WEBVTT - Nada Surf 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:15.956 Pushkin. 0:00:20.316 --> 0:00:22.756 Indie rock band Not a Serf first hit big on 0:00:22.796 --> 0:00:26.316 college radio in ninety six with their driving guitar forward 0:00:26.396 --> 0:00:30.316 song Popular. The band had started playing together four years 0:00:30.356 --> 0:00:33.556 earlier while attending college in Vermont, but they're perhaps best 0:00:33.636 --> 0:00:36.156 known as a New York City band where their lead 0:00:36.156 --> 0:00:40.476 singer and primary songwriter, Matthew Kaus came of age. Kus 0:00:40.596 --> 0:00:43.676 is known as a vulnerable and often reflective songwriter who 0:00:43.756 --> 0:00:47.356 tackles everything from social anxiety to politics in his work. 0:00:48.316 --> 0:00:50.876 Not a Serf's latest album, Moon Mir is the band's 0:00:50.916 --> 0:00:53.956 tenth studio album, and it's every bit as introspective and 0:00:54.036 --> 0:00:57.916 at times hard hitting as ever. On today's episode, Bruce 0:00:57.916 --> 0:01:00.636 Helm talks to Matthew Kabs about growing up on Manhattan's 0:01:00.676 --> 0:01:03.556 Upper West Side in a house filled with baroque music 0:01:04.156 --> 0:01:06.556 and how he thinks some of the classical instrumentation may 0:01:06.596 --> 0:01:10.556 have influenced his own writing. Matthew also recalls the time 0:01:10.676 --> 0:01:13.036 Not a Serf backed up Joey Ramone and played a 0:01:13.116 --> 0:01:17.276 full Ramone set at Coney Island High Plus. He performs 0:01:17.316 --> 0:01:19.956 two songs from Not a Serf's latest album, moon Mer 0:01:20.236 --> 0:01:26.236 Forest Live. This is broken record Liner notes for the 0:01:26.276 --> 0:01:34.836 Digital Age I'm justin Ritchman. Here's Bruce headlam with Matthew Cars. 0:02:01.556 --> 0:02:04.356 This a new propeller. 0:02:06.876 --> 0:02:19.876 Turning up by. There's a whooful spinning digging a saw grace. 0:02:22.876 --> 0:02:34.996 There's growing menu of preanu mistakes, same old ground I've 0:02:35.076 --> 0:02:55.876 always walked on. Now they call it face dopy free. 0:02:58.956 --> 0:03:05.556 You won't be replaced, don'py. 0:03:05.516 --> 0:03:22.196 Free, you won't bearing. There's a new day coming. We 0:03:22.716 --> 0:03:24.196 don't know its name. 0:03:27.236 --> 0:03:37.636 There's new methods bruin. Some will be the same. There's 0:03:38.156 --> 0:03:49.156 growing feeling going down the drain. Same old ground I've 0:03:49.196 --> 0:03:54.716 always walked on. There's always new pain. 0:04:08.156 --> 0:04:24.036 Don't be fred you will belted. Don't bet you will belt. 0:04:30.996 --> 0:04:41.516 There's a brando flavor, a seat again, its taste. There's 0:04:41.516 --> 0:04:49.836 a brand new picture. Color has gone to waste. 0:04:51.316 --> 0:04:58.956 There's a growing feeling nobody is chased. 0:05:01.116 --> 0:05:08.476 Same old ground I've always walked on. Sliding in the lake. 0:05:21.516 --> 0:05:27.876 You felt a bright white law. You gave it a name. Man, 0:05:28.076 --> 0:05:34.276 you said a prize. Okay, then may be a guy 0:05:36.236 --> 0:05:41.796 and they love you with all the hall. But there's 0:05:41.916 --> 0:05:44.556 no place underground. 0:05:46.676 --> 0:06:18.876 There is no devil has We're alone. 0:06:18.316 --> 0:06:23.756 But you are the door prize. Watch it go it's. 0:06:24.796 --> 0:06:31.156 Twilin We're alone, but you are the door prize. 0:06:32.036 --> 0:06:36.156 Watch it go. It's lovely twil. 0:06:41.596 --> 0:06:44.836 Matthew cause, thank you so much from not a Surf 0:06:44.916 --> 0:06:49.036 coming in to talk about your new album Moon Mirror. Yeah, 0:06:49.076 --> 0:06:51.636 and we have lots to talk about. Great and I 0:06:51.716 --> 0:06:53.276 wanted to get to that song, so we're going to 0:06:53.316 --> 0:06:56.156 start with it. You did, Okay, tell me about that song. 0:06:56.996 --> 0:07:00.516 Well, I started writing it a long time ago. You know, 0:07:00.556 --> 0:07:04.316 sometimes start something and finish it right away, but sometimes 0:07:04.956 --> 0:07:06.716 you know, write half and put it away for a 0:07:06.756 --> 0:07:09.756 few years. And I was writing this one when Trump 0:07:09.836 --> 0:07:12.756 was running for office the first time, and I he 0:07:13.116 --> 0:07:16.556 and Mago, which maybe at the time wasn't exactly called that, 0:07:16.676 --> 0:07:19.916 but that feeling seemed to me like a like a 0:07:19.956 --> 0:07:25.636 giant cruise ship propeller turning up the water and destabilizing things. 0:07:26.356 --> 0:07:30.316 And then when I got to the line, don't be 0:07:30.356 --> 0:07:32.956 afraid you won't be replaced, I was a bit nervous 0:07:32.956 --> 0:07:35.116 about it because what I was thinking about was people 0:07:35.196 --> 0:07:41.516 who have a demographic paranoia, who are afraid that they'll 0:07:41.556 --> 0:07:46.516 be replaced by another race, or immigrants in general, you know, 0:07:46.556 --> 0:07:49.676 And I was thinking, in very simple terms, you are 0:07:49.716 --> 0:07:53.876 alive and you will live out your life. You can't 0:07:53.916 --> 0:07:57.236 be replaced, you know, the way like jealousy doesn't help, 0:07:58.476 --> 0:08:01.836 this fear isn't going to help anybody's life, you know, 0:08:02.236 --> 0:08:04.076 and maybe that's not the point of it. Anyway, of 0:08:04.076 --> 0:08:08.316 that fear, you know, it's a road to blame, to 0:08:08.356 --> 0:08:10.476 blame other people for whatever you have going on, and 0:08:11.596 --> 0:08:14.716 then a road also to anger as a relief, you know. 0:08:14.836 --> 0:08:17.276 I think anger is a relief to people. Blame is 0:08:17.316 --> 0:08:18.716 a relief to people because then you don't have to 0:08:18.756 --> 0:08:21.356 feel your own troubles. But anyway, I was nervous about 0:08:21.356 --> 0:08:24.316 it because it seemed like it was flirting with sympathy, 0:08:25.196 --> 0:08:27.436 which I wouldn't want to be accused of. But I 0:08:27.436 --> 0:08:29.956 think I'm more thinking about just humanity. You know, if 0:08:29.996 --> 0:08:34.356 people feel heard, sometimes they can let their defenses drop 0:08:34.356 --> 0:08:36.636 a little bit. I've had the experience of a couple 0:08:36.716 --> 0:08:39.876 of times, at least maybe three, where on Facebook or 0:08:39.916 --> 0:08:43.516 something I'd said something vaguely political or overtly political, and 0:08:43.956 --> 0:08:49.236 somebody had commented in an aggressive way, you know, from 0:08:49.316 --> 0:08:52.316 say a maga point of view, for example, and other 0:08:52.396 --> 0:08:54.716 friends of mine would then you know, fight with them, 0:08:54.756 --> 0:08:58.596 and I found myself these two or three times, talking 0:08:58.596 --> 0:09:02.036 to them very calmly, and then taking it into private 0:09:02.036 --> 0:09:06.356 messaging and spending two hours just talking. And what I 0:09:06.396 --> 0:09:10.716 did find was that each time the person said at 0:09:10.716 --> 0:09:14.276 the end, you know, I was surprised. I was used 0:09:14.316 --> 0:09:17.276 to democrats yelling at me. I thought everybody would yell, 0:09:17.436 --> 0:09:20.156 you know, So there's this of course, there's a lot 0:09:20.196 --> 0:09:22.996 of civility lacking, but also the sort of illusion that 0:09:23.036 --> 0:09:25.756 it doesn't exist or something. Those are the ideas I 0:09:25.836 --> 0:09:29.636 was playing around with with it. And then Mark Pellington, 0:09:30.556 --> 0:09:33.876 who directed a video that's I think it's pretty great 0:09:34.076 --> 0:09:36.196 for it. He'd done a video for a song called 0:09:36.276 --> 0:09:38.116 just Wait on our Last record and he has to 0:09:38.156 --> 0:09:39.756 hear it, and I sent him the record and he 0:09:39.756 --> 0:09:42.236 really zeroed in on that song. And what he's really 0:09:42.316 --> 0:09:46.516 zeroed in on also was the sort of understory that 0:09:46.556 --> 0:09:48.876 I was also feeling at time that once I started 0:09:48.916 --> 0:09:51.356 seeing those lines, I'm like, that's about AI, or it 0:09:51.356 --> 0:09:54.036 feels like that's what it's about. Also, you know, when 0:09:54.116 --> 0:09:56.516 lyrics sort of matched two meanings, and he zeroed in 0:09:56.556 --> 0:09:58.236 on that and absolutely thought that's what it was about, 0:09:58.236 --> 0:10:01.036 which I thought was great because it just gave it 0:10:01.076 --> 0:10:05.436 another dimension. And there's a great podcast I like called 0:10:05.476 --> 0:10:08.356 Soda Jerker and Lloyd Cole was on it, and one 0:10:08.396 --> 0:10:10.596 of his sort of best practices for songwriting was that 0:10:10.636 --> 0:10:13.596 he said, don't be at all attached to the meaning 0:10:13.596 --> 0:10:18.396 that you intended. Be okay, be at peace with any interpretation, 0:10:18.476 --> 0:10:19.916 which I think is really good advice. 0:10:20.036 --> 0:10:22.516 You know, well, I'm interested that it started as a 0:10:22.556 --> 0:10:25.876 more overtly political song. Yeah, but I didn't take that. 0:10:25.916 --> 0:10:29.516 And when you said you didn't want to betray any sympathy, 0:10:29.956 --> 0:10:31.996 I found those lines incredibly sympathetic. 0:10:32.076 --> 0:10:32.556 Oh good. 0:10:33.036 --> 0:10:36.676 Not just about AI, but I think that I think 0:10:36.716 --> 0:10:39.036 there's a feeling in society that people are so much 0:10:39.076 --> 0:10:42.676 more connected, yeah, through media, and yet for that reason 0:10:42.716 --> 0:10:45.876 you feel, yeah, people feel more expendable. 0:10:46.356 --> 0:10:47.956 Yeah, I'm glad you heard it that way. 0:10:48.076 --> 0:10:51.476 And I guess I was speaking very specifically about sympathy 0:10:51.556 --> 0:10:54.716 for white supremacists. That was the thing I was uncomfortable with, 0:10:55.676 --> 0:11:00.036 but sympathy for people absolutely. And I also find that's 0:11:00.796 --> 0:11:04.956 an experience that I have sometimes when there's a certain meaning, 0:11:05.676 --> 0:11:08.916 sitting alone in my room and singing something and then 0:11:09.956 --> 0:11:12.796 to an audience, what is the communal feeling? And I 0:11:12.796 --> 0:11:15.116 think the sympathy for each other that we need so 0:11:15.196 --> 0:11:18.476 much of in any way to express it feels good 0:11:19.036 --> 0:11:19.676 or valuable. 0:11:19.756 --> 0:11:22.596 Well, it's a terrific song on a really great album. 0:11:22.716 --> 0:11:23.316 Thank you so much. 0:11:23.356 --> 0:11:26.076 That I guess Rolling Stone just said is your best 0:11:26.396 --> 0:11:29.556 in maybe the best of your career, which is you've 0:11:29.556 --> 0:11:31.796 had a long that's almost thirty years. That's pretty good. 0:11:31.796 --> 0:11:33.476 I haven't seen that review yet. I just got a 0:11:33.516 --> 0:11:36.836 text about it. Okay, Well, I'm very pleased to hear 0:11:36.876 --> 0:11:37.596 that's what it says. 0:11:37.956 --> 0:11:41.636 Your last record was Never Not Together, which on the 0:11:41.676 --> 0:11:47.276 surface felt a little more experimental choral intro and a 0:11:47.276 --> 0:11:50.796 spoken intro in another song. This one feels kind of 0:11:50.836 --> 0:11:55.756 more direct and new propeller aside, a little more joyful. 0:11:56.076 --> 0:12:01.796 And it's got that great sound that you have perfected. 0:12:02.516 --> 0:12:05.436 Oh thank you tell me because it is such. 0:12:05.316 --> 0:12:07.436 A distinctive sound. How do you get that? How do 0:12:07.436 --> 0:12:10.796 you take that song? You go into the studio and 0:12:10.836 --> 0:12:13.036 I'll even ask for the boring details of how you 0:12:13.076 --> 0:12:15.956 set it up and how you how you're recording. How 0:12:15.956 --> 0:12:19.756 do you get that that great not a surf sound? 0:12:20.236 --> 0:12:22.476 Part of I guess part of any band's sound is 0:12:22.516 --> 0:12:25.956 like what the rhythm section feels like and Iron Daniel, 0:12:26.516 --> 0:12:29.636 where the forever members of the band have a certain 0:12:29.716 --> 0:12:32.436 vibe together. So that's part of it. I think it's 0:12:32.476 --> 0:12:36.196 Guitar layering is a thing. I borrowed a four track 0:12:36.236 --> 0:12:40.676 from somebody when I was fifteen and sat down with 0:12:40.676 --> 0:12:44.076 my WHO songbook and recorded a couple of songs, two 0:12:44.116 --> 0:12:46.996 guitars doing the exact same thing and two vocals doing 0:12:47.076 --> 0:12:52.156 the exact same thing. And I became immediately hooked on 0:12:52.436 --> 0:12:55.476 double tracking, which has led to triple tracking, etc. 0:12:55.836 --> 0:12:57.796 Just take it a bit further, and. 0:12:57.796 --> 0:13:00.076 I guess I really like the sound of a few 0:13:00.156 --> 0:13:03.916 guitars doing the exact same thing, so it becomes a 0:13:03.956 --> 0:13:07.516 sort of super nature, you know. And certainly when you 0:13:07.716 --> 0:13:12.836 double track yourself doing something impossible, And that's why siblings 0:13:12.876 --> 0:13:16.676 sounds so special. I think when siblings sing together, there's 0:13:16.716 --> 0:13:19.116 the fact that the grain matches so well. 0:13:19.716 --> 0:13:21.916 The brother sounds yes, yeah, yeah. 0:13:21.796 --> 0:13:23.916 And so when one person does it, it kind of 0:13:23.956 --> 0:13:24.956 sounds fictional. 0:13:25.436 --> 0:13:27.396 You know, you're you're doing something that doesn't. 0:13:27.116 --> 0:13:29.636 Exist, but maybe it sounds Maybe that's the supermagic of 0:13:29.676 --> 0:13:32.596 the elderly brothers. They sound impossible too, and it's impossibly 0:13:32.836 --> 0:13:37.956 beautiful in their case, so that and just trying to 0:13:38.556 --> 0:13:41.436 fill it up a little bit. I'm always chasing the 0:13:41.556 --> 0:13:49.436 high of the first time I had shivers hearing a song, 0:13:49.516 --> 0:13:51.516 and I remember it was She's So Cold by the 0:13:51.596 --> 0:13:55.116 rolling Stones on a little battery powered FM radio under 0:13:55.116 --> 0:13:57.956 my pillow while sleeping in a tent in the summer. 0:13:57.996 --> 0:13:59.516 We were working in our house and there was no 0:13:59.716 --> 0:14:02.796 room for us kids in the house, and I remember 0:14:02.836 --> 0:14:06.756 that shiver, And you know, I'm just trying to get excited, 0:14:06.836 --> 0:14:10.156 or chase excitement, or chase pleasures. It's like pleasure seeking 0:14:10.196 --> 0:14:12.556 in a way. You know, what sound is going to 0:14:13.076 --> 0:14:15.516 feel really blissful to me, you know, And I would 0:14:15.596 --> 0:14:16.756 never claim it's it. 0:14:16.716 --> 0:14:20.236 Is blissful in an objective way. I just mean to me. 0:14:20.956 --> 0:14:24.676 So, how many guitar tracks, for example, would New Propeller have, Oh. 0:14:25.476 --> 0:14:28.836 In the intro, maybe as few as two, just playing 0:14:30.036 --> 0:14:33.876 just playing this, but with a pick two electrics and 0:14:33.956 --> 0:14:36.876 probably two acoustics. So there you go, four playing the 0:14:36.916 --> 0:14:38.676 exact same thing, and then this. 0:14:40.436 --> 0:14:44.396 You know, that's probably three or four electrics. So it's 0:14:44.476 --> 0:14:47.956 not crazy. We don't change mixers every record. 0:14:48.036 --> 0:14:51.956 We've used some of the same John Anniello, who's a 0:14:51.996 --> 0:14:55.156 New Yorker who's now in North Carolina. John Goodmanson from 0:14:55.156 --> 0:14:58.116 Seattle mixed this record. He produced Lucky in its entirety. 0:14:58.596 --> 0:15:00.836 He did a couple of songs on the way It's 0:15:00.836 --> 0:15:02.276 a Gift. He did a few on if I had 0:15:02.276 --> 0:15:05.316 a high fi. When you hear something again and again, 0:15:05.396 --> 0:15:07.676 you almost become too sensitive to it. And when he 0:15:08.036 --> 0:15:11.516 sent the first mixes, I actually thought they were over crispy, 0:15:12.396 --> 0:15:12.996 too much, and. 0:15:12.916 --> 0:15:15.436 I'm saying, sorry, John, this is just all hyped, you know. 0:15:15.756 --> 0:15:18.436 And in fact they were totally perfect, and I think 0:15:18.476 --> 0:15:21.316 they're really beautiful and super well done. 0:15:21.796 --> 0:15:23.836 But sometimes you get a little too close to. 0:15:23.836 --> 0:15:26.636 It when you get a tape like that back, the 0:15:26.676 --> 0:15:29.436 mixed back, do you like you listen to it in 0:15:29.476 --> 0:15:31.156 one room, to go to other rooms, to go to 0:15:31.156 --> 0:15:31.556 your car. 0:15:32.116 --> 0:15:34.036 If I'm nervous about hearing it, I'll put it on 0:15:34.956 --> 0:15:36.316 I have a little home studio. I'll put it on 0:15:36.316 --> 0:15:38.076 my little home studio and hit play and go to 0:15:38.156 --> 0:15:40.676 the other room. You know, you know, like when you 0:15:40.716 --> 0:15:43.716 open an email you're afraid of Yes, you're kind of 0:15:44.036 --> 0:15:45.316 you're ready to shut the screen. 0:15:46.276 --> 0:15:48.676 Are you looking through you know, through a gap? In 0:15:48.716 --> 0:15:49.116 your fingers. 0:15:49.556 --> 0:15:52.316 We just had crowded house in here. Yeah, and I 0:15:52.396 --> 0:15:55.036 think Neil Finn said something of it. Sometimes the songs 0:15:55.076 --> 0:15:56.396 just sound better in the next room. 0:15:56.516 --> 0:15:57.556 Yeah, yeah, totally. 0:15:57.716 --> 0:15:59.556 And you're right, You're like it has that kind of 0:15:59.556 --> 0:16:00.876 magic quality. 0:16:01.076 --> 0:16:04.196 If I think that I'm tripping, I guess what I 0:16:04.236 --> 0:16:06.236 mean is if I think I'm being paranoid about something, 0:16:06.316 --> 0:16:09.916 or having circular thoughts or obsessing or something, very often 0:16:09.916 --> 0:16:12.996 I'll just like put in earbuds and take a long 0:16:13.036 --> 0:16:15.116 walk and listen to it a bunch of times until 0:16:15.276 --> 0:16:19.556 whatever weird feelings I was having disappear. And it's like 0:16:19.796 --> 0:16:23.756 walking to objectivity, Like I have to walk out the 0:16:24.356 --> 0:16:25.916 overthinking or the panic or something. 0:16:26.876 --> 0:16:29.036 There's an old Latin phrase It's solved by walking. 0:16:29.076 --> 0:16:30.076 I can't. 0:16:30.436 --> 0:16:32.636 Yeah, just you go for a walk. 0:16:32.916 --> 0:16:33.396 Wonderful. 0:16:34.516 --> 0:16:36.276 After quick break, we'll be back with more from Not 0:16:36.356 --> 0:16:40.716 a Serf's Matthew Cars. 0:16:42.036 --> 0:16:45.316 So let's go back to the beginning. Yeah, you grew 0:16:45.396 --> 0:16:48.356 up in New York, right, that's right, Okay, where'd you 0:16:48.396 --> 0:16:48.796 grow up? 0:16:48.836 --> 0:16:51.916 I grew up on eighty first in Lexington. My parents 0:16:51.956 --> 0:16:54.996 taught at Hunter College, so they wanted to get an 0:16:55.036 --> 0:16:59.356 apartment near there. My dad was a philosophy professor, and 0:16:59.556 --> 0:17:02.836 my mom was in French at first but then moved 0:17:02.876 --> 0:17:06.916 on to comparative literature and also English, and now at 0:17:07.156 --> 0:17:09.876 ninety one, has been an art has story and for 0:17:09.956 --> 0:17:10.756 quite a few years. 0:17:10.956 --> 0:17:12.636 So did you grow up in a was it a 0:17:12.716 --> 0:17:13.836 musical family. 0:17:14.196 --> 0:17:15.356 Only in fandom? 0:17:15.676 --> 0:17:18.116 My father had been kind of promising at piano, but 0:17:18.196 --> 0:17:21.276 he grew up in a fundamentalist Christian cult in England 0:17:21.396 --> 0:17:24.996 called the Exclusive Brethren or the Plymouth Brethren, and he 0:17:25.036 --> 0:17:28.276 wasn't allowed to play anything but hymns, and he felt 0:17:28.316 --> 0:17:30.676 constricted by that and sort of moved on. And my 0:17:30.716 --> 0:17:32.876 mom had played a little bit, but they they were 0:17:32.956 --> 0:17:37.436 fairly obsessive listeners to baroque music, and in fact, to 0:17:37.516 --> 0:17:39.876 one record in particular, which I was so glad that 0:17:39.956 --> 0:17:42.516 I came around to asking my dad about that. I 0:17:42.516 --> 0:17:44.076 would think I was in my thirties, and I said, 0:17:44.716 --> 0:17:46.276 I know it was mostly back in the house, but 0:17:46.316 --> 0:17:48.396 it's with anything in particular we listened to because his 0:17:48.756 --> 0:17:52.476 you know, it's overwhelming, there's so much work, and he said, yes, 0:17:52.556 --> 0:17:57.676 ten fifty two. So I went and found it's b BWM. 0:17:57.916 --> 0:17:59.476 There are three letters, and then there's a number, and 0:17:59.596 --> 0:18:03.876 that's that's the way Bach works are classified. And anyway, 0:18:03.916 --> 0:18:06.076 I knew every note it was. They must have played 0:18:06.076 --> 0:18:08.436 it so often because I felt like I could see 0:18:08.436 --> 0:18:11.116 the dust on the coffee table, you know. It was 0:18:11.116 --> 0:18:13.716 so brought me back to Saturday mornings Tuesday nights, like 0:18:14.076 --> 0:18:15.316 they must have played it all the time. 0:18:15.956 --> 0:18:18.716 And did any melodic lines or harmony crept their way 0:18:18.716 --> 0:18:19.396 into your. 0:18:20.756 --> 0:18:23.476 I wouldn't know how to say that. But Phil Peterson, 0:18:23.516 --> 0:18:26.196 who played strings on the one you want on this record, 0:18:26.236 --> 0:18:28.356 and who's played all the strings on the last three 0:18:28.396 --> 0:18:31.076 or four albums of ours, we were talking about that 0:18:31.156 --> 0:18:34.756 and he said he heard something baroque in some of 0:18:34.796 --> 0:18:36.676 my melodies, which I thought was a kind of a 0:18:36.876 --> 0:18:38.516 thrilling thing to hear, even though I don't even know 0:18:38.596 --> 0:18:40.596 how to interpret it. No, Like I don't even know 0:18:41.636 --> 0:18:43.596 you know in fact, what that means. But I guess 0:18:43.636 --> 0:18:44.356 I liked hearing that. 0:18:44.756 --> 0:18:45.436 It's a nice thought. 0:18:45.676 --> 0:18:49.076 And then was you mentioned hearing She's so cold by 0:18:49.116 --> 0:18:50.796 the stones? Yes, getting that chill? 0:18:50.996 --> 0:18:51.356 Yeah? 0:18:51.436 --> 0:18:53.476 Had you started playing music by that point? 0:18:53.636 --> 0:18:53.876 Yes. 0:18:54.036 --> 0:18:56.596 My mother's older sister, peg Garson passed away a few 0:18:56.676 --> 0:18:57.036 years ago. 0:18:57.156 --> 0:18:59.836 She had bought a guitar for my dad. 0:18:59.596 --> 0:19:02.756 In the sixties, and he wasn't interested, so she put 0:19:02.756 --> 0:19:05.076 it in the closet. And then when I was eleven, 0:19:05.556 --> 0:19:07.116 she pulled it out and asked me if i'd like 0:19:07.116 --> 0:19:09.996 to play it, and she showed me one chord E major, 0:19:10.196 --> 0:19:11.836 and I went into the other room and played that 0:19:11.916 --> 0:19:12.716 chord for an hour. 0:19:13.076 --> 0:19:14.476 I was so thrilled. 0:19:14.556 --> 0:19:17.316 And I hadn't yet discovered the ramones, which I would 0:19:17.316 --> 0:19:20.716 a bit later, but just just doing that over and over, 0:19:20.796 --> 0:19:22.396 and then I thought, what if I move it? 0:19:22.436 --> 0:19:24.636 I'll move it up. What if I go this way? Oh? 0:19:24.716 --> 0:19:27.876 What's that? That's interesting? What if I move it over here? Oh? 0:19:27.956 --> 0:19:32.036 So I moved this one shape? Yeah, yeah, and yeah. 0:19:32.036 --> 0:19:33.356 So I started picking up then, and then when I 0:19:33.436 --> 0:19:36.396 was sort of thirteen and fourteen, then I started playing 0:19:36.396 --> 0:19:37.116 it a lot more often. 0:19:37.596 --> 0:19:39.876 Was there a band that inspired that or the Yeah? 0:19:39.916 --> 0:19:44.836 Well, my formative musical moment was when my best friend, 0:19:45.516 --> 0:19:48.676 Philip Platel was his name. They lived near us, and 0:19:48.716 --> 0:19:50.796 I went to his house every day after school for 0:19:50.956 --> 0:19:53.636 years and years and years, and there was a real 0:19:53.716 --> 0:19:56.636 sweetness to our relationship, and you know, sometimes when it 0:19:56.636 --> 0:19:57.996 was time for me to go home, he'd walk me 0:19:58.036 --> 0:20:00.676 home the three blocks to my house, and then I'd 0:20:00.716 --> 0:20:02.396 say I'll walk you home, and then we turned around 0:20:02.396 --> 0:20:03.596 and walked to his house and he said I'll walk 0:20:03.596 --> 0:20:05.836 you home, and we'd do that a few times. He 0:20:05.876 --> 0:20:08.156 had an older brother who went to boarding school, so 0:20:08.196 --> 0:20:10.236 I didn't see very often, but I always thought he was 0:20:10.236 --> 0:20:12.756 really cool. He had these really interesting posters in his 0:20:12.836 --> 0:20:16.236 room and seemed like a lovely guy. And one day 0:20:16.236 --> 0:20:18.516 he was home from school and he when we were thirteen, 0:20:18.676 --> 0:20:19.956 and he said, you guys want to come into my 0:20:19.996 --> 0:20:20.676 room and listen. 0:20:20.516 --> 0:20:22.516 To some music. Yeah? 0:20:22.556 --> 0:20:24.716 Absolutely, So we went and sat on his bed and 0:20:24.756 --> 0:20:28.556 he played us with no comment, front to back, three 0:20:28.916 --> 0:20:34.156 entire albums, Ramon's Rocket to Russia, Velvet Underground, Loaded and 0:20:34.276 --> 0:20:37.636 Talking Heads Remained in Light those three and it was 0:20:38.276 --> 0:20:41.276 I sometimes get misty thinking about it. It was so overwhelming. 0:20:41.916 --> 0:20:46.196 I was so interested and thrilled and knocked out. And 0:20:46.396 --> 0:20:49.636 it was funny. I mean, the remote romone songs were funny, 0:20:50.276 --> 0:20:53.716 really just rhythmically exciting moments sounds I didn't understand, you. 0:20:53.716 --> 0:20:56.156 Know, like Remain in Light. I can't remember which were the. 0:20:56.076 --> 0:20:58.756 Tracks, but there are a couple where it's a series 0:20:58.796 --> 0:21:02.996 of like impossible, sounds like an emotional computer or something, 0:21:03.036 --> 0:21:06.036 you know. And then a kid at school, a new kid, 0:21:06.076 --> 0:21:08.356 gave me a cass head of Tommy, and I became 0:21:08.396 --> 0:21:12.476 a whot and bought all their old records, and Pete 0:21:12.476 --> 0:21:16.036 Townsend started to feel like a like another dad, or 0:21:16.076 --> 0:21:17.316 like an older brother or something. 0:21:17.516 --> 0:21:21.876 It's interesting that he's I think underestimated as not as 0:21:21.916 --> 0:21:24.356 a guitar player, but almost as an influence on people. 0:21:24.396 --> 0:21:28.956 He's so, yeah, he is unique, but that propulsive style, 0:21:30.276 --> 0:21:33.116 no one plays the way he does. Yes, but he doesn't. 0:21:33.156 --> 0:21:37.196 He's not in that pantheon of oh I love Clapton 0:21:37.276 --> 0:21:40.036 or I love this guy, right, but in terms of rhythm, 0:21:40.076 --> 0:21:41.636 he's completely his own. 0:21:41.516 --> 0:21:44.996 Beast absolutely and and sound and approach and and and 0:21:45.036 --> 0:21:46.236 tricks and adventure. 0:21:46.636 --> 0:21:48.636 Yeah, I mean, and it's super punk. 0:21:48.956 --> 0:21:51.716 I know that's a that word as a whole hours 0:21:51.756 --> 0:21:54.476 long discussion, because it's sometimes very slippery, you know the 0:21:54.516 --> 0:21:58.796 meaning of it. But just the wildly adventurous kind of 0:21:59.636 --> 0:22:04.556 reigned in organized chaos and doing stuff that you know, 0:22:04.636 --> 0:22:07.476 sounded like the speaker is blowing up kind of a 0:22:07.716 --> 0:22:11.556 pickup switching and and string scratching, and it's just so exciting. 0:22:11.716 --> 0:22:15.116 Did that music I'm thinking, particularly something like Remain in Light, 0:22:15.276 --> 0:22:17.076 it's fairly esoteric. 0:22:17.156 --> 0:22:18.116 Yeah, for sure. 0:22:18.156 --> 0:22:20.316 Did you feel like I can go do this? 0:22:20.356 --> 0:22:22.996 Absolutely not? And that was the great thing about the 0:22:23.116 --> 0:22:26.796 Ramones and the Who. I really I loved classic rock 0:22:26.956 --> 0:22:29.996 and love the songs, really loved Zeppelin and Hendrix too, 0:22:30.036 --> 0:22:33.996 and that to me was not particularly encouraging music because 0:22:35.076 --> 0:22:36.156 it was so many steps away. 0:22:36.196 --> 0:22:38.156 I couldn't see it. I always felt that. 0:22:38.116 --> 0:22:39.876 Way with them as I grew up on that kind 0:22:39.916 --> 0:22:42.396 of music and just thinking like, be like if somebody 0:22:42.396 --> 0:22:45.796 gave me like eat Sock Pearlman and said here's a violin, 0:22:45.836 --> 0:22:47.396 and I'd be like, well, I don't know where to start. 0:22:47.636 --> 0:22:50.196 Yeah, yeah, where whereas a lot of like Who in Ramones, 0:22:50.196 --> 0:22:52.876 it is sort of like, if you can drum this 0:22:53.036 --> 0:22:55.236 beat out with your hand on a desk, you can 0:22:55.396 --> 0:22:57.036 probably actually do it because all you have to do 0:22:57.076 --> 0:22:58.676 is put your fingers in a certain position to get 0:22:58.716 --> 0:23:01.076 a chord and get used to holding a pick and 0:23:01.116 --> 0:23:03.396 do that same rhythm you were beating out on the desk, 0:23:03.476 --> 0:23:04.996 do it on the guitar and you're kind of there, 0:23:05.676 --> 0:23:08.116 you know, not to overly simple, I mean obviously they're 0:23:08.116 --> 0:23:10.556 incredible players, unbelievable, but yeah. 0:23:10.436 --> 0:23:14.876 Much much more, much more doable, reachable. Yeah. 0:23:14.916 --> 0:23:16.396 Well, there's something else I want to ask you about, 0:23:16.436 --> 0:23:19.276 because you made a short little filmed about it, which 0:23:19.316 --> 0:23:21.356 is you had a tremor when you were a kid. 0:23:21.556 --> 0:23:23.876 Yeah, yeah, and do you still I do. 0:23:24.036 --> 0:23:27.276 It's I'm really lucky in that it's going the opposite 0:23:27.316 --> 0:23:29.836 direction of most people I know have it. It tends 0:23:29.836 --> 0:23:31.516 to get worse. Mine is getting a little better. But 0:23:31.596 --> 0:23:34.316 I just had very shaky hands as a child. There's 0:23:34.356 --> 0:23:36.716 you know, teased a fair amount for that, you know, while. 0:23:36.516 --> 0:23:39.916 You're so nervous, because did it made you appear nervous? 0:23:40.076 --> 0:23:40.836 Yeah? 0:23:41.116 --> 0:23:43.556 You know, if I would meet like my girlfriend's parents 0:23:43.596 --> 0:23:45.916 and they asked me to pour them a glass of 0:23:45.916 --> 0:23:48.476 water or something, you know, thinking that something was going 0:23:48.516 --> 0:23:50.196 to go wrong I was going to start shaking, would 0:23:50.196 --> 0:23:52.996