Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and
Speaker 1: Matt and today we're discussing navigating college decisions with Alicia Howard.
Speaker 1: At Today on the podcast, we're speaking with certified college
Speaker 1: counselor Alicia Howard. She has been in education for fifteen
Speaker 1: years and worked in college admissions for five years before
Speaker 1: starting College Insights. In at College Insights, Alicia helps students
Speaker 1: navigate college decisions through academic advising, resume building, and applying
Speaker 1: to the right schools. She is passionate about college students
Speaker 1: avoiding the crippling effects of student loans. So this will
Speaker 1: be a really valuable conversation for anyone considering college, for
Speaker 1: students who are already in school, and even for graduates
Speaker 1: who already have student loans as we'll touch on that
Speaker 1: as well. So Alicia, thanks so much for coming on
Speaker 1: the show. Yeah, thank you, thank you for having me today. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm glad to have you and Alicia. Real quick before
Speaker 1: we start talking about college, well, we intentionally Matt and
Speaker 1: I drink a craft beer on every episode. It means
Speaker 1: the world to Matt and I. We love beer and
Speaker 1: so uh and so we love our families and we
Speaker 1: love our families and so well, we love both equally.
Speaker 1: I don't know something like that, but yeah, because we
Speaker 1: love beer, we're we're happy to sporge on really good
Speaker 1: beer right now while saving for the future. Today on
Speaker 1: the show, we're drinking a beer called hot Food by
Speaker 1: North Park Beer Company, and a listener John sent that
Speaker 1: one our way. So what's your kind of craft beer equivalent?
Speaker 1: What what do you like to sport John in the
Speaker 1: here and now even while you're saving and investing for
Speaker 1: the future. Traveling. Traveling is a big one for me.
Speaker 1: I lived abroad for many years and I've backpacked almost
Speaker 1: thirty countries, So the big traveler. Yes, I know people
Speaker 1: are like, oh, I like to go travel and I
Speaker 1: went on a cruise. Like no, I'm I'm a real
Speaker 1: traveler and I have no problem spending money on that
Speaker 1: while you know, also saving for my future. Very cool.
Speaker 1: If if you could snap your fingers right now and
Speaker 1: kind of transport yourself to to any country that you've
Speaker 1: been to, where would you go back to you right now? Thailand?
Speaker 1: Thailand has been on my mind a lot lately. And
Speaker 1: when you travel like I do, I have a lot
Speaker 1: of places I can couch surf, if I want. So
Speaker 1: my friend called me and was like, hey, I just
Speaker 1: bought a three bedroom villa on the beach and pouquette.
Speaker 1: You want to come crush my spare bedroom. I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I will do that. So, yeah, that's that's something I'm
Speaker 1: willing to spend money on. Although it's cheap, it's cheap
Speaker 1: to do and somewhere like Thailand, so it's not actually
Speaker 1: a very expensive thing to do. Yeah, Thailand is wonderful
Speaker 1: to food, everything so cheap here. You've been there, right,
Speaker 1: and that where you wrote on the elephant and have
Speaker 1: I didn't ride on an elephant. I walked with an elephant. Oh,
Speaker 1: and you walked with it, but then you were in
Speaker 1: the river with it and you're talking about how it's
Speaker 1: like it was this like surreal experience. You talk so
Speaker 1: much about that elephant bath. I've done that. I have
Speaker 1: done it too. It's crazy, isn't it. Yeah, it's so fun. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And holding the tigers, that's like definitely one of my
Speaker 1: favorite things to do. I didn't hold a tiger. I'm
Speaker 1: not that crazy. I did. I held a tiger and
Speaker 1: by the time we got there, the baby tigers were
Speaker 1: like taking a nap, and so I told the monk,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I really want to hold a tiger, and
Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, I have one you can hold, and
Speaker 1: I have a picture of me. But this thing is
Speaker 1: like a move faster like for a live tiger, Like
Speaker 1: this was like a daddy tiger, And so I'm like, really,
Speaker 1: that's like I wanted to hold a little baby. Gave
Speaker 1: me like this massive tiger to hang out with and
Speaker 1: snuggle with. But I took it because that's the only
Speaker 1: shot I had. I like the sound of your your
Speaker 1: tiger orphanage. That sounds amazing. I know, it was fun. Alicia,
Speaker 1: how let's let's talk something about you know, our topic
Speaker 1: at hand here, like how did you get started in
Speaker 1: the world of academic advising and admissions? Like basically all
Speaker 1: things college related? How did how did you get your star? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's actually a super long story, but the fast
Speaker 1: story is that, I mean, I've been in education for
Speaker 1: but fifteen sixteen years now and kind of started in
Speaker 1: everything and just took the opportunities that came my way.
Speaker 1: And so I'm not I'm a kind of person. I'm
Speaker 1: not afraid to try things and kind of mess things up,
Speaker 1: as long as my bosses were cool with it. They're like, oh,
Speaker 1: you want to plan this camp, or do you want
Speaker 1: to plan this curriculum, or how you should create this class?
Speaker 1: And I just kind of took everything, and so it
Speaker 1: ended up giving me this very general expertise of a
Speaker 1: lot of things. But I had graduated college from grad
Speaker 1: school in two thousand and eight and I was actually
Speaker 1: going to law school when the economy crashed, and so
Speaker 1: I kind of had an early midlife crisis, like what
Speaker 1: am I gonna do with my life and just decided, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'll go back to law school, but I'm not going
Speaker 1: to go back unless I can figure out how to
Speaker 1: come out without debt, because I had undergrad and graduate
Speaker 1: school debt. And so I went to Korea. I worked
Speaker 1: my way up the ladder there and was figuring out
Speaker 1: how to pay for law school, and you know, as
Speaker 1: a default, I figured out how to not pay on
Speaker 1: my own student loans and get them forgiven. I figured
Speaker 1: out how to get to law school for free, and
Speaker 1: then I ended up kind of just helping other people
Speaker 1: and just fell into it, and I really enjoyed the work,
Speaker 1: and so I kind of ended up starting a business
Speaker 1: on accident. Honestly, over time it's grown and now I
Speaker 1: have a lot of good data on how successful these
Speaker 1: kind of trick tips, tricks, you know, strategies work, and
Speaker 1: now it's kind of at the next phase of growth.
Speaker 1: So I it was seriously an accident. I fell into it. Well,
Speaker 1: that's cool, and I love that it worked for you
Speaker 1: in order to kind of curb your student loan debt,
Speaker 1: Like what what aspects of consulting and specifically helping people
Speaker 1: navigate the admissions process where you drawn to? You know,
Speaker 1: for me, it was you know, I came from a
Speaker 1: pretty poor family and my like my parents didn't even
Speaker 1: graduate high school. So when I was going through the
Speaker 1: process myself and I was sixteen when I went to college,
Speaker 1: I just didn't know what I was doing. And I
Speaker 1: tried the best I could, but you know, I really
Speaker 1: didn't have support. And what I mean by support is
Speaker 1: my parents were, you know, gung ho, we'll we'll back
Speaker 1: you up, but like they didn't know what to do.
Speaker 1: They couldn't edit my essays, they didn't know where to
Speaker 1: look for schools, and so I kind of had to
Speaker 1: figure that out on my own. And then I just
Speaker 1: kind of had that passion of you know, there's a
Speaker 1: lot to this process, and being in education for a
Speaker 1: long time, I understood it very well, you know later,
Speaker 1: but not when I was a kid. So I just
Speaker 1: kind of had that passion of really helping really middle
Speaker 1: class families, you know, lower income kids. They qualify for
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of free staff, there's all
Speaker 1: kinds of nonprofits. Wealthy kids have always paid for it,
Speaker 1: as you've seen now in college admission scandals that are
Speaker 1: coming up. Um, I don't do that illegal stuff, but
Speaker 1: you know, well, yeah, but wealthy people have always paid consultants.
Speaker 1: And so what a middle class families do and what
Speaker 1: help do they have? They have nothing. So I just
Speaker 1: kind of had that passion to help help kids that
Speaker 1: were like me, very cool. I mean, well, yeah, speaking
Speaker 1: of the middle class, like, there is such a price
Speaker 1: disparity from school to school, right, so how how would
Speaker 1: you recommend for folks to determine if an expensive school
Speaker 1: is worth it? So I'd see that's very you know,
Speaker 1: case by case, but generally an expensive school honestly is
Speaker 1: only worth it if you can pay cash. Period. There's
Speaker 1: not really an exception because there's four thousand universities in
Speaker 1: this country, like, you can't find one that will fit
Speaker 1: your needs and be affordable. Now, you might not know
Speaker 1: where to look, which is why people hire me. But
Speaker 1: I have clients Like I have a client right now.
Speaker 1: Both of his kids are at public schools out of state,
Speaker 1: and it's sixty grand year, and he's very wealthy. He
Speaker 1: owns a lot of property in Seattle, and so he
Speaker 1: has no problem writing a sixty dollar check every year.
Speaker 1: That's fine, he can afford it. That's buying a happy
Speaker 1: meal to this guy. Most families, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: send them to those schools. It's totally not worth it
Speaker 1: to get a public school degree for sixty grand a year.
Speaker 1: That's crazy. So for most people, I'd say, if it's
Speaker 1: over priced, if it's that expensive, it's it's not worth
Speaker 1: it unless your family can write a check for it. Sure,
Speaker 1: And as we've seen kind of the costs of college
Speaker 1: tuition creep up and up, and by creep, I mean skyrocket. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: they've gone. It's gone up so fast, and it's become
Speaker 1: so daunting for people when they are choosing what college
Speaker 1: to go to. Do you ever recommend for folks to
Speaker 1: go to for students to consider choosing a community college
Speaker 1: instead for the first couple of years to kind of
Speaker 1: keep those costs low, and then like transferring to a
Speaker 1: college that maybe is a better fit for those final
Speaker 1: two years. It can be. It really depends on this student.
Speaker 1: I mean I see students. I mean one like me.
Speaker 1: There was no way I was going to do that.
Speaker 1: I really wanted that for your experience, and I do
Speaker 1: see the value in it. Now. Do I see the
Speaker 1: value of coming out with two dollars in debt? No, So,
Speaker 1: like there's wiggle room there. And it depends because you know,
Speaker 1: some community colleges are not that affordable nowadays, So it
Speaker 1: just depends where you're from and where your your costs are.
Speaker 1: But for some people, yeah, I have a lot of
Speaker 1: students where they just have no idea what they want
Speaker 1: to do. They don't even know what they're looking for
Speaker 1: in a college. Yeah, maybe it's a smarter move to
Speaker 1: just stay home and go to a community college. Um,
Speaker 1: we have somebody in our family right now. This is
Speaker 1: a great example. She didn't know what she wanted to do,
Speaker 1: actually got a sports scholarship to go play at a
Speaker 1: community college, ended up not wanting to stay there, but
Speaker 1: her boyfriend was out of college. Um, he's at Western,
Speaker 1: which is a school here in Washington, so they're doing
Speaker 1: a long distance thing. Well, she took some time off
Speaker 1: and now she's at a community college near her boyfriend
Speaker 1: who's at Western, and it works really well for her.
Speaker 1: You know, she still gets the experience of the four
Speaker 1: year um, the four year experience and friends and you know,
Speaker 1: interacting with students at that school. Isn't paying the price
Speaker 1: and she still gets She lives in an apartment with
Speaker 1: a friend who is at Western there and so she's
Speaker 1: still getting that experience but without the cost. And then
Speaker 1: you know she'll probably transfer there at some point. But
Speaker 1: you know, there's ways to have that experience without paying
Speaker 1: that cost if you're kind of in that middle ground
Speaker 1: of not knowing what to do. So there's definitely validity
Speaker 1: to it. So on the other end of that, right,
Speaker 1: you know, with a four year college like that, you're
Speaker 1: getting that experience. But do you ever think that that
Speaker 1: it makes sense for a high school or to not
Speaker 1: even considering going to going to college at all? Right, Like,
Speaker 1: like we said, like we are seeing the cost of
Speaker 1: college become prohibitively expensive, and like a lot of recent
Speaker 1: graduates are even in jobs that don't require the degrees
Speaker 1: that they've just worked so hard to get or that
Speaker 1: they've spent a ton of money to receive. So do
Speaker 1: you ever have clients that come to you where, you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes you even advised them that, you know what, like
Speaker 1: maybe college isn't for you. Oh yeah, all the time,
Speaker 1: and I'm advising it more and more. Um now, Like
Speaker 1: obviously there's students, you know, like I have a bunch
Speaker 1: of clients this here. It's just kind of odd it
Speaker 1: worked out that way. But they want to be doctors. Okay,
Speaker 1: well you want to be a doctor, you want to
Speaker 1: be a teacher, like you have to go to college.
Speaker 1: There's an yeah. But then there's people who even like
Speaker 1: my my nephew who's nineteen, you know, my sister was like,
Speaker 1: what do we do. I'm like, he's not going to
Speaker 1: go to a traditional four year college. He's going to
Speaker 1: go to a vocational school or get do some sort
Speaker 1: of like trade. That's just what's best for him. That's
Speaker 1: the kind of like he's that person. I could see
Speaker 1: him being an electrician or something. And that's fine, that's great. Um,
Speaker 1: if you can go to a great trade school, or
Speaker 1: go through an apprenticeship program. I mean here in Washington,
Speaker 1: we have such a shortage of electricians. They're making like
Speaker 1: a hundred hundred twenty grand a year, and the training
Speaker 1: for it is really good. Like you can be making
Speaker 1: and not have the debt and be making six figures.
Speaker 1: I mean, why not, you know it is for some
Speaker 1: for some students, it's it's a great option. So for
Speaker 1: for high schoolers or parents of high schoolers who are
Speaker 1: mechanically inclined, what direction do you push them in when
Speaker 1: it comes to trade schools? How like what's the best
Speaker 1: way for them to kind of go about pursuing work
Speaker 1: with their hands or work in the trades. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: usually recommend because usually a lot of times they don't
Speaker 1: know what they want to do, and that's kind of
Speaker 1: where they get stuck. So I'll usually a guys and
Speaker 1: I have a lot of relationships here in our area
Speaker 1: and be like, hey, can you job shadow this kid
Speaker 1: for a couple of days, like let them tag along
Speaker 1: and see would he be a good electrician or you know,
Speaker 1: commercial plumber or welder, you know those kinds of things,
Speaker 1: and see if they like it, you know, if they
Speaker 1: have a skill at it. And if that's something they
Speaker 1: want to do, then you know, we'll hook them up
Speaker 1: with those mentors and kind of send them down down
Speaker 1: that path and get them going that way. I love that.
Speaker 1: I think it's amazing that, Like you mean, your company
Speaker 1: is called College Insights, But at the same time, you're
Speaker 1: also keeping in mind that sometimes like the best path
Speaker 1: for some of these students to take isn't one that
Speaker 1: actually involves college. So yeah, I think that's that's smart.
Speaker 1: So well, Alicia, we are actually going to talk some
Speaker 1: more about college. We're gonna talk about kind of the
Speaker 1: admissions process and how to pay for college, and we're
Speaker 1: gonna get to those topics right after the break. All right,
Speaker 1: we're back from the break. We're talking with Alicia Howard,
Speaker 1: and we're talking about navigating college decisions. Okay, and Alicia,
Speaker 1: let's say that our fictional student here is has declined
Speaker 1: to go to a trade school, that they're interested in
Speaker 1: a traditional four year degree. Let's talk about navigating the
Speaker 1: admissions process. What are the biggest things that most folks
Speaker 1: applying to college don't even consider during the process that
Speaker 1: could actually end up really hurting them. Oh man, so
Speaker 1: I have a perfect case, right now with the client.
Speaker 1: What I'm about to tell you is going to save
Speaker 1: you about so you're gonna yeah. So what most parents
Speaker 1: don't realize because most parents went to college thirty years ago, right,
Speaker 1: and they applied to one school and it was a
Speaker 1: little application and it was easy. It's not like that anymore.
Speaker 1: It's so competitive that we have all these essays and
Speaker 1: all these little pieces of paperwork that have to be submitted,
Speaker 1: all this financial paperwork, like just a lot of stuff.
Speaker 1: So I recommend that you probably need a solid year
Speaker 1: ideally to really get through this process. My average students
Speaker 1: writing essays, there's multiple applications, the applications more complicated. There's
Speaker 1: just a lot of stuff that goes through this process
Speaker 1: to really navigate it and make sure the family and
Speaker 1: the kid are meeting their goals right. So it's a
Speaker 1: long process. What most people do is they lollygag or
Speaker 1: they don't realize it's important, and they end up submitting
Speaker 1: their applications in January February March when it's that's the
Speaker 1: later deadline often called the regular decision deadline mine most laws.
Speaker 1: So in seven states there's actually this is actually by law.
Speaker 1: I will tell you if it's not by law in
Speaker 1: most states, it's definitely a practice by most universities. What
Speaker 1: happens is once you get your admissions letter, that kind
Speaker 1: of triggers to the Financial Aid Office. That thet the
Speaker 1: next step kicks into place, so your offer letter comes. Well,
Speaker 1: at every university there you know, tied on funds. There's
Speaker 1: only so much funding and that gets awarded basically in order.
Speaker 1: So the sooner you've submitted all of your applications, the
Speaker 1: sooner that goes to the Financial Aid Office, the sooner
Speaker 1: you're the more money they have, et cetera. When you
Speaker 1: wait until like February to submit those applications, there's only
Speaker 1: so much money left, and so a lot of kids
Speaker 1: wait till like July to do their fast fut and stuff.
Speaker 1: Well money's gone. There's no money left. There's no money left,
Speaker 1: even if they like would have qualified for something. So
Speaker 1: the earlier you get your applications and I am seeing
Speaker 1: a difference of about twenty to thirty thou dollars and
Speaker 1: offer money. Remember most of those applications, the scholarships are
Speaker 1: offered freshman year, So if you don't get it freshman year,
Speaker 1: and there's exceptions to this, but if you don't get
Speaker 1: that money freshman year, like you're not getting it all
Speaker 1: four or five years. So if you don't get that
Speaker 1: five thousand dollar scholarship freshman year, that's twenty thou dollars
Speaker 1: over four years. Why because you didn't get your stuff
Speaker 1: in on time. You waited till January February March. If
Speaker 1: you would have gotten that in by the like November
Speaker 1: one deadline, you get significantly more money. Now, my students,
Speaker 1: I aim for a deadline of September, which don't tell,
Speaker 1: don't tell the kids, But that's actually because I I
Speaker 1: know I'm not going to get their work until October,
Speaker 1: so like I tell them in September fifteen, that's not
Speaker 1: actually what happens. But my kids who get their stuff
Speaker 1: in in September October man they get acceptance letters usually
Speaker 1: within a week or two because there's not a lot
Speaker 1: of kids doing it at that time. Mission staff doesn't
Speaker 1: have a whole lot of a whole lot to read
Speaker 1: right the right then right, yeah, but prove Yeah, so
Speaker 1: my admissions rate, so I have a hundred percent emissions
Speaker 1: rate over my what eight years doing this? Because what
Speaker 1: happens your admissions officers in a better mood, like they're
Speaker 1: getting through them faster. Again, it depends on the school,
Speaker 1: but they're getting higher acceptance rates. Plus their offer letters
Speaker 1: are significantly higher. So the easiest way to save money
Speaker 1: on school is to get your stuff in early and
Speaker 1: don't wait like everybody else does and call me in
Speaker 1: like November or October ary. Yeah, you're not going to
Speaker 1: get any money. There's no money left. It makes me
Speaker 1: think of like when we go to the grocery store
Speaker 1: and it's the beginning of the month in our budget resets,
Speaker 1: and we have a fridge or not a fridge, but
Speaker 1: we have like a you know, a full gallon of milk.
Speaker 1: When I'm making my coffee, I pour a lot of
Speaker 1: milk into my coffee because there is a lot of milk.
Speaker 1: But you know what, once we're getting towards the bottom
Speaker 1: of that jug and I'm like, oh, you know, there's
Speaker 1: just a little bit left. And so I tend to
Speaker 1: be more conservative. But but yeah, I had no idea
Speaker 1: that it had that much of an impact when it
Speaker 1: comes to financial aid, just getting getting your foot in
Speaker 1: the door, getting your name in the door, getting on
Speaker 1: their list, and then earlier, like the compounding effect of
Speaker 1: getting a freshman year and then and then getting those Yeah,
Speaker 1: the recurring funds for years on end, that's huge. Yeah,
Speaker 1: especially middle class families, that's super important. Again, it's different
Speaker 1: if you are pelgram eligible or different things. That's a
Speaker 1: different set of rules. But if you're a middle class
Speaker 1: and you're not going to qualify for a bunch of grants, man,
Speaker 1: your best bet is to get those scholarships, your departmental scholarships,
Speaker 1: your university scholarships, your academic scholarships. But the best way
Speaker 1: to get those is to get them early. By February March,
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff's gone, so the only their best
Speaker 1: bet was to do it early. But because you just
Speaker 1: couldn't get organized, it's just so sad. I see so
Speaker 1: many families. I'm like, man, you just like couldn't get
Speaker 1: organized early enough, and you like cost your kid thirty grand. Well,
Speaker 1: so you know, at least you're talking about how it's
Speaker 1: like a year long process, right just basically applying to school.
Speaker 1: You're talking about the importance of those essays. What about
Speaker 1: just other extra curriculars in high school? Like what are
Speaker 1: most college admissions departments looking at are Like, are they
Speaker 1: looking you know, for you to be involved in a
Speaker 1: bunch of clubs like I was in high school, even
Speaker 1: though I barely went to them. I was that girl totally.
Speaker 1: I was a part of a ton of different clubs
Speaker 1: and I had minimal involvement in every single one of them.
Speaker 1: Or are they looking for maybe more initiative. Are they
Speaker 1: looking for a student who's maybe like the presidents you
Speaker 1: know of a certain club. Matt was the kid in
Speaker 1: chess club playing checkers. Yeah, all right, yeah, So it
Speaker 1: depends on the school. And now if you're going I
Speaker 1: V S, that's a very very specific profile you're looking at.
Speaker 1: But most schools, I mean, they do kind of want
Speaker 1: you a little well rounded, but they want you more
Speaker 1: focused than they tell you. Like most people will say, oh,
Speaker 1: be really well rounded. But the truth is is, like
Speaker 1: most people who are experts, and we all know those people,
Speaker 1: you're good in one thing and you're really, really really
Speaker 1: good in that one thing. Ing. So like a good
Speaker 1: example of a good profile is like, be really good
Speaker 1: and you're you know one to three things, right, You're
Speaker 1: really great in football or maybe a couple of different sports,
Speaker 1: or you're really strong in your key club because you're
Speaker 1: a great volunteer, be specific and if a couple of things, Now,
Speaker 1: it's okay to round that out with you know, maybe
Speaker 1: you do want to do a couple of clubs, that's fine,
Speaker 1: but don't join like twenty clubs. It's a little bit
Speaker 1: of both. Be really good in two or three things,
Speaker 1: rounded out with a couple little things. But do something
Speaker 1: you enjoy. Don't do something like you're gonna hate for
Speaker 1: your college, your high school and college career. What about
Speaker 1: the academic side at leastia like AP honors classes, Like
Speaker 1: how important are those in kind of factoring in where
Speaker 1: you fit in the hierarchy when you're applying for college.
Speaker 1: That really depends on on the student. But the more
Speaker 1: competitive of a school you're applying to, the more important
Speaker 1: it is to have those you know, A p IB classes.
Speaker 1: There are certain schools if you're going to, honestly like
Speaker 1: it's not very competitive, so it's not going to make
Speaker 1: that big of a difference. But the more competitive of
Speaker 1: a school, the more important it's going to be to
Speaker 1: have those A p I B classes. Now, as an educator,
Speaker 1: I will tell you it's great to have those just
Speaker 1: because high school classes are so much easier than high
Speaker 1: than college classes, and you're gonna get your butt kicked
Speaker 1: in college if you don't have, like, if you don't
Speaker 1: learn steady skills, if you don't learn note taking, if
Speaker 1: you don't learn just those skills you need to develop.
Speaker 1: So it's really good to have at least some of
Speaker 1: those classes just for the experience of it. But if
Speaker 1: you're going to IVY or highly competitive schools, I mean
Speaker 1: even here in Seattle, the University of Washington, it's like
Speaker 1: a thirty three percent acceptance rate or something like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you better have those school those classes because every other
Speaker 1: kid does, versus you're going to a school that's not
Speaker 1: very competitive. Okay, one or two a P classes is
Speaker 1: going to be fine. So you have to learn how
Speaker 1: to balance it with what your long term goals are.
Speaker 1: Got it? So how also, how would you recommend for
Speaker 1: students to call their selection of potential schools. Obviously certain
Speaker 1: schools have different strengths, but yeah, like how would you
Speaker 1: recommend that you know, students go about kind of figuring
Speaker 1: out what schools are kind of hone in on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's actually a long longer process than most people realize.
Speaker 1: But just a few things would be one go on tours.
Speaker 1: I always tell people to go on tours. Now you
Speaker 1: can go tour schools that you're not even interested in,
Speaker 1: but they're close to your house. I don't care. Just
Speaker 1: give me something to work with, right, Because a lot
Speaker 1: of people, like here in Seattle, they're like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I want to go to University of Washington. I'm like,
Speaker 1: have you sat in on an English one oh one
Speaker 1: class at the University of Washington, because there's like eight
Speaker 1: hundred people and if you can't focus in a room
Speaker 1: of that many students, it's not going to be a
Speaker 1: good fit. Well, that's good to know. It's almost like
Speaker 1: shopping for a house where you gotta go visit fifty
Speaker 1: houses to kind of even know what you're looking for. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they just they don't know. Um, a lot of students
Speaker 1: you tell them it's a private school and they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's like my high school. But like kids don't know.
Speaker 1: They're like, well, my high school has eighteen hundred students.
Speaker 1: They don't know what that means to go to a
Speaker 1: college with five thousand versus a mid size with like
Speaker 1: fifteen thousand versus a large with thirty thousand, Like they
Speaker 1: don't understand what that means the only way you can
Speaker 1: conceptually get that in your head of what that looks
Speaker 1: like is to go to those schools. So I know,
Speaker 1: if you go to a midsize school and you're like,
Speaker 1: I love it. It was big enough, but small enough, Okay,
Speaker 1: now I know I'm looking for a midsize school. You
Speaker 1: need like a launch like a launching point almost yeah,
Speaker 1: Or it's so funny. I've worked with students. I had
Speaker 1: a student I worked with. Once she was set she
Speaker 1: had to go to California, and I was working with her,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, this girl is always in a sweatshirt.
Speaker 1: She loves ugs. She's always wrapped in a blanket. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, like, you know, you could tell she she
Speaker 1: likes to be snuggled, right, And so I'm like, um,
Speaker 1: are you sure you want to go to California? Well,
Speaker 1: sure enough, she's in Colorado. So I love that you're
Speaker 1: looking at it down to that detail though, like she
Speaker 1: wears us. Maybe maybe Colorado is a good spot. I mean,
Speaker 1: like always, I mean I have students that it's very
Speaker 1: obvious and like, you're not a California girl, like you
Speaker 1: want to be by the mountains and stuff. But they
Speaker 1: don't know right, well, all my friends are going to California,
Speaker 1: Like I must want to go to California. So you know,
Speaker 1: you just got to pay attention to those things and
Speaker 1: what's available to them. Sure. So yeah, what are some
Speaker 1: of the other factors then that are helping you decide
Speaker 1: what what schools people should be applying to? UM major
Speaker 1: is a big one, which sounds really simple, but most
Speaker 1: students don't know what they want to major in, and
Speaker 1: so how do you choose a school and you don't
Speaker 1: even know if they're going to have the program that
Speaker 1: you might want. So we do a lot of career
Speaker 1: coaching and you know, a lot of assessments to figure out, Okay,
Speaker 1: this kid doesn't know what they want to do, but
Speaker 1: based on their personality, they're probably going to go into
Speaker 1: something of this sort, and what are some good schools
Speaker 1: that would support them through that. UM we might be
Speaker 1: looking at larger universities that have so any program offerings
Speaker 1: versus you know, smaller college which is going to be
Speaker 1: more limiting. So you're kind of looking for those things.
Speaker 1: Major a lot of things students might be interested in.
Speaker 1: For example, in Seattle, we have a big obviously big
Speaker 1: tech industry. Well, if you're wanting to be a computer
Speaker 1: science major but you don't want to stay in Seattle,
Speaker 1: you know, we do need to kind of take internship
Speaker 1: opportunities or career opportunities into into that equation. Obviously, the
Speaker 1: big one is the finances, and there's so many myths
Speaker 1: and misconceptions out there where you know, they think, oh,
Speaker 1: I have to go to a public school or in
Speaker 1: state school because that's going to be more affordable. It's
Speaker 1: actually completely not true. I'm actually starting to send a
Speaker 1: lot of students out of state because Washington State just
Speaker 1: doesn't fund our schools very well, and it's so expensive
Speaker 1: to live here that it's actually been so much cheaper
Speaker 1: to go out of state, um than it is to
Speaker 1: stay here at an in state school in Washington. So
Speaker 1: all those little factors of like the finances and major
Speaker 1: and you know, personality, all things have to go into
Speaker 1: making that list of schools. Yeah. Well yeah, let's let's
Speaker 1: let's keep talking about the finances and money. Um, let's
Speaker 1: talk about how to pay for college. So, Alicia, how
Speaker 1: would you recommend for folks to make college more affordable?
Speaker 1: So Number one I would say is start early, like
Speaker 1: we talked about earlier. The earlier we start. Now we're
Speaker 1: not rushing the process. We're getting more money and by
Speaker 1: default we're giving you more options. Right, and now we
Speaker 1: have choices. The other best way to make college affordable.
Speaker 1: And again this is going to save you, guys, a
Speaker 1: lot of money. Maybe not because you have you have
Speaker 1: to know what colleges are more affordable, but the list.
Speaker 1: The easiest way to save money is by the list.
Speaker 1: And that means which schools am I applying to that
Speaker 1: are going to give me the best offer or have
Speaker 1: a lot of components that are going to make school
Speaker 1: affordable for me. So let me give you an example
Speaker 1: of that. So, like I said, in Seattle, colleges not
Speaker 1: only a little bit more expensive, but so expensive to
Speaker 1: live here. Um, the average one bedroom in a bedroom,
Speaker 1: not an apartment, a bedroom near the University of Washington
Speaker 1: and Seattle. There's a bunch of schools in Seattle, but
Speaker 1: all these Seattle schools, the average bedroom is going for
Speaker 1: a month like a bedroom. You can see how expensive
Speaker 1: this is about to get, right, And so most schools
Speaker 1: here are going for about thirty dollars a year. That
Speaker 1: is in state tuition. Guys, that's why I get really
Speaker 1: mad when people are like, oh, you guys just you know,
Speaker 1: spend money on beer and like blah blah blah. I'm like,
Speaker 1: you guys have no idea. It is so expensive to
Speaker 1: go to school here, even in state. It's ridiculous. So
Speaker 1: it's just expensive. However, like a good example is, I
Speaker 1: was I just sent one of my kids to a
Speaker 1: school in the Midwest, out of state public school. However,
Speaker 1: if you're a good student and have good grades, um,
Speaker 1: and they're not even super high it's like a three
Speaker 1: four or something, they will basically give you a scholarship
Speaker 1: to make it the equivalent of in state tuition. So
Speaker 1: it's like nine thousand or ten thousand a year in state,
Speaker 1: which is pretty normal, um, lower than what it is
Speaker 1: in Washington State. However, a bedroom is going for two
Speaker 1: and fifty dollars a month. Yeah, this school in particular
Speaker 1: also has one of the best honors programs. They have
Speaker 1: tons of basically the same options, um that you would
Speaker 1: have here at some of our larger state schools. But
Speaker 1: you're paying two or fifty bucks for a bedroom. So
Speaker 1: the cost savings, I mean when you do the math
Speaker 1: on it, I mean, it was saving like fifteen grand
Speaker 1: a year or something like that. So it's just so
Speaker 1: worth it to send your kid out a state. They're
Speaker 1: gonna have more opportunities. The other difference being Seattle so competitive,
Speaker 1: especially if you're in like tech or nursing or like medicine.
Speaker 1: Here it's just so developed that it's just hard to
Speaker 1: get internships and paid positions. Well in the Midwest not
Speaker 1: so competitive in in those industries. So I'm actually having
Speaker 1: students it's cheaper and they're getting a lot more opportunities
Speaker 1: for internships by going to some of those schools versus
Speaker 1: trying to stay in state. So that's just one example.
Speaker 1: There's a million like that. There's a lot of ways
Speaker 1: to do it, but choosing the right school, having a
Speaker 1: strategy for what that list look like, that is a
Speaker 1: very good way to save money. Yeah, So so it
Speaker 1: sounds like keeping the cost slow obviously crucial, and and
Speaker 1: that going out of state can help with that, especially
Speaker 1: you know, if you live in an expensive state like Washington.
Speaker 1: But that's one side of the value equation. If we're
Speaker 1: talking about like what your degree is worth when you graduate,
Speaker 1: how how much are you taking that into the equation too?
Speaker 1: For these students who you know, like, what are they
Speaker 1: potentially going to make in their first couple of years
Speaker 1: out of school? And how important is that in the
Speaker 1: decision making process. Oh, that's huge. Um, we run the
Speaker 1: numbers on that when we meet, and you know, we'll
Speaker 1: recommend different things. So like, for example, if you're going
Speaker 1: to be in like let's say you're gonna be a
Speaker 1: mechanical engineer, I know all the numbers for national averages
Speaker 1: for careers, so quick math in my head, Like, I know,
Speaker 1: if you're a new mechanical engineer Seattle area average market whatever,
Speaker 1: like the average is about sixty first year, right, first
Speaker 1: five years. However, I also know once you're about five
Speaker 1: years out, you get a huge pay bump, right, so
Speaker 1: you can spend a little bit more money on your degree.
Speaker 1: If you're going to make good money, you know, five
Speaker 1: ten years down the road, right, versus somebody who is
Speaker 1: going to be like a creative writing major or a
Speaker 1: teacher or you know, these things that are very very
Speaker 1: minimal increases. Marketing majors, for example, don't make good money
Speaker 1: for quite a while toor that much later down their
Speaker 1: careers generally, So if you're going to do that, we
Speaker 1: need to be very cognizant and I'm gonna honestly be
Speaker 1: taking a lot of options away from you if you're
Speaker 1: not a family that can pay cash. We need to
Speaker 1: be more strategic, because you know, it's so funny, so
Speaker 1: many pair rents. They want to be supportive of their kids.
Speaker 1: They're like, oh, my kid got this opportunity, and so
Speaker 1: like they'll go into so much debt to get their
Speaker 1: kids through school. And I'm like, and I'm actually about
Speaker 1: to write a blog post on this where i think
Speaker 1: my headline is going to be something like, please stop
Speaker 1: supporting your children, Like stop because you're supporting your kids
Speaker 1: and I'm using air quotes and you're going and I
Speaker 1: just had a family call me last week. They're going
Speaker 1: to go into hundred seventy thousand dollars in student loan
Speaker 1: debt because their kid got into this school and they
Speaker 1: really want to go to the school and it's like
Speaker 1: their dreams. And I'm like, you're not supporting your kid
Speaker 1: by putting him in almost two thousand dollars of debts,
Speaker 1: Like stop, Like you are not helping your child. And
Speaker 1: a seventeen year old just isn't equipped to make that
Speaker 1: decision right. Yeah, And that's the thing. We can't blame
Speaker 1: the kid, Like again, she doesn't know, like she has
Speaker 1: no concept of how much money that is. And so
Speaker 1: mom and dad are like, well, I don't want to
Speaker 1: not support her, but you know, it's like you have
Speaker 1: to take that into the equation that's a bad idea.
Speaker 1: We can find a school that will be just as great,
Speaker 1: you know, just as great of a fit. She'll have
Speaker 1: a great career opportunity. But let's do it where she's
Speaker 1: not going into hundred seventy thousand in debt. That's just
Speaker 1: assinine to me. Yeah. Well, so okay, let's talk about
Speaker 1: scholarships and grants right paying for school that way? Is
Speaker 1: there a best way to approach searching and applying for
Speaker 1: you know, for these funds, And if a family or
Speaker 1: a student doesn't do a great job finding these scholarships
Speaker 1: that are out there, like, how much money are they
Speaker 1: potentially leaving on the table if they neglect this step? Yeah,
Speaker 1: So the first step is we're pulling money from many
Speaker 1: different sources. So that's why like these little things, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're going to be very strategic and where you're applying
Speaker 1: to because I know, if you go to these schools,
Speaker 1: you'll get this offer. And if you go to this school,
Speaker 1: you're going to get this offer. And there's schools that
Speaker 1: are just notorious, like I just know what your offer
Speaker 1: is going to be because it's just they're like the
Speaker 1: always the same. And so we're being strategic there. We're
Speaker 1: pullying money in those ways. Now we have a gap
Speaker 1: to fill. So let's say the school is going to
Speaker 1: be a hundred thousand dollars including all living expenses, all
Speaker 1: in over four years, and they give you enough to
Speaker 1: cover half, so we need to come up with fifty
Speaker 1: dollars and other money. Lots of different ways to do that,
Speaker 1: but the private scholarship route, people don't realize how much
Speaker 1: work it is, how much time it takes. We actually
Speaker 1: have like a full scholarship program. But just to give
Speaker 1: you an example, we just finished a scholarship list for
Speaker 1: a student. It's a hundred scholarships that they qualify for.
Speaker 1: It took our research team almost thirty hours just to
Speaker 1: find a hundred scholarships. So that's not even the application process,
Speaker 1: that's just finding the ones. That's just finding scholarships that
Speaker 1: you qualify for that are customized to you, that took
Speaker 1: thirty hours, So yeah, I used to I have to
Speaker 1: do all the work, but yeah, I'm not trying to
Speaker 1: go to jail this year, so um yeah. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it takes a lot of research time, and so what
Speaker 1: happens is kids give up and so it takes a
Speaker 1: lot of time. However, like once you find those scholarships,
Speaker 1: now you're just writing the essays and that kind of stuff,
Speaker 1: so it becomes more manageable. But still I think so
Speaker 1: I just did a video on this a few months ago,
Speaker 1: so I have to remember the statistics. But it's like
Speaker 1: enough scholarship money goes unclaimed every year where it would
Speaker 1: pay full tuition, room and board for fourteen thousand students
Speaker 1: a year. So it's it's a lot of left So
Speaker 1: I always tell students start local. Go to your counseling office.
Speaker 1: Usually there's like a bulletin board or a book or
Speaker 1: something that they'll have scholarships, you know, and and applied
Speaker 1: us a lot of difference. It takes a lot of time,
Speaker 1: So don't just apply to like five scholarships and think
Speaker 1: that's that's okay. Invest in it. But the national statistic
Speaker 1: is you're going to get one intent that you apply
Speaker 1: for I will tell you in practice, it's like one
Speaker 1: in fifteen and the average scholarship award is like about
Speaker 1: and that's tax free, and you guys know what that means.
Speaker 1: That's a lot of money for a college student to
Speaker 1: get tax free. So it's definitely worth it to go
Speaker 1: through that process. Are there any online resources that are
Speaker 1: super helpful in your opinion for people who are trying
Speaker 1: to dig up scholarships for themselves? Honestly, no, not really
Speaker 1: really wish I wish I had a better answer for you,
Speaker 1: but I mean there's definitely a lot of online resources.
Speaker 1: There's obviously like fast Web and apps like scholar. The
Speaker 1: problem is you're really having to like search and find them, honestly,
Speaker 1: Like if you know how to bullyand search, like bullyand
Speaker 1: searching is the best way to really start digging into them.
Speaker 1: So much good information here, Alicia, and you know, we've
Speaker 1: got a few more questions for you, including kind of
Speaker 1: how to tackle student loans on the flip side when
Speaker 1: you're out of college, and we'll get to that right
Speaker 1: after the break. All right, we're back from the break.
Speaker 1: We're talking with Alicia Howard about navigating some of these
Speaker 1: tricky college decisions. And at least, you know, we we
Speaker 1: just talked about some of the different ways to pay
Speaker 1: for college. We've talked about scholarships, grants. Um, is there
Speaker 1: like any type of funding basically for college that, yeah,
Speaker 1: that you feel that we haven't covered yet. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: one other little trick I use for students, and something
Speaker 1: they really don't think about, is just being cognizant of
Speaker 1: where you're working and where you're applying to jobs. And
Speaker 1: so when you're most students are starting to work while
Speaker 1: they're in college. Um, I'm actually seeing a huge downward
Speaker 1: trend in that. It's really amazing me at how many
Speaker 1: parents don't want their kids to work ever, But I
Speaker 1: really encourage students to work in school for many, many,
Speaker 1: many reasons, and research actually supports that it's actually significantly
Speaker 1: better for students in many ways to work while they're
Speaker 1: in school. But one thing I didn't know, because I
Speaker 1: I did work my way through school. I is averaging
Speaker 1: um about thirty hours a week in school. Sometimes I
Speaker 1: dropped down to twenty. But I always always worked when
Speaker 1: I was in college, and it wasn't until I started
Speaker 1: getting into this line of work that I started learning
Speaker 1: I really screwed up and that because I was working,
Speaker 1: but I was making minimum wage and you know, trading
Speaker 1: time for money. And there's so many companies that offer
Speaker 1: you know, education benefits and you don't have to be
Speaker 1: a manager or high up. Like if you're working and
Speaker 1: you're working whatever, twenty hours a week, thirty hours a week,
Speaker 1: whatever it is, they will pay for a lot of
Speaker 1: your college. And so like one example of this here
Speaker 1: in Seattle, we have T Mobile is based here, as
Speaker 1: is Dick Strive In, which is like our it's like
Speaker 1: our in and out Burger. But even at Dick Strive
Speaker 1: In it's a fast food restaurant. If you work there
Speaker 1: in college, you make right now the wage of seventeen
Speaker 1: an hour, So it's two dollars over minimum wage in Seattle.
Speaker 1: But if you work there, I want to say, it's
Speaker 1: twenty hours a week, don't quote me on that. They
Speaker 1: will pay it's like six thousand dollars a year or
Speaker 1: something tuition. Yeah, so they have really low turnover rates
Speaker 1: for for fast it's like a six gave bonus that
Speaker 1: goes towards school. Every single This is every year, I
Speaker 1: think it's is it every year? No, it's quite a lot,
Speaker 1: because I think it's like twenty thousand for four years
Speaker 1: or something that's incredible. Yeah, it's it's quite a lot.
Speaker 1: And then like, again don't quote me on this, but
Speaker 1: like I don't see mobile. If you work thirty hours
Speaker 1: a week and it could be call center, it doesn't
Speaker 1: have to be in like the stores. They also give
Speaker 1: you it's like whatever five six, seven thousand dollars in
Speaker 1: in tuition assistance as well. And so I ran the
Speaker 1: numbers on this once for myself. Obviously I went to
Speaker 1: college like ten fifteen years ago. But when I ran
Speaker 1: the numbers on it, one think about it. They paid more.
Speaker 1: Like I was a hostess at a Mexican restaurant, so
Speaker 1: like it was a minimum wage, so they got paid more,
Speaker 1: and on average it was like whatever, sevent eight bucks
Speaker 1: an hour more. So it's significantly it was more pay.
Speaker 1: Plus you got you know, the tuition reimbursement. Plus People
Speaker 1: don't think of this, but like, how much better would
Speaker 1: my resume have been? Patted not just being a hostess
Speaker 1: but actually working for a corporation where I learned more skills.
Speaker 1: But I didn't. I didn't know that. Yeah, and half
Speaker 1: the battle is knowing. And that's why we wanted to
Speaker 1: have you on is because there are these things that
Speaker 1: people need to know, and yeah, where you work is
Speaker 1: one of those things that people need to know, right
Speaker 1: and and so yeah, that's a great tip. I love that.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you to. I've seen some videos
Speaker 1: that you've created at Lasia and you've talked about how
Speaker 1: that there are additional challenges that immigrant families face. And
Speaker 1: you're an immigrant yourself, how is the college application process different?
Speaker 1: And what do immigrant families need to be aware of
Speaker 1: when they're applying to colleges? Yeah, so immigrant family, So
Speaker 1: it's interesting. So I'm American, but I lived in South
Speaker 1: Korea for six years and wasn't higher read there. So
Speaker 1: it's interesting because I've been on that side where like
Speaker 1: I was working in higher ed in Korea, and like
Speaker 1: I had to learn a new system even working there.
Speaker 1: And then you know, like I worked with my families
Speaker 1: here and a lot of them, you know, are really
Speaker 1: well educated. I have a lot of families, like their
Speaker 1: parents work at Microsoft, and you know, they're very well educated.
Speaker 1: But they're like I went to college in whatever India
Speaker 1: or Japan or like wherever I'm from. It's just a
Speaker 1: very different system. So for immigrant families, it's just very
Speaker 1: important to really spend time learning the system um and
Speaker 1: what you see a lot, especially in certain families is
Speaker 1: especially people from like Asian countries, and I use that
Speaker 1: term loosely, it's very test score heavy and so it's
Speaker 1: very like steady, get good grades, get a good s,
Speaker 1: a T score, and then what happens is like students
Speaker 1: kind of fall off in other areas, right, Like they're
Speaker 1: not as well rounded, they're not as involved, they don't
Speaker 1: have the leadership skills, and that really hurts them because again,
Speaker 1: like if you're applying to Harvard and everybody has good
Speaker 1: grades and test scores, how are you going to stand out?
Speaker 1: And that's just we're seeing that at every school of
Speaker 1: every level. So it's just certain things of like really
Speaker 1: learning the system in the US and what that means.
Speaker 1: And that's really hard for parents because like in you know,
Speaker 1: your culture impacts you're parenting, right, and so it's really
Speaker 1: hard for a lot of families to be like, oh man,
Speaker 1: I might need my kid to maybe doesn't take that
Speaker 1: extra a P class or whatever, because I need them
Speaker 1: to do this this other thing to be more more
Speaker 1: well rounded. Um, you have a lot of cultures who
Speaker 1: don't value education as much, and so it's really hard
Speaker 1: when you have a kid who wants to go to
Speaker 1: school and you're working with the family who's like, what
Speaker 1: are you talking about, just like go get a job
Speaker 1: as a dishwasher. So you're kind of balancing those different
Speaker 1: cultures and those different those different issues, and so it's
Speaker 1: just it's finding that balance of ultimately the end of
Speaker 1: the day, I work for my kid, right which a
Speaker 1: lot of parents don't like to hear, but I want
Speaker 1: what's best for the kid, and so navigating like the
Speaker 1: cultural issue, the language barriers, all those things, it's just
Speaker 1: helpful for them to get a good understanding of how
Speaker 1: it works here in the US. That's crazy. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: so much more to it than just what the parent wants.
Speaker 1: And you know, there's just like the cultural expectations of
Speaker 1: the parents. I'm sure that you also have to kind
Speaker 1: of deal with. How about like military families as well.
Speaker 1: Are there some specific hurdles that you feel that they
Speaker 1: have to face. We we recently had an episode with
Speaker 1: Doug Nordman and we kind of talked about the g
Speaker 1: I Bill and just kind of the different benefits that
Speaker 1: military families can experience, but what about some of the hurdles,
Speaker 1: some of the obstacles. So for military families, So I
Speaker 1: did a lot of this when I lived in Korea
Speaker 1: because I lived across the street from the main military base.
Speaker 1: So I actually started my emissions career with a lot
Speaker 1: of military families. So the big thing one is especially
Speaker 1: if they've been abroad for a long time. I mean,
Speaker 1: you go to the school on base, so they have
Speaker 1: the like kind of American education system. But the truth
Speaker 1: is is like they've kind of been out of this
Speaker 1: system for a long time. Um, and it's it's different
Speaker 1: when you're abroad. It's a different feeling, it's a different
Speaker 1: I mean, ex pats, if anybody any of you've been expats,
Speaker 1: it's just a different culture. And so a lot of
Speaker 1: military families, like you have kids who have been abroad
Speaker 1: for a very long time or you know, obviously they've
Speaker 1: moved around a lot, and that creates a disconnect between resources.
Speaker 1: Right You're you're switching teachers a lot, You're switching counselors
Speaker 1: a lot. You might not be able to get the
Speaker 1: best letter of recommendation because you you know, you've moved
Speaker 1: so much, your teachers are moved because their DoD teachers,
Speaker 1: and so those are kind of specific things from military
Speaker 1: families and it's totally doable. You just have to work
Speaker 1: around it. So staying in communication. If there's a teacher
Speaker 1: that you really liked but they left or you left,
Speaker 1: you might just have to say, hey, would you mind
Speaker 1: if we stayed pen pals so that we can maintain
Speaker 1: this relationship because I'm applying to college next year and
Speaker 1: I might need that letter of wreck or you know
Speaker 1: whatever that looks like. But you just have to be
Speaker 1: a little bit more strategic and how you navigate the process. Hey,
Speaker 1: let's talk about student loans for a second, Alicia. And
Speaker 1: there is of course, like a crisis is like an
Speaker 1: overused word in our country, but I feel like, you know,
Speaker 1: student loans, they definitely hate a crisis level for sure.
Speaker 1: And so do you have any rules of thumb for
Speaker 1: how much in student loan debt a potential college student
Speaker 1: should take on, because yeah, obviously you're trying to do
Speaker 1: your best to help them go to college for cheaper free,
Speaker 1: but if they do have to take out student loans,
Speaker 1: how do you kind of help them think through that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think the first thing is like people
Speaker 1: talk about student loans like they're bad. I don't think
Speaker 1: that they're not bad. They're bad if they get out
Speaker 1: of control and are excessive, right, Like I have no
Speaker 1: problem if someone needs to go take out ten thousand dollars,
Speaker 1: Like ten thousand dollars is doable, right, you can get
Speaker 1: through that. It's it's when it gets excessive in whatever
Speaker 1: your circumstances are. So a few things. One is I
Speaker 1: look at salary the first year out of school. The
Speaker 1: general role like most financial issers I'm sure you guys
Speaker 1: know that is it shouldn't be more than your first
Speaker 1: year's salary. However, I will say, like I prefer it
Speaker 1: to be half of your first year's salary now sometimes
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, and but again it depends what you're going
Speaker 1: to go into. So again, if you're gonna be like
Speaker 1: an engineer, okay, like I in your first year salary
Speaker 1: sixty thousand a year, that's actually like I don't want
Speaker 1: you to take that out, but it's survivable because again,
Speaker 1: like five years down the road, you're probably gonna be
Speaker 1: making well into the six figures. So like a sixty
Speaker 1: thou dollars and student loans. That's about a six to
Speaker 1: seven monthly payment. That's doable when you're taking home eight
Speaker 1: thousand dollars a month, right, So it just depends what
Speaker 1: you're gonna have versus I have a client actually just
Speaker 1: talked to a client the other day. You know, they're chiropractors,
Speaker 1: married couple combined. They have over five hundred thousand dollars
Speaker 1: in student loan debt. Well, they're making seventy thousand each
Speaker 1: a year. So like when you're making seventy in a
Speaker 1: year and you have two or fifty thousand dollars in debt,
Speaker 1: that's not doable. Yeah, So I always sit with families,
Speaker 1: We've run the numbers and we're like okay. Like again,
Speaker 1: like one client I had last week, I tried to
Speaker 1: talk the family out of it, but they just wouldn't
Speaker 1: listen to me. But they're like, yeah, we're gonna go
Speaker 1: into a hundred seventy thousand dollars in debt for our kid.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, i'll tell you a hundred seventy
Speaker 1: thousand dollars is that's going to be about a two
Speaker 1: thousand dollar monthly payment and your kid's gonna be making
Speaker 1: like forty thou dollars a year, So like, I don't
Speaker 1: know how you think you're going to make a two
Speaker 1: thousand dollar monthly payment making forty tho your take home
Speaker 1: is like, you know, whatever it is. Yeah, And so
Speaker 1: that's one thing too. We're also gonna look at the
Speaker 1: type of loans you're going to take out. So when
Speaker 1: you get to debt that high, you're going to max
Speaker 1: out your student loans, you're gonna max out parent loans
Speaker 1: most people, which means you're taking out private loans. Now,
Speaker 1: government loans I can work with, Like, there's all kinds
Speaker 1: of different tricks and loopholes and there's ways we can
Speaker 1: deal with that. Private loans. I just I don't have
Speaker 1: the options as much, Like you're kind of screwed. So
Speaker 1: you know, we're looking at we're looking at that if
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to come out with a bunch of
Speaker 1: private debt, it's not a good idea. So we just
Speaker 1: have to run those numbers. And it's different for everybody.
Speaker 1: And then we're going to say, like I'll be the
Speaker 1: bad guy and say no, you're not going to that school.
Speaker 1: That's a bad offer based on your grades, based on
Speaker 1: all these factors you really should be getting this, so
Speaker 1: that school is not giving you a good offer. It's
Speaker 1: off the list. Well, Alicia, So I wanted to touch
Speaker 1: on this. You mentioned on your site, how like many
Speaker 1: folks they don't know about these loopholes right to find
Speaker 1: free money to help pay back student loans. What is
Speaker 1: that all about? Are you up for sharing sharing your
Speaker 1: insights there? Yeah? Yeah, So what people not realize is um,
Speaker 1: like if you look at like taxes, right, Like tax
Speaker 1: law is very stringent, right, that's why there's tax attorneys
Speaker 1: and cias and stuff. And yes, there are some loopholes,
Speaker 1: and of course, you know, politicians argue about closing these
Speaker 1: loopholes whatever, but for the most part, like it's fairly
Speaker 1: black and white, right, We've closed a lot of these
Speaker 1: loopoles over the years, and people who know the loopholes
Speaker 1: kind of know the loopholes student loans are. It's very new,
Speaker 1: and so there's a lot of loopholes that have not
Speaker 1: been closed. So let me gibe like an example of this,
Speaker 1: because it's so easy. When I lived in Korea, I
Speaker 1: pay taxes and Korea, right, I was employed at a
Speaker 1: university there, and because of that, I don't pay taxes
Speaker 1: in the US, right, So I filed my taxes every year,
Speaker 1: but I got to turn in this really cool form
Speaker 1: that basically says, hey, I live abroad, I don't need
Speaker 1: to pay taxes here. Well what does that do? That
Speaker 1: means my student loan payment I didn't have to pay
Speaker 1: because my payment was a zero. But how was I
Speaker 1: able to do that? It's because I was able to
Speaker 1: be very strategic and how I filed my paperwork, and
Speaker 1: I had so many friends that what ended up happening was,
Speaker 1: remember this was like years ago. I didn't I wasn't
Speaker 1: like an expert. I was just trying to figure it
Speaker 1: out for myself at that point. And I had worked
Speaker 1: with all these other Americans in my office, and I
Speaker 1: had so many of them with debt. Well they were
Speaker 1: still paying on their loans, and so I was like, well,
Speaker 1: I can file this paperwork for like So it was funny.
Speaker 1: I used to sit there and like do people's taxes
Speaker 1: on the subway and stuff and file this paperwork. And
Speaker 1: one of my friends, actually, this last year, he's about
Speaker 1: to get his debt forgiven that way, so he's never
Speaker 1: had to pay a single dollar on his student loans. Um,
Speaker 1: and it's about to be actually forgiven here. Um, we
Speaker 1: just filed the paperwork for it, so you can get
Speaker 1: it forgiven. But you want to pay as little as possible,
Speaker 1: that's one strategy. It really depends what you're trying to do.
Speaker 1: That's cool. That's so much great info in this conversation, Alicia.
Speaker 1: We thoroughly enjoyed it, and thank you so much for
Speaker 1: coming on. Can you kind of tell our listeners where
Speaker 1: they can find out more info about you? Yes? Um,
Speaker 1: so our company has called Insights, that's with an S,
Speaker 1: and they can find us at college insights dot com. Uh.
Speaker 1: They can also call us at four to five five
Speaker 1: zero seven nine zero six nine. Um. They can also
Speaker 1: follow us on LinkedIn, Instagram, and Facebook under college Insights
Speaker 1: all the socials. Yeah, I was I was thinking kind
Speaker 1: of as we're going through all of this, so much
Speaker 1: of this could be overwhelming for maybe a parent of
Speaker 1: a high schooler or even high school who's realizing that, hey,
Speaker 1: there's so much more that we need to consider, mom
Speaker 1: and dad, and so this is great information. But I'm
Speaker 1: glad that folks can also give you a ring if
Speaker 1: they need that additional help. Yeah, we have tons of
Speaker 1: free resources on there, and like my big thing is access. Right,
Speaker 1: Like again, I started this business not to make money.
Speaker 1: It's because I really love my kids. Like right, I'm
Speaker 1: a teacher, so um everything for us, like consultations, those
Speaker 1: are always free. If people are like, hey, worst case scenario,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you call me back in a year
Speaker 1: or two if you're too early. So it's it's not
Speaker 1: like it hurts to make that phone call. And then
Speaker 1: we can walk you through it and say, hey, this
Speaker 1: is what this is where you're at, this is where
Speaker 1: you need to be, these are the steps to get there,
Speaker 1: and then it's really just up to you of how
Speaker 1: you want to navigate that process. Awesome, Well, Alicia, thanks
Speaker 1: again for joining us. We really appreciate it. Yeah, thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you for having me. Yeah, thanks Alicia. All Right,
Speaker 1: Joel Man, that was such a fantastic interview. We covered
Speaker 1: such an array of of information, like everything having to
Speaker 1: do with college admissions, paying for it. We covered so much.
Speaker 1: I want to know what was your big takeaway from
Speaker 1: this episode? Man? I feel like we only scratched the surface.
Speaker 1: There's like so much more we could have asked, so
Speaker 1: much more. We could have gotten into. But the biggest
Speaker 1: takeaway from me was when Alicia said, apply early, apply
Speaker 1: really early, and it's gonna save you potentially tens of
Speaker 1: thousands of dollars. And I love that. Yeah, there's more
Speaker 1: money there. Like it. Just it makes so much sense
Speaker 1: for you as a high school student, if you're listening
Speaker 1: to the show, or you as a parent of a
Speaker 1: high school student, to apply to your college of choice
Speaker 1: super early on in the fall, if you want to
Speaker 1: get a good offer letter, if you want that school
Speaker 1: of your choice to offer you more funds to go
Speaker 1: there than apply early. I'm totally with you. That one
Speaker 1: stood out to me. I really like that one, and
Speaker 1: so mine. All right. My big thing was when she
Speaker 1: was talking about considering other things, other expenses other than
Speaker 1: just the cost of school. Right, she mentioned that school
Speaker 1: in the Midwest that was going to be two hundred
Speaker 1: bucks for a room as opposed to dollars. Huge price
Speaker 1: discrepancy there. That's that's massive. And I think a lot
Speaker 1: of times as students, uh certainly as parents, you focus
Speaker 1: so much on the school. You focus on the education,
Speaker 1: you're thinking about the dreams and the hopes, just everything
Speaker 1: that kind of goes into it. And maybe you're thinking
Speaker 1: about the cost of college, but like a tertiary thought is, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: by the way, like what is the cost of living
Speaker 1: in that town. I think that's something that a lot
Speaker 1: of folks are not considering, and if we keep that
Speaker 1: in mind, I think that's going to have a large
Speaker 1: impact on the overall cost of college. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: that price that's a thousand dollars a month over at
Speaker 1: I mean you're talking twelve tho dollars a year just
Speaker 1: to go to school elsewhere, and yeah, over four years,
Speaker 1: and that's that's a huge amount of money. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: where you go to school, the cost of living there,
Speaker 1: that's a huge thing to consider, Matt. All right, Matt,
Speaker 1: So let's get back to the beer that we had
Speaker 1: on the show today. We drank a beer called Hot
Speaker 1: Foo by North Park Beer Company, and listener John sent
Speaker 1: this one our way. Yeah, well it's written like kung fu. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel like I should like karate chop yours any
Speaker 1: optical glasses we quick or something? Don't hit me bro u. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: what were your thoughts on this beer? This is a
Speaker 1: West Coast style. I p a man, it's been a
Speaker 1: while since I've had a West Coast style. I mean,
Speaker 1: I feel like everybody's going with happy, juicy New England
Speaker 1: style I p a s. And so it was really
Speaker 1: actually refreshing to have something a little more harshly bitter,
Speaker 1: which is what the West Coast style typically brings. It
Speaker 1: was abrasively bitter, and I dug it. It's like this
Speaker 1: great change of pace from the kind of the stuff
Speaker 1: I'm normally drinking these days. And so I really enjoyed
Speaker 1: kind of having a West Coast ip A, going back
Speaker 1: to the I p A s that I was kind
Speaker 1: of brought up on right the ones that I first
Speaker 1: got into when I first started drinking beer. So this
Speaker 1: one was a really great example of a West Coast
Speaker 1: I p A. I dug it. So this is an
Speaker 1: instance where you and I are going to disagree a
Speaker 1: little bit, Okay, bring it, because yeah, like this is
Speaker 1: a West Coast IPEA. But for me, I felt like
Speaker 1: that this one actually was, like, was really juicy for
Speaker 1: a West Coast I PA. Like to me, it wasn't
Speaker 1: really resonie and like overly bitter, and so I felt
Speaker 1: like it had some of those New England style I
Speaker 1: p A characteristics. Really Okay, certainly it had that hot presence,
Speaker 1: but it felt really juicy to me, and so because
Speaker 1: of that, I like this a little more than I
Speaker 1: tend to like West Coast I pas from. Yeah, West
Speaker 1: Coast ips aren't typically my go to, But maybe that's
Speaker 1: why you felt that this one was refreshing and delectable.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe maybe because this one kind of met me
Speaker 1: somewhere in the middle. Although it did, I did feel
Speaker 1: like it was kind of more abrasively bitter, a good
Speaker 1: bit more abbrasively bitter than a typical juicy style I PA.
Speaker 1: And just because I don't drink it's very often, it
Speaker 1: was nice. Yeah, it definitely was nice. And we're really
Speaker 1: appreciative of John for doting this beer to the show
Speaker 1: and Joel, that's gonna be it for this episode. If
Speaker 1: you want to find a link to Alicia's website, College Insights,
Speaker 1: you can head over to our show notes at how
Speaker 1: It's of Money dot Com. Yeah, man, we we've actually
Speaker 1: had some questions in the Facebook group recently about how
Speaker 1: people can find the right credit card for them, and
Speaker 1: we wrote a piece on our website. You can go
Speaker 1: straight to how the Money dot Com slash credit cards
Speaker 1: and you can find our favorite credit cards for how
Speaker 1: you spend, because we all spend money differently, and the
Speaker 1: best credit card for you might not be the best
Speaker 1: credit card for somebody else, So check that out if
Speaker 1: you're interested, and if you sign up for a card
Speaker 1: on our website, it does support the podcast Our Buddy.
Speaker 1: Until next time, Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,