1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:02,639 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 2 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 2: A Fall City boy massacres his family while his little sister, 3 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 2: just eleven, plays dead in order to save her own life. Now, 4 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 2: his defense attorneys aren't calling the boy polite, telling the 5 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 2: judge he loves camping and fishing. I'mancy Grace, this is 6 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 2: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. 7 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 3: Fall City is an idyllic small town just outside of Seattle, Washington, 8 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 3: nestled between rivers and mountains. The perfect plays for a 9 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 3: seemingly perfect family like the Humiston's until one October morning, 10 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 3: when multiple gunshots are heard from the Hummiston family home. 11 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 4: The eleven year old sister says she shares a room 12 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 4: with her sister Catherine, and they were awakened by the 13 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 4: sound of gunshots. Looking out the bedroom door to the hallway, 14 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 4: she could see her nine year old brother Joshua with 15 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 4: blood in his mouth and her dad Mark with blood 16 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 4: on his head lying in the hallway. Seven year old 17 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 4: Catherine gets out of bed and enters the hallway from 18 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 4: their bedroom and another shot rings out. 19 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:11,400 Speaker 1: Catherine falls to the floor. 20 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 2: This eleven year old girl reports that she played dead, 21 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 2: played dead in order to save her own life. Imagine 22 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 2: what this young girl has survived. The only surviving member 23 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 2: of the family. She then manages somehow to escape through 24 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 2: a window. 25 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: Listen. 26 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 5: The eleven year old girl with two gunshot wounds tells 27 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,479 Speaker 5: nine to one one dispatch she survived the attack by 28 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 5: holding her breadth and pretending to be dead when the 29 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 5: gunman came into her room to check on her. As 30 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 5: soon as the gunman left, the girl says, she climbed 31 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 5: out of a fire window, ran into the middle of 32 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 5: the street, and when she looked into the window of 33 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 5: the front of their home, she saw the gunman who 34 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 5: shot her. 35 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 2: It's not the first time that we have heard of 36 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 2: little children climbing through winds to save. 37 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:02,559 Speaker 1: Their own life. 38 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 2: I'm sure you all recall the little boy who climbs 39 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 2: through a window his hands shackled, starved, at the hands 40 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 2: of his own mother, Ruby Frankie, the online megastar who 41 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 2: gives out parenting advice her children. Found abused and starving, shackled, mistreated, 42 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 2: forced to work outside in deadly heat, and barefoot, he 43 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 2: manages to escape through a window, run to a neighbor 44 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 2: to save his life and his little sister's life. And 45 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 2: then there is, of course, the house of horrors, The 46 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 2: Turpin Family horror where all of the children were beaten 47 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 2: and starved systematically, and one girl finally bravely gets through 48 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 2: a window to run to neighbors to call nine. 49 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: To one one. 50 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 2: Imagine an eleven year old girl playing dead and then 51 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 2: climbing through a second story window to save her own life. 52 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 2: That is what we are talking about. Where is Fall City? 53 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 2: What is Fall City? Joining me in all star panel 54 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 2: to make sense of what we know right now, But 55 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 2: first I want to go out to special guest, chief 56 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 2: US investigative reporter with dailymail. 57 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: Dot Com, Harmonia Rodriguez. Harmonia, thank you for being with us. 58 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: Where and what is Fall City? Thank you? Nancy. 59 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 6: So Yeah, False City in Washington State is just thirty 60 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 6: thirty miles for east of Seattle, and it's really what 61 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 6: everyone has described as a picture perfect place to raise 62 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 6: your family. It's actually where a lot of the scenes 63 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 6: for the iconic show A Twin Peak was filmed. Back 64 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 6: in the day. The chief of police right outside the 65 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 6: scenes said that this is a type of place where 66 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 6: families come to raise their families after making money in 67 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 6: other places. This actually was in the Lake Alice neighborhood 68 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 6: as we're seeing there. This house was right by the water. 69 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 6: Neighbors described a family as really, as I said, looking 70 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 6: picture perfect, going out to the lake doing water sports, 71 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 6: plane activities. We now know that they were homeschooled and 72 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 6: that neighbors just said that they seem like a very 73 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 6: Christian family, very dedicated parents. The mom appeared to have 74 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 6: been a nurse, but has had since been staying at 75 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 6: home with the children. But as we are now uncovering, 76 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 6: it appears that there was a horrific situation behind what 77 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 6: appeared like the perfect American family in this perfect woody 78 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 6: Washington state location. 79 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 2: Now, another interesting thing about this, and let me go 80 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 2: out to a veteran trial lawyer joining us along with 81 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 2: Harmonia Rodriguez from Deally mail. Guy DeAndrea is with us 82 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 2: former prosecutor now lawyer at Lafey Butch DeAndrea Reich and 83 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 2: Ryan Guy. 84 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:50,600 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. 85 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 2: Another thing is, according to what I've learned during this investigation, 86 00:04:55,520 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 2: is a very very low population two thoul and eighteen 87 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,919 Speaker 2: people as of the twenty twenty two census. Now what 88 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 2: does that mean. That means it's very low crime, It's 89 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 2: in an almost rural setting, it's on a lake front 90 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 2: lake Alice, and you don't have a lot of people 91 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 2: coming in and out of the area, which greatly reduces crime. 92 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: Guy, it does, Thank you for having me, Nancy. 93 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 7: It does reduce crime. But representing abused and assaulted children. Now, 94 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 7: in my private practice, I always take issue or at 95 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 7: least raises a red flag when a family has a 96 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 7: child in a very isolated setting and then chooses to 97 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:41,839 Speaker 7: isolate even further by homeschooling their children. No one knows 98 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 7: what's going on inside of that house, so there's at 99 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 7: least something to look into as potential red flags as 100 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 7: to what was really happening. 101 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 2: Guy, Dandrea, are you actually attacking homeschooling now? 102 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 3: Are you? 103 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 2: Because there are millions of children across the country that 104 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 2: are being homeschooled and they're doing fairly well at it. 105 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 2: Mine are in regular school, but no doubt. I mean, 106 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 2: my first cousin homeschools. Her children are brilliant. They've been 107 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 2: reading Shakespeare when they were in the third grade for 108 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 2: Pete's sake, and mine were like doing their ABC. 109 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: So I don't know where you're going with this. Are 110 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 1: you somehow blaming the. 111 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 2: Dead parents the whole family's been massacred, and you're saying, oh, 112 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 2: homeschooling red flag, that's what you've got to see me. 113 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 7: No, no, no, When you're all already in an isolated. 114 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: Community, somebody's doing the backstroke. 115 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 7: What so when you're already in an isolated community and 116 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 7: then you isolate your children even further, I just think 117 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 7: it's something to look into which will be taken into consideration. 118 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 7: I'm sure when they're looking into the factors that the 119 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 7: core will have to consider. 120 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 2: Guys, an eleven year old girl suffers two gunshot wounds, 121 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 2: then she manages to escape. Harmonia Rodriguez, another question for you, 122 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 2: Harmonia joining US chief US investigative reporter with dailymail dot Com. Harmonia, 123 00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 2: the little girl is shot twice. Now, I've looked the 124 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 2: layout of the home and I think she got out 125 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 2: of a second story window. 126 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:06,239 Speaker 1: Is that correct? 127 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 6: Yeah, so one of the nine one one calls the 128 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 6: girl managed to make from a neighbor's house. Actually, she 129 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 6: got there, as you mentioned, by jumping out of her 130 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 6: window after pretending that she had been killed. Because she 131 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 6: was shot twice, once in the neck and once in 132 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 6: the hand. She's actually out of the hospital a hospital 133 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 6: right now. 134 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: And doing well. 135 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 6: But yeah, she jumped out of her bedroom window after 136 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 6: her little sister was killed, after she herself was shot twice, 137 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 6: and then ran to a neighbor's home. Apparently the neighbor 138 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 6: had some medical training and was able to help her 139 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 6: and help her call nine one one, and that's how 140 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:41,559 Speaker 6: police reached the scene. 141 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: Joining me right now. 142 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 2: In addition to doctor Kendall Crowns, Hermania Rodriguez, Attorney Guyandy 143 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 2: Andrea is Barry Hutchinson, former law enforcement veteran, owner and 144 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 2: chief investigator for Barry and Associate Investigation Services, located Kansas 145 00:07:58,400 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 2: and Missouri. 146 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: Mary, thank you for being with us. You know what 147 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: very a miracle. Now. 148 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 2: A lot of people will say, uh, just bad aim 149 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 2: that that eleven year old girl survived. It's a miracle, 150 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 2: and you and I have seen it a million times 151 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 2: in court and homicide investigations. The one that lived, to 152 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 2: steal a phrase from Harry Potter, the girl who lived. 153 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: I find this to be a miracle. 154 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 2: Shot twice, Barry, and we've seen it over and over 155 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 2: in horrible, horrible mass homicides like this Fall City massacre. 156 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 2: One person lives, shot twice, plays dead, sees her whole 157 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 2: family brutally murdered, jumps out of a second story window 158 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 2: and somehow stands up and runs. 159 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,319 Speaker 1: Barry Hutchinson, Yeah, it was amazing. 160 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 8: I guess it just shows that the child's will to 161 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 8: live and God was with I mean, that's all there 162 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 8: is too. 163 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,839 Speaker 2: You were hearing about two nine one one calls from 164 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 2: Harmonia Rodriguez listen. 165 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 4: Humiston is reporting the massacre of his family at the 166 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 4: hand of his thirteen year old brother when another call 167 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,479 Speaker 4: comes into the nine one one center at five two am. 168 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 4: Bradley Dennis lives down the street from the Humiston residence 169 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 4: and says, the eleven year old sister of Humiston arrived 170 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 4: at his home, ringing the doorbell over and over until 171 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,319 Speaker 4: they answered the door. The girl says her family has 172 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 4: been shot and are all dead. Bradley Dennis says, the 173 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 4: girl appears injured by a possible gunshot wound and she 174 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 4: is bleeding from her neck in hand. 175 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 2: Straight back out to Harmonia Rodriguez Harmonia. So the eleven 176 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 2: year old girl jumps from a second story window, runs, 177 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 2: but there is another call. The other call is from 178 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:52,359 Speaker 2: inside the family home the bathroom. 179 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 1: Who is calling? 180 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:56,839 Speaker 6: So, yes, the person that we now know was a 181 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 6: fifteen year old shooter calls nine to one one from 182 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 6: the bathroom of the home and tells police that his 183 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 6: thirteen year old brother, Benjamin killed his entire family with 184 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 6: his father's gun. Now police arrive and start looking at 185 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 6: the scene and start really looking at whether what the 186 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 6: fifteen year old said was true. But speaking of the 187 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 6: miracle of the nine year old girl, the eleven year 188 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 6: old girl who survived pardon, she also had a different 189 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 6: story to tell police. 190 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 2: Barry Hudson, joining me twenty six years in LA law enforcement, 191 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 2: veteran detective and now owner of Barry and Associates Investigative Services. 192 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 2: Barry the defense with a straight face in court, said 193 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 2: you should let him out, Judge, because he's been described 194 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 2: as very polite, and he loves water sports and camping. 195 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 8: So did David burker Woods, you know, Son saying. 196 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 2: Truer words were never spoken, Barry, Explain what you're saying. 197 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 8: David Burkowitz, who was the son of Sam Killer in 198 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 8: New York City, had never ever been in any kind 199 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 8: of trouble. He was described by everybody that knew him 200 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 8: as being the most polite person that you had or 201 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 8: possibly could ever meet. And a lot of people liked him, 202 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 8: but he killed six or seven people. 203 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 2: And again, Mary Hutchinson, this is not mister congeniality. I'm 204 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 2: not asking for him to be crowned the king of 205 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 2: the ninth grade. Okay, that's not where This is about 206 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 2: five people, including and you heard doctor Lisa Long say 207 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 2: it's very rare that a young boy will murder his 208 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:32,719 Speaker 2: own mother. You know about last year sometime we were 209 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 2: all having we went out for a brunch on a 210 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 2: Saturday morning, and my son was changing and putting on 211 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,599 Speaker 2: a sweatshirt at the table, and when he did, he 212 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 2: stretched his arm out he bought me in the head. 213 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 2: Do you know he still apologizes for hitting me in 214 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 2: the head, but he was changing his sweatshirt. To this day, 215 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 2: it's been over a year, and he still feels bad 216 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 2: about that one little thing. 217 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: Just when Lisa Long. 218 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 2: Said it's very rare that a mother is murdered by 219 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 2: a child, I'm curious and I don't know that I'll 220 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 2: ever get the answer in this case. What drove him 221 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,319 Speaker 2: to murder his whole family, including a seven year old 222 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 2: little sister and a mother. But that said Barry Hutchinson, 223 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 2: I played sound earlier when Dereck Rosa I believe Derek 224 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 2: was about fourteen years old when he I guess angry 225 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 2: because mom had remarried and had a baby. 226 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: Dereck Rosa was an honor student. 227 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 2: All A's very sweet, described as timid and mild. 228 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: He murdered his mother. Murdered her with. 229 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 2: The baby sleeping, the baby sisters sleeping right beside her 230 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:53,439 Speaker 2: in a baby bed. 231 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,679 Speaker 1: He was polite too, Barry Hutchinson. 232 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 9: That's true. 233 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 8: I mean, in today's day and age, there's so much 234 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 8: evil out there. I mean, there's really no explanation to 235 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 8: a lot of the stuff that happens. We just kind 236 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 8: of have to pick up the pieces and work the 237 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 8: crimes as they occur. And it's really, really, really an 238 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 8: awful thing, and you know, it's hard to deal with 239 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 8: and on a lot of occasions, if you don't mind, 240 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 8: I'd like to revert back to some of the characteristics 241 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 8: about the shooting and the positioning of the gun that 242 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 8: the doctor was speaking of earlier. There's a phenomenon known 243 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 8: if your firearm's instructor or a lot of times when 244 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 8: you work homicide cases or even shooting cases, there's a 245 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 8: phenomenon known as the lemp resting a handgun, Okay, especially 246 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 8: somebody that has a handgun in their non dominant hand. 247 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 8: And we have to really combat this when we teach 248 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 8: firearm tactics in the police academy. If you don't hold 249 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 8: a gun in a proper way, you don't exert the 250 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 8: right amount of strength for the firearm itself, the actual 251 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,439 Speaker 8: slide on the gun will have what's called a stove 252 00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 8: pipe malfunction. If that thirteen year old boy I would 253 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 8: have shot that gun with this non dominant hand, there 254 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 8: is a very very high likelihood that that gun would 255 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:11,239 Speaker 8: have experienced a malfunction of what I just described. 256 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: Plus the sibling on. 257 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 8: The other side of his head would be indicative of 258 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 8: showing whether or not that gun was close to the 259 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 8: head or if it was an execution shot. And beyond 260 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 8: the physical aspects of that you spoke of earlier, it's 261 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 8: almost impossible. And I would go as far as say 262 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 8: that as long as I've been around cases like this, 263 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 8: I've never known anybody to shoot theirself twice in the 264 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 8: head like that. Never, And I'm sure that you know 265 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 8: freak things can happen. I've just never personally experienced that. 266 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 8: And the other thing that really bothered me about the 267 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 8: case also was the cold calculations of this child and 268 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 8: the mindset that he had. Like you said earlier, he 269 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 8: went from body to body and checked to see their 270 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 8: vibals whether or not they were dead. And the father 271 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 8: had an execute she'd shot behind his left ear. That's 272 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 8: how heins this crime was. That's how hens this individual 273 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 8: child was that committed this murder or these murders. 274 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 3: A chilling nine one one call at four fifty five 275 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 3: in the early hours of the morning details a grizzly 276 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 3: crime scene of fifteen year old's. Entire family has been 277 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 3: shot dead in the dark of the night, with the 278 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 3: soul survivor being the eldest son. 279 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 2: The entire family wiped out except for the eleven year 280 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 2: old little girl and the fifteen year old boy who's 281 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 2: barricaded himself in the family bathroom. 282 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: To call nine one. 283 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 2: One two, Harmonia Rodriguez, tell me where the bodies were found. 284 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 6: Right, so, we now know that the body of the father, 285 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 6: Mark was found in the first floor, as well as 286 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 6: of Joshua nine and Benjamin thirteen, and then Sarah the 287 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 6: mother was found it bent over in her bathroom that 288 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 6: was inside her bedroom in the second floor, and Catherine, 289 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 6: the seven year old girl, was shot, as we discussed, 290 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 6: as she was exiting the room that she shared with 291 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 6: the eleven year old girl, and the fifteen year old, 292 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 6: as we mentioned, was found in a bathroom hiding allegedly. 293 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 2: I'm trying to make sense of what we are hearing 294 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 2: straight out to Guy DeAndrea, former prosecutor, veteran trial lawyer. Guy, 295 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 2: So it seems to me the dad and correct me 296 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 2: if I'm wrong. Harmonia and one brother are found on 297 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 2: the first floor. I don't believe that there are bedrooms 298 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 2: on the I don't believe that that's where they slept. 299 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 2: So they were on the first floor. The mom was 300 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 2: in a different bathroom. It sounds like some of the 301 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 2: shootings started in one of the children's bedrooms, and that 302 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 2: the mom ran one way and the dad and little 303 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 2: brother ran a different way. Mom's barricading her in one 304 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 2: bathroom and dad and brother are downstairs. 305 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 1: Does it? 306 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 2: I mean, think about it, Guy, it's four fifty five 307 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 2: a m. 308 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: What does that tell you about the sequence of events? Guy? 309 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:17,120 Speaker 7: Yeah, the father running downstairs makes sense in terms of 310 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 7: what's going on. Where is this shooting happening? Right, the 311 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 7: younger brother. It does seem strange to me that he 312 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 7: would be down there with the father. Look, anything could happen, 313 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:29,879 Speaker 7: you know, but you would think from a parental perspective, 314 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 7: if the father saw the one child, he would tell 315 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 7: him go back to your room, go back to your room, 316 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 7: daddy's got it, or something to that effect. 317 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 2: Unless unless the shooting was upstairs. Guy, if the shooting 318 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 2: is happening upstairs, and just let's just go with this, 319 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 2: all it through to its logical conclusion. The shooting, if 320 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 2: it erupts upstairs, then I could see the dad and 321 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:55,120 Speaker 2: the little boy running out into the hallway and then 322 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 2: taking off downstairs. 323 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 1: We know, I can see that Harmonia is the mom 324 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: in an upstairs bedroom, upstairs bathroom. 325 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 6: Correct, she was in the bathroom of her room. 326 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: Which was upstairs. 327 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 2: There's Mark the dad, Sarah the mom, Benjamin thirteen, Joshua nine, 328 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 2: Catherine seven, and the eleven year old little sister that survived. Right, 329 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 2: that's correct, Yes, Benjamin's thirteen. 330 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: Benjamin. 331 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 2: I find that statistically hard to believe, doctor Lisa, that 332 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 2: a thirteen year old boy. 333 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: Unlisia's on his whole family. 334 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:34,120 Speaker 2: I mean, at that age, if he looked at porn online. 335 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: If that's a big if if he did at that age. 336 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 2: I would think that he would be more embarrassed than angry. 337 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 10: What about it, doctor, Yeah, I absolutely agree with you, Nancy, 338 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 10: And you're correct that the rate of familia side is 339 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 10: extremely low. So there's so many factors that need to 340 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 10: be looked at in this case, especially if we were 341 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 10: going to assume that the thirteen year old boy had 342 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 10: partaken in any of this, there are a multitude of factors, 343 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 10: risk factors that we would want to look at and protective. 344 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: Factors such as. 345 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 10: So as far as the risk factors go, was there 346 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 10: any criminal history for any of the juveniles involved in. 347 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: Like I tell you right now, there was zero, doctor 348 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: Lisa long right. 349 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,719 Speaker 10: And earlier you brought up, Nancy that they were describing 350 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,640 Speaker 10: the they were describing the fifteen year old boy as 351 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:36,919 Speaker 10: being kind and joining camping, So really being able to 352 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 10: weigh out, you know, in each specific case, we need 353 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 10: to look at everything and the culmination of there any 354 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 10: adverse childhood experiences, so the ACES score for these kids 355 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 10: and really going through and looking at is there any 356 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 10: history of acting out behavior? I know they were homeschooled, 357 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 10: We discussed that earlier. 358 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 9: Do they have involvement within the community. Were they really isolated? 359 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,120 Speaker 9: And it's my understanding that they weren't. 360 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 1: Isolated crime stories with Nancy Grace. 361 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 2: Doctor Wallisa, let me ask you another question, and when 362 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 2: you say it's statistically low, I'm just going anecdotally and 363 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 2: guessing when there is a family massacre, number one is 364 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 2: extremely rare. But number two is typically the dad just 365 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 2: kills everybody. 366 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: I've seen that more. 367 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 2: Often when there is when there is a rare family master, 368 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 2: it's usually the dad is a family annihilator for whatever reason. 369 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:57,159 Speaker 2: Number two, you rarely see a mother get rid of 370 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 2: the whole family, very rare. Occasionally you'll see a male 371 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:09,919 Speaker 2: teen do that. But for a male teens, for instance, 372 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 2: the thirteen year old to shoot the whole family a 373 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 2: family massacre, that's extremely rare, isn't. 374 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 10: It, absolutely, Especially when you see the mother being killed 375 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 10: as well. 376 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 9: That's what makes this case even more of an anomaly. 377 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 10: That really signs out because typically children have intense or 378 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 10: children have closer attachments with the maternal figure. You would 379 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 10: expect that in most cases, and typically the mother is 380 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 10: the primary caretaker for children. 381 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 9: So the mothers usually don't see. 382 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:53,400 Speaker 10: That type of violence, especially perpetrated by their children. 383 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 9: That's what also makes this case stand out. 384 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 3: The eldest son of the Humiston family frantically calls emergency 385 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 3: services for help, claiming he's the victim of a botched 386 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:11,919 Speaker 3: murder suicide plot perpetrated by his younger brother. 387 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 2: Okay, there's so many things wrong with this scenario. The 388 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 2: fifteen year old tells nine to one one his little brother, Benjamin, 389 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:25,360 Speaker 2: just thirteen, shot and killed the entire family and then 390 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 2: quote took himself out his words, not mine. But let's 391 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 2: examine the injuries to thirteen year old Benjamin also found dead. 392 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 2: Did he could he have committed suicide? To doctor Kendall, 393 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 2: Crown's chief medical examiner, Terrence County, I want to analyze this. 394 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 2: So Benjamin Hunterston, the little brother, is shot twice. Am 395 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 2: I supposed to believe that he shot himself once in 396 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 2: the left cheek with the bullet traveling through his brain 397 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 2: and the second gun shot behind. 398 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 1: The right ear. Okay, whoa hold on? 399 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:12,680 Speaker 2: One gunshot wound goes through the left cheek with the 400 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 2: bullet showling through the brain, which is an upward angle. 401 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:22,679 Speaker 2: The other shot is behind the right ear, we have not. 402 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 2: It hasn't been revealed the trajectory path of that. Wait 403 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:33,400 Speaker 2: for it, Doctor Tendll Crowns. The glock is found in 404 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 2: Benjamin's left hand. Our investigation reveals that Benjamin is right 405 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 2: hand dominant. There is no blood spatter on his left 406 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:53,199 Speaker 2: hand or on the glock, which tells me the glock 407 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 2: was wiped clean and. 408 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: Then placed in the hand. 409 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 2: But for the purposes of your participation, doctor Kendl Crowns, 410 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 2: how can you shoot yourself too once in the head 411 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 2: and continue shooting until you kill yourself? 412 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 11: Okay, So you can shoot yourself in the head and 413 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 11: then continue to function. It just depends on what part 414 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 11: of your brain was damaged. If you hit in the 415 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 11: center part of your brain, which is called the motor strip, 416 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 11: it will instantly stop you from being able to move 417 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 11: your arms and legs, et cetera. But if you hit 418 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 11: more in the frontal part of your brain, you can 419 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:34,159 Speaker 11: still function. It's just it'll it will be difficult to function. 420 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 11: And I have over the years seen people shoot themselves 421 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 11: more than once and attempts to suicide. It's usually when 422 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,120 Speaker 11: they put the gun too far forward and taken out 423 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,199 Speaker 11: the frontal lobe of the brain. They're still able to 424 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 11: function and move the gun and reposition it and shoot 425 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 11: themselves again. If the kid has the gun in his 426 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 11: left hand, he's right hand dominant, which would be odd, 427 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,440 Speaker 11: but the fact that he shot himself in the right 428 00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 11: side of his head, he would have to do something 429 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,679 Speaker 11: like this or that to pull that off, which is 430 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,919 Speaker 11: highly unusual. So the positioning is odd. The fact that 431 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:07,439 Speaker 11: the gun is. 432 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 1: Can you do that again? Can you do that again? 433 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,120 Speaker 2: Because I don't see how you can hold the gun 434 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,639 Speaker 2: if you're right hand dominant and shape behind your had Okay, 435 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 2: go ahead, So. 436 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 11: In your left hand, if he's shooting himself in the 437 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:23,879 Speaker 11: back of the right side of his head, he'd have 438 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 11: to reach around and do it like that or something 439 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,640 Speaker 11: along those lines, which is really awkward and hard to do. 440 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,199 Speaker 11: And you know, if you're going to shoot yourself, you're 441 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:33,439 Speaker 11: just going to put it to the side of your 442 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 11: head or in your mouth or under your chin. You're 443 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 11: not going to reach around and do something weird. 444 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 1: And that's after you've already shot yourself once. 445 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 11: Correct, So you'd already have the gunshot wound in the 446 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 11: left cheek that's hit his brain. So whatever brain function 447 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 11: is compromised. At that point, he's still going to have 448 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 11: to be maneuvering around and doing some sort of complex 449 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 11: maneuver to get it to the right side of his head, 450 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 11: which would be highly unusual. So if his brain's already 451 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 11: compromised himself on the left cheek, if he's still able 452 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 11: to function, I think he'd put it in his mouth 453 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 11: or put it on the left side of his head, 454 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 11: not right side of back ahead WHI should be hard. 455 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 3: As first responders are dispatched to the quiet neighborhood of 456 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,479 Speaker 3: Lake Alice, a second nine to one one called comes 457 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 3: in and the eleven year old girl, who identifies the 458 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 3: Homiston family shooter as her oldest brother. 459 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 2: Dear Lord in Heaven, what this child has witnessed and 460 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 2: now she no longer has a mother a father also 461 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 2: killed Benjamin Humiston just thirteen, Joshua Humiston just nine, and 462 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 2: seven year old Catherine Humiston all. 463 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 1: Dead, all dead. 464 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 2: Straight out to Harmonia Rodriguez joining us from dailymail dot com. 465 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 2: Tell me what the eleven year old little girl saw, Harmonia. 466 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 6: Yeah, so that's the latest developments in this story, because 467 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 6: we now know from court what the eleven year old 468 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,199 Speaker 6: told police. She said that she woke up early on 469 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:10,120 Speaker 6: Monday with shots ringing out. As we have heard already, 470 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 6: she was shot twice. As she saw who shot her, 471 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 6: told beliefs it was her older brother, who was fifteen, 472 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,120 Speaker 6: she played dead. She told police that she saw her 473 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 6: brother checking on the family members to make sure they 474 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 6: were dead before she made her escape. She also told 475 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,959 Speaker 6: police that it was only the fifteen year old who 476 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 6: had access to the father's weapon. She also said her 477 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,959 Speaker 6: older brother had been in a lot of trouble lately, 478 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 6: particularly when it came to his school work. And that's 479 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 6: what we know right now from the girl who's now 480 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 6: being taken care of by a a relative who lives 481 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:46,119 Speaker 6: in the area. 482 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,360 Speaker 2: You know, I'm just trying to take in what has happened. 483 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 2: A fifteen year old boy now accused of annihilating his 484 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 2: entire family. The eleven years little sister says she laid 485 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 2: there and held her breath after she was shot so 486 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 2: her own brother would think she was dead to save 487 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 2: her own life. She says that her fifteen year old 488 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 2: brother got her dad's block. She heard someone yelling stop 489 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:29,719 Speaker 2: and help. She sees her older brother leaning over the 490 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 2: three dead bodies actually touching their necks and chests to 491 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 2: see if they're still alive. He comes back in her 492 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 2: room and the little girl holds her breath, pretending to 493 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 2: plate dead. As he stands next to her bed where 494 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 2: she is lying bleeding. She hears him leave the room. 495 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 2: She goes out a window in her room to escape 496 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 2: from the second floor and starts running. 497 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: As she turn turns. 498 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 2: Back, she sees the fifteen year old Hemiston talking on 499 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 2: the phone in the homes front entry. Wow Crime Stories 500 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:22,840 Speaker 2: with Nancy Grace to Guy DeAndrea joining us former prosecutor, 501 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 2: veteran trial lawyer, I've heard a lot of trial lawyers, 502 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 2: usually defense lawyers, argue that children are not good witnesses. 503 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 2: And I'm sure they're going to argue this eleven year 504 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 2: old little girl has no credibility because she is a child. 505 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 2: I've argued to many many juries, Guy DeAndrea, that the 506 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 2: exact opposite is true, that children have less cunning, less 507 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 2: ability to lie. Also, no way can a insanity or 508 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 2: mental disturbance defense be mounted here? 509 00:29:58,120 --> 00:29:58,479 Speaker 1: Why? 510 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 2: Because if this it is true, and I have no 511 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 2: reason to disbelieve the eleven year old little girl, the 512 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 2: fifteen year old brother had to wherewithal to check the 513 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 2: pulses of his dead mother and dead father, dead brother, 514 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 2: dead sister. He checked their pulses to make sure they 515 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 2: were dead. He went and checked on the little sister 516 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 2: and saw she wasn't breathing because she was holding her breath. 517 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 2: Then he goes downstairs and makes his fake nine one 518 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 2: one call, claiming his brother did it the thirteen year 519 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 2: old because he was angry. Then wipes the gun clean 520 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 2: and places it in the brother's hand, a last cowardly 521 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 2: act to frame the thirteen year old little brother. No 522 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 2: way is he going to be able to claim he's crazy. 523 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 2: Maybe like a fox. 524 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 7: Yeah, the mental health defense as it relates to insanity, 525 00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 7: You're right, it's a difficult position to take posts given 526 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 7: all the things he did. I would expect, and we 527 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 7: don't know if this is true or not, but I 528 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 7: would expect the mental health defense is going to We'll 529 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 7: have to wait and see, but align itself with physical 530 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 7: or sexual abuse at the hands of the parents. 531 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 5: Now, look, I'm not saying. 532 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 2: That, Dear Lord in Heaven, and Andrea, did you just 533 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 2: say physical or sex abuse by the parents? 534 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: Did you say that. 535 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 7: What I'm saying is, if I expect to see that, 536 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 7: and potentially from the defense attorneys, because what else are 537 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 7: they going to. 538 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: Say, meaning he did so many things. 539 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 7: Post shooting that it would make it very challenging from 540 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 7: a insanity defense, because if you could show that someone 541 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 7: had the wherewithal to cover things up, to create an alibi, 542 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 7: or create a self defense, or create what he created here, 543 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 7: which was it was my younger brother murder suicide, it's 544 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 7: very difficult. 545 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: So they have to have some defense. We don't know 546 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 1: what it's going to be. 547 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 2: But so you're basically saying it doesn't matter if it's 548 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 2: true or not, but they've got to come with a defense. Well, 549 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 2: it's not the first time young boy the same age 550 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,320 Speaker 2: turned family annihilator. I don't know if the name Derek 551 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 2: Rosaw rings a bell because I will never forget it. 552 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 1: Listen, I don't want to look at. 553 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 6: Okay, where else did you stop? 554 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 10: There? 555 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 8: Old and night caught in her neck? 556 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 6: So where is your sister? 557 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 1: She's grip sleeping. 558 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 6: How old is your sister? 559 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,920 Speaker 5: She's only a week old? 560 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 10: Okay? And you did not touch her? 561 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 8: Correct? 562 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 3: No, I did not touch you. 563 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 9: I didn't want to touch my sister. 564 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 10: I need to know if your mom is breathing. 565 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 1: She said, miss I have the gun with me. 566 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 8: I was going to shoot myself, but I didn't want to. 567 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 3: I didn't want to. 568 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: I pulled back to side, but. 569 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 5: I did not see Pumiston is transported to the Samamish 570 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 5: Police station, where he is put in touch with an attorney, 571 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,280 Speaker 5: who then tells detectives that Humiston will not be speaking 572 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 5: with them. The lone survivor of the attack, homiston eleven 573 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 5: year old sister, is transported to Harbor View Medical Center 574 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 5: for treatment for her non life threatening injuries. 575 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 2: A miracle that this eleven year old girl. She is 576 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 2: the sole survivor out of her family. Her mother murdered, 577 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 2: her father murdered, her brother thirteen, Benjamin murdered, her nine 578 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 2: year old brother Joshua murdered, and even her little sister 579 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 2: Catherine murdered. She's left with no one but her fifteen 580 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 2: year old brother, now charged with murder. 581 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: Now. Is it true, Harmonia Rodriguez joining us from dally 582 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: mail Harmonia? 583 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 2: Is it true that lawyers asked for him to be 584 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 2: released and they stated that he is described as quote 585 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 2: polite and loves fishing and camping. 586 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 1: That's what they've got, did they actually say that. 587 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 6: That is what happened last week in Cord. He waved 588 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 6: his ride to appear in Cord, but his lawyers appeared 589 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 6: there for him, and they asked for him to receive bond, 590 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 6: arguing that he has no criminal history and also, as 591 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 6: you said, that he was a nice, polite boy that 592 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 6: enjoyed water sports and had an active life sort of 593 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:20,839 Speaker 6: filled with nature and again no criminal past. However, a 594 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 6: judge did not buy that, did not go for that argument. 595 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,759 Speaker 1: I'm sorry hermione. I just want to make sure that 596 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:32,080 Speaker 1: I'm hearing correctly. Did you say he enjoyed nature? Correct? 597 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 6: That's kind of how they are describing. 598 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 1: Well, we ain't going to see a lot of that 599 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:36,800 Speaker 1: in GV jail. Okay. 600 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:39,720 Speaker 2: The big question right now is will he be treated 601 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 2: as an adult. We all know, all of you legal eagles, 602 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 2: there are seven deadlys, Guy DeAndrea, seven deadly sins, crimes 603 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:54,839 Speaker 2: that will automatically in most cases transfer you out of juvenile. 604 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: Court to adult court. 605 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 2: That does not mean you are in gp general population 606 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 2: with adult males. You are held at juvenile, but you'll 607 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:06,160 Speaker 2: be tried as an adult. And those sevens are I 608 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 2: think murder, rape, child, molestation, armed robbery, arson, sodomy, aggravated assault, 609 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 2: shooting somebody. To the best of my recollection, off the 610 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:25,719 Speaker 2: top of my head, those are called the seven deadlies. 611 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 2: You do that as a juvenile, typically over twelve, you're 612 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 2: going to be tried as an adult. 613 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 1: The defense will have to do. 614 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:36,799 Speaker 2: A backflip to get a judge to remand this back 615 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:37,799 Speaker 2: down to Juvicourt. 616 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:42,399 Speaker 7: Yeah, So Washington, if you are sixteen or seventeen and 617 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,799 Speaker 7: you are alleged to have committed this type of crime 618 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 7: firstgree murder, aggravated first murder, it is a auto what 619 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 7: they call in Washington an auto declination, meaning it's going 620 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 7: to be an. 621 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 1: He's fifteen, correct, He's fifteen. 622 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:55,879 Speaker 11: That's right. 623 00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:00,080 Speaker 7: I'm just sharing how the difference. This is a discretionary decline. 624 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,839 Speaker 7: So now and the prosecutor has done this, they filed 625 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,520 Speaker 7: their motion to say this is not appropriate for juvenile court. 626 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,840 Speaker 7: Now the defense will have to compile a defense to 627 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 7: fight this, and there will be motions and hearings and 628 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:18,759 Speaker 7: disputes regarding whether or not it's appropriate to have this 629 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:23,800 Speaker 7: individual tried as an adult. Given the gravity, I strongly 630 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 7: believe they would have to have It's a hill that 631 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,760 Speaker 7: I would not want to have to climb as a defenseitur. 632 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:32,279 Speaker 2: Doctor Lisa Long earlier introduced forensics psychologist and owner of 633 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:33,799 Speaker 2: Doctor Long and Associates. 634 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:37,319 Speaker 1: Doctor Lisa, this is a hurdle for. 635 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:41,240 Speaker 2: The prosecution, as Guy DeAndrea was alluding to earlier, because 636 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 2: when you see a young boy he's just turned fifteen, 637 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 2: take out his whole family, including his mother and his 638 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 2: little seven year old sister, which I find just anecdotally 639 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 2: almost impossible to believe. But the fact say it happened, 640 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 2: a jury is going to want to believe the fifteen 641 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,319 Speaker 2: year old is mentally ill, because the alternative is to 642 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 2: believe as you heard Barry Hutchinson describe me earlier, and 643 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:13,600 Speaker 2: he's right, a teen boy systematically seeing if he was 644 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:19,719 Speaker 2: successful in murdering his whole family. So the jury will 645 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,919 Speaker 2: probably want to believe he's mentally ill, so they don't have. 646 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 1: To believe the alternative. 647 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 2: But the facts tell me something very different, Doctor Lisa. 648 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,920 Speaker 10: Yeah, I absolutely agree with you, Nancy. I mean, this 649 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:38,840 Speaker 10: is a horrific case, and you know, unfortunately we don't 650 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,680 Speaker 10: have enough information right now. If there was anything posted 651 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:46,239 Speaker 10: on social media or more risk factors, I know, it 652 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 10: was discussed earlier that he doesn't have a criminal history, 653 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,719 Speaker 10: but those are some of the factors that we would 654 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,759 Speaker 10: be looking at if they moved forward and did a 655 00:37:56,040 --> 00:38:01,239 Speaker 10: forensic psychological evaluation on him. You know, they would be 656 00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 10: looking at the attachment, if there was any history of 657 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:09,840 Speaker 10: substance abuse, his academic functioning, his cognitive functioning. There's no 658 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:14,239 Speaker 10: indicators as of yet that there was any impaired cognitive 659 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:21,440 Speaker 10: functioning or any significant family dynamics that would result in 660 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 10: this type of tragedy. You know, that's one of the 661 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 10: main in an area that gets a lot of attention, 662 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:31,680 Speaker 10: and there's a lot of research in the aces. 663 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,600 Speaker 9: We would want to know those scores for him. 664 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 10: So have there been any adverse childhood events for this family, 665 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:43,920 Speaker 10: for this child, and up until now, it doesn't look 666 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:48,520 Speaker 10: as though there has been. It really looks as though 667 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:53,839 Speaker 10: this is an ideal family and a family where this we. 668 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:58,600 Speaker 9: Would think this just couldn't happen. One of those. 669 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 10: A case where there aren't the risk factors, we just 670 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:07,719 Speaker 10: aren't seeing them yet where we were flagged. 671 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:12,280 Speaker 2: We wait as justice unfolds and our prayers, of course 672 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 2: for the eleven year old, a little girl that lived. 673 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,480 Speaker 2: We stop now and remember an American hero. Staff Sergeant 674 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:24,920 Speaker 2: Jesse Cheryl, New Hampshire State Police, killed in the line 675 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:29,240 Speaker 2: of duty. He served New Hampshire State Police nineteen years. 676 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:36,120 Speaker 2: Survived by wife now widow, Nicole, and children Peyton and Quinn. 677 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:42,120 Speaker 2: American hero Sergeant Jesse Cheryl. Thank you to our guests 678 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,560 Speaker 2: for being with us, but especially to you from being 679 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:49,480 Speaker 2: with us. Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend.