1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Coming up on you need therapy. We're always going to 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: struggle because we're just going to go with what people 3 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: tell us to do and what we should like. But 4 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: that might not fit with the core of who we are. 5 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: And so there's going to be something in us that's 6 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 1: always longing for something else. So unless I identify my values, 7 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: I am always going to feel lost and I'm always 8 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 1: going to feel like I'm on this path and I 9 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:27,639 Speaker 1: have to get somewhere, versus I'm working towards what I 10 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: want to work towards. I started to realize that not 11 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: being an expert isn't a liability, it's a real gift. 12 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: If we don't know something about ourselves at this point 13 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: in our life, it's probably because it's uncomfortable to know. 14 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,239 Speaker 1: If you can die before you die, then you can 15 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: really live. There's a wisdom at death's door. I thought 16 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: I was insane, Yeah, and I didn't know what to 17 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: do because there was no internet. 18 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 2: I don't know, man, I'm like, I feel like everything 19 00:00:58,400 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 2: is hard. 20 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: Hey, y'all, my name is Kat. I'm a human first 21 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: and a licensed therapist second, and right now I'm inviting 22 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: you into conversations that I hope encourage you to become 23 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 1: more curious and less judgmental about yourself, others, and the 24 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 1: world around you. Welcome to You Need Therapy. Hi guys, 25 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: and welcome to a new episode of You Need Therapy 26 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: Podcast one, where we are going back to kind of 27 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: the roots of me as a therapist. And definitely I 28 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: think we did a lot more of these conversations in 29 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 1: the beginning of the podcast, but we're going back to 30 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: the roots of what I do as a therapist, and 31 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: that is talking about eating disorders and body image and 32 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: a lot of what comes along with that, including diet culture, 33 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: anti diet culture, body positivity, body neutrality, all of the 34 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: things that you see all over TikTok and Instagram and 35 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: whatever new social media avenue that you were on. Maybe 36 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: you're seeing it on threads now, because that, I guess 37 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: is a thing. And if you're like, what is threads? 38 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: I can't really tell you because I don't understand it. 39 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: But it's something that's similar to Twitter. And I'm getting 40 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 1: off topic, but I'm sitting here with a fellow therapist 41 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: from three Quarter Therapy, Josie. Welcome, Welcome, Thank you for 42 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: welcoming having me. That's like when you're at like, I 43 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:31,360 Speaker 1: don't know, you're somewhere, you're a redstaurant, and they're like, 44 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,799 Speaker 1: I hope you enjoy your meal, and you're like you two, 45 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: and then you're like, oh, I want to take it back. 46 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: Oh my god. You know what happened the other day 47 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 1: is I was at the grocery store and there's this 48 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: man greeting people and this woman was walking by and 49 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: he was like. 50 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 3: Hey, how are you doing? 51 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 1: And she was like, good, how are you doing? And 52 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: he goes, good, how are you? And she just kept 53 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: going back and forth because it's like you don't know 54 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: how to end it, and it's like, okay, but this 55 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: is over. I got to go. It was so awkward. Anyway, 56 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:06,679 Speaker 1: Oh that was good. That was the best way to 57 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: open this. Okay. So you work with body image and 58 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 1: eating disorders. It's one of the things that you enjoy 59 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: working with as a therapist. So I think to start 60 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 1: this what would be interesting because we all have our 61 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: stories of how and why we became therapists, and newsplash 62 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 1: to anybody who was wondering how that happens. Most people 63 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: don't just look at a list of careers and say 64 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 1: that's what I want to do. There's usually something when 65 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: it comes to being a therapist that encourages you. And 66 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: in that same realm, there's usually something that puts certain 67 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: things closer to your heart that you enjoy working with. 68 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: Some of them are personal experiences, some of them are 69 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: other reasons. But I want to know why you wanted 70 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: or enjoy working with eating disorders and body image. 71 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 3: This is a. 72 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 2: Very open conversation with me and my family, and that's 73 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,040 Speaker 2: why I feel comfortable talking about it. 74 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 3: But I grew up with a bariatric. 75 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 2: Surgeon as a father, so that's surgery for weight loss, 76 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 2: and a mother who was an you know, typical almond mom. 77 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 2: Everyone's seen it on TikTok so almond mommy meaning literally 78 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 2: would eat you know, nuts for lunch and not talk 79 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:17,919 Speaker 2: about like you need a vegetable and a fruit and 80 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 2: a meat and a protein of carb and all these things. 81 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:21,279 Speaker 2: I was like, all right, let's just grab some nuts 82 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 2: and let's eat it for lunch. And I'm like, I'm 83 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 2: still hungry, or like I've seen her try to decide 84 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 2: if she's gonna eat, you know, half a bagel or 85 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 2: a full bagel, because if you eat half the bagel, 86 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 2: then you can have that extra margarita at night. It's 87 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:39,040 Speaker 2: like the ongoing conversation about food and stressing about it. 88 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 2: And I kind of grew up in the environment both 89 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 2: positive and negative between my mom and my dad about 90 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 2: food and body image, and I had to kind of 91 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 2: take all of that and all of their input and 92 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 2: to decide what was important for me for food and 93 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 2: body image. 94 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 1: It just sounds like you grew up in an environment word, 95 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: no matter where you turned, there was a conversation about 96 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: weight and food. 97 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 2: Yes, there's always a conversation about weight and food, and 98 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:08,359 Speaker 2: like egg whites versus you know, eating the yolk, Like 99 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 2: it was just always in conversation. And one some of 100 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 2: the things were positive and I learned about food and 101 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 2: like what my body needs, and there are negative things 102 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 2: about it too. 103 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: This is going to be an interesting conversation because what 104 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 1: we're going to be talking about is something that you 105 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 1: actually have worked through on your own, and you have 106 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:31,039 Speaker 1: that extra piece of I know what it's like to 107 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 1: be in that space, and I know what it's like 108 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: to do some of this rewiring. I know what it's 109 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: like to have to look at all this information I 110 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:42,479 Speaker 1: was given at a very young age about food. And 111 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,359 Speaker 1: some of the information that you're being given is not 112 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: your mom or dad sitting you down being like this 113 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,479 Speaker 1: means this. It's stuff you observe, stuff you hear, stuff 114 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 1: you might just see. Yes, And so you have all 115 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: this information and you've had to do the work of 116 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: weeding through, making meaning out of that and noticing what 117 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:00,720 Speaker 1: I want to focus on one I don't. 118 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 2: And I think something I've realized is important as having 119 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 2: conversation with other family members, like my cousins, right, Like 120 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 2: having the conversations of like what we've all heard growing 121 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 2: up from love them, but from like our moms and 122 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 2: my aunt and what we've heard from them and what's 123 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 2: important to us, and we can all kind of talk 124 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 2: together and figure out, like how do we break that cycle, 125 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 2: and like what do we want it to look like 126 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 2: moving forward with us and with our children if we 127 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 2: have any. 128 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 1: Have you ever had conversations with your mom or your 129 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 1: dad about things that you don't want to hear from 130 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 1: them around that kind of stuff. 131 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, especially in college. 132 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, my body changed a million times in college, right, So, 133 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 2: like coming home and getting the oh, you look so skinny, 134 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 2: or it looks so good or coming home like getting 135 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 2: the other side of that, and either way, that's not helpful. 136 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 2: So I've had a lot of a lot of conversations 137 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 2: of like, let's just not talk about my body, right, 138 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 2: let's just talk about other things. I prefer not to 139 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 2: talk about mid Still. 140 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 1: How did you know I say this as when I 141 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: was in college, My brain did not did not think 142 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: this way. When I was in college, anybody who made 143 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: a comment about my body, I would either love it 144 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: if they made something that if they said like, oh 145 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: my gosh, you look so skinny and good and whatever, 146 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: I would love that. And if they said something that 147 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: was like oh, you look like you gained weight or 148 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: dah da da, I would then be like, Okay, what 149 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: do I need to do to fix that? And change that. 150 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: I wasn't in the place to be like I don't 151 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: appreciate you making comments in my body. 152 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 2: I think that I more have made comments about like 153 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 2: when there were negative comments made about food or body, 154 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 2: and I think I started to make more comments about 155 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 2: that and be like that's not helpful. 156 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 3: And also like I know that. 157 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 2: I've gained a few pounds, Like I'm not blind, you 158 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 2: don't have I'm an adult. Also like I'm an adult 159 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 2: and I know that I've gained a few pounds and 160 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 2: that's okay. I'm in college, i'm late not eating, I'm 161 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 2: doing all the things. And our bodies, my body change 162 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 2: changes every month, and that's okay. But I think it 163 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 2: was more of like the negative comments that were made 164 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 2: that I I started to have those conversations, and now 165 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 2: like after my mom and I've had those conversations, it's 166 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 2: pretty great. Like she doesn't make honestly zero comments about 167 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 2: my body one way or the other. 168 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: Well, that's nice. 169 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, It's it's really just about like conversations. It's like 170 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 2: advocating for yourself and figuring out what you need and 171 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 2: what I needed. 172 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I want to add because I love hearing that, 173 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 1: and I love hearing stories like that when you can 174 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: have a really honest conversation with a parent or anybody 175 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: and they can hear you and then be like, Okay, 176 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 1: I'm going to make an effort to shift. I might 177 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: mess up a couple times, so let me know if 178 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 1: I say something. And we'll get into this more as 179 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: we talk about what we're going to get into today. 180 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: But oftentimes, for whatever reason, the people that we share 181 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: our needs with don't respect them, and there are other 182 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 1: ways to move through that. If you have a family 183 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: member that you don't want to like blackball and never 184 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 1: see again or never talk to again, yet they still 185 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:02,319 Speaker 1: make comments about food and calories and their body and 186 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: your body and fitness, and they do all the things. 187 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: There are ways that you can create separation from what 188 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: you take on from that, and there are things you 189 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: can do to move through those feelings that come up 190 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: when you hear that stuff. And I want to say 191 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: that because we hope we all get an experience where 192 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,439 Speaker 1: the person is, oh my gosh, yes, I would love 193 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: to do what you are asking of me and help me. 194 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: Please let me know when I'm doing that so I 195 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: can shift that. And it doesn't happen a lot of times, 196 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: especially because these conversations aren't just with close family members. 197 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: They're with bosses, they're with friends, with coworkers, and we 198 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:39,559 Speaker 1: live in a world where everything is very black and white. 199 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: So it's either you did what I asked, or I 200 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: can't be friends with you, or I can't have a 201 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: relationship with you. And what if I would like you 202 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: to do this, and if you can't, I'm going to 203 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: do X in order to maintain my safety or whatever 204 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 1: it is. And it doesn't have to be you do 205 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: it or we never speak again. You do it, or 206 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: you hate me, Like there's just and have you that 207 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: black and white? 208 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,079 Speaker 2: So she was family, like I have clients that they 209 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 2: have all these conversations with their mom or whoever it is, 210 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 2: and it doesn't change a thing. But you know, it's 211 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 2: your mom, and this relationship is important to all my 212 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 2: clients that I'm thinking of, and so you have to 213 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 2: figure out how to make that relationship work and like 214 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 2: what boundaries you need for yourself to move forwards? And 215 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 2: you've tried X, Y and Z. 216 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: I was actually talking about this very recently with a 217 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: client of Okay, well, we know that's your mom, and 218 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: we actually could have predicted that she said that, and 219 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 1: so instead of she was she said something like I 220 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: should have said something or made a comment back or 221 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: put up a boundary. And I said, but we know 222 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 1: that's your mom. That doesn't surprise us. And you're saying anything, 223 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 1: we also have learned it's not going to change anything. 224 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: So what if you just stopped giving that attention and 225 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:50,680 Speaker 1: you just like go on with your day. Yeah, BacT 226 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:53,959 Speaker 1: like you like almost like silent treatment that Like she said, 227 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: I don't know what this person's mom said, but if 228 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: they say like, oh there's so many calories in this cookie, 229 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: you just this cookie is delicious. You just keep moving 230 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 1: and you don't have to actually engage in that conversation 231 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: with them anymore. Yeah, it's like not going to happen. 232 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 1: I mean, there's a million wiys to do it. We 233 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: could sit here and talk about that, yes, but we're 234 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: not going to because what I would like to talk 235 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: about today, what I think could be a really fruitful 236 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 1: conversation is really what's going on more so what we 237 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: see in social media and all that. But we have 238 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,079 Speaker 1: these these two ideals. I feel like, I don't even 239 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: know what to call this thing is, but the anti 240 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: diet culture warriors or whatever they are, we have these 241 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: two things that have been created and talked about and 242 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: set up to be these goals when it comes to 243 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:45,959 Speaker 1: body image work, and those are body positivity and body neutrality. 244 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: We've talked about those things many of times on the podcast. 245 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:52,319 Speaker 1: I do not think these things are bad, so I 246 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 1: don't want anybody to hear that and what I'm saying, 247 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 1: But we have these two things that oftentimes we get 248 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: in our head. We have to work towards them, and 249 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: we have to pick one and one is the right one, 250 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:06,199 Speaker 1: and we have to move towards that. And if we 251 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,559 Speaker 1: don't attain that goal, then we aren't doing good body 252 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: image work. And I want to have a conversation about that, 253 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 1: because I don't necessarily think that's always true. And I 254 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 1: want to give a little disclaimer before we get into this, 255 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: and that is and I want to give a little 256 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: disclaimer before we get into this, and that is, there 257 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: is not ever going to be one right way or 258 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 1: one right belief system when it comes to this kind 259 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: of stuff. So you can take what you want from 260 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 1: this conversation, and you can leave what you don't want. 261 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: You can think about it. You can sprinkle a little 262 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: bit in and see if it fits. It doesn't have 263 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 1: to be just like we're saying, nothing has to be 264 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: black or white, all or nothing. A lot of this 265 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: conversation is based off of our opinions of experience and 266 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:04,839 Speaker 1: not the facts of science and math. If therapy was math, 267 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 1: it would be so much easy. 268 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 4: Don't say easy, m M my least favorite subject in. 269 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: School, Yes, but I'm saying there would be like a 270 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 1: right way to do something on a wrong way to 271 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: do something. And the thing with our own personal work 272 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: is there's one million ways to do something. There's never 273 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: the right way. There's a lot of good ways, there's 274 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 1: some better ways, there's some not so great ways, but 275 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: there's just a lot of ways. Anyway, that was a 276 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 1: long winded way to say, I just want to talk 277 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: about these two things, body positivity and body neutrality, and 278 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: get your idea of what they are, and talk about 279 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 1: how you use them, on what you think about them, 280 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: because if you type that into the Internet, you're gonna 281 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:43,319 Speaker 1: get a lot of TikTok videos. 282 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I feel like on TikTok, body positivity 283 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 2: is like Lizo vibes of like I love myself, I'm amazing, 284 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 2: I'm so positive about my body. And then like, on 285 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 2: the other hand, body neutrality is more like I don't 286 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 2: care about my body, I don't care what it looks like. 287 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 2: But how I really talk to clients about it and 288 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 2: view it as a spectrum, Right, So, like we have 289 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 2: body negativity at one end, body neutrality somewhere in the middle, 290 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 2: body positivity at the other end, and it's like, really, 291 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 2: the core thing is like, how do we move away 292 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 2: from the negative body image self talk? I feel like 293 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 2: it's less about putting a label on the body neutrality 294 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 2: and the body positivity, which can one hundred percent be helpful, 295 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 2: but it's more about for me, like, how do we 296 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 2: move away from this really negative way that we're talking 297 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 2: about ourselves. 298 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: If you think about it, and anybody who has ever 299 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: struggled with negative body image or just body image in general, 300 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: if you've ever struggled with it, if you think about 301 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: let's just go with body positivity, because that came first, 302 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: and we're not even going to get into how it 303 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: even originated. It's been so morphed into something else. But 304 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: for the sake of this conversation, it is this idea, 305 00:14:55,560 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: in this drive to create this all encompassing, loving outlook 306 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: on your body, no matter what it looks like at 307 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: all times. And like you said, that could really work 308 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: for somebody, that can really be true to somebody. I 309 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: don't know that everybody out there who's posting their pictures 310 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: no matter what they look like and dah da da 311 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: and doing all the things, there's a million ways to 312 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: showcase that. I don't necessarily think everybody out there is 313 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 1: lying about that. I think some people might be. I 314 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: don't think everybody's lying about that. That can really work 315 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: for somebody, and that can be so helpful, and at 316 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: the same time, it can feel impossible to somebody else. 317 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 1: It can feel like a mountain that is never ending, 318 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: and it can become just so defeating and it not 319 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: fit with somebody. Just on the other side of this 320 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: body neutral thing. Again, I love the idea behind both 321 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: of these things. But the idea that I am always 322 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: going to think that I don't care about what I 323 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: look like, actually I'm gonna actually, I'm just gonna call 324 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 1: bullshit on the neutral part. I don't think it's a 325 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: bad concept. I don't know anybody who doesn't ever care 326 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: about what they look like. I haven't met that person. 327 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: So if you are that person, I would like to 328 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: talk to you, because it would be just an interesting conversation. 329 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: But I think it is in our DNA to care. 330 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: It might not be I care and the way that 331 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: I need to look like this model that's on this cover. 332 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: But think about body image is not just the size 333 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: of my waist. What we look like is about the 334 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 1: kind of clothes we wear, the color of our hair, 335 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: how we do our makeup, like all of that self 336 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: expression that. 337 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 4: We all love a good outfit, right, and. 338 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: Like if I wanted to dye my hair purple, or 339 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: I want to dye my hair blonde or whatever, Like 340 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: if I want to do the crazy makeup in bright 341 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: color eyeeshadow, or I want to have a neutral glowy like. 342 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: There are a million ways that we look at ourselves 343 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 1: and have opinions about what we look like. And I 344 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: think it's not fair to us times to say you 345 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 1: shouldn't care about anything, because it is a way that 346 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 1: we show who we are to the world, and it 347 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:08,920 Speaker 1: is a really it can be a really cool way 348 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: to express that if we do it in a healthy way. 349 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: For sure, we have to know the why behind the what. 350 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,199 Speaker 1: And so I say all that because I love this 351 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,399 Speaker 1: idea that you said you talked to clients about the 352 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 1: spectrum of it. You don't have to be working towards 353 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 1: this or working towards this and that's the end goal 354 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 1: and there's going to be a finish line. We have 355 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 1: to assess every day how we're feeling so we can 356 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 1: actually attune to what we need that day. And to me, 357 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 1: that relieves a lot of I think shame from that 358 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: experience of body image work. Yeah, and it's. 359 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 2: Ever changing, especially being a woman and bloating, right, yeah, 360 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 2: like our bodies aren't changing every single day. 361 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,199 Speaker 1: And are you allowed to have a feeling about you 362 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: being bloated? Yes, I think that. I think though it 363 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: might be a little controversial to some people out there, 364 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:00,040 Speaker 1: and that's okay if you don't agree with it. But 365 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: I do think it's fair to let people have feelings 366 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 1: about what's going on with them. 367 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, like, oh I just feel bloated today, and that's okay. 368 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:10,679 Speaker 2: And then I talked to clients about like we have 369 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 2: to remind ourselves that we are a woman and it's 370 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 2: okay to feel bloated and it's just a part of 371 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:17,399 Speaker 2: being also being a human. 372 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 1: So what you're saying is, oh I feel so bloated. 373 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: Da da dum mabe your pants are really tight, because whatever, 374 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 1: Like that's a real thing. I can have a feeling 375 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 1: about that. Now. It doesn't mean, oh I'm bloated. Nobody 376 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:31,719 Speaker 1: needs to see me. I need to hide this. Da 377 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:33,679 Speaker 1: da da da da. I'm bad. It doesn't have to 378 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,719 Speaker 1: go into these I need to lose fifteen pounds so 379 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 1: I fit in with society. It doesn't have to go 380 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: to that extreme. But you are allowed to care about 381 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 1: what you look like. You are allowed to care about 382 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 1: what your body feels like, and I think that is 383 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 1: a very important thing. 384 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 2: And also comfort, Like I don't want or need to 385 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 2: wear a crop top when i'm feeling bloated, like on 386 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 2: you know, before I came over here, I must put 387 00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 2: on leggings. But I'm feeling bloated because stay it up 388 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 2: my friend still three am and the you know, like 389 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 2: I had a big weekend and I'm feeling I ate 390 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,439 Speaker 2: rich foods and did all the things, so I'm feeling bloated. 391 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 2: So instead I put on a pair of sweatpants just 392 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 2: because I feel more comfortable. Like my stomach pushing up 393 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 2: against the leggings does not feel comfortable. Right now, I 394 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 2: feel comfortable in sweatpants and that's okay. 395 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 1: And you're not going to then because you're bloated, You're 396 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:24,640 Speaker 1: not going to then I'm not going to eat today, yes, 397 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: or I need to go run fifteen miles or whatever 398 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:28,640 Speaker 1: it is. It's no. I'm just gonna put on sweatpants 399 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:29,160 Speaker 1: because they're more. 400 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,479 Speaker 3: Comfortable and I'm not eating a good dinner, and I 401 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 3: just yes. 402 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: I just think that people are afraid to say that. 403 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: And if we're all afraid to say that, then I 404 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: think what happens is we really do ourselves at disservice. 405 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:41,679 Speaker 1: Because one of my favorite things to remind people is 406 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 1: we cannot heal things that we refuse to acknowledge. So 407 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,640 Speaker 1: if I am hiding a secret about how I feel 408 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: about my body, then I don't get to actually wrestle 409 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,239 Speaker 1: with that belief and actually see if it's something that 410 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 1: makes sense to me or not. It just is like 411 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,399 Speaker 1: I'm faking it to fit in with what the people 412 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: say on the internet. I should be and what I 413 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,400 Speaker 1: should be thinking, what I should be feeling. My goal 414 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,120 Speaker 1: for these conversations most of the time with the podcast 415 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 1: is I want people to be able to be more 416 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 1: themselves and less what the world is telling them to be. Yes, 417 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: and that is true of diet culture. I don't want 418 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: you to be in line with that. It's also the 419 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,399 Speaker 1: anti diet culture. I want you you don't have to 420 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 1: take everything at face value. Some things are going to fit, 421 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 1: some things aren't. And there's nothing wrong with you saying 422 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: I wanted to wear looser clothes. 423 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 3: Nothing there's nothing. 424 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,119 Speaker 1: And I will say there was a point where I 425 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 1: would never have said that. I would have been like, 426 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: you need to wear them in any way because you 427 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 1: just need to tell yourself that it's okay. But it's uncomfortable. Yes, 428 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:37,920 Speaker 1: oh my. 429 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 4: Gosh, like unbuttoning my jeans at dinner. 430 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 3: I'm like, I can't work. 431 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 1: Wait, I think you did that one day when we 432 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:43,959 Speaker 1: were were you was that you? 433 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 4: I do that all the time, like my telehealth clients. 434 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 2: You know, my genes might be unbuttoned like computer screen 435 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 2: because I just say. 436 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 3: Lunch and I'm so full. 437 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I most of the people that listen know 438 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: that I used to work in fitness and one thing 439 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: that I saw a lot is the shifts of style 440 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 1: in the Finnis community. So when I started, it was 441 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,479 Speaker 1: like you were in like baggy sweatpants or leggings like 442 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: the flare leggings or whatever. I guess they're not back 443 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,919 Speaker 1: in now, and then like a baggy T shirt. There 444 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:17,640 Speaker 1: was no like sets or any of that. But then 445 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,360 Speaker 1: there's been this shift to like now you wear these 446 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 1: type of leggings in this matchom set and this thing 447 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 1: and this crop top in dat da dead and there's 448 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 1: a time and a place where I love all of that. 449 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: And the last thing I want to do most of 450 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 1: the time depend on the workout, is have on an 451 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: outfit that I don't feel comfortable in as I am 452 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: working out and moving my body and doing this and that. 453 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 1: It doesn't mean I hate my body. It doesn't mean 454 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: that at all. It means that I want less distractions 455 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: in my workout. I don't want to be thinking about 456 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 1: what I look like. I don't want to be thinking 457 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: about my leggings rolling down or my boob popping out 458 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,879 Speaker 1: of this one shouldered bra. I do not understand the 459 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 1: one I've been seeing that on Polton lately. 460 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 2: I'm like why, but like, yes, why why looks so uncomfortable? 461 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 3: Like pulling it up the whole time? 462 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people and I this is 463 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,719 Speaker 1: what I was gonna say before is I used to 464 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,120 Speaker 1: be somebody who would say, no, you need to wear 465 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: that and push the boundary. And if you care about 466 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: what you look like in your outfit and you and 467 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: you don't want people to see that about your body, 468 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 1: then then that means that you still have these beliefs 469 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 1: about dadta de And no, it doesn't I think that 470 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: we need to allow people to care about things that 471 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 1: you might not care about. I think we need to 472 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: allow people to do what they feel the most comfortable doing, 473 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: versus do what we think is the right thing based 474 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,640 Speaker 1: on our experience. And there is nothing wrong. I say 475 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 1: this with clients all the time. We should always have 476 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: one or two comfort outfits, their outfits that you know, 477 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: if you're having a bad day, it doesn't even have 478 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:53,159 Speaker 1: to be about your body. You can just be like 479 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: you're having a bad day, I know, I'm going to 480 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 1: put that outfit on and I'm not going to think 481 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,160 Speaker 1: twice about anything. Yeah, I'm going to be comfy. I'm 482 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 1: going to like it. I'm gonna feel good in the clothing. 483 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 1: And sometimes we need that. Yeah, they don't call them 484 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: comfort outfits. I call them emergency outfits. There are some 485 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,439 Speaker 1: people that might not believe that, and that's okay, but 486 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 1: I want to allow a space where that could be 487 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 1: a thing if you need it. 488 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:20,680 Speaker 2: And I think the key piece here is mindfulness, which 489 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 2: for me is being aware without judgment. So, like, let's 490 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 2: just use today for example, like me being bloated, I'm 491 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 2: aware of that I drank one to any Margarita's over 492 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 2: the weekend, and I don't regret it. It was a 493 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 2: lot of fun. But I'm aware that I'm bloated. I'm 494 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 2: not gonna judge it. Like, yeah, I'm bloated. Let's just 495 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 2: throw on some different pants so I feel comfy. It's 496 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,679 Speaker 2: like with all like the negative body image talk, like 497 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,119 Speaker 2: just really being aware of how you're talking to yourself 498 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 2: but not judging it because all the negative body image 499 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 2: messages and all the things are all ingrained in us 500 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 2: from other people. They're ingrained from our families. 501 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: Your almand mom. 502 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 2: I love my almond mom, but yes, families, friends, middle school, 503 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 2: high school, society. Like all these messages, good or bad, 504 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 2: are ingrained in us from other people, and it's really 505 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 2: important to be mindful of Like, oh, I just said 506 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 2: that about myself, and I'm not going to judge it 507 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 2: because this came from so many other things, right, But 508 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 2: like I mean with the like you know, body image talk, 509 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 2: like being mindful of I just said that about myself, 510 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,679 Speaker 2: And what's another way to say that? Or and how 511 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 2: do I move on with my day? And how do 512 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 2: I be present with my friends? 513 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,400 Speaker 1: That is so important for you to say that and 514 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 1: for people to hear that, because this is one of 515 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: the biggest issues I have with the pop culture version 516 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:42,879 Speaker 1: of body positivity and body neutrality and body image work 517 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: is that we are still putting so much emphasis on 518 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: convincing ourselves and convincing other people that we are okay 519 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: with what we look like and other people should be 520 00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: okay with it. And a huge part of body image 521 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: work is shifting our value system so we can actually 522 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,679 Speaker 1: pay more attention to things other than what our bodies 523 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,159 Speaker 1: look like, and other than if we're fitting in with 524 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:19,200 Speaker 1: the certain norm of what we should be wearing or 525 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: how we should be posing, or the makeup we should 526 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 1: be doing. And I posted about this a couple of 527 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,919 Speaker 1: weeks ago on the Three Quarts Therapy Instagram. But I 528 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: see so many wonderful pictures that people post on Instagram, 529 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: A lot of them bikini pictures, bathing suit pictures, pictures 530 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 1: where there's stomach show, some part of their body is showing, 531 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: and then the caption is all about their body and 532 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 1: it's a positive message. But we're taking this great picture 533 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 1: where we could be talking about so many other things 534 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,159 Speaker 1: or nothing at all. Yeah, and we are forcing the 535 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,919 Speaker 1: conversation to continue to be about what we look like. 536 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:02,199 Speaker 1: And I really believe part of the the movement was 537 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: intended to make the conversation less about our body. Years ago, 538 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:08,400 Speaker 1: I think it was like two or three years ago, 539 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: I had a conversation with a trainer her name is 540 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: Kaisa on the podcast, and I asked her what she 541 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,239 Speaker 1: thought about body positivity, because I would have thought she 542 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: was a body positivity crusader from what she posts on 543 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,640 Speaker 1: that on the internet, and she just goes, fuck body positivity. 544 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 1: Like stop, she said, stop talking about my body. I 545 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: don't want to talk about it. I want you to 546 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,399 Speaker 1: be talking about what I'm doing in my videos. I 547 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 1: want you to be talking about how you feel. When 548 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,399 Speaker 1: she's a trainer, so she puts out like programs and stuff, 549 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: how how you feel in da da Da Da? But 550 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 1: I just want you to stop talking about it. Why 551 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,679 Speaker 1: does everything I do have to come back to me 552 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: loving what my body looks like like or not loving 553 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 1: what my body looks like. I just want to be 554 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: able to be in a video or a picture, and 555 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 1: I don't want you to tell me. I'm adding to 556 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 1: what she said, but I don't want you to tell 557 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: me what I should and shouldn't think about it, and 558 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: that is such a powerful sentiment that how can we 559 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:08,679 Speaker 1: make the conversation less about forcing a narrative or pushing 560 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 1: a narrative away? Yeah, how do we just change the 561 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: topic of the conversation to not be about how tight 562 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: my pants are? Or how do we change the conversation 563 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: to not be about I don't look like the standard 564 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: da da da, but I'm still worthy. You don't have 565 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 1: to tell us that. You just get to be. 566 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 2: It earlier talking And I like how you said about 567 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,239 Speaker 2: like looking in the mirror and when you you know, 568 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 2: instead of saying like, my pants are so tight, okay, 569 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 2: we can say that and again mindful like I'm mindfully 570 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 2: aware that I just said that about myself and instead 571 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 2: of like making that whole conversation in the mirror about 572 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 2: your body, instead being. 573 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 3: Like, I'm gonna have a good day. 574 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 2: Even changing one word and your sentence can make a difference. 575 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 2: I say to myself all the time, like if I have, 576 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 2: you know, seven clients in one day, instead of saying like, 577 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 2: I'm so busy today, I like to say, oh my gosh, 578 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 2: my day is so full. Now, I'm so full today, 579 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 2: My day is so full. This is amazing. Like just 580 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 2: even changing like one word between I've a day and 581 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 2: I of a full day can make a difference in 582 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 2: the way the. 583 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 3: Way I feel about myself day busy, so that the. 584 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: Way you say that sounds a negative of a busy day, oh, 585 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: versus I have a full day that could be so exciting, 586 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 1: like my caselet is full or I'm excited to do 587 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 1: the I like my job and I get to do 588 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:16,919 Speaker 1: it all day. 589 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 2: Yes, I get to like wake up and go to work, 590 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:25,159 Speaker 2: you know, I get to have this day. 591 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: You were talking about the things that you would say 592 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:32,880 Speaker 1: in the mirror of like the noticing and then how 593 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,440 Speaker 1: you can shift all that. I don't know if we've 594 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,159 Speaker 1: talked about this or if you've just heard it from 595 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: somebody else, because I didn't invent this metaphor. But the 596 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 1: way I explain this is our belief systems and the 597 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 1: like track our mind goes on. Like if I look 598 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: in the mirror and the first thing I think usually 599 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: is ough my stomach. If that's just what my body is, 600 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: my mind is used to going to. So I think 601 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: of those as little rivers in our brain. There's like 602 00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: just tracks we get on. Did we talk about this. 603 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 4: I think like a little wild okay. 604 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 1: Okay, And I'm having like a daja I talk about 605 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 1: and for whoever was not in that room with us. 606 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: So those like belief systems and those tracks that our 607 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 1: brain go down, they're like little rivers in our brain. 608 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: I think of the narrow pathways in our brain as rivers. 609 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 1: And how rivers are formed is the more water you 610 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 1: put down them, the faster they flow, the deeper they are, 611 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: the wider they get, the stronger they are. And the 612 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 1: crazy thing about that is, you can start a new river, right, 613 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 1: you just have to keep putting water down it. The 614 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: coolest thing about that is you also can dry a 615 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: river up you stop feeding the river. And so as 616 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 1: you're talking about these ways, you can shift your thinking. 617 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 1: I can look in the mirror and I can notice 618 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: a thought, and I can notice it, I can acknowledge it, 619 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 1: and I can add something to it. Yes, what you're 620 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: doing is you're starting to create another river. And hopefully 621 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 1: one day the second river will be the first thought. 622 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: And when you stop watering and putting so much emphasis 623 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: on the icky thought you had at first, the less 624 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 1: it's going to pop up, and the less I spend 625 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 1: time forcing myself to think about what my body looks like, 626 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 1: whether I'm forcing myself to think it looks good or bad. 627 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 1: The less time my brain is looking to find connections 628 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 1: to that throughout the day, the more time I spend 629 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 1: looking for things I enjoyed about my day, or foods 630 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: that tasted good that I'm glad I had, or the 631 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 1: more you get what I'm saying, the more you put 632 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 1: emphasis on that, the more those are going to start 633 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 1: to show up in the forefront of your brain. And 634 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 1: that's going to be the river you're running down. So 635 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 1: that goes to my point of if we want to 636 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 1: stop having such icky relationships with our bodies and constantly 637 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: be focused on them all of the time, we have 638 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 1: to start talking about something else. You have to. 639 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 4: Actively rewire your brain to talk about something else. 640 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: And you said earlier when we were talking too, I 641 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 1: don't know if you've said this during this conversation, that really, 642 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: when it comes to body positivity and body neutrality, like 643 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 1: we get stuck on reaching one of those Do I 644 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: want to be positive? Do I want to be But 645 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 1: the reality is when they're thinking about wanting one of those, 646 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 1: what are they really trying to do? 647 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 4: Really, just change your relationship with your body. 648 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 1: Right, So this goes back to the beginning of it 649 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 1: gets to be so individual. And if I start focusing 650 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 1: more on me and what I need and how to 651 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 1: create a kinder relationship with me and my body's part 652 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: of me, then all of this nonsense is not nonsense. 653 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 1: All of this other stuff it gets lost in the woods, 654 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: and I don't get tangled in those weeds because I 655 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: keep going back to what fits for me versus how 656 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 1: do I fit into one of these boxes? 657 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's why. One of the things I do with 658 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 4: clients is a lot of values work, right, Like what 659 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 4: are your values to the. 660 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 3: Core as a person? 661 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:02,720 Speaker 1: Right? 662 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 3: And like how can we be more aligned with those? 663 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 1: You know what's funny is the episode that came out 664 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 1: this week when you're listening to this will be last week, 665 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: but you listen to it you this morning? 666 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I listened to it because I listened to it 667 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 2: this morning and was shocked to that Cat had never seen. 668 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 3: The movie Holes before. That's ridiculous. 669 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: I've seen it so many times. I've seen it once 670 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,479 Speaker 1: and it's a crazy movie. The onions. I just like, 671 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: whoever came up anyway, that's not what I was gonna say, 672 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 1: but the episode was. It was a short episode. If 673 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 1: you haven't listened to it, you can go back and 674 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 1: listen to it. But one of the things that I 675 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 1: was talking about, the main thing I was talking about, 676 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: was this difference between self improvement or self acceptance. How 677 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 1: can they co exist or should we pick one. One 678 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 1: of the things I talked about at the end is 679 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: we're always going to be struggling if we don't identify 680 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 1: our values. Yes, if we don't identify our values, we're 681 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 1: always going to struggle because we're just going to go 682 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: with what people tell us to do and what we 683 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 1: should like. But that might not fit with the core 684 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: of who we are. And so there's going to be 685 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: something in us that's always longing for something else. So 686 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 1: unless I identify my values, I am always going to 687 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: feel lost and I'm always going to feel like I'm 688 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 1: on this path and I have to get somewhere, versus 689 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: I'm working towards what I want to work towards. And 690 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: your values don't have to be the same as anyone else's. 691 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,440 Speaker 3: And they also can change throughout changing. 692 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 1: Oh that's nice, as they can change, and that's important, 693 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 1: right because my values when I was twenty three are 694 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 1: not my value. That doesn't mean when I was twenty 695 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: three as bad. Yeah, but I've shifted and I've grown 696 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:44,080 Speaker 1: and I've learned things. And one of my favorite things 697 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 1: to remind people is you get to change your mind 698 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: and you can't know what you didn't know. So when 699 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 1: I get more information, I get to shift, and when 700 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 1: I learn more about what's important to me at the 701 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: stage in my life, some of those old values might fall. 702 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 3: Yep, Okay. 703 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 1: So if somebody is listening out there and they're relating 704 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: to what we're saying some the stuff that you've said 705 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 1: about body image and body image work, and they're like, oh, yes, 706 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,759 Speaker 1: like that is an invitation that I haven't had yet 707 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 1: and that feels good. Where would you suggest somebody starts 708 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 1: with any of that? 709 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 2: I would say, which is what I say to my clients. 710 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 2: I do think that looking at that spectrum of body negativity, 711 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 2: body neutrality, body positivity can be helpful. I do think 712 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,240 Speaker 2: looking at it can be helpful. For example, like looking 713 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,319 Speaker 2: in the mirror and what do we say earlier, like 714 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,960 Speaker 2: oh my genes are too tight, or look in the 715 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:41,800 Speaker 2: mirror and be like, oh my legs are so big 716 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,440 Speaker 2: I've said that before. I do think it's helpful to 717 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 2: be like, even, what is a more neutral way to 718 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 2: talk about my legs? My legs are okay, I don't 719 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 2: love them, but they're fine. Or I don't love my legs, 720 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,359 Speaker 2: but I do like my hair today. I do think 721 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 2: it's helpful to walk that way of like, how can 722 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,080 Speaker 2: I change the way I'm talking about my body? And 723 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,879 Speaker 2: I think it's helpful, like we've talked about to change 724 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,160 Speaker 2: the conversation all together off your body and to look 725 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:07,840 Speaker 2: in the mirror and say I'm not a good day today, 726 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,719 Speaker 2: or just like changing that conversation not talking about a 727 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:12,800 Speaker 2: body at all. I do think both have a place 728 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:15,240 Speaker 2: and talking about body image. 729 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 1: What you're saying is a good place to start would 730 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 1: be to notice the conversations you're having. Yes, notice the 731 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 1: conversation without judgment. That's what I do for a living, 732 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 1: as I paraphrase what people say. But I agree with that. 733 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 1: I think a good place to start with anybody is Okay, Well, 734 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,279 Speaker 1: let's see. Let's notice the verbiage you use, Let's notice 735 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,719 Speaker 1: the language use. Let's notice how much this comes up 736 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 1: and start journaling about it, start writing it, start taking 737 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: note of what you're saying and how you're speaking to yourself, 738 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 1: so then you know what you're working with. Then you 739 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,480 Speaker 1: get to do that thing of identifying where these these 740 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:52,960 Speaker 1: things are coming from. Then you get to do the 741 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,400 Speaker 1: work of and this is hard work. This isn't like 742 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:57,439 Speaker 1: and today you're gonna do this, and tomorrow you're gonna 743 00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 1: do this, and then the next day you'll be done. 744 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,719 Speaker 1: You identify where these beliefs come from, then we have 745 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:07,200 Speaker 1: to do the work to untie and figure out do 746 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,840 Speaker 1: I actually believe this stuff or is this just ingrained 747 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 1: in me? And then you get to do the work 748 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 1: of untying the meaning of it. So there's a lot 749 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 1: in it. And I don't say that to overwhelm you. 750 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,839 Speaker 1: And this is hard work, so you shouldn't start. I 751 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 1: say that to remind everybody that everybody has to start 752 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,479 Speaker 1: this work. And it might seem like not the most 753 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,400 Speaker 1: shock value thing, but the best way to start is 754 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 1: to just start noticing. 755 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I like that you out of the piece 756 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 2: about journaling. I was just working with a client who 757 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,759 Speaker 2: not with body image, but like she's having intrusive thoughts 758 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:38,439 Speaker 2: and she's really anxious, and I was like Okay, let's 759 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 2: start with writing down these thoughts. 760 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 4: What do these thoughts look like? Let's look at them. 761 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,920 Speaker 2: And then also, I just freaking love self compassion. I 762 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:48,840 Speaker 2: do a lot of self compassion work with clients. 763 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,319 Speaker 4: I'm getting off topic point being no, that's so good. 764 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,719 Speaker 1: Okay, the self compassion part, I don't know we talk 765 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:56,840 Speaker 1: about it as much as we. 766 00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 3: Should have self compassion. 767 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: I do have an episode about that. If anybody wants 768 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:02,919 Speaker 1: to go listen to that, we could do a whole 769 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 1: other one. But part of self compassion is acknowledging that 770 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 1: there are gonna be things that I don't like. 771 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,360 Speaker 4: Yes, and this is gonna be hard, yes, right. 772 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,439 Speaker 1: And denying that does do nothing, And then you get 773 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 1: to treat yourself as the way you would any other human, 774 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,560 Speaker 1: a friend. You wouldn't be like you stuck at this 775 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,920 Speaker 1: so you don't get to have good body image. It's like, oh, no, 776 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: this is really hard and this is gonna be tough, 777 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:32,759 Speaker 1: and I'm not gonna like it all the time, and 778 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 1: I'm worth doing this. 779 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,880 Speaker 2: Yes, And going back to like, writing down the thoughts 780 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 2: can be so helpful because when we like have a 781 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,239 Speaker 2: thought about body image or negative thought about ourselves, I 782 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 2: feel like a lot of people try to like avoid 783 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 2: it or run away from it or ignore it and 784 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 2: just like push it down, but then it pops back up. 785 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 2: So it's really important to be like, oh, I see 786 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:55,920 Speaker 2: this thought, I see that I'm having it again. I'm 787 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,880 Speaker 2: the mindfulness love it. It's really important to sit with 788 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 2: it and be mindful of it right down, talk about 789 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,680 Speaker 2: with your therapist, with your friends, with your partner, whatever 790 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 2: it is again first step looking at those thoughts, I. 791 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 1: Think you just hit kind of a nail on the 792 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,000 Speaker 1: head for me as one of the reasons I get 793 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:17,200 Speaker 1: so frustrated with people shoving body positivity or neutrality down 794 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 1: our throats. Not that everybody's doing that, but sometimes I 795 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,840 Speaker 1: get overwhelmed with that because to your point, if you 796 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 1: don't acknowledge it, it's not like it disappears. Yeah, it 797 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,800 Speaker 1: either gets louder or it shows up somewhere else contorted 798 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,239 Speaker 1: a different way. So it's not a bad thing to 799 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,040 Speaker 1: acknowledge and be honest about where we are. 800 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,320 Speaker 4: Yes, I think it's needed. 801 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, So there you have it, guys. I love having 802 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 1: these kind of conversations because, like I said, it's back 803 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,319 Speaker 1: to the roots of what I used to do all 804 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,840 Speaker 1: day every day is just work with body image eating disorders, 805 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,480 Speaker 1: and I have a special place in my heart for 806 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,440 Speaker 1: it because it's something that I mean, any human living 807 00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 1: in the world is going to bump up against image 808 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:03,279 Speaker 1: in some way, and it's something that I think has 809 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:07,280 Speaker 1: been a crisis, especially in our culture. So I'm always 810 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,799 Speaker 1: here for these conversations. If you guys have any questions 811 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 1: or comments or anything, you can always email me Katherine 812 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:20,080 Speaker 1: at therapy at podcast dot com. If you are like, hey, 813 00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,799 Speaker 1: Josie sounds amazing and you happen to live in the 814 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:27,799 Speaker 1: state of Tennessee, which is key, you can contact her 815 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,560 Speaker 1: by going to our website three Chords Therapy dot com. 816 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,160 Speaker 1: I'll put all of this in the show notes, so 817 00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:35,760 Speaker 1: you can just click go, send her a little message 818 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:37,839 Speaker 1: on our website and you can get set up with her. 819 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,960 Speaker 1: You can follow me at Kat dot Defada and at 820 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,560 Speaker 1: uned Therapy podcast on Instagram, and you can follow three 821 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,080 Speaker 1: Chords Therapy on Instagram. I told you guys about that 822 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,319 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago, but three Chords Therapy is 823 00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:55,239 Speaker 1: my therapy practice, and I start a little page for 824 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,280 Speaker 1: us on the internet. So I think that we deserve 825 00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:01,239 Speaker 1: a spot there, Yeah, to share our thoughts. Yeah, and 826 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,920 Speaker 1: it has some nice calming colors and so you can 827 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:05,799 Speaker 1: just look at the page and it kind of brings this, 828 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,759 Speaker 1: you know, aura, Is that the right time? Good vibes? Yes, 829 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:10,800 Speaker 1: it's a nice vibe. 830 00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:11,560 Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. 831 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,960 Speaker 4: Remember when you there told me the other day, a 832 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:17,239 Speaker 4: new client told me that I had good vibes, and 833 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:19,040 Speaker 4: I'll thank you. 834 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 1: That's I love such a good everybody wants to hear 835 00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 1: that session. You had bad vibes in it? No, And 836 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,520 Speaker 1: that speaks to something you say, a lot of finding 837 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,680 Speaker 1: a therapist is like dating. Oh my god, if you don't, 838 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:36,520 Speaker 1: if you have a bad experience, you're allowed to have 839 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,640 Speaker 1: that bad experience. Now, I will say, sometimes you need 840 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:43,480 Speaker 1: to give it another go, because you can't tell everything 841 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,160 Speaker 1: from somebody from a first session. Sometimes you can know 842 00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,040 Speaker 1: that it's not for you. But I'm going on this 843 00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:53,680 Speaker 1: tangent to say, if you are in therapy and you're like, oh, 844 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:55,960 Speaker 1: I don't know if I if I really feel like 845 00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:57,759 Speaker 1: I can can be myself with this therapist, it doesn't 846 00:40:57,800 --> 00:40:59,799 Speaker 1: mean that therapy is not for you. And I mean 847 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,960 Speaker 1: you need a therapist that you feel more comfortable with. 848 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:04,759 Speaker 1: And it doesn't mean that therapist is bad. It just 849 00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:06,399 Speaker 1: means we're all different and we need different things. 850 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:06,879 Speaker 4: Mm hmm. 851 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,520 Speaker 1: Absolutely, any who'sy, We're gonna wrap this up again. If 852 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:12,799 Speaker 1: you have any questions send them to us. You can 853 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,000 Speaker 1: come on whenever for a couch talks. If you guys 854 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,440 Speaker 1: don't know what that is, it is the bonus episode 855 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,680 Speaker 1: I do every Wednesday, where you guys send in questions 856 00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:22,160 Speaker 1: and I answer them to the best of my ability. 857 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:24,280 Speaker 1: But if you have questions for any of the therapists 858 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,040 Speaker 1: at three Chords, that's an easy way to access four 859 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:28,160 Speaker 1: therapists at once. 860 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:30,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, please do. I'm having so much fun. 861 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:33,000 Speaker 1: So thank you guys, and I hope you're having the 862 00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:35,160 Speaker 1: day you need to have, the week you need to have, 863 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:37,880 Speaker 1: the hour you need to have. Do you watch friends? 864 00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:41,040 Speaker 1: What is their song that I couldn't tell you? The week, 865 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,800 Speaker 1: the dada da or even your year? Don't they say? 866 00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:46,560 Speaker 1: I just reminded myself of that song and I don't 867 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:47,560 Speaker 1: even know how the song goes. 868 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,560 Speaker 2: I can like hear it and I can visualize them 869 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,279 Speaker 2: like running around the song that I cannot I could 870 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:53,640 Speaker 2: not do it. 871 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:54,439 Speaker 3: I'll be there for. 872 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,560 Speaker 1: You your day, your week, your month, or even you. Ye, 873 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:01,200 Speaker 1: isn't it say that anyway, the day you need to have. 874 00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:02,759 Speaker 3: There we go, bye bye 875 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:10,520 Speaker 1: H