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Speaker 1: Taking a Walk.

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Speaker 2: Look, Kurt was certainly struggling with drugs at the time.

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Speaker 2: This is widely known, but creatively in my experience was

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Speaker 2: that he always knew exactly what he was doing and

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Speaker 2: he executed one of the greatest you know, arguably the

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Speaker 2: greatest MTV Unplugged ever.

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Speaker 1: The Taking a Walk podcast loves to celebrate great moments

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Speaker 1: in music history. There was an iconic moment that occurred

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Speaker 1: on November eighteenth, nineteen ninety three, in New York City.

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Speaker 1: Nirvana recorded their MTV Unplugged in New York, which stands

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Speaker 1: the test of time as a seminal moment in their

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Speaker 1: career and in music. Join host Buzz Night with special

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Speaker 1: guests that include Danny Goldberg, longtime music executive and at

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Speaker 1: the time he was the manager of Nirvana. Buzz is

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Speaker 1: also joined by former MTV VH one executive Rob Barnett,

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Speaker 1: who shares his recollections from that magic moment in music history.

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Speaker 1: We'll also hear from some fans who were there at

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Speaker 1: the concert sharing their piece of music history. All next

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Speaker 1: on Taking a Walk Danny Goldberg.

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Speaker 3: Danny, can you tell us about the process that led

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Speaker 3: to the performance becoming a reality?

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Speaker 2: Well, there were a couple of different factors.

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Speaker 3: One was.

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Speaker 2: That Kurt had put an enormous amount of energy into

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Speaker 2: the video for Heart Shaped Box. It was the most

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Speaker 2: highest budget video Nirvana had done. There was a change directors,

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Speaker 2: and he didn't really feel he couldn't think of another

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Speaker 2: music video in his mind for a subsequent song that

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Speaker 2: would that would that would live up to the production

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Speaker 2: of Heart Shaped Box, and he just wasn't He didn't

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Speaker 2: have a vision for it prior to you know, all

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Speaker 2: of the Nirvana videos were Kurt's ideas, you know, as

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Speaker 2: well as like King Spirit and in Bloom and so

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Speaker 2: forth and and so Unplugged, but he wanted to do

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Speaker 2: justice to in Utero, which had just come out, you know,

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Speaker 2: only been out a few few months. And he was very,

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Speaker 2: very tuned into the influence and cultural footprint of MTV.

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Speaker 2: He watched MTV a lot, and he knew they were

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Speaker 2: really important to the band's connection with their fans. So

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Speaker 2: so Unplugged was a way of having a significant presence

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Speaker 2: on MTV without making another music video. That was one factor.

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Speaker 2: And another factor is I think MTV wanted the band

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Speaker 2: to do it, and he didn't love saying no to MTV.

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Speaker 2: He would say no to the on occasion because his

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Speaker 2: art and his own personal schedule came first, but they

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Speaker 2: were very important to him. And then at some point

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Speaker 2: he developed the creative vision of what a Nirvana unplugged

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Speaker 2: would be. I don't know when that happened, but by

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Speaker 2: the time they did it, it was completely different from

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Speaker 2: any other unplugged I mean, most are when they did it,

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Speaker 2: unplugged would just do their hits, an acoustic version of them.

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Speaker 2: The Nirvana Unplugged didn't even have some of their biggest

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Speaker 2: songs on it. There was no smells like teen Spirit,

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Speaker 2: for example, and it had several songs that had never

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Speaker 2: been recorded or even performed by Nirvana before those meat

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Speaker 2: puppet songs. And David Bowie managed old the world. I

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Speaker 2: mean maybe he had done it at some point in

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Speaker 2: the past, but I never heard him do it, and

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Speaker 2: he really had this vision of a different kind of

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Speaker 2: instrumentation and just kind of another version of his art.

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Speaker 2: So it started out as a marketing idea and ended

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Speaker 2: up being, you know, a real creative self expression for him.

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Speaker 3: So I know, the rehearsal process in Weehawken was definitely

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Speaker 3: a challenging process. What were you recollect of that rehearsal.

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Speaker 4: Oh, I was.

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Speaker 2: I was on the West coast. My my my wife

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Speaker 2: was about to give birth to our son, Max, and

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Speaker 2: so I wasn't there. I was on the phone a

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Speaker 2: lot with both him and other people around. But look,

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Speaker 2: Kurt was certainly struggling with drugs at the time. This

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Speaker 2: is widely known, but creatively, in my experience was that

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Speaker 2: he always knew exactly what he was doing, and he

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Speaker 2: he executed, you know, one of the greatest, you know,

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Speaker 2: arguably the greatest MTV unplugged ever. So, you know, I

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Speaker 2: don't I don't remember any more drama about the rehearsals

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Speaker 2: that other than the continuing drama of his, you know,

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Speaker 2: personal issues that had been going on, you know, for

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Speaker 2: several months.

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Speaker 3: Did you feel then that he was discovering a new

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Speaker 3: style in terms of the form that that performance ultimately took.

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Speaker 2: Well, he talked about it afterwards. I spoke to him

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Speaker 2: the next day, and he was really excited by it

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Speaker 2: at that time. Janet Billig, who worked for my company then,

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Speaker 2: who was very close to Kurt, told me that in

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Speaker 2: the immediate aftermath of it, he was worried that it

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Speaker 2: sucked and He was very anxiety written about it, but

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Speaker 2: when he got so much good feedback by the next

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Speaker 2: day when I spoke to him, he was really excited

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Speaker 2: and he felt that people would perceive the band in

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Speaker 2: a new way. He was so ambitious that he as

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Speaker 2: successful as Nirvana had been two number one albums redefining

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Speaker 2: what commercial rock and roll was globally, he still felt

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Speaker 2: he had other parts of himself creatively that were meaningful,

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Speaker 2: and he thought he had really he had really demonstrated

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Speaker 2: some of that with the Unplugged. So he was really

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Speaker 2: really excited about it by the next day, and there

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Speaker 2: was no question in my mind that this was again,

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Speaker 2: this was art. To him, this was not.

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Speaker 3: And did you end up feeling differently about the performance

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Speaker 3: as time passed and when it would ultimately run on

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Speaker 3: MTV that December?

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Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know. I fell in love with it

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Speaker 2: right away. I mean, you know, I loved hearing his voice.

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Speaker 2: I thought the performances were incredible. The lead belly song,

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Speaker 2: the Bowie song, the Penny Royalty without any rhythm, just

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Speaker 2: almost a folk version of it, and that was one

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Speaker 2: of my favorite of his lyrics. I knew right away

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Speaker 2: it was spectacular and so I still feel that way

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Speaker 2: to this day. You know, a lot of people the

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Speaker 2: Unplugged is their favorite Nirvana album. It's certainly up there

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Speaker 2: along never Mind in Utero as one of the three

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Speaker 2: albums that really defines the band's legacy.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Danny, that's tremendous. I really appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: Oh my pleasure, Bizz, thanks for including me.

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Speaker 3: We'll be right back with more of the Taken a

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Speaker 3: Walk Podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast.

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Speaker 5: I'm Sarah from Fairfield, Connecticut, and I cannot believe it

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Speaker 5: has been thirty years since I witnessed Nirvana at the

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Speaker 5: MTV Unplugged performance in New York. I knew when I

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Speaker 5: was walking in, like this really was going to be

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Speaker 5: something special, Like there was just such a vibe, like

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Speaker 5: with all the Nirvana fans, like you could just feel

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Speaker 5: the aura in the air.

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Speaker 6: I am James and I'm fifty years old now live

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Speaker 6: in Montclair in New York, and I was there November eighteenth,

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Speaker 6: nineteen ninety three, for what was a magnificent performance at

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Speaker 6: the Nirvana MTV Unplugged. I knew I had witnessed music history.

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Speaker 6: The atmosphere there was so electric from the moment we

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Speaker 6: walked in, the stage was beauty set with candles and

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Speaker 6: flowers and that iconic Nirvana logo backdrop.

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Speaker 4: You could you could.

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Speaker 6: Feel the anticipation in the air, and then Kurt Christ

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Speaker 6: and Dave walked out and the crowd just erupted.

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Speaker 3: Rob Barnett, So, Rob, thanks for being on this moment

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Speaker 3: of taking a walk where we are celebrating the MTV

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Speaker 3: Nirvana unplugged in New York from November of ninety three.

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Speaker 3: Now you had an eleven year run at MTV and

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Speaker 3: VH one. What were you doing in particular at this

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Speaker 3: time at MTV?

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Speaker 7: I was a lucky, lucky boy because years after programming

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Speaker 7: some of America's finest rock radio stations all around the country,

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Speaker 7: I got to MTV in the late eighties, and that

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Speaker 7: was a time when it was still all music and

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Speaker 7: I was one of the heads of programming at MTV.

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Speaker 7: So my job, along with just five other human beings,

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Speaker 7: every single Monday morning, was to sit in a big

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Speaker 7: honkin conference room where they would show us every single

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Speaker 7: music video that was submitted that week, and then, like

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Speaker 7: Christians to the Lions, we'd either do thumbs up or

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Speaker 7: thumbs down. Three of us were the music programmers. We

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Speaker 7: were you know, we had those radio chops, right, and

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Speaker 7: then the other three people in the room were called Taar,

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Speaker 7: Talent and Artist Relations. They were there with equally great

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Speaker 7: you know, music experience and programmer chops, but they were

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Speaker 7: representing what the labels and the artists were interested in.

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Speaker 7: And then the genius of the chairman of then Viacom,

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Speaker 7: Tom Preston, was that the six of us would fight

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Speaker 7: right because there were only a few slots that would

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Speaker 7: be added to that playlist every week.

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Speaker 4: So that was that was the first part of the job.

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Speaker 4: Second part of the job was that I sat in

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Speaker 4: an office that had four people that worked under me,

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Speaker 4: and the twenty four hour pages of a full day

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Speaker 4: programming log would get passed up the line each day

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Speaker 4: from the junior person on the staff up to me

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Speaker 4: and we would we would literally, you know, go over

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Speaker 4: every minute of every hour of everything that was on MTV.

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Speaker 4: We programmed the thing like a radio station with pictures.

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Speaker 3: So do you remember who was really at the core

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Speaker 3: of the person that sort of you know, brought this

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Speaker 3: idea forward about Nirvana doing this performance.

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Speaker 4: Well, it's a great story because you know, success has

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Speaker 4: many mothers and many fathers, But there is absolutely no question.

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Speaker 4: If you're an Nirvana fan, then you need to know

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Speaker 4: if you don't already about who Amy Finnerty is, because

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Speaker 4: back then, you know, remember the old days when we

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Speaker 4: would go to our job and have to show up

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Speaker 4: at nine a m especially on a Monday, Remember those days.

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Speaker 4: Buzz Yeah, even if we had the coolest jobs in

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Speaker 4: the world, you fucking have to go to your job

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Speaker 4: and show up at nine o'clock in the morning. And

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Speaker 4: the funniest thing about MTV back then is some of

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Speaker 4: us even wore suits, which just makes you want to

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Speaker 4: throw up now when you think about it. You know,

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Speaker 4: remember when radio guys like we started to wear like

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Speaker 4: sport jackets and ties and we all look like idiots. Well,

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Speaker 4: it was a little bit like that. And on many

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Speaker 4: many Monday mornings, when four out of the five people

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Speaker 4: that worked for me would show up, the desk down

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Speaker 4: at the end of the line, Amy Finnerty's desk would

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Speaker 4: be empty on many many Monday mornings, and I would

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Speaker 4: look at all my guys and I would say to

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Speaker 4: Kurt Stephik, one of her best buddies, one of the

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Speaker 4: great programmers of MTV where the fuck is Amy? And

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Speaker 4: Kurt would give me some sort of doggate my homework cover, like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 4: she's out of town and she wanted you to know

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Speaker 4: that she missed her flight, and I go, well, great,

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Speaker 4: when is she going to be here? Oh, the the plane.

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Speaker 4: You know, I think this afternoon many many weeks when

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Speaker 4: Amy wasn't where she should have been at Times Square. No,

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Speaker 4: we weren't even in Times Square. We were at Columbus

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Speaker 4: Circle in New York. Back then, Amy was in Seattle,

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Speaker 4: and for MTV's purposes, Amy Finnerty was busy discovering Nirvana.

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Speaker 4: And when she came back on one certain week and

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Speaker 4: started playing that music for the senior leadership team of MTV,

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Speaker 4: the world changed because if you look at the context

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Speaker 4: of what was happening in music, and especially what was

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Speaker 4: happening at MTV. Late eighties, we had a hair band phase.

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Speaker 4: Early nineties, we had a boy band phase.

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Speaker 8: And you know, I was a little sad during the

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Speaker 8: boy band phase because I thought I was working at

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Speaker 8: the pop culture center of the universe, and I of

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Speaker 8: course wanted to be working at the rock and roll

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Speaker 8: center of the universe.

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Speaker 4: But we were a little busy for a few years

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Speaker 4: playing Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch and you know,

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Speaker 4: Backstreet Boys in sync. That's what was happening a few

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Speaker 4: moments before we heard Nirvana, and everyone in the world

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Speaker 4: knows that that not only changed the course of rock forever,

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Speaker 4: we can now say, decades and decades later, that that

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Speaker 4: moment was the last major innovation in the story of rock.

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Speaker 3: And when you listen today to Unplugged in New York

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Speaker 3: with Nirvana, tell me as you reflect on that, how

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Speaker 3: you feel about the performance, how it stands up now.

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Speaker 4: Well, it's great to get the invitation to reconnect with you,

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Speaker 4: especially to talk about this topic and this album, because

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Speaker 4: I spent the last couple of nights listening again to

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Speaker 4: that magic moment on this earth, and you can't listen

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Speaker 4: to it without the agony and the pain of losing Kurt.

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Speaker 4: When that happened, my office was seated next to Kurt Loder.

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Speaker 4: For many years, Kurt and I worked together on dozens

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Speaker 4: of the MTV docs that were called rockumentaries. But when

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Speaker 4: we lost Kurt not long after MTV unplugged, Kurt was

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Speaker 4: our Walter Cronkite, and this was one of the great

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Speaker 4: moments in American history, in world history, to lose one

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Speaker 4: of the true geniuses in the history of music. When

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Speaker 4: you listen to Nirvana unplugged, you're hearing the marriage of pop, rock, punk,

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Speaker 4: and this ineffable section of American music that took something

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Speaker 4: that was in the same breath, raw, melodic and pop

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Speaker 4: that it almost doesn't mathematically add up in your mind

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Speaker 4: except for the fact that its strengthen its power is

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Speaker 4: in its uniqueness and in its ability to just rip

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Speaker 4: right through your soul and demand that you pay attention

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Speaker 4: to something that is completely unlike anything else. I mean,

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Speaker 4: I'm old enough to have spent a lot of years

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Speaker 4: at CBGB's and the punk clubs in the mid and

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Speaker 4: late seventies in New York. This was certainly the child

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Speaker 4: of that, but it took it in a direction that

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Speaker 4: punk could never really get to, or was never designed

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Speaker 4: to get to. Nirvana took it to the top of

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Speaker 4: the mountain.

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Speaker 3: It's brilliant. Thank you, Rob, so great to be with

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Speaker 3: you again.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks man.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a

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Speaker 1: Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends

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Speaker 1: and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking

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Speaker 1: a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: and wherever you get your podcasts.