1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:02,560 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy. 2 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 2: Grace busted the Feds finally and died a Myrtle Beach 3 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 2: pastor preacher John Paul Miller after the swamp death shooting 4 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,759 Speaker 2: of his wife, Micah Miller. 5 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to 6 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:23,600 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. 7 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 3: That is put my family to know where to find me. 8 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 2: Micah now did by gunshot wound? Her body found submerged 9 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 2: in a body of water. 10 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:33,840 Speaker 4: I even tried to raise her from the dead. 11 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:36,239 Speaker 2: Did he just say he tried to raise her from 12 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 2: the dead and he laid by her body four times? 13 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 5: Was she convinced by someone to kill herself? A possibility? 14 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 2: In the last hours, the Feds do what state authorities 15 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,559 Speaker 2: would not do. They bring down the hammer on the 16 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 2: so called pastor John Paul Miller, after the shocking death 17 00:00:55,680 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 2: of his young wife who he allegedly harassed straight into 18 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 2: a gun shop. But first, before I get into those charges, 19 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:11,559 Speaker 2: thank you Feds. Let's take a listen to the now 20 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 2: federal descendant, John Paul Miller at his finest. 21 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,039 Speaker 4: I got this late next to her body, and it's 22 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 4: been down with her body about four times this week, 23 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 4: and each time it still didn't hit me. I thought 24 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 4: she was going to wake up. You know. I even 25 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,279 Speaker 4: tried to raise her from the dead one time this week. 26 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,680 Speaker 4: And she was so creative. Everything she did was so creative. 27 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 1: What's the next picture? 28 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 6: You know? 29 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 4: I've been, I've been. I've been speaking for many years. 30 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 4: And for the first time, I don't really know exactly 31 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 4: you know, how to open or how to cooks or 32 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 4: aneath that. 33 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to play that again. That is from 34 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 2: Solid Rock Ministries. Does he actually think I'm buying this? 35 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 2: There were no tears and definitely no snot. I need 36 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 2: to see that one more time. 37 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:14,959 Speaker 4: I can't wait to see her again one day. Oh, 38 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 4: I'm good, I'm good, And that's nothing. She was so creative. 39 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 4: She it was just always just coming out of her. 40 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 1: So many things just jump out at me. Again. 41 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:29,919 Speaker 2: That is from Solid Rock Ministries for those of you 42 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 2: just joining us. The pastor John Paul Miller finally facing 43 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 2: federal charges in connection to his wife Micah Miller. 44 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,519 Speaker 1: First of all, he says. 45 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 2: Oh, after all these years you know speaking, He suggests 46 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 2: that he is short of words, he doesn't know what 47 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 2: to say, but yet he keeps talking. 48 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 1: He says he doesn't like pain. We'll get ready for 49 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: a boatload of it. 50 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 2: John Paul Miller joining me and All Star Panel to 51 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 2: make sense of what we are learning. Straight out to 52 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 2: Alexis Tereschuk, Crime Stories Investigative Reporter Alexis, the Feds finally 53 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 2: bring down the hammer. This after hundreds and hundreds of 54 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 2: online protests appealing to l E Law enforcement to bring charges. 55 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 2: What are the charges, Alexis Tereschuk. 56 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 7: He has been charged with cyberstalking, and I'm going to 57 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:33,239 Speaker 7: read exactly the indictment that he John Paul Miller sent 58 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 7: or caused to be sent unwanted and harassing electronic communications 59 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 7: to her, used or threatened to use nude videos and 60 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 7: photographs of her, hosted a nude photo of her online 61 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 7: without her consent, placed or caused to be placed a 62 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 7: tracking device on her vehicle with the intent to harass 63 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 7: and surveil her. And he intervieered with her finances, banking, 64 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 7: and interfered with her daily activities. 65 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 8: He also made a false statement to law enforcement. 66 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,119 Speaker 7: They said he did knowingly and willfully make a material 67 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 7: of false, fictitious, and fraudulent. 68 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 8: Statement in representation. 69 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 7: In this case, he said that they had been calling 70 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 7: each other back and forth. The FED said, nope, you 71 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 7: called her more than fifty times in one day, harassing her. 72 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 7: He said, I never damaged her car tires. They said, 73 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 7: you actually bought a tool to deflate car tires, and 74 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 7: this fact you cause these tires on. 75 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 8: Her car to be deflated. 76 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:32,280 Speaker 1: That's a lot from the fads, guys. 77 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 2: Finally, what many people, what many justice champions have longed 78 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 2: for since Micah's body was found at the Lumber River 79 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 2: State Park, the FEDS bring down the hammer and do 80 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 2: what state authorities refused to do. 81 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: Listen. 82 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 9: Law enforcement is notified by nine to one one dispatch 83 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 9: that Micah Miller is in Lumber River State Park and 84 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 9: they begin searching. Michah Miller's phone is pinged at three 85 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 9: twenty ps and law enforcement has a drone dispatch to 86 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 9: the area to help search. At three forty two, Micah's 87 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 9: car is located in the parking lot of the Lumber 88 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 9: River State Park. Inside the car, investigators find a nine 89 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 9: millimeters six hour hard gun case and receipt showing the 90 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 9: location of where the weapon was purchased. 91 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 2: Many debute still insists Micah Miller was murdered, but here 92 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:22,919 Speaker 2: is hard. 93 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 10: Evidence investigators at Lumber River State Park are notified by 94 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 10: a kayaker at four twenty three pm that a body 95 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 10: is in the river and a black bag with ida 96 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:34,119 Speaker 10: money found on the bank of the river is turned 97 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 10: over to law enforcement as well. Officers recovered two spend 98 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 10: casings and one live round on the bank of the 99 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 10: river and there's no sign of a physical struggle. A 100 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 10: regional pathologist is called to the scene for assistance. Micah 101 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 10: Miller is found submerged in the river beside tree limbs, 102 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:50,799 Speaker 10: about one hundred feet from the casings. 103 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 2: There is a concerning aspect to the discovery of a 104 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 2: nine millimeter sig sour. 105 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: Dodger Kendel Crowns joining us. 106 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 2: He is a renowned chief medical examiner out of Terrent County, 107 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 2: That's Fort Worth. Never a lack of business in the 108 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,719 Speaker 2: morgue there. He is the esteem lecturer at Burnett School 109 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 2: of Medicine at TCU, and he is a star of 110 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 2: a hit Knee podcast, Mayhem in the Morgue. 111 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowns, thank you for being with us. 112 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 2: The nine millimeter is removed from the river using a magnet. 113 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 2: The serial number on the gun matches the number on 114 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 2: the gun case in Micah's car. Is that feasible that 115 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 2: she committed suicide and the sig is abandoned in the river, Yes. 116 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 5: It is. I mean her body is found in the 117 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 5: river as well. So the potential is as she places 118 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 5: the gun to the right side of her head, pulls 119 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 5: the trigger, and then instantly her body goes limps. She 120 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 5: falls into the river while still kind of clutching the 121 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 5: gun or holding the gun or the gun itself just 122 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:04,919 Speaker 5: falls into the river and slides down in the mud. 123 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 5: Her body falls in floats away, gun goes into the 124 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 5: river as well. It is consistent with someone shooting themselves 125 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 5: in the head and then losing body function, dropping the 126 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 5: gun and falling into the waterway. 127 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 2: There is also the issue and let me go to 128 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 2: Regina Ward. She is the attorney for Michah Miller's sister. 129 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 2: She is with her law firm that she founded, the 130 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 2: Regina Ward Law Firm, and she has been strangely supporting 131 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 2: Micah's family since before Micah was killed. 132 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: Regina Ward, thank you for being with us. 133 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 2: Is it true the sig hour was found about five 134 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 2: feet underwater, submerged from Micah's body. 135 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 11: Well, I can't say for myself if it was true 136 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 11: or notough, but that's what was reported. Obviously I wasn't 137 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 11: there for that, but I'm I've had several questions about 138 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 11: that entire investigation. It was just approached in the wrong 139 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 11: manner in my opinion. So as far as whether it 140 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 11: was or not. Where the report. 141 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 2: Says curious that you would say that, doctor Kendall Crowns, 142 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 2: if the sig was found, say twenty or thirty feet away. 143 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: From the body, would you still think it was suicide. 144 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 5: So there's a potential when you shoot yourself in the 145 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 5: head further to be actual movement after the wound occurs. 146 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 5: It really depends on what is involved in the brain. 147 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 5: There's an area of the brain called the motor strip 148 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 5: that kind of sits on the side of your head 149 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 5: that controls your function of your arms, your limbs, et cetera. 150 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 5: If that isn't hit, if you go a little more forward, 151 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 5: you hit the frontal loves of your brain, which is 152 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 5: more memory, feelings of motions, things of that nature. You 153 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:52,439 Speaker 5: are able to still walk after a gunshot wound of 154 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 5: the head, albeit not super far. 155 00:08:55,080 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 1: Can do you're in heaven? Do you hear your that 156 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: after she shows itself in the head. 157 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 5: She can still walk, obviously, right, it is potential, Yes, okay. 158 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,959 Speaker 2: You know when a witness says something crazy on the stand, 159 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 2: I have to declare them a hostile witness and I 160 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 2: have to cross examine them. And that's what I've got 161 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 2: to do now, Doctor Kimdall Crowns. Of course you are 162 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:23,680 Speaker 2: the medical doctor. I'm just a JD. 163 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 1: You're the MD. But let me go out on a 164 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 1: limb here. 165 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 2: How many times have you seen a victim shoot themselves 166 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 2: in the head and their body is still where the 167 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 2: gunshot occurred and they continue to walk. 168 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: How many cases have you personally dealt with like that? 169 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:53,679 Speaker 5: I wouldn't be able to give you an exact percentage. 170 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 5: It's a small percentage of cases that I have seen it. 171 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: I didn't ask for a percentage. I asked you how many. 172 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 2: I bet you can count them on one finger. 173 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 5: No, I can count it on probably more than ten fingers. 174 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 5: In over twenty five years of doing autopsies, I have 175 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 5: seen multiple cases of individuals still able to function after 176 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 5: shooting themselves in the head. I can't tell you, Bombers. 177 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: While you said walk, I don't mean function. 178 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 2: You said walk, take steps after they shoot themselves in 179 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 2: the head. 180 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 5: Okay, well I'll rephrase function to walk, but I have 181 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 5: seen it, so you go ahead and rephrase it walk 182 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 5: after shooting themselves in the head, including with shotguns. It 183 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 5: is all placement on where you hit yourself in your brain, 184 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 5: and well how much you'll be able to do afterwards, 185 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 5: and it is it depends on where she's shot in 186 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 5: her brain, how much movement she can have, but placement 187 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 5: of gun. If you're going to do theoretical yes, someone 188 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 5: can shoot themselves in the head and then walk several feet, 189 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 5: maybe even ten yards away from the gun before they 190 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 5: collapse or fall into a river and float away. 191 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 2: Doctor Kendall Crowns, Just so you know, you're losing a 192 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 2: lot of credibility right now. But I guess you're sticking 193 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,319 Speaker 2: up from one of your medical examiner friends that. 194 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 1: Perform this autopsy. Doctor Kendall Crown's. Uh, the there's a 195 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: fly in. 196 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 5: Sticking up for anybody or I'm just sticking up for science. 197 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: Do I have to cut your mic? 198 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 2: There's a fly in the ointment, and that fly in 199 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 2: the ointment of your scenario is she would have had 200 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:42,319 Speaker 2: to walk through water after she shoots herself in the head. 201 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 2: How many cases have you seen like that? After the 202 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 2: person shoots themselves in the head, they walk out in 203 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 2: the water. 204 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 5: So I'm not sure how she's walking in the water. 205 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,959 Speaker 5: How she not shooting herself on the river bank and 206 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 5: then falling forward into the water, floating away while as 207 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 5: the gun floats down underneath her. At that part, I enter, Sam, 208 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 5: you know. 209 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 2: Doctor Kendall Towns, do you have a second career in 210 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 2: writing fiction? In the meantime, while I let doctor Kendall 211 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 2: Crowns think about what he just said, Regina Ward, the 212 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 2: significance of this line of questioning is if the investigation 213 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:31,079 Speaker 2: had shown that the weapon, the SIG nine, was substantially 214 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 2: far away from her, as if it had been thrown 215 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 2: in the river to discard of it after the shooting, 216 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 2: that would open up a whole another investigation, wouldn't it, 217 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 2: Regina Ward? 218 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: Absolutely it would. 219 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 11: And let me tell you something else that would have 220 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 11: opened up a better investigation, in my opinion, is that 221 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:55,959 Speaker 11: had the Robinson County authorities who were doing the investigation, 222 00:12:56,240 --> 00:13:00,040 Speaker 11: had they known about the history of this case and 223 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:04,839 Speaker 11: the sheer terror that mister Miller put her through, and 224 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 11: the harassment and so forth. Had they known about that 225 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 11: history prior to their investigation and to her death, they 226 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 11: may have approached it a little differently. I feel like 227 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,839 Speaker 11: that they approached it with the mindset, Oh, it's, you know, 228 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 11: a self taking of a life. Therefore, let's go find 229 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 11: the proof to prove that's what happened, as opposed to 230 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 11: walking into it staying to themselves. This may not be 231 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 11: what it appears, so let's look closer for evidence that 232 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:37,680 Speaker 11: may prove that it was not a self taking of 233 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 11: the life. 234 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 2: We do, however, and let's see it control room. We 235 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 2: do have her supporting doctor Kendall Crown's assertion in a 236 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 2: gun store shortly before purchasing the SIGs hour. That is 237 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:56,320 Speaker 2: significant because it can be matched up by serial number. 238 00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 2: The gun store keeps a log of serial numbers on 239 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 2: guns sold. 240 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 1: She did buy the weapon, you know. 241 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:10,559 Speaker 2: Alexis Tereschuk joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter was outlining 242 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 2: the charges in the new federal indictment for those of 243 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 2: you just joining us, The Feds bring down the hammer 244 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 2: on pastor John Paul Miller in connection with his wife 245 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 2: Micah Miller, found dead in a public forest. 246 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: Listen to this. 247 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 10: Just weeks before her death, Micah Miller calls police for 248 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 10: help when she finds a tire on her car's flat. 249 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 10: Police discover a tire deflator is used on the tire. 250 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 10: Micah goes to East Coast Honda and Myrtle Beach, South 251 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 10: Carolina to get a new tire, where John Paul Miller 252 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 10: shows up. That you get into an argument. Video shows 253 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 10: John Paul Miller aggressively walking around Micah threatening to post 254 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 10: a picture online while Micah says walk away. A mechanic 255 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 10: later shows Micah a GPS tracking device have been placed 256 00:14:57,520 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 10: on her car. 257 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 2: A GEO tracking de vice placed on her car. Video 258 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 2: has actually caught John Paul Miller aggressively walking around Micah 259 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 2: threatening to post a picture online. Alexis Troschuk joining US 260 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 2: Crime Stories investigator reporter. 261 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: What picture would that have been? The one he threatened 262 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: to post? 263 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 7: A topless photo of her so at topless where she 264 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 7: doesn't have anything on and exposing her breasts. 265 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: Joining me now. Chris Melcher. 266 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 2: He's a veteran trial lawyer celebrity lawyer partner at Waltser, 267 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 2: Melcher and Yoda. 268 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: He has deep experience. 269 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 2: In complex family law litigation at Waltzermelcher dot com. Chris Melcher, 270 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 2: this isn't helping anything that is encompassed in this new 271 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 2: federal indictment against John Paul Miller. Even if you're married 272 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 2: to someone, you can't just post nuty shots of them 273 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 2: without their consent. 274 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 12: What's going to be difficult is is that the victim 275 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 12: of these elects defenses, Micah, can't speak for herself, and 276 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 12: that creates a difficulty for the prosecution and an opportunity 277 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 12: for the defense to try to explain these things. Because couples, 278 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 12: do you know, get into arguments, they'll do things for 279 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 12: whatever reasons, and this kind of gives John Paul Miller 280 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 12: potentially a free hand in his defense to try and 281 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 12: explain away what looks like some very awful facts. 282 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 2: Such as posting nudy shots of Micah that he took 283 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 2: in private posting them online. Let's just follow your argument through, 284 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 2: Chris Milcher, to its logical conclusion. I think what you're 285 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 2: saying in regular people talk, not lawyeries, is that Miller 286 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 2: could now argue his wife Micah was fine with a 287 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 2: nudi shot being posted on social did that was okay? 288 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: That she was into that? 289 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 12: This is kind of the problem is is that he 290 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 12: can start making up or manufacturing defenses like that that 291 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 12: this was consented to, this was part of their relationship, 292 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 12: she was okay with it, it was a joke. Whatever 293 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 12: he's going to say. Now, maybe these things don't make 294 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 12: sense or they're not credible, but Mike is not there 295 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 12: to defend herself. They're not there to say no, I 296 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 12: wouldn't have done that. Now, sometimes the circumstances show that 297 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 12: no reasonable person would consent to something like that, and 298 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 12: it's just a ridiculous defense. But my sense is there's 299 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 12: going to be a lot of communications between these parties 300 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 12: and he may be able to establish something here, Like 301 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:44,199 Speaker 12: with example, for the tracking device, he's had some explanation 302 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 12: why he might want it to track her, why he 303 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 12: wanted to control her movements, why he wanted to control 304 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,439 Speaker 12: her spending. He has had some explanations around that. 305 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: Okay, well, you know what. 306 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 2: You reminded me of Chris Melcher in my days as 307 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 2: a felony prosecutor when I defend and would say, miss Grace, 308 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 2: I want to plead guilty with an explanation. 309 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 1: I don't care what his explanation is. 310 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 2: Guilty if he put a tracking device on her car, 311 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 2: and she did not consent to it. I don't care 312 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 2: why he thought he needed to do it doesn't matter. 313 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: State doesn't have to prove motive, does it. 314 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 12: Chris Melter, Well, so there's difference between being a crime 315 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 12: and being an act of domestic violence, which is a 316 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:28,160 Speaker 12: civil matter. So under South Carolina law and other. 317 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: States, domestic violence is not a crime. 318 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,360 Speaker 12: In your world, No, it can be both. It can 319 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 12: be an active abuse that justifies a restraining order. It 320 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 12: also can form a crime. But with the tracking device, 321 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 12: the owner of a vehicle, whether it's you, jointly owned 322 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:46,919 Speaker 12: or solely owned. I don't know that how this was titled, 323 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:48,919 Speaker 12: has the right to place a tracking device on it, 324 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 12: so it's not a crime to do so. But placing 325 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 12: a tracking device on her vehicle, even if legal under 326 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,919 Speaker 12: South Carolina law, without her consent and done for the 327 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 12: purpose of tracking her movements for purposes of harassment, would 328 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 12: be an act of domestic violence. But what I understand 329 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 12: his statements to be is that he was concerned about 330 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 12: her conduct and safety and that he wanted to protect 331 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 12: her and just like a parent, might you know, put 332 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 12: a tracking device on a child or any loved one 333 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:23,439 Speaker 12: who maybe has issues. That is a protective measure. So 334 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,200 Speaker 12: this is what I'm saying. He may very well claim. 335 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 2: Oh okay, Chris Melcher, Now I know why you win 336 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 2: so many cases. 337 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: You're like a snake churmer. You know, you go. 338 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,920 Speaker 2: That way and that way with your crazy legal defense, 339 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 2: and some people were actually. 340 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 4: Going right along with. 341 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 2: Crime stores with Nancy Grace, Doctor Bethany Marshall, I need 342 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 2: a shrink, and I need it quickly, Doctor Bethany Marshall, 343 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 2: renown psycho Anly's joining us out of LA. 344 00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 1: You can see her now on Peacock. 345 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 2: Author deal Breaker and find her at Dr Bethany Marshall 346 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 2: dot com. Did you hear what he just said? Chris 347 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 2: Milcher stated that maybe John Paul Miller playsta tracking device 348 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 2: on his wife's vehicle out of concern for her safety. 349 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: I guess she is just another hysterical woman. 350 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,120 Speaker 13: So did he also slash her tires out of concern 351 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,639 Speaker 13: for her safety so she couldn't get away? He was 352 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 13: afraid she couldn't drive? You know, A better way to 353 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,239 Speaker 13: protect his wife would have been to cherish her, if 354 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 13: be faithful to her, say nice things to her about herself. 355 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 13: Not humiliate her by putting a naked photo out online. 356 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 13: Nanthy did you hear when she was announcing the congregation 357 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 13: that he had visited the quote unquote body several times 358 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 13: a week before the body. 359 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: He called his wife a body. 360 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 13: It's like she wasn't even a person to him. She 361 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 13: was just an object to control. And what I'm going 362 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 13: to guess is that there was a lot of control 363 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 13: in that marriage, that he dominated her. And as she 364 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 13: became increasingly independent, which domestic victims sometimes they do get 365 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 13: their safety, he was escalating, escalating, and it just got 366 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 13: worse and worse. If he was afraid for her safety, 367 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 13: take her to a doctor's visit and get her evaluated, 368 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 13: don't splash her tires. 369 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 14: And even an earthly spouse who's a good spouse, when 370 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 14: they know that their bride is being hurt, Just imagine 371 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 14: what an earthly spouse does. What do you think your 372 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 14: heavenly spouse does when you're the bride of Christ and 373 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 14: he sees his bride going through abuse and hurt? 374 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 1: What do you think he thinks about that? 375 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 8: Now? 376 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 2: On one, what's the address of your emergency? 377 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 8: Hi? 378 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 3: Are you able to trace the location on my phone? 379 00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:00,160 Speaker 3: You don't know where you're at a national park. 380 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:02,640 Speaker 10: Where's the park located at. 381 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 3: In Bear Bluff? I have my location on I think 382 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:14,120 Speaker 3: on my phone and my phone is on. Just did 383 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 3: my siller my locations? 384 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 1: Tell me what's happened. 385 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 3: I'm about to kill myself and I just want my 386 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 3: family to know where to find me. 387 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:34,400 Speaker 13: Okay, ma'am, just let someone I'm saying, okay. 388 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 6: Let me make sure I got the exact location where 389 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:36,360 Speaker 6: you're at. 390 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: Okay, just one minute you are hearing. 391 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 2: The nine on one call that Micameller ostensibly made just 392 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 2: before she was killed. When a medical examiner makes a 393 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 2: ruling of suicide, homicide, accident, natural causes, they look not 394 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 2: just at the body, but they also look at extrinsic circumstances, 395 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:03,400 Speaker 2: as doctor Kendall Crown's many many times. Would that nine 396 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:07,360 Speaker 2: one one call be one of the extrinsic circumstances that 397 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 2: you look at to determine cood cause of death? I 398 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,399 Speaker 2: mean she's on nine one one claiming I'm about to 399 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 2: kill myself. 400 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 5: Yes, I mean that would play into the determination of 401 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 5: manner of death, as well as purchasing the gun that day, 402 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,679 Speaker 5: having the receipt of the scene as well as the 403 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,880 Speaker 5: autopsy findings of a contact range gunshot wounded the head 404 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 5: with a muzzle impression which shows that the gun is 405 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 5: held tightly against the head. All those together really point 406 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 5: towards suicide. 407 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 1: I want to go to a special guest joining us, Christianna. 408 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 2: She has detailed for us that the pastor John Paul 409 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 2: Miller begged her for nude shots. 410 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:56,160 Speaker 1: I mean, Christianna, thank you for being with us. 411 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 2: Are you surprised that the Feds have finally brought down 412 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:01,919 Speaker 2: the hammer on John Paul Miller. 413 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: He is charged with multiple crimes. 414 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 6: I'm not prie at all. I'm glad to see and 415 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 6: finally sticking in with. 416 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:17,959 Speaker 2: Something, Christiana detail for us your experience with John Paul Miller. 417 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 6: He came into a restaurant where I was working, and 418 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,919 Speaker 6: he basically he tried to hit on me, and he 419 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 6: asked me for nudes and he was very persistent and 420 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 6: very inappropriate. 421 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:35,640 Speaker 1: When was this, Christiana? 422 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 6: This was in February of last year, before what happened 423 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:41,240 Speaker 6: to Micah in May. 424 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, let me understand this guys joining me 425 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 2: is Christiana and this is not for business history. As 426 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 2: far as I can tell, Christiana described this incident for 427 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 2: us at the time, contemporaneously, around the time that it happened. 428 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 2: She's not coming out of the woodwork now that these 429 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 2: federal charges have come down. She's this is a story 430 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 2: that she has told her story from the beginning and 431 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 2: it has not changed, which is something you look at 432 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 2: when you determine truthfulness or veracity of a witness. 433 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:15,400 Speaker 1: Has their story changed? 434 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 2: Did they wait a long period of time to come 435 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,120 Speaker 2: out with their story, Do they have an ulterior motive? 436 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 2: Are they making money off of it? Are they benefiting 437 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 2: somehow by telling this story. This woman won't even give 438 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 2: her a last name publicly because she doesn't want the 439 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 2: backlash from John Paul Miller's supporters. You stated that you 440 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,159 Speaker 2: were working at a restaurant and he came up to 441 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 2: you and started flirting with you. 442 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 1: What did he say? 443 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 2: And reminder everyone, this is feb twenty twenty four. He's 444 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 2: married to Micah Miller at this time. The date of 445 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,359 Speaker 2: her death is April twenty seventh, the end of April 446 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, February March April, three months before she's 447 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 2: found dead hitting on Christiana and open at a restaurant. 448 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 2: Exactly what happened, Christiana. 449 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 6: He was I was working at the restaurant and he 450 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,200 Speaker 6: was at one of my tables. He left his phone 451 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:18,400 Speaker 6: number on his receipt, and he didn't say anything initially, 452 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,919 Speaker 6: he just left his number. But once I was in 453 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 6: contact with him, he started right off the bat talking 454 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,479 Speaker 6: about how he was going through a divorce, accusing his 455 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 6: ex wife of being crazy and bipolar, and said she'd 456 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,439 Speaker 6: been in and out of the mental institution. And he 457 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 6: pretty almost instantly started asking me for nudes. 458 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,360 Speaker 2: Let's see those techs again. Please, there is a smiley 459 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 2: face and phone number. I need a bikini pick of you, Eloill. 460 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 2: I don't know if I really have any. I think 461 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 2: most of the time when I'm in a swimsuit, I'm 462 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 2: also in a mermaid tail. Then he says, okay, no bikini. 463 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:03,359 Speaker 2: Do you have them with just the mermaid tell in 464 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 2: other words, nude? 465 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:09,160 Speaker 1: She says, no, I don't think so, Actually give me something. 466 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 2: I'm still trying to send you pics like you wanted 467 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,880 Speaker 2: a gentitle picture from him. Hey, what are you doing, 468 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 2: I'm working, hint, go away, send me a pick, Send 469 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 2: me a pick, okay, you know to doctor Bethany Marshall, 470 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:28,880 Speaker 2: joining us. Could you explain the phenomena of guys who 471 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 2: they get sexual pleasure out of just obtaining nude photos 472 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 2: from women they don't really even know. 473 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 1: They're after everybody they meet to get nudes. What is that? 474 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 6: Okay? 475 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 13: What I'm hearing in this story is that the minute 476 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 13: you met her, which was working at the restaurant, he 477 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 13: started to dominate her, asking for photos, giving his numbers, 478 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 13: saying he wants to send pictures. He's not just gonna 479 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 13: use those pictures for sexual gratification, Nancy. Once he has 480 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,199 Speaker 13: those photos, he has ultimate power over her. Remember what 481 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 13: he did to Micah He released her photo online. So 482 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 13: this is a guy who comes out of the gate 483 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 13: looking like he wants sex, but he really wants power, 484 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 13: and he's exploiting the woman's sexuality in order to get it. 485 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:25,679 Speaker 2: Christiana, did you ever send an aide photo? I did not, 486 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 2: but yet he was not dissuaded. 487 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: Correct. 488 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:36,440 Speaker 6: Correct, He was very persistent, and I tried to play 489 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 6: it off as oh, I don't have any pictures, but 490 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:45,720 Speaker 6: I tried to I was trying to dodge it, and 491 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 6: I got the screenshots of him behaving that way, but 492 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 6: I wasn't going to send him anything like that, and 493 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 6: I guess he you know, I got the screenshots that 494 00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 6: I needed to show how he was behaving, and I 495 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 6: guess he lost interest because he wasn't getting the photos 496 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 6: that he wanted. 497 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: Doesn't seem like he lost interest very quickly. 498 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 2: Okay, no bikini in other words, nude, Doctor Bethany Marshall, 499 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 2: there's another aspect to this. Okay, there's a whole voyeurism thing, 500 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 2: which you need to explain. You're the psychoanalyst, but also 501 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 2: doctor Bethany, the constant badgering. That's something different. It's not 502 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 2: just John Paul Miller sitting all alone in the bathroom, 503 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 2: and I want to expound on that looking at her 504 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 2: nude photos. But there's the badgering aspect. She said no, 505 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 2: she's not sending them, She's lol, go away. 506 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: But he doesn't get it. He keeps badgering her. 507 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 2: He won't quit. 508 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 13: Nancy. He's trying to break her down. He lost interest 509 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 13: because he couldn't have power over her. That's what happened 510 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 13: when she set her boundaries. He eventually slunk away. The 511 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 13: reason he wanted those photos not only to degrade milliate 512 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 13: expose her, have power over her, but if you're masturbating 513 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 13: to a photo, which is likely what you wanted those 514 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 13: photos for. You are having a sexual experience with a 515 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 13: piece of pain. 516 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: Wait wait, I'm not following your train of thought. 517 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 2: You've got Mica Miller in the next room, in the bedroom, 518 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 2: but you're saying he. 519 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: If the hypothetical per man. 520 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 2: Is masturbating to a photo he's just gotten off of 521 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 2: a waitress at a restaurant that he's just met, why 522 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 2: would he want that instead of going to be with 523 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 2: his wife. 524 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 13: Because when you relate to your wife, you have to 525 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 13: acknowledge that she's a full person with feelings, with thoughts, emotions. 526 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 13: Maybe a person who might say no sometimes, maybe a 527 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 13: person who wants to spend her own money. Maybe a 528 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 13: person who has friends wants to take a trip. Somebody 529 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 13: like this pastor can only relate to others on the 530 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 13: basis of power and control. He does not relate to 531 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 13: people for who they are, as though their own individuals, 532 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 13: And that's how we get perversions. Nancy like voyeurism is 533 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 13: that the person can only get that sexual arousal by 534 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 13: a picture of a person or an idea of a person, 535 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 13: But they can't sit down at dinner with that person 536 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 13: and have a full conversation with them. They can't have 537 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 13: a sexual interaction, and maybe they want to give the 538 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 13: other person an orgasm or want to please them or 539 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 13: relate to them as their own person. So that's why 540 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,640 Speaker 13: he's procuring pictures. And I think that's why Micah God 541 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 13: rest her soul probably eventually took her life because she 542 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 13: was not a person to him anymore. She was just 543 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 13: an object like he was trying to turn the waitress 544 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 13: into an object, and he broke her down, broke her down, 545 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 13: broke her down until eventually she imagined she had no 546 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 13: life and no future. And Nancy, that's where he was 547 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 13: going with this waitress. If she had said yes, what 548 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 13: could have happened to her? He could have stalked her too, 549 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 13: he could have broken her down, he could have alienated 550 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 13: her from other people, all the signs of abuse that 551 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 13: we know about. But thank god, she had the preservation 552 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 13: of mind to say no, and she's stuck to it now. 553 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 1: Everyone. 554 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 2: John Paul Miller insists he's innocent and has nothing to 555 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 2: do with what happened to his wife. In fact, he 556 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 2: is remarried. He is innocent until proven guilty. He got 557 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 2: another woman to marry him. Dave Mac joining US Crime 558 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 2: Story's investigative reporter, along with Alexis Tereschuk joining US out 559 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 2: of LA tonight. Didn't John Paul Miller apologize for sending these? 560 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 2: I mean, if he's apologizing, doesn't that mean if he's 561 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 2: apologizing for doing it, doesn't that mean he did it? 562 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 15: He apologized to Micah or posting photos of her on 563 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 15: that Facebook page. 564 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 2: Dave Mac, that is new information. It's critical for Chris 565 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 2: Melcher's theory. Are you telling me that John Paul Miller 566 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 2: the pastor apologizes to Micah. Do we have proof he 567 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 2: apologizes for posting the nude photos? 568 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 15: Yeah, they actually uncovered the text message he center where 569 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 15: he said that he was evil for doing it. 570 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 571 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 2: Okay, Chris Melcher, Bye bye to one of your defenses. 572 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 2: It's not gonna happen, Chris Melcher, because one of your defenses, 573 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 2: and I'm sure you're. 574 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 1: Gonna pull another one out of your hat like a rabbit. 575 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 1: One of your defenses was, hey, maybe this was consensual. 576 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 2: We don't know that, and she's dead and she can't 577 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 2: deny it. 578 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 12: That's right, Nancy. If that text message is introduced into 579 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 12: evidence before a jury that would establish that he sent 580 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 12: the message, so there would be no question. And if 581 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 12: he admitted, if he apologized for sending it, that means 582 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 12: he sent it, so they get that element of it. 583 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 12: And then secondly that he's acknowledging that it's wrong. He 584 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 12: says it was evil, so he would that it would 585 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:18,279 Speaker 12: be basically game over on that one element. But I 586 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 12: still do see some potential defenses on the other things 587 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 12: that he's accused of. 588 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 16: A pray that prey through would happen today, A prey miracle, 589 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 16: sovery your life in Jesus Name, in Jesus' name, A 590 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 16: pray for your healing circumstances would change. I pray that 591 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:55,800 Speaker 16: the fear inside would flee in Jesus name. A pray 592 00:34:56,040 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 16: that prey through would happen today, A pre miracle, so 593 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:10,360 Speaker 16: very Jesus name in Jesus' name. 594 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 4: Imagine being married to that. It was like that in 595 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:26,320 Speaker 4: our house all the time. 596 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 2: And that hysterical laughing, it's almost maniacal. 597 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 1: In the last. 598 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 2: Hours, we are bringing you the indictment of John Paul Miller, 599 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 2: the pastor out of South Carolina. The grand jury has 600 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 2: met and has charged him with multiple counts in a 601 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 2: nutshell of alexis trustshut. 602 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:48,320 Speaker 1: What are the charges. 603 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 7: There's a false statement which he made when he was 604 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,239 Speaker 7: lying to the police officers about whether or not he 605 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 7: had contacted her over fifty times in one day, multiple times, 606 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,279 Speaker 7: and then cyber stocking, where they said that he was 607 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:05,879 Speaker 7: intentionally tracking her, that he put a GPS tracker on her, 608 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:07,839 Speaker 7: and that he was using the computer in other ways 609 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,879 Speaker 7: to follow her, and that he said that he did 610 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,320 Speaker 7: not deflate her tires, but they found that a deflation 611 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 7: device was used by him or someone that knows him 612 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 7: to deflate her tires. And he is facing quite a 613 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 7: few years in prison for this. The federal charges if 614 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:29,239 Speaker 7: he has found guilty for cyber stalking, could be five years. 615 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 7: It could be between nine and ten years, depending on 616 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:36,480 Speaker 7: the charges that the jury decides that he's guilty of. 617 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 7: And then with the line to the police, that's also 618 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 7: another five years, possibly even eight years that he could 619 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 7: receive behind bars. So he could get almost twenty years 620 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 7: behind bars, he'd get a huge fine, and he could. 621 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 8: Have to be on probation for many years. 622 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,360 Speaker 2: So we've got count one, which is cyber stalking, and 623 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,359 Speaker 2: you're telling me he could be sentenced up to ten 624 00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 2: years on that. 625 00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 1: Is that correct? 626 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:00,440 Speaker 8: Yes, it is absolutely correct. 627 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,319 Speaker 2: And in count two we've got false statements and that 628 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,840 Speaker 2: could result in five years behind bars. 629 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 1: Correct, Is that right? 630 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:12,720 Speaker 8: Yes, so we're looking. 631 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,960 Speaker 2: At a potential of fifteen years if the charges are 632 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:17,440 Speaker 2: run consecutively. 633 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 1: Back to Christiana joining. 634 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,120 Speaker 2: Us, who says she was approached by John Paul Miller 635 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:28,759 Speaker 2: who begged for nudes relentlessly. Christiana, when you heard the 636 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:34,520 Speaker 2: actual charges against John Paul Miller, who remains innocent tonight 637 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,799 Speaker 2: as we go to air, he is presumed innocent under 638 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,400 Speaker 2: the law. He says, he's innocent, and he will be 639 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,400 Speaker 2: innocent until he has proven guilty in a court of law. 640 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:45,399 Speaker 1: Christiana, when you. 641 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:50,239 Speaker 2: Heard the actual charges of cyberstalking and lying, did that 642 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 2: surprise you? 643 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,799 Speaker 6: I think a lot of us would like to hear 644 00:37:55,320 --> 00:38:00,839 Speaker 6: a bit more than that. But in South Carolina it's 645 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:05,160 Speaker 6: the precedent for domestic violence. I in my own experience, 646 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,799 Speaker 6: I was told by a solicitor that you have to 647 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 6: be essentially beaten to a bloody pulp to get a 648 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:19,799 Speaker 6: domestic violence conviction. So it's not surprising to me that 649 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:24,440 Speaker 6: they don't always put the highest charges on these people, 650 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:29,920 Speaker 6: and I can't imagine the hopelessness that Micah would have felt, 651 00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,440 Speaker 6: especially with her abuser being in a position of authority. 652 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,520 Speaker 2: Dave Mac joining us a Crime Story's investigative reporter. What 653 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 2: was the reaction from his flock at his church after 654 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 2: Micah was found dead? 655 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:45,920 Speaker 3: Nancy? 656 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,759 Speaker 15: It was a divided block, Okay, when his wife is 657 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:54,920 Speaker 15: found dead. Half of the church immediately thought something was 658 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,040 Speaker 15: seriously wrong with this and they demanded justice. As a 659 00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 15: matter of fact, there were two separate funerals or celebration 660 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,000 Speaker 15: of life service, whatever you want to call it. One 661 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,839 Speaker 15: group did it where he was not invited, and then 662 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:11,880 Speaker 15: John Paul did it one in his own you know, 663 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,160 Speaker 15: a solid rock. So yeah, it divided the church immediately. 664 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:20,720 Speaker 2: Well, there were many many protests against John Paul Miller 665 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:54,160 Speaker 2: at the time. Listen that from the Robbie Harvey on 666 00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:59,800 Speaker 2: X and Melissa Pfeiffer. Another question, Dave Mac and alexis 667 00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:03,440 Speaker 2: t restaurant first toy you, Alexis is it true another 668 00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:05,040 Speaker 2: woman has actually married him? 669 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,200 Speaker 1: Is this his third wife? 670 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,360 Speaker 7: Yes, it is true they got married and in fact 671 00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:14,319 Speaker 7: she had a husband who died tragically in twenty twenty one. 672 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:19,720 Speaker 7: He was a quadriplegic and he drowned, so terrible tragedy. 673 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:23,279 Speaker 7: And then when she became known publicly that she was 674 00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:27,879 Speaker 7: with him, with John Paul Miller, people started questioning this 675 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,120 Speaker 7: man's death and investigating, saying maybe there was something going 676 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:33,239 Speaker 7: on that this was but they did rule out that 677 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,600 Speaker 7: any foul play happened. That he did just tragically drown 678 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,280 Speaker 7: so neither one of them has his thouse anymore. 679 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:39,240 Speaker 8: And they got married. 680 00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:42,520 Speaker 2: Okay, wait a minute, so he John Paul Miller marries 681 00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:43,400 Speaker 2: the woman. 682 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:45,719 Speaker 1: Was she a member of his church? 683 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:48,920 Speaker 8: Yes, she and her husband were. 684 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,880 Speaker 2: And the husband is a quadriplegic and he somehow ends 685 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:58,640 Speaker 2: up in a pool and drowns. Dave mack were there 686 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:02,759 Speaker 2: claims that these two were having an affair before her 687 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:03,520 Speaker 2: husband's death. 688 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:10,840 Speaker 15: Absolutely. The actual accusation came from JP Miller's first wife, 689 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:16,200 Speaker 15: Alice and Williams. She claims that Susie and that Susie 690 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:20,760 Speaker 15: Skinner was involved romantically with JP. And by the way, 691 00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,400 Speaker 15: the day that Chris Skinner's wheelchair, you know, if you 692 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,279 Speaker 15: actually see the video, Nancy, his wheelchair just guns it 693 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,160 Speaker 15: right towards the pool. This is a pool that he 694 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:33,160 Speaker 15: fought over the homeowners association putting in a wheelchair lift 695 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,440 Speaker 15: so he could actually utilize the pool. And that's the 696 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,480 Speaker 15: pool he drowns in. And it's really weird how that happened. 697 00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:42,400 Speaker 15: But when they find his body in the pool, Susie 698 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,640 Speaker 15: Skinner goes over and tells fire guys, hey man, he 699 00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,759 Speaker 15: has a do not resuscitate order because they pulled him out. 700 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:50,279 Speaker 15: He was not dead in the pool. They pulled him 701 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,000 Speaker 15: out of the water and there the paramedics are like, well, 702 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,680 Speaker 15: you got to show us the paperwork, and she leaves 703 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:57,640 Speaker 15: and doesn't come back in time, and of course they 704 00:41:57,640 --> 00:41:59,719 Speaker 15: had taken him to the hospital by then. But then 705 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,000 Speaker 15: she doesn't go to the hospital right away. She actually 706 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,880 Speaker 15: hangs out and waits for John Paul Miller and his 707 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,880 Speaker 15: wife Micah and stays with them for a few hours 708 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:13,080 Speaker 15: before finally going to the hospital hours later, where she 709 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:16,480 Speaker 15: goes and visits her now husband at the hospital. So 710 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:18,880 Speaker 15: there's a whole lot more to this story than meets 711 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,920 Speaker 15: the eye, which is why after Micah Miller's death they 712 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:25,280 Speaker 15: did bring this back out and started investigating the death 713 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:26,800 Speaker 15: of Chris Skinner. 714 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:28,080 Speaker 1: Let's be clear about this. 715 00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:31,440 Speaker 2: Dave mac John Paul Miller is not accused or suspected 716 00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:35,000 Speaker 2: in the death of his now wife's dead husband. 717 00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:36,840 Speaker 1: Is that correct? He's not suspected. 718 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:40,000 Speaker 15: Absolutely, No, he's not suspected in any way. 719 00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:40,920 Speaker 1: And neither is she. 720 00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:42,359 Speaker 10: Nope, neither is she. 721 00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:47,239 Speaker 2: Okay, But one of the consequences of his death, in 722 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,160 Speaker 2: the aftermath of his death in the pool, these two got. 723 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:51,319 Speaker 1: Married, right. 724 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:55,680 Speaker 10: Absolutely, that's correct, okay, And I. 725 00:42:55,600 --> 00:43:00,400 Speaker 2: Also want to stress again, John Paul Miller is resumed 726 00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,560 Speaker 2: innocent of any and all charges. 727 00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:05,879 Speaker 1: Yes, he has just been indicted by. 728 00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:10,680 Speaker 2: The FEDS two counts cyberstalking and false statement, but he 729 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:18,000 Speaker 2: remains innocent until proven guilty. As of tonight, he is innocent. 730 00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:23,400 Speaker 2: If you know or think you know anything about this case, 731 00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:28,200 Speaker 2: please call Robinson County Sheriff's nine one zero six thirty 732 00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:32,960 Speaker 2: one hundred nine one zero six thirty one hundred. We 733 00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:38,120 Speaker 2: remember an American hero, Sheriff Alan Weber Gove County Sheriffs, Kansas, 734 00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:41,520 Speaker 2: killed in the line of duty, leaving behind a wife 735 00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:43,640 Speaker 2: turned widow and three children. 736 00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:45,800 Speaker 1: American hero Sheriff Allan 737 00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,440 Speaker 2: Nancy Grace signing off