1 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to woke F Daily with 2 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: me your girl, Danielle Moody recording from the Long Island Bunker. 3 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: You know, I often say to you that you need 4 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: to take a break so that you do not have 5 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: a breakdown. And with all of the compacted crises that 6 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: we are dealing with at this time and making the 7 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: march to midterms, there never seems like the right time 8 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: to take a break. But I say that you have 9 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: to make that time. And so for me, dear friends 10 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: here on woke F, I am going to be taking 11 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: a much needed vacation so that I can rest and 12 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: recharge as we head into what I believe is going 13 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: to be one of the craziest falls we've ever seen. 14 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: I have left you with eight amazing episodes that we 15 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 1: have recorded back in twenty twenty one with some of 16 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 1: the most thoughtful, engaging and insightful commentary that looks at 17 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: our politics, our spiritual nature, our emotional well being, and 18 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,960 Speaker 1: a look inside frankly with some of the guests that 19 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: we are bringing to all of you. These conversations have 20 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:33,759 Speaker 1: been heard by our amazing Patreon supporters who get video 21 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: episodes every single day. Because of their belief and financial 22 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 1: support of woke F throughout the years, and so I'm 23 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: really excited to bring all of you across all the 24 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:50,639 Speaker 1: platforms that you listen to woke F daily on these 25 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: episodes and these interviews that I think will be enticing 26 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: to all of you. They hit on all of the 27 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: major topics that we consistently discuss here on woke F, 28 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: from racism to gender inequality, to police misconduct to wealth inequality, 29 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: which my God, and the need and the need and 30 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 1: the need upmost for spiritual connection and wellness practices that 31 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: allow us to successfully maneuver all of the things that 32 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 1: have been thrown at us over the past couple of years. 33 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: And so, friends, while I will be out from the show, 34 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 1: I will not be out of sight for the next 35 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: several days, and so you can continue to follow me 36 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: on Instagram and on Twitter at D two Cents, D 37 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 1: E two c E n TF. Of course, I will 38 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: be dropping in with my two cents and you can 39 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 1: check me out on TikTok, where I'm sure certain that 40 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: I will drop a few videos in the next couple 41 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: of days, and there you can find me at Danielle 42 00:02:56,040 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: Moody Underscore. I hope that you all enjoy these next 43 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 1: fantastic episodes that we have. Do drop your thoughts in 44 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,079 Speaker 1: the comment section, do hit me up in the socials. 45 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,920 Speaker 1: Just don't draw my attention to anything that is terrible 46 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: because I'm taking a break from the news. But dear friends, 47 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 1: I really do hope that you enjoy these next eight 48 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: episodes and I will see you with brand new episodes 49 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: after Labor Day. It's no secret that the news is 50 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: horsepill hard to swallow. Thankfully, there's The Bituation Room podcast 51 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: hosted by comedian and commentator Francesca free Er and Tini 52 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 1: for a lighter take on the heavy stuff. Each week, 53 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: the Bituation Room brings you progressive comedians, experts, and activists 54 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: to break down the issues in a way that won't 55 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: just leave you crying under a weighted blanket. Get The 56 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: Bituation Room on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, and streaming on 57 00:03:51,120 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: YouTube and Twitch. Indisputable with Doctor Rashid Ricci is one 58 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: of the latest shows on the TYT Network and also 59 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: the fastest growing news show in America. On his show, 60 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: Doctor Ricci plays no games regarding policy, delivering a heavy 61 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: dose of fact based truth and penetrating analysis on all 62 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: the top news stories focusing on racism, criminal and social justice, politics, 63 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: police brutality, Karens, and much more. Listeners can also expect 64 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 1: interviews with fascinating guests, political leaders, commentators, and even fiery 65 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 1: debates with conservatives on a wide range of policy topics. 66 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: In the Bullpen, it is an indisputable fact that you 67 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,799 Speaker 1: will love this show. Listen to Indisputable with Doctor rashad 68 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: Ricci on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. 69 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: If you like what you hear, be sure to subscribe 70 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 1: so you never miss a new episode. Folks, I am 71 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: so excited to welcome to wok F, I believe for 72 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: the first time, friend Philip Atiba Goff, who is the 73 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: CEO of Policing Equity. Philip, you must be busy, I mean, 74 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: because police in America are clearly clearly out of goddamn control. 75 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 1: I don't know how many more mornings we need to 76 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 1: wake up to another shooting of another unarmed black person 77 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: or person of color. I don't know how many more 78 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 1: headlines we need. It's like we are interrupting the Derek 79 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 1: Chauvin trial, then to interrupt it to tell us about 80 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,119 Speaker 1: Dante Wright to then interrupt it to tell us about 81 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 1: Adam Toledo, to then interrupt it to tell us, what, 82 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: how are you feeling right now about what is unfolding 83 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:51,799 Speaker 1: in America? I think I'm feeling what most folks are feeling, 84 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: or many folks are feeling. I'm feeling tired right like. 85 00:05:55,360 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: It's just it's exhausting. I know that. When Adam Toledo 86 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: video came out, the first version I saw, the unaddited version, 87 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 1: I was done. I had to shut it down for 88 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: a little bit because it's it's just exhausting. It doesn't 89 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: matter how hard you work right now, there's no way 90 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 1: to stop the next one. You're hoping to stop one 91 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: like twenty or thirty or forty killings down the road 92 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: just turned turned down the spigot a little bit, so 93 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:31,679 Speaker 1: it's less. And it's when you're seeing the full volume 94 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: of it, as we've been seeing for the last couple 95 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: of days. It's a hard thing to get up to 96 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: to be like, I'm going to make a dent on this, 97 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: and yet that's the thing you gotta do, because if 98 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 1: you're not making a dent, then it won't change at all. 99 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: I have been questioning myself as my listeners know over 100 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: the past year, the past several months, about whether or 101 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:55,239 Speaker 1: not anything that I do matters, right, Like, the whole 102 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 1: point of woke app is to provide a platform and 103 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: a space for us to have more than soundbites, for 104 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 1: us to have real conversations about the issues that are 105 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: affecting our everyday lives. And it just seems that every 106 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: day I pick up the microphone, I have more bad 107 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: news to report. And so what does it feel like 108 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: for you? You work with police, you work with police 109 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: departments across this country? What is the problem? Phillip? Like, 110 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: what is the problem? Where is the problem? Because if 111 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: I hear one more time that there are just a 112 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: few bad apples, when I'm lying, how many bad apple 113 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: spoils the entire goddamn orchard? Do you know what I'm saying? Like, like, 114 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: it's not an apple, it's not a tree, it's the 115 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: entire orchard is rotten. How are you maintaining your hope 116 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: around reform? So the word reform has a tricky meaning 117 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: right now in that it's contrasted oftentimes and rightly oftentimes, 118 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: to abolition. The ideas reform is about changing the stuff 119 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: that we have and the stuff that we have. Part 120 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: of the reason why it's so frustrating is because it's 121 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: doing exactly what it was supposed to be doing, right, Like, 122 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: it's not that it's it needs some tweaks, and it's 123 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: dented and it's bruised, and so we just need to 124 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: refurbish policing. It's like, no, no, no, These killings have 125 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: been part of the mission. So that's not the goal. 126 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:23,559 Speaker 1: To be clear, that was never the goal. The goal 127 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: was harm reduction until we can open up the prospect 128 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: of ridding ourselves of the addiction to punishment that we've got. 129 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: So we've had in our mind a medical model since 130 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: jump right, this country is addicted to punishment as the 131 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,559 Speaker 1: way out of difficult social problems. It's in part because 132 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: we are sort of genetically predisposed as a country to 133 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: lie about our history. That's why we're having That's why 134 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,359 Speaker 1: we had fights about the Confederacy immediately after the uprisings 135 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: in George Floyd. Right, those things don't automatically make sense 136 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 1: next to each other unless you understand it's the lies 137 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 1: about our history that make our pre isn't possible. So 138 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: a year ago, year and a half ago, we could 139 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:07,679 Speaker 1: push and push and push and say, you understand, it's 140 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 1: way worse than the couple of videos that you saw. Right. 141 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 1: There are cities across this country that used to have 142 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: and I pray to God that they don't do it anymore, 143 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 1: but they used to have a policy where law enforcement 144 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: could conduct field cavity searches. What field in outside cavity searches. Now, 145 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: if you and I were to perform a field cavity search, 146 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 1: that's just sexual assault. And yet law enforcement undercover of 147 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: law they'd be like, well, I search you, and I 148 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:44,199 Speaker 1: somehow know you have drugs. I somehow know you might 149 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: have a weapon. So it can get way worse. We 150 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: haven't talked about what happened recover. We haven't talked about 151 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: what happens when we do investigations of sex trafficking. There's 152 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 1: not video of that. To talk about the places where 153 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 1: women are, particularly where trans folks are particularly vulnerable to 154 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: the abuses of the state, we haven't begun to get 155 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:08,559 Speaker 1: at it. Today there is news of a city asking 156 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 1: to avoid four hundred convictions, four hundred convictions, not charges, 157 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: convictions because one officer lied over the course of three years, 158 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 1: four hundred lives that at the very least have finds 159 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: they have to pay, but most of them are in 160 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: cages as a result of one officer line, we haven't 161 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: begun to scratch the surface. And the thing that I 162 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: want people who are really pissed off about policing to 163 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: understand is it's not just the police. The conversation about 164 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: defund the police happens after defundmental health, which wasn't so 165 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: much a popular After defund education, defund programs, defund hospitals, 166 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: defund green spaces, defund urban renewal. In not the gentrification sense, 167 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: in the sense of don't let the houses drop down 168 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: and fall down on the babies. We've defunded absolutely everything 169 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 1: in these communities. So the only public resource we have 170 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 1: left is the police. And the logic has been, well, 171 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 1: we have to because look at the crime as opposed 172 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: to look what we did to create the crime happen, Philip, 173 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 1: because that is my thing, Like you have said everything 174 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:26,559 Speaker 1: that I have been questioning, right, which is we've created 175 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 1: these problems, right, And I continue to say that our 176 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: criminal justice system, poverty, all of these things are functioning 177 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: the way that they were meant to function. Right. The 178 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 1: idea behind all of this was that we defund every 179 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: public good, every social service, and so that we can 180 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: turn this prison industrial complex into the moneymaker that it is. 181 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,359 Speaker 1: For those folks that are like, because when your incentive 182 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: is to increase prisons so that you can increase profit, 183 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: that's the trickle down. That's the only trickle down that 184 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: we've ever felt in this country. Right, And so it's like, 185 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: if you know what the problem is, how do you 186 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: create the will in order to fix the problem. So, 187 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: for better or for worse, I want to offer a 188 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 1: friendly amendment on the profit motive because right now we're 189 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: talking about a little bit about fines and fees. I 190 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: think that the story of Ferguson is not fully told, 191 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: and that's to our detriment because when the federal government 192 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: came in and said, y'all are using fines and fees 193 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: to tax poor black people, Ferguson literally said, well, if 194 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:39,959 Speaker 1: we can't use racist fines and fees, how can we 195 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: fund the city bankrupt if we didn't have racism. So 196 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,839 Speaker 1: we need to be talking about the people that was 197 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 1: literally their responsible. We'd go bankrupt if we couldn't tax 198 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: poor black people. But private prisons and the profit motive 199 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: within policing is a smaller portion than is easy to 200 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: comprehend the bigger game. We just want to throw these 201 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: people away. That whiteness says, this set of problems is 202 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: just it's too it's ikey. I don't want to have 203 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 1: anything to do with it. And so when it's in 204 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: folks faces, you'll see a little bit of movement. But 205 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 1: the movement isn't to solve the problem. The movement is 206 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: to make that discomfort go away. And so what we're 207 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: getting right now is electeds and corporations. Like I loved 208 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: all the corporate speak this summer. We're like, we stand 209 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: with black lives. We're gonna fund voter suppression in Georgia, 210 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: but we stand with black lives. It's to solve the problem. 211 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 1: It's to get rid of the discomfort. The way you 212 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 1: move it forward is you don't let them. So all 213 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: the folks who are out here saying, well, you know, 214 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: defund is radical, or we don't want to you know, 215 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: we're pushing too hard. That's too. That's two out there. 216 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: I need those folks to sit down, because two out 217 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: there is what opened the window for what's possible right now. Now, 218 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: the folks who come in who know how to actually 219 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: make moves and get stuff done to make these these 220 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: moments of fashion into real sustainable policy. They need to 221 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 1: have access too. It's gonna take a lot of hands. 222 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: But they don't rage so hard crowd. They need to 223 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: have a seat, But they don't rage so hard crowd. 224 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 1: They do have a seat, Philip. They have a seat 225 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: in Congress, you know what I'm saying, Like, they do 226 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: have a seat. They sit and write in Congress telling 227 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: us all of the things that they can't get done, 228 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: all of the things that they can't work on because 229 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: it's too big, because it's too hard, all of the 230 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: things that you're saying. So if the people that we 231 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:32,239 Speaker 1: need to stand up are actually sitting down in Congress 232 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: not doing a goddamn thing while we have extraditional killings 233 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: every single goddamn day in this country, then where do 234 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: we go. No, it's fair because they don't just sit 235 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: in Congress. They also sit in boardrooms, you know, in 236 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: corporate decision making positions the thousand percent, and they sit 237 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: they sit at a decision making a nonprofit profits and 238 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 1: philanthropy as well, a thousand percent. What I mean is 239 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: they need to have a seat facing the wall like 240 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: that they can sit yes with the duns add on. Yes, Yes, 241 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: But I will say say, in all of that frustration, 242 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: thousands of municipalities around the country are actually doing something different, 243 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: and it's hard for journalists to get together and wrap 244 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: their minds around it because it does look super different. 245 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: So you saw for a little while a lot of 246 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: stuff on replacing law enforcement with mental health. That's still 247 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: going great, that's still a good story, and they're still momentum. 248 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 1: You're now seeing a couple stories come out about reducing 249 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: low level traffic enforcement so that Dante Wright didn't have 250 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: to die. That's also going on. But there are thousands 251 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: of experiments happening across the country in municipalities. There's one 252 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: in particular that it brought me to tears in the 253 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: good way for like the first time in months. What's 254 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: going on in Ithaca and Tompkins County is possibly breathtaking 255 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: and a model for how we go about doing this. 256 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: So in Ithaca they came, they came to the Center 257 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: for Policing Equity and to community folks, they said, we 258 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: need to do something radically different, and we can. We're 259 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: doing okay right now, and if so if we can't 260 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 1: make it happen, who can't. And what they did They 261 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: went through a nine month process. They got the high 262 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: school students involved, right in senior thesis on this. They 263 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 1: got the local communes, not just Cornell, but if you 264 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: are college, they got the college kids involved. They had 265 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: the janitors involved, They had folks who were formerly incarcerated 266 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: and involved. And on the other end of that process, 267 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: they gave to Governor Cromo. Because the New York State, 268 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: everybody has to have a plan for public safety. They 269 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: gave them a plan that dismantles their police department and 270 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: puts in its place a Department of Community Solutions and 271 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: Public Safety that is majority unarmed, civilian led, no armed 272 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 1: response to non violent calls for crisis and standing up 273 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: social services so that communities can keep themselves safe instead 274 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 1: of calling out for it. There is no more police department. 275 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 1: At the end of this process, there is a Department 276 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: of Community Solutions and Public Safety led by civilians staffed, 277 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: majority unarmed, that will go to ninety six percent of 278 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: the calls for service in Ithaca and Tompkins County. Wow, 279 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: good news, And we got to protect those things because 280 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: I understand Ithaca is not the center of black trauma, 281 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:08,679 Speaker 1: right right for a couple of black kids who went 282 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,360 Speaker 1: to Cornell, and you know, like, I can't help it, right, right, 283 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 1: But it can be a model for how we set 284 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:15,880 Speaker 1: it up because once you see it can be done, 285 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 1: then you start removing the excuses for not doing it. 286 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: So then talk to me. But here come the excuses, right, 287 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: which is, you know, can we do that in New 288 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:27,719 Speaker 1: York City? Can we do that in Minneapolis? Can we 289 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: do that in these places where we're seeing the cops 290 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,880 Speaker 1: literally run rampant, right, like run rough shot, like there's 291 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 1: some type of mob. Can we do it in places 292 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 1: that do have violent crime? So I get that question, 293 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,439 Speaker 1: and it's in order to do it, the larger it goes. 294 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:47,360 Speaker 1: But there's no like, it's the same basic budget process. 295 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 1: It's just larger. Right. You have worse union issues, but 296 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: they're just bigger, and that means there's more people who 297 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: can stand up and say no, we insist. And remember, 298 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 1: in Minneapolis it might be hard, but in Brooklyn Center 299 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 1: it's not. Saint Louis it might be hard, but in 300 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: Ferguson it's not. These killings are happening in the suburbs 301 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: of surrounding YEP, and they have much smaller departments. Right, 302 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 1: eighteen thousand law enforcement agencies in the United States, seventy 303 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 1: five of them have twenty five or fewer officers, and 304 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: there's a thousand that are just one. Dude, those can 305 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: be transformed and or removed overnight. M you know, I 306 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: want to switch gears a little bit to talk about 307 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 1: what happens to officers that are charged. And as we're 308 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 1: watching the Derek Chauvin trial unfold, and we know that 309 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: Kim Potter has been charged with second degree manslaughter in 310 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: the what I will refer to as the murder of 311 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: Dante Bright, tell us why it is so goddamn difficult 312 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 1: for us to convict officers. Tell us why we need 313 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:07,360 Speaker 1: eighty seven videos with every single vantage point possible. And 314 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:11,120 Speaker 1: we still don't know with certainty that an officer will 315 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 1: be charged with the crimes that they commit. If your 316 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: boss tells you to write them a memo, and you 317 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: write them a memo and give it to them, how 318 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 1: likely are you to get fired for that? Like, not 319 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 1: at all, because you did what the boss told you 320 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: to do. Yeah, that's the answer to this. The boss, 321 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,919 Speaker 1: folks in charge of law enforcement are largely happy with 322 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: what law enforcement has been doing, so they oftentimes don't 323 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: want to see how the sausage gets made. They don't 324 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: want to see the literal. But you had to actually 325 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: kill him and his hands were up and he was thirteen. 326 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: That feels itchy. Let's do something so I don't have 327 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: to feel icky. But the idea of keeping whiteness safe 328 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: from black and brown people and for the set of 329 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: terror options we've given to folks who experience concentrated disadvantage, 330 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 1: and that's what they were supposed to do. So they 331 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: show up with the advantage of faith and trust from 332 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 1: communities that like what the outcome has been. So on 333 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 1: one level, there's a very simple answer for why we 334 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,159 Speaker 1: don't get convictions. It's because the system is working as 335 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 1: it's supposed to. It won't convict someone of something that 336 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: it wants people to do. And where are we with 337 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: qualified immunity right, Where where are we with being able 338 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: to at least get to some type of level playing 339 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: ground where you don't have this get out of jail 340 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:47,679 Speaker 1: free card. Yeah, so unqualified immunity. There are states that 341 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,640 Speaker 1: are making changes, they're saying they're abolishing it. That's not 342 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: quite right. What they're doing is they're changing the standard 343 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:59,360 Speaker 1: for it, which should be useful on state cases and 344 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 1: can be useful on local cases. But we're not close 345 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 1: from any of the states. As examples, the Justice for 346 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 1: Justice and Police saying George Floyd Act would end in 347 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:14,119 Speaker 1: this current iteration, would end qualified immunity, and I think 348 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,479 Speaker 1: that has a shot of making it through the Senate. 349 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,400 Speaker 1: So in that case, we would be in fact revealing 350 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: the precedent and saying, no, you cannot use it this way. 351 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 1: But qualified immunity might might make a difference in about 352 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: a quarter of the cases that come forward where they're charging. 353 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 1: So even those things that are that are sort of 354 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: easy villains in this fight, the real villain here is 355 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 1: the way we use police. So if most cities ninety 356 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 1: six percent of what police do has nothing to do 357 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 1: with violence, do you think we could figure out a 358 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 1: way to spend less and get less armed response for 359 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: that ninety six percent of behavior. So I'd be happily 360 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: qualified immunity in place if police had ninety six percent 361 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 1: less contact with folks, Right, Like, if all I'm trying 362 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 1: to do is reduce the number of bodies going to 363 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 1: the Morgus a result of contact with the state. That 364 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: seems like the bigger lever to pull is to pull 365 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: police out of the places where, by the way, for 366 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 1: the last quarter century, they've been saying, we can't do this. 367 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: You give us too much. We can't do mental health 368 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,679 Speaker 1: and substance abuse and homelessness and child welfare. Why do 369 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 1: you give all that to us? Right, So they want 370 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: to get out of the business. They just want to 371 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,120 Speaker 1: do it without losing their budgets. Right, I'm happy to 372 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 1: law enforcement to get them out of the places they 373 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: always wanted to get out of. And in many cities, 374 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,639 Speaker 1: by the way, we should be standing up those systems 375 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: before we're disinvesting, so we can we can invest before 376 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 1: we divest in some places. But it's got to be 377 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 1: push pull, because we have fed this beast so much 378 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,440 Speaker 1: that if they were the military, US law enforcement would 379 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 1: be the third largest military in the world after our 380 00:22:54,880 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: military and then China's military. That's too much, which is 381 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 1: obscene when you look at the lack of money we 382 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 1: put into let's say education, right, like you judge a 383 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: country by where they put the most of their resources, 384 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,400 Speaker 1: and like you said at the beginning, America is addicted 385 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 1: right to locking people up, and it's no wonder to me. 386 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 1: I mean, we would rather in America send children to 387 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: school with bulletproof backpacks, armed teachers, then do something substantive 388 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: on gun reform. We'd rather have a Dante right a 389 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: week or a day, then admit to the fact that 390 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: our policing system is absolutely atrocious and if it didn't 391 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 1: have a badge, would be considered the KKK in terms 392 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: of the number of black people that they murder on 393 00:23:52,080 --> 00:24:00,679 Speaker 1: a regular basis. I just you know, what expectation do 394 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: you have of this current administration to be able to 395 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: move the ball forward with this systemic problem that we have. 396 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 1: It will really depend to me on who they get 397 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:21,120 Speaker 1: through Senate confirmation. The Senate confirmed nominees right now are 398 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:25,959 Speaker 1: of fantastic slate of folks that are way bolder in 399 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: terms of their vision for what can be done than 400 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: this president campaigned on. So we get Kristin Clark, and 401 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: we get Vinita Gupta, and we get Anne Milgram has 402 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: had a da that's good for the set of things 403 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,199 Speaker 1: I care about. Vinita Gupta was the best thing that 404 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 1: had happened to the Civil Rights Division in at least 405 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: a generation and for her to come up and then 406 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,719 Speaker 1: have Kristin Clark take that over a Senate confirmed. I mean, 407 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 1: it's not just history setting. It sets a table for 408 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: removal qualified immunity, for really ramping up what investigations look 409 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 1: like a civil rights for expanding how civil rights investigations 410 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: of law enforcement actually go into the full municipality. Right, 411 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 1: because before the Ferguson report, no one was talking about 412 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: how cities generate revenue. So how much more cans of 413 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: folks who are really credential to have some experience, how 414 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,439 Speaker 1: much more could they do? And also I want us 415 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: to be thinking about what are we going to make 416 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 1: them do? Because under Obama, what we did was we said, 417 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: there's a black dude there right blaze basketball. We like 418 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 1: his march madness, his wife is wonderful, his kids are wonderful. 419 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 1: Let's not embarrass him, let's not put him in bad spots. 420 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 1: And so we didn't push. I'm not saying that's what 421 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: I thought. I'm not saying this what everybody thought. No, no, no, 422 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,920 Speaker 1: But I mean, but that's right. But that's right. There's 423 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: no reason not to push Uncle Joe. There's just not 424 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,160 Speaker 1: And so I want to say, what are we going 425 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,239 Speaker 1: to insist on? And I hope we insist on the 426 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:56,639 Speaker 1: recognition nationwide that we have a system that punishes people 427 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,919 Speaker 1: for the choices they make in a context where we 428 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 1: have given them only terrible options. So we should be 429 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: giving them better options before we even talk about how 430 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: we want to ratch it up punishment. Last question for you, 431 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: fill Up is this, do you feel like we need 432 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 1: to change our messaging around defund the police, around abolish 433 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,920 Speaker 1: the police? Do you think that the messaging is off 434 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: or do you think that it's right where it needs 435 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: to be. So this conversation around messaging, I actually think 436 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: it is super duper important because there's a lot of 437 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 1: assumptions that have gone into it when we've had it 438 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: in public. So members of what i'll call a democratic 439 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: establishment have said, well, we can't be making this defund demand. 440 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: That's ridiculous. It's killing us electorally. Be like you were 441 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:52,399 Speaker 1: not one's making it. It wasn't for you. It was 442 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 1: activating folks who were outraged and felt like what on 443 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 1: earth can I do? Like you and I were saying 444 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,159 Speaker 1: and feeling at the very beginning of this conversation, those 445 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 1: folks are like you, know what. Yeah, I'm not up 446 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: for reform. I'm up for just getting rid of this 447 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: because it's actually killing us. So if folks want to 448 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:12,360 Speaker 1: have different messaging, feel free to develop some. That's how 449 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,640 Speaker 1: I feel about. It's like, so we all of us, 450 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 1: we're not messaging the same thing. So I hearing abolition 451 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,199 Speaker 1: that's talking about I want to talk about refund, not 452 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: defund refund to the community. I hear abolition is saying that, 453 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: Oh right, that feels good to me. But you know what, 454 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: defund is still working in places. And I also, I know, 455 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: like you said last question, I'm gonna trying not to 456 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,879 Speaker 1: be too prof come on now. But my deal is 457 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,640 Speaker 1: we think of abolition right now like it's some's something 458 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: brand new, okay. And then some folks are like, oh, 459 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,199 Speaker 1: Miriam cob has been around for a little while, Yes 460 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 1: she has, she's been doing it. And then something were like, well, 461 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,400 Speaker 1: Angela Davis been around for a little while. Okay, okay, okay. 462 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: But Angela Davis, when she is summarizing a great portion 463 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: of her life's work in two thousand and five, writes 464 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: a book called Abolition Democracy. She is quoting from W. E. B. 465 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: Du Bois writing in nineteen thirty five about black reconstruction. 466 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: This thing goes back to the point of emancipation, when 467 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:10,399 Speaker 1: we have black geniuses talking about not just the destruction 468 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 1: of the systems that kill us, but the proactive, affirmative 469 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 1: construction of systems that will keep us safe and that 470 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: will rip the body politic of the toxins of historical 471 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 1: legacies of racism. Abolition is not just about getting rid 472 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: of something. It's about standing up something that's better than 473 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: what we've had. And when we have a more historically 474 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,399 Speaker 1: literate appreciation for what that word means, I think it 475 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 1: stops being so scary and starts being a bit inevitable. 476 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: You know, you're so right on so many things. What 477 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: makes me discourage, though, is that we're a nation that 478 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: is illiterate about our own history, about our own lives, 479 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: about the lives of our neighbors. We are pissfully ignorant, 480 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: and so for every issue that we have, there is 481 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: a re education that needs to happen, because the way 482 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: that we have been educated is through the lie. I 483 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 1: keep saying that the big lie wasn't just about election fraud. 484 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 1: The big lie has been what we've been teaching in 485 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 1: public schools since the beginning of time, right, And so 486 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: it's just like, you know, you make sense if you 487 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: were to take things into historical contests and actually understand 488 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: the context of the words that we are using. But 489 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 1: my fear for America is that we continually show our 490 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: ass and our celebratory around just how ignorant we are. 491 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: And so if that be the case, Philip, it's like, 492 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: do we ever see the needle move right? If we're 493 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 1: in a constant state of having to go back and 494 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,719 Speaker 1: re educate folks and bring them up to where they 495 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: should be, are we ever moving forward if I got 496 00:29:55,760 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: to keep looking back? Yeah, I understand and the frustration. 497 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 1: And so let's say there's two options. There's a yes 498 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 1: and there's a no. If the answer is no, then 499 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: what we're doing just give up? I should I should 500 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 1: become a black person who says that black people just 501 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 1: need to pull the pants up and that will get 502 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 1: all the shootings are because there's money in that, for sure, 503 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 1: O percent. You could be rich on Fox News go 504 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 1: ahead if you didn't care about a conscience or Yeah, 505 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 1: like if I didn't have a soul, I could just 506 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 1: do that. And so I answer yes both because I 507 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: see change happening, and I watch the genius of communities 508 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 1: coming together and saying we will demand better, we will 509 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 1: insist on more, and because that is the only option 510 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 1: that makes living the way that I'm trying to live 511 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: makes sense, living with any kind of hope, looking at 512 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 1: babies and saying not just I'm sorry for what we're 513 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: giving you, but I think you can make this place better, 514 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 1: literally looking at my God and saying that that it's 515 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,600 Speaker 1: required for me to believe it can be and to 516 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: work so that that's true. Now, I believe that optimism 517 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: in the face of reality is a revolutionary act, and 518 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: I try and be a little bit of a revolutionary 519 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 1: every day. Right. So I'm not trying to sugarcoat stuff. 520 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 1: But if we're talking about is it possible, Slavery wasn't 521 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 1: ended till it was, right, Voting rights weren't secured un 522 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: till they were now they're not. We're gonna do it again, right, 523 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: all the things that weren't possible you think about it. 524 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: The moon was just something up in the sky for 525 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: a long time throughout all of human history, and then 526 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: a small group of folks got a bunch of resources 527 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:41,720 Speaker 1: and the will of the people to say, let's go. 528 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: And now that's a thing that probably in the next 529 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: twenty years you can buy a ticket to buy a 530 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: ticket to the moon. This thing that doesn't have oxygen 531 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 1: doesn't exist within our earth. The things that humanity can 532 00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 1: do when we decide it is required are amazing. We 533 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: dream about technology, and we dream about power, But when 534 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: do we dream about a better society? What does democracy 535 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 1: look like twenty thirty forty one hundred, five hundred years 536 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 1: from now? How have we set ourselves up to be better? 537 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: When we start dreaming about freedom not just for ourselves, 538 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 1: but as the root construct of what we're going to 539 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: gift to the next generation. I imagine that we can 540 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: take ourselves to the Moon, to Mars, to solar systems 541 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 1: we can't even see with the naked eye. In terms 542 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: of how we keep ourselves safe. I know that's possible, 543 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: because humanity does the impossible all the goddamn time. It's 544 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: just we've done it for the wrong reasons and for 545 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: the wrong set of people. Philip Gough, you know you 546 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: continue to do the good work, preach the good message 547 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 1: because folks like me and my listeners here at woke 548 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 1: AF we need all of the hopefulness and the faith 549 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 1: that we can muster because the times are pressing, and 550 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 1: they are pressing us into the ground. But you are right. 551 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: We are nothing if but dreamers, and so we have 552 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: seen dreams turn into action, and that is where we 553 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 1: should be putting our focus and our energies. Thank you 554 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 1: so much for joining Woke. If appreciate you, I appreciate you. 555 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: Stay safe as always, dear friends. Power to the people 556 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 1: and to all the people. Power, get woke and stay 557 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 1: woke as fuck. See after Labor Day.