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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal.

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Speaker 2: Here, Independent media just played a truly massive role in

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Speaker 2: this election, and we are so excited about what that

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Speaker 2: means for the future of this show.

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Speaker 3: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 3: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 3: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 2: you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad free,

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Speaker 2: and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

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Speaker 3: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 3: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 3: dot com.

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Speaker 1: Good morning, and welcome to the Counterpoints.

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Speaker 4: Emily Crystal Sager film all way finishing their two.

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Speaker 1: Day long argument. We're going to pick it.

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Speaker 4: Up today though, because we've got more news on the

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Speaker 4: Venezuelan migrants.

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Speaker 5: Do I have to play the role of Sager and.

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Speaker 1: Jenny whatever, whatever works for you.

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Speaker 6: See, we'll say stay tuned for that because there's actually

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Speaker 6: some pretty interesting updates and some interesting reaction to how

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Speaker 6: Chief Justice John Roberts decided to handle the situation yesterday.

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Speaker 5: We will get to that.

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Speaker 6: We're going to start first with developments in the ceasefire negotiations.

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Speaker 6: Donald Trump obviously spoke with Russian President Vladimir Putin yesterday

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Speaker 6: and did a big interview with Lord Ingram on Fox

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Speaker 6: News last night where we got more and more information

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Speaker 6: about what a potential ceasefire deal.

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Speaker 5: Could end up looking like.

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Speaker 6: We are then going to move on to how Chief

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Speaker 6: Justice John Roberts rebuked Trump and Magaworld's calls to impeach

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Speaker 6: the judge that halted those migrant deportation flights. The judge

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Speaker 6: impeachment calls are actually a trend, It's not just this judge.

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Speaker 6: So we're going to break all of that down. We're

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Speaker 6: then going to move to really right in a segment

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Speaker 6: I think is going to be really unique, to something

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Speaker 6: that you're able to bring the show via drop site

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Speaker 6: and talk to some people who have witnessed on the

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Speaker 6: ground in Gaza these strikes.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we're going to have our midies that are Shreeve

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Speaker 4: Hebdelkadu's join us. We may also have Abu Baker Abed

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Speaker 4: who many of you on the show.

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Speaker 1: No, he's amazing to appear. We'll see if he does.

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Speaker 4: This morning, he witnessed uh An Israeli assault on a

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Speaker 4: on a convoy, a tank shelling that killed some of

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Speaker 4: his friends, that nearly killed him.

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Speaker 1: He is he is, He is safe.

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Speaker 4: He is obviously shaken up from the last couple of

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Speaker 4: days of violence. And he'll'll join us if he can. Hopefully,

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Speaker 4: hopefully he can. But if not, Sharif will be with us.

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Speaker 4: Who has been editing him, you know over the last

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Speaker 4: several months.

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Speaker 5: How hold this up a back ar agon.

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Speaker 1: Maybe he's twenty three now three? Okay, maybe twenty two.

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Speaker 5: He does amazing work.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, this is this is a guy who all he

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Speaker 4: wants to do is be a soccer journalist.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Football, we will call it football for him.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, give him on.

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Speaker 6: So Chuck Schumer is having a hard time selling his

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Speaker 6: new book, and man, Ryan, it just keeps.

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Speaker 1: Getting trying to compete with Ezra Kleine. You can't. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what are you doing, Chuck?

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Speaker 5: You can't compete with what he was thinking? Did they know?

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Speaker 5: Did they really?

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Speaker 1: Did they not realize? Do not come out the same day.

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Speaker 6: As as But Chuck Schumer managed to get booked everywhere yesterday.

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Speaker 6: By everywhere, I mean the CBS Morning Show and The

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Speaker 6: View and Chris Hayes. So we have some highlights and

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Speaker 6: low lights to share of Chuck Schumer's media tour in

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Speaker 6: the last twenty four hours and some really interesting, I

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Speaker 6: think discussion points about where the Democratic Party has had

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Speaker 6: it not in the long term future, I mean that too,

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Speaker 6: but also just in the near term. Here and Ryan,

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Speaker 6: we have, thanks to you, Alvarro Badoya, the FTC commissioner

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Speaker 6: who was quote unquote fired by Trump yesterday. That is

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Speaker 6: in dispute whether Donald Trump actually has the authority to

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Speaker 6: fire him. Even some people on the right will say

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Speaker 6: he doesn't have the authority because of Humphrey's executor, which

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Speaker 6: is a case I know we'll get into, but they're

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Speaker 6: trying to push that into the Supreme Court, like many

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Speaker 6: of these battles, which are intentionally designed to test sitting precedent.

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Speaker 4: Right, there's supposed to be three Republicans and two Democrats

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Speaker 4: on the FTC. Trump just fired two of the Democrats

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Speaker 4: who were Senate confirmed. Like you said, quote unquote fired

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Speaker 4: one of them as commission Badoya I the breaking points

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Speaker 4: guy and drops it and dropsite. And so he's going

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Speaker 4: to be on the show later today talking about, you

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Speaker 4: know what his approach to the FTC was, and what

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Speaker 4: it means that now there will be only actually two

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Speaker 4: Republicans because they haven't even confirmed the third. And why

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Speaker 4: which faction within the Trump coalition may may have driven

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Speaker 4: this move.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, this is going to be a really interesting conversation.

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Speaker 6: So very happy to have him here. Let's begin with

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Speaker 6: Russia so we can put a zero up on the screen.

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Speaker 6: This is a New York Times headline, just about sort

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Speaker 6: of a TikTok everything that we know so far about

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Speaker 6: this deal. As the New York Times says, put An

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Speaker 6: agreed on Tuesday during a phone call with Trump to

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Speaker 6: temporarily halt strikes on Ukrainian energy infrastructure. According to the Kremlin,

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Speaker 6: that fell short of the unconditional thirty day sees fire

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Speaker 6: that Ukraine had already agreed to at the urging of

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Speaker 6: the Trump administration. They reportedly spoke, according to the Kremlin,

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Speaker 6: again for more than two hours. Mister Trump, the Times continues,

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Speaker 6: has stated as desired a broker truth as quickly as possible,

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Speaker 6: while Putin has seemed to be seeking more concessions. Zelensky

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Speaker 6: replied on Tuesday evening that Putin had quote effectively rejected

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Speaker 6: the proposal for a full cease fire backed by the

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Speaker 6: US and Ukraine. Now, Trump sat down with an interview

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Speaker 6: sat down with Laura Ingram for an interview on Fox

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Speaker 6: News last night, where we learned a little bit more

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Speaker 6: about how he saw that call yesterday. This is a

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Speaker 6: one will rolled Trump on Laura Ingram from the White House.

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Speaker 8: Russia has the advantage, as you know, they have encircled

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Speaker 8: about two five hundred soldiers. They're nicely encircled, and that's

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Speaker 8: not good and we want to get it over with. Look,

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Speaker 8: we're doing this. There are no Americans involved. There could

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Speaker 8: be if you end up in World War three over this,

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Speaker 8: which is so ridiculous, but you know, strange things happen.

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Speaker 8: And I think we had a great quote, lasted almost

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Speaker 8: two hours, talked about a lot of things and toward

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Speaker 8: getting it to peace, and we talked about other things.

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Speaker 6: Also, here's an interesting exchange between Ingram and Trump actually

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Speaker 6: about what the Kremlins said after the call regarding aid

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Speaker 6: to Ukraine.

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Speaker 5: Let's take a look at this.

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Speaker 9: A two negotiables mentioned by Putin. It was reported that

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Speaker 9: I think the Kremlin media actually stated that he demanded

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Speaker 9: an immediate cessation of aid to Ukraine in order to

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Speaker 9: get to this multi step deal.

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Speaker 8: No, we didn't talk about AID. Actually we didn't talk

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Speaker 8: about aid at all. We talked about a lot of things,

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Speaker 8: but AID was never discussed.

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Speaker 6: So that's Trump directly disputing the Kremlins report of what

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Speaker 6: happened on the call. And just lastly, let's roll this

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Speaker 6: clip of Donald Trump talking about Russia and economic power.

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Speaker 5: This is the eighth This should be a three.

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Speaker 8: Next clip here, China needs us in terms of trade

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Speaker 8: very badly, but we have to straighten out the deficit.

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Speaker 8: We have now more than a trillion dollar deficit with China.

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Speaker 8: It's not even unbelievable, and we're going to be doing

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Speaker 8: something about that. And with Russia, they would like to

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Speaker 8: have some of our economic power.

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Speaker 6: Finally, Ryan, let's put how Donald Trump reported untruth social

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Speaker 6: about the call on the screen.

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Speaker 5: This is the next element.

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Speaker 6: He says, quote, my phone conversation today with President Putin

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Speaker 6: of Russia was a.

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Speaker 5: Very good and productive one. We agreed to an immediate seasfire.

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Speaker 6: On all energy and infrastructure, with an understanding that we

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Speaker 6: will be working quickly to have a complete ceasefire and

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Speaker 6: ultimately an end to.

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Speaker 5: This very horrible war.

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Speaker 6: Continues to say it never would have started if he

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Speaker 6: were president. Many elements of a contract for peace were discussed,

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Speaker 6: including the fact that thousands of soldiers are being killed

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Speaker 6: and both Putin and Zelensky would like to see it

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Speaker 6: and the process is now in full force and effect.

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Speaker 6: But Ryan, interestingly, while the process does clearly seem to

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Speaker 6: be unfolding, full force might not be the best descriptor.

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Speaker 6: If you're Trump, It's one way to spend it, but

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Speaker 6: might not be the best descriptor. Given the way that

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Speaker 6: Zelenski responded to news from the call yesterday.

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Speaker 4: Well you can tell Trump felt pretty good about how

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Speaker 4: it went because he if you noticed, there was only

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Speaker 4: one word in all caps in that truth social and

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Speaker 4: it was end.

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Speaker 1: It's going to end the war.

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Speaker 4: Obviously, lots of exclamation points, but you know that's what

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Speaker 4: that's what you're gonna get. Of course, when you know,

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Speaker 4: you can kind of check his emotional register by mapping

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Speaker 4: it to the number of all caps statements if it's

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Speaker 4: if it's shot through with all caps, like he is

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Speaker 4: feeling besieged and angry and how dare people be, you know,

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Speaker 4: doing these things to him when all he wants is

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Speaker 4: peace for the world. So in that sense, it seems

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Speaker 4: like he feels like he's he's getting somewhere.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 4: They also, you know, he also talked about something that

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Speaker 4: he understands, which is entertained sports and entertainment, as you know,

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Speaker 4: through at a by the Bilateral Cultural Exchange of Joint

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Speaker 4: Hockey Games.

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Speaker 1: Put this one up, put a five.

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Speaker 4: In March twenty twenty two, the NHL told the KHL,

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Speaker 4: you forget.

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Speaker 1: It, like, we're not partnering with you. Guys. You can't.

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Speaker 1: You can't invade Ukraine. And they've been they've been kicked

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Speaker 1: out of the Olympics.

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Speaker 4: Russian agents weren't allowed to work with the NHL teams anymore.

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Speaker 4: You may or may not know, ice hockey is a

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Speaker 4: rather big deal over in Russia, and so Trump here

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Speaker 4: is floating the possibility.

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Speaker 1: Of thawing that.

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Speaker 4: To use a terrible pun, Wow, I didn't do that

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Speaker 4: on purpose, but after I.

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Speaker 1: Got there, I'm like, look, but we got.

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Speaker 5: To go bad joke Wednesday.

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Speaker 1: I guess, accidental dad joke.

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Speaker 6: So that's actually more like bad news anchored jokes.

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Speaker 5: Someone writing the teleprompter script.

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Speaker 4: I just kind of slipped onto that one. So the

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Speaker 4: the problem here that the US is facing, as Trump

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Speaker 4: clearly articulated to Zelenski in the White House, is that

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Speaker 4: we don't have any cards like he's he says, he doesn't,

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Speaker 4: you know, he told Zilenski doesn't have any cards. US

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Speaker 4: really doesn't have any cards either, except for the economic power, which,

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Speaker 4: by the way, can we just underscore the irony here

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Speaker 4: that Trump wants to destroy our trade relations with Canada, Mexico, Europe,

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Speaker 4: everyone else around the world except for Russia.

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Speaker 1: Kind of hilarious, It is funny, okay, whatever. So the

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Speaker 1: problem is.

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Speaker 6: Especially because he doesn't he blame the lifting of sanctions

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Speaker 6: of Nordstream two, and many people in the right dope

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Speaker 6: myself included the Biden administration's lifting of stanctions on Nordstream

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Speaker 6: two is one of the key factors that pushed Putin

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Speaker 6: to invade uk de.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, one of the many incoherent I think the approach

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Speaker 4: is where Trump is both uber hawkish towards Russia and

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Speaker 4: also then a dove when it comes to war, like

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Speaker 4: he wants confrontation right up until the edge that he

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Speaker 4: doesn't want war, but then he says that Putin was

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Speaker 4: justified in the invasion because of the hawkishness of US

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Speaker 4: foreign policy. It's like, wait, wait a minute, you're one

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Speaker 4: of the most hawkish never mind. So Putin has a

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Speaker 4: bunch of demands that are rooted in the fact that

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Speaker 4: they are winning. And that is the fundamental structural problem

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Speaker 4: that Trump is facing and trying to wrap this up

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Speaker 4: immediately so we can put this up on the screen.

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Speaker 4: The conditions that Putin is insisting on. The key condition

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Speaker 4: is the one that Trump says. They didn't even talk

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Speaker 4: about a complete cessation of foreign military aid and sharing

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Speaker 4: intelligence information with Keith. You know, hopefully they're recording these conversations,

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Speaker 4: because if historians are going to rely on the competing

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Speaker 4: words of Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump to get an

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Speaker 4: accurate rendition of how the conversation went. God help us,

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Speaker 4: he said, he said, God, God helped the historians. So

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Speaker 4: then the second one, Putin says he wants to stop

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Speaker 4: the forced mobilization in Ukraine and the rearment of armed forces.

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Speaker 4: So stop drafting people and stop arming Ukraine. It's pretty

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Speaker 4: huge demand. And then any settlement should be complex, stable

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Speaker 4: and long term in nature and must take in to

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Speaker 4: account the absolute need to eliminate the root causes of

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Speaker 4: the crisis. It must also consider the legitimate interests of

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Speaker 4: Russia in the area of security. So the easy part

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Speaker 4: of that is, you know, that means kind of no NATO.

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Speaker 4: What it's subtly suggesting is that they don't just want

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Speaker 4: the area that they currently hold, but they want, you know,

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Speaker 4: deeper into eastern Ukraine, which their argument is, you can

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Speaker 4: either give it to us or we're going to take it.

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Speaker 4: And if we take it, it's going to be bloody

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Speaker 4: and we're going to take a lot We're going to

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Speaker 4: take a lot more with it. And so basically he

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Speaker 4: is saying that if you're going to give up, we're

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Speaker 4: turning Ukraine into a complete vassal state that will that

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Speaker 4: we can basically manipulate, you know, politically from Russia, which is,

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Speaker 4: you know, in other words, it would be like a

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Speaker 4: country in our sphere of influence like this is. You know,

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Speaker 4: that's how we That's how roughly we would handle Guatemala

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Speaker 4: or something along those lines. So how much how much

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Speaker 4: Trump cares about this, how versus how much the kind

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Speaker 4: of US deep state cares about this, I think I

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Speaker 4: guess would indicate whether or not the US is gonna

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Speaker 4: be willing to capitulate to this. On the other hand,

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Speaker 4: the encirclement that he talked about is very real.

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Speaker 1: And this is the other thing that poods talking about.

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Speaker 1: He's like, what about these guys.

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Speaker 4: So we're like encircling these guys, We're about to capture them.

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Speaker 4: So if we do a ceasefire, they can just walk out,

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Speaker 4: And that isn't that is a legitimate questions like how

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Speaker 4: does that work? Like they invaded that in that part,

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Speaker 4: they invaded the curse region of Russia. They just walk out.

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Speaker 4: I don't know, what do you think?

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Speaker 6: Well, let's even put this last element back up to

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Speaker 6: keep this conversation going about Trump and economic power.

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Speaker 5: This is an.

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Speaker 6: Interesting juxtaposition here where you have Scott Besstt on April second,

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Speaker 6: each country, we'll get a tear of number, and then

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Speaker 6: White House future with an improved bilateral relationship between the

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Speaker 6: United States and Russia has huge ups. This includes enormous

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Speaker 6: economic deals. That's you know, we have all kinds of

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Speaker 6: sanctions on Russia and who knows what Russia's tariff would

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Speaker 6: be potentially if this economic relationship is blossoming under Donald Trump.

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Speaker 6: But right, it's kind of I think it's interesting from

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Speaker 6: the perspective of like what Donald Trump's foreign policy is,

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Speaker 6: because it's very like we talk all the time. He's

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Speaker 6: not a John Bolton type neo conservative ideologue, but he

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Speaker 6: does believe in economic power as his like source of

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Speaker 6: creating world peace, which is not an insane It's obviously

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Speaker 6: not an insane idea that when you have economic ties

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Speaker 6: to different countries it deters violence, but it's also sort

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Speaker 6: of not where the right is anymore. And if that's

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Speaker 6: you know, Gaza Riviera in Russia, if that's part of

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Speaker 6: I mean, I think maybe that's being hyperbolic. But if Putin,

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Speaker 6: does Putin respond to that in a way that Donald

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Speaker 6: Trump actually wants him to.

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Speaker 5: Does he respond to the.

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Speaker 6: Prospect of economic opportunities with the United State, it's the

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Speaker 6: same way that Donald Trump wants Flatimer Putin to. I

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Speaker 6: think Putin has ambitions beyond I guess the economic ties

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Speaker 6: with the United States, in that he wants regional power.

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Speaker 5: And I'm not saying he wants I don't think she.

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Speaker 1: Already has a virtue of being powerful.

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Speaker 6: Yeah well yeah, but I mean I'm not saying that

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Speaker 6: to say he has this like design set on Western Europe.

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Speaker 6: But you know, he's his ambitions are not purely economic.

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Speaker 1: Sure, And yeah, they clearly want influence in Western Europe. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's no doubt about that.

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Speaker 5: But yeah, hence Northstream too.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and we you know, in we potentially there was

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Speaker 4: an opportunity to try to end this in March of

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 1: The US decided not to do that.

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Speaker 4: Whether they could have actually ended it or not isn't

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Speaker 4: open question which will never be answered because we didn't.

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Speaker 1: Pursue it, and now it has not gone well.

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Speaker 4: Like the US put whatever it could up against Russia here,

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Speaker 4: you know, one hundred.

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Speaker 1: Plus billion dollars put in a hundred plus billion that

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Speaker 1: was worth of weapons.

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Speaker 4: They drafted everybody they could find, and they're they're losing badly,

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Speaker 4: and they hoped that they would weaken Russia.

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Speaker 1: Russia came out stronger.

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Speaker 5: I mean, Russia has been weakened absolutely, I.

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Speaker 4: Guess if I mean certainly they have. They've lost a

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Speaker 4: lot of men.

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Speaker 5: They've lost a lot of men. Their economy is not incredible.

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Speaker 1: Their economy is not incredible.

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Speaker 4: But geos politically, are they weaker today than they were

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Speaker 4: February twenty two?

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I think they're probably

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Speaker 1: in a better position.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, okay, I mean I think I guess that's fair.

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Speaker 6: But there has been a cost to There's been a

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Speaker 6: cost to them, right.

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Speaker 4: But I think they sanction proofed their economy in a

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Speaker 4: substantial way. They did not get the collect apps that

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Speaker 4: that MSNBC promised this audience. Yes, yeah, there was no

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Speaker 4: real split with China tighter than ever.

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Speaker 5: Maybe I was gonna say, yeah, that's a that is

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Speaker 5: a great point.

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Speaker 4: So Joe Biden does not have a PhD in foreign affairs.

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Speaker 1: He's just that good.

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Speaker 5: He's so his just crushed it.

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Speaker 6: We learn more about Joe Biden's successes with each passing day.

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Speaker 5: All right, well, let's be he.

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Speaker 4: Showed up for Saint Patty's Day. It was like his

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Speaker 4: first comment on anything.

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Speaker 5: I didn't see that he when he just put on

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Speaker 5: the sweet or.

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Speaker 1: Something to celebrate Saint Patty's Day. He just put out

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Speaker 1: like a social statements.

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Speaker 5: But nobody saw him in the wild, I don't think so.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so that would be maybe he was at some

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Speaker 1: bar in Lewis, Delaware.

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Speaker 5: Would you do.

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Speaker 4: I wore my o'kelly's shirt from from Guantanamo Bay. There's

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Speaker 4: an Irish bar on Guantanamo Bay.

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Speaker 6: So your fun. Let's move on to the raging battle

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Speaker 6: over whether it is a good strategy not a good

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Speaker 6: strategy for Republicans to start impeaching judges who block or

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Speaker 6: obstruct Trump's attempts openly to exert the unitary executive theory

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Speaker 6: of power, meaning you're trying to take some power back,

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Speaker 6: as the right would argue from the court administrative state.

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Speaker 6: This is a really interesting exchange between Laura Ingram on

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Speaker 6: Fox News and Donald Trump on Fox News just last

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Speaker 6: night Tuesday night, where Ingram pressed Donald Trump on whether

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Speaker 6: he would defy court orders. That's obviously at the center

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Speaker 6: and Crystal Densager have covered this of the debate over

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Speaker 6: what happened with that migrant flight that was ordered by

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Speaker 6: a judge to be turned around landed in Al Salvador.

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Speaker 6: This was Venezuela migrants alleged to be members of the

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Speaker 6: gang Trende or Raguar, designated by Trump administration as a

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Speaker 6: foreign terrorist organization. So Laura Ingram pushed Trump on whether

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Speaker 6: he would defy court orders.

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Speaker 5: Let's take a look.

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Speaker 9: This is leading people to wonder whether there are court

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Speaker 9: orders that you will defy because you believe that the

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Speaker 9: judge has no jurisdiction or their political questions and not

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Speaker 9: justiciable at all. And what would you say to that,

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Speaker 9: Are there circumstances where you would defy a court order?

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Speaker 10: Well?

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Speaker 8: I think that number one. Nobody's been through more courts

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Speaker 8: than I have. I think nobody knows the courts any

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Speaker 8: better than I have. I would say the Chief Judge does,

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Speaker 8: but nobody knows them better than I have. And what

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Speaker 8: they've done to me. I've had the worst judges. I've

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Speaker 8: had crooked judges. I have judges that valued Mara a

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Speaker 8: Lago at eighteen million dollars because that benefited his case,

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Speaker 8: because he wanted to see me convicted of something. I

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Speaker 8: have judges that were had relatives making millions and millions

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Speaker 8: of dollars on the.

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Speaker 1: Election, ruling on the election going forward.

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Speaker 8: I had judges what.

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Speaker 10: You defy a court orup?

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Speaker 1: We all know that was out.

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Speaker 11: I never did defy a court orner, and you wouldn't

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Speaker 11: in the future.

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Speaker 10: No, you can't do that. However, we have bad judges.

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Speaker 8: We have very bad judges, and these are judges that

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Speaker 8: shouldn't be allowed. I think at a certain point you

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Speaker 8: have to start looking at what do you do when

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Speaker 8: you have a rogue judge, the judge that we're talking about.

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Speaker 8: You look at his other rulings, I mean rulings unrelated

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Speaker 8: but having to do with me.

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Speaker 10: He's a lunatic inger.

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Speaker 6: By the way, was a clerk for Justice Clarence Thomas.

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Speaker 6: A good bit of interest in some of these legal questions.

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Speaker 6: But a lot of people, as a lot of people

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Speaker 6: on the right now do Justice John Roberts, Chief Justice

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Speaker 6: John Roberts, I should say, reacted. He released a statement,

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Speaker 6: a very very rare thing. We can buy the next

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Speaker 6: element up on the screen yesterday midday. He says, quote

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Speaker 6: for more than two centuries, that has been established that

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Speaker 6: impeachment is not an appropriate response to disagreement concerning a

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Speaker 6: judicial decision. The normal appellate review process exists for that purpose.

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Speaker 6: Now here's how some people on the right reacted to

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Speaker 6: John Roberts deciding to take that leap and actually issue

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Speaker 6: a statement. This is Mike Cernovich who said Trump has

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Speaker 6: the political capital and then some to ignore judges who

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Speaker 6: tell them to allow terrorist gangs to remain in the USA.

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Speaker 6: It's not a close call. John Roberts lives in his

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Speaker 6: DC media bubble and overestimates his power.

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Speaker 5: It's all made up.

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Speaker 6: Trump can take it away easily, Jeremy carl He replied,

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Speaker 6: this is actually a pretty funny one. John Roberts is

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Speaker 6: George Bush's worst mistake outside of the Iraq War, and

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Speaker 6: he still got time to take the lead. So this

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Speaker 6: was pretty a pretty common argument Ryan on X yesterday

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Speaker 6: that the Sternovich point about impeachment should be pursued by Congress.

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Speaker 6: You obviously, like Congress really doesn't have the votes right now.

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Speaker 6: There's no way to imagine that you could go get

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Speaker 6: some of these impeachments through Congress. But Trump sort of

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Speaker 6: throwing cold water on it in that primetime inner with

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Speaker 6: Laura Ingram was quite interesting as well, because this was

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Speaker 6: some of his like loyal mega media defenders who spent

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Speaker 6: the day saying impeachment is a perfectly reasonable rational response.

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Speaker 6: Here you have Trump instead saying, Nope, not going to

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Speaker 6: do it.

443
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 5: You can't do it, And.

444
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, there is history on this, That's why he's saying

445
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 4: for more than two hundred years, and not for the

446
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 4: entire history of our country. I think it was under

447
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,400
Speaker 4: Jefferson should have looked this up before we started the show.

448
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,879
Speaker 4: But there was a judge that I think it was

449
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 4: a Federalist judge that was ticking Jefferson off, and his

450
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,960
Speaker 4: party tried to get rid of him and tried to

451
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:41,959
Speaker 4: impeach him. I think he was saved by like one vote.

452
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:46,920
Speaker 4: And that set the precedent where Congress decided, look, we're

453
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 4: not we're only going to impeach judges for corruption, like

454
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 4: we're not.

455
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 1: If we don't like your ruling, we're going to appeal

456
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,120
Speaker 1: it and we're going to push it to a higher level.

457
00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:00,680
Speaker 4: And so since then, basically no political part has ever

458
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,639
Speaker 4: tried to impeach a judge because they didn't like they

459
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:08,199
Speaker 4: didn't like the ruling. I heard the Cernovis of the

460
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:13,680
Speaker 4: world complaining where was John Roberts when AOC and the

461
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,439
Speaker 4: rest of the Democrats were saying that they were going

462
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 4: to pack the courts, And I would say, okay, fair question.

463
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 4: The answer is, that's not out of the realm of

464
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:26,360
Speaker 4: American historical precedent.

465
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 1: Like FDR, that's right there in the.

466
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:33,159
Speaker 4: Law, like the the number of Supreme Court justices is

467
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 4: not set by the Constitution, it's set by Congress. FDR,

468
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 4: when he had a political fight with the Supreme Court,

469
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 4: threatened to pack the court.

470
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 1: There was public outrage at him.

471
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 4: He backed down, and the court, kind of intimidated by

472
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 4: his move, started letting a bunch of the green new

473
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 4: Green New deals, the New Deal, the Blue New Deal

474
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 4: stuff through.

475
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they let that.

476
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 4: So they let that stuff go through, and so then

477
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 4: a fine, so, but but it was a it was

478
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 4: a push and pull of politics. It is also true

479
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,880
Speaker 4: that there was an effort to impeach a judge in

480
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 4: whatever eighteen two or whatever for something they disagreed with,

481
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,879
Speaker 4: so Republicans could try again if they won, which is

482
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 4: what gets me to Trump. I think he's like, why

483
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 4: are you talking about this because you don't have sixty

484
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 4: seven votes to do this. It's like this Elon, it

485
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 4: all came from Elon Musk or it's probably a reply.

486
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 5: Well, he started echoing Bukele.

487
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,680
Speaker 1: He actually like, get out of here, bou Kelly. We're

488
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 1: not taking constitutional advice from seriously.

489
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 5: Seriously.

490
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,679
Speaker 6: But Musk was quote tweeting approvingly the Boukell plan to

491
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 6: you know, crack down and restore democracy.

492
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 1: Kelly did that, but bu Kelly.

493
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 4: Bu Kelly certainly did not invent an executive or getting

494
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 4: rid of his independent judiciary like, that's that's like textbook.

495
00:24:58,080 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 1: And yes, obviously, if.

496
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 4: You want to set up a dictatorship or some type

497
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 4: of extremely powerful like executive, you get rid of the

498
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 4: judiciary that does That doesn't take a constitutional scholar to

499
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 4: figure out.

500
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: But but yeah, they don't. They don't have the vote.

501
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,400
Speaker 4: So his is to me, the almost more interesting answer

502
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 4: there was about would you ignore one? Would you ignore

503
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 4: a ruling? And he says, well, I never have, but

504
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,479
Speaker 4: he doesn't say he wouldn't. On the other hand, bro,

505
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 4: yes you did. You just ignored one like yesterday? Are

506
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,959
Speaker 4: you acting like Monday? The acting like you were not

507
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 4: told to not deport these guys to the El Salvadoran

508
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,360
Speaker 4: torture chambers? Well, hold the judge to f Off.

509
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 6: Well, it was I think that was actually Another interesting

510
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 6: part of what he said is he's maintaining and a

511
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 6: lot of people in Mega world aren't maintaining that I

512
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 6: shouldn't say Maga world in this case in the White

513
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 6: House are actually maintaining that that was not done intentionally,

514
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 6: that it just was happenstance.

515
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:56,159
Speaker 1: And so dude, what's that Huh, you're breaking up? Breaking up?

516
00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: Can't hear this ruling? Also it is I hope that's.

517
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:01,200
Speaker 5: What actually happened.

518
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 6: He's like on Air Force one here.

519
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 4: Also, it is important to point out Trump has named

520
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:12,880
Speaker 4: it the Gulf of America, so therefore not international waters.

521
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: Right. Interesting, Well, where's fact check that for me?

522
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 5: I mean things can be called America.

523
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 1: It was the Gulf of America.

524
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 4: Then he might have an argument, but it's not the

525
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 4: Golf of Mexico anymore. It's Gulf of America. Go look

526
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 4: up of there.

527
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 6: Also would even on that they're disputing whether or not

528
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 6: the like verbal order. I mean, it gets into like

529
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 6: insane arcane legal questions whether the verbal order the time

530
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 6: that the verbal order came out versus what time the

531
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 6: written order came out compared that to the flight logs,

532
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 6: and when all of.

533
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 5: The process was able to We don't need to get

534
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:43,959
Speaker 5: into it.

535
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 4: But also we have we have learned that as suspected,

536
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 4: they made some mistakes. Somebody who came in legally was

537
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,919
Speaker 4: seeking asylum just an artist has nothing to do with

538
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 4: this gang. So on the flight and who knows if

539
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 4: who Kelly has tortured them since then has killed them.

540
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,400
Speaker 4: To me, the people involved in this when Bush used

541
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 4: to do it, they would call it an extraordinary rendition.

542
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,880
Speaker 4: We have rules against torture, and so what Bush would

543
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 4: do is he would send people, mostly to Egypt and

544
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 4: elsewhere and say you torture them, Therefore we're not torturing them.

545
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 4: We now understand that no, that doesn't count. Like that,

546
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:23,120
Speaker 4: that doesn't get.

547
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 1: Around the constitutional prohibition on torture.

548
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 6: Well, and we're referring to is these reports. This is

549
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 6: one from the Miami Herald, that is the Venezuelan's alleged

550
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 6: ship and gang members Trenda Arragua. They're families who have

551
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 6: seen them in the actually the Bu Calai video. Speaking

552
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 6: of Bu Cali, the video that Bukelly released of them

553
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 6: getting off of the plane in Al Salvador, they sort

554
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 6: of spotted their family members and have said they're denying

555
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 6: actually that these family members have any ties whatsoever to

556
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,479
Speaker 6: trendday Ragua. We can put B seven on the screen.

557
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 6: This is getting back into the tattoo debate. This says

558
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 6: quote relatives that he had several tattoos that are testaments

559
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 6: to his love of family. One bears the name their daughter.

560
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 6: Another on his arm whereads Forte call Mama Strong Life Mom.

561
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 6: A third show's two classed hands representing him in his

562
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 6: partner next to the date they began dating. But it

563
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,880
Speaker 6: gets into that question again, Ryan, of whether people are

564
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 6: being swept up into these deportations because they have tattoos

565
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 6: that are identified with trenda arraguall which is something we

566
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:33,919
Speaker 6: do repeatedly here cited by the administration as reasons for

567
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 6: those reasons for the deportations.

568
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 4: Now you've met you've done some reporting down on the border,

569
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 4: You've met ICE agents, Right, would you want your fate

570
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 4: in the hands of the Think about the ICE agents

571
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 4: you've met, all right, and it's a meritocracy.

572
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, these are the people.

573
00:28:56,160 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 4: Who wound up as ICE agents, Right, did you want

574
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 4: your fate in their just turning hands? And the question

575
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 4: that they have to answer, this ICE agent, who's you know,

576
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 4: working down in southern Texas or wherever they are, has

577
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 4: to look at a tattoo on a Venezuelan person's back

578
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 4: and they have to distinguish whether that tattoo is a

579
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 4: trendy al Wagua gang affiliate affiliated tattoo, or it is

580
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 4: some other ink that the person found to be attractive

581
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 4: the day they went or like for many people, the

582
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 4: artist just drew it because like this is you know,

583
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 4: you go in you're like, you're an.

584
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 1: Artist, give me what you got.

585
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 4: So the fate, the question of whether or not you

586
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 4: will be hooded, have your head shaved, tortured, and potentially

587
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 4: killed in an El Salvador in prison is going to

588
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 4: be answered by one ICE agent looking at your tattoo

589
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 4: and deciding whether or not that like, is that is

590
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 4: that enough due process?

591
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: You think?

592
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 5: I hate that?

593
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 4: How confident would you be that that ICE is going

594
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 4: to get it right? One hundred percent of the time.

595
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 6: I hate the Salvadorian involvement here obviously hates that there

596
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 6: are any allegations of torture. If I were concerned about

597
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 6: due process, I would not enter a country illegally or

598
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 6: stay in the country illegally. And that's one of the

599
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 6: questions that I have right now is whether these hundreds

600
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 6: of migrants or what people.

601
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 4: Were What if you were told here's the process, Well,

602
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 4: that's what I'm wondering.

603
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: Asylum, That's what I'm wondering.

604
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 4: You report to this particular spot, you get a number,

605
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 4: then you show up for court.

606
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's what I'm wondering.

607
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: That's the process. That's you're told that's the process, that's

608
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: the legal process.

609
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 4: Yes, and then some myce agents has actually I'm kind

610
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 4: of think that tattoo might mean you're in a gang.

611
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 4: I'm going to tend you to bou Kelly to check out.

612
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 5: We were talking about this months ago.

613
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 6: I think one of the biggest challenges or tensions in

614
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 6: the Trump administration's deportation policy is that the United States

615
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 6: of America under Joe Biden unfortunately opened up an actual

616
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 6: legal asylum process, and that's where you end up having,

617
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 6: you know, some roughly eight million according to the New.

618
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 5: York Times New People a net.

619
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 6: Of migrants coming into the country just under the Biden administration,

620
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 6: a huge, huge chunk of that close to half. I

621
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 6: would say, it's hard to actually know exactly how many

622
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 6: were people who came in and legally applied for the

623
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 6: asylum process. Across the border you claim asylum, and Joe

624
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 6: Biden had opened up people's ability initially when he was president.

625
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 6: This is one of the things he cracked down on

626
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 6: over the last year that brought immigration numbers down dramatically.

627
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 6: So that's what I'm actually genuinely interested about with this

628
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 6: number the hundreds of migrants, is whether any of them

629
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 6: were here because the Biden administration said, claim asylum and

630
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 6: coming out of Venezuela, the American government.

631
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that the American government. That's like torturing and killing,

632
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: and it's you know, it's a most awful government ever.

633
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:53,959
Speaker 1: Come to the United States.

634
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 4: Will give you, it will protect you right, literally give

635
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 4: you temporary protect a status right.

636
00:31:58,400 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 5: Yes.

637
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 6: So, and I would say the administration, I don't think

638
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 6: this matters to most voters from my perspective, someone who's

639
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 6: like in media, I don't think the administration has done

640
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:11,239
Speaker 6: a very good job explaining exactly what these migrants are

641
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 6: accused of, because that distinction, to.

642
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 5: Means really really important.

643
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 6: Whether they cross the border illegally, state illegally, and then

644
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 6: committed various crimes, didn't even show up for asylum hearings.

645
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 6: That can be reason enough, in my book, to deport

646
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 6: people if you're obstructing the process that you're benefiting from

647
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 6: all of those things. That's what I'm curious about. So

648
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 6: I don't think the administration has done a particularly good job.

649
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 6: It's very there's a humorist because they know the public

650
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 6: is completely on their side about deporting military age men

651
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 6: who came to the country and are tatted up and likely.

652
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 5: You know, I think krystill mentioned this the other day.

653
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 6: If there's several hundred, as her estimate the investment she

654
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 6: cited said, several hundred trendy Aragua members in the United States,

655
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 6: that's a significant gang cell spread out throughout the country.

656
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 6: It's not millions, but that's a significant gang cell spread

657
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 6: throughout the country that people want to get the hell

658
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 6: out of the United States of America. So I think

659
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 6: because the administration knows the American people are rightfully supportive

660
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 6: of that, they aren't really eager to pony up the evidence.

661
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 1: And the problem for me is that on the right,

662
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: there's this recognition that the government is inherently incompetent and fallible. Yes,

663
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 1: like it.

664
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 4: Anybody who's gone to the DMV, who like you, show

665
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 4: up in a sold security office if it's still open.

666
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 1: It sucks to dealing with the government.

667
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 4: They're often there, they lose stuff, they lose stuff on purpose,

668
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 4: you know, they say they're open, and they're not open.

669
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 4: Like you know, there's a lot of legitimate criticisms that

670
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 4: people have of the government from their immediate interactions with them.

671
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 4: Right yet, and this is why I'm making fun of

672
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 4: the intellectual capacity to the ICE agents.

673
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 1: Yet we expect then the government to.

674
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 4: Be infallible when it's picking up a venezuela and off

675
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:05,239
Speaker 4: the street, and to be certain that they are not

676
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 4: grabbing a citizen, not grabbing a Green Heart cardholder, They're

677
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 4: not grabbing somebody who legitimately and legally applied for asylum

678
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 4: and has a case that is still being adjudicated. We

679
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,439
Speaker 4: know that in Chicago they picked up a brown guy

680
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 4: and who turned out to be an American citizen, and

681
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 4: he spent the entire night in detention.

682
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 5: So they botched the Khalili arrest, right, they showed up.

683
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,320
Speaker 4: They showed up, arrested Khalil thinking that he had a

684
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 4: student visa, telling him they were revoking This is a

685
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 4: Columbia protester or thing that they were telling him that

686
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 4: they were revoking his student visa, and his lawyers like, bro,

687
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:40,359
Speaker 4: he has a Green card and they're like, well, we're

688
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 4: revoking that too, Like they didn't even know. So you

689
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 4: want to enable these morons with this unchecked power, Like

690
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 4: that point of due process from the right is you

691
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 4: don't trust the government, like you don't you think they

692
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 4: might make mistakes, and so you want to check because

693
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 4: sometimes you can't get a do over, like if you accidentally,

694
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 4: as they appear to have done, using accident very generously

695
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 4: to them, Yeah, accidentally send people who are here legally

696
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,359
Speaker 4: and going through the correct process, and you send them

697
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 4: to a torture chamber and they're tortured.

698
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 1: There's no do over.

699
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:23,439
Speaker 4: You can't undo that you've destroyed that person. And maybe

700
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:24,320
Speaker 4: they get killed.

701
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 6: And maybe they're actually legal avenues they can pursue.

702
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 5: Depends but will I don't know.

703
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 4: They didn't have jurisdiction over the Gulf of America. How

704
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 4: do they have jurisdiction from this dungeon.

705
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 6: The due process question is an interesting one because as

706
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 6: long as you've established people are not in the country legally.

707
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: But that's the thing. Do we trust that they even established.

708
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 6: To establish that, That's what I'm saying, Yeah, I haven't

709
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 6: seen enough, frankly from the White House to just trust

710
00:35:56,239 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 6: that they established that, especially frankly after the Khalila grass Rest,

711
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 6: where they did not know. There's the report of them

712
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:05,319
Speaker 6: on the phone. This is a report from his wife,

713
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 6: who can hear them on the phone being like, oh okay,

714
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 6: well take them in anyway, like that's the exact word anyway.

715
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 6: So no, I mean I don't have a ton of

716
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 6: trust in the government. So why I always say the

717
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 6: most hillbilly thing that jade Vance has ever said is

718
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 6: that he hates the cops.

719
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 5: Get the apologize for it.

720
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 6: But it was like an old post of his yes,

721
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 6: and yeah it's yeah, I mean I don't disagree with that.

722
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 6: I also think it's fairly important to get a hold

723
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 6: of the eight million people, and that's going to make

724
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:39,400
Speaker 6: for some really unfortunate and sad and heart wrenching stories.

725
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 6: But you know these if people are legitimately members of

726
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 6: trend Ragua, you know, the government should make that very clear.

727
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 5: They should show what their evidence is.

728
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 6: Otherwise it's like you're just throwing people to El Salvador.

729
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 5: So yeah, I don't That was a.

730
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 4: Very real moment from from jade Vance because that is

731
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 4: one of the key divides is of where you are

732
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,760
Speaker 4: in your in a soak and basically a social classes.

733
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 4: When you see a copy, do you get scared, do

734
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,280
Speaker 4: you not care or or do you feel more comfortable?

735
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 6: Yep?

736
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,720
Speaker 4: And the feel, the immediate feeling that you get puts

737
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 4: you in a very particular place, and for Jdvans to

738
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 4: understand that he should then understand that when you see

739
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 4: that cop, that cop should not have the unilateral power

740
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 4: to pick you up, hood you and send you to

741
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 4: All Salvador to be tortured and then figure out later

742
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 4: whether or not they did it right.

743
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:36,439
Speaker 5: I think Sager was getting at this the other day.

744
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 6: But I think one of the tough things here is

745
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 6: I care significantly more about the fact that Joe Biden

746
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 6: let in eight million migrants than I do about And

747
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 6: that's not to say I don't care about both.

748
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 1: You can care about how met that point too. I

749
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 1: don't understand that point.

750
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 4: It's like, okay, okay, that's you can hate that, but

751
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 4: like it is what it is like now here we

752
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 4: are do we have or are we country of civil

753
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 4: liberties and constitutional protectionis or not? The part that kills me,

754
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 4: Like it's all the problems I have with the United States.

755
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:10,840
Speaker 4: At least we have these civil liberties. That's always the

756
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 4: thing that has separated us from the rest of the world.

757
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 4: The First Amendment, the Fifth Amendment, the Fourth Amendment, all

758
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 4: of these different protections that we have against tyranny. We

759
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,399
Speaker 4: don't get universal health care, we don't get a decent

760
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 4: minimum wage. Yeah, we have complete total economic procarity, but

761
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 4: at least we have these other things.

762
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: If we don't get that, then just give us China, like,

763
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: just give us some economic security. Then if we're going

764
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 1: to live in a totalitarian government without any individual freedoms,

765
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 1: I think.

766
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 6: The point Scacer was making either about the left broadly,

767
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 6: not about even Crystal, is that sometimes it feels like

768
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 6: concern trolling that after eight million plus people coming illegally,

769
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 6: you have case studies like Lake and Riley, and the

770
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 6: left is most angry. I'm not saying this about you,

771
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 6: but like that's what I think people are reacting to.

772
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 6: The left is furious about potential likely illeg lemore's not

773
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 6: getting due process right.

774
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 4: The left gets angry about different things than the right.

775
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 4: Like that shouldn't be news to people.

776
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 6: But part of our civil liberties are based on having

777
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 6: the rule of law. And as soon as you start

778
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 6: eroding the rule of law and letting people hide out

779
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 6: in sanctuary cities over the course of years, that's a

780
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 6: significant I mean, that's a significant threat to civil liberties

781
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 6: of Americans, a significant threat to like and Riley and

782
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 6: to other people who have found themselves in.

783
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,280
Speaker 5: The crosshairs of this. So I mean.

784
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 6: That is legitimately tough for me. I think it is

785
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 6: possible to care about both. I do care about, like

786
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:40,800
Speaker 6: genuinely care about not disappearing people into a Salvadorian prison.

787
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 4: I also, I mean, you can't put these guys in

788
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:45,360
Speaker 4: front of a judge and be like, here's how we

789
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 4: know they're part of a gang.

790
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 5: Or at least put the evidence out, like let the

791
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 5: public know how you know that.

792
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:54,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I would, I mean preferably before you

793
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 4: send them to the dungeon.

794
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, just don't send them to Al Salvador for

795
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:02,360
Speaker 6: it was a stupid a little bit. It's a stupid stunt.

796
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,879
Speaker 6: It's just Yes, I don't disagree with that at all. Well,

797
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 6: I guess we've found some common ground there.

798
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 4: We go against no extraordinary renditions to torture chambers, right.

799
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 6: So let's stop fueling the boukel A pr stunts.

800
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 5: That would be great.

801
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 6: Let's move on to this Brian Dropsite reporting out of

802
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 6: Gaza over the past couple of days, and we have

803
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 6: some incredible guests, hopefully two guests, but at least one

804
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 6: guest lined.

805
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 1: Up for today's segment.

806
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 4: We're fortunate enough to be joined by Abu Baker Abed

807
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 4: joining us from Gaza, and Shreif abdel Caduce, editor at

808
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 4: drop Site News often edits pieces by Abu Baker Abed.

809
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 1: Thank you so much to both of you for joining us.

810
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 11: Now you have wo com Thank you and.

811
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 1: So Abu Bacher.

812
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,359
Speaker 4: We had an entire segment planned out where we want

813
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 4: to talk about all the different updates that have been

814
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 4: happening in the last couple of days. But then this

815
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 4: morning you witnessed news that is now kind of trickling

816
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 4: into the international consciousness, which was this shelling of a

817
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:12,800
Speaker 4: UN building.

818
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 1: So can you can you.

819
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 4: Describe for us where you were, why you were there,

820
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:20,800
Speaker 4: and what you saw.

821
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 11: Yeah, the first thing that you have to know is

822
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 11: that Israeli tanks have been chilling ceaselessly thecent parts of Derribella,

823
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:35,320
Speaker 11: so very expectedly. We know that the buildings along the

824
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 11: eastern outscuts we had why those shells. Eleven thirty I

825
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 11: was out for an emergency exactly eleven thirty in the

826
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:48,880
Speaker 11: morning Gauzza time, and I was along Salahadeen Road on

827
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,320
Speaker 11: the eastern outskirts of Derbella. Then I had a massive

828
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 11: shell which is like a booing sound, a very very

829
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 11: horrifying sound, and it flew over the card which I

830
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 11: was in and then it had uan compound and we

831
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:08,359
Speaker 11: saw the smoke, the cloud of smoke that emanated or

832
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 11: went out from the belt in itself. And after that

833
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 11: we went all the way along the Salahadeen road and

834
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:21,359
Speaker 11: we saw one of the two convoys two vehicles of

835
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 11: the World Health Organization along with the U and convoy

836
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,839
Speaker 11: were one of the vehicles of them, so three vehicles

837
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 11: and another ambulance which had a UK our UK logo

838
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 11: on it, so it was it was for a medical

839
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:44,280
Speaker 11: organization based in Okay, which is cured US. And the foreigners,

840
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 11: the foreigners, the medical staffers from outside cars that they've

841
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 11: come in to take the casualties in their rushed to

842
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 11: a lax Marto's hospital in Delnbella and just surrounded the

843
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 11: place and they took the casualties. So understand that what

844
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:02,800
Speaker 11: we saw is that one of the foreign workers was killed,

845
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 11: five were injured. But we have another report that another

846
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 11: one was killed as well. But so far we understand

847
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 11: that one was killed, four were injured. And this is

848
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 11: what happened until the place for one hour of one

849
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,840
Speaker 11: complete hour, we saw, I saw the events myself, and

850
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 11: I saw everything, so it was very clear it was

851
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 11: a shell by Israeli tanks. And the arbitrary shilling has

852
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 11: even caused many casualties over the past two days, so

853
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 11: it's very expected.

854
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 4: And the IDF is firmly and plainly denying that they

855
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 4: struck this, that they struck this UN building. How can

856
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 4: you how can you be sure that it was a

857
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 4: UN building that you saw get hit? How could you

858
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:45,800
Speaker 4: be there was an IF shell?

859
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 11: Yeah, there were. There were flags of you and over it.

860
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,439
Speaker 11: And we know since the UN got into Gaza, they

861
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:57,840
Speaker 11: have marked their places with either fences or flags of

862
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,319
Speaker 11: the place and with their vehicles parking in front of

863
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 11: those buildings. And we understand that this is not the

864
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,879
Speaker 11: only building inside the real Bella because since the start

865
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 11: of the war on Gaza as Gaza, as we wrote

866
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 11: to drop Side News with ref the first story, we

867
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 11: reduced together that de Rebella has the last standing city

868
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 11: in the BC's territory. So the U and and the

869
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 11: other international humanitary organizations make sure that they are going

870
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 11: to be stationed in the most or in the safest

871
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 11: place inside Garza that is Derel Bellach, which has been

872
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 11: the least head of the course of the genocide. That's

873
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 11: why it's not the only building. We have our Hustines Street,

874
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 11: which is in the middle of the real Ballad that

875
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 11: has several organizations like WFB and Honora as well as you.

876
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 11: And but the fact is that this was along in

877
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 11: Alberque area, along the eastern outskirts of the Ballad, the

878
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 11: eastern part, and it was marked clearly with flags, and

879
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 11: there were cars parked outside the parked outside the building

880
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:59,839
Speaker 11: with clear logo like emplacent with logos of the U.

881
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,319
Speaker 11: And at the same time the building itself has many

882
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:05,879
Speaker 11: flags over it, so it was clear that you I'm

883
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 11: building and I know by the way from before this

884
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 11: attack and before this head, I was very aware of

885
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 11: all buildings that are working inside the back because I'm

886
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,919
Speaker 11: in the city and have been observing that over time,

887
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 11: and they know where the buildings are, the organizations that

888
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 11: were Yeah, that's why I left. That's why I'm telling

889
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 11: you that was clearly you building in Israel hit it.

890
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,319
Speaker 11: But I think Israel as making the point based on

891
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 11: the arbitrary shilling that they did not deliberately hit it,

892
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 11: and this is something I might agree with because it's

893
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 11: been arbituaries. I'm telling you, it's been random. So that's

894
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 11: why they are claiming right now that they haven't hit

895
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 11: the pace, but are really in the end, even if

896
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 11: you purposefully or or not purposefully hit the place, it

897
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 11: is you. It's a tank from your side, so it's

898
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 11: not going to be on the other side. Because amass

899
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 11: again has a fight back as single pology in Israel

900
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:00,799
Speaker 11: on Israel, despite the fact that they have killed more

901
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 11: than four hundred and twenty people in because over the

902
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 11: course of the past two days. This is apart from

903
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 11: the fact that they have killed one hundred and fifty

904
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 11: during the cease fire. So it's very clear that they

905
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 11: hit this place. They must be held accountable for it,

906
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 11: and they really must. I don't know what they have

907
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 11: to do, but of course Israel it's responsible for that,

908
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 11: and they can make sure that of that because I

909
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:23,960
Speaker 11: was in the place and I saw that myself. So

910
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 11: there is no way that this can be debunked at

911
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 11: all because in the place and it survived it very

912
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 11: very miraculously.

913
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,759
Speaker 6: And sure, if what can you tell us about the

914
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:37,399
Speaker 6: I guess what we're hearing from Israel, what we're hearing

915
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 6: from other involved parties. You know, the first person story

916
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:46,319
Speaker 6: they're from Amba Baker is unbelievable, and having reporting from him,

917
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 6: what else do we know about how other people are

918
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,839
Speaker 6: reacting or other entities are reacting to what happened.

919
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:57,399
Speaker 12: Well to this story. The news is just coming out.

920
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 12: So far, the only official statement we have is from

921
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 12: the Ministry of Health saying that one person was killed

922
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 12: and four were injured in an attack on what they

923
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:08,359
Speaker 12: described as you in facility, and these really military denying that.

924
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 12: But we have to say that this comes in context

925
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 12: of this renewed genocide within a genocide that began yesterday

926
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 12: with Israel, you know, unleashing one of the deadliest wave

927
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 12: of bombardment since this began seventeen months ago. The Ministry

928
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 12: of Health just put out the latest figures. Over the

929
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:30,919
Speaker 12: past two days, four hundred and thirty people have been killed,

930
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,880
Speaker 12: including over one hundred and eighty children, which is one

931
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:37,320
Speaker 12: of the highest death holls of children in a single

932
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 12: wave of airstrikes ever. And you know, once again we

933
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 12: are timelines were filled with the images of dead children,

934
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,360
Speaker 12: of dead babies, of families being wiped out of the

935
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:53,320
Speaker 12: whales and shrieks of parents, and it came without warning,

936
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 12: and it came across all areas of Gaza, very heavily,

937
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 12: in the north of Gaza, where the Minstery of Health

938
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 12: has also put out the kind of numbers of where

939
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 12: people were killed, and it was one hundred and fifty

940
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:12,840
Speaker 12: six people were killed in Gaza, the Governorate of Gaza,

941
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 12: which is where Gaza City is and Jabellia. This is

942
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:19,360
Speaker 12: an area that was already completely devastated by the Israeli

943
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 12: military assault. And it's also the area where over half

944
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 12: a million Palestinians had returned to following the seasfire, many

945
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:33,240
Speaker 12: of them returning and with no like creating makeshift shelters

946
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 12: of putting tents on the rubble of their homes, and

947
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 12: that's where they're living. And this is the area that

948
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:42,280
Speaker 12: was heavily bombed yesterday. And you know, I was Buckra

949
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 12: called me when all of this began, and we spoke

950
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:50,240
Speaker 12: and he was seeing helicopters flying low outside of his window,

951
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 12: relentless strikes and so forth. The next morning I contacted

952
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 12: another drop Side contributor, Hasam Schabbat, who's in bit Hanun,

953
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 12: which is all the way in the northeast an edge

954
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:04,320
Speaker 12: of Gaza. He replied with one word death.

955
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:05,760
Speaker 1: That's what he wrote.

956
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 12: Another Drop Side contributor, journalist Russia Bujalel, who is among

957
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 12: those people who went from Deer to Ballach to Gaza

958
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 12: city after the ceasefire went into effect, an air strike

959
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 12: hit right next to her home, collapsed onto her home.

960
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 12: She somehow miraculously survived with her husband and five children,

961
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 12: and she wrote a dispatch for that on drop site

962
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:29,479
Speaker 12: that you can read. But you know, and I think

963
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 12: it's important to understand when we're talking about context, this

964
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 12: seems to have been Israel's plan all along. You know,

965
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:39,719
Speaker 12: the seasefire that went into effect, that was agreed on

966
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 12: and went into effect in January nineteenth. This was supposed

967
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 12: to be a three phase deal, the first phase being

968
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 12: forty two days. But we know that Israel was really

969
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:50,879
Speaker 12: only intending for this to be a phase one deal.

970
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 12: As of Bboker mentioned, we saw them violate the seasefire

971
00:49:55,280 --> 00:50:00,319
Speaker 12: nearly every single day since January nineteenth, killing Palestine in

972
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 12: Gaza on a regular basis. Of over one hundred and

973
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 12: fifty have been killed even before this massive aerial assault

974
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:09,840
Speaker 12: on Tuesday, morning, They refused to allow in the agreed

975
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 12: upon number of tents in Tagaza. They did not allow

976
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 12: in a single mobile home as agreed upon in the deal.

977
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:20,280
Speaker 12: They didn't allow builldozers and other forms of reconstruction equipment.

978
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:23,799
Speaker 12: And during all of this they also refused to hold

979
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 12: negotiations on Phase two. And Phase two the negotiations was

980
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 12: supposed to start in February third, and it was supposed

981
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:34,360
Speaker 12: to entail the release of all the remaining Israeli captives

982
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 12: in exchange for a substantive number of Palestinians being held

983
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:42,720
Speaker 12: by Israel, the complete withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza,

984
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:45,319
Speaker 12: and the beginning of a permanent ceasefire. And this is

985
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:48,879
Speaker 12: something that Niahu has said plainly that they do not want.

986
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 12: Hamas spent weeks calling for serious talks on the second

987
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 12: phase to begin. Israel simply did not allow the negotiations

988
00:50:56,600 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 12: to go forward. After the first phase ended. In early March,

989
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:04,839
Speaker 12: Nataniahu said, Israel agreed to what has been described as

990
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:08,719
Speaker 12: a new US proposal in which Hamas would release half

991
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 12: the remaining captives that it has in return for a

992
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 12: seven week extension, and kind of that's it. Nothing in return,

993
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:17,920
Speaker 12: and of course this was not part of the agreement

994
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 12: that was set Hamas rejected that, and then you know,

995
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 12: Israel reinforced a total blockade on March second. Not a

996
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:28,320
Speaker 12: single truck has been allowed into Gaza for the past

997
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 12: seventeen days. No food, no medicine, no fuel. They cut

998
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 12: electricity which affected a desalination plant, which severely limited the

999
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:42,359
Speaker 12: availability of water to hundreds of thousands of people, mostly

1000
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 12: in the Rebellachnunis. Prices are skyrocketing people can afford. So

1001
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:50,400
Speaker 12: this is that, you know, a policy for starvation that

1002
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 12: is being reimposed, and we reported at drop site they

1003
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:57,920
Speaker 12: also have started denying doctors in international humanitarian aid workers

1004
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:02,719
Speaker 12: entry into Gaza on relief missions unprecedented rates. And then

1005
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:06,400
Speaker 12: you know, on Tuesday we saw this deadliest wave of bombardments.

1006
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 12: And we've also seen that the Israeli militaries as sent

1007
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 12: out ordering people to evacuate, mostly along eastern Gossapa near

1008
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 12: the border in places like bit Hanun, places like Rosin

1009
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 12: and hanunis forcing people into the center of the territory.

1010
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 12: And this indicates that Israel is renewing plans for ground

1011
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 12: operations because this is what we saw last time, and

1012
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 12: today we have the Wall Street Journal reporting citing you know,

1013
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 12: Israeli security sources that they are planning to escalate a

1014
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 12: major ground operation using an even bigger force that they

1015
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:44,279
Speaker 12: used last time, because much of the manpower that they

1016
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:47,839
Speaker 12: needed on the northern border with Lebanon they don't need

1017
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:51,480
Speaker 12: that there anymore because the attacks with Husbal Law have ceased.

1018
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 12: So you know, this is where it stands now and

1019
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:57,240
Speaker 12: it's it's very ominous.

1020
00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:57,920
Speaker 1: And a obacca.

1021
00:52:57,920 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 4: You were telling me just before you came on that

1022
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 4: that your indications were as well that it looks like

1023
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:06,960
Speaker 4: a ground another ground invasion is underway. What are you

1024
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:11,279
Speaker 4: seeing that makes you believe that what the Israelis we're

1025
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 4: telling the Wall Street Journal is accurate.

1026
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:18,400
Speaker 11: Yeah, because I think the shelling has intensified over the

1027
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:21,160
Speaker 11: past twelve hours, particularly during the night hours, as we've

1028
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 11: been hearing that it's not all about this because when

1029
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:27,239
Speaker 11: we see like the plumes of smoke from the skyline

1030
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:29,719
Speaker 11: view that we're seeing at the moment because or have

1031
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:31,920
Speaker 11: a highest point, I have one of the high spots

1032
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 11: that it can really climb up and see the sky

1033
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 11: from wearing out departments. So the eastern parts of the

1034
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 11: Aribella need to remind people that they have been utterly

1035
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 11: oblterated during the genocide. In the israeliancursion of East A

1036
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 11: Rebella last August twenty twenty four, every place, every ench

1037
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 11: in the eastern parts of Therebella was totally annihilated, didn't

1038
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 11: flat into the ground. And at the same time, when

1039
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 11: you see this, you know, when you see this increase

1040
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 11: of attacks and this increase of shells across those regions,

1041
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:04,280
Speaker 11: you feel that there is going to be a military

1042
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:07,040
Speaker 11: ground operation, not necessarily in the revalat because in the

1043
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:09,160
Speaker 11: eastern parts and at the same time shere we've told

1044
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:12,640
Speaker 11: you that the eastern parts and the northern border regions

1045
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:15,960
Speaker 11: of Gaza and Honey Units. When we took about high units,

1046
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:18,120
Speaker 11: we took about three areas in the east can units,

1047
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 11: which is which are near the borders like Abasan and Venezuela.

1048
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 11: So they have ordered all people living there to evacuate.

1049
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 11: That means they are preparing from military ground operation, the

1050
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:32,560
Speaker 11: same as having the bit Layah and here there and

1051
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:35,479
Speaker 11: central Gaza, the northern regions and Olbrich Camp. And in fact,

1052
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:38,279
Speaker 11: the fact is that during the ceasefire, when we talk

1053
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 11: about the ceasefire, the so called seas fire. Israel has

1054
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:45,000
Speaker 11: called many people, over twenty people in Oldberich camps northern regions,

1055
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:47,480
Speaker 11: and I went one time to those places and I

1056
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:52,880
Speaker 11: saw military forces there myself in Alberich Camp Northern as.

1057
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:54,799
Speaker 1: The violation of the fire agreement right now, Yeah, and.

1058
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:57,040
Speaker 11: During the violations of this is fire. This is absolutely

1059
00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:01,560
Speaker 11: a big, big indicator of an intent to military for

1060
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:04,799
Speaker 11: military ground operations. Let me just because I wanted to

1061
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:06,960
Speaker 11: make sure that I remember this or I mentioned this

1062
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 11: because here we've talked about that, we talked about the

1063
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:14,360
Speaker 11: incident of attacking you in convoy. Now this really military

1064
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 11: has given approval for the entry of one of the

1065
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:20,400
Speaker 11: ambulances from outside Gods or the Egyptian border to help

1066
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:24,160
Speaker 11: treat the patients, the foreign patients inside Gods and take

1067
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 11: them outside Gods of the treatment. When the attacks happened,

1068
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:32,120
Speaker 11: the convoys that were taking children, injured children, women who

1069
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:35,839
Speaker 11: have been waiting desperately for evacuation, for medical evacuation during

1070
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:40,360
Speaker 11: the past fifteen months has halted. And the whow the

1071
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:44,360
Speaker 11: humanitary organizations haven't done any haven't really exerted any efforts

1072
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 11: to make sure that this process can be resumed. So

1073
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 11: when you talk about this that the lives of foreigners

1074
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:53,360
Speaker 11: are much better or more important than the Palaestini children,

1075
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:57,359
Speaker 11: women who have been I've been suffering every single day

1076
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:03,880
Speaker 11: and people are and that comparison of so why the

1077
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:08,759
Speaker 11: WHO and the humanitary organizations have worked so hard to

1078
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 11: make sure that they are going to take the patients,

1079
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:14,799
Speaker 11: the foreign patients, or the war wanted from their workers,

1080
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:17,640
Speaker 11: the foreign workers outside Canso. But when it comes to Palestinians,

1081
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:22,080
Speaker 11: we're talking about more than twelve thousand patients inside Gaza.

1082
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:25,960
Speaker 11: They are in disperate need of evacuator right now. Forty

1083
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:28,839
Speaker 11: percent of them have been have died, and many of

1084
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:32,720
Speaker 11: them five to ten have died when they reached the

1085
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:36,799
Speaker 11: hospitals outside Garsa, like Egyptian Jordan, because of the continuous

1086
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 11: procrastination Manisulian military and the delays and the restrictions. This

1087
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:43,359
Speaker 11: is a very very important point. And we took about

1088
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:46,839
Speaker 11: another point that she have mentioned and quite elaborated on

1089
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:50,880
Speaker 11: the overpricing. Right now, there are completely different prices we

1090
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:51,279
Speaker 11: talk about.

1091
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:53,240
Speaker 4: Can you talk a little bit about what the effect

1092
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 4: has been of the blockade going back in the place

1093
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:58,360
Speaker 4: on March second, Like, what was it like before and

1094
00:56:58,400 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 4: what's it like now?

1095
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 11: Before the prices were quite reasonable for the entirety of

1096
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:06,759
Speaker 11: the population people could really afford. But right now we

1097
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,920
Speaker 11: took about an onion for two or for five dollars, sorry,

1098
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:13,000
Speaker 11: an appliant for three dollars, a tomato for two dollars.

1099
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:15,959
Speaker 11: We're talking about one of each type. How can people

1100
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:18,480
Speaker 11: really afford? People are fast in here. They are spending

1101
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 11: almost twelve hours without a single without a single plate,

1102
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:25,840
Speaker 11: and at the same time they don't have anything for sure,

1103
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 11: So the both meals that you should have very peacefully

1104
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 11: now they don't have them. A lot of families cannot

1105
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 11: really afford, not all families to have the ability to

1106
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:39,240
Speaker 11: bring their to bring their kids and flood every single day.

1107
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:43,040
Speaker 11: The insanity of these price is now. Right now, as

1108
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 11: I was rowing around and going inside gazas markets here

1109
00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:49,360
Speaker 11: and there are about high unison talking to people from

1110
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 11: northern Gaza. There is not a single bag of flour

1111
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 11: in the territory. There is not a single cooking oil

1112
00:57:56,440 --> 00:57:59,440
Speaker 11: inside the territory. So how can people really cope with that?

1113
00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 11: When there is a cursive there is no single type,

1114
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 11: one single type of fruits is not found inside Gaza.

1115
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:11,880
Speaker 11: Discursive vegetables are insane. We're talking about just very past

1116
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:16,959
Speaker 11: quantities of vegetables like zachinia, like tomatoes, potatoes, and they're

1117
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:21,720
Speaker 11: not even available, and their prices are extremely exorbitant. Like

1118
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 11: you talk about one putata for five dollars, Oh my god,

1119
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:27,360
Speaker 11: how can people really do that? In the United States,

1120
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 11: It's not the same thing. I think you can buy

1121
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 11: a kilo for five dollars. So if people in the

1122
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:33,600
Speaker 11: United States can't really afford that, how can people of

1123
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:37,800
Speaker 11: Gaza who who eighty percent of them eighty percent of

1124
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:40,600
Speaker 11: them have lost their work since the genocide started, and

1125
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:42,880
Speaker 11: they are they have tried to get back to a

1126
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:45,760
Speaker 11: sense of normality when the ceasefire started, but now their

1127
00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:49,280
Speaker 11: hopes are dented, their lives are shattered. You to gain

1128
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:52,200
Speaker 11: I know people very one very important point about this.

1129
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:56,680
Speaker 11: I know people personally that they were searching for the

1130
00:58:56,760 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 11: loved ones under the rubble before the start of the

1131
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:02,920
Speaker 11: series of the tags that were killed yesterday. So instead

1132
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 11: of having retrieving the bodies of their loved ones and

1133
00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 11: their families from under the rabble after they have been

1134
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 11: there and stuck there under the rubble for months. They

1135
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:13,840
Speaker 11: are now killed, and they are now both buried in

1136
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 11: the same graveyard. This arbarity that we're trying to tell

1137
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:19,320
Speaker 11: you and trying to tell the one is what we

1138
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:21,680
Speaker 11: need to talk about. There's nothing about Hans here. There's

1139
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:25,840
Speaker 11: nothing about the ongoing violations and the ongoiving escalation that

1140
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:29,040
Speaker 11: we are living through. Most of the population here like sorry,

1141
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 11: what it really does want to destroying Gaza? I drove

1142
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 11: in northern Gaza, I drove in communits and drove in

1143
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:37,240
Speaker 11: central Gaza. What else is there he wants to destroy?

1144
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:41,520
Speaker 11: In Gaza? There is nothing like utter devastation, utter obliteration

1145
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:43,680
Speaker 11: of every means of life. And there are no buildings.

1146
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:45,760
Speaker 11: People are living in the wreckage of their horns. People

1147
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 11: are trying to salvage the ruins of their arms. How

1148
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:50,920
Speaker 11: how what do you want to destroy? Really? Really, what

1149
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:52,600
Speaker 11: do you want to destroy? What do you want at home?

1150
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:53,960
Speaker 11: Do you want to kill? You want to kill the

1151
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:56,520
Speaker 11: entire population? Do it with a new clubal bound. That's

1152
00:59:56,560 --> 00:59:58,520
Speaker 11: what people want because they cannot really take any more

1153
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:02,000
Speaker 11: seconds of this brit in, this Polgorism. It can't really

1154
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:03,640
Speaker 11: go on like this, but the word has allowed this.

1155
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 11: Our world has allowed this in the United States because

1156
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:09,200
Speaker 11: I told you I need to remind you bout Ryan

1157
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:12,080
Speaker 11: and Emily. We talked about tron Blost November. I told

1158
01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:13,920
Speaker 11: you that he's not good. He's not going to get

1159
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:16,760
Speaker 11: he's not going to be good for Palestine, he's not

1160
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 11: going to do anything. He's not someone who wants to

1161
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:21,480
Speaker 11: stop WAS. He wants to break out WAS and that's

1162
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:23,360
Speaker 11: what we are seeing right now. And we talk about

1163
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:27,080
Speaker 11: his clients to ethnically Clan's cass. So this is absolutely

1164
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:30,439
Speaker 11: share hypocrisy and shared poperism that we haven't seen before.

1165
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:32,920
Speaker 11: And he's much much worse than Joe Biden. That's my vote.

1166
01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:35,200
Speaker 6: Sure, if I actually wanted to ask you about that,

1167
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:39,480
Speaker 6: because as people try to maybe find, you know, or

1168
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:42,040
Speaker 6: think about where there might be a light at the end.

1169
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:45,160
Speaker 5: Of the tunnel that would turn to politics.

1170
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:50,200
Speaker 6: And I'm curious what you make about how potential ground

1171
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 6: invasion it sounds like from both of your reporting and

1172
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:56,960
Speaker 6: as Ryan mentioned, that does seem to be on the horizon.

1173
01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:00,760
Speaker 6: How does that affect the Trump ad minute stration, which

1174
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:04,560
Speaker 6: Donald Trump has been unorthodox in some ways, criticizing nt

1175
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:11,520
Speaker 6: Nyahu for quote public relations crisis, He's obviously sensitive to seeing,

1176
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:15,600
Speaker 6: you know, the awful images and stories like Abba Baker

1177
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 6: is just there people being pulled from the rubble and

1178
01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:21,600
Speaker 6: being killed while they're trying to pull their own deceased

1179
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:25,880
Speaker 6: loved ones from the rubble. At the same time he is,

1180
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:29,160
Speaker 6: you know, has Mike Huckabee and you know Tom Cotton

1181
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:33,200
Speaker 6: surrounding him. So it's just a it's so so very

1182
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:36,840
Speaker 6: hard to predict, but you followed this closely. What could happen?

1183
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:41,480
Speaker 6: I guess politically if if Israel does move back into

1184
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 6: a ground invasion.

1185
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:47,640
Speaker 1: Well, as you mentioned, Trump is very hard to read.

1186
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:51,760
Speaker 12: He you know, says things, kind of shoots off the cuffs, says,

1187
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:54,160
Speaker 12: you know, we're going to think that Cleton's guzza, and

1188
01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:56,760
Speaker 12: then kind of seems bored about it and doesn't mention it. Again,

1189
01:01:57,120 --> 01:01:59,520
Speaker 12: It's hard to know where he stands. I think we

1190
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:02,560
Speaker 12: do have to acknowledge that the initial sees fire phase

1191
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:04,400
Speaker 12: that did go into effect. I don't think it would

1192
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:08,280
Speaker 12: have happened unless Trump was president. He wanted, you know,

1193
01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:10,280
Speaker 12: sometimes he does the right things for the wrong reasons,

1194
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:13,320
Speaker 12: and he wanted some kind of optics for the day

1195
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:18,000
Speaker 12: before his inauguration and you know, him and his envoice,

1196
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:21,120
Speaker 12: Steven Whitcoff, did kind of force this through where the

1197
01:02:21,120 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 12: Biden administration completely failed in that and just allowed Israel

1198
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:25,400
Speaker 12: to continue.

1199
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:28,360
Speaker 5: And Witkoff went to Gaza, talked to Hamas. People didn't

1200
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:28,960
Speaker 5: want him to do that.

1201
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:30,960
Speaker 6: He's sort of willing to push the envelope, I guess

1202
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:32,600
Speaker 6: a little bit more than a conventional.

1203
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:35,720
Speaker 12: One in the US is negotiating directly with Hamas now,

1204
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:39,920
Speaker 12: although apparently the Biden administration did that briefly as well.

1205
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:44,920
Speaker 12: But you know, after these attacks on Tuesday, the Israel

1206
01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:46,960
Speaker 12: said that they had received the green light from the

1207
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:50,760
Speaker 12: White House. The White House has voice it's approval of

1208
01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:57,080
Speaker 12: this new stage of Israel's assault on Gaza. Natania who

1209
01:02:57,120 --> 01:02:59,440
Speaker 12: took to the airwaves and said that this attack was

1210
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:02,880
Speaker 12: only the beginning. Those are his world, his words, and

1211
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:07,560
Speaker 12: that all further negotiations about the ceasefire will take place

1212
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:11,280
Speaker 12: under quote under fire. So this is all happening with

1213
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:14,160
Speaker 12: the approval of the White House. So it does seem

1214
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:18,360
Speaker 12: that we're entering kind of this new normal phase where

1215
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:22,520
Speaker 12: Israel is going to attack in these different ways. We

1216
01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 12: may be seeing the beginnings of a major ground operation

1217
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:29,480
Speaker 12: and that's where the negotiations are going to be. There

1218
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:33,120
Speaker 12: isn't going to be you know, the second stage of

1219
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:37,360
Speaker 12: a seasefire, any talk of a permanent halt to the conflict,

1220
01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:42,240
Speaker 12: any talk of permanent withdrawal. As I said, like at

1221
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:44,520
Speaker 12: the same time, Stephen Woodcoff in his comments over these

1222
01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:48,520
Speaker 12: past few weeks, seemed much more reasonable than Anthony Blincoln

1223
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:50,960
Speaker 12: was as Secretary of State under the Biden administration. He

1224
01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:55,600
Speaker 12: was saying things that seemed reasonable about Palestinians will be

1225
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:57,800
Speaker 12: allowed to return to Gaza, that we will get to

1226
01:03:57,840 --> 01:04:01,160
Speaker 12: a permanent cease fire, that we do need to re built. However,

1227
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:05,400
Speaker 12: none of this this seems to have all broken down,

1228
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:12,640
Speaker 12: and basically Israel has completely, uh it violated the ceasefire,

1229
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:14,640
Speaker 12: made very clear that it was never going to get

1230
01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:17,160
Speaker 12: past this first phase. And now we're kind of we're

1231
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:20,160
Speaker 12: seeing what everyone predicted, a massive re engagement of this

1232
01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:24,480
Speaker 12: violence and trying to force Hamas to release all of

1233
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:28,240
Speaker 12: the captives, which I don't think Hamas would do there

1234
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 12: if there's nothing in return. And so you know, we're

1235
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:34,480
Speaker 12: in a in a moment now of just increased violence

1236
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:36,880
Speaker 12: and death. They were just you know, as a book

1237
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:40,040
Speaker 12: is describing these attacks. There was this incredible wave the

1238
01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:42,520
Speaker 12: other day, but they're they're continuing all throughout today. They

1239
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:48,080
Speaker 12: bombed tents in moas Can units, killing a family there,

1240
01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:52,160
Speaker 12: and yeah, it's it's it's very it's quite frightening to

1241
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:53,120
Speaker 12: see where this could go.

1242
01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:58,800
Speaker 4: We'll put Abu Baker's dispatch down in the notes, as

1243
01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:01,480
Speaker 4: as well as some of the other pieces, including Sharif's

1244
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:04,400
Speaker 4: recent peace about you know, doctors and nurses being being

1245
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:06,960
Speaker 4: kept out of Gaza. But Sharif, thank you so much

1246
01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:10,080
Speaker 4: for joining us, and Abu Baker, you know, please please

1247
01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:10,920
Speaker 4: stay safe.

1248
01:05:10,680 --> 01:05:12,960
Speaker 1: And thank you for all you're doing for us.

1249
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:20,000
Speaker 4: After Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer cave to Republicans allowing

1250
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:23,240
Speaker 4: the spending bill to go through, blocking Democrats from their

1251
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:26,640
Speaker 4: effort to force a government shut down, things have gone

1252
01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:29,440
Speaker 4: from bad to worse from as he has canceled his

1253
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:34,160
Speaker 4: book tour, citing security concerns but citing actually there would

1254
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:36,680
Speaker 4: have been a bunch of protesters yelling at him from

1255
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:39,920
Speaker 4: the left from the Democratic Party at his events, and

1256
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:43,800
Speaker 4: now Nancy Pelosi is clowning him for his failure to

1257
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:44,360
Speaker 4: do his job.

1258
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:46,840
Speaker 1: Let's roll the former House Speaker here.

1259
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:50,880
Speaker 13: Well, I'm concernative as the next time, concernative.

1260
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:50,920
Speaker 7: Of the future.

1261
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:53,880
Speaker 13: Last week was the last week. We're long edge to

1262
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:54,480
Speaker 13: the future.

1263
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:56,600
Speaker 10: And this morning King.

1264
01:05:56,560 --> 01:06:03,600
Speaker 14: Jeff's Chuck Schumer in this kind of an event in

1265
01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:07,960
Speaker 14: New York where I came, said that he had companies

1266
01:06:08,120 --> 01:06:10,960
Speaker 14: and shop tumor. So we're to the next stage on

1267
01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:11,600
Speaker 14: this now.

1268
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:15,600
Speaker 13: But your question it is about when comes next.

1269
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:20,040
Speaker 14: I myself don't give away anything for nothing.

1270
01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:23,880
Speaker 15: I think that's what happened the other day.

1271
01:06:24,360 --> 01:06:27,720
Speaker 13: We could have in my who perhaps gotten them to

1272
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:31,880
Speaker 13: agree to a third way, which was a bipartisan CR

1273
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:35,600
Speaker 13: for two week four weeks in which we.

1274
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:40,760
Speaker 15: Could have had bipartisan legislation to go forward. I'm an appropriator,

1275
01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:46,920
Speaker 15: cenistorship is an appropriator, and with the Appropriations Committee, they

1276
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:49,440
Speaker 15: may not have agreed to it, but at least the

1277
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:51,360
Speaker 15: public would have seen they're.

1278
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:52,640
Speaker 10: Not agreeing to it.

1279
01:06:53,240 --> 01:06:55,000
Speaker 4: The plan she laid out there, by the way, is

1280
01:06:55,040 --> 01:06:58,400
Speaker 4: precisely what Republicans did with Biden and a Democratic controlled

1281
01:06:58,400 --> 01:07:01,080
Speaker 4: Congress in twenty twenty one. Chris try to do a

1282
01:07:01,160 --> 01:07:05,720
Speaker 4: partisan CR. Republicans said, no way, we're not participating in that,

1283
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:08,680
Speaker 4: and they forced Democrats to do clean. Sorry, cr So

1284
01:07:08,680 --> 01:07:12,000
Speaker 4: it's not a radical strategy that she's laying out there.

1285
01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:15,440
Speaker 4: Schumer has avoided politics and pros and other bookstores, but

1286
01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:19,000
Speaker 4: he hasn't avoided the cable circuit or the network circuit.

1287
01:07:19,040 --> 01:07:20,560
Speaker 1: Here he is on CBSS.

1288
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:22,760
Speaker 5: In your own party, they're saying, look, it's time for

1289
01:07:22,800 --> 01:07:23,160
Speaker 5: you to go.

1290
01:07:23,240 --> 01:07:25,000
Speaker 11: They're no longer trust your leadership.

1291
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:26,120
Speaker 5: They want somebody else in there.

1292
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:26,960
Speaker 1: What do you say about that?

1293
01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:28,960
Speaker 11: Here's what I say in your own party saying that's

1294
01:07:29,040 --> 01:07:29,240
Speaker 11: to go.

1295
01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:31,920
Speaker 16: Here's what I'm saying. I'm the best leader for the Senate.

1296
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:33,080
Speaker 16: We have a lot of leaders. You know, when you

1297
01:07:33,080 --> 01:07:35,320
Speaker 16: don't have a president, there's not one leader of the party.

1298
01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:36,720
Speaker 1: There are lots of them. We have a lot of

1299
01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:37,280
Speaker 1: good people.

1300
01:07:37,640 --> 01:07:42,720
Speaker 16: But I am the best at keep winning Senate seats.

1301
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:45,440
Speaker 16: I've done it in two thousand and five to just

1302
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:47,360
Speaker 16: in twenty twenty. No one thought we'd take back the

1303
01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:49,040
Speaker 16: Senate under my leadership.

1304
01:07:49,080 --> 01:07:49,600
Speaker 1: We took it.

1305
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:54,080
Speaker 16: So we now are executing going. We have a great

1306
01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:56,960
Speaker 16: we're moving forward. Hakim and I have a plan.

1307
01:07:57,720 --> 01:08:00,120
Speaker 1: Here he is on the view also getting.

1308
01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:02,680
Speaker 17: And it gives me no pleasure to say this to

1309
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:05,040
Speaker 17: you because we are friends. But I think you caved.

1310
01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:07,840
Speaker 17: I think you and nine other Democrats caved. I don't

1311
01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:10,400
Speaker 17: think you showed the fight that this party needs right

1312
01:08:10,440 --> 01:08:13,440
Speaker 17: now because you're playing with by a rule book where

1313
01:08:13,560 --> 01:08:16,240
Speaker 17: the other party has thrown that rule book away. True,

1314
01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:19,400
Speaker 17: and so in my view, what you did really was

1315
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:22,960
Speaker 17: in supporting that gop partisan bill that Democrats had no

1316
01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:26,000
Speaker 17: input in. He cleared the way for Donald Trump and

1317
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:29,760
Speaker 17: Elon Musk to gut Social Security, to gut Medicare, to

1318
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:33,240
Speaker 17: gut Medicaid. Why did you lead Democratic senators to play

1319
01:08:33,280 --> 01:08:36,120
Speaker 17: by that book that the Republicans are not playing by it?

1320
01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:38,880
Speaker 16: Okay, first, I'd say, Sonny, no one wants to fight

1321
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:40,640
Speaker 16: more than me, and no one fights more than me.

1322
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:41,719
Speaker 1: You got to fight smart.

1323
01:08:42,240 --> 01:08:46,160
Speaker 4: And then Jen Zaki former Joe Biden White House spokesperson.

1324
01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:51,040
Speaker 18: Experience is a good thing. It's important, But seniority and

1325
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:54,080
Speaker 18: keeping people in charge simply because they have done it

1326
01:08:54,120 --> 01:08:57,840
Speaker 18: before should not be the only thing. Chuck shar was

1327
01:08:57,840 --> 01:09:00,759
Speaker 18: a hell of a majority leader in his prime urban politics.

1328
01:09:00,760 --> 01:09:04,559
Speaker 18: When he was majority leader, when he was the aggressive Senator,

1329
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:06,559
Speaker 18: when he was the aggressive member of Congress who is

1330
01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:09,800
Speaker 18: dominating media coverage, arm twisting Republicans and members of his

1331
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:14,160
Speaker 18: own party and raising an absolute boatload of money for Democrats.

1332
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:16,960
Speaker 5: But he is not in his prime.

1333
01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:20,519
Speaker 18: The Republican Party is not the party of McCain or

1334
01:09:20,600 --> 01:09:21,920
Speaker 18: Romney or even George W.

1335
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:22,520
Speaker 5: Bush.

1336
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:25,439
Speaker 18: Feels to me like, instead of just making tweets the

1337
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:27,800
Speaker 18: martyrs of the message, which by the way, is important too,

1338
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:30,840
Speaker 18: maybe it's time to spend more time to throwing out

1339
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:32,800
Speaker 18: the hard copy of the old playbook.

1340
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:36,280
Speaker 4: And a pretty fascinating exchange here with MSNBC's Chris Hayes.

1341
01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:39,320
Speaker 19: All of those things you enumerated, which all sounds like

1342
01:09:39,400 --> 01:09:42,519
Speaker 19: good politics to me, are the kinds of things that

1343
01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:45,120
Speaker 19: you'd be doing if Mitt Romney were president. That there's

1344
01:09:45,160 --> 01:09:47,760
Speaker 19: this weird asymmetry right now, which is that they are

1345
01:09:47,800 --> 01:09:51,280
Speaker 19: acting in this totally new way in which they are

1346
01:09:51,320 --> 01:09:54,600
Speaker 19: ambitiously trying to seize all power and create a presidential

1347
01:09:54,600 --> 01:09:57,520
Speaker 19: dictatorship in the United States of America, and the Democratic

1348
01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:00,840
Speaker 19: opposition is acting like, well, if we can get their

1349
01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:03,719
Speaker 19: tool rate down a few points, then what then what happens?

1350
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:07,040
Speaker 16: Well, what happens is, look, first we get it way down,

1351
01:10:07,160 --> 01:10:09,240
Speaker 16: he's going to have much lef we this worked in

1352
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:12,160
Speaker 16: twenty seventeen you say, now it's a different government. It's

1353
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:15,400
Speaker 16: different though, Oh it is different. God, but healthcare, we

1354
01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:18,200
Speaker 16: beat them. Taxes, we beat him, and guess what we did.

1355
01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:20,400
Speaker 16: Guess what we did, Chris. We took back the House

1356
01:10:20,439 --> 01:10:22,439
Speaker 16: and won in the Senate and that, and then we

1357
01:10:22,439 --> 01:10:24,880
Speaker 16: were allowed to do all those good things. This is

1358
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:27,439
Speaker 16: not the only tactic. We have to stand strong in

1359
01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:30,479
Speaker 16: certain instances and not give them the votes at all.

1360
01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:32,679
Speaker 16: Let me, but there are instances with this the two

1361
01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:33,320
Speaker 16: work together.

1362
01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:35,320
Speaker 4: First of all, I don't know what he means by

1363
01:10:35,320 --> 01:10:37,920
Speaker 4: we beat them on taxes. I truly have no idea

1364
01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:40,000
Speaker 4: what he's through his six trillion dollar tax cuts.

1365
01:10:40,040 --> 01:10:42,040
Speaker 6: He might be talking about some small ball things that

1366
01:10:42,160 --> 01:10:43,000
Speaker 6: we don't even remember.

1367
01:10:43,200 --> 01:10:46,120
Speaker 4: Or maybe he means because he doesn't care about policy,

1368
01:10:46,200 --> 01:10:48,800
Speaker 4: maybe he means, yeah, they let them pass the tax

1369
01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:51,120
Speaker 4: cut bill and it hurt them in the midterms.

1370
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:52,880
Speaker 1: And so we beat them. That's what he means on

1371
01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:54,839
Speaker 1: the wow, on the issue of taxes.

1372
01:10:55,120 --> 01:10:58,800
Speaker 6: If that's what he means, we're another level of metah.

1373
01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:04,240
Speaker 4: So the reigning critique, as you saw from all of

1374
01:11:04,240 --> 01:11:09,960
Speaker 4: these different mainstream, you know, center left anchors, is that

1375
01:11:10,040 --> 01:11:11,960
Speaker 4: he's out of his prime. He's out of time. He's

1376
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:16,160
Speaker 4: an anachronism. He was very good from two thousand and

1377
01:11:16,240 --> 01:11:19,360
Speaker 4: five to twenty twenty. That's that's a really good run.

1378
01:11:19,640 --> 01:11:22,240
Speaker 4: And he he was he was good at raising money,

1379
01:11:22,840 --> 01:11:26,720
Speaker 4: and he kept Democratics competitive and in a Senate that

1380
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:28,160
Speaker 4: is unbalanced, and.

1381
01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:32,519
Speaker 1: Kept them unified. And it's unbalanced in the sense.

1382
01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:36,280
Speaker 4: That smaller states, small rural states get the same number

1383
01:11:36,280 --> 01:11:39,439
Speaker 4: of reublic of senators as like California and New York

1384
01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:42,800
Speaker 4: get And so you know, you have as as the

1385
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:47,559
Speaker 4: Democratic Party, you have to you know, significantly over perform

1386
01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:50,519
Speaker 4: in order to just stay even to his credit. Yeah,

1387
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:53,720
Speaker 4: like it's yeah, two thousand and six, two thousand and eight,

1388
01:11:55,720 --> 01:11:59,240
Speaker 4: twenty twenty, Yeah, great, but it's now twenty twenty five.

1389
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:04,280
Speaker 4: And to me, the most revealing exchange there was with

1390
01:12:04,400 --> 01:12:08,800
Speaker 4: Hayes where he said it worked in twenty seventeen, so

1391
01:12:09,320 --> 01:12:11,760
Speaker 4: like he's going back to his twenty seventeen playbook.

1392
01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:14,040
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know, what did you think?

1393
01:12:14,160 --> 01:12:20,240
Speaker 4: And how are how are Republicans seeing this, like how

1394
01:12:20,240 --> 01:12:21,439
Speaker 4: do they see his resistance?

1395
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:23,360
Speaker 6: That's a really smart point because I think one of

1396
01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:26,000
Speaker 6: the central divides among Democrats last week was whether or

1397
01:12:26,040 --> 01:12:29,160
Speaker 6: not to recycle the twenty seventeen playbook, which is you

1398
01:12:29,200 --> 01:12:32,800
Speaker 6: look like, from their perspective to voters, the adults.

1399
01:12:32,400 --> 01:12:32,760
Speaker 5: In the room.

1400
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:34,800
Speaker 6: Do everything you can to look like the adults in

1401
01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:37,040
Speaker 6: the room, the people who are not the obstructionists, the

1402
01:12:37,080 --> 01:12:40,760
Speaker 6: people who are serious about doing business, so that you

1403
01:12:40,800 --> 01:12:45,599
Speaker 6: can frame Republicans as the un serious teenagers to quote

1404
01:12:45,600 --> 01:12:48,880
Speaker 6: Alyssa Slocke and kind of should probably equipple with my

1405
01:12:48,960 --> 01:12:51,720
Speaker 6: characterization there. But they're the ones who look like the

1406
01:12:52,680 --> 01:12:58,000
Speaker 6: you know, wild rabble rousers too. That's another quote actually,

1407
01:12:58,360 --> 01:13:01,200
Speaker 6: So I think that that was the playbook in twenty

1408
01:13:01,240 --> 01:13:05,040
Speaker 6: seventeen when Democrats were confident that Trump was going to

1409
01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:09,800
Speaker 6: sort of hoist himself by zone boitard and would inevitably

1410
01:13:10,400 --> 01:13:14,240
Speaker 6: crumble and melt into like a puddle of just political

1411
01:13:14,280 --> 01:13:19,000
Speaker 6: and viability. And that never happened, partially because Democrats never

1412
01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:21,920
Speaker 6: bothered to muster a serious response. Their response was just

1413
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:26,080
Speaker 6: Trump is really bad, and now the question is, okay, so.

1414
01:13:27,000 --> 01:13:29,880
Speaker 5: What are you proactively? What do you want?

1415
01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:34,440
Speaker 6: What do you want from Republicans in a spending bill?

1416
01:13:34,080 --> 01:13:37,080
Speaker 6: You know you weren't going to get it, But the

1417
01:13:37,080 --> 01:13:39,360
Speaker 6: opportunity to shut down the government was an opportunity to

1418
01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:42,320
Speaker 6: fundamentally tell the American people what you think should be

1419
01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:45,600
Speaker 6: in the damn bill? What do you want Republicans to

1420
01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:47,600
Speaker 6: come in the table? Come to the table on So

1421
01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:49,920
Speaker 6: to me, that's that's a great point that it really

1422
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:52,880
Speaker 6: was the split. Do we throw out the quote unquote

1423
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:57,559
Speaker 6: resistance playbook that really banks itself on just resisting, not

1424
01:13:57,720 --> 01:14:01,479
Speaker 6: being sort of proactive about that resist since and you know,

1425
01:14:01,479 --> 01:14:03,160
Speaker 6: we talked about this last week. I think it was

1426
01:14:03,600 --> 01:14:07,760
Speaker 6: an insane, insane failure to learn from the lessons of

1427
01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:12,280
Speaker 6: the Tea Party about shutdowns and about populism, and just

1428
01:14:12,320 --> 01:14:14,840
Speaker 6: a complete wasted opportunity for Democrats. But I think part

1429
01:14:14,880 --> 01:14:18,240
Speaker 6: of it is because Schumer, even invoking the year twenty

1430
01:14:18,280 --> 01:14:21,360
Speaker 6: seventeen there tells me they are still stuck on this

1431
01:14:21,439 --> 01:14:25,639
Speaker 6: idea of just being the smart resistance and not even

1432
01:14:25,760 --> 01:14:27,479
Speaker 6: MSNBC is interested in that anymore.

1433
01:14:27,560 --> 01:14:32,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's certainly true that going into a government

1434
01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:38,040
Speaker 1: shutdown is not without risk for Democrats. Yeah, although you know,

1435
01:14:38,479 --> 01:14:42,200
Speaker 1: I've spoken to a ton of federal workers.

1436
01:14:43,160 --> 01:14:44,880
Speaker 4: You and I live in here in Washington, d C.

1437
01:14:45,320 --> 01:14:46,880
Speaker 4: You know, a lot of the people we meet are

1438
01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:53,479
Speaker 4: federal workers, all of them wanted a government shutdown, even

1439
01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:57,360
Speaker 4: though it meant there was a possibility they might not

1440
01:14:57,439 --> 01:14:58,280
Speaker 4: even get back pay.

1441
01:14:58,360 --> 01:14:59,000
Speaker 1: You know, you could.

1442
01:14:58,880 --> 01:15:01,360
Speaker 4: Imagine Republicans saying, no, our line in the stands, we're

1443
01:15:01,400 --> 01:15:04,519
Speaker 4: not even gonna We're not even gonna do backpay, even

1444
01:15:04,520 --> 01:15:10,160
Speaker 4: though we've done that for every shutdown before. And and

1445
01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:13,280
Speaker 4: despite the fact that there was so much uncertainty around

1446
01:15:13,280 --> 01:15:15,920
Speaker 4: what would happen in a government shutdown, all of them

1447
01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:16,400
Speaker 4: were like.

1448
01:15:16,400 --> 01:15:16,720
Speaker 1: Do it.

1449
01:15:17,479 --> 01:15:19,839
Speaker 4: Just just put up a fight because if the second

1450
01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:24,040
Speaker 4: he passed that cr through the Senate that night, you know,

1451
01:15:24,120 --> 01:15:29,519
Speaker 4: Trump put forward the plans for this you know, massive

1452
01:15:29,560 --> 01:15:30,800
Speaker 4: reduction in force.

1453
01:15:32,400 --> 01:15:33,439
Speaker 1: For you know, put.

1454
01:15:33,240 --> 01:15:36,680
Speaker 4: Out memos saying, you know, just let it's time to

1455
01:15:36,760 --> 01:15:42,400
Speaker 4: absolutely completely gut the federal government to the greatest extent

1456
01:15:42,439 --> 01:15:44,800
Speaker 4: possible by the law. And the law that they had

1457
01:15:44,840 --> 01:15:48,759
Speaker 4: just passed made it that much more, that much easier

1458
01:15:48,760 --> 01:15:52,720
Speaker 4: for them for Trump to accomplish because it included some

1459
01:15:53,240 --> 01:15:55,800
Speaker 4: included some provisions that would allow them to sequester even

1460
01:15:55,880 --> 01:15:59,760
Speaker 4: more money. And because you know, people like russ Vote

1461
01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:04,799
Speaker 4: were we're telegraphing we we don't see this spending figure

1462
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:06,640
Speaker 4: as a mandate. We figure we see it as a

1463
01:16:06,680 --> 01:16:09,360
Speaker 4: sealing we're not going to spend this, and we're going

1464
01:16:09,439 --> 01:16:11,519
Speaker 4: to use the authority that you grant us through this

1465
01:16:11,640 --> 01:16:16,680
Speaker 4: cru to destroy the administrative state. And they did it,

1466
01:16:16,720 --> 01:16:23,479
Speaker 4: and Democrats did it anyway. So and now the whatever

1467
01:16:23,560 --> 01:16:27,639
Speaker 4: is coming at federal at the federal government from Trump

1468
01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:30,080
Speaker 4: in the next couple of weeks I think is going

1469
01:16:30,160 --> 01:16:32,960
Speaker 4: to be very very very bad.

1470
01:16:32,800 --> 01:16:33,679
Speaker 1: For federal workers.

1471
01:16:34,120 --> 01:16:38,240
Speaker 4: Now maybe uh people will you know, maybe you love

1472
01:16:38,280 --> 01:16:43,200
Speaker 4: it as a member of the public, but you know,

1473
01:16:43,240 --> 01:16:45,840
Speaker 4: from the perspective federal workers who who really do believe

1474
01:16:45,840 --> 01:16:48,639
Speaker 4: that the federal government should work, they think it's the thing.

1475
01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:51,320
Speaker 4: It's going to destroy all of these different agencies that

1476
01:16:51,439 --> 01:16:52,800
Speaker 4: do have actual.

1477
01:16:54,200 --> 01:16:57,400
Speaker 1: That they do have actual roles.

1478
01:16:57,120 --> 01:17:02,760
Speaker 4: To play in a functioning government, functioning public. And now

1479
01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:06,719
Speaker 4: they've just kind of seated all at until September yeah

1480
01:17:06,800 --> 01:17:07,320
Speaker 4: to Trump.

1481
01:17:07,720 --> 01:17:08,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, where they.

1482
01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:11,840
Speaker 6: Could have had a fairly easy I don't mean this pejoratively,

1483
01:17:11,880 --> 01:17:12,960
Speaker 6: but a political.

1484
01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:15,880
Speaker 5: Prop to trot out from now until then.

1485
01:17:15,960 --> 01:17:18,000
Speaker 6: And I actually think they would have gotten something small

1486
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:19,280
Speaker 6: from Republicans out of this.

1487
01:17:19,320 --> 01:17:24,599
Speaker 5: And small victories or even that. And Schumer is.

1488
01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:26,040
Speaker 6: Out now saying I don't know if you saw him

1489
01:17:26,080 --> 01:17:28,280
Speaker 6: say this. Republicans were telling him it would have been

1490
01:17:28,320 --> 01:17:31,720
Speaker 6: a six to nine month shutdown. What the hell are

1491
01:17:31,720 --> 01:17:34,479
Speaker 6: you talking about, bro, I don't like, I don't know

1492
01:17:34,520 --> 01:17:38,479
Speaker 6: what Republicans are genuinely telling you that.

1493
01:17:38,640 --> 01:17:39,960
Speaker 5: But they're messing with you, Chuck.

1494
01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:43,439
Speaker 6: It would have been a Saturday Sunday shut down because

1495
01:17:43,840 --> 01:17:44,479
Speaker 6: you could.

1496
01:17:44,280 --> 01:17:46,679
Speaker 5: Have controlled that. What are you talking about?

1497
01:17:46,960 --> 01:17:50,200
Speaker 6: A weekend shutdown was like the lowest risk. It was

1498
01:17:50,240 --> 01:17:52,320
Speaker 6: absolutely a risk, there's no question about it. But for

1499
01:17:52,439 --> 01:17:57,640
Speaker 6: risk averse Democrats, this was like the warmest pool for

1500
01:17:57,720 --> 01:18:00,640
Speaker 6: them to dip their toe into being like actually a

1501
01:18:00,680 --> 01:18:03,880
Speaker 6: party of taking risks, and they couldn't even do that,

1502
01:18:04,280 --> 01:18:07,519
Speaker 6: even when you have EM's, NBC and Nancy Pelosi, Jen Saki,

1503
01:18:08,400 --> 01:18:11,040
Speaker 6: all of these people saying, maybe our strategy needs an update,

1504
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:13,240
Speaker 6: Maybe we actually need to give the bass a shot

1505
01:18:13,280 --> 01:18:15,920
Speaker 6: in the arm here that we can, you know, rally

1506
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:19,479
Speaker 6: hundreds of people at protests over the weekend. We can

1507
01:18:19,680 --> 01:18:23,000
Speaker 6: tell people that we fought, we can get some small concession.

1508
01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:25,679
Speaker 5: They had leverage. They didn't have a lot of leverage,

1509
01:18:25,680 --> 01:18:27,120
Speaker 5: but they had a tiny amount of leverage. And you

1510
01:18:27,160 --> 01:18:28,920
Speaker 5: should use your tiny amount of leverage when you.

1511
01:18:28,880 --> 01:18:32,479
Speaker 6: Have it, otherwise you're gonna make your base more and

1512
01:18:32,520 --> 01:18:33,200
Speaker 6: more angry.

1513
01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:34,839
Speaker 5: And that's Brendan Buck.

1514
01:18:34,880 --> 01:18:35,320
Speaker 1: Buck out.

1515
01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:36,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, we were talking about this.

1516
01:18:36,640 --> 01:18:39,120
Speaker 6: Brendan Buck, who is a Paul Ryan stratagist, wrote not

1517
01:18:39,160 --> 01:18:41,960
Speaker 6: Bad for The New York Times, agreeing with Chuck Schumer,

1518
01:18:42,240 --> 01:18:45,080
Speaker 6: because he was saying that was the successful He said

1519
01:18:45,120 --> 01:18:47,840
Speaker 6: Republicans actually ended up giving too much to the Tea Party,

1520
01:18:47,880 --> 01:18:51,080
Speaker 6: like Republican leadership Paul Ryan, John Bayner were too nice,

1521
01:18:51,120 --> 01:18:54,479
Speaker 6: too indulgent of the Tea Party. It's again, no, the

1522
01:18:54,520 --> 01:18:57,080
Speaker 6: reason you ended up with Trump is because you guys

1523
01:18:57,080 --> 01:18:59,960
Speaker 6: were trying to block the Tea Party, which was representative

1524
01:19:00,160 --> 01:19:05,000
Speaker 6: of your own party's base, your voters. It reminded me

1525
01:19:05,040 --> 01:19:07,840
Speaker 6: of the Sam Goodaldig research paper that we covered about

1526
01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:10,040
Speaker 6: a year ago, where he showed the people from the

1527
01:19:10,120 --> 01:19:13,839
Speaker 6: poorest districts are in the are represented by the Freedom Caucus,

1528
01:19:14,040 --> 01:19:19,000
Speaker 6: and they're represented by Justice Democrats, and that's bipartisan. And

1529
01:19:19,280 --> 01:19:22,240
Speaker 6: these are the people that Washington is trying to treat

1530
01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:25,160
Speaker 6: as unserious. Quote rabble rousers is how Brendan Buck refers

1531
01:19:25,160 --> 01:19:28,320
Speaker 6: to them. So if you want to if you want

1532
01:19:28,320 --> 01:19:32,479
Speaker 6: to judge the wisdom of the Schumer strategy, look no

1533
01:19:32,560 --> 01:19:35,439
Speaker 6: further than the fact that establishment Republicans who now have

1534
01:19:35,600 --> 01:19:38,360
Speaker 6: zero influence in Washington are saying he made.

1535
01:19:38,240 --> 01:19:40,240
Speaker 1: The right move right.

1536
01:19:41,360 --> 01:19:41,559
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1537
01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:45,599
Speaker 4: I mean it goes back to that calculation that some

1538
01:19:45,720 --> 01:19:50,160
Speaker 4: establishment figures and both parties make. Would they rather win

1539
01:19:50,880 --> 01:19:54,599
Speaker 4: but empower their left or right flank? Yeah, or would

1540
01:19:54,720 --> 01:19:58,040
Speaker 4: they rather lose and disempower them? And for Brennan Buck,

1541
01:19:58,479 --> 01:20:02,760
Speaker 4: He'd have rather lost but maintained the cohesion of the

1542
01:20:02,840 --> 01:20:05,240
Speaker 4: kind of chamber of commerce wing of the of the

1543
01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:06,080
Speaker 4: Republican Party.

1544
01:20:06,160 --> 01:20:10,400
Speaker 1: Yep. Maybe Schumer's trying to make that calculation.

1545
01:20:10,400 --> 01:20:15,080
Speaker 4: On the other hand, Schumer's also taking the bullets for

1546
01:20:15,200 --> 01:20:16,520
Speaker 4: his entire caucus.

1547
01:20:16,760 --> 01:20:17,920
Speaker 1: It's not as if.

1548
01:20:19,240 --> 01:20:24,360
Speaker 4: Schumer pushed his caucus to cave like they all wanted

1549
01:20:24,400 --> 01:20:24,680
Speaker 4: a cave.

1550
01:20:24,720 --> 01:20:26,040
Speaker 1: No, I mean not all, not all of them. A

1551
01:20:26,080 --> 01:20:29,920
Speaker 1: lot of them wanted to fight. More than ten wanted

1552
01:20:29,920 --> 01:20:34,439
Speaker 1: to cave, and more than voted to cave wanted to cave.

1553
01:20:35,360 --> 01:20:39,000
Speaker 1: And so Schumer here is being.

1554
01:20:38,800 --> 01:20:43,840
Speaker 4: A kind of good soldier for his his own, you know,

1555
01:20:43,880 --> 01:20:46,920
Speaker 4: cowardly caucus that that wants to cave but wants to

1556
01:20:46,920 --> 01:20:48,840
Speaker 4: pretend that they don't. Now they can be mad, and

1557
01:20:48,880 --> 01:20:50,280
Speaker 4: then they tend to be mad at Schumer.

1558
01:20:50,280 --> 01:20:50,599
Speaker 1: Over it.

1559
01:20:50,880 --> 01:20:53,920
Speaker 6: Democrats should be furious with the way leadership has handled

1560
01:20:53,920 --> 01:20:56,479
Speaker 6: the entire Trump era, and I feel like that hasn't

1561
01:20:56,520 --> 01:21:00,320
Speaker 6: broken into the like main discourse. Now.

1562
01:21:00,479 --> 01:21:01,360
Speaker 1: It's pretty bad.

1563
01:21:01,600 --> 01:21:03,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, they have no idea what's coming for them.

1564
01:21:03,400 --> 01:21:05,400
Speaker 1: They lost to this guy so badly.

1565
01:21:06,720 --> 01:21:09,040
Speaker 6: Republicans lost to him badly first, and it was a

1566
01:21:09,160 --> 01:21:12,439
Speaker 6: year's long lesson in what not to do with your

1567
01:21:12,439 --> 01:21:14,960
Speaker 6: party's populists for Democrats, like it was handed to them

1568
01:21:14,960 --> 01:21:17,839
Speaker 6: on a silver platter by the way Republican leadership treated

1569
01:21:18,479 --> 01:21:20,360
Speaker 6: mostly not just Trump, but Trump's voters.

1570
01:21:20,400 --> 01:21:21,559
Speaker 5: Because Trump's voters took.

1571
01:21:21,439 --> 01:21:23,599
Speaker 6: That as a message that they were being rejected. It's

1572
01:21:23,600 --> 01:21:26,040
Speaker 6: the same thing with aost's voters. Now, it's the same

1573
01:21:26,040 --> 01:21:29,720
Speaker 6: thing with the voters of people who were like, you're

1574
01:21:29,760 --> 01:21:34,040
Speaker 6: doing nothing, You're laying down, what are you're doing. They

1575
01:21:34,080 --> 01:21:36,600
Speaker 6: take that as a front to them, and they're not

1576
01:21:36,640 --> 01:21:38,960
Speaker 6: wrong to do it. So good luck with that truck, Schumer.

1577
01:21:39,080 --> 01:21:40,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, right up.

1578
01:21:40,280 --> 01:21:44,519
Speaker 4: Next, Donald Trump fired both Democratic members of the Federal

1579
01:21:44,560 --> 01:21:45,360
Speaker 4: Trade Commission.

1580
01:21:46,000 --> 01:21:49,040
Speaker 1: One of them, Alvar Badoya, joins us. Next. Stick around

1581
01:21:49,040 --> 01:21:53,559
Speaker 1: for that are seemingly out of nowhere.

1582
01:21:53,600 --> 01:21:58,880
Speaker 4: President Donald Trump fired both Democratic commissioners on the FTC,

1583
01:21:59,000 --> 01:22:02,960
Speaker 4: that's the Federal Trade Commission. Lena Khan is no longer there,

1584
01:22:03,280 --> 01:22:05,760
Speaker 4: so that means that it's there are just now two

1585
01:22:05,760 --> 01:22:09,800
Speaker 4: Republicans because the third has yet to be appointed. Among

1586
01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:13,720
Speaker 4: them are Rebecca Slaughter and Alvaro Badoya. You can put

1587
01:22:13,800 --> 01:22:17,240
Speaker 4: up the second element here, former commissioner. I'm just going

1588
01:22:17,320 --> 01:22:20,439
Speaker 4: to call him commissioner because I don't recognize the commissions right,

1589
01:22:20,439 --> 01:22:24,320
Speaker 4: I don't recognize the validity of these firings. His statement

1590
01:22:24,680 --> 01:22:27,840
Speaker 4: that he put out last night. Can move on to

1591
01:22:28,520 --> 01:22:31,880
Speaker 4: E three as well. Lena Kahan standing up for the

1592
01:22:31,920 --> 01:22:34,759
Speaker 4: former Democratic commissioner as well, so that the administrations illegal

1593
01:22:34,760 --> 01:22:37,400
Speaker 4: attempt to fire Commissioners Slaughter and Vadoya is a disturbing

1594
01:22:37,479 --> 01:22:41,360
Speaker 4: sign that this FTC won't enforce the law without fear favor.

1595
01:22:41,479 --> 01:22:45,600
Speaker 4: It's a gift to corporate lawbreakers that squeeze American consumers,

1596
01:22:45,640 --> 01:22:49,439
Speaker 4: workers and honest businesses. Joining us today for his first

1597
01:22:49,479 --> 01:22:54,000
Speaker 4: interview since this illegal firing is Commissioner Badoya.

1598
01:22:54,680 --> 01:22:57,160
Speaker 1: Commissioner, thanks for joining us, Thanks for having me.

1599
01:22:58,040 --> 01:23:05,400
Speaker 4: So this was always considered to be a possibility. But

1600
01:23:05,520 --> 01:23:09,360
Speaker 4: on the other hand, there they could easily have three Republicans.

1601
01:23:09,360 --> 01:23:11,080
Speaker 4: All they have to do is hole to vote. They

1602
01:23:11,080 --> 01:23:15,960
Speaker 4: can get the third one, so then they have three

1603
01:23:16,000 --> 01:23:16,320
Speaker 4: to two.

1604
01:23:16,960 --> 01:23:18,200
Speaker 1: You know, you guys can complain.

1605
01:23:19,120 --> 01:23:22,000
Speaker 4: And also, you know Andrew ferguson the FTC Chow, You

1606
01:23:22,000 --> 01:23:24,240
Speaker 4: guys work with him fairly well, like when he was

1607
01:23:24,840 --> 01:23:29,599
Speaker 4: when he was named the chair over Holyoke and over

1608
01:23:29,680 --> 01:23:33,040
Speaker 4: other possibilities. It was seen in the anti monopoly circles

1609
01:23:33,160 --> 01:23:35,880
Speaker 4: as kind of a win for the Van swing because

1610
01:23:35,920 --> 01:23:40,559
Speaker 4: he's closer to you guys and Lena Khan than anybody else.

1611
01:23:40,560 --> 01:23:44,040
Speaker 4: And oh, this, this bipart is an anti trust thing

1612
01:23:44,920 --> 01:23:47,000
Speaker 4: were we're actually going to go after corporate power. Might

1613
01:23:47,040 --> 01:23:51,200
Speaker 4: actually be gaining some steam here, and they don't need

1614
01:23:51,240 --> 01:23:52,760
Speaker 4: to fire you because, like I said, they can just

1615
01:23:53,000 --> 01:23:54,800
Speaker 4: out vote you every single time if they don't like

1616
01:23:54,840 --> 01:23:57,400
Speaker 4: where you come from. So did you expect that they

1617
01:23:57,439 --> 01:23:59,920
Speaker 4: would do this? And how how did you learn? Did

1618
01:23:59,920 --> 01:24:01,680
Speaker 4: you learn? From Fox News?

1619
01:24:02,040 --> 01:24:02,960
Speaker 10: I thought it might happen.

1620
01:24:03,520 --> 01:24:07,720
Speaker 20: I was surprised at the moment it happened, because well

1621
01:24:07,760 --> 01:24:09,960
Speaker 20: when did I learn? I was I just left work

1622
01:24:10,000 --> 01:24:14,559
Speaker 20: and I was at my daughter's gymnastics practice when Commissioner

1623
01:24:14,600 --> 01:24:16,519
Speaker 20: Slaughter called me and said, have you checked your email?

1624
01:24:16,640 --> 01:24:20,639
Speaker 20: And there was some guy at the White House claiming

1625
01:24:20,840 --> 01:24:25,839
Speaker 20: that the President was firing me. Look, I think timing

1626
01:24:25,920 --> 01:24:29,960
Speaker 20: is important because if this were just a unitary executive thing,

1627
01:24:30,400 --> 01:24:32,280
Speaker 20: we would have been on that checklist week one or

1628
01:24:32,280 --> 01:24:35,760
Speaker 20: week two along with gwyn Willcox at the NLRB. I

1629
01:24:35,760 --> 01:24:38,479
Speaker 20: think instead you got to ask who this is helping

1630
01:24:39,040 --> 01:24:41,559
Speaker 20: and why they did it when they did, because this

1631
01:24:41,640 --> 01:24:44,680
Speaker 20: doesn't help Maga, this helps Musk. I think you got

1632
01:24:44,720 --> 01:24:48,439
Speaker 20: to think about the billionaires over the President's shoulder at

1633
01:24:48,439 --> 01:24:49,160
Speaker 20: the inauguration.

1634
01:24:50,840 --> 01:24:51,600
Speaker 10: Three examples.

1635
01:24:52,360 --> 01:24:57,680
Speaker 20: I am currently suing Amazon and not one, but two lawsuits.

1636
01:24:58,320 --> 01:25:02,120
Speaker 20: I am responsible for enforcing a privacy consent decree against

1637
01:25:02,120 --> 01:25:06,160
Speaker 20: Elon Musk and X, and I am a judge in

1638
01:25:06,200 --> 01:25:08,640
Speaker 20: a matter of FTC staff is trying to ramp up

1639
01:25:08,640 --> 01:25:12,240
Speaker 20: the privacy protections that apply to its users. Who else

1640
01:25:12,240 --> 01:25:17,599
Speaker 20: have we been investigating pharmacy middlemen who allegedly, you know,

1641
01:25:17,680 --> 01:25:21,479
Speaker 20: send kids with cancer home and say no, no, no,

1642
01:25:21,680 --> 01:25:24,040
Speaker 20: you can't get your cancer medicine at that independent pharmacy.

1643
01:25:24,080 --> 01:25:25,400
Speaker 20: You got to get it in the mail and the

1644
01:25:25,400 --> 01:25:26,639
Speaker 20: pharmacy we own.

1645
01:25:27,000 --> 01:25:29,120
Speaker 1: Can we pause for two seconds on the pharmacy middlemen?

1646
01:25:29,200 --> 01:25:33,640
Speaker 4: Sorry, constantly in the Lame Duck between the election and

1647
01:25:33,680 --> 01:25:37,920
Speaker 4: the inauguration of Donald Trump, there was pharmacy middleman reform

1648
01:25:38,880 --> 01:25:43,120
Speaker 4: included in that legislation that was about to pass when

1649
01:25:43,120 --> 01:25:47,200
Speaker 4: Elon Musk jumped in and stopped it from passing, and

1650
01:25:47,880 --> 01:25:51,240
Speaker 4: a new bill passed. I understand since then something like

1651
01:25:51,600 --> 01:25:56,120
Speaker 4: three hundred plus pharmacy pharmacy closed as a result. Can

1652
01:25:56,160 --> 01:25:59,439
Speaker 4: you tell people, just very briefly, like who are the like?

1653
01:25:59,560 --> 01:25:59,960
Speaker 10: Absolute?

1654
01:26:00,360 --> 01:26:00,920
Speaker 1: What's going on?

1655
01:26:01,000 --> 01:26:01,560
Speaker 10: Absolutely?

1656
01:26:01,600 --> 01:26:01,720
Speaker 6: So.

1657
01:26:02,320 --> 01:26:05,240
Speaker 20: It used to be that there were multiple health insurers

1658
01:26:06,000 --> 01:26:11,280
Speaker 20: and lots of independent pharmacies, and over time there grew

1659
01:26:11,320 --> 01:26:14,360
Speaker 20: to be this middle layer of these entities called PBMs

1660
01:26:14,400 --> 01:26:18,080
Speaker 20: pharmacy benefit managers. And frankly, when they're all independent, it's

1661
01:26:18,080 --> 01:26:21,360
Speaker 20: great because they cut good deals for the insurers from

1662
01:26:21,400 --> 01:26:24,800
Speaker 20: the manufacturers, all right, But what happened It started to

1663
01:26:24,840 --> 01:26:28,479
Speaker 20: be that each of the big three insurers bought or

1664
01:26:28,560 --> 01:26:33,120
Speaker 20: got their own pharmacy middlemen, and then those pharmacy middlemen

1665
01:26:33,280 --> 01:26:37,840
Speaker 20: have their own pharmacies, often mail order, sometimes not. So

1666
01:26:37,920 --> 01:26:42,559
Speaker 20: what happens a lot of those multi billion dollar companies

1667
01:26:42,560 --> 01:26:47,080
Speaker 20: don't consider it profitable to serve rural America, urban America.

1668
01:26:47,080 --> 01:26:49,000
Speaker 10: It's the independence that serve those looks.

1669
01:26:49,080 --> 01:26:51,200
Speaker 20: My first trip as an FTC commissioner was the Charleston,

1670
01:26:51,280 --> 01:26:53,240
Speaker 20: West Virginia meant a strip malle with a bunch of

1671
01:26:53,240 --> 01:26:56,479
Speaker 20: pharmacists who who took care of a lot of folks during.

1672
01:26:56,280 --> 01:26:57,720
Speaker 10: COVID when no one else did.

1673
01:26:58,720 --> 01:27:01,240
Speaker 20: And what those folks say is, yeah, I got people

1674
01:27:01,240 --> 01:27:05,280
Speaker 20: showing up my pharmacy with prescriptions for cancer medicine and

1675
01:27:05,320 --> 01:27:09,280
Speaker 20: they're told go home wait for it because the PBM says,

1676
01:27:09,360 --> 01:27:10,640
Speaker 20: I can't give it to you.

1677
01:27:10,640 --> 01:27:12,080
Speaker 10: You need to get it from their pharmacy.

1678
01:27:12,520 --> 01:27:17,280
Speaker 20: I met with pharmacists in Louisiana who said after IDA

1679
01:27:17,400 --> 01:27:20,760
Speaker 20: came through, there were about twenty four pharmacies served two parishes.

1680
01:27:21,080 --> 01:27:23,800
Speaker 20: People were showing up at the four pharmacies that were open,

1681
01:27:23,920 --> 01:27:26,760
Speaker 20: including like three or four independents, and they got a

1682
01:27:26,800 --> 01:27:29,960
Speaker 20: screen that said, you cannot give this a person their

1683
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:33,000
Speaker 20: insolent prescription. They need to go to the pharmacy we

1684
01:27:33,040 --> 01:27:34,960
Speaker 20: own down the street, which is under three feet of water.

1685
01:27:35,080 --> 01:27:37,360
Speaker 10: That is who we're.

1686
01:27:37,240 --> 01:27:39,599
Speaker 1: Talking about here, and you guys are coming, We're coming

1687
01:27:39,600 --> 01:27:39,960
Speaker 1: after that.

1688
01:27:40,840 --> 01:27:43,760
Speaker 20: We have been in the middle of a I think

1689
01:27:43,800 --> 01:27:46,040
Speaker 20: more than a year long market study into the pharmacy

1690
01:27:46,040 --> 01:27:51,320
Speaker 20: benefit managers. What's more, me and Commissioner Slaughter are sitting

1691
01:27:51,439 --> 01:27:56,679
Speaker 20: as judges in a case in which FTC staff alleges

1692
01:27:56,760 --> 01:27:59,960
Speaker 20: that these mintlemen are competing not to lower the price

1693
01:28:00,040 --> 01:28:03,959
Speaker 20: of insulin, but to raise it. And if our lawsuit

1694
01:28:04,040 --> 01:28:06,080
Speaker 20: to be clear that we are still Commissioner's fails, I

1695
01:28:06,120 --> 01:28:07,479
Speaker 20: don't know what happens that lawsuit.

1696
01:28:08,840 --> 01:28:10,760
Speaker 5: So I'm curious about this timing question as well. That

1697
01:28:10,960 --> 01:28:11,760
Speaker 5: is very interesting.

1698
01:28:12,160 --> 01:28:14,880
Speaker 6: And you know, Ryan mentioned some of the common ground

1699
01:28:15,000 --> 01:28:18,760
Speaker 6: between you and Andrew Ferguson and common ground that Andrew

1700
01:28:18,760 --> 01:28:22,559
Speaker 6: Ferguson had found with Lena Kahan, But you guys had

1701
01:28:22,560 --> 01:28:24,880
Speaker 6: a dust up recently over I think it was diversy

1702
01:28:24,920 --> 01:28:28,679
Speaker 6: equity inclusion stuff at the FTC, which Andrew Ferguson said

1703
01:28:28,680 --> 01:28:32,639
Speaker 6: he would strip out. And I'm curious also if maybe

1704
01:28:32,800 --> 01:28:35,760
Speaker 6: because it tracks me as you know, Sinder Pitchai had

1705
01:28:36,120 --> 01:28:38,040
Speaker 6: is trying to have a great relationship with Trump despite

1706
01:28:38,080 --> 01:28:41,000
Speaker 6: the Trump DOJ originally filing the Google anti trust suit

1707
01:28:41,000 --> 01:28:42,920
Speaker 6: and all of that, So they had to have known.

1708
01:28:43,000 --> 01:28:45,960
Speaker 6: I mean, Ferguson has been no friend of Amazon and

1709
01:28:46,000 --> 01:28:46,800
Speaker 6: Jeff Bezos.

1710
01:28:46,800 --> 01:28:48,639
Speaker 5: They had to have known some of this was coming.

1711
01:28:49,360 --> 01:28:51,559
Speaker 6: I wonder what you make of the case that maybe

1712
01:28:51,560 --> 01:28:55,000
Speaker 6: they realized you wouldn't be cooperative with them.

1713
01:28:54,880 --> 01:28:56,920
Speaker 5: At all, that there wouldn't be and who is they?

1714
01:28:57,400 --> 01:29:00,560
Speaker 6: Just people like whoever was pushing for you to be

1715
01:29:00,600 --> 01:29:01,519
Speaker 6: quote unquote fired.

1716
01:29:01,760 --> 01:29:05,879
Speaker 5: He said, well he's not getting Yeah.

1717
01:29:06,200 --> 01:29:07,640
Speaker 20: Look, I don't know who the day is, but I

1718
01:29:07,640 --> 01:29:09,280
Speaker 20: can tell you how I spent the last couple of weeks.

1719
01:29:10,360 --> 01:29:11,920
Speaker 20: About a week and a half ago, I called out

1720
01:29:12,040 --> 01:29:15,360
Speaker 20: Jeff Bezos by name for his blithe statement that the

1721
01:29:15,439 --> 01:29:19,200
Speaker 20: Post editorial page wouldn't focus would focus on free markets

1722
01:29:19,200 --> 01:29:21,519
Speaker 20: and personal liberties. And I said, hey, man, when I

1723
01:29:21,520 --> 01:29:23,280
Speaker 20: think about free markets and person liberties, I don't think

1724
01:29:23,280 --> 01:29:25,160
Speaker 20: about the Post editorial page. I think about the vending

1725
01:29:25,200 --> 01:29:28,559
Speaker 20: machines and Amazon warehouses that dull out painkillers and not

1726
01:29:28,680 --> 01:29:32,200
Speaker 20: potato chips. Bernie Sanders put out a report showing that

1727
01:29:32,680 --> 01:29:35,679
Speaker 20: people are literally working so fast, so hard their hands

1728
01:29:35,720 --> 01:29:39,240
Speaker 20: stopped working, their shoulders stop working, the dis and their

1729
01:29:39,240 --> 01:29:41,760
Speaker 20: back bulge and break, and it called him out. I

1730
01:29:41,800 --> 01:29:44,160
Speaker 20: got twent five million views on it. That was the

1731
01:29:44,240 --> 01:29:47,559
Speaker 20: last thing I did a little before that, I pressed

1732
01:29:47,600 --> 01:29:51,120
Speaker 20: Chairman ferguson who you're right was did a great thing

1733
01:29:51,160 --> 01:29:54,320
Speaker 20: in ratifying the merger guidelines, which had special protections for

1734
01:29:54,400 --> 01:29:56,840
Speaker 20: labor in them. That was a good move, and I

1735
01:29:56,880 --> 01:30:00,800
Speaker 20: respect them for it, But my beef with him, as

1736
01:30:00,800 --> 01:30:03,400
Speaker 20: it were, has been that he is in a position

1737
01:30:04,120 --> 01:30:09,439
Speaker 20: to do extraordinary things for affordability in this country, and

1738
01:30:09,640 --> 01:30:11,800
Speaker 20: I was disappointed he spent the first four weeks not

1739
01:30:11,840 --> 01:30:14,400
Speaker 20: saying anything about the price of eggs, about the price

1740
01:30:14,439 --> 01:30:18,200
Speaker 20: of milk, about grocery prices, and I was pressing him

1741
01:30:18,200 --> 01:30:19,920
Speaker 20: to investigate the price of eggs and calling out the

1742
01:30:19,960 --> 01:30:23,000
Speaker 20: fact that eggs in this country, our ability to get

1743
01:30:23,040 --> 01:30:25,360
Speaker 20: them is controlled in part by what appears to be

1744
01:30:25,360 --> 01:30:28,240
Speaker 20: a duopoly in Europe that controls the supply of layer

1745
01:30:28,280 --> 01:30:28,840
Speaker 20: breeder hends.

1746
01:30:29,200 --> 01:30:30,920
Speaker 10: Since then, DJ said they're investiating.

1747
01:30:30,960 --> 01:30:33,519
Speaker 20: I think it's a great move, but I think it's

1748
01:30:33,720 --> 01:30:36,519
Speaker 20: pretty notable that the firing comes now after I've been

1749
01:30:36,560 --> 01:30:41,000
Speaker 20: calling out duopolies and agriculture and the way mister Bezos

1750
01:30:41,040 --> 01:30:43,479
Speaker 20: treats his employees on the warehouse floor, and not in

1751
01:30:43,520 --> 01:30:44,160
Speaker 20: week one or two.

1752
01:30:44,280 --> 01:30:45,559
Speaker 10: Along with Gwyn Wilcox at n.

1753
01:30:45,600 --> 01:30:48,479
Speaker 4: RB, I think your point about the timing, which and

1754
01:30:48,600 --> 01:30:51,840
Speaker 4: we picked up on, is really important because I can

1755
01:30:51,880 --> 01:30:56,760
Speaker 4: easily be persuaded that a president should actually be able

1756
01:30:56,760 --> 01:31:01,320
Speaker 4: to control like the various agencies, then the executive like

1757
01:31:01,320 --> 01:31:06,360
Speaker 4: if Bernie Sanders had magically won the White House, I

1758
01:31:06,400 --> 01:31:10,880
Speaker 4: wouldn't want, you know, some like retrograde commissioners on the

1759
01:31:10,960 --> 01:31:14,920
Speaker 4: NLRB and FTC thwarting the Bernie Sanders' agenda that the

1760
01:31:14,960 --> 01:31:19,080
Speaker 4: people had elected. So on a level of Princeville I've

1761
01:31:19,080 --> 01:31:21,120
Speaker 4: met up, most of our viewers would probably can agree

1762
01:31:21,120 --> 01:31:23,519
Speaker 4: on a level of principle. Fine, but so your point

1763
01:31:23,520 --> 01:31:25,960
Speaker 4: about the timing is right, because if that's the principle,

1764
01:31:26,600 --> 01:31:29,040
Speaker 4: then he just like day one, he gets what he

1765
01:31:29,080 --> 01:31:30,400
Speaker 4: would fire you on day one.

1766
01:31:31,200 --> 01:31:35,320
Speaker 1: But the maga world, that of which.

1767
01:31:35,200 --> 01:31:39,000
Speaker 4: You know jd Vance is a strong element, has liked

1768
01:31:39,000 --> 01:31:41,439
Speaker 4: your work, has liked Lena Khan worked, has liked Jonathan

1769
01:31:41,479 --> 01:31:44,720
Speaker 4: Cantor's work over at DJ Doha, Mecki's work. And so

1770
01:31:45,520 --> 01:31:48,720
Speaker 4: therefore you stuck around for a while. The fact that

1771
01:31:48,760 --> 01:31:51,920
Speaker 4: you're now getting booted, I think has some political implications

1772
01:31:53,960 --> 01:31:56,880
Speaker 4: raises the question that Emily was asking, like, well, where

1773
01:31:56,920 --> 01:32:00,040
Speaker 4: did this come from? Because let's say, what is it

1774
01:32:00,080 --> 01:32:02,360
Speaker 4: goes back to my original question, what is getting rid

1775
01:32:02,360 --> 01:32:07,320
Speaker 4: of you accomplish? And I'm curious, like, so on the commission,

1776
01:32:07,400 --> 01:32:09,360
Speaker 4: let's say you're reappointed.

1777
01:32:09,439 --> 01:32:10,280
Speaker 1: Right, you're back there.

1778
01:32:10,920 --> 01:32:15,280
Speaker 4: I would imagine that you would you know, you might

1779
01:32:15,320 --> 01:32:18,360
Speaker 4: disagree and might agree with Ferguson and some of the others.

1780
01:32:20,000 --> 01:32:22,400
Speaker 4: They can then move to vote three to two and

1781
01:32:22,439 --> 01:32:26,160
Speaker 4: move something forward. But you would be party two deliberations.

1782
01:32:26,439 --> 01:32:28,360
Speaker 4: You'd be able to come on this program and talk

1783
01:32:28,360 --> 01:32:32,519
Speaker 4: about what's going on, and you might also hear, oh, hey,

1784
01:32:32,560 --> 01:32:35,320
Speaker 4: by the way, we got a call from the White

1785
01:32:35,360 --> 01:32:39,960
Speaker 4: House that said that these deliberations are out the window.

1786
01:32:40,040 --> 01:32:41,559
Speaker 1: We actually want you to drop this case.

1787
01:32:42,240 --> 01:32:47,519
Speaker 4: So having you there is kind of an intel for

1788
01:32:47,560 --> 01:32:50,679
Speaker 4: the public because you'd be able to say, actually, Ferguson

1789
01:32:50,760 --> 01:32:55,839
Speaker 4: is Ferguson is for this enforcement action against Amazon or whatever,

1790
01:32:56,120 --> 01:32:57,679
Speaker 4: or Facebook or Elon Rusk.

1791
01:32:57,960 --> 01:33:01,599
Speaker 1: But Elon Musk called precisely, so is it so? What? What?

1792
01:33:01,600 --> 01:33:04,320
Speaker 1: What would be the role of a minority commissioner?

1793
01:33:04,479 --> 01:33:04,719
Speaker 10: Yeah?

1794
01:33:04,800 --> 01:33:07,599
Speaker 4: Are you a potted plant? Or is there some reason

1795
01:33:07,640 --> 01:33:08,280
Speaker 4: for you to be there?

1796
01:33:08,400 --> 01:33:08,599
Speaker 10: No?

1797
01:33:08,800 --> 01:33:10,760
Speaker 20: I think I think there's two elements that need to

1798
01:33:10,800 --> 01:33:14,280
Speaker 20: be uh looked at here. The first is our ability

1799
01:33:14,320 --> 01:33:16,679
Speaker 20: to keep suing. The folks were suing in the face

1800
01:33:16,680 --> 01:33:18,880
Speaker 20: of this claim by the President that he can give

1801
01:33:18,920 --> 01:33:21,320
Speaker 20: us the boot any time for any reason. Right, Because,

1802
01:33:21,360 --> 01:33:23,400
Speaker 20: like you said, Chairman Ferguson has said, I'm going to

1803
01:33:23,479 --> 01:33:25,679
Speaker 20: keep on suing Amazon. I'm going to keep on suing

1804
01:33:26,080 --> 01:33:29,519
Speaker 20: Meta Excellent. What happens if he gets the phone call

1805
01:33:30,200 --> 01:33:34,559
Speaker 20: that says, well, actually, you know, we just nominated Jeff's

1806
01:33:34,600 --> 01:33:35,479
Speaker 20: guy for OSHA.

1807
01:33:35,880 --> 01:33:37,240
Speaker 10: And the other thing he said is you got a

1808
01:33:37,240 --> 01:33:38,400
Speaker 10: pesky lawsuit.

1809
01:33:38,000 --> 01:33:40,240
Speaker 1: Because literally they just literally.

1810
01:33:39,880 --> 01:33:42,479
Speaker 20: They nominated the guy to run OSHA, the one agency

1811
01:33:42,520 --> 01:33:46,080
Speaker 20: that's consistently called out the horrors on Amazon warehouse floors.

1812
01:33:47,200 --> 01:33:51,000
Speaker 20: The guy is a former Amazon executive, that's right. And

1813
01:33:51,080 --> 01:33:53,040
Speaker 20: so hey, you know, Jeff is also saying he wants

1814
01:33:53,040 --> 01:33:57,360
Speaker 20: this lawsuit to go away. And by the way, what's

1815
01:33:57,360 --> 01:34:00,559
Speaker 20: that lawsuit about. That's about small business sellers. If you're

1816
01:34:00,560 --> 01:34:01,640
Speaker 20: a small business owller, you have to.

1817
01:34:01,640 --> 01:34:03,080
Speaker 10: Be on Amazon. It's a monopolist.

1818
01:34:03,600 --> 01:34:05,920
Speaker 20: It is forcing them to pay up the fifty cents

1819
01:34:05,920 --> 01:34:08,040
Speaker 20: on every dollar they sell on the site and making

1820
01:34:08,080 --> 01:34:10,599
Speaker 20: it impossible to offer lower prices.

1821
01:34:10,920 --> 01:34:11,080
Speaker 1: Right.

1822
01:34:11,439 --> 01:34:13,360
Speaker 20: And so whether or not Chairman Ferguson wants to bring

1823
01:34:13,400 --> 01:34:15,880
Speaker 20: the lawsuit if you get fired for just saying no,

1824
01:34:16,439 --> 01:34:17,360
Speaker 20: what's the point?

1825
01:34:17,600 --> 01:34:17,840
Speaker 10: Right?

1826
01:34:18,080 --> 01:34:23,000
Speaker 20: And so it's more it is both calling out misconduct,

1827
01:34:23,880 --> 01:34:27,640
Speaker 20: but it is also about about laying the groundwork for

1828
01:34:27,680 --> 01:34:30,200
Speaker 20: overt corporate pardons and corruption. You know, I saw Roli

1829
01:34:30,240 --> 01:34:31,960
Speaker 20: Chopray talked about this when he was on earlier.

1830
01:34:32,160 --> 01:34:35,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, And I'm actually surprised Ryan you mentioned you could

1831
01:34:35,200 --> 01:34:38,880
Speaker 6: see the sort of unitary executive theory about control over

1832
01:34:38,920 --> 01:34:41,960
Speaker 6: some of these independent agencies from the president. I'm surprised

1833
01:34:41,960 --> 01:34:44,439
Speaker 6: that you say that. I'm really curious what you make

1834
01:34:44,479 --> 01:34:46,840
Speaker 6: of that, because that, to me seems like maybe the

1835
01:34:46,840 --> 01:34:50,320
Speaker 6: biggest ideological difference between me and you guys is that,

1836
01:34:50,400 --> 01:34:53,160
Speaker 6: you know, Eric Schmidt, who's been very good on anti

1837
01:34:53,160 --> 01:34:55,599
Speaker 6: trust from a kind of populist perspective, did a thread

1838
01:34:55,960 --> 01:34:58,720
Speaker 6: agreeing with Andrew Ferguson yesterday where he goes back to

1839
01:34:58,800 --> 01:35:02,200
Speaker 6: Humpty Humphrey's exactcutor says it's bad law undermines the president's

1840
01:35:02,200 --> 01:35:05,400
Speaker 6: centralized authority is granted under Article two and creates very

1841
01:35:05,439 --> 01:35:08,040
Speaker 6: power on accountable federal agencies. That is the key to

1842
01:35:08,080 --> 01:35:10,599
Speaker 6: the entire fight against the administrative state, et cetera, et cetera,

1843
01:35:10,640 --> 01:35:12,840
Speaker 6: et cetera. But that is the project of the conservative

1844
01:35:12,880 --> 01:35:15,320
Speaker 6: movement is saying this is the growth under Woodrow, Wilson

1845
01:35:15,400 --> 01:35:19,960
Speaker 6: and Franklin Dola Roosevelt that has created, as they we say,

1846
01:35:20,000 --> 01:35:26,479
Speaker 6: on unaccountable bureaucrats whatever, and so by firing you, for example,

1847
01:35:26,520 --> 01:35:29,880
Speaker 6: the president is reasserting whether or not he had any

1848
01:35:30,160 --> 01:35:30,880
Speaker 6: quibbles with you.

1849
01:35:31,040 --> 01:35:33,680
Speaker 5: He's this is a matter of taking Humphrey's.

1850
01:35:33,320 --> 01:35:36,920
Speaker 6: Executor to the Supreme Court. I'm curious what your defense

1851
01:35:37,000 --> 01:35:39,920
Speaker 6: of these independent agencies is. I think it's a good one.

1852
01:35:39,920 --> 01:35:41,559
Speaker 6: I disagree with it. I think it's a reasonable one.

1853
01:35:41,600 --> 01:35:46,519
Speaker 6: But these these agencies existing as independent from presidential.

1854
01:35:45,960 --> 01:35:49,719
Speaker 20: Power, who is Eric Adams? Pardon me, who is Eric Schmidt?

1855
01:35:51,240 --> 01:35:52,040
Speaker 20: What does he care about?

1856
01:35:52,120 --> 01:35:52,280
Speaker 1: Right?

1857
01:35:52,520 --> 01:35:54,479
Speaker 20: I'm pretty sure he doesn't care about the small businesses

1858
01:35:54,520 --> 01:35:58,599
Speaker 20: we're trying to defend in the Amazon case. I'm pretty

1859
01:35:58,600 --> 01:36:02,439
Speaker 20: sure you know, a world a merger goes through if

1860
01:36:02,479 --> 01:36:05,559
Speaker 20: a billionaire donor has the president's ear is a great

1861
01:36:05,920 --> 01:36:08,960
Speaker 20: world for the Magnificent seven. It's a shitty world for

1862
01:36:09,240 --> 01:36:12,439
Speaker 20: startups and small businesses. But I have some news for

1863
01:36:12,800 --> 01:36:16,040
Speaker 20: mister Schmidt, which is, if the president can fire me

1864
01:36:16,280 --> 01:36:19,439
Speaker 20: for any reason at any time, he can also fire

1865
01:36:19,560 --> 01:36:23,320
Speaker 20: Jerome Powell for any reason at any time. And so I,

1866
01:36:23,360 --> 01:36:25,600
Speaker 20: frankly don't care about mister Schmidt, not one bit. I

1867
01:36:25,640 --> 01:36:27,720
Speaker 20: do care about a bunch of retirees who have their

1868
01:36:27,720 --> 01:36:30,240
Speaker 20: four oh one k's loaded up with a bunch of

1869
01:36:30,280 --> 01:36:33,080
Speaker 20: stocks in the stock market, and I am deeply sympathetic

1870
01:36:33,120 --> 01:36:36,280
Speaker 20: to the chaos they're experiencing right now, and so I

1871
01:36:36,320 --> 01:36:39,880
Speaker 20: agree with you. Look, I understand folks who want the

1872
01:36:39,920 --> 01:36:43,680
Speaker 20: president to be empowered to have their agenda be made law. Understood,

1873
01:36:44,160 --> 01:36:48,920
Speaker 20: But this is about corruption, it's about chaos, and it

1874
01:36:49,800 --> 01:36:52,960
Speaker 20: is about having happened. My worry is that what happened

1875
01:36:53,000 --> 01:36:56,280
Speaker 20: with Eric Adams at DOJ happens at FTC. Let me

1876
01:36:56,320 --> 01:36:58,759
Speaker 20: make one concrete example. So you guys know about Kroger

1877
01:36:58,760 --> 01:37:02,320
Speaker 20: Albertson's merger. So we had one of the largest grocery

1878
01:37:02,360 --> 01:37:04,720
Speaker 20: chains in the country try to merge.

1879
01:37:04,680 --> 01:37:06,400
Speaker 1: With so Wisconsin native here.

1880
01:37:06,720 --> 01:37:09,960
Speaker 20: Oh yeah, one of the third or fourth largest grocery

1881
01:37:10,000 --> 01:37:12,040
Speaker 20: market chains. And most thousands of small towns that had

1882
01:37:12,080 --> 01:37:15,160
Speaker 20: taken the biggest chain merge it with the next biggest chain.

1883
01:37:16,439 --> 01:37:19,720
Speaker 20: We had an executive under oath say they're jacking up

1884
01:37:19,720 --> 01:37:21,439
Speaker 20: the price of milk and eggs above inflation. We had

1885
01:37:21,520 --> 01:37:24,559
Speaker 20: union leader saying, I can't negotiate higher wages if I

1886
01:37:24,560 --> 01:37:26,679
Speaker 20: can't point to the guy down the street paying higher wages.

1887
01:37:27,400 --> 01:37:30,840
Speaker 20: You would not believe the amount of political pressure that

1888
01:37:31,000 --> 01:37:33,040
Speaker 20: was sent to us in the form of letters, some

1889
01:37:33,080 --> 01:37:35,960
Speaker 20: folks saying, yeah, block at other folks saying, including prominent Democrats,

1890
01:37:36,320 --> 01:37:39,120
Speaker 20: let this thing go right ahead, right But we still

1891
01:37:39,120 --> 01:37:42,840
Speaker 20: blocked it because we can call balls and strikes without

1892
01:37:42,880 --> 01:37:44,880
Speaker 20: fear that some mega donor is.

1893
01:37:44,880 --> 01:37:47,519
Speaker 10: Going to give us the boot via the White House.

1894
01:37:47,560 --> 01:37:49,200
Speaker 10: And this was under Biden, it's under Biden.

1895
01:37:50,360 --> 01:37:53,000
Speaker 20: And what happens with the next mega grocery store mercher,

1896
01:37:53,200 --> 01:37:54,600
Speaker 20: I'm worried that it's not going to matter if it

1897
01:37:54,680 --> 01:37:56,600
Speaker 20: jacks up prices, It's not going to matter if it

1898
01:37:56,760 --> 01:37:58,919
Speaker 20: pulls down wages. What's going to matter is what billionaire

1899
01:37:58,920 --> 01:38:01,040
Speaker 20: donor has The press Sident's here and I'm glad you

1900
01:38:01,120 --> 01:38:04,840
Speaker 20: raised Joe Biden because I think this problem of money

1901
01:38:04,880 --> 01:38:08,639
Speaker 20: in politics is not limited to the Republicans. I think

1902
01:38:08,680 --> 01:38:11,360
Speaker 20: a lot about what happened during Vice President Harris's campaign

1903
01:38:11,400 --> 01:38:14,080
Speaker 20: when what Chircon did for the American.

1904
01:38:13,680 --> 01:38:15,200
Speaker 10: People was wildly popular.

1905
01:38:15,760 --> 01:38:19,439
Speaker 20: Who likes not being able to cancel a subscription unless

1906
01:38:19,439 --> 01:38:23,599
Speaker 20: they call on Tuesday mornings, you know, between ten am

1907
01:38:23,760 --> 01:38:24,519
Speaker 20: and noon.

1908
01:38:24,640 --> 01:38:30,040
Speaker 4: Right that's the breaking points. Premium policy that you have

1909
01:38:30,080 --> 01:38:31,360
Speaker 4: to get Saga on the phone.

1910
01:38:32,120 --> 01:38:33,800
Speaker 10: That's right, you have to tweet it him and you

1911
01:38:33,800 --> 01:38:34,639
Speaker 10: have to follow you back.

1912
01:38:35,280 --> 01:38:37,960
Speaker 20: Who likes non competes, Who likes cancer companies trying to

1913
01:38:37,960 --> 01:38:39,960
Speaker 20: cancer a corner of the market on cancer tests or

1914
01:38:40,240 --> 01:38:44,040
Speaker 20: companies trying to monopolize treatments for pompies these nobody? And

1915
01:38:44,080 --> 01:38:47,160
Speaker 20: yet Vice President Kamala Harris would not say I will

1916
01:38:47,240 --> 01:38:49,639
Speaker 20: keep Lena khan on as the chair of my FTC.

1917
01:38:50,200 --> 01:38:53,719
Speaker 10: What's that about? It's about money? Yeah, ahead and read Hoffman,

1918
01:38:54,560 --> 01:38:55,720
Speaker 10: Yeah she did, indeed.

1919
01:38:55,479 --> 01:38:58,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, read Hoffin out there saying so where does

1920
01:38:58,400 --> 01:39:01,160
Speaker 1: this go? Now? Are you what you do? Filed suit?

1921
01:39:01,720 --> 01:39:02,759
Speaker 5: And what are you doing today?

1922
01:39:02,920 --> 01:39:04,840
Speaker 6: Like what are you going to try to go back in?

1923
01:39:04,960 --> 01:39:06,479
Speaker 6: Is it like an USA A D situation?

1924
01:39:06,560 --> 01:39:07,040
Speaker 10: Good question.

1925
01:39:07,200 --> 01:39:09,280
Speaker 20: So I'm not going to put the security guard at

1926
01:39:09,280 --> 01:39:11,280
Speaker 20: the front desk in the position of having to listen

1927
01:39:11,280 --> 01:39:13,320
Speaker 20: to me or listen to the White House, Right, I'm

1928
01:39:13,320 --> 01:39:15,880
Speaker 20: not going to do it to that guy. And so

1929
01:39:16,160 --> 01:39:17,960
Speaker 20: what I'm doing is calling out the fact this opens

1930
01:39:18,000 --> 01:39:20,400
Speaker 20: the door to corporate pardons, that this was not an

1931
01:39:20,439 --> 01:39:24,280
Speaker 20: effective legal firing, that I remain an FTC commissioner and

1932
01:39:24,360 --> 01:39:26,800
Speaker 20: will soon be following filing suit to make that clear

1933
01:39:26,840 --> 01:39:29,320
Speaker 20: for everyone involved.

1934
01:39:28,880 --> 01:39:30,639
Speaker 1: And what's the legal argument?

1935
01:39:31,760 --> 01:39:35,000
Speaker 20: So much as people are trying to overrule Humphrey's executor,

1936
01:39:35,200 --> 01:39:38,639
Speaker 20: you know, in their heads, Humphrey's executor is still good law.

1937
01:39:39,160 --> 01:39:42,000
Speaker 20: And the day the Supreme Court says it's not and

1938
01:39:42,040 --> 01:39:45,320
Speaker 20: the President says, you're gone, I'm gone, no problem, right,

1939
01:39:45,800 --> 01:39:49,160
Speaker 20: But until that day, I am still there. I will

1940
01:39:49,200 --> 01:39:51,320
Speaker 20: say something about Chairman Ferguson, who I do agree on

1941
01:39:51,560 --> 01:39:55,320
Speaker 20: and I think genuinely cares about working people. When he

1942
01:39:55,400 --> 01:39:57,920
Speaker 20: was nominated to the Senate, he was asked, do you

1943
01:39:57,960 --> 01:40:00,000
Speaker 20: think Humphrey's executor is good law? He said it is,

1944
01:40:00,439 --> 01:40:02,559
Speaker 20: and he also said the only people who can change

1945
01:40:02,880 --> 01:40:05,240
Speaker 20: Supreme Court law is a Supreme Court. Right, So I

1946
01:40:05,280 --> 01:40:08,320
Speaker 20: believe in that. Uh uh, And that's what I'm gonna

1947
01:40:08,320 --> 01:40:10,320
Speaker 20: go to court to try to reinforce.

1948
01:40:10,720 --> 01:40:13,679
Speaker 4: You think this was a Trump kind of pushing back

1949
01:40:13,920 --> 01:40:17,560
Speaker 4: on Robert's statements, Like Robert Roberts came out with a

1950
01:40:17,600 --> 01:40:21,320
Speaker 4: statement saying, you can't, you know, stop all this tweeting

1951
01:40:21,360 --> 01:40:24,880
Speaker 4: about impeaching judges, and then Trump kind of ramps it up.

1952
01:40:25,880 --> 01:40:27,960
Speaker 4: I mean, who knows, because you know, Trumpe's whoever he

1953
01:40:28,000 --> 01:40:29,160
Speaker 4: talks to last.

1954
01:40:29,400 --> 01:40:32,559
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, Harry's executive is such a it is

1955
01:40:32,760 --> 01:40:37,639
Speaker 6: seen in the conservative movement as such a foundational ruling

1956
01:40:37,800 --> 01:40:40,479
Speaker 6: for the creation of everything that Elon Musk right now

1957
01:40:40,520 --> 01:40:43,120
Speaker 6: says he opposes and he's a crony capitalist.

1958
01:40:43,160 --> 01:40:44,519
Speaker 5: He's not. Yeah, we don't even.

1959
01:40:44,360 --> 01:40:44,920
Speaker 1: Get any of that.

1960
01:40:45,000 --> 01:40:50,479
Speaker 6: But you know, it's just to me. I imagine they always,

1961
01:40:50,720 --> 01:40:55,000
Speaker 6: you know, Russ Vote and Stephen Miller always envisioned somehow

1962
01:40:55,000 --> 01:40:57,080
Speaker 6: finding a way to get Humphrey's executive, which is why

1963
01:40:57,120 --> 01:40:59,760
Speaker 6: Ferguson was asked about it, because it was and this

1964
01:40:59,800 --> 01:41:02,080
Speaker 6: is a target of the conservative legal movement and the

1965
01:41:02,120 --> 01:41:05,000
Speaker 6: conserv the greater conservative movement, and has been for decades.

1966
01:41:05,080 --> 01:41:06,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess, I mean guess the last point. I'm

1967
01:41:06,520 --> 01:41:07,400
Speaker 1: curious for your take on this.

1968
01:41:07,520 --> 01:41:10,720
Speaker 4: My I I like, I agree with the principle that

1969
01:41:10,760 --> 01:41:13,880
Speaker 4: a president should be able to be the president and

1970
01:41:14,400 --> 01:41:19,360
Speaker 4: execute you know, his his vision within the law. My

1971
01:41:19,560 --> 01:41:22,360
Speaker 4: concern from the rights attack on the administrative state is

1972
01:41:22,360 --> 01:41:26,680
Speaker 4: they're they're not worried about more efficiently creating an executive

1973
01:41:26,720 --> 01:41:30,280
Speaker 4: that can enact you know, legislation and the will of

1974
01:41:30,280 --> 01:41:32,960
Speaker 4: the people. They want to destroy the administrative state. They

1975
01:41:32,960 --> 01:41:36,760
Speaker 4: want to end the capacity of the government to be

1976
01:41:36,840 --> 01:41:39,600
Speaker 4: able to govern, so that even if there is a

1977
01:41:39,640 --> 01:41:43,960
Speaker 4: will from the public to go after corporate power, all

1978
01:41:44,000 --> 01:41:46,920
Speaker 4: of a sudden, they don't have the capacity anymore to

1979
01:41:46,960 --> 01:41:50,400
Speaker 4: do that. Right, what from your perspective inside the government,

1980
01:41:50,400 --> 01:41:50,720
Speaker 4: what is it?

1981
01:41:50,840 --> 01:41:51,200
Speaker 10: What will?

1982
01:41:51,280 --> 01:41:55,120
Speaker 4: What would it take to denude the FTC of the

1983
01:41:55,160 --> 01:41:58,679
Speaker 4: capacity to actually take on corporate power even if Ferguson

1984
01:41:58,720 --> 01:41:59,280
Speaker 4: wanted to.

1985
01:42:00,040 --> 01:42:02,280
Speaker 10: Well, look, this is a great first step in that effort.

1986
01:42:03,320 --> 01:42:06,000
Speaker 20: I watched the Republican Party, you know, as closely as

1987
01:42:07,040 --> 01:42:09,080
Speaker 20: maybe not as closely as you do, but but quite closely.

1988
01:42:09,120 --> 01:42:13,560
Speaker 20: And you're right, there is an element of rural pharmacists,

1989
01:42:13,640 --> 01:42:17,800
Speaker 20: rural grossers, working people, people in unions who voted for

1990
01:42:17,840 --> 01:42:20,080
Speaker 20: the president because they wanted to make sure they could

1991
01:42:20,080 --> 01:42:23,680
Speaker 20: pay the rent. Right, That is not the wing that

1992
01:42:23,800 --> 01:42:24,280
Speaker 20: won here.

1993
01:42:24,840 --> 01:42:25,280
Speaker 10: You're right.

1994
01:42:25,360 --> 01:42:26,800
Speaker 20: You know, there's you know, there's folks who want to

1995
01:42:26,800 --> 01:42:29,040
Speaker 20: have a unitary executive, but there's also folks who want

1996
01:42:29,080 --> 01:42:35,040
Speaker 20: to marry that executive with corporate Yes, and just look

1997
01:42:35,040 --> 01:42:37,559
Speaker 20: at the numbers here, they are grotesque. You have Elon

1998
01:42:37,640 --> 01:42:41,400
Speaker 20: must donating two hundred and eighty million dollars to the president. Again,

1999
01:42:41,840 --> 01:42:44,559
Speaker 20: I'm the guy who enforces the privacy rules against Elon Musk.

2000
01:42:44,600 --> 01:42:47,599
Speaker 20: You have Jeff Bezos million bucks of the inauguration, twenty

2001
01:42:47,640 --> 01:42:50,479
Speaker 20: million dollars for the First Lady at least that was

2002
01:42:50,479 --> 01:42:54,920
Speaker 20: the cut, oh the documentary, and just licensed episodes for

2003
01:42:55,000 --> 01:42:56,960
Speaker 20: the Apprentice. You know you think he's not going to

2004
01:42:56,960 --> 01:42:59,160
Speaker 20: place a phone call to the White House saying, look,

2005
01:42:59,200 --> 01:43:02,120
Speaker 20: I got too longlawsuits against me from the EMPTC would

2006
01:43:02,120 --> 01:43:02,960
Speaker 20: be great if that was one.

2007
01:43:03,360 --> 01:43:04,479
Speaker 10: You think it's not going to happen.

2008
01:43:04,840 --> 01:43:06,200
Speaker 20: And if you look at the law, because we've been

2009
01:43:06,200 --> 01:43:09,880
Speaker 20: talking about Supreme Court precedence. Corruption isn't just about the

2010
01:43:09,920 --> 01:43:13,400
Speaker 20: actual act Eric Adams style of quid pro quote. It

2011
01:43:13,439 --> 01:43:16,479
Speaker 20: is also about avoiding the appearance of corruption. And that

2012
01:43:16,600 --> 01:43:19,160
Speaker 20: is what's being defeated today. The ability for us to

2013
01:43:19,160 --> 01:43:24,280
Speaker 20: have the appearance of independence and not be a fair

2014
01:43:24,320 --> 01:43:26,120
Speaker 20: minded people trying to promote a fair market and call

2015
01:43:26,200 --> 01:43:29,719
Speaker 20: balls and strikes. That's what's happening here. And if we lose,

2016
01:43:29,800 --> 01:43:31,439
Speaker 20: but we will contest this and I think we'll win.

2017
01:43:31,720 --> 01:43:34,920
Speaker 5: Super super interesting. Thank you for giving us your first interview.

2018
01:43:35,120 --> 01:43:37,920
Speaker 5: Thank you. Eager to see where this goes.

2019
01:43:39,120 --> 01:43:43,160
Speaker 1: Catch them tonight on Aaron Burnette and later Chris Hayes tonight.

2020
01:43:43,439 --> 01:43:47,080
Speaker 10: I'll be on for with Chris h Okay looking forward

2021
01:43:47,160 --> 01:43:47,360
Speaker 10: to that.

2022
01:43:50,160 --> 01:43:54,040
Speaker 1: All right, that was alvar Obadoya. That's it for us.

2023
01:43:54,560 --> 01:43:56,120
Speaker 5: Still going through those JFK files.

2024
01:43:56,760 --> 01:43:58,799
Speaker 1: You know, it's right we forgot to cover that. Well,

2025
01:43:58,880 --> 01:44:00,519
Speaker 1: it's not we were We didn't forget.

2026
01:44:00,600 --> 01:44:03,080
Speaker 6: We didn't forget, right, but we'd plan to cover it.

2027
01:44:03,120 --> 01:44:06,840
Speaker 6: But the volume of documents and the ostensible lack of

2028
01:44:06,880 --> 01:44:10,360
Speaker 6: redactions is fairly impressive. It doesn't mean we're going to get,

2029
01:44:10,400 --> 01:44:12,400
Speaker 6: you know, significant new information out of it, but we

2030
01:44:12,439 --> 01:44:15,200
Speaker 6: did want to read the Jefferson Morley statement ring you

2031
01:44:15,240 --> 01:44:16,960
Speaker 6: sent this morning, and I think it's helpful.

2032
01:44:17,000 --> 01:44:17,960
Speaker 5: Jefferson Morley is.

2033
01:44:18,360 --> 01:44:20,439
Speaker 6: Probably just say it's fair to describe him as the

2034
01:44:20,439 --> 01:44:24,720
Speaker 6: pre eminent living Kennedy assassination researcher. He wrote, quote the

2035
01:44:24,720 --> 01:44:27,320
Speaker 6: first JFK files release of twenty twenty five is an

2036
01:44:27,400 --> 01:44:30,240
Speaker 6: encouraging start. We now have complete versions of approximately a

2037
01:44:30,280 --> 01:44:33,360
Speaker 6: third of the redacted JFK documents held by the National Archives.

2038
01:44:33,680 --> 01:44:37,200
Speaker 6: Rampant overclassification of trivial information has been eliminated, and there

2039
01:44:37,240 --> 01:44:39,559
Speaker 6: appear to be no redactions, though we have not viewed

2040
01:44:39,600 --> 01:44:42,920
Speaker 6: every document. Seven to ten JFK files held by the

2041
01:44:43,000 --> 01:44:45,519
Speaker 6: Archives and sought by JFK researchers are now in the

2042
01:44:45,520 --> 01:44:47,800
Speaker 6: public record. These long secret records shed new light on

2043
01:44:47,880 --> 01:44:51,040
Speaker 6: JFK's mistrust of the CIA, the Castro assassination plots, the

2044
01:44:51,160 --> 01:44:54,479
Speaker 6: surveillance of Oswald in Mexico City, and CIA propaganda operations

2045
01:44:54,479 --> 01:44:57,080
Speaker 6: involving Oswald. The release does not include two thirds of

2046
01:44:57,080 --> 01:44:59,200
Speaker 6: the promised files, nor any of the five hundred plus

2047
01:44:59,240 --> 01:45:02,200
Speaker 6: IRS records, nor any of the twenty four hundred recently

2048
01:45:02,200 --> 01:45:05,240
Speaker 6: discovered FBI files. Nonetheless, this is the most positive news

2049
01:45:05,280 --> 01:45:08,320
Speaker 6: on the declassification of JFK files since the nineteen nineties,

2050
01:45:08,320 --> 01:45:12,000
Speaker 6: and that is a better sort of report from the trenches.

2051
01:45:12,080 --> 01:45:15,160
Speaker 6: I'm sure Jefferson Morley was up all night. This one

2052
01:45:15,280 --> 01:45:17,439
Speaker 6: was last edited at nine forty two pm. Put that

2053
01:45:17,479 --> 01:45:20,240
Speaker 6: statement out on X with the Mary Farrell Foundation.

2054
01:45:20,240 --> 01:45:22,000
Speaker 1: Me CNN finally reached out to him.

2055
01:45:22,040 --> 01:45:26,400
Speaker 6: Fabulous, wow, interesting, but kind of a mix. It sounds

2056
01:45:26,439 --> 01:45:28,680
Speaker 6: like a mixed bag, but one that's mixed enough to

2057
01:45:28,720 --> 01:45:32,519
Speaker 6: be positive. So it's a crazy volume of things to

2058
01:45:32,520 --> 01:45:35,920
Speaker 6: go through. There was all kinds of like armchair quarterbacking

2059
01:45:36,120 --> 01:45:39,120
Speaker 6: happening on X right now. People are the old Ramparts

2060
01:45:39,120 --> 01:45:42,040
Speaker 6: magazine excerpt that people have been circulating thinking that it's

2061
01:45:42,040 --> 01:45:45,600
Speaker 6: some new evidence of CIA connections to I think it

2062
01:45:45,680 --> 01:45:47,640
Speaker 6: Israel in that case. So there's there's a lot of

2063
01:45:47,680 --> 01:45:50,080
Speaker 6: stuff floating around, but I think it's it's valuable to

2064
01:45:51,560 --> 01:45:52,160
Speaker 6: wait out.

2065
01:45:52,280 --> 01:45:54,519
Speaker 1: So much of this was already released.

2066
01:45:54,560 --> 01:45:58,360
Speaker 4: Like you said, though a third of the remaining documents

2067
01:45:58,560 --> 01:46:01,400
Speaker 4: that we know of, there's we can get into what

2068
01:46:01,439 --> 01:46:05,439
Speaker 4: we don't know of, So that's good, and keep it coming.

2069
01:46:07,520 --> 01:46:09,800
Speaker 4: Jeff was telling me after this is over, he wants

2070
01:46:09,840 --> 01:46:15,120
Speaker 4: to get back to kind of broader reporting he was

2071
01:46:15,120 --> 01:46:17,759
Speaker 4: doing in the nineteen eighties before spending forty years dedicated

2072
01:46:17,760 --> 01:46:18,000
Speaker 4: to this.

2073
01:46:18,760 --> 01:46:20,240
Speaker 1: Great to have him back in the game.

2074
01:46:20,800 --> 01:46:23,400
Speaker 6: I mean, and I'm just looking forward to seeing more

2075
01:46:23,439 --> 01:46:25,479
Speaker 6: and more from him on this. The last thing I

2076
01:46:25,479 --> 01:46:28,800
Speaker 6: wanted to recommend was I meant to mention this in

2077
01:46:28,840 --> 01:46:30,519
Speaker 6: the Black when we were talking about the courts, but

2078
01:46:31,200 --> 01:46:34,559
Speaker 6: over at the Volot Conspiracy, Josh Blackman had I thought

2079
01:46:34,560 --> 01:46:38,320
Speaker 6: a very interesting case. He said, the constitutional crisis is

2080
01:46:38,320 --> 01:46:40,799
Speaker 6: a coin with two sides. Trump causes judges to overact,

2081
01:46:40,840 --> 01:46:43,479
Speaker 6: and the judges caused Trump to overreact. Any resolution must

2082
01:46:43,479 --> 01:46:46,519
Speaker 6: be bilateral, not unilateral. Roberts could deescalate the situation by

2083
01:46:46,520 --> 01:46:49,280
Speaker 6: promptly reversing some of these out of control lower court rulings,

2084
01:46:49,320 --> 01:46:51,320
Speaker 6: but instead he would rather sit on his hands and pontificate.

2085
01:46:51,320 --> 01:46:53,000
Speaker 6: I've long said that the Chief Justice is living in

2086
01:46:53,000 --> 01:46:55,240
Speaker 6: a different reality than the rest of us. This episode

2087
01:46:55,360 --> 01:46:57,320
Speaker 6: proves it. There are three co equal branches of government.

2088
01:46:57,320 --> 01:47:00,559
Speaker 6: The judiciary is not is not supreme. And the only

2089
01:47:00,600 --> 01:47:03,160
Speaker 6: reason I wanted to point that out is it's true

2090
01:47:03,360 --> 01:47:07,160
Speaker 6: in conservative circles, especially conservative legal circles, people are increasingly

2091
01:47:07,280 --> 01:47:10,400
Speaker 6: very frustrated with John Roberts and see him as somebody

2092
01:47:10,400 --> 01:47:10,920
Speaker 6: who's like.

2093
01:47:11,360 --> 01:47:13,040
Speaker 5: Would maybe be described as like.

2094
01:47:13,000 --> 01:47:17,439
Speaker 6: A I don't know, a dispatch or Bulwark reader, or

2095
01:47:17,520 --> 01:47:20,880
Speaker 6: somebody who's kind of it doesn't understand what time it

2096
01:47:20,920 --> 01:47:22,880
Speaker 6: is to borrow the phrase from a lot of people

2097
01:47:23,000 --> 01:47:27,160
Speaker 6: on the right, and I don't think Vulock the black

2098
01:47:27,160 --> 01:47:30,479
Speaker 6: men writing in the Bullock Conspiracy's entire is either entirely

2099
01:47:30,479 --> 01:47:33,559
Speaker 6: wrong to or be frustrated by Roberts jumping in here

2100
01:47:33,760 --> 01:47:36,160
Speaker 6: and not jumping in when their efforts to impeach Clarence

2101
01:47:36,160 --> 01:47:40,200
Speaker 6: Thomas or whomever else. If your Republican appointed justice. Seems

2102
01:47:40,240 --> 01:47:43,680
Speaker 6: like those concerns would maybe prompt equal responses.

2103
01:47:43,720 --> 01:47:46,080
Speaker 5: But anyway, this is a huge trend.

2104
01:47:47,120 --> 01:47:51,240
Speaker 4: However, Okay, last however, let's do it. The effort to

2105
01:47:51,320 --> 01:47:57,919
Speaker 4: impeach Clarence Thomas was over corruption. And so from Robert's perspective,

2106
01:47:57,960 --> 01:48:04,200
Speaker 4: where he's saying, there, we do not impeach judges over rulings,

2107
01:48:05,360 --> 01:48:07,400
Speaker 4: that actually stands outside the.

2108
01:48:07,320 --> 01:48:07,800
Speaker 1: Scope of that.

2109
01:48:08,520 --> 01:48:09,960
Speaker 5: Like, oh, I see what you're saying.

2110
01:48:10,520 --> 01:48:12,080
Speaker 1: They were going after Clarence Thomas.

2111
01:48:12,840 --> 01:48:16,760
Speaker 4: And I'm sure Roberts was actually very upset, yes, with

2112
01:48:16,800 --> 01:48:21,160
Speaker 4: Clarence Thomas, for constantly getting caught taking all of these

2113
01:48:21,280 --> 01:48:24,160
Speaker 4: trips with billionaires who had business before the court, and

2114
01:48:24,120 --> 01:48:26,920
Speaker 4: they just had business before the court, Like we're like

2115
01:48:27,479 --> 01:48:32,960
Speaker 4: central to the entire political strategy of revamping the court

2116
01:48:34,600 --> 01:48:39,759
Speaker 4: buying his neighbor's house, and like this is old school corruption.

2117
01:48:40,840 --> 01:48:44,920
Speaker 4: And so it is not out of the norms or

2118
01:48:44,960 --> 01:48:50,839
Speaker 4: the precedents of American jurisprudence to impeach judges over corruptions.

2119
01:48:50,840 --> 01:48:53,759
Speaker 4: So I think that that's why Roberts could be forgiven

2120
01:48:53,800 --> 01:48:57,200
Speaker 4: for not jumping out and saying, hey, we don't impeach

2121
01:48:57,280 --> 01:48:59,160
Speaker 4: judges for corruption because actually we.

2122
01:48:59,120 --> 01:48:59,720
Speaker 5: Do black men.

2123
01:48:59,720 --> 01:49:02,280
Speaker 6: We're not going to black man addresses that and the

2124
01:49:02,280 --> 01:49:06,320
Speaker 6: pieces by saying that the AOC wasn't THEOC one wasn't

2125
01:49:06,479 --> 01:49:07,880
Speaker 6: like good I don't know if you would use this

2126
01:49:07,880 --> 01:49:11,400
Speaker 6: for but good faith because it was just Thomas, and

2127
01:49:11,439 --> 01:49:13,360
Speaker 6: we could have an entire argument about this was just

2128
01:49:13,360 --> 01:49:18,759
Speaker 6: Thomas and Alito and not Sida may Or Ginsburg, Katanji

2129
01:49:18,800 --> 01:49:22,800
Speaker 6: Brown Jackson, who had had similar disclosure lapses that I

2130
01:49:22,800 --> 01:49:24,000
Speaker 6: think they corrected.

2131
01:49:24,200 --> 01:49:26,599
Speaker 7: Yeah, so anyway, right, but there's a disclosions and then

2132
01:49:26,640 --> 01:49:31,200
Speaker 7: there's taking a bunch of gifts from people, like it's

2133
01:49:31,880 --> 01:49:35,479
Speaker 7: there's an effort to like shoehorn it into a paperwork violation,

2134
01:49:35,800 --> 01:49:39,000
Speaker 7: or it's like the problem was robbing the bank, the

2135
01:49:39,040 --> 01:49:42,040
Speaker 7: problem was not filing PaperWorks saying that you rob the bank.

2136
01:49:43,120 --> 01:49:46,240
Speaker 6: Read the face right, right, and I we'll argue about

2137
01:49:46,280 --> 01:49:46,599
Speaker 6: it later.

2138
01:49:47,439 --> 01:49:50,880
Speaker 5: Maybe we're canna argue about that in the future. All right, Well,

2139
01:49:50,880 --> 01:49:52,320
Speaker 5: thank you so much for tuning in. That was a

2140
01:49:52,360 --> 01:49:52,920
Speaker 5: long and duendum.

2141
01:49:52,960 --> 01:49:54,840
Speaker 6: Sorry everyone for taking this down the rabbit hole, but

2142
01:49:55,240 --> 01:49:57,400
Speaker 6: you know, right, sometimes it's fun to tag things on

2143
01:49:57,520 --> 01:49:58,000
Speaker 6: a little bit.

2144
01:49:58,080 --> 01:49:59,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, And we'll see you on Friday.

2145
01:50:00,320 --> 01:50:01,200
Speaker 5: Sounds good,