WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 145 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:02.920 Cool media. 0:00:03.480 --> 0:00:05.960 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:05.960 --> 0:00:09.640 you know this is a compilation episode, So every episode 0:00:09.760 --> 0:00:12.879 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:16.720 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:19.239 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:21.160 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:22.919 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.320 --> 0:00:27.560 you can make your own decisions, all right. 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:32.319 This is the last night of the DNC episode or 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:37.120 reporting from our homes now, which is great because I 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:40.839 feel like death. Garrison Davis is here, I'm Sophie Lichterman, 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:42.080 Robert Evans is here. 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:45.080 We more or less survived the DNZ. SOPHI took a 0:00:45.120 --> 0:00:49.560 few hits there at the end. So the DNC is over, 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:53.640 it's wrapped up, it's all finished, Thank goodness. Tiring in 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:56.040 a very different way than the RNC, and I mean 0:00:56.040 --> 0:00:58.400 obviously a very different demographic. And this is something that 0:00:58.440 --> 0:00:59.880 I noticed just as soon as they got to the air, 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:01.880 Like when I got to the gate for the RNC, 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:04.880 it was like, oh, I'm here for the RNC, And 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:07.520 when I got to the gate for the DNC, it 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:09.440 was Oh, this is just a regular airport gate. 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:11.080 This is just normal people. 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:14.280 There's a very broad demographic that you know, pretty fairly 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:17.360 would represent whatever city you happen to come from. And 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:20.679 in calling these people normal, that's not saying they're necessarily 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:24.679 good people, but they're normal people. Sure, they're into politics, 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:27.160 maybe a little bit more than your average person, but 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:29.920 by and large they are kind of regular people and 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:32.679 including shitty in a lot of the ways that regular 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:35.880 people are shitty about politics, whether that be their views 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:41.000 on Palestine, Gaza, queer people. But it's a pretty pretty 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:43.039 normal demographic base. 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:47.080 Yeah, it's the difference between like when something I showed 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:49.600 up at our gate for the RNC, we took off 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:53.639 our masks because the threat at that point was being 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:56.639 on a mask surrounded by Republicans, yes. 0:01:56.680 --> 0:01:59.560 Right, Yeah, it was like the risk to our lives 0:01:59.880 --> 0:02:02.960 was greater than the risk of COVID. 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:05.440 To our lives safe few eyes, Yeah. 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:07.960 Whereas we just kind of treated the flights to and 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:11.720 from the DNC like normal flights, like like you'd handle 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:14.359 the normal precautions just regular people. 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:16.040 Some of that has to do with the fact that 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:18.239 Chicago's like a much larger city. 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:20.639 Yeah, sure, but yes. 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:23.680 But I mean I got into the conversation with a 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:26.240 delegate from Georgia who was sitting right next to me, 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:29.120 you know, young guy, mid twenties. Very clearly everyone on 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:31.640 the plane was going to the DNC, at least for me, 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:34.480 And yeah, I mean you just had like a regular conversation. 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:35.640 Was it little John? 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:38.680 No, no, Sophie, it was not okay, cool? 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:41.359 So if he little John as a senior citizen, now it's. 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:42.360 Little John, thank you so much. 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:44.760 But no, he was this this young, kind of nominally 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:47.600 progressive democrat who is excited. This is I think, I 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:50.680 think his first time going excited to vote for Kamala 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:53.280 and much more excited about her than Joe. He also 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:56.680 just finished his college program to get a criminal justice degree, 0:02:56.720 --> 0:02:59.040 so it's like, yeah, this is this. 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:00.200 Is who the democratic area. 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:05.799 Yeah, random, kind of kind of queer, but definitely sis dude, 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:10.359 like I said, gay dude, bisexual, whatever, but yeah, it's 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:15.400 gonna reform, reform that criminal justice from the inside. Yeah, anyway, 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:17.280 kind of I just wanted to descry about talking with 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:20.120 this kind of those kind of general convention demographics because 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:21.080 that's basically the same. 0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:23.280 It felt well inside the convention as well. 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:26.840 Yes, a lot more. What I will say is a 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:31.519 lot more women who are like middle aged at the 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:36.200 d NC, like that was the overwhelmingly most common demographic 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:39.320 on like at the convention that I noticed. 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:42.920 And probably more racial diversity than a lot of than 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:46.560 a lot of cities probably Honestly, Yeah, I guess that's 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:49.960 a good general sign, but it's not a great sign 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:51.800 just in and of itself, right, I guess it's it's 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:55.280 good for kind of the general future of this country, 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:58.520 but it doesn't it doesn't really affect many of the 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:02.920 biggest problems that were kind of addressing, whether that be 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:06.680 you know, gazo that, whether that be police brutality, whether 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:09.960 that be all all of these other things, LGBTQ issues, 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:13.640 the economy, right, like that does not necessarily equal over 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:16.240 onto any of those, at least at the DNC. But 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:18.800 you know that is that is a general trend that 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:20.320 that that the country is heading towards. 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:20.839 It seems. 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:23.480 So there you go, and my god, was there a 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:24.920 lot of people there was. 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:28.839 There was such an unhinged amount of people, like I 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:30.160 can't even. 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:34.880 It was so much bigger and so much more crowded 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:36.200 than the d r n C. 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:39.320 I set this online when right wingers were trying to 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:41.720 be like there was nobody there, which was like, you're 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:42.919 you're so dumb. 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:45.520 It was vastly more crowded, but like. 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:48.080 At the R and C, most of the time, we 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:50.680 generally had an entire road to ourselves. 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:53.080 Yeah, it was always easy to find seating, super eased 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:54.840 to find a spot to sit any time during the 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:57.800 R and C. Not true for the DNC, very challenging 0:04:57.839 --> 0:04:59.880 to find a seat. And this kind of brings us 0:04:59.880 --> 0:05:02.120 to the last day of the convention, horrible. 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:03.760 The three of us wrap up. 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:08.000 A very nice dinner with mister Vermin supreme lovely, possibly 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:10.400 the most ethical presidential candidate this year. 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:13.240 The only presidential candidate who has been maced with a 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:16.720 member of the cool Zone media team. We can say 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:17.200 that much. 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:19.880 Yeah, so we have a great to dinner with them. 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:24.640 We walked over to the DNC, massive massive lines coming outside, terrible, 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:27.320 and then we get told it's okay, there's a special 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:31.440 press entry, so we bypass all those lines. We are 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:35.520 feeling great, We are feeling like gods, just passing by 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:38.440 hundreds and hundreds of people waiting waiting line to get 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:42.000 in the DNC. It was a very powerful feeling. I've 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:43.360 never felt that empowered before. 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:45.640 Oh Garrison, oh you sweet summer child. 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:46.680 It was wonderful. 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:49.160 It was really a rush that can't be described. 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:51.760 Yeah, I almost didn't want to let you guys know 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:54.600 that the whole venue is at capacity. 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:58.679 So we get up to the door after just breezing through, 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:01.600 going past all of those lines, and we get to 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:02.760 the door and all. 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:03.440 The doors are shut. 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:07.719 Yeah, their secret service at every entrance saying that nobody 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:09.839 can get in because the venue. 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:10.400 Is at capacity. 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:13.960 And the crash, oh my god, the crash that we 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:16.760 had from our high so so bad. 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:20.039 I talked to a couple of police officers outside the 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:24.719 venue who were like, yeah, the fire marshals are here, 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:27.440 like's it was literally I do think that it from 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:29.880 and from everything I've read since, I think their reboarding 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:33.280 was accurate. Yes, Like there were just more people than 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:34.520 were allowed to be in the building. 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:39.400 They definitely let more people in than they should have. Yeah, However, 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:42.960 there was a group of journalists with Garrison and myself 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:45.640 that were waiting to be let in, and there was 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:48.839 like triple the amount of people to journalists that left 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:50.680 in the time that we were standing there, which was 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:53.359 a very long time. And let me just say, the 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:57.120 Secret Service officer really enjoyed telling a bunch of journalists 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:00.479 that we couldn't come in. He was having a g night, 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:01.880 ruining our night. 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:04.680 I mean, there's nothing that makes me happier than making 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:08.520 a journalist miserable. So I actually do feel some solidarity there. 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:10.280 You know, I would love to tell a bunch of 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:11.360 journalists fuck you. 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:14.720 I was certainly skeptical because of just how many people 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:17.200 were getting let out, because I really wanted to see 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:20.000 how full the venue actually was. And after waiting for 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:22.960 nearly for two hours, two hours. 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:24.480 Two hours, two hours, I went home. 0:07:24.520 --> 0:07:26.040 Pablo's speech already started. 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:30.640 I abandoned you, and then some media logistics person from 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:34.680 the Secret Service entrance every five minutes would point at 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:38.040 ten people like they were the chosen ones to let them. 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:39.320 Into the arena. 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:42.520 And on round three or four, Gary and I did, 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:45.040 in fact get in and run up like seven or 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:47.800 eight flights of stairs, which I'm still feeling. 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:49.280 You made the cut. You made the cut. 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:49.880 We did. 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:53.600 I bet Tim Walls whispered your very names into the 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:55.360 ears of that Secret Service agent. 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:58.120 Although I do feel like a piece of me is 0:07:58.120 --> 0:07:59.920 still on those stairs because it was brutal. 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:00.520 It was bad. 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:03.160 And then we got up to kind of the floor 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:06.520 of the arena that we usually entered into and they 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:08.920 were not lying. It was way too full. There was 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:11.520 not a single seat available. People were standing in the 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:14.080 fire exits, people were standing on the stairs and the 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:18.520 hallways inside the actual arena. It was, in fact a 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:19.600 real safety hazard. 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:22.840 Yeah, I do really feel the need to emphasize not 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:24.960 one of those things where the cops were fucking over 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:27.720 the press or whatever for their own It was a 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:28.920 serious issue. 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:32.400 No, we saw, We saw firefighters inspecting the hallways and 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:35.720 letting a whole bunch of fire code violations fly. Yeah, 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:37.600 we were not supposed to be standing in the middle 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:42.080 of tent stairwell. And yeah, we got inside just in 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:49.240 time for the foreign policy, border patrol, and geopolitics section 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:52.600 of Kamalis's speech. And we will talk about her speech, 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:55.600 including those aspects, right after we come back from this 0:08:55.720 --> 0:08:56.280 ad break. 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:07.320 All right. 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:11.080 The final speech of the DNC arguably the most important one, 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:13.360 Although the DNC just went on for so long that 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:16.480 I was so checked out by that last day. 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:21.240 Honestly, it was just Bill Clinton's nine hour speech where 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:23.440 he just was just the oldest man who's ever lived. 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:26.320 No, he's convinced me. You know, I watched last night 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:30.760 several episodes of the show about him committing a sex 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:35.040 crime as the president, and it really reminded me. Boy 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:36.520 slick Willy's gotten old. 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:39.320 Yeah, thank you for music. My dad's nickname for Bill 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:40.600 Clinton on Mike Click Willy. 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:42.959 That's every dad's nickname for Bill Clinton. 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:48.560 My dad loves to call him that. Anyways, Garrison, we 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:51.360 got up there. We are standing in a crowd of 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:54.640 journalists just trying to get a glimpse of what's going on. 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:57.760 And is there any particular part of the speech you 0:09:57.800 --> 0:09:59.440 want to talk about, because there's a few things that 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:00.320 come to mind for me. 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:03.200 I mean, yeah, I have notes on like the whole speech, 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:05.800 just you know, a few lines from each little section. 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:09.080 And I think this speech was more important than most 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:12.040 of Trump's speeches, because we've heard Trump speak, you know, 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:12.959 a bajillion times. 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:13.080 Now. 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:15.640 I will say Trump's R and C speech was important 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:19.200 because this was his first speech after getting shot at 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:23.319 in the head. And similarly, I think this speech for 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:26.320 Kamlo was extremely important because this is basically her second 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:29.480 presidential speech. The speech she's been using for her campaign 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:32.080 trail has been the same stump speech for the past month. 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:34.800 It's been the same one delivered many times, which is 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:37.120 not a regular But this is the first time we've 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:40.520 really heard her do a new speech, and this is 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:44.280 her introduction as a presidential candidate to the entire world. 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:46.880 As she took the stage, there's obviously tons of cheers 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:51.320 chants of usay. She opened by praising Biden's record and 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:54.680 his character, saying that that history will will prove him 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:57.920 to have such a great record and character. And then 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:01.320 she framed her own personal story as like a template 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:04.400 of like the American journey, right, saying, quote, I'm no 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:06.600 stranger to unlikely journeys unquote. 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:06.920 Okay. 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:09.720 She talked about her mother as an immigrant, saying her 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:12.040 parents met at a civil rights gathering and then her 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:15.160 dad taught her to be fearless, although her dad also, 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:16.960 I guess probably failed to teach her how to be 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:20.000 a good Marxist, but she did not bring that part 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:20.880 up in this speech. 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:24.720 Complicated relationship, but we all get to have one. 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:28.640 Yes, But her parents taught her and her sister about, 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:32.160 you know, different different civil rights leaders, including civil rights 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:35.960 lawyers that fought civil rights in court, and Kamala said, 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:37.680 this is what inspired her to go to law school. 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:40.840 Although you know, very famously, she did not become like 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:42.080 a civil rights lawyer. 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:43.480 She became a prosecutor. 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:45.840 And Kamala said that this was inspired by her high 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:49.880 school best friend getting molested by her stepfather and that's 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:53.800 what got her to want to go down the prosecutor path. 0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:56.320 That was the first time that I had ever heard 0:11:56.360 --> 0:11:57.600 her talk about that. 0:11:57.880 --> 0:11:59.000 Yeah, I hadn't heard that either. 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:01.840 She literally did a few other times, obviously not on 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:02.880 that large of a stage. 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:05.880 Yes, no, No, There was a lot of talk about that, 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:09.880 and a lot of talk about her focus on like 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:14.920 familial sexual abuse, molestation and other sex crimes as a prosecutor, 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:18.280 like basically framing that as like her specialty, and that 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:21.120 was a good part of what she focused on, which 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:22.319 he was a courtan prosecutor. 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:23.400 The line that she. 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:25.600 Used to refer to her work in the court was 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:28.800 that quote, everyone has a right to safety, dignity, and justice. 0:12:29.360 --> 0:12:31.720 So that was kind of the introduction to Kamala and 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:34.480 her background. That was like who she was, where she 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:37.640 came from. And then the speech pivoted to talking about 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:41.440 orange Man Bad, which worked very well in twenty twenty, 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:43.120 and I think we're going to see more of that. 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:44.960 The closer we get to the election. 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:46.679 One way or the other is the last time you're 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:48.480 gonna get to make hay out of it, and so 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:50.440 you might as well do that while the sunshine. 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:53.920 Yes, honestly, that was the general theme of the DNC 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:57.280 speeches for me, was like orange. 0:12:56.880 --> 0:12:59.160 Man bad, we got one last shot. 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:02.920 We can be good for you, be good with us, 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:05.000 We're good orange Man back. 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:09.080 It's even less that they want to be elected to 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:13.000 make any actual progressive change. It's that in order to 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:15.280 do that in the future, we first need to beat 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:19.200 Donald Trump. And that was kind of the guiding the 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:22.280 guiding principle of most of the DNC and commalist speech. 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:25.520 She called this election a fight for America's future. 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:29.480 It's infuriating that, like we deal with this again right 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:32.000 where we have to like sit down and knock the 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:36.280 Republicans out and end a chunk of the conservative ideology 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:39.760 in this country because literally nothing can progress without doing that, 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:44.360 and we still can't handle the more fundamental problems. But 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:47.240 you know, that's the way it is. 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:49.800 Yeah, And she talked a lot about voting rights, saying 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:51.800 that Trump tried to throw away your vote and when 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:53.880 that didn't work, he directed an armed mob to the 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:57.120 capital to overthrow the election. She talked about how Trump 0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:00.600 wants to deploy the military against protests, although she said 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:04.160 he wanted to play the military against quote our own citizens, 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:06.600 but this was in reference to him wanting to deploy 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:10.040 the military against protests. And she framed the Supreme Court's 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:12.920 new ruling to give president's immunity in court from criminal 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:17.720 prosecution as imagining Trump but now without any guard rails, 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:21.320 which of course is very scary. And part of this 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:24.360 is Project twenty twenty five again trying to reiterate this 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:27.400 as the Republican's playbook in case Trump is able to 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:30.920 get back into office. Mentions of Project twenty twenty five 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:33.520 starting a series of we are not going back chance, 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:35.680 which I think is probably some of the best messaging 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:39.800 the Democrats have the opertion of deploying this go around. 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:42.800 I know there was an upper Democratic strategist who has 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:45.520 been meeting with the Kamala team who said that this 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:48.280 messaging doesn't work because it's too vague and too negative 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:53.480 and not enough focused on the future, and thankfully the Democrats, 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:56.160 or at least Kamala's team, did not listen to that guy, 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:58.640 because that is the most wrong a man has ever been. 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:01.680 This messaging has been played very well in person at 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:05.000 all these rallies, and especially at the DNC. Kama talked 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:07.280 a little bit about economics, saying, quote, we are charting 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:11.000 a future towards a strong and growing middle class unquote, 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:15.320 and quote, we will build an opportunity economy where everyone 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:18.720 has a chance to compete and a chance to succeed unquote, 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:20.040 which I guess is fine. 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:20.480 I don't know. 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:23.000 I have a few kind of issues with this, mainly 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:25.520 like what happens when you don't succeed and what happens 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:27.960 to the lower class. Throughout the entirety of the DNC, 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:30.080 there's been a lot of talk about growing a strong 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:32.600 middle class and a big focus on the middle class, 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:36.280 but very little focused on actually helping the people that 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:40.080 are having it the hardest in this country instead really 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:44.240 really catering to like the middle class voter. And I 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:46.440 don't know, it's it's like there's a lot of talk 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:48.560 about labor. There's a lot talking about like working people, 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:51.040 like workers' rights, that stuff all has a pretty big 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:54.160 spotlight at the DNC this year, but very little mentions 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:57.280 of how we can actually improve life for the lower class. 0:15:57.880 --> 0:15:58.960 She did talk about, you know. 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:02.840 Very vague gestures towards lowering the cost of everyday needs, 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:06.160 but so far she's kind of yet to unveil any 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:09.840 actual solid policies. Really we have that first time home 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:11.720 buyers like twenty five K. 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:15.000 Yeah, she's proposed some details on like how to help 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:18.000 increase the number of first time home buyers and build 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:20.880 an additional like three million homes in the United States, 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:23.640 Like there's been some but it is all kind of 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:24.560 vague at this point. 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:24.720 Now. 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:26.440 One thing that they do have going for them is 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:28.960 when the dim say, like we're going to cut inflation. 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:33.240 You know, we've seen inflation drop from the post pandemic 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:35.400 highs over the last couple of years to the point 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:37.520 where it's at now, so like that is that, you know, 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:40.240 there's a leg to stand on there. And in general, 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:42.520 I actually think one of the better economic points was 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:45.160 made by Clinton during his speech, which is that, like 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:49.120 the vast majority of jobs that have been created over 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:52.520 all of our lifetimes have been created under democratic presidents, 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:54.800 and you know if you can't, if like that's your 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:57.960 voting issue. The polls are also moving in the direction 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:01.920 of that. People seem to be trusting Kamala more on 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:05.879 the economy. Yan, they trusted Biden even though there's not 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:08.920 really a perfectly logical reason to do that. But this 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:11.680 is elections aren't about logic, right, Like. 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:12.520 No, They're about vibes. 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:15.399 They're about vibes in a lot of ways. They're about vibes. 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:18.240 And I do think the dims. I think the dims 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:22.560 have that actually, like the good headwinds on and now 0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:25.080 a lot can change in the next seventy days or so. 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:28.560 What I really saw with this speech and with this 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:32.520 convention as a whole, was the Democratic Party embracing the 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:37.359 middle and some conservatives. And yeah, they tried not to 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:42.720 be too directly abrasive to progressives and the left. 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:43.920 But they weren't catering to them. 0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:45.639 But they were not catering to it. 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:46.159 Yeah. 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:46.600 Yeah. 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:51.240 Kamala did attack Trump on taxes, specifically saying that trumpill 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:53.320 do tax breaks to his billionaire friends, it'll add a 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:56.440 five trillion too the national debt, and she called Trump's 0:17:56.480 --> 0:18:00.399 tariff proposal basically a national sales tax, or a Trump 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:03.440 tax that will raise costs for middle class families by 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:05.439 up to four thousand dollars a year, which is in 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:08.720 line with the whole bunch of economists' predictions if Trump's 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:12.040 tariffs do go through, and then again gesturing to kind 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:17.200 of vague policy ideas without actually proposing strict policies, saying 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:19.919 that quote, we will provide access to capital for entrepreneurs, 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:23.160 small business owners, and founders, warning that Trump will ban 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:26.480 abortion pills and enact in national abortion ban and force 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:29.919 the states to report on people's abortions and miscarriages, and 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:32.600 instead of common will sign into law a bill that 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:36.280 protects abortion access nationally, as well as calling to pass 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:38.720 the John Lewis Voting Rights Act and the Freedom to 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:42.480 Vote Act, and more kind of vague gestures towards protecting 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:44.880 the freedom to love who you love, to have clean 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:48.359 air and clean water, and the freedom that unlocks all others, 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:52.080 the freedom to vote. So that's kind of the most 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:55.919 of the domestic policy section of the speech, and that 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:58.280 is the part of the speech that we missed. And 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:01.400 then we came in right started talking about the border, 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:04.639 saying again that, like many others have talked about the 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:07.919 DNC how the Democrats and Republicans worked together to write 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:11.000 the strongest border bill in decades, and Kamala said that 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:13.920 this bill was endorsed by the Border Patrol which it wasn't. 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:15.720 It was endorsed by the Border Patrol. 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:16.800 Union, but who cares. 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:22.120 And Kamma talked about how Trump called Republicans to kill 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:24.439 the bill so that Democrats couldn't take credit, and she 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:26.840 promised that she will bring back this bill and sign 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:29.920 it into law, saying that, quote, we can create an 0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:32.200 earned pathway to citizenship and. 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:34.040 Secure our border unquote. 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:36.600 So again, this is one of the areas that Democrats 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:38.480 I think have lost the most amount of ground on 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:43.640 the past like eight years, and they are still kind 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:46.600 of willing to seed it. And then in terms of 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:50.080 like geopolitics and foreign policy, one line of kammalist that 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:54.800 has kind of cotton some flak, but also I don't know, 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:56.720 I'll just read it, we can talk about it. She 0:19:56.760 --> 0:19:59.520 said that quote, I will ensure America always has the 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:03.040 strong I guess to most lethal fighting force in the world. 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:06.119 Yeah, so did you guys, what did you think by 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:07.440 the use of that language. 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:13.919 I think she was trying to appeal to the voters 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:17.160 that don't think a woman can lead. 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:19.520 That's the end of my sentence. 0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:20.480 Agreed. 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:22.720 Oh interesting, I feel very differently. 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:25.960 I found this as being a reaction to right wing 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:30.239 and centrist attacks kind of questioning her strength as a leader. Yea, 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:33.320 So she went for very very like intense language on this. 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:36.280 So I feel very differently about that. And I think 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:37.880 this may be just due to the fact that I've 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:41.000 kind of some more experience with how people in the 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:46.000 NATSK space speak, because the phrasing that she used, it's 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:48.200 been lampooned a lot online. We've all had a couple 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:51.880 of some bits about, you know, talking about I don't 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:54.240 want a lethal the most lethal military in the world. 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:56.280 I want this or that, but like that's what the 0:20:56.280 --> 0:21:03.120 military does. No, no, Well, lethality is also a meme term, right, 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:06.560 Like that's the way it is used in this space. 0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:09.760 Like if you go to like speeches where people who 0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:13.480 are involved in any level as contractors in the military 0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:17.800 industrial complex making arms working for like, it is all 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:20.960 about when they're talking about like improving efficiency within the 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:24.760 air Force, it's about lethality, right, we are increasing lethality, 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:26.959 Like that is our goal. That's what we're doing here today, 0:21:27.280 --> 0:21:30.280 because that is the measure by which you determine the 0:21:30.320 --> 0:21:34.159 success of the organization. So what I saw Harris as 0:21:34.200 --> 0:21:38.480 doing by using that specific terminology was not I am 0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:41.800 trying to talk extra hard in order to burnish my 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:44.959 credentials because conservatives are going to attack me. It was 0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:50.280 Trump is actually kind of weak on the national security stuff, 0:21:50.400 --> 0:21:54.600 especially within the community of people who are like Natsek 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:57.240 gools Yeah, right, within people who are members who have 0:21:57.600 --> 0:22:00.320 are born and raised members like my family, a lot 0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:03.280 of them, of the military industrial complex, the people who 0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:06.920 have their professions in that space, right, they actually don't 0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:09.520 all like Trump a lot. And some evidence of that 0:22:09.640 --> 0:22:12.679 was recently he made some statements where he essentially insulted 0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:16.880 Medal of Honor recipients that like the VFW came out 0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:20.639 and attacked Trump, which is wild, like absolutely unpaced. 0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:22.119 I do think it's a little bit. 0:22:22.200 --> 0:22:24.080 I definitely agree with you, Robert, but I do think 0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:25.720 it's a little bit of what gar and I were 0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:28.960 talking about as well. An another thing that I'm just 0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:32.560 thinking of, as Robert saying that, is just how often 0:22:32.600 --> 0:22:35.480 Trump has said that, you know, the war, the war 0:22:35.480 --> 0:22:37.639 in Ukraine wouldn't happen if he was in office, that 0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:40.000 like he putn't scared of him and things like that, 0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:42.800 as like one of his main reasons why we should 0:22:42.920 --> 0:22:48.040 re elect him is because he commands authority and nobody 0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:52.920 did anything bad when he was in power. And I 0:22:53.200 --> 0:22:55.680 think a lot of that has to do with Kamala's 0:22:55.760 --> 0:22:56.720 language choice. 0:22:57.080 --> 0:23:00.000 I mean, it's it's she said what she said because 0:23:00.320 --> 0:23:03.200 it was a way of expressing like. 0:23:02.920 --> 0:23:05.440 Like an internal signifier to other people in the NAT 0:23:05.440 --> 0:23:06.000 sock space. 0:23:06.320 --> 0:23:07.600 Yeah, yeah, it was. It was. 0:23:07.720 --> 0:23:09.159 It was a way of saying that I am not 0:23:09.280 --> 0:23:11.040 just I'm not an outsider. 0:23:10.520 --> 0:23:13.240 I am a professional. I understand and speak about this 0:23:13.400 --> 0:23:14.520 the same way that you guys do. 0:23:14.600 --> 0:23:17.359 Yeah yeah, yeah, right, No, I can I can see that. 0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:19.960 You know, the whole speech I kind of saw in 0:23:20.000 --> 0:23:22.480 those terms. It was very much calculated. I could see 0:23:22.680 --> 0:23:25.400 who they were trying to get with that speech. There 0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:28.679 was a bit in there for everybody, uh, and they 0:23:28.680 --> 0:23:30.760 were trying to get kind of those moderate chunks of 0:23:30.800 --> 0:23:33.520 every group, including moderate chunks of the people whose like 0:23:33.560 --> 0:23:37.000 primary issue is gaza, right, because there is a chunk 0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:39.720 of the people who's who are are mostly concerned to 0:23:39.760 --> 0:23:41.480 this election with what the fuck we're going to do 0:23:41.520 --> 0:23:46.320 about Gaza. But also are not you know, hardline communists 0:23:46.960 --> 0:23:50.399 or whatever? You know, are people who like the uncommitted folks, 0:23:50.480 --> 0:23:53.040 really want to embrace the Democratic Party, and are maybe. 0:23:52.880 --> 0:23:55.440 People who still believe in the system want to just. 0:23:55.480 --> 0:23:58.040 Need a little bit of a lie that they can 0:23:58.119 --> 0:24:01.400 go along with to vote right, Like Kamala was attempting 0:24:01.480 --> 0:24:05.399 to kind of give because she didn't announce a substantive 0:24:05.520 --> 0:24:08.760 change in policy. No, her verbiage on Gaza in this 0:24:08.840 --> 0:24:10.720 speech was the same as the kind of stuff that 0:24:10.800 --> 0:24:13.160 like Obama was saying, honestly, like ten years ago. 0:24:13.520 --> 0:24:16.800 Sure, Gary, do you have a quote of what she said? Yeah, 0:24:16.920 --> 0:24:19.520 let's talk about it. But first let's head to our 0:24:19.560 --> 0:24:20.159 last ad. 0:24:20.040 --> 0:24:20.720 Break real quick. 0:24:29.520 --> 0:24:32.520 All right, let's talk about her closing remarks relating on 0:24:32.560 --> 0:24:35.359 foreign policy and Palestine. I guess there's a few other 0:24:35.480 --> 0:24:38.680 kind of general foreign policy things. Yeah, saying that under 0:24:38.720 --> 0:24:41.040 her watch, quote, we will lead the world into the 0:24:41.080 --> 0:24:44.920 future on space and artificial intelligence, America, not China will 0:24:44.960 --> 0:24:48.199 win the competition for the twenty first century unquote. She 0:24:48.320 --> 0:24:51.359 framed Trump as an ally of Russia and Putin, and 0:24:51.400 --> 0:24:54.000 she claimed that she will help us quote stand strong 0:24:54.080 --> 0:24:58.760 with Ukraine and our NATO allies. And then finally, one 0:24:58.760 --> 0:25:02.840 of the last things she talked about was Israel Palestine, saying, quote, 0:25:02.920 --> 0:25:05.720 President Bien and I are working around the clock. Now 0:25:05.760 --> 0:25:08.040 is the time to get a hostage deal done and 0:25:08.080 --> 0:25:12.200 a ceasefire deal done. This had a decent sized cheer. 0:25:12.560 --> 0:25:15.080 She followed this up by saying, quote, we will always 0:25:15.200 --> 0:25:18.399 stand for Israel's right to defend itself and ensure Israel 0:25:18.440 --> 0:25:22.240 has the ability to defend itself unquote. And I think 0:25:22.280 --> 0:25:26.000 this signals mostly to people that it's unlikely she will 0:25:26.040 --> 0:25:29.280 adopt anything resembling an arms embargo, And there was a 0:25:29.280 --> 0:25:31.920 lot of internal pressure from the uncommitted folks, people who 0:25:31.920 --> 0:25:35.080 got into the DNC trying to push on this topic, 0:25:35.119 --> 0:25:38.359 specifically because Democrats are now kind of adopted kind of 0:25:38.480 --> 0:25:42.679 vague ceasefire rhetoric. Now, the goalpost does need to be 0:25:42.680 --> 0:25:46.200 shifted towards something that will actually stop the bombing of 0:25:46.520 --> 0:25:50.000 families inside Gaza, and that is an arms embargo, some 0:25:50.119 --> 0:25:53.760 kind of conditions on the way that bombs and weapons 0:25:53.800 --> 0:25:56.160 are going to be used. And I think this line 0:25:56.320 --> 0:25:59.960 signified that that is probably not going to take place, 0:26:00.680 --> 0:26:01.959 at least before the election. 0:26:02.359 --> 0:26:04.320 No, definitely, not before the election. 0:26:04.680 --> 0:26:06.120 Wait, that's very clear at this point. 0:26:06.160 --> 0:26:08.760 And she kind of both sides this issue. Yeah, Her 0:26:08.840 --> 0:26:12.880 last quote was quote, what has happened in Gaza over 0:26:12.920 --> 0:26:17.360 the past ten months is devastating. So many innocent lives lost, desperate, 0:26:17.600 --> 0:26:20.960 hungry people fleeing for safety. Why over and over again, 0:26:21.280 --> 0:26:23.200 the scale of suffering is heartbreaking. 0:26:23.320 --> 0:26:24.600 Whom is making them do this? 0:26:24.680 --> 0:26:26.840 President Biden and I are working to end this war 0:26:27.200 --> 0:26:30.720 such that Israel is secure, the hostages are released, the 0:26:30.800 --> 0:26:35.320 suffering in Gaza ends, and the Palestinian people can realize 0:26:35.359 --> 0:26:39.800 their right to dignity, security, freedom, and self determination. 0:26:40.240 --> 0:26:41.760 Unquote. And this was. 0:26:41.720 --> 0:26:44.200 Followed by what I would call the biggest cheers of 0:26:44.240 --> 0:26:45.000 the entire night. 0:26:45.119 --> 0:26:45.480 Yeah, I was. 0:26:45.960 --> 0:26:49.120 I was about to say the crowd reaction was massive to. 0:26:49.119 --> 0:26:52.400 That people lost it so much, bigger cheers than saying 0:26:52.720 --> 0:26:55.640 we will ensure Israel has the ability to defend itself. 0:26:55.800 --> 0:26:58.880 This closing line about dignity, security, freedom, and self determination 0:26:58.920 --> 0:27:01.880 for the Palestinian people gotten by far the biggest years. 0:27:01.880 --> 0:27:03.520 And but like, what does it mean? Like what are 0:27:03.520 --> 0:27:04.600 you actually saying? 0:27:04.720 --> 0:27:05.600 It means nothing? 0:27:05.760 --> 0:27:08.119 I mean, what all of that means to me? Is 0:27:08.160 --> 0:27:12.840 that like Democrats because they are normal people, they're not Republicans. 0:27:13.440 --> 0:27:15.800 They know how bad all this is. They hate it. 0:27:15.880 --> 0:27:17.280 They are mad at at and Yahoo. 0:27:17.320 --> 0:27:19.720 You only really need to see a couple of war 0:27:19.840 --> 0:27:22.440 crime videos to know that, like what happened is happening 0:27:22.480 --> 0:27:27.280 over there is ghastly. They also aren't willing to like 0:27:27.480 --> 0:27:31.159 nuke their lives and a lot of other people's lives 0:27:31.200 --> 0:27:32.920 to let Trump back in, right. 0:27:32.920 --> 0:27:35.960 And I do believe they genuinely view Israel as an 0:27:35.960 --> 0:27:38.000 extremely important ally in the Middle East. 0:27:38.280 --> 0:27:40.600 Yeah, and they think that this could be fixed, right 0:27:40.680 --> 0:27:43.119 because like we did some awful stuff in Iraq, but 0:27:43.160 --> 0:27:46.080 then we elected Bobama and everything got better, right or 0:27:46.119 --> 0:27:47.159 something like that. Yeah. 0:27:47.280 --> 0:27:49.639 No, I mean like they don't like Netan Yahoo, the 0:27:49.680 --> 0:27:52.560 batting admin doesn't like that Yahoo because he's not efficient 0:27:52.640 --> 0:27:56.240 at war. He's efficient at doing like like an ethnic cleansing, 0:27:56.520 --> 0:27:59.679 he's efficient at doing wide civilian casualties, but he's not 0:27:59.680 --> 0:28:02.520 gonna actually like fighting this war very well. This is 0:28:02.520 --> 0:28:06.280 something that like Biden's team has consistently not been thrilled by, 0:28:06.520 --> 0:28:08.639 but they're not gonna do much about it. Kind of 0:28:08.840 --> 0:28:11.240 the last foreign policy line that she had was quote, 0:28:11.400 --> 0:28:14.040 I will never hesitate to take whatever action is necessary 0:28:14.080 --> 0:28:18.199 to defend our forces and our interests against Iran and 0:28:18.320 --> 0:28:22.240 Iran backed terrorists, and will not cozy up to tyrants 0:28:22.280 --> 0:28:25.399 and dictators like Kim Jong un who are rooting for 0:28:25.520 --> 0:28:30.840 Trump unquote. And I think basically this ties into a 0:28:30.840 --> 0:28:33.320 whole bunch of rhetoric that I've seen throughout the DNC, 0:28:33.480 --> 0:28:36.800 including from speakers, speakers who are either vets or active military, 0:28:37.119 --> 0:28:40.800 that seems to be kind of slowly preparing the Democratic 0:28:40.840 --> 0:28:44.600 Party for another war, for some kind of on the 0:28:44.640 --> 0:28:47.080 ground activity in the Middle East, whether that be in Lebanon, 0:28:47.120 --> 0:28:48.080 whether that be in Iran. 0:28:48.680 --> 0:28:50.520 It's like they're slowly just. 0:28:50.520 --> 0:28:53.360 Prepping us for the possibility of war or invasion. 0:28:53.720 --> 0:28:55.400 Oh, that does seem likely. 0:28:56.000 --> 0:28:58.120 This is a big part of like the Democratic Party's 0:28:58.160 --> 0:29:01.640 official like policy platform on Phalesteine, which they did release 0:29:01.720 --> 0:29:04.000 during the DNC, and a big part of that is 0:29:04.240 --> 0:29:08.000 about is talking about how important Israel is as a 0:29:08.000 --> 0:29:09.160 Middle East ally. 0:29:08.880 --> 0:29:10.960 Where will we fly our planes over. 0:29:10.920 --> 0:29:13.040 If they ever need to put troops on the ground. 0:29:13.520 --> 0:29:15.840 And I think that is so much of why they're 0:29:15.880 --> 0:29:19.040 unwilling to budge on anything resembling like an actual ceasefire 0:29:19.160 --> 0:29:22.280 or an arms embargo. Is because they view this as 0:29:22.360 --> 0:29:26.479 like a real possibility. Anyway, that was that was this speech. 0:29:26.520 --> 0:29:30.040 The balloons dropped. Everyone lost their minds. Yep, it's not 0:29:30.120 --> 0:29:31.960 a cult in the same way. 0:29:31.760 --> 0:29:34.080 But there's there's you can see one building. 0:29:34.120 --> 0:29:35.880 Maybe the party is a cult, but it's not a 0:29:35.960 --> 0:29:38.600 Kamala cult the same way the GOP is now a 0:29:38.640 --> 0:29:41.680 Trump cult, right, like the Republicans are now a Trump cult. 0:29:41.840 --> 0:29:42.040 It is. 0:29:42.120 --> 0:29:43.760 It is not a cult of like who is the 0:29:43.840 --> 0:29:45.840 leader in the DNC, but it is more of a 0:29:45.920 --> 0:29:48.800 cult of like ideology, which I guess the Republicans just 0:29:48.800 --> 0:29:49.600 don't even have anymore. 0:29:49.760 --> 0:29:52.640 It's not even that it's it's a cult of I 0:29:52.680 --> 0:29:56.520 think I would describe it as defensive cult making. Democrats 0:29:56.520 --> 0:29:59.720 have been so bewildered and frightened by the momentum that 0:30:00.400 --> 0:30:04.160 and his people have had over the last decade, and 0:30:04.240 --> 0:30:07.440 they have like responded in part by adapting some aspects 0:30:07.480 --> 0:30:12.320 of like the cultic milieu to wrap around these ideas 0:30:12.360 --> 0:30:15.680 that like are safe to them like that. That's a 0:30:15.680 --> 0:30:17.360 big part of the appeal of that don't go back 0:30:17.480 --> 0:30:19.959 champ right, which I think is a smart bit of 0:30:20.000 --> 0:30:22.960 politics and I think actually it has the potential to 0:30:22.960 --> 0:30:25.040 save quite a bit of lives, particularly at least of 0:30:25.080 --> 0:30:28.880 like queer trans people in the United States. So I'm 0:30:28.920 --> 0:30:32.400 not saying this is bad politics, but there is a 0:30:32.600 --> 0:30:35.280 level of cultiness to that where you are kind of 0:30:35.320 --> 0:30:43.040 enrapturing people with this possibility of constant forward motion that 0:30:43.320 --> 0:30:46.920 we all know doesn't feel as true as it felt 0:30:47.000 --> 0:30:50.040 in twenties fifteen or fourteen, you know, it doesn't feel 0:30:50.240 --> 0:30:52.880 as possible as it felt in twenty twelve or two 0:30:52.880 --> 0:30:56.240 thousand and eight. That they're kind of trying to sell 0:30:56.280 --> 0:30:58.800 people on if we can just get over the hurdle 0:30:58.800 --> 0:31:01.040 of these Republicans, right, we can get back to the 0:31:01.080 --> 0:31:03.640 period where like things felt like we were all moving 0:31:03.680 --> 0:31:08.320 in the right direction, and that's magical thinking, Yeah. 0:31:08.400 --> 0:31:10.640 We can get back to a period of steady progress. 0:31:11.400 --> 0:31:14.240 I try to be even about this because as I 0:31:14.280 --> 0:31:18.600 wrote that episode, the fucking don't panic episode, because I 0:31:18.760 --> 0:31:22.600 was looking at people's talking on Reddit and Twitter and 0:31:22.640 --> 0:31:24.640 just in real life and being like, I think some 0:31:24.680 --> 0:31:27.360 folks might kill themselves soon, yeah, out of fear of 0:31:27.400 --> 0:31:30.200 the Republicans. So I really hope no one reads what 0:31:30.200 --> 0:31:32.880 I'm saying is like, ah, these stupid libs and their 0:31:33.000 --> 0:31:35.600 hope fetish It's like no, no, no, but it's still 0:31:35.640 --> 0:31:40.920 a cultic belief. It's not rational. It may be necessary 0:31:41.040 --> 0:31:45.080 sometimes irrational beliefs are necessary, sure, but there's not a 0:31:45.120 --> 0:31:49.200 good reason for it yet. And don't fall too far. 0:31:49.400 --> 0:31:52.760 Like fall, try not to fall further down that hole. 0:31:52.800 --> 0:31:54.840 Then you need to fall in order to keep yourself 0:31:54.880 --> 0:31:56.520 alive for the next eight months. 0:31:58.600 --> 0:32:02.040 So, even though Trump has spoke a lot the past 0:32:02.080 --> 0:32:04.200 eight years, his speech at the ER and C I 0:32:04.200 --> 0:32:06.560 think was important because it was the first one post assassination. 0:32:07.080 --> 0:32:11.280 His viewership for that speech peaked at twenty eight point 0:32:11.280 --> 0:32:16.480 four million. Viewership for Kamala's speech Thursday night peaked at 0:32:16.560 --> 0:32:21.640 twenty eight point nine million. So she edged him out 0:32:21.840 --> 0:32:24.080 just barely, at least in terms of peak numbers, by 0:32:24.120 --> 0:32:25.640 about five hundred thousand views. 0:32:25.720 --> 0:32:28.160 Very even, very even, yeah. 0:32:27.920 --> 0:32:28.320 Very even. 0:32:28.320 --> 0:32:30.400 And again like Kama's not spoken tons, there's a lot 0:32:30.440 --> 0:32:32.600 of people of tuning in to see what she sounds like, 0:32:32.640 --> 0:32:34.800 kind of for the first time on a big national platform. 0:32:35.200 --> 0:32:37.200 And meanwhile, I think people are just briefly tuning into 0:32:37.240 --> 0:32:39.920 Trump just to see what he's like after getting shot 0:32:40.000 --> 0:32:43.960 in the head. And I will read a few of 0:32:44.000 --> 0:32:45.200 Trump's tweets of. 0:32:45.320 --> 0:32:47.480 Well, he's not doing well. He's not doing well at all? 0:32:48.640 --> 0:32:51.240 Man, was he spiraling? Oh my god? 0:32:51.400 --> 0:32:55.560 From Kamala's speech? He just started by all caps, is 0:32:55.600 --> 0:32:56.880 she talking about me? 0:32:57.400 --> 0:33:02.360 Excellent, incredible stuff, Donald, buddy, I can tell you're slipping 0:33:02.440 --> 0:33:05.360 because four years ago, if you'd tried to tweet that out, 0:33:05.440 --> 0:33:06.920 you wouldn't have had to hear it from someone. There 0:33:06.920 --> 0:33:08.680 would have been a voice in your own head before 0:33:08.680 --> 0:33:11.160 you pressin that would have been like, don't do that, Donnie, 0:33:11.160 --> 0:33:14.200 come on, Donnie, come on, come on, You're better than. 0:33:14.040 --> 0:33:20.320 This quote too many thank yous, too rapidly said what's 0:33:20.360 --> 0:33:23.800 going on with her? Followed by one minute later in 0:33:23.840 --> 0:33:27.160 all caps, where's Hunter see again? 0:33:27.960 --> 0:33:29.520 His prime? It would have been something. It would have 0:33:29.520 --> 0:33:33.240 been something like loopy harror, shit, some shit. He would 0:33:33.240 --> 0:33:35.800 have made some sort of insulting remark about her personal 0:33:35.800 --> 0:33:37.920 appearance and ignored the rest of the speech. 0:33:39.000 --> 0:33:43.440 One one minute later, Walls was an assistant coach, not 0:33:43.560 --> 0:33:44.200 a coach. 0:33:44.360 --> 0:33:45.800 That's such a weak. 0:33:46.000 --> 0:33:48.440 Very funny, very funny. 0:33:49.200 --> 0:33:50.040 Oh my god. 0:33:51.000 --> 0:33:54.440 Most American men have been on a sports team, and 0:33:54.480 --> 0:33:57.560 we all know you just call them all coach. Everyone 0:33:57.640 --> 0:34:00.760 is like coach, They're just all coach. You don't say 0:34:00.800 --> 0:34:05.520 assistant coach. No player in a football team is everything like, hey, 0:34:05.560 --> 0:34:07.920 assistant coach, could you come over here? Like that's just 0:34:07.960 --> 0:34:08.919 not the way people are. 0:34:09.120 --> 0:34:11.560 No wow, anything else. 0:34:12.040 --> 0:34:14.000 A few months ago, we did an episode talking about 0:34:14.080 --> 0:34:16.360 kind of polls that is now largely outdated because Biden's 0:34:16.360 --> 0:34:18.520 no longer in the race, but we did talk about 0:34:18.520 --> 0:34:21.040 how most people's pick for president was literally anybody else. 0:34:21.520 --> 0:34:25.000 We saw one booth at the DNC protest that was 0:34:25.120 --> 0:34:27.160 literally anyone else themed booth, And oh boy, do I 0:34:27.200 --> 0:34:28.480 have news for you, buddy. 0:34:28.640 --> 0:34:29.160 Good news. 0:34:29.200 --> 0:34:33.719 But we do have some polling data kind of on 0:34:34.480 --> 0:34:38.279 how satisfied people feel based on their choices for this 0:34:38.320 --> 0:34:41.960 presidential election. Now, obviously there's there's a small post convention 0:34:42.080 --> 0:34:44.040 bump for Harris, but that that that kind of usually 0:34:44.080 --> 0:34:48.000 tapers off. But in terms of their satisfaction of the 0:34:48.080 --> 0:34:52.840 candidacy options, in May, only fifty five percent of Democrats 0:34:52.880 --> 0:34:57.400 said they were satisfied. Now seventy nine percent say they're satisfied. 0:34:57.840 --> 0:35:01.160 Massive and for Republicans, back in May, sixty eight were 0:35:01.200 --> 0:35:04.480 satisfied and now seventy four are satisfied, so but both 0:35:04.520 --> 0:35:08.399 are moving towards higher satisfaction. And obviously the giant shift 0:35:08.400 --> 0:35:10.799 in Democrat numbers is because is because of Kamala now 0:35:11.160 --> 0:35:15.560 and they're more satisfied with her than Republicans seem to 0:35:15.560 --> 0:35:18.240 be with Trump, which is which is an interesting stat 0:35:18.239 --> 0:35:20.080 And this is based on a New York Times Seata 0:35:20.080 --> 0:35:24.560 College poll of registered voters in Arizona, Georgia, Nomada, Michigan, Pennsylvania, 0:35:24.600 --> 0:35:25.480 and Wisconsin. 0:35:26.560 --> 0:35:27.759 So that's just. 0:35:27.719 --> 0:35:30.279 A few a few interesting a few interesting little notes 0:35:30.320 --> 0:35:34.560 there as we close out this week talking about the DNC. 0:35:34.680 --> 0:35:38.480 And then finally I have one kind of little funny anecdote. 0:35:38.560 --> 0:35:42.719 As we were leaving the DNC after Kamala's speech, means, 0:35:42.719 --> 0:35:46.080 Sophie was walking around this area of Chicago trying to 0:35:46.080 --> 0:35:48.200 get far enough away from the convention center to get 0:35:48.280 --> 0:35:50.960 nuber and I saw this guy maybe in his like 0:35:51.080 --> 0:35:54.520 oh so funny, probably in his twenties, who is either 0:35:54.880 --> 0:35:57.240 about to block up or just de blocked. 0:35:57.280 --> 0:35:59.319 And you can tell because he's wearing the pants he's wearing. 0:35:59.360 --> 0:36:01.640 Doc Martins Scarrison is referring to someone who has just 0:36:01.680 --> 0:36:05.040 taken off their black block as in the traditional kind 0:36:05.080 --> 0:36:08.800 of anarchist protest garb and put on normal street clothes 0:36:08.880 --> 0:36:11.080 so as to escape from a police cordon. 0:36:11.680 --> 0:36:14.319 Yeah, so this guy was walking around, either about to 0:36:14.360 --> 0:36:16.320 go to the protest or just left still had the 0:36:16.360 --> 0:36:18.920 Doc martins On, had like the backpack full of his stuff. 0:36:19.040 --> 0:36:23.360 And as he walked by me, I just almost instinctively, 0:36:23.440 --> 0:36:25.440 like without thinking at all, this was this was this 0:36:25.520 --> 0:36:29.120 wasn't on purpose, Just instinctively, I kind of muttered to myself, 0:36:29.320 --> 0:36:33.640 I know what you are and and he heard this 0:36:33.760 --> 0:36:37.760 and like turned around, looking kind of like confused or concern, 0:36:38.200 --> 0:36:40.160 and I just had to I had to turn around. 0:36:40.400 --> 0:36:42.239 I just gave him a smile and a thumbs up, 0:36:42.440 --> 0:36:45.719 and he smiled back and kept and kept walking on. 0:36:46.800 --> 0:36:51.440 And that was my last interaction at the DNC, just 0:36:51.560 --> 0:36:53.799 like this a little bit of using to me. There 0:36:53.880 --> 0:36:56.960 was a protest of around similar numbers to Mondays, so 0:36:57.440 --> 0:36:59.960 maybe like three thousand, two thousand people for kind of 0:37:00.120 --> 0:37:03.279 the last march on the DNC last Thursday. So there 0:37:03.360 --> 0:37:06.760 was another one of these big kind of coalition led marches. 0:37:06.920 --> 0:37:10.279 Quickly. It was not far from Monday's numbers actually, which 0:37:10.400 --> 0:37:11.640 was impressive. 0:37:11.320 --> 0:37:14.200 Pretty close, pretty close, but they did not reach the 0:37:14.239 --> 0:37:16.640 fence on like last time, a small section of them 0:37:16.640 --> 0:37:20.160 did not break off from the protest marshals and bypass 0:37:20.320 --> 0:37:22.799 a section of the fence on onlike Monday, which did 0:37:22.840 --> 0:37:26.200 cause significant disruptions, but disruptions were not needed because the 0:37:26.280 --> 0:37:29.399 DNZ disrupted itself by overbooking the venue and having way 0:37:29.400 --> 0:37:30.040 too many people. 0:37:30.160 --> 0:37:33.000 So there you go. That was the DNC. 0:37:33.280 --> 0:37:35.200 I'm really glad it's over me too. 0:37:35.640 --> 0:37:38.400 I'm really glad it's over too. And I can't wait 0:37:38.800 --> 0:37:41.520 until twenty twenty eight when we all get to be 0:37:41.680 --> 0:37:46.279 together again to cover the next election. If there is. 0:37:46.280 --> 0:37:51.480 One, Comrade AOC proudly takes control. She raises the red 0:37:51.520 --> 0:37:52.920 flag on stage. 0:37:53.440 --> 0:37:58.600 Comrade AOC with her vice presidential candidate, the literal bones 0:37:58.640 --> 0:38:03.600 of Leon Trotsky running versus just an open chasm to 0:38:03.680 --> 0:38:07.000 the pit of Hell, an actual crack in the earth 0:38:07.480 --> 0:38:11.239 through which you can see the ephemeral forms of demons 0:38:11.400 --> 0:38:15.640 roiling in the magma below. That's gotta be a great 0:38:15.719 --> 0:38:18.680 gotta be a great one. Really excited for those conventions. 0:38:18.160 --> 0:38:20.080 And or Donald Trump Junior. 0:38:20.880 --> 0:38:25.320 Eric Trump and Donald Trump Junior, finally the Dream Team. 0:38:25.640 --> 0:38:27.560 I believe they could open up a chasm to Hell. 0:38:28.080 --> 0:38:28.919 I do. 0:38:29.040 --> 0:38:31.160 I think what would be more likely is if Eric 0:38:31.200 --> 0:38:33.880 Trump and Donald Trump Junior are on the same team 0:38:33.920 --> 0:38:36.800 with a bunch of secret Service agents, that we finally, 0:38:37.200 --> 0:38:41.399 finally have a presidential election decided from a fentanyl overdose. 0:38:43.080 --> 0:38:44.520 They get some tampered coke. 0:38:45.000 --> 0:38:46.640 Anyways, the podcast is over. 0:38:46.760 --> 0:39:07.799 I'm gonna go die now goodbye. 0:39:09.200 --> 0:39:13.200 When therefore, a man is told you your inner being 0:39:13.440 --> 0:39:16.919 are so and so because your skull bone is so constituted, 0:39:17.520 --> 0:39:20.920 this means nothing else than that we regard a bone 0:39:21.560 --> 0:39:25.440 as the man's reality. To retort upon such a statement, 0:39:25.880 --> 0:39:29.319 The retort here would properly speaking, have to go to 0:39:29.360 --> 0:39:31.719 the link, so breaking the skull of the person who 0:39:31.719 --> 0:39:34.400 makes a statement like that, in order to demonstrate to 0:39:34.480 --> 0:39:36.880 him in a manner as palpable as his own wisdom, 0:39:37.160 --> 0:39:40.160 that a bone is nothing of an inherent nature at 0:39:40.200 --> 0:39:43.840 all for a man still less his true reality. Welcome 0:39:43.840 --> 0:39:46.799 to knapp here. I'm your host, Bia Wong. That was 0:39:46.840 --> 0:39:50.920 the man himself, George Wilhelm Frederick Hegel from the Phenomenology 0:39:50.960 --> 0:39:51.480 of Mind. 0:39:52.360 --> 0:39:56.839 I'm gonna go full Ceesar shape post here like that's not. 0:39:56.960 --> 0:40:06.239 Hegel lovely and with me is as you as you 0:40:06.280 --> 0:40:09.120 have just heard is Emmie Flores, a queer socialist in 0:40:09.160 --> 0:40:11.839 Mexico City who's we've had on the show before talk 0:40:11.840 --> 0:40:15.440 about Mexican turfs, who's worked with Zapotisea Networks, And we are, 0:40:15.800 --> 0:40:19.799 once again, I think, delving into the terrifying, extremely well 0:40:19.920 --> 0:40:23.960 organized world of Mexican turfs. And I guess this is 0:40:24.120 --> 0:40:26.640 kind of a they're eating a bit of shit episode, 0:40:27.080 --> 0:40:27.720 which is good. 0:40:27.840 --> 0:40:29.680 We have good news in this show. 0:40:30.040 --> 0:40:33.040 Who very rare occurrence we have. We have a little 0:40:33.080 --> 0:40:36.040 bit of good news. Yeah, also, welcome to the show. 0:40:36.040 --> 0:40:37.000 Excited to have you back. 0:40:37.280 --> 0:40:41.680 I love it. I love the show, and I'm happy 0:40:41.719 --> 0:40:44.080 to update because last time we left on a real 0:40:44.160 --> 0:40:47.040 sour note, and this time, I mean, it's not exactly 0:40:47.120 --> 0:40:53.160 fantastic news, but things are looking up in this specific part, 0:40:53.280 --> 0:40:56.279 and I think you're going to introduce us to a 0:40:56.280 --> 0:40:58.239 massive dolly we just got worldwide. 0:40:59.320 --> 0:41:02.800 Yeah, so we ended up not doing a full episode 0:41:02.800 --> 0:41:05.000 on this, but one of the big sort of stories 0:41:05.000 --> 0:41:06.120 for the last few weeks. 0:41:06.200 --> 0:41:06.960 And I don't know. 0:41:06.880 --> 0:41:08.319 When this episod is gonna be coming out, so maybe 0:41:08.320 --> 0:41:10.319 this is gonna be ancient news by that point. But 0:41:10.840 --> 0:41:13.280 the day we're recording this is like one day after 0:41:13.440 --> 0:41:16.479 the Aegerian boxer in mon khalif I'd won the gold 0:41:16.480 --> 0:41:18.560 medal of the Olympics. She has been I mean, this 0:41:18.600 --> 0:41:20.360 story has been sort of beaten to death, but like 0:41:20.440 --> 0:41:25.240 she's been like accused of being a man and being 0:41:25.440 --> 0:41:29.920 like transgender, and like all of this shit from a 0:41:29.960 --> 0:41:32.200 whole bunch of like, I mean everyone from like Elon 0:41:32.320 --> 0:41:36.440 Musk to like jk Rowling to Meggan. Kelly's losing her 0:41:36.480 --> 0:41:39.040 mind about it. I forgot she even existed until this, 0:41:39.760 --> 0:41:43.600 but she's apparently around and doing this, you know. So 0:41:43.600 --> 0:41:46.359 so I think people sort of know the basics of 0:41:46.400 --> 0:41:48.200 this story, but there's a part of the story about 0:41:48.200 --> 0:41:50.919 sort of you know, I will, I guess we'll probably 0:41:50.920 --> 0:41:53.080 get into a little bit of this about how a 0:41:53.080 --> 0:41:55.200 lot of this is sort of manufactured by a bunch 0:41:55.200 --> 0:41:58.960 of incredibly sore losers and like weird transphobes in a 0:41:59.280 --> 0:42:05.640 incredibly corrupt like Russian ran boxing association, right right. But 0:42:05.719 --> 0:42:08.480 the other side of this, it has gotten absolutely zero 0:42:08.600 --> 0:42:12.960 coverage anywhere. Is that a huge amount of the attacks 0:42:13.080 --> 0:42:18.000 against against her were started by the Mexican Turf Network. 0:42:18.080 --> 0:42:20.359 Yeah, and so presently one of the few coverages I've 0:42:20.400 --> 0:42:24.000 seen has been in Mexican like feminist news, which is 0:42:24.320 --> 0:42:26.719 like part of the things that have changed since then, 0:42:26.760 --> 0:42:30.920 like Mexican and Latin American feminists have realized, oh, we 0:42:31.080 --> 0:42:35.360 fucked up, and we're trying to fix our mistakes. But sadly, 0:42:35.480 --> 0:42:38.680 I think the world suffered one of our latest mistakes. 0:42:39.480 --> 0:42:41.959 Yeah, so can you tell us about sort of how 0:42:42.000 --> 0:42:45.120 this whole thing started, which I think is like several 0:42:45.200 --> 0:42:49.719 years earlier than most people seem to really like understand. 0:42:50.040 --> 0:42:52.520 I think the corruption angle that we might expand a 0:42:52.560 --> 0:42:56.239 little bit more, that is the beginning of it. And 0:42:56.280 --> 0:42:58.520 I think it was a little bit and it was 0:42:58.560 --> 0:43:01.080 like in the wrong place at the wrong time. Let's 0:43:01.080 --> 0:43:03.960 be real, she won gold. I was not betting on 0:43:03.960 --> 0:43:06.640 her winning gold. Like, she's really good, but she's not 0:43:06.800 --> 0:43:13.120 like the buffiest out there. It's pure racism and convenience 0:43:13.120 --> 0:43:16.680 that she's been labeled and targeted the way the wish 0:43:16.800 --> 0:43:19.719 is because like you see her opponents and there are 0:43:19.760 --> 0:43:22.880 the buffiest girls I've ever seen in my life. They're incredible, 0:43:23.200 --> 0:43:26.640 Like every single athlete up there is amazing. And took 0:43:26.719 --> 0:43:29.200 pictures of her and say, you're telling me, this is 0:43:29.239 --> 0:43:33.280 not a man like she's like a little bit skinny honestly, 0:43:33.480 --> 0:43:35.320 Like she's really tall, so she has to be skinny 0:43:35.360 --> 0:43:36.319 to be competing that way. 0:43:36.360 --> 0:43:38.960 It's like have you had people ever seen a boxer before, 0:43:39.120 --> 0:43:42.120 Like it's just bad. 0:43:41.680 --> 0:43:44.440 Like one of the boxers that defended her, like she 0:43:44.560 --> 0:43:48.080 was offended, Like you're telling me that I've been in 0:43:48.200 --> 0:43:51.160 money before, and like I didn't even qualify for these 0:43:51.239 --> 0:43:54.279 year's Olympics. Like she's not invincible, even if this is 0:43:54.360 --> 0:43:57.480 probably her best best performance. Yea, she really show on 0:43:57.520 --> 0:44:00.400 the spotlight. I love her, but like she's not extremely 0:44:00.520 --> 0:44:03.440 muscular or anything. Not that being muscular is masculine, but 0:44:03.640 --> 0:44:08.279 like this was really just both racism and convenience. But 0:44:09.480 --> 0:44:12.360 part of that is uh. One of the first people 0:44:12.360 --> 0:44:19.120 who started complaining about this after the corrupt Russian Russian 0:44:19.160 --> 0:44:22.640 Oligor glad box in federation that got disqualified from the Olympics. 0:44:22.760 --> 0:44:24.960 Yeah, like again I want I want a plause here 0:44:25.160 --> 0:44:29.200 and everyone like take note of this. Do you understand 0:44:29.440 --> 0:44:32.200 how corrupt of an organization you have to be for 0:44:32.320 --> 0:44:36.480 the fucking Olympics to stop working with you, Like you 0:44:36.640 --> 0:44:40.879 have to make the Chicago fucking machine look squeaky clean 0:44:41.400 --> 0:44:44.440 for for the Olympics to network. 0:44:44.480 --> 0:44:47.600 Like when we're talking about every single other sport is 0:44:47.760 --> 0:44:50.560 also wind shit like this, Like they just went to 0:44:50.719 --> 0:44:54.439 greedy like they like in some Russian oligarch that got 0:44:54.440 --> 0:44:57.239 into fights with people during the war in Ukraine, and 0:44:57.280 --> 0:44:59.720 then they didn't stop doing corruption shit, Like they couldn't 0:44:59.719 --> 0:45:01.040 just take a year break. 0:45:01.480 --> 0:45:05.520 They had to push. Yeah, like they had to play 0:45:06.200 --> 0:45:08.680 two dirty. So at the end of the day in 0:45:08.800 --> 0:45:14.080 Manica disqualified with like trust me, pro levels of citations 0:45:14.120 --> 0:45:17.560 for her. No one knew for a while what what 0:45:17.600 --> 0:45:21.560 was the thing that disqualified her? What was it? Hormones, chromosomes, vibes. 0:45:21.640 --> 0:45:25.680 It turns out it's mostly vibes. Yeah, and uh so 0:45:25.800 --> 0:45:29.479 when when she got disqualified from a not an Olympic event, 0:45:29.520 --> 0:45:35.520 but uh corrupt Russian arclead event. A former boxer who 0:45:35.560 --> 0:45:39.520 lost against her, who's from Mexico, who sucks ass like 0:45:40.400 --> 0:45:44.319 she's really dog shit. She started posting pictures of her 0:45:44.360 --> 0:45:47.400 ruses after the match, and honestly, she reminds me of 0:45:47.440 --> 0:45:50.320 the Italian boxer that also got her ship rocks. Yeah, 0:45:50.360 --> 0:45:55.919 because they keep she did perform very well in Many 0:45:56.000 --> 0:45:58.080 at the at the end when when she got gold, 0:45:58.120 --> 0:46:02.440 but the very first like matches she got were against 0:46:02.600 --> 0:46:04.319 like how did these people get here? 0:46:04.760 --> 0:46:07.239 Yeah, like that that Italian boxer, Like this is the 0:46:07.280 --> 0:46:09.279 only time I will ever say this about something that 0:46:09.320 --> 0:46:10.280 happened in the Olympics. 0:46:10.520 --> 0:46:12.200 It's like the Italian boxer threw the. 0:46:12.120 --> 0:46:14.880 Worst punch I've ever seen and then instantly got punched 0:46:14.920 --> 0:46:17.840 by like the most obvious punch of the entire world 0:46:17.880 --> 0:46:18.400 in the face. 0:46:18.640 --> 0:46:21.040 It's like, wait, what are you doing? How did you 0:46:21.320 --> 0:46:21.879 get here? 0:46:22.360 --> 0:46:25.200 Like, and like I won't go deep into why why 0:46:25.680 --> 0:46:28.480 Brianda Tamara sucks so much as because that would have 0:46:28.560 --> 0:46:31.960 been the episode we ended up not doing, but suffice 0:46:31.960 --> 0:46:33.959 it to say, like she's just not in that level. 0:46:33.960 --> 0:46:36.600 She didn't qualify for a reason this time. But and 0:46:36.880 --> 0:46:39.719 also I noticed that she was waiting to do her 0:46:39.760 --> 0:46:44.800 proterview right now, like something fill planned about all of this. Yeah, 0:46:45.200 --> 0:46:48.560 Like she she announced that she retired from amateur boxing, 0:46:48.960 --> 0:46:52.279 which you not, honestly is the more legit boxing, don't 0:46:52.280 --> 0:46:56.080 at me. And she she's going bro which means she's 0:46:56.160 --> 0:47:00.560 now charging for tickets. And she announced her ProView the 0:47:00.640 --> 0:47:06.120 same day that this whole like bundle started for international 0:47:06.200 --> 0:47:09.759 people watching the Olympics. Like she very much knew that 0:47:09.920 --> 0:47:11.680 the people were gonna try something. 0:47:11.960 --> 0:47:14.759 Yeah, so she so she's using this as like boxing promoting, yeah, 0:47:14.760 --> 0:47:16.680 pretty much, which is like the shady ship. 0:47:17.000 --> 0:47:22.400 Yeah, boxing promoting in Cinela, which like if you know 0:47:22.480 --> 0:47:24.920 anything about Mexico, that's that's gonna be a couple of 0:47:24.960 --> 0:47:29.360 red les, oh boy. But so the thing is, why 0:47:29.360 --> 0:47:32.160 did she knew that she was gonna happen? Really says 0:47:32.200 --> 0:47:36.120 a lot about how international terms are operating nowadays, right, 0:47:36.280 --> 0:47:38.719 like I don't want to get all fucking Russia Gate 0:47:38.800 --> 0:47:44.279 and like like have my fucking persecure body pillow like 0:47:44.320 --> 0:47:46.720 some leaves have. But terms are trying to get money 0:47:46.760 --> 0:47:49.359 and influence anywhere they can, and some of them are 0:47:49.400 --> 0:47:51.800 trying to get in from Russia, right like yeah, it's 0:47:52.080 --> 0:47:55.920 if they're already putting people in concreation camps in China, 0:47:56.040 --> 0:47:58.359 like they say, hell, yeah, I want me some of that. 0:47:58.880 --> 0:48:01.520 And you know the Brits are something too focused on Britain. 0:48:01.920 --> 0:48:04.600 You need something international to make the money flow down 0:48:04.640 --> 0:48:08.000 to Latin America, especially out of Spain. Spain kind of 0:48:08.120 --> 0:48:11.799 hawks it all for themselves. The first new site that 0:48:11.960 --> 0:48:16.160 took the years ago translated to English is called Redox 0:48:16.239 --> 0:48:19.840 magazine like that, I think it's a Canadian joint reados. 0:48:20.160 --> 0:48:22.840 It's the only side I've seen in all of like 0:48:22.960 --> 0:48:28.840 the urf landscape that only publishes in English and Spanish. Like, 0:48:28.920 --> 0:48:32.960 it's very clearly a fulcrum for like terf organizing in 0:48:33.040 --> 0:48:37.319 Latin America and in the anglosphere. And I don't think 0:48:37.360 --> 0:48:42.440 it's a coincidence that this story broke quote unquote, Like 0:48:42.520 --> 0:48:45.840 the first people who commented on this and like renewed 0:48:45.840 --> 0:48:50.960 the accusations of Umana being trans was Redocs and then 0:48:51.239 --> 0:48:55.799 other like transphobic boxing coaches from Italy and England and 0:48:55.960 --> 0:48:58.920 the United States started picking up the story. But that 0:48:59.200 --> 0:49:04.080 was after like the more diplomatically minded Mexican turfs and 0:49:04.120 --> 0:49:07.319 Spanish turfs that usually don't work together. Again, they don't 0:49:07.360 --> 0:49:10.360 like to share. Listen, Mexico don't have the best relationship 0:49:10.560 --> 0:49:16.400 with Spain for obvious reasons. Yeah, But even then, like 0:49:17.040 --> 0:49:20.719 ass spaces for TERFs in Mexico had been closing, they're 0:49:20.800 --> 0:49:24.480 looking for funding from other places. Right, the turf gambit 0:49:24.520 --> 0:49:26.640 didn't work quite well in Mexico, so they're trying to 0:49:26.800 --> 0:49:30.799 look for international sponsor sponsorships, and they thought they had 0:49:30.880 --> 0:49:33.680 hit a big one here. They had the attention of 0:49:33.719 --> 0:49:38.200 the entire world. People were sharing Breanda's photos because like again, 0:49:38.239 --> 0:49:40.600 Brianda doesn't have it's not a good boxer, so she 0:49:40.719 --> 0:49:44.520 looks like a young short, pretty lated like beer Verista, 0:49:45.120 --> 0:49:48.239 and put her against like someone who's like a head 0:49:48.280 --> 0:49:51.600 taller that beat her ass because she she sucks. They 0:49:51.640 --> 0:49:53.919 couldn't ask for a very propaganda. Yeah, but it really 0:49:53.960 --> 0:49:57.239 backfired when the entire world went, what what are you 0:49:57.320 --> 0:50:03.480 talking about? Yeah, but I think it worked for Mexican turfs. 0:50:03.520 --> 0:50:05.320 I think they might get like a couple of grants 0:50:05.320 --> 0:50:09.359 here and there. They're back in the railar at least internationally, 0:50:09.440 --> 0:50:11.680 and that's why I think coming here is really important 0:50:11.680 --> 0:50:14.440 because we didn't win precisely, and we'll get to that, 0:50:14.920 --> 0:50:17.640 but at least we're in a stalemate, and I think 0:50:17.640 --> 0:50:21.359 they're trying to look for either allies or honestly job 0:50:21.400 --> 0:50:25.640 s elsewhere. They might just want a spot in Ridos magazine, 0:50:25.680 --> 0:50:28.239 like to get into like be able to move to 0:50:28.280 --> 0:50:29.799 Britain or shit like that. 0:50:30.239 --> 0:50:30.399 Yeah. 0:50:30.600 --> 0:50:35.080 I think is something that is important about the Mexican TERFs, 0:50:35.120 --> 0:50:37.759 which is like unlike in the US, where there's just 0:50:37.880 --> 0:50:41.680 this like unbelievably large pot of money that you can 0:50:41.719 --> 0:50:44.799 tap into from like the Heritage Foundation and like all 0:50:44.800 --> 0:50:47.279 of these sort of like right wing think tanks. It's 0:50:47.320 --> 0:50:50.799 like the funding is a lot harder to come by. 0:50:51.600 --> 0:50:53.360 We all have troubles getting funding. 0:50:53.440 --> 0:50:53.560 Lot. 0:50:53.680 --> 0:50:57.120 Yeah, any type of small grant that would be a 0:50:57.239 --> 0:51:00.399 nothing burger in America goes a long way here, right, 0:51:01.000 --> 0:51:03.880 And so the far right has been really smart and 0:51:03.920 --> 0:51:08.279 pushing stuff, but it hasn't really paid divends. And it's 0:51:08.320 --> 0:51:10.759 all gonna write up for a while, honestly, especially with 0:51:10.840 --> 0:51:13.319 like how the economy is going. I think in the 0:51:13.360 --> 0:51:15.960 Age of infinite money of twenty twenty, like they were 0:51:16.120 --> 0:51:18.720 willing to throw more money at like a long shot 0:51:18.840 --> 0:51:22.600 that in Brasil or Mexico right now. They got to 0:51:22.640 --> 0:51:24.560 bring something to the table, and they tried to bring 0:51:24.640 --> 0:51:27.719 in money, and they I think they fucking ate shit. 0:51:30.280 --> 0:51:32.279 Hell yeah, So okay, you know what else brings something 0:51:32.320 --> 0:51:34.600 to the table? It is the products and services that 0:51:34.760 --> 0:51:36.400 I put food on my table. 0:51:36.480 --> 0:51:36.960 I guess. 0:51:37.360 --> 0:51:39.000 God, all the other pros of this. 0:51:40.880 --> 0:51:41.439 Here are these. 0:51:41.360 --> 0:51:52.360 Ads and we are back. 0:51:52.680 --> 0:51:56.160 So I wanted to kind of move to talking about 0:51:56.200 --> 0:51:59.959 what's been happening in this sort of Mexican feminis scene 0:52:00.040 --> 0:52:02.200 in in terms of sort of what's what's been going 0:52:02.239 --> 0:52:05.960 on with her since the election of the new Mexican President, 0:52:06.560 --> 0:52:09.719 Claudia Shamebaum, Who's I don't know, like I think a 0:52:09.719 --> 0:52:12.279 lot of Americans, I think the conception of her is 0:52:12.280 --> 0:52:14.719 that she's like significantly further left, and she actually is. 0:52:14.840 --> 0:52:18.319 Oh yeah, like I you know what, I felt so 0:52:18.480 --> 0:52:21.680 much Scott and Freud when like people started talking about 0:52:21.719 --> 0:52:25.719 Kamala like she was gonna end Aparth type and the 0:52:25.800 --> 0:52:27.319 general side, and I was like, how does see it? 0:52:27.360 --> 0:52:31.840 Fucking feel sorry, I'm really angry at every single article 0:52:32.160 --> 0:52:35.200 no one caocked her correctly, like both the far right 0:52:35.800 --> 0:52:38.479 and the left thought she was significantly to the left, 0:52:39.280 --> 0:52:42.240 like everyone said like, oh, finally a feminist Jewish woman, 0:52:42.280 --> 0:52:44.719 and like the Jewish Party is gonna play a part 0:52:44.800 --> 0:52:46.799 because like I do, feel we're gonna see a rise 0:52:46.840 --> 0:52:50.239 in anti Semitism in Mexico, a big one, Like say, 0:52:50.640 --> 0:52:53.680 I feel like a Birther style movement from when Obama 0:52:53.760 --> 0:52:57.520 was elected coming up and it's gonna play again. I 0:52:57.920 --> 0:53:01.280 see Claudie shamebamb She's not just an extension of Amelo 0:53:01.680 --> 0:53:04.080 and she is I would say, not further to the 0:53:04.200 --> 0:53:08.640 left than and there's whatever, but she has less right 0:53:08.640 --> 0:53:11.640 wing things about her, right, It's not like she's better 0:53:11.640 --> 0:53:15.840 than Handload, she's just less worse. She's she because like 0:53:15.880 --> 0:53:18.640 almost like an old Christian guy, like and I do 0:53:18.760 --> 0:53:21.120 mean Christian, Like this is a Catholic country, and Nanload 0:53:21.280 --> 0:53:23.400 is like I think it's he's like Pentecostal or something 0:53:23.440 --> 0:53:27.640 like he's never needed like what his relatives said, but 0:53:27.840 --> 0:53:31.400 he did do like weird right wing things, especially culturally, 0:53:31.440 --> 0:53:34.759 well I mean not everywhere right, Like we got hell 0:53:34.800 --> 0:53:38.120 of militarized, like half our infrastructure is owned by the 0:53:38.120 --> 0:53:42.640 military now, which is like just Jack Carton metoying ourselves 0:53:42.719 --> 0:53:47.000 like for free. And he goes on rants about how 0:53:47.320 --> 0:53:50.839 drugs are caused by valuing video games and like like 0:53:51.080 --> 0:53:53.839 he like for for a week, try to like say 0:53:53.840 --> 0:53:56.880 we should ban Fortnite. That didn't know anywhere, and I 0:53:56.920 --> 0:53:59.719 think it was just because his son didn't stop playing it. 0:54:00.160 --> 0:54:05.680 Maybe he overspent on the family credit card. But like, yeah, 0:54:06.080 --> 0:54:10.040 he's very like he has a very Christian morality, and 0:54:10.600 --> 0:54:14.239 it's a weird fit with Mexicans Catholic one in the 0:54:14.280 --> 0:54:17.719 weirdest way. Like he's very like work Will, like very 0:54:17.719 --> 0:54:21.359 Protestant ethics guy, and people didn't talk about that, and 0:54:21.400 --> 0:54:24.640 now they think Claudia is gonna bring like Jewish ethics. 0:54:24.640 --> 0:54:30.000 And no, she's like just like a Mexican scientist, like professional, 0:54:30.160 --> 0:54:32.759 like she's very much a scientist at least that's her 0:54:32.760 --> 0:54:35.959 self conception and how she operates. And she I think 0:54:36.760 --> 0:54:39.600 a lot of people underestimated her, like they just saw 0:54:39.600 --> 0:54:42.440 her as an appendage of Handlow, like with no real 0:54:43.280 --> 0:54:46.759 political document or skill of herself. She doesn't really have 0:54:46.840 --> 0:54:49.840 a base of voters. Again, she's like an academic like 0:54:49.880 --> 0:54:54.680 her bass voters are college graduates left lining college garrets, 0:54:54.719 --> 0:54:57.480 but not too left learning because otherwise you'll see like, hey, 0:54:57.640 --> 0:55:02.120 please stop militaries in our country. And yeah, so we 0:55:02.480 --> 0:55:06.920 didn't expect her to to win with like the margins 0:55:06.960 --> 0:55:09.839 that she did. She won with historic margins more both 0:55:09.960 --> 0:55:13.799 than a lookout. It's just she's so fucking shrue. And 0:55:13.840 --> 0:55:16.480 this ties to the TERFs because like four years we 0:55:16.480 --> 0:55:19.160 were really worried because like we thought she was a turf, 0:55:19.480 --> 0:55:21.640 Like we straight up thought she was a turf, even 0:55:21.680 --> 0:55:25.080 though she passed some of the largest like trends positive 0:55:25.160 --> 0:55:28.600 legislations in Mexico City. That was more like momentum from 0:55:28.640 --> 0:55:32.200 Mexico City being like this progressive center of Mexican politics, 0:55:32.840 --> 0:55:35.919 and like I know, I participated in getting that law pass, 0:55:36.000 --> 0:55:39.560 like like she wasn't happy about that. She basically was 0:55:39.640 --> 0:55:44.120 trying to get some Heritage Foundation funded folks to sit 0:55:44.200 --> 0:55:46.799 in a table and like have a big discussion, like 0:55:47.480 --> 0:55:50.080 a very very centristing thing of like let's listen to 0:55:50.080 --> 0:55:53.440 both sides. And it's because she had like some of 0:55:53.480 --> 0:55:57.120 the og TERFs from Mexico, like from some some of 0:55:57.160 --> 0:55:59.080 them like that started in the seventies, Like people who 0:55:59.160 --> 0:56:02.360 knew Jenny's raim when she was young were literally in 0:56:02.520 --> 0:56:07.000 Morena structure. Like during twenty twenty, like the women's agenda 0:56:07.080 --> 0:56:09.919 for Morena was set by turfs, by some of the 0:56:09.920 --> 0:56:12.680 the worst turfs, like some of the most internationally well 0:56:12.680 --> 0:56:15.760 connected turfs too, right, and that was a huge problem. 0:56:16.160 --> 0:56:19.200 We managed to push back against that with protests with 0:56:19.480 --> 0:56:22.840 like talking to politicians like not really begging, we just 0:56:23.440 --> 0:56:25.279 you know, that's a nice win do you have there? 0:56:26.360 --> 0:56:30.279 That would be a chief having too. And also that 0:56:30.480 --> 0:56:34.239 by like my collective, like we started focusing on like 0:56:35.440 --> 0:56:37.920 oh god, I don't want to say anymore because like 0:56:38.560 --> 0:56:41.759 since since Ukraine, like saying, oh, since soul Craine. But 0:56:41.840 --> 0:56:46.239 like we started like investigating and like tracking, like these 0:56:46.239 --> 0:56:48.920 people start showing up in like government positions. That was 0:56:48.920 --> 0:56:52.160 really worrying. Yeah, some of them were like very clearly 0:56:52.200 --> 0:56:55.240 affiliated with the far right, but some of them were 0:56:55.960 --> 0:56:59.440 they came from like union jobs on and she like that, 0:56:59.600 --> 0:57:03.200 or they like they were the anarchists throwing bricks at 0:57:03.280 --> 0:57:06.759 walls like a year ago, and we started seeing them 0:57:06.800 --> 0:57:10.200 get co opted slowly, and we were really scared. But 0:57:10.480 --> 0:57:14.160 then I think we underestimated that Claudia was playing us, 0:57:14.239 --> 0:57:17.040 but she was also playing them, Like she is a 0:57:17.080 --> 0:57:21.280 really shrewd political operator, and she gave TERFs enough to 0:57:22.280 --> 0:57:24.360 get them to do what terms do best, which is 0:57:24.720 --> 0:57:28.640 break up feminist organizing. Yeah, so whatever Cloudy could not 0:57:28.720 --> 0:57:32.480 directly co opt to like get like leaders, there were 0:57:32.520 --> 0:57:36.320 some like black Blocks in Mexico whose leaders like literally 0:57:36.360 --> 0:57:40.240 had in their linkedins that they were like doing like 0:57:40.280 --> 0:57:40.960 black blook shit. 0:57:41.160 --> 0:57:43.200 Oh my god, I know. 0:57:43.240 --> 0:57:47.880 It's incredible, And it just gave everything away because the 0:57:48.160 --> 0:57:51.400 same person who did that had in her LinkedIn like 0:57:51.600 --> 0:57:54.600 a year previously that she was like an eighty for 0:57:55.160 --> 0:57:58.680 a Marina congress woman. Oh my god, and h yeah, 0:57:58.720 --> 0:58:01.840 I think what Marina. They was infiltrate a lot of 0:58:01.840 --> 0:58:05.600 black blocks to neutralize them because during twenty twenty two 0:58:05.640 --> 0:58:10.000 years after Amlo got elected, like Mexican feminists were I 0:58:10.000 --> 0:58:13.680 would say, the biggest fire in social movements in Mexico, 0:58:13.960 --> 0:58:18.040 like with the Sapatistas getting surrounded by state sponsored narco 0:58:18.440 --> 0:58:21.400 cartels and stuff, like they were really paralyzed and with 0:58:21.520 --> 0:58:24.919 COVID and everything like that, like a lot of other 0:58:25.160 --> 0:58:29.560 organizing got real damaged. But feminists were like they were 0:58:29.560 --> 0:58:32.120 trying to get abortion passed, and they succeeded for most 0:58:32.120 --> 0:58:36.640 of it. But like institutional feminists succeeded banning abortion and 0:58:37.560 --> 0:58:44.840 more independent or street anarchists, socialist based feminists, they suddenly 0:58:44.840 --> 0:58:49.200 didn't have anything to demand. So they either got kushi 0:58:49.240 --> 0:58:53.560 government jobs or they got arrested or they helped the 0:58:53.560 --> 0:58:58.480 police arrest people, like by being like clearly just like 0:58:58.920 --> 0:59:01.080 you know the classic like eight people get arrested and 0:59:01.120 --> 0:59:03.480 one of them gets out in like a week and 0:59:03.560 --> 0:59:08.200 it's like ah yeah. And so like feminists got are 0:59:08.280 --> 0:59:12.680 road awakening, and before they were more permissive like cool feminists, 0:59:12.680 --> 0:59:17.200 like real leftists, socialist and queer feminists, were more permissive 0:59:17.280 --> 0:59:21.000 of TERFs during like the twenty sixteen two twenty twenty 0:59:21.000 --> 0:59:24.880 two because they thought, like, we need unity within feminism, 0:59:24.960 --> 0:59:27.160 we need to like get a version passed, we need 0:59:27.200 --> 0:59:30.880 to like combat both the far right and an lost conservatism. 0:59:31.520 --> 0:59:34.560 And well they won and a bunch of their leaders 0:59:34.600 --> 0:59:38.320 got co upted. We have an epidemic of like feminist 0:59:38.360 --> 0:59:42.840 activists passing laws with their names. Like the one movement 0:59:42.880 --> 0:59:45.400 that got defeated the worst is anti car solo feminism. 0:59:45.480 --> 0:59:49.560 Like forget about abolitionism in the carsonal sense. It's no 0:59:49.560 --> 0:59:52.040 one gave a shit about that. Even anarchists were trying 0:59:52.080 --> 0:59:56.919 to pass laws to like lay Olivia to scalp thats 0:59:56.920 --> 1:00:00.720 who haven't paid child support, Like they really at everything 1:00:00.800 --> 1:00:05.640 on punitivism. And that's the thing that united like every 1:00:05.680 --> 1:00:09.400 single segment of feminism, including rat friends centers, Like they 1:00:09.520 --> 1:00:12.600 love putting people in jail. It's their whole entire deal. 1:00:13.400 --> 1:00:15.920 And so but the thing is that's the way you 1:00:15.960 --> 1:00:18.440 get you co opt someone, You just tell her okay, 1:00:18.440 --> 1:00:22.920 instead of like being an archopunk like doing tagging government buildings. 1:00:23.040 --> 1:00:24.280 What if I just give you a shit a lot 1:00:24.320 --> 1:00:26.160 of money, and I pay for you to go to 1:00:26.400 --> 1:00:29.680 fancy hotels in every state and like talk about how 1:00:29.720 --> 1:00:33.080 important it is that we throw your X into a 1:00:34.760 --> 1:00:39.040 into a meat processing machine for like breaking up with you. Yeah, 1:00:39.080 --> 1:00:43.000 and I mean I'm being believed, like there's horrible shit, 1:00:43.240 --> 1:00:45.959 like we have to pass a lot to like give 1:00:46.000 --> 1:00:48.800 more time to people who threw acid at women's faces. Right, 1:00:48.880 --> 1:00:53.080 but like that's already legal. It's already legal. I don't 1:00:53.120 --> 1:00:55.680 know if it's gonna work that well, especially because like 1:00:55.760 --> 1:00:58.680 I think one of the most biggest cases of like 1:00:58.920 --> 1:01:03.000 a literal trafficker just got off jail this week and 1:01:04.120 --> 1:01:07.480 he literally tortured one of Mexico's biggest rod fims. And 1:01:07.480 --> 1:01:08.440 it's like, what did it? 1:01:09.560 --> 1:01:09.880 You did? 1:01:10.080 --> 1:01:12.560 Did this all for nothing? Like you're just gonna like 1:01:12.680 --> 1:01:14.880 lock up more poor people and like rich assholes are 1:01:14.920 --> 1:01:19.240 gonna work free. Yeah, and so yeah, that was twenty twenty. 1:01:19.400 --> 1:01:23.800 Then it got co opted and just like Claudia gave 1:01:23.880 --> 1:01:28.120 us some loss for trans people, she put turfs in 1:01:28.200 --> 1:01:32.520 government positions. We protested that, and then she dropped them, 1:01:32.560 --> 1:01:35.840 like she really did a andy with Woody, Like I 1:01:35.840 --> 1:01:38.240 don't want to play with you anymore. Like once she 1:01:38.480 --> 1:01:42.080 neutralized the feminist movement, once there were like there was 1:01:42.200 --> 1:01:45.920 no threat of escalation, she really didn't need the black 1:01:46.000 --> 1:01:49.360 the fake black blocks. She just you know dropped them. 1:01:49.600 --> 1:01:53.400 Yeah, And speaking of fake black blocks, you too could 1:01:53.400 --> 1:01:58.280 buy a fake flack flock from Products and Services. 1:02:08.800 --> 1:02:09.800 And we are back. 1:02:09.880 --> 1:02:13.160 Yeah, So let's get into what's been happening in kind 1:02:13.200 --> 1:02:16.840 of present day. The thing that's really interesting to me 1:02:16.920 --> 1:02:20.400 about like about the way that sort of Mexican turf 1:02:20.440 --> 1:02:24.240 stuff works is that they in a way that's kind 1:02:24.240 --> 1:02:26.120 of I don't know, American TERFs kind of work like this, 1:02:26.280 --> 1:02:29.200 Like they really function in a very similar way to 1:02:29.360 --> 1:02:32.240 like left social movements, right, except that they're like newer 1:02:32.320 --> 1:02:34.960 world social movement for evil. But it's like like they 1:02:35.000 --> 1:02:37.280 have a lot of the same kind of like strengths 1:02:37.320 --> 1:02:41.560 and weaknesses that that like conventional like social movements have, 1:02:41.640 --> 1:02:45.280 which I think ties into a lot of what's going 1:02:45.320 --> 1:02:46.880 to happen to them and the fact that you can 1:02:46.920 --> 1:02:48.240 you know, and in the same way that you can 1:02:48.240 --> 1:02:51.200 co opt to social movement, like they're also vulnerable to that. 1:02:51.480 --> 1:02:53.680 Yeah. Well, when money dr I saw and like the 1:02:53.760 --> 1:02:57.800 options are stop organizing as a feminist, Like I cannot 1:02:57.840 --> 1:03:02.240 tell you how many lesbian services serve are married and pregnant. Now, 1:03:02.600 --> 1:03:08.200 it's like they just dropped that shit like Shaman dropped them, 1:03:08.520 --> 1:03:10.520 like Shama didn't do it of the kindness of her heart. 1:03:10.560 --> 1:03:13.840 I think she realized that this was a vulnerability. She 1:03:13.920 --> 1:03:16.760 needed to convince like the Jacobins of the world that 1:03:16.840 --> 1:03:20.960 she was this socialist president like Amblo but even better 1:03:21.080 --> 1:03:24.400 now in feminist form, and she really couldn't do that 1:03:24.640 --> 1:03:28.600 if there was like these huge like people who didn't 1:03:28.600 --> 1:03:31.479 even pay attention to Mexican politics but just jk rowling. 1:03:32.200 --> 1:03:35.880 Like this was just a huge vulnerability. She also didn't 1:03:35.960 --> 1:03:38.800 want this mostly to be a debate. I heard rumors 1:03:38.840 --> 1:03:41.400 and I buy them completely, Like that she pushed for 1:03:41.760 --> 1:03:45.960 no treans women being legislators in our congress. Ye, because 1:03:45.960 --> 1:03:49.000 we had we had two before. One of them supped 1:03:49.040 --> 1:03:51.040 ass and the other one was kind of fine, like 1:03:51.160 --> 1:03:56.280 just normal lefty centrist woman. The other one was just horrible. 1:03:56.320 --> 1:03:58.680 So it's honestly, I'm going with it. 1:03:58.760 --> 1:04:01.720 Yeah, that's wish you were about to have here. We're like, 1:04:01.920 --> 1:04:03.680 we're gonna get our first traps over a congress but 1:04:03.840 --> 1:04:08.360 she's absolutely dog shit like terrible ziists, Like yeah, now. 1:04:08.400 --> 1:04:12.640 They were night to work with, they consistently. I think 1:04:12.640 --> 1:04:16.040 they were just there to like waste her fucking time, 1:04:16.880 --> 1:04:19.080 like you would have a meeting with them. It should 1:04:19.120 --> 1:04:23.080 so should we like pass this legislation saying that you 1:04:23.160 --> 1:04:27.160 can have like no gender on your voter ready, And 1:04:27.320 --> 1:04:30.280 that took the whole six years Jesus Christ, And I 1:04:30.320 --> 1:04:33.000 didn't even want it, like I haven't even changed my 1:04:33.040 --> 1:04:35.800 legal thing, so like it's not my priority. But it 1:04:35.880 --> 1:04:38.480 was a lot of people's priorities, and they kind of 1:04:38.480 --> 1:04:42.880 wasted our whole community's time. But even that was not enough. 1:04:42.920 --> 1:04:46.400 I think Chama just didn't want headlines, Like she was 1:04:46.560 --> 1:04:50.160 content for others, other people to handle the quote unquote debate. 1:04:50.880 --> 1:04:52.760 She didn't want anything to do with it because she 1:04:52.960 --> 1:04:56.760 it only cost her. Like the reason she defended some 1:04:56.920 --> 1:04:59.600 terms is that some of them were like loyal to her, 1:05:00.400 --> 1:05:03.360 and that's what she wanted. She wanted loyalty because she 1:05:03.400 --> 1:05:07.280 needed party loyalty to like have a tight grip on 1:05:07.440 --> 1:05:11.080 Morena because what she knew she could win pretty easily. 1:05:11.120 --> 1:05:13.800 She didn't need to appeal to the right or the 1:05:13.840 --> 1:05:17.240 center right and good for her, Like I'm an antil electoralist, 1:05:17.280 --> 1:05:20.840 but like electoralist should not fucking listen to suburban moms, 1:05:20.880 --> 1:05:23.680 Like who gives a shit? Yeah, going more to the 1:05:23.800 --> 1:05:27.000 left is, to a certain extent, is better electorally. Like 1:05:28.200 --> 1:05:30.520 just look at the numbers between Paris and buy them. 1:05:30.600 --> 1:05:33.080 And it's just vibes. It's not even like real policy, 1:05:33.640 --> 1:05:35.840 but just the vibes. Like you don't need you don't 1:05:35.880 --> 1:05:38.400 need to listen to pant voters because they're pant voters. 1:05:38.640 --> 1:05:41.520 They're not gonna vote for Morena. And like the right 1:05:41.600 --> 1:05:44.760 here in Mexico is really weird because like they have 1:05:44.920 --> 1:05:49.280 this really like neo liberal view, but their culture is 1:05:49.400 --> 1:05:52.720 so aristocratic. It's kind of like what if them's were 1:05:52.800 --> 1:05:57.560 like very stories, Like because they they hate for people, 1:05:57.720 --> 1:06:01.040 not like Republicans hate for people, like because they also 1:06:01.040 --> 1:06:05.240 pretend to be Panistas, don't They lost half because Shane 1:06:05.240 --> 1:06:08.200 Bawn really took hold of Morena structure and mobilized it 1:06:08.240 --> 1:06:11.160 to vote in a way that was unprecedented, even more 1:06:11.200 --> 1:06:14.760 than Amblos's vote. And because like Panista just couldn't shut 1:06:14.840 --> 1:06:17.680 up about how racist they are. They were just constantly 1:06:17.720 --> 1:06:21.640 saying the most horrible shit about Morena voters. And there 1:06:21.640 --> 1:06:24.720 were campaigns by saying go vote because they thought that 1:06:24.840 --> 1:06:27.360 like Amlo is like a dictator, because they really think 1:06:27.360 --> 1:06:30.120 that everyone is addicted. Everyone that's to the left of 1:06:30.280 --> 1:06:33.200 Mussolini is a dictator and almost a dictator. So go 1:06:33.240 --> 1:06:36.800 out and vote. They thought, like citizen participation is gonna 1:06:36.880 --> 1:06:39.840 destroy the Amblo regime from We're gonna be back to 1:06:39.880 --> 1:06:48.800 Mexico instead of being not and so. But the thing is, 1:06:49.040 --> 1:06:51.800 when you send most of the population to vote, they're 1:06:51.840 --> 1:06:57.000 not gonna vote for like the most repugnant, classiest people ever. 1:06:57.720 --> 1:07:00.800 And the candidate they chose was not a candidate like 1:07:00.840 --> 1:07:04.880 such a Galavis was an indigenous woman. Like they thought 1:07:04.920 --> 1:07:08.320 they were gonna outflank shame and with that, but they 1:07:08.320 --> 1:07:13.040 didn't like she success such a tool. She's not far right. 1:07:13.640 --> 1:07:15.560 She used to be in Perade, which was also an 1:07:15.800 --> 1:07:18.680 um lost party, but she was part of like when 1:07:18.840 --> 1:07:21.160 when Pang got into power in two thousands, she was 1:07:21.720 --> 1:07:24.880 the one in charge of the negotiation with the Elene 1:07:25.040 --> 1:07:26.720 and she betrayed the Sapatistas. 1:07:27.080 --> 1:07:27.840 Jesus Christ. 1:07:28.120 --> 1:07:31.800 She was not gonna get an indigenous vote like so 1:07:32.080 --> 1:07:33.800 this is the first time the right does this right, 1:07:33.960 --> 1:07:36.800 like Pan did the fucking classic damn thing of like 1:07:37.200 --> 1:07:40.120 offering a wired down version of the the other candidate, 1:07:40.360 --> 1:07:43.760 and they lost enormously and a lot of turfs. To 1:07:43.760 --> 1:07:45.439 get back to the topic, a lot of ters beat 1:07:45.680 --> 1:07:49.120 on both of them. They were really hedging. They wanted 1:07:49.160 --> 1:07:54.120 to be especially more institutional terms. They said, as long 1:07:54.160 --> 1:07:56.080 as we get a women president, we're gonna be cool. 1:07:56.120 --> 1:07:56.320 Yeah. 1:07:56.360 --> 1:07:57.640 That like backfired on them. 1:07:57.920 --> 1:08:00.280 Yeah, oh yeah, like Shambah, Like I said, what she 1:08:00.320 --> 1:08:03.120 cares about is loyalty. She didn't care about broad fence 1:08:03.160 --> 1:08:06.160 because she believed in them, just like she didn't care 1:08:06.160 --> 1:08:08.920 about trans people because she believed in us. She wanted 1:08:08.960 --> 1:08:13.400 loyal like loyal dogs. And if you are hedging your beds, 1:08:13.560 --> 1:08:17.240 yeah you and she wins with sixty percent, you're not 1:08:17.280 --> 1:08:18.960 going to see a single cent from the arms. 1:08:19.040 --> 1:08:19.240 Yeah. 1:08:19.520 --> 1:08:21.160 She kind of Okay, this is like, this is an 1:08:21.200 --> 1:08:23.880 absolutely deranged comparison. But she kind of reminds me of 1:08:23.920 --> 1:08:26.559 jijiin Ping in the way that like the way the 1:08:26.560 --> 1:08:28.920 way that Chijinping does politics is by. 1:08:29.360 --> 1:08:32.680 Every single momenta geopolitics, not just fainted. When you say that, 1:08:32.760 --> 1:08:34.280 she's a lot. 1:08:33.720 --> 1:08:37.759 Of the same no, because like Chijin Ping's like political 1:08:37.800 --> 1:08:40.479 style is sort of you know, he's been he's been 1:08:40.560 --> 1:08:43.759 very very good at like like centralizing the bureaucracy around 1:08:43.800 --> 1:08:47.000 him and sort of like neutralizing social movement. And this 1:08:47.000 --> 1:08:49.759 has been a classic like a sort of long range 1:08:50.320 --> 1:08:53.120 like post culture revolution like Chinese companies party thing of 1:08:53.200 --> 1:08:54.679 like we need to make sure there's not treat movements 1:08:54.720 --> 1:08:57.320 we need to sort of neutralize. Yeah, it's also amusing, 1:08:57.360 --> 1:08:59.439 you know, yeah, but it's also like you know, Jiji 1:08:59.520 --> 1:09:03.720 Ping sort of very much is also like a loyalty guy, right, 1:09:03.880 --> 1:09:05.880 He's like, you know, he he will he will sort 1:09:05.880 --> 1:09:08.080 of set up antic corruption things like per people who 1:09:08.120 --> 1:09:10.040 are like aren't loyal to him, because that's you know, 1:09:10.120 --> 1:09:12.040 that's that's the way that this kind of like centralizing 1:09:12.080 --> 1:09:14.680 politics works, and it's it's church is really interesting that 1:09:14.760 --> 1:09:15.680 like we're seeing. 1:09:15.400 --> 1:09:18.519 This with we're saying this with the TERFs. 1:09:18.560 --> 1:09:21.360 Route was like, well, you guys, like I'm sorry, you 1:09:21.400 --> 1:09:24.160 guys weren't fucking loyal enough. So like each ship you're 1:09:24.200 --> 1:09:27.520 gonna get get ed corruption campaigned. 1:09:28.320 --> 1:09:31.080 There's people that we proted that are super close to 1:09:31.120 --> 1:09:34.360 shameebelnd that we were really scared would get government positions 1:09:34.360 --> 1:09:37.439 and we're TERFs. They didn't get shipped. There's no like 1:09:37.520 --> 1:09:41.240 trans legislature, but there's also no terf legislators. Yeah, there's 1:09:41.280 --> 1:09:43.040 a world where that could have happened that we would 1:09:43.040 --> 1:09:46.439 have been fucked. I think without our protests, like not 1:09:46.560 --> 1:09:50.320 just the ones we organized from my collective, the rather 1:09:50.400 --> 1:09:54.040 decidence that we were focused on some of the closest 1:09:54.080 --> 1:09:57.040 to Shamebelin but like every transperson knew that like this 1:09:57.280 --> 1:10:00.400 was something real that and we kind of to stop 1:10:00.400 --> 1:10:03.320 to it. But and they don't been a stalemate because again, 1:10:03.400 --> 1:10:06.840 what Shimun did was defend her loyal terms and she 1:10:06.960 --> 1:10:10.559 moved them to positions outside of the spotlight honestly more 1:10:10.560 --> 1:10:14.320 suited to their to their italients. Like her TERFs were 1:10:14.880 --> 1:10:17.000 not really charismatic. She was trying to set them up 1:10:17.160 --> 1:10:20.920 like as influencers and like they just had theirs. 1:10:21.040 --> 1:10:24.640 There's no juice at all, is a classic Jesus, like 1:10:24.680 --> 1:10:27.280 just being the most juiceless motherfuckers and no planet. 1:10:27.240 --> 1:10:32.000 Absolutely and like really in concuring politics, yeah, because like 1:10:32.000 --> 1:10:34.280 they again they were they were kind of like they're 1:10:35.000 --> 1:10:39.679 more like lefty in discourse. They were very nationalists obviously, 1:10:39.800 --> 1:10:42.680 but also like they were hyping how feminist she was 1:10:42.760 --> 1:10:47.000 and like, oh, we're gonna confront American imperialism and while 1:10:47.040 --> 1:10:50.960 at the same time like being obsessed with like British TERFs, 1:10:51.040 --> 1:10:54.719 so like that it was really contradictory. So Moina calls 1:10:54.800 --> 1:10:59.600 their movement like the forty the fourth Transformation, which is like, 1:10:59.800 --> 1:11:01.720 just I won't even get into it. It's just such 1:11:01.720 --> 1:11:02.640 a fucking bizarre thing. 1:11:03.439 --> 1:11:06.120 Has a third transformation or something? Was he also doing 1:11:06.160 --> 1:11:07.040 the fourth Transformation? 1:11:07.520 --> 1:11:11.200 It's like no, no, it's like the Independence when we 1:11:11.280 --> 1:11:14.400 kicked Francis ass and then revolution. Those are the three 1:11:14.880 --> 1:11:17.720 and then and then the fourth is him right, like 1:11:17.800 --> 1:11:23.799 he's saying like I'm I'm Benitaquaras reborn and uh yeah, cringe, 1:11:23.840 --> 1:11:26.519 but like it's stuck. Honestly, I use it because like 1:11:26.600 --> 1:11:29.040 it's such a good shorthanded because morena is so large, 1:11:29.479 --> 1:11:32.519 such such a big word, and it's also cringe because 1:11:32.560 --> 1:11:39.000 like morena, which means morena means like brown skin, so 1:11:39.280 --> 1:11:43.320 and also like becon morena, which is like Mexico's virgin mary, 1:11:44.040 --> 1:11:47.519 so very creene. Even for quarter is even less cringe. 1:11:47.560 --> 1:11:49.840 So yeah, sure, whatever, but like one of the most 1:11:49.840 --> 1:11:52.639 famous Mexican Mexican feminists started calling them the Quadra. 1:11:53.120 --> 1:11:56.920 Oh my god, that stocks it's really I fucking look 1:11:57.000 --> 1:11:57.200 like it. 1:11:57.840 --> 1:12:00.320 So that stuck. But basically the quarter there is not 1:12:00.560 --> 1:12:03.080 out of power. Like the most ambitious ones and the 1:12:03.120 --> 1:12:06.160 most purely TERFs got quick kicked out, and the loyal 1:12:06.240 --> 1:12:09.080 dogs got sent to do like other jobs. Like they're 1:12:09.120 --> 1:12:12.639 now talking to academics about like green progressive socialism and shit, 1:12:12.720 --> 1:12:15.960 Like they're just doing talksing like with like eighty year 1:12:16.000 --> 1:12:19.040 old tenured professors and like that is still real skin. 1:12:19.120 --> 1:12:22.400 There's we're still watching them. But I think Shimun told them, 1:12:22.479 --> 1:12:24.400 like I'm gonna protect you, but you need to shut 1:12:24.400 --> 1:12:26.719 the fuck up. You better not say the word rands 1:12:26.800 --> 1:12:30.439 for six years, go go knots afterwards. But you're gonna 1:12:30.439 --> 1:12:33.640 have a job and you're gonna have a possibility of 1:12:33.680 --> 1:12:36.880 returning and that I'm not gonna help you. That's on you, 1:12:37.400 --> 1:12:40.160 and like, honestly, at least that's a fair playing field. 1:12:40.200 --> 1:12:41.479 I'll take it. I'll fucking take it. 1:12:41.600 --> 1:12:44.200 So yeah, I guess like the state of things seems 1:12:44.240 --> 1:12:47.880 to be that the deal is we're just gonna take 1:12:48.840 --> 1:12:51.599 like trans people as a political issue off the table 1:12:52.200 --> 1:12:54.360 for Yeah, what I have many years. 1:12:54.439 --> 1:12:57.360 Well, I think we're we're gonna she's gonna let like 1:12:57.600 --> 1:13:01.800 states handle it, like a trans law passes in a state. 1:13:02.160 --> 1:13:04.759 She's gonna let it. And I don't think anti trans 1:13:04.840 --> 1:13:07.479 laws are gonna have a good time interesting trying to 1:13:07.479 --> 1:13:11.519 pass because the right age ship. Yeah, they really thought 1:13:11.520 --> 1:13:15.320 they were gonna at least have a competitive edge, and 1:13:15.720 --> 1:13:18.800 no one voted. And again like there's a lot of 1:13:18.840 --> 1:13:21.840 Turfs that were more aligned with the far right, but 1:13:22.400 --> 1:13:25.960 they were not acting like it. The rhetoric didn't look 1:13:26.240 --> 1:13:28.760 until a couple of months ago, like the rhetoric that 1:13:28.920 --> 1:13:34.080 Britain or the US turfs have both types of US 1:13:34.160 --> 1:13:36.639 turf that I think there's we have every single type 1:13:36.680 --> 1:13:38.439 of derf here in Mexico. If you can think of 1:13:38.800 --> 1:13:41.280 a type of trf, we have it. I think Britain 1:13:41.360 --> 1:13:44.320 is mostly wine moms and the US is both angio 1:13:44.439 --> 1:13:48.960 freaks and like hippie where those like ex anarchists, the 1:13:49.120 --> 1:13:50.840 brain resistance types right like. 1:13:50.880 --> 1:13:52.840 Yeah, well I need to draw the light, you're damn it. 1:13:52.960 --> 1:13:55.800 But the decree resistance people were never anarchists. They were 1:13:55.800 --> 1:13:59.439 always they were always weird primitivist, but like vague like 1:13:59.560 --> 1:14:00.800 vanguar is primitivists. 1:14:01.360 --> 1:14:05.400 Yeah, I know. I love that article by Julie who 1:14:05.560 --> 1:14:08.360 accompanied me in less episode about someone fining a hot 1:14:08.400 --> 1:14:12.160 dog and it fucking rules. But yeah, right, like we 1:14:12.320 --> 1:14:14.840 had that, Like we even have like a deep rear 1:14:14.920 --> 1:14:18.120 system to Mexico thing going on for like a couple 1:14:18.120 --> 1:14:22.519 of years. So Mexican terms here that align themselves with 1:14:22.600 --> 1:14:25.439 the far right are gonna see both less resources because 1:14:25.439 --> 1:14:29.160 the far right is healing some Bruce Eagles, so they're riding, 1:14:29.160 --> 1:14:32.200 aren't gonna have to go full fascist, which oh. 1:14:32.200 --> 1:14:35.559 They will, Yeah, many such cases. 1:14:36.320 --> 1:14:39.320 Yeah, they can no longer get money from like your 1:14:39.439 --> 1:14:45.960 center right, like respectable democracy people who are basically are 1:14:46.040 --> 1:14:48.960 just right. They don't they They spend most of their 1:14:48.960 --> 1:14:52.840 time like just complaining how like Maduro and Amlow and 1:14:53.439 --> 1:14:56.240 like treating like everyone's the same thing, because the only 1:14:56.280 --> 1:14:59.080 thing they want is like just they want new liberalism 1:14:59.200 --> 1:15:02.400 and I'm tired of we have new liberalism. Yeah, like 1:15:02.680 --> 1:15:05.320 my I is just newly realism with a little bit 1:15:05.320 --> 1:15:09.759 of just enough like welfare state to like keep everything 1:15:09.800 --> 1:15:12.639 from blowing up. So yeah, this that's the case here. 1:15:13.000 --> 1:15:15.519 They ate ship. They don't have money, so they either 1:15:15.520 --> 1:15:18.840 have to find local fascists with which they have or 1:15:19.479 --> 1:15:23.639 they have to appeal to Brits with things like the 1:15:23.680 --> 1:15:25.000 boxing scandal. 1:15:25.400 --> 1:15:28.240 Yeah, and that sort of brings us full circle to like, 1:15:28.280 --> 1:15:31.240 I guess literally the present day, as in like the 1:15:31.320 --> 1:15:35.240 time this is being recorded, where their big attempts to 1:15:35.439 --> 1:15:38.880 like generate a bunch of revenue for themselves and like 1:15:39.080 --> 1:15:42.479 bring themselves back into the spotlight has kind of blown 1:15:42.560 --> 1:15:43.480 up with their faces. 1:15:44.000 --> 1:15:47.280 Yeah, and listen. One of the few good parts of 1:15:47.400 --> 1:15:51.720 like Moderna's co option of feminism is that some previously, 1:15:52.080 --> 1:15:55.200 like I don't want to say controversial, but like there 1:15:55.200 --> 1:15:58.040 were really a lot of campaigns to try to remove 1:15:58.080 --> 1:16:03.160 prestige from any any prominent trans inclusive feminists in Mexico, 1:16:03.640 --> 1:16:08.920 like Mexican academia and Mexican like high feminism really started 1:16:08.960 --> 1:16:12.799 to go full Wratham in twenty sixteen, and it started 1:16:12.800 --> 1:16:16.880 by trying to attack any single prestigious feminist that was 1:16:16.960 --> 1:16:20.679 not a TERRF. Chief amongst them is Marta Lamas, who 1:16:20.960 --> 1:16:25.599 I love her. She's extremely live, but like I still 1:16:25.640 --> 1:16:28.720 love her because she she comes from a history of 1:16:28.800 --> 1:16:32.880 like not quite radical but not quite radical Mexican academia 1:16:32.960 --> 1:16:37.920 that like says she like reformist in method radical in objectives. 1:16:39.200 --> 1:16:41.440 Sure, sure, but she at least. 1:16:41.120 --> 1:16:43.640 Thinks it's true and lives by it. And she is 1:16:44.080 --> 1:16:45.920 if you want to read stuff by her. She has 1:16:46.040 --> 1:16:49.040 one of the best accounts of the history of sex 1:16:49.120 --> 1:16:52.240 work in Mexico Food Water and a nache a fantastic book, 1:16:52.360 --> 1:16:53.200 fully recommended. 1:16:53.520 --> 1:16:55.679 Yeah, we'll put a link to that in the description. 1:16:56.200 --> 1:16:59.719 Yeah, so she got into like the mayor of Mexico 1:16:59.760 --> 1:17:03.880 City is a team. She is now in Clara Brugada's team, 1:17:03.880 --> 1:17:05.920 and Clara is like the front runner for the next 1:17:06.000 --> 1:17:11.640 presidential candidate. She is not Chamberin's friend. So my suspicion 1:17:11.880 --> 1:17:15.280 is that Shaman is keeping her terms on reserve to 1:17:15.320 --> 1:17:18.599 push back against Clara. Oh interesting to find another female 1:17:18.640 --> 1:17:22.439 candidate and proper up as the feminist successor to Claudia 1:17:23.080 --> 1:17:26.800 or a male candidate like she needs like feminists on 1:17:26.880 --> 1:17:31.160 her side on reserve to combat like Clara. Who Clara Again, 1:17:31.320 --> 1:17:34.400 it's further to live than Chamblain and she doesn't come 1:17:34.439 --> 1:17:37.479 from an academic background. She comes from a grassroots urban 1:17:37.600 --> 1:17:41.679 movement background in the like thehood of Mexico City, in turn, 1:17:41.960 --> 1:17:47.640 Brugada needs more institutional and like legit support. And Marta Lamas, 1:17:47.680 --> 1:17:51.080 while she was controversial because of TERFs smearing her, but 1:17:51.200 --> 1:17:54.200 she is Marta Fokin Lamas and she is white as hell. 1:17:54.560 --> 1:17:57.479 So Clara got her in her team and now she 1:17:57.680 --> 1:18:02.240 gets to be the chief leftist feminists in Mexico because like, 1:18:02.400 --> 1:18:06.400 if Kaalia starts tucking too much about feminism, well she's 1:18:06.400 --> 1:18:08.920 a Google search away from like turf scandals. 1:18:09.240 --> 1:18:10.360 Yeah yeah. 1:18:10.439 --> 1:18:13.920 And Nata really pushed back against turf influence in Moena, 1:18:13.960 --> 1:18:15.960 which I'm really frank, like, if you're gonna be co 1:18:16.080 --> 1:18:19.240 opted this, that's the least amount of like allyship you 1:18:19.280 --> 1:18:19.920 need to do. 1:18:19.920 --> 1:18:22.800 All right, Yeah yeah, even push the turfs out from 1:18:22.840 --> 1:18:24.759 your like fucking mansion. 1:18:25.640 --> 1:18:28.240 We can push X to the to the left, Well, 1:18:28.280 --> 1:18:33.040 then do it. I people love saying they want to 1:18:33.040 --> 1:18:35.599 push politicians to the left, and then don't push push 1:18:35.680 --> 1:18:38.040 politicians to the left. They just want to lose the 1:18:38.080 --> 1:18:38.799 critical power. 1:18:38.960 --> 1:18:43.920 Yeah yeah. Is there anything else that you want to 1:18:43.920 --> 1:18:45.400 make sure we get you before we wrap up? 1:18:45.720 --> 1:18:50.040 I think wrapping up to the Readogs magazine. Keep an 1:18:50.040 --> 1:18:54.880 eye on like those kinds of places that are trying 1:18:54.880 --> 1:18:57.320 to connect things, because we already saw that this can 1:18:57.320 --> 1:19:00.479 spill over from Mexico or Brazil or Korea. I think 1:19:00.520 --> 1:19:01.920 Korea is gonna be bad. 1:19:02.280 --> 1:19:02.759 Yeah. 1:19:02.880 --> 1:19:06.200 Yeah, So the thing about Korea I haven't done much about. 1:19:06.520 --> 1:19:08.920 We probably will at some point cover this stuff in Korea. 1:19:09.240 --> 1:19:12.840 Korea is having a really really sort of unbelievable sort 1:19:12.840 --> 1:19:16.320 of anti feminist backlash. But this has also had the 1:19:16.640 --> 1:19:21.479 impact of like really empowering the rad fems. Yeah, and 1:19:21.960 --> 1:19:25.400 it's it's a complete catastrophe. 1:19:25.920 --> 1:19:26.600 Yeah. 1:19:27.120 --> 1:19:31.840 I would really advise against idealizing feminist movements elsewhere. Yeah, 1:19:32.400 --> 1:19:36.400 do your research. Don't just accept on face value that 1:19:36.680 --> 1:19:39.519 like a face you know from a third world country 1:19:39.760 --> 1:19:42.000 is gonna be like the voice of the Global South. 1:19:42.160 --> 1:19:46.320 That's just not fucking true. Like, if you hear a 1:19:46.360 --> 1:19:48.840 face of the Global South, it's probably because there's money 1:19:48.840 --> 1:19:51.880 behind it. Like, yeah, unless you're really deep and know 1:19:52.000 --> 1:19:54.920 your shit, the first thing that's gonna show up is 1:19:54.920 --> 1:19:58.519 gonna have money behind it. So be really careful with 1:19:58.600 --> 1:20:01.959 other feminist ones. I saw how people idealized Mexican feminism, 1:20:02.400 --> 1:20:06.280 not knowing just how deeply both infiltrated by the government 1:20:06.439 --> 1:20:10.759 and paid by fire red groups, and that really backfire, 1:20:10.920 --> 1:20:14.040 like one of the only survivors of right leaning but 1:20:14.560 --> 1:20:19.080 left presenting feminists that called Brujazma. Yeah, they're probably the 1:20:19.120 --> 1:20:21.960 only europe that's going to survive during the shameband presidence. 1:20:22.040 --> 1:20:23.200 Yeah, big turf group. 1:20:23.400 --> 1:20:26.479 Yeah, they never tried to get close to Shamba. But 1:20:26.600 --> 1:20:30.160 also they are they never dropped the mask fully and 1:20:30.200 --> 1:20:32.160 they're one of the biggest pushers of the name in anything, 1:20:32.920 --> 1:20:36.880 not the originators. Those are the more internationally connected, but 1:20:36.880 --> 1:20:38.439 they were the biggest pushers of it. They have the 1:20:38.439 --> 1:20:41.600 most followers. They really pushon narrative. They were featured in 1:20:41.640 --> 1:20:45.959 Times one hundred, like AARUSIONDA was Times one hundred from Mexico. 1:20:46.800 --> 1:20:50.599 So be really careful of who you think are supporting. Yeah, 1:20:50.640 --> 1:20:52.639 because this is going to be happening. I think it's 1:20:52.880 --> 1:20:54.720 It might be over for now in Mexico and we 1:20:55.200 --> 1:20:57.960 I think we didn't win, but maybe we can stop 1:20:57.960 --> 1:21:00.280 them from researching in five years or so, and then 1:21:00.360 --> 1:21:03.000 I think that would really steal the deal. But this 1:21:03.120 --> 1:21:06.040 is gonna be happening everywhere where. You're gonna see it 1:21:06.160 --> 1:21:10.439 a lot in like African feminist movements in South Southeast 1:21:10.479 --> 1:21:12.960 Asian feminist movements. You're gonna see it pop up all 1:21:12.960 --> 1:21:16.720 over the world. Take a lesson from Mexico and look 1:21:16.760 --> 1:21:19.800 for trans folks over there, ask them, Hey, is this 1:21:19.840 --> 1:21:20.360 person cool? 1:21:20.520 --> 1:21:21.559 Yeah, just the. 1:21:21.560 --> 1:21:24.880 Minimum, do the diligence before, like sharing gofundsman ship like 1:21:25.360 --> 1:21:28.280 a please for the love of God. Again, a dollar 1:21:28.360 --> 1:21:31.240 goes a long way here. So if feel like you 1:21:31.280 --> 1:21:33.600 give something that would barely cover rent for someone in 1:21:33.640 --> 1:21:37.960 the United States, that's enough to set up an organization here. Yeah, 1:21:38.000 --> 1:21:41.960 and really fuck local politics for years to come. So 1:21:42.360 --> 1:21:43.439 I don't know, Please be careful. 1:21:44.680 --> 1:21:45.080 Yeah. 1:21:45.360 --> 1:21:48.280 So if people want to find you and the stuff 1:21:48.280 --> 1:21:52.320 that you do that is not ship, where can they 1:21:52.320 --> 1:21:52.680 find you? 1:21:53.240 --> 1:21:59.720 Well, I'm on X everything app as a Flores And 1:22:00.360 --> 1:22:03.120 also I have a podcast called Fatista's Knkrema. It's a 1:22:03.200 --> 1:22:07.200 really good one in Spanish, trust me. And I'm also 1:22:07.240 --> 1:22:09.160 trying to launch a project that's gonna be like a 1:22:09.280 --> 1:22:13.280 sort of media watchdoggy thing. Again, we were working with 1:22:13.400 --> 1:22:17.880 like sense here, so it's gonna take a while. Yeah, 1:22:18.320 --> 1:22:19.640 keep an eye out if I don't know, if you 1:22:19.760 --> 1:22:23.519 if you wanna learn more stuff about Mexican like what's 1:22:23.560 --> 1:22:26.680 going on beyond, like either far right news like that 1:22:26.800 --> 1:22:29.760 saw Shambone in a photograph with a transflag and friked out, 1:22:30.240 --> 1:22:33.000 or just like people who take everything at face value 1:22:33.040 --> 1:22:35.120 and believe that Chambon is the second coming of Marx. 1:22:35.800 --> 1:22:38.599 So I don't know, I'll try to keep folks posted 1:22:38.720 --> 1:22:42.120 because it's complicated, Like, yeah, we it took us an 1:22:42.120 --> 1:22:44.479 hour to talk about even just one topic. 1:22:45.360 --> 1:22:49.679 Yeah, things complicated. Who who could possibly have guessed that? 1:22:50.000 --> 1:22:53.120 You know, it's it's difficult to understand, very comflue to 1:22:53.120 --> 1:22:54.280 political configurations. 1:22:54.800 --> 1:22:58.400 Yeah. So yeah, for now I'm only on xicus and 1:22:58.560 --> 1:23:03.120 YouTube again for I do I stream on Twitch. Honestly, 1:23:03.360 --> 1:23:06.160 this is gonna sound maybe you're gonna gonna call this, 1:23:06.240 --> 1:23:11.559 but I really admire y'all, Like I honestly, I both 1:23:11.640 --> 1:23:16.200 that are a little bit of envy. Uh. I wish 1:23:16.320 --> 1:23:19.000 there's not a really an ecosystem of like content creation 1:23:19.280 --> 1:23:23.160 or or news from a leftist perspective here. Like most 1:23:23.200 --> 1:23:25.439 of the people again, a lot of them also got 1:23:25.439 --> 1:23:28.000 co opted. A lot of friends I had in like 1:23:28.120 --> 1:23:33.000 independent leftists publishing and news in Mexico are now like 1:23:33.200 --> 1:23:36.120 full on like just modern spokespeople, or they went insane 1:23:36.160 --> 1:23:38.360 and anti vax and like now they're far right. 1:23:38.520 --> 1:23:44.400 Well, yeah, many such cases. Yeah, so this is to 1:23:44.479 --> 1:23:47.120 take it out here. You can find us in the places, 1:23:47.200 --> 1:23:50.280 and until then I defeat your local TERFs. 1:23:50.720 --> 1:23:52.679 Yeah, and don't become gumnor. 1:24:17.320 --> 1:24:20.400 Hi everyone, and welcome to the show. It's just James 1:24:20.439 --> 1:24:23.400 today and I'm joined by doctor Sink. Doctor Sink's an 1:24:23.520 --> 1:24:27.080 educator based in California, and we're talking today about the 1:24:27.160 --> 1:24:31.559 recent attempted assassination of a Sikh activist and this now 1:24:31.800 --> 1:24:35.679 years long tendency of India to attempt to assassinate sick 1:24:35.760 --> 1:24:38.320 activists in the United States and in Canada and probably 1:24:38.320 --> 1:24:39.120 not the place is too. 1:24:39.600 --> 1:24:40.920 Welcome to the show, dot to Sink. 1:24:40.880 --> 1:24:42.479 All right, thank you, thank you for having me. Yeah, 1:24:42.520 --> 1:24:43.080 you're welcome. 1:24:43.479 --> 1:24:46.560 And so I think people listening to this for the 1:24:46.600 --> 1:24:49.839 first time might not be super familiar with the situation 1:24:49.960 --> 1:24:53.320 in India and also like what Kalistan is and what 1:24:53.360 --> 1:24:54.840 that means. So I want to get into both of 1:24:54.880 --> 1:24:58.120 those things to start with. I think could you maybe 1:24:58.320 --> 1:25:01.640 explain kalistan, Explain it means. Maybe people have seen this 1:25:01.760 --> 1:25:04.800 yellow and green flag or heard the word, but they 1:25:04.840 --> 1:25:05.840 might not know what it means. 1:25:06.320 --> 1:25:07.800 So could you break that down for US. 1:25:07.760 --> 1:25:11.799 Sure, sure. So Kalistan is essentially a freedom of liberation 1:25:11.960 --> 1:25:16.839 movement that starts in Punjab, so it's north of India, 1:25:17.280 --> 1:25:21.240 and Punjab is a region that is populated primarily of 1:25:21.360 --> 1:25:26.000 six though the population numbers are changing, and so Kalistan 1:25:26.080 --> 1:25:31.000 is essentially sovereignty freedom, it's its own homeland, so it's 1:25:31.080 --> 1:25:35.080 labeled as the Sick Homeland. However, there will be many 1:25:35.120 --> 1:25:39.760 different ethnicities, many different people of religious backgrounds in Kalaistan, 1:25:39.840 --> 1:25:43.439 so it is an ongoing movement. The Indian state of course, 1:25:43.439 --> 1:25:45.479 it's not in their best interest to lose a chunk 1:25:45.520 --> 1:25:48.479 of land, and to lose especially a prosperous chunk of land, 1:25:48.800 --> 1:25:52.240 so they're doing everything in their power to silence those 1:25:52.280 --> 1:25:54.599 that speak about it, to oppress the people there so 1:25:54.640 --> 1:25:57.760 that they don't have enough willpower to fight back. So 1:25:58.120 --> 1:26:00.840 that's a very very brief introduction to it. 1:26:01.240 --> 1:26:04.080 Yeah, so let's zoom out a little bit and talk 1:26:04.120 --> 1:26:06.519 about the history of sick people in India and then 1:26:06.560 --> 1:26:10.200 the recent tendency with mody to sort of define Hinduism 1:26:10.240 --> 1:26:12.559 and Indianism as the same thing. And you can't be 1:26:12.600 --> 1:26:15.240 one without being the other. So maybe we can start 1:26:15.240 --> 1:26:18.040 with that history of sick people within India. We can 1:26:18.080 --> 1:26:19.640 pick it up, like I guess wherever you want. You 1:26:19.640 --> 1:26:22.840 can start in nineteen thirties, or we can start a 1:26:22.840 --> 1:26:23.439 little bit later. 1:26:24.240 --> 1:26:27.320 Yeah, well, actually I think it's important to start even 1:26:27.360 --> 1:26:30.519 earlier than that. The origins of Six are in the 1:26:30.560 --> 1:26:35.120 region our faith was started in fourteen sixty nine Gift, 1:26:35.560 --> 1:26:40.000 which is in now the Pakistan region. So that's where 1:26:40.000 --> 1:26:44.400 our faith was started, and our people have essentially been 1:26:44.400 --> 1:26:47.840 fighting an existential battle since the faith was formed. So 1:26:48.360 --> 1:26:53.000 different rulers of the time, different kingdoms in that area 1:26:53.400 --> 1:26:56.360 would attempt to kind of wipe Six out, and Six 1:26:56.400 --> 1:26:59.720 have always been fighting back and fighting for their existence. 1:27:00.200 --> 1:27:03.360 So a small example of this is in seventeen thirty 1:27:03.400 --> 1:27:07.960 eight and up until the seventeen seventies, there was mass 1:27:08.240 --> 1:27:11.439 water of six and we're talking thousands killed on a 1:27:11.479 --> 1:27:15.200 single day period we referred as the Vudine shot Lugata, 1:27:15.560 --> 1:27:19.760 which is basically in our history, the largest population of 1:27:19.800 --> 1:27:23.479 six decimated in a single day was in seventeen thirty eight. 1:27:23.520 --> 1:27:26.720 In seventeen seventies as well, so we went from that 1:27:26.800 --> 1:27:31.240 circumstance to essentially forming our own kingdom, forming our own 1:27:31.240 --> 1:27:36.280 country in seventeen ninety nine was formally established under Mahda 1:27:36.360 --> 1:27:40.559 Dada Djidsing, though the six were operating independently even before 1:27:40.640 --> 1:27:43.439 that and kind of governing their own regions. But in 1:27:43.479 --> 1:27:46.479 seventeen ninety nine the Sick Confederacy kind of joined and 1:27:46.600 --> 1:27:50.559 became what is now known as the region of Punjab. 1:27:51.240 --> 1:27:55.240 So the British came to colonize. They colonized India relatively 1:27:55.320 --> 1:27:59.240 quickly after arriving, and then when they approached the Sikh Kingdom, 1:27:59.320 --> 1:28:01.760 not only could they penetrated, they had to sign a 1:28:01.800 --> 1:28:04.559 treaty with Mahaa Rdit Singh, who was the ruler of 1:28:04.560 --> 1:28:07.280 Punjab at the time, and saying that we won't cross 1:28:07.320 --> 1:28:09.360 to this side of this river and you don't cross. 1:28:09.120 --> 1:28:09.599 To the seven. 1:28:09.920 --> 1:28:13.000 So they essentially signed a treaty saying we can coexist, 1:28:13.040 --> 1:28:15.439 but we won't come to your side because they feared 1:28:15.479 --> 1:28:19.639 the repercussions of what that would lead to. And then slowly, 1:28:19.960 --> 1:28:24.160 as they have with many empires, they have kind of infiltrated. 1:28:24.280 --> 1:28:31.200 They paid folks, they sign traders, and they broke down 1:28:31.200 --> 1:28:35.200 the annexed Punjab in eighteen forty nine. So we have 1:28:35.280 --> 1:28:39.120 a period of colonization from eighteen forty nine, officially till 1:28:39.320 --> 1:28:43.040 nineteen forty seven, and in nineteen forty seven the Radcliffe 1:28:43.080 --> 1:28:47.000 line is drawn. That is where Pakistan and now what 1:28:47.120 --> 1:28:49.400 we see as Pakistan and now India is what we 1:28:49.439 --> 1:28:52.559 see as India, though before it was all together and 1:28:52.600 --> 1:28:56.040 a large region of it was Punjab. When nineteen forty 1:28:56.080 --> 1:28:59.840 seven what Indian would refer to as independence, though it 1:28:59.880 --> 1:29:03.320 was actually a transfer of power. The gandhis of the 1:29:03.400 --> 1:29:07.120 time are kind of credited with the independence movement, but 1:29:07.320 --> 1:29:10.280 they were working with the British for decades before that. 1:29:10.680 --> 1:29:13.120 They kind of knew that they would receive the reins 1:29:13.120 --> 1:29:16.280 once the British left the region, So truly it wasn't 1:29:16.439 --> 1:29:18.960 independence movement. It was a transfer of power from the 1:29:18.960 --> 1:29:22.879 British to them. So in nineteen forty seven, by creating 1:29:23.000 --> 1:29:26.679 kind of relationships through some false promises, the Hindu leaders 1:29:26.720 --> 1:29:31.120 of the time essentially guaranteed six that you guys know 1:29:31.200 --> 1:29:33.559 how to fight for your rights if we were ever 1:29:33.600 --> 1:29:36.200 to infringe upon them, you guys are allowed to be 1:29:36.280 --> 1:29:39.080 in the Punjab region, it's essentially going to be autonomous. 1:29:39.320 --> 1:29:44.120 So after independence, essentially they immediately renagged on all of 1:29:44.160 --> 1:29:48.679 their previous assurances and six have essentially kind of been 1:29:48.720 --> 1:29:53.120 fighting an independence movement since nineteen forty seven. They were 1:29:53.160 --> 1:29:56.280 not allowed to speak their language. There was a Punjabi 1:29:56.280 --> 1:29:59.200 suba movement in nineteen fifty five where they even had 1:29:59.240 --> 1:30:02.120 to fight for their native language to be able to 1:30:02.120 --> 1:30:06.519 speak their native language in their region. And so now 1:30:07.080 --> 1:30:11.679 moving many iterations later, what we see is Modi kind 1:30:11.720 --> 1:30:14.400 of the I wouldn't say final form because we haven't 1:30:14.479 --> 1:30:17.799 lived to the end yet, but he is the latest 1:30:17.840 --> 1:30:22.320 iteration of Hindu nationalism, of what extremism looks like. So 1:30:23.120 --> 1:30:27.160 he has now taken the work of the gandhis and 1:30:27.280 --> 1:30:29.519 all of the prime ministers of India and kind of 1:30:29.520 --> 1:30:32.720 the Indian deep state agenda and now transformed it to 1:30:32.800 --> 1:30:36.000 saying that we want to be a nation of one language, 1:30:36.040 --> 1:30:39.000 of one religion, of one kind of people, and there's 1:30:39.080 --> 1:30:41.599 really no space for minorities in there, though they won't 1:30:41.640 --> 1:30:45.200 say it openly because they want to carry the moniker 1:30:45.240 --> 1:30:48.280 of the world's biggest democracy. They are not a secular nation. 1:30:48.760 --> 1:30:53.080 And under Modi, we've seen massacres. We've seen, you know, 1:30:53.280 --> 1:30:57.920 very genocidal violence which he himself allowed and which he 1:30:58.120 --> 1:31:01.040 was not even allowed to go into many Western countries 1:31:01.080 --> 1:31:05.559 because they held him accountable and responsible for leading the 1:31:05.560 --> 1:31:07.880 massacre of Muslims in two thousand and two of a job. 1:31:08.200 --> 1:31:11.200 But once he became Prime minister, they kind of backed 1:31:11.200 --> 1:31:16.639 away from that stand and chose financial relationships. So today 1:31:16.640 --> 1:31:19.559 we are in a place where six being less than 1:31:19.560 --> 1:31:23.000 two percent of the population in India are continuing their 1:31:23.000 --> 1:31:28.320 struggle for liberation, and the Indian state kind of consistent 1:31:28.360 --> 1:31:31.840 with their agenda since nineteen forty seven, doesn't have room 1:31:32.040 --> 1:31:34.960 for that difference, doesn't have room not only to give 1:31:35.000 --> 1:31:38.439 them their rights, but liberation entirely. That's that's the next 1:31:38.479 --> 1:31:40.839 step beyond that. So that's where we are today. 1:31:41.280 --> 1:31:44.360 Yeah, there's a significant Sikh community, especially on the west 1:31:44.400 --> 1:31:48.720 coast of the USA, and I've met probably hundreds of 1:31:48.760 --> 1:31:52.040 sick people in the last year crossing the border for 1:31:52.080 --> 1:31:55.519 the reasons you've just outlined, and others, of course deciding 1:31:55.840 --> 1:31:58.680 the nearly all coming from India, right and Punjab, and 1:31:59.360 --> 1:32:02.400 they have told me some really terrible stories, right, some 1:32:02.439 --> 1:32:04.719 really upsetting things. I've heard from those of other people. 1:32:04.920 --> 1:32:08.880 It's not unique to them, but there's a significant sick 1:32:09.000 --> 1:32:12.599 population on the west coast of the US. And Canada too, 1:32:12.680 --> 1:32:15.280 So can you explain I know that sick people here 1:32:15.280 --> 1:32:17.680 have been organizing for Kalustan for some time. There was 1:32:17.760 --> 1:32:21.479 even like a vote recently ventstand correctly, So can you 1:32:21.520 --> 1:32:24.320 explain like that history of the Sick dy aspirin how 1:32:24.360 --> 1:32:27.960 they've been really important in getting the word out and advocating. 1:32:28.320 --> 1:32:31.719 First, Yeah, I'm glad we touched on migration. Actually, mass 1:32:31.720 --> 1:32:34.960 migration out of Punjab is not a natural phenomenon. It 1:32:35.080 --> 1:32:39.400 is the outcome of very genocidal violence. Yeah. And further 1:32:39.479 --> 1:32:44.519 than that, it's the continued violence and oppression through different ways. 1:32:44.720 --> 1:32:48.360 So one example is there's a strong drug nexus in 1:32:48.360 --> 1:32:52.440 that area and anyone who is distributing drugs is protected 1:32:52.479 --> 1:32:56.200 by the Indian state, whether through bribery, whether through their 1:32:56.240 --> 1:32:59.800 agenda in general of keeping Punjab kind of addicted and 1:33:00.000 --> 1:33:04.200 away from liberation, So that is one aspect of it. Further, 1:33:04.360 --> 1:33:08.280 bung Job for the listeners, Bungjob means the land of 1:33:08.320 --> 1:33:12.240 five rivers, Bunge means five and ob means water, so 1:33:12.720 --> 1:33:17.000 its name is literally created on river water and the 1:33:17.080 --> 1:33:20.639 Indian state has now taken those river waters diverted them 1:33:20.680 --> 1:33:24.959 to different states of India and Punjab gets no royalty 1:33:25.000 --> 1:33:28.120 for those as opposed to any other state of India. 1:33:28.240 --> 1:33:30.040 If they have a natural resource, they get to sell 1:33:30.080 --> 1:33:32.720 it and their state gets the benefit of that. So 1:33:32.800 --> 1:33:36.880 Punjab at this point has been giving trillions of gallons 1:33:36.920 --> 1:33:41.080 of water to different states for free, and Punjab is 1:33:41.400 --> 1:33:43.800 there's different numbers out there, but sixty to sixty five 1:33:43.840 --> 1:33:49.240 percent and agrarian society, so everyone is essentially farming. And 1:33:50.000 --> 1:33:52.280 what the farmers of Punjab are being forced to do 1:33:52.400 --> 1:33:57.479 is dig underground for water, even though they have natural 1:33:57.560 --> 1:34:00.679 river water that should be going through Punjab itself which 1:34:00.760 --> 1:34:04.639 they can redistribute. So there's a huge farmer suicide problem 1:34:04.760 --> 1:34:07.720 happening in Punjab because they are unable to get out 1:34:07.760 --> 1:34:11.639 of debt. They are viewing farming as an unprofitable kind 1:34:11.640 --> 1:34:14.320 of a dead end business as opposed to farming in 1:34:14.479 --> 1:34:17.759 many other places, so it's very profitable. They're sick farmers 1:34:17.760 --> 1:34:21.280 in California who are multi multimillionaires, so it's not an 1:34:21.360 --> 1:34:24.320 unprofitable business. However, the state has made it that way 1:34:24.760 --> 1:34:29.160 understanding that if we can cripple farming their water supply 1:34:29.240 --> 1:34:33.000 and get their next generation addicted to drugs, then they'll 1:34:33.000 --> 1:34:37.519 be forced. So the mass migration we see is not natural, 1:34:37.560 --> 1:34:40.360 it is the outcome of that. And I'm sorry, I 1:34:40.360 --> 1:34:42.400 think I forgot the second part of your question, something 1:34:42.439 --> 1:34:45.160 about six in the Western Yeah, No, that's. 1:34:45.080 --> 1:34:47.400 Okay, there's a really good explanation. It's really important. I 1:34:47.439 --> 1:34:49.599 think we should just take a little advertising break here, 1:34:59.439 --> 1:35:01.680 all right. Yeah, So the second part I wanted to 1:35:01.720 --> 1:35:06.280 ask about was the importance of this diaspora community in 1:35:06.360 --> 1:35:10.280 organizing for Kalistan. Right because in addition to all these 1:35:10.280 --> 1:35:13.160 Indian government policies that you've outlined that are having these 1:35:13.200 --> 1:35:16.639 impacts in Punjab, and like we shouldn't discount the climate 1:35:16.720 --> 1:35:19.479 change is also having impacts there right, absolutely across the 1:35:19.479 --> 1:35:22.760 whole indeed subcontinent. But in addition to that, right, there's 1:35:22.800 --> 1:35:26.799 a very powerful and developed Khalistan movement in the United 1:35:26.800 --> 1:35:29.519 States and in Canada that has been advocating for the 1:35:29.600 --> 1:35:33.720 issue and raising i think awareness, and that's what's been 1:35:33.840 --> 1:35:35.120 targeted now, right. 1:35:35.960 --> 1:35:39.519 Yeah, absolutely, because they understand that if you say that 1:35:39.560 --> 1:35:43.880 word Carlostan with in Punjab, the police is working with them, 1:35:44.120 --> 1:35:47.479 the judicial system is working with them. Every single facet 1:35:47.560 --> 1:35:52.760 of any organizational institution is working for them. So I mean, 1:35:53.040 --> 1:35:55.200 there's been many people that do mention it and they 1:35:55.400 --> 1:35:57.960 end up dead, they end up in jails, They you know, 1:35:58.040 --> 1:36:02.120 are silenced in one way or another. So despite that, though, 1:36:02.560 --> 1:36:06.000 still many more folks that believe in Coligistan in Punjab 1:36:06.080 --> 1:36:08.280 than they are anywhere else in the world, and they 1:36:08.320 --> 1:36:13.200 are willing to say it openly despite the consequence of that, 1:36:13.240 --> 1:36:17.160 which is essentially jail or death in the millions. So 1:36:17.760 --> 1:36:22.280 what happens is when six are a forced to migrate 1:36:22.320 --> 1:36:25.840 out or migrate out for any reason, they still hold 1:36:25.840 --> 1:36:28.519 those aspirations with them. They still remember the plight of 1:36:28.560 --> 1:36:32.719 their people in Punjab. So they have freedom of speech, 1:36:33.120 --> 1:36:36.400 which is what you should have in democracies, which they 1:36:36.439 --> 1:36:39.439 don't have in India. So when they have freedom of speech, 1:36:39.479 --> 1:36:43.200 they express those aspirations to the point where there are 1:36:43.280 --> 1:36:47.320 people being killed all over the world. We named Canada 1:36:47.360 --> 1:36:50.680 and the US, but there was an activist poisoned in 1:36:50.720 --> 1:36:54.240 the UK just last year. There's been folks killed in Pakistan, 1:36:54.280 --> 1:36:56.480 which is on the other side of the border for India, 1:36:56.640 --> 1:37:00.760 and they tried to assassinate sick in New York and 1:37:01.000 --> 1:37:03.120 as recently as a few days ago, they tried to 1:37:03.120 --> 1:37:06.360 asassinate a stick here in California. So, I mean, the 1:37:06.479 --> 1:37:09.960 movement is very much alive and it's on the up, 1:37:10.040 --> 1:37:14.439 and I think the Indian state understands this, but they're 1:37:14.479 --> 1:37:18.599 having a tough time kind of wrapping their head around 1:37:18.680 --> 1:37:23.280 how to silence folks outside of their borders. That's really 1:37:23.280 --> 1:37:26.720 where we are, because within their borders it's full on suppression. 1:37:26.800 --> 1:37:29.719 You can't say it. Folks within pajob When they leave 1:37:29.800 --> 1:37:33.479 Punjab and they come to different countries, their eyes kind 1:37:33.479 --> 1:37:36.600 of finally open as to why they were in the 1:37:36.720 --> 1:37:39.280 conditions they were in. It's almost like when you're in 1:37:39.280 --> 1:37:40.760 the middle of a storm. You don't know who you're 1:37:40.800 --> 1:37:42.880 in a storm, but when looking on the outside in 1:37:43.560 --> 1:37:48.040 you're seeing, hey, this is a very intentional and systematic 1:37:48.560 --> 1:37:52.120 genocide that is happening against our people. So that is 1:37:52.160 --> 1:37:55.720 one aspect of it. But it's becoming more organized, and 1:37:56.320 --> 1:38:00.840 you know, there's a referendum, there's intellectuals, there's differences happening, 1:38:00.920 --> 1:38:05.040 there's grats, roots organization and so fix have. The concept 1:38:05.120 --> 1:38:10.600 called chardvikola and Chardikaala is essentially ever rising spirits, is 1:38:10.640 --> 1:38:14.240 that no matter the dire conditions that you may be under, 1:38:14.800 --> 1:38:19.000 you still keep the hope for sovereignty and liberation alive. 1:38:19.120 --> 1:38:22.520 And we've seen that in our history where our population, 1:38:23.360 --> 1:38:26.600 due to the oppression and the massacres, dwindled down to 1:38:26.640 --> 1:38:30.040 the hundreds and they were living in jungles, and even 1:38:30.120 --> 1:38:34.000 then they would exit the jungles fight work to free 1:38:34.479 --> 1:38:37.920 those being captured by the muguls at the time, or 1:38:38.000 --> 1:38:41.760 the people in the region, and they would die fighting oftentimes. 1:38:41.960 --> 1:38:44.479 And so now we're in a position where there's you know, 1:38:44.560 --> 1:38:48.360 millions of us. We have no excuse. We keep the 1:38:48.439 --> 1:38:52.200 aspiration for sovereignty alive, and we see it kind of 1:38:52.280 --> 1:38:56.120 thriving in places where we're allowed to express ourselves. 1:38:56.520 --> 1:38:58.680 Yeah, so I think we should talk about this kind 1:38:58.720 --> 1:39:02.400 of transnational repression. It's not by any means unique to India. 1:39:02.400 --> 1:39:04.800 I mean, famously Russia loves to do this too, right, 1:39:04.920 --> 1:39:07.080 But let's talk about some of these incidents. There was 1:39:07.320 --> 1:39:11.040 a foiled assassination attempt in November of last year, right 1:39:11.040 --> 1:39:15.439 that the DOJ arrested in India national for There was 1:39:15.560 --> 1:39:20.400 a successful assassination in Canada, and an attempted assassination just 1:39:20.439 --> 1:39:22.760 this week, as you say, in northern California. 1:39:23.479 --> 1:39:27.840 Yeah, I mean transnational repression is not a new phenomenon, 1:39:28.120 --> 1:39:31.760 But what we'd like to do is actually have it 1:39:31.920 --> 1:39:34.640 addressed for what it is. Why is it that the 1:39:34.680 --> 1:39:39.400 American public understands or the Western public understands, that Russia doesn't. 1:39:40.000 --> 1:39:43.280 But when it comes to India, it's almost seen as 1:39:43.320 --> 1:39:46.759 this kind of yoga chai te, peace loving place, where 1:39:47.120 --> 1:39:50.760 in reality, anyone from there and anyone that's been on 1:39:51.360 --> 1:39:55.160 the other end of kind of oppression understands what India 1:39:55.240 --> 1:39:58.720 truly is. So I think what we'd like to do is, 1:39:59.320 --> 1:40:02.960 I don't think it it's unreasonable. This is a nation 1:40:03.160 --> 1:40:07.120 that is very openly going on to other sovereign nations 1:40:07.240 --> 1:40:12.960 land and targeting their citizens of any religious background. So 1:40:13.439 --> 1:40:17.080 I think it's something that these governments should be taking seriously. 1:40:17.479 --> 1:40:20.559 And the fact that it continues to happen, I think 1:40:20.680 --> 1:40:23.839 is a reflection of how not seriously it's being taken. 1:40:24.200 --> 1:40:26.280 If it was, you know, if there's you know, some 1:40:26.320 --> 1:40:29.840 sort of public statements, sanctions, if there was you know, 1:40:29.880 --> 1:40:31.640 a full on effort to say that this is a 1:40:31.720 --> 1:40:35.800 violation of our sovereignty, it would perhaps slow down. But 1:40:35.880 --> 1:40:40.600 it's continuing, and it's continuing rapidly, where we're seeing gunshots 1:40:40.680 --> 1:40:44.599 and you know, even though Indian nationals are being extraed 1:40:44.600 --> 1:40:47.800 added to the States, it's not stopping. So I think 1:40:47.960 --> 1:40:50.559 more aggressive action is needed, and the fact that it 1:40:50.640 --> 1:40:53.719 keeps happening is is just a reflection of how lacks 1:40:53.960 --> 1:40:57.800 these governments have been as a result of these actions. 1:40:58.040 --> 1:41:00.840 Yeah, you don't see it referred to in the terms 1:41:00.840 --> 1:41:03.760 of transnational oppression or really like by the US of 1:41:03.760 --> 1:41:07.639 them at least as this this consolidated program. It seems 1:41:07.680 --> 1:41:09.680 to be seen as like these incidents where then you know, 1:41:09.760 --> 1:41:11.600 joining the dots and being like, yeah, this this is 1:41:11.600 --> 1:41:14.360 an attempt at repression, you know, the murder of US 1:41:14.400 --> 1:41:18.240 citizens in me these two cases, right, I know this 1:41:18.280 --> 1:41:21.679 just happened with other diaspora communities sometimes the like DJ 1:41:22.080 --> 1:41:23.920 or someone within that has reached out to people in 1:41:23.920 --> 1:41:26.720 the community, especially people who are prominent, and been like, 1:41:27.720 --> 1:41:30.280 there is a legitimate risk of someone trying to kill you. 1:41:30.560 --> 1:41:32.280 Has that happened within the sick community? 1:41:33.080 --> 1:41:38.400 Oh yeah, absolutely. There's been multiple folks warned here in California, 1:41:39.080 --> 1:41:43.200 in Canada, all over the US that you know, there 1:41:43.320 --> 1:41:46.320 is legitimate threats to your life. Though it's a problem 1:41:46.360 --> 1:41:50.080 because they cannot give you any more information than that. 1:41:50.360 --> 1:41:53.040 So you ask, you know, where is the threat from 1:41:53.160 --> 1:41:56.720 the say, we can disclose that it's it's confidential. So 1:41:57.720 --> 1:42:01.680 obviously six who advocate for sovereignty and freedom of their 1:42:01.680 --> 1:42:06.160 people that can Punjab know where where the threat is from. Yeah, 1:42:06.200 --> 1:42:09.439 And I think the underlying understanding within the community is 1:42:09.680 --> 1:42:13.920 that Western countries understand it as well. They're essentially waiting 1:42:14.120 --> 1:42:18.479 for when it is politically you know, acceptable, when it 1:42:18.560 --> 1:42:22.439 is politically beneficial for them to actually say something about it. 1:42:22.600 --> 1:42:25.360 And I think we are an under knowing illusions that 1:42:25.600 --> 1:42:27.280 you know that these guys are going to speak for 1:42:27.360 --> 1:42:30.120 us for the sake of justice, that they're going to 1:42:30.160 --> 1:42:34.599 you know, express our perspective and condemn these nations based 1:42:34.640 --> 1:42:37.640 on the protection of six. We know our liberation is 1:42:37.680 --> 1:42:41.600 going to be the result of our efforts. But I 1:42:41.640 --> 1:42:46.600 think from a lobbying perspective, from an expression perspective, I 1:42:46.600 --> 1:42:50.360 think it is not unreasonable of us to expect that 1:42:50.560 --> 1:42:52.400 of governments where we are citizens. 1:42:52.680 --> 1:42:54.840 Yeah, Like it's kind of the trade that you make 1:42:54.880 --> 1:42:56.960 grein theory, like you give up a lot of freedom 1:42:56.960 --> 1:42:59.360 and in turn you get safety in the Yeah, you're 1:42:59.360 --> 1:43:01.400 giving up one and getting the other right now. 1:43:01.520 --> 1:43:14.000 Right right exactly. So like there have. 1:43:14.000 --> 1:43:16.160 Been various movements to Kaliftan, I think we should just 1:43:16.200 --> 1:43:20.400 mention that like in the nineteen eighties, more like confrontational 1:43:20.479 --> 1:43:24.520 attempts at Kalistan like independence were met with collective punishment 1:43:24.600 --> 1:43:28.280 by the Indian state and non Sik people right within India. 1:43:29.080 --> 1:43:31.920 Yeah. So going dating back to the eighties, actually up 1:43:31.960 --> 1:43:35.800 until eighty four, there was no United Movement for Independence 1:43:36.080 --> 1:43:38.639 something else you call uprind On. It was kind of 1:43:39.160 --> 1:43:43.760 the face of the thick rights movement, but in the 1:43:43.840 --> 1:43:46.120 document that they had proposed to the government be an 1:43:46.200 --> 1:43:50.280 unput cyber resolution, it wasn't a proposition for exclusively six 1:43:50.840 --> 1:43:54.320 And I think that's an important point to continue to mention, 1:43:54.560 --> 1:43:57.800 is that the way the Indian state portrays Kalistan is 1:43:57.840 --> 1:44:02.280 anti Hindu, and I think they understand that to get 1:44:02.360 --> 1:44:06.439 the public support, we need to portray movements or anything 1:44:06.479 --> 1:44:09.080 really that's not in our interest as anti Hindu. We 1:44:09.120 --> 1:44:11.439 need to make them feel threatened. Yeah, and if we 1:44:11.520 --> 1:44:14.519 can do that, there will be support for us to 1:44:14.760 --> 1:44:20.120 engage in these collective punishments. So in the eighties and nineties, 1:44:20.120 --> 1:44:22.760 actually we call it the decade of disappearances is where 1:44:22.800 --> 1:44:27.040 the Indian government went from village to village disappearing six 1:44:27.640 --> 1:44:31.040 hundreds of thousands. Essentially, our last generation was wiped out 1:44:31.040 --> 1:44:34.160 by the Indian state and they disposed of their bodies 1:44:34.200 --> 1:44:39.320 and crematories, throw them in rivers, and you know, like 1:44:39.680 --> 1:44:42.879 we basically say that there's a sixth river of blood 1:44:43.040 --> 1:44:46.479 in Bujab because that is just how many young men 1:44:46.560 --> 1:44:49.439 were killed from eighty five to nineteen ninety five. So 1:44:49.479 --> 1:44:53.479 there was an armed resistance against this. I mean, they 1:44:53.520 --> 1:44:57.920 were seeing their sisters taken into police stations and all 1:44:58.000 --> 1:45:01.120 kinds of atrocities committed against them. They were seeing their 1:45:01.160 --> 1:45:05.200 brothers disappeared, their you know, their family members. So at 1:45:05.240 --> 1:45:09.240 some point it is better to give up your life 1:45:09.760 --> 1:45:12.840 than to live in these circumstances. And so that is 1:45:13.240 --> 1:45:17.120 the brink that they were pushed to, and so we 1:45:17.280 --> 1:45:20.280 lean on their example, though the movement does not quite 1:45:20.520 --> 1:45:23.639 exactly at that same place today, we lean on their 1:45:23.680 --> 1:45:27.320 example in that saying, these people were willing to give 1:45:27.400 --> 1:45:31.240 up their lives for this cause, and us sitting in comfort, 1:45:31.680 --> 1:45:35.479 even if it's you know, temporary safety, we have a 1:45:35.479 --> 1:45:41.000 responsibility to move this movement forward. And with these new assassinations. 1:45:41.560 --> 1:45:45.559 That's another important thing to mention. We've saw murders of 1:45:46.280 --> 1:45:53.519 essentially the biggest Punjabi pops, said Musah in history. I mean, 1:45:53.520 --> 1:45:56.240 this guy was in Hollywood, he was he was everywhere, 1:45:56.520 --> 1:45:59.839 and when he started talking about Kadistan, when he started 1:46:00.200 --> 1:46:05.800 making music regarding Punjab's rights, he was assassinated. And we're 1:46:05.880 --> 1:46:10.400 seeing a new wave of Indian oppression. And for the 1:46:10.439 --> 1:46:13.960 first time now people that thought, oh the eighties and nineties, 1:46:14.200 --> 1:46:16.679 you know, you guys could be making something up. Maybe 1:46:16.680 --> 1:46:19.000 the Indian government is right, you guys can be cut up. 1:46:19.160 --> 1:46:22.519 Now they're seeing these assassinations happen in front of their eyes, 1:46:22.680 --> 1:46:25.439 and they're making the judgment call as to who is 1:46:25.479 --> 1:46:27.080 in the right and who is in And I think 1:46:27.160 --> 1:46:31.360 that's another reason that the Kalaistan movement continues to gain 1:46:31.800 --> 1:46:35.559 kind of solidarity within the six all over the world. Yeah. 1:46:35.640 --> 1:46:38.880 Sure, Like if if a government is trying to assassinate 1:46:38.880 --> 1:46:41.559 people to just essentially saying something it disagrees with it, 1:46:41.680 --> 1:46:44.200 it's not hard to see like who's in the wrong exactly. 1:46:44.560 --> 1:46:48.600 So I wonder like, obviously there's a genuine threat to 1:46:48.600 --> 1:46:51.640 seek communities here that continues to be a threat to 1:46:51.640 --> 1:46:56.320 seek migrants from both political parties in the United States. Right, Yeah, 1:46:56.439 --> 1:46:59.599 I'm interested, but not hopeful to see how their asylum 1:46:59.600 --> 1:47:03.720 claims go based on this very obvious discrimination that you've outlined. Yeah, 1:47:04.280 --> 1:47:06.519 and there's this threat to seek people in their home 1:47:06.600 --> 1:47:09.519 rwnd in point job, how can people who are not sick, 1:47:09.560 --> 1:47:12.240 who are not part of the community like be in solidarity? 1:47:12.320 --> 1:47:14.880 How can they support what can they do to, like 1:47:15.800 --> 1:47:17.719 I guess yet to stop people being murdered? 1:47:20.439 --> 1:47:26.160 Well, it sounds cliche to say awareness, but at this 1:47:26.240 --> 1:47:30.920 point in time, they're just enough people aware of you know, 1:47:31.200 --> 1:47:33.920 how in danger they are, because if they don't speak 1:47:33.960 --> 1:47:37.240 for six today tomorrow, it could be them. And if 1:47:37.479 --> 1:47:40.880 the Western governments are allowing foreign nations to come in 1:47:40.960 --> 1:47:44.519 and they have embassies in these countries and they're allowing 1:47:44.560 --> 1:47:48.320 these nations to kind of, you know, assassinate their citizens, 1:47:48.600 --> 1:47:50.320 then what's to say that they won't be next to 1:47:50.360 --> 1:47:52.599 Mouth's that age old saying there was no one left 1:47:52.600 --> 1:47:55.160 to speak for me. That's part of it is you 1:47:55.240 --> 1:47:58.920 have to understand the ramifications of ignoring something like this. 1:47:59.000 --> 1:48:00.800 So I guess the first thing we'd like to see 1:48:00.880 --> 1:48:05.400 is solidarity with that Alistine. Now most folks have an 1:48:05.400 --> 1:48:07.800 opinion on it, or at least they've heard the word, 1:48:08.200 --> 1:48:11.120 and they've seen Six everywhere, you know, where the folks 1:48:11.160 --> 1:48:13.200 that walk around with turbans, and we're one of the 1:48:13.320 --> 1:48:16.280 probably ninety nine percent of people you see with turbans 1:48:16.320 --> 1:48:21.320 on our six and so we're a very visible community. However, 1:48:21.800 --> 1:48:26.080 the reasons we're here, our plight, understanding of our background 1:48:26.160 --> 1:48:30.080 is generally lacking. So I think the more that we 1:48:30.120 --> 1:48:33.479 can understand who Six are, what their beliefs are, what 1:48:33.520 --> 1:48:37.519 they're fighting for, why they're here to begin with, I think, 1:48:38.320 --> 1:48:41.960 you know, there will be more political pressure regarding that, 1:48:42.360 --> 1:48:45.840 and I'm seeing it starting to shift slightly, especially in 1:48:45.920 --> 1:48:48.880 the past five to ten years. We've tipped the skills 1:48:49.080 --> 1:48:52.320 just slightly, but we're far from from anywhere substantial. 1:48:52.760 --> 1:48:55.840 Yeah, I think for like, at least for my group 1:48:55.840 --> 1:48:57.680 of friends, right, we go down to the border and 1:48:57.680 --> 1:49:01.040 help people, and like we've encountered sick people because they 1:49:01.040 --> 1:49:03.840 were always there with us helping us, right, Like some 1:49:04.040 --> 1:49:07.360 sick folks flew down from other places and joined us 1:49:07.360 --> 1:49:09.599 and stay out there and helped us feed people. And 1:49:09.640 --> 1:49:14.400 like sick folks have shown up for other people substantially, 1:49:14.439 --> 1:49:16.599 like all over the world, and I think it would 1:49:16.640 --> 1:49:19.839 be really good to see people kind of reflect that 1:49:19.680 --> 1:49:22.679 that solidarity that's kind of baked into the Sick religion 1:49:22.800 --> 1:49:24.960 that it would be nice to see people doing that 1:49:25.200 --> 1:49:29.240 in return. Absolutely, as Sikhs organized to their own community safety, 1:49:29.280 --> 1:49:34.080 like obviously there's like a pressing danger to people, especially 1:49:34.120 --> 1:49:37.479 people who are vocal, like a Sikhs organized to like 1:49:38.160 --> 1:49:40.160 take care of one another in that sense. 1:49:40.600 --> 1:49:44.240 To some extent, yes, And again, a part of organization 1:49:44.560 --> 1:49:48.760 and having support that comes from that organization is having 1:49:48.760 --> 1:49:54.120 political power. And Six have political power in certain instances, 1:49:54.200 --> 1:49:57.200 but they do not have a homeland or the resources 1:49:57.240 --> 1:49:59.720 to kind of back it up. And you know politics 1:49:59.800 --> 1:50:02.760 kind of lobbying works with money. So the fact that 1:50:02.800 --> 1:50:05.920 we have these immigration problems a is a result of 1:50:06.160 --> 1:50:10.080 India's efforts, but be the reason that they don't have 1:50:10.120 --> 1:50:12.840 the support they need is because Six don't have a 1:50:12.840 --> 1:50:15.960 homeland where they can say, all right, these are our beliefs, 1:50:16.080 --> 1:50:18.559 these are our people. We support our people, we will 1:50:18.600 --> 1:50:21.680 give them these resources that they need. So we're kind 1:50:21.720 --> 1:50:26.120 of always operating at a grassroots level, and that's part 1:50:26.160 --> 1:50:30.360 of the issue, is why there's not grand or large 1:50:30.400 --> 1:50:33.800 scale change, but it continues to march forward. You know, 1:50:34.160 --> 1:50:37.519 as generations grow up, as they become more involved in 1:50:37.520 --> 1:50:40.240 different facets. A lot of people, especially in the United States, 1:50:40.320 --> 1:50:45.280 are first generation. So our parents' generation was just focused 1:50:45.320 --> 1:50:46.880 on surviving. How are we going to put food on 1:50:46.920 --> 1:50:48.280 the table? Are were going to put a roof over 1:50:48.320 --> 1:50:50.519 your head? And so the next generation kind of has 1:50:50.560 --> 1:50:54.679 the opportunity to explore how they can make a difference 1:50:54.680 --> 1:50:58.160 for their people. So Canada is getting there, the UK 1:50:58.320 --> 1:51:00.960 is getting there, the US is behind, just because our 1:51:00.960 --> 1:51:04.759 migration here was later than those places to that level, 1:51:05.160 --> 1:51:06.519 but it's getting there. 1:51:06.720 --> 1:51:09.519 Yeah, that's good. So people want to find out more 1:51:09.600 --> 1:51:13.519 about like the sick religion or like sick people are 1:51:13.640 --> 1:51:15.839 very good resources that you could suggest. 1:51:16.200 --> 1:51:16.439 Yeah. 1:51:16.479 --> 1:51:19.840 Absolutely, I think there's a very thorough background of what 1:51:19.960 --> 1:51:23.000 calist On is. Just on callist on dot org, okay, 1:51:23.080 --> 1:51:27.000 OKJ L I s t An dot org. They have publications, 1:51:27.400 --> 1:51:30.839 they have documentaries. They've done a significant amount of work 1:51:31.120 --> 1:51:34.960 to give the background of a Y six will never 1:51:35.200 --> 1:51:39.360 stop fighting for freedom and be kind of what the 1:51:39.400 --> 1:51:43.120 circumstances are today. So they've they've done a fairly good 1:51:43.240 --> 1:51:48.000 job at that. Other than that, there's pages on social media. 1:51:48.400 --> 1:51:52.519 There's free five ab which stands for freequin job. It's 1:51:52.600 --> 1:51:56.639 it's on Twitter, TikTok okay and of course TikTok has 1:51:57.000 --> 1:52:00.599 deleted that page many times. So where trying to figure 1:52:00.640 --> 1:52:04.320 out where the alliances are there and Instagram of course 1:52:04.600 --> 1:52:08.559 has done their thing based on their alliances. But there 1:52:08.600 --> 1:52:11.160 are some resources out there, and of course if you 1:52:11.280 --> 1:52:13.880 google it, the first things that are going to come 1:52:13.960 --> 1:52:17.839 up is Times of India, you know, hindos Tun Times 1:52:18.040 --> 1:52:21.800 basically saying this is a terrorist movement that's funded by 1:52:22.040 --> 1:52:25.920 foreign governments to break the unity integrity of India. It's 1:52:25.960 --> 1:52:31.559 a very rudimentary explanation, basically rooted in violence and how 1:52:31.600 --> 1:52:34.200 these people just have it out for us. But the 1:52:34.280 --> 1:52:37.479 reality is entirely different and the facts speak to that, 1:52:37.600 --> 1:52:41.240 and I think the assassination attempts of today, the folks 1:52:41.240 --> 1:52:44.599 that remain in Indian jails today, there's a UK citizen 1:52:44.680 --> 1:52:47.519 in Indian jail. There are you know, folks that are 1:52:47.600 --> 1:52:50.400 dying in Indian prisons. There's folks that have completed their 1:52:50.439 --> 1:52:54.280 sentences six thirty plus years still sitting in Indian prisons. 1:52:54.600 --> 1:52:58.479 So all of the circumstances today kind of speak to 1:52:59.120 --> 1:53:02.400 why this movement and exists and will continue to exist. 1:53:02.520 --> 1:53:04.760 So hopefully we can take advantage of some of the 1:53:04.760 --> 1:53:05.679 resources out there. 1:53:05.920 --> 1:53:08.280 Yeah, that's great, and I hope people will go and 1:53:08.320 --> 1:53:10.680 like educate themselves. You can look up caulsa Aid as 1:53:10.720 --> 1:53:14.559 well if you're interested in like the sort of sortid 1:53:14.560 --> 1:53:17.680 diarity and support side of Sikhism. Those people have been 1:53:17.680 --> 1:53:19.679 great at the border, and I know they've done tons 1:53:19.720 --> 1:53:21.559 about the great humanitarian work as well. 1:53:22.120 --> 1:53:23.240 Absolutely. Yeah. 1:53:23.360 --> 1:53:25.200 Is there anything else that you'd like people to know 1:53:25.320 --> 1:53:27.439 before we finish up here, like about six or about 1:53:27.479 --> 1:53:29.679 college down things they can do to help. 1:53:30.439 --> 1:53:34.720 Yeah, I think I would, especially all the viewers. I 1:53:34.720 --> 1:53:37.519 would like everyone to be open to the opportunity that 1:53:37.600 --> 1:53:42.200 there are more people in the world that are seeking 1:53:42.240 --> 1:53:45.040 to suppress and oppress than just what is told by 1:53:45.280 --> 1:53:48.720 American media today. At least be open to the opportunity. 1:53:49.120 --> 1:53:53.800 India is the world's biggest democracy today until it's not anymore, 1:53:54.240 --> 1:53:59.920 and communities like the six who have experienced violent genocide 1:54:00.080 --> 1:54:04.960 and today are experiencing the genocide. I think it's very 1:54:04.960 --> 1:54:08.960 important to understand that the sick genocide never ended. It 1:54:09.000 --> 1:54:13.639 continues today in different facets, in different forms. So that's 1:54:13.720 --> 1:54:18.000 A and B the struggle for freedom and sovereignty, though 1:54:18.000 --> 1:54:20.880 they want to put it on. So the Indian state 1:54:20.960 --> 1:54:24.559 continuously tries to kill two birds with one stone. They 1:54:24.560 --> 1:54:27.640 have enemity with Pakistan, so they tried to say that 1:54:27.720 --> 1:54:30.600 Kadistan is a movement to the byproduct of kind of 1:54:30.640 --> 1:54:35.360 focused on the interference, even though the facts speak otherwise 1:54:35.520 --> 1:54:38.960 that if it's not Fakistan that killed hundreds of thousands 1:54:38.960 --> 1:54:42.360 of six, it's not Focuistan that is assassinating six out 1:54:42.400 --> 1:54:45.920 in these foreign countries. So they try to kill two 1:54:45.960 --> 1:54:49.400 birds with one stone. India is definitely not a democracy. 1:54:49.440 --> 1:54:51.200 I would like the viewers to be open to that 1:54:51.280 --> 1:54:54.520 possibility as well and do your own research. Of course, 1:54:54.800 --> 1:54:58.240 I have a perspective based on the circumstances that my 1:54:58.320 --> 1:55:02.440 people have been through, and I would hope everyone can 1:55:02.920 --> 1:55:06.200 form a more thorough understanding and that there is a 1:55:06.200 --> 1:55:10.880 lot more happening, especially in that region than is politically 1:55:11.200 --> 1:55:14.560 correct to say right now. So that's what I'll finish with. 1:55:15.040 --> 1:55:17.240 Yeah, that's great, thank you very much for that. I 1:55:17.280 --> 1:55:18.960 think that's a really good place to finish. 1:55:18.960 --> 1:55:19.200 Thank you. 1:55:19.240 --> 1:55:21.560 So much for your time, and yeah, I really appreciate 1:55:21.560 --> 1:55:22.480 you explaining that for. 1:55:22.520 --> 1:55:24.160 Us, of course. Thank you for having me, gentlemen. 1:55:45.040 --> 1:55:48.080 Welcome to happen here. I'm Andrew Siege from the YouTube 1:55:48.120 --> 1:55:52.360 channel Andreism and I'm joined again by James Andrew. Welcome 1:55:52.400 --> 1:55:56.400 back time to talk about political codes again. 1:55:56.880 --> 1:55:57.960 Oh good fine. 1:55:58.200 --> 1:56:01.160 Continuing with the work of Dennis Toura and Tim Wolforth 1:56:01.280 --> 1:56:04.120 in their book on the Edge Political Cults Left and Right. 1:56:05.120 --> 1:56:09.240 I've spoken before about the cult recruitment process, the contractory 1:56:09.240 --> 1:56:13.800 positions held by cult members, ideological totalism, and the commonalities 1:56:13.840 --> 1:56:19.360 of political cults, including rigid belief systems, immunity to fortification, authoritarianism, 1:56:19.800 --> 1:56:24.720 arbitrary leadership, verification of leaders, intense activism, and the use 1:56:24.760 --> 1:56:28.560 of loaded language. And speaking of loaded language. I know 1:56:28.680 --> 1:56:33.280 that some people don't like the term cult because it is, 1:56:33.480 --> 1:56:37.600 you know, very charged. I prefer personally. I know that 1:56:37.680 --> 1:56:40.520 other terms are used, such as high control groups or 1:56:40.880 --> 1:56:46.440 new religious movements, but I'm sticking to cults. My question 1:56:46.520 --> 1:56:50.480 for you, James, do you think that you would be 1:56:50.480 --> 1:56:51.560 susceptible to the cult? 1:56:53.200 --> 1:56:58.760 One hopes not. We spoke about authoritarian personalities before, and 1:56:58.840 --> 1:57:01.200 I wonder if there's something similar for people who end 1:57:01.240 --> 1:57:03.680 up in cults. But I'm sure there's something that could 1:57:03.680 --> 1:57:05.160 get any of us. You know, we all have our 1:57:05.840 --> 1:57:07.480 susceptibilities to these things. 1:57:08.280 --> 1:57:10.480 But I hope it wouldn't be for sure. 1:57:10.960 --> 1:57:14.120 I mean, one would like to think, you know, yeah, 1:57:14.120 --> 1:57:16.400 I'm fuilt different than I would form into a cult. 1:57:16.440 --> 1:57:20.920 But you know, really, especially considering the the paucity of 1:57:21.000 --> 1:57:25.320 community these days, it's a little wonder that's one of 1:57:25.400 --> 1:57:33.000 people find a home in such harmful and abusive spaces. 1:57:33.600 --> 1:57:38.720 So previously I've touched on the LaRouche movements, the Newman tendency, 1:57:39.240 --> 1:57:42.000 and the United Red Army of Japan, the latter of 1:57:42.040 --> 1:57:46.200 which ended up killing some people. Today we'll be looking 1:57:46.200 --> 1:57:49.760 at another case study, not merely as extreme but still 1:57:49.880 --> 1:57:54.960 quite abusive, this time the infamous Marlene Dixon and her 1:57:54.960 --> 1:57:56.640 Democratic Workers Party. 1:57:57.400 --> 1:57:59.120 Fun Times, Fun Times. 1:57:59.160 --> 1:58:02.960 Indeed, I also got some information on Dixon's activity, not 1:58:03.200 --> 1:58:05.680 just from on the Edge, but also from the book 1:58:05.760 --> 1:58:10.200 Bounded Choice, True Believers and Charismatic Cults by Janja Lalich, 1:58:10.680 --> 1:58:13.680 who was actually a member of Dixon's Democratic Workers Party 1:58:14.000 --> 1:58:16.680 for ten years. I like that a lot of books 1:58:16.840 --> 1:58:20.320 written a bold cults are written by former cult numbers. 1:58:20.680 --> 1:58:23.760 Yeah, I mean I think it can be like the 1:58:23.760 --> 1:58:26.480 point you raised your initial question, right, like everyone likes 1:58:26.480 --> 1:58:28.400 to think they're specially and not susceptible, And I can 1:58:28.440 --> 1:58:30.480 see how books written about them could be written from 1:58:30.520 --> 1:58:34.720 a place of like condescension or you know, other ring. 1:58:34.960 --> 1:58:37.240 So I think it's always good when folks who have 1:58:37.280 --> 1:58:39.400 survived these things could write about them. 1:58:39.560 --> 1:58:41.840 Yeah, for sure, for sure. I mean one of the 1:58:41.840 --> 1:58:44.680 authors on the Edge, Tim Wore for a few who 1:58:44.720 --> 1:58:48.000 also part of a Trotskyist cult. So these are people 1:58:48.000 --> 1:58:49.320 who are speaking from experience. 1:58:50.040 --> 1:58:53.240 Yeah, I was writing about cults long before I started 1:58:53.240 --> 1:58:55.919 this podcast, So there was some weird cut like behaviors 1:58:55.920 --> 1:59:00.200 and endurance sports. And I spoke to an expert. She 1:59:00.440 --> 1:59:03.400 also was a survivor and introduced me to some other 1:59:03.440 --> 1:59:06.760 survivors of some more sort of classic left political cults. 1:59:06.800 --> 1:59:10.240 And like, it wasn't something I ever really felt comfortable 1:59:10.280 --> 1:59:13.920 like narrating their experiences. I would rather they narrate their experiences. 1:59:14.120 --> 1:59:14.680 Sure was. 1:59:14.880 --> 1:59:16.840 It was really interesting to see how many of them 1:59:17.120 --> 1:59:20.120 were like so willing to write about it and to 1:59:20.160 --> 1:59:22.560 talk about it and wanted to educate people about it. 1:59:23.120 --> 1:59:25.680 Yeah, I mean, one of the reasons I'm particularly passionate 1:59:25.680 --> 1:59:30.400 about political cults is just the way that they sap 1:59:30.720 --> 1:59:35.800 the energy, the passion, and the drive, the potential of 1:59:36.400 --> 1:59:39.800 what should be you know, people involved in you know, 1:59:39.880 --> 1:59:43.600 really positive change, they end up getting sucked in and 1:59:43.640 --> 1:59:47.360 the energies get sapped by these causes by these leaders. 1:59:47.960 --> 1:59:51.440 They just sort of diverte their potential trajectory. 1:59:52.360 --> 1:59:52.560 Yeah. 1:59:52.600 --> 1:59:55.960 Absolutely, I think anyone who was active in the United 1:59:55.960 --> 1:59:59.560 States on the left in twenty twenty can attest to 2:00:00.240 --> 2:00:03.120 the ability of some of these groups to just cut 2:00:03.160 --> 2:00:06.560 the soul out of a popular movement which was making 2:00:06.560 --> 2:00:08.160 a positive difference at one point. 2:00:08.520 --> 2:00:13.280 Right, So let's get into it. Marlene Dixon was born 2:00:13.320 --> 2:00:17.840 into a family that valued education and intellectual pursuit. From 2:00:17.840 --> 2:00:20.360 a young age, she was immersed in an environment that 2:00:20.560 --> 2:00:24.200 fostered deep appreciation for learning and critical thinking, and this 2:00:24.280 --> 2:00:27.720 foundation significantly influenced her future path set in the stage 2:00:27.720 --> 2:00:32.320 for her academic and political endeavors. Growing up, Dixon showed 2:00:32.320 --> 2:00:35.280 an early interest in sociology, a field that would later 2:00:35.360 --> 2:00:39.560 become her academic and professional focus. She pursued higher education 2:00:39.760 --> 2:00:43.360 with a passion, earning her undergraduate degree and going on 2:00:43.520 --> 2:00:47.240 to complete a PhD in sociology in the University of California. 2:00:48.000 --> 2:00:51.080 The doctoral studies were marked by a rigorous exploration of 2:00:51.120 --> 2:00:55.560 social structures and equalities. Themes were resonate throughout her career 2:00:56.440 --> 2:01:00.200 as a sociology professor. Dixon's classroom was more than just 2:01:00.240 --> 2:01:03.360 a place for academic instruction. It was a forum for 2:01:03.440 --> 2:01:07.240 radical ideas and critical debate. Her teaching was infused with 2:01:07.280 --> 2:01:12.080 a strong feminist perspective, challenging traditional notions and encouraging students 2:01:12.080 --> 2:01:16.080 to question societal norms. This feminist ideology was not just 2:01:16.120 --> 2:01:19.480 an academic interest, but a driving force behind her activism 2:01:19.720 --> 2:01:23.720 and the formation of her political beliefs. However, even early 2:01:23.760 --> 2:01:26.680 on magain and science, that something's a bit of a wry. 2:01:27.800 --> 2:01:30.880 According to some of her former students and colleagues, it 2:01:30.920 --> 2:01:33.000 was also Dune those years when she became interested in 2:01:33.080 --> 2:01:37.920 mass social psychology and group behavior modification. She studied draber J. 2:01:38.000 --> 2:01:43.720 Lufton's work on thought reform. She studied and admired total communities, accults, 2:01:43.760 --> 2:01:47.720 and other directed methods of behavioral control such as Alcoholics Anonymous. 2:01:48.360 --> 2:01:51.800 She believed that these programs provided positive ways to change people. 2:01:52.360 --> 2:01:55.720 Dixon's early academic career also provided her with a platform 2:01:55.760 --> 2:01:58.400 to connect with like minded individuals who shared her passion 2:01:58.480 --> 2:02:02.240 for social justice. These connections were proved crucial as she 2:02:02.320 --> 2:02:05.160 moved beyond the confines of academia and into the world 2:02:05.200 --> 2:02:08.920 of radical political activisim Her political awakening came during a 2:02:08.960 --> 2:02:12.680 time of significant social and political upheaval. The sixties and 2:02:12.680 --> 2:02:16.960 seventies were decades marked by civil rights movements, anti war protests, 2:02:17.080 --> 2:02:20.480 and a crowing dissillusion one with the status quo. Dixon 2:02:20.720 --> 2:02:24.640 was deeply influenced by the principles of Marxism, Leninism and Maoism. 2:02:25.280 --> 2:02:28.400 Marxism provided her with a free for understanding class struggle 2:02:28.640 --> 2:02:34.280 and exploitation inherent and capitalist societies. Lenin's organizational principles, particularly 2:02:34.280 --> 2:02:37.040 the concept of the vanguard party, were also integral to 2:02:37.120 --> 2:02:41.160 Dixon's political thought. Lenin argued, of course, that a disciplined, 2:02:41.240 --> 2:02:43.960 centralized party was necessary to lead the wildern. 2:02:43.720 --> 2:02:44.520 Class to revolution. 2:02:45.200 --> 2:02:48.680 Dixon adopted this idea wholeheartedly, seeing the need for a 2:02:48.800 --> 2:02:54.800 tightly controlled, hierarchical organization to con guide the proletaria towards socialism. 2:02:55.160 --> 2:02:58.440 Mao Sadong's influence on Dixon was particularly evident in her 2:02:58.440 --> 2:03:03.200 approge to internal party denis. Mao's emphasis on continuous revolution 2:03:03.360 --> 2:03:07.680 and self criticism as tools for maintaining ideological purity resonated 2:03:07.680 --> 2:03:12.400 with Dixon. She implemented rigorous criticism and self criticism sessions 2:03:12.720 --> 2:03:15.800 within her future party, a practice that aimed to eliminate 2:03:15.840 --> 2:03:20.400 bourgeois tendencies and reinforced commitment to the party's goals. Dixon's 2:03:20.400 --> 2:03:24.879 political engagement wasn't limited to theoretical discussions. She was actively 2:03:24.920 --> 2:03:29.600 involved in radical movements, participating in protests and organizing efforts 2:03:29.600 --> 2:03:33.640 as well to challenge existing power structures. Her activism extended 2:03:33.680 --> 2:03:37.680 beyond national borders, as she connected with international revolutionary movements 2:03:38.000 --> 2:03:41.840 and drew inspiration from their struggles. The culmination of these 2:03:41.880 --> 2:03:45.440 influences and experiences led to the founding of the Democratic 2:03:45.560 --> 2:03:59.480 Worker's Party in nineteen seventy four. Dixon's vision for the 2:03:59.480 --> 2:04:03.680 Democratic Worpless Party or DWP was deeply rooted in this 2:04:03.800 --> 2:04:08.800 idea of Leninist democratic centralism, Maoist self critique, and Marxist 2:04:08.840 --> 2:04:13.040 anti capitalism. But beyond Marx, Lenin and Mao, the New 2:04:13.080 --> 2:04:16.680 Communist Movement or NCM played a significant role in shape 2:04:16.720 --> 2:04:20.240 and Dixon's approach. The NCM was a diverse collection of 2:04:20.280 --> 2:04:22.480 groups that emerged in the late nineteen sixties and early 2:04:22.560 --> 2:04:26.280 nineteen seventies advocating for a revitalized communist movement in the 2:04:26.360 --> 2:04:30.120 United States. The NCM sought to build new Marxist Leninist 2:04:30.200 --> 2:04:33.280 organizations that could address the shortcomings of the old left 2:04:33.520 --> 2:04:37.600 and provide a fresh, militant alternative. Dixon was, of course, 2:04:37.680 --> 2:04:41.280 deeply inspired by the ncm's emphasis on billionaire revolution sharing 2:04:41.360 --> 2:04:46.480 vanguard and his commitment to rigorous theoretical work and practical activism. 2:04:46.880 --> 2:04:49.160 At the time, the UP was getting a lot of 2:04:49.200 --> 2:04:51.440 credit for being one of the few feminist and women 2:04:51.600 --> 2:04:54.920 led organizations in the new Communist movement, which allowed the 2:04:54.920 --> 2:04:57.800 group to draw radicals from leftist circles as well as 2:04:57.800 --> 2:05:01.280 the women's movement and the gay movement. When most NCM 2:05:01.280 --> 2:05:05.200 groups were virulently a homophobic and dismissive of feminism, the 2:05:05.320 --> 2:05:10.120 DWP had a unique alert. Early on in her political career, 2:05:10.560 --> 2:05:14.520 Marline Dixon also contributed theoretically to the DWP with the 2:05:14.640 --> 2:05:18.520 concept of proletarian feminism, which allowed the DWP to stand 2:05:18.560 --> 2:05:21.800 up both against class prejudice and sexism and for the 2:05:21.800 --> 2:05:26.960 equality of all people. Over time, though her concept of 2:05:26.960 --> 2:05:31.600 proletariy and feminism became less prominent in the DWP's approach 2:05:31.840 --> 2:05:35.760 and in the literature. In the early stages, the concept 2:05:35.760 --> 2:05:39.680 of proletary and feminism attracted a lot of people, including 2:05:39.760 --> 2:05:42.400 jan Jalalich, the author of Bounded Choice, who had been 2:05:42.400 --> 2:05:45.560 part of the WP. The early days of the WP 2:05:45.720 --> 2:05:48.800 were marked by a significant effort to recruit and train 2:05:48.920 --> 2:05:52.560 new members. Dixon and her close associates focused on building 2:05:52.560 --> 2:05:56.360 a catre of dedicated revolutionaries who were deeply committed to 2:05:56.360 --> 2:05:59.440 the party schools. These numbers were not just activists, but 2:05:59.440 --> 2:06:03.120 Addiolodge called soldiers, prepared to dedicate their lives to the 2:06:03.120 --> 2:06:07.200 cause of socialism. Recruitment often targets had young intellectuals and 2:06:07.240 --> 2:06:12.040 activists who disillusioned with mainstream politics and eager for radical change. 2:06:12.880 --> 2:06:16.760 In this early period, the parties organized study groups, protests, 2:06:16.760 --> 2:06:20.960 and community outreach programs, all aimed at raising political consciousness 2:06:21.040 --> 2:06:25.120 and building support for the party's revolutionary agenda. Dixon's charisma 2:06:25.240 --> 2:06:29.200 and intellectual rigor inspired many, but her leadership style also 2:06:29.360 --> 2:06:35.120 had its challenges. Building on she had very authoritarian tendencies 2:06:35.480 --> 2:06:38.920 influenced by her admiration for mal Zadan, and it led 2:06:38.960 --> 2:06:44.320 to a highly controlled and often repressive internal atmosphere. Members 2:06:44.320 --> 2:06:49.400 were subjugated to rigorous criticism and self criticism sessions, and 2:06:49.480 --> 2:06:53.640 these sessions could be psychologically taxing, creating an atmosphere of 2:06:53.840 --> 2:06:58.720 constant scrutiny and pressure. This is exemplary of social psychologist 2:06:58.760 --> 2:07:02.160 Anthony Prakkanis and Aaronson's seven step guide to creating a 2:07:02.200 --> 2:07:07.200 political cult, which included crucially maintaining a rigid internal regime. 2:07:07.760 --> 2:07:09.600 In these early years, we can also see the signs 2:07:09.640 --> 2:07:13.240 of the other steps, such as creating a distinct social reality, 2:07:13.720 --> 2:07:17.880 building commitment through dissonance reduction, sending members to proselytize, and 2:07:17.920 --> 2:07:21.440 fixating members on a promised land, the promised land being, 2:07:21.480 --> 2:07:26.320 of course, international communism. The DWP crew steadily in its 2:07:26.360 --> 2:07:30.920 early years. Full time members called cadres or militants typically 2:07:31.000 --> 2:07:33.120 numbered between one hundred and twenty five and one hundred 2:07:33.120 --> 2:07:35.720 and fifty people, but in certain periods there were between 2:07:35.760 --> 2:07:39.240 three hundred and one thousand members at various creative affiliation. 2:07:39.960 --> 2:07:42.760 One of the d WP's primary areas of focus was 2:07:42.880 --> 2:07:46.480 labor organizing. Dixon and her colleagues saw the labor movement 2:07:46.480 --> 2:07:49.680 as a critical battleground for the struggle against capitalism, and 2:07:49.760 --> 2:07:54.440 they dedicated significant resources to supporting labour strikes, organizing union drives, 2:07:54.480 --> 2:07:58.360 and advocating for workers' rights. The DWP's members often worked 2:07:58.360 --> 2:08:02.200 closely with existing labor union providing support and promoting a 2:08:02.240 --> 2:08:06.480 more radical, class conscious approach labor activism, and this involvement 2:08:06.520 --> 2:08:10.280 helped party gain credibility and trust among workers, who saw 2:08:10.320 --> 2:08:14.760 the WP as genuine allies in their struggle. Members were 2:08:14.760 --> 2:08:19.320 also active in campaigns for affordable housing, health care, and education, 2:08:19.880 --> 2:08:23.560 working to build coalitions with other progressive organizations and community groups. 2:08:24.600 --> 2:08:28.760 Political education was another cornerstone of the activities. Dixon believed 2:08:28.760 --> 2:08:32.120 that a well informed and ideologically grounded membership was essential 2:08:32.160 --> 2:08:35.000 for the party's success, so they had regular study groups 2:08:35.040 --> 2:08:38.240 with jobs and lectures and Marxist theory, current events, and 2:08:38.320 --> 2:08:42.200 revolutionary strategy. And these activities are not limited to members, 2:08:42.280 --> 2:08:46.120 but were also used as tools for outreach. Eventually, the 2:08:46.200 --> 2:08:49.440 party's activities extended beyond its initial base in San Francisco 2:08:49.640 --> 2:08:52.880 and reached other parts of California, even gaining attention on 2:08:52.920 --> 2:08:56.360 a national scale. Dixon's ability to connect with other radical 2:08:56.400 --> 2:08:59.480 movements and a strategic vision for the WP's role in 2:08:59.520 --> 2:09:02.360 the broader of lutionary struggle had played a significant part 2:09:02.640 --> 2:09:07.040 in this growth, but despite their successes behind the scenes 2:09:07.320 --> 2:09:12.320 was not too hot, to put it lightly. While Dixon's 2:09:12.360 --> 2:09:15.760 theoretical acumen and charm had attracted many to her cause, 2:09:16.440 --> 2:09:19.360 her methods of maintaining control within the party with what 2:09:19.520 --> 2:09:23.360 gave it its cult connotations. One of the central aspects 2:09:23.360 --> 2:09:26.960 of Dixon's control was her personal domination over the party 2:09:27.000 --> 2:09:31.320 and its members. Dixon established herself as the undisputed leader 2:09:31.400 --> 2:09:36.560 of the EWP, demanding absolute loyalty and obedience. Leylish described 2:09:36.600 --> 2:09:40.120 her as a large, loud woman who exuded a type 2:09:40.120 --> 2:09:42.560 of chrisma that could be difficult for outsiders to comprehend. 2:09:43.080 --> 2:09:47.440 Her personal style was abrasive, and she was stern and domineering. Nonetheless, 2:09:47.640 --> 2:09:50.240 Dixon was able to exact commitment from her followers, an 2:09:50.400 --> 2:09:54.360 entailed devotion to her person and undying defense of her 2:09:54.400 --> 2:09:57.960 actions as their leader. So we see a peculiar and 2:09:58.080 --> 2:10:02.200 almost quanting resemblance to others the historical movements, like Heaven's Gates. 2:10:02.960 --> 2:10:05.880 On the surface, they seemed worlds apart. One is steeped 2:10:05.920 --> 2:10:09.800 in partical idiology, the other in spiritual salvation. But dive 2:10:09.880 --> 2:10:13.240 deeper and you'll find that the currents beneath their surface 2:10:13.360 --> 2:10:17.839 flew with striking similarities. Take for instance, the role of charisma. 2:10:18.960 --> 2:10:22.160 Like Apple White and the Nettles of Heaven's Gate. Dixon 2:10:22.320 --> 2:10:26.400 used words as her craft, her instrument, speaking to eager audiences, 2:10:26.440 --> 2:10:29.840 weaving a vision of hope that drew people in. She 2:10:29.960 --> 2:10:33.000 wasn't just persuede so she was magnetic. She created a 2:10:33.000 --> 2:10:35.880 myth for herself that seemed to fit with the revolutionary 2:10:35.960 --> 2:10:38.680 zie guys at the time. Laalish describes that when she 2:10:38.720 --> 2:10:42.080 first joined the party, Dixon was a tower in presence 2:10:42.520 --> 2:10:46.040 who created an intense, almost sacred bond with them. LATAs 2:10:46.040 --> 2:10:49.879 speaks of how the followers were awed by her, desperate 2:10:50.000 --> 2:10:53.000 to follow her vision, willing to endure her criticism just 2:10:53.000 --> 2:10:56.360 to stay in her good graces. And when Dick Sun 2:10:56.400 --> 2:11:00.000 would spend some time away and came back, they would 2:11:00.080 --> 2:11:02.960 spend long, cruel and meetings where she would dissect every 2:11:03.000 --> 2:11:06.920 decision they made and criticize everything they did in her absence, 2:11:07.400 --> 2:11:10.000 showing them all the ways they had fallen short. It 2:11:10.040 --> 2:11:14.080 was brutal, but it also reinforced her authority over them, 2:11:14.120 --> 2:11:16.720 as they wanted to get her approval at all times. 2:11:17.480 --> 2:11:21.240 One of her documents on the development of Leninist democracy 2:11:21.680 --> 2:11:25.480 told the followers that the leadership was about authority, not popularity, 2:11:26.000 --> 2:11:28.400 and whether we liked her or not, we had to 2:11:28.440 --> 2:11:31.560 accept as the ultimate authority in the party. Lachi also 2:11:31.600 --> 2:11:34.360 says that they were made to believe that being part 2:11:34.360 --> 2:11:38.000 of the WP was a privilege. Authority wasn't just accepted, 2:11:38.040 --> 2:11:41.040 it was revered, and this is the foundation of their 2:11:41.080 --> 2:11:44.720 relationship with Dixon. She was the leader, the guide in force, 2:11:45.160 --> 2:11:48.560 and they were the followers, committed, obedient, and always seeking 2:11:48.560 --> 2:11:52.600 her approval. And yet there was a secret at the 2:11:52.600 --> 2:11:56.360 heart of her. She was a myth maker. Her backstory 2:11:57.080 --> 2:12:00.680 was curated, embellished to paint herself as a champion of 2:12:00.720 --> 2:12:14.080 civil rights when the reality was far less dramatic. Systems 2:12:14.120 --> 2:12:17.360 of control was another area where the DWP and Heaven's 2:12:17.400 --> 2:12:20.920 Gates shared common ground. Both groups thrived on a mix 2:12:20.960 --> 2:12:25.000 of carrot and stick promises of a better future, harsh 2:12:25.000 --> 2:12:28.920 discipline for failure. Leaders would live apart from their followers, 2:12:29.320 --> 2:12:32.760 hidden away while their followers toiled and sacrificed. Every day 2:12:32.840 --> 2:12:35.840 was a test, every misstep a reason for criticism, and 2:12:35.960 --> 2:12:39.320 leaders were never revealing themselves fully. They created a distance. 2:12:39.640 --> 2:12:44.080 They were heightened their mystique and their authority. In the DWP, 2:12:44.920 --> 2:12:48.480 there was a very strict hierarchy and chain of command. 2:12:49.080 --> 2:12:51.600 Dixon was at the top. She had a select few 2:12:51.640 --> 2:12:58.600 leaders below her, and decisions were made top down. Democratic centralism, 2:12:58.800 --> 2:13:02.960 which was leninistact like the theoretically allowed for debate and democracy, 2:13:03.840 --> 2:13:08.040 was really there to enforce obedience. Members were also split 2:13:08.160 --> 2:13:13.320 into tears. He had trial members, candidate members, and general members. 2:13:13.720 --> 2:13:18.000 Each level carrier and distinct privileges and obligations. An advancement 2:13:18.440 --> 2:13:21.600 was up to Dixon. She decided who leveled up in 2:13:21.640 --> 2:13:26.919 the party. Sanctions for rule violations ranged from increased duties 2:13:26.960 --> 2:13:32.080 to expulsion, the severest being expulsion with prejudice effectively erase 2:13:32.120 --> 2:13:36.040 in the individual. From party history and the party's first purge, 2:13:36.360 --> 2:13:41.280 notably the quote unquote Lesbian Purge, exemplified Dixon's control tactics. 2:13:41.440 --> 2:13:43.880 As a target had perceived threat within the group and 2:13:43.920 --> 2:13:47.240 set a precedent for internal purges that instilled fair and 2:13:47.320 --> 2:13:52.200 loyalty among the members, and then Lastly, there was transcendent belief. 2:13:52.720 --> 2:13:56.240 Another area where Heaven's Skates and the DWP had common ground. 2:13:56.960 --> 2:13:59.200 For Heav's Skater was a more transcendent human life to 2:13:59.240 --> 2:14:02.520 reach a higher plane of existence. For the WP, it 2:14:02.560 --> 2:14:07.120 was what transforming society reaching utopia through class struggle. The 2:14:07.200 --> 2:14:11.160 daily life of the WP members was highly regimented. Dixon 2:14:11.200 --> 2:14:15.240 had strict routines and expectations demanded complete dedication to the 2:14:15.280 --> 2:14:20.280 party's activities. Members were subjected to intense scrutiny, particularly those 2:14:20.320 --> 2:14:24.320 of the evil middle class backgrounds, and this method of 2:14:24.320 --> 2:14:27.680 course effectively suppressed descent and ensured the members remained tightly 2:14:27.720 --> 2:14:32.080 bound to Dixon's vision. This rerelent their schedule that had 2:14:32.080 --> 2:14:34.400 them within long hours both in their day jobs and 2:14:34.480 --> 2:14:38.080 unparty related tasks, led them little time for pursuits or 2:14:38.120 --> 2:14:42.160 outside relationships, which also helped Dixon maintain control over their lives. 2:14:42.600 --> 2:14:46.600 By limited members interactions with outsiders, Dixon minimized the risk 2:14:46.680 --> 2:14:51.280 of external influences undermining her authority, and this isolation extended 2:14:51.320 --> 2:14:54.480 to live in arrangements as well as members lived communally, 2:14:54.560 --> 2:14:57.480 which further reinforced their dependence on the party and their 2:14:57.520 --> 2:15:02.240 separation from mainstream society. The combination of these control mechanisms 2:15:02.240 --> 2:15:05.800 created a highly controlled and insular environment within the WP, 2:15:06.240 --> 2:15:09.560 as members were constantly monitored by both Dixon and the 2:15:09.680 --> 2:15:12.520 other payers to ensure that any deviation from the party 2:15:12.600 --> 2:15:16.000 line was quickly identified and addressed. The use of fair 2:15:16.240 --> 2:15:20.800 guilt and psychological manipulation kept members in line. Of course, 2:15:20.800 --> 2:15:23.560 the control was not just psychological. It was physical, because 2:15:23.560 --> 2:15:25.480 when you're isolated on your working all the time, your 2:15:25.480 --> 2:15:28.040 body is going to break down, your exhausted, your burnt out, 2:15:29.040 --> 2:15:32.480 and the emotional strain of constant criticism doesn't exactly help either. 2:15:33.320 --> 2:15:36.720 But all of this were to keep party members in 2:15:36.800 --> 2:15:41.280 their place. The contriversies surrounding the WP's methods and leadership 2:15:41.280 --> 2:15:44.760 eventually drew attention from both within the leftist movement and 2:15:44.800 --> 2:15:49.320 from external observers. Critics argue that Dixon's authoritarianism when the 2:15:49.360 --> 2:15:52.640 parties cut like practices were antithetical to the principles of 2:15:52.640 --> 2:15:57.080 socialism and genuine revolutionary activity, but these criticisms did little 2:15:57.080 --> 2:15:59.400 to all to the internal dynamics of the WP during 2:15:59.400 --> 2:16:02.440 its peak. In the early days, Dixon and her followers 2:16:02.440 --> 2:16:05.960 truly believed her revolution was just around the corner. By 2:16:06.040 --> 2:16:10.200 the nineteen eighties, recruitment was faltering, purges was narrow in 2:16:10.240 --> 2:16:14.080 the organization's focus. At the WP's aggressive tactics had led 2:16:14.120 --> 2:16:19.520 to conflict. Without the leftist groups, Dixon had grown dissolution. 2:16:20.760 --> 2:16:22.680 She had begun to see the local struggles they were 2:16:22.680 --> 2:16:27.360 taking part in as insignificant as mere reformist gestures. She 2:16:27.440 --> 2:16:30.600 moved the party from distributing a local newspaper to publishing 2:16:30.720 --> 2:16:35.200 dense academic journals. She developed a stain for world systems theory, 2:16:35.280 --> 2:16:37.720 which had once been a guiding light in her movement, 2:16:38.560 --> 2:16:43.440 and rejected it as anti socialist and cynical. In her eyes, 2:16:43.959 --> 2:16:46.680 the United States working class was no longer a beacon 2:16:46.720 --> 2:16:50.400 for revolution. Instead, she placed her faith in the USSR 2:16:50.800 --> 2:16:53.440 in Eastern Europe, in distant lands where she believed the 2:16:53.440 --> 2:16:57.080 future of socialism lay. Her frequent travels to conferences in 2:16:57.120 --> 2:17:01.080 Europe and her focus on theoretical debates needed her members, 2:17:01.280 --> 2:17:03.039 as the heart of their struggle had been replaced with 2:17:03.040 --> 2:17:06.039 her distant, abstract vision that none of them could grasp. 2:17:06.800 --> 2:17:09.840 But the real breaking point came with her change and strategies. 2:17:10.480 --> 2:17:13.520 Dixon began to see the Petibo Rossi as potential allies 2:17:13.600 --> 2:17:16.480 instead of enemies, as they had always been. A radical 2:17:16.520 --> 2:17:19.800 shit from ideology that her party had been taught beyond 2:17:19.840 --> 2:17:23.320 all that her drinking had become more uncontrolled than usual, 2:17:23.640 --> 2:17:26.680 and her abuse of the members had increased. So in 2:17:26.720 --> 2:17:29.520 late nineteen eighty five, a few of her members decided 2:17:29.560 --> 2:17:32.880 that enough was enough. While Dixon was away on one 2:17:32.879 --> 2:17:36.640 of her many trips, they gathered in secret, shared their frustrations, 2:17:36.760 --> 2:17:38.760 and they'd bear the truth over what had become of 2:17:38.800 --> 2:17:42.080 the party. When Dixon returned, she was met with the 2:17:42.120 --> 2:17:45.199 harshest reality of war. They told her that the party 2:17:45.320 --> 2:17:47.760 was over, that she was expelled, and that they were 2:17:47.760 --> 2:17:51.280 dissolving the party. Her reaction was, of course, a mix 2:17:51.320 --> 2:17:54.600 of disbelief and anger, and a final bit of confrontation 2:17:54.680 --> 2:17:58.680 with the collapse of everything she had built. Afterwards, there 2:17:58.800 --> 2:18:02.200 was of course a mesteric The members have an endured 2:18:02.200 --> 2:18:06.039 abuse for so long, including financial abuse, took it upon 2:18:06.080 --> 2:18:09.320 themselves to divide the assets amongst themselves as a final 2:18:09.440 --> 2:18:13.200 small compensation for the years they had given. Each person 2:18:13.240 --> 2:18:17.160 received a poetry sum, a fraction of what they had invested. 2:18:17.600 --> 2:18:22.280 But at last, the party's ideological crises weekend leadership and 2:18:22.400 --> 2:18:27.240 internal strife resulted in the organization's dissolution. The party was 2:18:27.280 --> 2:18:29.800 indeed over, and they could start their life on you. 2:18:32.400 --> 2:18:32.640 Hey. 2:18:32.720 --> 2:18:35.840 We'll be back Monday, with more episodes every week from 2:18:35.840 --> 2:18:37.560 now until the heat death of the Universe. 2:18:38.320 --> 2:18:40.840 It Could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media. 2:18:40.920 --> 2:18:43.560 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 2:18:43.600 --> 2:18:45.840 cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the 2:18:45.879 --> 2:18:49.480 iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 2:18:49.879 --> 2:18:52.000 You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated 2:18:52.080 --> 2:18:55.160 monthly at cool zone Media dot com slash sources. 2:18:55.280 --> 2:18:56.119 Thanks for listening.