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Speaker 1: Hi, Catherine, Oh hi Chelsea, yea, Hi. Guess where it's

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Speaker 1: snowed twenty inches last night? Oh my gosh, does have

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Speaker 1: been Whistler Orca? Oh no, no, are you serious? Twenty

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Speaker 1: foot waves? They have what are they called manholes? Or

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Speaker 1: what are those called when they're in the streets cave in?

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Speaker 1: Is that called a manhole? I mean the island is

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Speaker 1: not prepared for snow. Maybe in the mountains. Its twenty

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Speaker 1: inches of snow, and so every day told everyone to

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Speaker 1: stay in, don't go outside. It was on the Daily Mail.

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Speaker 1: It popped up on my Instagram this morning. And not

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Speaker 1: that I read the Daily Mail because I don't. But

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Speaker 1: we don't want us brother that, no, we don't. But

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Speaker 1: my Orca, I think, just comes to me. You know,

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Speaker 1: since our phones are all eavesdropping on me, can you

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Speaker 1: believe that it is snowing. I'm in Whistler right now

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Speaker 1: and it is snowing. Well, it's snowed last week in

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles, in my backyard. So that's the world is

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Speaker 1: over everyone. So we're just going to end this podcast

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Speaker 1: right now because everyone should just take shelter. Good Bye.

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Speaker 1: Hope you have enough owning Barrico to get you through.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's insane, I know, and I've heard

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Speaker 1: LA is just the worst right now. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: it's been like pouring rain. My puppies have been like

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Speaker 1: trying to potty train them. They're like, there's nowhere to go.

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Speaker 1: It's flooded. So it's been interesting. I saw some kids

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Speaker 1: surfing down the street in a Tuckerware bucket the other day.

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Speaker 1: There was like the rivers going down the street and

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Speaker 1: the gutters, and then there was a kid pulling another

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Speaker 1: kid on a mini bike and the other kid was

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Speaker 1: in like a Tuckerware tub and they were just zooming

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Speaker 1: down the street. So that's that's the state of affairs

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Speaker 1: right now. Listen. If you can't have a little fun

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Speaker 1: and a Tuckerware tub, where can you find it. We

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Speaker 1: went night skiing the other night after my birthday. We

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Speaker 1: all decided it was snowing, snowing. It snowed like twenty

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Speaker 1: centimeters whatever that means in America, and we were like

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Speaker 1: all together, we went to apray and then everyone's like,

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Speaker 1: let's go up to the top of the parking lots

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Speaker 1: and have someone drop us off and then we could

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Speaker 1: just ski down at night because it was all fresh

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Speaker 1: and so like. Ten of us did it. It It was

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Speaker 1: so much fun. Oh my god, it's nothing better than

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Speaker 1: being in the snow at night. I don't know why.

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Speaker 1: It's so beautiful the best. It is so beautiful. And

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Speaker 1: I also had a great birthday this year. Again. I

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Speaker 1: love celebrating my birthday and Whistler. It's got all my ingredients, skiing,

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Speaker 1: capre skiing, Margarita's skiing, other Margarita's. Oh when I had

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Speaker 1: my niece Charlie up here, who is a dream boat,

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Speaker 1: such guy. She's ridiculous. She is just so cute and funny,

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Speaker 1: and we skied. We should. We had her charging by

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Speaker 1: the end of the week, and well she was here

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Speaker 1: for like four days a solo. And then my friend Nick,

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Speaker 1: who is my director on Chelsea Does, she was my DP.

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Speaker 1: She came up and it was just so fun. I

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Speaker 1: love I love having one on one time with my

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Speaker 1: nieces and nephews. It's the best. I got shot down

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Speaker 1: by a niece this week. Rejection from children is fierce.

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Speaker 1: I know teenagers are trouble. Another reason not to have them,

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Speaker 1: you know exactly exactly. It's like, if they're tiny, they're pooping,

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Speaker 1: if they're three, they're mean to you, right, terrible twos,

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Speaker 1: terrible threes, and then they turn into teenagers immediately after that,

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Speaker 1: but no one tells you. They starts smelling at like

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Speaker 1: eight smelling. Yeah, they start smelling bad at like eight.

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Speaker 1: Well the boys, oh really, girls start smelling really I

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Speaker 1: think girls start getting stuck. Oh oh, like tricky situation.

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Speaker 1: I speaking of smelly. I went three days without taking

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Speaker 1: a shower and skiing while I was up here because

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Speaker 1: we had such a full house and it was NonStop action.

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Speaker 1: And finally, like yesterday or the day before, everyone left

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Speaker 1: and we went skiing again. I was like okay, And

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Speaker 1: then I was like, okay, guys, I'm going home after

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Speaker 1: skiing today, like no Appray, Like I'm wrecked for my birthday.

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Speaker 1: I'm so tired. My body's aching. We had a huge

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Speaker 1: powder day, so my thighs were burning. Yeah, and then

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Speaker 1: of course, you know, they persuaded me to go to Appray.

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Speaker 1: Twist my cut to one in the morning, I'm getting

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Speaker 1: opped off at my house and we had adopted a

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Speaker 1: giant baby, my friend Kelly and I her friend. We've

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Speaker 1: decided he was our baby and he had to come

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Speaker 1: sleep in one of our extra guest rooms, and I

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Speaker 1: was like, wait, what happened. It's like the whole day

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Speaker 1: got away from me. That's how it goes. I know's

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Speaker 1: how one drink so yesterday. So I'm hibernating this week

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Speaker 1: until my next batch of visitors come, which is Friday.

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Speaker 1: And then we got you out of bed at seven

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Speaker 1: in the morning. That's okay. I you know, I get

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Speaker 1: up early anyway. I'm always up. Okay. So our guest

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Speaker 1: today has a book out that you may have read.

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Speaker 1: It's called Going There. Her daily newsletter is called wake

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Speaker 1: Up Call. I get that every morning. It's a mix

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Speaker 1: of news, culture and advice. She's the EP which is

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Speaker 1: an executive producer of the new documentary No Ordinary Campaign,

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Speaker 1: which is debuting at south By Southwest, and she is

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Speaker 1: host of her podcast which is called Next Question. Please

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Speaker 1: Welcome Katie Kirk. I Katie, what are you doing on

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Speaker 1: the floor? Oh? Because we don't have a place to

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Speaker 1: do this, so I'm just going to sit on the

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Speaker 1: floor and honestly, it'll be fine, it will be comfortable.

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Speaker 1: What are you two girls up to that you have

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Speaker 1: that you're both sleeping in the same room and have

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Speaker 1: nowhere else to record she's not sleeping in here, she's

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Speaker 1: sleeping in the guest room. But we're in this big

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Speaker 1: kind of echoe house and we thought this would be

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Speaker 1: the best room. Is it? Is it? Okay? Yeah? Well

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Speaker 1: that horrors there. It looks so weird, Atrianna, but I

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Speaker 1: think it's a good look for you, Katie. It'll switch

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Speaker 1: things up. People will be surprised by the way. My

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Speaker 1: dad would say, it looks like I combed my hair

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Speaker 1: with an egg beater. Hi, Hi, Hi, This is Katherine,

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Speaker 1: my producer. I know Catherine. Hi, Catherine Hike. Oh, yes,

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Speaker 1: you guys know each other because she's gonna be working

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Speaker 1: with you now. She's gonna be helping us, which is

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Speaker 1: also she's so great in my yelling. Oh sorry, I'm yelling.

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Speaker 1: I'm yellow. Oh that's nice that you have someone who

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Speaker 1: will tell you that. Oh my god, Katie, where did

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Speaker 1: we start? Let's figure this out. How did we first meet?

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Speaker 1: Was it an interview? I think it might have been

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Speaker 1: an interview. I'm trying to remember when I took you

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Speaker 1: to the White House Scorres Fund It's oh yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was really that was our first date. It was and

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Speaker 1: I think I just reached out to you because I

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Speaker 1: thought you were fun and funny and that you would

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Speaker 1: get a kick out of going to the White House

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Speaker 1: Scorres fund It's dinner, which we did. We got a

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Speaker 1: big kick out of it. That was a fun night.

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Speaker 1: Remember we ended up in a car with two real randoms.

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Speaker 1: I don't even remember. I remember who Do you remember

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Speaker 1: who they were? I don't remember. The whole thing is

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a blur to me, but I

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Speaker 1: remember it was cute, Chelsea, because you were very nervous.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember that? No, no, no, no, tell me,

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Speaker 1: you were kind of I think you felt out of

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Speaker 1: your element and you had never been to something like

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Speaker 1: that and you were just a little a little jittery.

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Speaker 1: And it was really sweet. And who else came that year?

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Speaker 1: Was that the year Betty White came? And she was

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Speaker 1: also my guest? Oh yeah, yeah, we all sat at

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Speaker 1: the same table. Yeah, so I felt like I had

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Speaker 1: the coolest table in the room. That's a cool event, actually,

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Speaker 1: the White House Correspondence Center. It's really really like a fun,

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Speaker 1: fun night because it's not a lot of Republicans go,

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Speaker 1: if any, and so that's always a win. Well, that

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Speaker 1: was sort of back in the day. It was pretty bipartisan, honestly,

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Speaker 1: and I think when Trump became president, I think they

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Speaker 1: stopped having them. Then there was the pandemic, and so

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Speaker 1: it used to be a really kind of jocular bipartisan affair,

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Speaker 1: and it was really fun because the president hits up

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Speaker 1: and makes a really funny speech and it was a

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Speaker 1: lot of fun. And then I think we went to

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Speaker 1: the party. Did we go to the party at the

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Speaker 1: French embassy that Bloomberg usually hosted or yes, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: that's where we went. I remember us being in a

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Speaker 1: car with someone really really famous, like a famous director

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Speaker 1: or somebody I can't even remember. Yeah, I can't remember

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Speaker 1: for either who was that? And then I looked to

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Speaker 1: my left and it was another random and I've just

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Speaker 1: thought this is one of those nights. But we had

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Speaker 1: a couple of those nights because we had our Woody

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Speaker 1: Allen Knight, which we've both talked about, where we accidentally

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Speaker 1: had dinner with Woody Allen and SUNI and some other unmentionables.

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Speaker 1: Should we retell that story because or do you feel

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Speaker 1: like everybody's heard it? I know you put it in

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Speaker 1: your comedy routine. I think everybody has heard it, But

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Speaker 1: I mean there's no well you know what you tell it,

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Speaker 1: because I haven't heard you tell it. I've accepted the

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Speaker 1: book of course. Yeah. Yeah. So basically I was working

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Speaker 1: at CBS News. It was I believe was it January

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Speaker 1: or February or something like that. In the winter, Chelsea,

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Speaker 1: You and I had made plans to have dinner, which

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Speaker 1: I was really looking forward to. I got an email

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Speaker 1: from Peggy Siegel, who was this sort of big publicist

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Speaker 1: who's kind of fallen from grace now, and she said,

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Speaker 1: would you like to have dinner at the largest single

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Speaker 1: family home in Manhattan? And I was like, well that

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Speaker 1: sounds in preaking, you know, be interesting to see some big,

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Speaker 1: beautiful home where people usually live in pretty small apartments

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Speaker 1: in New York City. So I said, okay, great, and

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Speaker 1: she said it's going to be honoring Prince Andrew. George

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Speaker 1: Stephanopolis is going to be there, and she mentioned some

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Speaker 1: other newspeople and I thought, oh boy. Well, the royal

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Speaker 1: wedding was coming up that spring and William and Kate

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Speaker 1: were getting married, and I thought, you know, any end

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Speaker 1: to a member of the royal family is a good inn.

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Speaker 1: Well that turns out all that's what that's what she said.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, so I thought, gosh, I should probably go

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Speaker 1: to this, and I called you and I said, Chelsea,

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Speaker 1: I've just been invited to this dinner. Do you want

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Speaker 1: to go? It sounds like it might be interesting. It's

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Speaker 1: for Prince Andrew. I don't know if I even mentioned

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Speaker 1: that when I called you. I think I must have,

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Speaker 1: and I said do you want to go? And you

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Speaker 1: were like, sure, why not? So I was dating someone

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Speaker 1: at the time, so he came to it turns out,

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Speaker 1: and I googled him as I almost got there. I

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Speaker 1: think I met you there, but I remember googling Jeffrey

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Speaker 1: Epstein and thinking, oh, well, he was convicted of something

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Speaker 1: in Florida. It sounded sleazy, but it didn't sound horrible

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Speaker 1: and criminal and disgusting as now we know his behavior was.

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Speaker 1: So I thought, oh, this is pretty sketchy, but I

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Speaker 1: guess I'm in now. And so we walked in and

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Speaker 1: there was this whole assortment of people, including George Stephanopolis

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Speaker 1: I believe Charlie Rose was there, and yes, Woody Allen

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Speaker 1: and Sunny and it was probably about what would you say, Chelsea,

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Speaker 1: like twenty four people. Oh, I remember it being so

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Speaker 1: much smaller. But you know, my memory is not great

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Speaker 1: because I didn't even remember that you brought a date.

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Speaker 1: So really, yeah, it was it John, No, it was Brooks,

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Speaker 1: the good young guy I was dating. Okay, Okay, So no,

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Speaker 1: I thought it was a small party, like eight or

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Speaker 1: ten people. No, No, No, well, I think actually it's

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Speaker 1: probably somewhere between ten and twenty four. I think I

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Speaker 1: own remember the key players, is why I remember bring it.

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Speaker 1: I remember Charlie Rose walking out, just shitfaced, leaving his coat,

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Speaker 1: and then coming back an hour later, because you and

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Speaker 1: I were leaving, and apparently Brooks we were leaving, and

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Speaker 1: then he came back and he was kind of like

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Speaker 1: walking down the street, very disoriented, and he was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm looking for my coat. I'm looking. I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I had no idea. So many people were such a

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Speaker 1: hot mess, you know. I like Charlie Rose acts like

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Speaker 1: this at that time. He was a respectable newsman too,

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Speaker 1: So I remember that much from the night. But I

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Speaker 1: remember kind of sitting in I almost think like a

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Speaker 1: horseshoe shaped table situation, maybe in the living room. And

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Speaker 1: I titled that chapter of my book Lasagna Was Served,

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Speaker 1: because they served lasagna in these sort of shallow bulls.

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Speaker 1: And then before that he'd kind of given us a

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Speaker 1: tour of the house, and I remember he had those

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Speaker 1: stubbs and wooten velvet slippers on and torn jeans and

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Speaker 1: like a velvet maybe a velvet blazer, and he was

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Speaker 1: holding a drink. And I really didn't know very much

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Speaker 1: about him. I remember the artwork being were weird. But

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Speaker 1: after dinner, that's when you went up to Woody Allen.

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Speaker 1: I was at the end of dinner because I remember

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Speaker 1: the living are. We were all seated because I kept

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Speaker 1: from seeing all these people walk in. You know, when

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Speaker 1: I saw Woody Allen and SUNI walk in, I remember going, whoa, whoa, whoa,

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Speaker 1: what is this? And then I didn't obviously know Jeffrey

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Speaker 1: either Epstein. I knew Prince Andrew. I know who Peggy

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Speaker 1: Siegel is, yeah, and I don't remember him being there

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Speaker 1: at all. George, No, Charlie Rose is the other person

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Speaker 1: I remember, and then I feel like there was one other.

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Speaker 1: But I know when you just said that, I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh he was there. Yeah, Well that's great to know.

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Speaker 1: Good information. What a high ratio of predators, though, I

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Speaker 1: know when I look back I'm like, oh my god.

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Speaker 1: Almost every person in that room was canceled. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: felt like the den of an equity or something. But

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Speaker 1: after dinner, Chelsea, everyone was sort of sitting around, and

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Speaker 1: I remember seeing a friend of mine who's a doctor

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Speaker 1: who knew Jeffrey Epstein talking to him and a female doctor,

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Speaker 1: really beautiful woman. And then Chelsea walks up to Woody

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Speaker 1: Allen and Sunny and I don't think I heard you

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Speaker 1: say it. You just told me later and said, I

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm Chelsea Handler. And you started chit chatting

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Speaker 1: and you said, how did you two meet? Now you

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Speaker 1: knew how they met? Right, you were just well, of

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Speaker 1: course I was giving it to him. But it was

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Speaker 1: at dinner when we were getting dessert. We were seated

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Speaker 1: at the table because I was seated right across from them,

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Speaker 1: and I was next to you. You were on my right,

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Speaker 1: and they were across from me, And the whole time

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Speaker 1: at dinner, all I was waiting was to say something

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Speaker 1: to him, because as a woman, I was like, there's

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Speaker 1: no way that I'm not going to say something to

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Speaker 1: him to make him know that he's out completely out

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Speaker 1: of line. But you did hear me, because you said, Okay, Chelsea,

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Speaker 1: time to go. Katie mentioned that this happened. I was like, wait,

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Speaker 1: that was real. She really said that. It wasn't just

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Speaker 1: a bit. I just figured it was like a bit.

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Speaker 1: Oh No, that part I remember perfectly because because I

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Speaker 1: had to contain myself for so long throughout the dinner

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Speaker 1: to not embarrass everybody, you know what I mean as

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Speaker 1: a guest, I was like, how do I play this?

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Speaker 1: And I remember because I was talking to Woody Allen

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Speaker 1: during the dinner trying to be friendly, and we were

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Speaker 1: talking about stand up and movies and all of it.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, oh. And then I was like,

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Speaker 1: don't don't do this. Don't get sucked in and think

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Speaker 1: that you like somebody. You don't like this person, you

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Speaker 1: don't like them. I had to have this internal dialogue

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Speaker 1: with myself the whole time. Yeah, and I was definitely

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Speaker 1: tipsy because I'm me one weird. Thing I remember is

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Speaker 1: when we left, Brooks looked at me and said, did

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Speaker 1: you notice how young the girls were who were taking

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Speaker 1: our coats? Oh? God, so he noticed, well he did,

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Speaker 1: and he mentioned it to me. So now, in hindsight,

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Speaker 1: that's a very perceptive and really upsetting comment m. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and we've been through We've hung out a lot of

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Speaker 1: times because we had boyfriends that both had places, right,

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Speaker 1: we were both spending time in Shelter Island for a while.

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Speaker 1: You were about to get married, and I've met your daughters,

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Speaker 1: who you know are fabulous and so yeah, we've known

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Speaker 1: each other for many, many years. Yeah, and of course

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Speaker 1: I follow you from Afar and love watching you not

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Speaker 1: only with your Santa, but I'm obsessed with your Instagram.

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Speaker 1: So I enjoyed watching you skiing and your bikini recently.

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Speaker 1: You're a good skier, Chelsea. Oh thanks, I've been you

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Speaker 1: know what, Katie, I've been working so hard at becoming

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Speaker 1: a good skier. It was like my dream as a

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Speaker 1: little kid. I was like, I just want to be

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Speaker 1: a great skier. Well, you have very good form in

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Speaker 1: every way, but I you know, when did you start?

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Speaker 1: Because I started skiing at forty five. I'm sixty six

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Speaker 1: now and I can ski okay, like I can do

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Speaker 1: a semi easy blue, but I have never felt that freedom,

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Speaker 1: that total relaxation that good skiers feel. Yeah, it's just

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Speaker 1: time spent. Right. I bought a place in Whistler, and

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Speaker 1: I just spent months here at a time and just

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Speaker 1: skiing over and over with an instructor, you know, a

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Speaker 1: former racer who's giving me technique, so I'm not just

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Speaker 1: running around the mountain like a lunatic. And that's helped

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Speaker 1: a lot too. I think part of the problem, Chelsea

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Speaker 1: is I only ski once a year. Yeah, it's hard

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Speaker 1: to improve when you're ending. You don't put the effort in,

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Speaker 1: or you don't have the time. I have to tell

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Speaker 1: you my instructor is my father in law, Herb, and

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Speaker 1: Herb is ninety one and he, oh, don't tell anyone,

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Speaker 1: he's still a ski instructor in Aspen. Oh my god. Really,

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Speaker 1: how cute is that he is? Well, he is the

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Speaker 1: most amazing person. I mean, he is in incredible shape.

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Speaker 1: Not only does he carry his skis, he carries mine.

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Speaker 1: He is obviously an excellent ski or. He's been doing

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Speaker 1: this for like forty years. He was in business and

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Speaker 1: he cashed out, and his boys, one of whom is

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Speaker 1: my husband, thought oh he's going to do this for

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Speaker 1: a little while. No, forty five or fifty years later,

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Speaker 1: he's still doing it and he's just amazing, and he's

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Speaker 1: so much fun to be with. And he has helped

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Speaker 1: me become a mediocre skier. Yeah. Yeah, And I like

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Speaker 1: mountain culture, you know, like I like the idea of

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Speaker 1: going for a run, having a nice leisurely lunch, then

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Speaker 1: going for more skiing and then app right. Like I

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Speaker 1: just I'm home every night by seven thirty or eight

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Speaker 1: o'clock most exhausted. I exhausted, and then I get a

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Speaker 1: massage or I read at night. I mean, I'm just

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Speaker 1: so happy in my little winter cabin life that I've

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Speaker 1: created for myself. So are you there by yourself? Do

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Speaker 1: you bring friends or people come through? I bet your

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Speaker 1: sister comes right. Yeah, my niece was just here for

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Speaker 1: my birthday. My friends were here, they just all left.

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Speaker 1: So then I have a couple of down days and

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Speaker 1: then I have a new group coming in this weekend. Fun.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, people come through all the time. It's really fun.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's great. Where have you been spending your vacation time?

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Speaker 1: Do you guys go to the Hampton's mostly in that area.

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Speaker 1: Right now, we're in a rental property in Los Angeles.

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Speaker 1: So for the past five or six years, during the

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Speaker 1: dog days of winter in New York, we've usually come

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Speaker 1: out here for six weeks to two months, because now

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Speaker 1: when you can work remotely, and now that we have

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Speaker 1: our own company and everything, I don't have to be

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Speaker 1: in a studio. So that's been a really nice change

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Speaker 1: of pace. But it is the weather Chelsea here. I know.

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Speaker 1: I can't believe you just said you were in LA.

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Speaker 1: I would have thought I would thought you were going

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Speaker 1: to say you're in the Happens or something. It is

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Speaker 1: so bad in La right now. It's the worst time.

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Speaker 1: I have a very good piece of good news to

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Speaker 1: report because it's sunny right now, and I can't believe it. Atriana,

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Speaker 1: who works with me, who's here for a couple of days,

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Speaker 1: that she feels like she's taken a party drug. So

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Speaker 1: let's talk about John and talk about your marriage a

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Speaker 1: little bit, because you guys have a very great thing

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Speaker 1: going and he's a great support ballast for your life

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Speaker 1: as well as you to him. Well, we're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: about your cancer advocacy work also because you lost your

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Speaker 1: first husband to cancer, you lost your sister, and this

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Speaker 1: is a very important kind of lifelong project for you.

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Speaker 1: Just so I feel part of the whole mission. I

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Speaker 1: got cancer too, exactly, So tell us what the update

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Speaker 1: on that is the cancer. John, Well, let's talked about

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Speaker 1: the cancer first. Okay, all right, I kind of ruined

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Speaker 1: the flow, didn't I let's talk about your health first.

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Speaker 1: My health is good. And by the way, Katie, I've

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Speaker 1: let me just interrupted. I had no idea you were

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Speaker 1: sixty six years old. You are so cute, you have

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Speaker 1: never not and I know that you talked about in

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Speaker 1: your book how annoying it is to be cute. But

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Speaker 1: I have to say, like, you have one of those

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Speaker 1: faces that you will never look old. I don't know

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Speaker 1: about that, Chelsea. No, you don't. You just look you

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Speaker 1: always look young, like it doesn't matter what your age is.

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Speaker 1: I do have kind of a young vibe, kind of

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Speaker 1: a yeah yeah, lively young vibe. So thank you. You're

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Speaker 1: nice to say that. But in terms of my health,

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Speaker 1: I'm fine, Knockwood only because when I was diagnosed with this, Chelsea,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't that surprised because cancer has been such a

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Speaker 1: fixture in my life. But I felt so lucky because

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Speaker 1: both Jay and Emily were diagnosed with stage four cancer.

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Speaker 1: And it's all about when you're diagnosed. That's why I've

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Speaker 1: been on my sort of relentless advocacy about screening because

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Speaker 1: if you detect cancer early, that's when it's most treatable,

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Speaker 1: right when it hasn't metastasized what it hasn't spread through

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Speaker 1: your body and landed on another another organ. So I

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Speaker 1: didn't realize I hadn't gone for my annual mammogram, went

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Speaker 1: and got a mamogram, didn't expect anything weird. But my

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Speaker 1: breast radiologist, who's I think one of the best in

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Speaker 1: the world, Susan Drossman, said, you know how the technician

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Speaker 1: calls the doctor in and they're looking at the scan.

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Speaker 1: And I have always gotten an ultrasound because I have

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Speaker 1: very dense breasts, which can only be indicated on a mamogram,

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Speaker 1: and forty five percent of women forty and over have

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Speaker 1: what are considered dense breass. And dense breass mean that

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Speaker 1: the breast density the tissue shows up white in the mamograham,

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Speaker 1: So it makes it very hard for the radiologists to

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Speaker 1: identify a tumor or an abnormality. As Susan says, it's

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Speaker 1: like looking for a snowball against a backdrop of snow.

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Speaker 1: So I've always gotten pressed ultrasounds and we were videotaping

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Speaker 1: it to do a little tape piece on the importance

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Speaker 1: of getting screened. And Adriana, who's here with me now,

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Speaker 1: who's sort of we're like freakin frack. She Susan said,

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Speaker 1: you need to stop filming. You know. She was filming

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Speaker 1: on her iPhone and we were just going to put

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Speaker 1: together a little piece. And I said, no, it's okay,

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Speaker 1: she can keep filming. And she's like, no, tell her

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Speaker 1: to stop. And so she said, I'd see something very suspicious.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to do a biopsy this afternoon. Can you

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Speaker 1: stick around? Long story short, it was after getting a

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Speaker 1: lump back to me, a stage one a hormone receptor

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Speaker 1: positive breast tumor. So I got radiation for fifteen days,

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Speaker 1: a lump back to me prior to the radiation, and

423
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 1: then you take something called an aromatase inhibitor for five years,

424
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 1: which suppresses the estrogen. The biggest bummer about this, so

425
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 1: my cancer, as my surgeon said, is the good one.

426
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 1: It's not only treatable, it's curable. The only bummer about

427
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:31,240
Speaker 1: it is I desperately miss my estrogen. Well that's my

428
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,960
Speaker 1: next question. Yes, how does that affect someone of your age?

429
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,400
Speaker 1: Because we need HRT at a certain age. YEA right. Well,

430
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:40,639
Speaker 1: I had been on hormone replacement therapy, although my doctor

431
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 1: says she does not think that contributed to my breast cancer.

432
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 1: But I was on the patch for probably ten years.

433
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,919
Speaker 1: So I had to take the patch off immediately. And

434
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 1: now I take these pills that further suppress estrogen. And

435
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,359
Speaker 1: what can I say, it sucks. Estrogen is a wonder hormone.

436
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 1: It helps with brain fog, it helps with skin dryness,

437
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 1: dryness everywhere, if you know what I'm saying. And so

438
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 1: it's not fun, but it's a small price to pay

439
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 1: considering what other people go through. What have been the

440
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,679
Speaker 1: worst kind of or the biggest side effects that you've had.

441
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I have very dry skin, and

442
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 1: I had when I was a little girl, I had egzema,

443
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 1: like on my arms, and so I was starting to

444
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 1: get really dry skin even when I was on the patch.

445
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 1: So I think it's just made it worse. And so

446
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 1: that's really the most significant I know it sounds stupid,

447
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,920
Speaker 1: but it's bothersome. Does it help if you're just constantly

448
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,639
Speaker 1: glathering up your face like you know, sah done moisturizer.

449
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 1: It does, But I just don't do that. You know,

450
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,680
Speaker 1: I'm kind of lazy and land and you know, I'll

451
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,399
Speaker 1: do it after I get out of the shower, and

452
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 1: then I'll it's just not something I do. I should

453
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 1: do it every night before I go to bed and

454
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,639
Speaker 1: all that, but I'm usually too tired and too lazy.

455
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 1: But you know, I haven't noticed a problem with brain fog. Sometimes,

456
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,919
Speaker 1: I like a lot of people my age, and anyone

457
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 1: my age listening will know that I kind of have

458
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 1: to think of words or I don't quite have the

459
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 1: recall I used to have. I saw somebody at Craig's

460
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 1: the other night who's a very big guy in the

461
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:20,440
Speaker 1: TV industry, and I was like, oh, I can't remember

462
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 1: his name, and then I saw LaVar Burton, which was

463
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,679
Speaker 1: very exciting. But so I really haven't noticed much of

464
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 1: a change. And you know, it's hard because as you

465
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 1: get older, it's hard to parse out like what's causing what.

466
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,479
Speaker 1: And I'm stiff and my joints are kind of stiff.

467
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 1: I do a lot of pilates. But is that because

468
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,199
Speaker 1: of the estrogen then I'm not taking or is it

469
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,400
Speaker 1: just sort of a natural part of aging. So one

470
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: of the things I really wanted to come out of

471
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 1: my breast cancer diagnosis is I want women to a

472
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 1: find out if they have dense breasts, to be their

473
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,120
Speaker 1: own advocates, find out if they have dense breasts, and

474
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: then ask if they can do additional screening because a

475
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 1: lot of breast cancers are missed in women with dense

476
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 1: breast because mammograms aren't sufficient. So I went down to

477
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 1: Capitol Hill and did a press conference with a congresswoman

478
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 1: from Connecticut named Rosa do Loro. She introduced legislation John

479
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 1: makes fun of me, goes, who do you think you are?

480
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:22,919
Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi? But she introduced legislation that will require insurance

481
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 1: companies to cover breast ultrasounds in women with dense breasts,

482
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 1: because right now many of them don't, and of course

483
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 1: many women can't afford it. So I just want women

484
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 1: to really be smart about their testing and make sure

485
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 1: that they get all the screening they need. Thank you

486
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 1: for this public service announcement. I'm king no, thank you

487
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: for this public service announcement. Let's talk about your relationship

488
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 1: and meeting someone later in life in the way that

489
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 1: you did, and how that's impacted your family dynamic with

490
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 1: your girls, and with you and how this is different,

491
00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 1: you know obviously than your prior relationship. Every relationships different. Sorry,

492
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 1: some of the highs and like inspirational things that you

493
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 1: can share with us for people who are listening. Well,

494
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 1: it's been a joy and I've really I'm so happy

495
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: that I met John and that we found each other.

496
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 1: You know, he's just a good company. He's fun to

497
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 1: be with. Of course, occasionally get on each other's nerves.

498
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 1: He bugs me, I bug him, but he's really he's

499
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: just a solid person. He is a happy person. He

500
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:34,159
Speaker 1: loves adventure, although he's kind of boring with his restaurant choices.

501
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 1: We go kind of a square mile around our apartment.

502
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 1: I'm like, muhlnerd, can we like mix it up a

503
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,199
Speaker 1: little bit? But he's got a great family. They have

504
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,679
Speaker 1: been an additional gift. He's one of three boys. And

505
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: you know, I love his parents. Both my parents have

506
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 1: died and Jay's parents died a number of years ago.

507
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 1: So Herbie and Paula treat Ellie and Carry like their granddaughters.

508
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 1: I mean, they really think of them as their granddaughters.

509
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: You know. It was hard because Ellie, Carrie and I

510
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 1: were like the three Musketeers for so long. And when

511
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 1: we got engaged, they came out to the Hampton's and

512
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 1: I took them into a room and I showed them

513
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 1: my engagement ring and they both burst into tears, and

514
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 1: they weren't really happy tears. I think they were just

515
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: shocked and worried that this was going to change things.

516
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 1: But of course it hasn't. He's just enriched our lives.

517
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,400
Speaker 1: And he's got two wonderful kids as well. And we're

518
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 1: too old to be the Brady bunch. You know. My

519
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 1: kids are grown, his kids are grown, but they all

520
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: have a really nice relationship, and I just feel extraordinarily lucky.

521
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,239
Speaker 1: But I tell everyone, since I know this is an

522
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 1: advice show, is you know, you have to be intentional

523
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 1: if you want a partner, and I'm kind of a

524
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 1: partner person. You have to tell people. You have to

525
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: ask people. So when I asked my friend Molly heal

526
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 1: Fit at spinning class if her husband, who was the

527
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: chief of trauma surgery at the Hospital for Special Surgery,

528
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 1: I said, Molly, does Dave know any doctors? I'm so

529
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 1: did in medicine and science. I've learned so much about cancer.

530
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: I think i'd enjoy dating a doctor, and she said,

531
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 1: we don't have I don't think we know any doctors,

532
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: but we do know this banker named John Muhlner. And

533
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 1: I was like, does he have a pulse? Has he

534
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 1: been to has he ever been to a doctor? Because

535
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: that will all suci And so he finally called me,

536
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:25,919
Speaker 1: and he was funny. You know, right away he just

537
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: had an easiness and a fun personality and I just

538
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 1: liked him immediately felt comfortable. He was from Chicago. I

539
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: like midwesterners, Chelsea. They're just a little different in a

540
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: good way. They're just less pretentious. I know that's such

541
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: a generalization about millions of people, but anyway, so it's

542
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: all worked out and I'm really happy, and as I said,

543
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 1: I feel very, very very lucky. And also I think

544
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 1: what you said as a salient point is having your

545
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 1: girl's reaction thinking there's going to be some sort of subtraction,

546
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: and instead there's an enhancement. And addition, everything he's bringing

547
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: to the table is actually wonderful. His parents, you know,

548
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 1: his kids, all of those things, and those elements, his intelligence.

549
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: You know, he's the CEO of our company. He's got

550
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: he's a great businessman, you know, working with your partner

551
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: spouse is not always easy, and we're both pretty strong willed,

552
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 1: but his skills in building this company, Chelsea, we have

553
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 1: like forty plus employees. We're working with purpose driven brands.

554
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 1: I have a podcast, we have a newsletter. We have

555
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 1: a million subscribers newsletter, which is great, you guys. I

556
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: read it every single morning, Chelsea wake up Call. It's

557
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: called So if you haven't signed up for that, please do.

558
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: It's a great way to get your news in the morning.

559
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: And it's got a mix of everything, so it's not

560
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: like just you're just reading about politics. It's got like

561
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 1: pop culture and health and wellness and yes and human

562
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: interest stories, all of those things. So yeah, you go

563
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: to Katiekirk dot com to sign up shameless plug. But anyway,

564
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: that's that's John. Yeah, well, thank you for making sure

565
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: we spoke of about him. Okay, So we have a

566
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: couple of letters that people have written in and then

567
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: then I think we have one live call Captain tell

568
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 1: us what we're in store for Well, I mean it's

569
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 1: all on the themes that we've touched on today. It's

570
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 1: relationships and starting over, it's breast cancer. So Katie I

571
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 1: know you have talked about it all, so I thought

572
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: these questions would be perfect for you. Okay, great, great,

573
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 1: but we'll take a quick break and we'll be right

574
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 1: back with Katie and Chelsea. And we're back. We're back.

575
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: Well today, I thought we might start with our caller.

576
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 1: She's a teacher, so we got to get her back

577
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: to her students. But she says, dear Chelsea. I got

578
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 1: together with my husband ten years ago after two years

579
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: of close friendship. In that time, my husband battled a

580
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: heroin addiction. For the first five years of our relationship,

581
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 1: he was in and out of rehab and recovery. Although

582
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: it wasn't easy, I do think him being in recovery

583
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 1: made me a better person. I learned to focus on myself.

584
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: I learned how to set better boundaries in all my relationships,

585
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: and through it all, our relationships still remained a very

586
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 1: good one. We've always communicated well, loved each other sincerely,

587
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 1: and had a relationship based on true friendship. In July

588
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, we decided to finally get married. Our

589
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: wedding day was the happiest day of my life, and

590
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,719
Speaker 1: since our wedding day, we've been having a true honeymoon period.

591
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: The amount of love we have for each other is

592
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: honestly overwhelming. Things were finally looking up after years with

593
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: dealing with the drama of relapse and recovery. He had

594
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: found stability in sobriety, a good job, and Hay had goals.

595
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: We bought a house together last September, and things were

596
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 1: going better than I had ever imagined. Then in December,

597
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: I found out he was sleeping with this coworker. This

598
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 1: is something I never saw coming and could not have

599
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: prepared myself for. We went from mentioning daily how grateful

600
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 1: we were for each other to him moving out and

601
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: pursuing a relationship with another much younger by the way woman.

602
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 1: To say and devastated is an understatement. This feels to

603
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 1: me a lot like a relapse. It happened suddenly after

604
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: he stopped taking care of himself, going to meetings, and

605
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: communicating with his sponsor and friends in recovery. I married

606
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 1: him fully knowing that there was a possibility he could relapse,

607
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 1: but I never knew how this could happen. Since he

608
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 1: moved out just before Christmas, he has moved into an apartment,

609
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: continued dating as coworker, and basically ignored my existence. He's

610
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: given me no indication that he's interested in working on

611
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: himself or our relationship. But I'm having such a hard

612
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: time letting him go. Do I wait for him to

613
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: figure his shit out? Do I move on? How do

614
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: I let go? Elizabeth? God, that is so sad, so brutal.

615
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 1: Hi Elizabeth, you're here, Oh, Hi, Elizabeth. I'm so sorry, Elizabeth,

616
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 1: this happened. And I can imagine how devastating this is.

617
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: And it sounds like you were so important to his

618
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 1: journey and then to have this happened is awful. By

619
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: the way, you look so young. How could this woman

620
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 1: be much younger? What is she eleven? And how old

621
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 1: are you? I want to echo what Katie said, I'm

622
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: so sorry. I'm so sorry. Heartbreak is the way it

623
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: feels like it's the worst thing and that it is

624
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: the most unrecoverable thing. But it is not, and you

625
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: will recover. And I said this the other day to

626
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 1: my friend and because we were talking, and I know,

627
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: it's like, sometimes when we can't get ourselves out of

628
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 1: situations by ourselves, the universe has a way of getting

629
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: us out of those situations. And even though it doesn't

630
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: feel like he's doing you a favor, and he has

631
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: several issues with drugs, with the cheating, with all of

632
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: these things. This is a way for you to have

633
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: him out of your life and really reassess, I think

634
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: what drew you to him in the first place, what

635
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: allowed you to trust him in the first place and

636
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 1: have so much faith in him, and kind of recalibrate

637
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: what you're willing to accept in the future moving forward,

638
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: or whether it's him coming back in six months, which

639
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 1: is a possibility, and you have to decide what you're

640
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: going to do with that if and when that happens,

641
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: and if it doesn't happen, what are you going to

642
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 1: do to prepare yourself to be in a real, loving

643
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 1: relationship that is reciprocal where you don't have to worry

644
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 1: about somebody going off the rails because it was intense, intense, intense, intense,

645
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: and then disappear like that's not what any responsible human does.

646
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: You sit down and you have a conversation saying, I'm

647
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 1: having these feelings for another person or I've acted on

648
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 1: these feelings and I'm confused. You don't just take off

649
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 1: and ignore this person that's been by your side I agree.

650
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 1: I mean, it sounds so cruel that he You know,

651
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: people do fall in love with other people, it happens.

652
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 1: But the fact that he has been so cruel and

653
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 1: callous and completely cut you out of his life. But

654
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 1: one thing I wanted to say that Chelsea mentioned is

655
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: it's so interesting who we're drawn to. You know, were

656
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 1: you drawn to him because you wanted to save him,

657
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: that you wanted to fix him, that you wanted to

658
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 1: help him. Is there something in your past, in your

659
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:06,720
Speaker 1: relationships with your family or with your parents, that maybe

660
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,879
Speaker 1: make you gravitate to people like this who are sort

661
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,399
Speaker 1: of dangerous and living on the edge. And even if

662
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: he was getting better, I thought it was interesting too

663
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: that you described this as a relapse, like maybe one

664
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: addiction replacing another, the high of almost an illicit romance

665
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 1: replacing the high of drugs. And I don't know much

666
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 1: about that, but I thought that was an interesting use

667
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 1: of words, did you, Chelsea? Yeah, absolutely, it does sound

668
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: like a transference, right, like you go from one thing

669
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 1: to the other. Do you know if he's had a relapse.

670
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 1: I don't think he's used drugs or alcohol. A lot

671
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 1: of the like warning signs of a relapse. We're coming up.

672
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 1: Before I found out, which is how I found out,

673
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: I started getting a little bit suspicious. I thought that

674
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,080
Speaker 1: he relapsed on drugs, and then I found out that

675
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: it was an affair. And like I've spoken to his sponsor.

676
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: His sponsor agrees it's very much like relapsed behavior. But

677
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 1: he's in such denial, like he does not want to

678
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 1: hear it, and he gets super defensive anytime anybody accuses

679
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: him of needing mental health help right now? And when

680
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 1: was the last time you spoke with him? Well, I

681
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: spoke with him on Sunday because he wants to talk

682
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: about Dad. But he did tell me on Sunday that

683
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: he's no longer with that girl, but that he still

684
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 1: doesn't want to be married to me anymore. And you

685
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 1: have this house together, yeah, And so what's the plan there?

686
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: Have you gotten that far yet? I know I'm not moving.

687
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 1: I'm not selling the house. I put a significant portion

688
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 1: of my savings into the house, like the down deposit,

689
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:57,959
Speaker 1: and it wouldn't make any sense for me to move

690
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: because rent anywhere I have to dogs, and rent anywhere

691
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 1: with two dogs would be more expensive than what my

692
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: mortgage is. But he's under the impression that we'll just

693
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 1: sign papers and he'll get off scot free and just

694
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 1: live a life that has no repercussions for his actions.

695
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like his behavior alone is going

696
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 1: to help you get through this quicker, as painful as

697
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: it feels. He's like disassociating himself from your prior relationship.

698
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: And I do think you are dodging a major bullet

699
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: of like more pain and more grief. I don't think

700
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,399
Speaker 1: that you should be holding onto the idea that maybe

701
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,359
Speaker 1: you guys can reconcile, because hey, he needs a ton

702
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: of therapy and you don't have time for that. Like

703
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,400
Speaker 1: I would rather see you take this time to really

704
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 1: get centered and grounded and read all the books that

705
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 1: you can read about what that means for you. There's

706
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:50,800
Speaker 1: a great book I mentioned all the time on this podcast,

707
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 1: Letting Go, by David Hawkings, which is very deep and

708
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,720
Speaker 1: very meta, but it is about letting the world stop

709
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 1: resisting your reality. You know, whatever ever is happening, Just

710
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 1: deal with what's happening and the situation without trying to push,

711
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 1: move or change it, aligning yourself and it makes recovery

712
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: at heartbreak so much easier because there are doors that

713
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 1: are going to open because of this closure that you

714
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 1: haven't seen yet, and life is going to take a

715
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: different shape for you, and you have to be inspired

716
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,280
Speaker 1: by that and move towards that. If you can understand

717
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 1: what I'm saying there, Yeah, that's what I'm having a

718
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:30,760
Speaker 1: hard time with is just letting go, honestly, especially because

719
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 1: it's a relapse, because I married him knowing that he

720
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 1: could relapse, but I did not know that an affair

721
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 1: could be a relapse. I thought it would be drugs

722
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 1: or alcohol in some ways, Are you excusing his behavior

723
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: and saying, well, this is the personality of an addict. Yeah,

724
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,280
Speaker 1: And like I married him knowing he was an addict,

725
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 1: and so what is my responsibility? But then again, like

726
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 1: I meant my vowels when I said them, and he's

727
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: broken them, and I don't know even if he came back,

728
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: where we would land. And you deserve so much better, right,

729
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 1: you know, there's I think a lot of women hold

730
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 1: on thinking they're going to fix somebody, and that's almost

731
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 1: part of the attraction. And I think if he doesn't

732
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,400
Speaker 1: let you not to go all over on you be

733
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 1: your best self and let you pursue your dreams and

734
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: be a full and whole person. And if it's all

735
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 1: about him and his addiction and his you know, wanting

736
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 1: to stay clean and you're so focused on that, what's

737
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: left over for you? Yeah, I agreed, not much and

738
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: just the treatment, you know what I mean. This isn't

739
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: how you treat someone you've spent all this time with,

740
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 1: who's been there for you all this time, and that

741
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 1: alone is just like you're that's not acceptable to you.

742
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: You deserve so much better and you deserve to be

743
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: standing on higher ground. And by continuing to have this

744
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 1: conversation with yourself about what you want moving forward. I

745
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 1: understand it's hard to get over someone, but time will heal.

746
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 1: You will get over him. You will get over him

747
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 1: before you think you will. It always happens, you know.

748
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 1: We don't stay in love with the same people for

749
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 1: twenty or forty years. And sometimes even if people do,

750
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 1: there's people along the way that come in and you know,

751
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: shake things up. And I think this is a time

752
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 1: for you to dive inward and really do the work

753
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: on yourself so that you're never in a position where

754
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 1: you are vulnerable to a person or an addict like this. Again,

755
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, yeah, And I think Katie is right that,

756
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: you know, he's chasing chaos, whether it's the heroine or

757
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 1: another person, or busting up his marriage in this way,

758
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: whatever it is. And so are you in therapy right now?

759
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 1: I am okay good. I mean, you know, we talked

760
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 1: about this a couple of weeks ago. But when you

761
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 1: are ready for a new relationship, because it's probably not

762
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: going to be right away, but when you are going

763
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: after relationships that feel steadier and feel really not these

764
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 1: like extreme highs and lows. The nice thing about that too,

765
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 1: is like there's less for you to take care of.

766
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,359
Speaker 1: You know, you don't necessarily need somebody who can take

767
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 1: care of you in that way, but you need someone

768
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 1: who you can take care of each other. It's not

769
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 1: just one sided of like I gotta help him be

770
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,319
Speaker 1: in recovery. I gotta help him get out of this,

771
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: you know, I gotta help him figure out his life.

772
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 1: Now that he's laughed me. I wonder why so many

773
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:19,439
Speaker 1: women you all are attracted to chaos chaotic relationships sort

774
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 1: of the push pull the where do I stand? I

775
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 1: was watching before I went to bed. Sometimes I watch

776
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 1: old episodes of sex in the City and Carrie is

777
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 1: dating Aid in it right now. In this episode I

778
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:34,840
Speaker 1: was watching and she said, it's so nice, it's so easy,

779
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 1: it's so calm, and she was so unhappy about that.

780
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 1: And it's interesting when you look at your own self,

781
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:44,720
Speaker 1: like why do I what is it about my past

782
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 1: or about relationships or about my makeup that makes me

783
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: want to be in this chaos because ultimately it's just

784
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 1: so not fun. But I think when you see that,

785
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 1: you can move towards thing that's different than that, especially

786
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 1: with the help of a therapist. I think after five

787
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: years of sobriety, like we were getting to that point,

788
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 1: and that's one of the things he said, Like I

789
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:11,799
Speaker 1: was just waking up, going to the gym, going to work,

790
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 1: coming home, sitting on the couch watching TV, and I

791
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 1: was like, that's life, Like that's where I wanted to be.

792
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: I want a boring life with somebody. I want somebody

793
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 1: that I can just sit on the couch next to

794
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 1: and not necessarily even have to have a conversation. So

795
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: for me, like we were finally at the point where

796
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 1: I was like, great, we own a house. This is

797
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: our nice, little like boring life together. And it was

798
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 1: comfortable and this really just like smacked me in the

799
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:42,800
Speaker 1: face out of nowhere. I feel like I'm still reeling

800
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 1: from the shock. It's interesting what some people consider contentment

801
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 1: other people consider boredom. Right, I would be with you

802
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 1: because those are the things I'm interested in as well.

803
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 1: Sitting on the couch watching TV at the end of

804
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 1: the day and not fucking talking to anybody. That is

805
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 1: also my idea of perfect relationship. You know, too much

806
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 1: talking drives me crazy. It's like I make a living talking,

807
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 1: so I like quiet, you know as much as I

808
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 1: like talking. Do you relate to that, Katie, like everyone

809
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 1: just to stop? Yeah, I love quiet too. I feel

810
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 1: like you that it's contentment to be able to I

811
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,359
Speaker 1: used to be so sad when I saw people out

812
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 1: to dinner and not talking, and that still makes me

813
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: sad when I see couples. But there's something when you're

814
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,840
Speaker 1: comfortable enough to not have to talk all the time,

815
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:38,400
Speaker 1: when you just find comfort in each other's presence and

816
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 1: it doesn't feel forced or awkward. That to me is

817
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 1: my sweet spot. That's where I want to be in

818
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 1: a relationship, and that's what I found, and it is

819
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 1: possible to find it and you know, I think you

820
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 1: deserve a drama free relationship. That's what you want, and

821
00:43:56,160 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 1: that's what you should go out and find. And I

822
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,799
Speaker 1: was saying earlier to Chelsea and Catherine. You know, when

823
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 1: I look for a partner, I'm pretty intentional about it.

824
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm going to run into somebody at

825
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,760
Speaker 1: a bookstore, you know, perusing the new novels. I think

826
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,800
Speaker 1: that you have to network. You have to say to people,

827
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 1: I'm interested in meeting new people. And it may not

828
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 1: even be for love connections. It may be just for

829
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 1: expanding your social circle, learning something new from somebody who's

830
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 1: in a completely different profession or has an interesting hobby.

831
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 1: And you know, I always say only coffee or a

832
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:33,240
Speaker 1: glass of wine, because I don't want to be stuck

833
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,320
Speaker 1: having dinner with somebody who I just don't feel a

834
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,880
Speaker 1: connection with it all. But I also try to give them,

835
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 1: you know, I try to respect them and appreciate them

836
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 1: for who they are, even if they're not somebody I

837
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 1: want to be, you know. Dating there's also a book

838
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,840
Speaker 1: called It's called Breakup because It's Broken, which is a

839
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 1: good breakup book. Write that one down, and then the

840
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 1: Letting Go book because I think what you're really talking

841
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 1: about is letting go. Yeah, And I think that you

842
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: know this is an off oportunity. Don't ever forget every disaster,

843
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: every traumatic experience we have is an opportunity for growth.

844
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 1: So you're going to take this opportunity and you are

845
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 1: going to grow, you know what I mean? And you

846
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:14,879
Speaker 1: think you have to think about that every single day

847
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 1: and use the intention that Katie's referring to as a

848
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 1: daily practice for yourself. What am I intentions for today?

849
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 1: To learn more about myself, To be more honest with myself,

850
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 1: to be looking for the good in people and the

851
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 1: people that are giving the good back to you, and

852
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 1: really just you know, taking the time to get yourself

853
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 1: a little bit out of your comfort zone in the

854
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 1: things that you're reading and learning about yourself, even with

855
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,879
Speaker 1: your therapy. Really get down to it, and I think

856
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 1: that you're going to be in a much better spot

857
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,840
Speaker 1: sooner than later. And don't lose hope. Just remember that

858
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 1: you are a person of strength. We all have such

859
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:51,839
Speaker 1: a deep reservoir of strength within us. Sometimes we have

860
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 1: to really pull it out, and this is one of

861
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: those times where you have to stand on your two

862
00:45:55,719 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 1: feet and don't waiver. His behavior has been unacceptable and

863
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 1: there's no way back to him. Yeah, and think of

864
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 1: all you have to offer. I think when people get

865
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 1: treated this way, they look for deficits in themselves because

866
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:12,840
Speaker 1: it's sort of what's wrong with me? What did I

867
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 1: do wrong? Why wasn't I good enough? And it doesn't

868
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 1: have anything to do with that. It's not that you

869
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 1: have deficits. And I think at a time like this,

870
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:26,879
Speaker 1: you have to remember all the great things about you,

871
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:30,359
Speaker 1: And as Chelsea said, I think Chelsea would be an

872
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 1: excellent purpose by the way, but that you know, to

873
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 1: really think about all that you have to offer, not

874
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:40,719
Speaker 1: the things that you are suddenly feeling that you don't have.

875
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 1: When you break up and you start to obsess about

876
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:44,879
Speaker 1: the other person, what are they doing, what are they thinking,

877
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 1: what's their motive? What were they saying? What do they

878
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 1: mean when they did this? That is the thinking that

879
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 1: it's like, no, no, what do I think? What am

880
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: I doing? What do I think about him? What do

881
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 1: I think about myself? How did he make me feel? Yeah,

882
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 1: it's about you redirect any thoughts you have about about

883
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 1: him back to you, because that's who you need to

884
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 1: be paying attention to It doesn't matter what he thinks

885
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 1: or what he's doing. You're going to stand your ground

886
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 1: and you're going to develop as a human being because

887
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 1: of this experience. Yeah, you get to be a little

888
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 1: bit selfish now, and you should be. That's nice. So

889
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 1: stay busy. I know that, Like even when I lost

890
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,799
Speaker 1: my husband Jay, and even when I've had sort of

891
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 1: dramatic breakups or you know, after long relationships. I think

892
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:29,319
Speaker 1: you really have to lean on your female friends and

893
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 1: your male friends and really stay busy. Take a trip,

894
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 1: go for a hike, take a pottery class. I mean,

895
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,320
Speaker 1: just work on yourself. But I think those times where

896
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 1: you wake up at three in the morning and you're

897
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 1: ruminating and you can't go back to sleep, and I

898
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 1: think just staying busy for me was so important during

899
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: traumatic periods of my life. It's like I'm trying to

900
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 1: strike a balance between staying busy and like taking time

901
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 1: to feel my feelings, because I think sometimes staying busy

902
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 1: makes me avoid my reality a little bit. I feel

903
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 1: like I'm performing all the time for other people. Well,

904
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 1: maybe stay busy by yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, it's

905
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 1: good to reflect. I think that's really important. I didn't

906
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 1: learn that until I was much older. About sitting by

907
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 1: yourself and like allowing the pain to come through, allowing

908
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:20,760
Speaker 1: yourself to grieve, you know what I mean, not necessarily

909
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 1: relying on other people to make you feel better as

910
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 1: a distraction, but kind of working through the pain yourself,

911
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 1: allotting that time each day. Another good book for you

912
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:30,279
Speaker 1: to read is attached, because it can probably it will

913
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:32,280
Speaker 1: probably be very clear to you what kind of person

914
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 1: he is, which sounds avoidant, and it kind of gives

915
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 1: you the dynamics between people who are needy or what

916
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 1: people are expecting out of relationships, and the attraction that

917
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 1: why you're even in a relationship with someone like this.

918
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 1: You know, not that there's anything wrong with you, it's

919
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:49,359
Speaker 1: just our patterns of behavior and our patterns of giving love.

920
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 1: So yes, please just remember that you're a huge value.

921
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 1: Separating is not the end of your world. It's the

922
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 1: beginning of a different part of your life. Yep, I'm

923
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 1: gonna play this on repeat. Talk Thank you, I appreciate it.

924
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 1: I want to get these books too. They sound so interesting. Yeah,

925
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: they're all just you know, like it just depends what

926
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 1: kind of hits you. You know, I've read so many

927
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 1: like breakup or self help books. They kind of go

928
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:18,359
Speaker 1: hand in hand. And some of them are deeper, some

929
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:20,839
Speaker 1: of them are lighter. There's like The Untethered Soul, which

930
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 1: is kind of a light, freely read and that's okay,

931
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 1: but that's not the book for me. Like I like

932
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 1: deep thinking about like how life gets easier when you

933
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 1: accept everything and you just go, oh, that didn't work out, Okay,

934
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 1: what else is going to happen? Not belaboring you know,

935
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 1: oh what happened when you beat a dead horse like that?

936
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 1: You're stuck. So you're just gonna have to get yourself unstuck.

937
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 1: What you're gonna do, and then you're going to report

938
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 1: back to us. Okay, thank you so much. Okay, Okay,

939
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:55,839
Speaker 1: we love you, Thanks Elizabeth, good luck bye. I love

940
00:49:55,880 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 1: you so much. Thank you. We're gonna be okay. Well

941
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 1: she's so sweet too. Just to brag on her for

942
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 1: a second, she said, you know, because I was like, oh, man, December,

943
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 1: like it's right before the holidays that this all blew up.

944
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 1: And she goes, oh yeah, and he had invited his

945
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 1: whole family to come for Christmas, and I go, oh,

946
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:18,719
Speaker 1: my gosh, did you guys cancel, she goes No, I

947
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:20,879
Speaker 1: just told them he left. I don't know where he's

948
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:22,759
Speaker 1: going to be, but you guys are still welcome to come.

949
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:27,320
Speaker 1: And so they came and stayed with her. Oh that's sweet.

950
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:32,319
Speaker 1: I like that. I know what a sweetheart. She's so nice.

951
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 1: I wouldn't I would be like, Nope, you and your

952
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 1: family can go fuck off. That's more my style. Yeah,

953
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 1: we took up too much time Katie catching up. Yes,

954
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 1: we loved very much on so it's good love it.

955
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:56,960
Speaker 1: We probably could have cut that. Well. You know what,

956
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:59,280
Speaker 1: we can clarify for now once and for all, because

957
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 1: I'll so. The other thing is, I keep getting these

958
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 1: people saying I was on his flight log to Epstein Island,

959
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I mean, that's why this dinner. Have

960
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:12,319
Speaker 1: I ever pretended that I didn't do something that I've done,

961
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 1: Like I am the first person to announce it to

962
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 1: the world. So I would like to clarify that neither

963
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 1: Katie or myself has ever been on a flight with

964
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein. Just a dinner. Yeah, that was my meing

965
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 1: that I was on his manifesto like she was on Jeffrey.

966
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 1: I'm like, what are they talking about. First of all,

967
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:37,720
Speaker 1: it's manifest It's not Manifesto. Sorry sorry sorry wait sorry sorry, Oh,

968
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 1: we'll have to edit that out. We can't have me

969
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 1: correct you. I keep reading and people tweeked me you

970
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 1: were on Jeffrey Epstein's manifest and I'm like, what I

971
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 1: imagine you and I going to that island and then

972
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:56,760
Speaker 1: what what are we? What are we up to there? Right? Anyway?

973
00:51:56,840 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 1: That but that's good. So yes, my dinner which Jeffrey,

974
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 1: our dinner with Jeffrey is has been discussed once and

975
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 1: for all. Okay, great, well let's take a quick break

976
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 1: and we'll be right back to wrap up. And we're

977
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:18,759
Speaker 1: back with Katie, Gerrik and Katherine, and we're wrapping up

978
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 1: today's episode. Well, Katie, is there any advice you'd like

979
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 1: from Chelsea? Yeah, Katie, yes, Oh gosh, I'm springing it

980
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:29,720
Speaker 1: on you. Oh gosh. Yes, I know. I was supposed

981
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 1: to think about that, Katherine, and I think I forgot

982
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:34,319
Speaker 1: to think about it. Okay, that's no problem. What about

983
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 1: if we just do one more question and then close

984
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 1: it up. Yeah, I think that's good. Sure, this is

985
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:42,879
Speaker 1: a bit of a heavy one, but it is right

986
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:45,840
Speaker 1: up your alleys, so I definitely wanted to get to

987
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 1: this one. This is from Marty. Marty says, Dear Chelsea.

988
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:53,399
Speaker 1: I'm the eldest of six sisters and one brother. I'm

989
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 1: also a wife and mother to three girls. We're close knit,

990
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:00,280
Speaker 1: though a little crazy. My second to youngest sister, who's

991
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:03,919
Speaker 1: seven years younger than I, has breast cancer diagnosed back

992
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:07,880
Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen. In twenty twenty, the cancer metastasized to

993
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 1: her brain, which was a heartbreak. She was given three

994
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 1: months to live and there are not a lot of

995
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 1: treatment options. My sister has miraculously lived a quality life

996
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 1: for the last two years due to her hard work,

997
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:22,759
Speaker 1: support group, and medical advances. However, we're now at a

998
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 1: point where her chemotherapy is no longer working. She's on

999
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 1: her way to take part in a phase one medical trial,

1000
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 1: hoping to help others in the future and perhaps also

1001
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 1: extend her life. My sisters and I have been her

1002
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,760
Speaker 1: cheerleaders throughout this process and have been her confidant in support.

1003
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:42,920
Speaker 1: She's an amazing person and sister. I sure hope that

1004
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 1: her life is extended through the trial, but I'm trying

1005
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:48,359
Speaker 1: to prepare for the alternative. I want to be there

1006
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 1: for her, say all the right things and provide comfort,

1007
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:53,799
Speaker 1: strength and peace. But I don't know how to do this.

1008
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:56,839
Speaker 1: I don't know what to say. I'm afraid I will

1009
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 1: say the wrong thing. I want to save her. I

1010
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 1: don't want this to happen. I'm heartbroken and I need

1011
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 1: to help myself so I can help her. Can you help?

1012
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 1: Give me answers? Thank you, and I hope this note

1013
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:13,839
Speaker 1: finds its way to you. Marty. You have really smart, sensitive,

1014
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:19,759
Speaker 1: eloquent listeners. So that was a beautiful letter, and that

1015
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 1: is a very very I think that is one of

1016
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:26,879
Speaker 1: the most profound and difficult situations. You know, we as

1017
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:30,839
Speaker 1: a culture just don't know how to help people die.

1018
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 1: You know. I think I wrote a lot about this

1019
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:35,920
Speaker 1: in my book because I was in a state of

1020
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:39,680
Speaker 1: denial and was the cheerleader for Jay, despite the fact

1021
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 1: that I knew that his illness was you know, the

1022
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:51,040
Speaker 1: likeliness of being cured was almost zero. So you know,

1023
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:54,440
Speaker 1: they have something called death duelas now, which is really

1024
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 1: interesting that they helped families and they help people deal

1025
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 1: with their own mortality. And I think clearly this is

1026
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:07,879
Speaker 1: an incredibly loving family and I wish that when Jay

1027
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:10,360
Speaker 1: was sick. We had had somebody to sit and talk

1028
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:13,840
Speaker 1: to us and a lat give us space to express

1029
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 1: our fears and our Jay's hope for the future, for

1030
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 1: our daughters to be able to have those conversations, which

1031
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 1: are the hardest conversations you can have. So I have

1032
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:32,279
Speaker 1: so much empathy and sympathy for that listener, and I

1033
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:36,320
Speaker 1: think just being there for the person and just surrounding

1034
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:40,440
Speaker 1: them by love or with love. There was this incredible

1035
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:45,520
Speaker 1: show on Netflix called From Scratch and kem By Locke

1036
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:48,759
Speaker 1: wrote it. It was based on a true story and

1037
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 1: I watched it and I just cried because her husband

1038
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:57,760
Speaker 1: died of cancer and the way he was surrounded by love,

1039
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:01,319
Speaker 1: and the way she was just there for him and

1040
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:04,719
Speaker 1: she was saying Tiamo, tiamo because he was Italian. It

1041
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:08,840
Speaker 1: was so moving. I'm started crying thinking about it. And

1042
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 1: I think families need help with this. You know, nobody

1043
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:17,959
Speaker 1: reads a book about this, Nobody. It's such a new

1044
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:23,400
Speaker 1: and painful experience. But I think it can be turned

1045
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 1: into something that's truly transcendent us. I think that people

1046
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:31,240
Speaker 1: need help, and she should get together with her loving

1047
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:34,919
Speaker 1: sisters and maybe talk about it and talk to someone

1048
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 1: who specializes in this to say. Kate Bowler has a

1049
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:41,360
Speaker 1: great podcast. She's been living with colon cancer for a

1050
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:44,359
Speaker 1: long time. She talks a lot about this this kind

1051
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:46,719
Speaker 1: of stuff. And I did a whole video with a

1052
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:50,319
Speaker 1: death duela and with Kate and with another woman who

1053
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:53,399
Speaker 1: had lost her husband right after they she gave birth

1054
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:57,960
Speaker 1: to twins. And it's a very very hard thing. What

1055
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:01,040
Speaker 1: would you say, Chelsea to this for I think it's

1056
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:03,840
Speaker 1: really important just to give as much love as possible,

1057
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:07,160
Speaker 1: you know, to anybody who is leaving this earth. The

1058
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:10,239
Speaker 1: situation is not in your control, but what you can

1059
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:12,839
Speaker 1: control is how you deal with the situation and what

1060
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 1: you provide. And I think it can be a completely

1061
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:18,240
Speaker 1: transformative relationship for you to be able to show up

1062
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 1: for your sister in this way, in this loving way,

1063
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 1: where it's not about necessarily you losing her right now,

1064
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:27,600
Speaker 1: it's about you being there for her right now and

1065
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:31,040
Speaker 1: working through your stuff on your own time with your family.

1066
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 1: I think a death duel is a great idea, and

1067
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 1: also to just start to think about death in a

1068
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 1: different way, in a way that it doesn't feel like, yes,

1069
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:43,560
Speaker 1: your sister may be leaving this earth, but her aura.

1070
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:47,160
Speaker 1: Her spirit is never going to be gone. I can't

1071
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:50,360
Speaker 1: tell you how often I feel my mother around me. Katie.

1072
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:52,240
Speaker 1: Do you have that experience with Jay or with your

1073
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 1: sister that you feel them around you, or that you

1074
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 1: have a sign when you know, like that they're giving

1075
00:57:56,680 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 1: you or anything like that a little bit? You know,

1076
00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 1: I'm not. I just don't think I'm very receptive to that, Chelsea. Yet.

1077
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 1: I wish I were. There are moments, but I sometimes think, oh,

1078
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 1: I'm just imagining that. Yeah, And I think that's true.

1079
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:16,360
Speaker 1: I think the more open you are spiritually and open

1080
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:19,080
Speaker 1: hearted you are, the more that you will be able

1081
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:22,600
Speaker 1: to receive from people once they are not on this earth.

1082
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 1: You know, the energy just transforms. It never dies. It's

1083
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 1: not like she's going to go on and live up

1084
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 1: in heaven or whatever. But her spirit will still survive

1085
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:32,920
Speaker 1: because that's the energy that we all have. You know,

1086
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:36,120
Speaker 1: our spirit goes on and whatever wherever it goes, you know,

1087
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:39,280
Speaker 1: we'll never know. But I want you to look at it.

1088
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 1: Try to start looking about it. You know. There's a

1089
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 1: book called Many Lives, Many Masters, which kind of blows

1090
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:48,480
Speaker 1: your mind about reincarnation, which I don't really believe in

1091
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:50,400
Speaker 1: but when I read that book, it's impossible not to.

1092
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:53,520
Speaker 1: These are firsthand accounts of people who have been built

1093
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:56,640
Speaker 1: under hypnosis and then speak Italian for an hour and

1094
00:58:56,680 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 1: they didn't even know they could speak Italian, you know,

1095
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 1: like crazy memories that people have from their lives. So

1096
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:06,000
Speaker 1: I just I think having that attitude and being open

1097
00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:09,600
Speaker 1: to what the possibilities of life after death are and

1098
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 1: what that means, so that it doesn't feel yes, you're

1099
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:15,520
Speaker 1: not going to see her again in her physical form,

1100
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:18,080
Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean what she's imprinted on you thus

1101
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:21,360
Speaker 1: far ever has to disappear. And you have an opportunity

1102
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 1: now to give her so much love and so much

1103
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:27,880
Speaker 1: support and really be there for her in a way

1104
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 1: that is going to elevate you as well, that is

1105
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 1: going to make you proud of the way that this

1106
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:36,080
Speaker 1: takes shape. Whether she passes on or whether she is

1107
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 1: able to survive, you should be prepared for the prior

1108
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 1: and that you can be here in this moment as

1109
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 1: somebody who is going to be holding her hand as

1110
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:48,520
Speaker 1: she leaves this world, that is going to be there

1111
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:51,160
Speaker 1: with that kind of love that all that's all you

1112
00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:53,280
Speaker 1: could ever want in this world is to be born

1113
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 1: into love and then leave in love. And so I

1114
00:59:57,400 --> 01:00:00,960
Speaker 1: also think Chelsea, you know, just they're obviously a very

1115
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 1: close family, and I think to be able to have

1116
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:07,360
Speaker 1: an honest conversation with her sister, like what do you need?

1117
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:09,840
Speaker 1: I love that you said, don't think about losing her,

1118
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 1: but just think about being there for her. What do

1119
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:16,320
Speaker 1: you need? What can I do? What are you afraid of?

1120
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:19,280
Speaker 1: I don't know if her sister has children. I mean

1121
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:22,760
Speaker 1: that's really hard too, you know, talking about even some

1122
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 1: of the practical concerns that she might have, and just

1123
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 1: telling her that she is there for her, to help

1124
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 1: her in any way big and small. And it just

1125
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 1: we're afraid, you know, we're afraid to say. I wish

1126
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:43,160
Speaker 1: I had said to Jay, I'm so afraid that you're

1127
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:47,120
Speaker 1: going to die, And can you leave something for Ellie

1128
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:49,880
Speaker 1: and Carrie who are two and six and are never

1129
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:54,720
Speaker 1: going to know their father truly? And I just think

1130
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 1: that as a culture, we need to learn the language

1131
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:02,280
Speaker 1: of loss and of illness and of death, and that

1132
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:06,360
Speaker 1: we're so afraid of our own mortality. It just it's

1133
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:10,960
Speaker 1: it's almost paralyzing, Yes, and honoring this time in her life,

1134
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:12,640
Speaker 1: you know, all the things that Katie just said, and

1135
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:16,560
Speaker 1: then also having everybody around having a party, having a

1136
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:20,000
Speaker 1: dinner party, you know, to a celebration of her life. Yeah,

1137
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:23,360
Speaker 1: that's true. You know, they do living memorial services now

1138
01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:26,000
Speaker 1: I read. Yeah, you know, and maybe you should talk

1139
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 1: to someone by my friend Laurie Gottlief, she had she's

1140
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:32,320
Speaker 1: a therapist. She had a patient with cancer really young,

1141
01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:34,760
Speaker 1: you know, I think she was in her early thirties,

1142
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:37,600
Speaker 1: and they did a whole celebration of her life while

1143
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:41,960
Speaker 1: she was living. And you know, maybe that's something as

1144
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 1: you mentioned, I didn't mean to interrupt, Chelsea, but that

1145
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:47,040
Speaker 1: that is something you could do for her, if that's

1146
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:51,440
Speaker 1: something that would be helpful. Yeah, closure with everyone is

1147
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:54,920
Speaker 1: so helpful, the whole family member just showing up and

1148
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:57,520
Speaker 1: just being there for her and every moment and fulfilling

1149
01:01:57,520 --> 01:02:00,520
Speaker 1: her requests whatever they may be. It's going to help

1150
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:02,720
Speaker 1: you through the rest of your life and your loss too,

1151
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:05,760
Speaker 1: and your grief and your families. You know. So this

1152
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:08,080
Speaker 1: is the time when families really have an opportunity to

1153
01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:10,560
Speaker 1: show up for each other. So I know it's a

1154
01:02:10,560 --> 01:02:13,240
Speaker 1: really difficult situation, but I think you can rise to

1155
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:16,880
Speaker 1: the occasion and really just be a leader, like, help

1156
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:20,240
Speaker 1: lead this so that she's as comfortable as possible and

1157
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:23,640
Speaker 1: gets anything she wants off of her chest or you know,

1158
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:27,680
Speaker 1: time spent with other family members and her wishes from

1159
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:30,600
Speaker 1: after she's gone, to honor all of those things, I

1160
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:33,080
Speaker 1: think will be really helpful in what you're dealing with.

1161
01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:36,360
Speaker 1: You know, when my mom died, Chelsea, I was just bereft,

1162
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:39,200
Speaker 1: you know, I was very close to both my parents,

1163
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:42,919
Speaker 1: and I remember my minister calling, and I go to church,

1164
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:47,000
Speaker 1: so I'm not super religious, but I really liked my

1165
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 1: minister and he called to offer his condolences, and I

1166
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:55,200
Speaker 1: told him I was just felt like an untethered Helian balloon,

1167
01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:58,919
Speaker 1: you know, I just was sort of unmoored. And he said,

1168
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:04,520
Speaker 1: remembered those who love deeply, grieved deeply, and it kind

1169
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 1: of turned a switch in me, and it made me

1170
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:14,840
Speaker 1: go from immense sadness to immense gratitude. Obviously, this letter

1171
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:18,080
Speaker 1: was written by someone with a very loving relationship with

1172
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:22,800
Speaker 1: her sisters, and to kind of take a moment and

1173
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:29,320
Speaker 1: appreciate that is also very comforting. Indeed, we ended on

1174
01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:32,760
Speaker 1: a really difficult note, but I think so many of

1175
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 1: us go through something like this that it's going to

1176
01:03:35,160 --> 01:03:37,400
Speaker 1: be really helpful to a lot of people. So thank

1177
01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:40,880
Speaker 1: you for sharing. Thank you Katie for sharing. It's always

1178
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:42,920
Speaker 1: nice to see you. I love you. I hope I

1179
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:45,720
Speaker 1: see you in person sooner than later. I hope so too,

1180
01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:48,040
Speaker 1: because there's so much I want to talk to you

1181
01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 1: about and ask you about. And yeah, I have to say, Chelsea,

1182
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:55,120
Speaker 1: I really appreciate listening to you give advice because you're

1183
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:59,840
Speaker 1: very wise, and you're very smart, and I think you're

1184
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:03,080
Speaker 1: extremely helpful to a lot of people. Not to mention

1185
01:04:03,640 --> 01:04:08,520
Speaker 1: highly entertaining, we didn't even talk about tuckered carsons. Oh

1186
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 1: my god. Oh I think that's apt because he doesn't

1187
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:18,720
Speaker 1: deserve anymore. As my daughter said, that's all they have.

1188
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 1: That's all they have, or these culture wars, and that's

1189
01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:25,840
Speaker 1: all they can talk about. And it's just so poisonous

1190
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:30,600
Speaker 1: and so ridiculois. I loved It's so stupid poisonous. Also,

1191
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:33,400
Speaker 1: my niece was up here saying, she goes. They were

1192
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:36,680
Speaker 1: Tucker Cross talking about how women. If you've ever seen

1193
01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:39,080
Speaker 1: a woman back up a car, then you know that

1194
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:42,880
Speaker 1: they're not equal to men. He said, it back up

1195
01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:46,840
Speaker 1: a car like it's almost a parody of misogyny. Right,

1196
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:50,160
Speaker 1: it's not even in real step with real misogyny, you

1197
01:04:50,200 --> 01:04:53,120
Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's like it's it's misogyny for

1198
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:58,360
Speaker 1: morons for nineteen fifties. Yeah, misogyny. So yeah, so let's

1199
01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:00,200
Speaker 1: not give him any more airtime. But they thank you

1200
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:02,800
Speaker 1: so much for coming on. Oh. I really enjoyed it.

1201
01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:05,840
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed it. Katherine, Thank you. I'd spend fun

1202
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:09,080
Speaker 1: being with you as well. And Chelsea, please let me

1203
01:05:09,120 --> 01:05:11,200
Speaker 1: know when we're in the same city because I would

1204
01:05:11,240 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 1: love to spend some quality time with you. I would too.

1205
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:16,160
Speaker 1: I would too. I'm going to reach out to you

1206
01:05:16,160 --> 01:05:17,600
Speaker 1: and let you know when I'm in New York. You're

1207
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:21,040
Speaker 1: in New York mostly right, yeah, mostly New York. Yeah? Okay, okay, cool,

1208
01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:25,080
Speaker 1: all right, lots of love to everyone, Okay, bye, bye,

1209
01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:29,320
Speaker 1: thank you. Okay. I've added some new dates for my

1210
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:32,080
Speaker 1: new Little Big Bitch tour. I'm gonna tell you the

1211
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:35,120
Speaker 1: ones that are not sold out because we're adding second

1212
01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:39,480
Speaker 1: shows in Kalamazoom, Michigan Sunday, April sixteenth, we added a

1213
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:43,160
Speaker 1: second show. We're adding a second show in Spokane, Washington,

1214
01:05:43,640 --> 01:05:45,920
Speaker 1: which is going to be Thursday. So I'll be performing

1215
01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:49,240
Speaker 1: in Spokane Thursday and Friday. And then we added Red

1216
01:05:49,320 --> 01:05:54,880
Speaker 1: Rocks Amphitheater in Colorado, which is in Morrison, Colorado, and

1217
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:59,680
Speaker 1: that is May tenth, so and then I have one

1218
01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:04,080
Speaker 1: new edition Friday, May twelve. We added Monticello, New York.

1219
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:06,840
Speaker 1: So that's a resort World Cats Skills. I don't think

1220
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:10,200
Speaker 1: I've been to the Cat Skills well ever, and we're

1221
01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:12,760
Speaker 1: continuing to add shows. We have a lot of cities

1222
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:16,840
Speaker 1: on the list, Vegas, Tulsa, Oklahoma, Alabama, a lot of

1223
01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:19,400
Speaker 1: places in Tennessee. So if you're listening, go to Chelsea

1224
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:21,880
Speaker 1: Hammo dot com for tickets and you could see my

1225
01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:27,040
Speaker 1: stand up special Revolution on Netflix, which is now streaming.

1226
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:30,360
Speaker 1: So if you'd like advice from Chelsea, just send us

1227
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:34,760
Speaker 1: an email at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com.

1228
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:39,000
Speaker 1: Dear Chelsea is a production of iHeartRadio, produced by Catherine

1229
01:06:39,080 --> 01:06:41,840
Speaker 1: Law and edited and engineered by Brad Dickert.