Speaker 1: Hello, Hello, this is George, and this is your final
Speaker 1: reminder if you live in Philly, Boston, or in New
Speaker 1: York City, that this is your last chance to see
Speaker 1: me do stand up comedy before I record my special
Speaker 1: on April first. If you are in Philly, the show
Speaker 1: is tomorrow. I repeat tomorrow. If you are listening to
Speaker 1: this on Tuesday, the show is Wednesday, March twelfth at Philamocha,
Speaker 1: featuring Sam Ruddy, who is one of my absolute faves.
Speaker 1: If you are in Boston March twentieth, there are two shows,
Speaker 1: an early show and a late show. And if you're
Speaker 1: in New York, I'm doing Joe's Pub on Monday, March
Speaker 1: twenty fourth, and I hope to see you there. I
Speaker 1: love Philly, I love Boston, I love New York City.
Speaker 1: And after April first, you will never hear from me
Speaker 1: again for like a month or two. Well, enjoy the show.
Speaker 1: This is a special one. Bye.
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, Now I'm rethinking what if we start out
Speaker 2: sort of with our maybe Okay, So first of all,
Speaker 2: I think format wise, it's you know, discussing the time
Speaker 2: that has passed, you know, how we were here for CHROMATICA,
Speaker 2: what has come what has passed?
Speaker 1: Did Sam tell you that I like, I really like
Speaker 1: your idea, Sam of so, the first time you were
Speaker 1: on for Gaga, it was Lady Gaga in the Passage
Speaker 1: of Time, and this is going to be Lady Gaga
Speaker 1: in the Passage of Time part two that I love.
Speaker 1: And so I actually think the fact that she said
Speaker 1: her age on SNL, which is insane, like, oh, I
Speaker 1: think our way in is like the passage of time.
Speaker 1: You don't like that.
Speaker 3: I don't want to.
Speaker 1: I don't want to.
Speaker 2: We're keeping this in by the way, Okay, so, and
Speaker 2: then I think we will have to do a track
Speaker 2: by track and then.
Speaker 3: Where we list our health conditions with each one or
Speaker 3: since the since twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: I'm crying. Okay, let's just start.
Speaker 1: But I do actually think it would be funny to
Speaker 1: keep in the last like two minutes.
Speaker 2: Fine, okat podcast starts now. Welcome little monsters, like big monsters.
Speaker 2: More like big monsters. So we are here today with
Speaker 2: a very very special episode because you know, we're throwing
Speaker 2: our whole framework out the window and we're saying enough,
Speaker 2: it's time for us to become what we were meant
Speaker 2: to be, which is a Lady Gaga Stand Podcast.
Speaker 1: Goga Recap podcast, The Week in Gaga.
Speaker 2: So, last time on Lady Gaga, it was twenty twenty
Speaker 2: and oh.
Speaker 1: My god, what is it? Twenty twenty? Not even twenty one.
Speaker 2: It was twenty twenty. The vaccine was nowhere to be found.
Speaker 2: We were locked in our homes and we had Amy
Speaker 2: Zimmer on to discuss the release of not Chromatica, but
Speaker 2: rain on me, just rain on me. Chromatica had not
Speaker 2: come out yet.
Speaker 1: Oh I didn't even know that.
Speaker 2: And so that episode was titled Lady Gaga in the
Speaker 2: Passage of Time. And so now you are entering Lady
Speaker 2: Gaga in the Passage of Time, Part two with our
Speaker 2: guest Amy Zimmer. Welcome to the podcast, Amy Zimmer, Hi.
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: I do want to say one thing, which is that
Speaker 1: podcast episode produced one of Amy's big, biggest ideas of
Speaker 1: many there are many things Amy says that kind of
Speaker 1: I put away in the in the library of my mind,
Speaker 1: and I say, in the spank bank, in this in
Speaker 1: this bank bank, in my intellectual spank bank, and I say,
Speaker 1: when you need to jerk it intellectually, you can always
Speaker 1: reach for these. You can always go into the Amy folder.
Speaker 1: And one of those things is when Amy said lady
Speaker 1: like respect Lady Gaga, something along the lines of like
Speaker 1: Lady Gaga means the twenty tens meant something like to
Speaker 1: let go of Lady Gaga completely, to be like, you're
Speaker 1: hopeless means that the twenty tens were for nothing. So
Speaker 1: like you have to respect Lady Gaga. If you think
Speaker 1: the twenty tens had any significance and can be salvageable
Speaker 1: in any way, well, I.
Speaker 3: Think that is hung in high relief now when you
Speaker 3: say yeah, and.
Speaker 1: It actually is funny to think now now I think
Speaker 1: of that as so long ago, but you said that
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty, so it really was about the decade
Speaker 1: that had just ended. I mean, this was very kind of,
Speaker 1: you know, a New York Times opinion section, like, let's
Speaker 1: take stock of the last decade.
Speaker 3: It's amazing because I completely black out eighty five percent
Speaker 3: of that episode. And to hear what I said back
Speaker 3: to me about twenty years later, it's really profound. But
Speaker 3: I agree with that. Yeah, sure, and I think you
Speaker 3: know what a what a tragic patina it has now come.
Speaker 1: The patina feeling tragic. First of all, the feeling when
Speaker 1: the Patina is tragic. Second of all that Patina, it's
Speaker 1: like it's like The Titanic. It's the first scenes of
Speaker 1: The Titanic where the little camera is under the water
Speaker 1: and they're finding things and they're all covered in that
Speaker 1: sort of like chunky, chunky substance where.
Speaker 3: Little cameras are under the water. That's pretty much where
Speaker 3: we're at, I would say, I think, I.
Speaker 1: Mean, I guess the twenty tens are sort of you know,
Speaker 1: the Titanic main narrative Leo Rose and in the twenty
Speaker 1: twenties are more little camera under the water finding chunky substance.
Speaker 2: I mean, no more than ever. I I almost want
Speaker 2: to start with just so listeners. I don't know if
Speaker 2: they know with all of our relationships with Lady Gaga. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Amy Abe, please kick this off really even if if
Speaker 2: it because since we talked, Chramatica has come out, there
Speaker 2: was a tour, there's been a whole and then now
Speaker 2: a new album. I want to know if anything of
Speaker 2: your relationship with her has changed in the last five years.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think it would be a little a little
Speaker 3: uh distressing if it hadn't. I actually think this entire
Speaker 3: what it seems to be like her sort of promotional
Speaker 3: cycle around this album. Is that how much things have changed,
Speaker 3: you know, which is a big part of time. I
Speaker 3: don't know if you know about this, but I would
Speaker 3: say yeah. I mean there's always something that changes in
Speaker 3: your relationship to a mega pop star in the course
Speaker 3: of a life. And I also think, who who I
Speaker 3: am since I even said that, has changed a lot.
Speaker 1: So yeah, since you just said that, like since you said.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well that's yeah, the Mayhem of my mystery.
Speaker 3: Oh but there is something eternal I think to being
Speaker 3: interested in her work, which is too like constantly sort
Speaker 3: of not know how you're feeling at any given moment
Speaker 3: until you do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a productive ambiguity there.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So as I want to know, like as Mayhem
Speaker 2: is coming out, you know, tell us what's going through
Speaker 2: your brain? Tell us if it's sort of the emotions
Speaker 2: that it's sparking as she's promoting. I want to know, like,
Speaker 2: are you like, is it fear, is it wonder? Is
Speaker 2: it excitement? Is an anxiety? What are you feeling as
Speaker 2: she is, you know, debuting her black hair and her
Speaker 2: this font. And I want to know. I want to
Speaker 2: know it all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how do you feel about the font?
Speaker 3: About the orange font? Yeah, it's the last thing on
Speaker 3: my mind. I guess when I come to everything. I mean,
Speaker 3: I've been seeing a lot of these things where it's
Speaker 3: like compare Lady Gaga's fonts over the years, which I
Speaker 3: think is symptomatic of something much darker in the culture.
Speaker 3: To go over the font of a of a of
Speaker 3: a business is kind of crazy. But I was really excited.
Speaker 3: I have been excited to see her going dark dark pop.
Speaker 3: I think I was part of the majority or like
Speaker 3: a lot of people who suspected it would be a
Speaker 3: hardcore return to dark pop, and then I think I was.
Speaker 3: I was in for a surprise when the album dropped,
Speaker 3: not entirely unpleasant surprise, but I did. It takes some
Speaker 3: adjusting or something to it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So when we say dark pop, because
Speaker 1: I have to say I'm very much on the outskirts
Speaker 1: of this.
Speaker 3: By the way, that's not a genre that kind of exists.
Speaker 1: But is that we're talking like Alejandro, I.
Speaker 3: Think we're talking well, I think that obviously the two
Speaker 3: the two lead singles that came out were featuring like
Speaker 3: a really more goth heavy sound, a more industrial sound,
Speaker 3: which everybody came to know her for. And I felt
Speaker 3: that the visuals in Disease in particular were exciting. I
Speaker 3: love the choreo with Paris, the new direction. I thought,
Speaker 3: you know, okay, there's there's there's effort, energy, and momentum,
Speaker 3: which I think, as you if you're going to chart
Speaker 3: anything through the discography, those three things are. It's hard
Speaker 3: when those three things are aligned.
Speaker 1: But you know, what are the three things again?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I wasn't going to catch that.
Speaker 3: I just think it's effort, energy and momentum.
Speaker 2: Effort, energy, momentum, energy and momentum. Yeah, that's our sort
Speaker 2: of chrisma, uniqueness, neurve in talent.
Speaker 1: Effort, energy and momentum is huge, Amy, is it really it's.
Speaker 2: Huge effort, energy momentum. Because I do agree, because actually,
Speaker 2: when Disease first dropped, it was like there was just
Speaker 2: the single, no music video, and I was like, is
Speaker 2: there effort, energy and momentum? Like I was like, there's
Speaker 2: a little effort, like you did put the song out,
Speaker 2: but is it energy? Is it momentum?
Speaker 1: You felt Disease was not energy or momentum.
Speaker 2: I did. I felt like it was okay, effort, yeah,
Speaker 2: and then once the video came out, then I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: now we have energy, effort, momentum. Yeah.
Speaker 1: What's interesting about those three is that it's not quite that.
Speaker 1: You know, you have one that's one third, you have
Speaker 1: two that's two thirds. It's not like that at all, actually,
Speaker 1: because if you have effort but not energy and momentum,
Speaker 1: that actually is a self defeating effort, because then an
Speaker 1: effort without energy and momentum just seems desperate, and it's
Speaker 1: almost worse than not having effort at all. It's worse
Speaker 1: than being just static. You know, effort without energy and
Speaker 1: momentum is someone on the street just sort of like
Speaker 1: slapping themselves and being like notice me, notice me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's a key part. That's a key part
Speaker 3: of this anyway. But I'm interested what you said, Sam,
Speaker 3: you weren't sort of excited by disease when it happened,
Speaker 3: or you didn't feel all three were happening.
Speaker 2: I didn't feel all three were happening, So my.
Speaker 3: Really, whereas I did, I was like, all right, I
Speaker 3: did two I did.
Speaker 2: That's awesome. I was jealous of that, as as you know,
Speaker 2: chromatica was nearly a mental illness for me. I think it's.
Speaker 3: Unilaterally that for almost everybody involved. I can't imagine a
Speaker 3: universe where it was, you know, like a tranquil amber
Speaker 3: where you're healthy.
Speaker 1: You're just sort of like, oh, yeah, I'm just having
Speaker 1: a sip of wine listening to Chromatica.
Speaker 2: I listened to it so much. I bought over five
Speaker 2: T shirts your merch.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that addiction was actually crazy, Sam, And
Speaker 1: I'm still finding out about new T shirts that you
Speaker 1: own from the CHROMATICA.
Speaker 2: Currently wearing the Dawn of CHROMATICA shirt.
Speaker 1: And can I ask something all of these you paid for.
Speaker 1: It was not the Goga team. Gaga didn't send them
Speaker 1: to you as an LGBTQ plus influencer. You didn't maybe
Speaker 1: get the meta concert like as a free promotional GID.
Speaker 2: I was lost. I was lost, and I think I
Speaker 2: needed it so bad. Yeah, So I was buying merch
Speaker 2: lenchon right, and I was sort of like, well, this
Speaker 2: is the only time I can buy Chromatic emerges this
Speaker 2: moment in time, the summer of twenty twenty, when they're
Speaker 2: when we are all locked in our homes.
Speaker 1: Of course, except all the various people that completed your order.
Speaker 2: Say that, so, yeah, pretty much. I had to buy
Speaker 2: as many shirts as I could.
Speaker 1: And do you feel and you when disease came out,
Speaker 1: you didn't feel the need to let's say, google Gaga
Speaker 1: disease T shirt.
Speaker 3: Yeah, where's your merch stance. Now that we can leave
Speaker 3: our homes freely and sort of we'll go about in
Speaker 3: the political social climate that is, you know, reaching a
Speaker 3: fever pitch.
Speaker 2: I mean I literally have I did look up you know,
Speaker 2: I said, I can't wait for the Mayhem March to drop.
Speaker 2: Then I went to the website. It turns out it
Speaker 2: already did. And it's just sort of not exciting to me,
Speaker 2: which I think is growth, Like I think is like
Speaker 2: a good sign. It's a sign that I'm healthier at least.
Speaker 2: And I think when disease came out, I was sort
Speaker 2: of like sort of expecting to go into a psychosis
Speaker 2: once again totally, and instead I was like, oh, okay,
Speaker 2: like okay, and that was healthy. And I think, you know,
Speaker 2: we talked about a relationship with her. I think in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty, I was like literally like this is the
Speaker 2: only thing I'm looking forward to, and this is the
Speaker 2: only thing that is fun to me, and now I'm like,
Speaker 2: there's more in my life.
Speaker 1: That's odd.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: I think a big part of this album subtextually actually
Speaker 3: is like a really noble millennial embracing of getting older,
Speaker 3: at least on Goga's part. Yeah, which I really respect.
Speaker 1: Because you want to talk about that, I'll talk When did.
Speaker 3: I say I didn't want to talk about that?
Speaker 1: Remember at the very beginning when I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: a big part of the help of Cycle is the
Speaker 1: passage of time. And I was actually very struck by
Speaker 1: the fact that on SNL she said specifically her age.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we said, do you want to talk about it?
Speaker 1: No, coward, No, You literally were like, I can't talk
Speaker 1: about it.
Speaker 3: I didn't want to be like, I'm forty two and
Speaker 3: I have sinocidist since Chromatica came out, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean, Like, I do want to talk about you know.
Speaker 1: Okay, you want to talk about her embracing aging as
Speaker 1: an elder millennial.
Speaker 3: Well as a pop star specifically, I think that's an
Speaker 3: incredibly it's a beautiful moment. I think in a larger
Speaker 3: recording artist, of course, it's the way of like Rear
Speaker 3: and it's critical.
Speaker 1: To their.
Speaker 3: Artistry, which is a favorite word I think of Stephanie,
Speaker 3: and I think like her. It just seems like in
Speaker 3: the promotional efforts, she's pretty dead set on being grounded
Speaker 3: an adult, or at least a presentation of like stability
Speaker 3: after and that, like, you know, I think she's trying
Speaker 3: to make it pretty clear that like this is about
Speaker 3: her enjoying making Lady Gaga music again, and that she
Speaker 3: is thirty eight. I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Do you think I think, yeah, so, because I'm obviously Gaga.
Speaker 1: Whenever she's promoting anything, there is a certain character she's playing,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, for our Pop it was like Mermaid.
Speaker 1: For Stars Born, it was Angenu in her first big
Speaker 1: starring role. For Joker Too, she was like on the
Speaker 1: verge of murdering.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: And for this one, I find it interesting that she
Speaker 1: is actually choosing to be kind of like sort of normal. Yeah.
Speaker 3: It's like down tempo grunge like Tampa Girl, which I can.
Speaker 1: Do exactly, and she's it's actually crazy how she's you know,
Speaker 1: you think of her as someone who is inherently, and
Speaker 1: I say this in a positive way, inherently weird. Inherently
Speaker 1: theater kid esque. Inherently there's something a little bit off,
Speaker 1: and the way that she has managed to just turn
Speaker 1: that off completely and be just like charming doing her
Speaker 1: a monologue like you know, like kind of talking very
Speaker 1: matter of factly about embracing joy and finding love. There
Speaker 1: is one part of me that's like, so has it
Speaker 1: all been a lie at this point?
Speaker 2: Up until?
Speaker 3: That's critical? I mean, I mean, to wonder about what
Speaker 3: if anything's been a lie or not is to like,
Speaker 3: is to fool yourself in this, you know, the whole
Speaker 3: the lie of Lady Gaga is the essential core of
Speaker 3: Lady Gaga.
Speaker 2: No, I fully agree.
Speaker 3: I don't think it's about whether or not she means
Speaker 3: anything or not. I don't think this it's like some
Speaker 3: kind of trickster album rollout either. I think it's like
Speaker 3: I think she's simply saying like I mean, maybe it's
Speaker 3: a good segue into perfect celebrity. And I don't know
Speaker 3: if you want to go track by track or what,
Speaker 3: but let's go track by.
Speaker 2: Track starting now. Okay, okay, let's start with disease. We've
Speaker 2: discussed it briefly personally. It really grew on me and
Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with it. I also love how Zellia Banks
Speaker 2: is obsessed with it, and that has informed me a lot.
Speaker 3: We'll talk about the passage of time to see literally
Speaker 3: to see to see some beautiful things blooming from from
Speaker 3: twenty thirteen to now is really nice to see. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I was excited by the grit and the grist of it,
Speaker 3: and I really liked I have always liked when she's
Speaker 3: doing something a little more sledgehammery, and so I really
Speaker 3: liked the base in this and the visuals and I
Speaker 3: was like, all right, you know, nothing that would make me,
Speaker 3: you know, buy five or six T shirts or something
Speaker 3: like that. But I was certainly really excited.
Speaker 2: And I give Disease three T shirts.
Speaker 1: I give Disease three T shirts. I'm excited it will
Speaker 1: get more into this later.
Speaker 2: Four T shirts for.
Speaker 1: M I give it three and a half.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: What something I like about this album is that it
Speaker 1: really solidified a lot of the Gaga themes and motifs.
Speaker 1: There's like a real world building element to it, Like
Speaker 1: there are these themes of illness, murder, fame as a prison,
Speaker 1: a lot of the stuff that we've seen before but
Speaker 1: re examined in slightly different ways, and I really do
Speaker 1: appreciate that. I also something about the passage of time
Speaker 1: aging and also her being normal. I actually sort of
Speaker 1: think it's not that the passage of time is like
Speaker 1: this linear thing where it ends with her being normal
Speaker 1: at thirty eight. I actually think for a pop star,
Speaker 1: the ages of approximately thirty eight to forty two are
Speaker 1: when they almost like transcend in this way. It's kind
Speaker 1: of like when Madonna had Ray of Light, and I
Speaker 1: actually think after that you almost have permission to get
Speaker 1: even weirder if you want. But it's like this is
Speaker 1: almost the peak of something where you have to make
Speaker 1: your grand statement of like, Okay, we have now seen
Speaker 1: what I've done the last twenty years. This is who
Speaker 1: I am as an artist. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, that's always the hope I have with with artists
Speaker 3: at the peak of their popularity, while they're approaching that
Speaker 3: age range which I think you're you know, by force
Speaker 3: or by decision, you have to kind of release the
Speaker 3: trappings of ngenew you know, an ingenue persona or really
Speaker 3: just any youth of the pop star and hopefully push
Speaker 3: your vision as far as it can go. I'm always
Speaker 3: wanting like huge stars to go as experimental as possible,
Speaker 3: and there are examples of that, but I find there's
Speaker 3: a lot less I don't know, risk taking nowadays, but yeah,
Speaker 3: I agree. I think it's a moment where you can
Speaker 3: you can reach like an apotheosis of of your talents
Speaker 3: and charms and also just really do things out of
Speaker 3: left field, like a Ray of Light or something something
Speaker 3: like this, or some of Prince's albums from that time
Speaker 3: those years.
Speaker 1: And I do think this isn't quite a ray of
Speaker 1: This isn't quite out of left field. I will say
Speaker 1: as well as I am enjoying it. It's a return.
Speaker 2: It's a return with a twist.
Speaker 1: It's a return with a twist, but it isn't it
Speaker 1: isn't a left swing in the way that art pop
Speaker 1: was after Born this way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think we should move on to Abrica. Okay,
Speaker 2: the second track, the second single even well, I guess third.
Speaker 2: If you can't die with a smile but to die
Speaker 2: for I feel like I give this five T shirts.
Speaker 2: When this came out, I said, oh my god, like
Speaker 2: I'm going to be so taken care of for the
Speaker 2: next few months, right, And I said, I want to
Speaker 2: hear this out and about I said, you know, talk
Speaker 2: about return to form, but with a twist. It felt
Speaker 2: like a combo sort of all of the eras in
Speaker 2: one song. And I was so and continue to be
Speaker 2: so into it. It's so fun and I love the choreo.
Speaker 2: That's my thoughts. Five T shirts.
Speaker 1: That's awesome. You hate it, I don't hate it.
Speaker 3: I don't hate it. I think I had this one
Speaker 3: moment because she what was it, like the super Bowl
Speaker 3: or the Grammys or something. She like dropped the video
Speaker 3: as a commercial, but as.
Speaker 1: An American Express commercial.
Speaker 3: It was like a MasterCard commercial, mister card commercial.
Speaker 1: Excuse me, sorry, sorry to the master Card team. It
Speaker 1: was a master Card commercial.
Speaker 3: If you really want to, you know, throw me back
Speaker 3: to my youth. It's like, let me get excited about
Speaker 3: a MasterCard commercial.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, lady got got dropping a video iceless. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, I think the twenty tens idea that I said
Speaker 3: seven years ago holds up here, which is like, you know,
Speaker 3: her music is sort of dovetails with a liberal ideology
Speaker 3: that we you know, will unspool for it seems the
Speaker 3: rest of our lives.
Speaker 1: You are completely there. And I actually think that, like
Speaker 1: the fact that it's all these things that she's doing
Speaker 1: are hearkening back to the kind of majesty of the
Speaker 1: bad Romance era but are also sponsored by MasterCard. Is
Speaker 1: part of the wistfulness of it.
Speaker 3: Like I know, and well, I guess my my like
Speaker 3: my joke and also my feeling, which is just like
Speaker 3: let her cook, so to speak. I don't know, it's
Speaker 3: sort of like, uh, this is sort of what she does.
Speaker 3: And I I was like, wow, it's in. I like
Speaker 3: the song the sort of like spark of recognition where
Speaker 3: you're like, oh my god. I think I like the song,
Speaker 3: like to to be like brought out of some kind
Speaker 3: of slumber whenever, like Gaga has like it like an
Speaker 3: inkling of something. It's a it's a it's a bond
Speaker 3: between listener and star that's like, I think, ultimately kind
Speaker 3: of unhealthy. But I'm here, there and everywhere.
Speaker 2: But I'm really trying to like parse out your headspace
Speaker 2: right now. I know me too.
Speaker 1: It's actually really fascinating. It's like listening to a public intellectual.
Speaker 3: It shouldn't ben't be like that, I guess, is what
Speaker 3: I'm trying to say. Here's something I will say about
Speaker 3: about abracadabra where And I don't want to say this
Speaker 3: phrase anymore than need be, But I did want to
Speaker 3: ask your guys opinion about this, this sentiment of rep
Speaker 3: it we need say once now let me let me finish. Okay, yes,
Speaker 3: of course, let me finish. We're obviously that's a phrase
Speaker 3: that's going around.
Speaker 2: It's the new epidemic. It's the new COVID.
Speaker 3: Nineteen, certainly. And I think you can always argue that
Speaker 3: that an artist pulls references and re originates things, recontextualizes
Speaker 3: things into a new form, or like things of this nature.
Speaker 3: But I find it a little distressing that the oh
Speaker 3: currant kind of phrase at the moment is literally pointing
Speaker 3: to a culture of leftovers. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Yes, I do know what you mean. I think we
Speaker 2: are I think the nachosification of pop music has gone
Speaker 2: really far. I know everyone's always pulling, I know everyone's
Speaker 2: always referencing, but I am sort of like, like this album,
Speaker 2: Like so for Disease, for example, I was sort of like,
Speaker 2: I think what originally didn't spark with me is I
Speaker 2: was like, this sounds like the Kim Petress Halloween album,
Speaker 2: Like it sounds the production sounds identical to the Kim
Speaker 2: Petress Halloween album. So this doesn't excite me because I'm like,
Speaker 2: this happened like five years ago. This wasn't this isn't
Speaker 2: like old news, and it's like, wow, she brought back
Speaker 2: this sound. It's like this is so recent. But I
Speaker 2: do think the more I've listened to this album in general,
Speaker 2: it is I would say it's nachos the album. It
Speaker 2: is like, fully every song reminds me of another song
Speaker 2: and in ways that at first I was annoyed by
Speaker 2: it and now I'm liking.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I actually don't think like I'm faulting her
Speaker 3: for any of that. I just think it's interesting in
Speaker 3: the way we talk about popular music now, which is
Speaker 3: just like if somebody is to successfully kind of you
Speaker 3: just have to sort of successfully reference something and not
Speaker 3: recontextualize it too much for it to be enjoyable.
Speaker 1: And this goes back to my big idea, Right, it's
Speaker 1: not content creators, it's context creators at all. All we're
Speaker 1: doing is recycling the same things but giving them slightly
Speaker 1: different context.
Speaker 2: Well. For example, also Useexua, which I loved, I stand,
Speaker 2: but there are songs on there where it's literally Ray
Speaker 2: of Light. Like it sounds like identical to songs on
Speaker 2: Ray of Light, which you know is having its flowers
Speaker 2: once again. But it is just like a big ray of.
Speaker 3: Lights, like, uh, you know what can be said, it's
Speaker 3: a it's a pinnacle album in music in music history,
Speaker 3: and those sounds are are still futuristic, I think, is
Speaker 3: what you're saying. Like they're still leading edge, they're still
Speaker 3: cutting edge, and I think that's an album where the
Speaker 3: core of it is about huge experimentation and huge experimentation
Speaker 3: into the into the like iconography of Madonna herself. It's
Speaker 3: like a huge it's like an integration of sorts for her,
Speaker 3: you know, NU mean where she's introspective, she's spiritual, she's futuristic.
Speaker 1: Well also in terms of the integration of it, it
Speaker 1: is literally her artificial celebrity self and her quote unquote
Speaker 1: real authentic self integrating that is a big part of
Speaker 1: the of the kind of theme of Ray of Light.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm. So so talk to me, So talk to me.
Speaker 1: I'm struggling with I I'm struggling with the Nacho's conversation
Speaker 1: because here's one take, here's one way into it. I
Speaker 1: want to just reject wholesale the language of TikTok. I
Speaker 1: don't just because three people said this phrase and then
Speaker 1: people saw it and thought it was, you know, pleasing
Speaker 1: to the ear in some way, thought it was like
Speaker 1: an interesting lens through which to view pop cultures. Then
Speaker 1: they repeated it, and the other ones repeated it. It
Speaker 1: gives you this idea that somehow that is how everyone
Speaker 1: is talking currently, And actually I am not talking like that,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Yeah, Well, I'm like, I'm not.
Speaker 1: You don't have to accept the terms set by the
Speaker 1: dumbest people on the planet.
Speaker 3: Well, when you're talking about popular music, though, I kind
Speaker 3: of feel like you have to hear it out.
Speaker 1: Almost completely, right.
Speaker 3: I don't think you can avoid you can't.
Speaker 2: You're right.
Speaker 3: It's like sort of saying like, I mean, would James
Speaker 3: Joyce refuse the language of his day? I just don't
Speaker 3: think that's real?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I guess what I'm I'm still holding onto
Speaker 1: this nostalgic feeling that Internet language, language native to the
Speaker 1: Internet is less substantial and less real than language that
Speaker 1: is created in real time and space, and that is
Speaker 1: just the It's it's over, it's over.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would I hate to say it, but I
Speaker 3: think language is going the way of the Dodo.
Speaker 1: I don't want, I mean phrase my.
Speaker 3: Whole deal on on words. And I think it might
Speaker 3: be time to Nacho reheat.
Speaker 1: Reheat, Hello, reheat.
Speaker 2: Do we want to move to.
Speaker 1: Track three, Garden of Eden?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll take to take you to the Garden of Eden.
Speaker 3: Well, this feels like a you know, a return to
Speaker 3: a variety of Gaga's past. It really, I do think
Speaker 3: overall Mayhem is is is a Brunette album, not just
Speaker 3: because she's met in this album cycle, but it's it's
Speaker 3: the two thousand and seven sort of situation and it's
Speaker 3: like this is you know, one of the story demos
Speaker 3: or something. And it took me, of course, it took
Speaker 3: me by surprise. On first listen, I was, I know,
Speaker 3: she said that she was going to sort of this
Speaker 3: would be full of twists and turns, but I really
Speaker 3: was like, whoa, it is kind of like an art
Speaker 3: pop track. It's like a two thousand and seven track.
Speaker 3: It's fun.
Speaker 2: I was taken aback in a positive but then in
Speaker 2: a positive way, like I was like it was like
Speaker 2: seeing someone wear like a von Dutch hat, Like when
Speaker 2: that came back and I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I didn't know where you could do that.
Speaker 3: I do think there's something like kind of really truthful
Speaker 3: about I mean, she's really going back to two thousand
Speaker 3: and seven in a way if you can understand in
Speaker 3: this moment, because she was there and so and so.
Speaker 3: I think the dynamism that she brings to like her
Speaker 3: the songs, it's like, it's got true two thousand and
Speaker 3: six vibes in a way that's shocking. It's not just
Speaker 3: sort of cherry pick.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true because actually so many of the people
Speaker 1: referencing that era are in fact twenty three and named
Speaker 1: Tate McCrae or something. Yeah, and so it is very
Speaker 1: different when she does it, as it almost makes you, well,
Speaker 1: I don't know what I was ioud to say, is
Speaker 1: that it almost makes you wish that is what Madonna
Speaker 1: was doing. Like how fun would it be if Madonna
Speaker 1: was referencing the eighties or nineties or like the material
Speaker 1: Girl era in a fun way? But on the other hand,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know, I don't someone to look
Speaker 1: back like, yeah.
Speaker 3: I think it's a weird. It's a different delineation. I mean,
Speaker 3: I'm thinking about like MJ and Prince and Madonna and
Speaker 3: now not just Gaga, but like that this is I
Speaker 3: guess that's what I mean. And so I don't want
Speaker 3: to say nachos again. But when I brought up that point,
Speaker 3: the whole point being that like this is a demand
Speaker 3: now of of our current pop stars that I think
Speaker 3: it's like transcends like reinvention, which was like kind of
Speaker 3: the eighties and nineties demand. Oh interesting, you had to
Speaker 3: reinvent and change, and now it's like you have to
Speaker 3: reinvent and change and successfully reference this thing that we
Speaker 3: all remember that we loved and to like infuse that
Speaker 3: nostalgia into your current project successfully, whether or not. It's
Speaker 3: sort of like presented in a new way. Is a
Speaker 3: demand of the moment that I think is like I
Speaker 3: don't know if I've worked out how I feel about it.
Speaker 1: But it's Yeah. It used to be that the demand
Speaker 1: was originality, and you were judged based on how innovative
Speaker 1: you were being, and now the demand is the reheating. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right, and you are judged by how successfully it
Speaker 1: has maintained its crunch, its flavors and potentially if you're
Speaker 1: adding maybe some fresh parsley or something or solantro on top,
Speaker 1: you know what new twist you are bringing to it exactly.
Speaker 2: This is like, unfortunately, why nachos is an effective flightwork.
Speaker 2: I can't no, it is an effective framework. It like
Speaker 2: gives you language to talk about, like like how things
Speaker 2: are repackaged, because like some stuff it is it is bad.
Speaker 2: Sometimes you're like, I reheated these and they're soggy and horrible.
Speaker 2: Sometimes you reheat it and you're like, oh, this is
Speaker 2: actually to die for. I'm loving these reheated nachos. There
Speaker 2: is an art to reheating.
Speaker 1: Can I say something about reheating? By the way, and
Speaker 1: Lady Gaga, you know a lot of people forget this.
Speaker 1: When she first came out. One of the big accusations
Speaker 1: which was that she was reheating Prince Bowie Madonna. That
Speaker 1: was the accusation from the skeptics was that she was
Speaker 1: pastiche It was that there wasn't the new thing that
Speaker 1: you got from like a Janet Jackson, the new thing,
Speaker 1: the Quinte essentially, even even Brittany or something like the
Speaker 1: Quinte essentially someone thing was not Gaga. She literally had
Speaker 1: a the like what's it called on her face, like Bowie,
Speaker 1: the lightning, the lightning, but like she literally has the
Speaker 1: lightning bolt referencing Bowie. I mean imagine if I don't
Speaker 1: know when Brittany had debuted, she had been wearing a
Speaker 1: cone bra.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Right, So the point being, it's actually very interesting. Gaga
Speaker 1: reheating her own past is almost the fuck you to
Speaker 1: the accusations that she was reheating that of others, because
Speaker 1: now she's saying, there is enough that I have contributed
Speaker 1: here that I can reheat it over and over and
Speaker 1: over again and the stench of the initial reheating is gone.
Speaker 2: But you say that, but that's only this song. Then
Speaker 2: as we move forward, it's so many reheated nachos. Okay, okay,
Speaker 2: let's move on. Let's move by the way. I love
Speaker 2: Garden of Eden and I want that on the record.
Speaker 2: I love and I want that on the record.
Speaker 1: Okay, fixed celebrity. Now I want to know what everyone thinks.
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, the Gaga not reference being a
Speaker 2: plastic doll challenge, but.
Speaker 3: Again, that's another event that damn If you want that
Speaker 3: kind of challenge, I question your fandom.
Speaker 1: Yeah no, it's ill question what you believe about.
Speaker 3: The woman we're talking about.
Speaker 1: I think this is great art plastic.
Speaker 2: Yes, I love the song. But when I was close
Speaker 2: listening all my first listen, I heard like that first
Speaker 2: verse that's about being a plastic doll, and I was like,
Speaker 2: we cannot literally say the phrase plastic doll again, but
Speaker 2: nevertheless she persisted, and then when it gets to the chorus,
Speaker 2: I am standing and I love this song.
Speaker 1: The first time I listened to it, I thought this
Speaker 1: is like a quote unquote bad Gaga song, but bad
Speaker 1: in a fun Gaga way. But the more I listen
Speaker 1: to it, the more I actually think it's a good song.
Speaker 2: No, this is a great one.
Speaker 1: Actually it actually isn't. It's not plastic doll, which I
Speaker 1: think is a bit of a kind of like fun
Speaker 1: Gaga flop and like, of course I like it, but
Speaker 1: it's because I'm a fan. You think you don't think
Speaker 1: I think plastic doll is like it's like smore, I
Speaker 1: don't think plastic I don't. I don't think plastic dolls
Speaker 1: the song you're going to show someone to be like, look,
Speaker 1: this is a good Gaga sog.
Speaker 3: I think, like I said, it's it's really hard, I mean,
Speaker 3: to discuss whether a song is good or bad, and
Speaker 3: in this conversation, I feel like it's besides the point that.
Speaker 1: Being said, Yeah, that being said, I.
Speaker 3: Love how her voice sounds in this. I wish sort
Speaker 3: of the last ten seconds of the song we're in
Speaker 3: more of the song itself, you know, there was I
Speaker 3: feel like the grungy thing was like turned up a
Speaker 3: little bit more at the end. But yeah, I like,
Speaker 3: I also want the This is my personal thing that
Speaker 3: I like of all pop stars, and I think it's
Speaker 3: really hard and maybe impossible to do, but I would
Speaker 3: love if more pop stars talked about how much they
Speaker 3: hate their hands.
Speaker 2: Her friends.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, because I think I don't think it's
Speaker 3: like a hateful or vitriolic thing to talk about this
Speaker 3: very unnatural, like symbiotic thing, which I think is like
Speaker 3: a sort of I think it's a beautiful evolution of
Speaker 3: human human connection, but I think it's like flawed and crazy,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Like you become such an
Speaker 3: intimate figure in somebody's life and you're a stranger, and
Speaker 3: to talk about how upsetting and demanding and strange it
Speaker 3: is and how much you want to fulfill on that promise,
Speaker 3: and how you fail at it or how you succeed
Speaker 3: is like really really interesting to me, So I would
Speaker 3: love and she is sort.
Speaker 1: Of reheating Jesus as nachos.
Speaker 3: George, promise me we'll never say that phrase again for
Speaker 3: the rest of this.
Speaker 2: That.
Speaker 3: Oh well, I do like what you said. If you
Speaker 3: had said that sort of normally, I think I would
Speaker 3: have had a different Yeah, but I do.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean the Christ's narrative is inherent in the in
Speaker 3: the American pop star.
Speaker 2: I mean that feeling when the Christ's narrative is inherent.
Speaker 1: I yeah, yeah. I also like what I was thinking
Speaker 1: about perfect a celebrity is it. It's almost like she's
Speaker 1: actually tried to give this message in for God got
Speaker 1: standards more subtle ways. It's like you she had paparazzi,
Speaker 1: she had plastic doll, and with this one she's like, Okay, guys,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say this one last time. I feel like
Speaker 1: a plastic doll and you're all ruining my life. Capeche
Speaker 1: like that is it's sort of like it's.
Speaker 3: Like she has the last time.
Speaker 2: I don't time last time, but there.
Speaker 1: Is something about it, even the title being so literal, like,
Speaker 1: it's so it's not even trying to be like metaphorical
Speaker 1: at least plastic doll. She's she's doing a metaphor.
Speaker 2: She's just I think I really appreciated that because I
Speaker 2: was expecting when I saw the title, I was like, Oh,
Speaker 2: it's gonna be like tongue in cheek and it's gonna
Speaker 2: be like a glossy pop song about how she's a
Speaker 2: perfect celebrity and it's gonna be like commenting. And then
Speaker 2: it was like, oh no, she's just like complaining in
Speaker 2: a positive way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I like it.
Speaker 2: I like it. I'm in next track, Vanish into You.
Speaker 2: This is this I enjoyed.
Speaker 1: I will say this is look Amy, here we go,
Speaker 1: Here we go.
Speaker 2: Look. This is where the nachos thing gets complex. This,
Speaker 2: I would argue, is Gaga reheating her nachos, but she
Speaker 2: added treaded chicken that she found at the store.
Speaker 3: I think I feel punished. I feel punished, and I
Speaker 3: feel wounded, and I feel like a plastic doll pretty much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this song is literally the chorus sounds like bad Romance,
Speaker 2: like she just does Bad Romance again, but slowed down
Speaker 2: with like a different like.
Speaker 3: Last because she does a couple I I eyes, you're
Speaker 3: gonna you're gonna falter on that.
Speaker 2: I'm not faulting her. I'm saying I'm crediting her and
Speaker 2: saying she is doing that. Did Jesus you don't feel
Speaker 2: this way?
Speaker 1: Is it the ultimate? Is it the ultimate? Sorry to
Speaker 1: use this term flex to reference yourself?
Speaker 3: I have to take time with that.
Speaker 1: Is it the ultimate flex?
Speaker 3: To reference yourself?
Speaker 1: Rather than referencing You're saying, like, look at me, I'm
Speaker 1: referencing the classics? What are the classics? My old tracks?
Speaker 2: I think the ultimate flex is to pretend you have
Speaker 2: a limp with a cane and then fall and do
Speaker 2: a flip and then stand up and walk normal.
Speaker 1: But ultimate physical like hymn artistic, artistic physical.
Speaker 2: I think, really wonga eight with that. But I think
Speaker 2: this is a close second. I think referencing yourself is
Speaker 2: a close second. I do.
Speaker 1: Do we think originality on its own is over completely?
Speaker 1: I mean, did we just leave that behind in the
Speaker 1: twentieth century? Is it a modernist or has existed?
Speaker 2: This is my mi Okay, here's what I was thinking. Okay,
Speaker 2: it still exists in the sort indie sphere, Like I
Speaker 2: was thinking about originality and whether or not it exists.
Speaker 2: And then I was like, okay, what about like Okay Lou,
Speaker 2: Like I was like, that's that's original right or am
Speaker 2: I just un informed? Sam?
Speaker 1: Okay Lou is the most reference heavy. Well, but this
Speaker 1: is like early aughts like europop I've ever heard. It's
Speaker 1: literally like it's like a period piece. It's like kirea
Speaker 1: Nightly in Bend. It like Beckham dancing with a going
Speaker 1: out top.
Speaker 2: But it's so like subdued. It feels fresh, it feels
Speaker 2: new to me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you have to argue what the the
Speaker 3: quality of freshness means, because I think you can always
Speaker 3: argue endlessly that an artist's job is to reference or
Speaker 3: not reference.
Speaker 2: We can.
Speaker 1: Keep going, keep going.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a reference or not reference to.
Speaker 2: God.
Speaker 3: I wish I remember the rest of that video, but yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm sort of meditextually doing it even right now. I
Speaker 3: think an artist job is always to learn about things
Speaker 3: that happened before them, decide what it means to their work,
Speaker 3: and to either integrate it, change it or not in
Speaker 3: their in their in their work, and so you know,
Speaker 3: it's I don't think you can avoid avoid being referential,
Speaker 3: but you can ask yourself how much uh, your references
Speaker 3: are buried or sewn into the things that you're doing.
Speaker 3: And how how you do that, I think is how
Speaker 3: you be an artist in one sense, you know, how
Speaker 3: you fold things into into your own into your own thing.
Speaker 2: Did you guys listen to the new Pandaba album?
Speaker 3: You're completely shutting me down. Not yet, but I have
Speaker 3: heard the single and I really liked it.
Speaker 2: Well, it's really good. I really like it. But it's
Speaker 2: also nachos. It's fully just like it's like a very
Speaker 2: straightforward like I'm gonna make music from the sixties again,
Speaker 2: and in a way that I'm like, well, no one's
Speaker 2: doing that right now, I guess, so that's cool. I
Speaker 2: really enjoy it. But it's like, is this am I allowed?
Speaker 2: Is this like lazy that I even like this? Like yeah,
Speaker 2: so I'm torn on this is what I mean. I'm
Speaker 2: thinking a lot about nachos.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know that famous essay we read Sam
Speaker 1: that said the last unique thing was Amy Winehouse.
Speaker 3: You guys read that.
Speaker 2: The syllabus.
Speaker 1: It was on the syllabus Amy. We forgot to send
Speaker 1: it over. I actually I almost have a different Okay,
Speaker 1: here's my all right, get ready for this theory. I
Speaker 1: think there was a break in culture when Taylor Swift
Speaker 1: and I Knew you were Trouble included a drop that
Speaker 1: that was like, oh oh, trouble, trouble dubstep from the
Speaker 1: step Taylor Swift. Dubstep I think actually was the that
Speaker 1: was the It was the big bang that produced the
Speaker 1: microwave that was then used to reheat all nachos.
Speaker 3: From that point, well, maybe we're touching on something that
Speaker 3: is terrifying to realize, which is like dubstep was a truly.
Speaker 1: So literally amy That is exactly what I was leading
Speaker 1: to because I'm trying to think, you know, think of
Speaker 1: the twentieth century, how much innovation hip hop? Uh, just
Speaker 1: like all the various chapters of rock and roll innovations
Speaker 1: and jazz whatever, What was the in our young adulthood
Speaker 1: and adolescence.
Speaker 2: What was the last new thing?
Speaker 1: It was dubstep.
Speaker 2: It was dumbstep and.
Speaker 1: It was literally, like I swear to god, it was
Speaker 1: also like l M f AO.
Speaker 2: Is pretty singular, well, I would argue is in tandem
Speaker 2: with early goga. It was just like yeah, the loudest, danciest,
Speaker 2: like no moment of quiet.
Speaker 1: At all, just like yeah, and this is something that
Speaker 1: is forgotten I think by the by potentially some younger
Speaker 1: fans of Gaga is that the initial glam was Indie glam.
Speaker 1: Gaga was Santa Goold, but then took it a step further.
Speaker 3: I can't follow you there.
Speaker 1: It was you mean like the visual sequence, it's sequence,
Speaker 1: but it's dirty. Mm hm, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It's a reaction.
Speaker 2: It was American apparel.
Speaker 1: It was American apparel.
Speaker 3: Yes, it was a reaction to the previous couple of
Speaker 3: years of like intense folkdom.
Speaker 1: Yes, you know, it was like a folk.
Speaker 3: Folk heavy Bush years led way to kind of glitterphonic
Speaker 3: Obama years.
Speaker 1: Yes, and then but yeah, but then the glitter was
Speaker 1: not it's not worth dwell on it. No, I think
Speaker 1: we have to. I think there was a chance to
Speaker 1: embrace the glitter. But but people were R two. I
Speaker 1: don't think Obama was glitter. I think Obama on the.
Speaker 3: I didn't say that Obama was glitter.
Speaker 1: I said I don't think Obama. You know, there's on
Speaker 1: the one side of things, you have a just a
Speaker 1: single leather boot, and on the other side, you have
Speaker 1: a budget of glitter, and I think Obama went for
Speaker 1: the boot more than the glitter. Well, so that we
Speaker 1: get here, the next track is Killer Killer, so Killer.
Speaker 2: Is obviously the next single. Yeah, because she performed on SNL.
Speaker 2: I personally, you know, here's what I'm gonna say. I
Speaker 2: think every time I talk about a song, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: start by saying I personally really like it. So you know,
Speaker 2: I think fans may think I'm not critical enough, and
Speaker 2: that's okay. But this song is sort of Prince Bowie
Speaker 2: and but with classic little Gaga isms, and I think
Speaker 2: it At first I was like, jaw on the floor,
Speaker 2: this is so corny, and then it's really won me over.
Speaker 2: I'm addicted now. I think the breakdown is so genius.
Speaker 2: I do wish it started there and stayed there, But
Speaker 2: I like outro. I wish the outro was like way
Speaker 2: more prominent and it would like have breaks of the
Speaker 2: like little funky part and then I would go back
Speaker 2: to being kookie.
Speaker 3: I respect that. I yeah, I mean, well, the Fame
Speaker 3: reference is so hardcore in it that it really took
Speaker 3: me by surprise, I gotta say. But I like the
Speaker 3: S and L performance. I thought it was cool and
Speaker 3: like I liked the CCTV kind of moment of it,
Speaker 3: and yeah, I give it a couple of T shirts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I give it a couple of T shirts. Once again,
Speaker 1: she's going back to themes of murder and death and killing,
Speaker 1: and yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Think kill a h is quite funny. I think I
Speaker 2: love so who is that? So? Who is that? I mean,
Speaker 2: I just love the name. I love the saying featuring.
Speaker 1: Gas and he's French.
Speaker 2: He's a French DJ producer. So pretty much do you
Speaker 2: know who Gin is? Amy?
Speaker 1: Amy?
Speaker 3: I know they're a legendary producer, French producer.
Speaker 1: Are they legendary?
Speaker 3: That's what I hear.
Speaker 2: Okay, many many of my sources are saying that Gasoppelstein
Speaker 2: is quite legendary mm hmm in the French DJing and
Speaker 2: producing space. Okay, yeah, So Amy, I feel almost that
Speaker 2: you're beating around the bush. Do you not enjoy the song?
Speaker 1: And also, Amy, can I ask something like, yeah, what,
Speaker 1: I don't know? There is something deeper about this album?
Speaker 1: And I actually there is something. Here's what it seems,
Speaker 1: here's what all right, Here's how I feel about Gaga
Speaker 1: at this stage. All right, I almost feel like that
Speaker 1: moment when things are so dire that you're not allowed
Speaker 1: to criticize the Democrats.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I think that it is.
Speaker 1: There is something culturally speaking, I have to we our
Speaker 1: community has to hold on to Gaga so much right
Speaker 1: now that it feels unethical even if I do have
Speaker 1: an issue with one of these songs Drift, and if
Speaker 1: I potentially have an opinion regarding the reheating of Nachos,
Speaker 1: that this is not the time to be critical in
Speaker 1: the same way that when it is time to be
Speaker 1: united and resistant coalition build, I shouldn't be making fun
Speaker 1: of Nancy Pelosi.
Speaker 2: Wow, I think that's scaring me.
Speaker 1: What do you think of that?
Speaker 3: I think, I, well, I think that's probably true. I
Speaker 3: think I'm going back and forth with this thing where
Speaker 3: it's like we're talking about getting older and talking about
Speaker 3: this album, and I think I keep going back and
Speaker 3: forth about what it means for a pop album to
Speaker 3: be resonant to me or not at this stage in life,
Speaker 3: and I don't think that the album's note this is
Speaker 3: why I don't open up.
Speaker 2: Come on, this is why I don't up.
Speaker 1: We were getting somewhere, getting I'm getting amy to say
Speaker 1: that to address the elephant in the room and you're
Speaker 1: gonna go and do that life am ignoring Amy?
Speaker 3: What's after Killa Zombie Boy and see Zombie Boy?
Speaker 1: I love I love Zombie Boy.
Speaker 2: I love Zombie Boy. I love.
Speaker 3: So it reminds me of nights I've had at the Standard.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I mean, you know, Lady Gaga grew up
Speaker 2: in the Standard, like pretty much.
Speaker 3: That was her whole life from the Standard Hotel.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, going to the Standard, going to the
Speaker 2: bar at the Standard.
Speaker 1: I do like a twenty tens version of the Chelsea
Speaker 1: Hotel where instead of you know, Patty Smith, it's like
Speaker 1: it's literally like all the people that were at Pitchfork Fest,
Speaker 1: but they're like being put up at the Standard. Well,
Speaker 1: they're all like honestly doing fine financially. They're just sort
Speaker 1: of like partying at the bar.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean if you weren't. What's the bar called
Speaker 2: at the Standard.
Speaker 1: Top of the the boom Boom Rooms, the Boo.
Speaker 2: Boom Boom Room. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it made me think of the Boom Boom Room.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm I think some the funny thing about like
Speaker 2: kill a Zombie Boy disease, Like, I think it is funny.
Speaker 2: Part of me is like did you intend for this
Speaker 2: to be a Halloween album? And just like, uh, well
Speaker 2: that is the dark pop it all.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and also literal yeah, and well she's literal pretty literal.
Speaker 3: I mean for her fantasy in front of me, like
Speaker 3: you know you.
Speaker 1: Even die with a smile, that is also Halloween. Even
Speaker 1: it's much more of a you know, uber song, target song,
Speaker 1: Uh brand it like abric is magic.
Speaker 2: Album.
Speaker 1: I'm holy realizing it's a Halloween album.
Speaker 3: Well, I do think that the part of the the
Speaker 3: imagery around the album is talking about this thing. I
Speaker 3: think we're maybe struggling to articulate it, and maybe we're not,
Speaker 3: but it's just sort of like this the resuscitation of Gaga,
Speaker 3: it's itself herself, like the the the Gaga of her
Speaker 3: life is like this sort of like endless combative resuscitation,
Speaker 3: this like coming back from the dead and all this
Speaker 3: kind of stuff. It's it's this seems to be like
Speaker 3: her struggle, which I always find that stuff kind of
Speaker 3: very interesting want pop stars to write all about it.
Speaker 3: So I do think, like, obviously the imagery is pretty
Speaker 3: literal in the songs, but I do think she's trying
Speaker 3: to pepper that in there to be like what happens
Speaker 3: in this like rebirth is actually like constant death also,
Speaker 3: and it's really exhausting on me, who's like actually an
Speaker 3: alive woman in a relationship and wanting to be wanting
Speaker 3: to be a woman.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Like and wanting to be like a alive you are, so.
Speaker 1: Rebirth is constant death is so true. It's not like
Speaker 1: you are reborn and you're stronger than ever. You're still
Speaker 1: carrying the weight of having just died.
Speaker 3: Well or yeah, you're meant to sort of ask what
Speaker 3: you take.
Speaker 1: With you exactly. And also you know, a rebirth can
Speaker 1: doesn't can be a zombiefide rebirth, I mean a zombie
Speaker 1: is in a sense undead, is in a sense alive.
Speaker 1: And you know, to go from colors in chromatica to
Speaker 1: black and white in Mayhem, there's a symbolism there as well.
Speaker 2: And what do you think that is that we've lost
Speaker 2: the color, that we've lost the color, folks, we've lost
Speaker 2: the color.
Speaker 3: Well, I wonder if there's kind of like an inverse.
Speaker 3: It makes me think of you know, I think this
Speaker 3: album we're talking about how referential it is. It's very intentional.
Speaker 3: I think that it's this referential all these different iterations,
Speaker 3: and I think about the Fame Monster what that meant,
Speaker 3: the departure that it had through that darker imagery and
Speaker 3: the monster stuff, and there was a lot of like animation,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean in those songwriting. She was
Speaker 3: animating different desires, different ambitions through like this kind of
Speaker 3: horror imagery. And I almost feel like now it's like
Speaker 3: a little bit in verse where like the music itself
Speaker 3: is full of a lot of life actually, but it
Speaker 3: has the sort of kitchy, more like tongue in cheek
Speaker 3: like horror language. It's not as dark as the Fame Monster,
Speaker 3: but it's maybe has more life.
Speaker 1: And also, both The Fame Monster and Mayhem are Halloween
Speaker 1: albums because the Fame Monster also played with themes of monsters, zombies,
Speaker 1: et cetera. And by the way, the Fame was color
Speaker 1: and the Fame Monster was black and white, just like
Speaker 1: Chrematica was color and Mayhem is black and white.
Speaker 3: Wow, And you can't argue with that. But what do
Speaker 3: you think Born this Way is? Because there's color and
Speaker 3: black and white.
Speaker 1: I think Born this Way is, like, isn't even part
Speaker 1: of this conversation really, because to me, Born this Way
Speaker 1: is like Gaga at her most commercial. I'm not saying
Speaker 1: that in a negative way, like there are great songs
Speaker 1: and Born this Way.
Speaker 3: But Sam just heard alarm bells Gaga.
Speaker 1: Gaga at that point was the number one pop star
Speaker 1: and she released Born this Way. It's a different thing, but.
Speaker 2: She also it's a bit of a like. I think
Speaker 2: this actually does relate to Born this Way because it's
Speaker 2: so like, look how many genres I can do. I
Speaker 2: think Born this Way was very like, this is gonna
Speaker 2: be a Bruce Springsteen song, this is German dance, this
Speaker 2: is country, and I think Mayhem is like that a lot.
Speaker 1: That's actually a very good point. So in a sense,
Speaker 1: in a sense that what's being reheated is the eclecticism.
Speaker 1: It's not like each song is reheating different.
Speaker 3: Different I just feel like I created a monster.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying the word so referential, but I'm gonna
Speaker 1: say the word.
Speaker 2: I think. I think honestly, that's what feels most refreshing
Speaker 2: about the album as a whole is the eclecticness, because
Speaker 2: now everything is so market tested and so like, this
Speaker 2: album is about blank. This album is like my nineties
Speaker 2: house blank. This album is for this, and this is
Speaker 2: like I'm I'm everything at once, and it's like actually
Speaker 2: very confusing, and I'm like, wow, this actually makes it
Speaker 2: feel refreshing.
Speaker 3: That is the only constant.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that is what pop like was in the
Speaker 1: I don't know nineties and early odd It's like pop
Speaker 1: was in fact that the criticism of it was that
Speaker 1: it lacked cohesion and it lacked a coherent vision, and
Speaker 1: it was just like an album for a pop star
Speaker 1: was just a series of singles or a series of
Speaker 1: songs that could be played without any context. That was
Speaker 1: a criticism of it. And to make an album like
Speaker 1: Ray of Light or even something even more cohesive in
Speaker 1: the real life, like something that's like a concept album
Speaker 1: was the exception. It's like something that someone would do
Speaker 1: when they wanted to like really make a statement, and
Speaker 1: then at some point everything became a concept album. Like
Speaker 1: at some point it was like each album was supposed
Speaker 1: to be like a built in narrative.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's part of the game. I think
Speaker 3: I mean you, I think you're you're sort of stuck
Speaker 3: as a pop star either to be like like intentionally
Speaker 3: anti narrative or you have to build the world, you know,
Speaker 3: And I do like what you said that. I do
Speaker 3: think of a constant part of of Goga's work is
Speaker 3: that she's always doing something different than anyone anticipates, which
Speaker 3: I think is like how I've met this album where
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, it's completely different than what I thought
Speaker 3: it was going to be. And I I always I
Speaker 3: always find like love and affection for every project. It's
Speaker 3: just sort of a manner of how how it washes.
Speaker 1: Over, you know, Yeah, I do know.
Speaker 2: Should we go to the next track? So the naract
Speaker 2: is love Drug?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so now this is I mean, so it's love Drug.
Speaker 2: So pretty much it's going to go ahead.
Speaker 3: And beard of love.
Speaker 1: You've heard of drug, heard of love, heard of love games.
Speaker 2: And still love drug Drug.
Speaker 1: And I actually like this one.
Speaker 2: I like it too, let's start there. I like this
Speaker 2: as well, although I'm going to listen to it on
Speaker 2: my headphones really quickly so I can that doesn't feel
Speaker 2: remember exactly, I'm gonna say something that Amy's gonna get
Speaker 2: mad at me for. And what is it?
Speaker 3: I don't want to get mad at you, just so
Speaker 3: you know, you just do stuff that is makes me mad.
Speaker 2: Okay. On first listening. I was really close listening to
Speaker 2: everything this, I was like, what does this remind me of?
Speaker 2: What does this remind me of? Katie Perry's I Kissed
Speaker 2: a Girl.
Speaker 3: I've seen people saying that I didn't really like hear
Speaker 3: that on first listen, but I get that. I mean,
Speaker 3: there's similar.
Speaker 2: D It's very like it felt so wrong, it felt
Speaker 2: so right, don't mean, and it's like very similar. You know,
Speaker 2: it's not illegal. Perry doesn't own that, but I I
Speaker 2: was a lot of this album was like I kept
Speaker 2: being like, what is that? It's so familiar, but it's
Speaker 2: just like a little bit off. Let's run through the tracks.
Speaker 2: We're gonna move quickly, okay, because because we want to
Speaker 2: talk broader and okay. So how Bad do you Want Me?
Speaker 2: The Taylor Swift sounding song? Obviously this scared me. I
Speaker 2: loved it, but George texted me, I love how bad
Speaker 2: do you Want Me? And I said what I did
Speaker 2: not realize?
Speaker 1: I mean I was I was like barely awake listening
Speaker 1: to the album for the first time it came on.
Speaker 1: It was catchy to me. I texted Sam, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I love how Bad do you Want Me? And he
Speaker 1: was like the Taylor Swift song, and I had no
Speaker 1: idea what he was talking about, and then I guess
Speaker 1: I looked it up and what is the story there?
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's a rumor that she like did
Speaker 2: background vocals on it or something fake. I mean, but
Speaker 2: I mean it just sounds.
Speaker 1: Identical, sounds like a Taylor Swift punk but it also
Speaker 1: sounds like Taylor Swift song by way of Gaga in
Speaker 1: the way that you know. I don't know, Uh, Edge
Speaker 1: of Glory is that type of song by way of Gaga?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just as like I'm just I look forward
Speaker 2: to one day finding peace with my relationship with Taylor Swift,
Speaker 2: but today is not that day.
Speaker 1: You're just allergic to that sound, so you can't let
Speaker 1: it into your heart.
Speaker 2: Exactly interesting.
Speaker 3: I think it also has a little bit of the
Speaker 3: Cure in it, not the band but the song.
Speaker 1: Yes, although funny made.
Speaker 3: A connection now that it had references to the cure
Speaker 3: of the band. I think this would be a perfect
Speaker 3: episode for me.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's move on to the next track, Don't Call Tonight.
Speaker 2: This is sort of reheating Alejandro's nachos.
Speaker 3: Oh oh oh, I see what you mean, Like a
Speaker 3: don't call tonight, don't call tonight. But there's also it
Speaker 3: made me also think of I'm not having fun tonight. Yeah,
Speaker 3: another song one tonight in it.
Speaker 2: Tonight is such a the.
Speaker 1: Idea of tonight really looms large and poppys.
Speaker 2: We'll talk about the concept of time.
Speaker 3: I could have a whole another episode talking about the
Speaker 3: concept of tonight.
Speaker 1: No, but truly, the concept of tonight is one of
Speaker 1: the most powerful, is one of the most powerful concepts
Speaker 1: because to talk about the passage of time, it's the
Speaker 1: idea of tonight is both now and not now. It
Speaker 1: is tonight, it's coming, but it's basically already.
Speaker 3: Happening, and it's it's almost already over.
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. The temporariness of it is really scary.
Speaker 1: It has this dual meaning where you can actually it
Speaker 1: can be morning and you can be talking about tonight
Speaker 1: and it's in the future, and it can be tonight
Speaker 1: and you can be like, I'm having fun tonight currently
Speaker 1: it denotes both future and present.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's an a compression of like actualizing
Speaker 3: on your desires. It's like you've got about eight hours,
Speaker 3: twelve hours, maybe fifteen, sixteen hours if you stay up,
Speaker 3: stay up all night, which becomes dawn, which Sam can
Speaker 3: speak to Donald cormatica later. But you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: you have you have a certain amount of time in
Speaker 3: which you can make the most of things. And that
Speaker 3: is a really like you know, that has a lot
Speaker 3: of charge to it in a pop pop writing landscape.
Speaker 2: It's also it's so.
Speaker 1: It's such a short amount of time. It's like, make
Speaker 1: the most of tonight, like make the most of the night.
Speaker 1: But also it is infinite, you know. It's it's like it's.
Speaker 3: Forever tonight, will last forever or most start tonight?
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2: Shadow of a Man, shadow of a Man?
Speaker 1: You love shadow of a Man?
Speaker 2: I heard Shadow of a Man. This is a it's
Speaker 2: hard to do. We should I want to continue rushing,
Speaker 2: but damn Shadow of a Man is crazy to reheat.
Speaker 2: Michael Jackson's natchos in like in such a way, like
Speaker 2: the production. Her voice sounds like Michael in a way
Speaker 2: that is jaw dropping. My jaw was on the floor
Speaker 2: picking up crumbs because it sounds so much like Michael,
Speaker 2: and I I was, you know, gagged in a positive sense.
Speaker 2: I think this song is so slay. I think it's
Speaker 2: so crazy and I loved it.
Speaker 3: I loved it too, and I saw that it was
Speaker 3: that she had used it in like Chromatica or something
Speaker 3: at the CHROMATICA Ball or something.
Speaker 2: She used the little intro sound.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and when it's like, it doesn't.
Speaker 3: Feel fair that you guys are re listening to it
Speaker 3: during the app.
Speaker 1: And I'm sorry I had to. I literally have not
Speaker 1: remembered a single song that we have talked. Really, yes,
Speaker 1: I mean I I and I listened to the album
Speaker 1: multiple times. I tried to prepare we're saying the title
Speaker 1: of each song. I have no idea what we're talking about.
Speaker 1: This was at the end of Man, Yeah, it is
Speaker 1: very okay, Okay, I'm getting the Michael Jackson.
Speaker 3: Yes, I do think about how she has his clothes
Speaker 3: a lot and what that must be like she has
Speaker 3: his clothes. Yeah, she like bought a bunch of his clothes.
Speaker 2: Oh, I didn't know that, but yeah. I remember watching
Speaker 2: the Chromatica Ball tour video and it ends with like,
Speaker 2: Lady Gaga, We'll return and it plays the very small
Speaker 2: snippet from the beginning of this song, which is funny.
Speaker 2: Then okay, we love what is the Beast? The Beast
Speaker 2: is a ballad that to me is the I think.
Speaker 2: Here's what I'll say. I think it works in the
Speaker 2: context of the album, but to me, it's the one
Speaker 2: song where I'm like, I'm okay.
Speaker 1: Okay, and then lade ahead.
Speaker 3: Oh that's it, Okay, go ahead and we'll leave it there.
Speaker 3: Blade of.
Speaker 2: Blade of Grass, Okay, here's here's a okay, Amy, get
Speaker 2: ready to scream. Guess who's nachos? This is reheating. Oh.
Speaker 2: I was listening to this and I was like, this
Speaker 2: sounds like something. It sounds like cold Play. Fuck, what's
Speaker 2: it called? Uh? Is it Viva la Vida? Yes, it's Viva.
Speaker 2: It's cold Play, Viva la Vida, Walk.
Speaker 3: Me through, Walk me through.
Speaker 2: So it's like.
Speaker 1: Like I know, oh, I know Viva.
Speaker 2: I know. So Plade of Grass is like the same thing.
Speaker 2: It's like like that. It's like slower, but I have
Speaker 2: to play it to listen to it to hear it.
Speaker 3: Wait into the mic or is that going to explode everything?
Speaker 1: I can play it unto the mic because I didn't.
Speaker 3: Hear Viva Avida like that.
Speaker 2: Let's see done? Do Wait?
Speaker 1: Are we both playing it? What is behind you? Huge?
Speaker 3: Roussellum bells ring and I get that. I get that,
Speaker 3: actually totally it did. And by the way, in about
Speaker 3: four months, it's going to be cold Playcore.
Speaker 1: Oh calling it?
Speaker 2: Now, what did you say?
Speaker 1: I said?
Speaker 3: I said in four months time, it's going to be
Speaker 3: cold Play Core.
Speaker 2: In four months time. Set your cows now talk about
Speaker 2: the passage of time. Four months four months?
Speaker 3: Like, whenever I do this podcast, I'm like, I'm an owl.
Speaker 1: You insult we're insulting you.
Speaker 3: No, No, I just feel like I speak and complete
Speaker 3: and comprehensible redlds, but a lot that has to understand me.
Speaker 2: You are.
Speaker 1: What's funny about what you said is it's exactly the
Speaker 1: kind of thing we would say. But then like it would,
Speaker 1: it's so ice to be like in four months, cold
Speaker 1: plays making a comeback. But then you said it and
Speaker 1: we're acting like you're insane.
Speaker 3: I feel like I feel like this is a critical part.
Speaker 1: You're literally coming at us and you're like, yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: speaking your language, like in four months it's Coldplay court and.
Speaker 2: We're like, what the fuck is she talking? So July July,
Speaker 2: we will be seeing Coldplay core. People will be blasting
Speaker 2: yellow at the fourth of July party.
Speaker 1: I do think. I do think that there's something so
Speaker 1: down the middle about Cold Play, and that is sort
Speaker 1: of where we're headed.
Speaker 3: I think I just think there's going to be sounds.
Speaker 3: I think Benson Boone in a way is like a
Speaker 3: precursor to Cold Blake. But he's too big of a voice.
Speaker 2: I guess maybe too big a voice there, because there
Speaker 2: will be an Indie Benson Boone. There will be like
Speaker 2: somebody being like, I can be indie and still be anthemic,
Speaker 2: and that's how we get to Cold Yes, imagine Dagons.
Speaker 3: So yeah, the Levita in a Blade of Grass.
Speaker 2: But that.
Speaker 1: People are saying that this is a worst song on
Speaker 1: the album.
Speaker 2: What Beast is the worst song by far.
Speaker 3: I had trouble with the Beast, but I also, you
Speaker 3: know what I liked about the Beast. I know we're
Speaker 3: not talking about the Beast, but I really liked how
Speaker 3: I like that little like I thought that was sure,
Speaker 3: sure that's old, but anyway, Yeah, she's gonna have these.
Speaker 3: She's gonna have big, big ballads that are sort of
Speaker 3: the you know, I think a piano ballad is essentially
Speaker 3: her soul, whether yes, whether you wanted to.
Speaker 1: Go, does the Beast have what it takes. I mean,
Speaker 1: we haven't gotten a You and I in a while.
Speaker 3: Well, I think these are supposed to be sort of
Speaker 3: in if we're doing an umbrella of the types of
Speaker 3: songs she does, I think those fit underneath a little bit.
Speaker 3: I mean, she does a piano ballad about love, like
Speaker 3: she's got a lot of those, and I think these
Speaker 3: are part of that.
Speaker 2: Blade of grass is very thousand doves coded to me,
Speaker 2: That's that was my first thought too.
Speaker 1: In fact, I think I would almost proposition that we
Speaker 1: change our rating system from zero to one thousand doves
Speaker 1: to zero to one thousand blades of grass.
Speaker 2: I think it's a genius move, and I think moving forward,
Speaker 2: you know, save for the pre recorded episodes that we
Speaker 2: have coming out the next few weeks, we will be
Speaker 2: changing it to blades of zero to one thousand blades
Speaker 2: of grass.
Speaker 3: And it's funny because you guys didn't prepare straight shooters
Speaker 3: for me, and so I don't even really get to
Speaker 3: even be a part of that, which is kind of
Speaker 3: also how I feel sometimes doing.
Speaker 1: It's so interesting because we put you on such a
Speaker 1: pedestal like this is a very special Yeah, Like to me,
Speaker 1: I'm like this is the this is we're interrupting our
Speaker 1: normal programming because you know, a queen has entered the chat,
Speaker 1: and yet you are thinking of it as us disrespecting
Speaker 1: or something.
Speaker 3: I feel yeah, like a plastic doll. No, I'm kidding,
Speaker 3: I'm kidding, But what do.
Speaker 1: You think about the Because to me, something interesting about
Speaker 1: Blade of Grass is compared to all the other titles
Speaker 1: and all the other visual motifs that we're seeing, a
Speaker 1: Blade of Grass is very different. It's actually not. It's
Speaker 1: not Halloween coded.
Speaker 3: No, well, it's got a story behind it, the Blade
Speaker 3: of Grass.
Speaker 2: Oh, the story?
Speaker 1: Yeah, what's the Blade of Grass story?
Speaker 3: I feel like this is the only thing I've ever
Speaker 3: learned in the history of learning things, which is that
Speaker 3: she she talked about being proposed to by her fiance, Michael,
Speaker 3: and he asked how to do it, and she was like,
Speaker 3: just take a blade of grass and wrap around my finger.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 2: So this is a classic Gaga where I'm like, that's
Speaker 2: that's a lie. Like, that's a lie.
Speaker 3: But don't you think, like having a bladi of grass
Speaker 3: around your finger is so cool? It's so kindergarten core,
Speaker 3: which was in the next five months.
Speaker 1: Yeah, kindergarten Yeah, after cold Play, Well, it's going to
Speaker 1: be coldly into kindergarten core.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be kindergarten fall, like everyone's going
Speaker 2: to be back to school. I guess.
Speaker 3: Nailed it.
Speaker 2: And then die with a smile.
Speaker 3: Well, I will say I was shocked, much like everybody else,
Speaker 3: to see that it actually made some kind of sense
Speaker 3: on the record.
Speaker 2: Me too, I think it makes a lot of sense
Speaker 2: in the context. Yeah, and I could have never predicted that.
Speaker 2: Not in my.
Speaker 3: Wildest dreams could I ever think a song such as
Speaker 3: this could flow so perfectly into the opus that is
Speaker 3: may Ham, which I believe it's may Ham Mayhm.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, okay, so okay, gone through the album.
Speaker 2: We've gone through the whole album. Here's a straight thought
Speaker 2: regarding Michael. I think it's funny that people are talking
Speaker 2: about Gaga in context of bear community. People are saying
Speaker 2: that Michael is a bear, that she's one of us,
Speaker 2: that she likes bears in a way that I think
Speaker 2: is so funny because because also I actually do think
Speaker 2: it's charming and like refreshing that she's just like found
Speaker 2: a like average guy, like looking like he's like not
Speaker 2: like smelt or like fifteen years younger or something.
Speaker 1: She has also been sort of normal looking though, because
Speaker 1: she's not someone who has ever gone for the hospitals
Speaker 1: and the roster, has she.
Speaker 3: What do you think is on Hanks?
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's a good question. I actually think so
Speaker 1: people are so hungry for a normal guy because they
Speaker 1: don't exist anywhere, right, This.
Speaker 2: Is what I mean.
Speaker 3: I think this is kind of the normal undercurrent we're
Speaker 3: talking about.
Speaker 1: And I actually think you know who's a real pioneer
Speaker 1: there is Lana del Rey. Well, I mean I think
Speaker 1: she opened the doors. Yes, no, there's no time, but she.
Speaker 1: I think the ultimate fetish for straight women, white straight
Speaker 1: white women especially, the ultimate fetish is a normal guy
Speaker 1: because it's mean you don't find anymore because on the
Speaker 1: one hand, you have you know, uh, you know, you
Speaker 1: have sort of brook guys like Brooklyn fat men'swear guys.
Speaker 1: And then huh did you say FAF. Did you say
Speaker 1: FAF No, I said Brooklyn, Brooklyn FAF weird?
Speaker 2: Pat, I don't know you said Brooklyn FAF.
Speaker 1: I did, I said Brooklyn men'swear guys. I did not
Speaker 1: said something with.
Speaker 3: An F say the letter like like you were British
Speaker 3: like faff about that too?
Speaker 1: What was Brooklyn faf Brooklyn I, I doesn't want to
Speaker 1: make On the one side of things, you have Brooklyn men'swear,
Speaker 1: you know, this sort of like fuck boy. And then
Speaker 1: on the other side of things we have in cells.
Speaker 1: And so those are the two options for women currently
Speaker 1: and so there's this well they are trying to find
Speaker 1: who is the normal one? Who is the normal one
Speaker 1: in the middle.
Speaker 3: I think there's so many more veret of weird guys
Speaker 3: you didn't touch on.
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess again fill in the blanks.
Speaker 3: I think, what about the guys that have sort of
Speaker 3: the Seneca profile pictures and and the people that.
Speaker 1: Streamers And yes there's streamers, Christian photographers.
Speaker 3: Christian photographers, Christian.
Speaker 1: There's still the poets. Of course there are, of course.
Speaker 1: Something I didn't mention is the so called finance bro.
Speaker 1: That's a big archetype. They do exist to this day
Speaker 1: and age is the finance bro. There's of course a
Speaker 1: crypto bro. Yeah, but again all these what they have
Speaker 1: in common is that they're not normal, and so women
Speaker 1: are desperate for something that's down the line. Well, he's
Speaker 1: a tech guy, isn't he he's a tech guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Next, let's go over the track list again. Disease, I
Speaker 3: love that shit, Aberkada do it again? Great, Pardon to Beaton.
Speaker 3: I love those chips.
Speaker 2: Next, do we let's talk broad okay, broad strokes. What
Speaker 2: do we think? I think personally, I want to say
Speaker 2: I'm standing. I think I was uh. I think it's
Speaker 2: settling really nicely with me, where at first I was like,
Speaker 2: hold on, this is not what I was expecting, And
Speaker 2: now I'm finding it to be so fun. I'm finding
Speaker 2: part of the charm to be her confidence in it
Speaker 2: and her like joy in it, where she doesn't seem
Speaker 2: like she's saying like do you like this? Like she's
Speaker 2: saying like I like this, and that is all that matters.
Speaker 1: There's no desperation.
Speaker 3: That's what I mean about her embracing like an adulthood.
Speaker 3: That feels really good. And I think, you know, we're
Speaker 3: talking about all of this, and I we're talking about
Speaker 3: what like a modern pop star is, and we're getting
Speaker 3: like really heady with it, of course, but also I think,
Speaker 3: like Gaga's impact, you just you can't deny you can't
Speaker 3: deny her unbelievable craft and at at least at at
Speaker 3: least giving us something that aims to unite, you know,
Speaker 3: a bunch of people get together and dissect this and that,
Speaker 3: which is really like I think it's in a moment
Speaker 3: where that type of like fanfare over something is struggling.
Speaker 3: So I welcome I welcome it, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. I do think it's really nice for
Speaker 2: the community to come together. I've like actually mostly just
Speaker 2: enjoyed this weekend and being like everyone's talking about it,
Speaker 2: everyone's like having their little opinion, and it's so fun
Speaker 2: to be like, God, yeah, Page, I think.
Speaker 3: That's what I've been trying to say this whole time,
Speaker 3: where it's like having everybody everyone having their little opinion
Speaker 3: is like essentially what we're trying to do, what we're
Speaker 3: trying to enjoy, you know what I mean, like the
Speaker 3: rock world kind of congregating under I just wanted to
Speaker 3: drop in and check in about what it even means
Speaker 3: to sort of be a fan in this moment in time.
Speaker 2: I know, how do you guys feel about aging?
Speaker 3: About aging?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: If I do it anyway like Gaga, it'll be a
Speaker 3: total victory.
Speaker 2: Well, I do feel I want to say, like I
Speaker 2: find it interesting. Part of the Passage of Time element
Speaker 2: is that it is fun to see how she approaches
Speaker 2: pop music because I'm you know, as silly people. I'm
Speaker 2: sort of like, how do I approach Like when I
Speaker 2: hear a Tate McCray song, I'm like, what is my
Speaker 2: emotion supposed to be? Like? Am I supposed to love this?
Speaker 2: And be like I stand Tate McCrae, Where's my emotion
Speaker 2: supposed to be? Like that's for children. I'm an adult,
Speaker 2: and I think she's like almost giving us a path
Speaker 2: forward for frivolity where it's like you don't need to
Speaker 2: be like like pretending you're twenty two, and nor do
Speaker 2: you need to be pretending you're a hundred.
Speaker 1: That's genius yep, And actually like she has done both.
Speaker 1: She pretended she was one hundred with Tony Bennett and
Speaker 1: with her Oscar campaign she pretended she was twenty two.
Speaker 1: Kind of sorry, but like with parts of Gramatica, with
Speaker 1: parts of even just like her with Aria I Listen,
Speaker 1: I Love rain on Me, but there was something childlike
Speaker 1: about that. She was sort of like trying it on
Speaker 1: for size, Like what if I'm dancing and I'm a
Speaker 1: kindness punk and I'm in the rain, and I do
Speaker 1: think there is this like she tried one side to
Speaker 1: try the other, and now she's come out in the
Speaker 1: middle and she seems self actualized. Yeah, and that's kind
Speaker 1: of what the best you can hope for.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I find that to be good. I think.
Speaker 3: Yeah, any response, I was gonna ask a question about
Speaker 3: if you could design an album, if you could design
Speaker 3: a either a Gaga album, I guess, or like a
Speaker 3: pop star which you would feel like lifted up and
Speaker 3: electrified by by this combination of things that they did,
Speaker 3: what would it be?
Speaker 1: So your question is what would our her dream pop
Speaker 1: STARB Is that so crazy?
Speaker 2: I'm not. I didn't say.
Speaker 1: It's so crazy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, sort of you were like, okay, wow, here's this,
Speaker 3: here's this.
Speaker 1: They do this type of She's like this nine feet.
Speaker 2: Tall, right. She has Whitney Houston's vocals, got it writing,
Speaker 2: but she actually doesn't use them.
Speaker 1: She does all auto tune. It sounds really bad. It's
Speaker 1: like Kim Petra's auto tune.
Speaker 3: But she has a voice.
Speaker 2: She has she has a voice.
Speaker 1: She just saying karaoke. You would be shocked. But she
Speaker 1: refuses on principle to do that when she gets into
Speaker 1: the studio.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say something really controversial. Her hair it's ombre,
Speaker 2: it's ombre.
Speaker 3: So and when we're talking about what kind of colors,
Speaker 3: we're talking brown to blonde.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the traditional brass blonde.
Speaker 2: And she's nine nine feet tall with ombray beach waves.
Speaker 1: At hell, those beach waves are going straight down, like
Speaker 1: down to her anger as to her ass, nine foot
Speaker 1: beach waves from her head down to her ankles.
Speaker 3: Got it.
Speaker 1: She has the voice of an angel, but you literally
Speaker 1: wouldn't know it. In fact, everyone is singing. She sounds
Speaker 1: she clearly like has no vocal talent. That's what she
Speaker 1: always has autotune.
Speaker 3: There is no one even the controversy about her ability
Speaker 3: to sing. But secretly she s.
Speaker 1: But and she as part of her as part of
Speaker 1: her act, like as part of her performance and her
Speaker 1: like you know, performance of self. She she is not
Speaker 1: revealing that she can sing.
Speaker 2: And she like every time she has a live performance
Speaker 2: where she's like I'm doing like we're all like, a
Speaker 2: fly flies into her mouth and she like, and so
Speaker 2: people think she can't sing, like there's no proof that
Speaker 2: she can sing.
Speaker 1: Singing live, she's singing singing into an autotune mic.
Speaker 2: And so it like she's like, you know, it's like
Speaker 2: not beating the can't sing allegations, I fear, and actually
Speaker 2: there are.
Speaker 1: All these yeah, and there are all these like bootlegs.
Speaker 1: It's like people that have been in the studio with
Speaker 1: her know she can sing, and so there's like all
Speaker 1: these rumors like, yeah, there's these are the real vocals
Speaker 1: to Sound of Change, but no one Sound of Changes
Speaker 1: the album. It's one of the singles, but it was
Speaker 1: one of the less successful ones.
Speaker 3: So so she's okay, So I'm just saying the album, Okay.
Speaker 1: This is no the album.
Speaker 2: The album is called critically back, two steps back.
Speaker 3: Okay, Now, keep in mind, as you agree on that
Speaker 3: this is like the biggest album, it's her. I would
Speaker 3: say it's her. It's it's cementing her as part of
Speaker 3: a great lineage of pop acts, and it's critically and.
Speaker 2: You have to it's like one of those things where
Speaker 2: like if you try to explain it to like a child,
Speaker 2: they're like, I don't see why this was good, and
Speaker 2: you're like, trust me.
Speaker 3: So what is that two steps back?
Speaker 1: It's referencing a famous review of one of her other albums.
Speaker 1: That's saying she took one step forward, two steps back.
Speaker 1: Who wrote that pitch four, The New York Times. New
Speaker 1: York Times wrote it, amy, by the.
Speaker 3: Way, it's not so wild to even suggest that Pitchfork
Speaker 3: could be doing that, since they review pop albums.
Speaker 1: By the way, no, I know, but this is I mean,
Speaker 1: in this be so she's not commenting on Pitchfork like
Speaker 1: that would.
Speaker 3: Be so, by the way, I think you, I think
Speaker 3: you fundamentally misunderstand the media landscape. But pitchforks like whatever. Okay, okay,
Speaker 3: So New York Times said once at four two steps back,
Speaker 3: she's coming out swinging with this album. What are the
Speaker 3: sounds that we're hearing.
Speaker 1: Well, it's obviously electroclash.
Speaker 3: I hear electric clash.
Speaker 2: I'm hearing electroclash. I mean it's it's it has some
Speaker 2: euro dance elements.
Speaker 1: It's eurodance means heavy metal.
Speaker 2: One thing is that she's always seen at clubs, like
Speaker 2: she actually does go out.
Speaker 3: Okay, always at clubs Georgia anything.
Speaker 1: I'm doing a mad because she's of course nine feet tall,
Speaker 1: so she it's like she can't really hide from the paparazzi.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she is polyamorous, m hmm, bisexual.
Speaker 1: Bisexual, and she does. She's she says controversial things like
Speaker 1: she'll like randomly say like the f slur, but it's
Speaker 1: like she kind of can. It's like weird, she kind
Speaker 1: of can. But she also in her normal life is
Speaker 1: like maybe super trad and like, isn't she's polytrad. She's polytrad. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's like more men basically. And in terms of her fashion,
Speaker 1: she tried to like the fashion world tried to embrace her,
Speaker 1: but then she literally was like these are just a
Speaker 1: bunch of faggots like that was she was just like,
Speaker 1: I don't want to be around this many gay men.
Speaker 3: She's not fashion. She is she she is fashion.
Speaker 1: It's complicated. She'll wear like a large nightgown.
Speaker 2: So does that answer your question?
Speaker 3: Yeah, well I'm just tallying it up and I'm crunching
Speaker 3: the numbers.
Speaker 1: So it's the result of the number.
Speaker 3: Well, I I really, I really didn't plan this, and
Speaker 3: I don't mean to even be saying this, but you
Speaker 3: have described more than not Lady Gaga herself, and I'm
Speaker 3: not even exaggerating or reaching here has a voice, but
Speaker 3: doesn't have a voice. She's I mean, being five foot
Speaker 3: tall is a lot like being nine foot's controversial singing
Speaker 3: live fly in her throat. I think that happens sort.
Speaker 1: Of being secretly tad. I definitely think Gaga really wants
Speaker 1: a husband.
Speaker 2: I mean you've seen her at home, right, so.
Speaker 3: Just think the qualities you've touched on here are qualities
Speaker 3: of the woman herself.
Speaker 2: Well, that's huge. I mean I think that time will
Speaker 2: keep on passing and that Gaga will keep keep on standing,
Speaker 2: and I'm so curious as to how she'll reflect on
Speaker 2: us next time.
Speaker 1: I agree. Yeah, God bless her, God bless her.
Speaker 2: Shout out to Mayhem. I you know, life is chaos
Speaker 2: and you really prove that. Yeah, I'm so glad the
Speaker 2: community can come together. And being in your thirties is
Speaker 2: actually rocks.
Speaker 3: I wish I knew, but it was like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're forty seven, right, you skipped that.
Speaker 1: And I just want to say, go out there and
Speaker 1: reheat your own nachos because you deserve it.
Speaker 2: Amy does that make you mad?
Speaker 3: No, it doesn't, It doesn't at all. And yeah, this
Speaker 3: was really fun and I want to say thank you
Speaker 3: for having me because I know we can have a
Speaker 3: little fun here and there. But I'm honored to do
Speaker 3: this with you guys. And yeah, I don't know, it
Speaker 3: feels sometimes like what we say about this could have
Speaker 3: real geopolitical impacts.
Speaker 2: So it will.
Speaker 3: Yeah, sometimes I can feel, yeah, like a lot on
Speaker 3: the line. But when I'm with you guys, I think
Speaker 3: I feel safe.
Speaker 2: Blade of Grass, And it's the honor to have you
Speaker 2: on and to discuss this, this artist and this artwork.
Speaker 2: You have incredible insights and always have and always will.
Speaker 2: And we can't wait to have you back when we
Speaker 2: don't need to discuss yeah, and some of the most
Speaker 2: important pieces of work of all time and can just
Speaker 2: gab and.
Speaker 1: Goof Yeah, what's your straight topic going to be next time?
Speaker 3: Go my straight topic for next time?
Speaker 1: Hot sauce, Hot sauce. All right, huge, love that, See
Speaker 1: you in.
Speaker 2: Cold Play Summer.
Speaker 3: See you in cold Play Summer.
Speaker 2: Okay, bye bye podcast and now want more?
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Speaker 2: Stradia Lab is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money
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Speaker 1: Created and hosted by George Severis and Sam Taggart.
Speaker 2: Executive produced by Will Ferrell, Han Soni and Olivia Aguilar.
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Speaker 2: Ben Kling