434
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:26,560
Speaker 1: starning the media screening, I just wore a regular smuggler

435
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,240
Speaker 1: clothes and then I went to the premiere, I just

436
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,000
Speaker 1: tried to like have good eye makeup on, do you

437
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:32,160
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like, I was just like, let

438
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,000
Speaker 1: me put some glinner on because this is the best

439
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:35,840
Speaker 1: I can do. And people people showed it up and

440
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,119
Speaker 1: they showed out, and I was I was sad to

441
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 1: be a little a little under stressed. I have to

442
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 1: in it. Well, I think you went out, you supported it.

443
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,439
Speaker 1: I'm sure you looked great. I kind of assume as

444
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,159
Speaker 1: like I went to a weird screening. I went to

445
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,119
Speaker 1: see it in Georgetown and Washington, DC, and it was

446
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,440
Speaker 1: a very early morning screening and so perhaps not the

447
00:21:54,520 --> 00:22:01,520
Speaker 1: screening where people would be dressed to impress totally. Well, Jenna,

448
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:03,239
Speaker 1: I am so happy that you were able to join

449
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:05,639
Speaker 1: us today. Where can folks find out more of what

450
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:07,600
Speaker 1: you're up do? I know that you kind of do

451
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,920
Speaker 1: it all, from black goods to podcasting. Where can folks

452
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,119
Speaker 1: find out what you're up to? Um? Well, my social

453
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 1: handle across pretty much everything is at Jenny Deluxe and

454
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 1: for the podcast, it's ny Times dot Com Forward Slash

455
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 1: Still Processing. Jenna, thank you so much for being here

456
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 1: with us today, Wakonda Forever. Oh, it's such a pleasure.

457
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:31,600
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. So we already know that

458
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 1: the women of Wakonda had a huge impact on the

459
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 1: big screen, But what about I r l more on

460
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 1: that after this quick break and we're back. One of

461
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 1: the coolest things about Black Panther is that even though

462
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 1: it's this amazing fantasy movie, it's also had some real

463
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 1: world implications. You heard Jenna and I talking with the

464
00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 1: character of Shari played by the t Right, who's one

465
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 1: of the movie the most important characters, and she's this

466
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 1: badass black woman in Stem. She is in charge of

467
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 1: all the technology of the world of Waconda. She's very hip,

468
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,239
Speaker 1: she bucks tradition, and at only sixteen, she's among the

469
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 1: smartest in the nation of Wakonda and directs all the

470
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,120
Speaker 1: tech development in this advanced nation, including weaponry and armor.

471
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 1: And even though she's a fictional character, sure he has

472
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 1: gone on to become an inspiration for black girls in Stem.

473
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 1: Disney donated one million dollars to boys and girls clubs

474
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 1: across the country to operate STEM centers, including what in Oakland, California,

475
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,679
Speaker 1: where spoiler alert if you've seen the movie you already

476
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,119
Speaker 1: know sure, he ends up running Waconda's first tech outread center.

477
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 1: So when we're talking about Wakonda, life really imitates art

478
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 1: and beyond that, some real life Wakondon women warriors are

479
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 1: using Black Panther to create change I r L. They

480
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 1: spun up the Waconda The Vote Campaign, an initiative that

481
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 1: let's folks set up voter registration events at local theaters

482
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 1: or registrative vote via text message. The initiative is run

483
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 1: by Jessica Bird, who runs Three Point Strategies, a firm

484
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:02,359
Speaker 1: of black women who worked to elect black political leaders

485
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,159
Speaker 1: and create social change. Jessica, I'm so happy to have

486
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: you here today. So I have to ask, why is

487
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 1: it important for you to get folks registered to vote

488
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 1: at the movies and they're seeing Black Panther well. So

489
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,679
Speaker 1: UM three Point Strategies is currently UM anchoring and co

490
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,639
Speaker 1: leading the Electoral Justice Project, which is a project that

491
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 1: was launched by the Movement for Black Lives just this

492
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:29,120
Speaker 1: past October, and essentially the idea it was to really

493
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:33,880
Speaker 1: harness the energy of black led social movements UM, who

494
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 1: have historically used protests and direct action and UM you know,

495
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 1: other means of intervention to interrupt systems. And so we

496
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,479
Speaker 1: believe that the electoral system is as a system just

497
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: like any other, and so we are launching this project

498
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 1: specifically to intervene in a system that doesn't work for us,

499
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: which is currently the electoral system. And so, you know,

500
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 1: for us, we didn't want to build a project that

501
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 1: was just three actionary and UM only in opposition, but

502
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 1: we wanted to brail a project that also felt like

503
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 1: it centered black joy. And so as people started to

504
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 1: get really excited about Black Panther and we heard about

505
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 1: people outfits that they were going to be wearing, and

506
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,679
Speaker 1: you know this just how much it seemed like a

507
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,440
Speaker 1: cultural phenomenon, we were like, we definitely need to do

508
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 1: something for the movement for black lives. And so that

509
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,439
Speaker 1: is how what kind of the vote was born. I

510
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 1: love that. I especially love this idea of harnessing the

511
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: power of black joy because you know, I went to

512
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 1: Black Panther dressed kind of goofy. Other folks I saw

513
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: on Instagram where dressed kind of goofy. It was a fun, funny, memorable,

514
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 1: Instagram morble kind of event for the ages. And I

515
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 1: think it's it's something, there's something too harnessing that energy

516
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:53,919
Speaker 1: because listen, blackness is not just about the heavy, intense moments.

517
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 1: It's also about fun, about joy, about those experiences that

518
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: connect us with our brothers and sisters and you know,

519
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 1: really hardest thing on that special Yeah. Absolutely. And you know,

520
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: I also think that you know, um, so often folks

521
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 1: in power, which are often white people, white men, folks

522
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 1: with money. You know, they always get to have a

523
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: self you know, determined political agenda. They always get to

524
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: build strategy on based on what they're dreaming about and

525
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: what they want. And you know, so black people we

526
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,640
Speaker 1: want to do the same thing. Not everything that we

527
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: do it should be about our death. We're about the

528
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,120
Speaker 1: fact that we have to turn up because you are

529
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 1: taking healthcare away from millions of people, or because you're

530
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: breaking up millions of families UM through racist, hateful laws.

531
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 1: Like we we also have a vision for how we

532
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 1: want our our families UM and our communities to look.

533
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: And so you know, I think that part of this

534
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 1: project is to do both at the same time. Which

535
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 1: we think is possible, which is to fight back, is

536
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: to tell our opposition that their time is limited and

537
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: that we're gonna we're gonna contend them for power. But

538
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:04,919
Speaker 1: then I also think it's the time for us to

539
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: really be dreaming and innovative with black people about saying,

540
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,880
Speaker 1: all right, so we have this beautiful vision for black lives,

541
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 1: how do we actually elect the right people, right the

542
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 1: right policies and build the the type of um of

543
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: cultural civic engagement that we really deserve. I love it.

544
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 1: So what's next for a kind of the vote? Oh,

545
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: it's great. So, um, Well, first and foremost, I just

546
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: want to name that we have registered nearly five thousand

547
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:39,120
Speaker 1: voters over the course of three weeks. Uh, We've had

548
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 1: a hundred and sixty three voter registration drives in every

549
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: single state in this entire country. Um. And so we

550
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: feel really proud about the way that black movement is

551
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,959
Speaker 1: demonstrating that not only can you know, we show up

552
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,400
Speaker 1: for these for these moments when we need to fight back,

553
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: but that we also can have a lot of fun

554
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 1: and really respond to waste specifically engaged. And so what's

555
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: next is that actually today launches wrinkle the vote. UM,

556
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 1: and so you know, not only did we want to

557
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 1: honor this really beautiful black film experience, but you know,

558
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: we believe that Abra Durnier um in building this really

559
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 1: beautiful women of color lead and centered film for Wrinkle

560
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: in Time was also a moment for us to like

561
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: continue this strategy and like re engage people and young

562
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: women who were going to the theater. So, and we'll

563
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: be registering voters all this weekend and then um, the

564
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: Electoral Justice Project is also launching and organizing fellowships and

565
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: so we if you if you check out e JP

566
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: dot m for bl dot org, um, you can find

567
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: out more about how to potentially become a campaign manager

568
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: for an issue in your community that you want to

569
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 1: fight and went on. I love it using the power

570
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 1: of Hollywood and fiction and storytelling to create real change

571
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: on the world. I love that. Jessica, You're amazing. Your

572
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 1: work is amazing. Where can folks keep up with you? Well,

573
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: so you can follow me on Twitter at Jessica l

574
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: Berg b y R d UM. Obviously we'd love for

575
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: you to um check out the Electoral Justice Projects. So again,

576
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 1: that's e J P dot M for v L dot org.

577
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: And right now, if you text E J p to,

578
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,479
Speaker 1: you'll be caught up on our email list and our

579
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: text messaging list, so you can keep up with all

580
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 1: of the incredible projects that we plan to lead on

581
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: this this year and hopefully in November, well we'll see

582
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: some electoral justice. Well sminthy listeners, we want to hear

583
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: from you. Did you go see Black Panther? Did you

584
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: dress as ridiculously as I did to go see it?

585
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 1: What were your thoughts? Did you like it? Not like it?

586
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: We want to know. Find us on Twitter at mom

587
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 1: Stuff podcast, on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You,

588
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: and as always, shoot us an email at mom stuff,

589
00:29:55,600 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com. I sat