1 00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:02,640 Speaker 1: I'm Anoni. 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:03,040 Speaker 2: Hi. 3 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: My name is Ananaya. This is Gaydar. 4 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 3: Hi. 5 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: I'm Anonaya. This is gad Ar. Today. IM gonna find 6 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: out if you're a gay, straight, or a homosode. I 7 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:10,040 Speaker 1: want to say you are gay. 8 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:11,039 Speaker 4: Yeah, gay. 9 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: I'm gonna say you're like a fem bisexual. But it's 10 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: a very new thing. I am a fem bisexual. 11 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 4: It's not a new thing. 12 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with your straight. But how to by 13 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: curious phase? 14 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 4: I wish I were by I really tried. 15 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: I tried. I have a theory for Prince. I think 16 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: Prince was a hehamem lesbian. I say this all the time. 17 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 4: That's a really good theory. 18 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you. I came up with it myself. 19 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:40,879 Speaker 4: Do you recognize that voice? The host of Gatar might 20 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 4: be all over your social feed telling people who they are, 21 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 4: but who is she really? This week we bring you 22 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 4: an Anaya's story of self actualization, community and love. I'm 23 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 4: hopewordered and welcome to voiceover a space where we're learning, 24 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 4: and I'm learning all the myths we're taught about love 25 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 4: and relationships. Our guest today does it all. She's a singer, dancer, actor, 26 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 4: and drag queen. She's also the host of the popular 27 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 4: TikTok series Gaydar, where she's told guests like Renee Rap 28 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,319 Speaker 4: so're on, Mom, Donnie, and Chapel Roone whether they are gay, straight, 29 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 4: or a homophobe. She is Ananaya, and I really wanted 30 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 4: to talk to her to better understand the work that 31 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 4: went into becoming who she is now and what she's 32 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 4: facing in her day to day And honestly, I just 33 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 4: wanted to shoot the shit with someone smart, funny, and confident. 34 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 4: Welcome to the show, Anna Anaya. 35 00:01:58,360 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: Hi. 36 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 4: Hi, you live in New York. Your family, though, is 37 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 4: in Chicago. 38 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: I'm from Iowa. 39 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 4: You're from Iowa. How has that transition been? 40 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: Transition? 41 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 4: No, but like you grew up in a small town. 42 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I guess in the context of the nation. Yeah, 43 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: in context of Iowa, I was from like the third 44 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: largest city or something like that. Okay, So I didn't 45 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: feel like that until I moved to Boston for school. 46 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 4: Okay. Yeah, walk me through your childhood a little, your 47 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:29,919 Speaker 4: family vibes. 48 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,079 Speaker 1: It was me and my mom for a very long time. 49 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: My dad started getting visitation again, which is crazy. Okay, 50 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: around nine years old, Okay, and yeah, it wasn't easy. 51 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: Me and my parents have a really hard relationship. But 52 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: the thing that I wish I had more of was 53 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:51,799 Speaker 1: like time to just figure some shit out, like back 54 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: in the back then, back then. Yeah, I feel like 55 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: it was survival mode, you know, for eighteen years of 56 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: my life. I'm really honored that I figured some Yeah, totally. 57 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 4: I went down a rabbit hole on your TikTok oh 58 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 4: and I was listening to your actual singing voice. You 59 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 4: are a wonderful singer. Oh so I was like wow, 60 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 4: And so I was curious, like where that came from. 61 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 4: What sort of introduced you generally to like performing. 62 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 1: I did start in the church, like every other black 63 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 1: kid in the middle of nowhere. I mean, I always 64 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: say this, I'm always grateful to the church for showing 65 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 1: me gospel music because that's exactly how I did get started. 66 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: If I ever have kids, I want to show them 67 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 1: gospel music and not necessarily the church. And then I 68 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: started doing choir in school and just like random gigs 69 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: and stuff like that. 70 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 4: Who was sort of like supporting you during that time? 71 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 4: Did you have somebody who was like, You're an amazing performer, 72 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 4: follow this truth or was it sort of just internal. 73 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I had a couple of people. I'm thinking of 74 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: my high school a choir director, Michael Reese. He was great. 75 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: He was like a fun little guy. I think what 76 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: I liked about him the most was that he pushed 77 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: me to be a better performer, which in turn like 78 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: made me like get out of my own head and 79 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: troubles at home, which is really nice. Yeah, my theater director. 80 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: She was so motherly when I needed it, you know 81 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 1: what I mean. And I do theater now because of her, 82 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: And it's just like I want to always pay her 83 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: back for the kindness that she showed me because she 84 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 1: really didn't have to. But yeah, I think I'm a 85 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 1: summation of the love that they poured into me and 86 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: the potential that they saw, and I just can't wait 87 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:26,359 Speaker 1: to like pass that forward eventually. 88 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 4: Speaking of love, this show is really kind of exploring 89 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 4: just really what it is. Yeah, Okay you said it 90 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 4: and I snatched it, absolutely no, But like, conversations on 91 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 4: love is something we're trying to explore, and so growing up, 92 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 4: how did your family talk about love and relationships and 93 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 4: what were the expectations of you around that. 94 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess I'm thinking about it and we really didn't. 95 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,600 Speaker 1: There wasn't really a conversation of like, I never had 96 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 1: the talk. I never like, I guess I talked to 97 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: my a little bit about when I had a girlfriend, 98 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: but that was like what should I get her to 99 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 1: ask her for homecoming and that kind of stuff. It 100 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: was never like fundamentals. We never really talked about her 101 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: experience until I got older. 102 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:14,720 Speaker 4: So when you got older, some walls have come down? 103 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 1: Would you say, I don't know if I would say 104 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 1: walls came down. I think things just came up. And 105 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: because I'm older and more mature, I was able to understand, 106 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: like why she might be acting this way, and what 107 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: some of her references are for love too, do. 108 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 4: You want to speak to that at all? Her references 109 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 4: or your references. 110 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: It's actually kind of funny. She used to read these 111 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 1: really dense, tiny books and they always had some like 112 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 1: wistful white woman on a horse with the guy like 113 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:43,840 Speaker 1: leading her through the forest or whatever. Okay, And at 114 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 1: the time I was like, these are weird whatever. I 115 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 1: read a few of them, I was like, this is 116 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: even weirder. Yes, And now that I'm like older, I'm like, 117 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: oh shit, she was reborn. I live, I live. I 118 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: wonder where I got it from. Yes, And it was 119 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 1: like like she I see how she might have been 120 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 1: disappointed with the circumstances that she went through because like 121 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:08,359 Speaker 1: it's even like the books that she read, it was 122 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: so fanciful and large and grand. 123 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 4: And were her circumstances just like being alone? She was 124 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 4: a single mother, is that? 125 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: Yeah? She also my dad was you know, shipped from 126 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 1: a butt. 127 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 4: So it's like case shout to those dads out there. 128 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: I mean he's he's definitely come around, and I'm very 129 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: proud of his work. Okay, but yeah, at the moment, 130 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:25,840 Speaker 1: it was not bueno. 131 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 4: So it was kind of you and your mom against 132 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 4: the world. Are you so like it was? Or was 133 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 4: it you taking care of your mom? 134 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: It was more so that. 135 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 4: Totally makes sense when you moved to Boston and you 136 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 4: moved away from your family, Like did that feel like 137 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 4: relief or did that feel like oh? 138 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 1: Absolutely? I had two options for college. It was either 139 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: go to Boston and spend my life paying back the 140 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: student loan debt, or go to a school in Chicago. 141 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:53,239 Speaker 1: And I chose Boston. 142 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 4: I'm going to go. 143 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:55,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to get out far enough away and 144 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: I was like, there's no way that can surprise me 145 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,720 Speaker 1: with a trip or anything, like they have to let 146 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: me know they're coming. 147 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 4: Totally. 148 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: It takes you know, like two planes to get here, 149 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: Like I will be fine, if anything, I have six 150 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: hours to look get you know what I mean? 151 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 4: Totally? So, yeah, how do you describe your college experience? 152 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: I would say relatively positive. I think the only thing 153 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 1: I struggled with was like personal growth, Like who am I? 154 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: You know? But honestly, I met my best friends on 155 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: this planet there. I feel like I pushed myself. I 156 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: did what I wanted to do going there. I learned 157 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: a bunch. I think it was a relatively positive experience. Yeah, 158 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: there's some you know, there was some bullshit, but you know, 159 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: nevertheless she persisted. 160 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 4: So when did you kind of come out? 161 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: I came out with as bisexual in twenty twenty because 162 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: I was losing my mind in my little shoe box 163 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: of a room back home. 164 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 4: The pandemic sent you over the edge. 165 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: I was like, I can't do this anymore. 166 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 4: Me. 167 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: Well, I knew something was up way before pandemic. 168 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 4: You were in college, I was Yeah. 169 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: Once I got back home because we were sent home 170 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: for the pandemic. I was like, Okay, I don't want 171 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: to keep living like secretly and all this stuff. And 172 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: I came out to like my best friend in the world, 173 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: Shadow Terearan, and I think I download a grind room 174 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: during sophomore year of college and you know, went off 175 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: the deep end. 176 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 4: Yeah I'm healing. 177 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: I'm healing, But like I knew something was up before then. 178 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: And I used to think I was ACE for so 179 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: long just because I didn't want to engage like I wasn't. 180 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: I wasn't a sexual creature for a very long time. 181 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 4: And for the listener's ace a sexual a sexual get your. 182 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: Gay dictionaries, I would say, like to I really, relationships 183 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: were such like a low thing on the priority list. 184 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: It was how do I eat tonight? What clothes I'm 185 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 1: gonna wear? Like, how am I gonna get to point 186 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: A to point B? And it wasn't until probably coming 187 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: out where I was like, Okay, I have time for 188 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: a relationship. 189 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,079 Speaker 4: I have time to like maybe also capacity capacity that 190 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 4: I had the capacity for like something totally romantic. Okay, 191 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 4: so you tell your best friend You're like, I'm by yeah. 192 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 4: Was she like the. 193 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, it wasn't it? Wasn't everybody was right haha, fine, whatever, Okay, 194 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 1: but I got bullied for something that they were right for. 195 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:14,319 Speaker 4: I hate that. 196 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: I just wish I knew too, if. 197 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 4: You guys would have said it a little softer. 198 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 1: That's all I'm saying. Yeah, and then I came out 199 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: as non binary slash trans in maybe a year after that. 200 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 4: Okay, so yeah, so how did that feel? 201 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: I never really resonated with the whole boy thing ever, 202 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: and then, yeah, it was just kind of a natural progression, 203 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: I think, because I think as soon as you start 204 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: to question like sexuality, which usually comes first for people, 205 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: you also start to question gender and how you fit 206 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:47,319 Speaker 1: into it. And I didn't fit into the cars that 207 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:47,959 Speaker 1: were lay it out. 208 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 4: Okay. 209 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, So I went to Chicago right after graduating college, 210 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: and it was just like a great way to like 211 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: ease myself back into like being just an adult, being 212 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:01,199 Speaker 1: on my own, having full autonomy. I also started performing 213 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: in drag. There I'm doing in drag makeup for a while, 214 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: and I think technically my first time in drag was 215 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 1: I was I was Alphaba for my theater design class. 216 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 1: Yes it was god awful, but that was like seventeen, 217 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: so after the pandemic started actually performing drag in Chicago 218 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty. 219 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 4: Two, and so theater was like your first love, like 220 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 4: your first like your first sort of means of performance, Like. 221 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, I got drag. Yeah, there was definitely how I 222 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 1: got into it. But I would say like the first 223 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: thing I loved to do was probably saying, so. 224 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 4: Did drag performance come first? Or did coming out as 225 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 4: trans come first? 226 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: Good question, that's actually a really good question. If I'm 227 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: remembering correctly. I wanted to do drag before I came 228 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: out as not binary. 229 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 4: Okay. 230 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: When I was doing drag, it was the fuckeray of 231 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:53,959 Speaker 1: the gender system and all that kind of stuff really 232 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: did help like illuminate some things that I just wasn't 233 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: comfortable with. And I don't know if you know this, 234 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: but in theater the binary is so prevalent. It felt like, Okay, 235 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: wig off, blah blah blah blah, let's go back to 236 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: being a boy and try to get the leading role. 237 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: And yeah, you know, I have to sing a song 238 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 1: about loving a girl. It's just like it wasn't it 239 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 1: wasn't working totally. So it's nice to like have the 240 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,199 Speaker 1: draft performance side and like it influences my day to 241 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:22,559 Speaker 1: day where I was like, Okay, wait a second, I 242 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: felt really good in this hair, in this makeup, I 243 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: felt really good wearing these clothes. Why am I not 244 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: doing that more? And why am I like trying to 245 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: like be something that I'm not. 246 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 4: I want to talk more about the drag culture in 247 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 4: New York and what that's done for you, and how 248 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 4: they've brought you in. How did you even begin to 249 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 4: approach it? Who encouraged you to perform drag in New 250 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 4: York specifically. 251 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 1: Thankfully, I wasn't starting from zero, which I can imagine 252 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: is really, really, really hard. I think my first gig here, 253 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: I can't quite remember what my first one was, but 254 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: I do remember one of my first ones was my 255 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: friend Cherry booked me to do a cupcake I know Cherry, 256 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: Cherry Veronica Jay. Yeah, she booked me to do a 257 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: cupcake themed show like Cupcake the Wrapper, and I absolutely 258 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: loved you. It was everything yeah, and then I was like, yeah, 259 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: I think I'm doing the right thing, and I felt 260 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,319 Speaker 1: like able to keep going. There's also a weekly competition 261 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:38,839 Speaker 1: at Pieces Bar called drag Wars. I started there as 262 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: well too, and it's just been like if my friend 263 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 1: is doing a comedy show, how open for them or 264 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: like one off gigs for a while. I'm still working 265 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: on getting to like a weekly thing right now? 266 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:49,559 Speaker 4: Okay? Cool? 267 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: God, weekly monthly? 268 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 4: So much work for you? 269 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: Absolutely makeup. 270 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 4: I was watching your make I was watching all your 271 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 4: videos last night, but I was watching your like drag 272 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 4: for Dummies videos, which I was so thankful before, literally, 273 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 4: but I'm like, this is so much worse. 274 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, thankfully that was a pageant. That's a special 275 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 1: kind of thing. I wouldn't do. 276 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 4: You wouldn't go that hard, that that hard? 277 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:14,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, especially because it was all on one night. I 278 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: don't know if I wouldn't. I'm still struggling to know 279 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: if I'm going to do a passion again or not. 280 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 4: Okay, And I think I heard a snippet of this online, 281 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 4: but I wanted to know a little bit about like 282 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 4: collaboration versus competition in Dragon, New York? How does how 283 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 4: does that feel? 284 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: I feel like I have a really hard and this 285 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: is my just my experience. I don't know how other 286 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,199 Speaker 1: drag people feel, but I have a really hard time 287 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 1: accepting that we just have to compete and almost get 288 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: judged in comparison to other people, when what we really 289 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: mean is we need to pay drag queens more. We 290 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: need resources and accessibility for drag queens, drg artists, things, 291 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: drag kings in order to like make art to the 292 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: degree of what someone you know, what the six figure 293 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 1: job could do, you know what I mean. Not a 294 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: lot of people have the luxury of expendable income going 295 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:15,959 Speaker 1: into drag. And I'm telling you, like these booking fees 296 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 1: for like a gig, it's either zero dollars to like 297 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty and even if you do four 298 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: weekly gigs, one hundred and fifty dollars in New York 299 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: City is literally now like you spend, you spend at 300 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: least fifty dollars a week in transit. So it's like 301 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: there's no way that it's sustainable, right, So I always 302 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 1: think that there has to be a different way. I 303 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: don't know what that looks like right now, and I 304 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: don't have the capacity to like build some kind of 305 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: thing that would help mitigate that problem. But yeah, I've 306 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: definitely identified that it makes me anxious to compete. 307 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, no, me too, And I think in New York 308 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 4: competition is in the water kind. 309 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: Of Yeah, it's like it's American too. It's like American 310 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: how it's like we don't operate as a community and 311 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: we don't uplift people. But it's like who do you know? 312 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: And all this like different stuff that's kind of superfluous 313 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: in the grand scheme of things. 314 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 4: Do you have someone who's sort of like walked you 315 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 4: through this process, shown you the ropes or do you 316 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 4: feel like you've kind of just like gotten your way 317 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 4: through kind of just like stomping through on your own, 318 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 4: figuring it out. Has anyone kind of held your hand 319 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 4: through this process? 320 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: There's been like a lot of people along the way. 321 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: I wouldn't say one person did that. I would say 322 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: Cherry helped me out a bunch when I got here. 323 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: My friend Finn in Chicago helped me out a bunch. 324 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 4: What is the draw to New York? You were just 325 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 4: like I need bigger, I need brighter, I need more? 326 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: Or was it it was kind of always the plan 327 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 1: and the only thing I was holding me back was 328 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 1: the money. Like how once I started making my own money, 329 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: thank God, thank you Jesus, I was like, Okay, I 330 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 1: think I'm ready to move to Brooklyn. And I also 331 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: moved here with my best friend on this planet. Okay, Love, 332 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: it was just like I had a support system here. 333 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: I knew I wanted to do theater at a larger 334 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: scale and do drag at a larger scale. And I 335 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: love Chicago, and I honestly probably will go back eventually. 336 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: But okay, I knew that I wanted to try New York, 337 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: and if I kept putting it off, I think I 338 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: would have stayed in Chicago forever. 339 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 4: So right, and it's treating you well. 340 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: Well, well is so hmm? Well, I wouldn't say, well, 341 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: I think I'm finding my way. I am having the 342 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: problem right now where I'm dealing with a lot of rejection, 343 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: a lot of rejection in my career. 344 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 4: I have to say, it's so interesting that you say that, 345 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 4: because as like an outsider and someone watching you, and 346 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 4: I'm sure you feelah the disconnect all the time, like 347 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 4: the way you're perceived and the way your day to 348 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 4: day actually is. 349 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, if you ask anyone in my support system, 350 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 1: I guess they would be able to tell you, like 351 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: what's actually happening. But on social media, whereas I try 352 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: my best to be authentic and like show things, there's 353 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: just like things I can't say or to share of course, 354 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: you know, especially like things that should be private, like 355 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 1: I'm at my transition and things like that. Like there's 356 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: there's a lot of things happening that I just don't 357 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 1: want to or can't post about. 358 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 4: You know, does drag help you express some of that 359 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 4: turmoil in your life? Totally? 360 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,120 Speaker 1: Oh my god, yeah, it's if anything, it's a good 361 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 1: escape for five minutes, you know, totally. I'm actually planning 362 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: on like making some kind of like limited series show 363 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,199 Speaker 1: thing where I ask other transferms who do drag, like 364 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:26,959 Speaker 1: what does that look like? And I wonder what my 365 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: experience compares to others about like escapism with drag high femininity, 366 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: what that looks like and how it helps. 367 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 4: In a day to day How do you think it helps. 368 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:40,400 Speaker 4: I don't know. You're figuring it out. 369 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: I have no clue. Yeah, all I know is that 370 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 1: drag my and my drag name and my name are 371 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: the same. But like I know, my drag persona is 372 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: sometimes either the best version of myself or the most 373 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: honest version of myself. And there's been performances where like 374 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: I almost cry at the end of it because it's like, oh, 375 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:06,199 Speaker 1: that felt so good to like just release almost so, 376 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 1: I think it's for me. I think being a drag 377 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 1: queen who's transfem is about escapism. It's about connecting with 378 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:21,679 Speaker 1: femininity and like affirming myself almost so, I wonder what 379 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: other girls might say. 380 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,880 Speaker 4: There are like two versions of escapism, like a disruptive one, yeah, 381 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 4: like a beautiful I'm. 382 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:33,400 Speaker 1: A huge advocate for like using escapism powerfully and like specifically. Yeah, 383 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: I do think there's moments in times where people should 384 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 1: lock in and like totally don't take your eyes away 385 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: from this, and it's important to like learn about things 386 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 1: that are happening in the world. But I also think 387 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:44,879 Speaker 1: it's time, like there's always a time for you to 388 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: like take care of yourself. Yeah, imagine if you were 389 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:50,159 Speaker 1: a vampire getting railed in the back of a Toyota 390 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 1: campraingn know like that. 391 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 4: Yeah you know what I mean, I do know what 392 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:57,159 Speaker 4: you mean. Let yourself disconnect for a second. Yeah, you 393 00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 4: said you're in a rough patch. But what has been 394 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 4: the high light so far of your drag career. 395 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: I would say opening for Bob was probably like, Okay, 396 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 1: I'm doing something right. 397 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 4: Bob the drag Queen yeah, can you walk me through 398 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 4: that night? That moment. 399 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,120 Speaker 1: Well, I knew that Bob was going on tour, and 400 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:17,640 Speaker 1: I DMed her asking if I could open for her 401 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: in New York. She already had openers in New York, 402 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: but she asked if I could do like the second 403 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 1: to last show in La Huh. 404 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 4: So I was like, oh, so you sent a DM. 405 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean clothes mouse, don't give fed And I 406 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: love that. 407 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 4: She called you the future of drag. 408 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 3: Anna and I is the future of drag. I've watched 409 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 3: them grow on this app. The self marketing amazing, the 410 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:46,160 Speaker 3: looks great, the creativity, unafraid, unapologetic, mark my words. Once 411 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:47,399 Speaker 3: An and I had come to the top of the 412 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,360 Speaker 3: ranks of the drag world. Just remember that I told 413 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 3: you that. 414 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:52,439 Speaker 4: How did that make you feel? 415 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: She is like one of my favorite people ever on 416 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: this planet? And like having that sign off? Oh god, yeah, 417 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 1: I was a that's for like weeks so honored. 418 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:06,919 Speaker 4: Yeah, all it takes is a DM sometimes sometimes thankfully 419 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 4: we are already mutually connected. It was like, okay, okay, yeah, 420 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 4: thank you so much for clarifying that, because I was like, Wow, 421 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 4: I think people underestimate the power of a DM though. 422 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, my thing was especially after that moment, 423 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, I just need to be a 424 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:23,400 Speaker 1: little more assertive. 425 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 4: Total. 426 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 1: I mean, the worst thing she could have said was no, 427 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 1: And I would say another one of my highlights is 428 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: the pageant I just did last week, because the thing is, 429 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 1: I'm only in competition with myself, like I want to 430 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,119 Speaker 1: impress myself and I did absolutely that and I'm so 431 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,439 Speaker 1: proud of myself. So honestly, it's like, how do I 432 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 1: keep like topping myself myself. It's hard to do, but 433 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:48,359 Speaker 1: goddamn it. 434 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,479 Speaker 4: Someone about it. That is the future. 435 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. So I'm just like, I'm of a mind where 436 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: I want to keep pushing myself and keep impressing myself. 437 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 1: And I don't know if that looks like drag race, 438 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: which would be cool, but again, the whole competition thing 439 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: it makes me anxious. But I also think the show 440 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: shifted from competition to like reality TV, where I don't 441 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 1: know if I want to do that. All I know 442 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: is that I have a lot of dreams and I 443 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 1: want more and more and more and more, and I 444 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:22,439 Speaker 1: can't wait to get it. 445 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 4: I feel like people talk a lot about chosen families, 446 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 4: when it comes to drag Yeah, can you walk me 447 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 4: through that a little. Do you have a chosen family? 448 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:45,639 Speaker 4: Are those just your besties? 449 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: Is that sure? I'm not in a drag house technically. 450 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:51,400 Speaker 4: Can you describe a drag house a drag house? 451 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 1: I think a house stemmed from ballroom culture in the 452 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 1: eighties nineties and drag formers and drag mothers and drag 453 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: king drag fathers are people who do the same thing 454 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,639 Speaker 1: like a house mother would. They take people under their wing, 455 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 1: coach them, give them advice. Sometimes if it's like a 456 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 1: dire situation, sometimes they'll live with them, like things like that. 457 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:19,640 Speaker 1: It's a very it's like a found family kind of thing. Like, Yeah, 458 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,640 Speaker 1: if you're starting out and you show potential and there's 459 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 1: someone who might be older or like have more experience 460 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 1: than you, and they take you under their wings. 461 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 4: That's all it is, tot and so you kind of 462 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:32,640 Speaker 4: feel like there's someone in your life you're under their wing. 463 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:33,160 Speaker 4: Right now? 464 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 1: No, not right now. I don't have like a drag house, 465 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,120 Speaker 1: but me and my support system here in New York 466 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,399 Speaker 1: we call ourselves the House of Fantasy. It's really fun. 467 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: I am so endlessly proud of each one of us, 468 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,120 Speaker 1: and it feels like we have each other's back. Like 469 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 1: my sister she's just got top surgery and she's just 470 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:56,919 Speaker 1: staying with me for a week, and it's nice to 471 00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 1: know that we can take care of each other. Of course, 472 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: it's just like it makes New York a little easier 473 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: to breathe in, honestly, just knowing that there's five, six, seven, 474 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 1: ten people who are like, I'm rooting for you, and 475 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 1: I'm rooting for them. 476 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 4: Justice of course you need it. Yeah, it's so necessary. 477 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 4: Were they at your competition? They were there? Yeah, we did. 478 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 4: They help you with that outfit and the makeup and everything. 479 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: Oh my god, it team man and I was literally 480 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: everybody you can think of it. It's like I can't. 481 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,119 Speaker 1: There's no way to do that kind of like drag 482 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: without health, there's no way. Specifically, I was doing a 483 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,440 Speaker 1: Beyonce impersonation and I had this idea to like make 484 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,359 Speaker 1: a denim veil tarp kind of thing, and I was 485 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,200 Speaker 1: going to Riindstone, Texas, hold them on it and I 486 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: and I made the tart myself, like cut up drifted 487 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: jeans and like sewed it and glued it onto this 488 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,680 Speaker 1: like sheet and stand and it was time to rhine 489 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 1: zone and I said, oh no, I can't. I can't 490 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: do it because it was at least like five thousand 491 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 1: rhinestones worth of just like, I couldn't. I was gonna 492 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: lose my mind, and I asked for help. And it 493 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,360 Speaker 1: was like three days of like rhyanstone in the house 494 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,919 Speaker 1: down boots and it was crazy. It was crazy, and 495 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: that's true friendship, that's true community. I literally could never 496 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: repay them. I mean it was like a pizza and night, 497 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,199 Speaker 1: you know. I was like, I can't, guys, thank you 498 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: so much. 499 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm like, this community sounds so supportive growing up, Like, 500 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 4: do you think this was the type of community you 501 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 4: longed for or do you think you had it in 502 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 4: a different way. 503 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 1: This is exactly kind of what I needed. I feel 504 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: so whole like now that I'm a part of that 505 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 1: kind of family, especially because the family dynamic growing up 506 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,360 Speaker 1: was nothing to the degree of what I have now. Thankfully, 507 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: me and my siblings are trying to like rekindle and 508 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 1: like work things out and like salvage what we can 509 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: while we're still here. 510 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 4: Me and my siblings are all pretty estranged as well. Wow, No, 511 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 4: it sucks, it really sucks really bad. 512 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 1: A huge part of it too, is like it's not 513 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 1: your fault, no, totally do Like, at a certain point 514 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: you just have to blame the parents. 515 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 4: Because and it's like I know, y'll try your best, 516 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 4: you know, so I respect that. I do want to 517 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 4: know where that tension comes from for y'all. For us, 518 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,399 Speaker 4: we're all in different spaces politically, sure, but what's keeping 519 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 4: you disconnected now in adulthood? 520 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: Well, we're I don't know what the right way to 521 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 1: say this is. We're a mixed family. I have two 522 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: half siblings, My full siblings and I are all ten 523 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 1: years apart. Right, tension there just because we like we'd 524 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: have different references. They like have an entire like like 525 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,160 Speaker 1: two pages worth of movies that I need to watch. 526 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,679 Speaker 1: Apparently I was like, okay, but have you ever seen 527 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: like SpongeBob? I don't know, Like have you ever seen 528 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,439 Speaker 1: I don't know? Anyway, Yeah, so there's some tension there 529 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: with my half siblings. They both have different moms too, 530 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: so there's three mothers in this sibling situation. So there's 531 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 1: just like me and my sister, she lives in Arkansas. 532 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 1: We grew up apart, me and my younger brother. We 533 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: grew up apart, and then I kind of grew up 534 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 1: apart from my full siblings too, because when I was 535 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: cognizant of the world, she was going to college, you know. 536 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 1: So Yeah, it's just like wrong place, wrong time. Our 537 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 1: parents weren't very capable. Yeah, it's just like things like that. 538 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: But we're working on it. I'm very proud of us. 539 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 1: Every single day is like we make the conscious effort 540 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 1: to like try to make something shake. 541 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 4: All you can do is make the effort absolutely. And 542 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 4: how do they feel about you doing drag? I think good. 543 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 1: I think good. I hope they would. Yeah, I mean 544 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: we don't really, they don't really get us, sir. I 545 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 1: my my sister Anna, she is so hands on in 546 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 1: like a part of it where it's just it's really 547 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: really nice. My older sister Angie, she came around. It's 548 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: really nice to have her there too. I don't think 549 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 1: they've seen me in drag that like in person. I 550 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 1: don't think they've came. Maybe I made that up. I 551 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: don't know. 552 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 4: Is that something you kind of long for or do not? Yeah? 553 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:04,399 Speaker 1: Again, family like family for me is a completely different beast. 554 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 1: Like on Drag raceyd A makeover episode with their mom 555 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 1: and dads like coming to like get put in their 556 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,880 Speaker 1: drag by their kids. I don't think that could ever 557 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,399 Speaker 1: happen for me. So it's like I just have to 558 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: like consider how other people might have different references for 559 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,360 Speaker 1: how a family should look or what their family does. 560 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: So whenever the schedule is a line, yeah, I would 561 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:26,680 Speaker 1: love for them to come see me and drag. 562 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 4: You keep talking about how you have such a great 563 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 4: support system of friends, but how independent would you say 564 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 4: you are? 565 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,440 Speaker 1: Like very much, So it's a huge problem that keeps 566 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 1: coming out. I think there was no other way for 567 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 1: me to like make it through totally. Yes I did. 568 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,159 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm a very specific person. I know what 569 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,159 Speaker 1: I want, and I think one of the things I 570 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: like about myself my therapist might say, hey, maybe we 571 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: should work on that, is that I know that I'm 572 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 1: able to give myself exactly what I need when I 573 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 1: need it. So, yeah, I'm always trying to ask for help. 574 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: And I did ask for help a bunch for the 575 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: drag pageant. That's amazing, But like, yeah, I'm usually self sufficient. 576 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 4: I want to talk a little bit about the word boysover. Okay, Yeah, 577 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,879 Speaker 4: it's a lot about knowing yourself. You talked about escapism. 578 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 4: I had a problem with escapism, but I wouldn't say 579 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 4: in like the best way. I would say in the 580 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 4: chaotic way. So that's what made me sort of have 581 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 4: to like take a step back and realign. Have you 582 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 4: ever thought about doing the same thing, sort of going 583 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 4: boys sober or like what is your relationship to the 584 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 4: term itself? 585 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: Yeah? I think I kind of fell off the deep 586 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 1: end to during college when I first started exploring sexuality 587 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: and like dating and stuff, I had huge self esteem issues, 588 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: especially like with the whole hookup culture with like gay 589 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: men and stuff. I was like, Okay, maybe you know 590 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: I am a little farther away from what these guys 591 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: got going on. I think I knew something had to 592 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: shake when I went on this date with a person. 593 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: They took me to some like fuck ass dive bar 594 00:28:58,160 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: or something, and then we went back to my place 595 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: and we hooked up whatever I remember they were. We 596 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 1: were shirtless or whatever, and they like looked at my 597 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 1: stretch marks and they're like, are you hurting yourself? I said, oh, 598 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 1: oh shit, Okay. That's the moment where I was like, no, 599 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: I gotta I really gotta lock in because not only 600 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 1: as was this person dumb at shit, I had to 601 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: be on the receiving end of that. I was like, no, 602 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 1: these are just stretch marks, this is my body. Also, 603 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: I wasn't having a good time, so then I was 604 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 1: like why am I doing this? And I think that 605 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: kind of started the whole like decentering men specifically thing 606 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: and decentering like romance, where I was like, Okay, I 607 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: had all of these presconceived notions from like fan fiction 608 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 1: and romance novels and like movies and stuff of like 609 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 1: this is how romance should be, and like even like 610 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: the raunchy stuff like getting taken back home after a bar, 611 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 1: like I always thought it was supposed to go like 612 00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 1: a different way, And in that moment, I was like, 613 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 1: oh no, fuck this shit, like I'll never put myself 614 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: in this position again where I am offended by some 615 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: random person I never want to see again. So I 616 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 1: think after that I was very specific with who I 617 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: wanted to like be around and like who got to 618 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 1: like touch and like see my body and stuff like that. 619 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: So when I hear like boysover, I'm like, okay, I 620 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 1: know that I need to be very specific and intentional 621 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: about like who gets a piece of fano? I? You 622 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 1: know what I mean. Yeah, I'm dating my boyfriend right 623 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: now and it's been great because he's so respectful of 624 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 1: my body and very sensitive to like my experiences. But literally, 625 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 1: right before that, I was like in a zone where 626 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: I was like tired of dating and like I kind 627 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: of wanted to just be like alone and like explore 628 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 1: what it needs to be, just like not reliant on 629 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: rapid hookups and stuff like that. So it was nice 630 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 1: when he came around and I was like, Okay, I'm 631 00:30:58,080 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: pretty excited about this. Yeah. 632 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 4: Does love feel like to you? Now? Like? How do 633 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 4: you define that? How do you How do you think love? 634 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: To me? Feels like wanting to wake up, like wanting 635 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 1: to go about your day. It feels like warm and 636 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 1: fuzzies in your stomach, And like, I think I express 637 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: a lot of love through laughter. So yeah, I would 638 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 1: say love laughter connection in the sense of whether it 639 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 1: be sensuality or friendship, I don't know, having the same goals, 640 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 1: being reliable. I think that's what love looks like and 641 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: feels like to me. 642 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 4: And where are you finding love the most right now? 643 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: Honestly? And I'm really proud of myself. I would say 644 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: from myself right now, which has been. 645 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 2: A long joby, I'm like, I don't know, Johnny Honey, sure, 646 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 2: but yeah, i feel like I love myself so much 647 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 2: and I'm very excited to see what happens and where 648 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 2: I take myself. 649 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: I'm very happy that I'm to a point where, no 650 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 1: matter what happens, no matter what Hay comm and I 651 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 1: get or what TikTok gets reposted on Twitter, I still 652 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 1: love myself at the end of the day. 653 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 4: What would you say to someone who's, like maybe in 654 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 4: high school going through it, Like, I don't know, what 655 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 4: is your advice to someone who would maybe want to 656 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 4: follow in your shoes? I feel like there are probably 657 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 4: so many people that you do inspire that's crazy to think, 658 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 4: you know, like that's just true. 659 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 1: I guess I would say, like, if need be hunger down, 660 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 1: be safe, survive like it does get better, and just 661 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: hold out rely on the people who are showing you 662 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: that they're there for you. I think that's exactly what 663 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 1: Anna and I would have needed. 664 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 4: Loving and caring for yourself is tricky business. I feel 665 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 4: like I've learned from an Andaya how to get one 666 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 4: step closer to it, and I hope you feel that 667 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 4: way too. Thanks for listening. Talk to y'all next week. 668 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 4: Boy Sover is a production of iHeart Podcasts. I'm your host, 669 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 4: Hope Ordered. Our executive producers are Christina Everett and Julie Pinero. 670 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 4: Our supervising producer is Emily Meronoff engineering by Bahid Fraser 671 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 4: and mixing and mastering by Aboo Zafar. If you liked 672 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 4: this episode, please tell a friend and don't forget to rate, review, 673 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 4: and subscribe to boy sob on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 674 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 4: and wherever you get your favorite shows.