1 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: On this episode of News World. Imagine making a movie 2 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: in the middle of a global pandemic, forcing it to 3 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:15,319 Speaker 1: shut down twice, waiting for an actor's strike to end, 4 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: and then hoping people will feel comfortable returning to movie 5 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:23,760 Speaker 1: theaters again. This is what the producers, directors, and actors 6 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: of the Reagan movie endured to bring it to the screen. Reagan, 7 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: starring Dennis Quaid, was released in theaters on August thirtieth, 8 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. 9 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 2: The historical drama. 10 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: Follows President Ronald Reagan's life from his impoverished childhood and 11 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 1: Hollywood stardom to his role as President of. 12 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:43,240 Speaker 2: The United States. 13 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: Reagan is now available to stream on Amazon Prime, YouTube, 14 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: and Apple TV. Reagan film producer Mark Joseph has released 15 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: a new book about the film called Making Reagan, which 16 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: follows the two decade journey to make the film. Mark, 17 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: welcome and thank you for joining me on News World. 18 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 3: Well, thank you for having me, mister speaker. 19 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: So I have to ask you, why did you decide 20 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: that you had to tell Reagan's story. 21 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 3: Well, I begin the book with driving myself in a 22 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 3: minivan with my wife and four young daughters between the 23 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 3: age of one and six. Or something like that. Driving 24 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 3: through Illinois to my cousin's wedding and I'm pulled over 25 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 3: for speeding, and I look at the ticket and it says, 26 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 3: first of all, you must appear in court in person, 27 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 3: because I was caught in a speed trap and I 28 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 3: was so far over the speed limit. But I looked 29 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 3: at the ticket and it said you must appear in Dixon, Illinois, 30 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 3: And I realized for the first time that I was 31 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 3: driving through Ronald Reagan's hometown, unaware of that. But it 32 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 3: left me with having to spend the night in Dixon 33 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 3: to face the judge the next day for this horrific 34 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 3: crime of mine. And I had twenty four hours to 35 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 3: kill in Dixon, and that was the genesis of the 36 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 3: whole idea. But what made me think about a movie 37 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 3: especially was just realizing Dixon is a very very normal place. 38 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 3: All I could see was a holiday in a gas 39 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 3: station at a pizza hut. But it just showed again 40 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 3: where our leaders come from very normal places. Prime ministers 41 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 3: of other countries the job is handed to them by 42 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 3: their father or grandfather, but most of our leaders come 43 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 3: from ordinary places like Dixon. And that was my inspiration. 44 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 1: I've been studying Reagan, working with Reagan, campaign with Reagan, 45 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: actually for about six decades. I was shocked to realize, 46 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: but you have a story I had never heard about 47 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: eleven year old Ronald Reagan. Share with us how decisive 48 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: this was in shaping him. 49 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 3: Paul ken Gore had a book, had a couple of 50 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:58,519 Speaker 3: books that were so interesting. But what really interested me 51 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 3: about ken Gore. I have a friend named Terry Maddingly 52 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 3: who's a religion columnist, and Terry will often say that 53 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 3: religion is often the ghost in people's stories because it 54 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 3: explains things about them. Whether it's Michael Jackson, you know, 55 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 3: wanting to hold onto childhood because he wasn't allowed to 56 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 3: celebrate his birthdays as a kid, or Christmas, or Ronald Reagan. 57 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 3: It's often is an explanation for why people behave, and 58 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 3: in particular with Reagan. Ken Gore had gone to the 59 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 3: church that Reagan grew up in and asked if he 60 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 3: could see the sermons that young Ronald Reagan heard as 61 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 3: a child. Well, the pastor said, amazingly, think of all 62 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 3: the books written on Ronald Reagan, he said, nobody has 63 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 3: ever asked to see them before they're in the basement. 64 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 3: In a box, and so that's where Ken Gore found 65 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 3: all these things, and he found out that Reagan's pastor 66 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 3: was very anti Communist, which explains a lot of Reagan's life. 67 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 3: Reagan was about eleven and a half. I think he 68 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 3: had just found his dad Jack, drunk in the snow, 69 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 3: I think fairly recently. And I think his mother realized, 70 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 3: I've got to give this kid something or he's going 71 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 3: to grow up to be just like dad. And so 72 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 3: she found this book, our hypothesis of pastor gave it 73 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 3: to the mother, but she gives it to her son. 74 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 3: It's called That Printer of You Deell's and it's a 75 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 3: rather unremarkable fiction book written by a religious author, but 76 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 3: it turns out to be a turning point in young 77 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 3: Reagan's life. And the hero of the book is a 78 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 3: young man whose father is an alcoholic, and the young 79 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 3: man finds God and grows up to become amazingly a 80 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 3: United States congressman. And so Reagan reads this book at 81 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 3: eleven and a half and he goes to his mother 82 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 3: and he says, I want to declare my faith and 83 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 3: be baptized. What I couldn't figure out was he couldn't wait. 84 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 3: The pastor said, well, you have to beat to your 85 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 3: twelve in our denomination Disciples of Christ, and he insisted 86 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 3: he had he baptize at eleven and a half, and 87 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 3: he convinced the preacher to do it. That always mystified me, 88 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 3: what's the rush? Can't you wait six months? But that 89 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 3: denomination really equates salvation with baptism, and so I think 90 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 3: in young Ronald Reagan's mind, he couldn't go six months 91 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:01,480 Speaker 3: in this unclear state, and so he wanted to be baptized. 92 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 3: But that really turned his life around, and instead of 93 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 3: becoming a congressman, he goes to Hollywood detours and becomes president. 94 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:11,839 Speaker 1: I had never seen the story before. It does help 95 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: explain a lot. Now, when did you decide you had 96 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: to make the Movie's. 97 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 3: Working at a company called Walden Media. We had done 98 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 3: the Chronicles of Nardia Ray because of when Dixie holes 99 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 3: all these fun movies, and I really wanted to make 100 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 3: it there, but the owner of the company it was 101 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 3: too political for him, and so I realized I had 102 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 3: to kind of leave and develop it on my own. 103 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 3: So that was about the time this incident and Dixon happened, 104 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 3: and I carefully was watching other attempts to make Reagan movies. 105 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 3: And interestingly, Reagan's fans, as you probably know, are incredibly 106 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 3: protective of their man, and so anytime of Hollywood wouldry 107 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 3: to make a movie, they would come out in force 108 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 3: against it, often with reason. They were suspicious of those 109 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 3: of us at Hollywood. And so when James Brolin made 110 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 3: a movie called The Ray Pagan's, they came out against 111 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 3: that one and essentially forced CBS to move it from 112 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:08,719 Speaker 3: Showtime to CBS, and it really didn't do very well. 113 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 3: And then a few years later, Will Ferrell announced that 114 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 3: he was going to make a Reagan movie, and the 115 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 3: whole joke was that Ronald Reagan had Alzheimer's as president 116 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 3: and they had to convince him that he was acting 117 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 3: in a movie to get his job done as president. Well, 118 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 3: this lasted about forty eight hours before poor Will Ferrell 119 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 3: had to pull out of that one, because again Reagan 120 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 3: fans were so vocal. In fact, the reason I know this, 121 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 3: mister speaker, is that our page people thought our Facebook 122 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 3: page was the movie's Facebook page. And I remember somebody 123 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 3: put on our Facebook page. Will Ferrell graduated from such 124 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:42,799 Speaker 3: and such high school. He's in the Wall of fame 125 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 3: at his high school. Please call this number and demand 126 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:46,840 Speaker 3: he be taken off the wall of fame at his 127 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 3: high school. So you can imagine the pressure that poor 128 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 3: Will Ferrell was feeling from Reagan's devotees. So that project 129 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,720 Speaker 3: ended in forty eight hours. Michael Douglasnett was announced as 130 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 3: a Reagan film, but the fans were not happy about that, 131 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 3: So it left the space open to us, and I 132 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 3: think that his fans realized pretty quickly that we weren't 133 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 3: out to destroy him. We were out to just tell 134 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 3: the story fairly. I spent a lot of time with 135 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 3: people that knew President Reagan and Ronald Reagan as governor. 136 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 3: But at the same time, we were also very careful 137 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 3: not to align ourselves with anybody. For instance, the Reagan 138 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 3: Library and Foundation. They were good to us, but we 139 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 3: had no official relationship. They didn't approve of scripts or 140 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 3: anything like that. I wanted the film goer to know 141 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 3: that we had kept the integrity of not being bound 142 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 3: to anybody, but just to tell the story fairly. 143 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 2: Now you're off on your own. How hard was it 144 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 2: to raise the money? 145 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 3: Well, a good chunk of the book is about that process. 146 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 3: It's very interesting between conservatives and liberals. I think it's 147 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 3: fairly obvious that liberals handle media much better and believe 148 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 3: in it. There's a reason that George Soros is involved 149 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 3: in funding sun Dance and different film festivals. He understands 150 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 3: the power of it. So it wasn't like there was 151 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 3: people lining up to fund this venture, and so we 152 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 3: had to do it the old fashioned way. Was really 153 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 3: finding groups, some film related and others that wanted to 154 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 3: get behind it. But it was a long process. But yeah, 155 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 3: as a general rule, I think that the political left 156 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 3: understands how to move public opinion better than the political 157 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 3: right does. I think the political right thinks if I 158 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 3: can just convince you of the correctness of my ideas, 159 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 3: you'll come over, Whereas the political left understands to tell 160 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 3: me a story. And that was something Ronald Reagan understood 161 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 3: very well too. 162 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 2: Of course, were people writing large checks or what was happening. 163 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 3: We had a big range, but we didn't want a crowdfund. 164 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 3: I didn't want to do that. That just did not 165 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 3: seem appropriate for our Reagan story. So it was entities, 166 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 3: individuals and some film related folks, people that know film, 167 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 3: and then we had a credible opportunity with the state 168 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 3: of Oklahoma, which I think about thirty seven percent. They 169 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 3: will give you t rebates at the time, so that 170 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 3: was terrific. We shot in Oklahoma. The governor was very helpful, 171 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 3: but a good chunk of the budget came from those 172 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 3: tax rebates from Oklahoma. 173 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 2: Was there ever a point where you thought this is 174 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:14,439 Speaker 2: just too hard and consider walking. 175 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 3: Off every other day. It shouldn't have taken me nineteen 176 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 3: years to make this movie, but we had so many 177 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 3: delays along the way, and as I talked about in 178 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 3: the book, some funders would pull out, and some people 179 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 3: were just kind of posing as funders and I eventually 180 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 3: would smoke them out. But just the delays we had 181 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 3: along the way. To make a movie, all your stars 182 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 3: have to align. You have to have the talent ready, 183 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,119 Speaker 3: you have to have the financing read of the distribution. 184 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 3: So you can get two or three on board and 185 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 3: one or two are not ready, and so you have 186 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 3: to wait for the other two parts to come to fruition. 187 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 3: So once we sort of had our act together and 188 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 3: we're ready to go, then Covid struck. I was thinking 189 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 3: about George W. Bush that had a book called Decision points, 190 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 3: I think it was, And I had one of those 191 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 3: decision points when COVID struck, and I remember my co 192 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 3: producer John Sullivan came to me, we have a decision 193 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 3: to make. Do we go or not go? And literally, 194 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 3: we began shooting in September of twenty twenty, right in 195 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 3: the smack middle of COVID. Everybody else had the common 196 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 3: sense to wait until it was over. But I remember thinking, 197 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 3: mister speaker that I have friends who were dying around me, literally, 198 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 3: and I thought, how pathetic a creature I would be 199 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 3: if I died almost making this movie. And so I said, 200 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 3: let's go for it. And we don't know what that means. 201 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 3: It cost us about an extra two million dollars just 202 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 3: because of all the precautions that haved be taken. Essentially, 203 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,959 Speaker 3: the set is a medical clinic. Basically every day it's 204 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 3: taking an extra hour or so to get everybody tested 205 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 3: every single day. And then we had COVID breakouts in 206 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 3: the set. So because of the CDC guidelines, anytime one 207 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 3: person got COVID, the entire set had to shut down 208 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 3: for ten days, which of course makes no sense. Normally 209 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 3: you would contact trace it. So we shut down twice 210 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 3: twenty days. We have paid salaries during that time, so 211 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 3: it just made it exceedingly difficult. Then we also because 212 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 3: of that, we were delayed by about eight months because 213 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:05,839 Speaker 3: we couldn't shoot the young Reagan lifeguard scenes. It was 214 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 3: too cold now, so we had to wait to the 215 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 3: following spring to shoot those. And just when you think 216 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 3: we're ready to go, then the actors strike hits, and 217 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:14,719 Speaker 3: so we had about one hundred and eight days of 218 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 3: an actor's strike. In the meantime, I'm carefully monitoring the 219 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,199 Speaker 3: public opinion polls about our people were ready to go 220 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 3: back to theaters, and so that was initially very high 221 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 3: that something like forty percent did not want to go 222 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 3: back to a theater because it was too dangerous. Still, 223 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 3: so I waited till that got done a single digits, 224 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 3: about eight percent before we released the film. Also, I 225 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 3: should mention that Russia Ukraine war even affected us because 226 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 3: we had vendors from some of those countries and we 227 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 3: had to cancel all those contracts. So it was really 228 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 3: one thing after another. 229 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 2: In the middle of all this. 230 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,199 Speaker 1: In order to make a film, you also have to 231 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 1: have a script, and to do that you've got to 232 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: talk to people who knew Reagan. 233 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 2: Yep, So how did that go? 234 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, I spent time with I don't think you and 235 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 3: I intersected, but I spent time with about fifty of 236 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 3: the folks, from Ed Me's to George Schultz. And Ed 237 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:22,319 Speaker 3: was the only person that read the script. He was 238 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 3: the one that I think kind of represented that Reagan 239 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 3: dumb and he had just one note. His one note 240 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 3: was that Jack Reagan's dad. We were probably a little 241 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 3: bit harsh in the first draft, you know, he said, 242 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 3: from all that I know, I think Reagan's dad was 243 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 3: more of a likable drunk, not a mean drunk. And 244 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 3: so we revised that a little bit to try to 245 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 3: make that accurate. But from Justice Kennedy, Justice Scalia, to 246 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 3: folks that worked with him and knew him, we just 247 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,559 Speaker 3: got a lot of their stories in and just little 248 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 3: snippets here and there that help us to develop the 249 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 3: character George Schultz. It was good. If you noticed in 250 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 3: the film, you know, you'll see that Schultz and Reagan 251 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 3: have a confrontational moment, and we talked about that, and 252 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 3: you know, he wasn't necessarily a true believer. He was 253 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 3: more in the moderate camp, and so it was great 254 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 3: to have that conflict as well between the kind of 255 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 3: the Reaganite part of the operation, maybe the Dana Roorbacher types, 256 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 3: Peter Robinson types, and the George Schultz types, to have 257 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 3: that conflict happening as well. And I would have people 258 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 3: tell me stories. And I remember one in particular one 259 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 3: of his aides. I said, look, everybody's saying Reagan is 260 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 3: so nice and so perfect and so great, and said, 261 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 3: you've got to give me some humanity here. Would he 262 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 3: ever lose his temper? He said yeah, He said he 263 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 3: would lose his temper, would very quickly be a flash 264 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 3: of temper and then to be over. I said, well, 265 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 3: give me an example, and he said, well, one day 266 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 3: I gave him his schedule and he looked at the 267 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 3: schedule and he said he threw his glasses down across 268 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 3: the table and he said, guys, I cannot do all 269 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 3: this in one day. Then it quickly passed. So that 270 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 3: was helpful because you want to make sure you have 271 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 3: the full humanity of the person. 272 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: I noticed that you chattel with John Barletta. I found 273 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: him to be an endless number of good stories about 274 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: Reagan as a human being. I was delighted that you 275 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: had a chance to talk with John. 276 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, I spent time with John. I also brought Dennis 277 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 3: Quai to meet John as well, and they had some 278 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 3: good time together. You know, it's really unfortunate he passed 279 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 3: away from cancer before we could shoot the movie. But 280 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 3: he died just before we began shooting. But he sat 281 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 3: down with us and recounted the last rode. The film 282 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 3: ends with that last horse ride. Now, in real life, 283 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 3: the ride happened the day before, not the day after, 284 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 3: because once they had that conversation, Reagan never wrote again. 285 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 3: But this is a movie, not a documentary, so we'd 286 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 3: have a little fun with that. But John was really helpful. 287 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 3: He told us. He told us that Reagan was more 288 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 3: religious than the public thinks, and he considered the ranches 289 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 3: outdoor cathedral and they would have very deep conversations about faith. 290 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 3: I should mention that we hired a terrific actor to 291 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 3: play him, called Trevor Donovan. And the night before I 292 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 3: had Trevor call Barletta's sister and they had a nice 293 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 3: chat and she said, you're doing a Boston accent, aren't you, 294 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 3: And poor Trevor said yes. Then he spent the next 295 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 3: twenty four hours hitting a Boston accent down and did 296 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 3: a great job for us. 297 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: Well, Barlotte told me this great story about early on 298 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: there at the ranch and Reagan goes out riding. Suddenly 299 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: they hear shots, and you know, the Secret Service goes crazy, 300 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: people yell shots. They all rather well, Reagan was wearing 301 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: a pistol. He was shooting at crows who were sitting 302 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: on the line. 303 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, we actually shot that scene. It just didn't make 304 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 3: the final cut. 305 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 2: I'm curious, in terms of making a movie, why did 306 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 2: that not make the cut. 307 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 3: We have a process that we go through. There's the 308 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 3: cut that I want to show the world, and there's 309 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 3: the cut that the world wants to see. And so 310 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 3: part of being a filmmaker is just coming to terms 311 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 3: of that reality. And so we screened the film for 312 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 3: three thousand people in eleven states leading up to the release, 313 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 3: and it helped us work out the kinks. There's a 314 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 3: reason the film is that an ninety eight percent approval 315 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 3: rating at Rotten Tomatoes, and that's because we worked out 316 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 3: a lot of the things earlier that people were having 317 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 3: a problem with, and that was one of them. But 318 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 3: I would say the biggest issue was Originally we didn't 319 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 3: meet Dennis Quaid until about twenty five minutes into the film. 320 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 3: Our Genius test audiences were saying, Hey, I came here 321 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 3: to see Dennis Quaid as Ronald Reagan. What's going on here? Welcome, 322 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 3: I'm not seeing him for twenty five minutes, and so 323 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 3: we realized, yeah, that's probably a mistake. So we brought 324 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 3: the assassination tip pround to the beginning. But it's just 325 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 3: a process you go through and maybe someday we'll have 326 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 3: a highlight reel or something a little but it's a 327 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 3: fun scene. Also, I should mention on Barletta a couple 328 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 3: things that come to mind since you asked about him. 329 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 3: First was he told me one day he came in 330 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 3: and he saw Ronald Reagan and Henry Fonda commiserating about 331 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 3: how their daughters didn't share their political beliefs. I thought 332 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 3: that was kind of a funny thing for him to observe. 333 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 3: And the second was, as part of our research, came 334 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 3: across a fellow who said he was in a group 335 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 3: at church that amazingly enough, think about this, mister speaker. 336 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 3: So Reagan is president for eight years, he comes back 337 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 3: to his home church in Los Angeles, and the pastor 338 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 3: Don Muma makes him retake the membership courses of his 339 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 3: church because he hadn't been around for eight years, so 340 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 3: he made him retake the six week course with new members. 341 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 3: And so one of the members in the group said 342 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 3: that Reagan had told them, the entire group that he 343 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 3: had met with Hinckley personally to forgive him. And I, 344 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 3: of course, i'd never heard this, and you probably haven't 345 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:28,120 Speaker 3: heard this, And so I checked with Barletta and he said, 346 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:30,120 Speaker 3: to my knowledge, didn't happen, but he could have snuck 347 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 3: behind my back and done it. But he checked with 348 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 3: missus Reagan. She had never heard of that. I checked 349 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 3: with the head of Saint Elizabeth's Hospital, where Hinckley was 350 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 3: a local institution, and amazingly, he did tell me that 351 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 3: Reagan tried. He said, Reagan called and said I'd like 352 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 3: to meet with Hinckley. And I said, mister President, please 353 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 3: don't do that. It's a very bad idea to reward 354 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,239 Speaker 3: assassins with personal visits. So he says, as far as 355 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 3: I know, it didn't happen, but it could have happened, 356 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 3: but Barletta had no record of it either. 357 00:17:57,880 --> 00:17:58,479 Speaker 2: That's wild. 358 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: Now, I also have to tell you, I didn't realize 359 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:07,159 Speaker 1: that Reagan's favorite candy was not jelly beans. 360 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 2: It was eminem's. 361 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 3: Well, don't tell the jellybilly folks, but no, we partner 362 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 3: with them. I think it was one of his aides, 363 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 3: what was her name. She would say that she would 364 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 3: smuggle eminems into his suit pockets. So I think it 365 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 3: was both. 366 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 2: I mean, he had jelly beans on the desk. 367 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 3: That's right. For official purpose, it was jelly beans, but 368 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 3: he had a hankering for the eminems and he would, 369 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 3: especially later after the presidency, he would try to sneak 370 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 3: them into his coat pocket and Nancy would find them. 371 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 3: But the jellybully folks did very very well by Ronald Reagan. 372 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 3: They sold a lot of jelly beans, and officially that 373 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 3: was what he said. It helped him with smoking, to 374 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:40,119 Speaker 3: stop pipe smoking. I think it was. 375 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 2: Were any of the kids helpful? 376 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 3: They have their own projects, and so I didn't want 377 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 3: to interfere with They have their own documentaries and books 378 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 3: and things. But I had met with Mike maybe fifteen 379 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,119 Speaker 3: years ago, and so Mike had given me some stories. 380 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 3: His feeling, too, was probably best to kind of stay 381 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 3: away from all of us and do your thing. So 382 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:00,719 Speaker 3: I kept a respectful distance, but I hope they've had 383 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:01,479 Speaker 3: a chance to see it. 384 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:05,199 Speaker 1: As you go through all that research, did any of 385 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: it significantly change your perception of Reagan? 386 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question. I think all of us 387 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,199 Speaker 3: who are in some way in public life, we have 388 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 3: these moments where let's just say you've spoken to a 389 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 3: thousand people or three hundred people, whatever, and you leave 390 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,399 Speaker 3: the room and you're like, oh, so glad that's over with. 391 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 3: You know, we all have moments like that. And with Reagan, 392 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 3: I remember it was Dane Robacher who said he was 393 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 3: exactly in public who he was in private. There was 394 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 3: no moments like that were ah, so glad we're free 395 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 3: of that guy. He would be the same person in 396 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 3: the group as he was later when it was just 397 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 3: the two of you. So that was interesting. I also 398 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 3: discovered that Ronald Reagan wrote some songs. I had no idea. 399 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 3: Said out with Mike Kerb who was the former lieutenant 400 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 3: governor of California, as you know, and he says, oh, 401 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 3: by the way, Reagan and I wrote two songs together. 402 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 3: And I said, excuse me, He said, yeah, we wrote 403 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 3: these two songs together in the back of a limo. 404 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,920 Speaker 3: He says. One day we were writing somewhere. I said, well, 405 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 3: do you have them? And he said yeah. So I 406 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 3: gave one of them to Lee Greenwood and we have 407 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,919 Speaker 3: an album coming out soon of songs inspired by the film, 408 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 3: and I had Lee rewrite some of the music and 409 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,400 Speaker 3: lyrics to it. And so it's called Begin the World 410 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 3: Over Again. And literally, Ronald Reagan and Mike Kerb wrote 411 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 3: that in the back of a limo in nineteen seventy six. 412 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 3: So from the grave he speaketh, and we'll hear Ronald 413 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 3: Reagan's lyrics Begin the World Over Again with Lee Greenwood. 414 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 1: When I saw the movie the way he is John 415 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,719 Speaker 1: Voight as a KGB agent, I thought it was really 416 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: interesting casting. 417 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 2: How did that come about? 418 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 3: Well, I wish I could take credit for it, but 419 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 3: all I can take credit for is waking myself up. 420 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 3: I had just hired a writer, Howie Klausner, who wrote 421 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 3: Space Cowboys for Clint Eastwood. And you know, the relationship 422 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 3: between a producer and a writer is one that you 423 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,159 Speaker 3: don't want to trample in their area. You want to 424 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 3: let them have free reign and do their thing. And 425 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 3: at the same time, you know, guide the process. But anyway, 426 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 3: I just hired him. I dreamed the first ten minutes 427 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 3: of the movie, basically putting the KGB agent and the 428 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 3: whole thing. And I remember thinking to myself, in my 429 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 3: half awake, half a sleep state, if I don't wake 430 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,479 Speaker 3: myself up and write this down, I will never remember 431 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:16,400 Speaker 3: this in the morning. If you've had that happening before, 432 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 3: I've had that happened to be a lot. I willed 433 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 3: myself to wake up, wrote her all out, sent it 434 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,400 Speaker 3: to him, and then waited, you know, waited for him 435 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 3: to say, who do you think you are? Let me 436 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 3: do my job, and instead he said, this is great. 437 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 3: Let's run with this, and so he took that opening, 438 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 3: came up with the whole script. As far as Voight, 439 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 3: John and I had met years ago. It's funny. We 440 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 3: were both on an awards ceremony and we were both 441 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 3: waiting for our cars to arrive out in the sidewalk, 442 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 3: and so I told him what I was working on, 443 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 3: and we kept in touch. But John was really helpful. 444 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 3: He had been to the Soviet Union before and after 445 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 3: its fall, he'd been to Russia after and was so helpful. 446 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 3: And what actors bring to the table is. He said, 447 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 3: when I was there earlier, their eyes were dead. After 448 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 3: they were free, their eyes came to life. I can 449 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 3: see the average Russian just something in the eyes, and 450 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 3: that's intangible that you can't really put on a piece 451 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 3: of paper. And John had great stories of being there 452 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:14,680 Speaker 3: and his mother with him, and his mother actually pestered 453 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 3: poor Boris Yeltsin. They ran into him on the street 454 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 3: and eighty something year old mother went up to yelts 455 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:21,679 Speaker 3: and he says, I'd like to have that pin you 456 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 3: have and he said, well, this is for members of 457 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,159 Speaker 3: the Duma. I can't just give it to you. Says, oh, 458 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 3: you can get another one. Just the fun interaction that 459 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 3: they'd had, so all those personal experiences really helped us 460 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 3: to tell the story. 461 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of Dennis Waide. I think he's 462 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,679 Speaker 1: a remarkable talent. How did you settle on him to 463 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: be Reagan? 464 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 3: You know, he was always my first choice, just because 465 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 3: there's a certain intangible fact that Dennis has. He's got 466 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:06,120 Speaker 3: that same smile that Auschuck's grin. But later I would 467 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 3: learn that there were a lot of other similarities. His 468 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 3: mother was also very religious. His father was also alcoholic, 469 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,879 Speaker 3: and you know, Jane Wyman and Meg Ryan have a 470 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:17,679 Speaker 3: lot in common. They were sort of the up and 471 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 3: coming actresses as their husband's careers were kind of fading. 472 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 3: And Dennis would be the first to tell you he'd 473 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 3: go to New York City and people be screaming his 474 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,160 Speaker 3: wife's name and forgetting about him walking next to her. 475 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 3: So all these things really pointed to Dennis. 476 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 1: Now. 477 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,880 Speaker 3: At the same time, because his schedule was pretty full 478 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 3: at the time, I had to talk to other actors too, 479 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:39,120 Speaker 3: So we talked to other actors like Jim Cavizl who 480 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 3: played Jesus in The Passion Gosh, a lot of actors, 481 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 3: either the representatives or themselves. Christian Bale, Dennis is always 482 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 3: kind of first choice, and so when his schedule opened up, 483 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 3: that was our moment. And it took some convincing. You know, 484 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 3: he was just really intimidated by playing this character. It's 485 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 3: not an easy character to play. It's one thing to 486 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 3: play Abraham Lincoln, who's going to say that's not right, 487 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 3: you know, but he knows. But with Reagan, a lot 488 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,160 Speaker 3: of us are still alive. So it was a really 489 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 3: daunting task for him. And what really sealed the deal 490 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 3: for him was we went up to the Reagan ranch 491 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 3: together and he just really felt Reagan's spirit there and 492 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 3: understood the character and decided to do it. 493 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 1: Quit since comes across as western enough that he felt right. 494 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, he's from Houston. Originally had a ranch out in Montana, 495 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 3: just like Reagan did with his ranch. He's got the 496 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,639 Speaker 3: skin if somebody's been out at the ranch, you know. 497 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,400 Speaker 3: I later learned also that he and his father had 498 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 3: listened to the sixty four speech in real time driving 499 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 3: down the highway in nineteen sixty four. So that's the 500 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 3: kind of thing where he had actually lived at with 501 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 3: his dad, and he said his dad was putting his 502 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 3: hand on the every time Reagan would says me, you go, Ronnie. 503 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 3: He's kind of thing. So he had that from childhood. 504 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,119 Speaker 1: I thought it was a little more surprising that you 505 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: had Penelope and Miller playing Nancy Leaan, how did that happen? 506 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 3: I had learned about her and seen her work, and 507 00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 3: I just didn't know what Dennis was going to say. So, 508 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 3: I mean I went over to his house and said, hey, 509 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 3: what do you think about Penelope and Miller for Nancy? 510 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 3: And he said, Carlito's way and he said, absolutely, it's 511 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 3: a great choice. And so she was just somebody that 512 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 3: we had come across and learned that she was available 513 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 3: and that she was interested, and she really did her homework. 514 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 3: It was really amazing. She read book after a book 515 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 3: and reached out to some of the folks that Nancy 516 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,640 Speaker 3: had worked with. And you know, in our testing that 517 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:26,919 Speaker 3: I told you we had done earlier, she and Dennis 518 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 3: were always neck and neck at the top of people's ratings. 519 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 3: They just felt like she really captured I don't know 520 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 3: how you felt about it, because you knew Nancy, of course, 521 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,120 Speaker 3: but it was a thing that she really kind of captured, 522 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:42,360 Speaker 3: the angst and the protectiveness that Nancy had towards Ronnie. 523 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: You talked about Reagan had a crush as a teenager 524 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: on Mugs Cleaver. Now I have to tell you, I 525 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: had never heard of Mugs Clever, and I don't know 526 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 1: how you found this. 527 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,159 Speaker 3: Well. It's so funny because I read some of the 528 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,679 Speaker 3: reviews and they would call it hagiography. And you know, 529 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 3: it's funny because that word never comes out if it's 530 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 3: just a normal person. It's only when it's Ronald Reagan. 531 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 3: But I'm thinking, did you guys watch the same movie 532 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,159 Speaker 3: that I made, because in my movie, he gets, you know, 533 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 3: his girlfriend from childhood love dumps him, his wife dumps him. 534 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 3: He's washed up at fifty and he doesn't know what 535 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 3: he's gonna do with his life. So I don't know 536 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 3: if we're watching the same movie. But no. She was 537 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 3: the preacher's daughter and Margaret Cleaver, and they were engaged basically, 538 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,479 Speaker 3: and she went off to Europe for the summer and 539 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,919 Speaker 3: met an American guy in Europe and came back and 540 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 3: wrote him a Dear John letter. And so his life 541 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 3: was full of a lot of ups and downs, and 542 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 3: I think more than anything else. For a period of time, 543 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,439 Speaker 3: I had originally had John Avilson, who was the director 544 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:48,119 Speaker 3: of Rocky, to direct Reagan. And John was eighty one 545 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,439 Speaker 3: years old and passed away before we began shooting. But 546 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 3: John would often tell me he was a wellspring of 547 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 3: great advice, and I would sit with him for lunch 548 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 3: and take notes as he was giving off these zingers. 549 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,639 Speaker 3: But he would tell me these great Rocky stories of 550 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 3: how they got this scene in that scene, and he said, Mark, 551 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 3: don't forget the rock He was not about boxing. Boxing 552 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 3: happened to be his occupation. It's really the story of 553 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,679 Speaker 3: the man overcoming the odds. And he said in the 554 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,119 Speaker 3: same way, Reagan is not about politics per se of 555 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,680 Speaker 3: the movie. It's about the man who happens to be 556 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 3: politics as his occupation, but it's really about him overcoming 557 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 3: the difficulties and the challenges he faced, and so that 558 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,680 Speaker 3: really guided us throughout the process. And there's a love 559 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 3: story here. If you're not into politics, you know, you 560 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 3: can still enjoy it on that level as well. 561 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 1: I don't know very many movies that have the gap 562 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: between the rating by filmgoers and the critics. When filmgoers 563 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: on Rotten Tomatoes gave Reagan a ninety eight percent, which 564 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,959 Speaker 1: is astonishing, and the critics gave it eighteen. I mean, 565 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:55,880 Speaker 1: I don't know very many other movies that have an 566 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 1: eighty point difference. 567 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,160 Speaker 3: It's the largest in history. So record was sixty five 568 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 3: not that I keep track of these things, but it 569 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 3: was a film called Boondock Saints that was sixty five points. 570 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 3: And so we've actually applied to Guinness World Book of 571 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,920 Speaker 3: Records for the largest gap in history. They think it's 572 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 3: going to be a solid one. It's a new record 573 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 3: for them. Of course, film goores are really really smart. 574 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 3: You know, the people are very smart. They know what's 575 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,880 Speaker 3: going on there. It's not possible to have an eighty 576 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 3: point gap for the same piece of work. And so 577 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 3: my favorite review, which I really appreciated the honesty, was 578 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 3: one reviewer said, I left after twenty minutes and still 579 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 3: reviewed the movie. You got to hand it to him. 580 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 3: I think that happened more often, but people just didn't 581 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 3: admit it. A lot of it was about Ronald Reagan himself, 582 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 3: what they didn't like about him. 583 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: We live in a different distribution world than when I 584 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: grew up, because when I grew up, you either made 585 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: it in the movie theater or you didn't make it. Now, 586 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 1: you've also been streaming ever since. 587 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, we hit number one at the box office on 588 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 3: day eight, so after a theatrical run for of all. 589 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 3: Of course, you can buy a DVD or Blu Rays 590 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 3: at Amazon Online, but it's also streaming on Apple TV, 591 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 3: on YouTube and then Amazon Prime where you can watch it. 592 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 3: There's a number of ways to watch it. You know 593 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 3: what's really great about the DVD Blu ray packages. There's 594 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 3: three ways to watch it on that thing. You can 595 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 3: buy it and you have a DVD and a Blu 596 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 3: Ray and a digital code in there. I joke that 597 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 3: you can give the digital code to your grandson and 598 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 3: then keep the Blu Ray for yourself and give the 599 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 3: DVD to your son or daughter and the whole family 600 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 3: can enjoy it. 601 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 2: Good. 602 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: Well, now I understand you're speaking at the Reagan Library 603 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: and SeeMe Valley on April twenty ninth. 604 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 3: I'm sure you've been there many many times I have. 605 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 2: Can people come to the event? 606 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 3: Yeah? Please, I would love to have you come. It's 607 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 3: coming up in the twenty ninth. It's a good operation. 608 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 3: I've been to a number of libraries and they do 609 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 3: a really good job. They roll out dead Sea scrolls 610 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 3: and all kinds of interesting things, and they have a 611 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 3: pretty robust program of having speakers out there. 612 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 1: They do, and as I understand it, if people can't 613 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 1: physically get to the event, they can join the event 614 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: virtually by going directly to Reaganfoundation dot org slash events. 615 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 3: Right, you've been there several times with your. 616 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: Books, probably been there fifteen times. Every time I've been, 617 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: I've had a great experience. That have a wonderful team. 618 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 3: I should also add, mister speaker that we shot at 619 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 3: the Reagan Library and the Reagan Rancher in the library, 620 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 3: and because of COVID the place was opened. So we 621 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 3: shot for I think maybe a week on the real 622 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 3: Air Force one, and then the real Marine one, and 623 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 3: then the Kaal shootdown scene that plane also as well. 624 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 3: So to my knowledge, it's the first time that a 625 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 3: real Air Force one has been used in a movie. 626 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 3: It's usually a set. 627 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 2: I didn't realize that. That's great. 628 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a little eerie to see that he's in 629 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 3: the exact same places that he would have been well. 630 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 2: And of course that was when the Air Force one 631 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 2: was a seven h seven. 632 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: It's a much smaller plane, and when you get in 633 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 1: it and you realize it, it's not exactly luxurious. 634 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 3: Oh my goodness. You can't take a shower or a 635 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 3: bath or anything in that thing. So the poor guy's 636 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 3: traveling around the world, and good grief, you'd think they 637 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 3: would take better care of our presidents. 638 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: But it somehow worked. Listen, I'm going to thank you 639 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: for joining us in your new book. Making Reagan is 640 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 1: available now on Amazon and a bookstores everywhere, and we're 641 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:12,719 Speaker 1: going to feature a link to buy it on our 642 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: show page. And we're really grateful that you take this 643 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 1: kind of time to talk with us. 644 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 3: Of course, thanks for having me. 645 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 2: Thank you to my guest Mark Joseph. 646 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 1: You can get a link to buy his new book, 647 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: Making Reagan on our show page at nutsworld dot com. 648 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 1: Newtsworld is produced by Ginglish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our 649 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 1: executive producer is Guarnsey Sloan. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. 650 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 1: The artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley. 651 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: Special thanks to the team at Ginglish three sixty. If 652 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 1: you've been enjoying Nutsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple 653 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 1: Podcast and both rate us with five stars and give 654 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 1: us a review so others can learn what it's all about. 655 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 1: Right now, listeners of Newtsworld can sign up for my 656 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 1: three free weekly columns at ginglistree sixty dot com. Slash 657 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 1: newsletter it language this is needs work.