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Speaker 1: This is the meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listeningcast, you can't

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Speaker 1: predict anything.

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Speaker 2: The meat Eater Podcast is brought to you by First Light.

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Speaker 2: Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands, or scouting

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Speaker 2: for el, First Light has performance apparel to support every

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Speaker 2: hunter in every environment. Check it out at first light

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Speaker 2: dot com. F I R S T L I T

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Speaker 2: E dot com. Hey, everybody, listen up. I got I

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Speaker 2: got mega huge news. Me Eater Live is heading back

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Speaker 2: out on the road. That's right, Join me and the

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Speaker 2: crew talking Clay newcom cal Yannie, Spencer's gonna be there, Phil,

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Speaker 2: Phil the engineer is gonna be there. Meet it or

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Speaker 2: Live headed back out now. When you get every ticket, Okay,

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Speaker 2: every ticket you buy, you get a signed copy of

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Speaker 2: our new me Eater Outdoor Cookbook. This tour is celebrating

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Speaker 2: the release of the book. Buy a ticket, get a

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Speaker 2: signed copy Memeter Outdoor Cookbook. Wild Game recipes for the

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Speaker 2: grill smoker, campstoven campfire, which I'll point out is a

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Speaker 2: thirty eight dollars value. Here's where we're gonna go. April

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Speaker 2: twenty third, the Masa Arts Center in Mesa, Arizona, April

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Speaker 2: twenty four, The Balboa Theater in San Diego April twenty five,

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Speaker 2: The Grove in Anaheim, California, April twenty seven, The Crest

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Speaker 2: Theater and Sacramento April twenty nine, The Union in Salt

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Speaker 2: Lake City April thirty, The Egyptian in Boise May one,

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Speaker 2: The Wilma Theater in Missoula May two, The Bing Crosby

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Speaker 2: Theater in Spokane, Washington. May four, Revolution Hall in Portland, Oregon,

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Speaker 2: and May five, the last day of the tour, Pantagious

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Speaker 2: Theater in Tacoma, Washington. For ticket some more information, visit

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Speaker 2: the events page at themeeater dot com. We're not coming

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Speaker 2: to your neck of the woods, and you still want

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Speaker 2: to get your hands on a signed copy of our

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Speaker 2: new Me Eater Outdoor Cookbook, go to Signed Outdoor Cookbook

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Speaker 2: dot com or check out Barnes.

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Speaker 3: And Noble Online. Hope to see you at the show.

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Speaker 3: Welcome everybody.

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Speaker 2: We got two shows in one today because we're joined

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Speaker 2: by Dan Gates to talk about what's going on the topic,

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Speaker 2: as Krin wrote, it is what's going on in Colorado.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna get into what's going on in Colorado, which

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Speaker 2: if you're at Colorado, how do you.

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Speaker 3: Like to say that, Brody Coloradin, you're a.

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Speaker 2: Colorado you especially want to stay tuned. But if you're

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Speaker 2: just a general American, you'll want to stay tuned as well,

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Speaker 2: because what we're gonna talk about going on in Colorado

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Speaker 2: has implications for what's going on in America.

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Speaker 3: So stay tuned for that. But first the first part

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Speaker 3: of the show.

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Speaker 2: And then we're gonna we're gonna hear, We're gonna hear

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Speaker 2: a little bit from Jannis about a recent adventure. Ryan

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Speaker 2: Callahan's here, Brody Henderson's here. Randall, Doctor Randall's here with

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Speaker 2: a brain, new hair, been cutting his own hair, yep,

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Speaker 2: learned how to cut his own hair.

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Speaker 4: Learning to cut my own learning.

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Speaker 5: Because he's gonna take us through that process step by step.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we're actually doing a video series.

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Speaker 5: I love that.

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Speaker 2: And uh, the star of the show part one, Remember

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Speaker 2: I said this is two shows and one. The star

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Speaker 2: of show part one is Connor Smith.

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Speaker 3: How old are you? Connor?

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Speaker 6: Sixteen?

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Speaker 2: Sixteen? Connor Smith's sixteen years old. His mother, Alyssa, is

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Speaker 2: a colleague of ours, and he I've been hearing about.

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Speaker 3: This killed himself a big old bull.

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Speaker 7: Yeah it's uh.

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Speaker 2: At a Christmas party. Your mom showed me a picture

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Speaker 2: of it. And normally people are showing me pictures of

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Speaker 2: big bulls. That's just in one ear and out the other.

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Speaker 2: But I took note because one because you're her kid

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Speaker 2: and not like the neighbor's cousin's friend, which is a

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Speaker 2: lot of the big bulls you see, And two because

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Speaker 2: you kind of you did it real scrap you, like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: thirty ninth biggest bull ever killed in Montana?

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Speaker 7: About Yeah, what do you mean about might get kicked out?

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Speaker 3: Oh, you're gonna get kicked out.

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Speaker 7: My dad wants to shoot one bigger than me.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I thought you meant there was a like a

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Speaker 3: legal problem you were faced with or something like it

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Speaker 3: wasn't seasoned or something.

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Speaker 2: No, oh, so you're legit. Okay, tell me now. You

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Speaker 2: were telling me the story earlier, and I cut you

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Speaker 2: off because you got to the part about your guns

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Speaker 2: stopping working, and that's not a thing I usually hear

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Speaker 2: about firearms. So how did your tell me your gun

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Speaker 2: lay out?

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Speaker 8: Here?

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Speaker 7: Well, I had a three hundred that where we have

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Speaker 7: two three hundreds, one that my grand we were both

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Speaker 7: my grandfather gave me and so.

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Speaker 2: Your parents are tight. Yeah, you got two old grandpa guns.

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Speaker 2: M hm okay, I'm picturing.

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Speaker 7: And uh the first one I've been using for a

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Speaker 7: couple of years now. It's like I don't know how

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Speaker 7: old it is, but we brought it to the shooting

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Speaker 7: range and it just kept shooting like inconsistently. Got it like,

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Speaker 7: I think there's something wrong with the chambering. That's what

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Speaker 7: my grandfather kept keeps telling me.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmmm. So it's deep within the bowels of the gun.

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Speaker 3: It's not like a loose scope mount or something.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, and uh yeah, a week before the hunt, I

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Speaker 7: had a change to my dad's that's not my granddad's.

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Speaker 7: That's not my dad's, and then I used that.

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Speaker 3: For the hunt. So these are three hundred wind bags. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 3: I got it. So then you got tuned in and I'd.

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Speaker 5: Probably call it like yours now because it's not like

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Speaker 5: anybody else wants to use that gun, because it's like

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Speaker 5: you got the biggest ball with it.

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Speaker 8: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Well, maybe it's got good mojo so jiju whatever that

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Speaker 4: might be.

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Speaker 5: It does, but it might just be connors.

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Speaker 2: So gramps passes down one gun to you and one

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Speaker 2: gun to his kid, your dad. Yeah okay, and then

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Speaker 2: you get the one that Graham's now thinks is shoddy,

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Speaker 2: so you take the old man's gun.

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Speaker 3: Yeah okay. And then you got to have a spot

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Speaker 3: where you're going hunting. So it taught me through that.

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Speaker 3: Don't give me the spot, but like, tell me through

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Speaker 3: your your process here.

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Speaker 7: Well, I've going into last year. I had three points

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Speaker 7: and my dad put me in for a special pull

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Speaker 7: elk tag.

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Speaker 3: And I got your three bonus points.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, eleven chance odds.

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Speaker 3: You see, Cow's getting excited now.

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Speaker 2: Cal likes any story about youngsters with lots of points

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Speaker 2: drawing sweet tags man.

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Speaker 9: Taking opportunities away from him.

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Speaker 3: That's his favorite. That's his absolute favorite genre of saying no.

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Speaker 5: But you know, talking uh, talking with your mother. I

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Speaker 5: know that the family puts some sweat equity in out there.

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Speaker 3: So it wasn't just told, okay, continue on.

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Speaker 5: His dad was dragging him out of like banned class

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Speaker 5: that he'd rather be at because his dad did all

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Speaker 5: the work.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, alright, so just okay, I'm sorry to me.

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Speaker 3: Interre up. So you got you got into a special unit.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, and uh, I like got home from school one

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Speaker 7: day and.

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Speaker 3: Oh, back, you didn't do any scouting or anything.

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Speaker 6: Well, we've been scouting out there before.

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Speaker 7: And uh, I got home and my dad showed me

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Speaker 7: the draw odds and I drew the tag.

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Speaker 3: Gotcha okay?

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Speaker 5: And roughly what were the odds of you drawing the tag?

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Speaker 7: Do you remember?

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Speaker 8: Got it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? So it's the area you're you're familiar with, very

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Speaker 3: familiar with. Oh, how's this? Are you very familiar?

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Speaker 6: We've been hunting out there a couple of times.

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Speaker 3: So family members have drawn, well.

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Speaker 7: Not really, just we've been like shed hunting out there

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Speaker 7: and like scouting for an out tag.

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Speaker 3: Oh, just pre scout, just in case, just getting familiar

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Speaker 3: with the area. Yeah, got okay, Okay, So then what happens?

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Speaker 7: Uh, Well, we scouted all the summer through the summer

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Speaker 7: spring and all that.

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Speaker 3: And they kept going up there and checking in on it.

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Speaker 7: Yeah exactly, And we found a couple of sheds and yeah,

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Speaker 7: going into the season, we went a couple of days

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Speaker 7: before and we saw a bowl, a really nice ball.

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Speaker 7: It was a big five point actually, and uh we

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Speaker 7: scouted him, put him to the bed and waited for

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Speaker 7: the morning opening morning, and we woke up that morning.

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Speaker 5: Did you have a goal? It's like, how big of

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Speaker 5: a bull you're looking for?

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Speaker 7: Basically the first solid bull I found he killed.

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Speaker 6: Before before I've killed two bulls and one cow?

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Speaker 3: Sweet? What ye doing?

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Speaker 5: What regular?

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Speaker 7: Just regular hunting?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and did any of those come uh during the

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Speaker 5: youth season when you could?

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Speaker 3: There's no youth elk Oh, it's just deer, birds and turkeys, dude.

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Speaker 3: If there's a youth olt, yeah, I know.

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Speaker 8: I have more kids.

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Speaker 5: That's why I would have.

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Speaker 3: Never gotten the vast ectomy.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, I have to have them on.

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Speaker 5: Pot coached you up properly on on how these conversations

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Speaker 5: can go and how not to give away your landmarks.

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Speaker 5: And he's doing super good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I got nothing to go off. Well, no, I

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Speaker 2: do three points eleven percent odd. It's a real sharp feller.

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Speaker 2: I shouldn't have pointed that out.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, you've done more.

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Speaker 2: Someone real sharp on math with a sharp pencil. Gone

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Speaker 2: and blueball ad out Phil.

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Speaker 7: We Uh we watched this bowl at all?

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Speaker 6: Opening?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we watched it. Why not go get it because

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Speaker 3: you're just holding off.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, there was some other competition in the area too,

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Speaker 7: Just like there's a lot of like ravines and stuff

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Speaker 7: that these both this elk herd could have gone there.

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Speaker 7: So we just watched them and we're trying to watch

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Speaker 7: where they were going to go.

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Speaker 9: So he was with that, He wasn't solo, he was

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Speaker 9: with other out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, what's competition made from hunters?

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Speaker 6: Hunters?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I see, okay, and uh.

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Speaker 6: We watched these bulls.

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Speaker 7: We like rushed this bowl and like this group of cows,

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Speaker 7: and we watched them for a little bit, ran over

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Speaker 7: to like where we thought they were going to come

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Speaker 7: out at. And uh and you're hunting with your old man, Yeah,

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Speaker 7: is gramps there?

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Speaker 6: No, just my dad and my little brother.

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Speaker 3: Okay and uh little brothers how old he is?

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Speaker 6: Fourteen thirteen?

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Speaker 3: Much help?

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Speaker 6: He's a little a little bit.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, don't feel bad about not knowing ages. I

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Speaker 5: just give a height on most most younger folks.

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Speaker 7: So yeah, and uh, we watched these out come out

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Speaker 7: of this like ravine. I think the first opportunity I

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Speaker 7: had was that like five hundred and twenty three yards

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Speaker 7: at this five point.

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Speaker 3: You're so precise and know exactly where he was.

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Speaker 6: Watched them. We watched him for a little bit.

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Speaker 7: I thought I could get closer and he ended up

225
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Speaker 7: going into the timber out of sight. So we had

226
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Speaker 7: to wrap around and see if we could find him again.

227
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Speaker 7: And we we didn't know where they went, and we

228
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Speaker 7: thought they crossed the way and stuff, and we kind

229
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Speaker 7: of just walked around and we heard a bugle. M

230
00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,360
Speaker 7: heard a bugle like maybe fifty yards from us, and

231
00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:33,440
Speaker 7: what time of day it's about.

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Speaker 6: It was about like maybe seven eight.

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00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:38,760
Speaker 3: Ish fifty yards away.

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00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,440
Speaker 7: Yeah, and uh, they definitely spooked because we heard some

235
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Speaker 7: running in the trees and stuff.

236
00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,240
Speaker 2: And also maybe the kyles spooks and that made the

237
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Speaker 2: bull bugle because he's like, where's everybody going kind of thing, okay.

238
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Speaker 7: And uh, we kind of just followed those tracks up

239
00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:59,319
Speaker 7: this little this little hillside and we topped the ridge

240
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Speaker 7: and there was just a bowl like in the middle

241
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Speaker 7: of like all these trees. There's like one open patch and.

242
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Speaker 5: Just a ball or just the bull.

243
00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,320
Speaker 3: The bull all right, not the five point not the

244
00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:12,920
Speaker 3: five point whole different bawl, Yeah, a whole different didn't

245
00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:14,120
Speaker 3: know you know about him, but he's the one that

246
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Speaker 3: ripped a bugle probably presumably.

247
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Speaker 7: Yeah, we don't know. And just like in the middle

248
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Speaker 7: of like this all these trees. There's like one little

249
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Speaker 7: open patch of like grass and stuff. And he was

250
00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,440
Speaker 7: just standing there and I told my uh my dad

251
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Speaker 7: and my little brother to get down, and.

252
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Speaker 3: You told them to get down. Yeah they spotted it.

253
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Speaker 6: Yeah they didn't see it.

254
00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:42,720
Speaker 3: Humh okay, and uh yeah, he kept had to feel good.

255
00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:44,040
Speaker 6: He tried to keep walking.

256
00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:44,960
Speaker 7: He didn't.

257
00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:46,920
Speaker 3: He didn't believe me on the shoulder.

258
00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:51,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, get down, yeah yeah, and uh. He got out

259
00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:53,680
Speaker 7: the spotting scope and I kind of sat up on

260
00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:56,319
Speaker 7: this rock with my gun like looking at the bowl,

261
00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,760
Speaker 7: and he was like, it's at six hundred and eighty

262
00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:00,600
Speaker 7: nine yards.

263
00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:03,760
Speaker 6: And I was like, I got a whole another week

264
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Speaker 6: of the hunt.

265
00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:06,680
Speaker 7: Might as well try to pull the trigger and uh.

266
00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:11,040
Speaker 3: Hold it back up that that contradicts. Yeah, yeah, No,

267
00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:14,720
Speaker 3: you have a whole nother week of the hunt, so

268
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Speaker 3: might as well pull the trigger.

269
00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:16,680
Speaker 6: Yeah.

270
00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,320
Speaker 7: If I missed, then I got I got enough. I

271
00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:21,160
Speaker 7: got another week.

272
00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:25,200
Speaker 2: Because I could hear you finishing that sentence by saying, uh,

273
00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:26,120
Speaker 2: we got a whole nother.

274
00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:26,760
Speaker 3: Week of the hunt.

275
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Speaker 8: Let's not pull the trick.

276
00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,360
Speaker 3: So let's not pull the truck. Let's wait. So You're like,

277
00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:31,560
Speaker 3: we got a whold of the week of the hunt.

278
00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:32,400
Speaker 3: So let's take a shot.

279
00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:37,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, are you a holdover guy or you dialing a holdover?

280
00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:37,880
Speaker 5: Uh huh.

281
00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:43,760
Speaker 7: And it's it's like a little Christmas tree scope. It's

282
00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:47,160
Speaker 7: got what is it, five notches on it. The farthest

283
00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,000
Speaker 7: goes a six hundred, but there's like this little notch

284
00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:54,000
Speaker 7: at the very end that I used for seven hundred.

285
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Speaker 3: Okay, and you do a little bit long long distance shooting.

286
00:13:57,960 --> 00:13:59,920
Speaker 7: No, that was the first time I've ever sat that far.

287
00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:01,920
Speaker 3: Okay, go on.

288
00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:06,640
Speaker 7: So I missed the first shot and the ball just

289
00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:09,480
Speaker 7: stood there like nothing happened, and.

290
00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,520
Speaker 3: You're using your little extra post. Yeah again, Then what happened?

291
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:14,360
Speaker 7: My Dad's like, shoot again, shoot again?

292
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:15,679
Speaker 3: See where you hit?

293
00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:17,720
Speaker 7: Yeah, he was like, you missed high And I was like, okay,

294
00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:19,920
Speaker 7: I got to readjust for wind and all that, and

295
00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,240
Speaker 7: uh shot again, high backed him and his like back

296
00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:27,240
Speaker 7: legs dropped and he just kind of stood there again.

297
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:29,920
Speaker 7: And my Dad's like, float another one and shoot and

298
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,560
Speaker 7: I did double lung dum bam.

299
00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:33,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

300
00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:35,760
Speaker 7: He kind of walked off to the trees and bedded

301
00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,960
Speaker 7: down after that, and then what happened. We walked up

302
00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,800
Speaker 7: to him and he was dead. Yeah, just laying there.

303
00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:43,560
Speaker 3: And at what point did you go like, my goodness,

304
00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:44,480
Speaker 3: that's a big old bull.

305
00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:46,080
Speaker 8: Uh.

306
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,480
Speaker 7: When I got walked up to him, I didn't when

307
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,520
Speaker 7: I shot, I didn't see like how big he was.

308
00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,880
Speaker 7: I saw like the back whale tail and just was

309
00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:54,600
Speaker 7: like that's enough for me to see how.

310
00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:59,920
Speaker 8: Yeah it no ground shrinkers. Yeah yeah, yeah, he's like that,

311
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,520
Speaker 8: that's not the five point the uncommon ground groath.

312
00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:03,480
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

313
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,920
Speaker 7: And we walked up to it and we we kind

314
00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,120
Speaker 7: of talked about it. We thought it was in the

315
00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,600
Speaker 7: three seventy range. Huh, and we got it scored a

316
00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:18,000
Speaker 7: couple of weeks ago at three eighty seven net and

317
00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:19,200
Speaker 7: then three ninety three.

318
00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:26,040
Speaker 3: Gross. Oh that's wild. Get out here, all right, dismissed.

319
00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:31,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, gave us a lot to think about. Connor, thank you.

320
00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,160
Speaker 4: I've killed I've killed two balls that would that would

321
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:39,480
Speaker 4: fit under that three nineties.

322
00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:44,640
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, there, that's pretty incredible.

323
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, So now you realize here's the problem you're going

324
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,560
Speaker 2: to face now as you grow older, you might you

325
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:52,320
Speaker 2: probably already got the biggest helk you'll ever get.

326
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:55,120
Speaker 3: You realize that, Yeah, okay, you can't feel that.

327
00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,520
Speaker 7: Yeah, I've been told by a lot of people that.

328
00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,280
Speaker 3: People like to point out out. Is it as the

329
00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:01,400
Speaker 3: older people to point that out?

330
00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:03,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, well I think some of them are sitting around the.

331
00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:04,200
Speaker 3: Table right now.

332
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:05,560
Speaker 8: I did in the hallway out there.

333
00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:09,720
Speaker 3: That makes older people feel better.

334
00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:12,680
Speaker 7: I've been told I'm ruined for the rest of my life.

335
00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:14,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, let me give you piece of advice.

336
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,800
Speaker 2: We had a dude, There was a dude that named

337
00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:19,880
Speaker 2: Dustin Huff that was on the show and he killed uh.

338
00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,640
Speaker 2: I think it's what is the biggest typical typical biggest

339
00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:31,520
Speaker 2: typical white tail in America meaning not in Canada. Yeah, okay,

340
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:33,560
Speaker 2: because there's a bigger one there.

341
00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:35,280
Speaker 5: He's number two on the continent.

342
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,840
Speaker 3: So number two on the continent, number one in America,

343
00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,480
Speaker 3: which is what really matters. Yeah, we're all Americans here.

344
00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:43,440
Speaker 3: He uh.

345
00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,320
Speaker 2: When he set out that day he set out to kill,

346
00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:50,520
Speaker 2: he was like, my goal was to kill a personal best, okay, yeah,

347
00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:52,440
Speaker 2: and a personal best for him I can't remember. He

348
00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:54,280
Speaker 2: had killed like a one thirty white tail, so he

349
00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:59,000
Speaker 2: was looking for a personal best. So then he kills

350
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,520
Speaker 2: this thing that you know, we'll never be seen again. Yeah,

351
00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,080
Speaker 2: And I said, well, what is your attitude now? Because

352
00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:08,520
Speaker 2: you're like a personal best hunter. And he said, I'm

353
00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:10,760
Speaker 2: going to go back to where I was before I

354
00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:17,679
Speaker 2: killed that bart, So he had to just you know,

355
00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,080
Speaker 2: ignore that one and then plow ahead. Yeah, which is

356
00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:22,920
Speaker 2: probably how you're gonna want to approach things.

357
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:23,240
Speaker 8: Yeah.

358
00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:25,720
Speaker 5: It'd be like your rifle range right where you get

359
00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:28,880
Speaker 5: a nice group and then there's one that flies off

360
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,080
Speaker 5: to the side. Yeah, and you just kind of that's

361
00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:31,640
Speaker 5: an outlier.

362
00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:37,000
Speaker 10: Yeah, when you're shooting and you go home after a

363
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,840
Speaker 10: good shot, I go down there shoot again because I

364
00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:41,399
Speaker 10: might have one of them strays, and then I have

365
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:42,400
Speaker 10: to go home feeling worse.

366
00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:43,480
Speaker 3: You could also just.

367
00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:47,600
Speaker 4: Get really into uh general tag hunting. You have your

368
00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:49,560
Speaker 4: your draw best, then you have your general tag.

369
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:50,840
Speaker 3: That's a good way to look at it, Toude.

370
00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,480
Speaker 9: He's got time to draw all kinds of good tags.

371
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:55,560
Speaker 9: Sheep goat moves all that.

372
00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,320
Speaker 3: But you saw some other hunters. Yeah, you're hunting on

373
00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:01,119
Speaker 3: public land? Yes or no?

374
00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:02,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, hunting on public land.

375
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:04,000
Speaker 3: It's awesome other hunters.

376
00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:09,200
Speaker 8: Yeah, what was the elevation? I can remember?

377
00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:16,080
Speaker 7: Congratulations, man, where it's in my garage right now? You

378
00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:19,520
Speaker 7: can get stuffed the hides at the taxidermist.

379
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,000
Speaker 3: Right now, you getting stuff.

380
00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, we're gonna get a shoulder mountain where you gonna

381
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,240
Speaker 7: hang it? Uh, probably like the living room.

382
00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:27,760
Speaker 3: You got a place big enough for that.

383
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:30,640
Speaker 7: We talked about it. We have to move a mount

384
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:32,200
Speaker 7: a full body mountain goat for.

385
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:37,000
Speaker 3: It out of the way. Whose mountain goat is it

386
00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:37,760
Speaker 3: my dad's.

387
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:39,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm sure he doesn't take that personally.

388
00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:43,200
Speaker 3: If you don't, if you run out of room, you

389
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:44,439
Speaker 3: can hang it down here in the office.

390
00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:46,480
Speaker 7: I might have to do that.

391
00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:48,560
Speaker 3: Man, we'll put a little plaque up.

392
00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:50,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, nobody's gonna walk in the house and talk about

393
00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:54,760
Speaker 5: dad's goat anymore. Right, Well, what's that.

394
00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:56,040
Speaker 3: Who's paying to get it stuffed?

395
00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:57,240
Speaker 6: My parents?

396
00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,080
Speaker 3: That's nice though, That is who you're gonna have stuff it?

397
00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:00,640
Speaker 3: Do you know yet?

398
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,240
Speaker 7: Uh, that's a guy down in Belgrade.

399
00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:05,440
Speaker 6: It's uh Terry.

400
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:06,680
Speaker 3: Sure he does good work.

401
00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:11,440
Speaker 7: Yeah, he does a good job. Yeah, he's done my

402
00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,680
Speaker 7: dad's mountain goat, and uh he's done in my dad's

403
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:15,119
Speaker 7: mule deer.

404
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:17,800
Speaker 3: A lot of those guys are weird. Ohs man Taxdermist,

405
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:22,960
Speaker 3: I've even I even talked about that with tax Ermis.

406
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,600
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, he's like not me. But they're like a

407
00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,400
Speaker 3: lot of them. Yeah.

408
00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:35,920
Speaker 7: Yeah, he's a funny guy though, is Heny like good? Yeah,

409
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,360
Speaker 7: he's he's fun to talk humorous.

410
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, got it great. Well, thanks for coming in, man, Yeah,

411
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,880
Speaker 3: thanks for having me on. Congratulations. Thanks, that's pretty great.

412
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:49,639
Speaker 2: Yeah you can head out this year obviously, you turkey man. Yeah, okay,

413
00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:53,600
Speaker 2: you like to fish, Yeah, okay, let us know next

414
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:54,720
Speaker 2: time something good happens.

415
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,360
Speaker 5: To you, but it's shed hunting season, like that's that's

416
00:19:57,359 --> 00:19:58,119
Speaker 5: what these guys do.

417
00:19:58,160 --> 00:19:58,800
Speaker 3: If you're into that.

418
00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:00,760
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that wasn't thing when I was a kid.

419
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:03,240
Speaker 2: Pick you picked them up, but no one had a

420
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:07,520
Speaker 2: word for it. You just found an antler. No one

421
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:09,240
Speaker 2: like went anywhere to find an antler. Just if you

422
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,480
Speaker 2: found one, you brought it home. Everyone was a shad lunder.

423
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:14,920
Speaker 2: They just didn't know it. Yeah, there's no term for it,

424
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,840
Speaker 2: you know. No, I didn't kind of like parkour.

425
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,439
Speaker 4: You know, people used to just jump off trash cans

426
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:23,720
Speaker 4: and stuff like that.

427
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,159
Speaker 3: They didn't know what it was.

428
00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:31,760
Speaker 2: All right, Well, next time you get have something good

429
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:33,920
Speaker 2: or if something real bad happens, you come check us out.

430
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:36,080
Speaker 3: I want to hear it. Next year. I want you

431
00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:37,840
Speaker 3: to come down and talk about getting your ass kicked

432
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:38,399
Speaker 3: at something.

433
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:39,520
Speaker 6: Oh, I probably will.

434
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:43,720
Speaker 7: I'm gonna try archery hunting this year.

435
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:46,600
Speaker 3: Come tell us about missing one or hitting one in

436
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,399
Speaker 3: the leg and can't find it yard shots.

437
00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,960
Speaker 6: For that, I'll probably miss high on one.

438
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:56,560
Speaker 2: Yeah it was eighty three yards A buddy, thanks, you

439
00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:57,240
Speaker 2: can stick around.

440
00:20:57,359 --> 00:20:58,639
Speaker 6: I'll stick stick around you.

441
00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,040
Speaker 3: Where are you supposed to be in school? SI? Obviously? Yeah?

442
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 3: Well gradient jor okay, but you got excused.

443
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:06,520
Speaker 7: No, I'm just playing.

444
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,439
Speaker 8: What's sick the dentist?

445
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:11,520
Speaker 6: Yeah, buzzman high?

446
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:14,919
Speaker 3: Where's that at? That's what my kid's going to.

447
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,760
Speaker 7: It's the that's the old one it is.

448
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,119
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it'll be done. Yes, yere. He'll like all

449
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,879
Speaker 3: that stuff about yardages and calibers. That's there. That's like

450
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 3: his peer group as they're interested in.

451
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:30,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like Johnny shot a elk at six and

452
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:36,520
Speaker 2: twenty yards with a I'm like, where were they?

453
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:38,479
Speaker 3: Was it a big bull? I don't know.

454
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:45,199
Speaker 2: Everything is calibers and distances. Uh, all right, Yanni, you're

455
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:45,920
Speaker 2: gonna tell something.

456
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,320
Speaker 11: Yeah, you're gonna share it. Are a cotell his story?

457
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 11: You're there, chip In.

458
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:54,720
Speaker 5: I had a lot of people that I just just

459
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 5: got back from pheasant Fest, a lot of people asking

460
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:58,359
Speaker 5: about how Mingus is doing.

461
00:21:58,800 --> 00:21:59,560
Speaker 8: Yeah, I don't know where.

462
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,879
Speaker 11: We must have talked about it somewhere else or someone

463
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:03,680
Speaker 11: did because word got out.

464
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:07,000
Speaker 5: He got mentioned, It was mentioned briefly on Trivia, and

465
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 5: we kind of danced around it on the last Meet episode.

466
00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 2: Oh hey, let me tell you something that Pat said first,

467
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 2: Pat Diurkin. Pat Dirkin wrote in Hi, Stephen Crinn, I

468
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,639
Speaker 2: enjoyed the Meat Eater podcast with CJ Box, especially the

469
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 2: shots at copy editors, probably because I am one. He

470
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,240
Speaker 2: goes on, I'm sure you know Samuel Clemens. That's Mark

471
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 2: Twain to you.

472
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:36,000
Speaker 3: Uh, not ill literate, not literary folks.

473
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:41,119
Speaker 2: I'm sure you know Mark Twain didn't like editors either. Oh,

474
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:43,880
Speaker 2: I see what he's doing here. He uses Samuel Clemens

475
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:49,920
Speaker 2: and then uses Mark Twain. I keep this Mark Twain

476
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 2: quote taped above my desk. It's from a nineteen to

477
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 2: six letter to Henry mills Alden and was printed in

478
00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:02,400
Speaker 2: the Chicago Daily Tribune. Twain and says, how often we

479
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:07,399
Speaker 2: recall with regret that Napoleon once shot at a magazine

480
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:12,399
Speaker 2: editor and missed him and killed a publisher. But we

481
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:17,239
Speaker 2: remember with clarity. No, but we remember with charity that

482
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:24,159
Speaker 2: his intentions were good and he says, also, don't bury

483
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,400
Speaker 2: outdoor newspaper columnists yet, please wait till I die. I'm

484
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:32,879
Speaker 2: still cranking out my weekly column for eight Wisconsin newspapers.

485
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,200
Speaker 2: I started the column in nineteen eighty four while at

486
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:41,479
Speaker 2: the Oshkosh Daily Northwestern and haven't missed a week since.

487
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 2: I also posted on my website for the Freeloaders Last

488
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 2: of a Dying Breed that we were.

489
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 3: Talking about, like like when you you're a kid, I'd

490
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 3: like the dude at the Skiing Chronicle. I wish I can

491
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:54,159
Speaker 3: remember his name, Bob's.

492
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,120
Speaker 9: Every Sunday you're excited to open the pap.

493
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 2: He'd profile attacks at Ermist. He'd be like, they're getting

494
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 2: big perch yep, you know, off of the late Michigan Pier.

495
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 2: The next week it'd be here's a great venison meat

496
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 2: low for Resbee. Just every Saturday, man. And that was

497
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 2: like the only outdoor media we took in ye was

498
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 2: that dude's column.

499
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 5: Well, I wonder if even there is an outdoor section.

500
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 11: I've gotten a newspaper and so long, but I remember,

501
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 11: like the Gazette Kalamazoo Gazette had an outdoor section on Saturday, Yeah.

502
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 3: Which is weird because Saturday is the day you're hunting

503
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 3: and fishing.

504
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,120
Speaker 9: A lot of papers have gotten rid of them billings.

505
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 3: I think still has one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I talked

506
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,439
Speaker 3: to an outdoor guy at one of the papers and

507
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,160
Speaker 3: he was not happy about digital media. I can tell you,

508
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:37,919
Speaker 3: all right, go.

509
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 11: Ahead a couple Actually, I think it's three weeks ago now.

510
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 11: Steve and I took our kids on a little snowmobiling

511
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 11: cat hunting adventure and not long into our morning, really,

512
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 11: probably less than an hour into our snowbiling adventure, you

513
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 11: cut a fresh boxcat track. We had incredibly fresh snow, yeah,

514
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,239
Speaker 11: real fresh, real fresh snow, like it had probably only

515
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 11: quit snowing right at daylight or maybe even after. And

516
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 11: so any you know track that we're gonna cut was

517
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 11: gonna be pretty fresh. And this sucker, I mean it

518
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 11: might have been filled in a little bit crossing the road,

519
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:17,119
Speaker 11: but as soon as it went under any kind of

520
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 11: a tree you could see it was. It was crisp

521
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 11: and clean. And so we cut mingus loose on it.

522
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 11: And uh, Steve and I've been trying to do this

523
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 11: for a couple of years now.

524
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, we go seven seven people and one dog.

525
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, go hu with mingus and uh it's a uh.

526
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 3: Is that right? Seven people? Yeah, me and my three

527
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 3: I had all three my kids.

528
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:43,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, I too. Yeah.

529
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 11: There's a lot to think about when you're gonna put

530
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 11: together that kind of a an adventure, because, uh, it's

531
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 11: not just like you and me going looking for a

532
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:57,439
Speaker 11: line track. Uh, there's you know, five people that are

533
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,199
Speaker 11: depending on us, and you know, you bring in us

534
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,119
Speaker 11: in its form and extra clothes because they're gonna you know,

535
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 11: the first thing we do when they when you stop

536
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 11: snowbills and are looking at a fresh track, they're like, yeah,

537
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 11: that's interesting. And then they just start like doing parkour

538
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 11: off the edge of the Forest service road into the

539
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 11: snow and they're.

540
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, everybody's like this. It's like no ship.

541
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 5: All the snowmobile and goggles are just packed full of snow.

542
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 5: Wordless at this point.

543
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 3: Whitewashing each other whatever. Man, It's like.

544
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 11: This comes this is part of the story because that

545
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 11: morning I had looked at the pack. I had been

546
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 11: using a pack that Paul had made for me. It's

547
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 11: kind of a just a day hunting pack. It's not

548
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,679
Speaker 11: really meant to pack meat. And uh, I thought, you know,

549
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 11: with all these kids and nowhere we were going, there's

550
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 11: not a lot of roads. We might end up on

551
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 11: a long walk and I'll be carrying all kinds of gear, water, food, whatever.

552
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 5: So I should go to a bigger pack.

553
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 11: And so I swapped out and just grabbed my like

554
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 11: a exo pack that has more of a frame to it,

555
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 11: you know. Anyways, we cut Mangus loose on the track

556
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 11: and he's what I would call smoking it, moving it

557
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 11: very quickly. He makes it, you know, six hundred yards

558
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 11: is the crow flies from us? And I don't know,

559
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 11: ten minutes maybe not that.

560
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 3: We gotta make the noise. What's that little the noises

561
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 3: he's making?

562
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 5: Oh, when Mingus is on track?

563
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 3: Well, I kept saying, what's that noise mean? What's that

564
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 3: noise mean? And he's like he likes it, he doesn't

565
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 3: love it.

566
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 12: He hasn't seen it.

567
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,400
Speaker 3: Right, like that kind of stuff.

568
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a steady ball it. Mingus.

569
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 11: His bark is very hard to replicate because he kind

570
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:45,959
Speaker 11: of balls. And then at the end of it his

571
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 11: voice almost cracks and breaks and it almost sounds like

572
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 11: you're taking, uh, like newspaper on a window if you're

573
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 11: watching it, and it's like that, oh right at the end,

574
00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:58,360
Speaker 11: it's a funny sound.

575
00:27:58,359 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 5: I don't know.

576
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 2: He was explaining to me the noise if it sees it,

577
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:06,439
Speaker 2: then it's a different noise. Well, once he sees it

578
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 2: in the tree, it's different.

579
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,400
Speaker 11: Well, yeah, he'd go into three long like locate balls,

580
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 11: which are very deep, very low, and then he would

581
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:22,360
Speaker 11: just go into a constant chop. So anyways, he's crossed.

582
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,880
Speaker 11: We're on one side of a drainage and he's crossed

583
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 11: the drainage across the creek and he's gotten up on

584
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 11: a I guess that's hill would be south facing right,

585
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 11: it's way more open, there's not as many trees, and

586
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 11: it looks steep to me.

587
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,360
Speaker 5: There's some cliffs over there.

588
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 3: It's like it's a band of cliffs. It's like, no,

589
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 3: it's like you go down.

590
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 2: We're on a timbered slope and you go down, you

591
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 2: got a big screen field and then like all the

592
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 2: cliff faces that all the screen had been breaking up.

593
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 3: Sure, but he obviously went you see, I slip a

594
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 3: little jelagy in there.

595
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 11: But he's the whole thing wasn't a cliff face because

596
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 11: he was able to get a bullet cliffs bands. Yeah,

597
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 11: he was able to pretty easily work through the trees

598
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 11: that the bobcat had taken. And bobcats are known for

599
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 11: evading dogs, like while the chase is actually going on, right,

600
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 11: a lion really doesn't have that option because it doesn't

601
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 11: have the stamina to stay out ahead of dogs. It's

602
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 11: a very short chase, usually a couple hundred yards, and

603
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 11: the lion gives up because it's just it's lungs are

604
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 11: burning and it has to, you know, go up a tree.

605
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 3: Can I tell you the thing that you told me?

606
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 3: While we were doing this, h.

607
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 2: He went down into a creek bottom where he could

608
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 2: picture like a cat running. But then all of a

609
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 2: sudden he left the creek bottom and went up and

610
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 2: we were thought, oh me, he might already know because

611
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 2: the track was so fresh, he might already know there's

612
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 2: a dog after him. And Yanni was talking to a

613
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 2: houndsman who was saying.

614
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:55,719
Speaker 3: He's seen cats eluding dogs and actually stop get out

615
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 3: on a cliff and be sitting there licking their paws,

616
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 3: just look looking down or they know the because they

617
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 3: when you think about they probably deal with this all

618
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 3: the time, like they're on a kill and some coyotes

619
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 3: come like, oh brother, climb up a tree right around

620
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 3: here in some areas, be like there's wolves to deal with,

621
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 3: so just get like, oh yeah, on a climba tree

622
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 3: and hang out.

623
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 2: That's part of that wing leaves me alone and then

624
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 2: I'll go about my business. It's probably like a somewhat

625
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 2: casual occurrence to elude a can to get out of

626
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 2: a canine's way.

627
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 11: Sure, it's part of daily life, you know. But yeah,

628
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 11: I've somehow it's been saying that they think that when

629
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 11: they've glassed those cats sitting there, it almost looks like

630
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 11: they're having fun. Which that's a little too too much anthropomorhization, I.

631
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 5: Think, to the to the situation.

632
00:30:46,600 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 11: But anyways, uh, yeah, we were. You had just mentioned

633
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 11: about how it's like looking pretty cliffy, like too cliffy,

634
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 11: and I'm like, yeah, buddy, he's hunting that kind of

635
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 11: stuff all the time, you know. And I was just like,

636
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 11: I wasn't worried until you said something. And if you're

637
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 11: watching the GPS, especially when they're on these Bobcat tracks,

638
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 11: it's just squiggly lions, squigily lined, squiggily lines, and so

639
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 11: he's in this cops of evergreens. We can't He's only

640
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 11: six hundred yards away, but we can't see him. There's

641
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 11: fresh snow. Mingus is pretty much a black and white

642
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 11: dog and he blends in very well on snow, and

643
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 11: so we're trying to find it, but we can't. And

644
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 11: I'm just watching the GPS and squiggily lions, squiggly lions.

645
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 11: And then you said he went quiet, and You're like, well,

646
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 11: what is he doing now, you know? And I'm like,

647
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 11: he must have lost it, you know, and he's just

648
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 11: like really having to focus, and he doesn't have that

649
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 11: fresh scent in his nose and that's why he's not balling.

650
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 11: And like the pause went on long enough to when

651
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 11: I'm like, oh, I better look at the GPS again

652
00:31:58,680 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 11: and see what is going on.

653
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 5: Now.

654
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 11: Look at the GPS. And he had made a short

655
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 11: run out of that cops of trees to the lookers

656
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 11: left and gotten above those cliffs. And then there's a

657
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 11: straight line from the top of those cliffs to the

658
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 11: bottom of those cliffs. And then the GPS has shown treed.

659
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 11: So when you have your garment set on a hat

660
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 11: for a hound dog. When they stop moving, it'll basically

661
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 11: give you a treed signal, so that if you're out

662
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 11: of earshot, you know your hounds stopped moving. He's on

663
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 11: a chase, He's probably at the tree with the cat. Well,

664
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 11: in this case, we knew he wasn't at a tree

665
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 11: with a cat. He was simply not moving and he

666
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 11: wasn't barking anymore after being on a super hot track,

667
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:44,959
Speaker 11: and so we immediately knew something was up.

668
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it was without a doubt that.

669
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 5: He had taken a fall.

670
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so I figured, well, you know, he's like

671
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 2: stone dead at the bottom of a cliff.

672
00:32:56,080 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, which, yeah, I thought that was going to

673
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 5: be the same deal.

674
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 2: I'm reel bad. I felt bad for you, but mainly

675
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 2: was like, man, Yan, these daughters love that dog so much.

676
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 2: This is just gonna this is just gonna be horrible.

677
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, like a horrible day.

678
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 11: And we should touch on that later to you know,

679
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 11: at the end of the story, because I still go

680
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 11: back and forth. I've been calling Monster already at my

681
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 11: house because I've brought up this, uh, this idea of

682
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 11: like the different ways that it could have turned out.

683
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 5: You know, and.

684
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 11: Some like fifty years ago, or maybe not even that long,

685
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 11: twenty thirty years ago, this veterinary care that we have

686
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 11: so available to us wasn't And if you had a

687
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 11: situation like that, you'd be like, well, that's a bummer,

688
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 11: and you would just have to like, what.

689
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 3: Do you walk over there?

690
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 5: Well, no, you'd walk over there, right, but to get

691
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 5: your collar back.

692
00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 3: But girls, I'll be back with the you know what

693
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 3: I mean.

694
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 11: And it's like, yeah, obviously in my head, I'm thinking, like,

695
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 11: how is this all going to go down with the kids?

696
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 5: How are they going to deal with it?

697
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 11: And part of me thinks that I don't want to

698
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 11: say it'd be better, but it certainly wouldn't hurt them

699
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 11: in life to have gone through the other the other

700
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 11: outcome that could have been from that day, oh you know, to.

701
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,760
Speaker 3: Go, they wouldn't have had different lives.

702
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:28,280
Speaker 5: No, not losing, but in the moment, it sure feels

703
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 5: like that the pressure you're feeling. So I empty out

704
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 5: that backpack that I was just talking about earlier, take out.

705
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 5: It's funny because I was packing, you took your pistol

706
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 5: out a.

707
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 11: Ten millimeter on my hip and and I had a

708
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 11: twenty two mag in the backpack in case we found

709
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 11: a cat that we wanted to shoot ten millimeters for

710
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 11: in case things get western. And I purposely took them

711
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 11: both out because I thought, if we go over there

712
00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,800
Speaker 11: and that dog has to be put down, I can't

713
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 11: do it with an earshot of those girls because if

714
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 11: they hear me shoot that dog, then they'll never forgive me,

715
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 11: you know. So I left both things there. I don't

716
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 11: know what we're gonna do.

717
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 2: Way down, I said, you got your pistol, right, yeah,

718
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 2: and you're like no. I didn't want them to hear

719
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 2: a shoot.

720
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

721
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 5: We would have had to let his blood out with

722
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 5: a knife or something.

723
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 8: And we told the kids are making this so much worse.

724
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 3: Well, that's the stay put.

725
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 2: So it's all five. We're gonna stay put. We're gonna

726
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 2: go down and cross the camp.

727
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:38,439
Speaker 5: Did you guys let that?

728
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 9: Were the kids aware that something was he said the

729
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 9: dog might be hurt, okay.

730
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 11: Yeah, but they they were having fun. Like like I said,

731
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:50,919
Speaker 11: we had just we had we had moved the snowmobiles

732
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,839
Speaker 11: closer to where he had where he was, they were

733
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 11: having fun. This is before we realized he got hurt.

734
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,240
Speaker 11: They were having fun, throwing snow, chasing each other around,

735
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 11: and so we're like mingus, you know, is might need

736
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 11: a little hand. We're gonna go check in on him.

737
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 11: You guys just hang out, build a fire, eat some snacks.

738
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 11: They weren't really aware at all of that. We we

739
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 11: didn't certainly didn't show him the GPS track. So Steve

740
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,720
Speaker 11: and I bailed down off this four service road and uh,

741
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 11: what do you think? We dropped thousand feet maybe not

742
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:22,800
Speaker 11: quite to the creek bottom.

743
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,879
Speaker 5: I can tell you exact deep deep snow.

744
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 11: A lot of fallen trees, and I felt like we

745
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 11: were just hopping a lot of trees, which on the

746
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 11: way down wasn't wasn't too bad across the creek and uh,

747
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 11: you know, base are able to walk right to him,

748
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 11: and Steve actually spotted him first.

749
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:43,879
Speaker 2: And something had been wanting to ask you about. I'm

750
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 2: trying to I'm looking the spot, I said. I was

751
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 2: out a little bit in front of you, and I said,

752
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 2: his head's up. And you look I couldn't tell if

753
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 2: you were relieved or upset this head was up. You

754
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 2: looked like you were upset that his head was up.

755
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 11: No, I mean, honestly, I couldn't tell you if what

756
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 11: kind of at that point, what kind of emotions I

757
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 11: was feeling. I was just feeling really guilty for letting

758
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:12,280
Speaker 11: him get into that position.

759
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 5: You know, understood heavy responsibility situation too, right, Like, yeah,

760
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 5: he got a lot going on, yep, So it was

761
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 5: good to see him with his head with his head up.

762
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 5: We knew he's alive.

763
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 11: But we get to him and he's kind of he

764
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 11: likes to sit in what we call a lot of

765
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,439
Speaker 11: dogs sitting in that kind of sphinx position. He does

766
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 11: it extremely well and looks very handsome when he does it.

767
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,799
Speaker 11: Sometimes he crosses his front paws. But he's in that

768
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 11: position on a scree slope facing uphill, and he can

769
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 11: obviously hear us coming, but he's not looking over his shoulder,

770
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 11: you know, He's like just looking one way. And we

771
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,760
Speaker 11: get up there to him and kind of start poking

772
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 11: and prodding, and like he's not reacting to anything we do.

773
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,239
Speaker 11: Like he can pull his legs out and he's they're

774
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 11: just kind of loose and floppy and you know.

775
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 3: Little holes all over him.

776
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,800
Speaker 11: He's not look yeah, lacerations just covering his body and

777
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,280
Speaker 11: he's not like you know, you can put your whatever

778
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 11: you could kind of yell at him, and he wasn't

779
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 11: reacting to the.

780
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 3: Big old blood trail coming down the hill.

781
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 5: Yeah.

782
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 11: Like he landed probably fifty yards above that, and it

783
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 11: looked as though if you had shot a deer up

784
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,280
Speaker 11: there and then they had rolled down in the blood.

785
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 3: You know.

786
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 11: It was kind of that scene. I'd hiked up there

787
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 11: real quick just to see kind of get an idea

788
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,320
Speaker 11: of what he had gone through and where he landed.

789
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 11: We probably had what four to six inches maybe afresh,

790
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 11: but not nothing underneath it. Very poor snow conditions in

791
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 11: general for the winter around here. But when he landed,

792
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,479
Speaker 11: you know, the impact had shot snow probably six feet

793
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:49,720
Speaker 11: out of the direction.

794
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 5: It was a big bomb.

795
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 11: You see it from way off, Yeah, and it's like

796
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 11: between two cliff faces. There was a little bit of

797
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 11: a shoot and I thought, well, maybe he could have

798
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 11: come down through that, but there was no disturbed snow,

799
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 11: so obviously he came off one of the cliff faces.

800
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 11: I'd like to go back and actually hit it with

801
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,359
Speaker 11: the rangefinder to know, but I just remember looking up

802
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 11: there and just for to have some sort of comparison

803
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 11: or contact. I thought, I've never jumped off anything that

804
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,360
Speaker 11: high on skis, and like, I'd probably be too scared

805
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 11: to jump off of that on skis, even on the

806
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:28,280
Speaker 11: you know, deepest powder day. So you ski a lot,

807
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 11: you know, you've probably jumped off some stuff. But to

808
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 11: right Connor, you're dead experience stuff.

809
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,839
Speaker 5: Your your dead animal experience there too, right of, Like

810
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 5: seeing that tumble down in the snow means something to

811
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,840
Speaker 5: us that if you don't have the prior experience of

812
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 5: recovering game, this doesn't doesn't mean as much, right So you're, yeah,

813
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 5: you're you're adding up all your your data points right

814
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 5: now and trying to come up with the proper conclusion.

815
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 11: Yeah, so we'll have Yeah, we'll never know how he

816
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 11: came off the cliff. My best guess is that where

817
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 11: he went up, the grade of the hill was enough

818
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 11: that he had good footing, and then I think that

819
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 11: as he wrapped the hill going left, the grade just

820
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:21,720
Speaker 11: it just increased to the point where it got really steep,

821
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 11: and the cat kept going and the snow got slick,

822
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 11: and eventually he just lost footing and couldn't, you know,

823
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,760
Speaker 11: couldn't turn around and just went careening off a forty

824
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 11: footer is what I guessed it at.

825
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 2: He too, if you put your I put my ear

826
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 2: against his chest and it was like right, And I thought,

827
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 2: because I don't know what I'm doing, I thought it

828
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 2: was later found out what it was, but I thought blood.

829
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 5: In his chest because I.

830
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 2: Don't know, you know, it's like a real gurgly noise,

831
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:52,919
Speaker 2: but it why not be in a totally He'll tell you, Rihani,

832
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 2: He'll tell you what It was a totally different issue

833
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 2: now which I had never heard of.

834
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 11: Oh yeah, I've learned a lot of words through this

835
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:04,880
Speaker 11: experience that I had never heard of before. But uh yeah,

836
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 11: so we think we just decide, well, we're gonna pack

837
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 11: him up. Luckily, I had that frame pack that's meant

838
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 11: to pack me, and so I stuck him in there

839
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 11: just like an out quarter between the pack and.

840
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 3: The frame, eighty three pounds.

841
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 5: And uh zip zipped him up and were strapped him down.

842
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 5: Did he tuck his legs in? Yeah he was. He

843
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 5: was dangling. Yeah, he was sitting inside. He was sitting

844
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 5: ninety degrees to my back.

845
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,839
Speaker 2: And I thought, I was like, if he's you know,

846
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 2: I didn't think it's gonna make I don't think the

847
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 2: dog is gonna be live, and I'm like, especially it's

848
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 2: not gonna be live now. We even talked about what

849
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 2: are you gonna do? Though, It's like, there's nothing you

850
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 2: can do. No, there's no way to We're on a

851
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 2: screen slide, like, there's no way to do anything. You know,

852
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 2: You're not gonna call a helicopter. It's like you have

853
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 2: to just you couldn't. A sled would have been no good.

854
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 2: There's nothing you can do.

855
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 5: And honestly, even having more people wouldn't really know.

856
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 3: It was like, nothing you can do.

857
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 2: You can't tag, you can't tag team in lead wouldn't

858
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:04,839
Speaker 2: do you any good. You can't go up, there's nothing

859
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 2: to do. But I was like, because it was breathing bad,

860
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:11,879
Speaker 2: you know, you're like keep your ways open and slumping in.

861
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 3: The back of a backpack and a run for it.

862
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:19,879
Speaker 5: The human response, right, would be like, you provide stability

863
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:25,720
Speaker 5: for this victim so the movement doesn't cause more trauma,

864
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:29,399
Speaker 5: exactly right, or exacerbate whatever internal injuries you can't see,

865
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,400
Speaker 5: which is just not an option in this scenario. Because

866
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 5: it's a ticking clock.

867
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 2: And that dog was cold too. Oh that's the other

868
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 2: thing I thought about waiting. He's already all wet and shivering.

869
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 11: Yeah, and he got a lot colder throughout the day

870
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 11: because it took a while. So, uh, I decide to

871
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 11: instead of going back up the way we came, which

872
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:49,839
Speaker 11: in retrospect, I s time to decide if that would

873
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 11: have been faster or not.

874
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:51,319
Speaker 5: What do you think?

875
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:53,800
Speaker 11: It took me a long time to go out of

876
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,839
Speaker 11: the creek. It was like an It was like a

877
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 11: mile and a quarter mile and a half. As the

878
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 11: crow flew, I figured it might have been two miles

879
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:04,359
Speaker 11: the route we took to get out of the creek.

880
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:06,320
Speaker 2: It would have been better to go with me because

881
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,360
Speaker 2: we had all the time in the world waiting on me.

882
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 3: The kids made a second fire and you yeah.

883
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, but you didn't have to climb that hill with

884
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 5: eighty five pounds on your back.

885
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 3: No, but I still think would have been quicker.

886
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:19,840
Speaker 5: All right. Well, so, but I made this the decision

887
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 5: which I often say, don't do if you already know

888
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 5: one route. And it was.

889
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 11: The thing was is all those logs. I didn't feel

890
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 11: like climbing over all those logs on the way back

891
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 11: up where the full pack was gonna be fun. Anyways,

892
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:32,839
Speaker 11: it takes me two hours to pack him out. We

893
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 11: meet up with the crew. Lowed him back into the

894
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:36,359
Speaker 11: dog when he comes.

895
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 3: When he comes finally busting out of the brush, the

896
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 3: dog's not in the backpack anymore.

897
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 5: That's right.

898
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 3: He was carrying that dog like like on the front

899
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 3: of a romance novel.

900
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:48,959
Speaker 5: Well right at the right.

901
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:53,840
Speaker 11: Like seconds before that, he had just started legs and

902
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:57,320
Speaker 11: stuff started slipping out of the pack, and he was

903
00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 11: getting a little floppy on me. And so I had

904
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 11: him on the ground and I'm like, I can I

905
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 11: know where you guys are, just you know, two hundred

906
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:06,840
Speaker 11: yards away. I'm like, at this point, god, oh, just

907
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,760
Speaker 11: you know. He man it, which was probably a bad idea.

908
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 2: Oh dude, I couldn't believe it. When I want to

909
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 2: take him out of your hands, I couldn't get him.

910
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 2: I couldn't hold him.

911
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 3: Standing there barely. So it was a hard, awkward package.

912
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 3: That's a big, heavy dog.

913
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 5: Was he making any noise over the course of he.

914
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 3: Looked somehow better, like a little more with it.

915
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 11: Maybe, I don't know, maybe the concussion was wearing off.

916
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 11: I'm guessing that could have been. He was the whole

917
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 11: time I could hear him breathing. It was very shallow breathing,

918
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 11: but just this, you know, but just shallow breathing. I

919
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:42,359
Speaker 11: at least I could hear him breathing, which was good.

920
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 2: I told my older boy, I said, I took him aside,

921
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 2: and I said, I don't think that Mingus is gonna

922
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 2: come out alive out of the woods. And I can

923
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 2: hear my daughter like she's like acting like she's a

924
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 2: vet and somehow she got and she's telling Yanni's.

925
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:58,359
Speaker 3: Daughters that if it's got a broken leg, they're gonna

926
00:44:58,360 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 3: have to.

927
00:44:58,560 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 8: Put it down.

928
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,320
Speaker 2: I was like, Jimmy tells me this, I should say

929
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,240
Speaker 2: I didn't hear her say it. Jimmy said, he's she's

930
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 2: tattle tailing. That Rosemary is really upsetting Iron and Mabel

931
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 2: with her like armchair vet talk.

932
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 5: Which in this particular instance, you're.

933
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 8: Like, well, how old are they?

934
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 3: Well, Rosemary's eleven.

935
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, Iron and Maybe are ten and twelve.

936
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 3: And my older boys thirteen and my younger boys nine.

937
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:32,319
Speaker 11: Well, there's vet shows all over the internet and uh

938
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 11: television these days that the kids watch.

939
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:35,400
Speaker 5: And I think she's.

940
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 2: Missing horses because I told him to fix the horses.

941
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 2: She's mixing that it could be anyhow a lot of

942
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 2: like coaching.

943
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 11: Yeah, the only time he made any noises one time

944
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 11: I had like slipped down a little bit of a

945
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 11: bank and UH kind of caught myself, caught my own weight,

946
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:53,800
Speaker 11: and that caused him to, you know, shift pretty heavily

947
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 11: to one side, and he made like a little moany

948
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 11: grown kind of a sound.

949
00:45:57,560 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 5: But other than that, he was good. So are you

950
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:00,879
Speaker 5: talking to your the whole way out?

951
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 11: Oh yeah, yeah, just apologizing pretty much, you know, shedding

952
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 11: some tears.

953
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:06,760
Speaker 5: It was sad.

954
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:08,840
Speaker 3: It was terrible. It's terrible.

955
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 11: Every now and then, for whatever reason, he would like

956
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 11: rotate ninety degrees and then get a paw on each

957
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 11: one of my shoulders.

958
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 5: I kind of like even put his chin on my

959
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 5: one shoulder and like, oh my gosh, kill me.

960
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 11: Yeah yeah, but then he'd like he'd go the other

961
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 11: way and he'd almost like his head would like get

962
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 11: too far back and kind of get floppy.

963
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,399
Speaker 5: I'd have to look to make sure he's still with.

964
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 3: Me, you know. Oh man, I felt terrible for you

965
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 3: guys that.

966
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 11: Day, But yeah, we can get a loaded up in

967
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:40,799
Speaker 11: it comes with me. Steve still had to go and

968
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:46,279
Speaker 11: UH had some unfinished business on that trail. And so

969
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:48,799
Speaker 11: just Iron and I took mingus in and there's only

970
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 11: one place to get emergency VET services uh here in

971
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 11: the Greater Bozeman area, So we.

972
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 5: Went there and.

973
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 11: Trying trying to make a little bit faster here, but

974
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 11: we spent a couple hours in there. As they're checking

975
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 11: him out, he's obviously he was very cold. They had

976
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 11: to bring his coretent back up. The shallow breathing. The

977
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 11: injury was called pneumo thorax, which basically is air inside

978
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 11: of you know, your chest that's between your chest lining

979
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,359
Speaker 11: and your lungs, and so when you have air in there,

980
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 11: it prevents the lungs from actually expanding and doing what.

981
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 5: They're supposed to do.

982
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 3: Hence the crazy noise.

983
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, and the super shallow breathing.

984
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 11: So they basically just stick like I don't know this

985
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 11: is exactly right, but it's like a syringe that's meant

986
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,439
Speaker 11: for pulling air out. So they just, yeah, they vent

987
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:45,800
Speaker 11: them and I think after they do it three or

988
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 11: four times, it actually just stick like a tube in

989
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:51,839
Speaker 11: there and just constantly keep pulling it. But it took him.

990
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 11: They said on the fourth time they would go to

991
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,320
Speaker 11: the tube. They only did it three times they pulled

992
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:58,800
Speaker 11: like two liters air out of there and that was

993
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:03,799
Speaker 11: kind of the end of that. All those lacerations he had,

994
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 11: I don't know, thirty forty some stitches and staples kind

995
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:10,800
Speaker 11: of all over. They shaved any part where there was

996
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 11: any trauma on that dog when he came home. When

997
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:19,840
Speaker 11: he came home, half of him was shaved, like his

998
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 11: rear end. Because yeah, you just start to you know,

999
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 11: because you're fixated on different things of what's going on

1000
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 11: with the dog, and so it takes a day or

1001
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 11: two you start paying close for attention. But he was

1002
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:35,359
Speaker 11: rear end was the whole thing was just purple for

1003
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:38,280
Speaker 11: a week, you know from the impact.

1004
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:42,360
Speaker 5: Did they give you the talk like before any of

1005
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 5: this happened where they're kind of like, here's your options

1006
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:47,879
Speaker 5: and how much are you willing to spend?

1007
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 11: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah that one for sure, Like

1008
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 11: you knew very quickly what it was going to take.

1009
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 11: And so I had to have that conversation with my gallant,

1010
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 11: and yeah, I feel like I owe a lot of

1011
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,319
Speaker 11: people and apology because I for sure have sort of

1012
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 11: poked fun in anybody that spent I always said, crist

1013
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 11: five K is my limit, and I was like, you

1014
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,360
Speaker 11: did what your dog got acy l surgery, you dumbass.

1015
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 2: You know that's that was one of the first things

1016
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:16,400
Speaker 2: I mentioned you after we knew the dog would be

1017
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 2: all right. I was like, if someone had taken you

1018
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 2: aside a month ago and said, how much would you

1019
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 2: put into that dog and vet care before you pull

1020
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 2: the plug and got a new one, and you'd be

1021
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 2: you know, you'd think about it four or five grand

1022
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:29,840
Speaker 2: I suppose, you know whatever. I don't know what the

1023
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 2: number would be, but you'd have some number. But then

1024
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 2: you get in the actual situation and there's like this

1025
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:38,240
Speaker 2: leads to that, and you got to bring it down

1026
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:42,479
Speaker 2: and then find out what's going on, and then there's

1027
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 2: all this emotional stuff and you're the daughters are involved,

1028
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 2: and you can just see how it runs away with

1029
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:52,759
Speaker 2: itself totally. You know. It's not like, you know, it's

1030
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 2: not like you get up there and someone says, okay,

1031
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:58,279
Speaker 2: now's your decision moment. You know, is this worth ten

1032
00:49:58,400 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 2: k or not worth ten k?

1033
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:04,919
Speaker 3: You know, but it's I don't know, may'll be dead.

1034
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 2: Maybe it's three hundred dollars, but I just you know,

1035
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 2: you can't you just go and then it's snowballs and

1036
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:13,360
Speaker 2: then there you are the massive vethist.

1037
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:13,880
Speaker 5: Dude.

1038
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 11: They were pretty spot on with once they kind of

1039
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 11: had him stabilized and had and they knew what was

1040
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:24,239
Speaker 11: going on. So basically the only he had a mild concussion.

1041
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:26,319
Speaker 11: They gave him some drugs and he popped right out

1042
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 11: of that. He had the newmo thorax. They pumped that out.

1043
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 11: They gave him whatever, thirty forty stitches and staples all over.

1044
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:33,479
Speaker 5: Not a big deal.

1045
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:34,319
Speaker 7: Uh.

1046
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 11: The one broken bone from falling forty feet basically straight

1047
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:38,280
Speaker 11: to rock.

1048
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:39,800
Speaker 3: Was it the leg I thought was broken at the

1049
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:40,400
Speaker 3: lego though was.

1050
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:45,840
Speaker 11: One of his left rear legs has a fractured botella,

1051
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 11: so he broke his kneecap and uh but anyways, Yeah,

1052
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 11: so once they had him stabilized, they were able to

1053
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 11: call us and be like, this is what it's going

1054
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:56,480
Speaker 11: to cost.

1055
00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, by that point you already carried him all

1056
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 3: that way and all that is different.

1057
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 11: Oh yeah, and then you're like, okay, well, what's it

1058
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 11: going to cause? You canna just put him to sleep?

1059
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 11: And then I'm gonna either lie to my daughter so

1060
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 11: that he didn't make it through the night.

1061
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 3: I told the vet money is no objects.

1062
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:17,319
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1063
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 9: Yeah, but it's not like he would have like the

1064
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:25,359
Speaker 9: putt in the sleep thing. If they had just stopped care,

1065
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 9: he wouldn't have just like died on his own, you

1066
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:28,799
Speaker 9: know what I mean?

1067
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 8: No, Like, how could you.

1068
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 3: It's like they'd actively have to put him down. Yeah,

1069
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 3: isn't free you have a dog run around with broken

1070
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 3: I don't know, maybe no.

1071
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:43,760
Speaker 11: I asked about that and they said, basically, the leg

1072
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:47,319
Speaker 11: would just atrophyed and nothing, and then you end up

1073
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 11: having to amputat it and it wouldn't be a good deal.

1074
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:52,360
Speaker 3: And I told you my theory about three le dogs.

1075
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:55,239
Speaker 11: Oh listen, I was ready to go there. I need

1076
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:56,840
Speaker 11: to check up on this because they told me that

1077
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,799
Speaker 11: was pretty much gonna be the same price to go

1078
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:03,319
Speaker 11: to a three legged dog to what we we we

1079
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:03,799
Speaker 11: paid for.

1080
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 2: And I was like, that's a bargain because people like

1081
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:07,280
Speaker 2: them three legged dogs.

1082
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 8: Man.

1083
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:10,719
Speaker 5: Look, I would have had no problem running a three

1084
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 5: legged hound. I know a couple of the film.

1085
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:17,400
Speaker 2: About you if you started, if you started catching lines

1086
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:19,279
Speaker 2: with a three legged dog, they had made a hole

1087
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 2: of the Eddy movie. It'd be like the sad part

1088
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:25,720
Speaker 2: with the sad music and yeah, like if.

1089
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 5: You took them both off and we got one of

1090
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:30,600
Speaker 5: those wheelie cards. How much that that off road mountain

1091
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 5: bike tires on the back before we get take before

1092
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 5: we leave that the first night.

1093
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:42,799
Speaker 11: That everything's kind of set, these stabilized, we're like, all right,

1094
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:45,640
Speaker 11: we'll get a phone call from you later. And they're like, yeah,

1095
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:48,359
Speaker 11: surgery probably tomorrow, or go home and discuss with your

1096
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:50,759
Speaker 11: family on you know, if you guys want to pay,

1097
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 11: et cetera. But they're like, oh, you want to come

1098
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 11: back real quick and just say, you know, give him

1099
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 11: a kiss and say bye and check him out. I'm like, yeah, sure,

1100
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 11: that sounds like a great idea, you know what. I

1101
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:03,799
Speaker 11: wasn't thinking like goodbye as in forever, but just like go,

1102
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,839
Speaker 11: you know, give a pat on the back. And we

1103
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 11: walk in there and it's just him laying on this table.

1104
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 11: I mean, there's people kind of milling out and about girls.

1105
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 11: Just just sign him and we walk over there, and

1106
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,440
Speaker 11: when we're like maybe five feet from the table, you

1107
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:20,320
Speaker 11: kind of you're like, oh, you see the big blanket

1108
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 11: and he's got the little mask on, you know, helping him.

1109
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:26,920
Speaker 11: So he's like not looking great, shaved everywhere and you're

1110
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:28,879
Speaker 11: kind of like, you know, your heart sinks a little

1111
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 11: bit to see your buddy in such a bad steak

1112
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:33,160
Speaker 11: because he's not really like you don't even look up

1113
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 11: at you when you walk in there, and right is

1114
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 11: we're like getting to be a little bit closer where

1115
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:40,200
Speaker 11: we're gonna like put our hands on him. The machine

1116
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 11: next to him goes.

1117
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 13: And all of a sudden, there's a dude running over

1118
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 13: and he's like, don so, I need seven milligrams of this. No,

1119
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:51,759
Speaker 13: make a tent and prepare a backup, And all of

1120
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:54,440
Speaker 13: a sudden, it's like there's five people around him and

1121
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:56,239
Speaker 13: we're like pushed out, and I mean it's like an

1122
00:53:56,600 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 13: er scene, you know, like.

1123
00:53:57,440 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 3: You had little paddles.

1124
00:53:58,600 --> 00:53:59,759
Speaker 5: Clear, Yeah it was.

1125
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:02,400
Speaker 13: It was gonna be that suit. And it looks at

1126
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:04,640
Speaker 13: me like, what the F They just told us he

1127
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:05,720
Speaker 13: was stable.

1128
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:07,040
Speaker 8: You know, I'm like, yeah, I don't know.

1129
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 11: Well his uh he had had just like a little

1130
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 11: heart arrhythmia and uh and he got the same problem.

1131
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:16,919
Speaker 5: It was all yeah, his is gone away, I think.

1132
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:20,279
Speaker 11: But it was just cause from that impact and the

1133
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 11: trauma to the heart, you know, that's what caused that

1134
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:26,919
Speaker 11: pneumo thorax. Too, was just such impact that some part

1135
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 11: of the lung, whether it's like a burst of sack

1136
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 11: or an alveoli, but some end part of the lobe

1137
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:36,680
Speaker 11: just goes and like pops open and literally releases air

1138
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 11: into your chest. You can have internal which is neumo thorax,

1139
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:44,200
Speaker 11: which is what he had, or you can have external pneumothorax,

1140
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:46,880
Speaker 11: which is if your you know, rib cage actually got

1141
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:48,839
Speaker 11: punctured and air got in that way.

1142
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 3: You know, I'm learning about myself right now.

1143
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:53,839
Speaker 2: If you were telling me that about a person, I'd

1144
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 2: be having all these problems because it's a dog.

1145
00:54:57,400 --> 00:54:59,759
Speaker 3: I'm not having all these problems. Like if someone tells

1146
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:02,960
Speaker 3: me testicular cancer, my nuts start aching.

1147
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 8: But I hear.

1148
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 3: You can hear all this without having the pain.

1149
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 5: You feel like a pain or just like a strange sensation.

1150
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:13,240
Speaker 3: I feel like, man, I got that problem.

1151
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 9: It's like a sympathetic pregnancy.

1152
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 3: Steve Gatz, Yeah, yeah, I'm just noticing that for some reason,

1153
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 3: if you were explaining that in that kind of grand detail,

1154
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:28,320
Speaker 3: my lungs like, there's.

1155
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 11: So yeah, he's he They put a what's called the

1156
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 11: external fixater around his rear leg, which is basically this

1157
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 11: bracket that has pins that all go into different bones

1158
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:42,400
Speaker 11: that are holding things together. And now the external fixer

1159
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 11: actually has a piston looks just like the piston on

1160
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:51,360
Speaker 11: the hatch on your topper that holds your your window open.

1161
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 11: And then they adjust it and and give him more

1162
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:56,360
Speaker 11: range of motions.

1163
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:57,120
Speaker 3: When he's done with that.

1164
00:55:57,200 --> 00:55:59,200
Speaker 4: Can I have the piston because I've been using a

1165
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:02,200
Speaker 4: broom that my windshield for months now.

1166
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 5: You know, I think luckily they don't they take it

1167
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 5: back and so that saves you a little bit of money.

1168
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, so I won't own that piece of hardware.

1169
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 3: When when we're all done, you take a bid from them,

1170
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:16,799
Speaker 3: and yeah, just compare with my the the shop down there.

1171
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 8: You know, how did how did you? How did you

1172
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 8: carry him out on the snowmobile.

1173
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 11: We have a sled like a dog box that sits

1174
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 11: on a sled that's like a trailer behind the snowmobile.

1175
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:29,719
Speaker 5: So we just loaded him right into his box and.

1176
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:31,200
Speaker 3: He wrapped him up in his down jacket.

1177
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:33,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, try to make try to warm him up a

1178
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:33,960
Speaker 5: little bit.

1179
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:36,320
Speaker 3: So if anyone wants to send you on you a

1180
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:39,439
Speaker 3: bunch of money, that's what he'll do. It is he'll

1181
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:40,719
Speaker 3: turn around and give it to his VET.

1182
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:43,919
Speaker 11: Yeah, so it's a it's a it's a big it's

1183
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:44,720
Speaker 11: a big number.

1184
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 8: Uh.

1185
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:47,479
Speaker 3: Did you do you get a payment plan like he's

1186
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:48,800
Speaker 3: supposed to come up with that kind of money.

1187
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 11: Yeah, they actually have a uh there's like an emergency

1188
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:59,320
Speaker 11: VET credit that you can get for with super low uh,

1189
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:01,280
Speaker 11: with pretty low interest from.

1190
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:05,759
Speaker 5: Who it's it's that's what through the VET. Well, I

1191
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:07,239
Speaker 5: mean they advertised like a.

1192
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:10,279
Speaker 4: Third party financing option.

1193
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:12,480
Speaker 3: For that.

1194
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:14,759
Speaker 8: Yeah, he's right. It writes it up while you're there.

1195
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:17,560
Speaker 8: Let me go ask my manager.

1196
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:21,520
Speaker 4: It's a great it's a great business plan because you're

1197
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 4: just sitting around, like who should I lend money to?

1198
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 4: Who's gonna spend the money?

1199
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 3: No matter what. So the VET offers like financing or

1200
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:31,400
Speaker 3: it's a third party. It's a third party.

1201
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 4: It's like crit over, you know, like on Yeah, I

1202
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:36,919
Speaker 4: was looking at it the other day when I paid

1203
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:37,600
Speaker 4: a big VET bill.

1204
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:38,960
Speaker 3: I just wonder if I.

1205
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:41,000
Speaker 11: Could do it, Like now you got to make payments,

1206
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:44,000
Speaker 11: you know, I don't know, if we haven't figured out

1207
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:46,280
Speaker 11: exactly how we're gonna do it, we'll probably just take

1208
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 11: a you know, big chunk out of savings and just

1209
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:49,000
Speaker 11: knock it out.

1210
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 2: You know, man, better than that you dog every time

1211
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 2: you see him.

1212
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 11: Well, you know, it's funny because that dog is a

1213
00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:59,200
Speaker 11: you know, pound puppy, sheltered dog, whatever you want to

1214
00:57:59,240 --> 00:57:59,680
Speaker 11: call him.

1215
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:01,800
Speaker 3: Now you can just you bought him for a lot

1216
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:02,160
Speaker 3: of money.

1217
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 11: Yeah, yeah, he was like a hunt because pound dogs

1218
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 11: aren't free.

1219
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 5: They still make you pay for Yeah, it's like seventy five.

1220
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 3: You just really boosted his pedigree there.

1221
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, totally. I better get his papers.

1222
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 2: Now people ask Yannie how much he paid for that dog.

1223
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:21,120
Speaker 2: He had to start the story by going.

1224
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:23,440
Speaker 8: Well is it genuine racehorse?

1225
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 3: Now?

1226
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:28,320
Speaker 11: Just like so, yeah, he's fine. Now he's uh, he's

1227
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:30,640
Speaker 11: he's going. He's not going stir crazy you think he

1228
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:32,960
Speaker 11: would be. I mean he wants to go out, he can't.

1229
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 11: You can't just let him roam. He's basically got to

1230
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 11: be on a leash.

1231
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 3: It was a season ender.

1232
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, there's no no more cat hunting here.

1233
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:43,520
Speaker 2: And Yanni lost his appetite for cat hunting. He doesn't

1234
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 2: like doing it without his own dog, he said.

1235
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:48,000
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I mean he went, he went.

1236
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:49,959
Speaker 3: With someone else's dog. He said, it wasn't the same. Yeah,

1237
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:51,960
Speaker 3: it was still fun just not the same.

1238
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 8: Right, But he did jump off a cliff that's.

1239
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 5: In the game. So what I was amazed at this.

1240
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:00,080
Speaker 5: When we were chatting on on text, they said it

1241
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 5: was like ninety recovery, like to full phone recovery for

1242
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:09,680
Speaker 5: that back leg. Yeah yeah, right, yeah, yeah, great. So

1243
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 5: it won't be like new but I think, I mean,

1244
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:12,560
Speaker 5: he'll be able to hunt, no problem.

1245
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:13,960
Speaker 8: How old does he take?

1246
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:17,800
Speaker 5: Four him? He's got another at least, you know, four

1247
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:18,160
Speaker 5: to six.

1248
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:20,120
Speaker 3: I wouldn't think, I say, I'd get him right back

1249
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:23,400
Speaker 3: to that same spot. See if you learned anything.

1250
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:24,440
Speaker 5: Shock the ship out of him.

1251
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 4: No, no, no, cliff, yeah, there's nothing. Not a bad

1252
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:30,960
Speaker 4: idea to put him up on top of the cliff

1253
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:31,640
Speaker 4: and then shock him.

1254
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:33,800
Speaker 3: Now, you know, he'll find that he never goes left

1255
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:37,640
Speaker 3: ever again. Yeah, your dog that only goes right.

1256
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:40,720
Speaker 11: It'll be interesting to see if he does have any

1257
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 11: uh you know post you know trauma, you know from it?

1258
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:46,640
Speaker 3: Did he learn from it?

1259
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 5: I remember, as hard headed as that dog is, I

1260
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:52,400
Speaker 5: don't think so. I doubt it.

1261
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:54,200
Speaker 3: Thanks for sharing.

1262
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, thanks for being there and helping out. It would

1263
00:59:56,640 --> 01:00:00,120
Speaker 5: have been uh even tougher it had just been me

1264
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:01,120
Speaker 5: and my girls Yeah.

1265
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:03,000
Speaker 2: I don't want to say it was fun, but I'm

1266
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:04,440
Speaker 2: glad it worked out the way it did because, like

1267
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:06,080
Speaker 2: I said, I felt terrible for you guys.

1268
01:00:06,360 --> 01:00:08,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was uh, mostly felt terrible.

1269
01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 3: For your girls because that would have been a hard

1270
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:13,800
Speaker 3: little trip. Yeah.

1271
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:15,560
Speaker 8: Yeah. Oh.

1272
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:19,760
Speaker 11: The one other sort of silver lining out of this

1273
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:23,800
Speaker 11: is I wasn't even really bringing it up, but uh,

1274
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:26,280
Speaker 11: because I don't know if it was Jennifer that was

1275
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 11: like seeing like how bumna I was about how the

1276
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:31,960
Speaker 11: season ended for us, and how like it was, you know,

1277
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:35,160
Speaker 11: no more line hunting for me and mingus. You know,

1278
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:39,120
Speaker 11: it's we're done for till next year. But uh, she

1279
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:41,520
Speaker 11: pretty much is given the go ahead for number two,

1280
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:44,520
Speaker 11: So another one.

1281
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 2: It wouldn't be so bad. If I had a second dog,

1282
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:49,920
Speaker 2: I'd still be in the race.

1283
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:55,200
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, so yeah, get August.

1284
01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:58,000
Speaker 11: I think we'll have a puppy.

1285
01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:10,280
Speaker 3: That's awesome, man. Yeah, all right, Dan, you're ready to

1286
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:10,640
Speaker 3: dive in.

1287
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:14,000
Speaker 8: I've been doing this for the last five months.

1288
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:16,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's all you've been doing is diving. You you

1289
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:16,800
Speaker 3: already dove?

1290
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:18,920
Speaker 8: Yeah, I dove. I fell off a cliff that they

1291
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:19,280
Speaker 8: found me.

1292
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:25,120
Speaker 2: I was gurgling, Uh, layout who you lay out your

1293
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:28,120
Speaker 2: organization first, and then lay out uh, and then just

1294
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 2: kind of give the give the rundown of what When I.

1295
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 3: Said, what's going on in Colorado? What tell us what's

1296
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 3: up with Colorado? Well, first give a thorough in introduction

1297
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:36,560
Speaker 3: of yourself.

1298
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:38,840
Speaker 8: So I'm Dan Gage. I'm the executive director for the

1299
01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:42,640
Speaker 8: Colorado's for Responsible Wildlife Management. And it's a five O

1300
01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 8: one C four organization.

1301
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:44,880
Speaker 7: Uh.

1302
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:47,480
Speaker 8: Our mission is to enhance, promote, and defend the North

1303
01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:51,800
Speaker 8: American model of wildlife conservation and responsible wildlife management. And

1304
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:54,520
Speaker 8: so we're not a we're not a membership organization, UH,

1305
01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 8: but we do advocacy work and education work on a

1306
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:01,880
Speaker 8: Friday at different levels, and we have three full time

1307
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:04,960
Speaker 8: lobbyists at the Colorida Capitol. We fight through the legislative

1308
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:07,640
Speaker 8: side of things and the regulatory side through the Parks

1309
01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:11,600
Speaker 8: and Wallife Commission. And now we've been dealt a citizen's

1310
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:16,600
Speaker 8: initiative to bring it to a ballot for November fifth

1311
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:19,320
Speaker 8: of this year to ban the harvest of mountain lions, bobcats,

1312
01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:21,640
Speaker 8: and the red herring on that as links. I heard

1313
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:23,959
Speaker 8: you talk about that before, but I mean links aren't

1314
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:25,720
Speaker 8: harvested full in the lower forty eight. But they want

1315
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:28,400
Speaker 8: to make sure that they never are if they're ever delisted,

1316
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:30,720
Speaker 8: they say, no, we don't want you to ever do

1317
01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 8: it if they ever become delisted.

1318
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:35,439
Speaker 9: Dan, when you say a citizen's initiative, can you say where?

1319
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:38,440
Speaker 9: Like that's like, where did it come from?

1320
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:41,800
Speaker 5: I want to clarify it as real quick though you

1321
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:47,600
Speaker 5: said you've been dealt this right. This is an issue

1322
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:52,240
Speaker 5: that Color Addams for Responsible Wildlife Management is fighting against.

1323
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:56,000
Speaker 8: Fighting against. Yeah, we beat similar type issues through the

1324
01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:59,600
Speaker 8: Parks and Wallife Commission, and they also the antis the

1325
01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:03,280
Speaker 8: extreme went to the General Assembly through the legislature in

1326
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:05,400
Speaker 8: twenty twenty two, and we beat him there. And this

1327
01:03:05,560 --> 01:03:09,240
Speaker 8: was their other option to turn around and file an initiative,

1328
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:12,400
Speaker 8: which twenty six states had that available to them, but

1329
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:15,160
Speaker 8: filing the initiative to where they get enough signatures through

1330
01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:16,960
Speaker 8: the legal process and then they can put it on

1331
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:20,040
Speaker 8: the ballot for people to vote on in an attempt

1332
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:22,800
Speaker 8: to ban I mean, they call it trophy hunting, even

1333
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:25,880
Speaker 8: though we went through the proper steps that were allowed

1334
01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:28,160
Speaker 8: to us or the Secretary of State and the title

1335
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:31,160
Speaker 8: Board and the Supreme Court that we got trophy hunting

1336
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:33,680
Speaker 8: out of the title, but it still remains in the

1337
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 8: measure itself. But it's not trophy hunting. It's a hunting ban.

1338
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 8: It's a mountain lion and bobcat hunting ban is what

1339
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:40,040
Speaker 8: it is.

1340
01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:41,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't fill out of question.

1341
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 2: They're asking what you're interested in retaining from the animal,

1342
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:47,360
Speaker 2: and then you get to get a permit if you

1343
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:48,439
Speaker 2: write the right thing down.

1344
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:53,720
Speaker 8: No, No, it's the intent, is their Definitiontive trophy hunting,

1345
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:59,280
Speaker 8: Steve is intentionally killing, wounding, stalking, and trapping a bobcat

1346
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:03,240
Speaker 8: or mountain lion and intentionally killing. It's not trophy hunting.

1347
01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:07,560
Speaker 8: That's it's hunting. And the scary part about this is

1348
01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:10,400
Speaker 8: that we appreciate the opportunity to continually talk about it.

1349
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:14,600
Speaker 8: But it's an education process because it'll become statutory. I mean,

1350
01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:15,760
Speaker 8: it will set a precedent.

1351
01:04:15,960 --> 01:04:17,760
Speaker 3: Well, I want you back up a little bit because

1352
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:19,320
Speaker 3: I want to get this the language part of this

1353
01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:25,160
Speaker 3: a minute. But how many signatures like tell her about

1354
01:04:25,240 --> 01:04:26,200
Speaker 3: initiative works.

1355
01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:29,760
Speaker 8: So they file, they file, and it has to go

1356
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:33,240
Speaker 8: through the proper legal processes as in any state. There's

1357
01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:36,160
Speaker 8: twenty six states that allow it. But they file and

1358
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:40,760
Speaker 8: then there's an opportunity for arguments from the they're the

1359
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:43,600
Speaker 8: proponents worth the opposers. I was the only objector on

1360
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:46,160
Speaker 8: the entire legal documents through the state.

1361
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:48,960
Speaker 5: When you say they like, who is they?

1362
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:53,160
Speaker 8: So the organization that is doing it is a group

1363
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:56,480
Speaker 8: called Cats Aren't Trophies. It's it's called cats.

1364
01:04:56,600 --> 01:04:57,720
Speaker 3: Was it built for this purpose?

1365
01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:01,440
Speaker 8: It was built specifically for this person purpose. Yes, But

1366
01:05:01,440 --> 01:05:06,000
Speaker 8: but they have deep connections with the Animal Welfare Action,

1367
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:09,600
Speaker 8: Institute for a Humane Economy, which is run by Wayne Piselli,

1368
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:15,160
Speaker 8: the former hs US executive director, and Wild Earth Guardians

1369
01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:18,440
Speaker 8: and a variety And if you look at their website,

1370
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:21,200
Speaker 8: there's fifty or sixty different organizations that are all on board.

1371
01:05:21,720 --> 01:05:25,200
Speaker 8: But it's Cats Aren't Trophies is the organization.

1372
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:26,960
Speaker 3: Is Center for Biological Diversity on it.

1373
01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:30,760
Speaker 8: They're they're on it as far as a supporter, but

1374
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:32,600
Speaker 8: to the best of our knowledge, they haven't put any

1375
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:33,960
Speaker 8: money in that's been trackable.

1376
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:37,040
Speaker 3: Serious club. Everybody is they're on it.

1377
01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:40,120
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean you you look at the you look

1378
01:05:40,160 --> 01:05:43,560
Speaker 8: at the Lord as a supporter, yeah, I mean it's

1379
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:46,000
Speaker 8: it's it's gotten to a point to where I think

1380
01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:48,680
Speaker 8: they see it as a shiny object, and they're willing

1381
01:05:48,720 --> 01:05:50,400
Speaker 8: to turn around and throw their name into the hat

1382
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:55,080
Speaker 8: on every single thing. And the individual people that are

1383
01:05:55,160 --> 01:06:00,760
Speaker 8: running the Colorado side of those organizations have been those

1384
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:02,160
Speaker 8: are the ones that we've been fighting for the last

1385
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:03,840
Speaker 8: twenty years anyway. I mean that's a but they just

1386
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:06,240
Speaker 8: keep resurfacing. I mean it's like mushrooms. You get rid

1387
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:08,480
Speaker 8: of them out of your yard, but they're pretty sure

1388
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:09,480
Speaker 8: they show up somewhere else.

1389
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:14,320
Speaker 2: So weird too, because bobcats are an IUCN species of

1390
01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:15,160
Speaker 2: Least Concern.

1391
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:17,280
Speaker 8: Yeah. Yeah, there's just so.

1392
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:20,320
Speaker 3: Surprising that Center for Biological Diversity in Sierra Club and

1393
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:23,320
Speaker 3: organizations like that would even be in it when you're

1394
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:25,120
Speaker 3: talking about a species of least concern.

1395
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:27,960
Speaker 5: And that's a great point too, when we talk about

1396
01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:32,160
Speaker 5: like they International Union for the Conservation of Nature is

1397
01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:34,560
Speaker 5: like the they when people are like, well, they say

1398
01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:38,880
Speaker 5: it's okay, or they say they're doing good. It's the

1399
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:44,800
Speaker 5: the convention that people go to to see how everything's doing.

1400
01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:49,560
Speaker 5: It's like the science at the back end of all

1401
01:06:50,120 --> 01:06:52,160
Speaker 5: biological diversity basically, and.

1402
01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:54,320
Speaker 2: What I'm saying, species of least concern they rank out.

1403
01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:56,640
Speaker 2: If you're curious about any animal. You can go look

1404
01:06:56,680 --> 01:07:03,840
Speaker 2: up the IUCN status any species and its in foreseeable issues, right,

1405
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:06,960
Speaker 2: So you could have stable populations of an animal, but

1406
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:10,200
Speaker 2: they'll look and they'll be like, well, foreseeable issues coming

1407
01:07:10,280 --> 01:07:13,560
Speaker 2: up and that will impact the level if you go

1408
01:07:13,600 --> 01:07:18,680
Speaker 2: look up a bobcats, bobcats species of Least concerned meaning stable, widespread,

1409
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:20,440
Speaker 2: no foreseeable issues exactly.

1410
01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 8: And same with mountain lions. Yeah, I mean, you know,

1411
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:25,760
Speaker 8: mountain lions, mountain lions, and bobcats are so highly regulated

1412
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:30,160
Speaker 8: in the United States that people, you know, it's the fallacies,

1413
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:32,960
Speaker 8: the lies, and the falsehoods of our enemies. As you

1414
01:07:33,040 --> 01:07:35,680
Speaker 8: say it enough, people start to believe it, and the

1415
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:39,400
Speaker 8: facts and the data will argue those those points that

1416
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:43,800
Speaker 8: the opposition brings. But bobcats and mountain lions, there's no

1417
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:45,480
Speaker 8: We all know this sitting around the table, but the

1418
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:47,080
Speaker 8: general public for the most part doesn't.

1419
01:07:47,240 --> 01:07:47,320
Speaker 3: No.

1420
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:50,840
Speaker 2: And the links thing is funny because links are enjoy

1421
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:53,720
Speaker 2: the highest level of protection that any animal can get

1422
01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:56,120
Speaker 2: in America because they're esa.

1423
01:07:56,040 --> 01:07:59,919
Speaker 8: Protected exactly exactly. They're harvestable in Canada and the last

1424
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:03,920
Speaker 8: but not down a little entire tired lower lower forty eight.

1425
01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:06,400
Speaker 2: They're in dangered species yea, you're protected. Yeah, but there

1426
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:08,560
Speaker 2: state can't. State can't do anything anyway.

1427
01:08:08,680 --> 01:08:10,880
Speaker 8: No, it's just like half the wolves that you turn

1428
01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:12,600
Speaker 8: around to deal with what we what we have to

1429
01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:16,240
Speaker 8: deal with in Colorado. Wolves are not on the endangered

1430
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:19,280
Speaker 8: species list in the Northern Rockies, but they're going to

1431
01:08:19,320 --> 01:08:21,880
Speaker 8: be in Colorado just because we brought them there. But

1432
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:24,519
Speaker 8: it's the same wolves that came from Oregon, that probably

1433
01:08:24,600 --> 01:08:29,280
Speaker 8: came from somewhere else that it's it's the lies that

1434
01:08:29,280 --> 01:08:31,400
Speaker 8: that our opposition wants to be able to bring to

1435
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:33,439
Speaker 8: the table, and they, like I say, if they say

1436
01:08:33,439 --> 01:08:35,200
Speaker 8: it enough, it just becomes the truth as far as

1437
01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:37,280
Speaker 8: they're concerned. And what we're trying to do is make

1438
01:08:37,320 --> 01:08:39,439
Speaker 8: sure that the general public, not just in Colorado, I

1439
01:08:39,479 --> 01:08:42,599
Speaker 8: mean we have to worry about the voter, but throughout

1440
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:45,080
Speaker 8: the United States sportsmen and women need to pay attention

1441
01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:47,400
Speaker 8: because of the way it's written. And you could turn

1442
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:50,280
Speaker 8: on and put it in Arkansas or Wisconsin or anything,

1443
01:08:50,400 --> 01:08:54,280
Speaker 8: just change change their statutes because of the statutory component

1444
01:08:54,320 --> 01:08:56,240
Speaker 8: of this. You know, with people voting on it.

1445
01:08:56,479 --> 01:08:59,200
Speaker 2: Did uh how many votes does it take or how

1446
01:08:59,200 --> 01:09:01,920
Speaker 2: many signatures? And then what's the population of Colorado and

1447
01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:02,439
Speaker 2: how many.

1448
01:09:02,240 --> 01:09:05,240
Speaker 8: Signatures, So it's roughly two percent of the population that

1449
01:09:05,240 --> 01:09:07,200
Speaker 8: they need for signatures. But I think it's one hundred

1450
01:09:07,200 --> 01:09:10,040
Speaker 8: and twenty four two hundred and thirty eight signatures that

1451
01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:12,880
Speaker 8: they have to get that are certified. So they're out

1452
01:09:12,920 --> 01:09:16,640
Speaker 8: gathering signatures now, but we're assuming that they'll probably have

1453
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:18,880
Speaker 8: to get one hundred and eighty thousand because there will

1454
01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:22,080
Speaker 8: be some ineligible ones and someones that aren't.

1455
01:09:22,240 --> 01:09:23,799
Speaker 5: You know, readable or whatever.

1456
01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:26,400
Speaker 8: Exactly, people won't fill it out right, so that one

1457
01:09:26,439 --> 01:09:28,200
Speaker 8: won't They might fill out the wrong county, or they

1458
01:09:28,240 --> 01:09:30,120
Speaker 8: might fill out that it's a country, not a county.

1459
01:09:30,200 --> 01:09:35,760
Speaker 3: Hanging chads, yeah, exactly. You know our young friends, he

1460
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:37,360
Speaker 3: doesn't get the hanging chads, Joe.

1461
01:09:38,320 --> 01:09:40,000
Speaker 5: And you're lucky Gorvy Bush.

1462
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:43,160
Speaker 3: When they get to gor v Bush in history, listen,

1463
01:09:43,240 --> 01:09:44,280
Speaker 3: you'll hear about hanging chads.

1464
01:09:44,320 --> 01:09:50,720
Speaker 5: Yeah. But in Colorado, in the state constitution, they have

1465
01:09:50,840 --> 01:09:57,360
Speaker 5: to pass these citizens initiatives. If the populace votes yay, right.

1466
01:09:57,840 --> 01:10:01,320
Speaker 8: Well, this will not be constitutional. This will be statutory.

1467
01:10:01,360 --> 01:10:04,439
Speaker 8: So a constitutional one would you would have to get

1468
01:10:04,479 --> 01:10:07,840
Speaker 8: two percent of those required signatures from each one of

1469
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:10,519
Speaker 8: the thirty five Senate districts, so this one here, they

1470
01:10:10,520 --> 01:10:12,200
Speaker 8: can all stand out in front of one Whole Foods

1471
01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:15,920
Speaker 8: in downtown Denver. Essentially, That's what I'll say.

1472
01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:19,519
Speaker 2: I always think of that because there's like, you can't

1473
01:10:19,560 --> 01:10:21,920
Speaker 2: go to a Whole Foods now someone having a picnic table.

1474
01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:24,720
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, a folding table off the front left and signatures.

1475
01:10:26,640 --> 01:10:30,719
Speaker 8: Yeah, they they there's We had some guys downtown Denver

1476
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:32,640
Speaker 8: that were doing some other functions and they said there

1477
01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:36,160
Speaker 8: was at one location, there was five individuals that were

1478
01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:40,439
Speaker 8: out gathering signatures four five different ballot initiatives at one spot.

1479
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:42,840
Speaker 8: I mean, I don't know what you do, but if

1480
01:10:42,840 --> 01:10:44,760
Speaker 8: I don't go to the grocery store, my wife does.

1481
01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:46,200
Speaker 8: But if I went there and there was five people

1482
01:10:46,200 --> 01:10:47,479
Speaker 8: trying to hit me up on the way end of

1483
01:10:47,479 --> 01:10:49,880
Speaker 8: the way out, I mean, I'll buy girl Scout cookies

1484
01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:51,160
Speaker 8: if I go. But I'm not going to turn around

1485
01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:52,600
Speaker 8: and stop and sign five petitions.

1486
01:10:52,600 --> 01:10:54,680
Speaker 2: No, I'm always I'm always thinking my head. Just the

1487
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:57,000
Speaker 2: fact that you're here makes me suspicious of what you're

1488
01:10:57,000 --> 01:10:58,160
Speaker 2: getting signatures.

1489
01:10:57,880 --> 01:11:00,280
Speaker 8: Exactly exactly what do you want to change in my life?

1490
01:11:00,439 --> 01:11:05,640
Speaker 3: I mean that the produce But yeah, I don't know

1491
01:11:05,680 --> 01:11:06,439
Speaker 3: what's going on in.

1492
01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:10,519
Speaker 8: This park well, And there's so many things going on

1493
01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:15,719
Speaker 8: in Colorado because of the landscape that we've got. I mean,

1494
01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:20,040
Speaker 8: the gubernatorial administration has not been favorable to us, to

1495
01:11:20,080 --> 01:11:23,000
Speaker 8: say the least when it comes to hunting and fishing

1496
01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:26,439
Speaker 8: and agriculture type issues. And there's some other stuff going

1497
01:11:26,439 --> 01:11:28,320
Speaker 8: on in Denver that the state won't be able to

1498
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:31,479
Speaker 8: vote on, but the Denver City and County residence will

1499
01:11:31,479 --> 01:11:33,400
Speaker 8: And one is a fur ban, which is not a

1500
01:11:33,439 --> 01:11:35,880
Speaker 8: fur ban's it's much broader than that. And it's a

1501
01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:38,679
Speaker 8: slaughterhouse ban as well. Both of those are citizen ballot

1502
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:42,840
Speaker 8: initiatives for Denver City County residents. But those are the

1503
01:11:42,840 --> 01:11:44,559
Speaker 8: same people that will be able to vote on the

1504
01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:47,120
Speaker 8: state wide Mountain Lion and Bobcat issue as well. So

1505
01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:49,160
Speaker 8: they get to vote on three things to try to

1506
01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:52,040
Speaker 8: take away. And the state residents themselves get to vote

1507
01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:53,960
Speaker 8: on the mountain line and Bobcat, but they can't engage

1508
01:11:53,960 --> 01:11:55,479
Speaker 8: in the other ones because they don't live in the city.

1509
01:11:57,320 --> 01:12:00,000
Speaker 8: You're just looking at me like let's go talk.

1510
01:12:01,120 --> 01:12:03,880
Speaker 3: No no, no, no, no, I'm not looking at you that way.

1511
01:12:03,960 --> 01:12:06,640
Speaker 3: I just remember back in I remember back in the

1512
01:12:06,680 --> 01:12:10,479
Speaker 3: early nineties, must have been the nineties when Colorado had

1513
01:12:10,479 --> 01:12:11,479
Speaker 3: the ye had.

1514
01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:13,640
Speaker 2: A bar nation, know, the one they had the trapping Well,

1515
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:15,720
Speaker 2: that was in ninety six, and I'm looking at it

1516
01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:18,320
Speaker 2: that way only because of this. I remember that trapping band.

1517
01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:21,679
Speaker 2: Someone said at the time the minute Denver and Fort

1518
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:26,560
Speaker 2: Collins had a population that equaled the broader population of Colorado,

1519
01:12:27,320 --> 01:12:32,400
Speaker 2: meaning fifty point one percent of Colorado's lived in Denver,

1520
01:12:32,439 --> 01:12:35,120
Speaker 2: Fort Collins, the trapping.

1521
01:12:34,880 --> 01:12:38,040
Speaker 3: Band, YEP. And they were like, man, it was like

1522
01:12:38,160 --> 01:12:42,479
Speaker 3: it was like urban people, the yep, rural people.

1523
01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:46,320
Speaker 8: And I saw a statistic that this is pretty much

1524
01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:49,559
Speaker 8: across the board, especially in the West. In nineteen hundred

1525
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:51,960
Speaker 8: and eighty percent of the population lived on the landscape

1526
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:54,600
Speaker 8: and twenty percent lived in the city or the municipalities.

1527
01:12:55,320 --> 01:12:57,439
Speaker 8: In nineteen fifty it was a fifty to fifty mix,

1528
01:12:57,760 --> 01:13:00,719
Speaker 8: and then two thousand, twenty percent lived on the landscape

1529
01:13:00,720 --> 01:13:02,800
Speaker 8: and eighty percent lived in the cities. I mean just

1530
01:13:02,840 --> 01:13:05,000
Speaker 8: in one hundred years. In the next fifty years, they're

1531
01:13:05,040 --> 01:13:07,320
Speaker 8: saying it'll probably be somewhere around ninety percent live in

1532
01:13:07,320 --> 01:13:09,520
Speaker 8: the cities and ten percent will live on the landscape.

1533
01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:12,560
Speaker 8: That's the problem that we get into because everybody benefits

1534
01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:15,200
Speaker 8: off of hunting and fishing, even if they don't participate

1535
01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:18,639
Speaker 8: in it. They've benefit off of agriculture production. We all

1536
01:13:18,640 --> 01:13:20,559
Speaker 8: had to eat. It's not like we're all growing chickens

1537
01:13:20,600 --> 01:13:23,960
Speaker 8: and gardens in everybody's backyard. But all of that stuff

1538
01:13:24,400 --> 01:13:28,120
Speaker 8: plays into people's psyche because it doesn't affect them until

1539
01:13:28,120 --> 01:13:30,040
Speaker 8: they go to the grocery store orun till they want

1540
01:13:30,040 --> 01:13:32,240
Speaker 8: to feed their kids or go to McDonald's or something.

1541
01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:34,599
Speaker 8: And I think that we're getting to a point where

1542
01:13:34,640 --> 01:13:36,720
Speaker 8: there's going to be some break even where people are

1543
01:13:36,720 --> 01:13:38,479
Speaker 8: just going to get fed up and say, wait a minute,

1544
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:41,840
Speaker 8: let's just leave it up to the experts on a

1545
01:13:41,920 --> 01:13:44,680
Speaker 8: variety of different things. We haven't gotten there yet, but

1546
01:13:44,680 --> 01:13:46,720
Speaker 8: we're going to this November, I think, just because of

1547
01:13:46,720 --> 01:13:49,120
Speaker 8: the outreach that we've got and the momentum that we're

1548
01:13:49,120 --> 01:13:51,120
Speaker 8: actually building on this issue. Because people are sick and

1549
01:13:51,200 --> 01:13:55,040
Speaker 8: tired of extremism. They're sick and tired of somebody telling

1550
01:13:55,080 --> 01:13:57,360
Speaker 8: them what to do. Whether they do it or not,

1551
01:13:57,760 --> 01:13:59,439
Speaker 8: it's the fact that they might want to do it,

1552
01:13:59,520 --> 01:14:01,280
Speaker 8: or they know that their uncle does it, or their

1553
01:14:01,320 --> 01:14:03,240
Speaker 8: brother does it, or the guy that works at Whole

1554
01:14:03,240 --> 01:14:06,000
Speaker 8: Foods does it while somebody's trying to gather signatures outside that.

1555
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:07,800
Speaker 3: That was the point I wanted to get into with this.

1556
01:14:08,120 --> 01:14:14,920
Speaker 2: Which makes it tricky is you look at you look

1557
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:22,880
Speaker 2: at certain environmental battles, that environmental fights that sportsmen.

1558
01:14:22,439 --> 01:14:23,080
Speaker 3: Get involved in.

1559
01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:23,360
Speaker 8: Ok.

1560
01:14:24,120 --> 01:14:27,360
Speaker 2: And the most notable example would be like the huge

1561
01:14:27,400 --> 01:14:31,080
Speaker 2: outpouring of that came from the hunting and fishing community

1562
01:14:31,120 --> 01:14:35,200
Speaker 2: all around the country in opposition to developing the Pebble

1563
01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:40,600
Speaker 2: Mind site. And a lot of like people wanted to

1564
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:43,680
Speaker 2: draw a line in the sand on the Pebble Mind development,

1565
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:48,720
Speaker 2: even if they weren't planning to go to Bristol Bay, right,

1566
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:50,800
Speaker 2: they looked and they're like that, you know, just it

1567
01:14:50,840 --> 01:14:53,280
Speaker 2: was easy for people to picture like that's the wrong

1568
01:14:53,439 --> 01:14:55,880
Speaker 2: mind and the wrong place. I'll never go there, but

1569
01:14:55,960 --> 01:14:58,360
Speaker 2: I recognize that this is something I want to lean

1570
01:14:58,400 --> 01:15:02,479
Speaker 2: in on. The problem it comes to method of take

1571
01:15:02,560 --> 01:15:04,960
Speaker 2: fights or fights like this. I think it's hard for

1572
01:15:04,960 --> 01:15:11,120
Speaker 2: people to picture why it matters to them, Like, you know,

1573
01:15:11,680 --> 01:15:15,120
Speaker 2: I don't hunt bobcats, I don't hunt mountain lions. I

1574
01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:16,799
Speaker 2: don't have any friends that run lines.

1575
01:15:17,320 --> 01:15:22,120
Speaker 3: Why would I care? Right? Because it's it just winds

1576
01:15:22,160 --> 01:15:26,400
Speaker 3: up being harder to imagine why it why you can.

1577
01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:30,639
Speaker 5: By strapolate pebble is just a total clean water issue, right, sure?

1578
01:15:30,800 --> 01:15:35,160
Speaker 5: And clean water the overlap for the general population, the

1579
01:15:35,160 --> 01:15:38,439
Speaker 5: bell curve of the population, it strikes a bigger tone.

1580
01:15:39,240 --> 01:15:44,040
Speaker 5: And so like, what what's our messaging right when we say, well,

1581
01:15:44,760 --> 01:15:50,480
Speaker 5: this method of take this particular species, what's the overlap

1582
01:15:50,560 --> 01:15:54,479
Speaker 5: for the bell curve of the biggest pot possible chunk

1583
01:15:54,520 --> 01:15:59,599
Speaker 5: of the population. Right, That's that's the messaging that that

1584
01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:04,040
Speaker 5: we have to be able to get to with with

1585
01:16:04,120 --> 01:16:05,320
Speaker 5: a lot of non hunters.

1586
01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:08,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think that what if I look at

1587
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:12,800
Speaker 3: I'd worry about I got a handful of balls in

1588
01:16:12,840 --> 01:16:14,000
Speaker 3: your hair, and I'm gonna.

1589
01:16:13,840 --> 01:16:15,439
Speaker 2: Turn back already meant, but I just wanna to clarify

1590
01:16:15,439 --> 01:16:19,920
Speaker 2: a point, like even just if it just if this,

1591
01:16:20,040 --> 01:16:22,719
Speaker 2: if a vote like this breaks on hunters non hunters,

1592
01:16:22,720 --> 01:16:25,920
Speaker 2: you're gonna lose because most people aren't hunters, right, I

1593
01:16:25,920 --> 01:16:29,040
Speaker 2: don't know what what's participation rate in Colorado fourteen high

1594
01:16:29,080 --> 01:16:31,200
Speaker 2: at the high end, at the high end, I'm sure, Okay,

1595
01:16:31,280 --> 01:16:34,240
Speaker 2: so you're gonna lose anyways, So it's like hunters and

1596
01:16:34,280 --> 01:16:37,160
Speaker 2: then some supporters. Now, if we were talking about a

1597
01:16:37,160 --> 01:16:39,640
Speaker 2: deer in elk hunting band, which I don't think is

1598
01:16:39,680 --> 01:16:43,400
Speaker 2: out of the realm of possibility in my kid's lifetime. No, so,

1599
01:16:43,640 --> 01:16:45,880
Speaker 2: if you're talking about a deer elk hunting band, you're

1600
01:16:45,920 --> 01:16:50,679
Speaker 2: gonna bucket up. You're pretty much bucketing up most hunters. Okay,

1601
01:16:50,920 --> 01:16:53,320
Speaker 2: most hunters are gonna be like that impacts me. If

1602
01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:58,599
Speaker 2: you talk about an obscure game animal, you're not even

1603
01:16:58,680 --> 01:17:02,679
Speaker 2: bucketing up most hunters. But even if you had all hunters,

1604
01:17:02,680 --> 01:17:06,439
Speaker 2: you still need extra support from elsewhere, exactly right. So

1605
01:17:06,600 --> 01:17:10,240
Speaker 2: I wonder about how to gather it up, and I

1606
01:17:10,280 --> 01:17:13,160
Speaker 2: would say, like for starters, and I'll leave it to

1607
01:17:13,200 --> 01:17:14,920
Speaker 2: you on the public end of things, the none hunter

1608
01:17:15,040 --> 01:17:17,400
Speaker 2: end of things, I would argue with hunters, why you

1609
01:17:17,439 --> 01:17:20,920
Speaker 2: need to pay attention to this is again, you're talking

1610
01:17:20,960 --> 01:17:27,720
Speaker 2: about taking a stable, expanding population of wildlife. If we

1611
01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:31,080
Speaker 2: say and I don't, I don't. I'm not terribly familiar

1612
01:17:31,080 --> 01:17:36,879
Speaker 2: with the IUCN, but an International Board of Biologists determines

1613
01:17:36,960 --> 01:17:41,080
Speaker 2: these things to be stable with no foreseeable threat.

1614
01:17:41,040 --> 01:17:43,240
Speaker 5: The experts that the experts lean on.

1615
01:17:43,680 --> 01:17:46,920
Speaker 2: And you're saying, no, we're pulling that species out of

1616
01:17:46,960 --> 01:17:51,000
Speaker 2: the pool of available resources, not because they're imperiled, not

1617
01:17:51,120 --> 01:17:54,160
Speaker 2: because they're endangered, not because there's any reason to think

1618
01:17:54,560 --> 01:17:59,800
Speaker 2: that these species have a chance of extirpation, but just

1619
01:17:59,840 --> 01:18:02,120
Speaker 2: be because we don't think you should go and get

1620
01:18:02,120 --> 01:18:07,360
Speaker 2: those exactly. So what's next?

1621
01:18:07,560 --> 01:18:12,439
Speaker 3: Sorry guys, Jeremy Romero was making one of his recipes,

1622
01:18:14,520 --> 01:18:20,559
Speaker 3: uh beria tacos, so so hap is it?

1623
01:18:20,720 --> 01:18:20,920
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1624
01:18:21,439 --> 01:18:23,320
Speaker 8: We learned that in trivia weeks ago.

1625
01:18:23,880 --> 01:18:29,639
Speaker 2: Point being, That's what I would say to hunters, why

1626
01:18:29,680 --> 01:18:33,080
Speaker 2: this matters to you? Because like stuff you like to.

1627
01:18:33,040 --> 01:18:38,800
Speaker 3: Do is in line bears that's definitely coming, right, Someone

1628
01:18:38,840 --> 01:18:41,880
Speaker 3: could go make the case on big horn sheep that

1629
01:18:42,080 --> 01:18:44,960
Speaker 3: they're trying. Yeah, whatever, you know, other stuff is coming.

1630
01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:50,040
Speaker 3: This is just like a stuff. Yeah, archree, that's mean

1631
01:18:51,080 --> 01:18:54,760
Speaker 3: right now. How do you think the like?

1632
01:18:56,160 --> 01:19:00,920
Speaker 2: How should the the non hunting public, why do they care?

1633
01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:07,160
Speaker 8: Well, the hardest thing to get people to understand is

1634
01:19:07,200 --> 01:19:12,800
Speaker 8: why something affects, benefits or adversely affects them. And for

1635
01:19:12,880 --> 01:19:16,320
Speaker 8: somebody that doesn't hunt, they have to recognize. We have

1636
01:19:16,400 --> 01:19:19,000
Speaker 8: to get them to recognize the importance of hunting and

1637
01:19:19,040 --> 01:19:22,240
Speaker 8: conservation and the problem I think that we get into

1638
01:19:22,439 --> 01:19:24,519
Speaker 8: with that messaging is you've got ten percent that are

1639
01:19:24,520 --> 01:19:27,120
Speaker 8: going to be strong, you know, right hunters, and you've

1640
01:19:27,120 --> 01:19:30,400
Speaker 8: got ten percent they're going to be strong, right. Extremist.

1641
01:19:31,080 --> 01:19:33,000
Speaker 8: I don't like the word animal activists because they're not.

1642
01:19:33,000 --> 01:19:36,400
Speaker 8: They're terrorists. They're extremists. You know, they might be activist

1643
01:19:36,479 --> 01:19:39,000
Speaker 8: as well, but I mean their mentality is to disrupt

1644
01:19:39,040 --> 01:19:41,960
Speaker 8: the entire process of every game agency in the country

1645
01:19:41,960 --> 01:19:45,679
Speaker 8: and on the continent. As extremist, I mean they want

1646
01:19:45,720 --> 01:19:48,880
Speaker 8: to do it at the extremist level that they possibly can't.

1647
01:19:49,000 --> 01:19:52,760
Speaker 8: You mentioned big horn sheep Trist's Orneo, and I've mentioned this,

1648
01:19:52,800 --> 01:19:54,320
Speaker 8: I think even on the live show that we did

1649
01:19:54,320 --> 01:19:57,960
Speaker 8: Tris's Orneo with the Denver the Color of the Sun

1650
01:19:58,560 --> 01:20:02,080
Speaker 8: mentioned why are we why are we harvesting bighorn sheep

1651
01:20:02,080 --> 01:20:04,719
Speaker 8: are state animal biggorn cheap and no different than mountain lions.

1652
01:20:04,880 --> 01:20:07,400
Speaker 8: They're already set in the tone in the narrative of

1653
01:20:07,520 --> 01:20:11,240
Speaker 8: why we shouldn't do something and why they should be

1654
01:20:11,280 --> 01:20:12,840
Speaker 8: able to go after the low hanging fruit like on

1655
01:20:12,880 --> 01:20:15,960
Speaker 8: bobcats and mountain lions. There's less bobcat and mountain lion

1656
01:20:16,080 --> 01:20:19,800
Speaker 8: harvesters out there than there is many other things. But

1657
01:20:19,840 --> 01:20:22,599
Speaker 8: there's less big horned sheep, less mountain goat, and less

1658
01:20:22,640 --> 01:20:25,920
Speaker 8: moose harvesters than there is the mountain lion and bobcat combined.

1659
01:20:26,360 --> 01:20:28,439
Speaker 8: You can't, I mean, so you stop and think of that,

1660
01:20:28,800 --> 01:20:30,760
Speaker 8: you know, I mean, we sold twenty five hundred dollars.

1661
01:20:30,920 --> 01:20:33,759
Speaker 3: That's pretty interest that we sold.

1662
01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:36,679
Speaker 8: Twenty five hundred mountain lions last year licenses. Last year

1663
01:20:36,720 --> 01:20:40,879
Speaker 8: we had a success rate of nineteen percent on bobcats.

1664
01:20:40,920 --> 01:20:42,839
Speaker 8: We can only cage trap in the state of Colorado,

1665
01:20:43,040 --> 01:20:45,120
Speaker 8: or we can use hounds, or we can hunt them

1666
01:20:45,200 --> 01:20:49,759
Speaker 8: with predator calls. But roughly about about eight thousand guys

1667
01:20:49,800 --> 01:20:54,720
Speaker 8: participate in some capacity to pursue mountain lions, excuse me, bobcats.

1668
01:20:55,280 --> 01:20:59,200
Speaker 8: This year we harvested around nine hundred bobcats. On some

1669
01:20:59,320 --> 01:21:01,599
Speaker 8: years it's been as highs nineteen hundred that you had

1670
01:21:01,680 --> 01:21:04,160
Speaker 8: guys out there. But in the historical side of things,

1671
01:21:04,200 --> 01:21:07,040
Speaker 8: we did thirty six thirty eight hundred bobcats back in

1672
01:21:07,080 --> 01:21:09,680
Speaker 8: the seventies and crazy when prices were crazy and you

1673
01:21:09,720 --> 01:21:11,840
Speaker 8: had more people out there doing it. You know, trucks

1674
01:21:11,880 --> 01:21:14,599
Speaker 8: cost twelve grand and and bobcats worth four hundred dollars,

1675
01:21:14,640 --> 01:21:17,000
Speaker 8: And now trucks are eighty grand and guy's got fourteen kids,

1676
01:21:17,040 --> 01:21:19,080
Speaker 8: and you know he's got vet bills with his dogs

1677
01:21:19,080 --> 01:21:21,120
Speaker 8: and all the other stuff. I mean, he's not out

1678
01:21:21,160 --> 01:21:23,479
Speaker 8: pursuing like what they used to. But that doesn't mean

1679
01:21:23,479 --> 01:21:27,799
Speaker 8: that it's not a viable option or an advocation for management.

1680
01:21:28,240 --> 01:21:31,559
Speaker 3: But it's interesting that harvest is down historically down. Yeah,

1681
01:21:32,120 --> 01:21:33,400
Speaker 3: it just has a market factor.

1682
01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:37,599
Speaker 8: Well on the bobcats anyway. But back in nineteen sixty five,

1683
01:21:37,600 --> 01:21:40,479
Speaker 8: when when mountain lions became a big game animal. Before that,

1684
01:21:40,520 --> 01:21:43,080
Speaker 8: they were a nuisance in Colorado, we roughly had two

1685
01:21:43,120 --> 01:21:45,120
Speaker 8: hundred mountain lions on a landscape, and now we boast

1686
01:21:45,160 --> 01:21:49,600
Speaker 8: five thousand with regulated hunting, with regulated harvest, with objectives

1687
01:21:49,600 --> 01:21:51,599
Speaker 8: that are met throughout the entire state. We've got more

1688
01:21:51,640 --> 01:21:54,120
Speaker 8: lions now than what we've ever had. And they still

1689
01:21:54,439 --> 01:21:56,360
Speaker 8: want us not to be able to harvest them because

1690
01:21:56,400 --> 01:21:59,280
Speaker 8: it's wrong, that's what they say. They don't care that

1691
01:21:59,320 --> 01:22:01,559
Speaker 8: it has anything to do with management. I think that's

1692
01:22:01,560 --> 01:22:04,280
Speaker 8: where the general public says, why is it wrong? How

1693
01:22:04,320 --> 01:22:07,080
Speaker 8: should it be worked? Why should you just take it out?

1694
01:22:07,439 --> 01:22:10,840
Speaker 8: They're starting to ask those questions. I mean, as many

1695
01:22:10,880 --> 01:22:13,320
Speaker 8: opportunities we've had to talk to the general public at

1696
01:22:13,360 --> 01:22:15,160
Speaker 8: a variety of different levels. And I'm not speaking for

1697
01:22:15,200 --> 01:22:18,639
Speaker 8: all five point nine million people in Colorado, but people

1698
01:22:18,680 --> 01:22:25,040
Speaker 8: are questioning, why, why isn't our game agency. Are scientists

1699
01:22:25,040 --> 01:22:27,920
Speaker 8: and our biologists good enough to make the decisions on

1700
01:22:27,960 --> 01:22:30,960
Speaker 8: our game management practices? And they're starting to realize and

1701
01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:33,880
Speaker 8: I think, honestly, guys, I think the wolf issue brought

1702
01:22:33,920 --> 01:22:37,519
Speaker 8: that to the forefront because there was a fifty one

1703
01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:42,400
Speaker 8: to forty nine percent vote, very very split decision. We

1704
01:22:42,400 --> 01:22:45,400
Speaker 8: were told that we would lose by something like sixty

1705
01:22:45,600 --> 01:22:47,920
Speaker 8: sixty eight to thirty two percent, and it was fifty

1706
01:22:47,960 --> 01:22:49,760
Speaker 8: one to forty nine. I think it's surprised the hell

1707
01:22:49,800 --> 01:22:52,080
Speaker 8: out of everybody on both sides, because even the people

1708
01:22:52,080 --> 01:22:54,040
Speaker 8: that thought, well, maybe this would kind of be cool,

1709
01:22:54,040 --> 01:22:55,559
Speaker 8: but I'm not really sure, and then the other ones

1710
01:22:55,560 --> 01:22:57,000
Speaker 8: that thought, yeah, I'd like to hear a wolf. How

1711
01:22:57,600 --> 01:22:59,120
Speaker 8: now that it's been in the news for the last

1712
01:22:59,120 --> 01:23:02,200
Speaker 8: four years, they're like, well, there's been a lot of negativity.

1713
01:23:02,360 --> 01:23:03,840
Speaker 8: Do we really want to go to the route the

1714
01:23:03,880 --> 01:23:06,640
Speaker 8: Bobkads and mountain lions. The general public is starting to

1715
01:23:06,720 --> 01:23:10,960
Speaker 8: question why we can't rely on our experts. Are scientists

1716
01:23:11,000 --> 01:23:13,360
Speaker 8: We've heard the science, heard the science all the way

1717
01:23:13,360 --> 01:23:16,120
Speaker 8: through COVID, through that whole process. Why can't we follow

1718
01:23:16,160 --> 01:23:18,200
Speaker 8: the science here? And I think that that's starting to

1719
01:23:18,200 --> 01:23:21,880
Speaker 8: play a significant role in people's psyche. Is about well,

1720
01:23:21,920 --> 01:23:23,720
Speaker 8: I like to know that bobcats and mountain lions are

1721
01:23:23,720 --> 01:23:27,160
Speaker 8: appropriately managed because they've been talking about wolvesbying appropriately managed

1722
01:23:27,200 --> 01:23:29,519
Speaker 8: now for the last four years. Why do we need

1723
01:23:29,520 --> 01:23:30,880
Speaker 8: to turn around and put it on the ballot.

1724
01:23:31,160 --> 01:23:33,679
Speaker 3: What was the lion harvest in Colorado last year?

1725
01:23:34,240 --> 01:23:36,960
Speaker 8: Roughly like just less than fived, like four hundred and

1726
01:23:36,960 --> 01:23:38,639
Speaker 8: eighty six. It was actually by hunters.

1727
01:23:38,880 --> 01:23:41,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know if this line up. I don't

1728
01:23:41,560 --> 01:23:44,000
Speaker 3: know how this impactful, this will be the voters.

1729
01:23:44,000 --> 01:23:47,599
Speaker 2: But you see an interested thing happen where the states

1730
01:23:47,640 --> 01:23:48,880
Speaker 2: do depredation work.

1731
01:23:48,960 --> 01:23:49,200
Speaker 8: Yep.

1732
01:23:51,920 --> 01:23:56,240
Speaker 2: I've never checked into this exhaustively, but my understandings before

1733
01:23:56,280 --> 01:24:00,240
Speaker 2: California had their lion hunting, band hunters in cal And

1734
01:24:00,280 --> 01:24:06,120
Speaker 2: you were killing about three hundred lines a year. Since then,

1735
01:24:06,360 --> 01:24:09,160
Speaker 2: the state is killing about three hundred lines a.

1736
01:24:09,200 --> 01:24:11,720
Speaker 8: Year somewhere in that neck of the woods. I've seen

1737
01:24:11,760 --> 01:24:14,680
Speaker 8: high end loads of that. But the but the the

1738
01:24:14,760 --> 01:24:17,800
Speaker 8: kicker trying to explain it to our public is that

1739
01:24:18,040 --> 01:24:21,960
Speaker 8: hunters aren't paying to do that. Taxpayers are paying government officials,

1740
01:24:22,000 --> 01:24:23,080
Speaker 8: whether federal or otherwise.

1741
01:24:23,400 --> 01:24:26,040
Speaker 2: You used to have people pay, used to have people

1742
01:24:26,120 --> 01:24:29,759
Speaker 2: pay for the opportunity, and now you're taking tax parimony

1743
01:24:29,880 --> 01:24:31,320
Speaker 2: to pay someone to do it.

1744
01:24:32,040 --> 01:24:36,280
Speaker 3: As though, And it's so as though the lion that's.

1745
01:24:36,120 --> 01:24:39,320
Speaker 2: Getting shot, it's like, well, thank god it's a government employee.

1746
01:24:39,720 --> 01:24:41,880
Speaker 8: They're happy about it now because they got a.

1747
01:24:41,840 --> 01:24:45,519
Speaker 2: Government employee, got me, not a guy who is paying

1748
01:24:45,560 --> 01:24:46,760
Speaker 2: too well.

1749
01:24:46,800 --> 01:24:50,280
Speaker 11: And that's where like a major like fallacy or lie

1750
01:24:50,360 --> 01:24:54,679
Speaker 11: about the whole story is is that they're telling people that, hey,

1751
01:24:54,720 --> 01:24:57,960
Speaker 11: if we stop this, the end result is that there's

1752
01:24:58,040 --> 01:25:01,280
Speaker 11: less lions killed. Right, I mean, if you're getting pitched

1753
01:25:01,280 --> 01:25:03,280
Speaker 11: this that whole Foods and getting there trying to get

1754
01:25:03,280 --> 01:25:06,120
Speaker 11: your signature, they're gonna tell you we're gonna stop the

1755
01:25:06,200 --> 01:25:07,920
Speaker 11: killing of mountain lions, you.

1756
01:25:07,880 --> 01:25:09,840
Speaker 3: Probably, I mean you'll you'll dent it for sure.

1757
01:25:12,160 --> 01:25:17,920
Speaker 5: Well, this part though, like I don't think that's what's effective. Right,

1758
01:25:18,040 --> 01:25:21,120
Speaker 5: Like we can look at there's a big ass billboard

1759
01:25:21,200 --> 01:25:26,800
Speaker 5: on on the Bozeman Hill here, uh, driving west out

1760
01:25:26,840 --> 01:25:27,600
Speaker 5: of Yellowstone.

1761
01:25:28,240 --> 01:25:28,639
Speaker 3: Uh.

1762
01:25:29,280 --> 01:25:31,960
Speaker 5: Sal Grizzly Bear has a couple of cubs, big old

1763
01:25:31,960 --> 01:25:38,400
Speaker 5: bull's eye drawn on on mom's back and it says uh, right,

1764
01:25:38,479 --> 01:25:40,120
Speaker 5: and like hunters look at it and you're like, well, that's

1765
01:25:40,120 --> 01:25:43,520
Speaker 5: a bunch of bullshit, right, But it's like, uh, delisting

1766
01:25:43,880 --> 01:25:48,240
Speaker 5: state management means trophy hunting. And it's the crosshair on

1767
01:25:48,280 --> 01:25:50,840
Speaker 5: the salas back, which everybody knows is.

1768
01:25:50,840 --> 01:25:54,360
Speaker 3: Illegal to shoot a solid cubs, right.

1769
01:25:54,520 --> 01:25:57,920
Speaker 5: But it's like that means something to hunters, right. But

1770
01:25:57,960 --> 01:26:02,160
Speaker 5: I think all those argue months should be combined and

1771
01:26:02,200 --> 01:26:07,160
Speaker 5: targeted at outdoor groups and say, Okay, here's here's an

1772
01:26:07,240 --> 01:26:10,880
Speaker 5: argument I'm going to make against rock climbing and all

1773
01:26:11,000 --> 01:26:13,680
Speaker 5: rock climbers, and I'm going to bring this as a

1774
01:26:13,720 --> 01:26:17,840
Speaker 5: citizens initiative in the state of Colorado to save raptors. Right,

1775
01:26:18,240 --> 01:26:19,800
Speaker 5: rock climbers, rock face.

1776
01:26:19,840 --> 01:26:21,960
Speaker 8: Sounds like we had this discussion because that's that's the

1777
01:26:22,040 --> 01:26:25,000
Speaker 8: exact same argument that we that we get on multiple things.

1778
01:26:25,840 --> 01:26:27,559
Speaker 3: I want to hear about the rock climbers and raptors.

1779
01:26:27,600 --> 01:26:33,679
Speaker 5: Okay, well, raptors nest. Okay, we know that rock climbers

1780
01:26:33,680 --> 01:26:36,880
Speaker 5: are killing raptors because they're abandoning their nests because of

1781
01:26:36,920 --> 01:26:40,439
Speaker 5: all these popular routes. Sons of bitches, Yep, they're picking

1782
01:26:40,520 --> 01:26:47,120
Speaker 5: up trash, microplastics. There's no reason that rock climbers should

1783
01:26:47,120 --> 01:26:49,519
Speaker 5: be allowed to do this. They're leaving scars on the rocks,

1784
01:26:49,560 --> 01:26:56,320
Speaker 5: big chalk all over the place, and and it's killing

1785
01:26:56,360 --> 01:26:58,760
Speaker 5: these poor birds. And you have the picture of the

1786
01:26:58,800 --> 01:27:05,520
Speaker 5: nest and the little abandoned chicks in there screaming for mom.

1787
01:27:06,000 --> 01:27:08,640
Speaker 5: You know who's choking on the six pack ring at

1788
01:27:08,640 --> 01:27:12,080
Speaker 5: the bottom of the cliff face. All rock climbers are

1789
01:27:12,160 --> 01:27:15,880
Speaker 5: doing this, right, None of that shit's true.

1790
01:27:16,640 --> 01:27:19,439
Speaker 8: Well, to some degree it might be. But the fact

1791
01:27:19,439 --> 01:27:22,040
Speaker 8: of the matter is, if you tell it enough, I mean,

1792
01:27:22,080 --> 01:27:23,760
Speaker 8: you could get people to turn around and buy into

1793
01:27:24,000 --> 01:27:27,840
Speaker 8: absolute especially then that's not big of a group of people. No, right, no,

1794
01:27:27,920 --> 01:27:29,280
Speaker 8: But you think they're going to come out in force

1795
01:27:29,320 --> 01:27:32,639
Speaker 8: and go, wait a minute, well I want a rock climb. Well,

1796
01:27:32,680 --> 01:27:35,679
Speaker 8: I think that the general public would would probably side

1797
01:27:35,720 --> 01:27:38,479
Speaker 8: with the environmental side of it if there wasn't a

1798
01:27:38,479 --> 01:27:40,360
Speaker 8: good argument from the rock climbing community.

1799
01:27:40,360 --> 01:27:42,920
Speaker 5: And there's just not enough rock climbers to get out

1800
01:27:42,920 --> 01:27:43,439
Speaker 5: there and be.

1801
01:27:43,479 --> 01:27:45,080
Speaker 8: Like, well, and that's why we're at that's why we're

1802
01:27:45,080 --> 01:27:47,519
Speaker 8: at such a deal. You know, I've heard statements from

1803
01:27:47,720 --> 01:27:52,559
Speaker 8: from the specific proponents of these measures that their goal

1804
01:27:52,880 --> 01:27:56,120
Speaker 8: to take the low hanging fruit is, you know, take it,

1805
01:27:56,320 --> 01:27:58,360
Speaker 8: then cut the branch, then cut the tree, and then

1806
01:27:58,400 --> 01:28:00,920
Speaker 8: go into the forest. Well, if we're the lowest hanging fruit,

1807
01:28:00,920 --> 01:28:04,080
Speaker 8: the trappers in the mountain lion hunters, where do you

1808
01:28:04,120 --> 01:28:06,360
Speaker 8: go next? I mean your point bear hunting. Would it

1809
01:28:06,400 --> 01:28:08,720
Speaker 8: be a archerie, would it be state animal? Would it

1810
01:28:08,760 --> 01:28:11,160
Speaker 8: be you know, the iconic moose that we introduced there

1811
01:28:11,280 --> 01:28:13,000
Speaker 8: that now they need to be saved so we can

1812
01:28:13,200 --> 01:28:15,400
Speaker 8: feed those to the wolves. I mean, I don't I

1813
01:28:15,400 --> 01:28:18,679
Speaker 8: don't know, but it's easily it's easily distinguishable to see

1814
01:28:18,720 --> 01:28:22,479
Speaker 8: how those lies carry on to the next level because

1815
01:28:22,600 --> 01:28:24,280
Speaker 8: they don't have to pick on these guys anymore, because

1816
01:28:24,320 --> 01:28:26,679
Speaker 8: these guys are gone. These guys are out of the picture.

1817
01:28:27,000 --> 01:28:29,240
Speaker 5: Are you gonna make a great case against mountain biking?

1818
01:28:31,560 --> 01:28:33,719
Speaker 8: You're just gonna go on the recreation side, now.

1819
01:28:33,680 --> 01:28:36,759
Speaker 5: Oh, exactly, hit every recreation group and be like, here's

1820
01:28:36,840 --> 01:28:43,320
Speaker 5: here's my bulletproof pr plan to eliminate your special interest group, right,

1821
01:28:43,400 --> 01:28:44,599
Speaker 5: and we're going to we can do it all through

1822
01:28:44,680 --> 01:28:49,080
Speaker 5: citizens Initiative because we know there's enough other groups that

1823
01:28:49,160 --> 01:28:52,280
Speaker 5: do not participate and don't necessarily give a shit about

1824
01:28:52,320 --> 01:28:56,840
Speaker 5: your thing that you love. And it can all be

1825
01:28:56,920 --> 01:28:58,800
Speaker 5: part of a campaign that says this is why this

1826
01:28:58,960 --> 01:29:03,160
Speaker 5: whole citizen's initiation of stuff needs to be greatly reworked,

1827
01:29:03,800 --> 01:29:07,519
Speaker 5: because it can be manipulated to take away things that

1828
01:29:08,600 --> 01:29:09,679
Speaker 5: don't need to be taken away.

1829
01:29:09,760 --> 01:29:12,240
Speaker 8: And multiple states that I said, you know, twenty six

1830
01:29:12,360 --> 01:29:14,880
Speaker 8: have this available to them. There needs to be a

1831
01:29:14,920 --> 01:29:18,880
Speaker 8: revision in some capacity, whether it's on the wildlife side

1832
01:29:18,960 --> 01:29:22,760
Speaker 8: or just on the citizens petition side itself, because it

1833
01:29:22,880 --> 01:29:27,479
Speaker 8: is being manipulated, it's being abused, and it's bastardizing so

1834
01:29:27,479 --> 01:29:29,800
Speaker 8: many different things that we're dealing with at so many

1835
01:29:29,800 --> 01:29:31,719
Speaker 8: different levels. I mean, you know, you can talk about

1836
01:29:31,760 --> 01:29:33,920
Speaker 8: oil and gas or wind in there's ear, solar sighting

1837
01:29:34,000 --> 01:29:36,880
Speaker 8: or whatever. Everybody thinks it's good until you say that

1838
01:29:36,920 --> 01:29:39,640
Speaker 8: it's going to kill a bunch of wildlife, and it

1839
01:29:39,720 --> 01:29:41,680
Speaker 8: is good. I mean, I'm not saying we should get

1840
01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:43,120
Speaker 8: rid of any of it. It just needs to be

1841
01:29:43,160 --> 01:29:46,120
Speaker 8: appropriately managed. But I don't think that you should get

1842
01:29:46,240 --> 01:29:48,200
Speaker 8: you know, some crazy old women standing out front of

1843
01:29:48,200 --> 01:29:50,360
Speaker 8: Whole Foods trying to ban everything. Pretty soon we'll be

1844
01:29:50,400 --> 01:29:53,080
Speaker 8: running around naked and you know, not being able to

1845
01:29:53,120 --> 01:29:54,040
Speaker 8: get what we want.

1846
01:29:54,960 --> 01:29:55,160
Speaker 3: You know.

1847
01:29:55,200 --> 01:29:58,200
Speaker 2: One of the ways I think that I hesitate to

1848
01:29:58,200 --> 01:30:01,280
Speaker 2: even say this because I'm giving up. I'm like, uh,

1849
01:30:03,560 --> 01:30:09,000
Speaker 2: showing the inside thinking. But a rhetoric I would use

1850
01:30:09,040 --> 01:30:12,240
Speaker 2: in this is one that when I hear it oftentimes

1851
01:30:12,280 --> 01:30:13,639
Speaker 2: causes me to roll my eyes.

1852
01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:15,880
Speaker 3: But it would be.

1853
01:30:17,320 --> 01:30:20,719
Speaker 2: Maybe you're not a hunter, You're probably certainly not a

1854
01:30:20,760 --> 01:30:26,680
Speaker 2: Bobcat hunter, but do you really want these city slickers

1855
01:30:27,520 --> 01:30:28,960
Speaker 2: telling you how to live your life?

1856
01:30:29,720 --> 01:30:30,080
Speaker 3: Mhm?

1857
01:30:31,040 --> 01:30:33,280
Speaker 2: That would wind up be that's very effective to people.

1858
01:30:33,560 --> 01:30:37,960
Speaker 2: And I always go like, oh really really, But that's

1859
01:30:38,000 --> 01:30:39,439
Speaker 2: what I would be pitching big time.

1860
01:30:39,680 --> 01:30:41,360
Speaker 8: Well, if you look at hot tip for you look

1861
01:30:41,600 --> 01:30:43,200
Speaker 8: at look at the where the money comes from. And

1862
01:30:43,680 --> 01:30:45,840
Speaker 8: while we while I say that we've gotten money from

1863
01:30:45,840 --> 01:30:49,479
Speaker 8: fifty states to unless with this fight, the seed money

1864
01:30:49,720 --> 01:30:52,559
Speaker 8: for these efforts from the opposition has come from out

1865
01:30:52,560 --> 01:30:55,599
Speaker 8: of state. It's out of state big money. Oh and

1866
01:30:55,600 --> 01:30:58,559
Speaker 8: and and because it's coming from the national organizations and

1867
01:30:58,600 --> 01:31:00,800
Speaker 8: the and the lunatic one that are out there that

1868
01:31:01,200 --> 01:31:02,439
Speaker 8: you know, I mean, you know what? You know what

1869
01:31:02,520 --> 01:31:05,400
Speaker 8: polled number one when we did our first poll was

1870
01:31:05,439 --> 01:31:08,519
Speaker 8: Carole Baskins off the Tiger King. I mean that that

1871
01:31:08,640 --> 01:31:11,040
Speaker 8: was like, well, we don't want her doing our wildlife. Well,

1872
01:31:11,439 --> 01:31:13,240
Speaker 8: I mean that's where that's what people think about wild life.

1873
01:31:13,240 --> 01:31:14,320
Speaker 3: I don't understand what you're saying.

1874
01:31:14,520 --> 01:31:17,040
Speaker 8: So we did our polling. You asked the questions and

1875
01:31:17,680 --> 01:31:20,360
Speaker 8: trying to get people's attention to figure out where their

1876
01:31:20,400 --> 01:31:23,760
Speaker 8: psyche was, where their impressions were, perspectives on mountain land

1877
01:31:23,800 --> 01:31:27,439
Speaker 8: and Bobcats. Because you asked the question about Carole Baskins

1878
01:31:27,520 --> 01:31:29,960
Speaker 8: that polled number one, where all the other stuff about

1879
01:31:30,120 --> 01:31:33,840
Speaker 8: conservation and economy and wildlife science and the North American.

1880
01:31:33,560 --> 01:31:36,800
Speaker 3: Media disapproval generally a disapproval of her. Yeah, I see,

1881
01:31:36,840 --> 01:31:37,120
Speaker 3: you know.

1882
01:31:37,520 --> 01:31:40,920
Speaker 8: But but but she's she polls number one, not all

1883
01:31:40,920 --> 01:31:42,680
Speaker 8: the good stuff that we should be talking about. She

1884
01:31:42,800 --> 01:31:45,280
Speaker 8: polls number one, and we're thinking, well, how they happened.

1885
01:31:45,360 --> 01:31:49,160
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I still don't understand that Steve famously didn't

1886
01:31:49,160 --> 01:31:52,360
Speaker 3: engage with Tiger King. No, no, no, let's say I did.

1887
01:31:52,680 --> 01:31:53,519
Speaker 8: Let's say I did.

1888
01:31:54,000 --> 01:31:55,800
Speaker 3: I don't understand. What is the poll like?

1889
01:31:56,080 --> 01:31:58,439
Speaker 8: So when you ask you you're trying to get a

1890
01:31:58,439 --> 01:32:01,599
Speaker 8: feel or a pulse from the general public about how

1891
01:32:01,640 --> 01:32:03,920
Speaker 8: you would be able to message to that general public,

1892
01:32:04,320 --> 01:32:05,840
Speaker 8: and what would resonate with them.

1893
01:32:05,880 --> 01:32:08,200
Speaker 3: I understand that, okay, and they're saying, sorry, I didn't.

1894
01:32:08,520 --> 01:32:10,400
Speaker 3: If you were saying, like.

1895
01:32:10,360 --> 01:32:14,519
Speaker 2: Do you have a favorable impression of Baskins as a

1896
01:32:14,560 --> 01:32:17,960
Speaker 2: wildlife manager, yes, they would say resoundingly, I do not

1897
01:32:18,040 --> 01:32:19,479
Speaker 2: have a favorable impression exactly.

1898
01:32:19,760 --> 01:32:21,320
Speaker 8: But if you said what is the most important to

1899
01:32:21,320 --> 01:32:24,320
Speaker 8: you when it comes to wildlife management and you ranked

1900
01:32:24,320 --> 01:32:30,160
Speaker 8: it ABC and you said the economy, wildlife, science, sustainable resources,

1901
01:32:30,400 --> 01:32:34,600
Speaker 8: Carol Baskins. I mean Carole Baskins comes in at the

1902
01:32:34,600 --> 01:32:36,200
Speaker 8: top of like, well, we don't want her, we don't

1903
01:32:36,200 --> 01:32:38,639
Speaker 8: want her management our wildlife. But they're willing to turn

1904
01:32:38,680 --> 01:32:41,439
Speaker 8: around and take some eighty five year old ex uber driver,

1905
01:32:41,920 --> 01:32:44,840
Speaker 8: you know, because that person doesn't want anything other than

1906
01:32:44,840 --> 01:32:49,280
Speaker 8: what Carole Baskins does. And so we are so disconnected

1907
01:32:50,040 --> 01:32:53,360
Speaker 8: from wildlife as you all know. For the general public,

1908
01:32:53,720 --> 01:32:56,040
Speaker 8: I mean, they don't know where they're where the wildlife

1909
01:32:56,040 --> 01:32:58,080
Speaker 8: management comes from. They don't know the science behind it.

1910
01:32:58,080 --> 01:32:59,760
Speaker 8: You talk to people all the time that, well I

1911
01:32:59,800 --> 01:33:02,920
Speaker 8: pay my taxes, well good, I'm glad, but very little

1912
01:33:02,960 --> 01:33:05,559
Speaker 8: of that goes to wildlife conservation and management. It's from

1913
01:33:05,600 --> 01:33:08,760
Speaker 8: licenses the sportsmen and women have historically paid that, and

1914
01:33:08,800 --> 01:33:11,720
Speaker 8: it goes from the North American model practices and the

1915
01:33:12,200 --> 01:33:15,360
Speaker 8: excise taxes. You can't argue that to somebody that doesn't

1916
01:33:15,400 --> 01:33:19,360
Speaker 8: even understand the circle the process. So you have to

1917
01:33:19,360 --> 01:33:21,280
Speaker 8: figure out a way to talk to them about how

1918
01:33:21,479 --> 01:33:25,960
Speaker 8: hunting and fishing benefits them and wildlife as a whole.

1919
01:33:26,080 --> 01:33:29,240
Speaker 8: Seventy eight game species of wildlife that's managed in Colorado,

1920
01:33:29,880 --> 01:33:32,040
Speaker 8: is it really? Yeah? You got nine hundred and sixty

1921
01:33:32,080 --> 01:33:34,559
Speaker 8: one species of wildlife and seventy eight of his game species.

1922
01:33:34,600 --> 01:33:36,880
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I'm sorry, yeah fish.

1923
01:33:36,640 --> 01:33:38,920
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, but they but they would they don't want

1924
01:33:38,920 --> 01:33:40,960
Speaker 8: any of it, you know, it's they don't want you

1925
01:33:40,960 --> 01:33:42,360
Speaker 8: to harvest any of it for any reason.

1926
01:33:52,160 --> 01:33:55,519
Speaker 2: So where where does where does the governor of Colorado,

1927
01:33:55,600 --> 01:33:57,000
Speaker 2: Governor Polls fit into this?

1928
01:33:57,120 --> 01:33:59,519
Speaker 3: Is it like would this all be happening without him?

1929
01:33:59,840 --> 01:34:01,439
Speaker 8: In not to this level?

1930
01:34:02,000 --> 01:34:02,640
Speaker 3: No?

1931
01:34:02,680 --> 01:34:09,839
Speaker 8: This, no, this this uh, this particular individual, his his spouse,

1932
01:34:09,880 --> 01:34:14,120
Speaker 8: the first gentleman of Colorado is a animal rights extremist

1933
01:34:14,760 --> 01:34:17,920
Speaker 8: and he's got well I would like to say he's

1934
01:34:17,920 --> 01:34:20,400
Speaker 8: got deep pockets. I think they combined and have deep pockets.

1935
01:34:23,240 --> 01:34:26,600
Speaker 8: But you look at the support that they get and

1936
01:34:26,680 --> 01:34:28,720
Speaker 8: the connections that they have. I mean, it's like a

1937
01:34:28,720 --> 01:34:31,160
Speaker 8: giant spider web that what they have. As far as

1938
01:34:31,640 --> 01:34:34,680
Speaker 8: the animal rights extremism, and it's not and it's not

1939
01:34:34,800 --> 01:34:36,960
Speaker 8: just about wildlife, it's about everything that has to do

1940
01:34:37,000 --> 01:34:37,439
Speaker 8: with animals.

1941
01:34:37,800 --> 01:34:39,679
Speaker 3: His old man is an animal rights activist.

1942
01:34:39,840 --> 01:34:42,400
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, extremists terrorist.

1943
01:34:42,760 --> 01:34:47,640
Speaker 9: He's inserted some people onto the Colorado Wildlife Commission that

1944
01:34:47,680 --> 01:34:51,520
Speaker 9: aren't necessarily pro correct.

1945
01:34:51,880 --> 01:34:56,200
Speaker 8: Not necessarily pro that's an understatement, but yeah.

1946
01:34:56,760 --> 01:35:00,760
Speaker 9: Which is one way he like he can further his influence, right.

1947
01:35:01,280 --> 01:35:03,840
Speaker 8: Yeah, and even through the Department of Agriculture. I mean

1948
01:35:03,880 --> 01:35:06,000
Speaker 8: you just look at appointments straight across the board, the

1949
01:35:06,040 --> 01:35:10,000
Speaker 8: oversight that's been created with our Game Management Agency because

1950
01:35:10,040 --> 01:35:13,080
Speaker 8: of the extremist mentality what we consider to be an

1951
01:35:13,080 --> 01:35:16,840
Speaker 8: agenda that should be paid attention to by people from

1952
01:35:16,840 --> 01:35:20,080
Speaker 8: all around the country as well. Because that model works.

1953
01:35:20,560 --> 01:35:22,439
Speaker 8: You know, you might not be able to get what

1954
01:35:22,479 --> 01:35:24,880
Speaker 8: you want, but if you put the right people in place,

1955
01:35:25,320 --> 01:35:27,559
Speaker 8: you can get a lot of what you want, and

1956
01:35:27,600 --> 01:35:29,000
Speaker 8: you could do it in a short period of time,

1957
01:35:29,080 --> 01:35:31,600
Speaker 8: just because you're able to turn around and change the

1958
01:35:31,680 --> 01:35:36,439
Speaker 8: mindset of management and regulatory components and how structures, you know,

1959
01:35:36,720 --> 01:35:40,040
Speaker 8: then legislative you know, issues come up to where, well,

1960
01:35:40,960 --> 01:35:44,080
Speaker 8: this is more favorable to that administration, so there may

1961
01:35:44,120 --> 01:35:46,719
Speaker 8: be more likely to support it. I'm you know, I'm considered.

1962
01:35:46,800 --> 01:35:48,920
Speaker 8: We're sitting around here and granted, and it seems like

1963
01:35:48,920 --> 01:35:51,080
Speaker 8: the more and more I do this, I become the

1964
01:35:51,120 --> 01:35:54,200
Speaker 8: oldest guy in the room everywhere I go. But you know,

1965
01:35:54,560 --> 01:35:56,920
Speaker 8: guys like Connor sitting here. I mean, I want him

1966
01:35:56,960 --> 01:35:59,360
Speaker 8: to be able to do what he did not kill

1967
01:35:59,360 --> 01:36:02,599
Speaker 8: the three hundred day six point before. I don't want

1968
01:36:02,640 --> 01:36:05,640
Speaker 8: you to be able to do that. You should be

1969
01:36:05,680 --> 01:36:08,920
Speaker 8: able to kill spikes after this, but I want him

1970
01:36:08,920 --> 01:36:11,479
Speaker 8: to be able to do it. And while we talk

1971
01:36:11,520 --> 01:36:14,720
Speaker 8: about professing to do something for the immediate future, which

1972
01:36:14,760 --> 01:36:17,200
Speaker 8: is now coming this November, I want him to be

1973
01:36:17,240 --> 01:36:18,680
Speaker 8: able to do it when he's my age, I want

1974
01:36:18,680 --> 01:36:20,640
Speaker 8: his kids to be able to do it. And I

1975
01:36:20,640 --> 01:36:25,000
Speaker 8: think that that question resonates really really well with our

1976
01:36:25,160 --> 01:36:28,439
Speaker 8: stakeholder audience that we've got the hunters and anglers, but

1977
01:36:28,520 --> 01:36:32,120
Speaker 8: it resonates well with the non hunter, not the anti

1978
01:36:32,200 --> 01:36:34,080
Speaker 8: but the non hunter as well, because they're like, well,

1979
01:36:34,120 --> 01:36:36,760
Speaker 8: maybe my kid would want to go hunting because my

1980
01:36:36,800 --> 01:36:39,040
Speaker 8: neighbor's kid goes hunting and he talked about taking him.

1981
01:36:39,240 --> 01:36:41,080
Speaker 8: Or you know, they're doing it in scout camp, or

1982
01:36:41,120 --> 01:36:43,559
Speaker 8: they're doing it in some sort of outward bound deal.

1983
01:36:43,600 --> 01:36:47,720
Speaker 8: And it's all preparation for wilderness survival and conservation. And

1984
01:36:47,960 --> 01:36:51,479
Speaker 8: there's the American Wilderness Leadership School. We do stuff for

1985
01:36:51,520 --> 01:36:57,559
Speaker 8: the National Rifle Association Association, the Youth Outdoor Adventure Camp

1986
01:36:57,560 --> 01:36:59,880
Speaker 8: at the Winnington Center, and we sit in kids on scholarships.

1987
01:37:01,080 --> 01:37:03,240
Speaker 8: The reason you do that is because you're hoping that

1988
01:37:03,360 --> 01:37:06,280
Speaker 8: you educate them to be able to participate in this

1989
01:37:06,560 --> 01:37:10,200
Speaker 8: and and escalate their and enhance their knowledge of the landscape.

1990
01:37:10,640 --> 01:37:14,439
Speaker 8: Well did you see what they're doing with the kids

1991
01:37:14,479 --> 01:37:19,639
Speaker 8: in Colorado about naming the wolves? So they had a contest.

1992
01:37:19,640 --> 01:37:22,640
Speaker 8: The governor implemented the contest to name the wolves that

1993
01:37:22,680 --> 01:37:24,800
Speaker 8: we introduced, jumped them on the ground, named them.

1994
01:37:24,840 --> 01:37:27,560
Speaker 3: Had a big contest because that way, when one of

1995
01:37:27,600 --> 01:37:28,880
Speaker 3: them dies from something, it.

1996
01:37:28,800 --> 01:37:30,680
Speaker 8: Will be like, I mean, how do you like to

1997
01:37:30,680 --> 01:37:32,400
Speaker 8: be the first rancher that has a sheep beating and

1998
01:37:32,560 --> 01:37:35,479
Speaker 8: you actually kill it under the tenj rule And somebody says, well,

1999
01:37:35,640 --> 01:37:38,320
Speaker 8: that guy killed Maverick, you know, I mean, yeah, I

2000
01:37:38,360 --> 01:37:40,160
Speaker 8: mean they're going to be protesting him. They're not going

2001
01:37:40,240 --> 01:37:42,840
Speaker 8: to want to eat his beef. It's this indoctrination, this

2002
01:37:42,920 --> 01:37:45,639
Speaker 8: psycho analysis that they've done, and even.

2003
01:37:45,640 --> 01:37:49,720
Speaker 3: When they got a name like M six, yeah, just you.

2004
01:37:49,680 --> 01:37:53,439
Speaker 8: Know, B fifty two. But I want to I want

2005
01:37:53,479 --> 01:38:00,800
Speaker 8: to see our society recognize the need for content as

2006
01:38:00,800 --> 01:38:03,519
Speaker 8: opposed to just talk about it. And I really I

2007
01:38:03,560 --> 01:38:04,280
Speaker 8: think that there's.

2008
01:38:04,080 --> 01:38:06,760
Speaker 3: A lot I mean as opposed to a preservation mentality.

2009
01:38:06,880 --> 01:38:09,760
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean my grandma used to preserve jam and

2010
01:38:09,760 --> 01:38:12,320
Speaker 8: put it on the shelf, and my grandfather always used

2011
01:38:12,320 --> 01:38:15,960
Speaker 8: to say, no, that's conservation because I'm going to eat it.

2012
01:38:16,200 --> 01:38:19,080
Speaker 8: We're not put in there just to preserve it. But

2013
01:38:19,200 --> 01:38:21,400
Speaker 8: I want to I want to see. I think with

2014
01:38:21,439 --> 01:38:25,240
Speaker 8: what we're trying to accomplish, we have a moment in

2015
01:38:25,360 --> 01:38:28,640
Speaker 8: time that we can actually prop up a flag. And

2016
01:38:28,680 --> 01:38:30,240
Speaker 8: I don't want to be all sappy about it, but

2017
01:38:30,680 --> 01:38:34,439
Speaker 8: it's our chances sportsmen and women in the United States

2018
01:38:34,439 --> 01:38:37,439
Speaker 8: to prop up a flag and stop something that could

2019
01:38:37,520 --> 01:38:41,400
Speaker 8: dramatically affect about any other state, or any other species,

2020
01:38:41,479 --> 01:38:44,280
Speaker 8: or any other method of take or season or anything.

2021
01:38:44,360 --> 01:38:48,400
Speaker 8: Because once you start doing statutory regulations instead of precedent.

2022
01:38:49,280 --> 01:38:52,200
Speaker 8: I mean, it's easy for everybody else to go, well,

2023
01:38:52,200 --> 01:38:53,920
Speaker 8: they did it over here. Sure, all we have to

2024
01:38:53,920 --> 01:38:57,240
Speaker 8: do is change this species or take this out. And

2025
01:38:57,280 --> 01:38:58,519
Speaker 8: I wanted to bring up because.

2026
01:38:58,520 --> 01:39:00,200
Speaker 3: There's two things I want to do though, Yeah, so

2027
01:39:00,280 --> 01:39:02,000
Speaker 3: hold that thought, because the two things I want to

2028
01:39:02,040 --> 01:39:02,760
Speaker 3: do is, uh.

2029
01:39:04,880 --> 01:39:08,080
Speaker 2: One, I want to explore how certain the outcome is.

2030
01:39:09,920 --> 01:39:11,680
Speaker 2: You might look at this and look at some of

2031
01:39:11,720 --> 01:39:14,360
Speaker 2: the demographics we're talking about and look and be like that,

2032
01:39:14,479 --> 01:39:21,200
Speaker 2: you know, the governors behind it, certain certain environmental groups

2033
01:39:21,240 --> 01:39:23,320
Speaker 2: that a lot of name recognition are behind it. It

2034
01:39:23,400 --> 01:39:26,639
Speaker 2: must be that like, like, hunters are automatically going to lose,

2035
01:39:27,240 --> 01:39:33,479
Speaker 2: but they don't always lose. No, Maine beat a bear

2036
01:39:33,600 --> 01:39:39,000
Speaker 2: hunting band yep, some years back. Montana beat a public

2037
01:39:39,040 --> 01:39:45,000
Speaker 2: land trapping band overwhelmingly recently, very different politics.

2038
01:39:45,439 --> 01:39:49,320
Speaker 9: Arizona is similar to Colorado, and they beat a cat

2039
01:39:49,400 --> 01:39:50,080
Speaker 9: hunting band.

2040
01:39:50,400 --> 01:39:52,599
Speaker 8: So they didn't they didn't even get signatures down there

2041
01:39:52,600 --> 01:39:55,120
Speaker 8: because they did such a formidable campaign to make sure

2042
01:39:55,160 --> 01:39:56,320
Speaker 8: they didn't get the signatures.

2043
01:39:56,560 --> 01:40:01,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's not that's the bright side. The not

2044
01:40:01,400 --> 01:40:03,360
Speaker 2: bright side is you lose.

2045
01:40:03,120 --> 01:40:05,840
Speaker 3: A lot too. And and I could name a bunch

2046
01:40:05,840 --> 01:40:08,600
Speaker 3: of states that have lost a bunch of stuff. But

2047
01:40:09,160 --> 01:40:12,759
Speaker 3: point being, the fact that it's on the ballot doesn't

2048
01:40:12,800 --> 01:40:14,160
Speaker 3: mean it's one.

2049
01:40:14,640 --> 01:40:18,360
Speaker 2: No, like this is going to be decided. It might

2050
01:40:18,439 --> 01:40:21,200
Speaker 2: be tight, but this is going to be something that's

2051
01:40:21,200 --> 01:40:24,120
Speaker 2: decided down the future. Like it's not This isn't news

2052
01:40:24,200 --> 01:40:26,960
Speaker 2: of something that happened. This is news of something that's

2053
01:40:28,000 --> 01:40:31,360
Speaker 2: coming and will be addressed in the future.

2054
01:40:32,080 --> 01:40:32,320
Speaker 3: Right.

2055
01:40:34,000 --> 01:40:35,320
Speaker 2: So that's the first point I want to make, and

2056
01:40:35,320 --> 01:40:39,160
Speaker 2: I want to make as you continue your thought, what

2057
01:40:39,320 --> 01:40:42,280
Speaker 2: is the most productive thing, the most helpful thing that

2058
01:40:42,280 --> 01:40:43,280
Speaker 2: people can do.

2059
01:40:44,800 --> 01:40:45,840
Speaker 8: Give me a bunch of money?

2060
01:40:46,200 --> 01:40:49,320
Speaker 3: Okay? And yeah.

2061
01:40:50,400 --> 01:40:52,559
Speaker 4: Something the other day that was and I don't know

2062
01:40:52,560 --> 01:40:55,240
Speaker 4: if this is true or not, but it was something like,

2063
01:40:55,280 --> 01:40:59,800
Speaker 4: if every person who applies for non resident ELK in Colorado,

2064
01:41:00,040 --> 01:41:01,400
Speaker 4: We're to send you twenty dollars.

2065
01:41:01,520 --> 01:41:05,519
Speaker 3: Yep, you'd have the what anticipated are you serious? The

2066
01:41:05,560 --> 01:41:07,200
Speaker 3: war chest? Yeah, the war chest.

2067
01:41:07,200 --> 01:41:10,960
Speaker 4: Sort of amounting yeah, yeah, And so like you have

2068
01:41:11,000 --> 01:41:12,240
Speaker 4: a number's apply.

2069
01:41:12,479 --> 01:41:15,200
Speaker 2: Brody's applying is a cowsking like this, Brody just found

2070
01:41:15,200 --> 01:41:19,439
Speaker 2: he's gonna play. He's applying his kids, Oh to wear Colorado.

2071
01:41:19,640 --> 01:41:20,120
Speaker 5: That's fine.

2072
01:41:22,720 --> 01:41:24,599
Speaker 3: So Brody's got to send you sixty bucks.

2073
01:41:24,840 --> 01:41:26,640
Speaker 8: Ye, well, you're you're exactly right.

2074
01:41:26,720 --> 01:41:28,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, you have a war you have a number that

2075
01:41:28,439 --> 01:41:30,880
Speaker 4: you need for a war chest to fight this, you

2076
01:41:30,880 --> 01:41:34,840
Speaker 4: know effectively. Yeah, And it's a number that people who

2077
01:41:34,840 --> 01:41:38,559
Speaker 4: are spending money on their hunting dreams down the line

2078
01:41:38,880 --> 01:41:43,320
Speaker 4: can can pull together without too much heartache on anyone.

2079
01:41:43,479 --> 01:41:45,439
Speaker 8: We've been working with Howl for Wildlife on a bunch

2080
01:41:45,439 --> 01:41:47,040
Speaker 8: of different things, trying to get a message out and

2081
01:41:47,080 --> 01:41:50,000
Speaker 8: they they've got a really unique system to be able

2082
01:41:50,040 --> 01:41:52,240
Speaker 8: to deal with the legislative side of things throughout the

2083
01:41:52,240 --> 01:41:54,920
Speaker 8: country and they've been really effective over the last two years.

2084
01:41:55,240 --> 01:41:58,920
Speaker 8: But they're helping us dramatically on this, which is kind

2085
01:41:58,920 --> 01:42:01,320
Speaker 8: of the first ballot in issue that they've actually engaged

2086
01:42:01,360 --> 01:42:04,600
Speaker 8: in to this degree. And one of the arguments that

2087
01:42:04,640 --> 01:42:06,840
Speaker 8: we've actually given is to your point, it's almost two

2088
01:42:06,880 --> 01:42:09,479
Speaker 8: hundred thousand non resident applications that come in and they're

2089
01:42:09,479 --> 01:42:11,639
Speaker 8: coming in now. It goes all the way. The deadline

2090
01:42:11,680 --> 01:42:14,679
Speaker 8: is April second, but you have to buy a qualifying license.

2091
01:42:14,800 --> 01:42:16,840
Speaker 8: I think it's thirty nine to fifty four bucks, depending

2092
01:42:16,880 --> 01:42:18,839
Speaker 8: on which one you get. You got to buy preference points,

2093
01:42:19,000 --> 01:42:22,639
Speaker 8: you have to pay pay application fees. If every person

2094
01:42:22,680 --> 01:42:24,880
Speaker 8: that put in for the state of Colorado would just

2095
01:42:24,920 --> 01:42:27,519
Speaker 8: take some of what they're already given Colorado that they

2096
01:42:27,520 --> 01:42:29,719
Speaker 8: don't get anything out of unless they draw a license.

2097
01:42:29,760 --> 01:42:32,200
Speaker 8: I mean, just you don't even you're putting money in

2098
01:42:32,560 --> 01:42:35,000
Speaker 8: for a lottery ticket. But we know that we're not

2099
01:42:35,120 --> 01:42:37,439
Speaker 8: all gonna I mean, you got eleven percent success out

2100
01:42:37,479 --> 01:42:39,400
Speaker 8: of your deal, but you know you're an anomaly. So

2101
01:42:39,720 --> 01:42:43,160
Speaker 8: I mean your twenty bucks. Yeah, he doesn't need to

2102
01:42:43,240 --> 01:42:43,919
Speaker 8: hunt Colorado.

2103
01:42:44,080 --> 01:42:47,280
Speaker 5: So we know the folks are paying the taxi duringy bill. Okay,

2104
01:42:47,360 --> 01:42:48,000
Speaker 5: so coff it out.

2105
01:42:48,080 --> 01:42:51,200
Speaker 8: Yeah, you don't get to get out of here unless

2106
01:42:51,240 --> 01:42:56,080
Speaker 8: you pay ahead of time. But we we have a

2107
01:42:56,120 --> 01:42:59,200
Speaker 8: funded mechanism in the United States with people that apply

2108
01:42:59,280 --> 01:43:02,400
Speaker 8: all around the country just for the opportunity to apply.

2109
01:43:02,520 --> 01:43:05,040
Speaker 8: We're just asking people to help support our cause so

2110
01:43:05,080 --> 01:43:07,959
Speaker 8: we can fight for the opportunity for them to continue

2111
01:43:07,960 --> 01:43:10,960
Speaker 8: to apply. I mean mountain lions, you know they don't

2112
01:43:10,960 --> 01:43:12,920
Speaker 8: eat celery and kale. I mean they eat deer in

2113
01:43:13,000 --> 01:43:14,880
Speaker 8: elk and wolves are going to do the same thing.

2114
01:43:14,920 --> 01:43:17,800
Speaker 8: Our bear population has expanded significantly. They're going to eat

2115
01:43:18,000 --> 01:43:20,360
Speaker 8: you know, a lot of deer and elk. You have

2116
01:43:20,439 --> 01:43:22,920
Speaker 8: that many apex predators on the landscape with five point

2117
01:43:23,000 --> 01:43:25,360
Speaker 8: nine million people and habitat loss and you know the

2118
01:43:25,400 --> 01:43:28,680
Speaker 8: amount of recreation that we have. Our elk populations and

2119
01:43:28,760 --> 01:43:31,680
Speaker 8: deer populations are not in peril. What are they going

2120
01:43:31,720 --> 01:43:33,880
Speaker 8: to be in ten years? I mean, we have to

2121
01:43:33,640 --> 01:43:36,160
Speaker 8: do some sort of preparation for down the road, for

2122
01:43:36,320 --> 01:43:38,519
Speaker 8: sustainable management opportunities.

2123
01:43:38,000 --> 01:43:40,760
Speaker 3: As other as irritates people. This is the thing that

2124
01:43:40,880 --> 01:43:41,439
Speaker 3: troubles me.

2125
01:43:41,760 --> 01:43:45,880
Speaker 2: Uh if you say, like if a hunter, if a

2126
01:43:45,920 --> 01:43:49,120
Speaker 2: big game hunter says, oh no, no, no, you know, I

2127
01:43:49,200 --> 01:43:50,759
Speaker 2: welcome predators being on the ground.

2128
01:43:50,800 --> 01:43:51,519
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, but.

2129
01:43:51,520 --> 01:43:53,479
Speaker 2: I like predator control because I like there to be

2130
01:43:53,520 --> 01:43:54,800
Speaker 2: a lot of deer and elk. A lot of people

2131
01:43:54,920 --> 01:43:55,280
Speaker 2: view that.

2132
01:43:55,200 --> 01:43:58,200
Speaker 3: It as like a like a non defendable position, right,

2133
01:43:58,520 --> 01:44:01,599
Speaker 3: But it's so funny because you see it reflected.

2134
01:44:02,560 --> 01:44:06,639
Speaker 2: So widely in the animal kingdom. You know, kyotes ketch

2135
01:44:06,640 --> 01:44:08,640
Speaker 2: a wolf, or wolves ketch a kyote, they kill it.

2136
01:44:08,960 --> 01:44:11,000
Speaker 2: Kyote's ketch a fox, they kill it. It's sort of

2137
01:44:11,000 --> 01:44:13,800
Speaker 2: this general tendency to want to be like, no, I'm

2138
01:44:13,800 --> 01:44:17,120
Speaker 2: defending my hunk of the piece of the pie. But

2139
01:44:17,240 --> 01:44:21,559
Speaker 2: I don't think it's that problematic, you know, I feel

2140
01:44:21,600 --> 01:44:25,000
Speaker 2: that that hunters should be like morally emboldened to go

2141
01:44:25,080 --> 01:44:28,880
Speaker 2: and say no, I want to defend high numbers of

2142
01:44:28,960 --> 01:44:33,519
Speaker 2: dar and elk to support the hunting that I want

2143
01:44:33,560 --> 01:44:36,280
Speaker 2: to do. Like I'm after, I'm chasing that number, like

2144
01:44:36,439 --> 01:44:42,120
Speaker 2: high harvestable surpluses of dearon elk, and I will take

2145
01:44:42,160 --> 01:44:45,120
Speaker 2: that fight to people that want to degrade habitat right,

2146
01:44:45,160 --> 01:44:48,000
Speaker 2: which is gonna chip into my surplus. I'll take that

2147
01:44:48,040 --> 01:44:50,840
Speaker 2: fight to people that want to degrade any kind of

2148
01:44:50,840 --> 01:44:54,120
Speaker 2: predator control because that's fighting into my thing and that's

2149
01:44:54,240 --> 01:44:56,439
Speaker 2: what I'm chasing, and that's what I'm interested in.

2150
01:44:56,520 --> 01:44:59,759
Speaker 3: Like that, to me is a totally defendable position.

2151
01:45:00,240 --> 01:45:02,320
Speaker 8: I think to like, I'm pro deer and elk, you're

2152
01:45:02,320 --> 01:45:05,320
Speaker 8: pro dearing elk, but your pro wildlife period You know

2153
01:45:05,400 --> 01:45:05,880
Speaker 8: I went through this.

2154
01:45:06,000 --> 01:45:06,160
Speaker 2: I do know.

2155
01:45:06,240 --> 01:45:11,599
Speaker 3: I advocate for listen man, never have, never will.

2156
01:45:11,680 --> 01:45:15,400
Speaker 2: I do not advocate for the removal of any native wildlife.

2157
01:45:15,520 --> 01:45:20,360
Speaker 8: No ever, no, and and so nor do I. I

2158
01:45:20,400 --> 01:45:22,800
Speaker 8: didn't vote for the wolf deal because I don't think

2159
01:45:22,800 --> 01:45:27,880
Speaker 8: it should be done by ballot box. Biology understand citizens initiatives.

2160
01:45:27,920 --> 01:45:30,360
Speaker 8: I mean if they walk or they walk in well

2161
01:45:30,640 --> 01:45:32,599
Speaker 8: they did like they did that we had to turn

2162
01:45:32,640 --> 01:45:36,000
Speaker 8: around and kind of influence, you know, an ongoing program

2163
01:45:36,040 --> 01:45:38,479
Speaker 8: for that. I don't I don't believe in ballot box

2164
01:45:38,520 --> 01:45:41,760
Speaker 8: biology for any wildlife make a decision. If that's the case,

2165
01:45:41,840 --> 01:45:43,800
Speaker 8: why do we have three hundred and fifty scientists in

2166
01:45:43,840 --> 01:45:46,799
Speaker 8: our agency. I don't think that the Gallant Whole Foods

2167
01:45:46,800 --> 01:45:49,320
Speaker 8: are the lift driver or the guy that drives for

2168
01:45:49,439 --> 01:45:52,360
Speaker 8: ups or the rock Rockies left fielder. I don't think

2169
01:45:52,400 --> 01:45:56,080
Speaker 8: they should be able to turn around and you know, yeah,

2170
01:45:56,760 --> 01:45:58,280
Speaker 8: I don't think they should be able to turn around

2171
01:45:58,320 --> 01:46:01,600
Speaker 8: and decide what our wildlife management agencies are stuck with,

2172
01:46:01,760 --> 01:46:04,439
Speaker 8: you know, I mean it puts them into such a

2173
01:46:04,479 --> 01:46:08,920
Speaker 8: significant position of trying to do what's right when they're

2174
01:46:08,960 --> 01:46:11,880
Speaker 8: forced to do something that they know doesn't balance with

2175
01:46:11,920 --> 01:46:15,000
Speaker 8: what their management plans on seventy other game species are.

2176
01:46:15,240 --> 01:46:19,080
Speaker 9: Have you seen any backlash, Like in the COVID era,

2177
01:46:19,240 --> 01:46:22,479
Speaker 9: it became like this thing, like like we always say

2178
01:46:22,479 --> 01:46:26,559
Speaker 9: trust the science, trust the biologists, but it's also become

2179
01:46:26,640 --> 01:46:29,120
Speaker 9: this thing in the last few years to be like, well,

2180
01:46:29,120 --> 01:46:32,800
Speaker 9: the scientists are full of shit, like people. It's a

2181
01:46:32,800 --> 01:46:36,559
Speaker 9: thing now where people don't trust the science, and like

2182
01:46:36,680 --> 01:46:38,840
Speaker 9: I see that as kind of a challenge when you're

2183
01:46:38,840 --> 01:46:42,280
Speaker 9: like trust these wildlife management agencies, because a lot of

2184
01:46:42,320 --> 01:46:44,000
Speaker 9: people are have a tendency to.

2185
01:46:44,920 --> 01:46:45,599
Speaker 3: Not do that.

2186
01:46:45,760 --> 01:46:48,919
Speaker 2: Trust the science is law. I can't say it anymore,

2187
01:46:48,960 --> 01:46:51,479
Speaker 2: I know, but because you know, yeah, but that trust

2188
01:46:51,560 --> 01:46:54,720
Speaker 2: the science thing after COVID it needs a break because

2189
01:46:54,760 --> 01:46:57,760
Speaker 2: it got so abused by everybody on all sides where

2190
01:46:57,800 --> 01:46:59,560
Speaker 2: you like the science is whatever.

2191
01:46:59,360 --> 01:47:03,320
Speaker 3: You right, So in this argument from your body at

2192
01:47:03,320 --> 01:47:04,080
Speaker 3: the maybe.

2193
01:47:04,080 --> 01:47:07,840
Speaker 9: It's a tough position to put you know, these agencies

2194
01:47:07,880 --> 01:47:09,240
Speaker 9: and to be like trust trust as well.

2195
01:47:09,280 --> 01:47:09,400
Speaker 7: Well.

2196
01:47:09,479 --> 01:47:13,960
Speaker 8: But in my argument to that has been followed the science, right,

2197
01:47:14,560 --> 01:47:16,840
Speaker 8: you got you got fifty eighty one hundred years of

2198
01:47:16,920 --> 01:47:21,040
Speaker 8: data and science and studies and population densities and models

2199
01:47:21,040 --> 01:47:25,960
Speaker 8: and objectives. To me, that's that's worthy. When somebody comes

2200
01:47:26,000 --> 01:47:29,360
Speaker 8: out from March seventeenth of twenty twenty to March thirtieth

2201
01:47:29,400 --> 01:47:31,120
Speaker 8: and says, follow the science, wear a mask at all

2202
01:47:31,120 --> 01:47:33,240
Speaker 8: these shots. Okay, well two weeks of science really isn't

2203
01:47:33,400 --> 01:47:35,439
Speaker 8: what I want to follow. That's that's that's more of

2204
01:47:35,439 --> 01:47:38,080
Speaker 8: what I want you to do. Forty fifty sixty years.

2205
01:47:38,439 --> 01:47:40,720
Speaker 8: I think that that's a track record that you can use.

2206
01:47:40,920 --> 01:47:45,080
Speaker 8: You can sustainably support and because because there's so many

2207
01:47:45,120 --> 01:47:46,200
Speaker 8: other components of that.

2208
01:47:46,439 --> 01:47:48,120
Speaker 9: Well, yeah, I think a lot of people would have

2209
01:47:48,560 --> 01:47:52,800
Speaker 9: no clue that since mountain lions like across the board

2210
01:47:52,800 --> 01:47:56,240
Speaker 9: where they became managed as game animals, Yep, there's way

2211
01:47:56,240 --> 01:47:58,720
Speaker 9: more of them now than there was, say eighty or

2212
01:47:58,760 --> 01:47:59,639
Speaker 9: one hundred years ago.

2213
01:48:00,200 --> 01:48:02,880
Speaker 2: Instead of trust the science, sorry, anam, Instead of trust

2214
01:48:02,880 --> 01:48:06,840
Speaker 2: the science, I'm like, trust the process when you've had

2215
01:48:06,840 --> 01:48:11,120
Speaker 2: similar things happen. We're trying to with federal the federal

2216
01:48:11,200 --> 01:48:15,080
Speaker 2: government trying to influence Alaska's wildlife manager practices, for instance,

2217
01:48:15,080 --> 01:48:17,479
Speaker 2: like helmet by, what right do you have to go

2218
01:48:17,520 --> 01:48:23,520
Speaker 2: after them? They have a completely intact menagerie of wildlife.

2219
01:48:24,760 --> 01:48:26,800
Speaker 2: They have wolves and grizzlies occupying like I don't know

2220
01:48:26,800 --> 01:48:30,360
Speaker 2: what ninety six percent of historic range. They don't have

2221
01:48:30,439 --> 01:48:34,800
Speaker 2: extra patients. They're still trying to go in catalog wildlife.

2222
01:48:35,000 --> 01:48:40,559
Speaker 2: They're not in recovery mode. Where is the criticism with

2223
01:48:40,680 --> 01:48:43,679
Speaker 2: Colorado fishing gimmick? Where is the evidence that they're messing up?

2224
01:48:44,080 --> 01:48:47,320
Speaker 9: Yeah, but even in Alaska they've tried to with a

2225
01:48:47,320 --> 01:48:48,719
Speaker 9: whole like crawling into dens.

2226
01:48:48,840 --> 01:48:50,400
Speaker 2: Well, no, that's what I'm saying, Like I'm talking about

2227
01:48:50,400 --> 01:48:52,679
Speaker 2: that attack on them. It is like where like show

2228
01:48:52,800 --> 01:48:56,680
Speaker 2: me where Alaska fishing game, Like show me where they're

2229
01:48:56,720 --> 01:49:00,400
Speaker 2: screwing up, or with with fishing with Colorado, Like show

2230
01:49:00,439 --> 01:49:01,600
Speaker 2: me where the state is messing up.

2231
01:49:01,640 --> 01:49:02,720
Speaker 3: Can you go and point to.

2232
01:49:02,720 --> 01:49:06,280
Speaker 2: Me that that is it? What was the FW What

2233
01:49:06,320 --> 01:49:08,400
Speaker 2: is it there? FWP is not f WP.

2234
01:49:08,200 --> 01:49:13,200
Speaker 3: It's CW change prks in Colorado, Okay, whatever the hell.

2235
01:49:13,720 --> 01:49:18,439
Speaker 2: Colorado's Fishing Game Agency and it's in its current form

2236
01:49:18,600 --> 01:49:22,479
Speaker 2: over decades. Show me where they have been letting game

2237
01:49:22,560 --> 01:49:27,679
Speaker 2: animals uh slip through their grasp and slip into extinction

2238
01:49:28,240 --> 01:49:29,280
Speaker 2: or slip into extirpation.

2239
01:49:29,800 --> 01:49:33,200
Speaker 3: It's like there's no evidence. Maybe they might make little mistakes.

2240
01:49:33,240 --> 01:49:35,479
Speaker 2: Everyone does. There's no evidence that they're shitting the bed.

2241
01:49:37,200 --> 01:49:39,439
Speaker 2: So it's like trust the science, going like I don't know,

2242
01:49:39,600 --> 01:49:42,479
Speaker 2: trust the last seventy five.

2243
01:49:42,400 --> 01:49:44,160
Speaker 3: Years or whatever the hell it is that they're not

2244
01:49:44,280 --> 01:49:44,920
Speaker 3: like losing.

2245
01:49:45,040 --> 01:49:47,680
Speaker 2: It's not like, oh, yeah, we were supposed to be

2246
01:49:47,800 --> 01:49:49,960
Speaker 2: managing those but they all they're gone now.

2247
01:49:50,720 --> 01:49:51,920
Speaker 8: We didn't even know they were here.

2248
01:49:52,479 --> 01:49:55,679
Speaker 3: It's just not happening, Like they're not messing up.

2249
01:49:56,080 --> 01:49:59,479
Speaker 4: I think I think one challenge is like the average

2250
01:49:59,479 --> 01:50:02,320
Speaker 4: person on the street probably thinks of mountain lions as

2251
01:50:02,400 --> 01:50:06,360
Speaker 4: like this rare, inherently threatened thing because they don't see them, right,

2252
01:50:06,439 --> 01:50:09,960
Speaker 4: It's not standing in some agfield as they blow by

2253
01:50:10,040 --> 01:50:10,760
Speaker 4: on the interstate.

2254
01:50:11,320 --> 01:50:13,799
Speaker 3: And so I think like that is probably a big.

2255
01:50:13,640 --> 01:50:16,879
Speaker 4: Challenge in the educational components, Like these animals are thriving

2256
01:50:17,479 --> 01:50:21,640
Speaker 4: over the past, however many decades, and it's especially you know,

2257
01:50:22,160 --> 01:50:24,639
Speaker 4: impactful when you consider all the habitat that's been lost

2258
01:50:24,640 --> 01:50:26,599
Speaker 4: as the front range is grown and all this stuff.

2259
01:50:26,640 --> 01:50:30,880
Speaker 4: Like the average person on the street, I wonder did

2260
01:50:30,920 --> 01:50:34,400
Speaker 4: they even know like the story of mountain lions in Colorado,

2261
01:50:34,400 --> 01:50:35,120
Speaker 4: I'd wager or not.

2262
01:50:35,360 --> 01:50:37,719
Speaker 8: No. And to that point, I mean before the wolf

2263
01:50:37,760 --> 01:50:40,080
Speaker 8: issue came up, when when the wolf proponents went out

2264
01:50:40,120 --> 01:50:42,080
Speaker 8: and asked and they've got a video on their website,

2265
01:50:42,120 --> 01:50:44,000
Speaker 8: they went out and asked people about do we have

2266
01:50:44,000 --> 01:50:47,040
Speaker 8: wolves in Colorado? And overwhelming like people like yeah, I

2267
01:50:47,080 --> 01:50:50,559
Speaker 8: think so, don't we not sure? Yeah? Well i'd like to.

2268
01:50:50,760 --> 01:50:54,000
Speaker 8: I mean, so they were priming the pump for that ignorance.

2269
01:50:54,360 --> 01:50:57,160
Speaker 8: It's not stupidy, it's just ignorance. And I think it's

2270
01:50:57,160 --> 01:50:57,720
Speaker 8: on the mountain lion.

2271
01:50:57,840 --> 01:50:59,800
Speaker 3: I became a trick question because some had just shown

2272
01:50:59,880 --> 01:51:00,639
Speaker 3: up exactly.

2273
01:51:00,800 --> 01:51:03,320
Speaker 8: Yeah, you know, it's like, but I think, I think

2274
01:51:03,560 --> 01:51:08,480
Speaker 8: that trying to convince people of your of your perspectives

2275
01:51:09,040 --> 01:51:13,200
Speaker 8: from the misinformation is the way that most of our

2276
01:51:13,240 --> 01:51:15,880
Speaker 8: losses have happened around the country when it comes to wildlife.

2277
01:51:16,000 --> 01:51:18,200
Speaker 8: I mean, you just like you said, you just you

2278
01:51:18,280 --> 01:51:21,240
Speaker 8: create this this fake story out there, and you say

2279
01:51:21,280 --> 01:51:24,160
Speaker 8: it enough and pretty much people start to believe it.

2280
01:51:24,200 --> 01:51:29,960
Speaker 8: But but and I want to cover this because our

2281
01:51:30,080 --> 01:51:32,960
Speaker 8: organizations that were all members of that we support that

2282
01:51:33,080 --> 01:51:34,920
Speaker 8: were that, you know, we get the magazines on a

2283
01:51:34,920 --> 01:51:38,519
Speaker 8: regular basis, all the academ groups, they do the yeoman's work.

2284
01:51:38,560 --> 01:51:41,040
Speaker 8: I've said this over and over. I'm partners with them,

2285
01:51:41,520 --> 01:51:43,160
Speaker 8: but they haven't done a very damn good job for

2286
01:51:43,200 --> 01:51:45,160
Speaker 8: the last forty years of talking to the general public.

2287
01:51:45,479 --> 01:51:47,840
Speaker 8: They talk to the sportsman community, they talk to the

2288
01:51:48,000 --> 01:51:52,080
Speaker 8: to the agriculture community. Because they work close close, hand

2289
01:51:52,160 --> 01:51:54,760
Speaker 8: in hand with them. We need to start advertising. We

2290
01:51:54,800 --> 01:51:57,680
Speaker 8: need to start talking regularly to the general public to

2291
01:51:57,760 --> 01:52:01,519
Speaker 8: tell the conservation story and making sure that you know,

2292
01:52:01,560 --> 01:52:04,320
Speaker 8: I mean, every Christmas time everybody sees the ASPCA and

2293
01:52:04,360 --> 01:52:06,559
Speaker 8: the Humane Society commercials and stuff that are out there.

2294
01:52:06,720 --> 01:52:09,160
Speaker 8: Not all that money goes to, you know, helping the

2295
01:52:09,160 --> 01:52:12,479
Speaker 8: little puppies and the kittens. I mean, that's an advertising employee.

2296
01:52:13,400 --> 01:52:16,639
Speaker 3: HSUS and local humane societies are two different things.

2297
01:52:16,720 --> 01:52:19,880
Speaker 9: For a while, there were those hug a Hunter campaigns.

2298
01:52:21,360 --> 01:52:23,439
Speaker 9: It seems like those things kind of died out.

2299
01:52:23,520 --> 01:52:26,880
Speaker 8: We're doing the campaign that you talk about. I'm the

2300
01:52:26,960 --> 01:52:29,360
Speaker 8: chair of the Wildlife Council and I've been on that

2301
01:52:29,439 --> 01:52:33,120
Speaker 8: for seven years. It started in nineteen ninety eight, and

2302
01:52:32,720 --> 01:52:37,400
Speaker 8: that changes and morphs into something regularly to differ with

2303
01:52:37,520 --> 01:52:40,920
Speaker 8: public perception. Because your demographics that you were talking to

2304
01:52:41,000 --> 01:52:43,360
Speaker 8: between eighteen and thirty four, if you did that twenty

2305
01:52:43,439 --> 01:52:45,599
Speaker 8: years ago, they were you know, now they're fifty five

2306
01:52:45,680 --> 01:52:47,920
Speaker 8: or whatever the hell it is. So they have different

2307
01:52:48,880 --> 01:52:52,120
Speaker 8: perspectives and perceptions, so they need to be educated differently.

2308
01:52:52,160 --> 01:52:53,920
Speaker 8: But hopefully you did a good enough job on that

2309
01:52:54,040 --> 01:52:56,360
Speaker 8: target audience. But then you've got so many of the

2310
01:52:56,360 --> 01:52:58,720
Speaker 8: other ones that are coming in underneath of that that

2311
01:52:58,760 --> 01:53:02,960
Speaker 8: they're being able to name wolves, you know, and and

2312
01:53:03,040 --> 01:53:08,280
Speaker 8: hopefully somebody didn't kill you know, Margaret the wolf because

2313
01:53:08,280 --> 01:53:10,320
Speaker 8: they're going to be bastardized for it. Well, then those

2314
01:53:10,400 --> 01:53:14,040
Speaker 8: kids get a bad perception on wolf management because it

2315
01:53:14,120 --> 01:53:16,960
Speaker 8: didn't work, and it's the wolf that they named. Well,

2316
01:53:16,960 --> 01:53:18,639
Speaker 8: if they start doing that with mountain wins and deer

2317
01:53:18,640 --> 01:53:19,920
Speaker 8: and elk and everything else. I mean, why do you

2318
01:53:19,960 --> 01:53:22,080
Speaker 8: think Bambi is such a bad deal? You know, it's

2319
01:53:22,080 --> 01:53:24,439
Speaker 8: because we all grew up and you know, Bambi's dad

2320
01:53:24,479 --> 01:53:24,960
Speaker 8: got killed.

2321
01:53:25,040 --> 01:53:27,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, you get in the name and bus people

2322
01:53:27,800 --> 01:53:29,120
Speaker 3: name them because they want to get.

2323
01:53:29,000 --> 01:53:31,520
Speaker 8: Them exactly, you know, exactly.

2324
01:53:32,000 --> 01:53:37,000
Speaker 3: You know, if a buck's got a name, you watch that.

2325
01:53:38,280 --> 01:53:39,960
Speaker 3: I like hug of Houndsman, that'd be a good little

2326
01:53:40,000 --> 01:53:41,559
Speaker 3: campaign for Yannie. I'll go give Yanni.

2327
01:53:41,760 --> 01:53:43,200
Speaker 5: Was that campaign successful?

2328
01:53:43,640 --> 01:53:47,280
Speaker 8: That campaign was extremely successful. And the reason being is

2329
01:53:47,320 --> 01:53:49,280
Speaker 8: because they didn't talk to us in this room. They

2330
01:53:49,360 --> 01:53:52,000
Speaker 8: talked to the general public. That's why it was so successful.

2331
01:53:52,160 --> 01:53:54,080
Speaker 8: I mean, I joked about it. The reason I got

2332
01:53:54,120 --> 01:53:56,720
Speaker 8: on is as the counsel and I applied because they

2333
01:53:56,720 --> 01:53:59,800
Speaker 8: came up with a talking deer campaign and I thought, Okay,

2334
01:54:00,000 --> 01:54:04,000
Speaker 8: it's just not the way that we needed. Yeah yeah,

2335
01:54:04,800 --> 01:54:06,799
Speaker 8: just like the talking bass on the wall or something.

2336
01:54:07,800 --> 01:54:09,920
Speaker 8: But the reason I got involved because I thought that

2337
01:54:09,920 --> 01:54:12,120
Speaker 8: that wasn't the right way to go, and they the

2338
01:54:12,200 --> 01:54:15,720
Speaker 8: council had that that one campaign that one year, but

2339
01:54:15,880 --> 01:54:19,360
Speaker 8: the hug a hunter deal that resonated with the people

2340
01:54:19,680 --> 01:54:22,080
Speaker 8: that were out in the field that didn't hunt because

2341
01:54:22,320 --> 01:54:24,599
Speaker 8: they understood where some of that money was coming from,

2342
01:54:24,680 --> 01:54:26,680
Speaker 8: so they could actually know that wildlife was taking care

2343
01:54:26,720 --> 01:54:29,840
Speaker 8: of appropriately and that it was on the landscape. Now

2344
01:54:29,880 --> 01:54:33,040
Speaker 8: that we've got a different demographic, our audience has changed.

2345
01:54:33,240 --> 01:54:35,920
Speaker 8: We have a Science in the Wild campaign that's going

2346
01:54:35,960 --> 01:54:38,400
Speaker 8: on right now. It started November fifteenth and it's going

2347
01:54:38,440 --> 01:54:41,640
Speaker 8: all the way through this next June. But it is

2348
01:54:41,680 --> 01:54:44,560
Speaker 8: I mean, you put you put thirty different people in line,

2349
01:54:44,960 --> 01:54:46,840
Speaker 8: and you put a game boarden or somebody with a

2350
01:54:46,880 --> 01:54:48,480
Speaker 8: badge and an emblem and a gun in the truck

2351
01:54:48,520 --> 01:54:49,720
Speaker 8: with a badge on it, and you say, who do

2352
01:54:49,760 --> 01:54:52,080
Speaker 8: you trust to manage your wildlife? People point to the

2353
01:54:52,080 --> 01:54:56,280
Speaker 8: game boarding. They don't point to the pink haired nosering extremist.

2354
01:54:56,760 --> 01:54:58,960
Speaker 8: You know, they don't point to me or you because

2355
01:54:59,000 --> 01:55:02,040
Speaker 8: we're standing there doing They want the expert taking care

2356
01:55:02,040 --> 01:55:04,800
Speaker 8: of it. And I think pushing that narrative in that

2357
01:55:04,880 --> 01:55:08,240
Speaker 8: tone resonates with the target audience enough to where they go,

2358
01:55:08,360 --> 01:55:13,000
Speaker 8: I want experts to do my work, and I'm confident

2359
01:55:13,040 --> 01:55:15,520
Speaker 8: that when November fifth comes along with our campaign that

2360
01:55:15,520 --> 01:55:17,640
Speaker 8: we're going to have to do in August, September, and October,

2361
01:55:18,360 --> 01:55:20,960
Speaker 8: I'm confident that the people will enough of the people

2362
01:55:21,000 --> 01:55:23,960
Speaker 8: will make it the right decision because they care about

2363
01:55:24,040 --> 01:55:27,360
Speaker 8: Colorado's wildlife. But you know, people all around the country

2364
01:55:27,680 --> 01:55:30,360
Speaker 8: better pay attention as well, because you've got to figure

2365
01:55:30,360 --> 01:55:33,080
Speaker 8: out a way to build up your armament, build up

2366
01:55:33,080 --> 01:55:35,280
Speaker 8: your war chest, and make sure that you prepare for

2367
01:55:35,320 --> 01:55:39,240
Speaker 8: the inevitable, because, like you mentioned, Steve, I mean, we're

2368
01:55:39,280 --> 01:55:42,040
Speaker 8: not singular. It goes to every state in some capacity,

2369
01:55:42,360 --> 01:55:45,120
Speaker 8: you know. I mean it might be crayfish, might be muskrats,

2370
01:55:45,320 --> 01:55:48,240
Speaker 8: might be whatever. But it's going wherever they want to

2371
01:55:48,280 --> 01:55:50,760
Speaker 8: take it that they feel the path of least resistance

2372
01:55:50,800 --> 01:55:52,040
Speaker 8: and they feel a chink in the armor.

2373
01:55:52,520 --> 01:55:57,520
Speaker 3: So at a point, how many months is November away,

2374
01:55:57,520 --> 01:56:02,600
Speaker 3: I don't know, eight in eight months, they'll come down

2375
01:56:02,640 --> 01:56:05,000
Speaker 3: to voting. Right now, you made it. I said, what

2376
01:56:05,000 --> 01:56:08,720
Speaker 3: can people do? And you said, you know, jokingly but truthfully,

2377
01:56:09,040 --> 01:56:11,640
Speaker 3: any money? Yeah, and where does the money need to go?

2378
01:56:11,720 --> 01:56:13,320
Speaker 8: So the money needs to go? You can go on

2379
01:56:13,360 --> 01:56:16,000
Speaker 8: to the website and Save the Hunt Colorado dot com

2380
01:56:16,440 --> 01:56:18,760
Speaker 8: and there's a couple different options there that you can

2381
01:56:18,800 --> 01:56:22,120
Speaker 8: participate in. The reason that we need the funding is

2382
01:56:22,160 --> 01:56:26,000
Speaker 8: because the extremist have an endless amount of funding to

2383
01:56:26,000 --> 01:56:28,080
Speaker 8: do a variety of different things. They're fighting, you know,

2384
01:56:28,120 --> 01:56:31,800
Speaker 8: twenty things in twenty different states at different levels. We

2385
01:56:31,880 --> 01:56:33,880
Speaker 8: need to be able to go punch for punch, tit

2386
01:56:33,960 --> 01:56:38,240
Speaker 8: for tat with them on advertising because we're both talking

2387
01:56:38,440 --> 01:56:40,800
Speaker 8: to the same audience. They're trying to get that middle

2388
01:56:40,800 --> 01:56:42,520
Speaker 8: of the road eighty percent. We're trying to get the

2389
01:56:42,520 --> 01:56:44,680
Speaker 8: middle of the road eighty percent. We're going to sway

2390
01:56:44,680 --> 01:56:46,720
Speaker 8: some and they're going to sway some. But look how

2391
01:56:46,800 --> 01:56:49,800
Speaker 8: close to wolf deal was at fifty one to forty nine.

2392
01:56:50,640 --> 01:56:54,360
Speaker 8: If we're anywhere in that ballpark, we're gonna win. But

2393
01:56:54,400 --> 01:56:56,959
Speaker 8: we have to be able to advertise to that audience

2394
01:56:57,200 --> 01:57:00,960
Speaker 8: and get them to understand first about the science, second

2395
01:57:01,000 --> 01:57:04,000
Speaker 8: about the experts that actually provide the science, and third

2396
01:57:04,080 --> 01:57:07,680
Speaker 8: how it actually affects those individuals, just for they so

2397
01:57:07,720 --> 01:57:11,440
Speaker 8: they know that they have sustainable wildlife populations on the landscape.

2398
01:57:11,560 --> 01:57:13,640
Speaker 8: Everybody likes to see deer and elk, Everybody likes to

2399
01:57:13,640 --> 01:57:16,760
Speaker 8: see bighorn sheep. You know that's you know I did

2400
01:57:16,760 --> 01:57:19,480
Speaker 8: to deal with Shane Mahoney, and Shane says one of

2401
01:57:19,520 --> 01:57:21,720
Speaker 8: the biggest things that all recreationists do is when they

2402
01:57:21,760 --> 01:57:24,960
Speaker 8: go out to recreate rock climb without messing up the

2403
01:57:25,040 --> 01:57:28,280
Speaker 8: raptor's nest and everything, killing everyone, killing every one of them.

2404
01:57:28,680 --> 01:57:31,080
Speaker 8: But he said, everybody that goes out and they see wildlife,

2405
01:57:31,360 --> 01:57:32,720
Speaker 8: the first thing they do is they come home and

2406
01:57:32,720 --> 01:57:35,320
Speaker 8: tell people about the wildlife they saw. They didn't automatically

2407
01:57:35,320 --> 01:57:37,800
Speaker 8: start telling them about their rock climbing incident or their

2408
01:57:37,960 --> 01:57:40,040
Speaker 8: mountain bike rack or whatever, unless they were you know,

2409
01:57:40,320 --> 01:57:43,240
Speaker 8: bunnged up or something. But they tell them about the wildlife.

2410
01:57:43,240 --> 01:57:45,240
Speaker 8: They tell them about I saw a mountainlon or I

2411
01:57:45,280 --> 01:57:47,360
Speaker 8: heard a wolf, or I saw a moose, or I

2412
01:57:47,360 --> 01:57:51,000
Speaker 8: saw a coyote eat rabbit. Because because we connect with nature,

2413
01:57:52,440 --> 01:57:55,880
Speaker 8: once people understand how that connection affects them and where

2414
01:57:55,880 --> 01:57:59,120
Speaker 8: it comes from, they're more likely to support the science

2415
01:57:59,200 --> 01:58:02,040
Speaker 8: and follow the science and follow the component that has

2416
01:58:02,080 --> 01:58:04,120
Speaker 8: been able to fuel and fund that whole program for

2417
01:58:04,160 --> 01:58:06,120
Speaker 8: the last you know, one hundred and twenty five years.

2418
01:58:07,160 --> 01:58:09,440
Speaker 8: So if they go to save the hunt coloradder dot com,

2419
01:58:09,440 --> 01:58:12,480
Speaker 8: they can contribute. There's also the initiatives that are on

2420
01:58:12,520 --> 01:58:15,840
Speaker 8: the website that they can look at. Initiative ninety one

2421
01:58:15,920 --> 01:58:17,480
Speaker 8: is the one that we're dealing with, even though that's

2422
01:58:17,480 --> 01:58:19,720
Speaker 8: not going to be the final initiative. They'll change the

2423
01:58:19,800 --> 01:58:21,560
Speaker 8: number when they get through the process to put it

2424
01:58:21,600 --> 01:58:24,880
Speaker 8: on the ballot. But we want people to educate themselves

2425
01:58:25,080 --> 01:58:28,280
Speaker 8: and educate their peers and congregation and coworkers and everybody,

2426
01:58:28,440 --> 01:58:31,880
Speaker 8: because without education, we're no better as far as the

2427
01:58:31,920 --> 01:58:35,600
Speaker 8: ignorance on the landscape as well. You know, Yannie talked

2428
01:58:35,600 --> 01:58:41,000
Speaker 8: about the hound part of it. Read the initiatively specifically

2429
01:58:41,000 --> 01:58:43,480
Speaker 8: wants to take hound hunting out along with mountain lion hunting.

2430
01:58:43,520 --> 01:58:48,480
Speaker 8: But they talk about electronic ecollers, training callers. They testified

2431
01:58:48,560 --> 01:58:50,760
Speaker 8: during their Supreme Court or their title Board hearings. Their

2432
01:58:50,800 --> 01:58:52,840
Speaker 8: attorney did that, we don't think you should hunt with

2433
01:58:52,920 --> 01:58:56,600
Speaker 8: any dog period. Read the language in there. If they

2434
01:58:56,640 --> 01:58:59,960
Speaker 8: set that as statutory language, what about upland bird dogs,

2435
01:59:00,040 --> 01:59:02,640
Speaker 8: what about waterfowl dogs, what about coon dogs? I mean,

2436
01:59:02,840 --> 01:59:04,960
Speaker 8: guys are starting to pay attention because they read what

2437
01:59:05,040 --> 01:59:07,600
Speaker 8: it says, not what somebody interprets it. And it's like, well,

2438
01:59:08,720 --> 01:59:10,440
Speaker 8: it doesn't say mountain lion dogs.

2439
01:59:10,760 --> 01:59:12,800
Speaker 3: Because a view into their mindset.

2440
01:59:12,440 --> 01:59:16,320
Speaker 8: Exactly and you can understand where people should really pay

2441
01:59:16,480 --> 01:59:21,600
Speaker 8: close attention. I did a presentation on Saturday to the

2442
01:59:21,640 --> 01:59:25,280
Speaker 8: Fremont Cattleman's Association in Colorado, and I said that, and

2443
01:59:25,320 --> 01:59:27,120
Speaker 8: one guy said, well, wait a minute, wait a minute,

2444
01:59:27,480 --> 01:59:30,600
Speaker 8: does that include stock dogs? That's one right now, it's

2445
01:59:30,640 --> 01:59:33,000
Speaker 8: not mentioned in here. But why couldn't you turn around

2446
01:59:33,000 --> 01:59:34,760
Speaker 8: and go to an animal cruelty deal because you want

2447
01:59:34,800 --> 01:59:37,760
Speaker 8: to use electronic training devices or collars on your dogs.

2448
01:59:38,560 --> 01:59:41,520
Speaker 8: So it's people need to read into the intent of

2449
01:59:41,560 --> 01:59:44,360
Speaker 8: what they're trying to accomplish with this. They need to

2450
01:59:44,480 --> 01:59:47,640
Speaker 8: understand that it's not singular. They need to understand you

2451
01:59:47,640 --> 01:59:49,720
Speaker 8: could the way it's written, you could take bobcats and

2452
01:59:49,720 --> 01:59:51,960
Speaker 8: mountain lions out and put any other species in. But

2453
01:59:52,000 --> 01:59:54,680
Speaker 8: then look at the other components of that. Educate yourself.

2454
01:59:55,200 --> 01:59:58,920
Speaker 8: Because these guys are so well structured and their plans

2455
01:59:58,920 --> 02:00:03,120
Speaker 8: are so well formulated that you know they're looking at

2456
02:00:03,120 --> 02:00:06,560
Speaker 8: New Mexico, they're looking at Arizona, they're looking at Nevada,

2457
02:00:07,120 --> 02:00:12,360
Speaker 8: because if they're successful in Colorado, they don't have to

2458
02:00:12,400 --> 02:00:15,040
Speaker 8: go to Colorado again unless it's on another species. So

2459
02:00:15,080 --> 02:00:16,960
Speaker 8: they go to the next state and they start to

2460
02:00:16,960 --> 02:00:19,800
Speaker 8: build that momentum with the legislators, then the message starts

2461
02:00:19,800 --> 02:00:22,240
Speaker 8: to resonate well with the general public, and pretty soon

2462
02:00:22,280 --> 02:00:24,640
Speaker 8: the lies just take over, like locus on the cornfield.

2463
02:00:26,200 --> 02:00:30,040
Speaker 5: Well, I think you know one thing is we kind

2464
02:00:30,040 --> 02:00:33,680
Speaker 5: of start to wrap up here. Broad and diverse coalitions

2465
02:00:34,120 --> 02:00:37,440
Speaker 5: are what really win these fights, right, So as we

2466
02:00:37,640 --> 02:00:40,880
Speaker 5: narrow way down right, we already discussed like if you're

2467
02:00:41,280 --> 02:00:45,160
Speaker 5: the hound hunter representing the hound hunters groups and you're

2468
02:00:45,200 --> 02:00:49,800
Speaker 5: trying to fight a major political campaign like this, you're

2469
02:00:49,920 --> 02:00:53,120
Speaker 5: you're just you're outnumbered, you don't have as much of

2470
02:00:53,160 --> 02:01:00,720
Speaker 5: a voice. So a broad, diverse coalition gains your your

2471
02:01:00,880 --> 02:01:04,960
Speaker 5: your voice, right yeah, and your public awareness of the issue.

2472
02:01:05,400 --> 02:01:08,480
Speaker 5: So I will tell you, like, if you have pink

2473
02:01:08,520 --> 02:01:10,360
Speaker 5: hair and a nos ran, if you're an old lady

2474
02:01:10,400 --> 02:01:16,440
Speaker 5: at Whole Foods, we want you damn straight. We want you.

2475
02:01:16,680 --> 02:01:19,480
Speaker 5: Like if you like going outside and you're talking like

2476
02:01:19,520 --> 02:01:22,120
Speaker 5: Shae Mahoney says, you went out and did your thing,

2477
02:01:22,160 --> 02:01:24,360
Speaker 5: and you like talking about that wildlife that's out there,

2478
02:01:24,640 --> 02:01:27,640
Speaker 5: you got to understand that this boring story that CPW

2479
02:01:27,800 --> 02:01:31,120
Speaker 5: tells of like no major like oh my god, we

2480
02:01:31,200 --> 02:01:33,480
Speaker 5: had to bring something back from the brink right, that's

2481
02:01:33,480 --> 02:01:37,240
Speaker 5: because they're out there doing their jobs right, And like

2482
02:01:37,680 --> 02:01:42,240
Speaker 5: good conservation stories come from catastrophic failures like crash of

2483
02:01:42,320 --> 02:01:45,360
Speaker 5: duck numbers. Right, we talk about ducks all the time.

2484
02:01:45,480 --> 02:01:47,320
Speaker 5: Is this huge win, But it's because we damn near

2485
02:01:47,400 --> 02:01:51,080
Speaker 5: kill them all Right, We're talking these stories about grizzly bears,

2486
02:01:51,440 --> 02:01:55,280
Speaker 5: but all that stuff in between, it's like it's been

2487
02:01:55,400 --> 02:02:00,480
Speaker 5: a boring story because we've been winning, we've been made maintaining,

2488
02:02:00,520 --> 02:02:04,600
Speaker 5: we're keeping that diversity of habitat. So you need to

2489
02:02:04,920 --> 02:02:07,200
Speaker 5: understand that and appreciate it. We need to get more

2490
02:02:07,200 --> 02:02:10,360
Speaker 5: diverse and more broad and talk to these groups that

2491
02:02:10,800 --> 02:02:13,160
Speaker 5: you know, at first blush don't align with us. So

2492
02:02:13,800 --> 02:02:18,040
Speaker 5: like hab if you're a mountain biker, rock climber, backcountry skier,

2493
02:02:19,200 --> 02:02:23,240
Speaker 5: all of these things can be regulated to death, and

2494
02:02:23,760 --> 02:02:28,360
Speaker 5: little fights like this have broad implications. Right, So broad.

2495
02:02:28,480 --> 02:02:33,720
Speaker 8: Government oversight is one thing. Extreme oversight from the general

2496
02:02:34,560 --> 02:02:37,080
Speaker 8: public to some degree, and I'm talking a very minute

2497
02:02:37,200 --> 02:02:40,960
Speaker 8: section of the general public. That extremism is what's going

2498
02:02:41,000 --> 02:02:43,520
Speaker 8: to alter so many different things that people look at

2499
02:02:43,520 --> 02:02:46,480
Speaker 8: when it comes to outdoor recreation and conservation and wildlife management.

2500
02:02:46,800 --> 02:02:50,400
Speaker 8: Because there's a small group that has the squeaky wheel

2501
02:02:51,120 --> 02:02:54,600
Speaker 8: and they they're well funded, and the majority of our

2502
02:02:54,640 --> 02:02:57,120
Speaker 8: community just wants to go hunt. We just want to

2503
02:02:57,160 --> 02:02:58,880
Speaker 8: turn around and go scout and check our gain cameras

2504
02:02:58,880 --> 02:03:00,560
Speaker 8: and get ready for season and do well. I mean,

2505
02:03:02,080 --> 02:03:05,680
Speaker 8: what we're talking about right now is the least entertaining

2506
02:03:05,840 --> 02:03:09,240
Speaker 8: component of your of your deal, your your dog deal,

2507
02:03:09,280 --> 02:03:12,240
Speaker 8: the story you're l hunt. Nobody wants to listen to

2508
02:03:12,280 --> 02:03:14,360
Speaker 8: this crap, but they have to listen to it if

2509
02:03:14,360 --> 02:03:16,040
Speaker 8: they expect to be able to turn around and have

2510
02:03:16,080 --> 02:03:18,040
Speaker 8: the story that you had and have the story that

2511
02:03:18,080 --> 02:03:20,080
Speaker 8: you have, and to be able to do that what

2512
02:03:20,160 --> 02:03:22,920
Speaker 8: you did, not what you did. But when I'm not

2513
02:03:23,000 --> 02:03:24,640
Speaker 8: that big, yeah, not that big, they go back to

2514
02:03:24,720 --> 02:03:28,240
Speaker 8: the spike. We're eating forty years of spike hunting. And

2515
02:03:28,280 --> 02:03:32,120
Speaker 8: then but if we want to actually engage in that conversation,

2516
02:03:32,240 --> 02:03:34,680
Speaker 8: there has to be a component of buy in from

2517
02:03:34,720 --> 02:03:37,000
Speaker 8: the general public. And I think that the public is

2518
02:03:37,040 --> 02:03:39,880
Speaker 8: there and wants to be educated. We were seeing that

2519
02:03:39,960 --> 02:03:41,600
Speaker 8: on this level, the people that are reaching out at

2520
02:03:41,640 --> 02:03:44,480
Speaker 8: so many different levels. I mean, I can't tell you

2521
02:03:44,520 --> 02:03:46,120
Speaker 8: how many people just walk up to you and go,

2522
02:03:46,360 --> 02:03:48,760
Speaker 8: hey I heard or hey I saw you or Hey,

2523
02:03:48,800 --> 02:03:51,240
Speaker 8: I was told and they want to be They want

2524
02:03:51,240 --> 02:03:52,640
Speaker 8: to be part of the solution. They want to be

2525
02:03:52,720 --> 02:03:55,720
Speaker 8: part of the victory, not part of the problem. Hit

2526
02:03:55,760 --> 02:03:57,960
Speaker 8: them again with where to go? Okay, save the hunt

2527
02:03:57,960 --> 02:04:00,160
Speaker 8: Colorado dot com. There's a couple of different upper who

2528
02:04:00,200 --> 02:04:02,600
Speaker 8: need is there. You can actually you can actually get

2529
02:04:02,640 --> 02:04:06,240
Speaker 8: into a couple of different raffles that SCI is running

2530
02:04:06,600 --> 02:04:08,800
Speaker 8: to help fund this measure.

2531
02:04:08,240 --> 02:04:10,120
Speaker 3: Giving any guns out. He can get a better working gun.

2532
02:04:10,400 --> 02:04:13,040
Speaker 8: Yeah, there is actually a gunworks. Gun is on there

2533
02:04:13,600 --> 02:04:17,360
Speaker 8: to talk about shoes. So you can give me your

2534
02:04:17,360 --> 02:04:22,320
Speaker 8: fifty dollars. Now, you can go on there, you can donate.

2535
02:04:22,440 --> 02:04:23,960
Speaker 8: You can look at everything that we're doing as far

2536
02:04:23,960 --> 02:04:26,480
Speaker 8: as videos and stuff. You can go on Instagram and

2537
02:04:26,520 --> 02:04:30,120
Speaker 8: Facebook and find us cowm is on Instagram and call

2538
02:04:30,240 --> 02:04:32,960
Speaker 8: Ruddings for Responsible Wilach Management on Facebook. I do want

2539
02:04:32,960 --> 02:04:35,320
Speaker 8: to mention something. If you got time because of the

2540
02:04:35,400 --> 02:04:37,440
Speaker 8: lies and deceit, I'm going to read you this and

2541
02:04:37,480 --> 02:04:39,480
Speaker 8: I want you guys to get me your impression. This

2542
02:04:39,560 --> 02:04:43,280
Speaker 8: is the ballot title for Denver this year, just for

2543
02:04:43,320 --> 02:04:45,880
Speaker 8: the city and county voters of Dinner. It says, shall

2544
02:04:45,880 --> 02:04:48,240
Speaker 8: the voters of the City and County of Denver adopted

2545
02:04:48,240 --> 02:04:51,440
Speaker 8: an Ordinance concerning the Prohibition of fur Products and in

2546
02:04:51,480 --> 02:04:54,920
Speaker 8: conjunction beginning of July first to twenty twenty five, prohibiting

2547
02:04:54,960 --> 02:04:59,240
Speaker 8: the manufacturer, distribution, display, sale, or trade of certain animal

2548
02:04:59,240 --> 02:05:03,520
Speaker 8: fur products in the city and providing limited exceptions to

2549
02:05:03,600 --> 02:05:09,000
Speaker 8: the prohibition. They're talking about leather, two, No, but they're

2550
02:05:09,000 --> 02:05:12,720
Speaker 8: talking about beaver felt cowboy hats. They're talking about fly

2551
02:05:12,800 --> 02:05:16,040
Speaker 8: fishing material and yeah, yeah.

2552
02:05:16,080 --> 02:05:17,560
Speaker 2: So when I asked about leather, I was just being

2553
02:05:17,600 --> 02:05:20,080
Speaker 2: cute because somehow, once take the fur off, everybody's cool

2554
02:05:20,080 --> 02:05:20,240
Speaker 2: with it.

2555
02:05:20,280 --> 02:05:23,200
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, but you start. When you start, it doesn't

2556
02:05:23,200 --> 02:05:25,840
Speaker 8: say that until you read it in the measure. This

2557
02:05:25,920 --> 02:05:28,040
Speaker 8: is what they'll vote on for the title. You read

2558
02:05:28,080 --> 02:05:29,560
Speaker 8: it in the measure and you go, what do you

2559
02:05:29,600 --> 02:05:31,240
Speaker 8: mean in Denver? You can't buy a cowboy?

2560
02:05:31,360 --> 02:05:32,840
Speaker 3: It's the death of the el caricatus.

2561
02:05:33,080 --> 02:05:35,120
Speaker 8: Yeah, you know, I mean, look at all the mank

2562
02:05:35,160 --> 02:05:37,000
Speaker 8: and the beaver stuff that's put on the on the

2563
02:05:37,000 --> 02:05:39,320
Speaker 8: fly fishing lures and on the fishing lures and stuff.

2564
02:05:39,880 --> 02:05:42,200
Speaker 8: You start, you start putting in. There's a there's a

2565
02:05:42,240 --> 02:05:45,800
Speaker 8: component into that deal that they they made exceptions or

2566
02:05:45,840 --> 02:05:48,640
Speaker 8: exemptions because they did they wanted to be uh hit

2567
02:05:49,240 --> 02:05:54,400
Speaker 8: politically correct. So Native Americans can sell their artwork and

2568
02:05:54,440 --> 02:05:58,520
Speaker 8: their crafts in the city of Denver, but you have

2569
02:05:58,600 --> 02:06:02,080
Speaker 8: to be white or non to be able to buy it. Well,

2570
02:06:02,080 --> 02:06:04,280
Speaker 8: how many times did the Denver March Powell or the

2571
02:06:04,280 --> 02:06:07,240
Speaker 8: Indian market. Do you see that Native Americans are selling

2572
02:06:07,280 --> 02:06:10,040
Speaker 8: to Native Americans? Maybe a little bit, But if you

2573
02:06:10,240 --> 02:06:11,640
Speaker 8: if you're white and you want to go there, you

2574
02:06:11,680 --> 02:06:13,760
Speaker 8: can't buy it because it says you have to be

2575
02:06:13,800 --> 02:06:16,320
Speaker 8: Indigenous to be able to do it. They are feeding

2576
02:06:16,400 --> 02:06:19,000
Speaker 8: off of the lies and deceit of the general public

2577
02:06:19,240 --> 02:06:22,080
Speaker 8: on that the Slaughterhouse Band, the Mountain Lion and bobcat Ban.

2578
02:06:22,680 --> 02:06:24,680
Speaker 8: And I hope that the general public wakes up, not

2579
02:06:24,720 --> 02:06:26,800
Speaker 8: just in Colorado, but these things go on all around

2580
02:06:26,800 --> 02:06:29,400
Speaker 8: the country and people go, well, oh, that happened in Cleveland,

2581
02:06:29,480 --> 02:06:31,560
Speaker 8: or that happened in Dallas or that because it didn't

2582
02:06:31,600 --> 02:06:34,680
Speaker 8: affect them. It's happening everywhere. And we have to figure

2583
02:06:34,680 --> 02:06:37,560
Speaker 8: out a way to plant our flag draw line in

2584
02:06:37,600 --> 02:06:41,040
Speaker 8: the sand and say, if the science says that we shouldn't,

2585
02:06:41,720 --> 02:06:44,160
Speaker 8: then maybe that's what we should look at, especially from

2586
02:06:44,160 --> 02:06:48,040
Speaker 8: a conservation standpoint. But I mean, you guys have the

2587
02:06:48,080 --> 02:06:53,960
Speaker 8: ability to give a synopsis, a synthesize things that are

2588
02:06:54,000 --> 02:06:56,480
Speaker 8: going on in the landscape. I'd encourage people to reach

2589
02:06:56,520 --> 02:06:58,760
Speaker 8: out at every level to say, hey, there's something going

2590
02:06:58,800 --> 02:07:01,440
Speaker 8: on in Washington, DC, or something going on in Sacramento,

2591
02:07:01,640 --> 02:07:05,720
Speaker 8: because the average person doesn't know, and I'm not trying to,

2592
02:07:05,840 --> 02:07:09,080
Speaker 8: you know, jump your inbox up. You're probably already have

2593
02:07:09,160 --> 02:07:13,040
Speaker 8: that enough as it is. But you know, sorry, you're in.

2594
02:07:14,480 --> 02:07:18,240
Speaker 8: But no, we we appreciate the opportunity to kind of

2595
02:07:18,240 --> 02:07:20,720
Speaker 8: bring a little bit of a message to light because

2596
02:07:20,720 --> 02:07:23,040
Speaker 8: it's something serious enough in Colorado that if we fall

2597
02:07:23,160 --> 02:07:25,040
Speaker 8: in Colorado this year, you're going to see a lot

2598
02:07:25,080 --> 02:07:27,640
Speaker 8: of other things happen behind this because it's easy to

2599
02:07:27,680 --> 02:07:30,280
Speaker 8: turn around and take their momentum momentum and move it

2600
02:07:30,320 --> 02:07:31,040
Speaker 8: to the next level.

2601
02:07:31,600 --> 02:07:34,120
Speaker 3: Well, man, I appreciate you coming on, Appreciate the time,

2602
02:07:34,440 --> 02:07:36,160
Speaker 3: Tell the site, tell where to go one more time.

2603
02:07:36,280 --> 02:07:38,840
Speaker 8: Save the hunt Colorado dot com. It's the Colorado's for

2604
02:07:39,000 --> 02:07:41,920
Speaker 8: Responsible Wildlife Management and you can get a lot of

2605
02:07:41,960 --> 02:07:44,560
Speaker 8: information on there. But if they got if they have wishes,

2606
02:07:44,600 --> 02:07:46,640
Speaker 8: once and desires, they could reach out and contact us

2607
02:07:46,640 --> 02:07:47,960
Speaker 8: through the email chain on there as well.

2608
02:07:48,480 --> 02:07:50,400
Speaker 11: Do it at the same time that you're applying for

2609
02:07:50,480 --> 02:07:54,760
Speaker 11: your Colorado ELP tag. Just then pop over to CWRM

2610
02:07:54,840 --> 02:07:58,400
Speaker 11: and CRWVRWNC give you twenty.

2611
02:07:58,120 --> 02:07:59,800
Speaker 3: Bucks, Dan Gates, thanks for coming on.

2612
02:08:00,000 --> 02:08:01,960
Speaker 8: Thanks you're doing. Thank you very much.

2613
02:08:03,640 --> 02:08:19,440
Speaker 14: It's the Meter Podcast. It's the Meter Podcast, start to

2614
02:08:19,600 --> 02:08:25,400
Speaker 14: day on ride with Ranilla and the crew.

2615
02:08:26,840 --> 02:08:39,440
Speaker 12: With the Conservation Mind come the same. It's the Meat Podcast.

2616
02:08:42,320 --> 02:08:47,200
Speaker 14: It's the Meter Podcast.

2617
02:08:50,080 --> 02:09:05,320
Speaker 12: It's the Meat Podcast. It's the Me Farther Mooting the

2618
02:09:08,560 --> 02:09:13,040
Speaker 14: Lot in nothing le