1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,680
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the best of Coast to Coast podcast.

2
00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:05,240
Speaker 1: Become a Coast Insider to hear the rest of this

3
00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:09,319
Speaker 1: fascinating conversation and check out recent shows where we learned

4
00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:13,560
Speaker 1: about worrisome cases of wrongful convictions and unsettling rise in

5
00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:17,919
Speaker 1: cancer found in household pets, and mysterious radio births coming

6
00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,320
Speaker 1: from deep in space. Head on over to Coast to

7
00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:22,400
Speaker 1: Coast a m dot com and sign up for Coast

8
00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:26,600
Speaker 1: Insider to start listening. Now, here's a highlight from Coast

9
00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:30,200
Speaker 1: to Coast AM on iHeart Radio. Okay, welcome back to

10
00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:34,120
Speaker 1: our Friday night program. Deborah lip is a prolific author

11
00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:36,760
Speaker 1: on magic in the occult or. Most recent book is

12
00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:39,920
Speaker 1: Magical Power for Beginners. Deborah has been a witch and

13
00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,920
Speaker 1: a priestess since the nineteen eighties. She's been writing, teaching

14
00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,040
Speaker 1: lecturing on these subjects for decades and was featured in

15
00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:52,000
Speaker 1: the documentary Ancient Mysteries Witchcraft in America. Also married to

16
00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:56,720
Speaker 1: the American druid Isaac Bonawitz. Deborah, Welcome to Coast to Coast.

17
00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,760
Speaker 1: Good to have you. It's been a long time. Its

18
00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:02,920
Speaker 1: thanks for having me back. So what's it like to

19
00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:08,240
Speaker 1: be a witch. Well, that's a you know, that's a

20
00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,520
Speaker 1: great question, because I've been a witch for most of

21
00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:13,720
Speaker 1: my life. I've been a witch for thirty five years,

22
00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,800
Speaker 1: so at some point I stopped wondering what it was

23
00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,480
Speaker 1: like and it's just being me. Were you born a

24
00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:24,479
Speaker 1: witch or were you developed into it? How did that happen? Um?

25
00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:27,760
Speaker 1: I became interested in the idea of witchcraft when I

26
00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:32,600
Speaker 1: was a teenager, and that was so long ago. But

27
00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:38,280
Speaker 1: I spent years looking for real witches and eventually found

28
00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:44,080
Speaker 1: them and got trained and initiated into a tradition of

29
00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:49,960
Speaker 1: wicca when I was twenty one. Actually, um, way long ago,

30
00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:55,480
Speaker 1: and so I have been a witch, uh my entire

31
00:01:55,520 --> 00:02:01,040
Speaker 1: adult life. What did your family think about this? Um?

32
00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:03,000
Speaker 1: You know, it took me years to get the courage

33
00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,200
Speaker 1: to tell them, So you were able to keep it

34
00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,960
Speaker 1: as you kept kept it a secret. I did at first,

35
00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,040
Speaker 1: I did for several years. I did because I thought

36
00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:18,440
Speaker 1: they'd flip out. But but the truth is, um my,

37
00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:23,560
Speaker 1: uh my, My mom was actually pretty funny about it.

38
00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,240
Speaker 1: She said, you know that she knew from the time

39
00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:30,160
Speaker 1: that I was a small child that I had spiritual

40
00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,440
Speaker 1: longings and a sort of a mystical outlook on life.

41
00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:38,280
Speaker 1: And she's very agnostic and very pragmatic, so she knew

42
00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:42,120
Speaker 1: that whatever I direction I went in, I was going

43
00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:43,880
Speaker 1: to have to go on my own. She wasn't gonna

44
00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:46,640
Speaker 1: be able to help me. So this is where I

45
00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:51,480
Speaker 1: ended up. And you know, I'm an adult, she's an adult,

46
00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,440
Speaker 1: and she's happy that I found something that makes me happy. Now,

47
00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:57,639
Speaker 1: you're very prolific as an author. I'll just rattle off

48
00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,880
Speaker 1: a few of your books. The Way of Full spell Book,

49
00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:04,000
Speaker 1: the Way of for the Elements of Ritual, the Study

50
00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,240
Speaker 1: of Richcraft, and the one we've got right here, The

51
00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:10,280
Speaker 1: Magical Power for Beginners, And let's talk about that and

52
00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,280
Speaker 1: how you raise and send energy for spells that work.

53
00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,280
Speaker 1: You would be considered by the way a good which

54
00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:21,200
Speaker 1: would you not? Well, I hope so as opposed to

55
00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:25,600
Speaker 1: an evil cackling witch. Well, I I do actually cackle

56
00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:29,000
Speaker 1: it if you would, you come on give us a shot.

57
00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,440
Speaker 1: That's pretty good. That wasn't an evil cackle though, not

58
00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,040
Speaker 1: like the one from the Wizard of Oz. I don't

59
00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:41,520
Speaker 1: really have an evil cackle. Um. I have a temper um.

60
00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:46,160
Speaker 1: I do consider myself a good person. I try to

61
00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,320
Speaker 1: do right Um, I'm not a good two shoes, but

62
00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:52,080
Speaker 1: I try to do the right thing. Do you have

63
00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:55,280
Speaker 1: a wart on your nose? Oh? I have a pimple

64
00:03:55,320 --> 00:04:01,760
Speaker 1: on my chicks. Why do people when they hear the

65
00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:06,680
Speaker 1: word which, think of evil first and foremost? I've gotten

66
00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:10,440
Speaker 1: a handful of emails from people today that said, George,

67
00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:14,400
Speaker 1: protect yourself tonight during this interview. We don't want anything

68
00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:18,160
Speaker 1: to happen to you when you interview this which and

69
00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:22,240
Speaker 1: you know, I reread the material your book, and I'm

70
00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,480
Speaker 1: saying this is not a mean person. But why would

71
00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,039
Speaker 1: people hear the word which? Do they think that's it? Well?

72
00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:34,400
Speaker 1: It's it's interesting because there's there's several different historical threads

73
00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:41,000
Speaker 1: that tie into that. So if we go back, um

74
00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,200
Speaker 1: a very long time, if we go back a couple

75
00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:47,520
Speaker 1: of thousand years UM, or or even just a few

76
00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,880
Speaker 1: hundred years, you're going to find really all over the

77
00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:56,160
Speaker 1: world people who were considered which is who um were

78
00:04:56,200 --> 00:05:05,160
Speaker 1: in fact evil. So visualize can comunity somewhere in Bronze's Europe. Um,

79
00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,400
Speaker 1: there are going to be any number of people in

80
00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:11,359
Speaker 1: that community who do magic and who do spells, and

81
00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:15,159
Speaker 1: who can bless and can heal and can deliver babies,

82
00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,159
Speaker 1: and can do all of these sort of things, and

83
00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:23,080
Speaker 1: they're not considered witches, and the person in that community

84
00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,400
Speaker 1: who is using that magic for evil might be called

85
00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:31,279
Speaker 1: a witch. Well, then the Inquisition comes along, and the

86
00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:37,320
Speaker 1: Inquisition does some very significant things. One of the things

87
00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,520
Speaker 1: it does is it says that anybody who worships the

88
00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:45,520
Speaker 1: moon or the you know, Diana by moonlight is a witch.

89
00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,560
Speaker 1: One of the things that the Inquisition also says is

90
00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:54,159
Speaker 1: that anybody who does magic, even for good, is a witch.

91
00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:59,600
Speaker 1: It destroys the distinction that used to be made between

92
00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,400
Speaker 1: a village what they would call a cunning woman or

93
00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:06,920
Speaker 1: a wise woman and a witch. It just destroyed that distinction.

94
00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,360
Speaker 1: If you're doing a spell, you're a witch. End of story.

95
00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:13,200
Speaker 1: Forget about it. If you lived, if you lived in

96
00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:17,880
Speaker 1: the sixteen hundreds in Massachusetts, would you be burned at

97
00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:21,080
Speaker 1: the steak in Salem? Um? They didn't burn them at

98
00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:25,240
Speaker 1: the stake in Salem, they hung them in Sally. Um.

99
00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:30,800
Speaker 1: They've gotten to you. Those people were who were killed

100
00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:36,360
Speaker 1: were probably not witches. They were caught up in a frenzy. Um.

101
00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:39,240
Speaker 1: But for doing the stuff that I do, and even

102
00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:41,960
Speaker 1: just for being as outspoken and and you know, as

103
00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:45,600
Speaker 1: obnoxious as I am, I would certainly have gotten in trouble. Yeah,

104
00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:47,880
Speaker 1: you would have. They would have taken you away for sure.

105
00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:51,640
Speaker 1: Uppity women had no chance in those No, no, no, no,

106
00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,720
Speaker 1: especially uppity women who were witches. Yeah, there you go.

107
00:06:56,320 --> 00:07:01,000
Speaker 1: So so really in modern times, UM, many of us

108
00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:05,680
Speaker 1: have basically it's it's like a reclaimed word, you know,

109
00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,599
Speaker 1: basically saying Okay, if you're going to call everybody a witch,

110
00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:11,280
Speaker 1: we're good with that. We will take that word. But

111
00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:18,160
Speaker 1: you do cast spells? Do you cast curses on people? Um?

112
00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,360
Speaker 1: As a general rule? No, And what I want to

113
00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,200
Speaker 1: say is I don't as a general rule. But it

114
00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,119
Speaker 1: is a thing that can be done. There are people

115
00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,680
Speaker 1: who are going to who are going to say, oh,

116
00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,760
Speaker 1: there's no such thing as casting curses if you're a witch.

117
00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:39,040
Speaker 1: That's not true. There are people who do it, you know. Um.

118
00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,800
Speaker 1: But and and the technique is the same. Magic is

119
00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,280
Speaker 1: like electricity. You can use it to make your house

120
00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:47,640
Speaker 1: nice and bright, or you can use it to kill

121
00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:50,600
Speaker 1: somebody in an electric chair. Have you ever, in a

122
00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:56,880
Speaker 1: argumentative stupor or being upset cast a bad curse on someone?

123
00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:00,240
Speaker 1: Somebody or spell, not because I've lost my temp or no.

124
00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:05,679
Speaker 1: Um In in witchcraft, I have done things, um that

125
00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:11,640
Speaker 1: are called bindings, which is when you um use magic

126
00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:16,640
Speaker 1: to prevent somebody that you consider to be toxic from

127
00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:20,800
Speaker 1: doing from doing further harm. And I would always recommend

128
00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:24,920
Speaker 1: to somebody that you try to do that first before

129
00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,120
Speaker 1: you jump into the cursing, and that you don't do

130
00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,800
Speaker 1: it because you lose your temper. You do it because

131
00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:35,880
Speaker 1: um you have to. I mean, essentially, if you're meeting

132
00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:42,000
Speaker 1: out justice or on your own, you should do it justly. Okay,

133
00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:45,200
Speaker 1: I get that. I get that now. When you cast

134
00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:51,080
Speaker 1: good spells, and as the term the terminology of a

135
00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,560
Speaker 1: curse is that always bad. So you have good spells,

136
00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:59,040
Speaker 1: bad spells, but curses to me sound like they're all bad. Well,

137
00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:04,160
Speaker 1: I know somebody who cast who who was living in

138
00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:10,719
Speaker 1: an urban area and there was a serial rapist, and um,

139
00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:14,520
Speaker 1: he and and some other local witches got together and

140
00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:17,000
Speaker 1: put a curse on that rapist. And the curse was

141
00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,520
Speaker 1: very specific. It was that he would be stupid and

142
00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:23,400
Speaker 1: clumsy and get caught. And he got caught. Yes, good,

143
00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:30,520
Speaker 1: so that's a curse technically, but for a good cause. Exactly.

144
00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:32,800
Speaker 1: I get it. I get it, okay, even though it

145
00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:36,400
Speaker 1: had a negative connotation as a curse, because it didn't

146
00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:40,720
Speaker 1: do something to somebody, it was worthwhile, it was it

147
00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:44,280
Speaker 1: was a self defense course, I would call it. Yeah.

148
00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,599
Speaker 1: And and good for the community, I would I would say,

149
00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,880
Speaker 1: I would say that the men involved at least were

150
00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:53,439
Speaker 1: not at risk, but they were caring about their community

151
00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,800
Speaker 1: and that's a traditional role of the witch. Listen to

152
00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,800
Speaker 1: more Coast to Coast a M every weeknight at one

153
00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,600
Speaker 1: m Eastern and go to Coast to Coast a m

154
00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:03,680
Speaker 1: dot com for more