WEBVTT - Ep. 564: De-extinction: Can We Make a Mammoth, and Why Should We? 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:13.320 This is the Meeater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:18.599 bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listeningcast, you can't 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:22.040 predict anything. The meat Eater podcast is brought to you 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:25.520 by First Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands, 0:00:25.600 --> 0:00:28.880 or scouting for el First Light has performance apparel to 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:31.960 support every hunter in every environment. Check it out at 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:35.199 first light dot com, f I R S T L 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:40.640 I t E dot com. Hey guys, if you like 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:45.600 watching the podcasts from the Meteater podcast Network on YouTube, 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:47.239 you need to get your little butt over to the 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:50.519 meat Eater Podcast Network, which is a whole new channel 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:55.560 on YouTube different from the normal me Eater YouTube channel. 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:59.120 You need to take action here. Go to the meat 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:03.640 Eater podcas Cast network on YouTube and subscribe. Keep your 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:06.640 subscription to the other thing. You'll be subscribed to both 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:09.800 and you'll get all of our podcast videos there. Going forward, 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:12.600 they will not be where they used to live. Go 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:21.840 to the new place. Thank you, Brody. They're gonna do. 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:24.840 We've talked about this in the past. It's looking more 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:27.360 and more likely that Colorado will have a wolverine reintroduction. 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:30.600 It's in the works for sure. At the same time, 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:35.240 this whole ESA thing is going on. Colorado has approved 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:39.440 a reintroduction. I don't think it's gonna happen overnight, but 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:42.480 it's the plans are in the works. They got to 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:46.320 go through some hoops to get it done. And like 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:50.320 you said, you know they belong there. It's a native species, right. 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:52.520 Yeah, I'd like to see it happen. I don't, like, 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:54.440 I'm not a fan of who's doing it, but i'd 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:56.160 like to see it happen. Look, if someone you don't 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:58.120 like give you five hundred bucks is still five hundred bucks. 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:03.000 So how's that fall online with your uh, with your 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:04.640 feelings on them being listed. 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:09.120 I don't think that they I just don't see that 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:11.359 they should have been listed. 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:13.800 Here because there's never a lot of them in the 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:14.480 first place. 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:16.880 Yeah, it's like that, there's just not a lot of 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:20.920 historic data of what they were going on. They're largely 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:23.320 going on some you know, they're largely going on some 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:26.919 findings from BC extrapolating that that will happen here. It's 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:30.200 like a future it's like a future listing. It's like, well, 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:33.760 I could see there being problems in the future based 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:40.040 on gut Therefore, and then I just I also know 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:42.280 how to be leveraged, Like I already know how to 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:44.600 be leveraged. Yeah, well I think it's it's a I 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:45.680 think it's a proxy fight. 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:48.920 Yeah, And that leverage is the same concern I have, 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:52.280 Like I'm all for the reintroduction in Colorado. 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:55.720 Where are they pulling wolverines from? Like where did they 0:02:57.440 --> 0:02:58.320 so robust? 0:02:59.080 --> 0:02:59.200 Right? 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:00.519 Because it can't be a penri. 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:02.960 They probably haven't even thought about that. 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:05.200 Yeah, I don't think they've gotten that far. They didn't 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:07.720 put a lot of thought into the wolf reintruction. 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:08.320 But they eventually got them. 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:09.639 Yeah, they got them. 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:10.799 They'll get them. 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:13.600 But the leverage you're worried about is the same leverage 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:17.440 I'm worried about with an administration like the Polis administration, 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:21.680 like leveraging that against hunting, against trapping, being like, oh, 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:23.960 this area is closed now, you can't go in there. 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:27.799 It's a refuge for an endangered species, which means we're 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:33.480 going to prohibit uh, human travel or whatever, trapping or 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:37.560 anything that could conceivably harm that species. 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:40.920 Yeah, I mean that administration has made it clear that 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:41.880 that's their angle. 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:44.560 So yeah, I think it'll be It's like I fear 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:48.800 that it'll become a proxy thing where they're they're like, 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:52.720 what's happening here is they're kind of talking about wolverines, 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:54.880 but they're kind of not Yeah, they're talking about backcountry 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:59.560 travel yep, right to talk about snowmobile use trapping restrictions. 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:02.880 Yeah, I mean it's kind of like, like you've talked 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:05.600 about it before, the Lynx thing here, Like there's links 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:09.840 up in northwestern Montana, but down here in southwestern Montana 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:13.960 where there's not really like there's this low elevation habitat 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:18.360 that's like potential links habitat where you can't trap bobcats. 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:22.760 Like I could see some version of that happening down 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:23.440 in Colorado. 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:24.080 I don't know. 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:29.240 Yeah, they drew it with a they drew the lines. 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:33.560 What's the thing I'm looking for? Like, uh, not surgically right, 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:38.800 like the Lynx recovery area including a lot of stuff 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:41.560 that never had, never has had, and never will have 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:44.159 a links But I think there's probably there's work on 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:46.600 that being done. I don't know if it'll be applied right, But. 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:51.839 For the wolverines are like those boundary lines of wolverine habitat, right, 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:56.120 it should be like pretty close proximity to like permanent snowfields, 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:58.160 glacial areas. 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:03.719 A convenience store, and Wahhington State downtown. 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:07.560 You know, yeah, yeah. 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:09.680 What spurred a lot is I recently got a trail 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:12.559 cam photo of a I got a trail camp photo 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:15.719 of a wolverine, which is sweet. You haven't seen that, No, No, 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:19.320 I got a magic I got. I got a camera 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:22.160 hanging on one tree. Put a set right there by 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:25.279 the camera. I got a camera hanging on a tree. 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:30.760 And on that camera, I've gotten gray wolves, Kyo, red fox, bobcat, 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:35.520 mountain lion, black bear, now wolverine, Martin, longtail weasel, A 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:37.440 lot of predators. Man, I wait, I don't know. I'm 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:39.400 waiting for a grizzly and I'm waiting for a grizzly 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:39.919 and linkstone. 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:40.480 What's amazing? 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:42.880 All all the same freaking tree. 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:44.320 That's really cool. 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:45.520 They like that tree? 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:50.640 Yea, I had that, and that wolverine came through. So 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:54.920 I posted that picture and generated a lot of discussion. 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:57.360 I posted a picture and used that occasion to gripe 0:05:57.400 --> 0:06:01.920 about use that occasion to gripe about the move to 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:05.400 threatened and how the State of Montana is suing against it. 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:09.640 And then and then you know, people guy wrote A 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:11.159 guy wrote in what I thought was gonna be a 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:14.120 well A guy wrote in where he starts out pretty 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:19.960 good attacking my position, but then he lost all credibility 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:23.560 with me because in the end he uses discreete population 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:27.560 segment when in fact it's a distinct population segment. And 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:29.279 I'm like, this guy, have andy what he's talking about. 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:33.520 He even capitalized it, so he doesn't know what a 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:34.320 DPS is. 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:43.600 So change your email before you ran back in it was. 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:47.880 Out the door with what he thinks. No, a lot 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:50.000 of people are griping about that, but I'm not giving 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:51.880 an inch, dude. I'm not giving an inch on it. 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:53.880 Stick to your guns man, like. 0:06:53.880 --> 0:07:02.200 I don't uh. I'm a big time wilderness advocate, big 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:06.840 time yep, I pointed out in this thing like I 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:09.960 have come out all the time, like you know, continued 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:14.640 protections for anwar in opposition to Ambler Road. We just 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:17.560 did a podcast celebrating the heal the wilderness area and 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:19.840 the creation of the Wilderness system, which we've done a 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:23.000 bunch of times, and it's like, don't come at me 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:25.280 about it from that angle. In this case, I just 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:27.520 think I think the wolverine thing is bullshit. 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:32.240 Well, obviously we have a big issue with wildlife populations. 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:35.520 Right when we talk about scientific management, which is a 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:39.240 conversation we have all the time, right, it's like it 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:43.440 can be used for good and bad. From my perspective, 0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:46.360 where it's like, well, we don't know how many animals 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:49.400 there are, so we need to figure that out, but 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:53.000 then we can set our regulations. It's like, but we 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:57.320 never do know how many animals there are, Like we never, 0:07:57.440 --> 0:07:58.120 we never will. 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:01.400 Yeah. When they started doing the population work on wolverines 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:04.200 and and when it started the population work on wolverines 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:09.440 in Idaho, Montana wholming, the biggest takeaway was Jesus wolvernes 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:12.720 all over the place, and al a sudden out of 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:15.560 that came this. I just don't I think it's I 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:16.880 don't think it's a good use of time. 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:19.880 Well, and there's there's always a focus on did it exists? 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:20.960 I haven't introduced you yet. 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:25.120 I'm just gonna jump in because. 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:28.800 We're you're gonna talk for two hours. 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:30.480 I didn't know we had such formal rules here. 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:31.840 Please just started. 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:32.480 There's always this. 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:34.640 Focus on what where had it existed in there? And 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:38.280 there's usually little focus on what what did it perform 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:40.880 for the ecosystem? What good does it do back to 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:43.560 the ecosystem? And I think that's where the narrative needs 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:46.400 to be going, not historically where did it range? And 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:51.360 because we're usually taking snapshots that could be yeah, completely 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:53.839 out of context for why the animals were pushed into 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:56.400 a certain area. But we need to be focused on 0:08:56.440 --> 0:08:59.560 how do we bring species back into ecosystems that perform 0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:04.000 specific functions to improve biodiversity, to improve ecosystem health, and 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:06.640 be less focused on did it exist there? One day 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:07.920 two hundred and fifty years ago. 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:12.600 Mwown somebody up in Lewistown, Montana one day. 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:16.200 Yeah, convenience store in Washington. Right, somebody's like, oh, look 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:17.000 look at the data. 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:21.280 I mean it arranged in the dairy aisle. So we 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:23.040 got to put it back. That would be a daytime? 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:24.319 Is that? 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:27.040 Ladies, gentlemen you here, you just heard the voice of 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:33.079 Matt James from Colossal Laboratories and Biosciences Company. This don't 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:36.440 I don't want to. I don't want to trivialize, Okay, 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:39.600 I don't. I'm going to titillate people without trivializing what 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:41.280 you do, okay. 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:41.920 Should be interesting. 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:46.319 This is this is this is the company, These are these, 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:50.880 these are the people leading the charge, uh with you know, 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:55.319 the most likely path forward on this idea which you 0:09:55.400 --> 0:10:02.600 discussed before, cloning a wooly mammoth, of resurrecting the Tasmanian tiger, 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:08.600 of perhaps one day putting Dodo birds back on the landscape. 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:10.960 What was their island, Mauritius, Mauritius. 0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:17.240 So we're going to talk about de extinction. And again 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:18.959 when I said, don't want to trivialize it, because we're 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:25.080 also going to talk about preventing extinction exactly. So a 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:26.800 lot of emphasis in this world gets put on in 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:29.320 the news. It always gets like cloning a mammoth, cloning 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:32.559 a man with cloning a mammoth. But out of that 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:38.640 work and it's almost become shorthand for a collection of 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:45.079 it's become shorthand for like this, a collection of technological 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:50.440 advancements that are applicable around biodiversity and applicable around preventing extinction. 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:54.840 And then and then if need to be de extinction exactly. 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:58.040 The extinction is sort of the intersection of this amazing 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:00.920 set of technologies that are all emerging at a similar time, 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:03.080 and we sit at that intersection today, which has given 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:06.800 us the ability to not exactly clone a wily mammoth. 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:08.760 We know we cannot do that. I think you had 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:11.120 Best Shapiro on years ago, and she talked about this 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:14.600 problem exactly, but to be able to engineer genomes to 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:18.320 begin to mirror extinct species and bring that species back 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:22.120 in a way that is as representative of the extinct 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:24.400 animal as it could be, and what. 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:26.280 We talked about last night. Maybe I'm gonna have you 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:28.520 start with this real quick. This is not going to 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:31.240 be the focus of our conversation. But let's say a 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:33.960 fella had a once in a lifetime hunting dog. 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:35.120 Let's say that. 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:39.480 Okay, let's say this Yanni has a beloved dog and 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:40.920 it fell off a cliff recently. 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:44.080 It's fine, that's a real story, that's true. I'm sorry. 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:47.880 Let's say that Yannie's dog had fallen off that cliff 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:54.800 and wasn't okay, can you walk through, how quickly walked 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:59.360 through how he might wind up with in the It's possible, now, 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:04.920 it's expensive, but possible. How he might wind up with 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:06.360 that dog all over again? 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:08.880 Well, I mean this kind of goes back to the 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:11.600 late nineties when we talked about Dolly the Sheep and cloning. Right, 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:14.280 this is just basic cloning technology and the extension is 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:17.679 an advancement thereof. But so for this example, we're really 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:20.280 talking about cloning. So, whether you had a living dog 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:22.720 or a dog that you know, unfortunately just passed away, 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:26.960 you fresh dead, yeah, unfortunately, I hate to say it 0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:29.320 that way, but you need a fresh dead animal or 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:32.199 a living animal, and you can extract living cells either 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:35.760 from skin tissue, where there's even some novel technologies that 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:38.880 might include being able to do this from blood. And 0:12:39.360 --> 0:12:41.960 what you do is you take those cells or those 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:44.880 tissues and you put them into a petri dish essentially, right, 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:47.080 You're going to culture this and you find out what 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:49.240 are the culture conditions so that we can begin to 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:53.120 take that one tissue and proliferate into this living cell line. 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:55.280 And then we go and select very specific cells. We're 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:57.280 going to look for things like epithelial cells, and we 0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:00.320 can make something called the fiber blast line. You have 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:02.560 that we just freeze it, you put it on liquid nitrogen. 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:04.880 It will live forever in a biobank. 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:06.000 Excuse me, and. 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:08.359 So Mingus is in a biobank. 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:11.079 Now Migus is on ice in a biobank, and one 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:12.600 day you say, you know, I really want to see 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:16.120 Mingus again. We have the ability to be able to 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:19.480 go back to Mingus, take his cells, put them into 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:22.079 the o site or the egg of a dog, and 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:25.280 fertilize an embryo culture that embryo in vitro and then 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:27.040 eventually transferred into a surrogate dog. 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:29.560 That surrogate would just state sixty. 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:33.000 Five days later, you know, little day zero, Mingus is 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:36.680 born and it is an exact living replica of the 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:39.800 dog or whatever animal you were looking for. Now, obviously there's. 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:41.600 There's with a crazy blood lust. 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:46.080 Right, There's one thing that I think is always important 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:48.199 with cloning is we have to talk about nature versus nurture. 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:50.280 Right, your dog. 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:52.880 Might not end up being you know, Mingus two dot 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:55.920 oh might not be Mgus one dot oh because the 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:59.040 way you raised the two might vary, and that plays 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:01.080 a big role, especially in hunting dogs. As you guys 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:03.680 know well better than I do, that that training that 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:06.080 happens really early on, that sort of life experience is 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:08.040 as important as genetics often. 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:11.960 Well dog wise, right, like, the way I was able 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:15.000 to train a dog ten years ago is a lot 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:17.400 different than the way I was able to train a 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:21.680 dog two years ago. So like that may be changed 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:25.360 because I changed, Am I improved as a trainer? Change? 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:26.000 Right? 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:31.920 No, I'm way busier now, you're actually way way worse. 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:37.280 Yeah that on that thing, like uh, the nature versus 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:39.400 nurture thing, but on this idea that pretty soon you 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:45.440 would be able to just get your you know, get 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:51.120 your best hunting dogs cloned, and instead of just going 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:54.480 back to the same sire, the same bitch and getting 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:57.160 another dog out of that litter, you're gonna wind up 0:14:57.160 --> 0:14:59.360 with something closer, right. 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:02.120 You're gonna be because right every time you breed, you're 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:05.760 sort of shuffling genetics, and you know, the sire and 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:08.840 the bitches DNA will mix and you'll get a different 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:14.040 you know, set of phenotypes. Then you might have just 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:17.360 from the original, just like you might have siblings that 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:18.680 are not exactly the same as you. 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:20.600 It's because it was. 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:23.880 A reshuffling of the genomic information by cloning, and you're 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:26.960 actually taking that full genome and just doing it again. 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:31.120 Like how okay, how much would it look? Like? How 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:34.440 much would mingus two point zero look like mingos are. 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:36.520 The spots in the same place, So yeah, if it's 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:37.360 a spotted dog. 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:41.080 So this is a great question because there are several 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:44.120 things that control the way that our genes are expressed 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:44.840 into phenotypes. 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:45.120 Right. 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:48.000 So one of them is obviously the genetics are what 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:50.640 are the genetics telling the cells to make? But the 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:53.400 other is a is a process called epigenetics. So basically, 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:57.880 what are the environmental forces and around the expression of 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:01.080 those genes, there's regulatory pathways. Maybe you know, say you 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:03.440 were supposed to be six foot four, but you were 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:05.680 undernourished as a child, You're not going to grow to 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:08.800 be six foot four. That's an epigenetic effect, right. So 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:12.280 you could clone three minguses right now and each of 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:15.200 them would show up and look very very similar, but 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:19.000 those those spots might end up in slightly different sizes 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:23.240 or areas, and and sometimes you see that drift, you know, 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:26.280 there's uh, they've been cloning in race and not racehorses, sorry, 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:28.640 but like polo horses and dressage and horses like that. 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:30.720 And you can go into a barn and you can see, 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:32.600 you know a lot of these sort of brown horses 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:34.600 with a nice white spot on their on their face, 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:37.480 and it's slightly different on each one. It's the trickiest 0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:40.800 thing you've ever seen. Yeah, but from afar they are 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:42.080 identical animals. 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:50.000 How much do you think you capture? It's it's let's 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:55.160 say you take Mngus okay, and you give Mingus a stimuli, okay, 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:58.200 Like like Mingus is And I don't know if it's 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:00.160 true or not, but Mingus is the sort of do 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:05.440 that that if he gets up on the table okay 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:09.320 and eats leftovers off the table when you're you know, 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:12.040 out of the room. He's the kind of dog that 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:15.840 man you tell him one time that ain't good, he 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:20.439 ain't gonna do it again, right, Like, if that's a 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:24.040 response to stimuli, what would you expect to see about 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:26.960 the cloned dog's response to stimuli? 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:30.440 Well, it just depends on how it was raised. I 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:33.600 would expect you know that that's really operant conditioning, right 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:36.520 when we talk about sort of how can you uh 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:41.399 show a stimuli and then get a required behavior and 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:44.400 provide a consequence. Sometimes it's positive, like you fed the dog, 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:45.800 you know, you gave him a treat because they did 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:47.520 what you wanted. And other times to maybe yelled at 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:50.840 the dog and the dog ran off, so negative conditioning there, right. 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:54.160 If they were raised the same way, I bet it'd 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:56.640 be identical. But if one was raised by a really 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:58.240 great dog trainer, in the other by somebody who just 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:00.359 let his dog feet off the table, those two manuses 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:02.800 would probably behave very different directions. 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:06.960 Is there another version of this where you can like 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:10.840 put add ons into mingus two point. 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:13.560 Oh, Like, let's say, are getting into what we're doing? 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:21.000 Yeah, strong, Yeah, we're. 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:24.439 Not enhancing that. You know, we would call those like 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:26.760 genetic enhancements or something. We're not really doing that for 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:29.720 dogs or for things. We're focused on the conservation side. 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:32.639 But you know, to that point, yes, you could say 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:38.080 we want to confer a specific disease resistance to this animal. Right, 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:40.440 Distemper in dogs is an issue and they found you know. 0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:41.280 Like with wolves. 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:44.000 If you see a black wolf, that's actually a sign 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:46.960 that there's been dogs that have integressed into that dog's 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:50.399 genetic line. But it also is closely correlated with a 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:53.040 resistance to distemper, which dogs stand. 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:53.640 Is that right? 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:55.720 Yeah, so if you see a black wolf, now it 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:57.080 has to be a header. As I guess you're. 0:18:56.920 --> 0:18:58.439 Looking at old dog DNA. 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:00.919 You're looking at old dog dna. Yeah, wolves did not 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:03.160 evolve the black yeah. 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:03.520 Uh. 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:07.000 And but it also is highly correlated with distemper resistance. 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:11.840 So you could identify that gene and finding that doesn't 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:14.919 have it and using genetic editing tools, you know, the 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:17.880 most famous being crisper. You could drop that in there 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:20.560 and then you know reasonably when the doug's born, it 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:21.840 will be resistant to distemper. 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:27.880 All right, can can we move on from the pet project? Oh? 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:31.440 No, that was that was a warm Yeah. We're gonna 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:32.879 do a couple of things that we're gonna get into that. 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:35.360 We're gonna get into all the big all the big 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:36.159 crazy stuff. 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:38.800 Yeah, that's like your boutique making money on the side 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:39.200 spin off. 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:42.040 We're not even doing it, but it's I think it's 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:43.800 an easy example for people to understand. 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:47.040 Okay, let's close that conversation out with with this. When 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:51.280 you crystal ball it, do you picture in ten years, 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:57.919 do you picture that becoming kind of how we're producing 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:03.360 hunting dogs, how we're producing specialty dogs, how we're producing 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:06.560 drug sniffing dogs. Where you have these like you know, 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:08.480 one and one hundred attributes. 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:12.360 Yeah, I think, you know, maybe ten years or too soon, 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:14.800 just because there's some social acceptance. But in the working 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:21.199 dog class, especially honey dogs and you know, say police dogs, Yeah, absolutely. 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:22.880 Like the military is like, no, I want that. Why 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:25.000 would you want a bunch of those? Yeah? If this 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:27.120 is a business, I don't want to go through thousands 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:28.960 of dogs to find that exactly. 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:30.760 You know, if this is a business, fore you're gonna 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:33.000 find a way how can we most efficiently produce that, 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:39.440 you know, reliably reproduce that phenotype. Absolutely, And the science 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:41.399 is there today and it will just in ten your 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:43.600 time be so scalable and cheaper that I think it'll 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:44.480 be widely accepted. 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:46.919 I asked you yesterday to throw me a ballpark on 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:49.639 what this Mingus project? Are you comfortable doing this? 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:50.000 Sure? 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:52.119 Yeah, I said, like give me a ballpark. Like Yanni 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:54.199 wants a new Mingus. What's he looking at? If you 0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:55.760 just put at fair market. 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:59.199 You know, seventy five K I think just because you know, 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:00.960 and that's a number I just kind of pulled out 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:03.240 a roundabout number when we were talking about Now you're. 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:06.439 Talking about cost. That's that's a cost that's not retail markup. 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:09.560 No, because there's there's just so many. Yeah, there are so. 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:12.679 Many retail markum Sky's the limit. Yeah, I mean just 0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:16.040 looking at the duck hunting world, like what guys will 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:19.520 pay for a finished Labrador Retriever or a German short 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:22.879 hair pointer that somebody else has gone through the raising 0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:28.040 of with a good background, And that good background typically 0:21:28.119 --> 0:21:30.840 just means everybody thinks that the dogs coming out of 0:21:30.840 --> 0:21:32.000 this candel are the best. 0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:32.480 Yep. 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:35.520 I mean you can put whatever price tag you want, 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:39.479 but what are some numbers you heard that people are 0:21:39.520 --> 0:21:43.520 paying for them? Basically anything under a quarter of a million? Wow, 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:45.040 for the right person. 0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:49.520 Yeah, man, I'm in an awkward position. Oh great, Yeah, 0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:52.400 I want to clarify this is not what you do. Correct, 0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:53.840 it's not what your company does. 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:57.439 But I'm starting to get an idea it's. 0:21:57.480 --> 0:22:01.280 Your company does. I like layout, like, just take a 0:22:01.320 --> 0:22:04.680 wild ass guess. Take a wild ass guess. Let's put 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:08.600 it into this case, like the military. You know they 0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:12.760 have dogs they use in combat operations whatever, and they 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:14.800 want to order like a whole bunch of these dogs. 0:22:15.600 --> 0:22:18.960 Uh Like what would that be? Wild ass guests? I 0:22:19.000 --> 0:22:21.360 mean you just think you don't discoverment spending. I think 0:22:21.359 --> 0:22:23.439 you could go north of a million or two million 0:22:23.520 --> 0:22:27.440 on them the right animal, right, Yeah. 0:22:27.160 --> 0:22:32.640 Think of the falconry and racing pigeon world like sultans 0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:35.880 of Like, yeah, we're into we're into money than like 0:22:36.920 --> 0:22:38.560 I mean, we're dancing around races. 0:22:39.040 --> 0:22:41.920 Let's we're gonna talk about what mad actually does. 0:22:42.080 --> 0:22:46.760 What everything before just now, that's just gonna be the 0:22:46.760 --> 0:22:48.000 prices for animals. 0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:52.879 Okay, because what they're actually doing is fascinating. We're go 0:22:53.000 --> 0:22:54.639 getting what they're actually doing in just one in just 0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:56.280 one second, I was just little. That was just a 0:22:56.320 --> 0:23:08.560 little warm up. The kids podcast, we keep talking about, 0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:12.640 starts July fifth, right on this podcast feed. We've said 0:23:12.680 --> 0:23:14.119 it a bunch of times. How many are we making? 0:23:14.280 --> 0:23:14.560 Five? 0:23:14.640 --> 0:23:19.440 We're making five kids podcasts. Whether we make number six 0:23:19.520 --> 0:23:21.880 depends on if your kids like it. Yeah, I can't 0:23:21.880 --> 0:23:24.760 say any plane or net. Each episode of the kids 0:23:24.800 --> 0:23:27.040 podcast goes like this, They're quick, how long are they? 0:23:27.040 --> 0:23:28.359 What are they? Where are they coming to? Net? Phil 0:23:28.400 --> 0:23:32.240 twenty fifteen to twenty Okay, it's a three x structure. 0:23:33.040 --> 0:23:36.400 There's why it's the way it is, where we explain 0:23:36.640 --> 0:23:41.760 why something is the way it is. It could be 0:23:42.200 --> 0:23:44.960 Why are teddy bears called teddy bears? It could be 0:23:46.920 --> 0:23:49.959 what is an anadamous fish? It could be when you 0:23:50.000 --> 0:23:55.560 say nocturnal, what's the opposite? And is there a middle ground? 0:23:57.440 --> 0:23:59.439 I like it asking the question. 0:23:59.560 --> 0:24:06.159 Yeah, there is. It's called crepuscular. Okay. Other Wise the 0:24:06.160 --> 0:24:09.480 way it is is that we're doing Oh what exactly 0:24:09.520 --> 0:24:11.840 did Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett do for a living? 0:24:13.000 --> 0:24:15.439 Why it's the way it is? What exactly were they 0:24:15.520 --> 0:24:17.720 up to? Why does everybody know about those guys? What 0:24:17.760 --> 0:24:20.960 did they do for a living? Can you think of more? 0:24:21.000 --> 0:24:22.680 Why it's the way it is? We just do them all. 0:24:23.040 --> 0:24:24.680 I think you just listed all of them. Okay, So 0:24:24.800 --> 0:24:27.639 why it's the way it is? I host Why it 0:24:27.640 --> 0:24:31.560 is the way it is? I tell your kid, why 0:24:31.680 --> 0:24:34.520 is the way it is? What's my credential? I've been 0:24:34.520 --> 0:24:36.199 telling my kids why is the way it is? For 0:24:36.200 --> 0:24:41.680 fourteen years and everyone else? So that's why I took 0:24:41.800 --> 0:24:46.200 That's why that's my job. And then there's Guess that Critter. 0:24:46.280 --> 0:24:49.880 Guess that Critter, which Krinn works on, but it's hosted 0:24:49.880 --> 0:24:54.000 by my lovely wife who hosts. She just she does 0:24:54.040 --> 0:24:57.840 the read and guess that critter where we do wild 0:24:57.960 --> 0:25:01.000 we come up. We use animals to have the craziest vocalizations, 0:25:01.440 --> 0:25:05.520 the most varied, craziest vocalizations, and we play vocalizations and 0:25:05.520 --> 0:25:11.040 then we start providing a bed of clues. Uh. The 0:25:11.119 --> 0:25:13.000 earlier kid gets it. The smarter kid is. 0:25:16.560 --> 0:25:21.000 You'll be able to take that score to your Montsori. 0:25:20.560 --> 0:25:24.120 School and you'll also know whether you want to pull 0:25:24.160 --> 0:25:25.520 blood from that kid and send it to me. 0:25:29.200 --> 0:25:31.000 Uh. 0:25:31.760 --> 0:25:35.880 Then the final thing is kids trivia, and we bring 0:25:35.880 --> 0:25:42.640 in a bunch of actual live kids. They record trivia, not. 0:25:43.520 --> 0:25:45.440 Tell us heavily. 0:25:46.040 --> 0:25:50.080 Heavily staff familiar and some neighbors, straight neighborhood kids we've 0:25:50.080 --> 0:25:53.399 brought in. We brought in my primary care providers kids. 0:25:53.440 --> 0:25:57.359 Didn't we just bringing some stray kids. They played trivia, 0:25:57.359 --> 0:26:01.159 but they play trivia this way, you know, keeping hollering 0:26:01.400 --> 0:26:03.960 kids these days, there's no winners and losers. They're all winners. 0:26:04.280 --> 0:26:06.160 So what the kids do is they build a pot 0:26:06.200 --> 0:26:09.359 of money for conservation. Meaning it's our normal, it's a 0:26:09.359 --> 0:26:12.080 trivia show for kids. But every time any of the 0:26:12.160 --> 0:26:16.440 kids gets to like every right answer generates more revenue 0:26:16.560 --> 0:26:19.720 into the pot, which goes to a conservation organization that 0:26:19.840 --> 0:26:23.320 that's a kid's focused conservation group where kids focus charity 0:26:23.800 --> 0:26:26.199 and so they they're building the pot. Meaning when you 0:26:26.240 --> 0:26:28.199 ask all ten them a question, it's not that some 0:26:28.280 --> 0:26:32.280 of them win and lose. It's that the right answers 0:26:32.400 --> 0:26:35.120 build a pot of money. So their cooperative effort. 0:26:34.840 --> 0:26:37.760 There are weak links in the chain that I'm sure. 0:26:40.040 --> 0:26:46.920 Well in terms of the nature versus nurture host Spencer 0:26:47.600 --> 0:26:56.000 Newharth definitely has found some personality similarities between uh are 0:26:56.000 --> 0:26:58.880 our colleagues and their children, and he chooses to point 0:26:58.880 --> 0:27:01.800 them out each time, like like these. 0:27:01.760 --> 0:27:03.600 Kids just quietly have the right answer. 0:27:04.560 --> 0:27:09.440 Yeah, I mean he definitely. He definitely picked on Mabel, 0:27:09.720 --> 0:27:13.240 one of Yanni's daughters, for having a similar trait of 0:27:14.640 --> 0:27:15.800 seeing if anyone, but that was. 0:27:15.800 --> 0:27:19.000 Only because Mabel called him out, and I think that 0:27:19.080 --> 0:27:20.080 he was embarrassed by. 0:27:22.080 --> 0:27:26.680 The video component is there's a tube that shoots out 0:27:26.680 --> 0:27:30.520 a marshmallow to the person with the right answer, And 0:27:30.560 --> 0:27:32.679 that's where it really cranks up visually. 0:27:35.480 --> 0:27:38.640 You don't feel like you know us well already from 0:27:38.680 --> 0:27:41.360 listening to us for hours every week. Now you'll you'll 0:27:41.359 --> 0:27:44.000 get like a another layer of who we are because 0:27:44.000 --> 0:27:46.560 you're going to get to like study who are kids are? 0:27:46.600 --> 0:27:49.240 And those of us without children will remain mysterious. 0:27:49.280 --> 0:27:54.760 That's right, which was the point the whole time. 0:27:55.119 --> 0:27:59.679 June twenty seventh, tune in on YouTube for our latest experiment. 0:28:00.840 --> 0:28:02.360 Not latest, We don't do that many. Yeah, I guess 0:28:02.359 --> 0:28:05.280 we've done a few experiments. Yesterda two days ago we 0:28:05.280 --> 0:28:08.640 went out and made bullboats. So we went and got 0:28:09.520 --> 0:28:12.280 a bull boat, as you know, or maybe you don't, 0:28:13.520 --> 0:28:17.480 is a temporary use water craft that can be made 0:28:17.680 --> 0:28:20.960 using nothing but the hide off of a buffalo. It's 0:28:21.000 --> 0:28:22.840 called a bullboat because you need a pretty good sized 0:28:22.920 --> 0:28:27.399 critter to make it. We used a couple thousand pound 0:28:28.000 --> 0:28:30.760 roughly thousand pound bulls, I mean a three year old 0:28:31.119 --> 0:28:37.120 three year olds. We have a friend at North Bridger Bison, 0:28:38.080 --> 0:28:41.520 Matt Skogland, North Bridger Bison, who does he does all? 0:28:43.160 --> 0:28:47.200 He has a bison ranch. He's explaining me before His 0:28:47.600 --> 0:28:49.680 animals are born on his ranch and they die on 0:28:49.720 --> 0:28:54.200 his ranch, all grass fed, field harvested. And what you 0:28:54.280 --> 0:28:56.440 do is when you want to buy from him, you 0:28:56.440 --> 0:28:59.840 buy the animal, right, it's custom slaughter. You buy the animal, 0:29:00.080 --> 0:29:01.720 buying the meat on the animal. You don't go on 0:29:01.760 --> 0:29:03.840 a website and buy a cut of this, a cut 0:29:03.880 --> 0:29:06.280 of that. You go in and buy a portion of 0:29:06.440 --> 0:29:09.360 percentage of an animal that's currently living on his ranch. 0:29:09.720 --> 0:29:14.320 He field harvests the animal. It's custom cut to your specifications. Anyhow, 0:29:15.440 --> 0:29:18.000 we got hides from him and made boats, and we 0:29:18.040 --> 0:29:20.520 made boats using nothing but native materials. So we went 0:29:20.520 --> 0:29:26.880 into a willow patch and used willow bark, which I 0:29:26.880 --> 0:29:30.800 didn't love, used willow bark, braided buffalo hair, which I 0:29:30.840 --> 0:29:36.520 didn't love, and cuts of raw hide thong not thongs 0:29:37.760 --> 0:29:41.400 of strips of strips of yeah, strips of raw hide 0:29:41.400 --> 0:29:50.400 for rope. So willows, willow bark, buffalo hair, buffalo strips 0:29:50.400 --> 0:29:55.160 of buffalo hide as rope and crafted bull boats. 0:29:55.840 --> 0:29:58.160 I think it's important to point out too, and raised 0:29:58.200 --> 0:30:03.760 them are raw hide in this context means it is 0:30:03.800 --> 0:30:07.320 a fresh hide, not like your raw hide dog juice. 0:30:07.720 --> 0:30:10.520 It's the same thing, it's just at a different stage. 0:30:10.120 --> 0:30:17.720 Of This was fresh, green, slicker and snot wet, hard 0:30:17.720 --> 0:30:18.600 to work with hide. 0:30:19.200 --> 0:30:22.720 I was actually very impressed with the bark because when 0:30:22.960 --> 0:30:27.040 if the stuff that dried, when it was tied and wrapped, it. 0:30:28.560 --> 0:30:31.320 Tough. It was real tough, braided hair is a bitch. 0:30:32.960 --> 0:30:34.800 If you got like a dog with long hair, try 0:30:34.800 --> 0:30:37.240 to tie her hair in a knot like try to 0:30:37.240 --> 0:30:40.400 throw a granny into your daughter's hair. He kars hair. 0:30:41.440 --> 0:30:45.520 It doesn't doesn't, it doesn't hold it out. So I 0:30:45.560 --> 0:30:47.440 braided all I took all my time braiding all this 0:30:47.520 --> 0:30:49.320 hair up, giving myself an arth You want to talk 0:30:49.360 --> 0:30:53.360 about an arthritick egg braiden big along strands of hair 0:30:53.400 --> 0:30:55.120 together and then you go throw a granny in It 0:30:55.400 --> 0:30:58.920 just unravels in front of your eyes. But but there's 0:30:58.920 --> 0:31:00.720 a thing I read. But if you the picture, you 0:31:00.760 --> 0:31:02.800 take a picture, you take a deer hide, just a 0:31:02.840 --> 0:31:05.280 few listeners out there, take a deer hide and start 0:31:06.200 --> 0:31:08.360 so lay the deer hide out. Ideally you'd scrape the 0:31:08.360 --> 0:31:10.720 hair off, lay the deer hide out, and start a 0:31:10.840 --> 0:31:13.520 cut in and start cutting a quarter inch thick strap 0:31:15.360 --> 0:31:18.680 parallel to the edge. And imagine you go in concentric circles, 0:31:19.640 --> 0:31:26.240 take one hundred go around, keep going quarter inch all 0:31:26.320 --> 0:31:29.920 the whole periphery, and then come in and do concentric circles. 0:31:30.040 --> 0:31:32.239 You gonna you could stretch that. I'm gonna go out 0:31:32.240 --> 0:31:33.560 on a limb and say it go to the moon. 0:31:35.720 --> 0:31:38.000 Remember We had a guy right in and said that 0:31:38.360 --> 0:31:42.160 he used to do that with squirrel leather. And he 0:31:42.280 --> 0:31:44.600 said that you use that for shoe laces and it 0:31:44.640 --> 0:31:45.840 would outlast the boots. 0:31:46.600 --> 0:31:48.520 No way. 0:31:48.720 --> 0:31:51.880 He did take a squirrel hide and make leather laces 0:31:51.920 --> 0:31:54.080 out of squirrel hide. And I'll tell you what, anybody's 0:31:54.120 --> 0:31:57.000 ever try to clean a squirrel will. 0:31:57.640 --> 0:31:58.920 In that's right up your eye. 0:32:00.480 --> 0:32:03.160 Leave the hair on there al or shoes. 0:32:03.280 --> 0:32:05.440 Made me a couple of thin pieces for dental floss. 0:32:05.440 --> 0:32:08.360 Bro because what I've been using lately is not work 0:32:08.520 --> 0:32:09.600 that popcorn yesterday? 0:32:09.640 --> 0:32:11.560 Would you leave the hair on for the dental floss 0:32:11.560 --> 0:32:13.480 to get a little It's. 0:32:13.400 --> 0:32:15.480 A brush, brush and floss at the same time. 0:32:15.600 --> 0:32:17.880 And we raised them. We raised them. It wasn't like 0:32:18.440 --> 0:32:19.160 we raised them. 0:32:19.960 --> 0:32:24.760 I Uh, people got to watch. 0:32:25.000 --> 0:32:25.640 You gotta watch. 0:32:26.160 --> 0:32:29.120 But this comes out after the don't get it all 0:32:29.160 --> 0:32:31.680 the way. Yeah, this comes after the deal. But people 0:32:31.680 --> 0:32:34.520 still need to need to watch. But it was it 0:32:34.600 --> 0:32:37.800 was a group learning effort with a race at the end. 0:32:38.320 --> 0:32:40.360 How's that highlight of my day? Is? All day I 0:32:40.440 --> 0:32:42.480 kept think we're gonna find morels because where we were 0:32:42.680 --> 0:32:45.600 I walked around a lot looking, well, here's what happened 0:32:45.600 --> 0:32:47.560 to me on the way out. On the way I'm 0:32:47.560 --> 0:32:49.480 sitting in the back of a truck. I look over 0:32:49.640 --> 0:32:54.960 just plain as day is a morele it grew wild. No, 0:32:54.960 --> 0:32:58.040 we hadn't gone in that driven by. Yeah, Chili thought 0:32:58.080 --> 0:33:03.520 someone fell out and got hit. Stop stop, he jumps out. 0:33:03.600 --> 0:33:05.640 He thought someone got rolled over. Like there's a morale. 0:33:06.200 --> 0:33:07.640 He's like, oh my god, you guys give me a 0:33:07.680 --> 0:33:12.720 heart attack. We'll talk about breeding meal deer later. Oh, 0:33:13.440 --> 0:33:15.800 we use one thousand pound animals. And then in the 0:33:15.920 --> 0:33:18.760 historic record people talk about a bull boat that's eight 0:33:19.040 --> 0:33:23.640 feet in diameter. But Matt Skoglan was talking about, you know, 0:33:23.720 --> 0:33:27.280 if you really let him go. We were using hides 0:33:27.280 --> 0:33:31.239 off three year old animals. You know, if you let 0:33:31.320 --> 0:33:33.240 them go, you could get a you know, there's such 0:33:33.280 --> 0:33:36.640 a thing as a close to a one ton bowl. 0:33:37.000 --> 0:33:37.200 Yeah. 0:33:37.200 --> 0:33:41.360 If you look at like old beef balls, old beef 0:33:41.360 --> 0:33:45.040 balls get to a point that they can't really be managers. 0:33:45.040 --> 0:33:48.120 They can't. They get so big and dangerous that they 0:33:48.200 --> 0:33:49.600 kind of just do what they want. So if you 0:33:49.640 --> 0:33:54.040 see an old beef bawl out there on the range, 0:33:54.560 --> 0:33:59.040 they just they do They just get bigger and bigger, sorry. 0:33:58.840 --> 0:33:59.880 Magic are around. 0:34:00.680 --> 0:34:05.240 Yeah, the muscle bulk and everything is next get enormous 0:34:05.320 --> 0:34:06.200 and yeah. 0:34:06.960 --> 0:34:09.520 Uh. The last thing I'll point out is my boat, 0:34:09.800 --> 0:34:15.520 my personal vessel was Uh no, in fact, it's no, 0:34:16.800 --> 0:34:19.680 it's got all it's I meant to grab some of 0:34:19.680 --> 0:34:22.719 that hide for a thing I want to make, and 0:34:22.800 --> 0:34:27.000 I had some, Matt and uh, Matt and uh Brady 0:34:27.040 --> 0:34:29.239 go back out and they cut a chunk of hide 0:34:29.320 --> 0:34:31.279 off the boat. So as you find laying on the bank, 0:34:31.320 --> 0:34:33.880 it's got a hole in it now, But no, I'm 0:34:33.920 --> 0:34:35.760 still sitting there right. It's just sitting in a willow 0:34:35.800 --> 0:34:38.399 patch right now, like it would be back in the day. 0:34:38.440 --> 0:34:41.840 Apparently with a hole in it. Oh, it was so 0:34:41.960 --> 0:34:43.560 stable you could cast a fly route out of it 0:34:43.600 --> 0:34:51.600 floating down the river. Worked very well. All right, Matt, Uh, 0:34:51.719 --> 0:34:54.239 let's let's dig into Colossal biosciences. Talk about how you 0:34:54.239 --> 0:34:57.000 got started in Zoo. You were you manage Zoo's. 0:34:57.760 --> 0:35:00.000 Yeah, so I before walk us through the career real quick, 0:35:00.040 --> 0:35:04.960 before Colossal started, I was. I had studied biology and chemistry, ecology. 0:35:04.960 --> 0:35:06.920 I went I went to a master's program in South 0:35:06.920 --> 0:35:11.040 Carolina studying wetland ecology, and when I finished up there, 0:35:11.080 --> 0:35:14.279 I sort of realized what about wetland ecology so specifically, 0:35:14.320 --> 0:35:16.160 so it was sort of marine and wetland ecology. 0:35:16.160 --> 0:35:17.200 I was more on the marine side. 0:35:17.200 --> 0:35:20.360 So I was studying sea turtle nesting in South Carolina 0:35:20.400 --> 0:35:25.400 in Atistowe Beach of sea turtle those are loggerheads. Yeah, 0:35:25.440 --> 0:35:27.759 and uh it was great. You know, as a twenty 0:35:27.800 --> 0:35:30.080 two year old grad student. I was living on a 0:35:30.080 --> 0:35:31.920 beach for a week or two in a tent with 0:35:31.960 --> 0:35:34.760 my one hundred and forty pound Saint Bernard, and uh, 0:35:35.080 --> 0:35:37.520 you know, just trying to walk the beach every morning 0:35:37.560 --> 0:35:39.800 and see where sea turtles were crawling, mark their nests, 0:35:39.800 --> 0:35:42.640 and study basically thermal dynamics. 0:35:42.840 --> 0:35:44.920 Well, you painted a very sandy tent picture. 0:35:45.000 --> 0:35:49.879 Ye came humid, slobbery, and then there was a dog, 0:35:49.960 --> 0:35:50.160 you know. 0:35:52.560 --> 0:35:53.680 But it was great. I loved it. 0:35:53.719 --> 0:35:55.960 But I realized quickly that most of the people in 0:35:56.239 --> 0:35:58.560 my sort of path, we're going to work for DNR 0:35:58.719 --> 0:36:01.279 fishing game or something like that. And as you know, 0:36:01.320 --> 0:36:02.879 when I was a kid, that was appealing. But by 0:36:02.880 --> 0:36:04.640 that point I thought, well, you know, I want to 0:36:04.640 --> 0:36:07.800 do something a little bit more that I own, that 0:36:07.160 --> 0:36:10.800 I that I can manage and literally took a runner 0:36:10.880 --> 0:36:14.040 on a Craigslist ad and move up and moved to Miami, 0:36:14.040 --> 0:36:19.319 Florida and started working with bottlenosed dolphins and California sea 0:36:19.320 --> 0:36:22.759 lions and working and studying animal behavior. And so I 0:36:22.800 --> 0:36:25.800 started doing that, and that eventually led to a job 0:36:25.920 --> 0:36:28.960 working with elephants in Tampa, Florida, trying to help change 0:36:29.000 --> 0:36:31.239 the way that we manage elephants in human care. Right 0:36:31.320 --> 0:36:34.360 because we look at the wild, we understand that a 0:36:34.360 --> 0:36:37.320 lot of these species are facing some level of extinction, 0:36:37.600 --> 0:36:39.759 and elephants have had a massive decline over the last 0:36:39.840 --> 0:36:42.920 hundred years. So one of the solutions to prevent extinction 0:36:43.040 --> 0:36:45.880 is to create captive breeding populations. And so if you're 0:36:45.880 --> 0:36:48.280 going to create a captive breeding population, you need to 0:36:48.320 --> 0:36:50.200 figure out how do you manage these animals, how do 0:36:50.200 --> 0:36:51.759 you take care of them? And so I sort of 0:36:51.760 --> 0:36:55.440 had a job doing that at a zoo and we 0:36:55.440 --> 0:36:57.759 were focused on that for years, and I just sort 0:36:57.760 --> 0:36:59.560 of worked my way up through the zoo system and 0:37:00.120 --> 0:37:02.360 managing animal care and conservation at Ze's in Miami and 0:37:02.400 --> 0:37:05.759 then most recently in Dallas, Texas. And about that time 0:37:05.840 --> 0:37:08.719 has when that's you know, I started there in twenty 0:37:08.760 --> 0:37:10.960 eighteen in Dallas, and by twenty twenty, COVID hit and 0:37:11.360 --> 0:37:14.960 sort of made you really sort of start to question everything. 0:37:15.000 --> 0:37:16.759 You know, you're locked at your house, You're you're wondering 0:37:16.800 --> 0:37:19.000 what's happening, You're trying to really had a lot of 0:37:19.040 --> 0:37:22.120 self reflection in twenty twenty, and for me, I realize, 0:37:22.760 --> 0:37:24.640 you know, it's one thing to sort of put your 0:37:24.640 --> 0:37:27.160 finger in the in the dam and try to prevent 0:37:27.200 --> 0:37:30.239 a leak of a species extinction. It's another thing to 0:37:30.280 --> 0:37:32.799 try to refill that well. And so I was really 0:37:32.840 --> 0:37:36.080 looking for ways that I could personally be more impactful 0:37:36.800 --> 0:37:39.479 to the biodiversity crisis. And about that time, my phone 0:37:39.560 --> 0:37:42.560 rang and this lunatic Ben Lamb, who's our ce, who's 0:37:42.600 --> 0:37:46.640 absolute genius, you know, serial entrepreneur, tons of success. He 0:37:47.000 --> 0:37:51.120 met a He met an amazing guy named George Church 0:37:51.160 --> 0:37:54.600 who worked at Harvard Medical School as and he runs 0:37:54.600 --> 0:37:58.520 the genetics lab there, really famous for creating, you know, 0:37:58.560 --> 0:38:01.800 next generation genomic sequence technologies. An he's sort of a 0:38:01.880 --> 0:38:05.600 legend in the genetics world, and they they've had this 0:38:05.680 --> 0:38:08.560 George has had this idea around restoring Willie mammoths to 0:38:08.600 --> 0:38:12.160 the Arctic for years and ben Is, being the business 0:38:12.160 --> 0:38:14.280 minded one, was sort of able to formulate a business 0:38:14.320 --> 0:38:14.960 plan around that. 0:38:15.000 --> 0:38:16.760 And twenty twenty one. 0:38:16.680 --> 0:38:19.640 Colossal Bioscience is launched and they called me to come 0:38:19.640 --> 0:38:21.960 on and help with animal care, animal management, welfare, and 0:38:22.040 --> 0:38:25.840 wildlife conservation. It was the pitch, like the mammoth project, 0:38:25.960 --> 0:38:27.719 that was it at that point. That's all we had, 0:38:27.880 --> 0:38:30.200 just make a mammoth. Yeah, we need If we were 0:38:30.239 --> 0:38:31.879 to make a mammoth, how do you do that? Well, 0:38:31.920 --> 0:38:35.080 there's a lot of work that requires, you know, before 0:38:35.160 --> 0:38:38.359 the mammoth is restored, and then tons of work after 0:38:38.400 --> 0:38:39.080 the mammoths restored. 0:38:39.120 --> 0:38:40.000 How do you take care of them? 0:38:40.120 --> 0:38:43.239 How do you eventually create sustainable populations that could go 0:38:43.280 --> 0:38:48.360 back into the Arctic somewhere, And all of those require 0:38:48.400 --> 0:38:51.759 different skills in animal management with care and welfare, but 0:38:51.800 --> 0:38:54.080 also you know, conservation planning. How do you go and 0:38:54.120 --> 0:38:56.560 prepare an ecosystem for species that hasn't existed in four 0:38:56.600 --> 0:38:58.520 thousand years? How do you go and figure out how 0:38:58.520 --> 0:39:02.440 to do this ethically legally, right, you know, hand in 0:39:02.440 --> 0:39:04.920 hand with regulators, things like that. So it's been my 0:39:05.000 --> 0:39:06.560 last two and a half years it's just really been 0:39:06.560 --> 0:39:09.040 off to the races. And meanwhile to that, we've quickly 0:39:09.040 --> 0:39:12.680 expanded from Willie mammos to also Tasmani tigers who went 0:39:12.760 --> 0:39:16.000 extinct off the island at Tasmania in nineteen thirty six, 0:39:16.280 --> 0:39:17.960 and the Dodo, which is sort of, you know, the 0:39:17.960 --> 0:39:21.279 world's most iconic extinction event in sixteen hundreds. The Dodo 0:39:22.680 --> 0:39:25.120 was discovered in eighty years later was extinct due to 0:39:25.239 --> 0:39:29.800 Dutch sailors that were introducing predators and invasive species into Mauritius. 0:39:30.640 --> 0:39:33.920 So all of those have different levels of challenges on 0:39:33.960 --> 0:39:36.640 the the extinction side, and then I have a lot 0:39:36.640 --> 0:39:39.359 of challenges on the conservation side for how do we 0:39:39.600 --> 0:39:43.360 prepare habitats and do a lot of that that prep work. 0:39:43.200 --> 0:39:46.040 Ahead, but also on the why side, Right, Yeah, it's 0:39:46.040 --> 0:39:47.799 like that's a big one. You're not just doing it 0:39:48.040 --> 0:39:48.600 because you can. 0:39:48.760 --> 0:39:52.120 It's not enough school now the right we're facing this 0:39:52.480 --> 0:39:55.560 enormous biodiversity crisis and we're missing species. I think the 0:39:55.640 --> 0:39:59.360 Tasmani tigers such a great example of this. And sitting 0:39:59.360 --> 0:40:02.400 here in Montana, you know, on the doorstuff Yellowstone, you 0:40:02.400 --> 0:40:05.240 could sort of draw some parallels to to wolf recovery 0:40:05.239 --> 0:40:08.279 and Yellowstone. The loss of an apex predator led to 0:40:08.520 --> 0:40:11.840 you know, certain imbalances in Tasmania, things like wildlife disease 0:40:11.880 --> 0:40:15.359 are running rampant today, things like like predator or sorry 0:40:15.360 --> 0:40:19.279 prey population overpopulation is happening, and you know there's you know, 0:40:19.600 --> 0:40:25.239 wallabies and brush tail possums in Tasmania aren't really fun 0:40:25.280 --> 0:40:29.799 to hunt, so nobody's really regulating those populations, and so 0:40:29.880 --> 0:40:32.120 they need this predator that can come in and provide 0:40:32.200 --> 0:40:36.320 ecosystem stability. It can help remove sick and injured animals 0:40:36.320 --> 0:40:36.880 that might. 0:40:36.680 --> 0:40:37.960 Be spreading wildlife disease. 0:40:38.040 --> 0:40:41.000 Like if you've ever heard of Tasmani devils are on 0:40:41.040 --> 0:40:44.160 the brink of extinction because of this facial tumor disease. 0:40:44.520 --> 0:40:47.960 It's literally a contagious cancer. So when they bite each other, 0:40:47.960 --> 0:40:50.839 which is very much in their social network is how 0:40:50.840 --> 0:40:56.120 they communicate, they spread this contagious cancer that ends up 0:40:56.440 --> 0:40:58.640 creating these massive tumors in their face and they eventually 0:40:58.680 --> 0:41:02.520 starve to death and die. That would have with the 0:41:02.600 --> 0:41:05.520 right predator present, would as that animal got sick, it 0:41:05.520 --> 0:41:07.360 would have been predated and would not have had the 0:41:07.480 --> 0:41:10.480 chance to pass on that disease. And so you know, 0:41:10.560 --> 0:41:13.560 finding solutions nature based solutions for how we can restore 0:41:13.640 --> 0:41:16.640 ecosystems is really the focus of what the company's doing, 0:41:16.920 --> 0:41:18.640 and we're doing it in a really fun, flashy way 0:41:18.640 --> 0:41:21.160 like Willie Mammoths, Like what we came out of the 0:41:21.560 --> 0:41:23.640 gate so hot and got a lot of attention, is 0:41:23.680 --> 0:41:26.760 really fun. But I think now you know, I'm running 0:41:26.760 --> 0:41:29.160 around trying to help spread the word on really here's 0:41:29.200 --> 0:41:32.600 the why, because sometimes the what is so distracting that 0:41:32.600 --> 0:41:34.480 that we don't get to the why and and and 0:41:34.560 --> 0:41:36.920 that's that's been a great part of the last two 0:41:36.920 --> 0:41:37.520 and a half years. 0:41:37.600 --> 0:41:39.160 So I feel like in the case of the mammoth, 0:41:39.239 --> 0:41:43.040 the why is an after effect, like the why is 0:41:43.080 --> 0:41:46.279 searching for a why after the inception of the idea. Well, 0:41:46.320 --> 0:41:48.000 there's I don't think that, Like, I don't think it's 0:41:48.080 --> 0:41:52.800 fair to say that. I mean, let's be frank. I 0:41:52.880 --> 0:41:55.719 mean the race to do a mammoth is because it 0:41:55.840 --> 0:41:57.160 be super cool to make a mammoth. 0:41:58.000 --> 0:41:59.960 I think it's sort of yeah, there's sort of two 0:42:00.120 --> 0:42:02.040 fronts to that, or you know, the first one is 0:42:02.080 --> 0:42:05.440 that moonshot idea of this really amazing attractive project that's 0:42:05.440 --> 0:42:07.759 brought tons of investment right in three years we've raised 0:42:07.760 --> 0:42:10.759 two hundred twenty five million dollars for conservation technology in 0:42:10.800 --> 0:42:11.719 my fifteen years. 0:42:11.719 --> 0:42:14.320 Prior we probably raised five million dollars. 0:42:14.320 --> 0:42:17.120 You know, So the scale has been really helpful because 0:42:17.120 --> 0:42:20.320 of the moonshot aspect, and then also along the way 0:42:20.520 --> 0:42:24.279 of this amazing project, we're developing technologies and innovations that 0:42:24.360 --> 0:42:28.239 are applicable every single day to currently imperiled species, and 0:42:28.280 --> 0:42:31.200 so it really becomes this engine of innovation and investment 0:42:31.239 --> 0:42:34.400 for in danger speceis conservation. The other side is there 0:42:34.520 --> 0:42:38.400 is really strong evidence that shows that restoring megavertebrates to 0:42:38.520 --> 0:42:41.840 some of these areas in the Arctic, like what's happening 0:42:42.360 --> 0:42:46.000 in Siberia at Plesising Park, is using mega vertebrates to 0:42:46.080 --> 0:42:49.560 try to re engineer an ecosystem and an ecosystem that's 0:42:49.600 --> 0:42:53.080 better at insulating permafrost. And so that's sort of the 0:42:53.080 --> 0:42:55.799 big idea. The scale in which to make, you know, 0:42:56.480 --> 0:42:58.359 for that to happen in the Arctic and be this 0:42:58.520 --> 0:43:01.520 massive global solution to climb change would be you know, 0:43:01.680 --> 0:43:04.840 really untenable. But but I think that's the idea is 0:43:04.880 --> 0:43:07.680 that we can find you know, targeted areas where we 0:43:07.719 --> 0:43:09.080 can help impact those things. 0:43:09.800 --> 0:43:13.279 Uh, you laid out how you'd make a mingus. Yeah, 0:43:14.000 --> 0:43:16.760 completely different path on a mammoth. 0:43:17.080 --> 0:43:20.920 Cloning as compared to the extinction is easy, right, And 0:43:20.960 --> 0:43:22.520 I think that's why a lot of people came out 0:43:22.560 --> 0:43:24.000 of the gates with the mammoth. Idea was always that 0:43:24.040 --> 0:43:26.239 we should clone it. And you know, same same, same 0:43:26.239 --> 0:43:27.480 idea with the mangus example. 0:43:27.520 --> 0:43:31.160 But because we have mammoth flesh and DNA. 0:43:30.920 --> 0:43:33.880 And exactly, but we don't have living flesh and DNA, 0:43:33.960 --> 0:43:35.799 and you can't clone a dead cell. 0:43:36.480 --> 0:43:38.600 You just can't. That's the unfortunate reality. 0:43:38.760 --> 0:43:41.400 But what we can do is we can use genetic 0:43:41.520 --> 0:43:46.200 editing and engineering tools to basically replicate. So the process 0:43:46.239 --> 0:43:50.239 for the extinction sort of starts with palaeogenomics. So what 0:43:50.360 --> 0:43:52.920 best Shapiro probably talked about on her when she when 0:43:52.960 --> 0:43:53.919 she appeared years ago. 0:43:54.160 --> 0:43:59.360 I got to interrupt you from it because as you 0:43:59.400 --> 0:44:02.200 do this, keep this in mind. We're talking about what's that, 0:44:02.280 --> 0:44:04.960 what's that marine mammal, the very small sea of Cortes, 0:44:05.040 --> 0:44:09.440 the wikida. Yeah, okay, it's headed to extinction, correct, But 0:44:09.680 --> 0:44:13.360 you guys are devising a plan by which you'll capture 0:44:13.920 --> 0:44:19.920 living tissue of things you could capture living tissue of things, 0:44:21.040 --> 0:44:24.400 and down the road de extinction would be entirely different 0:44:24.440 --> 0:44:28.279 because you'd have captured living tissue in the biobank. Yeah, 0:44:28.440 --> 0:44:32.800 so let's yeah, so let's and talking about de extinction. 0:44:32.880 --> 0:44:35.799 There's cases where you could take a different path to 0:44:35.920 --> 0:44:39.320 de extinction if you had the foresight to capture living 0:44:39.360 --> 0:44:45.440 tissue of white rhinos whatever, right, it'd be different. So 0:44:45.560 --> 0:44:48.840 we're talking right now about soft where there's no without 0:44:48.840 --> 0:44:53.040 a time machine, there's no way to capture living tissue. 0:44:52.760 --> 0:44:55.680 Exactly with living tissue in biobank. So one of our 0:44:55.719 --> 0:44:59.080 biggest focuses right now is to improve biobanking throughout the world. 0:44:59.120 --> 0:45:00.320 So that means we want to go go out and 0:45:00.360 --> 0:45:04.200 collect living tissues of critically endangered species. We want to 0:45:04.239 --> 0:45:06.879 create cell lines of those in freezoes down and that 0:45:07.120 --> 0:45:11.240 is sort of the assurance insurance POPU policy against extinction 0:45:11.320 --> 0:45:12.800 in the future, because that gives us an ability to 0:45:12.840 --> 0:45:14.960 go back and do cloning, which is much easier than 0:45:15.000 --> 0:45:18.279 this the extinction pathway. So a great example of just 0:45:18.400 --> 0:45:20.880 that is what's happening with northern white rhinos. I'm not 0:45:20.880 --> 0:45:24.239 sure if you're familiar, but northern white rhinos are, you know, 0:45:24.320 --> 0:45:29.680 native to East Africa sort of Uganda car DRC area. 0:45:30.000 --> 0:45:33.120 And you know, back in nineteen hundred they're about two 0:45:33.120 --> 0:45:35.120 thousand and three thousand of them in the world. By 0:45:35.160 --> 0:45:37.839 the sixties at number was pretty stable, and by nineteen 0:45:37.880 --> 0:45:40.200 seventy five they were only five hundred of them. In 0:45:40.320 --> 0:45:42.279 two thousand and eight, the last ones went extinct in 0:45:42.280 --> 0:45:47.360 Groamba National Park, but luckily there were a few left 0:45:47.400 --> 0:45:50.440 in human care. So there's this amazing zoo in the 0:45:50.440 --> 0:45:54.520 Czech Republic that had had four animals. They sent them 0:45:54.520 --> 0:45:56.719 to Kenya in this last ditch attempt to try to 0:45:56.719 --> 0:46:00.200 breed the last remaining Northern white rhinos, and unfortunately it 0:46:00.200 --> 0:46:02.799 turns out, whether because there was the genetics of those 0:46:02.800 --> 0:46:05.200 animals were bad or they were too far down the path, 0:46:05.880 --> 0:46:08.160 they weren't able to breed. So now there is this 0:46:08.200 --> 0:46:12.440 effort using all those biobanked Northern white rhino tissues to 0:46:12.480 --> 0:46:15.399 create embryos and then use Southern white surrogates to make 0:46:15.480 --> 0:46:18.919 more Northern white rhinosp And actually just this last month 0:46:19.000 --> 0:46:22.839 we announced so we're part of this international consortium called 0:46:22.840 --> 0:46:26.200 Biorescue that's leading this charge. Last month we announced the 0:46:26.280 --> 0:46:29.360 first ever successful in vitro fertilization of a rhino species. 0:46:29.400 --> 0:46:31.360 So this was a Southern white embryo into a Southern 0:46:31.360 --> 0:46:34.000 white female. But that was the sort of proof point 0:46:34.040 --> 0:46:35.640 we needed to say, Okay, now we can use the 0:46:35.640 --> 0:46:38.000 really valuable tissues. So the next step is we're going 0:46:38.040 --> 0:46:40.360 to put Northern white embryos into Southern white females and 0:46:40.440 --> 0:46:42.920 make more Northern white phinos. So that's sort of the conservation. 0:46:43.600 --> 0:46:54.960 That's the Mingus model, that's the Megus model. Now let's 0:46:54.960 --> 0:46:57.000 talk about the model of shit that died ten thousand 0:46:57.080 --> 0:46:57.480 years ago. 0:46:57.560 --> 0:47:01.160 Well, even unfortunately things like nineteen thirty six when extinct, right, 0:47:01.280 --> 0:47:03.360 we don't have living tissues of that. There were no 0:47:03.400 --> 0:47:05.960 biobanks back there. So what we do there is we 0:47:06.000 --> 0:47:08.080 go and find the extinct species, whether it's a mammoth 0:47:08.160 --> 0:47:12.360 or a thiglyasine or dodo, and we use high quality 0:47:12.400 --> 0:47:14.799 the highest quality reference genome thi scene is a tas 0:47:14.840 --> 0:47:18.719 Madie entire tesmany tiger, yes, sorry. And what we do 0:47:18.840 --> 0:47:22.040 is we sequence the genome of this lost species and 0:47:22.080 --> 0:47:25.239 then we use, you know, some comparative analysis to under 0:47:25.680 --> 0:47:29.279 try to determine who's the current closest living. 0:47:29.040 --> 0:47:30.280 Relative to that species. 0:47:30.320 --> 0:47:32.680 So in the case of the Tasmanian tiger, that's this 0:47:32.719 --> 0:47:35.480 little mouse art mouse sized marstupile called the fat tail 0:47:35.520 --> 0:47:37.360 dinnert or in the case of a mammoth, that's an 0:47:37.400 --> 0:47:38.399 Asian elephant or the. 0:47:38.360 --> 0:47:42.320 Dodo with the nick of our pigeon. Really yeah, yeah. 0:47:42.440 --> 0:47:44.279 So what we can do then is we take that 0:47:44.320 --> 0:47:48.919 genome of the living animal. We design editing targets as 0:47:49.680 --> 0:47:51.920 using the genomic analysis tool, so you sort of lay 0:47:51.920 --> 0:47:53.880 them over each other, see where is one genome different 0:47:53.920 --> 0:47:56.200 than the other, and we create editing tools to begin 0:47:56.280 --> 0:48:00.760 to edit the living species into the loss speed different. 0:48:00.920 --> 0:48:03.360 I don't know how you express it. What percent different 0:48:05.000 --> 0:48:09.240 is a wooly mammoth from an Indian elephant? 0:48:09.880 --> 0:48:13.160 This is this is a really common question, is really 0:48:13.320 --> 0:48:16.360 challenging to answer because you and I are both human 0:48:16.719 --> 0:48:19.759 and our genomic difference is somewhere around ninety nine point 0:48:19.840 --> 0:48:25.120 eight percent, right or similar similarity. We are about ninety 0:48:25.160 --> 0:48:28.520 nine point six percent related to a chimpanzee an Asian elephant. 0:48:28.520 --> 0:48:30.800 I heard someone say we're about seventy seven percent related 0:48:30.840 --> 0:48:31.400 to a carrot. 0:48:31.719 --> 0:48:34.520 Yeah, exactly, Because there's a lot of stuff in there. 0:48:34.800 --> 0:48:37.080 We have a lot a lot of Neanderthal in our 0:48:37.120 --> 0:48:40.360 genome as well, right, because we all have these common 0:48:40.640 --> 0:48:43.520 genes that might be responsible for the basis of life. 0:48:43.880 --> 0:48:46.399 But a wooly mammoth to an Asian elephant is ninety 0:48:46.480 --> 0:48:48.640 nine point six percent similar. So there's only a point 0:48:48.680 --> 0:48:50.239 four percent difference between the two. 0:48:50.880 --> 0:48:53.200 Okay, what about the what about the thile a scene 0:48:53.200 --> 0:48:54.080 to the mouse. 0:48:54.480 --> 0:48:57.080 To that that one is mouse, but to the yeah, 0:48:57.080 --> 0:48:59.400 to the fat tail dinner, that one, I can't recall 0:48:59.400 --> 0:49:01.800 the exact person, but it is much more distantly related. 0:49:01.800 --> 0:49:03.120 So it's not in the ninety nine. 0:49:03.200 --> 0:49:05.520 It's not in the ninety nine now, So when we 0:49:05.560 --> 0:49:09.080 talk about editing for for willy mammoths, we're really looking at, 0:49:09.400 --> 0:49:12.640 you know, several hundred edits, which really, in the grand 0:49:12.640 --> 0:49:14.400 scheme of things, is not massive. 0:49:14.520 --> 0:49:19.320 And then okay, let's take this Indian elephant in the mammoth. 0:49:20.600 --> 0:49:23.400 If you just took a someone who's somewhat well informed 0:49:23.440 --> 0:49:26.600 about animals and laid the two of them out, they're 0:49:26.640 --> 0:49:28.719 a look and they're going to point to probably the 0:49:28.719 --> 0:49:29.479 size of the ear. 0:49:29.719 --> 0:49:33.880 Yeah, smaller ears on a mammoth, toss length, big curved 0:49:33.920 --> 0:49:36.720 tusk on a on a mammoth as well. 0:49:36.640 --> 0:49:39.560 The pellage, the hair very hairy. What else are they seeing? 0:49:39.600 --> 0:49:42.000 They have a brown fat, so they need to have 0:49:42.040 --> 0:49:43.760 these sort of cold tolerant feed up types. 0:49:44.160 --> 0:49:45.000 They lived in a much. 0:49:44.880 --> 0:49:45.960 Colder I got cut into. 0:49:46.760 --> 0:49:48.920 Yeah, so there's this brown added post layer that you 0:49:48.920 --> 0:49:50.719 put in in sort of like if you thought about 0:49:50.719 --> 0:49:53.880 blubberd would be similar to that. And then there's also 0:49:54.040 --> 0:49:57.279 things like, you know, physiological changes that you need. So 0:49:57.320 --> 0:49:58.680 one of the things that you have to do to 0:49:59.000 --> 0:50:01.560 live in extreme old temperatures you have to be much 0:50:01.560 --> 0:50:05.040 better at oxygen transfer, so you need to target things 0:50:05.040 --> 0:50:08.080 that provide those adaptations. Then we have all those targeted 0:50:08.120 --> 0:50:11.040 and the edits are happening today in a lab. Meanwhile 0:50:11.080 --> 0:50:13.040 to that, we're doing all the reproductive sides. So when 0:50:13.040 --> 0:50:16.399 the moment we have our edited mammoth cells, we'll pull 0:50:16.440 --> 0:50:18.239 the nucleus out of that and we'll put it into 0:50:18.280 --> 0:50:21.520 that into the egg of an Asian elephant. That Asian 0:50:21.520 --> 0:50:25.280 elephant egg then is fertilized and becomes a wooly mammoth embryo, 0:50:25.840 --> 0:50:28.759 and then from there you use artificial reproduction, not too 0:50:28.800 --> 0:50:34.480 dissimilar to things like IVF and artificial and artificial insemination. 0:50:34.640 --> 0:50:37.000 Those are the basest basic tools that we start, and 0:50:37.040 --> 0:50:39.720 then we go to somatic cell nuclear transfer, which is cloning, 0:50:40.280 --> 0:50:44.480 and we clone that embryo and transfer it into an 0:50:44.520 --> 0:50:47.520 Asian elephant, or when you really want to get to 0:50:47.600 --> 0:50:51.160 the real sci fi stuff, that we're doing an artificial womb. 0:50:51.200 --> 0:50:54.080 So we're building technologies to develop artificial wombs for these 0:50:54.120 --> 0:50:56.520 species as well, because if you're ever going to scale 0:50:56.520 --> 0:50:59.359 a population, you'll always be most limited by how many 0:50:59.360 --> 0:51:01.680 females are in that population. So if we wanted to 0:51:01.719 --> 0:51:05.080 make five hundred Northern white rhinos, we would need five 0:51:05.200 --> 0:51:09.360 hundred Southern white rhino females. But if we had artificial bombs, 0:51:09.360 --> 0:51:10.360 the sky's the limit. 0:51:12.800 --> 0:51:16.440 With his diagram, Well, I got asked to and I 0:51:16.480 --> 0:51:19.920 can see this argument coming from a guy who's sitting 0:51:20.000 --> 0:51:26.000 immediately to my life pushback because it's not the same, right, Oh, 0:51:26.080 --> 0:51:29.040 you want to de extinction, Well the animal is not 0:51:29.040 --> 0:51:29.359 the same. 0:51:29.400 --> 0:51:31.120 Well you'd be able to be like, that's what it 0:51:31.239 --> 0:51:31.799 looked like. 0:51:32.320 --> 0:51:36.520 Right, But it's not it, right absolutely, But I guess 0:51:36.239 --> 0:51:40.279 my question would be, you know, let's talk about pumas 0:51:40.400 --> 0:51:43.840 are a good example. Yep, right, what makes a puma, puma. 0:51:43.920 --> 0:51:45.640 We'll talk about the Florida pan a Florida panther. 0:51:45.680 --> 0:51:47.360 If I go to if I go to South Florida 0:51:47.400 --> 0:51:49.719 and I find a Florida panther, where I come up 0:51:49.719 --> 0:51:53.200 here and I find a cougar, they're the same species, 0:51:53.960 --> 0:51:55.640 but they are completely different. 0:51:55.840 --> 0:51:58.600 Well, were well because. 0:51:59.520 --> 0:52:01.840 Because they well, okay, is this supplement. 0:52:02.080 --> 0:52:05.680 I'm glad you brought this up. Yeah, the Florida panther, 0:52:05.960 --> 0:52:07.680 they got down to less. 0:52:07.440 --> 0:52:11.160 Than fifty and they had extreme genetic bottlenecking issues. 0:52:11.120 --> 0:52:14.640 And some folks said, well, let's bring in some other ones. 0:52:15.480 --> 0:52:19.640 And the argument was, well, no, because we're gonna lose 0:52:19.719 --> 0:52:24.000 that little special something that makes them the Florida panther. 0:52:24.200 --> 0:52:26.359 And it says, you know, what you're gonna lose is 0:52:26.600 --> 0:52:30.880 the whole thing. Right, you can hang on to something 0:52:32.080 --> 0:52:35.920 by bringing in new animals, but if you take the 0:52:36.000 --> 0:52:38.800 path of you know, if you take your current path, 0:52:39.000 --> 0:52:40.320 they're just gonna blink out and be on. 0:52:40.480 --> 0:52:42.399 And it's one of my favorite examples because I think 0:52:42.400 --> 0:52:44.359 conservation for a long time has stood in its own 0:52:44.360 --> 0:52:46.799 way with this idea of perfection ahead of good. Right, 0:52:46.920 --> 0:52:48.040 this whole perfection is. 0:52:48.040 --> 0:52:48.759 The enemy of good. 0:52:48.920 --> 0:52:52.120 They're the idealism that we should have exactly what was 0:52:52.160 --> 0:52:55.359 represented in that range, which is a false narrative because 0:52:55.360 --> 0:52:58.680 we don't even know truly we can guess really well. 0:52:59.360 --> 0:53:02.360 But when I think the Florida Panther Genetic Rescue Project 0:53:02.440 --> 0:53:04.400 is an amazing example that you don't have to have 0:53:04.520 --> 0:53:07.520 exactly the same thing. You need very specific phenotypes that 0:53:07.560 --> 0:53:10.960 make that help it perform that ecosystem function that helps 0:53:11.000 --> 0:53:14.000 improve the health of the ecosystem and helps restore population, 0:53:14.360 --> 0:53:17.040 and then the environmental factors that still exist in these 0:53:17.120 --> 0:53:20.319 ranges will push that animal back into more of what 0:53:20.520 --> 0:53:23.120 you might consider one hundred percent of pure of that species. 0:53:23.200 --> 0:53:26.520 Yeah. And in the meanwhile, it's eating what they ate. Yep, 0:53:26.640 --> 0:53:27.280 it's using. 0:53:27.760 --> 0:53:28.839 Going to do the same job. 0:53:28.920 --> 0:53:31.080 Well, isn't that true that like the bison you guys 0:53:31.080 --> 0:53:33.720 were work the hides you were working on those bison 0:53:33.760 --> 0:53:36.600 aren't one? 0:53:36.840 --> 0:53:40.640 Yeah? Right, Like that's a case where was the expression 0:53:40.640 --> 0:53:43.279 you used? Perfection is the idea of good? Yeah, that 0:53:43.320 --> 0:53:47.360 whole discussion about I think this whole discussion about cattle 0:53:47.400 --> 0:53:51.360 intro aggression into bison as being where it becomes like 0:53:51.400 --> 0:53:54.960 an obstacle to bison restoration. I think it's such a distraction. 0:53:55.000 --> 0:53:57.320 It is, and you can line up a thousand humans 0:53:57.320 --> 0:54:01.200 and be like, what is that animal buffalo? You're like, Nope, yeah, 0:54:02.800 --> 0:54:05.840 it's a it's zero point two cattle. You know. 0:54:05.960 --> 0:54:09.360 It's in our chief science officer, Beth Shapiro, who you know, 0:54:10.440 --> 0:54:14.440 she has for a long time studied bison genetics and 0:54:14.480 --> 0:54:16.920 she's got this amazing grad student Jonas, who they are 0:54:17.200 --> 0:54:20.360 just published a paper that shows the cattle integression narrative 0:54:20.440 --> 0:54:23.080 is completely false. If you go back historically and you 0:54:23.120 --> 0:54:26.520 look at bison before the presence of domestic cattle, they 0:54:26.560 --> 0:54:29.080 had the same level of representation of what we think 0:54:29.120 --> 0:54:31.600 today is cattle in them, but it's just because it's 0:54:31.600 --> 0:54:35.600 a they evolved from a similar release. Yeah, so there 0:54:35.719 --> 0:54:39.480 is actually very good evidence to suggest that Bfalow is 0:54:40.160 --> 0:54:40.960 kind of bs. 0:54:41.719 --> 0:54:43.160 Yeah, I've talked to her about that. 0:54:43.239 --> 0:54:47.160 Yeah, because there's actually a reproductive block for future generations 0:54:47.200 --> 0:54:51.200 once you hybridize the two species. So it's really interesting. 0:54:51.239 --> 0:54:55.080 We don't fully understand it, but Jonas's research shows that 0:54:55.200 --> 0:54:57.560 if you go back in time, you can see that 0:54:57.600 --> 0:55:00.680 the same representation at cattle in their genome that you today. 0:55:00.480 --> 0:55:03.200 With from like the base of the exactly tree. 0:55:03.280 --> 0:55:05.360 Yeah, they sort of evolved from a similar ancestor, so 0:55:05.400 --> 0:55:06.680 they'd have similar DNA. 0:55:07.280 --> 0:55:10.000 Yeah, I guess to be similar with how you know, 0:55:11.800 --> 0:55:16.000 all everybody of Western European descent has some trace element 0:55:16.160 --> 0:55:18.120 of Neanderthal exactly. 0:55:19.080 --> 0:55:21.640 But that doesn't mean we hybridized with neanderthalogists, we had 0:55:21.640 --> 0:55:22.560 a common answer. 0:55:22.280 --> 0:55:23.640 So it doesn't mean we're still doing it. 0:55:23.880 --> 0:55:26.400 Yeah, I've seen a few examples. 0:55:27.320 --> 0:55:29.840 So let's talk about that. Though, I want to go 0:55:29.880 --> 0:55:32.919 back to this, the set of the steps you do. 0:55:35.320 --> 0:55:38.960 The most obvious question is, uh, what's your what's your guess? 0:55:39.080 --> 0:55:40.719 When does this thing hit? When does the first one 0:55:40.800 --> 0:55:41.320 hit the ground? 0:55:41.360 --> 0:55:43.720 Science is so hard and I hate to put pressure 0:55:43.719 --> 0:55:45.480 on our scientists, and but I can because I'm not 0:55:45.520 --> 0:55:47.400 in the lab doing this, right, I'm just the stupid 0:55:47.480 --> 0:55:50.239 animal guy that talks about this stuff. Uh, you know, 0:55:50.239 --> 0:55:53.520 we're really moving forward quickly. We just had this amazing 0:55:53.520 --> 0:55:56.160 announcement that we've been the first people to ever achieve 0:55:56.239 --> 0:55:59.399 this plary ponent stem cell line of elephants that's never 0:55:59.400 --> 0:56:01.359 been done, which is sort of an integral step along 0:56:01.400 --> 0:56:05.560 the way. So we're looking, you know, twenty twenty eight 0:56:05.640 --> 0:56:08.080 is what we're targeting right now. I would say we 0:56:08.200 --> 0:56:11.239 have to also acknowledge that there's two year gestation for 0:56:11.280 --> 0:56:13.320 these so you know, I would always put plus or 0:56:13.400 --> 0:56:16.160 minuses on these things. But we're you know, I think 0:56:16.200 --> 0:56:18.799 this is much sooner than people expect. There's so many 0:56:18.880 --> 0:56:22.040 challenges ahead that you know, one step could could delay us. 0:56:22.080 --> 0:56:25.400 But that's the course so far. That's what we painted 0:56:25.400 --> 0:56:26.240 and we're on target. 0:56:26.680 --> 0:56:32.640 And when it does, sorry Brodie, real quick, is it 0:56:32.680 --> 0:56:34.840 a multi step process or does the first one that 0:56:34.920 --> 0:56:36.879 hit the ground be like, that's what you're aiming for? 0:56:37.239 --> 0:56:40.560 We don't, I would I would say we're always going 0:56:40.640 --> 0:56:44.400 to be improving, right, It's not that this is an 0:56:44.480 --> 0:56:47.359 iterative process that requires multiple steps, but it is likely 0:56:47.400 --> 0:56:52.399 that you learn something that changes the next sequence of events. Right, 0:56:52.480 --> 0:56:55.040 So as we see the first one, we say, oh, actually, 0:56:55.920 --> 0:56:58.120 you know, maybe this phenotype needed to be tweaked, or 0:56:58.120 --> 0:56:59.880 maybe we have a better understanding of what we call 0:57:00.000 --> 0:57:03.479 genotype of phenotype relationships, and then that would that would 0:57:03.480 --> 0:57:05.680 inform a different type of editing strategy. 0:57:06.960 --> 0:57:07.720 Who do you guys? 0:57:09.080 --> 0:57:13.879 You guys answer to as far as like legality, I mean, 0:57:13.920 --> 0:57:17.600 there's like obviously like ethical and moral questions that some 0:57:17.640 --> 0:57:20.200 people are going to have about this whole thing, but like, 0:57:20.320 --> 0:57:24.760 where's the where's the oversight, like, because you guys are 0:57:24.800 --> 0:57:28.160 like international, right, like or is it just us? 0:57:28.360 --> 0:57:28.440 No? 0:57:28.560 --> 0:57:31.240 Well, the operation is US base. We also have some 0:57:31.320 --> 0:57:34.000 partners in Australia, so there's some of that as well. 0:57:34.040 --> 0:57:40.040 But uh, it's with anything, especially in the US regulatory environment, 0:57:40.160 --> 0:57:42.920 it's a mess, right, It's there's there's so many competing 0:57:42.960 --> 0:57:47.760 forces for jurisdictional power that we don't really have all 0:57:47.800 --> 0:57:50.400 the answers yet. What we are doing today is we're 0:57:50.440 --> 0:57:53.360 working to help support the ic N if you're familiar 0:57:53.360 --> 0:57:56.160 with to the right, So we're supporting the ic N 0:57:56.200 --> 0:58:00.480 Species Survival Commission to really start to drive forward policy 0:58:00.520 --> 0:58:03.000 statements and really begin to build that roadmap. So we 0:58:03.040 --> 0:58:05.200 want to help facilitate those things, but in a third 0:58:05.240 --> 0:58:08.680 party independent fashion, so that these groups can help say 0:58:08.800 --> 0:58:12.120 this is the exact pathway that has legal, regulatory and 0:58:12.160 --> 0:58:15.480 ethical considerations already baked into it, and then that's sort 0:58:15.520 --> 0:58:18.240 of the gold standard that most governments are looking to 0:58:18.240 --> 0:58:21.600 to help inform their domestic regulation. Here in the US, 0:58:21.640 --> 0:58:25.280 we're certainly subjected to things like USDA, which and APHIS, 0:58:25.280 --> 0:58:29.919 which has oversight over animals and human care, especially mammals, right, 0:58:29.960 --> 0:58:32.400 and then US fish and wildlife because we're talking about 0:58:32.440 --> 0:58:35.560 endangered species. Some siety is listed some of USA listed species. 0:58:36.600 --> 0:58:39.840 And then we have things like FDA when you're intentionally 0:58:39.880 --> 0:58:44.160 altering the genome of an animal, technically there are aspects 0:58:44.160 --> 0:58:47.200 of that that could fall under FDA jurisdiction. But what's 0:58:47.240 --> 0:58:49.880 really interesting is there's groups that have been going through 0:58:49.920 --> 0:58:52.760 this same process on the AG site already, So there 0:58:52.800 --> 0:58:56.000 are some guardrails in place if we just want to 0:58:56.040 --> 0:58:59.480 be the subject matter expert to provide responsible regulation and 0:58:59.520 --> 0:59:02.360 move forward to yeather. But I think uh Awkway advantage 0:59:02.400 --> 0:59:05.080 salmon if you had had you guys ever seen that 0:59:05.080 --> 0:59:08.120 the genetically engineered line of salmon that are meant to 0:59:08.160 --> 0:59:13.000 be healthier in farm raise scenarios. They were given genetic 0:59:13.160 --> 0:59:15.919 editing tools to essentially help them heal faster because there's 0:59:15.960 --> 0:59:20.240 so much trauma in farm farm raise fishing. And that 0:59:20.360 --> 0:59:21.840 took twenty years to get approved. 0:59:22.960 --> 0:59:25.520 So and is it is it approved for human consumption? 0:59:25.920 --> 0:59:28.360 It's just last year it received a thumbs up. 0:59:28.800 --> 0:59:29.360 Really yeah? 0:59:29.480 --> 0:59:30.680 Is that off Atlantic salmon? 0:59:31.480 --> 0:59:33.760 I actually don't know which salmon. They based it on 0:59:34.280 --> 0:59:35.960 it's got to be it, Yeah, I would think. 0:59:36.000 --> 0:59:39.720 So all right, let me ask you this. This is 0:59:39.720 --> 0:59:45.880 the thing we've talked about in private conversation. We've discussed this. 0:59:48.960 --> 0:59:54.240 Why if you look at why the mammoth and why 0:59:55.000 --> 0:59:59.320 the Philo scene, what the Thilo scene, you could kind 0:59:59.320 --> 1:00:02.160 of look and be like one, it just happened. It 1:00:02.400 --> 1:00:07.760 just went extinct. Some people argue, not entirely crazy. People 1:00:08.640 --> 1:00:11.880 argue that it didn't go extinct. True, and it did 1:00:11.880 --> 1:00:14.960 for a while, have a Lazarus. It was regarded as 1:00:14.960 --> 1:00:19.880 a Lazarus species, referencing Lazarus from the Bible, where it 1:00:19.920 --> 1:00:21.720 was like they thought they were gone and they weren't. 1:00:22.080 --> 1:00:25.240 Another really famous Lazarus species of the blackfooted ferret. It 1:00:25.320 --> 1:00:27.440 was people thought they were gone, but they weren't so 1:00:27.560 --> 1:00:30.720 used to it's so fresh, there's people thinking that one 1:00:30.800 --> 1:00:34.080 might turn up. Okay, So here you have like an 1:00:34.120 --> 1:00:38.400 ecosystem that's ready to receive it. You have you can 1:00:38.480 --> 1:00:46.120 point to why it went extinct. The prey base is there, right, 1:00:46.720 --> 1:00:49.000 so you could you could put it back and it's 1:00:49.520 --> 1:00:51.440 and it's like it's it just it just wound up 1:00:51.480 --> 1:00:56.600 missing a beat like that to me, seems so constructive. 1:00:57.480 --> 1:01:01.880 It would be so it would enjoy such book support. Well, 1:01:01.880 --> 1:01:06.760 the Mammoth's like there's some argument that this ship has sailed. 1:01:07.360 --> 1:01:10.560 It's like, uh, it's like Brooks and shash Ank redemption. 1:01:11.240 --> 1:01:14.200 The world just got so damn fast. 1:01:14.320 --> 1:01:16.520 It was like Clay at the end of the live tour. Yeah, 1:01:17.960 --> 1:01:20.240 He's like, you know, I was gone with the world 1:01:20.360 --> 1:01:25.640 kept going. He couldn't reintegrate. Uh yeah. So like you 1:01:25.680 --> 1:01:28.520 know when when they were around, like have you seen 1:01:28.520 --> 1:01:30.360 all this stuff that's come out of that where they 1:01:30.400 --> 1:01:32.920 were able to look at stable isotopes and the mammoth 1:01:33.040 --> 1:01:36.840 tusk and he realized how much this, I mean, how 1:01:36.880 --> 1:01:39.520 much this mammoth in Alaska is moving during its lifetime. 1:01:39.720 --> 1:01:42.160 I mean some bitches like in the Yukon he's south 1:01:42.200 --> 1:01:44.040 of the Brooks Range. He's north of the Brooks Range. 1:01:44.040 --> 1:01:47.560 He basically traveled the length of California in a life 1:01:47.600 --> 1:01:51.439 that was he died at what twenty twenty years old 1:01:51.480 --> 1:01:56.480 or something like that. So it's like that ain't there anymore, 1:01:57.600 --> 1:01:58.720 do you know what I mean? So, how do you 1:01:58.760 --> 1:02:01.360 begin dealing with that? Like, how do you begin dealing 1:02:01.400 --> 1:02:03.920 with that? You want up with the sort of world's 1:02:03.920 --> 1:02:05.000 most lonely animal. 1:02:06.160 --> 1:02:07.800 Well, hopefully it won't be lonely because they'll be in 1:02:07.800 --> 1:02:08.400 a population. 1:02:08.520 --> 1:02:08.640 Right. 1:02:08.720 --> 1:02:10.720 This is not a one off novelty where you just 1:02:10.760 --> 1:02:13.480 have one of these. The focus is really create sustainable 1:02:13.480 --> 1:02:17.360 populations with the idea of re engineering what today is 1:02:17.400 --> 1:02:20.720 a tundry ecosystem that doesn't support a lot of biodiversity 1:02:20.760 --> 1:02:24.560 your life. Looking at what the Zimovs achieved with Plessing 1:02:24.640 --> 1:02:28.080 Park where they rewilded you know, large vertebrates like muskox 1:02:28.160 --> 1:02:31.240 and wild horses and even bisen. 1:02:31.440 --> 1:02:32.640 How many acres is that? 1:02:32.720 --> 1:02:33.240 It's small? 1:02:33.880 --> 1:02:35.200 I don't want to give you the wrong number, but 1:02:35.200 --> 1:02:38.160 it's not. It's not massive, something like eighty or eight 1:02:38.280 --> 1:02:39.560 hundred hector or something like that. 1:02:40.360 --> 1:02:42.600 How do you get around the argument though, that the 1:02:42.680 --> 1:02:45.240 animals that are on the tundra now are the ones 1:02:45.280 --> 1:02:46.400 that belong there now? 1:02:47.200 --> 1:02:50.360 Well, I think what we're what we find is that 1:02:50.480 --> 1:02:52.360 and this is there's a lot of evidence that shows 1:02:52.400 --> 1:02:54.880 us in West Africa forest elephants, is that the presence 1:02:54.920 --> 1:02:59.160 of a large mammal like that of Probsidian actually opens 1:02:59.240 --> 1:03:02.880 up moreological niches. So it's not really displacing species, it's 1:03:02.880 --> 1:03:06.360 creating more niches to bring more biodiversity. The Mamma step 1:03:06.560 --> 1:03:09.920 grassland ecosystem that existed four thousand years ago was as 1:03:09.920 --> 1:03:14.160 biodiverse as the African savannah, and today it is, you know, 1:03:14.440 --> 1:03:15.720 sort of a Martian landscape. 1:03:15.760 --> 1:03:16.880 Right, It's really bare. 1:03:16.920 --> 1:03:21.000 And so this idea that we could create more habital, 1:03:21.760 --> 1:03:28.320 habitable ecosystem for more biodiversity is really compelling in a 1:03:28.480 --> 1:03:32.040 time when we're facing the world's largest biodiversity crisis. We 1:03:32.040 --> 1:03:34.920 talk about climate change all the time, and people can 1:03:34.960 --> 1:03:37.200 debate that to their blue in the face. What you 1:03:37.240 --> 1:03:40.920 can't debate is that the extinction rates we see across 1:03:40.920 --> 1:03:43.880 the world are only accelerating. You know, by twenty fifty 1:03:43.880 --> 1:03:45.520 there are some people that estimate we could lose up 1:03:45.520 --> 1:03:48.280 to fifty percent of all mammal species. Right, we need 1:03:48.320 --> 1:03:51.080 to find solutions. We need to begin to say how 1:03:51.080 --> 1:03:54.600 can we support nature to be more resilient because nature, 1:03:54.720 --> 1:03:57.960 given time, space opportunity, will evolve and it's showing us 1:03:58.040 --> 1:04:00.320 that that's why we have the amazing ecosis since we 1:04:00.360 --> 1:04:02.160 have today, That's why we have yellows in National Park. 1:04:02.240 --> 1:04:02.400 Right. 1:04:02.800 --> 1:04:06.080 His nature has provided something amazing. But when we continue 1:04:06.080 --> 1:04:09.200 to layer pressure upon pressure upon pressure. We're really paining 1:04:09.280 --> 1:04:11.800 nature into a corner in a place where now it 1:04:11.840 --> 1:04:15.560 cannot respond fasten us. Evolution cannot keep up, and so 1:04:15.600 --> 1:04:18.200 what we're looking to do is to provide engineering solutions 1:04:18.240 --> 1:04:20.920 to accelerate evolution, to provide nature a chance to keep 1:04:20.960 --> 1:04:24.120 up with humanity, which is really difficult. But you know, 1:04:24.440 --> 1:04:27.960 I think restoring ecosystems is the start of that. Removing 1:04:27.960 --> 1:04:32.880 evasive predators, right, We're using technologies like genetic biocontrols to 1:04:32.920 --> 1:04:36.080 remove an invasive predator from say Mauritius, so that it 1:04:36.120 --> 1:04:39.960 can prepare prepare an ecosystem for the Dodo is amazing. 1:04:39.960 --> 1:04:42.320 I think everybody agreed that rats, cats and monkeys don't 1:04:42.320 --> 1:04:43.560 belong on mauritious and. 1:04:43.520 --> 1:04:47.360 A genetic biocontrol would be making everybody mail. 1:04:47.800 --> 1:04:50.000 Yeah, that would be one form of a genetic biocontrol. 1:04:50.040 --> 1:04:52.680 Gene drives is another form, right, So we sort of 1:04:52.720 --> 1:04:56.000 have these multiple ways that you can create a deleterious 1:04:56.040 --> 1:04:58.600 allele within an animal's genome but also give them a 1:04:58.600 --> 1:05:01.600 biological fitness advantage. They go into an ecosystem, they spread 1:05:01.600 --> 1:05:05.200 that allele that gene throughout the population, and that helps 1:05:05.200 --> 1:05:08.240 suppress the population or in some case completely exterminate it. 1:05:09.200 --> 1:05:12.080 So you know, there are these amazing opportunities, they're just 1:05:12.400 --> 1:05:15.800 emerging technologies that don't have the regulatory guardrails yet, that 1:05:15.840 --> 1:05:18.600 don't have the social understanding to really support those And 1:05:18.640 --> 1:05:20.320 so that's one of the things is we want to 1:05:20.360 --> 1:05:23.880 help socialize those ideas and help bring these debates to 1:05:23.920 --> 1:05:27.840 the forefront, because for us, it's important that people that 1:05:27.920 --> 1:05:29.480 we acknowledge we don't have all the answers. 1:05:29.520 --> 1:05:31.120 We have some amazingly. 1:05:30.560 --> 1:05:33.760 Powerful tools, but we need to have debates about these 1:05:33.760 --> 1:05:36.200 things because the fact of the matter is the status 1:05:36.280 --> 1:05:39.560 quo is losing. We're falling behind every year, and we 1:05:39.640 --> 1:05:42.600 need to do something maybe a little more drastic, and 1:05:42.640 --> 1:05:44.360 that's what Colossal's providing right now. 1:05:45.120 --> 1:05:47.520 So with the case of the mammoth, like the road map, right, 1:05:47.560 --> 1:05:50.800 so Steve just talked about this one individual that enjoyed 1:05:50.840 --> 1:05:55.080 this giant historic range is just not going to have 1:05:55.240 --> 1:05:58.560 those types of freedoms, so you would try to find 1:05:58.600 --> 1:06:02.680 a suitable habitat with a lot of controls, right exactly. 1:06:02.960 --> 1:06:06.480 And also that first mammoth is going to be uh, 1:06:07.320 --> 1:06:09.880 pretty valuable. I'm gonna have quite the price tag attached 1:06:09.880 --> 1:06:10.480 to it, right. 1:06:10.760 --> 1:06:12.040 You know, I think what they ought to do, and 1:06:12.080 --> 1:06:14.919 I've said this, we need to make nice with Russia again. 1:06:16.560 --> 1:06:18.560 I'm not saying I'm not talking about I'm not waiting 1:06:18.600 --> 1:06:21.080 into geopolitics. Let's say there's a world in which we 1:06:21.120 --> 1:06:23.800 made nice with Russia again and we went to Wrangle Island, 1:06:25.120 --> 1:06:28.520 which was the last place they existed. They didn't blink 1:06:28.520 --> 1:06:30.080 out till four thousand years ago. 1:06:30.080 --> 1:06:32.800 On Wrangle Island, the Great Pyramids of Gaza were under 1:06:32.800 --> 1:06:35.000 construction when the will of Mammoth went extinct. Like, I 1:06:35.000 --> 1:06:37.840 think that a lot of people don't have that context 1:06:37.840 --> 1:06:39.560 at time, right, They feel like this is such an 1:06:39.560 --> 1:06:42.760 ancient thing, you know, No, the Egyptians were a highly 1:06:42.760 --> 1:06:46.360 civilized group at the same time that Mammot swalk this earth. 1:06:46.560 --> 1:06:51.200 Remember Trump was some about buying Iceland. No, He's like, 1:06:51.200 --> 1:06:53.920 well buy Greenland, yeah, which people tease him about. But 1:06:53.920 --> 1:06:56.439 I thought I was like, that's a good idea. Maybe 1:06:56.440 --> 1:06:57.560 we can buy Wrangle Island. 1:06:58.200 --> 1:07:00.840 Absolutely, but yeah, like a situation like that, right, it's 1:07:00.840 --> 1:07:01.760 got its own fence. 1:07:03.320 --> 1:07:05.440 I think that's how you pilot these things, right, These 1:07:06.280 --> 1:07:10.000 have to be this a very thoughtful, stagegated process of rewilding. 1:07:10.320 --> 1:07:13.400 You cannot just make a lily mammoth and say godspeed. 1:07:14.640 --> 1:07:16.920 It's similar happened to that thing. 1:07:17.000 --> 1:07:19.000 No, we have to talk about, like, you know where, 1:07:19.120 --> 1:07:23.400 how does it start in a highly managed situation with caretakers, 1:07:23.800 --> 1:07:27.160 and then generationally that that level of care is decreased 1:07:27.200 --> 1:07:30.040 and that ecosystems are broader and broader, and eventually we'll 1:07:30.040 --> 1:07:31.520 get to a point of what we would call a 1:07:31.560 --> 1:07:34.760 soft release, which is sort of this vast ecosystems probably 1:07:34.840 --> 1:07:38.440 fenced or has some sort of physical barrier that allows 1:07:38.520 --> 1:07:41.840 us to say, okay, here is the experimental condition that 1:07:41.880 --> 1:07:44.720 people need to understand what's happening, and then one day 1:07:44.760 --> 1:07:48.240 you would open that gate and truly rewild and then. 1:07:48.200 --> 1:07:51.400 Just a crazy amount of consistent data on what's happening 1:07:51.400 --> 1:07:53.440 to the landscape because. 1:07:53.040 --> 1:07:56.840 Of And that's so exciting is there's all these sort 1:07:56.840 --> 1:07:59.960 of things that have to happen in ten twenty third 1:08:00.280 --> 1:08:03.120 years for this to happen, and today we're building technologies 1:08:03.120 --> 1:08:04.480 to answer those questions. 1:08:04.480 --> 1:08:07.960 So, and you also have the eis with the the 1:08:08.040 --> 1:08:09.200 environmental impact statement. 1:08:09.280 --> 1:08:11.400 Oh yeah, that's why we should do rub it. 1:08:11.560 --> 1:08:17.080 Yeah, well, yeah, it's like doing an environmental impact statement 1:08:17.160 --> 1:08:19.559 on it is going to be arduous. 1:08:19.400 --> 1:08:22.880 Absolutely, But I think there's a lot of opportunity in 1:08:23.360 --> 1:08:27.559 many of these efforts because there's emerging economies around conservation 1:08:27.640 --> 1:08:30.720 that help drive and support, you know, sustained effort. If 1:08:30.760 --> 1:08:33.559 you were able to improve biodiversity in area that currently 1:08:33.640 --> 1:08:36.719 has a low baseline of diversity, and you could create 1:08:36.760 --> 1:08:40.200 this African savannah like diversity in the Arctic, you could 1:08:40.840 --> 1:08:44.360 you know, eventually begin to apply for things like biodiversity 1:08:44.400 --> 1:08:48.599 and carbon credits. That becomes sustainable ways to protect nature, 1:08:48.840 --> 1:08:52.840 and it's investing in the preservation restoration in nature rather 1:08:52.880 --> 1:08:55.759 than extracting resources from nature. 1:09:04.160 --> 1:09:09.600 Let's let's take another example and and talk about the 1:09:09.600 --> 1:09:13.080 the Ivory built woodpecker. Yeah, okay, the Ivy built woodpecker 1:09:13.320 --> 1:09:14.000 went extinct. 1:09:14.080 --> 1:09:15.360 Maybe another Lasar instagrat. 1:09:15.360 --> 1:09:17.759 I'm talking to your Yeah, it's. 1:09:17.680 --> 1:09:20.960 Gone something everybody this season in c I. 1:09:20.880 --> 1:09:24.320 Think that's for Louisiana, right, that was the last one 1:09:24.320 --> 1:09:26.960 always affiliated woodpecker. 1:09:27.200 --> 1:09:31.320 Yeah, there's the thing of Ivory built woodpecker. People see it. 1:09:31.320 --> 1:09:34.360 It's affiliated pilated woodpecker. And then I went and held 1:09:34.360 --> 1:09:40.400 the Ivory build woodpecker. Remember at Cornell, who's there you guys. Yeah, 1:09:40.439 --> 1:09:42.400 but I felt I used to kind of like, in 1:09:42.479 --> 1:09:46.400 my mind tease people who screwed mixed them up. And 1:09:46.439 --> 1:09:48.599 when I held it, I'm like, Okay, I'm never gonna 1:09:48.600 --> 1:09:50.040 tease anyone again for mixing. 1:09:49.960 --> 1:09:51.639 Not blurry bigfoot footage. 1:09:51.680 --> 1:09:55.680 No, it's just like not. When I picked up the 1:09:55.720 --> 1:09:57.680 Ivy built woodpecker, I was thinking i'd be picking up 1:09:57.720 --> 1:10:01.360 like a like a do you know what I mean, 1:10:01.439 --> 1:10:04.080 like like, and it was just it was kind of like, oh, 1:10:04.680 --> 1:10:08.040 it's a delicate Yeah, it's got a different bill, but 1:10:08.080 --> 1:10:10.599 I mean it's like it's it's not this. I just 1:10:10.640 --> 1:10:12.920 in my mind I had them just enormous, you know, 1:10:12.960 --> 1:10:16.160 I had them like like a I don't know, man, 1:10:16.200 --> 1:10:18.839 I just pictured him like giants and you see appiliated woodpecker. 1:10:18.880 --> 1:10:21.000 It's a good sized bird, but it's not that. And 1:10:21.040 --> 1:10:22.840 then I held one and I'm like, okay, I see 1:10:22.880 --> 1:10:24.439 it now, I see how you screwed this up. Like 1:10:24.640 --> 1:10:27.400 I wasn't. I was under no discredit to the Ivy 1:10:27.439 --> 1:10:29.800 built woodpecker. What I'm trying to say is I was 1:10:29.920 --> 1:10:34.080 underwhelmed by his size and felt sympathetic toward people that 1:10:34.240 --> 1:10:37.519 screwed up when they see appiliated woodpecker. But point being, 1:10:37.560 --> 1:10:41.879 it went it went extinct during for many of you listening, 1:10:42.280 --> 1:10:47.120 It's true of me, it went stinc extinct during your parents' lifetime. 1:10:48.320 --> 1:10:50.400 We know we could, someone could take you out and 1:10:50.439 --> 1:10:55.560 show you the tree where they were last known to exist. 1:10:55.800 --> 1:11:00.920 The singer you heard of, singer sewing Machines YEP. Singer 1:11:01.439 --> 1:11:04.639 had a forest that they held, a forest it had 1:11:04.640 --> 1:11:09.639 ivybuild woodpeckers on it. They went to do a timber cut. 1:11:10.160 --> 1:11:13.080 People begged them not to. They did the timber cut. 1:11:13.160 --> 1:11:16.919 They actually cut a tree that ivybuild woodpeckers were using. 1:11:17.560 --> 1:11:20.800 They saw them fly out as the tree was I'm 1:11:20.840 --> 1:11:26.120 not joking, and then they were extinct. The biggest problem 1:11:26.160 --> 1:11:29.679 they have is just needing large old girl trees with cavities. 1:11:30.040 --> 1:11:32.240 Yeah, and it's a really challenging one because it is 1:11:32.280 --> 1:11:34.080 a reliant on that old growth hardwood. 1:11:34.520 --> 1:11:37.479 And I brought it up to you being like, let's 1:11:38.080 --> 1:11:40.680 focus on that, and you talked about how birds are 1:11:40.760 --> 1:11:41.479 pain in the ass. 1:11:41.560 --> 1:11:42.880 Yeah, birds are really. 1:11:42.640 --> 1:11:44.799 Why is that? Why are birds of pain in the ass. 1:11:44.840 --> 1:11:47.320 Obviously we're focusing on birds because we have this DODO 1:11:47.400 --> 1:11:53.080 project right forty pound flightless pigeon essentially from Murcius. What's 1:11:53.080 --> 1:11:55.559 amazing about that is it's also this sort of engine 1:11:55.600 --> 1:11:59.679 that's driving an investment into avian conservation science that that 1:11:59.680 --> 1:12:02.360 that hasn't really been there so far. In the late 1:12:02.439 --> 1:12:04.800 nineties we figured out cloning with Dolly the sheep, and 1:12:04.840 --> 1:12:09.120 now we've improved it vastly in mammals. But mammal reproduction 1:12:09.200 --> 1:12:11.920 is very different as you could would imagine from avian reproduction. 1:12:12.920 --> 1:12:17.599 So typically we would, like like I mentioned with mammalian cloning, 1:12:17.640 --> 1:12:20.080 we would take a skin cell and pull the nucleus 1:12:20.080 --> 1:12:21.559 out and put it into an egg. Well, you can't 1:12:21.560 --> 1:12:23.800 just drop a nucleus into a bird egg because it's 1:12:23.800 --> 1:12:25.160 a calcified egg and. 1:12:25.080 --> 1:12:27.200 You need to fertilize it while it's still in the body. 1:12:28.040 --> 1:12:29.120 So what you can do. 1:12:30.080 --> 1:12:33.720 What you can do is when you have, say in 1:12:33.800 --> 1:12:37.599 the case of the Dodo and Nicobar pigeon egg, that 1:12:37.720 --> 1:12:40.160 is you know, within about three days of fertilization, so 1:12:40.520 --> 1:12:44.400 early incubation stage, we can actually window the egg and 1:12:44.800 --> 1:12:47.800 really using really small tools, you can pull a couple 1:12:47.800 --> 1:12:50.160 of micro leaders of blood out. And what's really unique 1:12:50.160 --> 1:12:57.680 about avian reproduction and development is that they're sorts the 1:12:57.840 --> 1:13:01.400 cells that pre date sperm and egg on primordi oalderam cells. 1:13:01.760 --> 1:13:04.680 They're floating around freely in the in the bloodstream, and 1:13:04.720 --> 1:13:06.960 then they migrate to the gonads and that's where they 1:13:06.960 --> 1:13:11.280 begin to make you know, adult sperm and egg. While 1:13:11.280 --> 1:13:15.160 they're still floating within the within the bloodstream, we can 1:13:15.200 --> 1:13:18.280 pull those microleader to a blood out and culture those 1:13:18.479 --> 1:13:20.920 we call PGCs primarial dram cells, and. 1:13:20.920 --> 1:13:21.840 Use those to edit. 1:13:22.760 --> 1:13:26.280 And then we take those edited PGCs that are now 1:13:26.360 --> 1:13:30.800 not making chicken or pigeon, they're making Dodo sperm and egg, 1:13:31.120 --> 1:13:35.280 and put them back into the surrogate egg of a 1:13:35.400 --> 1:13:39.000 of a sterilized like say chicken or pigeon line. And 1:13:39.040 --> 1:13:41.560 then there those cells will migrate into their gonads and 1:13:41.600 --> 1:13:45.160 suddenly have this nicobar pigeon that's actually creating Dodo sperm 1:13:45.360 --> 1:13:48.840 or egg. The two pigeons will mate and they'll make 1:13:48.880 --> 1:13:49.280 a Dodo. 1:13:49.880 --> 1:13:51.519 Oh my goodness, how are they making it? 1:13:52.080 --> 1:13:53.920 Yeah? 1:13:54.080 --> 1:13:55.080 I was picturing the vent. 1:13:56.040 --> 1:13:57.400 So this is why, you know, one of one of 1:13:57.400 --> 1:13:59.759 the things we talk about is, you know, pigeons, probably 1:14:00.200 --> 1:14:03.599 our pigeons will be the genomic donner. The actual animal 1:14:03.640 --> 1:14:06.840 serga would be a large hen chicken. Yeah, it's not 1:14:06.880 --> 1:14:10.120 even that big. I mean there are there are domestic 1:14:10.360 --> 1:14:13.720 breeds of chickens way too. Yeah, you don't need that 1:14:13.800 --> 1:14:16.400 big now, So so we could so we could use 1:14:16.400 --> 1:14:17.240 it that chicken. 1:14:16.960 --> 1:14:19.920 Line, domestic chicken that could handle a egg like that. Uh. 1:14:20.479 --> 1:14:23.200 It just dawned on me that you have got to 1:14:23.200 --> 1:14:29.479 be spending as much time, if not more, on eradicating species, Yeah, 1:14:29.520 --> 1:14:33.000 as opposed to creating. Because I think of the big 1:14:33.040 --> 1:14:35.640 island of Hawaii. You're gonna have to get rid of 1:14:36.439 --> 1:14:39.960 introduced mongoose. You're gonna have to get which they've proven 1:14:40.000 --> 1:14:44.120 that they can't. Right, You're gonna have to get rid 1:14:44.160 --> 1:14:47.320 of mosquitoes, right, You're gonna have to get rid rid 1:14:47.360 --> 1:14:50.599 of snakes. You're gonna have to get rid of feral cats, 1:14:50.800 --> 1:14:55.120 which people are gonna love my crowd is at least. 1:14:55.520 --> 1:14:57.800 I mean, all of that has got to get done 1:14:58.680 --> 1:15:04.639 before you put this new experimental species back on the ground. 1:15:04.720 --> 1:15:04.920 Right. 1:15:04.960 --> 1:15:08.880 Well, they're developing tools that As they're developing tools, it 1:15:08.920 --> 1:15:11.679 could be helpful for that, right, Yeah, which are also 1:15:11.800 --> 1:15:14.720 subject to all kinds of scrutiny biocontrols. 1:15:14.880 --> 1:15:18.840 Yeah, you know, and I would say we regionally are 1:15:18.880 --> 1:15:22.519 targeted eradications. Right, just to be clear, you know, we 1:15:22.560 --> 1:15:26.160 don't want to just make all any mangoo species but 1:15:26.320 --> 1:15:27.400 poof off the face of the earth. 1:15:27.479 --> 1:15:28.959 Right, it needs to be in Hawaii. 1:15:29.000 --> 1:15:33.120 And so the habitat remediation work that has to occurb 1:15:33.240 --> 1:15:37.800 ahead of rewilding your species reintroduction is as important as 1:15:37.840 --> 1:15:40.439 the extinction. And that's why you know, we have such 1:15:40.439 --> 1:15:43.479 a large conservation focus of the company. That's why a 1:15:43.520 --> 1:15:46.200 big part of the job that me and my team 1:15:46.200 --> 1:15:50.040 have been tasked with is is going in forming partnerships 1:15:50.040 --> 1:15:54.519 with local stakeholders, local NGOs and governments and international NGOs 1:15:54.640 --> 1:15:57.559 so we can begin to pair habitats. You know, in 1:15:57.600 --> 1:15:59.760 a three weeks time, I'm jumping on a plane and 1:15:59.760 --> 1:16:01.920 flaming into Mauritius. I'm going to go there to meet 1:16:01.960 --> 1:16:04.559 with our partners at Marsian Wildlife Foundation to talk just 1:16:04.600 --> 1:16:07.439 about this. What are the islands around surrounding Mauritius that 1:16:07.479 --> 1:16:11.759 currently have invasive species that we would need to remove. 1:16:11.960 --> 1:16:14.719 And it's not just animals, it's also plants. Plant invasives 1:16:14.720 --> 1:16:16.799 are as bad as you you know, you could imagine. 1:16:16.880 --> 1:16:19.799 I mean, in order to begin grooming the landscape for dodos. 1:16:19.880 --> 1:16:20.639 Yeah, you can't. 1:16:20.680 --> 1:16:22.680 There's no sense in putting a dodo, which is a 1:16:22.680 --> 1:16:25.360 ground dwelling, ground nesting bird, in a place that the 1:16:25.400 --> 1:16:28.519 macaque was it, which was introduced by the Dutch. Is 1:16:28.600 --> 1:16:30.559 that monkey is still present where it's going to raid 1:16:30.560 --> 1:16:32.920 the nests and eat the eggs. We need to remove 1:16:32.960 --> 1:16:35.639 the macacus before we introduce the dodo. So those are 1:16:35.720 --> 1:16:38.639 sort of the issues. But also the dodo had specific 1:16:38.680 --> 1:16:42.439 dietary requirements and native plants are important, but you know, 1:16:42.520 --> 1:16:44.960 there's been a lot of introduced plant life there, so 1:16:45.000 --> 1:16:47.080 we have to also work with the amazing work that 1:16:47.160 --> 1:16:49.400 Marcian Wildlife Foundation has been doing to date. We're just 1:16:49.560 --> 1:16:52.320 trying to provide more tools, more funding, more more resources 1:16:52.320 --> 1:16:55.479 so that we can really make a difference before our doto, 1:16:55.520 --> 1:16:56.920 because the worst thing we could do is sit there 1:16:56.920 --> 1:16:58.800 with the dodo and not have a place to put 1:16:58.800 --> 1:17:00.680 it right. Then that's a that's as much of a 1:17:00.680 --> 1:17:02.320 failure as missing the target altogether. 1:17:02.439 --> 1:17:05.840 Well, the flip side of that is in some way 1:17:05.920 --> 1:17:10.080 having that Dodo ready to go incentivizes that work in 1:17:10.120 --> 1:17:13.160 a way that there isn't currently maybe as strong an 1:17:13.200 --> 1:17:15.639 impetus to take those stuffs. 1:17:15.880 --> 1:17:18.040 Yeah, I'm happy you called that out because I think 1:17:18.080 --> 1:17:21.880 one of the really amazing things about the Dodo in particular, 1:17:21.880 --> 1:17:25.040 but all the species that we're working on, is this 1:17:25.120 --> 1:17:27.880 idea that they become these shining lights of inspiration and 1:17:28.240 --> 1:17:32.080 to really help focus efforts back into habitat remediation and 1:17:32.560 --> 1:17:36.559 invasive removals and things like that. So you know, people say, well, 1:17:36.560 --> 1:17:39.519 what ecosystem function did the dodo provide? Well, it's not 1:17:39.600 --> 1:17:42.639 as critical as say an apex predator like the Tasmani tiger, 1:17:42.800 --> 1:17:46.439 but it does bring interest to a biodiversity hotspot to 1:17:46.520 --> 1:17:50.840 help bring funding, to help bring attention to repairing those 1:17:50.880 --> 1:17:54.360 ecosystems and preparing and preparing them for a Dodo means 1:17:54.360 --> 1:17:58.320 also improving life for so many other endemic species of 1:17:58.360 --> 1:17:59.360 the island immercies. 1:17:59.720 --> 1:18:02.760 Well, I mean just think of the eco tourism dollars right, Like, 1:18:02.800 --> 1:18:05.800 so there's incentive there, but there's also going to be 1:18:05.840 --> 1:18:09.759 the battle of like, uh, we can't build a hotel 1:18:09.840 --> 1:18:10.200 right there. 1:18:11.080 --> 1:18:15.840 Yeah, what's funny about the eco tourism aspect of it is, uh, 1:18:16.200 --> 1:18:20.080 you know, kids trip out about dinosaurs. They were so drastic. 1:18:20.160 --> 1:18:23.160 Part well, yeah, but you'd be like, but but you 1:18:23.200 --> 1:18:26.640 know what, man, the biggest animal to ever exist on 1:18:26.720 --> 1:18:30.800 Earth exists right now, ye, And why are you not 1:18:30.880 --> 1:18:33.760 eager to go look at that? It's there right now? 1:18:33.800 --> 1:18:37.240 Because it's the animal to ever exist on Earth is 1:18:37.240 --> 1:18:39.000 alive right now. And everyone wants to tell me how 1:18:39.040 --> 1:18:42.720 big dinosaurs were as that not as big as a 1:18:42.760 --> 1:18:43.320 blue whale? 1:18:43.920 --> 1:18:48.160 Right, Yeah, you've kind of gotten at this a little bit. 1:18:48.240 --> 1:18:55.160 But why why instead of Tasmanian tigers and dodos, instead 1:18:55.160 --> 1:18:58.440 of making them, why not make a bunch of California 1:18:58.439 --> 1:19:03.840 condors and Siberian tiger like now to help them? Now 1:19:04.200 --> 1:19:06.599 you know, obviously it's not like right now, but. 1:19:06.880 --> 1:19:08.920 Yeah, I would say it's not an either or proposition 1:19:09.000 --> 1:19:13.120 for us. It is use these these really compelling case 1:19:13.160 --> 1:19:16.320 studies to help drive the research, drive the investment to 1:19:16.360 --> 1:19:18.679 be able to apply it immediately to California condor. 1:19:18.960 --> 1:19:20.800 We've been meeting with, you know, we have. 1:19:21.160 --> 1:19:23.000 We'll be making this big announcement about some of our 1:19:23.000 --> 1:19:25.479 focus on North American species coming up here probably about 1:19:25.479 --> 1:19:27.720 the time this podcast drops. And one of those is 1:19:27.760 --> 1:19:30.439 also to work with Native American tribes and work in 1:19:30.520 --> 1:19:34.439 Indian country where they're already doing amazing conservation and and 1:19:34.479 --> 1:19:37.400 what's happening with California condor, and now there's reintroduction efforts 1:19:37.400 --> 1:19:40.280 that are being focused on in Idaho and as person, 1:19:40.280 --> 1:19:43.080 and I think that's where we want to begin to focus. 1:19:43.120 --> 1:19:45.280 So we have these toolkits. 1:19:45.000 --> 1:19:47.679 And there are already amazing groups working on California condor. 1:19:47.720 --> 1:19:50.360 There's so much attention on tigers, right, we can focus 1:19:50.439 --> 1:19:53.040 other places that great tools that then begin to bleed 1:19:53.080 --> 1:19:55.479 over and can be optimized back to those other species. 1:19:55.720 --> 1:19:58.320 So we're creating open source tools that are free to 1:19:58.360 --> 1:20:01.960 the conservation world. As we unlocked primordial germs, hell derivation 1:20:02.040 --> 1:20:04.599 and editing, we'll just give that to the California contour 1:20:04.720 --> 1:20:07.360 people or will help support it ourselves. 1:20:07.720 --> 1:20:10.880 When I'm having when when I'm talking about with with 1:20:11.120 --> 1:20:17.840 friends about colossal uh, I never use this term, but 1:20:18.439 --> 1:20:24.400 in explaining it immediately everybody says, oh, Jurrassic Park. Yeah. 1:20:24.479 --> 1:20:26.439 The fact that we're an hour into this and this 1:20:26.479 --> 1:20:27.920 is the first time it came up might be a 1:20:28.000 --> 1:20:28.760 world I've. 1:20:30.360 --> 1:20:32.400 Been holding my tongue and I'm not bringing it up 1:20:32.439 --> 1:20:34.400 to have that conversation, but I am bringing up to 1:20:34.400 --> 1:20:40.640 do this. We We talked about mingus. Oh, did you 1:20:40.640 --> 1:20:42.800 want to say more about holding your tongue? No, No, 1:20:42.840 --> 1:20:44.679 I I just been wanting to say that word. 1:20:44.840 --> 1:20:47.080 I can Trassic park. 1:20:47.120 --> 1:20:50.920 Well, I'm gonna all right. Please please If you don't 1:20:50.960 --> 1:20:53.000 like my approach, no, I am not to answer it. 1:20:53.080 --> 1:20:55.479 I'm I'm I'm following along. I thought we were just 1:20:55.479 --> 1:20:56.120 going to dig in. 1:20:56.640 --> 1:20:58.800 No, we're going We're going right now. I'm following a 1:20:58.800 --> 1:21:02.559 part of it. We talked about mingus, where we go 1:21:03.040 --> 1:21:06.920 pluck blood from mingus. We talked about a marine mammal, 1:21:06.960 --> 1:21:10.280 an imperiled marine mammal, where you go and just shoot it, 1:21:10.360 --> 1:21:12.400 get a plug out of it, like some kind of 1:21:12.439 --> 1:21:16.479 little surgical thing that you fire from a blowgun or 1:21:16.520 --> 1:21:19.639 a drone or whatever, and get a little thing plug, 1:21:19.640 --> 1:21:22.920 a hide off them, and you got that so living. 1:21:24.280 --> 1:21:26.920 We talked about what we have when we find a 1:21:27.000 --> 1:21:31.680 frozen you know, come thawing out of the permafrost, A 1:21:32.120 --> 1:21:35.160 mammoth that may be froze within hours of death or 1:21:35.200 --> 1:21:39.760 within days of death, has been frozen ever since, right, 1:21:39.840 --> 1:21:43.040 and we get it, and you'd still see like blood 1:21:43.080 --> 1:21:46.600 clots where something bit it, and you see what it 1:21:46.760 --> 1:21:50.479 ate last and it's still got vegetation in its teeth, right, 1:21:52.880 --> 1:21:55.559 But what happens when we get back to the t rex? 1:21:56.800 --> 1:22:01.080 Like what don't you have and what is the likelihood 1:22:01.080 --> 1:22:02.000 you'd ever find it? 1:22:02.360 --> 1:22:04.400 Well, the first thing we don't have is an interest 1:22:04.439 --> 1:22:05.320 in dinosaurs. 1:22:05.400 --> 1:22:08.720 Just okay, I mean I don't mean you, I don't 1:22:08.760 --> 1:22:11.640 mean a collective week what would stop somebody. 1:22:11.600 --> 1:22:13.760 Just like a big donor comes down? 1:22:14.080 --> 1:22:17.960 Okay, Yeah, I just be like, yeah, human understanding of course, 1:22:18.040 --> 1:22:21.200 like what is not don't I know something's not there? 1:22:21.240 --> 1:22:22.040 But what is not there? 1:22:22.040 --> 1:22:24.479 We don't have DNA okay, and just don't. 1:22:24.840 --> 1:22:28.160 So even if you know, typically most of the dinosaur 1:22:28.200 --> 1:22:30.200 specimens we would uncover our fossils. 1:22:30.280 --> 1:22:33.280 So those are rocks that took the place. 1:22:33.320 --> 1:22:36.519 Of a bone, right, So there's no DNA in that rock, 1:22:37.479 --> 1:22:40.120 so you can't even sequence it if you were to 1:22:40.200 --> 1:22:44.440 find a very well preserved sixty five million year old specimen. 1:22:45.080 --> 1:22:46.880 Time is still an enemy UV and. 1:22:46.840 --> 1:22:52.080 Temperature and bacteria contamination is still an enemy to DNA integrity. 1:22:52.439 --> 1:22:55.320 So even if when we talk about nineteen thirty six, 1:22:55.600 --> 1:22:59.000 we talked about highly degraded DNA, it takes incredible amounts 1:22:59.040 --> 1:23:03.040 of genomic sequencing, and so much brute force to sequence 1:23:03.040 --> 1:23:04.840 that over and over. If you think about over time, 1:23:05.240 --> 1:23:08.760 DNA starts as a single strand, just as an oversimplification 1:23:09.240 --> 1:23:11.639 starts as a single strand over time, it just cuts 1:23:11.680 --> 1:23:13.479 in half once, cuts in half twice, and it just 1:23:13.520 --> 1:23:14.759 that process repeats. 1:23:14.920 --> 1:23:16.000 So you go from maybe in. 1:23:16.000 --> 1:23:18.679 Nineteen thirty six we had a five hundred piece puzzle 1:23:18.760 --> 1:23:22.280 that we had to use artificial intelligence and computational biology 1:23:22.360 --> 1:23:23.920 to put back in order to. 1:23:23.880 --> 1:23:24.639 Make that puzzle. 1:23:25.160 --> 1:23:27.160 If you go back sixty five million years ago, it 1:23:27.200 --> 1:23:29.599 might be a five trillion piece puzzle. 1:23:30.080 --> 1:23:30.880 You just have dust. 1:23:31.080 --> 1:23:35.400 Yeah, it's so hard. The other side of it is 1:23:35.439 --> 1:23:37.960 we don't actually have a reference gam so you'll hear 1:23:38.040 --> 1:23:41.320 us talk about reference genomes a lot of a living relative. 1:23:41.640 --> 1:23:43.519 One of the ways that we solve those puzzles when 1:23:43.560 --> 1:23:46.479 we have these highly degraded DNA samples is we find 1:23:46.479 --> 1:23:49.479 something that's closely related and we go, oh, so it's 1:23:49.520 --> 1:23:50.680 sort of like a cheat sheet. You know what the 1:23:50.680 --> 1:23:53.000 puzzle should look like. So you know, oh, well the 1:23:53.040 --> 1:23:54.960 green sections up here, so I'm going to put this 1:23:55.000 --> 1:23:56.880 over here. And that's what the AI is doing, and 1:23:56.920 --> 1:24:00.240 the computational biologist they're working on with dinosaur is that 1:24:00.320 --> 1:24:01.719 just doesn't doesn't exist. 1:24:02.000 --> 1:24:06.960 So this is not acknowledging that this is not your 1:24:06.960 --> 1:24:08.720 area of folks. I mean, this is not a thing 1:24:08.760 --> 1:24:10.439 that's good. This is not a problem that's going to 1:24:10.479 --> 1:24:11.040 be overcome. 1:24:12.120 --> 1:24:13.599 No, not not. 1:24:13.680 --> 1:24:17.360 Tried looking for dino blood in mosquitoes preserved amber and 1:24:17.360 --> 1:24:19.719 then using the DNA of a West African tree frog 1:24:19.800 --> 1:24:20.559 to splice it in. 1:24:21.240 --> 1:24:22.080 And what was that? 1:24:22.160 --> 1:24:25.120 A loosing uh you know, you give them a loosinge dependency. 1:24:25.160 --> 1:24:28.679 Doctor Henry Wu figured all that out under the tutelage 1:24:28.720 --> 1:24:29.400 of John Hammond. 1:24:29.560 --> 1:24:32.320 I think Beth Shapiro from our team has actually shown 1:24:32.360 --> 1:24:34.440 that ambers are really poor. 1:24:35.800 --> 1:24:40.280 To good actually looked. 1:24:40.040 --> 1:24:42.120 Into it, which is amazing. I think that's why she's 1:24:42.160 --> 1:24:43.000 so so cool. 1:24:43.000 --> 1:24:45.439 But so people can put that out of their minds. 1:24:45.560 --> 1:24:47.120 Take it out of your mind in. 1:24:47.040 --> 1:24:47.720 The case. 1:24:49.800 --> 1:24:54.800 It's you know, they're that the plight of that little 1:24:54.840 --> 1:24:57.920 marine mammal is tied to fishing practices. 1:24:58.280 --> 1:24:59.559 Well do you know about this thing? 1:25:00.200 --> 1:25:00.439 Yeah? 1:25:00.520 --> 1:25:02.599 I was so embarrassed you showed me pic. I never 1:25:03.360 --> 1:25:05.680 even heard of the son of a Bitch. I looked 1:25:05.720 --> 1:25:07.360 at the picture and I've never seen it. 1:25:07.439 --> 1:25:10.120 Oh, I mean, yeah, there's a lot of Yeah, that's 1:25:10.160 --> 1:25:14.040 what a lot of people can't say, eat, live, and breathe, 1:25:14.240 --> 1:25:17.000 but they live and breathe. That animal I've never heard of. 1:25:17.200 --> 1:25:18.759 It's clocks ticks. 1:25:18.640 --> 1:25:21.599 The world's most dandered mareen mammal, and it is, you know, 1:25:21.720 --> 1:25:25.040 like anime level charisma. Right, It's one of the cutest 1:25:25.040 --> 1:25:26.920 things you'll ever see in your life. 1:25:28.240 --> 1:25:31.160 But you know, like if if I were in your 1:25:31.240 --> 1:25:34.880 shoes and you're like, okay, we have it in the 1:25:35.280 --> 1:25:40.200 in the bank, what there's no point in bringing it 1:25:40.240 --> 1:25:43.000 back right now until these fishing practices change. 1:25:43.040 --> 1:25:44.960 No, But that's the beauty of biobanking, is the idea 1:25:45.000 --> 1:25:47.720 is we need to take snapshots today, what is the 1:25:47.720 --> 1:25:51.040 biodiversity that exists, and not just the Noah's ark of 1:25:51.080 --> 1:25:51.679 one by one. 1:25:51.720 --> 1:25:53.280 We don't need one male and one female. 1:25:53.320 --> 1:25:57.040 We need the largest population representation we can get. Unfortunately, 1:25:57.280 --> 1:26:00.599 with this species of akida, there's only thirteen. But ideally 1:26:00.640 --> 1:26:03.680 somebody could go out and get thirteen, all thirteen biobanked, 1:26:03.680 --> 1:26:06.000 and that would give us the opportunity that if in 1:26:06.320 --> 1:26:09.320 ten twenty one hundred, one thousand years we finally figured 1:26:09.320 --> 1:26:12.519 out all of the you know, socio political pressures that 1:26:12.560 --> 1:26:15.880 are driving the extinction of the species, then it could 1:26:15.880 --> 1:26:17.160 be resored, which is amazing. 1:26:17.680 --> 1:26:22.680 But the human the conundrum right is like if you 1:26:22.800 --> 1:26:25.560 have that approach of like, okay, we got on biobanked, 1:26:26.400 --> 1:26:29.360 these people aren't going to change, We'll wait till it changes. 1:26:29.880 --> 1:26:32.479 Will it change with the absence of that animal? 1:26:32.840 --> 1:26:34.599 I think similar to what we're talking about the DOTO, 1:26:34.680 --> 1:26:37.559 it actually provides an inspiration to accelerate the change and 1:26:37.600 --> 1:26:40.360 push you know, we talked about the moral hazard a lot, 1:26:40.400 --> 1:26:42.880 which is this idea that if we have a technology 1:26:43.040 --> 1:26:46.680 that can mean extinction is not forever, will people care 1:26:46.760 --> 1:26:47.639 less about extinction? 1:26:47.880 --> 1:26:49.160 Oh yeah, I we'll get to you later. 1:26:49.439 --> 1:26:49.840 Yeah yeah. 1:26:49.960 --> 1:26:53.560 But my argument is they're already doing that, right. The 1:26:53.960 --> 1:26:57.240 level of care about the biodiversity loss is shockingly low. 1:26:57.680 --> 1:26:59.960 So we need to figure out tools to make sure 1:27:00.080 --> 1:27:03.479 that we can begin to reverse extinctions because nobody else cares. 1:27:03.600 --> 1:27:05.440 And I know that's a. 1:27:05.240 --> 1:27:08.720 Very broad statement, but to be fair, the amount of 1:27:08.760 --> 1:27:12.280 investment that goes into conservation is just we should all 1:27:12.320 --> 1:27:14.600 be ashamed. You know, the Pulse And Institute did this 1:27:14.680 --> 1:27:18.639 amazing research study into conservation, spending a couple of years 1:27:18.680 --> 1:27:22.760 back and what they found is that on average, annually, 1:27:22.880 --> 1:27:26.719 between philanthropy and government spending on the conservation of endangered 1:27:26.760 --> 1:27:29.519 species the globe globally, we spend about one hundred and 1:27:29.560 --> 1:27:34.040 seventy five billion dollars a year. They also did an 1:27:34.120 --> 1:27:36.680 estimate of what would the investment take to stop the 1:27:36.720 --> 1:27:40.120 biodiversity crisis or reverse it, and that's nine hundred billion 1:27:40.160 --> 1:27:43.120 dollars a year, which really, if you think about defense 1:27:43.160 --> 1:27:45.200 spending or some other you know, you can find another 1:27:45.240 --> 1:27:46.320 way to contextualize that. 1:27:46.600 --> 1:27:47.679 It's not a ton of money. 1:27:48.960 --> 1:27:49.200 You know. 1:27:49.520 --> 1:27:51.800 Stefano on my team gave me this amazing quote that 1:27:52.080 --> 1:27:54.320 every year the globe spends four hundred and eighty billion 1:27:54.360 --> 1:27:55.240 dollars on soda. 1:27:57.360 --> 1:27:58.400 What would you rather have? 1:27:58.920 --> 1:28:02.240 Yeah, that's that's not that's not to acknowledge maybe all 1:28:02.240 --> 1:28:06.120 the downstream health care cost right and things like that. 1:28:06.160 --> 1:28:09.280 So it just shows you that unfortunately, the level of 1:28:09.280 --> 1:28:11.240 interest and investment is so low today that I don't 1:28:11.280 --> 1:28:13.599 think the moral hazard is a real value, valid valid 1:28:13.680 --> 1:28:16.160 argument because people do not care enough today. 1:28:16.680 --> 1:28:19.479 If you had, I was gonna say, if you want 1:28:19.479 --> 1:28:22.360 to get hunters interested, you need to look into the 1:28:22.400 --> 1:28:24.639 Irish Elk put that on your list. 1:28:25.160 --> 1:28:27.879 So I've got to get bod get behind that one. 1:28:28.600 --> 1:28:30.080 I've got just to get a look at one. 1:28:30.160 --> 1:28:34.080 I've got this dream list going and yeah, if you 1:28:34.120 --> 1:28:36.720 could do anything in the world for me, it's not dinosaurs, 1:28:36.760 --> 1:28:39.280 it is it's ungulates. That's where I found my passion 1:28:39.720 --> 1:28:42.840 for for conservation, primarily in Africa. But you know Irish 1:28:42.880 --> 1:28:45.320 elk Is, you know you look at a twelve foot 1:28:45.479 --> 1:28:49.439 span of vantler, right, like just insane, so tall and 1:28:49.479 --> 1:28:52.000 so big that when the force started growing and they 1:28:52.120 --> 1:28:53.880 they that's what was pushing them out of their habite 1:28:53.880 --> 1:28:57.360 because they couldn't even fit between trees, like just an amazing. 1:28:57.000 --> 1:28:58.679 The shed hunting world would just poof. 1:28:58.720 --> 1:29:13.519 They let me hit you with the one here, uh, 1:29:13.880 --> 1:29:16.679 because we would Brody mentioned like, why not go focus 1:29:16.720 --> 1:29:21.840 on Siberian tigers? Okay, so let's talk about Siberian tigers 1:29:21.840 --> 1:29:26.839 from it. How many are there? Roughly less than a thousand? 1:29:26.880 --> 1:29:28.519 Correct, Yeah, it's easily. 1:29:29.360 --> 1:29:38.240 So let's say you did cultivate a population and you 1:29:38.320 --> 1:29:40.160 and you worked up where you got a dozen of 1:29:40.160 --> 1:29:46.080 them cloned Siberian tigers. Could you ever get so comfortable 1:29:46.960 --> 1:29:52.519 with what you'd created that you would not as that 1:29:52.760 --> 1:29:58.479 you would cut them loose and let them integrate into 1:29:58.479 --> 1:30:03.240 that population in breeding. Yes, you could. You could get 1:30:03.280 --> 1:30:05.840 so you could get comfortable that you weren't having some 1:30:05.960 --> 1:30:10.639 reticence that like, dude, I don't know, maybe there's something 1:30:10.680 --> 1:30:13.080 I'm not seeing and this is going to be the 1:30:13.640 --> 1:30:14.880 final death knell. 1:30:15.160 --> 1:30:18.400 And relatedly, are you able to fiddle around enough that 1:30:18.439 --> 1:30:21.639 you don't have concerns about genetic bottlenecks if you're bringing 1:30:21.720 --> 1:30:24.400 twelve tigers out of a lab, like you're going in 1:30:24.400 --> 1:30:27.120 there and kind of buzzing around the edges. 1:30:27.160 --> 1:30:29.599 Yeah, because if they're all gone, you know, you talked 1:30:29.600 --> 1:30:32.479 about like like de extinction. If they're all gone, there 1:30:32.560 --> 1:30:35.840 becomes like a what's to lose? Like, you know, if 1:30:36.120 --> 1:30:38.840 if you do the dodo and you want to find 1:30:38.840 --> 1:30:40.880 in appropriate habitat, you do all the work, you put 1:30:40.920 --> 1:30:43.320 dodos out and yeah, like there's a thing you hadn't 1:30:43.320 --> 1:30:45.719 thought of which is totally possible, and it didn't work, 1:30:45.960 --> 1:30:49.080 you'd be like, oh, we didn't have them before, we 1:30:49.120 --> 1:30:51.400 don't have them now, what can we try? But in 1:30:51.439 --> 1:30:53.880 the case, it's like with this question about the Siberian tiger, 1:30:54.080 --> 1:30:57.479 it's like, well, what's to lose. Is we don't know 1:30:57.600 --> 1:31:02.479 yet that there remains a chain ants, so by helping it, 1:31:02.520 --> 1:31:03.479 what's the risk. 1:31:03.320 --> 1:31:06.160 Of Yeah, and I think that risk has to be 1:31:06.160 --> 1:31:08.479 put in context of what is the current risk of extinction? 1:31:08.640 --> 1:31:08.840 Right? 1:31:09.040 --> 1:31:11.360 Just because it is still present doesn't mean it will 1:31:11.400 --> 1:31:13.400 be president in your time. So I think that is 1:31:13.439 --> 1:31:17.040 an important comparison. But not only am I comfortable with it, 1:31:17.080 --> 1:31:18.760 I mean that's my dream, That's why I work here. 1:31:18.800 --> 1:31:20.080 I want to go and find. 1:31:19.800 --> 1:31:22.240 These amazing programs where we can go make a difference 1:31:22.439 --> 1:31:25.240 in that way. But it's also important to note that 1:31:25.240 --> 1:31:28.040 that you know, this is such a thoughtful and long 1:31:28.680 --> 1:31:31.600 process that it's not just like I said earlier, you 1:31:31.640 --> 1:31:33.519 don't just make them and let them lose. We'd have 1:31:33.600 --> 1:31:39.280 to work in concert with NGOs, with government agencies to 1:31:39.360 --> 1:31:43.160 figure out how can we build a reintroduction program that 1:31:43.280 --> 1:31:46.719 allows us to answer all these sort of risk mitigation 1:31:46.840 --> 1:31:49.760 questions before we get to that release point. But yes, 1:31:49.800 --> 1:31:53.040 one hundred percent, my goal in life is that before 1:31:53.120 --> 1:31:56.080 I die, I want to see an endangered species saved 1:31:56.120 --> 1:31:57.080 by this technology. 1:31:57.280 --> 1:32:01.400 Not save, not de extinct, but preventing extinction. 1:32:01.439 --> 1:32:03.680 No, I mean for us, it's both you know, we 1:32:04.040 --> 1:32:07.320 view the extinction as a conservation tool and I think 1:32:07.400 --> 1:32:09.439 you know, I can see ways that we can fix 1:32:09.479 --> 1:32:12.320 habitats using the extinction from lost species, and that we 1:32:12.360 --> 1:32:15.200 can save currently imperiled populations of animals. 1:32:15.640 --> 1:32:18.920 Knowing what you now know, did they do the right 1:32:19.000 --> 1:32:23.280 thing on the Florida panther or like we had current technologies, 1:32:24.240 --> 1:32:27.160 would you have approached the Florida panther question differently? 1:32:27.840 --> 1:32:30.640 I mean, using today's tools, we could have done it 1:32:30.680 --> 1:32:32.760 differently and you wouldn't need to go to Texas to 1:32:32.800 --> 1:32:37.280 get more expensively. And this is an amazing toolkit we're building. 1:32:37.280 --> 1:32:39.400 And this goes back to that northern white rhino example. 1:32:39.840 --> 1:32:42.240 Is one of the things we're doing. And this should 1:32:42.240 --> 1:32:45.080 be right up Hunter's Alleys right is we're going back 1:32:45.120 --> 1:32:48.200 into people's private collections. We're going back into museum collections 1:32:48.200 --> 1:32:51.400 and understanding if you hunted a northern white rhino in 1:32:51.439 --> 1:32:54.519 the fifties, sixties, eighties, whatever it was, and you have 1:32:54.640 --> 1:32:57.400 this specimen, we want to sequence it. We want to 1:32:57.439 --> 1:32:59.479 go in and we want to figure out what was 1:32:59.479 --> 1:33:02.519 the genetic diversity representative of this species before it became 1:33:02.560 --> 1:33:07.000 extremely bottlenecked, functionally extinct and now we have twelve lines 1:33:07.040 --> 1:33:10.439 of Northern white rhinos, so essentially you only have twelve 1:33:10.439 --> 1:33:11.560 founders for the population. 1:33:12.439 --> 1:33:13.560 When we talk about. 1:33:13.320 --> 1:33:15.920 Florida panther, it was a a couple hundred and they 1:33:15.920 --> 1:33:19.240 were so inbred, so it tells you that there's a 1:33:19.280 --> 1:33:21.320 really low level. But what we can do is take 1:33:21.360 --> 1:33:23.200 those twelve lines and leave them sort of what we 1:33:23.280 --> 1:33:26.639 call wild type, and then start to use the genetic 1:33:26.680 --> 1:33:30.639 diversity information we found from those samples and edit that 1:33:30.720 --> 1:33:34.439 diversity back in, so we're actually artificially building more founder 1:33:34.520 --> 1:33:37.679 representation into the population. So that's what's happening right now 1:33:37.720 --> 1:33:40.000 for us with Northern white rhino. That's our key role 1:33:40.000 --> 1:33:42.760 in that project. We're going to Mauritius to talk about 1:33:42.800 --> 1:33:46.000 doing this with pink pigeons, which were a highly bottlenecked 1:33:46.400 --> 1:33:49.439 population that went extinct in the wild, and now we're 1:33:49.439 --> 1:33:51.640 looking at where else could we apply that. So for 1:33:51.720 --> 1:33:54.479 the Florida panther question, we could have done the same thing, 1:33:55.080 --> 1:33:57.800 or we could just go into the western cougar and 1:33:57.880 --> 1:34:01.360 identify what parts of of the genome would be most 1:34:01.360 --> 1:34:05.439 impactful back So without taking all of the Western cougar 1:34:05.479 --> 1:34:07.640 and mixing it in, you could take pieces of it 1:34:07.680 --> 1:34:10.160 and be more deliberate or intentional about what you want 1:34:10.200 --> 1:34:14.320 to do. Obviously that's more high tech and science y, 1:34:14.560 --> 1:34:17.519 so it becomes more expensive than just translocating western cougars, 1:34:17.520 --> 1:34:20.080 but it is a way to sort of, I think, 1:34:20.120 --> 1:34:23.880 answer some of the concerns about are you diluting an 1:34:23.960 --> 1:34:25.960 endemic subpopulation. 1:34:26.640 --> 1:34:33.200 And is there any temptation to alter these gene sequences, 1:34:33.240 --> 1:34:37.840 like to find these like Jurassic Park type ways of being, Like, oh, 1:34:38.000 --> 1:34:42.160 instead of like eradicating all the rats, can we make 1:34:42.240 --> 1:34:47.640 it so that ground nesting bird doesn't smell. Yeah, like 1:34:47.760 --> 1:34:50.839 to where the rats don't even see the nest because 1:34:50.880 --> 1:34:51.519 they can't. 1:34:51.640 --> 1:34:55.559 So we just announced this amazing project a couple weeks ago, 1:34:55.560 --> 1:34:59.040 I think. And so there's this A species in Australia 1:34:59.040 --> 1:35:01.880 comes from the Northern Ratory of Australia called the Northern 1:35:01.960 --> 1:35:05.280 quall quoll. It's a dazzy year it so it's closely 1:35:05.320 --> 1:35:09.960 related to Tasmanian devils. Years and years ago, cane toads 1:35:10.160 --> 1:35:14.400 marine toads were introduced to Australia as some attempt to 1:35:14.400 --> 1:35:16.880 control other invasives and just became an invasive in and 1:35:16.920 --> 1:35:23.760 of themselves, right, cane toads excrete buffotoxin boufotoxin. You know, 1:35:23.960 --> 1:35:26.840 so these are animals native to South America. Boufotoxin is 1:35:27.400 --> 1:35:30.360 a neurotoxin that kills animals that do not have a 1:35:30.479 --> 1:35:32.719 resistance to it. So when the cane toad was introduced 1:35:32.760 --> 1:35:36.040 to Australia, it really impacted the coal because it's a 1:35:36.240 --> 1:35:40.799 perfect size and sort of niche for the coal to predate, 1:35:41.200 --> 1:35:44.080 and when the qualls predate on them, they eventually die, 1:35:44.360 --> 1:35:46.519 and so it's really impacting the population. So what we're 1:35:46.520 --> 1:35:49.840 doing sort of in that same light is we've identified 1:35:50.160 --> 1:35:54.120 that animals that co evolved with the buffotad marine toad 1:35:54.280 --> 1:35:59.920 in South America actually have this natural resistance to that toxin. 1:36:00.360 --> 1:36:01.880 And as it turns out, it's a very simple that 1:36:01.920 --> 1:36:05.479 it's like one base pair change. So we're we just 1:36:05.479 --> 1:36:08.000 announced that we are going and making that change in 1:36:08.479 --> 1:36:12.280 northern coal lines so that we can release those genetically 1:36:12.400 --> 1:36:15.160 edited quill back into the Northern territory. And that that's 1:36:15.200 --> 1:36:17.160 amazing because it does two things. It saves the northern 1:36:17.200 --> 1:36:21.080 qual from this imminent extinction, which almost certain extinction, and 1:36:21.120 --> 1:36:24.719 they can start those kill down there. A nature based 1:36:24.720 --> 1:36:27.160 way to remove an invasive space. So it's you know, 1:36:27.280 --> 1:36:29.040 it's so exciting, and I think that is so to 1:36:29.080 --> 1:36:31.360 your question, yeah, we want to continue to find solutions 1:36:31.360 --> 1:36:31.679 like that. 1:36:31.920 --> 1:36:36.760 Wow, are there regulatory hurdles on that one? 1:36:37.360 --> 1:36:38.559 People got to be freaking out. 1:36:38.680 --> 1:36:41.160 I mean we talk about there's a big fear about 1:36:41.200 --> 1:36:45.400 genetically modified organistness, right, and I think there is also. 1:36:45.640 --> 1:36:48.160 A I got news for everybody, you're eating them? 1:36:48.200 --> 1:36:48.799 Yeah, exactly. 1:36:48.880 --> 1:36:50.160 That was going to be what I was gonna say, 1:36:50.200 --> 1:36:55.120 is I think anybody vacation and like Florida, right, and 1:36:55.160 --> 1:36:58.040 it's like you see helicopters spray and stuff everywhere. 1:36:58.280 --> 1:36:59.599 Yeah, chemicals are much worse. 1:36:59.640 --> 1:37:01.360 So yeah, right, and you're like, do you want that 1:37:01.880 --> 1:37:07.600 or do you want Well, that's three choices. Get absolutely 1:37:07.640 --> 1:37:12.920 eaten live by mosquitoes, have them aerial sprayed everywhere, or 1:37:13.400 --> 1:37:16.720 you can have a genetically modified mosquito in there that 1:37:17.880 --> 1:37:20.960 makes everybody uh male right, yep, males don't. 1:37:21.400 --> 1:37:22.559 Yeah, that would be one way to do it. 1:37:22.600 --> 1:37:24.800 But you know, I think to your point, there's an 1:37:24.840 --> 1:37:28.280 unwillingness to acknowledge that we have been domesticating our dogs, 1:37:28.320 --> 1:37:32.479 We've been domesticating our agriculture crops for tens of thousands 1:37:32.520 --> 1:37:34.800 of years, right, Like, that's sort of what we've done. 1:37:35.200 --> 1:37:38.640 That tomato that you eat every day isn't representative of 1:37:38.680 --> 1:37:40.920 what a tomato really is. That's what we've made it. 1:37:41.280 --> 1:37:44.639 But we did it through traditionally, through you know, artificial selection, 1:37:44.880 --> 1:37:46.840 back breeding, cross breeding, things like you know, sort of 1:37:46.840 --> 1:37:49.839 that Mendelian idea of genetics. If we like this phoenotype 1:37:49.840 --> 1:37:50.960 in this one, we're going to breed them and see 1:37:50.960 --> 1:37:53.040 what happens. We're doing the same thing. We're trying to 1:37:53.080 --> 1:37:56.360 get this gene from that target that we like, but 1:37:56.400 --> 1:37:58.200 we're just going to do it in an accelerated way 1:37:58.240 --> 1:37:59.640 in a lab. So we're still going to pull the 1:37:59.680 --> 1:38:01.400 same gen and put it in there as you would 1:38:01.760 --> 1:38:04.479 might achieve through selective breeding, but we're going to do 1:38:04.520 --> 1:38:11.360 it much faster and with fewer maybe unintended consequences. 1:38:11.439 --> 1:38:16.080 And isn't there an example of a species of zebra 1:38:16.520 --> 1:38:20.719 that they the quaga, that they brought back by doing 1:38:20.760 --> 1:38:23.519 sort of the Mendelian you pick out. 1:38:23.439 --> 1:38:25.080 There there's two efforts underway. 1:38:25.120 --> 1:38:29.679 So the quaga, which is is a closely related zebra 1:38:29.760 --> 1:38:32.799 and sort of it's very phenotypically different, has no stripes, 1:38:32.840 --> 1:38:36.320 it's like more brown, it's about it and the ROC 1:38:36.439 --> 1:38:39.040 from Europe. Right, there are two efforts to use back 1:38:39.080 --> 1:38:42.280 breeding to do that, and they're making headway, and they 1:38:42.320 --> 1:38:46.280 can do so with much less fanfare and and maybe 1:38:46.280 --> 1:38:49.640 criticism because people are really comfortable with breeding. 1:38:49.360 --> 1:38:51.760 Because it looks like what people were doing, yeah, tens 1:38:51.840 --> 1:38:52.720 of thousands of years ago. 1:38:52.720 --> 1:38:54.840 But the process, when you really get down to it, 1:38:54.880 --> 1:38:57.200 if you really want to oversimplify, is essentially the same. 1:38:57.240 --> 1:39:01.360 You're targeting very specific phenotypes in instead, we're figuring out 1:39:01.360 --> 1:39:04.599 what gene makes a phenotype and then we're trying to 1:39:04.960 --> 1:39:07.400 get that to be expressed in our line of interest, 1:39:07.439 --> 1:39:09.839 so we can do it much faster, and. 1:39:09.720 --> 1:39:10.920 I think that's much intention more. 1:39:11.120 --> 1:39:14.000 Probably what scares people though, like without leaning too far 1:39:14.040 --> 1:39:17.519 into like the paranoia and conspiracy theory thing, like it's like, 1:39:18.479 --> 1:39:23.200 who's making sure they're not going too far with this, right, yeah. 1:39:23.040 --> 1:39:25.400 Or in the case of the tiger, right, and it's 1:39:25.400 --> 1:39:28.080 like somebody in labs like, but we want them a 1:39:28.080 --> 1:39:30.400 little more pissed off. 1:39:30.760 --> 1:39:32.800 But I think that's why, you know, we invite the 1:39:32.840 --> 1:39:36.280 regulatory environment. We want to be the subject matter expert 1:39:36.280 --> 1:39:39.760 that builds those guardrails, because frankly, there are very few 1:39:39.760 --> 1:39:42.000 people in the world that understand the true power of 1:39:42.000 --> 1:39:43.439 this technology more than. 1:39:43.320 --> 1:39:44.919 The people at Colossal. 1:39:45.240 --> 1:39:47.360 So we need to sit down with the world leading 1:39:47.520 --> 1:39:51.160 experts in ethics and regulation to say, this is how 1:39:51.200 --> 1:39:53.160 we think we can use this, and here's how we 1:39:53.200 --> 1:39:55.719 think it could probably go wrong, right, and let's build 1:39:55.720 --> 1:39:59.439 a guardrail that keeps us on this path. Because when 1:39:59.439 --> 1:40:01.840 we have this first breakthrough, when we blow all your 1:40:01.880 --> 1:40:04.639 minds with this first restored spaces from extinction, we won't 1:40:04.640 --> 1:40:05.799 be the only show anymore. 1:40:06.120 --> 1:40:08.479 And then Pandora's box is wide open. 1:40:08.560 --> 1:40:11.080 And luckily we'll be light years ahead of it and 1:40:11.080 --> 1:40:13.599 anybody else. But somebody else can start to work from 1:40:13.640 --> 1:40:14.880 the same foundation that we built. 1:40:15.040 --> 1:40:15.439 Mm hmm. 1:40:16.080 --> 1:40:18.800 So we need responsible regulation and I want it for me. 1:40:18.960 --> 1:40:20.720 The only way I could ever achieve my dream of 1:40:20.720 --> 1:40:24.200 putting a restored spaces back into the wild or preventing 1:40:24.200 --> 1:40:27.240 an extinction is to have really strong regulation that invites 1:40:27.280 --> 1:40:28.120 that type of work. 1:40:28.400 --> 1:40:32.400 Yeah, you're a You're in an interesting position of when 1:40:32.439 --> 1:40:37.080 it comes to policy and legislation, you're in the interesting 1:40:37.120 --> 1:40:39.880 position of needing to point out what it is. 1:40:40.080 --> 1:40:42.040 Yeah, like you'd be like, like. 1:40:42.200 --> 1:40:43.880 Hear me out. I'm gonna tell you about a thing 1:40:45.000 --> 1:40:47.479 we're figuring out how to do that you're probably not 1:40:47.560 --> 1:40:49.599 aware of. And then I'm gonna tell you some things 1:40:49.600 --> 1:40:52.519 that you might want to do in order to get 1:40:52.560 --> 1:40:54.759 your hands around the thing. I'm gonna tell you exactly. 1:40:54.920 --> 1:40:57.240 Yeah, And that's why you've said I don't if if 1:40:57.240 --> 1:40:58.960 you've looked into us a bit, you know, one of 1:40:58.960 --> 1:41:01.559 the one of the groups that invested in Colossal Is 1:41:02.400 --> 1:41:05.120 is the venture capital Alarm of the intelligence community here 1:41:05.120 --> 1:41:07.200 in the US, because they want to understand more of 1:41:07.240 --> 1:41:09.320 that so we we can work in concert and show 1:41:09.320 --> 1:41:13.040 them sort of what are the capabilities of today and 1:41:13.040 --> 1:41:14.920 and so that's why they've invested in US, because they 1:41:14.960 --> 1:41:17.479 understand that it's also important to national security that the 1:41:17.560 --> 1:41:20.880 United States leads this effort. If we're not doing it, 1:41:20.880 --> 1:41:22.920 somebody else is doing it, we better be the best 1:41:22.920 --> 1:41:23.200 at it. 1:41:23.880 --> 1:41:25.880 You may put a chimp into outer space, but you 1:41:25.880 --> 1:41:27.240 haven't put a colossal. 1:41:28.000 --> 1:41:32.360 Because if our enemies come out with a psychic war elephant, right, 1:41:33.080 --> 1:41:34.439 they're gonna look at you and be like, well, how 1:41:34.479 --> 1:41:37.240 come out of that a psychic war elephant? You know 1:41:37.280 --> 1:41:38.519 what you know what you know, you'll be you'll be 1:41:38.880 --> 1:41:41.360 pleased to know. I just thought of how to tackle 1:41:41.360 --> 1:41:42.200 the dinosaur deal. 1:41:42.520 --> 1:41:43.720 Oh great, let's hear it. 1:41:43.920 --> 1:41:48.960 Check it out. Everybody now knows that, like, uh, you know, birds, 1:41:49.880 --> 1:41:52.240 people are like, well, dinosaurs didn't really go away because 1:41:52.280 --> 1:41:56.160 some of them became birds. Somewhere deep in that bird's 1:41:56.240 --> 1:42:04.559 blood I mean, yeah, turkey, Maybe a crane somewhere deep 1:42:04.600 --> 1:42:08.360 in that turkey is probably the secret of what you're 1:42:08.360 --> 1:42:10.160 looking for. Deep in his blood. 1:42:10.160 --> 1:42:14.320 All of Steve's best ideas begin with everybody knows X, 1:42:14.720 --> 1:42:18.040 but deep down in his blood, I mean the blood 1:42:18.080 --> 1:42:20.600 in the middle of his heart. 1:42:20.040 --> 1:42:21.439 And we might have just been looking at the wrong 1:42:21.720 --> 1:42:25.200 part of the aim is probably some clue. Have you 1:42:25.240 --> 1:42:28.599 seen a watson? Watson, Watson. It's a South American beard 1:42:28.640 --> 1:42:30.160 that looks like a tiny velociraptor. 1:42:31.000 --> 1:42:32.800 That might even better than a crane. 1:42:32.840 --> 1:42:34.960 Yeah, that might be where it's there. They're terrifying looking. 1:42:35.000 --> 1:42:36.799 They have little claws on their wings. 1:42:36.840 --> 1:42:37.200 Well they do. 1:42:38.120 --> 1:42:40.559 I like the fact that nature has sort of put 1:42:40.640 --> 1:42:45.280 up a roadblock according to you, that is going to 1:42:45.360 --> 1:42:48.799 hopefully prevent us from doing what you're talking about. 1:42:49.479 --> 1:42:51.080 Too far back, too far back. 1:42:51.320 --> 1:42:54.880 Yeah, or that its just and to me in a way, 1:42:55.479 --> 1:42:57.120 like I've said this for a long time, I get 1:42:57.160 --> 1:42:59.360 a lot of like frowned and like weird looks, and 1:42:59.400 --> 1:43:03.280 I say it, But extinction if it happened way back then, 1:43:04.240 --> 1:43:05.880 we lost all these species. 1:43:05.960 --> 1:43:07.120 It was a crazy place. 1:43:07.160 --> 1:43:09.680 It was a very diverse world, and then all of 1:43:09.680 --> 1:43:12.799 a sudden, like something hits the Earth and it changes, 1:43:12.880 --> 1:43:16.120 all the shit goes wrong. It would lose everything. But 1:43:16.160 --> 1:43:18.920 look right now or one hundred years ago. Wow, we 1:43:19.000 --> 1:43:22.439 have another very diverse, cool place. And there's nothing to 1:43:22.479 --> 1:43:24.800 say that as bad as we fuck it up in 1:43:24.840 --> 1:43:27.160 the next five hundred to one thousand years and we 1:43:27.240 --> 1:43:30.360 are gone that ten thousand years after that, it won't 1:43:30.400 --> 1:43:31.559 be another beautiful place. 1:43:31.720 --> 1:43:36.000 I look forward to us all being gone, humans all gone, 1:43:36.280 --> 1:43:39.639 and then let millions of years go by and then 1:43:39.720 --> 1:43:44.639 come back and look it'll be cool, like good lord. 1:43:44.800 --> 1:43:46.840 Yeah, I'm certain that they're. 1:43:46.720 --> 1:43:49.320 Gonna put in the bio bank so you can come. 1:43:49.200 --> 1:43:52.080 Back, come back, Ted Williams, just your head, yeah, yeah, 1:43:52.120 --> 1:43:55.920 Ted Williams style. I'm certain that in you know, nature 1:43:56.040 --> 1:43:58.439 and Earth will survive. It just won't be the nature 1:43:58.479 --> 1:44:01.720 of Earth that we know. And we're pretty attached to right, 1:44:01.800 --> 1:44:04.000 so it'd be nice. I think you're a little optimistic 1:44:04.040 --> 1:44:06.160 to think that civilization will last. 1:44:06.040 --> 1:44:07.320 Five hundred or thousand years. 1:44:07.320 --> 1:44:10.240 So at this rate that we're that we're we're chasing 1:44:10.280 --> 1:44:14.000 down biodiversity loss. You know, people think that biodiversity loss 1:44:14.040 --> 1:44:16.360 is only about, you know, the intrinsic value of nature. 1:44:16.800 --> 1:44:19.839 It's important to your food security, your health, you know, everything. 1:44:19.920 --> 1:44:24.360 Without a balance in nature, humanity will not thrive. That's 1:44:24.400 --> 1:44:26.600 why we have people looking at figuring out how to 1:44:26.600 --> 1:44:27.080 go to Mars. 1:44:27.240 --> 1:44:30.760 Yeah, I think that, I mean just our increasing understanding 1:44:30.880 --> 1:44:37.640 of the microbial structure of soil. Yeah, Like, I don't know. 1:44:37.640 --> 1:44:40.120 We talked about Aldo Leopold the other day, his idea 1:44:40.160 --> 1:44:46.320 of of someone that doesn't really understand a watch looking 1:44:46.400 --> 1:44:49.880 at a disassembled watch and being like, I don't see 1:44:49.880 --> 1:44:55.080 what good this part is, right, it's not obvious you 1:44:55.080 --> 1:44:57.400 know that part does, and flick it out. 1:44:57.479 --> 1:45:00.240 And then later be like, god, damn it that I 1:45:00.240 --> 1:45:03.479 think that's the part that does the And we do 1:45:03.560 --> 1:45:06.120 that every day when we say, you know, you know, 1:45:06.880 --> 1:45:09.559 commercial fishing is over fishing our seas and we're seeing 1:45:09.600 --> 1:45:12.439 different you know, sizes of fish or different populations of 1:45:12.439 --> 1:45:14.799 fish out there just because of industrialized fishing. 1:45:15.680 --> 1:45:18.840 You know, we talk about when we are even doing 1:45:19.040 --> 1:45:22.720 you know, development for human housing, we're just digging up 1:45:22.920 --> 1:45:24.920 pieces of land that we got well, nothing that we 1:45:24.960 --> 1:45:26.519 know of today was important there. 1:45:26.880 --> 1:45:27.000 You know. 1:45:27.040 --> 1:45:30.439 A great example to that was there's this this small 1:45:30.439 --> 1:45:34.000 lizard from Australia again in Victoria called the Victoria and 1:45:34.000 --> 1:45:36.639 Grassland early Dragon, and it went extinct in nineteen sixty 1:45:36.720 --> 1:45:39.800 nine and never seen again. And then they were one 1:45:39.840 --> 1:45:43.879 guy was digging up some housing some land in Victoria 1:45:44.160 --> 1:45:46.040 to put up a housing development, had to do an 1:45:46.040 --> 1:45:49.920 ecological survey and they discovered the Victorian Grassland early Dragon 1:45:50.600 --> 1:45:50.960 while they. 1:45:50.880 --> 1:45:56.080 Were destroying its What's great about that is our partners 1:45:56.120 --> 1:45:58.439 at Zoos Victoria and in Australia called us and they said, 1:45:58.479 --> 1:46:01.880 you know, unfortunately the Australian economy is not strong right 1:46:01.920 --> 1:46:05.840 now with all the stagnations stagflation issues down there, and 1:46:06.000 --> 1:46:08.200 they said, unfortunately, there's no money to save this animal. 1:46:08.200 --> 1:46:10.680 We ended up fight, Yeah, we ended up funding it. 1:46:10.960 --> 1:46:13.719 We ended up supporting all the genetics and genemic research 1:46:13.720 --> 1:46:15.960 and Zoos Victoria has done an amazing job, maybe one 1:46:15.960 --> 1:46:18.040 of the best species recovery stories I've ever heard of. 1:46:18.240 --> 1:46:20.800 They're the most prepared. They thought, one day, somebody's gonna 1:46:20.800 --> 1:46:22.799 find this lizard. So they went and found a closely 1:46:22.920 --> 1:46:27.200 related lizard and perfected its husbandry. In the first year 1:46:27.240 --> 1:46:30.400 that we put that animal at Ze's Victoria, they laid 1:46:30.400 --> 1:46:32.479 eggs and now there's we went. Yeah, we went from 1:46:32.520 --> 1:46:35.240 sixteen animals to about seventy or so. 1:46:35.920 --> 1:46:36.240 Yeah. 1:46:36.240 --> 1:46:40.160 So, I mean just amazing, right, absolutely incredible story. And 1:46:40.400 --> 1:46:42.320 I think that's just goes to show you that, you know, 1:46:43.000 --> 1:46:45.559 just because things aren't obvious, you know, there's a lot 1:46:45.600 --> 1:46:47.439 to nature that we don't understand or that we just 1:46:47.520 --> 1:46:50.240 that that you kind of miss and couldn't have these 1:46:50.680 --> 1:46:52.480 insane ripple effects. 1:46:53.360 --> 1:46:56.920 Well that was great, Thank you for coming on. 1:46:57.080 --> 1:46:57.760 Thanks for having me. 1:46:57.800 --> 1:46:59.519 I mean, this is uh you got a lot of 1:46:59.560 --> 1:47:03.040 fans that lass uh yeah, yeah, I'd be remiss if 1:47:03.080 --> 1:47:04.920 I didn't give shout out to our head of animal husbandry, 1:47:04.920 --> 1:47:07.080 Steve Metzler. He's the biggest fan of you guys, so 1:47:07.720 --> 1:47:09.920 he was jealousy couldn't be here. But we really appreciate 1:47:09.960 --> 1:47:12.840 the audience with you and and uh and and and 1:47:12.880 --> 1:47:14.240 getting to share a little bit of what we do. 1:47:14.280 --> 1:47:16.519 We hope we have some exciting updates for you coming up. 1:47:16.680 --> 1:47:18.559 Yeah, I want to. I want to make my final 1:47:18.600 --> 1:47:21.320 clarification here. Like we had we we joked a little 1:47:21.320 --> 1:47:25.360 bit and had some lass about things, right, But I 1:47:25.360 --> 1:47:28.760 I do think that when we had dinner last night, 1:47:29.320 --> 1:47:32.760 we talked about that I used to had this, I 1:47:32.800 --> 1:47:36.759 had the wrong idea that I always saw people justified 1:47:36.760 --> 1:47:41.519 the space race by pointing to Teflon, you know, and 1:47:41.600 --> 1:47:43.760 I was and then someone pointed out tough On didn't 1:47:43.760 --> 1:47:46.880 come from I thought it came from our efforts to 1:47:46.920 --> 1:47:48.720 land on the movie. Either way, I was bringing up 1:47:48.720 --> 1:47:52.200 this idea that you chase a thing, right, and and 1:47:52.520 --> 1:47:55.160 and and and maybe it's not clear why the why 1:47:55.920 --> 1:47:58.000 we have this desire at the time me this desire 1:47:58.040 --> 1:48:00.160 to go to the moon, right, it's kind of what 1:48:00.240 --> 1:48:02.200 are you gonna do when you get there? And it's 1:48:02.200 --> 1:48:05.439 an open question, but it leads you down this path, 1:48:05.560 --> 1:48:08.840 and for us, it led down this path of set 1:48:08.920 --> 1:48:14.960 you know, eventually, satellite technology, internet whatever. It opens up 1:48:15.000 --> 1:48:19.400 all these things. And I do really appreciate in the 1:48:19.439 --> 1:48:24.400 conversations that we've had, I do really appreciate that there's 1:48:24.439 --> 1:48:27.280 this kind of like North Star idea that's very arresting 1:48:28.120 --> 1:48:31.519 about like that we would make a mammoth, right, we 1:48:31.520 --> 1:48:34.439 would de extinct a mammoth, And I appreciate that for 1:48:34.560 --> 1:48:43.200 its It's it's like lunar shot appeal, right, But the 1:48:43.240 --> 1:48:45.840 way in which that, like looking at that north Star, 1:48:46.000 --> 1:48:49.599 the way in which that has created and will continue 1:48:49.640 --> 1:48:55.240 to create strategies and technologies that would be like applicable 1:48:55.320 --> 1:49:00.799 to real world current problems is like it's noteworthy. 1:49:01.000 --> 1:49:02.360 Yep, I agree. 1:49:02.479 --> 1:49:08.280 I'm like, I'm supportive. I'm supportive of the pursuit mostly 1:49:09.040 --> 1:49:11.080 as much as I'd love to see a mammoth. I'm 1:49:11.120 --> 1:49:14.360 supportive of the pursuit because of the all the implications 1:49:14.400 --> 1:49:16.439 that you discussed about ways in which you can be 1:49:16.520 --> 1:49:22.800 currently currently helpful on real problems of species blinking out. 1:49:23.200 --> 1:49:26.040 You know, absolutely the journey is as important as a 1:49:26.120 --> 1:49:28.240 destination in this case, right we are. We are doing 1:49:28.280 --> 1:49:31.280 amazing things along the way. If we ever get to 1:49:31.320 --> 1:49:33.719 the point where we've had so much success that your 1:49:33.800 --> 1:49:37.040 concerns about the destination come into play, We've hit such 1:49:37.040 --> 1:49:39.439 a home run that we have made such a difference 1:49:39.520 --> 1:49:42.280 to the natural world that I think people really understand, 1:49:42.439 --> 1:49:43.480 you know, in retrospect. 1:49:43.760 --> 1:49:45.760 Why this pursuit is so important. 1:49:47.479 --> 1:49:50.400 When it comes time to find out the regulatory structure 1:49:50.439 --> 1:49:54.760 on mammoth haunts. I would appreciate if you guys can 1:49:54.920 --> 1:49:55.400 talk to us. 1:49:55.720 --> 1:49:56.920 Yeah, definitely hope. 1:50:00.040 --> 1:50:02.640 Hunter's orange necessary. 1:50:03.160 --> 1:50:07.160 All right, Matt James, some colossal biosciences. Thanks for coming out, man, 1:50:07.200 --> 1:50:07.800 Thank you so much. 1:50:07.800 --> 1:50:08.559 Guys, appreciate it. 1:50:08.640 --> 1:50:08.960 Thank you. 1:50:18.800 --> 1:50:26.000 It's a fresh instead of eyed. We'll always find more. 1:50:26.920 --> 1:50:33.800 Be crawl down in the car for them on your 1:50:34.000 --> 1:50:46.240 hands and knelt on my being the worm to tell you. 1:50:45.320 --> 1:50:52.080 You don't wrong. But come on, baby, last, not tonight. 1:50:53.600 --> 1:51:00.280 So listen to my song. Honey, I a hot pos 1:51:00.400 --> 1:51:02.719 Sam the pot with you. 1:51:04.560 --> 1:51:11.400 There's nothing that I can do, so feed the flame, Honey. 1:51:11.040 --> 1:51:57.400 I love you. I'm your pusson the hot line, my 1:51:57.560 --> 1:52:01.240 how phossum o you. 1:52:03.320 --> 1:52:10.200 There's nothing el that I can do, Sophia the Flame, Honey. 1:52:09.840 --> 1:52:13.160 I love you. 1:52:13.160 --> 1:52:18.759 You're Pusson. Oh wow, Pusson. 1:52:19.920 --> 1:52:23.799 You don't believe my honey, I'm You're person