WEBVTT - Ep. 535: The Fight to Save Hunting

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<v Speaker 1>This is the meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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<v Speaker 1>bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listeningcast, you can't

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<v Speaker 2>E dot com. Hey, everybody, listen up. I got I

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<v Speaker 2>got mega huge news. Me Eater Live is heading back

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<v Speaker 2>out on the road. That's right, Join me and the

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<v Speaker 2>crew talking Clay newcom cal Yannie, Spencer's gonna be there, Phil,

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<v Speaker 2>Phil the engineer is gonna be there. Meet it or

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<v Speaker 2>Live headed back out now. When you get every ticket, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>every ticket you buy, you get a signed copy of

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<v Speaker 2>our new me Eater Outdoor Cookbook. This tour is celebrating

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<v Speaker 2>the release of the book. Buy a ticket, get a

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<v Speaker 2>signed copy Memeter Outdoor Cookbook. Wild Game recipes for the

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<v Speaker 2>grill smoker, campstoven campfire, which I'll point out is a

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<v Speaker 2>thirty eight dollars value. Here's where we're gonna go. April

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<v Speaker 2>twenty third, the Masa Arts Center in Mesa, Arizona, April

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<v Speaker 2>twenty four, The Balboa Theater in San Diego April twenty five,

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<v Speaker 2>The Grove in Anaheim, California, April twenty seven, The Crest

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<v Speaker 2>Theater and Sacramento April twenty nine, The Union in Salt

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<v Speaker 2>Lake City April thirty, The Egyptian in Boise May one,

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<v Speaker 2>The Wilma Theater in Missoula May two, The Bing Crosby

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<v Speaker 2>Theater in Spokane, Washington. May four, Revolution Hall in Portland, Oregon,

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<v Speaker 2>and May five, the last day of the tour, Pantagious

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<v Speaker 2>Theater in Tacoma, Washington. For ticket some more information, visit

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<v Speaker 2>the events page at themeeater dot com. We're not coming

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<v Speaker 2>to your neck of the woods, and you still want

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<v Speaker 2>to get your hands on a signed copy of our

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<v Speaker 2>new Me Eater Outdoor Cookbook, go to Signed Outdoor Cookbook

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<v Speaker 2>dot com or check out Barnes.

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<v Speaker 3>And Noble Online. Hope to see you at the show.

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<v Speaker 3>Welcome everybody.

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<v Speaker 2>We got two shows in one today because we're joined

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<v Speaker 2>by Dan Gates to talk about what's going on the topic,

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<v Speaker 2>as Krin wrote, it is what's going on in Colorado.

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<v Speaker 2>We're gonna get into what's going on in Colorado, which

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<v Speaker 2>if you're at Colorado, how do you.

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<v Speaker 3>Like to say that, Brody Coloradin, you're a.

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<v Speaker 2>Colorado you especially want to stay tuned. But if you're

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<v Speaker 2>just a general American, you'll want to stay tuned as well,

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<v Speaker 2>because what we're gonna talk about going on in Colorado

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<v Speaker 2>has implications for what's going on in America.

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<v Speaker 3>So stay tuned for that. But first the first part

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<v Speaker 3>of the show.

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<v Speaker 2>And then we're gonna we're gonna hear, We're gonna hear

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit from Jannis about a recent adventure. Ryan

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<v Speaker 2>Callahan's here, Brody Henderson's here. Randall, Doctor Randall's here with

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<v Speaker 2>a brain, new hair, been cutting his own hair, yep,

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<v Speaker 2>learned how to cut his own hair.

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<v Speaker 4>Learning to cut my own learning.

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<v Speaker 5>Because he's gonna take us through that process step by step.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, we're actually doing a video series.

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<v Speaker 5>I love that.

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<v Speaker 2>And uh, the star of the show part one, Remember

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<v Speaker 2>I said this is two shows and one. The star

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<v Speaker 2>of show part one is Connor Smith.

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<v Speaker 3>How old are you? Connor?

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<v Speaker 6>Sixteen?

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<v Speaker 2>Sixteen? Connor Smith's sixteen years old. His mother, Alyssa, is

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<v Speaker 2>a colleague of ours, and he I've been hearing about.

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<v Speaker 3>This killed himself a big old bull.

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<v Speaker 7>Yeah it's uh.

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<v Speaker 2>At a Christmas party. Your mom showed me a picture

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<v Speaker 2>of it. And normally people are showing me pictures of

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<v Speaker 2>big bulls. That's just in one ear and out the other.

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<v Speaker 2>But I took note because one because you're her kid

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<v Speaker 2>and not like the neighbor's cousin's friend, which is a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of the big bulls you see, And two because

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<v Speaker 2>you kind of you did it real scrap you, like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>thirty ninth biggest bull ever killed in Montana?

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<v Speaker 7>About Yeah, what do you mean about might get kicked out?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, you're gonna get kicked out.

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<v Speaker 7>My dad wants to shoot one bigger than me.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, I thought you meant there was a like a

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<v Speaker 3>legal problem you were faced with or something like it

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<v Speaker 3>wasn't seasoned or something.

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<v Speaker 2>No, oh, so you're legit. Okay, tell me now. You

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<v Speaker 2>were telling me the story earlier, and I cut you

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<v Speaker 2>off because you got to the part about your guns

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<v Speaker 2>stopping working, and that's not a thing I usually hear

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<v Speaker 2>about firearms. So how did your tell me your gun

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<v Speaker 2>lay out?

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<v Speaker 8>Here?

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<v Speaker 7>Well, I had a three hundred that where we have

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<v Speaker 7>two three hundreds, one that my grand we were both

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<v Speaker 7>my grandfather gave me and so.

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<v Speaker 2>Your parents are tight. Yeah, you got two old grandpa guns.

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<v Speaker 2>M hm okay, I'm picturing.

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<v Speaker 7>And uh the first one I've been using for a

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<v Speaker 7>couple of years now. It's like I don't know how

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<v Speaker 7>old it is, but we brought it to the shooting

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<v Speaker 7>range and it just kept shooting like inconsistently. Got it like,

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<v Speaker 7>I think there's something wrong with the chambering. That's what

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<v Speaker 7>my grandfather kept keeps telling me.

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<v Speaker 3>Mm hmmm. So it's deep within the bowels of the gun.

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<v Speaker 3>It's not like a loose scope mount or something.

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<v Speaker 7>Yeah, and uh yeah, a week before the hunt, I

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<v Speaker 7>had a change to my dad's that's not my granddad's.

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<v Speaker 7>That's not my dad's, and then I used that.

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<v Speaker 3>For the hunt. So these are three hundred wind bags. Yeah, okay,

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<v Speaker 3>I got it. So then you got tuned in and I'd.

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<v Speaker 5>Probably call it like yours now because it's not like

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<v Speaker 5>anybody else wants to use that gun, because it's like

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<v Speaker 5>you got the biggest ball with it.

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<v Speaker 8>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, maybe it's got good mojo so jiju whatever that

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<v Speaker 4>might be.

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<v Speaker 5>It does, but it might just be connors.

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<v Speaker 2>So gramps passes down one gun to you and one

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<v Speaker 2>gun to his kid, your dad. Yeah okay, and then

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<v Speaker 2>you get the one that Graham's now thinks is shoddy,

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<v Speaker 2>so you take the old man's gun.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah okay. And then you got to have a spot

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<v Speaker 3>where you're going hunting. So it taught me through that.

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<v Speaker 3>Don't give me the spot, but like, tell me through

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<v Speaker 3>your your process here.

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<v Speaker 7>Well, I've going into last year. I had three points

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<v Speaker 7>and my dad put me in for a special pull

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<v Speaker 7>elk tag.

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<v Speaker 3>And I got your three bonus points.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, eleven chance odds.

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<v Speaker 3>You see, Cow's getting excited now.

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<v Speaker 2>Cal likes any story about youngsters with lots of points

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<v Speaker 2>drawing sweet tags man.

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<v Speaker 9>Taking opportunities away from him.

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<v Speaker 3>That's his favorite. That's his absolute favorite genre of saying no.

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<v Speaker 5>But you know, talking uh, talking with your mother. I

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<v Speaker 5>know that the family puts some sweat equity in out there.

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<v Speaker 3>So it wasn't just told, okay, continue on.

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<v Speaker 5>His dad was dragging him out of like banned class

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<v Speaker 5>that he'd rather be at because his dad did all

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<v Speaker 5>the work.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeah, alright, so just okay, I'm sorry to me.

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<v Speaker 3>Interre up. So you got you got into a special unit.

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<v Speaker 7>Yeah, and uh, I like got home from school one

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<v Speaker 7>day and.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, back, you didn't do any scouting or anything.

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<v Speaker 6>Well, we've been scouting out there before.

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<v Speaker 7>And uh, I got home and my dad showed me

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<v Speaker 7>the draw odds and I drew the tag.

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<v Speaker 3>Gotcha okay?

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<v Speaker 5>And roughly what were the odds of you drawing the tag?

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<v Speaker 7>Do you remember?

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<v Speaker 8>Got it?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah? So it's the area you're you're familiar with, very

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<v Speaker 3>familiar with. Oh, how's this? Are you very familiar?

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<v Speaker 6>We've been hunting out there a couple of times.

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<v Speaker 3>So family members have drawn, well.

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<v Speaker 7>Not really, just we've been like shed hunting out there

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<v Speaker 7>and like scouting for an out tag.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, just pre scout, just in case, just getting familiar

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<v Speaker 3>with the area. Yeah, got okay, Okay, So then what happens?

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<v Speaker 7>Uh, Well, we scouted all the summer through the summer

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<v Speaker 7>spring and all that.

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<v Speaker 3>And they kept going up there and checking in on it.

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<v Speaker 7>Yeah exactly, And we found a couple of sheds and yeah,

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<v Speaker 7>going into the season, we went a couple of days

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<v Speaker 7>before and we saw a bowl, a really nice ball.

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<v Speaker 7>It was a big five point actually, and uh we

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<v Speaker 7>scouted him, put him to the bed and waited for

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<v Speaker 7>the morning opening morning, and we woke up that morning.

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<v Speaker 5>Did you have a goal? It's like, how big of

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<v Speaker 5>a bull you're looking for?

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<v Speaker 7>Basically the first solid bull I found he killed.

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<v Speaker 6>Before before I've killed two bulls and one cow?

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<v Speaker 3>Sweet? What ye doing?

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<v Speaker 5>What regular?

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<v Speaker 7>Just regular hunting?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, and did any of those come uh during the

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<v Speaker 5>youth season when you could?

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<v Speaker 3>There's no youth elk Oh, it's just deer, birds and turkeys, dude.

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<v Speaker 3>If there's a youth olt, yeah, I know.

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<v Speaker 8>I have more kids.

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<v Speaker 5>That's why I would have.

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<v Speaker 3>Never gotten the vast ectomy.

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<v Speaker 8>Yeah, I have to have them on.

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<v Speaker 5>Pot coached you up properly on on how these conversations

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<v Speaker 5>can go and how not to give away your landmarks.

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<v Speaker 5>And he's doing super good.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I got nothing to go off. Well, no, I

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<v Speaker 2>do three points eleven percent odd. It's a real sharp feller.

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<v Speaker 2>I shouldn't have pointed that out.

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<v Speaker 8>Yeah, you've done more.

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<v Speaker 2>Someone real sharp on math with a sharp pencil. Gone

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<v Speaker 2>and blueball ad out Phil.

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<v Speaker 7>We Uh we watched this bowl at all?

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<v Speaker 6>Opening?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, we watched it. Why not go get it because

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<v Speaker 3>you're just holding off.

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<v Speaker 7>Yeah, there was some other competition in the area too,

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<v Speaker 7>Just like there's a lot of like ravines and stuff

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<v Speaker 7>that these both this elk herd could have gone there.

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<v Speaker 7>So we just watched them and we're trying to watch

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<v Speaker 7>where they were going to go.

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<v Speaker 9>So he was with that, He wasn't solo, he was

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<v Speaker 9>with other out.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, what's competition made from hunters?

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<v Speaker 6>Hunters?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I see, okay, and uh.

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<v Speaker 6>We watched these bulls.

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<v Speaker 7>We like rushed this bowl and like this group of cows,

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<v Speaker 7>and we watched them for a little bit, ran over

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<v Speaker 7>to like where we thought they were going to come

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<v Speaker 7>out at. And uh and you're hunting with your old man, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 7>is gramps there?

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<v Speaker 6>No, just my dad and my little brother.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay and uh little brothers how old he is?

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<v Speaker 6>Fourteen thirteen?

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<v Speaker 3>Much help?

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<v Speaker 6>He's a little a little bit.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, yeah, don't feel bad about not knowing ages. I

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<v Speaker 5>just give a height on most most younger folks.

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<v Speaker 7>So yeah, and uh, we watched these out come out

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<v Speaker 7>of this like ravine. I think the first opportunity I

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<v Speaker 7>had was that like five hundred and twenty three yards

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<v Speaker 7>at this five point.

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<v Speaker 3>You're so precise and know exactly where he was.

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<v Speaker 6>Watched them. We watched him for a little bit.

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<v Speaker 7>I thought I could get closer and he ended up

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<v Speaker 7>going into the timber out of sight. So we had

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<v Speaker 7>to wrap around and see if we could find him again.

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<v Speaker 7>And we we didn't know where they went, and we

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<v Speaker 7>thought they crossed the way and stuff, and we kind

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<v Speaker 7>of just walked around and we heard a bugle. M

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<v Speaker 7>heard a bugle like maybe fifty yards from us, and

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<v Speaker 7>what time of day it's about.

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<v Speaker 6>It was about like maybe seven eight.

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<v Speaker 3>Ish fifty yards away.

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<v Speaker 7>Yeah, and uh, they definitely spooked because we heard some

0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:44.800
<v Speaker 7>running in the trees and stuff.

0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:47.240
<v Speaker 2>And also maybe the kyles spooks and that made the

0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:50.760
<v Speaker 2>bull bugle because he's like, where's everybody going kind of thing, okay.

0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:53.719
<v Speaker 7>And uh, we kind of just followed those tracks up

0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:59.319
<v Speaker 7>this little this little hillside and we topped the ridge

0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:01.360
<v Speaker 7>and there was just a bowl like in the middle

0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:05.000
<v Speaker 7>of like all these trees. There's like one open patch and.

0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:06.840
<v Speaker 5>Just a ball or just the bull.

0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:10.320
<v Speaker 3>The bull all right, not the five point not the

0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:12.920
<v Speaker 3>five point whole different bawl, Yeah, a whole different didn't

0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:14.120
<v Speaker 3>know you know about him, but he's the one that

0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:17.000
<v Speaker 3>ripped a bugle probably presumably.

0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:19.520
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, we don't know. And just like in the middle

0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:22.600
<v Speaker 7>of like this all these trees. There's like one little

0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:26.880
<v Speaker 7>open patch of like grass and stuff. And he was

0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:30.440
<v Speaker 7>just standing there and I told my uh my dad

0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:32.600
<v Speaker 7>and my little brother to get down, and.

0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:35.160
<v Speaker 3>You told them to get down. Yeah they spotted it.

0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:36.240
<v Speaker 6>Yeah they didn't see it.

0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:42.720
<v Speaker 3>Humh okay, and uh yeah, he kept had to feel good.

0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:44.040
<v Speaker 6>He tried to keep walking.

0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:44.960
<v Speaker 7>He didn't.

0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:46.920
<v Speaker 3>He didn't believe me on the shoulder.

0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:51.120
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, get down, yeah yeah, and uh. He got out

0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:53.680
<v Speaker 7>the spotting scope and I kind of sat up on

0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:56.319
<v Speaker 7>this rock with my gun like looking at the bowl,

0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:59.760
<v Speaker 7>and he was like, it's at six hundred and eighty

0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:00.600
<v Speaker 7>nine yards.

0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:03.760
<v Speaker 6>And I was like, I got a whole another week

0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:04.160
<v Speaker 6>of the hunt.

0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:06.680
<v Speaker 7>Might as well try to pull the trigger and uh.

0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:11.040
<v Speaker 3>Hold it back up that that contradicts. Yeah, yeah, No,

0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:14.720
<v Speaker 3>you have a whole nother week of the hunt, so

0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:16.080
<v Speaker 3>might as well pull the trigger.

0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:16.680
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:20.320
<v Speaker 7>If I missed, then I got I got enough. I

0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:21.160
<v Speaker 7>got another week.

0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:25.200
<v Speaker 2>Because I could hear you finishing that sentence by saying, uh,

0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:26.120
<v Speaker 2>we got a whole nother.

0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:26.760
<v Speaker 3>Week of the hunt.

0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:27.960
<v Speaker 8>Let's not pull the trick.

0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:30.360
<v Speaker 3>So let's not pull the truck. Let's wait. So You're like,

0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:31.560
<v Speaker 3>we got a whold of the week of the hunt.

0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:32.400
<v Speaker 3>So let's take a shot.

0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:37.000
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, are you a holdover guy or you dialing a holdover?

0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:37.880
<v Speaker 5>Uh huh.

0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:43.760
<v Speaker 7>And it's it's like a little Christmas tree scope. It's

0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:47.160
<v Speaker 7>got what is it, five notches on it. The farthest

0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:50.000
<v Speaker 7>goes a six hundred, but there's like this little notch

0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:54.000
<v Speaker 7>at the very end that I used for seven hundred.

0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:57.600
<v Speaker 3>Okay, and you do a little bit long long distance shooting.

0:13:57.960 --> 0:13:59.920
<v Speaker 7>No, that was the first time I've ever sat that far.

0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:01.920
<v Speaker 3>Okay, go on.

0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:06.640
<v Speaker 7>So I missed the first shot and the ball just

0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:09.480
<v Speaker 7>stood there like nothing happened, and.

0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:12.520
<v Speaker 3>You're using your little extra post. Yeah again, Then what happened?

0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:14.360
<v Speaker 7>My Dad's like, shoot again, shoot again?

0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:15.679
<v Speaker 3>See where you hit?

0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:17.720
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, he was like, you missed high And I was like, okay,

0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:19.920
<v Speaker 7>I got to readjust for wind and all that, and

0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:23.240
<v Speaker 7>uh shot again, high backed him and his like back

0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:27.240
<v Speaker 7>legs dropped and he just kind of stood there again.

0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:29.920
<v Speaker 7>And my Dad's like, float another one and shoot and

0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:33.560
<v Speaker 7>I did double lung dum bam.

0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:33.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:35.760
<v Speaker 7>He kind of walked off to the trees and bedded

0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:38.960
<v Speaker 7>down after that, and then what happened. We walked up

0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:41.800
<v Speaker 7>to him and he was dead. Yeah, just laying there.

0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:43.560
<v Speaker 3>And at what point did you go like, my goodness,

0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:44.480
<v Speaker 3>that's a big old bull.

0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:46.080
<v Speaker 8>Uh.

0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:48.480
<v Speaker 7>When I got walked up to him, I didn't when

0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:50.520
<v Speaker 7>I shot, I didn't see like how big he was.

0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:52.880
<v Speaker 7>I saw like the back whale tail and just was

0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:54.600
<v Speaker 7>like that's enough for me to see how.

0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:59.920
<v Speaker 8>Yeah it no ground shrinkers. Yeah yeah, yeah, he's like that,

0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:02.520
<v Speaker 8>that's not the five point the uncommon ground groath.

0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:03.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Yeah.

0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:07.920
<v Speaker 7>And we walked up to it and we we kind

0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:10.120
<v Speaker 7>of talked about it. We thought it was in the

0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:13.600
<v Speaker 7>three seventy range. Huh, and we got it scored a

0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:18.000
<v Speaker 7>couple of weeks ago at three eighty seven net and

0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:19.200
<v Speaker 7>then three ninety three.

0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:26.040
<v Speaker 3>Gross. Oh that's wild. Get out here, all right, dismissed.

0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:31.760
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, gave us a lot to think about. Connor, thank you.

0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:37.160
<v Speaker 4>I've killed I've killed two balls that would that would

0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:39.480
<v Speaker 4>fit under that three nineties.

0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:44.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Yeah, there, that's pretty incredible.

0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:47.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So now you realize here's the problem you're going

0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:50.560
<v Speaker 2>to face now as you grow older, you might you

0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:52.320
<v Speaker 2>probably already got the biggest helk you'll ever get.

0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:55.120
<v Speaker 3>You realize that, Yeah, okay, you can't feel that.

0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:57.520
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, I've been told by a lot of people that.

0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:00.280
<v Speaker 3>People like to point out out. Is it as the

0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:01.400
<v Speaker 3>older people to point that out?

0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:03.480
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, well I think some of them are sitting around the.

0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:04.200
<v Speaker 3>Table right now.

0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:05.560
<v Speaker 8>I did in the hallway out there.

0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:09.720
<v Speaker 3>That makes older people feel better.

0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:12.680
<v Speaker 7>I've been told I'm ruined for the rest of my life.

0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:14.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well, let me give you piece of advice.

0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:17.800
<v Speaker 2>We had a dude, There was a dude that named

0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:19.880
<v Speaker 2>Dustin Huff that was on the show and he killed uh.

0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:25.640
<v Speaker 2>I think it's what is the biggest typical typical biggest

0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:31.520
<v Speaker 2>typical white tail in America meaning not in Canada. Yeah, okay,

0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:33.560
<v Speaker 2>because there's a bigger one there.

0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:35.280
<v Speaker 5>He's number two on the continent.

0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:37.840
<v Speaker 3>So number two on the continent, number one in America,

0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:40.480
<v Speaker 3>which is what really matters. Yeah, we're all Americans here.

0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:43.440
<v Speaker 3>He uh.

0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:46.320
<v Speaker 2>When he set out that day he set out to kill,

0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:50.520
<v Speaker 2>he was like, my goal was to kill a personal best, okay, yeah,

0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:52.440
<v Speaker 2>and a personal best for him I can't remember. He

0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:54.280
<v Speaker 2>had killed like a one thirty white tail, so he

0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:59.000
<v Speaker 2>was looking for a personal best. So then he kills

0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:02.520
<v Speaker 2>this thing that you know, we'll never be seen again. Yeah,

0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:05.080
<v Speaker 2>And I said, well, what is your attitude now? Because

0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:08.520
<v Speaker 2>you're like a personal best hunter. And he said, I'm

0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:10.760
<v Speaker 2>going to go back to where I was before I

0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:17.679
<v Speaker 2>killed that bart, So he had to just you know,

0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:21.080
<v Speaker 2>ignore that one and then plow ahead. Yeah, which is

0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:22.920
<v Speaker 2>probably how you're gonna want to approach things.

0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:23.240
<v Speaker 8>Yeah.

0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:25.720
<v Speaker 5>It'd be like your rifle range right where you get

0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:28.880
<v Speaker 5>a nice group and then there's one that flies off

0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:31.080
<v Speaker 5>to the side. Yeah, and you just kind of that's

0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:31.640
<v Speaker 5>an outlier.

0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:37.000
<v Speaker 10>Yeah, when you're shooting and you go home after a

0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:39.840
<v Speaker 10>good shot, I go down there shoot again because I

0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:41.399
<v Speaker 10>might have one of them strays, and then I have

0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:42.400
<v Speaker 10>to go home feeling worse.

0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:43.480
<v Speaker 3>You could also just.

0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:47.600
<v Speaker 4>Get really into uh general tag hunting. You have your

0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:49.560
<v Speaker 4>your draw best, then you have your general tag.

0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:50.840
<v Speaker 3>That's a good way to look at it, Toude.

0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:53.480
<v Speaker 9>He's got time to draw all kinds of good tags.

0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:55.560
<v Speaker 9>Sheep goat moves all that.

0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:58.320
<v Speaker 3>But you saw some other hunters. Yeah, you're hunting on

0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:01.119
<v Speaker 3>public land? Yes or no?

0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:02.760
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, hunting on public land.

0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:04.000
<v Speaker 3>It's awesome other hunters.

0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:09.200
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, what was the elevation? I can remember?

0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:16.080
<v Speaker 7>Congratulations, man, where it's in my garage right now? You

0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:19.520
<v Speaker 7>can get stuffed the hides at the taxidermist.

0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:21.000
<v Speaker 3>Right now, you getting stuff.

0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:23.600
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, we're gonna get a shoulder mountain where you gonna

0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:26.240
<v Speaker 7>hang it? Uh, probably like the living room.

0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:27.760
<v Speaker 3>You got a place big enough for that.

0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:30.640
<v Speaker 7>We talked about it. We have to move a mount

0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:32.200
<v Speaker 7>a full body mountain goat for.

0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:37.000
<v Speaker 3>It out of the way. Whose mountain goat is it

0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:37.760
<v Speaker 3>my dad's.

0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:39.680
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I'm sure he doesn't take that personally.

0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:43.200
<v Speaker 3>If you don't, if you run out of room, you

0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:44.439
<v Speaker 3>can hang it down here in the office.

0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:46.480
<v Speaker 7>I might have to do that.

0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:48.560
<v Speaker 3>Man, we'll put a little plaque up.

0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:50.840
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, nobody's gonna walk in the house and talk about

0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:54.760
<v Speaker 5>dad's goat anymore. Right, Well, what's that.

0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:56.040
<v Speaker 3>Who's paying to get it stuffed?

0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:57.240
<v Speaker 6>My parents?

0:18:57.600 --> 0:19:00.080
<v Speaker 3>That's nice though, That is who you're gonna have stuff it?

0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:00.640
<v Speaker 3>Do you know yet?

0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:04.240
<v Speaker 7>Uh, that's a guy down in Belgrade.

0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:05.440
<v Speaker 6>It's uh Terry.

0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:06.680
<v Speaker 3>Sure he does good work.

0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:11.440
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, he does a good job. Yeah, he's done my

0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:14.680
<v Speaker 7>dad's mountain goat, and uh he's done in my dad's

0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:15.119
<v Speaker 7>mule deer.

0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:17.800
<v Speaker 3>A lot of those guys are weird. Ohs man Taxdermist,

0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:22.960
<v Speaker 3>I've even I even talked about that with tax Ermis.

0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:29.600
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, he's like not me. But they're like a

0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:32.400
<v Speaker 3>lot of them. Yeah.

0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:35.920
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, he's a funny guy though, is Heny like good? Yeah,

0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:38.360
<v Speaker 7>he's he's fun to talk humorous.

0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:41.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, got it great. Well, thanks for coming in, man, Yeah,

0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:44.880
<v Speaker 3>thanks for having me on. Congratulations. Thanks, that's pretty great.

0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:49.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah you can head out this year obviously, you turkey man. Yeah, okay,

0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:53.600
<v Speaker 2>you like to fish, Yeah, okay, let us know next

0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:54.720
<v Speaker 2>time something good happens.

0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:57.360
<v Speaker 5>To you, but it's shed hunting season, like that's that's

0:19:57.359 --> 0:19:58.119
<v Speaker 5>what these guys do.

0:19:58.160 --> 0:19:58.800
<v Speaker 3>If you're into that.

0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:00.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, that wasn't thing when I was a kid.

0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:03.240
<v Speaker 2>Pick you picked them up, but no one had a

0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:07.520
<v Speaker 2>word for it. You just found an antler. No one

0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:09.240
<v Speaker 2>like went anywhere to find an antler. Just if you

0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:12.480
<v Speaker 2>found one, you brought it home. Everyone was a shad lunder.

0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:14.920
<v Speaker 2>They just didn't know it. Yeah, there's no term for it,

0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:19.840
<v Speaker 2>you know. No, I didn't kind of like parkour.

0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:22.439
<v Speaker 4>You know, people used to just jump off trash cans

0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:23.720
<v Speaker 4>and stuff like that.

0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:26.159
<v Speaker 3>They didn't know what it was.

0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:31.760
<v Speaker 2>All right, Well, next time you get have something good

0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:33.920
<v Speaker 2>or if something real bad happens, you come check us out.

0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:36.080
<v Speaker 3>I want to hear it. Next year. I want you

0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:37.840
<v Speaker 3>to come down and talk about getting your ass kicked

0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:38.399
<v Speaker 3>at something.

0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:39.520
<v Speaker 6>Oh, I probably will.

0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:43.720
<v Speaker 7>I'm gonna try archery hunting this year.

0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:46.600
<v Speaker 3>Come tell us about missing one or hitting one in

0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:49.399
<v Speaker 3>the leg and can't find it yard shots.

0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:51.960
<v Speaker 6>For that, I'll probably miss high on one.

0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:56.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah it was eighty three yards A buddy, thanks, you

0:20:56.560 --> 0:20:57.240
<v Speaker 2>can stick around.

0:20:57.359 --> 0:20:58.639
<v Speaker 6>I'll stick stick around you.

0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:01.040
<v Speaker 3>Where are you supposed to be in school? SI? Obviously? Yeah?

0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:04.560
<v Speaker 3>Well gradient jor okay, but you got excused.

0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:06.520
<v Speaker 7>No, I'm just playing.

0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:09.439
<v Speaker 8>What's sick the dentist?

0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:11.520
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, buzzman high?

0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:14.919
<v Speaker 3>Where's that at? That's what my kid's going to.

0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:17.760
<v Speaker 7>It's the that's the old one it is.

0:21:17.880 --> 0:21:21.119
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, it'll be done. Yes, yere. He'll like all

0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:23.879
<v Speaker 3>that stuff about yardages and calibers. That's there. That's like

0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:25.840
<v Speaker 3>his peer group as they're interested in.

0:21:25.920 --> 0:21:30.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he's like Johnny shot a elk at six and

0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:36.520
<v Speaker 2>twenty yards with a I'm like, where were they?

0:21:37.359 --> 0:21:38.479
<v Speaker 3>Was it a big bull? I don't know.

0:21:40.760 --> 0:21:45.199
<v Speaker 2>Everything is calibers and distances. Uh, all right, Yanni, you're

0:21:45.200 --> 0:21:45.920
<v Speaker 2>gonna tell something.

0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:50.320
<v Speaker 11>Yeah, you're gonna share it. Are a cotell his story?

0:21:50.760 --> 0:21:51.840
<v Speaker 11>You're there, chip In.

0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:54.720
<v Speaker 5>I had a lot of people that I just just

0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:56.840
<v Speaker 5>got back from pheasant Fest, a lot of people asking

0:21:56.880 --> 0:21:58.359
<v Speaker 5>about how Mingus is doing.

0:21:58.800 --> 0:21:59.560
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, I don't know where.

0:21:59.600 --> 0:22:01.879
<v Speaker 11>We must have talked about it somewhere else or someone

0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:03.680
<v Speaker 11>did because word got out.

0:22:03.840 --> 0:22:07.000
<v Speaker 5>He got mentioned, It was mentioned briefly on Trivia, and

0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:09.840
<v Speaker 5>we kind of danced around it on the last Meet episode.

0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:13.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh hey, let me tell you something that Pat said first,

0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:18.800
<v Speaker 2>Pat Diurkin. Pat Dirkin wrote in Hi, Stephen Crinn, I

0:22:18.880 --> 0:22:22.639
<v Speaker 2>enjoyed the Meat Eater podcast with CJ Box, especially the

0:22:22.680 --> 0:22:27.240
<v Speaker 2>shots at copy editors, probably because I am one. He

0:22:27.320 --> 0:22:30.240
<v Speaker 2>goes on, I'm sure you know Samuel Clemens. That's Mark

0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:30.800
<v Speaker 2>Twain to you.

0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:36.000
<v Speaker 3>Uh, not ill literate, not literary folks.

0:22:37.160 --> 0:22:41.119
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure you know Mark Twain didn't like editors either. Oh,

0:22:41.680 --> 0:22:43.880
<v Speaker 2>I see what he's doing here. He uses Samuel Clemens

0:22:43.880 --> 0:22:49.920
<v Speaker 2>and then uses Mark Twain. I keep this Mark Twain

0:22:50.000 --> 0:22:52.720
<v Speaker 2>quote taped above my desk. It's from a nineteen to

0:22:53.000 --> 0:22:57.080
<v Speaker 2>six letter to Henry mills Alden and was printed in

0:22:57.119 --> 0:23:02.400
<v Speaker 2>the Chicago Daily Tribune. Twain and says, how often we

0:23:02.440 --> 0:23:07.399
<v Speaker 2>recall with regret that Napoleon once shot at a magazine

0:23:07.600 --> 0:23:12.399
<v Speaker 2>editor and missed him and killed a publisher. But we

0:23:12.480 --> 0:23:17.239
<v Speaker 2>remember with clarity. No, but we remember with charity that

0:23:17.320 --> 0:23:24.159
<v Speaker 2>his intentions were good and he says, also, don't bury

0:23:24.240 --> 0:23:28.400
<v Speaker 2>outdoor newspaper columnists yet, please wait till I die. I'm

0:23:28.440 --> 0:23:32.879
<v Speaker 2>still cranking out my weekly column for eight Wisconsin newspapers.

0:23:33.359 --> 0:23:36.200
<v Speaker 2>I started the column in nineteen eighty four while at

0:23:36.240 --> 0:23:41.479
<v Speaker 2>the Oshkosh Daily Northwestern and haven't missed a week since.

0:23:42.720 --> 0:23:46.320
<v Speaker 2>I also posted on my website for the Freeloaders Last

0:23:46.400 --> 0:23:48.280
<v Speaker 2>of a Dying Breed that we were.

0:23:48.160 --> 0:23:50.560
<v Speaker 3>Talking about, like like when you you're a kid, I'd

0:23:50.640 --> 0:23:53.320
<v Speaker 3>like the dude at the Skiing Chronicle. I wish I can

0:23:53.320 --> 0:23:54.159
<v Speaker 3>remember his name, Bob's.

0:23:54.320 --> 0:23:57.120
<v Speaker 9>Every Sunday you're excited to open the pap.

0:23:56.720 --> 0:24:00.000
<v Speaker 2>He'd profile attacks at Ermist. He'd be like, they're getting

0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:03.639
<v Speaker 2>big perch yep, you know, off of the late Michigan Pier.

0:24:03.880 --> 0:24:06.840
<v Speaker 2>The next week it'd be here's a great venison meat

0:24:06.840 --> 0:24:10.840
<v Speaker 2>low for Resbee. Just every Saturday, man. And that was

0:24:10.880 --> 0:24:13.240
<v Speaker 2>like the only outdoor media we took in ye was

0:24:13.280 --> 0:24:14.280
<v Speaker 2>that dude's column.

0:24:14.359 --> 0:24:17.280
<v Speaker 5>Well, I wonder if even there is an outdoor section.

0:24:17.400 --> 0:24:19.480
<v Speaker 11>I've gotten a newspaper and so long, but I remember,

0:24:19.520 --> 0:24:24.040
<v Speaker 11>like the Gazette Kalamazoo Gazette had an outdoor section on Saturday, Yeah.

0:24:23.920 --> 0:24:25.560
<v Speaker 3>Which is weird because Saturday is the day you're hunting

0:24:25.560 --> 0:24:25.920
<v Speaker 3>and fishing.

0:24:27.080 --> 0:24:29.120
<v Speaker 9>A lot of papers have gotten rid of them billings.

0:24:29.160 --> 0:24:31.280
<v Speaker 3>I think still has one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I talked

0:24:31.280 --> 0:24:33.439
<v Speaker 3>to an outdoor guy at one of the papers and

0:24:34.400 --> 0:24:37.160
<v Speaker 3>he was not happy about digital media. I can tell you,

0:24:36.560 --> 0:24:37.919
<v Speaker 3>all right, go.

0:24:37.880 --> 0:24:43.920
<v Speaker 11>Ahead a couple Actually, I think it's three weeks ago now.

0:24:44.920 --> 0:24:49.080
<v Speaker 11>Steve and I took our kids on a little snowmobiling

0:24:49.520 --> 0:24:55.280
<v Speaker 11>cat hunting adventure and not long into our morning, really,

0:24:55.320 --> 0:24:58.639
<v Speaker 11>probably less than an hour into our snowbiling adventure, you

0:24:58.760 --> 0:25:03.000
<v Speaker 11>cut a fresh boxcat track. We had incredibly fresh snow, yeah,

0:25:03.080 --> 0:25:05.239
<v Speaker 11>real fresh, real fresh snow, like it had probably only

0:25:05.359 --> 0:25:08.560
<v Speaker 11>quit snowing right at daylight or maybe even after. And

0:25:08.600 --> 0:25:10.960
<v Speaker 11>so any you know track that we're gonna cut was

0:25:11.000 --> 0:25:13.800
<v Speaker 11>gonna be pretty fresh. And this sucker, I mean it

0:25:13.880 --> 0:25:15.760
<v Speaker 11>might have been filled in a little bit crossing the road,

0:25:15.760 --> 0:25:17.119
<v Speaker 11>but as soon as it went under any kind of

0:25:17.160 --> 0:25:19.520
<v Speaker 11>a tree you could see it was. It was crisp

0:25:19.560 --> 0:25:22.760
<v Speaker 11>and clean. And so we cut mingus loose on it.

0:25:23.600 --> 0:25:25.280
<v Speaker 11>And uh, Steve and I've been trying to do this

0:25:25.320 --> 0:25:27.080
<v Speaker 11>for a couple of years now.

0:25:27.160 --> 0:25:29.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, we go seven seven people and one dog.

0:25:29.800 --> 0:25:35.520
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, go hu with mingus and uh it's a uh.

0:25:35.080 --> 0:25:36.840
<v Speaker 3>Is that right? Seven people? Yeah, me and my three

0:25:36.880 --> 0:25:37.879
<v Speaker 3>I had all three my kids.

0:25:37.960 --> 0:25:43.120
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I too. Yeah.

0:25:43.160 --> 0:25:45.200
<v Speaker 11>There's a lot to think about when you're gonna put

0:25:45.200 --> 0:25:48.880
<v Speaker 11>together that kind of a an adventure, because, uh, it's

0:25:48.920 --> 0:25:52.000
<v Speaker 11>not just like you and me going looking for a

0:25:52.080 --> 0:25:57.439
<v Speaker 11>line track. Uh, there's you know, five people that are

0:25:57.440 --> 0:26:00.199
<v Speaker 11>depending on us, and you know, you bring in us

0:26:00.320 --> 0:26:03.119
<v Speaker 11>in its form and extra clothes because they're gonna you know,

0:26:04.240 --> 0:26:05.680
<v Speaker 11>the first thing we do when they when you stop

0:26:05.720 --> 0:26:07.920
<v Speaker 11>snowbills and are looking at a fresh track, they're like, yeah,

0:26:07.920 --> 0:26:10.960
<v Speaker 11>that's interesting. And then they just start like doing parkour

0:26:11.119 --> 0:26:13.720
<v Speaker 11>off the edge of the Forest service road into the

0:26:13.800 --> 0:26:14.680
<v Speaker 11>snow and they're.

0:26:16.520 --> 0:26:20.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, everybody's like this. It's like no ship.

0:26:21.640 --> 0:26:24.600
<v Speaker 5>All the snowmobile and goggles are just packed full of snow.

0:26:24.800 --> 0:26:26.240
<v Speaker 5>Wordless at this point.

0:26:26.880 --> 0:26:29.080
<v Speaker 3>Whitewashing each other whatever. Man, It's like.

0:26:31.160 --> 0:26:33.280
<v Speaker 11>This comes this is part of the story because that

0:26:33.480 --> 0:26:36.280
<v Speaker 11>morning I had looked at the pack. I had been

0:26:36.400 --> 0:26:39.760
<v Speaker 11>using a pack that Paul had made for me. It's

0:26:39.840 --> 0:26:41.359
<v Speaker 11>kind of a just a day hunting pack. It's not

0:26:41.400 --> 0:26:44.679
<v Speaker 11>really meant to pack meat. And uh, I thought, you know,

0:26:44.960 --> 0:26:48.560
<v Speaker 11>with all these kids and nowhere we were going, there's

0:26:48.600 --> 0:26:50.359
<v Speaker 11>not a lot of roads. We might end up on

0:26:50.440 --> 0:26:54.480
<v Speaker 11>a long walk and I'll be carrying all kinds of gear, water, food, whatever.

0:26:54.560 --> 0:26:55.960
<v Speaker 5>So I should go to a bigger pack.

0:26:56.800 --> 0:26:58.800
<v Speaker 11>And so I swapped out and just grabbed my like

0:26:58.840 --> 0:27:01.280
<v Speaker 11>a exo pack that has more of a frame to it,

0:27:01.320 --> 0:27:05.920
<v Speaker 11>you know. Anyways, we cut Mangus loose on the track

0:27:06.119 --> 0:27:09.359
<v Speaker 11>and he's what I would call smoking it, moving it

0:27:09.480 --> 0:27:13.040
<v Speaker 11>very quickly. He makes it, you know, six hundred yards

0:27:13.040 --> 0:27:14.639
<v Speaker 11>is the crow flies from us? And I don't know,

0:27:14.880 --> 0:27:16.480
<v Speaker 11>ten minutes maybe not that.

0:27:18.200 --> 0:27:22.639
<v Speaker 3>We gotta make the noise. What's that little the noises

0:27:22.640 --> 0:27:23.160
<v Speaker 3>he's making?

0:27:23.520 --> 0:27:25.119
<v Speaker 5>Oh, when Mingus is on track?

0:27:25.600 --> 0:27:27.760
<v Speaker 3>Well, I kept saying, what's that noise mean? What's that

0:27:27.880 --> 0:27:30.240
<v Speaker 3>noise mean? And he's like he likes it, he doesn't

0:27:30.320 --> 0:27:30.879
<v Speaker 3>love it.

0:27:32.040 --> 0:27:35.560
<v Speaker 12>He hasn't seen it.

0:27:34.520 --> 0:27:36.400
<v Speaker 3>Right, like that kind of stuff.

0:27:36.680 --> 0:27:40.080
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it's a steady ball it. Mingus.

0:27:40.119 --> 0:27:44.040
<v Speaker 11>His bark is very hard to replicate because he kind

0:27:44.040 --> 0:27:45.959
<v Speaker 11>of balls. And then at the end of it his

0:27:46.119 --> 0:27:49.080
<v Speaker 11>voice almost cracks and breaks and it almost sounds like

0:27:49.119 --> 0:27:53.600
<v Speaker 11>you're taking, uh, like newspaper on a window if you're

0:27:53.680 --> 0:27:56.760
<v Speaker 11>watching it, and it's like that, oh right at the end,

0:27:57.560 --> 0:27:58.360
<v Speaker 11>it's a funny sound.

0:27:58.359 --> 0:27:58.679
<v Speaker 5>I don't know.

0:27:58.720 --> 0:28:01.200
<v Speaker 2>He was explaining to me the noise if it sees it,

0:28:01.320 --> 0:28:06.439
<v Speaker 2>then it's a different noise. Well, once he sees it

0:28:06.480 --> 0:28:10.280
<v Speaker 2>in the tree, it's different.

0:28:10.800 --> 0:28:14.400
<v Speaker 11>Well, yeah, he'd go into three long like locate balls,

0:28:14.440 --> 0:28:17.920
<v Speaker 11>which are very deep, very low, and then he would

0:28:17.960 --> 0:28:22.360
<v Speaker 11>just go into a constant chop. So anyways, he's crossed.

0:28:22.560 --> 0:28:25.880
<v Speaker 11>We're on one side of a drainage and he's crossed

0:28:25.880 --> 0:28:28.399
<v Speaker 11>the drainage across the creek and he's gotten up on

0:28:28.440 --> 0:28:31.240
<v Speaker 11>a I guess that's hill would be south facing right,

0:28:31.280 --> 0:28:34.760
<v Speaker 11>it's way more open, there's not as many trees, and

0:28:34.800 --> 0:28:35.800
<v Speaker 11>it looks steep to me.

0:28:36.000 --> 0:28:37.360
<v Speaker 5>There's some cliffs over there.

0:28:37.640 --> 0:28:42.800
<v Speaker 3>It's like it's a band of cliffs. It's like, no,

0:28:42.840 --> 0:28:44.400
<v Speaker 3>it's like you go down.

0:28:44.480 --> 0:28:47.000
<v Speaker 2>We're on a timbered slope and you go down, you

0:28:47.040 --> 0:28:49.600
<v Speaker 2>got a big screen field and then like all the

0:28:49.680 --> 0:28:51.680
<v Speaker 2>cliff faces that all the screen had been breaking up.

0:28:51.720 --> 0:28:54.440
<v Speaker 3>Sure, but he obviously went you see, I slip a

0:28:54.440 --> 0:28:56.480
<v Speaker 3>little jelagy in there.

0:28:56.000 --> 0:28:59.520
<v Speaker 11>But he's the whole thing wasn't a cliff face because

0:28:59.520 --> 0:29:03.360
<v Speaker 11>he was able to get a bullet cliffs bands. Yeah,

0:29:03.440 --> 0:29:05.680
<v Speaker 11>he was able to pretty easily work through the trees

0:29:05.760 --> 0:29:10.960
<v Speaker 11>that the bobcat had taken. And bobcats are known for

0:29:12.280 --> 0:29:16.760
<v Speaker 11>evading dogs, like while the chase is actually going on, right,

0:29:16.880 --> 0:29:20.160
<v Speaker 11>a lion really doesn't have that option because it doesn't

0:29:20.200 --> 0:29:22.840
<v Speaker 11>have the stamina to stay out ahead of dogs. It's

0:29:22.840 --> 0:29:26.480
<v Speaker 11>a very short chase, usually a couple hundred yards, and

0:29:26.520 --> 0:29:29.120
<v Speaker 11>the lion gives up because it's just it's lungs are

0:29:29.160 --> 0:29:32.200
<v Speaker 11>burning and it has to, you know, go up a tree.

0:29:33.280 --> 0:29:34.680
<v Speaker 3>Can I tell you the thing that you told me?

0:29:34.720 --> 0:29:35.960
<v Speaker 3>While we were doing this, h.

0:29:38.920 --> 0:29:40.640
<v Speaker 2>He went down into a creek bottom where he could

0:29:40.680 --> 0:29:42.560
<v Speaker 2>picture like a cat running. But then all of a

0:29:42.560 --> 0:29:44.320
<v Speaker 2>sudden he left the creek bottom and went up and

0:29:44.360 --> 0:29:46.040
<v Speaker 2>we were thought, oh me, he might already know because

0:29:46.080 --> 0:29:47.800
<v Speaker 2>the track was so fresh, he might already know there's

0:29:47.800 --> 0:29:49.920
<v Speaker 2>a dog after him. And Yanni was talking to a

0:29:49.960 --> 0:29:51.040
<v Speaker 2>houndsman who was saying.

0:29:50.880 --> 0:29:55.719
<v Speaker 3>He's seen cats eluding dogs and actually stop get out

0:29:55.800 --> 0:29:57.840
<v Speaker 3>on a cliff and be sitting there licking their paws,

0:29:58.160 --> 0:30:00.800
<v Speaker 3>just look looking down or they know the because they

0:30:01.080 --> 0:30:03.160
<v Speaker 3>when you think about they probably deal with this all

0:30:03.200 --> 0:30:06.200
<v Speaker 3>the time, like they're on a kill and some coyotes

0:30:06.200 --> 0:30:09.880
<v Speaker 3>come like, oh brother, climb up a tree right around

0:30:09.960 --> 0:30:12.760
<v Speaker 3>here in some areas, be like there's wolves to deal with,

0:30:12.880 --> 0:30:15.720
<v Speaker 3>so just get like, oh yeah, on a climba tree

0:30:15.720 --> 0:30:16.520
<v Speaker 3>and hang out.

0:30:16.800 --> 0:30:19.000
<v Speaker 2>That's part of that wing leaves me alone and then

0:30:19.000 --> 0:30:21.840
<v Speaker 2>I'll go about my business. It's probably like a somewhat

0:30:21.920 --> 0:30:26.760
<v Speaker 2>casual occurrence to elude a can to get out of

0:30:26.760 --> 0:30:27.640
<v Speaker 2>a canine's way.

0:30:27.760 --> 0:30:33.160
<v Speaker 11>Sure, it's part of daily life, you know. But yeah,

0:30:33.240 --> 0:30:35.400
<v Speaker 11>I've somehow it's been saying that they think that when

0:30:35.400 --> 0:30:38.480
<v Speaker 11>they've glassed those cats sitting there, it almost looks like

0:30:38.520 --> 0:30:44.680
<v Speaker 11>they're having fun. Which that's a little too too much anthropomorhization, I.

0:30:44.640 --> 0:30:46.400
<v Speaker 5>Think, to the to the situation.

0:30:46.600 --> 0:31:01.160
<v Speaker 11>But anyways, uh, yeah, we were. You had just mentioned

0:31:01.400 --> 0:31:06.000
<v Speaker 11>about how it's like looking pretty cliffy, like too cliffy,

0:31:06.440 --> 0:31:08.880
<v Speaker 11>and I'm like, yeah, buddy, he's hunting that kind of

0:31:08.880 --> 0:31:11.440
<v Speaker 11>stuff all the time, you know. And I was just like,

0:31:11.760 --> 0:31:14.680
<v Speaker 11>I wasn't worried until you said something. And if you're

0:31:14.720 --> 0:31:18.560
<v Speaker 11>watching the GPS, especially when they're on these Bobcat tracks,

0:31:18.560 --> 0:31:21.280
<v Speaker 11>it's just squiggly lions, squigily lined, squiggily lines, and so

0:31:21.360 --> 0:31:25.280
<v Speaker 11>he's in this cops of evergreens. We can't He's only

0:31:25.280 --> 0:31:27.200
<v Speaker 11>six hundred yards away, but we can't see him. There's

0:31:27.200 --> 0:31:30.000
<v Speaker 11>fresh snow. Mingus is pretty much a black and white

0:31:30.040 --> 0:31:33.440
<v Speaker 11>dog and he blends in very well on snow, and

0:31:33.800 --> 0:31:36.120
<v Speaker 11>so we're trying to find it, but we can't. And

0:31:36.200 --> 0:31:40.680
<v Speaker 11>I'm just watching the GPS and squiggily lions, squiggly lions.

0:31:40.800 --> 0:31:44.200
<v Speaker 11>And then you said he went quiet, and You're like, well,

0:31:44.200 --> 0:31:45.880
<v Speaker 11>what is he doing now, you know? And I'm like,

0:31:46.280 --> 0:31:48.040
<v Speaker 11>he must have lost it, you know, and he's just

0:31:48.080 --> 0:31:50.680
<v Speaker 11>like really having to focus, and he doesn't have that

0:31:50.760 --> 0:31:53.160
<v Speaker 11>fresh scent in his nose and that's why he's not balling.

0:31:53.680 --> 0:31:56.880
<v Speaker 11>And like the pause went on long enough to when

0:31:56.880 --> 0:31:58.640
<v Speaker 11>I'm like, oh, I better look at the GPS again

0:31:58.680 --> 0:31:59.960
<v Speaker 11>and see what is going on.

0:32:00.720 --> 0:32:00.880
<v Speaker 5>Now.

0:32:00.920 --> 0:32:03.960
<v Speaker 11>Look at the GPS. And he had made a short

0:32:04.280 --> 0:32:08.480
<v Speaker 11>run out of that cops of trees to the lookers

0:32:08.560 --> 0:32:13.200
<v Speaker 11>left and gotten above those cliffs. And then there's a

0:32:13.240 --> 0:32:16.720
<v Speaker 11>straight line from the top of those cliffs to the

0:32:16.720 --> 0:32:19.560
<v Speaker 11>bottom of those cliffs. And then the GPS has shown treed.

0:32:19.680 --> 0:32:22.840
<v Speaker 11>So when you have your garment set on a hat

0:32:22.880 --> 0:32:26.280
<v Speaker 11>for a hound dog. When they stop moving, it'll basically

0:32:26.320 --> 0:32:28.680
<v Speaker 11>give you a treed signal, so that if you're out

0:32:28.680 --> 0:32:32.720
<v Speaker 11>of earshot, you know your hounds stopped moving. He's on

0:32:32.760 --> 0:32:35.760
<v Speaker 11>a chase, He's probably at the tree with the cat. Well,

0:32:35.760 --> 0:32:37.760
<v Speaker 11>in this case, we knew he wasn't at a tree

0:32:37.760 --> 0:32:39.720
<v Speaker 11>with a cat. He was simply not moving and he

0:32:39.800 --> 0:32:42.880
<v Speaker 11>wasn't barking anymore after being on a super hot track,

0:32:42.960 --> 0:32:44.959
<v Speaker 11>and so we immediately knew something was up.

0:32:45.080 --> 0:32:47.600
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, it was without a doubt that.

0:32:47.600 --> 0:32:48.520
<v Speaker 5>He had taken a fall.

0:32:48.800 --> 0:32:53.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and so I figured, well, you know, he's like

0:32:54.080 --> 0:32:55.600
<v Speaker 2>stone dead at the bottom of a cliff.

0:32:56.080 --> 0:33:00.240
<v Speaker 5>Oh yeah, which, yeah, I thought that was going to

0:33:00.320 --> 0:33:00.880
<v Speaker 5>be the same deal.

0:33:01.680 --> 0:33:04.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm reel bad. I felt bad for you, but mainly

0:33:04.240 --> 0:33:07.600
<v Speaker 2>was like, man, Yan, these daughters love that dog so much.

0:33:07.640 --> 0:33:11.040
<v Speaker 2>This is just gonna this is just gonna be horrible.

0:33:11.440 --> 0:33:13.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, like a horrible day.

0:33:13.400 --> 0:33:15.520
<v Speaker 11>And we should touch on that later to you know,

0:33:15.800 --> 0:33:18.640
<v Speaker 11>at the end of the story, because I still go

0:33:18.720 --> 0:33:21.240
<v Speaker 11>back and forth. I've been calling Monster already at my

0:33:21.280 --> 0:33:24.600
<v Speaker 11>house because I've brought up this, uh, this idea of

0:33:24.680 --> 0:33:28.720
<v Speaker 11>like the different ways that it could have turned out.

0:33:29.600 --> 0:33:31.080
<v Speaker 5>You know, and.

0:33:32.480 --> 0:33:36.640
<v Speaker 11>Some like fifty years ago, or maybe not even that long,

0:33:36.840 --> 0:33:40.480
<v Speaker 11>twenty thirty years ago, this veterinary care that we have

0:33:40.680 --> 0:33:44.880
<v Speaker 11>so available to us wasn't And if you had a

0:33:44.920 --> 0:33:48.960
<v Speaker 11>situation like that, you'd be like, well, that's a bummer,

0:33:49.240 --> 0:33:50.760
<v Speaker 11>and you would just have to like, what.

0:33:51.720 --> 0:33:52.760
<v Speaker 3>Do you walk over there?

0:33:52.960 --> 0:33:55.320
<v Speaker 5>Well, no, you'd walk over there, right, but to get

0:33:55.320 --> 0:33:56.040
<v Speaker 5>your collar back.

0:33:56.520 --> 0:34:01.480
<v Speaker 3>But girls, I'll be back with the you know what

0:34:01.520 --> 0:34:01.800
<v Speaker 3>I mean.

0:34:01.880 --> 0:34:04.720
<v Speaker 11>And it's like, yeah, obviously in my head, I'm thinking, like,

0:34:05.000 --> 0:34:06.800
<v Speaker 11>how is this all going to go down with the kids?

0:34:06.800 --> 0:34:07.920
<v Speaker 5>How are they going to deal with it?

0:34:08.320 --> 0:34:10.960
<v Speaker 11>And part of me thinks that I don't want to

0:34:10.960 --> 0:34:13.839
<v Speaker 11>say it'd be better, but it certainly wouldn't hurt them

0:34:13.960 --> 0:34:17.560
<v Speaker 11>in life to have gone through the other the other

0:34:17.640 --> 0:34:21.160
<v Speaker 11>outcome that could have been from that day, oh you know, to.

0:34:21.160 --> 0:34:23.760
<v Speaker 3>Go, they wouldn't have had different lives.

0:34:24.040 --> 0:34:28.280
<v Speaker 5>No, not losing, but in the moment, it sure feels

0:34:28.320 --> 0:34:32.799
<v Speaker 5>like that the pressure you're feeling. So I empty out

0:34:32.840 --> 0:34:35.520
<v Speaker 5>that backpack that I was just talking about earlier, take out.

0:34:36.120 --> 0:34:38.520
<v Speaker 5>It's funny because I was packing, you took your pistol

0:34:38.560 --> 0:34:39.000
<v Speaker 5>out a.

0:34:39.000 --> 0:34:43.759
<v Speaker 11>Ten millimeter on my hip and and I had a

0:34:43.800 --> 0:34:46.440
<v Speaker 11>twenty two mag in the backpack in case we found

0:34:46.440 --> 0:34:49.200
<v Speaker 11>a cat that we wanted to shoot ten millimeters for

0:34:49.400 --> 0:34:54.200
<v Speaker 11>in case things get western. And I purposely took them

0:34:54.239 --> 0:34:56.279
<v Speaker 11>both out because I thought, if we go over there

0:34:56.520 --> 0:35:00.800
<v Speaker 11>and that dog has to be put down, I can't

0:35:00.880 --> 0:35:04.040
<v Speaker 11>do it with an earshot of those girls because if

0:35:04.040 --> 0:35:08.319
<v Speaker 11>they hear me shoot that dog, then they'll never forgive me,

0:35:08.760 --> 0:35:11.799
<v Speaker 11>you know. So I left both things there. I don't

0:35:11.840 --> 0:35:13.680
<v Speaker 11>know what we're gonna do.

0:35:13.360 --> 0:35:17.000
<v Speaker 2>Way down, I said, you got your pistol, right, yeah,

0:35:17.160 --> 0:35:18.680
<v Speaker 2>and you're like no. I didn't want them to hear

0:35:18.719 --> 0:35:19.360
<v Speaker 2>a shoot.

0:35:19.640 --> 0:35:21.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:35:21.200 --> 0:35:24.040
<v Speaker 5>We would have had to let his blood out with

0:35:24.200 --> 0:35:25.440
<v Speaker 5>a knife or something.

0:35:25.600 --> 0:35:28.400
<v Speaker 8>And we told the kids are making this so much worse.

0:35:28.640 --> 0:35:33.560
<v Speaker 3>Well, that's the stay put.

0:35:33.600 --> 0:35:35.560
<v Speaker 2>So it's all five. We're gonna stay put. We're gonna

0:35:35.600 --> 0:35:37.160
<v Speaker 2>go down and cross the camp.

0:35:37.239 --> 0:35:38.439
<v Speaker 5>Did you guys let that?

0:35:38.680 --> 0:35:41.719
<v Speaker 9>Were the kids aware that something was he said the

0:35:41.760 --> 0:35:43.960
<v Speaker 9>dog might be hurt, okay.

0:35:44.560 --> 0:35:48.759
<v Speaker 11>Yeah, but they they were having fun. Like like I said,

0:35:48.760 --> 0:35:50.919
<v Speaker 11>we had just we had we had moved the snowmobiles

0:35:50.960 --> 0:35:53.839
<v Speaker 11>closer to where he had where he was, they were

0:35:53.880 --> 0:35:56.200
<v Speaker 11>having fun. This is before we realized he got hurt.

0:35:56.239 --> 0:35:59.240
<v Speaker 11>They were having fun, throwing snow, chasing each other around,

0:35:59.560 --> 0:36:02.799
<v Speaker 11>and so we're like mingus, you know, is might need

0:36:02.800 --> 0:36:04.440
<v Speaker 11>a little hand. We're gonna go check in on him.

0:36:04.480 --> 0:36:06.800
<v Speaker 11>You guys just hang out, build a fire, eat some snacks.

0:36:07.239 --> 0:36:10.759
<v Speaker 11>They weren't really aware at all of that. We we

0:36:10.800 --> 0:36:14.880
<v Speaker 11>didn't certainly didn't show him the GPS track. So Steve

0:36:14.920 --> 0:36:18.720
<v Speaker 11>and I bailed down off this four service road and uh,

0:36:19.280 --> 0:36:21.400
<v Speaker 11>what do you think? We dropped thousand feet maybe not

0:36:21.480 --> 0:36:22.800
<v Speaker 11>quite to the creek bottom.

0:36:22.840 --> 0:36:25.879
<v Speaker 5>I can tell you exact deep deep snow.

0:36:25.640 --> 0:36:29.480
<v Speaker 11>A lot of fallen trees, and I felt like we

0:36:29.480 --> 0:36:31.400
<v Speaker 11>were just hopping a lot of trees, which on the

0:36:31.400 --> 0:36:36.120
<v Speaker 11>way down wasn't wasn't too bad across the creek and uh,

0:36:36.239 --> 0:36:38.520
<v Speaker 11>you know, base are able to walk right to him,

0:36:39.080 --> 0:36:41.960
<v Speaker 11>and Steve actually spotted him first.

0:36:41.520 --> 0:36:43.879
<v Speaker 2>And something had been wanting to ask you about. I'm

0:36:43.880 --> 0:36:46.480
<v Speaker 2>trying to I'm looking the spot, I said. I was

0:36:46.480 --> 0:36:50.440
<v Speaker 2>out a little bit in front of you, and I said,

0:36:50.600 --> 0:36:54.400
<v Speaker 2>his head's up. And you look I couldn't tell if

0:36:54.440 --> 0:36:58.239
<v Speaker 2>you were relieved or upset this head was up. You

0:36:58.280 --> 0:37:00.520
<v Speaker 2>looked like you were upset that his head was up.

0:37:01.880 --> 0:37:04.880
<v Speaker 11>No, I mean, honestly, I couldn't tell you if what

0:37:05.080 --> 0:37:07.279
<v Speaker 11>kind of at that point, what kind of emotions I

0:37:07.320 --> 0:37:10.520
<v Speaker 11>was feeling. I was just feeling really guilty for letting

0:37:10.600 --> 0:37:12.280
<v Speaker 11>him get into that position.

0:37:12.520 --> 0:37:17.640
<v Speaker 5>You know, understood heavy responsibility situation too, right, Like, yeah,

0:37:17.880 --> 0:37:21.160
<v Speaker 5>he got a lot going on, yep, So it was

0:37:21.200 --> 0:37:23.960
<v Speaker 5>good to see him with his head with his head up.

0:37:24.040 --> 0:37:24.960
<v Speaker 5>We knew he's alive.

0:37:25.880 --> 0:37:28.040
<v Speaker 11>But we get to him and he's kind of he

0:37:28.200 --> 0:37:29.799
<v Speaker 11>likes to sit in what we call a lot of

0:37:29.800 --> 0:37:33.439
<v Speaker 11>dogs sitting in that kind of sphinx position. He does

0:37:33.480 --> 0:37:37.360
<v Speaker 11>it extremely well and looks very handsome when he does it.

0:37:37.440 --> 0:37:40.799
<v Speaker 11>Sometimes he crosses his front paws. But he's in that

0:37:40.880 --> 0:37:44.520
<v Speaker 11>position on a scree slope facing uphill, and he can

0:37:44.560 --> 0:37:47.560
<v Speaker 11>obviously hear us coming, but he's not looking over his shoulder,

0:37:47.640 --> 0:37:49.360
<v Speaker 11>you know, He's like just looking one way. And we

0:37:49.400 --> 0:37:51.760
<v Speaker 11>get up there to him and kind of start poking

0:37:51.800 --> 0:37:56.040
<v Speaker 11>and prodding, and like he's not reacting to anything we do.

0:37:56.120 --> 0:37:58.239
<v Speaker 11>Like he can pull his legs out and he's they're

0:37:58.320 --> 0:38:00.920
<v Speaker 11>just kind of loose and floppy and you know.

0:38:01.360 --> 0:38:02.640
<v Speaker 3>Little holes all over him.

0:38:02.840 --> 0:38:05.800
<v Speaker 11>He's not look yeah, lacerations just covering his body and

0:38:05.880 --> 0:38:09.280
<v Speaker 11>he's not like you know, you can put your whatever

0:38:09.320 --> 0:38:10.880
<v Speaker 11>you could kind of yell at him, and he wasn't

0:38:10.920 --> 0:38:11.759
<v Speaker 11>reacting to the.

0:38:11.800 --> 0:38:13.600
<v Speaker 3>Big old blood trail coming down the hill.

0:38:14.239 --> 0:38:14.520
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

0:38:14.560 --> 0:38:20.040
<v Speaker 11>Like he landed probably fifty yards above that, and it

0:38:20.160 --> 0:38:22.120
<v Speaker 11>looked as though if you had shot a deer up

0:38:22.160 --> 0:38:25.280
<v Speaker 11>there and then they had rolled down in the blood.

0:38:25.400 --> 0:38:25.600
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:38:25.760 --> 0:38:29.040
<v Speaker 11>It was kind of that scene. I'd hiked up there

0:38:29.120 --> 0:38:31.360
<v Speaker 11>real quick just to see kind of get an idea

0:38:31.360 --> 0:38:34.320
<v Speaker 11>of what he had gone through and where he landed.

0:38:34.760 --> 0:38:37.360
<v Speaker 11>We probably had what four to six inches maybe afresh,

0:38:37.480 --> 0:38:41.920
<v Speaker 11>but not nothing underneath it. Very poor snow conditions in

0:38:42.040 --> 0:38:45.640
<v Speaker 11>general for the winter around here. But when he landed,

0:38:45.760 --> 0:38:48.479
<v Speaker 11>you know, the impact had shot snow probably six feet

0:38:49.040 --> 0:38:49.720
<v Speaker 11>out of the direction.

0:38:49.840 --> 0:38:50.640
<v Speaker 5>It was a big bomb.

0:38:50.680 --> 0:38:54.759
<v Speaker 11>You see it from way off, Yeah, and it's like

0:38:54.800 --> 0:38:58.160
<v Speaker 11>between two cliff faces. There was a little bit of

0:38:58.200 --> 0:39:00.680
<v Speaker 11>a shoot and I thought, well, maybe he could have

0:39:00.719 --> 0:39:03.520
<v Speaker 11>come down through that, but there was no disturbed snow,

0:39:04.160 --> 0:39:06.160
<v Speaker 11>so obviously he came off one of the cliff faces.

0:39:06.200 --> 0:39:08.319
<v Speaker 11>I'd like to go back and actually hit it with

0:39:08.360 --> 0:39:11.359
<v Speaker 11>the rangefinder to know, but I just remember looking up

0:39:11.360 --> 0:39:15.520
<v Speaker 11>there and just for to have some sort of comparison

0:39:15.600 --> 0:39:19.040
<v Speaker 11>or contact. I thought, I've never jumped off anything that

0:39:19.200 --> 0:39:22.360
<v Speaker 11>high on skis, and like, I'd probably be too scared

0:39:22.360 --> 0:39:24.600
<v Speaker 11>to jump off of that on skis, even on the

0:39:24.760 --> 0:39:28.280
<v Speaker 11>you know, deepest powder day. So you ski a lot,

0:39:28.520 --> 0:39:32.160
<v Speaker 11>you know, you've probably jumped off some stuff. But to

0:39:32.400 --> 0:39:35.360
<v Speaker 11>right Connor, you're dead experience stuff.

0:39:36.040 --> 0:39:38.839
<v Speaker 5>Your your dead animal experience there too, right of, Like

0:39:39.080 --> 0:39:43.759
<v Speaker 5>seeing that tumble down in the snow means something to

0:39:43.880 --> 0:39:46.840
<v Speaker 5>us that if you don't have the prior experience of

0:39:46.880 --> 0:39:51.759
<v Speaker 5>recovering game, this doesn't doesn't mean as much, right So you're, yeah,

0:39:51.800 --> 0:39:54.640
<v Speaker 5>you're you're adding up all your your data points right

0:39:54.680 --> 0:39:57.279
<v Speaker 5>now and trying to come up with the proper conclusion.

0:39:57.520 --> 0:40:01.719
<v Speaker 11>Yeah, so we'll have Yeah, we'll never know how he

0:40:01.880 --> 0:40:07.239
<v Speaker 11>came off the cliff. My best guess is that where

0:40:07.239 --> 0:40:10.960
<v Speaker 11>he went up, the grade of the hill was enough

0:40:11.000 --> 0:40:13.080
<v Speaker 11>that he had good footing, and then I think that

0:40:13.239 --> 0:40:16.759
<v Speaker 11>as he wrapped the hill going left, the grade just

0:40:17.080 --> 0:40:21.720
<v Speaker 11>it just increased to the point where it got really steep,

0:40:21.880 --> 0:40:24.960
<v Speaker 11>and the cat kept going and the snow got slick,

0:40:25.000 --> 0:40:28.719
<v Speaker 11>and eventually he just lost footing and couldn't, you know,

0:40:28.960 --> 0:40:32.760
<v Speaker 11>couldn't turn around and just went careening off a forty

0:40:32.800 --> 0:40:34.480
<v Speaker 11>footer is what I guessed it at.

0:40:34.560 --> 0:40:36.279
<v Speaker 2>He too, if you put your I put my ear

0:40:36.280 --> 0:40:40.000
<v Speaker 2>against his chest and it was like right, And I thought,

0:40:40.280 --> 0:40:42.719
<v Speaker 2>because I don't know what I'm doing, I thought it

0:40:42.760 --> 0:40:46.839
<v Speaker 2>was later found out what it was, but I thought blood.

0:40:47.480 --> 0:40:48.440
<v Speaker 5>In his chest because I.

0:40:48.400 --> 0:40:51.040
<v Speaker 2>Don't know, you know, it's like a real gurgly noise,

0:40:51.160 --> 0:40:52.919
<v Speaker 2>but it why not be in a totally He'll tell you, Rihani,

0:40:52.960 --> 0:40:55.120
<v Speaker 2>He'll tell you what It was a totally different issue

0:40:55.000 --> 0:40:56.480
<v Speaker 2>now which I had never heard of.

0:40:57.320 --> 0:41:00.560
<v Speaker 11>Oh yeah, I've learned a lot of words through this

0:41:00.680 --> 0:41:04.880
<v Speaker 11>experience that I had never heard of before. But uh yeah,

0:41:04.920 --> 0:41:08.000
<v Speaker 11>so we think we just decide, well, we're gonna pack

0:41:08.080 --> 0:41:10.520
<v Speaker 11>him up. Luckily, I had that frame pack that's meant

0:41:10.520 --> 0:41:13.560
<v Speaker 11>to pack me, and so I stuck him in there

0:41:13.719 --> 0:41:16.120
<v Speaker 11>just like an out quarter between the pack and.

0:41:16.160 --> 0:41:18.400
<v Speaker 3>The frame, eighty three pounds.

0:41:17.960 --> 0:41:22.040
<v Speaker 5>And uh zip zipped him up and were strapped him down.

0:41:22.200 --> 0:41:24.480
<v Speaker 5>Did he tuck his legs in? Yeah he was. He

0:41:24.600 --> 0:41:27.520
<v Speaker 5>was dangling. Yeah, he was sitting inside. He was sitting

0:41:27.880 --> 0:41:29.279
<v Speaker 5>ninety degrees to my back.

0:41:29.800 --> 0:41:32.839
<v Speaker 2>And I thought, I was like, if he's you know,

0:41:33.040 --> 0:41:34.400
<v Speaker 2>I didn't think it's gonna make I don't think the

0:41:34.440 --> 0:41:35.920
<v Speaker 2>dog is gonna be live, and I'm like, especially it's

0:41:35.920 --> 0:41:37.960
<v Speaker 2>not gonna be live now. We even talked about what

0:41:38.000 --> 0:41:39.680
<v Speaker 2>are you gonna do? Though, It's like, there's nothing you

0:41:39.760 --> 0:41:43.120
<v Speaker 2>can do. No, there's no way to We're on a

0:41:43.280 --> 0:41:45.560
<v Speaker 2>screen slide, like, there's no way to do anything. You know,

0:41:45.560 --> 0:41:48.759
<v Speaker 2>You're not gonna call a helicopter. It's like you have

0:41:48.800 --> 0:41:51.600
<v Speaker 2>to just you couldn't. A sled would have been no good.

0:41:53.080 --> 0:41:53.880
<v Speaker 2>There's nothing you can do.

0:41:54.000 --> 0:41:56.360
<v Speaker 5>And honestly, even having more people wouldn't really know.

0:41:56.920 --> 0:41:57.759
<v Speaker 3>It was like, nothing you can do.

0:41:57.800 --> 0:42:00.600
<v Speaker 2>You can't tag, you can't tag team in lead wouldn't

0:42:00.640 --> 0:42:04.839
<v Speaker 2>do you any good. You can't go up, there's nothing

0:42:04.840 --> 0:42:07.600
<v Speaker 2>to do. But I was like, because it was breathing bad,

0:42:07.719 --> 0:42:11.879
<v Speaker 2>you know, you're like keep your ways open and slumping in.

0:42:11.800 --> 0:42:14.520
<v Speaker 3>The back of a backpack and a run for it.

0:42:15.120 --> 0:42:19.879
<v Speaker 5>The human response, right, would be like, you provide stability

0:42:19.920 --> 0:42:25.720
<v Speaker 5>for this victim so the movement doesn't cause more trauma,

0:42:25.800 --> 0:42:29.399
<v Speaker 5>exactly right, or exacerbate whatever internal injuries you can't see,

0:42:29.840 --> 0:42:32.400
<v Speaker 5>which is just not an option in this scenario. Because

0:42:32.520 --> 0:42:33.960
<v Speaker 5>it's a ticking clock.

0:42:33.920 --> 0:42:36.080
<v Speaker 2>And that dog was cold too. Oh that's the other

0:42:36.120 --> 0:42:38.960
<v Speaker 2>thing I thought about waiting. He's already all wet and shivering.

0:42:39.280 --> 0:42:42.160
<v Speaker 11>Yeah, and he got a lot colder throughout the day

0:42:42.160 --> 0:42:45.640
<v Speaker 11>because it took a while. So, uh, I decide to

0:42:45.680 --> 0:42:48.120
<v Speaker 11>instead of going back up the way we came, which

0:42:48.120 --> 0:42:49.839
<v Speaker 11>in retrospect, I s time to decide if that would

0:42:49.840 --> 0:42:50.640
<v Speaker 11>have been faster or not.

0:42:50.840 --> 0:42:51.319
<v Speaker 5>What do you think?

0:42:52.480 --> 0:42:53.800
<v Speaker 11>It took me a long time to go out of

0:42:53.800 --> 0:42:56.839
<v Speaker 11>the creek. It was like an It was like a

0:42:56.880 --> 0:42:59.319
<v Speaker 11>mile and a quarter mile and a half. As the

0:42:59.320 --> 0:43:01.680
<v Speaker 11>crow flew, I figured it might have been two miles

0:43:01.920 --> 0:43:04.359
<v Speaker 11>the route we took to get out of the creek.

0:43:04.640 --> 0:43:06.320
<v Speaker 2>It would have been better to go with me because

0:43:06.400 --> 0:43:09.360
<v Speaker 2>we had all the time in the world waiting on me.

0:43:10.080 --> 0:43:13.640
<v Speaker 3>The kids made a second fire and you yeah.

0:43:13.160 --> 0:43:14.400
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, but you didn't have to climb that hill with

0:43:14.480 --> 0:43:15.719
<v Speaker 5>eighty five pounds on your back.

0:43:15.760 --> 0:43:17.000
<v Speaker 3>No, but I still think would have been quicker.

0:43:17.040 --> 0:43:19.840
<v Speaker 5>All right. Well, so, but I made this the decision

0:43:19.920 --> 0:43:21.840
<v Speaker 5>which I often say, don't do if you already know

0:43:21.920 --> 0:43:23.719
<v Speaker 5>one route. And it was.

0:43:23.960 --> 0:43:26.640
<v Speaker 11>The thing was is all those logs. I didn't feel

0:43:26.680 --> 0:43:28.560
<v Speaker 11>like climbing over all those logs on the way back

0:43:28.640 --> 0:43:30.600
<v Speaker 11>up where the full pack was gonna be fun. Anyways,

0:43:30.960 --> 0:43:32.839
<v Speaker 11>it takes me two hours to pack him out. We

0:43:32.880 --> 0:43:35.520
<v Speaker 11>meet up with the crew. Lowed him back into the

0:43:35.560 --> 0:43:36.359
<v Speaker 11>dog when he comes.

0:43:36.440 --> 0:43:38.440
<v Speaker 3>When he comes finally busting out of the brush, the

0:43:38.480 --> 0:43:40.040
<v Speaker 3>dog's not in the backpack anymore.

0:43:41.080 --> 0:43:41.560
<v Speaker 5>That's right.

0:43:41.600 --> 0:43:46.480
<v Speaker 3>He was carrying that dog like like on the front

0:43:46.480 --> 0:43:47.520
<v Speaker 3>of a romance novel.

0:43:47.800 --> 0:43:48.959
<v Speaker 5>Well right at the right.

0:43:49.080 --> 0:43:53.840
<v Speaker 11>Like seconds before that, he had just started legs and

0:43:53.880 --> 0:43:57.320
<v Speaker 11>stuff started slipping out of the pack, and he was

0:43:57.360 --> 0:43:59.200
<v Speaker 11>getting a little floppy on me. And so I had

0:43:59.239 --> 0:44:01.400
<v Speaker 11>him on the ground and I'm like, I can I

0:44:01.520 --> 0:44:04.200
<v Speaker 11>know where you guys are, just you know, two hundred

0:44:04.239 --> 0:44:06.840
<v Speaker 11>yards away. I'm like, at this point, god, oh, just

0:44:07.040 --> 0:44:09.760
<v Speaker 11>you know. He man it, which was probably a bad idea.

0:44:09.920 --> 0:44:12.640
<v Speaker 2>Oh dude, I couldn't believe it. When I want to

0:44:12.719 --> 0:44:14.560
<v Speaker 2>take him out of your hands, I couldn't get him.

0:44:14.600 --> 0:44:15.600
<v Speaker 2>I couldn't hold him.

0:44:15.440 --> 0:44:18.160
<v Speaker 3>Standing there barely. So it was a hard, awkward package.

0:44:18.160 --> 0:44:19.120
<v Speaker 3>That's a big, heavy dog.

0:44:19.280 --> 0:44:22.000
<v Speaker 5>Was he making any noise over the course of he.

0:44:22.040 --> 0:44:25.480
<v Speaker 3>Looked somehow better, like a little more with it.

0:44:25.520 --> 0:44:28.239
<v Speaker 11>Maybe, I don't know, maybe the concussion was wearing off.

0:44:28.400 --> 0:44:32.120
<v Speaker 11>I'm guessing that could have been. He was the whole

0:44:32.160 --> 0:44:35.040
<v Speaker 11>time I could hear him breathing. It was very shallow breathing,

0:44:35.280 --> 0:44:40.480
<v Speaker 11>but just this, you know, but just shallow breathing. I

0:44:40.560 --> 0:44:42.359
<v Speaker 11>at least I could hear him breathing, which was good.

0:44:42.560 --> 0:44:44.920
<v Speaker 2>I told my older boy, I said, I took him aside,

0:44:44.920 --> 0:44:47.120
<v Speaker 2>and I said, I don't think that Mingus is gonna

0:44:47.520 --> 0:44:51.000
<v Speaker 2>come out alive out of the woods. And I can

0:44:51.040 --> 0:44:53.520
<v Speaker 2>hear my daughter like she's like acting like she's a

0:44:53.600 --> 0:44:56.440
<v Speaker 2>vet and somehow she got and she's telling Yanni's.

0:44:56.120 --> 0:44:58.359
<v Speaker 3>Daughters that if it's got a broken leg, they're gonna

0:44:58.360 --> 0:44:58.640
<v Speaker 3>have to.

0:44:58.560 --> 0:44:59.640
<v Speaker 8>Put it down.

0:45:02.160 --> 0:45:04.320
<v Speaker 2>I was like, Jimmy tells me this, I should say

0:45:04.480 --> 0:45:07.240
<v Speaker 2>I didn't hear her say it. Jimmy said, he's she's

0:45:07.800 --> 0:45:12.400
<v Speaker 2>tattle tailing. That Rosemary is really upsetting Iron and Mabel

0:45:12.560 --> 0:45:16.360
<v Speaker 2>with her like armchair vet talk.

0:45:16.719 --> 0:45:18.480
<v Speaker 5>Which in this particular instance, you're.

0:45:18.360 --> 0:45:20.520
<v Speaker 8>Like, well, how old are they?

0:45:21.680 --> 0:45:23.080
<v Speaker 3>Well, Rosemary's eleven.

0:45:23.640 --> 0:45:25.960
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, Iron and Maybe are ten and twelve.

0:45:26.560 --> 0:45:28.960
<v Speaker 3>And my older boys thirteen and my younger boys nine.

0:45:29.200 --> 0:45:32.319
<v Speaker 11>Well, there's vet shows all over the internet and uh

0:45:32.640 --> 0:45:34.520
<v Speaker 11>television these days that the kids watch.

0:45:34.640 --> 0:45:35.400
<v Speaker 5>And I think she's.

0:45:35.280 --> 0:45:38.120
<v Speaker 2>Missing horses because I told him to fix the horses.

0:45:38.680 --> 0:45:42.000
<v Speaker 2>She's mixing that it could be anyhow a lot of

0:45:42.080 --> 0:45:42.640
<v Speaker 2>like coaching.

0:45:42.719 --> 0:45:46.160
<v Speaker 11>Yeah, the only time he made any noises one time

0:45:46.200 --> 0:45:48.080
<v Speaker 11>I had like slipped down a little bit of a

0:45:48.080 --> 0:45:51.480
<v Speaker 11>bank and UH kind of caught myself, caught my own weight,

0:45:51.520 --> 0:45:53.800
<v Speaker 11>and that caused him to, you know, shift pretty heavily

0:45:53.880 --> 0:45:55.880
<v Speaker 11>to one side, and he made like a little moany

0:45:56.480 --> 0:45:57.560
<v Speaker 11>grown kind of a sound.

0:45:57.560 --> 0:45:59.279
<v Speaker 5>But other than that, he was good. So are you

0:45:59.360 --> 0:46:00.879
<v Speaker 5>talking to your the whole way out?

0:46:01.120 --> 0:46:04.960
<v Speaker 11>Oh yeah, yeah, just apologizing pretty much, you know, shedding

0:46:04.960 --> 0:46:05.640
<v Speaker 11>some tears.

0:46:06.160 --> 0:46:06.760
<v Speaker 5>It was sad.

0:46:07.160 --> 0:46:08.840
<v Speaker 3>It was terrible. It's terrible.

0:46:09.560 --> 0:46:11.440
<v Speaker 11>Every now and then, for whatever reason, he would like

0:46:11.600 --> 0:46:14.520
<v Speaker 11>rotate ninety degrees and then get a paw on each

0:46:14.560 --> 0:46:15.480
<v Speaker 11>one of my shoulders.

0:46:16.040 --> 0:46:18.200
<v Speaker 5>I kind of like even put his chin on my

0:46:18.360 --> 0:46:21.680
<v Speaker 5>one shoulder and like, oh my gosh, kill me.

0:46:22.440 --> 0:46:26.680
<v Speaker 11>Yeah yeah, but then he'd like he'd go the other

0:46:26.719 --> 0:46:29.120
<v Speaker 11>way and he'd almost like his head would like get

0:46:29.120 --> 0:46:31.080
<v Speaker 11>too far back and kind of get floppy.

0:46:31.120 --> 0:46:33.399
<v Speaker 5>I'd have to look to make sure he's still with.

0:46:33.400 --> 0:46:35.680
<v Speaker 3>Me, you know. Oh man, I felt terrible for you

0:46:35.719 --> 0:46:36.160
<v Speaker 3>guys that.

0:46:36.160 --> 0:46:38.560
<v Speaker 11>Day, But yeah, we can get a loaded up in

0:46:38.719 --> 0:46:40.799
<v Speaker 11>it comes with me. Steve still had to go and

0:46:41.000 --> 0:46:46.279
<v Speaker 11>UH had some unfinished business on that trail. And so

0:46:46.520 --> 0:46:48.799
<v Speaker 11>just Iron and I took mingus in and there's only

0:46:48.840 --> 0:46:52.080
<v Speaker 11>one place to get emergency VET services uh here in

0:46:52.120 --> 0:46:54.600
<v Speaker 11>the Greater Bozeman area, So we.

0:46:54.600 --> 0:46:55.880
<v Speaker 5>Went there and.

0:46:58.280 --> 0:47:00.600
<v Speaker 11>Trying trying to make a little bit faster here, but

0:47:01.360 --> 0:47:03.560
<v Speaker 11>we spent a couple hours in there. As they're checking

0:47:03.640 --> 0:47:06.080
<v Speaker 11>him out, he's obviously he was very cold. They had

0:47:06.080 --> 0:47:12.000
<v Speaker 11>to bring his coretent back up. The shallow breathing. The

0:47:12.040 --> 0:47:17.640
<v Speaker 11>injury was called pneumo thorax, which basically is air inside

0:47:17.640 --> 0:47:21.360
<v Speaker 11>of you know, your chest that's between your chest lining

0:47:21.440 --> 0:47:24.359
<v Speaker 11>and your lungs, and so when you have air in there,

0:47:24.760 --> 0:47:28.040
<v Speaker 11>it prevents the lungs from actually expanding and doing what.

0:47:27.960 --> 0:47:28.759
<v Speaker 5>They're supposed to do.

0:47:28.920 --> 0:47:30.279
<v Speaker 3>Hence the crazy noise.

0:47:30.160 --> 0:47:32.120
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, and the super shallow breathing.

0:47:33.760 --> 0:47:37.120
<v Speaker 11>So they basically just stick like I don't know this

0:47:37.239 --> 0:47:40.520
<v Speaker 11>is exactly right, but it's like a syringe that's meant

0:47:40.520 --> 0:47:43.439
<v Speaker 11>for pulling air out. So they just, yeah, they vent

0:47:43.480 --> 0:47:45.800
<v Speaker 11>them and I think after they do it three or

0:47:45.840 --> 0:47:49.120
<v Speaker 11>four times, it actually just stick like a tube in

0:47:49.160 --> 0:47:51.839
<v Speaker 11>there and just constantly keep pulling it. But it took him.

0:47:52.040 --> 0:47:53.799
<v Speaker 11>They said on the fourth time they would go to

0:47:53.840 --> 0:47:56.320
<v Speaker 11>the tube. They only did it three times they pulled

0:47:56.320 --> 0:47:58.800
<v Speaker 11>like two liters air out of there and that was

0:47:58.880 --> 0:48:03.799
<v Speaker 11>kind of the end of that. All those lacerations he had,

0:48:03.840 --> 0:48:06.640
<v Speaker 11>I don't know, thirty forty some stitches and staples kind

0:48:06.640 --> 0:48:10.800
<v Speaker 11>of all over. They shaved any part where there was

0:48:10.840 --> 0:48:16.640
<v Speaker 11>any trauma on that dog when he came home. When

0:48:16.719 --> 0:48:19.840
<v Speaker 11>he came home, half of him was shaved, like his

0:48:20.000 --> 0:48:24.200
<v Speaker 11>rear end. Because yeah, you just start to you know,

0:48:24.239 --> 0:48:26.680
<v Speaker 11>because you're fixated on different things of what's going on

0:48:26.760 --> 0:48:28.440
<v Speaker 11>with the dog, and so it takes a day or

0:48:28.480 --> 0:48:31.080
<v Speaker 11>two you start paying close for attention. But he was

0:48:31.160 --> 0:48:35.359
<v Speaker 11>rear end was the whole thing was just purple for

0:48:35.640 --> 0:48:38.280
<v Speaker 11>a week, you know from the impact.

0:48:39.400 --> 0:48:42.360
<v Speaker 5>Did they give you the talk like before any of

0:48:42.360 --> 0:48:46.600
<v Speaker 5>this happened where they're kind of like, here's your options

0:48:46.600 --> 0:48:47.879
<v Speaker 5>and how much are you willing to spend?

0:48:48.000 --> 0:48:50.480
<v Speaker 11>Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah that one for sure, Like

0:48:50.560 --> 0:48:53.000
<v Speaker 11>you knew very quickly what it was going to take.

0:48:53.040 --> 0:48:55.799
<v Speaker 11>And so I had to have that conversation with my gallant,

0:48:55.920 --> 0:48:59.080
<v Speaker 11>and yeah, I feel like I owe a lot of

0:48:59.080 --> 0:49:02.319
<v Speaker 11>people and apology because I for sure have sort of

0:49:02.360 --> 0:49:05.600
<v Speaker 11>poked fun in anybody that spent I always said, crist

0:49:05.960 --> 0:49:09.200
<v Speaker 11>five K is my limit, and I was like, you

0:49:09.200 --> 0:49:12.360
<v Speaker 11>did what your dog got acy l surgery, you dumbass.

0:49:12.480 --> 0:49:14.640
<v Speaker 2>You know that's that was one of the first things

0:49:14.680 --> 0:49:16.400
<v Speaker 2>I mentioned you after we knew the dog would be

0:49:16.400 --> 0:49:18.080
<v Speaker 2>all right. I was like, if someone had taken you

0:49:18.120 --> 0:49:21.239
<v Speaker 2>aside a month ago and said, how much would you

0:49:21.239 --> 0:49:23.640
<v Speaker 2>put into that dog and vet care before you pull

0:49:23.719 --> 0:49:25.680
<v Speaker 2>the plug and got a new one, and you'd be

0:49:25.800 --> 0:49:28.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, you'd think about it four or five grand

0:49:28.560 --> 0:49:29.840
<v Speaker 2>I suppose, you know whatever. I don't know what the

0:49:29.880 --> 0:49:32.400
<v Speaker 2>number would be, but you'd have some number. But then

0:49:32.440 --> 0:49:36.120
<v Speaker 2>you get in the actual situation and there's like this

0:49:36.239 --> 0:49:38.240
<v Speaker 2>leads to that, and you got to bring it down

0:49:38.880 --> 0:49:42.479
<v Speaker 2>and then find out what's going on, and then there's

0:49:42.640 --> 0:49:46.080
<v Speaker 2>all this emotional stuff and you're the daughters are involved,

0:49:46.120 --> 0:49:48.040
<v Speaker 2>and you can just see how it runs away with

0:49:48.080 --> 0:49:52.759
<v Speaker 2>itself totally. You know. It's not like, you know, it's

0:49:52.760 --> 0:49:54.719
<v Speaker 2>not like you get up there and someone says, okay,

0:49:54.800 --> 0:49:58.279
<v Speaker 2>now's your decision moment. You know, is this worth ten

0:49:58.400 --> 0:49:59.600
<v Speaker 2>k or not worth ten k?

0:50:00.440 --> 0:50:04.919
<v Speaker 3>You know, but it's I don't know, may'll be dead.

0:50:05.000 --> 0:50:06.920
<v Speaker 2>Maybe it's three hundred dollars, but I just you know,

0:50:06.960 --> 0:50:10.840
<v Speaker 2>you can't you just go and then it's snowballs and

0:50:11.160 --> 0:50:13.360
<v Speaker 2>then there you are the massive vethist.

0:50:13.600 --> 0:50:13.880
<v Speaker 5>Dude.

0:50:14.280 --> 0:50:18.160
<v Speaker 11>They were pretty spot on with once they kind of

0:50:18.160 --> 0:50:21.040
<v Speaker 11>had him stabilized and had and they knew what was

0:50:21.080 --> 0:50:24.239
<v Speaker 11>going on. So basically the only he had a mild concussion.

0:50:24.320 --> 0:50:26.319
<v Speaker 11>They gave him some drugs and he popped right out

0:50:26.320 --> 0:50:28.960
<v Speaker 11>of that. He had the newmo thorax. They pumped that out.

0:50:29.000 --> 0:50:32.239
<v Speaker 11>They gave him whatever, thirty forty stitches and staples all over.

0:50:32.719 --> 0:50:33.479
<v Speaker 5>Not a big deal.

0:50:34.200 --> 0:50:34.319
<v Speaker 7>Uh.

0:50:34.440 --> 0:50:37.600
<v Speaker 11>The one broken bone from falling forty feet basically straight

0:50:37.640 --> 0:50:38.280
<v Speaker 11>to rock.

0:50:38.320 --> 0:50:39.800
<v Speaker 3>Was it the leg I thought was broken at the

0:50:39.840 --> 0:50:40.400
<v Speaker 3>lego though was.

0:50:40.880 --> 0:50:45.840
<v Speaker 11>One of his left rear legs has a fractured botella,

0:50:46.120 --> 0:50:52.120
<v Speaker 11>so he broke his kneecap and uh but anyways, Yeah,

0:50:52.120 --> 0:50:54.600
<v Speaker 11>so once they had him stabilized, they were able to

0:50:54.600 --> 0:50:56.080
<v Speaker 11>call us and be like, this is what it's going

0:50:56.120 --> 0:50:56.480
<v Speaker 11>to cost.

0:50:56.560 --> 0:50:58.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Yeah, by that point you already carried him all

0:50:58.600 --> 0:51:00.520
<v Speaker 3>that way and all that is different.

0:51:01.120 --> 0:51:03.880
<v Speaker 11>Oh yeah, and then you're like, okay, well, what's it

0:51:03.880 --> 0:51:05.520
<v Speaker 11>going to cause? You canna just put him to sleep?

0:51:05.600 --> 0:51:08.120
<v Speaker 11>And then I'm gonna either lie to my daughter so

0:51:08.160 --> 0:51:09.560
<v Speaker 11>that he didn't make it through the night.

0:51:10.800 --> 0:51:13.440
<v Speaker 3>I told the vet money is no objects.

0:51:17.120 --> 0:51:17.319
<v Speaker 7>Yeah.

0:51:20.239 --> 0:51:22.440
<v Speaker 9>Yeah, but it's not like he would have like the

0:51:22.520 --> 0:51:25.359
<v Speaker 9>putt in the sleep thing. If they had just stopped care,

0:51:25.480 --> 0:51:28.200
<v Speaker 9>he wouldn't have just like died on his own, you

0:51:28.280 --> 0:51:28.799
<v Speaker 9>know what I mean?

0:51:29.320 --> 0:51:30.279
<v Speaker 8>No, Like, how could you.

0:51:32.600 --> 0:51:35.960
<v Speaker 3>It's like they'd actively have to put him down. Yeah,

0:51:36.080 --> 0:51:39.080
<v Speaker 3>isn't free you have a dog run around with broken

0:51:39.320 --> 0:51:40.560
<v Speaker 3>I don't know, maybe no.

0:51:40.719 --> 0:51:43.760
<v Speaker 11>I asked about that and they said, basically, the leg

0:51:43.840 --> 0:51:47.319
<v Speaker 11>would just atrophyed and nothing, and then you end up

0:51:47.360 --> 0:51:50.080
<v Speaker 11>having to amputat it and it wouldn't be a good deal.

0:51:50.200 --> 0:51:52.360
<v Speaker 3>And I told you my theory about three le dogs.

0:51:53.000 --> 0:51:55.239
<v Speaker 11>Oh listen, I was ready to go there. I need

0:51:55.280 --> 0:51:56.840
<v Speaker 11>to check up on this because they told me that

0:51:56.960 --> 0:51:59.799
<v Speaker 11>was pretty much gonna be the same price to go

0:52:00.080 --> 0:52:03.319
<v Speaker 11>to a three legged dog to what we we we

0:52:03.360 --> 0:52:03.799
<v Speaker 11>paid for.

0:52:03.880 --> 0:52:06.040
<v Speaker 2>And I was like, that's a bargain because people like

0:52:06.120 --> 0:52:07.280
<v Speaker 2>them three legged dogs.

0:52:07.320 --> 0:52:07.520
<v Speaker 8>Man.

0:52:08.000 --> 0:52:10.719
<v Speaker 5>Look, I would have had no problem running a three

0:52:10.760 --> 0:52:14.200
<v Speaker 5>legged hound. I know a couple of the film.

0:52:13.960 --> 0:52:17.400
<v Speaker 2>About you if you started, if you started catching lines

0:52:17.440 --> 0:52:19.279
<v Speaker 2>with a three legged dog, they had made a hole

0:52:19.280 --> 0:52:22.480
<v Speaker 2>of the Eddy movie. It'd be like the sad part

0:52:22.680 --> 0:52:25.720
<v Speaker 2>with the sad music and yeah, like if.

0:52:25.560 --> 0:52:27.040
<v Speaker 5>You took them both off and we got one of

0:52:27.040 --> 0:52:30.600
<v Speaker 5>those wheelie cards. How much that that off road mountain

0:52:30.640 --> 0:52:34.560
<v Speaker 5>bike tires on the back before we get take before

0:52:34.560 --> 0:52:36.680
<v Speaker 5>we leave that the first night.

0:52:38.520 --> 0:52:42.799
<v Speaker 11>That everything's kind of set, these stabilized, we're like, all right,

0:52:42.840 --> 0:52:45.640
<v Speaker 11>we'll get a phone call from you later. And they're like, yeah,

0:52:45.719 --> 0:52:48.359
<v Speaker 11>surgery probably tomorrow, or go home and discuss with your

0:52:48.880 --> 0:52:50.759
<v Speaker 11>family on you know, if you guys want to pay,

0:52:50.920 --> 0:52:53.600
<v Speaker 11>et cetera. But they're like, oh, you want to come

0:52:53.640 --> 0:52:55.520
<v Speaker 11>back real quick and just say, you know, give him

0:52:55.520 --> 0:52:58.640
<v Speaker 11>a kiss and say bye and check him out. I'm like, yeah, sure,

0:52:58.680 --> 0:53:00.680
<v Speaker 11>that sounds like a great idea, you know what. I

0:53:00.760 --> 0:53:03.799
<v Speaker 11>wasn't thinking like goodbye as in forever, but just like go,

0:53:04.000 --> 0:53:06.839
<v Speaker 11>you know, give a pat on the back. And we

0:53:06.920 --> 0:53:09.160
<v Speaker 11>walk in there and it's just him laying on this table.

0:53:09.200 --> 0:53:12.560
<v Speaker 11>I mean, there's people kind of milling out and about girls.

0:53:13.040 --> 0:53:15.680
<v Speaker 11>Just just sign him and we walk over there, and

0:53:15.760 --> 0:53:18.440
<v Speaker 11>when we're like maybe five feet from the table, you

0:53:18.560 --> 0:53:20.320
<v Speaker 11>kind of you're like, oh, you see the big blanket

0:53:20.360 --> 0:53:22.680
<v Speaker 11>and he's got the little mask on, you know, helping him.

0:53:22.719 --> 0:53:26.920
<v Speaker 11>So he's like not looking great, shaved everywhere and you're

0:53:27.120 --> 0:53:28.879
<v Speaker 11>kind of like, you know, your heart sinks a little

0:53:28.920 --> 0:53:31.120
<v Speaker 11>bit to see your buddy in such a bad steak

0:53:31.160 --> 0:53:33.160
<v Speaker 11>because he's not really like you don't even look up

0:53:33.160 --> 0:53:35.440
<v Speaker 11>at you when you walk in there, and right is

0:53:35.480 --> 0:53:37.480
<v Speaker 11>we're like getting to be a little bit closer where

0:53:37.480 --> 0:53:40.200
<v Speaker 11>we're gonna like put our hands on him. The machine

0:53:40.200 --> 0:53:41.200
<v Speaker 11>next to him goes.

0:53:43.160 --> 0:53:44.960
<v Speaker 13>And all of a sudden, there's a dude running over

0:53:45.000 --> 0:53:49.160
<v Speaker 13>and he's like, don so, I need seven milligrams of this. No,

0:53:49.680 --> 0:53:51.759
<v Speaker 13>make a tent and prepare a backup, And all of

0:53:51.760 --> 0:53:54.440
<v Speaker 13>a sudden, it's like there's five people around him and

0:53:54.480 --> 0:53:56.239
<v Speaker 13>we're like pushed out, and I mean it's like an

0:53:56.600 --> 0:53:57.520
<v Speaker 13>er scene, you know, like.

0:53:57.440 --> 0:53:58.520
<v Speaker 3>You had little paddles.

0:53:58.600 --> 0:53:59.759
<v Speaker 5>Clear, Yeah it was.

0:54:00.239 --> 0:54:02.400
<v Speaker 13>It was gonna be that suit. And it looks at

0:54:02.400 --> 0:54:04.640
<v Speaker 13>me like, what the F They just told us he

0:54:04.719 --> 0:54:05.720
<v Speaker 13>was stable.

0:54:05.320 --> 0:54:07.040
<v Speaker 8>You know, I'm like, yeah, I don't know.

0:54:07.680 --> 0:54:10.520
<v Speaker 11>Well his uh he had had just like a little

0:54:10.560 --> 0:54:14.040
<v Speaker 11>heart arrhythmia and uh and he got the same problem.

0:54:14.120 --> 0:54:16.919
<v Speaker 5>It was all yeah, his is gone away, I think.

0:54:17.200 --> 0:54:20.279
<v Speaker 11>But it was just cause from that impact and the

0:54:20.320 --> 0:54:22.560
<v Speaker 11>trauma to the heart, you know, that's what caused that

0:54:22.600 --> 0:54:26.919
<v Speaker 11>pneumo thorax. Too, was just such impact that some part

0:54:26.920 --> 0:54:29.560
<v Speaker 11>of the lung, whether it's like a burst of sack

0:54:29.680 --> 0:54:32.680
<v Speaker 11>or an alveoli, but some end part of the lobe

0:54:32.760 --> 0:54:36.680
<v Speaker 11>just goes and like pops open and literally releases air

0:54:36.880 --> 0:54:41.120
<v Speaker 11>into your chest. You can have internal which is neumo thorax,

0:54:41.120 --> 0:54:44.200
<v Speaker 11>which is what he had, or you can have external pneumothorax,

0:54:44.480 --> 0:54:46.880
<v Speaker 11>which is if your you know, rib cage actually got

0:54:46.960 --> 0:54:48.839
<v Speaker 11>punctured and air got in that way.

0:54:49.600 --> 0:54:51.239
<v Speaker 3>You know, I'm learning about myself right now.

0:54:51.960 --> 0:54:53.839
<v Speaker 2>If you were telling me that about a person, I'd

0:54:53.880 --> 0:54:57.279
<v Speaker 2>be having all these problems because it's a dog.

0:54:57.400 --> 0:54:59.759
<v Speaker 3>I'm not having all these problems. Like if someone tells

0:54:59.760 --> 0:55:02.960
<v Speaker 3>me testicular cancer, my nuts start aching.

0:55:04.800 --> 0:55:05.600
<v Speaker 8>But I hear.

0:55:06.280 --> 0:55:09.080
<v Speaker 3>You can hear all this without having the pain.

0:55:09.800 --> 0:55:12.000
<v Speaker 5>You feel like a pain or just like a strange sensation.

0:55:12.080 --> 0:55:13.240
<v Speaker 3>I feel like, man, I got that problem.

0:55:13.480 --> 0:55:15.120
<v Speaker 9>It's like a sympathetic pregnancy.

0:55:15.239 --> 0:55:19.040
<v Speaker 3>Steve Gatz, Yeah, yeah, I'm just noticing that for some reason,

0:55:19.080 --> 0:55:21.160
<v Speaker 3>if you were explaining that in that kind of grand detail,

0:55:21.800 --> 0:55:28.320
<v Speaker 3>my lungs like, there's.

0:55:29.000 --> 0:55:31.560
<v Speaker 11>So yeah, he's he They put a what's called the

0:55:31.719 --> 0:55:35.600
<v Speaker 11>external fixater around his rear leg, which is basically this

0:55:35.800 --> 0:55:39.560
<v Speaker 11>bracket that has pins that all go into different bones

0:55:39.600 --> 0:55:42.400
<v Speaker 11>that are holding things together. And now the external fixer

0:55:42.480 --> 0:55:46.160
<v Speaker 11>actually has a piston looks just like the piston on

0:55:46.320 --> 0:55:51.360
<v Speaker 11>the hatch on your topper that holds your your window open.

0:55:51.719 --> 0:55:55.040
<v Speaker 11>And then they adjust it and and give him more

0:55:55.160 --> 0:55:56.360
<v Speaker 11>range of motions.

0:55:56.160 --> 0:55:57.120
<v Speaker 3>When he's done with that.

0:55:57.200 --> 0:55:59.200
<v Speaker 4>Can I have the piston because I've been using a

0:55:59.200 --> 0:56:02.200
<v Speaker 4>broom that my windshield for months now.

0:56:02.360 --> 0:56:04.480
<v Speaker 5>You know, I think luckily they don't they take it

0:56:04.600 --> 0:56:06.600
<v Speaker 5>back and so that saves you a little bit of money.

0:56:06.640 --> 0:56:09.560
<v Speaker 5>Oh yeah, so I won't own that piece of hardware.

0:56:09.680 --> 0:56:12.600
<v Speaker 3>When when we're all done, you take a bid from them,

0:56:12.640 --> 0:56:16.799
<v Speaker 3>and yeah, just compare with my the the shop down there.

0:56:16.840 --> 0:56:18.600
<v Speaker 8>You know, how did how did you? How did you

0:56:18.600 --> 0:56:20.000
<v Speaker 8>carry him out on the snowmobile.

0:56:20.920 --> 0:56:24.000
<v Speaker 11>We have a sled like a dog box that sits

0:56:24.040 --> 0:56:27.040
<v Speaker 11>on a sled that's like a trailer behind the snowmobile.

0:56:27.239 --> 0:56:29.719
<v Speaker 5>So we just loaded him right into his box and.

0:56:29.640 --> 0:56:31.200
<v Speaker 3>He wrapped him up in his down jacket.

0:56:31.280 --> 0:56:33.520
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, try to make try to warm him up a

0:56:33.520 --> 0:56:33.960
<v Speaker 5>little bit.

0:56:34.960 --> 0:56:36.320
<v Speaker 3>So if anyone wants to send you on you a

0:56:36.360 --> 0:56:39.439
<v Speaker 3>bunch of money, that's what he'll do. It is he'll

0:56:39.440 --> 0:56:40.719
<v Speaker 3>turn around and give it to his VET.

0:56:41.040 --> 0:56:43.919
<v Speaker 11>Yeah, so it's a it's a it's a big it's

0:56:43.920 --> 0:56:44.720
<v Speaker 11>a big number.

0:56:44.960 --> 0:56:45.080
<v Speaker 8>Uh.

0:56:45.640 --> 0:56:47.479
<v Speaker 3>Did you do you get a payment plan like he's

0:56:47.480 --> 0:56:48.800
<v Speaker 3>supposed to come up with that kind of money.

0:56:49.680 --> 0:56:53.640
<v Speaker 11>Yeah, they actually have a uh there's like an emergency

0:56:53.840 --> 0:56:59.320
<v Speaker 11>VET credit that you can get for with super low uh,

0:56:59.440 --> 0:57:01.280
<v Speaker 11>with pretty low interest from.

0:57:01.080 --> 0:57:05.759
<v Speaker 5>Who it's it's that's what through the VET. Well, I

0:57:05.800 --> 0:57:07.239
<v Speaker 5>mean they advertised like a.

0:57:07.200 --> 0:57:10.279
<v Speaker 4>Third party financing option.

0:57:12.120 --> 0:57:12.480
<v Speaker 3>For that.

0:57:12.719 --> 0:57:14.759
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, he's right. It writes it up while you're there.

0:57:16.160 --> 0:57:17.560
<v Speaker 8>Let me go ask my manager.

0:57:19.600 --> 0:57:21.520
<v Speaker 4>It's a great it's a great business plan because you're

0:57:21.560 --> 0:57:23.280
<v Speaker 4>just sitting around, like who should I lend money to?

0:57:23.400 --> 0:57:24.840
<v Speaker 4>Who's gonna spend the money?

0:57:24.920 --> 0:57:29.960
<v Speaker 3>No matter what. So the VET offers like financing or

0:57:30.000 --> 0:57:31.400
<v Speaker 3>it's a third party. It's a third party.

0:57:31.400 --> 0:57:35.400
<v Speaker 4>It's like crit over, you know, like on Yeah, I

0:57:35.440 --> 0:57:36.919
<v Speaker 4>was looking at it the other day when I paid

0:57:36.920 --> 0:57:37.600
<v Speaker 4>a big VET bill.

0:57:38.240 --> 0:57:38.960
<v Speaker 3>I just wonder if I.

0:57:38.960 --> 0:57:41.000
<v Speaker 11>Could do it, Like now you got to make payments,

0:57:41.880 --> 0:57:44.000
<v Speaker 11>you know, I don't know, if we haven't figured out

0:57:44.040 --> 0:57:46.280
<v Speaker 11>exactly how we're gonna do it, we'll probably just take

0:57:46.320 --> 0:57:48.360
<v Speaker 11>a you know, big chunk out of savings and just

0:57:48.400 --> 0:57:49.000
<v Speaker 11>knock it out.

0:57:49.120 --> 0:57:52.360
<v Speaker 2>You know, man, better than that you dog every time

0:57:52.360 --> 0:57:52.800
<v Speaker 2>you see him.

0:57:53.760 --> 0:57:55.960
<v Speaker 11>Well, you know, it's funny because that dog is a

0:57:56.120 --> 0:57:59.200
<v Speaker 11>you know, pound puppy, sheltered dog, whatever you want to

0:57:59.240 --> 0:57:59.680
<v Speaker 11>call him.

0:58:00.360 --> 0:58:01.800
<v Speaker 3>Now you can just you bought him for a lot

0:58:01.800 --> 0:58:02.160
<v Speaker 3>of money.

0:58:02.200 --> 0:58:06.520
<v Speaker 11>Yeah, yeah, he was like a hunt because pound dogs

0:58:06.520 --> 0:58:07.040
<v Speaker 11>aren't free.

0:58:07.080 --> 0:58:11.760
<v Speaker 5>They still make you pay for Yeah, it's like seventy five.

0:58:13.360 --> 0:58:15.200
<v Speaker 3>You just really boosted his pedigree there.

0:58:15.360 --> 0:58:17.360
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, totally. I better get his papers.

0:58:17.400 --> 0:58:19.520
<v Speaker 2>Now people ask Yannie how much he paid for that dog.

0:58:19.560 --> 0:58:21.120
<v Speaker 2>He had to start the story by going.

0:58:21.040 --> 0:58:23.440
<v Speaker 8>Well is it genuine racehorse?

0:58:23.520 --> 0:58:23.720
<v Speaker 3>Now?

0:58:24.000 --> 0:58:28.320
<v Speaker 11>Just like so, yeah, he's fine. Now he's uh, he's

0:58:28.480 --> 0:58:30.640
<v Speaker 11>he's going. He's not going stir crazy you think he

0:58:30.680 --> 0:58:32.960
<v Speaker 11>would be. I mean he wants to go out, he can't.

0:58:33.000 --> 0:58:35.080
<v Speaker 11>You can't just let him roam. He's basically got to

0:58:35.080 --> 0:58:35.760
<v Speaker 11>be on a leash.

0:58:35.760 --> 0:58:38.240
<v Speaker 3>It was a season ender.

0:58:37.480 --> 0:58:40.720
<v Speaker 5>Oh yeah, there's no no more cat hunting here.

0:58:40.760 --> 0:58:43.520
<v Speaker 2>And Yanni lost his appetite for cat hunting. He doesn't

0:58:43.520 --> 0:58:45.240
<v Speaker 2>like doing it without his own dog, he said.

0:58:45.240 --> 0:58:48.000
<v Speaker 5>Oh yeah, I mean he went, he went.

0:58:47.880 --> 0:58:49.959
<v Speaker 3>With someone else's dog. He said, it wasn't the same. Yeah,

0:58:50.080 --> 0:58:51.960
<v Speaker 3>it was still fun just not the same.

0:58:51.880 --> 0:58:53.720
<v Speaker 8>Right, But he did jump off a cliff that's.

0:58:55.080 --> 0:58:57.800
<v Speaker 5>In the game. So what I was amazed at this.

0:58:57.840 --> 0:59:00.080
<v Speaker 5>When we were chatting on on text, they said it

0:59:00.120 --> 0:59:05.640
<v Speaker 5>was like ninety recovery, like to full phone recovery for

0:59:05.760 --> 0:59:09.680
<v Speaker 5>that back leg. Yeah yeah, right, yeah, yeah, great. So

0:59:09.720 --> 0:59:11.160
<v Speaker 5>it won't be like new but I think, I mean,

0:59:11.160 --> 0:59:12.560
<v Speaker 5>he'll be able to hunt, no problem.

0:59:13.080 --> 0:59:13.960
<v Speaker 8>How old does he take?

0:59:14.160 --> 0:59:17.800
<v Speaker 5>Four him? He's got another at least, you know, four

0:59:17.800 --> 0:59:18.160
<v Speaker 5>to six.

0:59:18.240 --> 0:59:20.120
<v Speaker 3>I wouldn't think, I say, I'd get him right back

0:59:20.160 --> 0:59:23.400
<v Speaker 3>to that same spot. See if you learned anything.

0:59:23.360 --> 0:59:24.440
<v Speaker 5>Shock the ship out of him.

0:59:25.960 --> 0:59:29.320
<v Speaker 4>No, no, no, cliff, yeah, there's nothing. Not a bad

0:59:29.320 --> 0:59:30.960
<v Speaker 4>idea to put him up on top of the cliff

0:59:30.960 --> 0:59:31.640
<v Speaker 4>and then shock him.

0:59:31.640 --> 0:59:33.800
<v Speaker 3>Now, you know, he'll find that he never goes left

0:59:33.840 --> 0:59:37.640
<v Speaker 3>ever again. Yeah, your dog that only goes right.

0:59:38.360 --> 0:59:40.720
<v Speaker 11>It'll be interesting to see if he does have any

0:59:41.200 --> 0:59:45.240
<v Speaker 11>uh you know post you know trauma, you know from it?

0:59:45.720 --> 0:59:46.640
<v Speaker 3>Did he learn from it?

0:59:46.760 --> 0:59:50.560
<v Speaker 5>I remember, as hard headed as that dog is, I

0:59:50.560 --> 0:59:52.400
<v Speaker 5>don't think so. I doubt it.

0:59:53.480 --> 0:59:54.200
<v Speaker 3>Thanks for sharing.

0:59:54.480 --> 0:59:56.640
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, thanks for being there and helping out. It would

0:59:56.640 --> 1:00:00.120
<v Speaker 5>have been uh even tougher it had just been me

1:00:00.160 --> 1:00:01.120
<v Speaker 5>and my girls Yeah.

1:00:01.320 --> 1:00:03.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to say it was fun, but I'm

1:00:03.040 --> 1:00:04.440
<v Speaker 2>glad it worked out the way it did because, like

1:00:04.440 --> 1:00:06.080
<v Speaker 2>I said, I felt terrible for you guys.

1:00:06.360 --> 1:00:08.920
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it was uh, mostly felt terrible.

1:00:08.600 --> 1:00:10.280
<v Speaker 3>For your girls because that would have been a hard

1:00:10.520 --> 1:00:13.800
<v Speaker 3>little trip. Yeah.

1:00:14.120 --> 1:00:15.560
<v Speaker 8>Yeah. Oh.

1:00:15.760 --> 1:00:19.760
<v Speaker 11>The one other sort of silver lining out of this

1:00:19.920 --> 1:00:23.800
<v Speaker 11>is I wasn't even really bringing it up, but uh,

1:00:24.440 --> 1:00:26.280
<v Speaker 11>because I don't know if it was Jennifer that was

1:00:26.280 --> 1:00:29.240
<v Speaker 11>like seeing like how bumna I was about how the

1:00:29.280 --> 1:00:31.960
<v Speaker 11>season ended for us, and how like it was, you know,

1:00:32.400 --> 1:00:35.160
<v Speaker 11>no more line hunting for me and mingus. You know,

1:00:35.320 --> 1:00:39.120
<v Speaker 11>it's we're done for till next year. But uh, she

1:00:39.240 --> 1:00:41.520
<v Speaker 11>pretty much is given the go ahead for number two,

1:00:42.520 --> 1:00:44.520
<v Speaker 11>So another one.

1:00:44.920 --> 1:00:46.960
<v Speaker 2>It wouldn't be so bad. If I had a second dog,

1:00:48.840 --> 1:00:49.920
<v Speaker 2>I'd still be in the race.

1:00:51.840 --> 1:00:55.200
<v Speaker 5>Oh yeah, so yeah, get August.

1:00:55.240 --> 1:00:58.000
<v Speaker 11>I think we'll have a puppy.

1:00:58.360 --> 1:01:10.280
<v Speaker 3>That's awesome, man. Yeah, all right, Dan, you're ready to

1:01:10.280 --> 1:01:10.640
<v Speaker 3>dive in.

1:01:11.880 --> 1:01:14.000
<v Speaker 8>I've been doing this for the last five months.

1:01:14.400 --> 1:01:16.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's all you've been doing is diving. You you

1:01:16.280 --> 1:01:16.800
<v Speaker 3>already dove?

1:01:16.920 --> 1:01:18.920
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, I dove. I fell off a cliff that they

1:01:18.920 --> 1:01:19.280
<v Speaker 8>found me.

1:01:19.400 --> 1:01:25.120
<v Speaker 2>I was gurgling, Uh, layout who you lay out your

1:01:25.160 --> 1:01:28.120
<v Speaker 2>organization first, and then lay out uh, and then just

1:01:28.200 --> 1:01:31.000
<v Speaker 2>kind of give the give the rundown of what When I.

1:01:31.000 --> 1:01:33.240
<v Speaker 3>Said, what's going on in Colorado? What tell us what's

1:01:33.280 --> 1:01:36.080
<v Speaker 3>up with Colorado? Well, first give a thorough in introduction

1:01:36.120 --> 1:01:36.560
<v Speaker 3>of yourself.

1:01:36.600 --> 1:01:38.840
<v Speaker 8>So I'm Dan Gage. I'm the executive director for the

1:01:38.840 --> 1:01:42.640
<v Speaker 8>Colorado's for Responsible Wildlife Management. And it's a five O

1:01:42.720 --> 1:01:44.000
<v Speaker 8>one C four organization.

1:01:44.760 --> 1:01:44.880
<v Speaker 7>Uh.

1:01:45.120 --> 1:01:47.480
<v Speaker 8>Our mission is to enhance, promote, and defend the North

1:01:47.520 --> 1:01:51.800
<v Speaker 8>American model of wildlife conservation and responsible wildlife management. And

1:01:51.840 --> 1:01:54.520
<v Speaker 8>so we're not a we're not a membership organization, UH,

1:01:55.160 --> 1:01:59.680
<v Speaker 8>but we do advocacy work and education work on a

1:01:59.680 --> 1:02:01.880
<v Speaker 8>Friday at different levels, and we have three full time

1:02:01.920 --> 1:02:04.960
<v Speaker 8>lobbyists at the Colorida Capitol. We fight through the legislative

1:02:05.000 --> 1:02:07.640
<v Speaker 8>side of things and the regulatory side through the Parks

1:02:07.640 --> 1:02:11.600
<v Speaker 8>and Wallife Commission. And now we've been dealt a citizen's

1:02:11.600 --> 1:02:16.600
<v Speaker 8>initiative to bring it to a ballot for November fifth

1:02:16.600 --> 1:02:19.320
<v Speaker 8>of this year to ban the harvest of mountain lions, bobcats,

1:02:19.680 --> 1:02:21.640
<v Speaker 8>and the red herring on that as links. I heard

1:02:21.680 --> 1:02:23.959
<v Speaker 8>you talk about that before, but I mean links aren't

1:02:23.960 --> 1:02:25.720
<v Speaker 8>harvested full in the lower forty eight. But they want

1:02:25.720 --> 1:02:28.400
<v Speaker 8>to make sure that they never are if they're ever delisted,

1:02:28.440 --> 1:02:30.720
<v Speaker 8>they say, no, we don't want you to ever do

1:02:30.800 --> 1:02:32.280
<v Speaker 8>it if they ever become delisted.

1:02:32.400 --> 1:02:35.439
<v Speaker 9>Dan, when you say a citizen's initiative, can you say where?

1:02:35.480 --> 1:02:38.440
<v Speaker 9>Like that's like, where did it come from?

1:02:38.800 --> 1:02:41.800
<v Speaker 5>I want to clarify it as real quick though you

1:02:41.960 --> 1:02:47.600
<v Speaker 5>said you've been dealt this right. This is an issue

1:02:48.000 --> 1:02:52.240
<v Speaker 5>that Color Addams for Responsible Wildlife Management is fighting against.

1:02:52.040 --> 1:02:56.000
<v Speaker 8>Fighting against. Yeah, we beat similar type issues through the

1:02:56.040 --> 1:02:59.600
<v Speaker 8>Parks and Wallife Commission, and they also the antis the

1:02:59.640 --> 1:03:03.280
<v Speaker 8>extreme went to the General Assembly through the legislature in

1:03:03.320 --> 1:03:05.400
<v Speaker 8>twenty twenty two, and we beat him there. And this

1:03:05.560 --> 1:03:09.240
<v Speaker 8>was their other option to turn around and file an initiative,

1:03:09.280 --> 1:03:12.400
<v Speaker 8>which twenty six states had that available to them, but

1:03:12.520 --> 1:03:15.160
<v Speaker 8>filing the initiative to where they get enough signatures through

1:03:15.200 --> 1:03:16.960
<v Speaker 8>the legal process and then they can put it on

1:03:17.000 --> 1:03:20.040
<v Speaker 8>the ballot for people to vote on in an attempt

1:03:20.400 --> 1:03:22.800
<v Speaker 8>to ban I mean, they call it trophy hunting, even

1:03:22.800 --> 1:03:25.880
<v Speaker 8>though we went through the proper steps that were allowed

1:03:25.880 --> 1:03:28.160
<v Speaker 8>to us or the Secretary of State and the title

1:03:28.200 --> 1:03:31.160
<v Speaker 8>Board and the Supreme Court that we got trophy hunting

1:03:31.240 --> 1:03:33.680
<v Speaker 8>out of the title, but it still remains in the

1:03:33.680 --> 1:03:37.320
<v Speaker 8>measure itself. But it's not trophy hunting. It's a hunting ban.

1:03:37.520 --> 1:03:39.760
<v Speaker 8>It's a mountain lion and bobcat hunting ban is what

1:03:39.800 --> 1:03:40.040
<v Speaker 8>it is.

1:03:40.160 --> 1:03:41.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you don't fill out of question.

1:03:41.360 --> 1:03:45.880
<v Speaker 2>They're asking what you're interested in retaining from the animal,

1:03:45.920 --> 1:03:47.360
<v Speaker 2>and then you get to get a permit if you

1:03:47.400 --> 1:03:48.439
<v Speaker 2>write the right thing down.

1:03:48.600 --> 1:03:53.720
<v Speaker 8>No, No, it's the intent, is their Definitiontive trophy hunting,

1:03:53.760 --> 1:03:59.280
<v Speaker 8>Steve is intentionally killing, wounding, stalking, and trapping a bobcat

1:03:59.400 --> 1:04:03.240
<v Speaker 8>or mountain lion and intentionally killing. It's not trophy hunting.

1:04:03.280 --> 1:04:07.560
<v Speaker 8>That's it's hunting. And the scary part about this is

1:04:07.600 --> 1:04:10.400
<v Speaker 8>that we appreciate the opportunity to continually talk about it.

1:04:10.440 --> 1:04:14.600
<v Speaker 8>But it's an education process because it'll become statutory. I mean,

1:04:14.640 --> 1:04:15.760
<v Speaker 8>it will set a precedent.

1:04:15.960 --> 1:04:17.760
<v Speaker 3>Well, I want you back up a little bit because

1:04:17.760 --> 1:04:19.320
<v Speaker 3>I want to get this the language part of this

1:04:19.360 --> 1:04:25.160
<v Speaker 3>a minute. But how many signatures like tell her about

1:04:25.240 --> 1:04:26.200
<v Speaker 3>initiative works.

1:04:26.480 --> 1:04:29.760
<v Speaker 8>So they file, they file, and it has to go

1:04:29.800 --> 1:04:33.240
<v Speaker 8>through the proper legal processes as in any state. There's

1:04:33.280 --> 1:04:36.160
<v Speaker 8>twenty six states that allow it. But they file and

1:04:36.200 --> 1:04:40.760
<v Speaker 8>then there's an opportunity for arguments from the they're the

1:04:40.800 --> 1:04:43.600
<v Speaker 8>proponents worth the opposers. I was the only objector on

1:04:43.680 --> 1:04:46.160
<v Speaker 8>the entire legal documents through the state.

1:04:46.600 --> 1:04:48.960
<v Speaker 5>When you say they like, who is they?

1:04:49.160 --> 1:04:53.160
<v Speaker 8>So the organization that is doing it is a group

1:04:53.200 --> 1:04:56.480
<v Speaker 8>called Cats Aren't Trophies. It's it's called cats.

1:04:56.600 --> 1:04:57.720
<v Speaker 3>Was it built for this purpose?

1:04:57.800 --> 1:05:01.440
<v Speaker 8>It was built specifically for this person purpose. Yes, But

1:05:01.440 --> 1:05:06.000
<v Speaker 8>but they have deep connections with the Animal Welfare Action,

1:05:06.200 --> 1:05:09.600
<v Speaker 8>Institute for a Humane Economy, which is run by Wayne Piselli,

1:05:09.800 --> 1:05:15.160
<v Speaker 8>the former hs US executive director, and Wild Earth Guardians

1:05:15.720 --> 1:05:18.440
<v Speaker 8>and a variety And if you look at their website,

1:05:18.480 --> 1:05:21.200
<v Speaker 8>there's fifty or sixty different organizations that are all on board.

1:05:21.720 --> 1:05:25.200
<v Speaker 8>But it's Cats Aren't Trophies is the organization.

1:05:25.080 --> 1:05:26.960
<v Speaker 3>Is Center for Biological Diversity on it.

1:05:27.600 --> 1:05:30.760
<v Speaker 8>They're they're on it as far as a supporter, but

1:05:30.800 --> 1:05:32.600
<v Speaker 8>to the best of our knowledge, they haven't put any

1:05:32.640 --> 1:05:33.960
<v Speaker 8>money in that's been trackable.

1:05:34.160 --> 1:05:37.040
<v Speaker 3>Serious club. Everybody is they're on it.

1:05:37.120 --> 1:05:40.120
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, I mean you you look at the you look

1:05:40.160 --> 1:05:43.560
<v Speaker 8>at the Lord as a supporter, yeah, I mean it's

1:05:43.680 --> 1:05:46.000
<v Speaker 8>it's it's gotten to a point to where I think

1:05:46.240 --> 1:05:48.680
<v Speaker 8>they see it as a shiny object, and they're willing

1:05:48.720 --> 1:05:50.400
<v Speaker 8>to turn around and throw their name into the hat

1:05:50.440 --> 1:05:55.080
<v Speaker 8>on every single thing. And the individual people that are

1:05:55.160 --> 1:06:00.760
<v Speaker 8>running the Colorado side of those organizations have been those

1:06:00.760 --> 1:06:02.160
<v Speaker 8>are the ones that we've been fighting for the last

1:06:02.160 --> 1:06:03.840
<v Speaker 8>twenty years anyway. I mean that's a but they just

1:06:03.920 --> 1:06:06.240
<v Speaker 8>keep resurfacing. I mean it's like mushrooms. You get rid

1:06:06.240 --> 1:06:08.480
<v Speaker 8>of them out of your yard, but they're pretty sure

1:06:08.520 --> 1:06:09.480
<v Speaker 8>they show up somewhere else.

1:06:10.160 --> 1:06:14.320
<v Speaker 2>So weird too, because bobcats are an IUCN species of

1:06:14.400 --> 1:06:15.160
<v Speaker 2>Least Concern.

1:06:15.320 --> 1:06:17.280
<v Speaker 8>Yeah. Yeah, there's just so.

1:06:17.360 --> 1:06:20.320
<v Speaker 3>Surprising that Center for Biological Diversity in Sierra Club and

1:06:20.400 --> 1:06:23.320
<v Speaker 3>organizations like that would even be in it when you're

1:06:23.360 --> 1:06:25.120
<v Speaker 3>talking about a species of least concern.

1:06:25.680 --> 1:06:27.960
<v Speaker 5>And that's a great point too, when we talk about

1:06:27.960 --> 1:06:32.160
<v Speaker 5>like they International Union for the Conservation of Nature is

1:06:32.200 --> 1:06:34.560
<v Speaker 5>like the they when people are like, well, they say

1:06:34.560 --> 1:06:38.880
<v Speaker 5>it's okay, or they say they're doing good. It's the

1:06:38.880 --> 1:06:44.800
<v Speaker 5>the convention that people go to to see how everything's doing.

1:06:44.960 --> 1:06:49.560
<v Speaker 5>It's like the science at the back end of all

1:06:50.120 --> 1:06:52.160
<v Speaker 5>biological diversity basically, and.

1:06:51.920 --> 1:06:54.320
<v Speaker 2>What I'm saying, species of least concern they rank out.

1:06:54.400 --> 1:06:56.640
<v Speaker 2>If you're curious about any animal. You can go look

1:06:56.680 --> 1:07:03.840
<v Speaker 2>up the IUCN status any species and its in foreseeable issues, right,

1:07:03.920 --> 1:07:06.960
<v Speaker 2>So you could have stable populations of an animal, but

1:07:07.000 --> 1:07:10.200
<v Speaker 2>they'll look and they'll be like, well, foreseeable issues coming

1:07:10.280 --> 1:07:13.560
<v Speaker 2>up and that will impact the level if you go

1:07:13.600 --> 1:07:18.680
<v Speaker 2>look up a bobcats, bobcats species of Least concerned meaning stable, widespread,

1:07:18.880 --> 1:07:20.440
<v Speaker 2>no foreseeable issues exactly.

1:07:20.720 --> 1:07:22.680
<v Speaker 8>And same with mountain lions. Yeah, I mean, you know,

1:07:22.720 --> 1:07:25.760
<v Speaker 8>mountain lions, mountain lions, and bobcats are so highly regulated

1:07:26.280 --> 1:07:30.160
<v Speaker 8>in the United States that people, you know, it's the fallacies,

1:07:30.200 --> 1:07:32.960
<v Speaker 8>the lies, and the falsehoods of our enemies. As you

1:07:33.040 --> 1:07:35.680
<v Speaker 8>say it enough, people start to believe it, and the

1:07:35.760 --> 1:07:39.400
<v Speaker 8>facts and the data will argue those those points that

1:07:39.440 --> 1:07:43.800
<v Speaker 8>the opposition brings. But bobcats and mountain lions, there's no

1:07:43.960 --> 1:07:45.480
<v Speaker 8>We all know this sitting around the table, but the

1:07:45.520 --> 1:07:47.080
<v Speaker 8>general public for the most part doesn't.

1:07:47.240 --> 1:07:47.320
<v Speaker 3>No.

1:07:47.360 --> 1:07:50.840
<v Speaker 2>And the links thing is funny because links are enjoy

1:07:50.920 --> 1:07:53.720
<v Speaker 2>the highest level of protection that any animal can get

1:07:53.720 --> 1:07:56.120
<v Speaker 2>in America because they're esa.

1:07:56.040 --> 1:07:59.919
<v Speaker 8>Protected exactly exactly. They're harvestable in Canada and the last

1:08:00.560 --> 1:08:03.920
<v Speaker 8>but not down a little entire tired lower lower forty eight.

1:08:03.960 --> 1:08:06.400
<v Speaker 2>They're in dangered species yea, you're protected. Yeah, but there

1:08:06.880 --> 1:08:08.560
<v Speaker 2>state can't. State can't do anything anyway.

1:08:08.680 --> 1:08:10.880
<v Speaker 8>No, it's just like half the wolves that you turn

1:08:10.920 --> 1:08:12.600
<v Speaker 8>around to deal with what we what we have to

1:08:12.600 --> 1:08:16.240
<v Speaker 8>deal with in Colorado. Wolves are not on the endangered

1:08:16.240 --> 1:08:19.280
<v Speaker 8>species list in the Northern Rockies, but they're going to

1:08:19.320 --> 1:08:21.880
<v Speaker 8>be in Colorado just because we brought them there. But

1:08:22.000 --> 1:08:24.519
<v Speaker 8>it's the same wolves that came from Oregon, that probably

1:08:24.600 --> 1:08:29.280
<v Speaker 8>came from somewhere else that it's it's the lies that

1:08:29.280 --> 1:08:31.400
<v Speaker 8>that our opposition wants to be able to bring to

1:08:31.439 --> 1:08:33.439
<v Speaker 8>the table, and they, like I say, if they say

1:08:33.439 --> 1:08:35.200
<v Speaker 8>it enough, it just becomes the truth as far as

1:08:35.200 --> 1:08:37.280
<v Speaker 8>they're concerned. And what we're trying to do is make

1:08:37.320 --> 1:08:39.439
<v Speaker 8>sure that the general public, not just in Colorado, I

1:08:39.479 --> 1:08:42.599
<v Speaker 8>mean we have to worry about the voter, but throughout

1:08:42.640 --> 1:08:45.080
<v Speaker 8>the United States sportsmen and women need to pay attention

1:08:45.200 --> 1:08:47.400
<v Speaker 8>because of the way it's written. And you could turn

1:08:47.479 --> 1:08:50.280
<v Speaker 8>on and put it in Arkansas or Wisconsin or anything,

1:08:50.400 --> 1:08:54.280
<v Speaker 8>just change change their statutes because of the statutory component

1:08:54.320 --> 1:08:56.240
<v Speaker 8>of this. You know, with people voting on it.

1:08:56.479 --> 1:08:59.200
<v Speaker 2>Did uh how many votes does it take or how

1:08:59.200 --> 1:09:01.920
<v Speaker 2>many signatures? And then what's the population of Colorado and

1:09:01.920 --> 1:09:02.439
<v Speaker 2>how many.

1:09:02.240 --> 1:09:05.240
<v Speaker 8>Signatures, So it's roughly two percent of the population that

1:09:05.240 --> 1:09:07.200
<v Speaker 8>they need for signatures. But I think it's one hundred

1:09:07.200 --> 1:09:10.040
<v Speaker 8>and twenty four two hundred and thirty eight signatures that

1:09:10.080 --> 1:09:12.880
<v Speaker 8>they have to get that are certified. So they're out

1:09:12.920 --> 1:09:16.640
<v Speaker 8>gathering signatures now, but we're assuming that they'll probably have

1:09:16.680 --> 1:09:18.880
<v Speaker 8>to get one hundred and eighty thousand because there will

1:09:18.920 --> 1:09:22.080
<v Speaker 8>be some ineligible ones and someones that aren't.

1:09:22.240 --> 1:09:23.799
<v Speaker 5>You know, readable or whatever.

1:09:23.880 --> 1:09:26.400
<v Speaker 8>Exactly, people won't fill it out right, so that one

1:09:26.439 --> 1:09:28.200
<v Speaker 8>won't They might fill out the wrong county, or they

1:09:28.240 --> 1:09:30.120
<v Speaker 8>might fill out that it's a country, not a county.

1:09:30.200 --> 1:09:35.760
<v Speaker 3>Hanging chads, yeah, exactly. You know our young friends, he

1:09:35.800 --> 1:09:37.360
<v Speaker 3>doesn't get the hanging chads, Joe.

1:09:38.320 --> 1:09:40.000
<v Speaker 5>And you're lucky Gorvy Bush.

1:09:41.080 --> 1:09:43.160
<v Speaker 3>When they get to gor v Bush in history, listen,

1:09:43.240 --> 1:09:44.280
<v Speaker 3>you'll hear about hanging chads.

1:09:44.320 --> 1:09:50.720
<v Speaker 5>Yeah. But in Colorado, in the state constitution, they have

1:09:50.840 --> 1:09:57.360
<v Speaker 5>to pass these citizens initiatives. If the populace votes yay, right.

1:09:57.840 --> 1:10:01.320
<v Speaker 8>Well, this will not be constitutional. This will be statutory.

1:10:01.360 --> 1:10:04.439
<v Speaker 8>So a constitutional one would you would have to get

1:10:04.479 --> 1:10:07.840
<v Speaker 8>two percent of those required signatures from each one of

1:10:07.880 --> 1:10:10.519
<v Speaker 8>the thirty five Senate districts, so this one here, they

1:10:10.520 --> 1:10:12.200
<v Speaker 8>can all stand out in front of one Whole Foods

1:10:12.200 --> 1:10:15.920
<v Speaker 8>in downtown Denver. Essentially, That's what I'll say.

1:10:16.040 --> 1:10:19.519
<v Speaker 2>I always think of that because there's like, you can't

1:10:19.560 --> 1:10:21.920
<v Speaker 2>go to a Whole Foods now someone having a picnic table.

1:10:21.920 --> 1:10:24.720
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, a folding table off the front left and signatures.

1:10:26.640 --> 1:10:30.719
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, they they there's We had some guys downtown Denver

1:10:30.800 --> 1:10:32.640
<v Speaker 8>that were doing some other functions and they said there

1:10:32.760 --> 1:10:36.160
<v Speaker 8>was at one location, there was five individuals that were

1:10:36.400 --> 1:10:40.439
<v Speaker 8>out gathering signatures four five different ballot initiatives at one spot.

1:10:40.880 --> 1:10:42.840
<v Speaker 8>I mean, I don't know what you do, but if

1:10:42.840 --> 1:10:44.760
<v Speaker 8>I don't go to the grocery store, my wife does.

1:10:44.760 --> 1:10:46.200
<v Speaker 8>But if I went there and there was five people

1:10:46.200 --> 1:10:47.479
<v Speaker 8>trying to hit me up on the way end of

1:10:47.479 --> 1:10:49.880
<v Speaker 8>the way out, I mean, I'll buy girl Scout cookies

1:10:49.920 --> 1:10:51.160
<v Speaker 8>if I go. But I'm not going to turn around

1:10:51.160 --> 1:10:52.600
<v Speaker 8>and stop and sign five petitions.

1:10:52.600 --> 1:10:54.680
<v Speaker 2>No, I'm always I'm always thinking my head. Just the

1:10:54.680 --> 1:10:57.000
<v Speaker 2>fact that you're here makes me suspicious of what you're

1:10:57.000 --> 1:10:58.160
<v Speaker 2>getting signatures.

1:10:57.880 --> 1:11:00.280
<v Speaker 8>Exactly exactly what do you want to change in my life?

1:11:00.439 --> 1:11:05.640
<v Speaker 3>I mean that the produce But yeah, I don't know

1:11:05.680 --> 1:11:06.439
<v Speaker 3>what's going on in.

1:11:06.320 --> 1:11:10.519
<v Speaker 8>This park well, And there's so many things going on

1:11:10.560 --> 1:11:15.719
<v Speaker 8>in Colorado because of the landscape that we've got. I mean,

1:11:16.040 --> 1:11:20.040
<v Speaker 8>the gubernatorial administration has not been favorable to us, to

1:11:20.080 --> 1:11:23.000
<v Speaker 8>say the least when it comes to hunting and fishing

1:11:23.360 --> 1:11:26.439
<v Speaker 8>and agriculture type issues. And there's some other stuff going

1:11:26.439 --> 1:11:28.320
<v Speaker 8>on in Denver that the state won't be able to

1:11:28.400 --> 1:11:31.479
<v Speaker 8>vote on, but the Denver City and County residence will

1:11:31.479 --> 1:11:33.400
<v Speaker 8>And one is a fur ban, which is not a

1:11:33.439 --> 1:11:35.880
<v Speaker 8>fur ban's it's much broader than that. And it's a

1:11:35.920 --> 1:11:38.679
<v Speaker 8>slaughterhouse ban as well. Both of those are citizen ballot

1:11:38.720 --> 1:11:42.840
<v Speaker 8>initiatives for Denver City County residents. But those are the

1:11:42.840 --> 1:11:44.559
<v Speaker 8>same people that will be able to vote on the

1:11:44.560 --> 1:11:47.120
<v Speaker 8>state wide Mountain Lion and Bobcat issue as well. So

1:11:47.160 --> 1:11:49.160
<v Speaker 8>they get to vote on three things to try to

1:11:49.200 --> 1:11:52.040
<v Speaker 8>take away. And the state residents themselves get to vote

1:11:52.080 --> 1:11:53.960
<v Speaker 8>on the mountain line and Bobcat, but they can't engage

1:11:53.960 --> 1:11:55.479
<v Speaker 8>in the other ones because they don't live in the city.

1:11:57.320 --> 1:12:00.000
<v Speaker 8>You're just looking at me like let's go talk.

1:12:01.120 --> 1:12:03.880
<v Speaker 3>No no, no, no, no, I'm not looking at you that way.

1:12:03.960 --> 1:12:06.640
<v Speaker 3>I just remember back in I remember back in the

1:12:06.680 --> 1:12:10.479
<v Speaker 3>early nineties, must have been the nineties when Colorado had

1:12:10.479 --> 1:12:11.479
<v Speaker 3>the ye had.

1:12:11.360 --> 1:12:13.640
<v Speaker 2>A bar nation, know, the one they had the trapping Well,

1:12:13.680 --> 1:12:15.720
<v Speaker 2>that was in ninety six, and I'm looking at it

1:12:15.760 --> 1:12:18.320
<v Speaker 2>that way only because of this. I remember that trapping band.

1:12:18.640 --> 1:12:21.679
<v Speaker 2>Someone said at the time the minute Denver and Fort

1:12:21.720 --> 1:12:26.560
<v Speaker 2>Collins had a population that equaled the broader population of Colorado,

1:12:27.320 --> 1:12:32.400
<v Speaker 2>meaning fifty point one percent of Colorado's lived in Denver,

1:12:32.439 --> 1:12:35.120
<v Speaker 2>Fort Collins, the trapping.

1:12:34.880 --> 1:12:38.040
<v Speaker 3>Band, YEP. And they were like, man, it was like

1:12:38.160 --> 1:12:42.479
<v Speaker 3>it was like urban people, the yep, rural people.

1:12:43.520 --> 1:12:46.320
<v Speaker 8>And I saw a statistic that this is pretty much

1:12:46.360 --> 1:12:49.559
<v Speaker 8>across the board, especially in the West. In nineteen hundred

1:12:49.600 --> 1:12:51.960
<v Speaker 8>and eighty percent of the population lived on the landscape

1:12:52.000 --> 1:12:54.600
<v Speaker 8>and twenty percent lived in the city or the municipalities.

1:12:55.320 --> 1:12:57.439
<v Speaker 8>In nineteen fifty it was a fifty to fifty mix,

1:12:57.760 --> 1:13:00.719
<v Speaker 8>and then two thousand, twenty percent lived on the landscape

1:13:00.720 --> 1:13:02.800
<v Speaker 8>and eighty percent lived in the cities. I mean just

1:13:02.840 --> 1:13:05.000
<v Speaker 8>in one hundred years. In the next fifty years, they're

1:13:05.040 --> 1:13:07.320
<v Speaker 8>saying it'll probably be somewhere around ninety percent live in

1:13:07.320 --> 1:13:09.520
<v Speaker 8>the cities and ten percent will live on the landscape.

1:13:09.840 --> 1:13:12.560
<v Speaker 8>That's the problem that we get into because everybody benefits

1:13:12.560 --> 1:13:15.200
<v Speaker 8>off of hunting and fishing, even if they don't participate

1:13:15.200 --> 1:13:18.639
<v Speaker 8>in it. They've benefit off of agriculture production. We all

1:13:18.640 --> 1:13:20.559
<v Speaker 8>had to eat. It's not like we're all growing chickens

1:13:20.600 --> 1:13:23.960
<v Speaker 8>and gardens in everybody's backyard. But all of that stuff

1:13:24.400 --> 1:13:28.120
<v Speaker 8>plays into people's psyche because it doesn't affect them until

1:13:28.120 --> 1:13:30.040
<v Speaker 8>they go to the grocery store orun till they want

1:13:30.040 --> 1:13:32.240
<v Speaker 8>to feed their kids or go to McDonald's or something.

1:13:32.800 --> 1:13:34.599
<v Speaker 8>And I think that we're getting to a point where

1:13:34.640 --> 1:13:36.720
<v Speaker 8>there's going to be some break even where people are

1:13:36.720 --> 1:13:38.479
<v Speaker 8>just going to get fed up and say, wait a minute,

1:13:39.120 --> 1:13:41.840
<v Speaker 8>let's just leave it up to the experts on a

1:13:41.920 --> 1:13:44.680
<v Speaker 8>variety of different things. We haven't gotten there yet, but

1:13:44.680 --> 1:13:46.720
<v Speaker 8>we're going to this November, I think, just because of

1:13:46.720 --> 1:13:49.120
<v Speaker 8>the outreach that we've got and the momentum that we're

1:13:49.120 --> 1:13:51.120
<v Speaker 8>actually building on this issue. Because people are sick and

1:13:51.200 --> 1:13:55.040
<v Speaker 8>tired of extremism. They're sick and tired of somebody telling

1:13:55.080 --> 1:13:57.360
<v Speaker 8>them what to do. Whether they do it or not,

1:13:57.760 --> 1:13:59.439
<v Speaker 8>it's the fact that they might want to do it,

1:13:59.520 --> 1:14:01.280
<v Speaker 8>or they know that their uncle does it, or their

1:14:01.320 --> 1:14:03.240
<v Speaker 8>brother does it, or the guy that works at Whole

1:14:03.240 --> 1:14:06.000
<v Speaker 8>Foods does it while somebody's trying to gather signatures outside that.

1:14:06.000 --> 1:14:07.800
<v Speaker 3>That was the point I wanted to get into with this.

1:14:08.120 --> 1:14:14.920
<v Speaker 2>Which makes it tricky is you look at you look

1:14:14.920 --> 1:14:22.880
<v Speaker 2>at certain environmental battles, that environmental fights that sportsmen.

1:14:22.439 --> 1:14:23.080
<v Speaker 3>Get involved in.

1:14:23.200 --> 1:14:23.360
<v Speaker 8>Ok.

1:14:24.120 --> 1:14:27.360
<v Speaker 2>And the most notable example would be like the huge

1:14:27.400 --> 1:14:31.080
<v Speaker 2>outpouring of that came from the hunting and fishing community

1:14:31.120 --> 1:14:35.200
<v Speaker 2>all around the country in opposition to developing the Pebble

1:14:35.240 --> 1:14:40.600
<v Speaker 2>Mind site. And a lot of like people wanted to

1:14:40.640 --> 1:14:43.680
<v Speaker 2>draw a line in the sand on the Pebble Mind development,

1:14:44.320 --> 1:14:48.720
<v Speaker 2>even if they weren't planning to go to Bristol Bay, right,

1:14:48.800 --> 1:14:50.800
<v Speaker 2>they looked and they're like that, you know, just it

1:14:50.840 --> 1:14:53.280
<v Speaker 2>was easy for people to picture like that's the wrong

1:14:53.439 --> 1:14:55.880
<v Speaker 2>mind and the wrong place. I'll never go there, but

1:14:55.960 --> 1:14:58.360
<v Speaker 2>I recognize that this is something I want to lean

1:14:58.400 --> 1:15:02.479
<v Speaker 2>in on. The problem it comes to method of take

1:15:02.560 --> 1:15:04.960
<v Speaker 2>fights or fights like this. I think it's hard for

1:15:04.960 --> 1:15:11.120
<v Speaker 2>people to picture why it matters to them, Like, you know,

1:15:11.680 --> 1:15:15.120
<v Speaker 2>I don't hunt bobcats, I don't hunt mountain lions. I

1:15:15.120 --> 1:15:16.799
<v Speaker 2>don't have any friends that run lines.

1:15:17.320 --> 1:15:22.120
<v Speaker 3>Why would I care? Right? Because it's it just winds

1:15:22.160 --> 1:15:26.400
<v Speaker 3>up being harder to imagine why it why you can.

1:15:26.400 --> 1:15:30.639
<v Speaker 5>By strapolate pebble is just a total clean water issue, right, sure?

1:15:30.800 --> 1:15:35.160
<v Speaker 5>And clean water the overlap for the general population, the

1:15:35.160 --> 1:15:38.439
<v Speaker 5>bell curve of the population, it strikes a bigger tone.

1:15:39.240 --> 1:15:44.040
<v Speaker 5>And so like, what what's our messaging right when we say, well,

1:15:44.760 --> 1:15:50.480
<v Speaker 5>this method of take this particular species, what's the overlap

1:15:50.560 --> 1:15:54.479
<v Speaker 5>for the bell curve of the biggest pot possible chunk

1:15:54.520 --> 1:15:59.599
<v Speaker 5>of the population. Right, That's that's the messaging that that

1:15:59.640 --> 1:16:04.040
<v Speaker 5>we have to be able to get to with with

1:16:04.120 --> 1:16:05.320
<v Speaker 5>a lot of non hunters.

1:16:05.560 --> 1:16:08.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and I think that what if I look at

1:16:09.000 --> 1:16:12.800
<v Speaker 3>I'd worry about I got a handful of balls in

1:16:12.840 --> 1:16:14.000
<v Speaker 3>your hair, and I'm gonna.

1:16:13.840 --> 1:16:15.439
<v Speaker 2>Turn back already meant, but I just wanna to clarify

1:16:15.439 --> 1:16:19.920
<v Speaker 2>a point, like even just if it just if this,

1:16:20.040 --> 1:16:22.719
<v Speaker 2>if a vote like this breaks on hunters non hunters,

1:16:22.720 --> 1:16:25.920
<v Speaker 2>you're gonna lose because most people aren't hunters, right, I

1:16:25.920 --> 1:16:29.040
<v Speaker 2>don't know what what's participation rate in Colorado fourteen high

1:16:29.080 --> 1:16:31.200
<v Speaker 2>at the high end, at the high end, I'm sure, Okay,

1:16:31.280 --> 1:16:34.240
<v Speaker 2>so you're gonna lose anyways, So it's like hunters and

1:16:34.280 --> 1:16:37.160
<v Speaker 2>then some supporters. Now, if we were talking about a

1:16:37.160 --> 1:16:39.640
<v Speaker 2>deer in elk hunting band, which I don't think is

1:16:39.680 --> 1:16:43.400
<v Speaker 2>out of the realm of possibility in my kid's lifetime. No, so,

1:16:43.640 --> 1:16:45.880
<v Speaker 2>if you're talking about a deer elk hunting band, you're

1:16:45.920 --> 1:16:50.679
<v Speaker 2>gonna bucket up. You're pretty much bucketing up most hunters. Okay,

1:16:50.920 --> 1:16:53.320
<v Speaker 2>most hunters are gonna be like that impacts me. If

1:16:53.320 --> 1:16:58.599
<v Speaker 2>you talk about an obscure game animal, you're not even

1:16:58.680 --> 1:17:02.679
<v Speaker 2>bucketing up most hunters. But even if you had all hunters,

1:17:02.680 --> 1:17:06.439
<v Speaker 2>you still need extra support from elsewhere, exactly right. So

1:17:06.600 --> 1:17:10.240
<v Speaker 2>I wonder about how to gather it up, and I

1:17:10.280 --> 1:17:13.160
<v Speaker 2>would say, like for starters, and I'll leave it to

1:17:13.200 --> 1:17:14.920
<v Speaker 2>you on the public end of things, the none hunter

1:17:15.040 --> 1:17:17.400
<v Speaker 2>end of things, I would argue with hunters, why you

1:17:17.439 --> 1:17:20.920
<v Speaker 2>need to pay attention to this is again, you're talking

1:17:20.960 --> 1:17:27.720
<v Speaker 2>about taking a stable, expanding population of wildlife. If we

1:17:28.160 --> 1:17:31.080
<v Speaker 2>say and I don't, I don't. I'm not terribly familiar

1:17:31.080 --> 1:17:36.879
<v Speaker 2>with the IUCN, but an International Board of Biologists determines

1:17:36.960 --> 1:17:41.080
<v Speaker 2>these things to be stable with no foreseeable threat.

1:17:41.040 --> 1:17:43.240
<v Speaker 5>The experts that the experts lean on.

1:17:43.680 --> 1:17:46.920
<v Speaker 2>And you're saying, no, we're pulling that species out of

1:17:46.960 --> 1:17:51.000
<v Speaker 2>the pool of available resources, not because they're imperiled, not

1:17:51.120 --> 1:17:54.160
<v Speaker 2>because they're endangered, not because there's any reason to think

1:17:54.560 --> 1:17:59.800
<v Speaker 2>that these species have a chance of extirpation, but just

1:17:59.840 --> 1:18:02.120
<v Speaker 2>be because we don't think you should go and get

1:18:02.120 --> 1:18:07.360
<v Speaker 2>those exactly. So what's next?

1:18:07.560 --> 1:18:12.439
<v Speaker 3>Sorry guys, Jeremy Romero was making one of his recipes,

1:18:14.520 --> 1:18:20.559
<v Speaker 3>uh beria tacos, so so hap is it?

1:18:20.720 --> 1:18:20.920
<v Speaker 5>Yeah?

1:18:21.439 --> 1:18:23.320
<v Speaker 8>We learned that in trivia weeks ago.

1:18:23.880 --> 1:18:29.639
<v Speaker 2>Point being, That's what I would say to hunters, why

1:18:29.680 --> 1:18:33.080
<v Speaker 2>this matters to you? Because like stuff you like to.

1:18:33.040 --> 1:18:38.800
<v Speaker 3>Do is in line bears that's definitely coming, right, Someone

1:18:38.840 --> 1:18:41.880
<v Speaker 3>could go make the case on big horn sheep that

1:18:42.080 --> 1:18:44.960
<v Speaker 3>they're trying. Yeah, whatever, you know, other stuff is coming.

1:18:44.960 --> 1:18:50.040
<v Speaker 3>This is just like a stuff. Yeah, archree, that's mean

1:18:51.080 --> 1:18:54.760
<v Speaker 3>right now. How do you think the like?

1:18:56.160 --> 1:19:00.920
<v Speaker 2>How should the the non hunting public, why do they care?

1:19:02.960 --> 1:19:07.160
<v Speaker 8>Well, the hardest thing to get people to understand is

1:19:07.200 --> 1:19:12.800
<v Speaker 8>why something affects, benefits or adversely affects them. And for

1:19:12.880 --> 1:19:16.320
<v Speaker 8>somebody that doesn't hunt, they have to recognize. We have

1:19:16.400 --> 1:19:19.000
<v Speaker 8>to get them to recognize the importance of hunting and

1:19:19.040 --> 1:19:22.240
<v Speaker 8>conservation and the problem I think that we get into

1:19:22.439 --> 1:19:24.519
<v Speaker 8>with that messaging is you've got ten percent that are

1:19:24.520 --> 1:19:27.120
<v Speaker 8>going to be strong, you know, right hunters, and you've

1:19:27.120 --> 1:19:30.400
<v Speaker 8>got ten percent they're going to be strong, right. Extremist.

1:19:31.080 --> 1:19:33.000
<v Speaker 8>I don't like the word animal activists because they're not.

1:19:33.000 --> 1:19:36.400
<v Speaker 8>They're terrorists. They're extremists. You know, they might be activist

1:19:36.479 --> 1:19:39.000
<v Speaker 8>as well, but I mean their mentality is to disrupt

1:19:39.040 --> 1:19:41.960
<v Speaker 8>the entire process of every game agency in the country

1:19:41.960 --> 1:19:45.679
<v Speaker 8>and on the continent. As extremist, I mean they want

1:19:45.720 --> 1:19:48.880
<v Speaker 8>to do it at the extremist level that they possibly can't.

1:19:49.000 --> 1:19:52.760
<v Speaker 8>You mentioned big horn sheep Trist's Orneo, and I've mentioned this,

1:19:52.800 --> 1:19:54.320
<v Speaker 8>I think even on the live show that we did

1:19:54.320 --> 1:19:57.960
<v Speaker 8>Tris's Orneo with the Denver the Color of the Sun

1:19:58.560 --> 1:20:02.080
<v Speaker 8>mentioned why are we why are we harvesting bighorn sheep

1:20:02.080 --> 1:20:04.719
<v Speaker 8>are state animal biggorn cheap and no different than mountain lions.

1:20:04.880 --> 1:20:07.400
<v Speaker 8>They're already set in the tone in the narrative of

1:20:07.520 --> 1:20:11.240
<v Speaker 8>why we shouldn't do something and why they should be

1:20:11.280 --> 1:20:12.840
<v Speaker 8>able to go after the low hanging fruit like on

1:20:12.880 --> 1:20:15.960
<v Speaker 8>bobcats and mountain lions. There's less bobcat and mountain lion

1:20:16.080 --> 1:20:19.800
<v Speaker 8>harvesters out there than there is many other things. But

1:20:19.840 --> 1:20:22.599
<v Speaker 8>there's less big horned sheep, less mountain goat, and less

1:20:22.640 --> 1:20:25.920
<v Speaker 8>moose harvesters than there is the mountain lion and bobcat combined.

1:20:26.360 --> 1:20:28.439
<v Speaker 8>You can't, I mean, so you stop and think of that,

1:20:28.800 --> 1:20:30.760
<v Speaker 8>you know, I mean, we sold twenty five hundred dollars.

1:20:30.920 --> 1:20:33.759
<v Speaker 3>That's pretty interest that we sold.

1:20:33.520 --> 1:20:36.679
<v Speaker 8>Twenty five hundred mountain lions last year licenses. Last year

1:20:36.720 --> 1:20:40.879
<v Speaker 8>we had a success rate of nineteen percent on bobcats.

1:20:40.920 --> 1:20:42.839
<v Speaker 8>We can only cage trap in the state of Colorado,

1:20:43.040 --> 1:20:45.120
<v Speaker 8>or we can use hounds, or we can hunt them

1:20:45.200 --> 1:20:49.759
<v Speaker 8>with predator calls. But roughly about about eight thousand guys

1:20:49.800 --> 1:20:54.720
<v Speaker 8>participate in some capacity to pursue mountain lions, excuse me, bobcats.

1:20:55.280 --> 1:20:59.200
<v Speaker 8>This year we harvested around nine hundred bobcats. On some

1:20:59.320 --> 1:21:01.599
<v Speaker 8>years it's been as highs nineteen hundred that you had

1:21:01.680 --> 1:21:04.160
<v Speaker 8>guys out there. But in the historical side of things,

1:21:04.200 --> 1:21:07.040
<v Speaker 8>we did thirty six thirty eight hundred bobcats back in

1:21:07.080 --> 1:21:09.680
<v Speaker 8>the seventies and crazy when prices were crazy and you

1:21:09.720 --> 1:21:11.840
<v Speaker 8>had more people out there doing it. You know, trucks

1:21:11.880 --> 1:21:14.599
<v Speaker 8>cost twelve grand and and bobcats worth four hundred dollars,

1:21:14.640 --> 1:21:17.000
<v Speaker 8>And now trucks are eighty grand and guy's got fourteen kids,

1:21:17.040 --> 1:21:19.080
<v Speaker 8>and you know he's got vet bills with his dogs

1:21:19.080 --> 1:21:21.120
<v Speaker 8>and all the other stuff. I mean, he's not out

1:21:21.160 --> 1:21:23.479
<v Speaker 8>pursuing like what they used to. But that doesn't mean

1:21:23.479 --> 1:21:27.799
<v Speaker 8>that it's not a viable option or an advocation for management.

1:21:28.240 --> 1:21:31.559
<v Speaker 3>But it's interesting that harvest is down historically down. Yeah,

1:21:32.120 --> 1:21:33.400
<v Speaker 3>it just has a market factor.

1:21:33.520 --> 1:21:37.599
<v Speaker 8>Well on the bobcats anyway. But back in nineteen sixty five,

1:21:37.600 --> 1:21:40.479
<v Speaker 8>when when mountain lions became a big game animal. Before that,

1:21:40.520 --> 1:21:43.080
<v Speaker 8>they were a nuisance in Colorado, we roughly had two

1:21:43.120 --> 1:21:45.120
<v Speaker 8>hundred mountain lions on a landscape, and now we boast

1:21:45.160 --> 1:21:49.600
<v Speaker 8>five thousand with regulated hunting, with regulated harvest, with objectives

1:21:49.600 --> 1:21:51.599
<v Speaker 8>that are met throughout the entire state. We've got more

1:21:51.640 --> 1:21:54.120
<v Speaker 8>lions now than what we've ever had. And they still

1:21:54.439 --> 1:21:56.360
<v Speaker 8>want us not to be able to harvest them because

1:21:56.400 --> 1:21:59.280
<v Speaker 8>it's wrong, that's what they say. They don't care that

1:21:59.320 --> 1:22:01.559
<v Speaker 8>it has anything to do with management. I think that's

1:22:01.560 --> 1:22:04.280
<v Speaker 8>where the general public says, why is it wrong? How

1:22:04.320 --> 1:22:07.080
<v Speaker 8>should it be worked? Why should you just take it out?

1:22:07.439 --> 1:22:10.840
<v Speaker 8>They're starting to ask those questions. I mean, as many

1:22:10.880 --> 1:22:13.320
<v Speaker 8>opportunities we've had to talk to the general public at

1:22:13.360 --> 1:22:15.160
<v Speaker 8>a variety of different levels. And I'm not speaking for

1:22:15.200 --> 1:22:18.639
<v Speaker 8>all five point nine million people in Colorado, but people

1:22:18.680 --> 1:22:25.040
<v Speaker 8>are questioning, why, why isn't our game agency. Are scientists

1:22:25.040 --> 1:22:27.920
<v Speaker 8>and our biologists good enough to make the decisions on

1:22:27.960 --> 1:22:30.960
<v Speaker 8>our game management practices? And they're starting to realize and

1:22:31.000 --> 1:22:33.880
<v Speaker 8>I think, honestly, guys, I think the wolf issue brought

1:22:33.920 --> 1:22:37.519
<v Speaker 8>that to the forefront because there was a fifty one

1:22:37.520 --> 1:22:42.400
<v Speaker 8>to forty nine percent vote, very very split decision. We

1:22:42.400 --> 1:22:45.400
<v Speaker 8>were told that we would lose by something like sixty

1:22:45.600 --> 1:22:47.920
<v Speaker 8>sixty eight to thirty two percent, and it was fifty

1:22:47.960 --> 1:22:49.760
<v Speaker 8>one to forty nine. I think it's surprised the hell

1:22:49.800 --> 1:22:52.080
<v Speaker 8>out of everybody on both sides, because even the people

1:22:52.080 --> 1:22:54.040
<v Speaker 8>that thought, well, maybe this would kind of be cool,

1:22:54.040 --> 1:22:55.559
<v Speaker 8>but I'm not really sure, and then the other ones

1:22:55.560 --> 1:22:57.000
<v Speaker 8>that thought, yeah, I'd like to hear a wolf. How

1:22:57.600 --> 1:22:59.120
<v Speaker 8>now that it's been in the news for the last

1:22:59.120 --> 1:23:02.200
<v Speaker 8>four years, they're like, well, there's been a lot of negativity.

1:23:02.360 --> 1:23:03.840
<v Speaker 8>Do we really want to go to the route the

1:23:03.880 --> 1:23:06.640
<v Speaker 8>Bobkads and mountain lions. The general public is starting to

1:23:06.720 --> 1:23:10.960
<v Speaker 8>question why we can't rely on our experts. Are scientists

1:23:11.000 --> 1:23:13.360
<v Speaker 8>We've heard the science, heard the science all the way

1:23:13.360 --> 1:23:16.120
<v Speaker 8>through COVID, through that whole process. Why can't we follow

1:23:16.160 --> 1:23:18.200
<v Speaker 8>the science here? And I think that that's starting to

1:23:18.200 --> 1:23:21.880
<v Speaker 8>play a significant role in people's psyche. Is about well,

1:23:21.920 --> 1:23:23.720
<v Speaker 8>I like to know that bobcats and mountain lions are

1:23:23.720 --> 1:23:27.160
<v Speaker 8>appropriately managed because they've been talking about wolvesbying appropriately managed

1:23:27.200 --> 1:23:29.519
<v Speaker 8>now for the last four years. Why do we need

1:23:29.520 --> 1:23:30.880
<v Speaker 8>to turn around and put it on the ballot.

1:23:31.160 --> 1:23:33.679
<v Speaker 3>What was the lion harvest in Colorado last year?

1:23:34.240 --> 1:23:36.960
<v Speaker 8>Roughly like just less than fived, like four hundred and

1:23:36.960 --> 1:23:38.639
<v Speaker 8>eighty six. It was actually by hunters.

1:23:38.880 --> 1:23:41.559
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I don't know if this line up. I don't

1:23:41.560 --> 1:23:44.000
<v Speaker 3>know how this impactful, this will be the voters.

1:23:44.000 --> 1:23:47.599
<v Speaker 2>But you see an interested thing happen where the states

1:23:47.640 --> 1:23:48.880
<v Speaker 2>do depredation work.

1:23:48.960 --> 1:23:49.200
<v Speaker 8>Yep.

1:23:51.920 --> 1:23:56.240
<v Speaker 2>I've never checked into this exhaustively, but my understandings before

1:23:56.280 --> 1:24:00.240
<v Speaker 2>California had their lion hunting, band hunters in cal And

1:24:00.280 --> 1:24:06.120
<v Speaker 2>you were killing about three hundred lines a year. Since then,

1:24:06.360 --> 1:24:09.160
<v Speaker 2>the state is killing about three hundred lines a.

1:24:09.200 --> 1:24:11.720
<v Speaker 8>Year somewhere in that neck of the woods. I've seen

1:24:11.760 --> 1:24:14.680
<v Speaker 8>high end loads of that. But the but the the

1:24:14.760 --> 1:24:17.800
<v Speaker 8>kicker trying to explain it to our public is that

1:24:18.040 --> 1:24:21.960
<v Speaker 8>hunters aren't paying to do that. Taxpayers are paying government officials,

1:24:22.000 --> 1:24:23.080
<v Speaker 8>whether federal or otherwise.

1:24:23.400 --> 1:24:26.040
<v Speaker 2>You used to have people pay, used to have people

1:24:26.120 --> 1:24:29.759
<v Speaker 2>pay for the opportunity, and now you're taking tax parimony

1:24:29.880 --> 1:24:31.320
<v Speaker 2>to pay someone to do it.

1:24:32.040 --> 1:24:36.280
<v Speaker 3>As though, And it's so as though the lion that's.

1:24:36.120 --> 1:24:39.320
<v Speaker 2>Getting shot, it's like, well, thank god it's a government employee.

1:24:39.720 --> 1:24:41.880
<v Speaker 8>They're happy about it now because they got a.

1:24:41.840 --> 1:24:45.519
<v Speaker 2>Government employee, got me, not a guy who is paying

1:24:45.560 --> 1:24:46.760
<v Speaker 2>too well.

1:24:46.800 --> 1:24:50.280
<v Speaker 11>And that's where like a major like fallacy or lie

1:24:50.360 --> 1:24:54.679
<v Speaker 11>about the whole story is is that they're telling people that, hey,

1:24:54.720 --> 1:24:57.960
<v Speaker 11>if we stop this, the end result is that there's

1:24:58.040 --> 1:25:01.280
<v Speaker 11>less lions killed. Right, I mean, if you're getting pitched

1:25:01.280 --> 1:25:03.280
<v Speaker 11>this that whole Foods and getting there trying to get

1:25:03.280 --> 1:25:06.120
<v Speaker 11>your signature, they're gonna tell you we're gonna stop the

1:25:06.200 --> 1:25:07.920
<v Speaker 11>killing of mountain lions, you.

1:25:07.880 --> 1:25:09.840
<v Speaker 3>Probably, I mean you'll you'll dent it for sure.

1:25:12.160 --> 1:25:17.920
<v Speaker 5>Well, this part though, like I don't think that's what's effective. Right,

1:25:18.040 --> 1:25:21.120
<v Speaker 5>Like we can look at there's a big ass billboard

1:25:21.200 --> 1:25:26.800
<v Speaker 5>on on the Bozeman Hill here, uh, driving west out

1:25:26.840 --> 1:25:27.600
<v Speaker 5>of Yellowstone.

1:25:28.240 --> 1:25:28.639
<v Speaker 3>Uh.

1:25:29.280 --> 1:25:31.960
<v Speaker 5>Sal Grizzly Bear has a couple of cubs, big old

1:25:31.960 --> 1:25:38.400
<v Speaker 5>bull's eye drawn on on mom's back and it says uh, right,

1:25:38.479 --> 1:25:40.120
<v Speaker 5>and like hunters look at it and you're like, well, that's

1:25:40.120 --> 1:25:43.520
<v Speaker 5>a bunch of bullshit, right, But it's like, uh, delisting

1:25:43.880 --> 1:25:48.240
<v Speaker 5>state management means trophy hunting. And it's the crosshair on

1:25:48.280 --> 1:25:50.840
<v Speaker 5>the salas back, which everybody knows is.

1:25:50.840 --> 1:25:54.360
<v Speaker 3>Illegal to shoot a solid cubs, right.

1:25:54.520 --> 1:25:57.920
<v Speaker 5>But it's like that means something to hunters, right. But

1:25:57.960 --> 1:26:02.160
<v Speaker 5>I think all those argue months should be combined and

1:26:02.200 --> 1:26:07.160
<v Speaker 5>targeted at outdoor groups and say, Okay, here's here's an

1:26:07.240 --> 1:26:10.880
<v Speaker 5>argument I'm going to make against rock climbing and all

1:26:11.000 --> 1:26:13.680
<v Speaker 5>rock climbers, and I'm going to bring this as a

1:26:13.720 --> 1:26:17.840
<v Speaker 5>citizens initiative in the state of Colorado to save raptors. Right,

1:26:18.240 --> 1:26:19.800
<v Speaker 5>rock climbers, rock face.

1:26:19.840 --> 1:26:21.960
<v Speaker 8>Sounds like we had this discussion because that's that's the

1:26:22.040 --> 1:26:25.000
<v Speaker 8>exact same argument that we that we get on multiple things.

1:26:25.840 --> 1:26:27.559
<v Speaker 3>I want to hear about the rock climbers and raptors.

1:26:27.600 --> 1:26:33.679
<v Speaker 5>Okay, well, raptors nest. Okay, we know that rock climbers

1:26:33.680 --> 1:26:36.880
<v Speaker 5>are killing raptors because they're abandoning their nests because of

1:26:36.920 --> 1:26:40.439
<v Speaker 5>all these popular routes. Sons of bitches, Yep, they're picking

1:26:40.520 --> 1:26:47.120
<v Speaker 5>up trash, microplastics. There's no reason that rock climbers should

1:26:47.120 --> 1:26:49.519
<v Speaker 5>be allowed to do this. They're leaving scars on the rocks,

1:26:49.560 --> 1:26:56.320
<v Speaker 5>big chalk all over the place, and and it's killing

1:26:56.360 --> 1:26:58.760
<v Speaker 5>these poor birds. And you have the picture of the

1:26:58.800 --> 1:27:05.520
<v Speaker 5>nest and the little abandoned chicks in there screaming for mom.

1:27:06.000 --> 1:27:08.640
<v Speaker 5>You know who's choking on the six pack ring at

1:27:08.640 --> 1:27:12.080
<v Speaker 5>the bottom of the cliff face. All rock climbers are

1:27:12.160 --> 1:27:15.880
<v Speaker 5>doing this, right, None of that shit's true.

1:27:16.640 --> 1:27:19.439
<v Speaker 8>Well, to some degree it might be. But the fact

1:27:19.439 --> 1:27:22.040
<v Speaker 8>of the matter is, if you tell it enough, I mean,

1:27:22.080 --> 1:27:23.760
<v Speaker 8>you could get people to turn around and buy into

1:27:24.000 --> 1:27:27.840
<v Speaker 8>absolute especially then that's not big of a group of people. No, right, no,

1:27:27.920 --> 1:27:29.280
<v Speaker 8>But you think they're going to come out in force

1:27:29.320 --> 1:27:32.639
<v Speaker 8>and go, wait a minute, well I want a rock climb. Well,

1:27:32.680 --> 1:27:35.679
<v Speaker 8>I think that the general public would would probably side

1:27:35.720 --> 1:27:38.479
<v Speaker 8>with the environmental side of it if there wasn't a

1:27:38.479 --> 1:27:40.360
<v Speaker 8>good argument from the rock climbing community.

1:27:40.360 --> 1:27:42.920
<v Speaker 5>And there's just not enough rock climbers to get out

1:27:42.920 --> 1:27:43.439
<v Speaker 5>there and be.

1:27:43.479 --> 1:27:45.080
<v Speaker 8>Like, well, and that's why we're at that's why we're

1:27:45.080 --> 1:27:47.519
<v Speaker 8>at such a deal. You know, I've heard statements from

1:27:47.720 --> 1:27:52.559
<v Speaker 8>from the specific proponents of these measures that their goal

1:27:52.880 --> 1:27:56.120
<v Speaker 8>to take the low hanging fruit is, you know, take it,

1:27:56.320 --> 1:27:58.360
<v Speaker 8>then cut the branch, then cut the tree, and then

1:27:58.400 --> 1:28:00.920
<v Speaker 8>go into the forest. Well, if we're the lowest hanging fruit,

1:28:00.920 --> 1:28:04.080
<v Speaker 8>the trappers in the mountain lion hunters, where do you

1:28:04.120 --> 1:28:06.360
<v Speaker 8>go next? I mean your point bear hunting. Would it

1:28:06.400 --> 1:28:08.720
<v Speaker 8>be a archerie, would it be state animal? Would it

1:28:08.760 --> 1:28:11.160
<v Speaker 8>be you know, the iconic moose that we introduced there

1:28:11.280 --> 1:28:13.000
<v Speaker 8>that now they need to be saved so we can

1:28:13.200 --> 1:28:15.400
<v Speaker 8>feed those to the wolves. I mean, I don't I

1:28:15.400 --> 1:28:18.679
<v Speaker 8>don't know, but it's easily it's easily distinguishable to see

1:28:18.720 --> 1:28:22.479
<v Speaker 8>how those lies carry on to the next level because

1:28:22.600 --> 1:28:24.280
<v Speaker 8>they don't have to pick on these guys anymore, because

1:28:24.320 --> 1:28:26.679
<v Speaker 8>these guys are gone. These guys are out of the picture.

1:28:27.000 --> 1:28:29.240
<v Speaker 5>Are you gonna make a great case against mountain biking?

1:28:31.560 --> 1:28:33.719
<v Speaker 8>You're just gonna go on the recreation side, now.

1:28:33.680 --> 1:28:36.759
<v Speaker 5>Oh, exactly, hit every recreation group and be like, here's

1:28:36.840 --> 1:28:43.320
<v Speaker 5>here's my bulletproof pr plan to eliminate your special interest group, right,

1:28:43.400 --> 1:28:44.599
<v Speaker 5>and we're going to we can do it all through

1:28:44.680 --> 1:28:49.080
<v Speaker 5>citizens Initiative because we know there's enough other groups that

1:28:49.160 --> 1:28:52.280
<v Speaker 5>do not participate and don't necessarily give a shit about

1:28:52.320 --> 1:28:56.840
<v Speaker 5>your thing that you love. And it can all be

1:28:56.920 --> 1:28:58.800
<v Speaker 5>part of a campaign that says this is why this

1:28:58.960 --> 1:29:03.160
<v Speaker 5>whole citizen's initiation of stuff needs to be greatly reworked,

1:29:03.800 --> 1:29:07.519
<v Speaker 5>because it can be manipulated to take away things that

1:29:08.600 --> 1:29:09.679
<v Speaker 5>don't need to be taken away.

1:29:09.760 --> 1:29:12.240
<v Speaker 8>And multiple states that I said, you know, twenty six

1:29:12.360 --> 1:29:14.880
<v Speaker 8>have this available to them. There needs to be a

1:29:14.920 --> 1:29:18.880
<v Speaker 8>revision in some capacity, whether it's on the wildlife side

1:29:18.960 --> 1:29:22.760
<v Speaker 8>or just on the citizens petition side itself, because it

1:29:22.880 --> 1:29:27.479
<v Speaker 8>is being manipulated, it's being abused, and it's bastardizing so

1:29:27.479 --> 1:29:29.800
<v Speaker 8>many different things that we're dealing with at so many

1:29:29.800 --> 1:29:31.719
<v Speaker 8>different levels. I mean, you know, you can talk about

1:29:31.760 --> 1:29:33.920
<v Speaker 8>oil and gas or wind in there's ear, solar sighting

1:29:34.000 --> 1:29:36.880
<v Speaker 8>or whatever. Everybody thinks it's good until you say that

1:29:36.920 --> 1:29:39.640
<v Speaker 8>it's going to kill a bunch of wildlife, and it

1:29:39.720 --> 1:29:41.680
<v Speaker 8>is good. I mean, I'm not saying we should get

1:29:41.760 --> 1:29:43.120
<v Speaker 8>rid of any of it. It just needs to be

1:29:43.160 --> 1:29:46.120
<v Speaker 8>appropriately managed. But I don't think that you should get

1:29:46.240 --> 1:29:48.200
<v Speaker 8>you know, some crazy old women standing out front of

1:29:48.200 --> 1:29:50.360
<v Speaker 8>Whole Foods trying to ban everything. Pretty soon we'll be

1:29:50.400 --> 1:29:53.080
<v Speaker 8>running around naked and you know, not being able to

1:29:53.120 --> 1:29:54.040
<v Speaker 8>get what we want.

1:29:54.960 --> 1:29:55.160
<v Speaker 3>You know.

1:29:55.200 --> 1:29:58.200
<v Speaker 2>One of the ways I think that I hesitate to

1:29:58.200 --> 1:30:01.280
<v Speaker 2>even say this because I'm giving up. I'm like, uh,

1:30:03.560 --> 1:30:09.000
<v Speaker 2>showing the inside thinking. But a rhetoric I would use

1:30:09.040 --> 1:30:12.240
<v Speaker 2>in this is one that when I hear it oftentimes

1:30:12.280 --> 1:30:13.639
<v Speaker 2>causes me to roll my eyes.

1:30:14.520 --> 1:30:15.880
<v Speaker 3>But it would be.

1:30:17.320 --> 1:30:20.719
<v Speaker 2>Maybe you're not a hunter, You're probably certainly not a

1:30:20.760 --> 1:30:26.680
<v Speaker 2>Bobcat hunter, but do you really want these city slickers

1:30:27.520 --> 1:30:28.960
<v Speaker 2>telling you how to live your life?

1:30:29.720 --> 1:30:30.080
<v Speaker 3>Mhm?

1:30:31.040 --> 1:30:33.280
<v Speaker 2>That would wind up be that's very effective to people.

1:30:33.560 --> 1:30:37.960
<v Speaker 2>And I always go like, oh really really, But that's

1:30:38.000 --> 1:30:39.439
<v Speaker 2>what I would be pitching big time.

1:30:39.680 --> 1:30:41.360
<v Speaker 8>Well, if you look at hot tip for you look

1:30:41.600 --> 1:30:43.200
<v Speaker 8>at look at the where the money comes from. And

1:30:43.680 --> 1:30:45.840
<v Speaker 8>while we while I say that we've gotten money from

1:30:45.840 --> 1:30:49.479
<v Speaker 8>fifty states to unless with this fight, the seed money

1:30:49.720 --> 1:30:52.559
<v Speaker 8>for these efforts from the opposition has come from out

1:30:52.560 --> 1:30:55.599
<v Speaker 8>of state. It's out of state big money. Oh and

1:30:55.600 --> 1:30:58.559
<v Speaker 8>and and because it's coming from the national organizations and

1:30:58.600 --> 1:31:00.800
<v Speaker 8>the and the lunatic one that are out there that

1:31:01.200 --> 1:31:02.439
<v Speaker 8>you know, I mean, you know what? You know what

1:31:02.520 --> 1:31:05.400
<v Speaker 8>polled number one when we did our first poll was

1:31:05.439 --> 1:31:08.519
<v Speaker 8>Carole Baskins off the Tiger King. I mean that that

1:31:08.640 --> 1:31:11.040
<v Speaker 8>was like, well, we don't want her doing our wildlife. Well,

1:31:11.439 --> 1:31:13.240
<v Speaker 8>I mean that's where that's what people think about wild life.

1:31:13.240 --> 1:31:14.320
<v Speaker 3>I don't understand what you're saying.

1:31:14.520 --> 1:31:17.040
<v Speaker 8>So we did our polling. You asked the questions and

1:31:17.680 --> 1:31:20.360
<v Speaker 8>trying to get people's attention to figure out where their

1:31:20.400 --> 1:31:23.760
<v Speaker 8>psyche was, where their impressions were, perspectives on mountain land

1:31:23.800 --> 1:31:27.439
<v Speaker 8>and Bobcats. Because you asked the question about Carole Baskins

1:31:27.520 --> 1:31:29.960
<v Speaker 8>that polled number one, where all the other stuff about

1:31:30.120 --> 1:31:33.840
<v Speaker 8>conservation and economy and wildlife science and the North American.

1:31:33.560 --> 1:31:36.800
<v Speaker 3>Media disapproval generally a disapproval of her. Yeah, I see,

1:31:36.840 --> 1:31:37.120
<v Speaker 3>you know.

1:31:37.520 --> 1:31:40.920
<v Speaker 8>But but but she's she polls number one, not all

1:31:40.920 --> 1:31:42.680
<v Speaker 8>the good stuff that we should be talking about. She

1:31:42.800 --> 1:31:45.280
<v Speaker 8>polls number one, and we're thinking, well, how they happened.

1:31:45.360 --> 1:31:49.160
<v Speaker 3>I'm sorry, I still don't understand that Steve famously didn't

1:31:49.160 --> 1:31:52.360
<v Speaker 3>engage with Tiger King. No, no, no, let's say I did.

1:31:52.680 --> 1:31:53.519
<v Speaker 8>Let's say I did.

1:31:54.000 --> 1:31:55.800
<v Speaker 3>I don't understand. What is the poll like?

1:31:56.080 --> 1:31:58.439
<v Speaker 8>So when you ask you you're trying to get a

1:31:58.439 --> 1:32:01.599
<v Speaker 8>feel or a pulse from the general public about how

1:32:01.640 --> 1:32:03.920
<v Speaker 8>you would be able to message to that general public,

1:32:04.320 --> 1:32:05.840
<v Speaker 8>and what would resonate with them.

1:32:05.880 --> 1:32:08.200
<v Speaker 3>I understand that, okay, and they're saying, sorry, I didn't.

1:32:08.520 --> 1:32:10.400
<v Speaker 3>If you were saying, like.

1:32:10.360 --> 1:32:14.519
<v Speaker 2>Do you have a favorable impression of Baskins as a

1:32:14.560 --> 1:32:17.960
<v Speaker 2>wildlife manager, yes, they would say resoundingly, I do not

1:32:18.040 --> 1:32:19.479
<v Speaker 2>have a favorable impression exactly.

1:32:19.760 --> 1:32:21.320
<v Speaker 8>But if you said what is the most important to

1:32:21.320 --> 1:32:24.320
<v Speaker 8>you when it comes to wildlife management and you ranked

1:32:24.320 --> 1:32:30.160
<v Speaker 8>it ABC and you said the economy, wildlife, science, sustainable resources,

1:32:30.400 --> 1:32:34.600
<v Speaker 8>Carol Baskins. I mean Carole Baskins comes in at the

1:32:34.600 --> 1:32:36.200
<v Speaker 8>top of like, well, we don't want her, we don't

1:32:36.200 --> 1:32:38.639
<v Speaker 8>want her management our wildlife. But they're willing to turn

1:32:38.680 --> 1:32:41.439
<v Speaker 8>around and take some eighty five year old ex uber driver,

1:32:41.920 --> 1:32:44.840
<v Speaker 8>you know, because that person doesn't want anything other than

1:32:44.840 --> 1:32:49.280
<v Speaker 8>what Carole Baskins does. And so we are so disconnected

1:32:50.040 --> 1:32:53.360
<v Speaker 8>from wildlife as you all know. For the general public,

1:32:53.720 --> 1:32:56.040
<v Speaker 8>I mean, they don't know where they're where the wildlife

1:32:56.040 --> 1:32:58.080
<v Speaker 8>management comes from. They don't know the science behind it.

1:32:58.080 --> 1:32:59.760
<v Speaker 8>You talk to people all the time that, well I

1:32:59.800 --> 1:33:02.920
<v Speaker 8>pay my taxes, well good, I'm glad, but very little

1:33:02.960 --> 1:33:05.559
<v Speaker 8>of that goes to wildlife conservation and management. It's from

1:33:05.600 --> 1:33:08.760
<v Speaker 8>licenses the sportsmen and women have historically paid that, and

1:33:08.800 --> 1:33:11.720
<v Speaker 8>it goes from the North American model practices and the

1:33:12.200 --> 1:33:15.360
<v Speaker 8>excise taxes. You can't argue that to somebody that doesn't

1:33:15.400 --> 1:33:19.360
<v Speaker 8>even understand the circle the process. So you have to

1:33:19.360 --> 1:33:21.280
<v Speaker 8>figure out a way to talk to them about how

1:33:21.479 --> 1:33:25.960
<v Speaker 8>hunting and fishing benefits them and wildlife as a whole.

1:33:26.080 --> 1:33:29.240
<v Speaker 8>Seventy eight game species of wildlife that's managed in Colorado,

1:33:29.880 --> 1:33:32.040
<v Speaker 8>is it really? Yeah? You got nine hundred and sixty

1:33:32.080 --> 1:33:34.559
<v Speaker 8>one species of wildlife and seventy eight of his game species.

1:33:34.600 --> 1:33:36.880
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, I'm sorry, yeah fish.

1:33:36.640 --> 1:33:38.920
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, yeah, but they but they would they don't want

1:33:38.920 --> 1:33:40.960
<v Speaker 8>any of it, you know, it's they don't want you

1:33:40.960 --> 1:33:42.360
<v Speaker 8>to harvest any of it for any reason.

1:33:52.160 --> 1:33:55.519
<v Speaker 2>So where where does where does the governor of Colorado,

1:33:55.600 --> 1:33:57.000
<v Speaker 2>Governor Polls fit into this?

1:33:57.120 --> 1:33:59.519
<v Speaker 3>Is it like would this all be happening without him?

1:33:59.840 --> 1:34:01.439
<v Speaker 8>In not to this level?

1:34:02.000 --> 1:34:02.640
<v Speaker 3>No?

1:34:02.680 --> 1:34:09.839
<v Speaker 8>This, no, this this uh, this particular individual, his his spouse,

1:34:09.880 --> 1:34:14.120
<v Speaker 8>the first gentleman of Colorado is a animal rights extremist

1:34:14.760 --> 1:34:17.920
<v Speaker 8>and he's got well I would like to say he's

1:34:17.920 --> 1:34:20.400
<v Speaker 8>got deep pockets. I think they combined and have deep pockets.

1:34:23.240 --> 1:34:26.600
<v Speaker 8>But you look at the support that they get and

1:34:26.680 --> 1:34:28.720
<v Speaker 8>the connections that they have. I mean, it's like a

1:34:28.720 --> 1:34:31.160
<v Speaker 8>giant spider web that what they have. As far as

1:34:31.640 --> 1:34:34.680
<v Speaker 8>the animal rights extremism, and it's not and it's not

1:34:34.800 --> 1:34:36.960
<v Speaker 8>just about wildlife, it's about everything that has to do

1:34:37.000 --> 1:34:37.439
<v Speaker 8>with animals.

1:34:37.800 --> 1:34:39.679
<v Speaker 3>His old man is an animal rights activist.

1:34:39.840 --> 1:34:42.400
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, yeah, extremists terrorist.

1:34:42.760 --> 1:34:47.640
<v Speaker 9>He's inserted some people onto the Colorado Wildlife Commission that

1:34:47.680 --> 1:34:51.520
<v Speaker 9>aren't necessarily pro correct.

1:34:51.880 --> 1:34:56.200
<v Speaker 8>Not necessarily pro that's an understatement, but yeah.

1:34:56.760 --> 1:35:00.760
<v Speaker 9>Which is one way he like he can further his influence, right.

1:35:01.280 --> 1:35:03.840
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, and even through the Department of Agriculture. I mean

1:35:03.880 --> 1:35:06.000
<v Speaker 8>you just look at appointments straight across the board, the

1:35:06.040 --> 1:35:10.000
<v Speaker 8>oversight that's been created with our Game Management Agency because

1:35:10.040 --> 1:35:13.080
<v Speaker 8>of the extremist mentality what we consider to be an

1:35:13.080 --> 1:35:16.840
<v Speaker 8>agenda that should be paid attention to by people from

1:35:16.840 --> 1:35:20.080
<v Speaker 8>all around the country as well. Because that model works.

1:35:20.560 --> 1:35:22.439
<v Speaker 8>You know, you might not be able to get what

1:35:22.479 --> 1:35:24.880
<v Speaker 8>you want, but if you put the right people in place,

1:35:25.320 --> 1:35:27.559
<v Speaker 8>you can get a lot of what you want, and

1:35:27.600 --> 1:35:29.000
<v Speaker 8>you could do it in a short period of time,

1:35:29.080 --> 1:35:31.600
<v Speaker 8>just because you're able to turn around and change the

1:35:31.680 --> 1:35:36.439
<v Speaker 8>mindset of management and regulatory components and how structures, you know,

1:35:36.720 --> 1:35:40.040
<v Speaker 8>then legislative you know, issues come up to where, well,

1:35:40.960 --> 1:35:44.080
<v Speaker 8>this is more favorable to that administration, so there may

1:35:44.120 --> 1:35:46.719
<v Speaker 8>be more likely to support it. I'm you know, I'm considered.

1:35:46.800 --> 1:35:48.920
<v Speaker 8>We're sitting around here and granted, and it seems like

1:35:48.920 --> 1:35:51.080
<v Speaker 8>the more and more I do this, I become the

1:35:51.120 --> 1:35:54.200
<v Speaker 8>oldest guy in the room everywhere I go. But you know,

1:35:54.560 --> 1:35:56.920
<v Speaker 8>guys like Connor sitting here. I mean, I want him

1:35:56.960 --> 1:35:59.360
<v Speaker 8>to be able to do what he did not kill

1:35:59.360 --> 1:36:02.599
<v Speaker 8>the three hundred day six point before. I don't want

1:36:02.640 --> 1:36:05.640
<v Speaker 8>you to be able to do that. You should be

1:36:05.680 --> 1:36:08.920
<v Speaker 8>able to kill spikes after this, but I want him

1:36:08.920 --> 1:36:11.479
<v Speaker 8>to be able to do it. And while we talk

1:36:11.520 --> 1:36:14.720
<v Speaker 8>about professing to do something for the immediate future, which

1:36:14.760 --> 1:36:17.200
<v Speaker 8>is now coming this November, I want him to be

1:36:17.240 --> 1:36:18.680
<v Speaker 8>able to do it when he's my age, I want

1:36:18.680 --> 1:36:20.640
<v Speaker 8>his kids to be able to do it. And I

1:36:20.640 --> 1:36:25.000
<v Speaker 8>think that that question resonates really really well with our

1:36:25.160 --> 1:36:28.439
<v Speaker 8>stakeholder audience that we've got the hunters and anglers, but

1:36:28.520 --> 1:36:32.120
<v Speaker 8>it resonates well with the non hunter, not the anti

1:36:32.200 --> 1:36:34.080
<v Speaker 8>but the non hunter as well, because they're like, well,

1:36:34.120 --> 1:36:36.760
<v Speaker 8>maybe my kid would want to go hunting because my

1:36:36.800 --> 1:36:39.040
<v Speaker 8>neighbor's kid goes hunting and he talked about taking him.

1:36:39.240 --> 1:36:41.080
<v Speaker 8>Or you know, they're doing it in scout camp, or

1:36:41.120 --> 1:36:43.559
<v Speaker 8>they're doing it in some sort of outward bound deal.

1:36:43.600 --> 1:36:47.720
<v Speaker 8>And it's all preparation for wilderness survival and conservation. And

1:36:47.960 --> 1:36:51.479
<v Speaker 8>there's the American Wilderness Leadership School. We do stuff for

1:36:51.520 --> 1:36:57.559
<v Speaker 8>the National Rifle Association Association, the Youth Outdoor Adventure Camp

1:36:57.560 --> 1:36:59.880
<v Speaker 8>at the Winnington Center, and we sit in kids on scholarships.

1:37:01.080 --> 1:37:03.240
<v Speaker 8>The reason you do that is because you're hoping that

1:37:03.360 --> 1:37:06.280
<v Speaker 8>you educate them to be able to participate in this

1:37:06.560 --> 1:37:10.200
<v Speaker 8>and and escalate their and enhance their knowledge of the landscape.

1:37:10.640 --> 1:37:14.439
<v Speaker 8>Well did you see what they're doing with the kids

1:37:14.479 --> 1:37:19.639
<v Speaker 8>in Colorado about naming the wolves? So they had a contest.

1:37:19.640 --> 1:37:22.640
<v Speaker 8>The governor implemented the contest to name the wolves that

1:37:22.680 --> 1:37:24.800
<v Speaker 8>we introduced, jumped them on the ground, named them.

1:37:24.840 --> 1:37:27.560
<v Speaker 3>Had a big contest because that way, when one of

1:37:27.600 --> 1:37:28.880
<v Speaker 3>them dies from something, it.

1:37:28.800 --> 1:37:30.680
<v Speaker 8>Will be like, I mean, how do you like to

1:37:30.680 --> 1:37:32.400
<v Speaker 8>be the first rancher that has a sheep beating and

1:37:32.560 --> 1:37:35.479
<v Speaker 8>you actually kill it under the tenj rule And somebody says, well,

1:37:35.640 --> 1:37:38.320
<v Speaker 8>that guy killed Maverick, you know, I mean, yeah, I

1:37:38.360 --> 1:37:40.160
<v Speaker 8>mean they're going to be protesting him. They're not going

1:37:40.240 --> 1:37:42.840
<v Speaker 8>to want to eat his beef. It's this indoctrination, this

1:37:42.920 --> 1:37:45.639
<v Speaker 8>psycho analysis that they've done, and even.

1:37:45.640 --> 1:37:49.720
<v Speaker 3>When they got a name like M six, yeah, just you.

1:37:49.680 --> 1:37:53.439
<v Speaker 8>Know, B fifty two. But I want to I want

1:37:53.479 --> 1:38:00.800
<v Speaker 8>to see our society recognize the need for content as

1:38:00.800 --> 1:38:03.519
<v Speaker 8>opposed to just talk about it. And I really I

1:38:03.560 --> 1:38:04.280
<v Speaker 8>think that there's.

1:38:04.080 --> 1:38:06.760
<v Speaker 3>A lot I mean as opposed to a preservation mentality.

1:38:06.880 --> 1:38:09.760
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, I mean my grandma used to preserve jam and

1:38:09.760 --> 1:38:12.320
<v Speaker 8>put it on the shelf, and my grandfather always used

1:38:12.320 --> 1:38:15.960
<v Speaker 8>to say, no, that's conservation because I'm going to eat it.

1:38:16.200 --> 1:38:19.080
<v Speaker 8>We're not put in there just to preserve it. But

1:38:19.200 --> 1:38:21.400
<v Speaker 8>I want to I want to see. I think with

1:38:21.439 --> 1:38:25.240
<v Speaker 8>what we're trying to accomplish, we have a moment in

1:38:25.360 --> 1:38:28.640
<v Speaker 8>time that we can actually prop up a flag. And

1:38:28.680 --> 1:38:30.240
<v Speaker 8>I don't want to be all sappy about it, but

1:38:30.680 --> 1:38:34.439
<v Speaker 8>it's our chances sportsmen and women in the United States

1:38:34.439 --> 1:38:37.439
<v Speaker 8>to prop up a flag and stop something that could

1:38:37.520 --> 1:38:41.400
<v Speaker 8>dramatically affect about any other state, or any other species,

1:38:41.479 --> 1:38:44.280
<v Speaker 8>or any other method of take or season or anything.

1:38:44.360 --> 1:38:48.400
<v Speaker 8>Because once you start doing statutory regulations instead of precedent.

1:38:49.280 --> 1:38:52.200
<v Speaker 8>I mean, it's easy for everybody else to go, well,

1:38:52.200 --> 1:38:53.920
<v Speaker 8>they did it over here. Sure, all we have to

1:38:53.920 --> 1:38:57.240
<v Speaker 8>do is change this species or take this out. And

1:38:57.280 --> 1:38:58.519
<v Speaker 8>I wanted to bring up because.

1:38:58.520 --> 1:39:00.200
<v Speaker 3>There's two things I want to do though, Yeah, so

1:39:00.280 --> 1:39:02.000
<v Speaker 3>hold that thought, because the two things I want to

1:39:02.040 --> 1:39:02.760
<v Speaker 3>do is, uh.

1:39:04.880 --> 1:39:08.080
<v Speaker 2>One, I want to explore how certain the outcome is.

1:39:09.920 --> 1:39:11.680
<v Speaker 2>You might look at this and look at some of

1:39:11.720 --> 1:39:14.360
<v Speaker 2>the demographics we're talking about and look and be like that,

1:39:14.479 --> 1:39:21.200
<v Speaker 2>you know, the governors behind it, certain certain environmental groups

1:39:21.240 --> 1:39:23.320
<v Speaker 2>that a lot of name recognition are behind it. It

1:39:23.400 --> 1:39:26.639
<v Speaker 2>must be that like, like, hunters are automatically going to lose,

1:39:27.240 --> 1:39:33.479
<v Speaker 2>but they don't always lose. No, Maine beat a bear

1:39:33.600 --> 1:39:39.000
<v Speaker 2>hunting band yep, some years back. Montana beat a public

1:39:39.040 --> 1:39:45.000
<v Speaker 2>land trapping band overwhelmingly recently, very different politics.

1:39:45.439 --> 1:39:49.320
<v Speaker 9>Arizona is similar to Colorado, and they beat a cat

1:39:49.400 --> 1:39:50.080
<v Speaker 9>hunting band.

1:39:50.400 --> 1:39:52.599
<v Speaker 8>So they didn't they didn't even get signatures down there

1:39:52.600 --> 1:39:55.120
<v Speaker 8>because they did such a formidable campaign to make sure

1:39:55.160 --> 1:39:56.320
<v Speaker 8>they didn't get the signatures.

1:39:56.560 --> 1:40:01.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so it's not that's the bright side. The not

1:40:01.400 --> 1:40:03.360
<v Speaker 2>bright side is you lose.

1:40:03.120 --> 1:40:05.840
<v Speaker 3>A lot too. And and I could name a bunch

1:40:05.840 --> 1:40:08.600
<v Speaker 3>of states that have lost a bunch of stuff. But

1:40:09.160 --> 1:40:12.759
<v Speaker 3>point being, the fact that it's on the ballot doesn't

1:40:12.800 --> 1:40:14.160
<v Speaker 3>mean it's one.

1:40:14.640 --> 1:40:18.360
<v Speaker 2>No, like this is going to be decided. It might

1:40:18.439 --> 1:40:21.200
<v Speaker 2>be tight, but this is going to be something that's

1:40:21.200 --> 1:40:24.120
<v Speaker 2>decided down the future. Like it's not This isn't news

1:40:24.200 --> 1:40:26.960
<v Speaker 2>of something that happened. This is news of something that's

1:40:28.000 --> 1:40:31.360
<v Speaker 2>coming and will be addressed in the future.

1:40:32.080 --> 1:40:32.320
<v Speaker 3>Right.

1:40:34.000 --> 1:40:35.320
<v Speaker 2>So that's the first point I want to make, and

1:40:35.320 --> 1:40:39.160
<v Speaker 2>I want to make as you continue your thought, what

1:40:39.320 --> 1:40:42.280
<v Speaker 2>is the most productive thing, the most helpful thing that

1:40:42.280 --> 1:40:43.280
<v Speaker 2>people can do.

1:40:44.800 --> 1:40:45.840
<v Speaker 8>Give me a bunch of money?

1:40:46.200 --> 1:40:49.320
<v Speaker 3>Okay? And yeah.

1:40:50.400 --> 1:40:52.559
<v Speaker 4>Something the other day that was and I don't know

1:40:52.560 --> 1:40:55.240
<v Speaker 4>if this is true or not, but it was something like,

1:40:55.280 --> 1:40:59.800
<v Speaker 4>if every person who applies for non resident ELK in Colorado,

1:41:00.040 --> 1:41:01.400
<v Speaker 4>We're to send you twenty dollars.

1:41:01.520 --> 1:41:05.519
<v Speaker 3>Yep, you'd have the what anticipated are you serious? The

1:41:05.560 --> 1:41:07.200
<v Speaker 3>war chest? Yeah, the war chest.

1:41:07.200 --> 1:41:10.960
<v Speaker 4>Sort of amounting yeah, yeah, And so like you have

1:41:11.000 --> 1:41:12.240
<v Speaker 4>a number's apply.

1:41:12.479 --> 1:41:15.200
<v Speaker 2>Brody's applying is a cowsking like this, Brody just found

1:41:15.200 --> 1:41:19.439
<v Speaker 2>he's gonna play. He's applying his kids, Oh to wear Colorado.

1:41:19.640 --> 1:41:20.120
<v Speaker 5>That's fine.

1:41:22.720 --> 1:41:24.599
<v Speaker 3>So Brody's got to send you sixty bucks.

1:41:24.840 --> 1:41:26.640
<v Speaker 8>Ye, well, you're you're exactly right.

1:41:26.720 --> 1:41:28.400
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, you have a war you have a number that

1:41:28.439 --> 1:41:30.880
<v Speaker 4>you need for a war chest to fight this, you

1:41:30.880 --> 1:41:34.840
<v Speaker 4>know effectively. Yeah, And it's a number that people who

1:41:34.840 --> 1:41:38.559
<v Speaker 4>are spending money on their hunting dreams down the line

1:41:38.880 --> 1:41:43.320
<v Speaker 4>can can pull together without too much heartache on anyone.

1:41:43.479 --> 1:41:45.439
<v Speaker 8>We've been working with Howl for Wildlife on a bunch

1:41:45.439 --> 1:41:47.040
<v Speaker 8>of different things, trying to get a message out and

1:41:47.080 --> 1:41:50.000
<v Speaker 8>they they've got a really unique system to be able

1:41:50.040 --> 1:41:52.240
<v Speaker 8>to deal with the legislative side of things throughout the

1:41:52.240 --> 1:41:54.920
<v Speaker 8>country and they've been really effective over the last two years.

1:41:55.240 --> 1:41:58.920
<v Speaker 8>But they're helping us dramatically on this, which is kind

1:41:58.920 --> 1:42:01.320
<v Speaker 8>of the first ballot in issue that they've actually engaged

1:42:01.360 --> 1:42:04.600
<v Speaker 8>in to this degree. And one of the arguments that

1:42:04.640 --> 1:42:06.840
<v Speaker 8>we've actually given is to your point, it's almost two

1:42:06.880 --> 1:42:09.479
<v Speaker 8>hundred thousand non resident applications that come in and they're

1:42:09.479 --> 1:42:11.639
<v Speaker 8>coming in now. It goes all the way. The deadline

1:42:11.680 --> 1:42:14.679
<v Speaker 8>is April second, but you have to buy a qualifying license.

1:42:14.800 --> 1:42:16.840
<v Speaker 8>I think it's thirty nine to fifty four bucks, depending

1:42:16.880 --> 1:42:18.839
<v Speaker 8>on which one you get. You got to buy preference points,

1:42:19.000 --> 1:42:22.639
<v Speaker 8>you have to pay pay application fees. If every person

1:42:22.680 --> 1:42:24.880
<v Speaker 8>that put in for the state of Colorado would just

1:42:24.920 --> 1:42:27.519
<v Speaker 8>take some of what they're already given Colorado that they

1:42:27.520 --> 1:42:29.719
<v Speaker 8>don't get anything out of unless they draw a license.

1:42:29.760 --> 1:42:32.200
<v Speaker 8>I mean, just you don't even you're putting money in

1:42:32.560 --> 1:42:35.000
<v Speaker 8>for a lottery ticket. But we know that we're not

1:42:35.120 --> 1:42:37.439
<v Speaker 8>all gonna I mean, you got eleven percent success out

1:42:37.479 --> 1:42:39.400
<v Speaker 8>of your deal, but you know you're an anomaly. So

1:42:39.720 --> 1:42:43.160
<v Speaker 8>I mean your twenty bucks. Yeah, he doesn't need to

1:42:43.240 --> 1:42:43.919
<v Speaker 8>hunt Colorado.

1:42:44.080 --> 1:42:47.280
<v Speaker 5>So we know the folks are paying the taxi duringy bill. Okay,

1:42:47.360 --> 1:42:48.000
<v Speaker 5>so coff it out.

1:42:48.080 --> 1:42:51.200
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, you don't get to get out of here unless

1:42:51.240 --> 1:42:56.080
<v Speaker 8>you pay ahead of time. But we we have a

1:42:56.120 --> 1:42:59.200
<v Speaker 8>funded mechanism in the United States with people that apply

1:42:59.280 --> 1:43:02.400
<v Speaker 8>all around the country just for the opportunity to apply.

1:43:02.520 --> 1:43:05.040
<v Speaker 8>We're just asking people to help support our cause so

1:43:05.080 --> 1:43:07.959
<v Speaker 8>we can fight for the opportunity for them to continue

1:43:07.960 --> 1:43:10.960
<v Speaker 8>to apply. I mean mountain lions, you know they don't

1:43:10.960 --> 1:43:12.920
<v Speaker 8>eat celery and kale. I mean they eat deer in

1:43:13.000 --> 1:43:14.880
<v Speaker 8>elk and wolves are going to do the same thing.

1:43:14.920 --> 1:43:17.800
<v Speaker 8>Our bear population has expanded significantly. They're going to eat

1:43:18.000 --> 1:43:20.360
<v Speaker 8>you know, a lot of deer and elk. You have

1:43:20.439 --> 1:43:22.920
<v Speaker 8>that many apex predators on the landscape with five point

1:43:23.000 --> 1:43:25.360
<v Speaker 8>nine million people and habitat loss and you know the

1:43:25.400 --> 1:43:28.680
<v Speaker 8>amount of recreation that we have. Our elk populations and

1:43:28.760 --> 1:43:31.680
<v Speaker 8>deer populations are not in peril. What are they going

1:43:31.720 --> 1:43:33.880
<v Speaker 8>to be in ten years? I mean, we have to

1:43:33.640 --> 1:43:36.160
<v Speaker 8>do some sort of preparation for down the road, for

1:43:36.320 --> 1:43:38.519
<v Speaker 8>sustainable management opportunities.

1:43:38.000 --> 1:43:40.760
<v Speaker 3>As other as irritates people. This is the thing that

1:43:40.880 --> 1:43:41.439
<v Speaker 3>troubles me.

1:43:41.760 --> 1:43:45.880
<v Speaker 2>Uh if you say, like if a hunter, if a

1:43:45.920 --> 1:43:49.120
<v Speaker 2>big game hunter says, oh no, no, no, you know, I

1:43:49.200 --> 1:43:50.759
<v Speaker 2>welcome predators being on the ground.

1:43:50.800 --> 1:43:51.519
<v Speaker 8>Oh yeah, but.

1:43:51.520 --> 1:43:53.479
<v Speaker 2>I like predator control because I like there to be

1:43:53.520 --> 1:43:54.800
<v Speaker 2>a lot of deer and elk. A lot of people

1:43:54.920 --> 1:43:55.280
<v Speaker 2>view that.

1:43:55.200 --> 1:43:58.200
<v Speaker 3>It as like a like a non defendable position, right,

1:43:58.520 --> 1:44:01.599
<v Speaker 3>But it's so funny because you see it reflected.

1:44:02.560 --> 1:44:06.639
<v Speaker 2>So widely in the animal kingdom. You know, kyotes ketch

1:44:06.640 --> 1:44:08.640
<v Speaker 2>a wolf, or wolves ketch a kyote, they kill it.

1:44:08.960 --> 1:44:11.000
<v Speaker 2>Kyote's ketch a fox, they kill it. It's sort of

1:44:11.000 --> 1:44:13.800
<v Speaker 2>this general tendency to want to be like, no, I'm

1:44:13.800 --> 1:44:17.120
<v Speaker 2>defending my hunk of the piece of the pie. But

1:44:17.240 --> 1:44:21.559
<v Speaker 2>I don't think it's that problematic, you know, I feel

1:44:21.600 --> 1:44:25.000
<v Speaker 2>that that hunters should be like morally emboldened to go

1:44:25.080 --> 1:44:28.880
<v Speaker 2>and say no, I want to defend high numbers of

1:44:28.960 --> 1:44:33.519
<v Speaker 2>dar and elk to support the hunting that I want

1:44:33.560 --> 1:44:36.280
<v Speaker 2>to do. Like I'm after, I'm chasing that number, like

1:44:36.439 --> 1:44:42.120
<v Speaker 2>high harvestable surpluses of dearon elk, and I will take

1:44:42.160 --> 1:44:45.120
<v Speaker 2>that fight to people that want to degrade habitat right,

1:44:45.160 --> 1:44:48.000
<v Speaker 2>which is gonna chip into my surplus. I'll take that

1:44:48.040 --> 1:44:50.840
<v Speaker 2>fight to people that want to degrade any kind of

1:44:50.840 --> 1:44:54.120
<v Speaker 2>predator control because that's fighting into my thing and that's

1:44:54.240 --> 1:44:56.439
<v Speaker 2>what I'm chasing, and that's what I'm interested in.

1:44:56.520 --> 1:44:59.759
<v Speaker 3>Like that, to me is a totally defendable position.

1:45:00.240 --> 1:45:02.320
<v Speaker 8>I think to like, I'm pro deer and elk, you're

1:45:02.320 --> 1:45:05.320
<v Speaker 8>pro dearing elk, but your pro wildlife period You know

1:45:05.400 --> 1:45:05.880
<v Speaker 8>I went through this.

1:45:06.000 --> 1:45:06.160
<v Speaker 2>I do know.

1:45:06.240 --> 1:45:11.599
<v Speaker 3>I advocate for listen man, never have, never will.

1:45:11.680 --> 1:45:15.400
<v Speaker 2>I do not advocate for the removal of any native wildlife.

1:45:15.520 --> 1:45:20.360
<v Speaker 8>No ever, no, and and so nor do I. I

1:45:20.400 --> 1:45:22.800
<v Speaker 8>didn't vote for the wolf deal because I don't think

1:45:22.800 --> 1:45:27.880
<v Speaker 8>it should be done by ballot box. Biology understand citizens initiatives.

1:45:27.920 --> 1:45:30.360
<v Speaker 8>I mean if they walk or they walk in well

1:45:30.640 --> 1:45:32.599
<v Speaker 8>they did like they did that we had to turn

1:45:32.640 --> 1:45:36.000
<v Speaker 8>around and kind of influence, you know, an ongoing program

1:45:36.040 --> 1:45:38.479
<v Speaker 8>for that. I don't I don't believe in ballot box

1:45:38.520 --> 1:45:41.760
<v Speaker 8>biology for any wildlife make a decision. If that's the case,

1:45:41.840 --> 1:45:43.800
<v Speaker 8>why do we have three hundred and fifty scientists in

1:45:43.840 --> 1:45:46.799
<v Speaker 8>our agency. I don't think that the Gallant Whole Foods

1:45:46.800 --> 1:45:49.320
<v Speaker 8>are the lift driver or the guy that drives for

1:45:49.439 --> 1:45:52.360
<v Speaker 8>ups or the rock Rockies left fielder. I don't think

1:45:52.400 --> 1:45:56.080
<v Speaker 8>they should be able to turn around and you know, yeah,

1:45:56.760 --> 1:45:58.280
<v Speaker 8>I don't think they should be able to turn around

1:45:58.320 --> 1:46:01.600
<v Speaker 8>and decide what our wildlife management agencies are stuck with,

1:46:01.760 --> 1:46:04.439
<v Speaker 8>you know, I mean it puts them into such a

1:46:04.479 --> 1:46:08.920
<v Speaker 8>significant position of trying to do what's right when they're

1:46:08.960 --> 1:46:11.880
<v Speaker 8>forced to do something that they know doesn't balance with

1:46:11.920 --> 1:46:15.000
<v Speaker 8>what their management plans on seventy other game species are.

1:46:15.240 --> 1:46:19.080
<v Speaker 9>Have you seen any backlash, Like in the COVID era,

1:46:19.240 --> 1:46:22.479
<v Speaker 9>it became like this thing, like like we always say

1:46:22.479 --> 1:46:26.559
<v Speaker 9>trust the science, trust the biologists, but it's also become

1:46:26.640 --> 1:46:29.120
<v Speaker 9>this thing in the last few years to be like, well,

1:46:29.120 --> 1:46:32.800
<v Speaker 9>the scientists are full of shit, like people. It's a

1:46:32.800 --> 1:46:36.559
<v Speaker 9>thing now where people don't trust the science, and like

1:46:36.680 --> 1:46:38.840
<v Speaker 9>I see that as kind of a challenge when you're

1:46:38.840 --> 1:46:42.280
<v Speaker 9>like trust these wildlife management agencies, because a lot of

1:46:42.320 --> 1:46:44.000
<v Speaker 9>people are have a tendency to.

1:46:44.920 --> 1:46:45.599
<v Speaker 3>Not do that.

1:46:45.760 --> 1:46:48.919
<v Speaker 2>Trust the science is law. I can't say it anymore,

1:46:48.960 --> 1:46:51.479
<v Speaker 2>I know, but because you know, yeah, but that trust

1:46:51.560 --> 1:46:54.720
<v Speaker 2>the science thing after COVID it needs a break because

1:46:54.760 --> 1:46:57.760
<v Speaker 2>it got so abused by everybody on all sides where

1:46:57.800 --> 1:46:59.560
<v Speaker 2>you like the science is whatever.

1:46:59.360 --> 1:47:03.320
<v Speaker 3>You right, So in this argument from your body at

1:47:03.320 --> 1:47:04.080
<v Speaker 3>the maybe.

1:47:04.080 --> 1:47:07.840
<v Speaker 9>It's a tough position to put you know, these agencies

1:47:07.880 --> 1:47:09.240
<v Speaker 9>and to be like trust trust as well.

1:47:09.280 --> 1:47:09.400
<v Speaker 7>Well.

1:47:09.479 --> 1:47:13.960
<v Speaker 8>But in my argument to that has been followed the science, right,

1:47:14.560 --> 1:47:16.840
<v Speaker 8>you got you got fifty eighty one hundred years of

1:47:16.920 --> 1:47:21.040
<v Speaker 8>data and science and studies and population densities and models

1:47:21.040 --> 1:47:25.960
<v Speaker 8>and objectives. To me, that's that's worthy. When somebody comes

1:47:26.000 --> 1:47:29.360
<v Speaker 8>out from March seventeenth of twenty twenty to March thirtieth

1:47:29.400 --> 1:47:31.120
<v Speaker 8>and says, follow the science, wear a mask at all

1:47:31.120 --> 1:47:33.240
<v Speaker 8>these shots. Okay, well two weeks of science really isn't

1:47:33.400 --> 1:47:35.439
<v Speaker 8>what I want to follow. That's that's that's more of

1:47:35.439 --> 1:47:38.080
<v Speaker 8>what I want you to do. Forty fifty sixty years.

1:47:38.439 --> 1:47:40.720
<v Speaker 8>I think that that's a track record that you can use.

1:47:40.920 --> 1:47:45.080
<v Speaker 8>You can sustainably support and because because there's so many

1:47:45.120 --> 1:47:46.200
<v Speaker 8>other components of that.

1:47:46.439 --> 1:47:48.120
<v Speaker 9>Well, yeah, I think a lot of people would have

1:47:48.560 --> 1:47:52.800
<v Speaker 9>no clue that since mountain lions like across the board

1:47:52.800 --> 1:47:56.240
<v Speaker 9>where they became managed as game animals, Yep, there's way

1:47:56.240 --> 1:47:58.720
<v Speaker 9>more of them now than there was, say eighty or

1:47:58.760 --> 1:47:59.639
<v Speaker 9>one hundred years ago.

1:48:00.200 --> 1:48:02.880
<v Speaker 2>Instead of trust the science, sorry, anam, Instead of trust

1:48:02.880 --> 1:48:06.840
<v Speaker 2>the science, I'm like, trust the process when you've had

1:48:06.840 --> 1:48:11.120
<v Speaker 2>similar things happen. We're trying to with federal the federal

1:48:11.200 --> 1:48:15.080
<v Speaker 2>government trying to influence Alaska's wildlife manager practices, for instance,

1:48:15.080 --> 1:48:17.479
<v Speaker 2>like helmet by, what right do you have to go

1:48:17.520 --> 1:48:23.520
<v Speaker 2>after them? They have a completely intact menagerie of wildlife.

1:48:24.760 --> 1:48:26.800
<v Speaker 2>They have wolves and grizzlies occupying like I don't know

1:48:26.800 --> 1:48:30.360
<v Speaker 2>what ninety six percent of historic range. They don't have

1:48:30.439 --> 1:48:34.800
<v Speaker 2>extra patients. They're still trying to go in catalog wildlife.

1:48:35.000 --> 1:48:40.559
<v Speaker 2>They're not in recovery mode. Where is the criticism with

1:48:40.680 --> 1:48:43.679
<v Speaker 2>Colorado fishing gimmick? Where is the evidence that they're messing up?

1:48:44.080 --> 1:48:47.320
<v Speaker 9>Yeah, but even in Alaska they've tried to with a

1:48:47.320 --> 1:48:48.719
<v Speaker 9>whole like crawling into dens.

1:48:48.840 --> 1:48:50.400
<v Speaker 2>Well, no, that's what I'm saying, Like I'm talking about

1:48:50.400 --> 1:48:52.679
<v Speaker 2>that attack on them. It is like where like show

1:48:52.800 --> 1:48:56.680
<v Speaker 2>me where Alaska fishing game, Like show me where they're

1:48:56.720 --> 1:49:00.400
<v Speaker 2>screwing up, or with with fishing with Colorado, Like show

1:49:00.439 --> 1:49:01.600
<v Speaker 2>me where the state is messing up.

1:49:01.640 --> 1:49:02.720
<v Speaker 3>Can you go and point to.

1:49:02.720 --> 1:49:06.280
<v Speaker 2>Me that that is it? What was the FW What

1:49:06.320 --> 1:49:08.400
<v Speaker 2>is it there? FWP is not f WP.

1:49:08.200 --> 1:49:13.200
<v Speaker 3>It's CW change prks in Colorado, Okay, whatever the hell.

1:49:13.720 --> 1:49:18.439
<v Speaker 2>Colorado's Fishing Game Agency and it's in its current form

1:49:18.600 --> 1:49:22.479
<v Speaker 2>over decades. Show me where they have been letting game

1:49:22.560 --> 1:49:27.679
<v Speaker 2>animals uh slip through their grasp and slip into extinction

1:49:28.240 --> 1:49:29.280
<v Speaker 2>or slip into extirpation.

1:49:29.800 --> 1:49:33.200
<v Speaker 3>It's like there's no evidence. Maybe they might make little mistakes.

1:49:33.240 --> 1:49:35.479
<v Speaker 2>Everyone does. There's no evidence that they're shitting the bed.

1:49:37.200 --> 1:49:39.439
<v Speaker 2>So it's like trust the science, going like I don't know,

1:49:39.600 --> 1:49:42.479
<v Speaker 2>trust the last seventy five.

1:49:42.400 --> 1:49:44.160
<v Speaker 3>Years or whatever the hell it is that they're not

1:49:44.280 --> 1:49:44.920
<v Speaker 3>like losing.

1:49:45.040 --> 1:49:47.680
<v Speaker 2>It's not like, oh, yeah, we were supposed to be

1:49:47.800 --> 1:49:49.960
<v Speaker 2>managing those but they all they're gone now.

1:49:50.720 --> 1:49:51.920
<v Speaker 8>We didn't even know they were here.

1:49:52.479 --> 1:49:55.679
<v Speaker 3>It's just not happening, Like they're not messing up.

1:49:56.080 --> 1:49:59.479
<v Speaker 4>I think I think one challenge is like the average

1:49:59.479 --> 1:50:02.320
<v Speaker 4>person on the street probably thinks of mountain lions as

1:50:02.400 --> 1:50:06.360
<v Speaker 4>like this rare, inherently threatened thing because they don't see them, right,

1:50:06.439 --> 1:50:09.960
<v Speaker 4>It's not standing in some agfield as they blow by

1:50:10.040 --> 1:50:10.760
<v Speaker 4>on the interstate.

1:50:11.320 --> 1:50:13.799
<v Speaker 3>And so I think like that is probably a big.

1:50:13.640 --> 1:50:16.879
<v Speaker 4>Challenge in the educational components, Like these animals are thriving

1:50:17.479 --> 1:50:21.640
<v Speaker 4>over the past, however many decades, and it's especially you know,

1:50:22.160 --> 1:50:24.639
<v Speaker 4>impactful when you consider all the habitat that's been lost

1:50:24.640 --> 1:50:26.599
<v Speaker 4>as the front range is grown and all this stuff.

1:50:26.640 --> 1:50:30.880
<v Speaker 4>Like the average person on the street, I wonder did

1:50:30.920 --> 1:50:34.400
<v Speaker 4>they even know like the story of mountain lions in Colorado,

1:50:34.400 --> 1:50:35.120
<v Speaker 4>I'd wager or not.

1:50:35.360 --> 1:50:37.719
<v Speaker 8>No. And to that point, I mean before the wolf

1:50:37.760 --> 1:50:40.080
<v Speaker 8>issue came up, when when the wolf proponents went out

1:50:40.120 --> 1:50:42.080
<v Speaker 8>and asked and they've got a video on their website,

1:50:42.120 --> 1:50:44.000
<v Speaker 8>they went out and asked people about do we have

1:50:44.000 --> 1:50:47.040
<v Speaker 8>wolves in Colorado? And overwhelming like people like yeah, I

1:50:47.080 --> 1:50:50.559
<v Speaker 8>think so, don't we not sure? Yeah? Well i'd like to.

1:50:50.760 --> 1:50:54.000
<v Speaker 8>I mean, so they were priming the pump for that ignorance.

1:50:54.360 --> 1:50:57.160
<v Speaker 8>It's not stupidy, it's just ignorance. And I think it's

1:50:57.160 --> 1:50:57.720
<v Speaker 8>on the mountain lion.

1:50:57.840 --> 1:50:59.800
<v Speaker 3>I became a trick question because some had just shown

1:50:59.880 --> 1:51:00.639
<v Speaker 3>up exactly.

1:51:00.800 --> 1:51:03.320
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, you know, it's like, but I think, I think

1:51:03.560 --> 1:51:08.480
<v Speaker 8>that trying to convince people of your of your perspectives

1:51:09.040 --> 1:51:13.200
<v Speaker 8>from the misinformation is the way that most of our

1:51:13.240 --> 1:51:15.880
<v Speaker 8>losses have happened around the country when it comes to wildlife.

1:51:16.000 --> 1:51:18.200
<v Speaker 8>I mean, you just like you said, you just you

1:51:18.280 --> 1:51:21.240
<v Speaker 8>create this this fake story out there, and you say

1:51:21.280 --> 1:51:24.160
<v Speaker 8>it enough and pretty much people start to believe it.

1:51:24.200 --> 1:51:29.960
<v Speaker 8>But but and I want to cover this because our

1:51:30.080 --> 1:51:32.960
<v Speaker 8>organizations that were all members of that we support that

1:51:33.080 --> 1:51:34.920
<v Speaker 8>were that, you know, we get the magazines on a

1:51:34.920 --> 1:51:38.519
<v Speaker 8>regular basis, all the academ groups, they do the yeoman's work.

1:51:38.560 --> 1:51:41.040
<v Speaker 8>I've said this over and over. I'm partners with them,

1:51:41.520 --> 1:51:43.160
<v Speaker 8>but they haven't done a very damn good job for

1:51:43.200 --> 1:51:45.160
<v Speaker 8>the last forty years of talking to the general public.

1:51:45.479 --> 1:51:47.840
<v Speaker 8>They talk to the sportsman community, they talk to the

1:51:48.000 --> 1:51:52.080
<v Speaker 8>to the agriculture community. Because they work close close, hand

1:51:52.160 --> 1:51:54.760
<v Speaker 8>in hand with them. We need to start advertising. We

1:51:54.800 --> 1:51:57.680
<v Speaker 8>need to start talking regularly to the general public to

1:51:57.760 --> 1:52:01.519
<v Speaker 8>tell the conservation story and making sure that you know,

1:52:01.560 --> 1:52:04.320
<v Speaker 8>I mean, every Christmas time everybody sees the ASPCA and

1:52:04.360 --> 1:52:06.559
<v Speaker 8>the Humane Society commercials and stuff that are out there.

1:52:06.720 --> 1:52:09.160
<v Speaker 8>Not all that money goes to, you know, helping the

1:52:09.160 --> 1:52:12.479
<v Speaker 8>little puppies and the kittens. I mean, that's an advertising employee.

1:52:13.400 --> 1:52:16.639
<v Speaker 3>HSUS and local humane societies are two different things.

1:52:16.720 --> 1:52:19.880
<v Speaker 9>For a while, there were those hug a Hunter campaigns.

1:52:21.360 --> 1:52:23.439
<v Speaker 9>It seems like those things kind of died out.

1:52:23.520 --> 1:52:26.880
<v Speaker 8>We're doing the campaign that you talk about. I'm the

1:52:26.960 --> 1:52:29.360
<v Speaker 8>chair of the Wildlife Council and I've been on that

1:52:29.439 --> 1:52:33.120
<v Speaker 8>for seven years. It started in nineteen ninety eight, and

1:52:32.720 --> 1:52:37.400
<v Speaker 8>that changes and morphs into something regularly to differ with

1:52:37.520 --> 1:52:40.920
<v Speaker 8>public perception. Because your demographics that you were talking to

1:52:41.000 --> 1:52:43.360
<v Speaker 8>between eighteen and thirty four, if you did that twenty

1:52:43.439 --> 1:52:45.599
<v Speaker 8>years ago, they were you know, now they're fifty five

1:52:45.680 --> 1:52:47.920
<v Speaker 8>or whatever the hell it is. So they have different

1:52:48.880 --> 1:52:52.120
<v Speaker 8>perspectives and perceptions, so they need to be educated differently.

1:52:52.160 --> 1:52:53.920
<v Speaker 8>But hopefully you did a good enough job on that

1:52:54.040 --> 1:52:56.360
<v Speaker 8>target audience. But then you've got so many of the

1:52:56.360 --> 1:52:58.720
<v Speaker 8>other ones that are coming in underneath of that that

1:52:58.760 --> 1:53:02.960
<v Speaker 8>they're being able to name wolves, you know, and and

1:53:03.040 --> 1:53:08.280
<v Speaker 8>hopefully somebody didn't kill you know, Margaret the wolf because

1:53:08.280 --> 1:53:10.320
<v Speaker 8>they're going to be bastardized for it. Well, then those

1:53:10.400 --> 1:53:14.040
<v Speaker 8>kids get a bad perception on wolf management because it

1:53:14.120 --> 1:53:16.960
<v Speaker 8>didn't work, and it's the wolf that they named. Well,

1:53:16.960 --> 1:53:18.639
<v Speaker 8>if they start doing that with mountain wins and deer

1:53:18.640 --> 1:53:19.920
<v Speaker 8>and elk and everything else. I mean, why do you

1:53:19.960 --> 1:53:22.080
<v Speaker 8>think Bambi is such a bad deal? You know, it's

1:53:22.080 --> 1:53:24.439
<v Speaker 8>because we all grew up and you know, Bambi's dad

1:53:24.479 --> 1:53:24.960
<v Speaker 8>got killed.

1:53:25.040 --> 1:53:27.679
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, man, you get in the name and bus people

1:53:27.800 --> 1:53:29.120
<v Speaker 3>name them because they want to get.

1:53:29.000 --> 1:53:31.520
<v Speaker 8>Them exactly, you know, exactly.

1:53:32.000 --> 1:53:37.000
<v Speaker 3>You know, if a buck's got a name, you watch that.

1:53:38.280 --> 1:53:39.960
<v Speaker 3>I like hug of Houndsman, that'd be a good little

1:53:40.000 --> 1:53:41.559
<v Speaker 3>campaign for Yannie. I'll go give Yanni.

1:53:41.760 --> 1:53:43.200
<v Speaker 5>Was that campaign successful?

1:53:43.640 --> 1:53:47.280
<v Speaker 8>That campaign was extremely successful. And the reason being is

1:53:47.320 --> 1:53:49.280
<v Speaker 8>because they didn't talk to us in this room. They

1:53:49.360 --> 1:53:52.000
<v Speaker 8>talked to the general public. That's why it was so successful.

1:53:52.160 --> 1:53:54.080
<v Speaker 8>I mean, I joked about it. The reason I got

1:53:54.120 --> 1:53:56.720
<v Speaker 8>on is as the counsel and I applied because they

1:53:56.720 --> 1:53:59.800
<v Speaker 8>came up with a talking deer campaign and I thought, Okay,

1:54:00.000 --> 1:54:04.000
<v Speaker 8>it's just not the way that we needed. Yeah yeah,

1:54:04.800 --> 1:54:06.799
<v Speaker 8>just like the talking bass on the wall or something.

1:54:07.800 --> 1:54:09.920
<v Speaker 8>But the reason I got involved because I thought that

1:54:09.920 --> 1:54:12.120
<v Speaker 8>that wasn't the right way to go, and they the

1:54:12.200 --> 1:54:15.720
<v Speaker 8>council had that that one campaign that one year, but

1:54:15.880 --> 1:54:19.360
<v Speaker 8>the hug a hunter deal that resonated with the people

1:54:19.680 --> 1:54:22.080
<v Speaker 8>that were out in the field that didn't hunt because

1:54:22.320 --> 1:54:24.599
<v Speaker 8>they understood where some of that money was coming from,

1:54:24.680 --> 1:54:26.680
<v Speaker 8>so they could actually know that wildlife was taking care

1:54:26.720 --> 1:54:29.840
<v Speaker 8>of appropriately and that it was on the landscape. Now

1:54:29.880 --> 1:54:33.040
<v Speaker 8>that we've got a different demographic, our audience has changed.

1:54:33.240 --> 1:54:35.920
<v Speaker 8>We have a Science in the Wild campaign that's going

1:54:35.960 --> 1:54:38.400
<v Speaker 8>on right now. It started November fifteenth and it's going

1:54:38.440 --> 1:54:41.640
<v Speaker 8>all the way through this next June. But it is

1:54:41.680 --> 1:54:44.560
<v Speaker 8>I mean, you put you put thirty different people in line,

1:54:44.960 --> 1:54:46.840
<v Speaker 8>and you put a game boarden or somebody with a

1:54:46.880 --> 1:54:48.480
<v Speaker 8>badge and an emblem and a gun in the truck

1:54:48.520 --> 1:54:49.720
<v Speaker 8>with a badge on it, and you say, who do

1:54:49.760 --> 1:54:52.080
<v Speaker 8>you trust to manage your wildlife? People point to the

1:54:52.080 --> 1:54:56.280
<v Speaker 8>game boarding. They don't point to the pink haired nosering extremist.

1:54:56.760 --> 1:54:58.960
<v Speaker 8>You know, they don't point to me or you because

1:54:59.000 --> 1:55:02.040
<v Speaker 8>we're standing there doing They want the expert taking care

1:55:02.040 --> 1:55:04.800
<v Speaker 8>of it. And I think pushing that narrative in that

1:55:04.880 --> 1:55:08.240
<v Speaker 8>tone resonates with the target audience enough to where they go,

1:55:08.360 --> 1:55:13.000
<v Speaker 8>I want experts to do my work, and I'm confident

1:55:13.040 --> 1:55:15.520
<v Speaker 8>that when November fifth comes along with our campaign that

1:55:15.520 --> 1:55:17.640
<v Speaker 8>we're going to have to do in August, September, and October,

1:55:18.360 --> 1:55:20.960
<v Speaker 8>I'm confident that the people will enough of the people

1:55:21.000 --> 1:55:23.960
<v Speaker 8>will make it the right decision because they care about

1:55:24.040 --> 1:55:27.360
<v Speaker 8>Colorado's wildlife. But you know, people all around the country

1:55:27.680 --> 1:55:30.360
<v Speaker 8>better pay attention as well, because you've got to figure

1:55:30.360 --> 1:55:33.080
<v Speaker 8>out a way to build up your armament, build up

1:55:33.080 --> 1:55:35.280
<v Speaker 8>your war chest, and make sure that you prepare for

1:55:35.320 --> 1:55:39.240
<v Speaker 8>the inevitable, because, like you mentioned, Steve, I mean, we're

1:55:39.280 --> 1:55:42.040
<v Speaker 8>not singular. It goes to every state in some capacity,

1:55:42.360 --> 1:55:45.120
<v Speaker 8>you know. I mean it might be crayfish, might be muskrats,

1:55:45.320 --> 1:55:48.240
<v Speaker 8>might be whatever. But it's going wherever they want to

1:55:48.280 --> 1:55:50.760
<v Speaker 8>take it that they feel the path of least resistance

1:55:50.800 --> 1:55:52.040
<v Speaker 8>and they feel a chink in the armor.

1:55:52.520 --> 1:55:57.520
<v Speaker 3>So at a point, how many months is November away,

1:55:57.520 --> 1:56:02.600
<v Speaker 3>I don't know, eight in eight months, they'll come down

1:56:02.640 --> 1:56:05.000
<v Speaker 3>to voting. Right now, you made it. I said, what

1:56:05.000 --> 1:56:08.720
<v Speaker 3>can people do? And you said, you know, jokingly but truthfully,

1:56:09.040 --> 1:56:11.640
<v Speaker 3>any money? Yeah, and where does the money need to go?

1:56:11.720 --> 1:56:13.320
<v Speaker 8>So the money needs to go? You can go on

1:56:13.360 --> 1:56:16.000
<v Speaker 8>to the website and Save the Hunt Colorado dot com

1:56:16.440 --> 1:56:18.760
<v Speaker 8>and there's a couple different options there that you can

1:56:18.800 --> 1:56:22.120
<v Speaker 8>participate in. The reason that we need the funding is

1:56:22.160 --> 1:56:26.000
<v Speaker 8>because the extremist have an endless amount of funding to

1:56:26.000 --> 1:56:28.080
<v Speaker 8>do a variety of different things. They're fighting, you know,

1:56:28.120 --> 1:56:31.800
<v Speaker 8>twenty things in twenty different states at different levels. We

1:56:31.880 --> 1:56:33.880
<v Speaker 8>need to be able to go punch for punch, tit

1:56:33.960 --> 1:56:38.240
<v Speaker 8>for tat with them on advertising because we're both talking

1:56:38.440 --> 1:56:40.800
<v Speaker 8>to the same audience. They're trying to get that middle

1:56:40.800 --> 1:56:42.520
<v Speaker 8>of the road eighty percent. We're trying to get the

1:56:42.520 --> 1:56:44.680
<v Speaker 8>middle of the road eighty percent. We're going to sway

1:56:44.680 --> 1:56:46.720
<v Speaker 8>some and they're going to sway some. But look how

1:56:46.800 --> 1:56:49.800
<v Speaker 8>close to wolf deal was at fifty one to forty nine.

1:56:50.640 --> 1:56:54.360
<v Speaker 8>If we're anywhere in that ballpark, we're gonna win. But

1:56:54.400 --> 1:56:56.959
<v Speaker 8>we have to be able to advertise to that audience

1:56:57.200 --> 1:57:00.960
<v Speaker 8>and get them to understand first about the science, second

1:57:01.000 --> 1:57:04.000
<v Speaker 8>about the experts that actually provide the science, and third

1:57:04.080 --> 1:57:07.680
<v Speaker 8>how it actually affects those individuals, just for they so

1:57:07.720 --> 1:57:11.440
<v Speaker 8>they know that they have sustainable wildlife populations on the landscape.

1:57:11.560 --> 1:57:13.640
<v Speaker 8>Everybody likes to see deer and elk, Everybody likes to

1:57:13.640 --> 1:57:16.760
<v Speaker 8>see bighorn sheep. You know that's you know I did

1:57:16.760 --> 1:57:19.480
<v Speaker 8>to deal with Shane Mahoney, and Shane says one of

1:57:19.520 --> 1:57:21.720
<v Speaker 8>the biggest things that all recreationists do is when they

1:57:21.760 --> 1:57:24.960
<v Speaker 8>go out to recreate rock climb without messing up the

1:57:25.040 --> 1:57:28.280
<v Speaker 8>raptor's nest and everything, killing everyone, killing every one of them.

1:57:28.680 --> 1:57:31.080
<v Speaker 8>But he said, everybody that goes out and they see wildlife,

1:57:31.360 --> 1:57:32.720
<v Speaker 8>the first thing they do is they come home and

1:57:32.720 --> 1:57:35.320
<v Speaker 8>tell people about the wildlife they saw. They didn't automatically

1:57:35.320 --> 1:57:37.800
<v Speaker 8>start telling them about their rock climbing incident or their

1:57:37.960 --> 1:57:40.040
<v Speaker 8>mountain bike rack or whatever, unless they were you know,

1:57:40.320 --> 1:57:43.240
<v Speaker 8>bunnged up or something. But they tell them about the wildlife.

1:57:43.240 --> 1:57:45.240
<v Speaker 8>They tell them about I saw a mountainlon or I

1:57:45.280 --> 1:57:47.360
<v Speaker 8>heard a wolf, or I saw a moose, or I

1:57:47.360 --> 1:57:51.000
<v Speaker 8>saw a coyote eat rabbit. Because because we connect with nature,

1:57:52.440 --> 1:57:55.880
<v Speaker 8>once people understand how that connection affects them and where

1:57:55.880 --> 1:57:59.120
<v Speaker 8>it comes from, they're more likely to support the science

1:57:59.200 --> 1:58:02.040
<v Speaker 8>and follow the science and follow the component that has

1:58:02.080 --> 1:58:04.120
<v Speaker 8>been able to fuel and fund that whole program for

1:58:04.160 --> 1:58:06.120
<v Speaker 8>the last you know, one hundred and twenty five years.

1:58:07.160 --> 1:58:09.440
<v Speaker 8>So if they go to save the hunt coloradder dot com,

1:58:09.440 --> 1:58:12.480
<v Speaker 8>they can contribute. There's also the initiatives that are on

1:58:12.520 --> 1:58:15.840
<v Speaker 8>the website that they can look at. Initiative ninety one

1:58:15.920 --> 1:58:17.480
<v Speaker 8>is the one that we're dealing with, even though that's

1:58:17.480 --> 1:58:19.720
<v Speaker 8>not going to be the final initiative. They'll change the

1:58:19.800 --> 1:58:21.560
<v Speaker 8>number when they get through the process to put it

1:58:21.600 --> 1:58:24.880
<v Speaker 8>on the ballot. But we want people to educate themselves

1:58:25.080 --> 1:58:28.280
<v Speaker 8>and educate their peers and congregation and coworkers and everybody,

1:58:28.440 --> 1:58:31.880
<v Speaker 8>because without education, we're no better as far as the

1:58:31.920 --> 1:58:35.600
<v Speaker 8>ignorance on the landscape as well. You know, Yannie talked

1:58:35.600 --> 1:58:41.000
<v Speaker 8>about the hound part of it. Read the initiatively specifically

1:58:41.000 --> 1:58:43.480
<v Speaker 8>wants to take hound hunting out along with mountain lion hunting.

1:58:43.520 --> 1:58:48.480
<v Speaker 8>But they talk about electronic ecollers, training callers. They testified

1:58:48.560 --> 1:58:50.760
<v Speaker 8>during their Supreme Court or their title Board hearings. Their

1:58:50.800 --> 1:58:52.840
<v Speaker 8>attorney did that, we don't think you should hunt with

1:58:52.920 --> 1:58:56.600
<v Speaker 8>any dog period. Read the language in there. If they

1:58:56.640 --> 1:58:59.960
<v Speaker 8>set that as statutory language, what about upland bird dogs,

1:59:00.040 --> 1:59:02.640
<v Speaker 8>what about waterfowl dogs, what about coon dogs? I mean,

1:59:02.840 --> 1:59:04.960
<v Speaker 8>guys are starting to pay attention because they read what

1:59:05.040 --> 1:59:07.600
<v Speaker 8>it says, not what somebody interprets it. And it's like, well,

1:59:08.720 --> 1:59:10.440
<v Speaker 8>it doesn't say mountain lion dogs.

1:59:10.760 --> 1:59:12.800
<v Speaker 3>Because a view into their mindset.

1:59:12.440 --> 1:59:16.320
<v Speaker 8>Exactly and you can understand where people should really pay

1:59:16.480 --> 1:59:21.600
<v Speaker 8>close attention. I did a presentation on Saturday to the

1:59:21.640 --> 1:59:25.280
<v Speaker 8>Fremont Cattleman's Association in Colorado, and I said that, and

1:59:25.320 --> 1:59:27.120
<v Speaker 8>one guy said, well, wait a minute, wait a minute,

1:59:27.480 --> 1:59:30.600
<v Speaker 8>does that include stock dogs? That's one right now, it's

1:59:30.640 --> 1:59:33.000
<v Speaker 8>not mentioned in here. But why couldn't you turn around

1:59:33.000 --> 1:59:34.760
<v Speaker 8>and go to an animal cruelty deal because you want

1:59:34.800 --> 1:59:37.760
<v Speaker 8>to use electronic training devices or collars on your dogs.

1:59:38.560 --> 1:59:41.520
<v Speaker 8>So it's people need to read into the intent of

1:59:41.560 --> 1:59:44.360
<v Speaker 8>what they're trying to accomplish with this. They need to

1:59:44.480 --> 1:59:47.640
<v Speaker 8>understand that it's not singular. They need to understand you

1:59:47.640 --> 1:59:49.720
<v Speaker 8>could the way it's written, you could take bobcats and

1:59:49.720 --> 1:59:51.960
<v Speaker 8>mountain lions out and put any other species in. But

1:59:52.000 --> 1:59:54.680
<v Speaker 8>then look at the other components of that. Educate yourself.

1:59:55.200 --> 1:59:58.920
<v Speaker 8>Because these guys are so well structured and their plans

1:59:58.920 --> 2:00:03.120
<v Speaker 8>are so well formulated that you know they're looking at

2:00:03.120 --> 2:00:06.560
<v Speaker 8>New Mexico, they're looking at Arizona, they're looking at Nevada,

2:00:07.120 --> 2:00:12.360
<v Speaker 8>because if they're successful in Colorado, they don't have to

2:00:12.400 --> 2:00:15.040
<v Speaker 8>go to Colorado again unless it's on another species. So

2:00:15.080 --> 2:00:16.960
<v Speaker 8>they go to the next state and they start to

2:00:16.960 --> 2:00:19.800
<v Speaker 8>build that momentum with the legislators, then the message starts

2:00:19.800 --> 2:00:22.240
<v Speaker 8>to resonate well with the general public, and pretty soon

2:00:22.280 --> 2:00:24.640
<v Speaker 8>the lies just take over, like locus on the cornfield.

2:00:26.200 --> 2:00:30.040
<v Speaker 5>Well, I think you know one thing is we kind

2:00:30.040 --> 2:00:33.680
<v Speaker 5>of start to wrap up here. Broad and diverse coalitions

2:00:34.120 --> 2:00:37.440
<v Speaker 5>are what really win these fights, right, So as we

2:00:37.640 --> 2:00:40.880
<v Speaker 5>narrow way down right, we already discussed like if you're

2:00:41.280 --> 2:00:45.160
<v Speaker 5>the hound hunter representing the hound hunters groups and you're

2:00:45.200 --> 2:00:49.800
<v Speaker 5>trying to fight a major political campaign like this, you're

2:00:49.920 --> 2:00:53.120
<v Speaker 5>you're just you're outnumbered, you don't have as much of

2:00:53.160 --> 2:01:00.720
<v Speaker 5>a voice. So a broad, diverse coalition gains your your

2:01:00.880 --> 2:01:04.960
<v Speaker 5>your voice, right yeah, and your public awareness of the issue.

2:01:05.400 --> 2:01:08.480
<v Speaker 5>So I will tell you, like, if you have pink

2:01:08.520 --> 2:01:10.360
<v Speaker 5>hair and a nos ran, if you're an old lady

2:01:10.400 --> 2:01:16.440
<v Speaker 5>at Whole Foods, we want you damn straight. We want you.

2:01:16.680 --> 2:01:19.480
<v Speaker 5>Like if you like going outside and you're talking like

2:01:19.520 --> 2:01:22.120
<v Speaker 5>Shae Mahoney says, you went out and did your thing,

2:01:22.160 --> 2:01:24.360
<v Speaker 5>and you like talking about that wildlife that's out there,

2:01:24.640 --> 2:01:27.640
<v Speaker 5>you got to understand that this boring story that CPW

2:01:27.800 --> 2:01:31.120
<v Speaker 5>tells of like no major like oh my god, we

2:01:31.200 --> 2:01:33.480
<v Speaker 5>had to bring something back from the brink right, that's

2:01:33.480 --> 2:01:37.240
<v Speaker 5>because they're out there doing their jobs right, And like

2:01:37.680 --> 2:01:42.240
<v Speaker 5>good conservation stories come from catastrophic failures like crash of

2:01:42.320 --> 2:01:45.360
<v Speaker 5>duck numbers. Right, we talk about ducks all the time.

2:01:45.480 --> 2:01:47.320
<v Speaker 5>Is this huge win, But it's because we damn near

2:01:47.400 --> 2:01:51.080
<v Speaker 5>kill them all Right, We're talking these stories about grizzly bears,

2:01:51.440 --> 2:01:55.280
<v Speaker 5>but all that stuff in between, it's like it's been

2:01:55.400 --> 2:02:00.480
<v Speaker 5>a boring story because we've been winning, we've been made maintaining,

2:02:00.520 --> 2:02:04.600
<v Speaker 5>we're keeping that diversity of habitat. So you need to

2:02:04.920 --> 2:02:07.200
<v Speaker 5>understand that and appreciate it. We need to get more

2:02:07.200 --> 2:02:10.360
<v Speaker 5>diverse and more broad and talk to these groups that

2:02:10.800 --> 2:02:13.160
<v Speaker 5>you know, at first blush don't align with us. So

2:02:13.800 --> 2:02:18.040
<v Speaker 5>like hab if you're a mountain biker, rock climber, backcountry skier,

2:02:19.200 --> 2:02:23.240
<v Speaker 5>all of these things can be regulated to death, and

2:02:23.760 --> 2:02:28.360
<v Speaker 5>little fights like this have broad implications. Right, So broad.

2:02:28.480 --> 2:02:33.720
<v Speaker 8>Government oversight is one thing. Extreme oversight from the general

2:02:34.560 --> 2:02:37.080
<v Speaker 8>public to some degree, and I'm talking a very minute

2:02:37.200 --> 2:02:40.960
<v Speaker 8>section of the general public. That extremism is what's going

2:02:41.000 --> 2:02:43.520
<v Speaker 8>to alter so many different things that people look at

2:02:43.520 --> 2:02:46.480
<v Speaker 8>when it comes to outdoor recreation and conservation and wildlife management.

2:02:46.800 --> 2:02:50.400
<v Speaker 8>Because there's a small group that has the squeaky wheel

2:02:51.120 --> 2:02:54.600
<v Speaker 8>and they they're well funded, and the majority of our

2:02:54.640 --> 2:02:57.120
<v Speaker 8>community just wants to go hunt. We just want to

2:02:57.160 --> 2:02:58.880
<v Speaker 8>turn around and go scout and check our gain cameras

2:02:58.880 --> 2:03:00.560
<v Speaker 8>and get ready for season and do well. I mean,

2:03:02.080 --> 2:03:05.680
<v Speaker 8>what we're talking about right now is the least entertaining

2:03:05.840 --> 2:03:09.240
<v Speaker 8>component of your of your deal, your your dog deal,

2:03:09.280 --> 2:03:12.240
<v Speaker 8>the story you're l hunt. Nobody wants to listen to

2:03:12.280 --> 2:03:14.360
<v Speaker 8>this crap, but they have to listen to it if

2:03:14.360 --> 2:03:16.040
<v Speaker 8>they expect to be able to turn around and have

2:03:16.080 --> 2:03:18.040
<v Speaker 8>the story that you had and have the story that

2:03:18.080 --> 2:03:20.080
<v Speaker 8>you have, and to be able to do that what

2:03:20.160 --> 2:03:22.920
<v Speaker 8>you did, not what you did. But when I'm not

2:03:23.000 --> 2:03:24.640
<v Speaker 8>that big, yeah, not that big, they go back to

2:03:24.720 --> 2:03:28.240
<v Speaker 8>the spike. We're eating forty years of spike hunting. And

2:03:28.280 --> 2:03:32.120
<v Speaker 8>then but if we want to actually engage in that conversation,

2:03:32.240 --> 2:03:34.680
<v Speaker 8>there has to be a component of buy in from

2:03:34.720 --> 2:03:37.000
<v Speaker 8>the general public. And I think that the public is

2:03:37.040 --> 2:03:39.880
<v Speaker 8>there and wants to be educated. We were seeing that

2:03:39.960 --> 2:03:41.600
<v Speaker 8>on this level, the people that are reaching out at

2:03:41.640 --> 2:03:44.480
<v Speaker 8>so many different levels. I mean, I can't tell you

2:03:44.520 --> 2:03:46.120
<v Speaker 8>how many people just walk up to you and go,

2:03:46.360 --> 2:03:48.760
<v Speaker 8>hey I heard or hey I saw you or Hey,

2:03:48.800 --> 2:03:51.240
<v Speaker 8>I was told and they want to be They want

2:03:51.240 --> 2:03:52.640
<v Speaker 8>to be part of the solution. They want to be

2:03:52.720 --> 2:03:55.720
<v Speaker 8>part of the victory, not part of the problem. Hit

2:03:55.760 --> 2:03:57.960
<v Speaker 8>them again with where to go? Okay, save the hunt

2:03:57.960 --> 2:04:00.160
<v Speaker 8>Colorado dot com. There's a couple of different upper who

2:04:00.200 --> 2:04:02.600
<v Speaker 8>need is there. You can actually you can actually get

2:04:02.640 --> 2:04:06.240
<v Speaker 8>into a couple of different raffles that SCI is running

2:04:06.600 --> 2:04:08.800
<v Speaker 8>to help fund this measure.

2:04:08.240 --> 2:04:10.120
<v Speaker 3>Giving any guns out. He can get a better working gun.

2:04:10.400 --> 2:04:13.040
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, there is actually a gunworks. Gun is on there

2:04:13.600 --> 2:04:17.360
<v Speaker 8>to talk about shoes. So you can give me your

2:04:17.360 --> 2:04:22.320
<v Speaker 8>fifty dollars. Now, you can go on there, you can donate.

2:04:22.440 --> 2:04:23.960
<v Speaker 8>You can look at everything that we're doing as far

2:04:23.960 --> 2:04:26.480
<v Speaker 8>as videos and stuff. You can go on Instagram and

2:04:26.520 --> 2:04:30.120
<v Speaker 8>Facebook and find us cowm is on Instagram and call

2:04:30.240 --> 2:04:32.960
<v Speaker 8>Ruddings for Responsible Wilach Management on Facebook. I do want

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<v Speaker 8>to mention something. If you got time because of the

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<v Speaker 8>lies and deceit, I'm going to read you this and

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<v Speaker 8>I want you guys to get me your impression. This

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<v Speaker 8>is the ballot title for Denver this year, just for

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<v Speaker 8>the city and county voters of Dinner. It says, shall

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<v Speaker 8>the voters of the City and County of Denver adopted

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<v Speaker 8>an Ordinance concerning the Prohibition of fur Products and in

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<v Speaker 8>conjunction beginning of July first to twenty twenty five, prohibiting

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<v Speaker 8>the manufacturer, distribution, display, sale, or trade of certain animal

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<v Speaker 8>fur products in the city and providing limited exceptions to

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<v Speaker 8>the prohibition. They're talking about leather, two, No, but they're

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<v Speaker 8>talking about beaver felt cowboy hats. They're talking about fly

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<v Speaker 8>fishing material and yeah, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So when I asked about leather, I was just being

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<v Speaker 2>cute because somehow, once take the fur off, everybody's cool

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<v Speaker 2>with it.

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<v Speaker 8>Oh yeah, but you start. When you start, it doesn't

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<v Speaker 8>say that until you read it in the measure. This

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<v Speaker 8>is what they'll vote on for the title. You read

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<v Speaker 8>it in the measure and you go, what do you

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<v Speaker 8>mean in Denver? You can't buy a cowboy?

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<v Speaker 3>It's the death of the el caricatus.

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<v Speaker 8>Yeah, you know, I mean, look at all the mank

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<v Speaker 8>and the beaver stuff that's put on the on the

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<v Speaker 8>fly fishing lures and on the fishing lures and stuff.

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<v Speaker 8>You start, you start putting in. There's a there's a

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<v Speaker 8>component into that deal that they they made exceptions or

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<v Speaker 8>exemptions because they did they wanted to be uh hit

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<v Speaker 8>politically correct. So Native Americans can sell their artwork and

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<v Speaker 8>their crafts in the city of Denver, but you have

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<v Speaker 8>to be white or non to be able to buy it. Well,

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<v Speaker 8>how many times did the Denver March Powell or the

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<v Speaker 8>Indian market. Do you see that Native Americans are selling

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<v Speaker 8>to Native Americans? Maybe a little bit, But if you

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<v Speaker 8>if you're white and you want to go there, you

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<v Speaker 8>can't buy it because it says you have to be

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<v Speaker 8>Indigenous to be able to do it. They are feeding

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<v Speaker 8>off of the lies and deceit of the general public

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<v Speaker 8>on that the Slaughterhouse Band, the Mountain Lion and bobcat Ban.

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<v Speaker 8>And I hope that the general public wakes up, not

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<v Speaker 8>just in Colorado, but these things go on all around

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<v Speaker 8>the country and people go, well, oh, that happened in Cleveland,

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<v Speaker 8>or that happened in Dallas or that because it didn't

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<v Speaker 8>affect them. It's happening everywhere. And we have to figure

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<v Speaker 8>out a way to plant our flag draw line in

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<v Speaker 8>the sand and say, if the science says that we shouldn't,

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<v Speaker 8>then maybe that's what we should look at, especially from

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<v Speaker 8>a conservation standpoint. But I mean, you guys have the

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<v Speaker 8>ability to give a synopsis, a synthesize things that are

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<v Speaker 8>going on in the landscape. I'd encourage people to reach

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<v Speaker 8>out at every level to say, hey, there's something going

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<v Speaker 8>on in Washington, DC, or something going on in Sacramento,

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<v Speaker 8>because the average person doesn't know, and I'm not trying to,

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<v Speaker 8>you know, jump your inbox up. You're probably already have

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<v Speaker 8>that enough as it is. But you know, sorry, you're in.

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<v Speaker 8>But no, we we appreciate the opportunity to kind of

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<v Speaker 8>bring a little bit of a message to light because

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<v Speaker 8>it's something serious enough in Colorado that if we fall

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<v Speaker 8>in Colorado this year, you're going to see a lot

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<v Speaker 8>of other things happen behind this because it's easy to

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<v Speaker 8>turn around and take their momentum momentum and move it

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<v Speaker 8>to the next level.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, man, I appreciate you coming on, Appreciate the time,

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<v Speaker 3>Tell the site, tell where to go one more time.

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<v Speaker 8>Save the hunt Colorado dot com. It's the Colorado's for

2:07:39.000 --> 2:07:41.920
<v Speaker 8>Responsible Wildlife Management and you can get a lot of

2:07:41.960 --> 2:07:44.560
<v Speaker 8>information on there. But if they got if they have wishes,

2:07:44.600 --> 2:07:46.640
<v Speaker 8>once and desires, they could reach out and contact us

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<v Speaker 8>through the email chain on there as well.

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<v Speaker 11>Do it at the same time that you're applying for

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<v Speaker 11>your Colorado ELP tag. Just then pop over to CWRM

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<v Speaker 11>and CRWVRWNC give you twenty.

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<v Speaker 3>Bucks, Dan Gates, thanks for coming on.

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<v Speaker 8>Thanks you're doing. Thank you very much.

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<v Speaker 14>It's the Meter Podcast. It's the Meter Podcast, start to

2:08:19.600 --> 2:08:25.400
<v Speaker 14>day on ride with Ranilla and the crew.

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<v Speaker 12>With the Conservation Mind come the same. It's the Meat Podcast.

2:08:42.320 --> 2:08:47.200
<v Speaker 14>It's the Meter Podcast.

2:08:50.080 --> 2:09:05.320
<v Speaker 12>It's the Meat Podcast. It's the Me Farther Mooting the

2:09:08.560 --> 2:09:13.040
<v Speaker 14>Lot in nothing le