Speaker 1: This is Gavin Newsom and this is Michael Savage. The
Speaker 1: hell are you doing here? Why what are we doing here?
Speaker 1: The two of us, of all people.
Speaker 2: Well, we're supposedly political polar opposites, which we probably are. However,
Speaker 2: as I say on my TV show, you don't have
Speaker 2: to like my politics to like me. And a lot
Speaker 2: of people seem to like me but hate my politics.
Speaker 2: Some actually like me on my politics, which is the ideal.
Speaker 1: I love it. So we've known each other, I mean
Speaker 1: full disclosure. So folks may not know this. We've known
Speaker 1: each other over the course, on and off for a
Speaker 1: couple of decades, now right, I mean back, I remember you.
Speaker 1: I was joking with Trump the other day in the
Speaker 1: Oval office. I said, you know, before you know, you'd
Speaker 1: calling me newscom is not novels discuss Savage had a
Speaker 1: version of that early.
Speaker 2: On when I was mayor any twosome news Thank you
Speaker 2: very much. Should I tell that story?
Speaker 1: No, you shouldn't all that stories.
Speaker 2: It's got your great father involved in it. He did
Speaker 2: he get involved in it?
Speaker 1: No? I met.
Speaker 2: I was in a North Beach restaurant, which you remember
Speaker 2: the heyday of the North Beach restaurant. Come on your
Speaker 2: dad may rest in peace. Judge Newsom was there. I
Speaker 2: was introduced to him and I said, you were the
Speaker 2: Board of Supervisors chairman, and you had just introduced the
Speaker 2: gay marriage at resolution. And I said, Judge, your son
Speaker 2: just made the biggest career era of his life. He's finished.
Speaker 2: And he said, you know, I agree with you.
Speaker 1: Michael. Well, guess what we were both wrong. He did
Speaker 1: agree with you. By the way, he was always up.
Speaker 1: He was come on old Irish Catholic west side of
Speaker 1: San Francisco. And by the way, I remember you remember
Speaker 1: this back in the day. That's why you probably shook
Speaker 1: my hand. Back then, I ran as the conservative right, and.
Speaker 2: I don't remember. Honestly, I don't know what you ran as.
Speaker 2: I know that the city was. Look, I came here
Speaker 2: in seventy four. I'm an immigrant to San Francisco. My
Speaker 2: father was an immigrant to America. I'm a first generation American.
Speaker 2: So I have one foot in the old world one
Speaker 2: foot in the new. I still see a little bit
Speaker 2: of the immigrant and the native of stuff, but I'm
Speaker 2: new to the city. It was a great, wide open city.
Speaker 2: You could do whatever the hell you wanted. And then
Speaker 2: what happened was it went off the rails because ultra
Speaker 2: tolerance led to or, as I put it, Governor Newsom,
Speaker 2: when anything goes, everything goes.
Speaker 1: Got it. It's a good line. It's a good line.
Speaker 1: My line. I told my kids. I said, how you
Speaker 1: do anything is how you do everything. It's true. So
Speaker 1: you got to focus on the detail. How you make
Speaker 1: your bed, and it's what how you do everything? You
Speaker 1: actually make them make their bed, make them make their beds.
Speaker 1: I make my bed too, by the way, But I
Speaker 1: believe that. By the way, sometimes my wife doesn't even
Speaker 1: believe it because they are a few days off. But
Speaker 1: let's talk about you know, you've never taken any time
Speaker 1: away from the bayar. I mean, for all, you've been
Speaker 1: here since the seventies. Seventy four and you've seventy four.
Speaker 1: You went to Berkeley PhD in seventy.
Speaker 2: I heard it in two and a two years and
Speaker 2: seven months, which is a world record. No one knows
Speaker 2: about it. I came here with two master's degrees. I
Speaker 2: was blocked from a PhD in one of the master's
Speaker 2: degrees because the field was too advanced. And I came
Speaker 2: here and got worked for an independent PhD which was
Speaker 2: unheard of. Only seven of them issued a year. At
Speaker 2: the time, it was the toughest thing I ever did
Speaker 2: in my life. I was so proud to get a
Speaker 2: PhD from Berkeley because everyone said to me, that's your
Speaker 2: union card. You get that PhD, you're going to be
Speaker 2: hired as a professor. Unfortunately, hello, it kicked in. White
Speaker 2: males need not apply. I was rejected from every position
Speaker 2: I applied for, and I was told point blank that
Speaker 2: we can't hire you because we have to fill quota,
Speaker 2: as they told it to me.
Speaker 1: So they were very excited. Mean, that's because I remember
Speaker 1: you wrote a poem in nineteen seventy seven, right about
Speaker 1: white male. You saw that you wrote a poem which
Speaker 1: you altered the white male, the Death of the White
Speaker 1: in the seventh How do you know that you were
Speaker 1: talking about that. Someone gave you a bangground on me.
Speaker 1: I've been tracking you. We've been casing savage I did.
Speaker 2: I wrote a hot book called the Death of the
Speaker 2: White Male, which no one knows about.
Speaker 1: It's a pamphlet. Trotzky or Lenin would understand that. By
Speaker 1: the way, speaking of Trotsky and Lenin, you were hanging
Speaker 1: out with Alan Ginsburg Lawrence fer linged, yes, quite literal. Maybe,
Speaker 1: I mean Lawrence Port Lauriate, San Francisco. Oh yeah, many
Speaker 1: moons later you had some you know, interesting moments back
Speaker 1: there in North Be. Back to North Bes.
Speaker 2: I mean, ass was a friend of the family, Lawrence
Speaker 2: and Janet and I. He meant he flew out to
Speaker 2: with Alan Ginsburg. Lawrence and Alan flew they were on
Speaker 2: the way to Adelaide Arts Festival in Australia, and we
Speaker 2: had known them from New York. We know Alan from
Speaker 2: New York. And I met Lawrence here and I said,
Speaker 2: why don't you stop at our house in Awhi. I
Speaker 2: was renting a house going to grad school there, and
Speaker 2: they both stopped in. They spent a few days with us,
Speaker 2: and that was that. But Lawrence and I stayed on
Speaker 2: and on in the years, politically opposites again. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: you don't have to hate someone who you don't agree with.
Speaker 2: That's that's why I'm here, That's why you invited me here.
Speaker 1: I love that. And but it's I mean, it is
Speaker 1: a remarkable journey for you. I mean, if I just
Speaker 1: wrote out your resume, those early years, not only were
Speaker 1: you in San Francisco and in the Bay Area getting
Speaker 1: a pea HD. But it was the PhD in what
Speaker 1: it was around nutrition eth no medicine.
Speaker 2: Nutritionalth no medicine, which was an interdisciplinary PhD with epidemiology,
Speaker 2: human nutrition, and anthropology in a combined hole, which was
Speaker 2: an interdisciplinary PhD, which in order to get into that
Speaker 2: program you had to go through the heaviest screening program
Speaker 2: because a lot of people use bullshit to get into
Speaker 2: discipline and do nothing. I had to go through the
Speaker 2: toughest people at that university and explain why I wanted
Speaker 2: to combine those fields in a new field. And it
Speaker 2: was a tough interview. So I got to the PhD
Speaker 2: blocked from it. I'd written seven books at the time,
Speaker 2: but it still couldn't get a teaching job. So I
Speaker 2: got very angry. Gavin, I'm an immigrant son. I want
Speaker 2: to be a professor, it's all I want to be
Speaker 2: and they're saying because of your race, you can't be hired.
Speaker 1: It's crazy, So you really, I mean, it was that indelibent?
Speaker 1: Was that the big shift then for you in terms
Speaker 1: of your politics? Did it really become you were like enough?
Speaker 1: It was it?
Speaker 2: Well, Gavin, I was a social worker in New York
Speaker 2: before I came here, teach your social worker. And I
Speaker 2: was going into houses of people on welfare who were
Speaker 2: living better than I was. I was living at the
Speaker 2: time in a rental apartment. I had wooden furniture crates.
Speaker 2: We had a mattress on the floor and orange crates
Speaker 2: en tables. So I go into the supervisor at the
Speaker 2: welfare office and I say to her, blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: She says, well, start writing out checks. Mister Smith gets
Speaker 2: six hundred dollars for an end table, eight hundred dollars
Speaker 2: for two chairs, nine hundred dollars for a bit. I said,
Speaker 2: wait a minute, I don't have that. She said, just
Speaker 2: keep writing the checks. And I said, something's wrong with
Speaker 2: this system.
Speaker 1: And so you weren't raised necessarily with a strong ideological
Speaker 1: Oh no, your parents weren't. That's your father, your mom.
Speaker 1: I mean, they weren't out there marching the streets for
Speaker 1: a Democrat or Republican. It was none of that.
Speaker 2: Nobody knew a Republican in my family or in my circles.
Speaker 2: My father was an immigrant, and he would walk the
Speaker 2: streets and he would point things out to me and
Speaker 2: teach me what the world was about but he would say,
Speaker 2: I said, Dad, are you a Democratic Republican? And he
Speaker 2: would say, you know, Michael, he said, all I know
Speaker 2: is things are better for me when Democrats are in office.
Speaker 2: I remember he came through the depression, right. He worked
Speaker 2: in the WPA. He got a job as a kid
Speaker 2: who had nothing, driving a car for a politician.
Speaker 1: I still don't know how he got it. Who did
Speaker 1: he know?
Speaker 2: He told me stories of driving some correct politician to
Speaker 2: Saratoga Springs. I don't even know the rest of those stories.
Speaker 2: So he to him the government intervened in the Great
Speaker 2: Depression with the WPA, and it saved.
Speaker 1: Him, right, so it shaved his perspective.
Speaker 2: But he didn't understand that. After JFK, who I voted for,
Speaker 2: I loved JA. He was one of my heroes. I'll
Speaker 2: never forget how he influenced me. When I saw that
Speaker 2: picture of him and he said, don't ask what your
Speaker 2: country can do for you, but what you can do
Speaker 2: for your country. You know that that puts steel in
Speaker 2: my spine. I wanted to go out of March and
Speaker 2: do something for my country. I love that one good
Speaker 2: line can influence a person for a long time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's notion of responsibility, not just opera. It's the
Speaker 1: one piece that I think our party continues we continue
Speaker 1: to miss well. But we're going to get to that
Speaker 1: in a moment. But I just want to talk about
Speaker 1: those moments that shaped to you. I mean again, sitting
Speaker 1: here talking about nutrition. You were working in a clinic
Speaker 1: in San Francisco, Nutritionia. You're writing all these books you were,
Speaker 1: I mean, dare I say, and here a bunch of
Speaker 1: them right here, one of what, by the way, you
Speaker 1: said seven, But you've done twenty nine nine.
Speaker 2: Books published, several unpublished. So well, you know, there's two
Speaker 2: novels in there, San Francisco. People don't read novels, Abuse
Speaker 2: of Power and A Time for War. They're set in
Speaker 2: San Francisco, in North Beach, in the North Beach Restaurant
Speaker 2: and around there at the time of Lorenzo was alive.
Speaker 1: Lorenzo Patroni, that's North Beach Restaurant. So he used three years.
Speaker 2: Ago, all the Italian and all the Democrats would meet
Speaker 2: in that restaurant, remember, in the back.
Speaker 1: Room and the closet of Republicans.
Speaker 2: See, they'd meet there, and one of them once said
Speaker 2: to him, he said, Michael, you know what they said
Speaker 2: to me. I said, what they said to me? Are
Speaker 2: you a right winger? He said, no, I'm not a
Speaker 2: right wing. I'm a fascist. That's what Lorenzo said. May
Speaker 2: you rest in peace.
Speaker 1: You rest in peace. By the way, I'm survived. He
Speaker 1: survived as long as he did. He was usually three
Speaker 1: or four bottles at lunch in and then went all night.
Speaker 1: Poor man he was, but he was. He was like
Speaker 1: a bear, a bear. He was a bear, old world bear,
Speaker 1: different generation, but but it so we were shaped so similarly.
Speaker 1: I mean, I was the kid in the corner with
Speaker 1: my father, with George Moscone, the former mayor, Quentin Kopp,
Speaker 1: the former State Center then become judge all that and
Speaker 1: that shaped my political beginnings and sort of, you know,
Speaker 1: gave me a sense of what the whole political scene
Speaker 1: was about in North Beach was really the sort of
Speaker 1: it was the neighborhood city hall where real deals were done.
Speaker 2: So, Gabrett, we want to talk about I'm sorry, the
Speaker 2: personal stuff and the health stuff. I know that, but
Speaker 2: if I don't ask some can I read the bullet points.
Speaker 1: You're bringing notes? I bring nothing. I got the questions.
Speaker 1: Can you bring your question? Well, I want to let's
Speaker 1: jump in. I'm gonna, but I want to start. Let's
Speaker 1: start with this and we'll go back and forth. But
Speaker 1: this whole from nutrition is really interesting because it's very contemporary.
Speaker 1: Now you've got r fkgu You've got now new Health
Speaker 1: and Gearing Service Secretary obviously Trump embracing this notion of
Speaker 1: Maha make America healthy again. By the way, I love that.
Speaker 1: I love that. Californiak at you. You're not a fat guy. No,
Speaker 1: but it's not even about body weight. It's about just
Speaker 1: health and wellness, all the stuff you've been preaching and practicing.
Speaker 1: You were the original you were, I will say, your
Speaker 1: original bunch of things, and we'll get to language, borders,
Speaker 1: and culture. Oh wow, and Trump and Trump is because
Speaker 1: you were you know, Trump was a Democrat when you
Speaker 1: were practicing the full metal polio aware. But this whole
Speaker 1: MAHA movement, I mean, you've got to feel pretty good
Speaker 1: about that, or do you feel it's a little off
Speaker 1: based and not necessarily is it well established in the
Speaker 1: sort of cornerstone of your your more academic thinking.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I was a big element of the alternative
Speaker 2: health movement in California from the time I got here
Speaker 2: herbal medicine, homeopathy, nutrition, wrote books on it. I knew
Speaker 2: all the leaders. I knew Linis Polling, I knew Bob Cathcot,
Speaker 2: I knew Richard Kunyan. These were the genius geniuses in
Speaker 2: the field. Here's the problem with RFK Junior. He said,
Speaker 2: Johnny come lately to the field. I like what he's doing.
Speaker 2: He doesn't have the nuance or the subtlety to understand
Speaker 2: a lot of it. And even when he was appointed,
Speaker 2: I was sending messages to Trump saying, you can't eliminate
Speaker 2: the entire Health and Human Services Department. There are some
Speaker 2: good sciences and the scientists and the nih You can't
Speaker 2: throw the baby out with the bath water. Slow down.
Speaker 2: All revolutionaries, as you know, left and right, want to
Speaker 2: start from the beginning. You can't do it. You can't
Speaker 2: fire every scientist. I try to tell him that, and
Speaker 2: I try to get on the good side of RFK Junior.
Speaker 1: Without any look.
Speaker 2: Russ was skiing and asked, and if you were sitting,
Speaker 2: you know who was on the chair next to him,
Speaker 2: RFK Junior. So he said to him who he is?
Speaker 2: And he says, you know who my dad is. And
Speaker 2: he says Michael Savage, and he says, Wow, he's a
Speaker 2: great guy.
Speaker 1: But you know, I've never talked to him RFK all
Speaker 1: these years. No, I still haven't gotten to him. Interesting,
Speaker 1: despite the fact that you've been at this longer than
Speaker 1: he's been there.
Speaker 2: I would like to help as an advisor on the
Speaker 2: alternative medicine side of his revolutionary quest. And I also
Speaker 2: would like to offer you, Gavin some as the governor
Speaker 2: of this great state where I've been since seventy four,
Speaker 2: don't you have a health task force alternative medicine?
Speaker 1: Of course, No, we've been. We're about wellness, about health care,
Speaker 1: not sick care. We've been focused on all the issues
Speaker 1: around ultra processed food, free meals, nutritious meals, focusing on
Speaker 1: farm to fork, focusing on proximity to agriculture, focusing on
Speaker 1: small farms and regentative farming, all the component parts and
Speaker 1: all this, I mean a lot of it, of course,
Speaker 1: is weaponized politically. I did quote unquote the Skittles Band
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. The same folks and the
Speaker 1: right we're attacking the Skittles Band, which was about red dye.
Speaker 1: Now they're embracing and celebrating it. The kinnam before.
Speaker 2: I wrote about it in nineteen seventy four in a
Speaker 2: book called Bugs in the Peanut Butter.
Speaker 1: Is that right?
Speaker 2: It was a book for children about all the dangers
Speaker 2: and everyday foods. People thought I was crazy.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 2: But do you have a commission on alternative health, homeopathy, nutrition,
Speaker 2: herbal medicine.
Speaker 1: We have, you know, not full I mean it's represented
Speaker 1: in health bodies, but it's not fully.
Speaker 2: Represent the State of California should be leading the world
Speaker 2: in all these alternative I think modalities. You have tons
Speaker 2: of practitioners in those fields in this state.
Speaker 1: Tell are you? I mean we may negotiate fifty cents.
Speaker 1: I'm so curious. I mean, look, I joke about language
Speaker 1: called borders, language called culture, my motto your I mean,
Speaker 1: it's just indelible. I was listening to you as a supervisor,
Speaker 1: is listening to you as mayor not just because we
Speaker 1: ran into each other, not just because I knew your
Speaker 1: son Russ and love your wife Janet. You're the most
Speaker 1: entertaining person in personality period, full stop and storyteller. On
Speaker 1: the radio, you were.
Speaker 2: I'm a good story Well, I tell stories because they're
Speaker 2: part of life and education. Is about telling stories. A
Speaker 2: good teacher tells a story, doesn't just beat you up
Speaker 2: with facts. So if I can tell a story about
Speaker 2: my life and it tell it makes a political point, fine,
Speaker 2: So let me tell a political story. If I may
Speaker 2: about five years ago I had a heart attack. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: hearing Marin County. Yes, so I'm right to Marine General.
Speaker 2: I have to wait online. It's filled with illegal aliens.
Speaker 2: And the girl at the desk makes me wait. I said,
Speaker 2: I'm dying. Do you want to say what I called?
Speaker 2: The car he's waiting for me, and she starts driving
Speaker 2: me through like hooks. I said no, and I walk
Speaker 2: into the er room and they hooked me up and
Speaker 2: do this stuff. So income too, huge two hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty pound black bodyguards because they heard there was a
Speaker 2: troublemaker in the emergency room. So here's this little Jewish
Speaker 2: guy in the surny with wires and plugs in him.
Speaker 1: And I said, yeah, I'm the one who was causing
Speaker 1: trouble out there.
Speaker 2: They laughed and they left, and I said, why do
Speaker 2: I have to wait to get into an emergency room
Speaker 2: when I pay more taxes than any ten thousand of them?
Speaker 1: Do you know what. That's why we do preventive care.
Speaker 1: That's why with a different approach, because we have sick
Speaker 1: care in the emergency room that's universal all across this country.
Speaker 1: Well I told you above access all across the country
Speaker 1: who's sailors instance as you are, and sabstantially higher prices
Speaker 1: on the back end for the emergency.
Speaker 2: See, this is where we disagree, because you can't give
Speaker 2: first world excellent medical ok to everyone on the planet.
Speaker 1: Michael was going bankrupt. No, and I appreciate it, but honestly,
Speaker 1: I mean that sincerely. What would you do to the
Speaker 1: person that was just hit by a car, that was
Speaker 1: here for fifteen years taking care of your elderly grandparents
Speaker 1: in an elder care facility and they end up in
Speaker 1: the emergency room. You say, no, you're not going to
Speaker 1: get that.
Speaker 2: Of course, you're going to give them care. First of all,
Speaker 2: it's not only in your Maine, but it's available to them.
Speaker 2: But that's not what we're talking about. There are people
Speaker 2: coming over the border just for expensive surgeries, just for
Speaker 2: expensive By.
Speaker 1: The way, a few years ago, I remember people going
Speaker 1: south of the border into Tijuana from San Diego because
Speaker 1: it was cheaper to get some quality care in Mexico.
Speaker 2: Telebody, if you talk about borders, language and culture, which
Speaker 2: you introduced, and I think it's very important.
Speaker 1: Everyone knows it's my mantra. Why aren't you asking it?
Speaker 1: By the way, when was it your mantra? I mean
Speaker 1: ninety four were people talking like that in the early nineties.
Speaker 1: They were starting to a little bit right now Prop
Speaker 1: ninety seven in California. Oh you remember, so there was
Speaker 1: a little of that, but you but you really coined
Speaker 1: that frame.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I created the poll of your society in
Speaker 2: ninety four here in California, which no longer exists.
Speaker 1: And the motto, how to write a card up? What
Speaker 1: do we stand for?
Speaker 2: Border's language, culture? So nobody truly understood it. But there's
Speaker 2: not a country on earth that is not defined by
Speaker 2: its borders, unified by its language, and doesn't have a
Speaker 2: common culture. And when you lose all of that, you
Speaker 2: lose the nation. I don't care what the nation is.
Speaker 2: It could be a small African nation, a small Caribbean nation.
Speaker 2: They're defined by their border's language and culture.
Speaker 1: How old does that?
Speaker 2: People understand? So when let me just finish the border thing.
Speaker 2: Even China built the Great Wall of China to protect
Speaker 2: its border. Why because the Mongols were invading China. So
Speaker 2: I'm a total believer in the sovereignty of a nation.
Speaker 2: I don't know how anyone can argue with that.
Speaker 1: Right, And I mean there are some that obviously do,
Speaker 1: but I'm not among them. By the way, California we
Speaker 1: put down almost four hundred, three hundred and ninety four
Speaker 1: National Guards since the week I first became governor to
Speaker 1: supplement and support customs and border patrol at the border,
Speaker 1: to address some of the issues of fentanyl and some
Speaker 1: of the border security concerns.
Speaker 2: So I you agree with Trump then on cracking down
Speaker 2: on the flood of illegals into the nation.
Speaker 1: I think there's a way of doing it and approaching it,
Speaker 1: and I think we have a broader problem, which is
Speaker 1: immigration policy and asylum abuse. The asylum system is broken
Speaker 1: in the United States. You have the power to do
Speaker 1: something about it in the state, don't you. Well, not directly,
Speaker 1: and we have no border direct border except for supplementing
Speaker 1: our support, which we again have been doing for years
Speaker 1: and years and years.
Speaker 2: So he has a great statement that no one's going
Speaker 2: to expect from me, where I probably I am to
Speaker 2: the left of view on something I love with immigration
Speaker 2: that people don't understand. I know of a person who
Speaker 2: was here twenty years from Mexico. He's worked seven days
Speaker 2: a week, he's paid taxes. He can't become a citizen.
Speaker 2: That's wrong.
Speaker 1: I'm with you. Something's wrong with that. That's why we
Speaker 1: talk about the border, which is critical. Not even a
Speaker 1: traffic ticket. I appreciate you. It's not even a traffic ticket.
Speaker 1: Now you haven't So this is interesting. Just the last
Speaker 1: comprehensive survey in the state of California, and this is
Speaker 1: not a contemporary survey needs to be updated so that
Speaker 1: that sixty seven percent of people that are here without
Speaker 1: documentation in California have been here for ten plus years.
Speaker 1: Is along the same and they paying sixties and paying taxes.
Speaker 1: But here's the second majority of folks. The worker pays taxes,
Speaker 1: but they have several dependents at home who don't live
Speaker 1: on supplemental income from the state and the federal government.
Speaker 1: That is a problem. And that's that and therein lies, yes,
Speaker 1: some of the sort of dialectic you and I will
Speaker 1: have to have in terms of what's the appropriate level
Speaker 1: of support and how you deal with that's that reality,
Speaker 1: the federal failure to address the issue of immigration, immigration policy,
Speaker 1: and border We completely agree with the question is what's
Speaker 1: that pathway to address the example you just provided, because
Speaker 1: I how to do it, Gavin, I pay sixteen percent
Speaker 1: in state taxes. You pay, well, then you need a
Speaker 1: better accountant because it's thirteen point three percent. But there's
Speaker 1: a millionaire's tax on top of it.
Speaker 2: Well there's and I work, and I'm eighty three years
Speaker 2: old and I still work, right, Okay, I have another
Speaker 2: home in Florida. Yeah, I don't live there. I prefer
Speaker 2: where I live. I've gotten used to the fog, to
Speaker 2: the seagulls, to the cormorants.
Speaker 1: I know all the birds of the bay.
Speaker 2: I'm an avid, so I got used to watching the
Speaker 2: fog rolling over the Morine Hills. I watch it roll
Speaker 2: out in the afternoon.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 2: And I've always said, you got the ten zones, You've
Speaker 2: got snow to the desert. So it's a perfect geographical
Speaker 2: location for me. But there's a point at which I
Speaker 2: will leave this stake, and that will be taxation. With
Speaker 2: that representation, I can go to Florida and pay no
Speaker 2: state tax.
Speaker 1: Right right, Yeah, I mean The reality is you're we
Speaker 1: have the highest tax rate, but not the highest taxes
Speaker 1: in America. Who has a higher state tax tax rate?
Speaker 1: The vast majority of people are not you. They're not
Speaker 1: the one percent, which means ninety nine percent of other people.
Speaker 1: I'm subraitizing them. No. But at the end of well,
Speaker 1: we can get to that. But the bottom line, places
Speaker 1: like you use Florida, they tax their low wage workers
Speaker 1: more than.
Speaker 2: We tax the Gavin, I shouldn't be punished for succeeding.
Speaker 2: It's and it's a disincentive to me.
Speaker 1: I get it.
Speaker 2: By the way, should I work? Why should I keep working?
Speaker 1: Well, there's there's many reasons, and you don't need to work.
Speaker 1: I know this. There's no going of course, you, of
Speaker 1: all people not have to work. But I have it.
Speaker 2: I'm an immigrant son. I wore dead Man's pants as
Speaker 2: a kid. Every nickel I have, I've worked as I'm
Speaker 2: five years old. Young man drives to me. He's from Mexico.
Speaker 2: He says, Michael, you're an inspiration to mean you keep
Speaker 2: working at your age. I tell all my friends that
Speaker 2: not all all white people and houses don't work. He says,
Speaker 2: some of you keep working, And why said You're such
Speaker 2: an inspiration to me. But work is a sou you know,
Speaker 2: go again, I'm sorry. Rodan the great sculptor, Yeah, everyone
Speaker 2: knows his work. It's in the Palace of Legion, amount
Speaker 2: of all his work, right, love that museum. So I
Speaker 2: read Rodan avidly and Rodin said work is the only salvation.
Speaker 2: And I found that to be true.
Speaker 1: I love it. I was with Voltaire said work selves life,
Speaker 1: three great evils, boredom, Vice and Need? Who said that Voltaire?
Speaker 1: Voltaire boredom, boredom, Vice in Need? Look, I'm with you,
Speaker 1: We're not, but I think it's important. Just in California,
Speaker 1: the vast majority of middle class taxpayers pay less than
Speaker 1: they do in California middle class than they do in
Speaker 1: states like Texas well. Question of who you're for, we
Speaker 1: have the highest again, to what level we are averaged
Speaker 1: the slightly above average tax state. It's the one percent.
Speaker 1: And by the way, we haven't raised your taxes at
Speaker 1: the one percent since twenty eleven. And it wasn't I
Speaker 1: wasn't governor, wasn't the lieutenant governor, all right, I just
Speaker 1: became lieutenant was the voters of California that did that.
Speaker 1: But I don't disagree with you.
Speaker 2: Four people always vote for tax session on the rich.
Speaker 2: That's what Carl Marx taught them to do.
Speaker 1: So the thing is, I'm not advocating for increasing taxes.
Speaker 1: Haven't done in as governor of the state of California.
Speaker 1: No income tax increases under my governorship. I've opposed them.
Speaker 1: In fact, did five million dollars of ads to stop
Speaker 1: Proposition thirty, which was a tax increase run by corporations
Speaker 1: in the Bay Area that had their own special tax
Speaker 1: increase where I did ads to oppose it and impose
Speaker 1: the wealth tax in California. So we're trying to keep
Speaker 1: you here, doctor Savage. Well, I will will leave taxes
Speaker 1: go up. I know I'm working hard against.
Speaker 2: So look, I made a little as borders voting, illegal
Speaker 2: aliens voting in the state.
Speaker 1: Is that still illegal? Of course it was always illegal.
Speaker 1: It wasn't never. I'll bring a vote. But what substance
Speaker 1: of evidence is there to suggest that you have any
Speaker 1: receipts to back up that all of these people are
Speaker 1: voting illegally.
Speaker 2: I don't know that all of them are, but I'll
Speaker 2: ask you a question that everyone Look, I put this
Speaker 2: on social media and they said, ask the governor. And
Speaker 2: again I don't have to be contentious to ask you this,
Speaker 2: though I appreciate. Why does it take so many months
Speaker 2: or days to count the ballots in California the month?
Speaker 2: India one day to count six and forty million votes,
Speaker 2: Germany eight hours to counts fifty million votes, Argentina six
Speaker 2: hours to count twenty seven million votes, California four weeks
Speaker 2: to count sixteen million.
Speaker 1: Vote It's ridiculous. Why it's ridiculous, it's because it's and
Speaker 1: by the way, we've been having this conversation enough and
Speaker 1: it's a first of all, we believe that every vote counts,
Speaker 1: so we want to make sure every vote is counted.
Speaker 1: Because of the provisional ballots, the fact we do all
Speaker 1: mail in ballots, the fact that we have such a
Speaker 1: huge investments in making sure that we increase that outreach.
Speaker 1: We want to make sure again every vote counts. But
Speaker 1: you're right the time right about the right. No, the right, absolutely,
Speaker 1: the right is right, and you are right to criticize
Speaker 1: the extended period. I'm not actually a right I'm an
Speaker 1: independent independent conservative. I would what does that mean? Independent
Speaker 1: meaning I'll make up my own mind about every issue.
Speaker 1: So on the environment. I'm probably to the left of you.
Speaker 1: You what I love about you. This is where we
Speaker 1: have some interaction periodically. And I look at you as
Speaker 1: you're an animal rights guy that absolutely big into the
Speaker 1: animal rights advocates. Well, not burning down clinics or attacking
Speaker 1: people who eat meat. You're conservationists, but you know the
Speaker 1: environmentalists because there's a difference. Conservationists believe in conserving the environment.
Speaker 1: Environmentalists use the environment as a political weapon or a
Speaker 1: tool to advance I would say, a Marxist agenda. There's
Speaker 1: a big difference. It's it's like anything else.
Speaker 2: I mean, you could be force something without using it
Speaker 2: as a weapon against your political enemies.
Speaker 1: So everyone's saying the fires, the fires, the fires. Yeah,
Speaker 1: can we talk about the fire. We need to talk
Speaker 1: about the fires. It's this last decade has been extraordinary
Speaker 1: and devastating, not just in Los Angeles, but the campfire
Speaker 1: where I originally was with President Trump as governor of
Speaker 1: elect walking there eighty five people lost their lives. We
Speaker 1: live very close both of us now morin Santa Rosa.
Speaker 1: The Tubs fire mount terrible fire, one hundred housing units loss.
Speaker 1: So no, this is this is serious. Stuff, and you know,
Speaker 1: God bless there's fires going on in the middle of
Speaker 1: winter in south North Carolina and as we speak.
Speaker 2: But what about the rebuilding down in Pacific Palisades. This
Speaker 2: is a hot button issue. Yeah, shouldn't it be a
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, a special master to administer the funds? It
Speaker 2: seems fishing to a lot of people.
Speaker 1: Administer which funds the FEMA.
Speaker 2: Dollars the rebuilding of Los Angeles.
Speaker 1: Well, there should be accountability across the specters whose accounting.
Speaker 1: FEMA has rules and regulations overseen by Congress, and obviously
Speaker 1: the distribution of those fun A lot of it's individual aid,
Speaker 1: a lot of it's to the SBA, a lot of
Speaker 1: it have very prescriptive requirements that are well established across
Speaker 1: the country. But we're all for accountability. I'm for accountability
Speaker 1: and I have no problem and I think in terms
Speaker 1: of that transparency and accountability advocating for it and for
Speaker 1: all our tax dollars, not just as it relates to reach.
Speaker 2: So here's one related to it from my friend Danny Harrowitz,
Speaker 2: who's my attorney.
Speaker 1: Great man. You got to meet Daniel Hope you never
Speaker 1: have to meet him, But no, he's a great guy,
Speaker 1: are you getting in trouble? I hate lawyers. I only
Speaker 1: like my lawyer.
Speaker 2: He said, Please, he loves you, he says, he said,
Speaker 2: please ask the governor the following he said. State Senator
Speaker 2: Scott Wiener the SF has introduced SB six seven seven,
Speaker 2: which his website says is designed to strengthen to a
Speaker 2: California's landmark housing streamlining laws SB nine blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: These bills would allow developers to override local zoning laws
Speaker 2: and create high density housing in suburbs and places like
Speaker 2: the burned down areas of LA. The bills allow this
Speaker 2: intensified development without any provision for increased fire, police, or
Speaker 2: water services. He says, Gavin, you signed SB nine and
Speaker 2: S before two three. Given the devastating impact of the
Speaker 2: Los Angeles fires, are you willing to rethink your support
Speaker 2: of these bills and allow local communities to make their
Speaker 2: own assessments.
Speaker 1: Of fire and public safety? Right here so as it
Speaker 1: relates to the specific bill that he referenced that Scott
Speaker 1: Winner just introduces one of two thousand, Michael over two
Speaker 1: thousand bills we're just introduced by the legislation. Too many bills.
Speaker 1: There's not two thousand problems. I know you think there
Speaker 1: are a lot of problems. They're not two. You don't
Speaker 1: think they're two thousands. Don't think there are problems. I
Speaker 1: don't think there's two problems. There's only three. Language of culture,
Speaker 1: Language and culture. We'll get to language and culture in
Speaker 1: a second. We talked a little bit about borders, but no,
Speaker 1: so first of all, I haven't had chance to review
Speaker 1: it's it's difficult to respond specifically about it. It's not
Speaker 1: on my desk. It may never end up on my desk.
Speaker 1: Which are these bills the bill that he was referencing
Speaker 1: from scot Winner. But and that's not just me punting
Speaker 1: on it. But let me talk about the rebuild in LA.
Speaker 1: I'm not looking to up zone the palis Aes. We're
Speaker 1: not looking to make this sort of developer friendly. In fact,
Speaker 1: I waive the Coastal Act and I Wave Sequel, which
Speaker 1: is our environmental reforms to allow people to rebuild like
Speaker 1: units within one hundred and ten percent of the original
Speaker 1: foot right with the original plans. Fast tracking that process,
Speaker 1: we got the debris removed. And thank you to the EPA,
Speaker 1: thank you Lee Zelden, thank you to President Trump directly
Speaker 1: for helping. We got the debris for the hazardous waste
Speaker 1: done in less than thirty days, unprecedented in US history.
Speaker 1: We want to get the rest of this debris done
Speaker 1: within nine months. Concurrently, we're already doing housing permits and
Speaker 1: people were going to start reconstruction in a matter of months.
Speaker 1: But you got to build back smarter better. You've got
Speaker 1: to deal with the climate realities. You've got to deal
Speaker 1: with fire issues, You've got to deal with redundancies and
Speaker 1: systems related to Fire's going to slow everything down, not
Speaker 1: going to slow you that we do this. Concurrently, we
Speaker 1: do this and sort of stacking order. We're trying to
Speaker 1: do this quickly, but safely and smartly because we don't
Speaker 1: want to be as dumb as we possibly by building
Speaker 1: back in the way that we built in the fifties
Speaker 1: for a world that no longer exists today. And you
Speaker 1: have to admit hots are getting hotter drys or dryer droughts,
Speaker 1: well is atmospheric rivers. No, no, no, mister savage. Slow
Speaker 1: science is my middle name. I know, but your I mean,
Speaker 1: but your other your eyes tell you a different story too, right. No, No,
Speaker 1: reality is reality. Let's talk about climate change. If you
Speaker 1: brought it up.
Speaker 2: I up, I run up temperatures, and a lot of
Speaker 2: this is total bullshit.
Speaker 1: They're all wrong on it.
Speaker 2: The science doesn't support it. And I'm going to give
Speaker 2: you one piece of evidence that people don't want to
Speaker 2: look at, real science evidence. I did it on my
Speaker 2: YouTube channel yesterday because I was talking about the Pope
Speaker 2: and his health. And the Pope is a radical leftist politically,
Speaker 2: by the way, Saint Francis San Francisco. No, and I
Speaker 2: wish him our patron's speedy recovery. But he was a radical,
Speaker 2: you know, leftist guy, and he was wrong about environmental
Speaker 2: things because I know who wrote his encyclical on this,
Speaker 2: and the guy is a classic Marxist. So one piece
Speaker 2: of evidence, which they'll cut right out of this tape.
Speaker 2: They're called the vastork ice core samples. No one heard
Speaker 2: of them, Okay, So Russia and France, you got left
Speaker 2: and right scientists from both countries drill into the Antarctic shelf.
Speaker 2: They drill down ten thousand feet two miles. They pull
Speaker 2: up a core from the Antarctic. And why are you
Speaker 2: looking at the core of the Antarctic Because you can
Speaker 2: see climactic changes in the core. As you understand, and
Speaker 2: guess what, there were carbon dioxide increases millennia ago, but
Speaker 2: they always followed temperature increases. They didn't cause the temperature increases.
Speaker 2: People don't understand that we had a period of great
Speaker 2: flora enveloping the Earth, which produced a great deal of
Speaker 2: carbon dioxide.
Speaker 1: So it now. Don't get me wrong, though, I'm not
Speaker 1: arguing for pollution. I'm a guy a bicycle every day.
Speaker 1: I like a Berkeley graduate bicycles every day and writes
Speaker 1: books about nutrition. I believe me. I hate police the
Speaker 1: original I mean, the guy who's inspired so much of
Speaker 1: what Trump is a fits. Well, let's talk about that
Speaker 1: if you want. Let's talk about Trump and Trump is it.
Speaker 1: But don't you and before that though, because to be
Speaker 1: fair on the climate issue, I mean, but you'll you'll
Speaker 1: acknowledge well you know, I mean seriously, just you know,
Speaker 1: and you're you've got your northern California guy, you go
Speaker 1: up to Lake Tahoe, just the snow levels. I mean,
Speaker 1: these there's some trend lines here that are understandable. Headline,
Speaker 1: climate has been changing for millennia, and what you'll acknowledge
Speaker 1: it's changing. Well wait a minute, but it's not changing
Speaker 1: in the direction you think it is. We're actually we're
Speaker 1: actually entering a little ice period. People don't study history
Speaker 1: long and in geological history, we're actually entering a cold phase,
Speaker 1: not a hot phase. So climate. Remember in the.
Speaker 2: Middle Ages of fifteen hundreds it was very cold in
Speaker 2: Europe or read about me.
Speaker 1: You weren't around, Yeah, it wasn't, but it was frozen.
Speaker 2: England was for all of the Dickens novels set in
Speaker 2: the snow in London because cold wave came through England.
Speaker 2: It was a cold a little ice age.
Speaker 1: It was called.
Speaker 2: We're entering a small, little ice period on the Earth,
Speaker 2: not the opposite. So there's a lot more to the science.
Speaker 2: If you could let me sit down and I'll show
Speaker 2: you data and your scientists they're not going to want
Speaker 2: to hear it because people don't want to look at science.
Speaker 2: They only want their doxies supported by the science they
Speaker 2: approve of.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I mean, look, I you don't have to
Speaker 1: believe in science, but I do. I joked about believing
Speaker 1: your own eyes. I mean, places, lifestyles, traditions, communities being
Speaker 1: wiped off the mat. We had a three year historic doubt.
Speaker 1: The most significant drought California's history, drought since statehood, and
Speaker 1: it ended in three weeks with the wettest three weeks
Speaker 1: since state correct the.
Speaker 2: Wettest extreme is Nature always corrects, it's so extreme, correctly,
Speaker 2: I come on, nature corrects.
Speaker 1: So wait, I'll tell you. Somebody does bat last bats
Speaker 1: a thousand. Chemistry, biology, physics, that's all Mother Nature is.
Speaker 1: I'll agree with you on that.
Speaker 2: But Gavin, listen, in eighteen seventy two, it was so
Speaker 2: hot in the state of California before there was the
Speaker 2: first internal combustion engine. Eighteen seventy two, the corn fields
Speaker 2: exploded in the Sacramento Valley from a heat wave.
Speaker 1: No cars, no real factories yet.
Speaker 2: Because the climate was changing, because it always changes.
Speaker 1: Now, having said that, I'm not arguing for pollution. I
Speaker 1: you know why I I'm a theft in my mind.
Speaker 1: You know why I moved from New York pollution.
Speaker 2: I left New York in the sixties to get away
Speaker 2: from the I would be deadified state.
Speaker 1: By the way, in nineteen sixty seven, Ronald Reagan, then governor,
Speaker 1: agreed with you. He created the California Air Resources Board
Speaker 1: because of the smog in LA. He wanted to clean
Speaker 1: the Air, Clean Air Act nineteen seventy Did he do it?
Speaker 1: And our waiver was caught out? That's what Trump's attacking
Speaker 1: right now. There's a beautiful picture of Reagan in the
Speaker 1: oval looking down at President Trump as he vandalizes Reagan
Speaker 1: and Nixon's clean Trump on this podcast, even though you
Speaker 1: would like me to but Snell, we're getting along Trump
Speaker 1: and you and we still we spent an hour out
Speaker 1: but he's look.
Speaker 2: How can you ask him for three hundred billion dollars
Speaker 2: to rebuild California and spend and spend fifty millions and
Speaker 2: spend fifty million attacking in house.
Speaker 1: We didn't spend fifty million attack We hope we don't
Speaker 1: use a penny of it. We had. We were involved
Speaker 1: in one hundred and twenty two lawsuits in the last
Speaker 1: Trump administration. I was only involved in two years of that.
Speaker 1: Governor Brown, who you know well have had on your
Speaker 1: show and over the years, was I think I did
Speaker 1: years ago, years ago? Yeah, And I said, I only
Speaker 1: make the point that you're always someone that reaches out.
Speaker 1: And I've always appreciated that.
Speaker 2: I had Nancy Pelosi on my radio show proving the point.
Speaker 1: Nobody would know it. I know. I had charl Schumer
Speaker 1: on my radio show years ago. No one knows that. See,
Speaker 1: you know why why politics makes strange, bad fellow. That's
Speaker 1: why we're here up having a civil conversation. So look,
Speaker 1: we didn't put that money up to go after proactively Trump.
Speaker 1: We're doing to protect Ronald Reagan's leadership at the California
Speaker 1: Resource Sport.
Speaker 2: If you make that start, If you want now look
Speaker 2: on the environment, I can guarantee you that on the environment,
Speaker 2: Trump and I don't get along. I can guarantee you sing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we knew that in the last administration. And in fact,
Speaker 2: I can tell you a story about it if you'd
Speaker 2: like to hear it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was an Air Force one with him in the
Speaker 2: flying Oval Office. I won't tell you the long story,
Speaker 2: but we flew out of Moffitt Field to LA to
Speaker 2: a fundraiser. I got on at the last minute, and
Speaker 2: he didn't like me because I was criticizing him on
Speaker 2: the radio about his environmental policies.
Speaker 1: I'm led into the Oval Office.
Speaker 2: I was let on the plane at almost the last minute,
Speaker 2: and the guy I won't tell you who got me on,
Speaker 2: he said it takes months for clearance we got you on.
Speaker 1: She gets me on. I'm on the plane and they have.
Speaker 2: A buffet and I tend to like wine, and I
Speaker 2: was I hadn't dr so I started drinking more wine.
Speaker 1: On Trump's air force.
Speaker 2: He doesn't drink, but no, I know, yeah, I didn't
Speaker 2: think i'd be meeting him. I thought I was just
Speaker 2: getting a ride down to LA for another fundraiser. All
Speaker 2: of a sudden, after I had three glasses of wine,
Speaker 2: they said.
Speaker 1: He'll see you now.
Speaker 2: I said, now, okay, So they bring me and I
Speaker 2: swear to God, he's sitting in the most powerful chair
Speaker 2: in the world. And the minute I walked through the
Speaker 2: door to the guy who brings me, and he says,
Speaker 2: he doesn't look at me. He says, what is he
Speaker 2: doing here? Points at me like I'm a none person,
Speaker 2: but I'm from Queen's on the other side of Junia Turnpike,
Speaker 2: and I know how he works. She sits and he
Speaker 2: goes like this, like bring the Hebrew in, you know,
Speaker 2: sit him down, the king bring He sits me down
Speaker 2: and I say, he says, what are you doing here?
Speaker 2: Because he knew I was critical of him on animals
Speaker 2: in the environment. I said, Donald, you need me because
Speaker 2: I don't need you. I said, come on, knock it off.
Speaker 1: You have Hannity in.
Speaker 2: Your back pocket like a sock puppet. I said, they
Speaker 2: all kiss your ass. I said, you need me because
Speaker 2: I speak to the educated people out there who want
Speaker 2: the environment protected. I don't need you, and went on
Speaker 2: and on. But you know, Gavin, after that we settled down.
Speaker 2: We had fifteen minute flight. His valet brings out two
Speaker 2: hot dogs. They were kosher, by the way, and I'm
Speaker 2: not kosher, and I'm starving because i didn't need all day.
Speaker 1: Show you how sensitive me is. You've met the man
Speaker 1: oh many times.
Speaker 2: And he looks in my eyes and he sees my
Speaker 2: eyes down onto the hot dogs, and he looks at
Speaker 2: me and he.
Speaker 1: Says, do you want one?
Speaker 2: The most powerful man in the world, holds up a
Speaker 2: tray and asks me, I'll take one of his two
Speaker 2: hot dogs. Being from New York, I said sure. Now,
Speaker 2: last point, he's not a bad guy. He says to me,
Speaker 2: mustard to catch him.
Speaker 1: Well, that's obvious, right, No, I tell me you're a mustard.
Speaker 1: I'm a mustard guy. Got but he put it on
Speaker 1: my hot dog. So what is the point. The point
Speaker 1: is that he's actually a very sensitive guy to other people.
Speaker 1: I agree, by the way you are as well. But
Speaker 1: I've always felt that about you. I am it's a compliment.
Speaker 1: Thirty years ago. You came to a Thanksgiving party. Thirty
Speaker 1: years ago, Gavin. Okay, I said, two decades, it's been three. Well, okay,
Speaker 1: maybe in the radio in ninety four, we're Atalia Pharaoh,
Speaker 1: which you can't even make up. You subbed for Ray
Speaker 1: tel Oh, who is a liberal lion back in the day,
Speaker 1: late later than I remember that case, late late caj
Speaker 1: But then you and so that was obviously such a
Speaker 1: success and you and obviously you woke a lot of people.
Speaker 1: It wasn't a success.
Speaker 2: What happened was the program to I have to ask
Speaker 2: me to fill in for a guy on kg I
Speaker 2: never listened to because I'm not up in the middle
Speaker 2: of the night. So I figured, y'all do radio. So
Speaker 2: I go on kg O at night. I didn't even
Speaker 2: know who he was, and I started talking about stuff
Speaker 2: that I believe in, and people were pulling the most
Speaker 2: hateful calls I ever had in my life. I drove
Speaker 2: home that night to my family. I was shaken. Looking
Speaker 2: in the rearview mirror. I was scared someone was going
Speaker 2: to kill me.
Speaker 1: You literally except for raytali Affarah. I mean i'm talking
Speaker 1: about let I mean Bernie Sanders is a right wing
Speaker 1: to Ray Tali Affaarah, and he's he's sort of dominant.
Speaker 1: But so you got your own show the next year. No.
Speaker 2: No, I went home and I said to my wife,
Speaker 2: I'm never going to do radio again as long as
Speaker 2: I live. It was the most hateful experience of my life.
Speaker 2: I'm not doing it again. Next day, the phone rings
Speaker 2: and the rest is history. She begged me to do
Speaker 2: it again. I said, I'll never do that show again,
Speaker 2: and I'll never do an overnight show again. And before
Speaker 2: long they created KSFO, the Conservative Alternative. They made me
Speaker 2: the afternoon drive host, and of course it took off
Speaker 2: from there. Then it became syndicated, but not just took off.
Speaker 2: I mean you had but nine million listeners are probably
Speaker 2: closer to twenty million listeners.
Speaker 1: Which is at the peak. So I mean you were
Speaker 1: the I mean you talk about this whole space. I
Speaker 1: mean we and you know how everything's changed. You've got
Speaker 1: your podcast now radio, but you dominated this space. Well,
Speaker 1: Rush was number one. It was you Rush, Rush, Hannity
Speaker 1: and Savage and Hannie Yeah, yeah, but Hannity has no intellect. Rush.
Speaker 2: I won't say a word about because he's deceased. I
Speaker 2: won't talk about the debt.
Speaker 1: You've never been shy about criticizing anybody and including myself.
Speaker 1: Are you good about your good stuff? But I don't
Speaker 1: want to you. I mean, I love even Joe. Even
Speaker 1: Joe Rogan, which is interesting, called him a meathead.
Speaker 2: Well, unfortunately he is a bit of a meathead. I mean, look,
Speaker 2: you can't argue with success. No, and the fact is
Speaker 2: that the most number one biggest podcaster in the country.
Speaker 2: But ask yourself a question, why hasn't he had me on?
Speaker 1: Why?
Speaker 2: I don't because he's afraid to talk to me. He's
Speaker 2: had people you never heard of on that podcast.
Speaker 1: Understatement, most I don't I but you know, I don't
Speaker 1: read the time. Look, I had three hour Pucket.
Speaker 2: I had Tucker Calson on my first TV show on
Speaker 2: Newsmacs four weeks ago, which was a shock.
Speaker 1: Why because he hadn't been back on TV and all I.
Speaker 2: Didn't think Tucker would do an interview Number one interesting,
Speaker 2: he's a giant Okay, and Tucker always liked me I
Speaker 2: ran into him in San Francisco in a studio. We
Speaker 2: were crossing doing a show. He was very friendly to me.
Speaker 2: Then never talked to me again, and I invited him
Speaker 2: on my TV show and he shockingly said yes. And
Speaker 2: he's a very congenial intelligence.
Speaker 1: You thank him. I appreciate. But you don't like Glenn Beck.
Speaker 1: You called him what he hemorrhoids with eyes.
Speaker 2: Well, I believe that was then. I don't use those
Speaker 2: terms anymore. I become older and wiser. But Gavin, you
Speaker 2: know you should have Tucker on. He's very smart.
Speaker 1: I don't I agree. I think no, I'm fascinated by Tucker,
Speaker 1: but I'm fascinated by.
Speaker 2: Well, he's a liberal at heart. You know he's People
Speaker 2: don't remember Tucker had a bow tie and was on MSNBC.
Speaker 2: Do you remember that you had a three months show
Speaker 2: on MSNBC.
Speaker 1: If people can't believe that either, Jesus, I remember that
Speaker 1: I was watching you every night. Did you see the
Speaker 1: night I apploaded that was well you You expressed a
Speaker 1: strong opinion that was not necessarily shared by Manys and
Speaker 1: it was a prank color I recall it was a
Speaker 1: prank caller.
Speaker 2: They had their power to control it by cutting it
Speaker 2: and editing it out, and they let it run because
Speaker 2: they I was undermined by the team. Watch out for
Speaker 2: your team, gam I was told in the media from
Speaker 2: the beginning. It's always the people who run the cameras,
Speaker 2: the lights and the microphones will control your future.
Speaker 1: But it's amazing you're resilience. But more important, I want
Speaker 1: to go back though. You dominated this space and so
Speaker 1: basically and you're still at it to the point you
Speaker 1: don't need to do this obviously, you love doing it.
Speaker 1: You're entertaining as hell. It's not all jaical plating edutainment.
Speaker 1: Let's say there's a entertainment. Is that how you describe it?
Speaker 1: Is it? I mean, and has that been the secret sauce?
Speaker 1: It's I mean fact sure, but I mean you're talking
Speaker 1: about what you're eating. You're talking about, yes, recipes.
Speaker 2: That was the that was the fun part of my
Speaker 2: radio stuff. But on YouTube, I do cooking shows at
Speaker 2: night in my house where I can curse politicians. So
Speaker 2: if I'm cooking, if I'm cooking my Kla mari or
Speaker 2: my shrimp at night on my pan and the cameras
Speaker 2: on me and I say, this shrimp has more integrity
Speaker 2: than Joe Biden. And I'm not kidding at least you
Speaker 2: know it's a shrimp and where it came from. But okay,
Speaker 2: but I would use cooking as a foil.
Speaker 1: It's a lot of fun. So what do you make
Speaker 1: of today? What do you make of the Charlie Kirk
Speaker 1: types and Tucker that. I mean, all these folks, these
Speaker 1: new platforms, hundreds of me. I mean, they seem to
Speaker 1: be profoundly influential in sort of building off the craft
Speaker 1: you sort of led decades and decades ago. I mean
Speaker 1: they're sort of the oh, forgive the frame, but og
Speaker 1: so much would exist as well, just sort of the
Speaker 1: well in the vernacular of you know, original gangster, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm using, you know, just some language that
Speaker 1: people can know now I understand, you know, but I
Speaker 1: mean literally, it's the world you invented that didn't invent
Speaker 1: and it existed before me. They was talking to in
Speaker 1: New York. I never listened to it, by the way, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was not that interested. But you took it to
Speaker 1: another level because I introduced a level of education and
Speaker 1: knowledge and personality that never existed. People are not willing
Speaker 1: to talk about their daily so if I would walk
Speaker 1: in San Francisco and i'd go in a restaurant. I
Speaker 1: eat a lot of cheap Chinese restaurants, which I love.
Speaker 1: I would talk about the meal, and people were interested
Speaker 1: in the meal as much as they were in the politics,
Speaker 1: if not more so. And you also, as you're walking
Speaker 1: the streets express you're what of you about the politics?
Speaker 2: And let's talk about San Francisco. Gavin, Please, I love
Speaker 2: the city. I don't go over the bridge anymore.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean you should. He's coming back. What happened back?
Speaker 1: Here's what's happening about. Ten years ago. I was in
Speaker 1: North North Beach restaurant just real in November. They called
Speaker 1: me when I was in Florida, the new owners. Do
Speaker 1: you know them?
Speaker 2: Yes, And he asked me to come in. He said,
Speaker 2: we know how important you are to this restaurant. But
Speaker 2: by the way, I have three novels here. That restaurant's
Speaker 2: featured in three of them. So I'm sitting in North
Speaker 2: Beach having dinner. A man comes by, if you want
Speaker 2: to call him, that takes his pants down and defecates
Speaker 2: outside the window in the street.
Speaker 1: Not excepting without.
Speaker 2: Civility, there could be no civil order. In a country
Speaker 2: I agree with. This shouldn't be permitted.
Speaker 1: It's not acceptable. The encampments nor the tents. I couldn't agree.
Speaker 1: I mean, how you were driving? Accountability were drive? How
Speaker 1: do you not cracked down on the well, remember I
Speaker 1: did care, not cash. My body was burning effigy. It
Speaker 1: became the defining issues. When I was mayor, we dropped.
Speaker 1: We reduced the street population by third. We still population. Well,
Speaker 1: it's not a static environment. I wasn't mayor. It's been decades.
Speaker 1: PA the government half. I'm the governor, but I'm not
Speaker 1: the mayor of California, and I want to see accountability
Speaker 1: at every level of government. The state visus is realizingly
Speaker 1: it's it is turning around. I still don't go, oh,
Speaker 1: you got to you gotta Neighborhoods are thriving in San Francisco.
Speaker 1: You got a new you got a new mayor, and
Speaker 1: there's great he's he's pretty Daniel, yes, and he's cracked
Speaker 1: down on the tents and the encampments, and you're seeing progress.
Speaker 1: We're starting to see that. I hope I live long
Speaker 1: enough to eat in San Francisco again. Come on, you
Speaker 1: love eating in San Francisco. Scomas and the neverate Scoma's
Speaker 1: in my life. You never did again, made it up.
Speaker 2: We should go to dinner in the North Peach restaurant.
Speaker 1: We have to.
Speaker 2: Let's go in when you're ready for it, and then
Speaker 2: I'll tell the story on my podcast. So, Gavin, the
Speaker 2: homeless thing is the turning point. When that man defecated
Speaker 2: outside the window, that was the beginning of the end
Speaker 2: of San Francisco for it not only for me, but
Speaker 2: for the whole city. Because the cops couldn't do anything
Speaker 2: about it. The hands were tied by this small band
Speaker 2: of radical left wingers who were saying they're sacred, you
Speaker 2: can't touch them.
Speaker 1: I mean, look when I was there, when I was mayor,
Speaker 1: you may recall this. I did a sit Lie ordnance.
Speaker 1: I did this anti panantling ordnance. I did care not cash,
Speaker 1: converting welfare checks to services and accountability. We saw real progress.
Speaker 1: I've been very AGGRESSI Savanna encampments, just did a new
Speaker 1: executive order in the state and we're flooding the zone
Speaker 1: with state support and a way we've never done in
Speaker 1: the past. When I got there, Michael, this is important.
Speaker 1: There was never a governor that actually there was no
Speaker 1: homeless plan in the state of California. There was no
Speaker 1: support for cities and counties, and it felt that way
Speaker 1: we had under Schwartzenegger. It's not a knock on ar Old,
Speaker 1: but goes back to two thousand and five. We had
Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty eight thousand homeless in California. It's
Speaker 1: not new. What's happened metastasized into a cancer after especially
Speaker 1: during COVID and what's happening the street.
Speaker 2: We're blaming COVID, but you know, no civil society would
Speaker 2: tolerate this, Gavin, And here's my position on it, and
Speaker 2: it's something you're not going to like to hear. There
Speaker 2: is a solution to the homeless problem, which is ended well,
Speaker 2: you build camps for them in places outside cities, and
Speaker 2: you give them the care that they need against their will.
Speaker 2: You don't let them shoot up in the streets, you
Speaker 2: don't let them defecate or urinate or beat up old
Speaker 2: women in the streets. You take them off the streets.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with focus A one hundred percent, agree
Speaker 1: with broadly with that settiment in terms of cohercion. Just
Speaker 1: so you know, we just did two major reforms we've
Speaker 1: had all these old conservatorship laws that are weak. We
Speaker 1: finally have strengthened conservativeship law so we can begin to
Speaker 1: get people off the streets. We also established a new
Speaker 1: paradigm called care Court, which is a whole new strategy
Speaker 1: to also help in advance to address that subset of people.
Speaker 1: And we did the most significant mental health reforms and
Speaker 1: investments in state's history. That those resources are going out
Speaker 1: to do regional centers along the lines of what you're suggesting,
Speaker 1: taking them against the way different paradigm of thinking more
Speaker 1: supportive care as opposed to substituted care in the vernacular
Speaker 1: of all the quote unquote experts, and we're trying to
Speaker 1: make up for this. And you'll appreciate this as a
Speaker 1: California in nineteen fifty nine, at peak nineteen fifty nine,
Speaker 1: California had thirty seven thousand mental health beds. Today five
Speaker 1: five hundred corect. Oh you're agreeing, OK, reopen to the
Speaker 1: mental hospitals for double the population today. So we had
Speaker 1: half the population in the late fifties and sixties, of course,
Speaker 1: and we had thirty seven thousand. So what we're doing,
Speaker 1: we just did this initiative Proposition one to provide six
Speaker 1: plus thousand new units that were all throughout the state.
Speaker 1: And we're regionalizing along the lines of what you're saying,
Speaker 1: mental hospitals, literally, behavior health, subsecuse mental health and literally
Speaker 1: it's the biggest investments in US history, biggest investments. Or
Speaker 1: do they have to comply? That's what the Conservatorship Reform
Speaker 1: SB forty three was about. That's what our care Court
Speaker 1: is about.
Speaker 2: And we so if a guide defecates outside a restaurant window,
Speaker 2: a copkin and restaurants send him to one of these facilities.
Speaker 1: They can refer them through the care Court. In fact,
Speaker 1: a police officer quite literally now because of my care
Speaker 1: court can refer. In the past, they could not refer
Speaker 1: that individual.
Speaker 2: Well, I hope it works. Look, we all have a
Speaker 2: lot at stake in this state and in this city.
Speaker 2: It's why I don't leave, because I still love the
Speaker 2: state in the city. But if it's intolerable at a
Speaker 2: certain point, everyone will leave.
Speaker 1: Business is a leaving. It's interesting, Well business, we have
Speaker 1: more fortune five hundred companies than anytime the last deck.
Speaker 2: Well, why did they kick SpaceX out?
Speaker 1: Why would you take SpaceX is not being kicked out, well,
Speaker 1: they can't launch their rockets because of the coastal And
Speaker 1: you saw what did I do? I joined in the law.
Speaker 1: I literally said, I'm with Elon Musk attacking the Coastal Commission.
Speaker 1: I couldn't have been I was very vocal, and then
Speaker 1: you were really acceptable. We had fifty one launches last year,
Speaker 1: which is a record since nineteen seventy four. Why would
Speaker 1: you not want a rocket company in California. We have
Speaker 1: the Mohave Desert, we have Vanderberg, and we have Rocket Beach,
Speaker 1: which is Long Beach. We're starting to dominating this space
Speaker 1: I hope so. And we have record breaking launches out
Speaker 1: of Vanderberg. We're making with relativity, not just SpaceX all
Speaker 1: of the year. You don't want to go to Mars,
Speaker 1: do you? I'm not personally. I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people like Elon want me to go to Mars. I
Speaker 1: don't want to go. I don't even want to go
Speaker 1: over the bridget talk one and we're out of time,
Speaker 1: but I wanted just before we're done, I do want
Speaker 1: to talk about Trump and Trump is you have to
Speaker 1: be pretty proud that the issues of border in language
Speaker 1: of culture. I mean, the president just came out saying
Speaker 1: the English is that's right out of my mantra. Right,
Speaker 1: I mean, this is stuff you've been preaching for decades. Okay.
Speaker 2: Salon Magazine, left wing magazine a number of years ago,
Speaker 2: when Trump was president, wrote an article called the Father
Speaker 2: of Trump a mania and it was about Michael Savage
Speaker 2: and it was sort of middle ground, wasn't attacking. And
Speaker 2: I was told by one of his chief architects, who
Speaker 2: I will not mention, shortly after he was elected the
Speaker 2: first time he visited me in my home in Florida,
Speaker 2: and he said, Michael, we took all of your books,
Speaker 2: we made talking points, he ran on your platform. I said, okay, fine,
Speaker 2: because I know he was a liberal when he was
Speaker 2: young in New York. I was a social worker and
Speaker 2: a democrat. So people change one day. You may be
Speaker 2: a conservative without even knowing it. But no, but Gavin,
Speaker 2: so yeah, I'm the father of a lot of what
Speaker 2: he's doing. I was honored to see Boarders life. But
Speaker 2: no one's called me from the White House and said
Speaker 2: we want to give you the Presidential Medal of Freedom,
Speaker 2: and we recognize that you did this.
Speaker 1: We think you're great. No one's called how do you
Speaker 1: think that's the case.
Speaker 2: It's interesting because in every political entity there are politics.
Speaker 1: I'm not involved at all with the in crowd. I
Speaker 1: don't know them.
Speaker 2: You mentioned Charlie Kirk.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't know. I have all of these sea packs.
Speaker 1: I've never spoken at any of these announts. I didn't
Speaker 1: think about that you have. Do you have the equivalent
Speaker 1: of a Presidential Medal of Freedom in the state of California?
Speaker 1: We do California Hall of Fame? Here in the Radio
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame. I'm in. I'm in the National Radio
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame. But why am I? Okay? You know, Gavin,
Speaker 1: it's by the way, thank you for asking that question.
Speaker 1: It's a good question. I should be in it. You
Speaker 1: want things to be lit up, you want me to
Speaker 1: I want to build board on the highway again. I'm
Speaker 1: going to announce you in the California Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1: That will light things up, mister Savage.
Speaker 2: But I I came here in seventy four. Look what
Speaker 2: I've done in this state.
Speaker 1: No, I'm believing you haven't left the state. For a
Speaker 1: lot of these guys turn their back on California as
Speaker 1: they're attacking it. You have it, so I admire that
Speaker 1: I do.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't have to agree with you, nor
Speaker 2: you with me. For us to sit and have a
Speaker 2: civilized conversation. It's the only way we're going to solve
Speaker 2: the problems of the state and the country. Right, and
Speaker 2: I feel the same thing about the country itself. The
Speaker 2: left and the right already each other's throats to hate
Speaker 2: each other, and they would like me to have been
Speaker 2: on this podcast and be screaming and yelling like a
Speaker 2: foaming idiot. We get nowhere with that.
Speaker 1: It's idiotic and though, and the whole point of this
Speaker 1: is not to have those conversations because those I can
Speaker 1: hear twenty four to seven on Spotify.
Speaker 2: It's bad for my health, number one, and I don't
Speaker 2: feel that that gets us anywhere. But before we leave,
Speaker 2: you brought up Trump and the border's language culture, and
Speaker 2: then you brought up the things you know. I have
Speaker 2: to thank you for the Bancroft Library and the jets
Speaker 2: in our barium. I think this should be in your
Speaker 2: podcast because people say, why are you so nice to
Speaker 2: Gavin us? Well, I'm not that nice to Gavin Newsom.
Speaker 2: I just don't go out of my way to insult people.
Speaker 2: Just for the sake of sounding like an idiot, so
Speaker 2: a lot of people do.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: I reached out to you about five years ago, and
Speaker 2: I said that I have the University of Texas is
Speaker 2: interested in collecting all of my writings, all of my manuscripts,
Speaker 2: my journals. And I said, they really naturally belong here
Speaker 2: in California. And you reached out and through the chain,
Speaker 2: the Bancroft Library came back to me and they spent
Speaker 2: two years with me in my archives, taking all of
Speaker 2: my correspondence, my writings, and you know, they have the
Speaker 2: largest collection of Mark Twain papers in the world. And
Speaker 2: I said to the libraryan it was a lovely lady.
Speaker 2: I said, don't you feel a little uncomfortable that I'm
Speaker 2: so called a conservative? She said, Michael, we're not here
Speaker 2: at the judge politics. We have conservative authors who are Californians,
Speaker 2: liberal authors or Californians. And she said, you have done
Speaker 2: so much in your life. She said, you have three phases.
Speaker 2: You're a poet and a novelist, then you were a
Speaker 2: botanist and a nutrition writer. Then you're a payment political writer.
Speaker 2: And she said, we need that in our library. And
Speaker 2: then I have a collection of medicinal plants, Gamant, they're
Speaker 2: in the jets in her Barian They're in seven her
Speaker 2: barrier around the world, Jepson is won. These are the
Speaker 2: plants I collected, medicinal plants. Yeah, you know where else
Speaker 2: they are or Moscow Herbarium. I've never been there. Q Gardens, London,
Speaker 2: New York Botanical Garden, Chicago Herbarium, and the Honolu Bishop Museum.
Speaker 2: So we have a rare collection of all my collections
Speaker 2: in the jets in barbarium. Again, this is for scientists
Speaker 2: to look at for agents, and it's here.
Speaker 1: And I want to thank you for.
Speaker 2: Opening the doors because another governor just said, you know,
Speaker 2: go pound sand I'm not interested.
Speaker 1: No, I appreciate it, and it was an honor to
Speaker 1: be However, a health I don't know how much help
Speaker 1: are you. I mean, this was on all of it,
Speaker 1: on the merits substantively, and everyone doing the right thing.
Speaker 1: But when they don't do the right thing, I call
Speaker 1: it out. I can't stand cancel culture. I love free speech.
Speaker 1: I can't stand when someone people I remember Bill Maher
Speaker 1: was going to Berkeley or something and they said Bill's
Speaker 1: too conservative, it was too controversial. I've never liked that
Speaker 1: called it out then will continue to. So I don't
Speaker 1: think anyone served in that respect, all these banning and
Speaker 1: cultural purges that people have been on. I don't believe
Speaker 1: in the mao cultural say No. I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people assign and attach those points of view to me.
Speaker 1: But let me ask you in closing, Oh are you
Speaker 1: putting me in the California Hall of Fame? You're gonna
Speaker 1: put me on this spot by the way you've made.
Speaker 1: You just made the most compelling case you possibly could
Speaker 1: have for the multi dimensionality. Here. There are people in
Speaker 1: that Hall of Fame that have done basically one simple thing,
Speaker 1: and here you are twenty nine books, best selling books
Speaker 1: across the spectrum of issues and ahead a novelist, I know.
Speaker 1: And you were banned from the UK. Oh yeah, and
Speaker 1: you know that what they called you? What propaganda hate
Speaker 1: or what was the exact phrase?
Speaker 2: I mean, the only hell American author banned in Britain. Yeah,
Speaker 2: for things I didn't even say. It was a terrible,
Speaker 2: terrible thing to do to me. And I woke up
Speaker 2: that morning I saw it on the Drudge Report at
Speaker 2: the time, and I said, oh my god, I'm banned
Speaker 2: in England. So I went in the radio show and
Speaker 2: I said, God, there goes the great cuisine that they're
Speaker 2: known for in my dental care that I was looking
Speaker 2: forward to of that line. But I think it's a
Speaker 2: terrible thing to do to me, because first of all,
Speaker 2: I didn't say the things they said I said. Secondly,
Speaker 2: I spent four hundred thousand dollars to try to get
Speaker 2: my name off the list, and I've not did not succeed.
Speaker 1: I gave up. I don't even care still on it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't go to England to this day, I cannot
Speaker 1: enter England, the land of the Free and the land
Speaker 1: of the Magna Carter does not let Michael Savage in,
Speaker 1: but they let Jihadis run around screaming kill the Queen.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna argue with you, no, Stormer. I don't
Speaker 1: I think we have met. Have you met? Smer bring
Speaker 1: it up. We'll have to bring it up. Let me
Speaker 1: ask you, just get me off the list. Let me
Speaker 1: ask you this. Let me if you were going to list.
Speaker 1: Speaking of lists, you know, Democrats, if they're not trying
Speaker 1: to figure out what the hell just happened, they sure
Speaker 1: as hell should right. So I'm serious about this. I'm
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not asking for sort of a flippant
Speaker 1: It's not a flipping question, and I hope certainly not patronizing,
Speaker 1: But what the hell do you think our party needs
Speaker 1: to do? And what what's the biggest lesson? Seriously, are
Speaker 1: you really sei Michael Savage to the Democrat advice to
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party was it because we're too woke? Because
Speaker 1: we didn't focus on borders? I mean is it's what
Speaker 1: is really straightforward? It is borders, language and culture. And
Speaker 1: the thing that triggered most of the people who turned
Speaker 1: against the Democrat Party this was this incessant drum beat
Speaker 1: going back years vilifying the white male, white supremacy, white supremacy,
Speaker 1: white remember that that became a mantra of the Democrat Party.
Speaker 2: They took all the working class white guys and said,
Speaker 2: what the fuck you basically pardon me, what are you doing?
Speaker 1: Man?
Speaker 2: We work, we are also citizens. Why are you turning
Speaker 2: us into Hitler's because you know so, that's what was
Speaker 2: one thing. Then the illegals getting free care, and then
Speaker 2: the illegals voting in some municipal elections. Those, but the
Speaker 2: big thing was the women. When you had people with
Speaker 2: the right or whatever you want to know.
Speaker 1: The whole trans issue triggered the women who were normally liberal.
Speaker 1: But when you have kids being brainwashed in school to
Speaker 1: accept that stuff in little in kindergarten, Hey, I'm a
Speaker 1: sexual libertarian. I want to be very clear. Okay, I
Speaker 1: really don't care what people do to make themselves happy. Okay,
Speaker 1: this is not my business. Life is very hard. If
Speaker 1: you can be happy with someone, God bless you, but
Speaker 1: leave the kids alone. That's the whole point. And when
Speaker 1: you start crossing that line into the schools, you're going
Speaker 1: to see what happened. That's what just happened. It was
Speaker 1: the women and the schools. I think, Gavin interesting, So
Speaker 1: I mean the trans issue. You thought that, I mean
Speaker 1: that it was a children issue. It wasn't a trans
Speaker 1: No one was against. So it was a gener assignment
Speaker 1: surgeries for these miners. Yes, where Yeah, I felt that
Speaker 1: our party was complicit in terms of creating those conditions.
Speaker 2: I don't think so promoting it to some degree, you
Speaker 2: would argue, I wouldn't even go there. I would say
Speaker 2: that the people had had enough. There were so many
Speaker 2: more important issues God, faith in reason. I mean, there's
Speaker 2: a spirit we didn't even get let's do another podcast.
Speaker 1: In a month. I know, talk about God and which
Speaker 1: is a big part of your life. Faith? People don't
Speaker 1: know that big part. I pray every day and have
Speaker 1: for decades. You have, and you are, You're by the way,
Speaker 1: And then we're going to close on this. You are
Speaker 1: ascending to a unique status. Shocking, isn't it? Well, no,
Speaker 1: tell us about it.
Speaker 2: The president of a local Jewish community. Yeah, and from
Speaker 2: a very orthodox group of Jewish people. The guys that
Speaker 2: wear black, the black hat people, they like me, and
Speaker 2: I say to them, I'm not that religious. Why do
Speaker 2: you want me to become reaching out to the community.
Speaker 2: They said, you're more religious than us in some ways.
Speaker 2: They watch my podcasts and they don't watch the media.
Speaker 2: They know that there's a spiritual element to Michael that's palpable,
Speaker 2: that emanates, and.
Speaker 1: They like it.
Speaker 2: It's that simple. But does that mean I'm holier than anyone?
Speaker 2: I am such a fallen angel, Gavin.
Speaker 1: Well, it's good to be with another fallen angel. Still
Speaker 1: on that one. It's great to have you, Michael Savage.
Speaker 1: Thanks for being here with