WEBVTT - #293 Jason Flom with Robert McClendon 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:05.880 On April twenty fifth, nineteen ninety, Robert McLendon saw his 0:00:05.960 --> 0:00:08.720 biological daughter for the first time in five years, just 0:00:08.800 --> 0:00:12.879 walking down the street. They stopped and spoke. Later on 0:00:12.920 --> 0:00:16.720 that same day, the ten year old girl was allegedly abducted, blindfolded, 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:20.360 driven to an abandoned house, and raped. According to the victim, 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.200 she was later able to escape from the assailant's car 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:26.480 when he had stopped at a convenience store. The following day, 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:29.440 the victim's mother noticed that she was acting and walking strangely. 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:32.839 When asked, the victim alleged that her father, Robert McClendon, 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:35.599 had attacked her. She was taken to the hospital where 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:39.120 a rape kit was performed. Seamen was not detected, so 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:42.599 for now no DNA testing was done, but her underwear 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:46.000 would later become a key piece of evidence. According to 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:48.840 a polygraph examiner, the final test of five that were 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:51.680 done was ruled to be inconclusive and could have been 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:56.360 quote a deliberate attempt at deception. With this dubious result 0:00:56.360 --> 0:00:58.960 and the testimony of the ten year old victim, Robert 0:00:59.000 --> 0:01:03.080 was ultimately confined. Nearly two decades passed while Roberts are 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:05.399 fifteen to life for the kidnapping and rape of his 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:09.640 biological daughter, before advances in DNA testing made it possible 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:12.800 to develop a mail profile from the victims underwear, the 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:16.840 Ohio Innocence Project, the Columbus Dispatch, and eventually the prosecutor's 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:21.959 office worked diligently to ascertain the truth. This is wrongful conviction. 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:36.520 Welcome back to wrongful Conviction this episode. There's a lot 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:38.479 of things in this case that are typical the state 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:41.560 that had happened in Ohio, the crime that was committed. 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:47.240 But there's a twist in this case. It's you're just 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:49.440 going to be scratching your head like I am, because 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:55.400 it's crazy. And to tell this story, we have Jennifer 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:58.360 Berger on and name you'll recognize. She is a professor 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:01.560 of clinical law and the director of operations at the 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:04.720 Ohiolo discens Project. And actually, this, Jennifer, this was your 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:07.720 first case, right, it sure was, so I'm sure this 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:10.720 is going to be exciting for you, and of course 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:14.959 the man himself who lived through this nightmare, Robert McClendon. Robert, 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:19.360 I had the pleasure of meeting you, yes recently, and listen, 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:22.520 I'm sorry for what you went through. But I'm so 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:25.440 glad that you're here to share your story. 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:27.160 Thank you, and I'm really glad to be here. 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:30.800 So before we even get into the actual crime itself, 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:34.160 which is a horrific crime. Yes, sir, what was your 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:35.080 life like growing up? 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:38.840 Well, I want to say it was a normal life. 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:41.760 I didn't have a traditional mom. I come from a 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:45.160 family of alcoholic drug apies, but my mom tried the 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:48.440 best so she could raising three boys. We're kind of 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:51.799 like stairstap kids, and me and my mother we had 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:55.240 a lot of disagreements because I've never smoked rick or 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:58.040 these drugs, and because I will speak up to my 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:00.679 mom and asked her, why don't you cook like other 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:03.200 moms and things like that, So my mother would get 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:06.120 on me and she would whoop me in. So I 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:07.640 went on the left and I was stayed with my 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:12.040 live with my aunt Martha, who basically raised me from 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:13.079 a teenager. 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:14.640 All the way up. But I was very good at school, 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:16.120 made good grades in school. 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:20.080 So you still managed to perform well in school despite 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:22.800 everything else. And then I understand you had three daughters 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:25.720 by three different mothers. Not too long after high school. 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:29.640 There was Robin Nicole and then your youngest ended up 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:31.240 being the victim in this case. But before we get 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:32.960 into what happened to her, can you talk a little 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:33.920 bit about your kids. 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:37.480 Yeah, I was young and I was there Robin and 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:40.280 the cold Life. I didn't really get to know the 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:45.280 victim in this case because me and her mom it 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:47.120 broke up and I hadn't seen her since she was 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:49.960 five years old up until the time, and I saw 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:52.080 her when she was ten years old. The mom kept 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:54.320 me away from her, and that's just how it was. 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:57.960 But there was a time before the mother ever became pregnant, 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:00.400 before your relationship had gone south. Right. 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:03.360 Yeah, I had my own apartment, but I was found 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:06.240 myself staying over there a lot with her, and she 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:11.520 had two kids, two boys, and we were seeing each 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:14.680 other and she, you know, she became pregnant. 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:17.680 And at some point during that pregnancy, she decided that 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:20.400 she didn't want you in your daughter's life. And at 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:22.720 that time, you were already helping to support your other 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:24.960 two daughters while working for the Columbus Parks in a 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:25.960 recreation department. 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:27.800 Yeah, City of Columbus, But. 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:31.560 You became a known entity the police with your side hustle, right, 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:34.760 selling drugs to supplement your income. No judgment here. 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:37.320 Back then, that's what you did because the money was 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:40.920 so good, good and fast, and I felt that because 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:43.719 I wasn't using drugs, I was all in and I 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:47.560 did very very well until I got caught. I was 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:50.960 put on probation. I think the judge saw that I 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:53.240 was not a bad person, but when he gave me 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:56.880 that probation, there were certain people back then on the 0:04:56.880 --> 0:04:59.479 police department in the eighties that did not like me 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:02.440 and like other guys that did what I did, and 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:05.480 they made it very difficult for me and other guys. 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:08.839 And there was one officer in particular who played a 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:10.680 pivotal role in your case. 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:16.320 Officer Nardella, that was a detective. He was what you 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:19.240 call a dirty cop. He would arrest guys and take 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:23.120 their money in their drugs, plant drugs, very corrupt. 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:25.640 And he took a very special interest in you, eventually 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:28.520 arresting you while you were on probation, alleging that he 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:31.279 had found drugs in your car. And this was in 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:32.800 the lead up to your trial for the crime that 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:34.040 we're here to discuss today. 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:35.680 But I also want to make a point out that 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:38.600 once I was put on probation, I did not indulge 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:40.200 in selling drugs anymore. 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:44.039 I think that's important, but it wasn't important to Nardella though, 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:46.640 as we so often see, a prior connection to drug 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:48.880 deal and can make someone a target for incarceration by 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:53.000 any means necessary, even though that past does not make 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:56.320 you in any way guilty of another crime like murder 0:05:56.400 --> 0:05:59.840 or in this case, a rape, and especially the rape 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:02.760 of your own daughter. So let's get to the day 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:06.000 of the incident itself. Robert, after the birth of your 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:08.839 youngest biological daughter, you had only seen her twice, once 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:13.200 at age five, and then curiously, you saw her earlier 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:16.640 in the day that this horrendous rape occurred, and it 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:19.360 was April twenty fifth, nineteen ninety. Is that accurate? 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:20.479 That it is accurate? 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:22.640 I was going down Hudson Street, going over to a 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:25.240 lady friend's house, and this young girl came up to 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:28.440 me and said, are you Robert. I think you're my daddy, 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:31.040 she says. She remembered me from the pictures of her 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:33.760 mother had on her metal piece. So I said, well, 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:36.240 tell your mama, said hi, and I asked her how 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:37.920 she was doing in school. She said good, and I said, well, 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:40.440 keep doing good. In school and till your mama said hi. 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:43.680 Two days later, my attorney called me and told me 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:46.040 I needed to turn myself in because I was accused 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:46.919 of raping a child. 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:50.320 And we don't know the exact machinations behind you being 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:52.840 accused of this rape. Perhaps because you had seen her, 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:55.400 maybe there were resentments, maybe her mother had something to 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:57.160 do with the blame being placed, and you were really 0:06:57.160 --> 0:06:59.200 not sure. But we do know for a fact it 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:02.200 was not you. I said it again, it was not you. 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:06.000 And as we go along here, perhaps motivations become more clear. Now, 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:11.360 make no mistake, this little girl absolutely did suffer a 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:14.400 horrible sexual assault that day. According to a statement, It 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:17.360 wasn't until the next day, though, that her mother confronted 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:21.160 her about how she was acting or walking strangely, and 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:24.880 at that point she told her mother that her biological father, you, Robert, 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:28.840 had abducted her from her backyard in Columbus, Ohio, tied 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:30.880 a sock over her eyes, and drove her off to 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:34.800 some abandoned house somewhere where you allegedly raped her on 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:38.760 a couch inside the house, ejaculated on her, and then 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:41.200 drove to a convenience store and she was able to 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:44.280 escape while you were allegedly inside this store. Now, the 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:46.600 victim was taken to a hospital and a rape kit 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:50.160 was performed and no seamen was identified on her underwear 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:53.680 or on vaginal swamps, so no DNA testing was done 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:57.040 as a result. But remember this is nineteen ninety and 0:07:57.280 --> 0:08:01.240 DNA testing approved over time, and this evidence became irrelevant 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:06.200 again later. However, back in nineteen ninety, when asked if 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:10.880 she could identify the attacker, the victim said, quote, I 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:13.160 think it was my dad, but I may be wrong 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:16.520 because my eyes were covered. So at that point, things 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:17.920 were not looking good for Robert. 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:21.160 Well, yes, I mean when we first looked at this case, 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:24.240 it was very perplexing. I mean, Robert has been very 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:27.400 steadfast in his innocence from day one, and you know, 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:29.280 I wanted to believe what he was saying, but I 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:33.000 was also kind of perplexed by why would this young 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:37.720 girl make something up against her own father. It could 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:42.720 have been something manufactured in her own head, maybe completely innocently, 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:45.080 or it could have been something that was planted in 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:47.360 her head by someone from her family. I don't know. 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:51.320 Then things take another tragic turn, right, which is that 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:54.800 you Robert were arrested and charged with kidnapping and rape 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:58.000 of this child. Yes, Robert, take us back to that 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:01.240 awful day when you were arrested, did falsely accused and 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:04.240 in fact charged with this horrendous crime. 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:07.080 My attorney didn't believe it. I thought it was some 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:10.760 type of mistake. I was given a very low bond 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:14.400 of one thousand dollars and was released. 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:17.640 Wait, a thousand dollars bond. That's like what they give 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:20.440 somebody for like riding their bike on the sidewalk. I mean, 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:26.760 this seems really way off for this horrible crime that 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:29.440 we're discussing here. But we're going to come back to 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:33.199 that now. Let's just say for now that it doesn't 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:36.440 seem like your attorney was the only one who didn't 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:38.040 believe these allegations. 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:42.200 This judge, Judge Johnson, what's the same judge that put 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:46.640 me on probation for aggravated trafficking during the time when 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:47.840 they were a war on drugs. 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:50.520 The police apartment would hate it by goods. 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:53.760 Okay, okay. So now you're out awaiting trial and some 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:56.840 people in the police department feel some kind of way 0:09:56.880 --> 0:09:59.840 about that, and that's when Nardella pulled you over. 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:04.200 I had a beautiful red Mercedes that was customized, and 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:05.640 there's a code. 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:08.520 When you are dealing drugs or selling. 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:12.640 Drugs, you never ever do it. When you're driving your 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:16.600 prize car, you don't carry, you don't do anything wrong. 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:19.840 Anybody's selling drugs. When you're driving your show car, you're 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:23.839 not working. There's never nothing wrong. There's no drugs, there's 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:27.600 no illegal activities, no guns or anything in these cars. 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:30.640 Well, that makes sense as a practical matter, because in theory, 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:32.280 they could take the car. 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:36.240 Yeah, I mean, yeah, he arrested me and put drugs 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:39.320 in my car because I was on probation, and he 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:42.000 knew that I would go to jail and not be 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:43.600 able to get out because I was on probation. 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:46.839 So now you're locked up for over a year awaiting trial, 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:50.280 unable to fight the case from the outside, ineligible for bail, 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:53.400 and now I need to go back to how bail 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:56.760 was originally said at one thousand dollars. I mean, if 0:10:56.840 --> 0:10:59.880 they actually believed you to be the kind of sick 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:02.559 bastard that would rape your own ten year old daughter, 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:05.880 that just it doesn't add up. It makes no sense. 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:07.880 Yeah, I agree, What was. 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:10.559 The prosecutor did not want to take this case because 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:13.079 he didn't think he could win. That's why he opted 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:15.520 for me to take a polygraph test, and if I 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:18.280 passed a polygraph test, would not even go to trial, Sir. 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:21.439 And the polygraph test, we know that they're not accurate. 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:25.400 Even if the examiner is a true expert at reading 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:29.440 the results, there's still only approximately seventy percent accurate. So 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:31.680 it's a little better than guessing right. 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:35.520 My attorney gave me a pre polygraph test. I passed 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:40.480 it with flying colors. They gave me four polygraph tests. 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:42.600 We now know that the guy that did the polygraph 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:47.840 test was corrupt. They were looking for a failed result 0:11:48.080 --> 0:11:50.199 and they got what I think was close to it 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:52.680 when it came back inconclusive. 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:59.480 So a State Highway Patrol examiner found, which is again subjective, 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:04.400 that your answers quote unquote, could be a deliberate attempt 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:07.400 at deception. That could apply to any polygraph test. You 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:10.280 could literally be you could have the best polygraph test 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:11.760 in the history of the world. Right they equivalent of 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:15.199 getting eight hundreds on your SATs. You could nail it right, 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:18.680 and they could still go that it could be in them. 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:20.400 I don't know, maybe I don't know, it could be 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:24.120 something looked like you might have tried to say. I mean, 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:27.240 that's a ridiculous I have to laugh because if I don't, 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:28.880 I'm going to cry or I'm going to break something. 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:31.840 You know, yes, sir, oh, okay. So you've got this 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:35.880 polygraphic examiner saying that this could be a deliberate attempt 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:39.920 at deception, which could be something a corrupt polygraphic examiner 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:43.600 would testify to. And then you've got the victim saying 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:46.200 that it was you and you decided to go for 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:47.080 a bench trial. 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:50.280 They chose to go with a bench trial because of 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:53.840 the nature of this crime. It was such a horrendous crime, 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:55.640 and there was going to be testimony from a ten 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:57.480 year old girl. And I think it's very hard for 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:00.559 nu juror to hear the testimony of a ten year 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:03.120 old who went through this and a quit, even if 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:04.120 it's the right thing to do. 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:07.760 My attorney said, a jury would think that if you're 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:10.760 a drug dealer, that you're a child molestor. We opted 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:14.160 for a trial with Judge Johnson because he felt that 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:15.920 Judge Johnson would follow the law. 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:18.480 And that seems like a very rational decision. With the 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:19.480 circumstances as you. 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:22.560 Described, every person knows why they were found guilty. There's 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:26.520 two causes of why I was found guilty, the testimony 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:30.599 of the child and the inconclusive results of the polygraph 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:36.840 test that I believe the prosecutor sold to the judge 0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:40.559 more powerful than what my attorney did. If my attorney 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:44.040 dropped the ball anytime it was with he did not 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:48.040 convince the judge that inconclusive results of the polygraph test 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:50.360 means you did not feel it and you did not 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:50.920 pass it. 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:53.280 Yeah, they gave it to you four times. The probably 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:55.479 would have given it to you forty times. And eventually, 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:58.200 just because of that, you know, I mean, because they 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:00.240 were you know, if you keept passing that, we're going 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:02.280 to keep doing it. And because we know how inaccurate 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:04.760 these things are. Eventually the law of averages says you're 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:07.800 going to either fail one or be inconclusive or whatever 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:11.200 it is. So yeah, I mean this is important because 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:13.520 as anyone in our audience could end up on a 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:16.880 jury at a criminal trial, please be aware that these things, 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:18.960 well he's not even allowed to be introduced as evidence. 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:21.440 That's how that's how inaccurate these things are they're not 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:24.400 even allowed to be introduced as evidence, right. But it's 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:26.160 not like your lawyer did nothing. I mean, he did 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:28.760 present alibi witnesses. I mean, there was a cable guy 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:30.200 who would have no agenda. 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:30.600 I mean. 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:32.960 And then it was your friend Laverne, who you had 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:35.720 been with all that day, and I understand that they 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:37.920 were very rough with her. But like you said, your 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:42.320 lawyer didn't do enough to combat the bogus polygraph evidence. 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:45.120 And of course, what can be said to combat the 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:48.680 tearful words of a ten year old victim. 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:53.200 There's nothing more powerful than a beautiful child on stand 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:55.880 that points a finger at you and say that you 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:59.680 did something. I had family members in the audience, and 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:02.600 they told me that we are your family, we love you. 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:04.880 But if we did not know you, and the way 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:06.800 that girl pointed their finger at you and said you 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:08.480 did it, we would believe it. 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:11.800 Take us back to that moment, that awful, awful moment 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:18.600 when the judge declared you incorrectly declared you guilty of 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:21.000 this rape and kidnapping and sentence you to fifteen years 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:21.760 of life in prison. 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:26.520 I remember Judge Johnson even to this day. He said, 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:29.600 the testimony of the child was powerful. 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:31.880 I believe that you're guilty. 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:36.400 And I shook my head and I said, Judge Johnson, 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:40.720 I did not do this. He shook his head and 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:45.920 he looked down and he said, Son, I think you're guilty. 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:47.360 Never forget it. 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:06.480 When I walked into that sale, it was like I 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:10.720 was being closed out of the whole world, Like the 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:12.640 whole world was over. 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:13.960 No. 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:16.080 Prison is a nice place. I think you have to 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:19.560 be adaptable to it. I adapted to it. I helped 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:22.320 a young guys, gang beggars get their GEDs. I'm very 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:25.440 proud of that. And I did most of my time 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:30.840 at ROSS. In the last year I was transferred to Chillicoty. 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:36.720 And Jennifer, how did Roberts case become the first case 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:39.560 that you ever worked on and how did you end 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:41.760 up prevailing against all odds? 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:45.280 Yeah. So I came here almost fifteen years ago, and 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:49.280 there was a project underway already that the High Winnescence 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:53.240 Project was doing with the Columbus Dispatch newspaper, and the 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:56.200 reporters had realized that prisoners across the state of Ohio 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:59.680 had been asking for post conviction DNA testing in Ohio 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:02.720 and the vast, vast majority of times they asked for testing, 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:05.960 it was just either summarily denied or in a lot 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:09.359 of cases, the judges never even ruled on the applications. 0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:14.240 So they teamed up with us and reviewed the several 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:18.080 hundred cases where individuals had asked for post conviction DNA 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:21.119 testing and had been denied or nothing had happened, and 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:25.560 they ended up choosing thirty cases, and Roberts was one 0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:28.440 of those. There was a whole series of articles in 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:31.359 the Columbus Dispatch that came out in two thousand and 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:35.800 eight called test of Convictions. So the Ohio Innocence Project 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:38.280 and the Ohio Public Defender did a few of the 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:40.959 thirty cases. So I had a handful of those, and 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:44.000 Roberts was one of them. We filed for DNA testing 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:48.160 in I think February of two thousand and eight, and 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:53.120 much to my surprise, the Franklin County Prosecutor's office actually 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:56.600 agreed to do the testing, which, based on the responses 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:59.600 we were getting from others across the state, was shocking. 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:02.320 I always theorized that at the time they did it 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:05.480 because they were so convinced he was guilty that it 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:07.680 would just come back and prove it and that would 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:10.520 be fine, which is fine with me because then it 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:12.719 would show the system worked. I didn't care why they 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:14.800 were deciding to agree. I was just glad they were, 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:17.479 but that was my theory. So as a result of that, 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:21.119 we ended up entering in agreed order to have the 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:25.040 items tested. The rape kit was searched for, but that 0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:29.240 was long since gone. But fortunately they had the victims 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:32.640 underwear still in storage at the prosecutor's office. 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:35.120 When I fouled for DNA testing three times, they said 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:38.199 the underwear was missing or they couldn't find them. But 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:41.760 when the Ohio Innocent Project and the Columbus Patch got involved, 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:43.800 voila the underwear. 0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:46.240 That reminds me of the Allen Newton case in New York, 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:50.080 where for over twenty years they were denying the existence 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:52.560 of the evidence. They said it had been lost, and 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:55.439 when the Innocence Project got involved, they found it in 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:57.600 exactly the place where it was supposed to be and 0:18:57.680 --> 0:18:59.679 a ile with his name on it. And it's like 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:03.160 Jesus Christ, like this sounds like some banana Republic, third 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:05.639 world country type of stuff. And this was New York City. 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:08.160 So it's a miracle. I mean, you know that there 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:11.159 was evidence left to test, and it's a travesty that 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:15.439 there isn't a national standard for the preservation of this 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:18.159 type of evidence that literally turns out to be the 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:22.879 difference between dying in prison, quite possibly, and living life. 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:26.040 Yeah, that was one of the unfortunate discoveries from thirty cases. 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:28.000 There were several where I mean, I can think of 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:30.879 one person in particular where I do believe they're innocent, 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:33.119 but all of the evidence was gone. 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:34.960 And who's that This. 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:37.600 Was for Marion Reynolds, Yes, someone I know. 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:41.199 Yeah, his wasn't the only case, but yeah, there was 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:44.320 just a complete lack of any sort of uniform standards 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:48.680 anywhere across the state. Fortunately, due to legislation that came 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:51.639 into effect. I believe in twenty ten that's changed in 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:55.840 Ohio by statute, although unfortunately I don't think all of 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:59.960 the law enforcement agencies are following it at this point, 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:04.480 but theoretically they should be now maintaining evidence in a 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:07.359 more uniform way. But fortunately for Robert, at least they 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:09.920 had the underwear. It had been looked at way back 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:12.040 at the time of trial, and they had determined that 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:14.639 there wasn't any ceman or sperm on it, which is 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:17.159 partially why I thought they figured either they weren't going 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:18.960 to get any results, or if they did, it would 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:21.639 come back and show Robert. But in any case, they agreed, 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:25.639 which was great, and we wanted to do YSTR testing 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:28.080 on it because at this time that was the best 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:31.560 way to find any male DNA, since we figured most 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:34.200 of the DNA would be from the victim who was female. 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:36.879 And ultimately they agreed to that, so we ended up 0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:39.840 sending it to private lab here in Fairfield that is 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:44.400 certified by the state of Ohio and DDC, the private company, 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:47.280 in cooperation with the Columbus Dispatch, had agreed to do 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:49.720 the testing in all of these cases, all thirty of 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:53.639 them for free, and Robert's happened to be the first one. 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:58.280 The results come back, and sure enough it proves that 0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:01.480