1 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:09,120 Speaker 1: What's Epstein my bar virus? Why was that your intro? 2 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: Because Sylvie, As as with all of our podcasts, this 3 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:17,479 Speaker 1: show is sponsored by the Epstein bar virus. But have 4 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: you had mono? No? Well, maybe try it, Maybe try 5 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: motto hell yeah, it's good. It might cause multiple sclerosis 6 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: later in life. There's all sorts of things that you 7 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:31,639 Speaker 1: will know if you had it. If you ever take 8 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 1: the Epstein bar exam. That's a test. You get the 9 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:38,840 Speaker 1: rest of the joke. You can do it for free 10 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: on this podcast if you sign up for a week 11 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: of food. We love the Epstein bar virus. You'd just 12 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: like to make our poor editor bleep things I do 13 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: I do. It's fine. I'm so sorry for him. Chris. Well, 14 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: once upon a time when we still went to the office, 15 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: somebody dinged my car. Maybe I'm not sure, but I've 16 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: decided it was our editor and Chris it was. You 17 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: don't know that, Sophie. You don't know he didn't come in. 18 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: You don't know that he didn't do it unless you 19 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: did it. That. I've seen his dogs. His dogs are honest. 20 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: He would never do that. Well, it was the it 21 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 1: was the on blast, Chris. You know who it was, 22 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 1: and I don't know who it was. It does wrench 23 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: us back onto topic, which is Harlan Carter and the 24 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: birth of the national well not the birth of but 25 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: the rebirth of the like this is it's it's like 26 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: a racist you know how Gandolf is like Gandolf the 27 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: Gray and then he gets reborn as Gandolf the White 28 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 1: after fighting a ball rock. The n r A gets 29 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: rebirthed as a white supremacist organization after fighting the ball 30 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 1: rog of the Black Panthers assembling legally with guns to 31 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: check police power. Yeah, it may have lost the threat 32 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: a little, you shall not. All right, we figured it out. 33 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: We got it, We got ye. There see, people, this 34 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: is how the sausage gets made. So now we're talking 35 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: about the n r A, and particularly we have this 36 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: over the Gun Control Act. This this first big clash 37 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 1: between Harlan Carter's people and the Old Guard Um and 38 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: the Old Guard wins right because they're still broadly speaking, 39 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: in control. But it becomes like they kind of sack 40 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: like in the course of winning. It becomes clear that 41 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: an awful lot of perhaps most r A members are 42 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: actually not on board with the direction they want, are 43 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: really excited about this more fundamentalist attitude towards the Second Amendment. UM. 44 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: And while Harlan Carter was busy building the bones of 45 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: a fundraising and lobbying machine that would dominate conservative and 46 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: really in a lot of ways, American politics for the 47 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: next half century, the Old Guard were wistfully looking back 48 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: to the organization's past as a sporting association and and 49 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 1: figured maybe we could go back to that right um. 50 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: And so they are the conservatives, Harlan Carter is the 51 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: radical right. Um. Politics kind of leaves a bad taste 52 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: in these people's mouths um, because again, they're all aristocrats, 53 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 1: right um. They're all like they're they're kind of like 54 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 1: Joe Biden. They want to have all of their friends, 55 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: right They like on both sides of things. They don't 56 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: want things to get too political because that gets nasty 57 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 1: and it reduces the number of people who can give 58 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,959 Speaker 1: you money. So in nineteen seventy three, the Old Guard 59 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: had purchased land in Colorado and they wanted to turn 60 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: it initially into a shooting range, pretty normal thing for 61 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: the n r A to do, um. But in nineteen 62 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: seventy six they decided to go with a grander plan 63 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: the National Rifle Association Outdoor Center. This was going to 64 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: be a massive compound dedicated to classes on like woodcrafting 65 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: and wilderness you know stuff, and conservation research. They're supposed 66 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: to be the the scientific research done there, and also other 67 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: sporting skills, and of course there would be a shooting 68 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: range there and people would be able to hunt on 69 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: the land, but like guns were not the primary purpose, right, 70 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: was like a whole outdoor recreation center for the n 71 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: r A. And this was in line with they wanted 72 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: to expand the organization because that's obviously there's more money 73 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 1: and whatnot. But they didn't want to like hone it 74 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: on guns, and they wanted to be like, well, we 75 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: could be like the we could be like the the 76 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: American go to organization for like outdoor you know, sporting 77 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,720 Speaker 1: and stuff. Um. So, in order to help them kind 78 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,479 Speaker 1: of make this shift, right because this is at this point, 79 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: but that is different from the n r a's initial vision, 80 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: as is Harlan Carter's vision, right, so they're both trying 81 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: to move it in different directions. Right, It's become clear 82 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: that like this thing the n r A had been 83 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: isn't going to continue, and the old Guard has a 84 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: vision and the new Guard has another one. And so 85 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 1: the old Guard hires a PR firm, the Aorum Group, 86 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 1: to help them drum up funding to make this facility reality, 87 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: because they need tens of millions of dollars to build 88 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 1: this thing. It's a pretty impressive vision um and they 89 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: hope that they they see Carter's built this like massive 90 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: fundraising arm. He's getting all these people organized on behalf 91 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: of his Second Amendment absolutism, and they want this PR 92 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: firm to help them like take back like power from 93 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: from Harland Carter and like people on their side now, like, yeah, 94 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 1: you know, Second Amendment absolutism is fun, but what if 95 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: we built a center? Yeah, what if we had a 96 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:16,840 Speaker 1: rec center for rich people? You can see what this 97 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 1: is kind of like how you've got like those those 98 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: like old political ghouls in the Democratic at Party and 99 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 1: like the parts of the Republican Party that turned in 100 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 1: the Lincoln Project who opposed Trump with like very slick 101 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: political ads that did nothing, whereas Trump just got people 102 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: angry and that works a lot better than like anyway, 103 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: this is a version of that same fight, right, And 104 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 1: part of how you could tell the Oram Group was 105 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 1: not going to succeed in their goals. Is that their founder, 106 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: like the guy they're named after. Their founder is this 107 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: wealthy New York philanthropists who's most prominent clients before the 108 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 1: n r A were Planned parenthood in the Double A CP. 109 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: So this these this guy maybe doesn't get the base 110 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: of the n r A and it's gonna have trouble 111 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: speaking to them, right, Yeah, that's gonna be a problem. 112 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: It might be a problem. Yeah. I mean, it's one 113 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,799 Speaker 1: thing if it's just like, hey, we have two different 114 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: branches of conservatism or whatever. But no, these guys are 115 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 1: going to be politically and morally opposed with each other. 116 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:17,160 Speaker 1: It's not gonna gonna work out. Well, it's not gonna 117 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:19,160 Speaker 1: work out well for them. It may have it may 118 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 1: be such a bad idea that literally anyone could have 119 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:25,559 Speaker 1: called it um. But the n r A big wigs 120 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: they bring this guy on the team UM, and his 121 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,039 Speaker 1: goal in his organization's goals to chart like a safe 122 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 1: new course for the n r A in which they 123 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: kind of keep out of politics. UM. And this is 124 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: in part because like they want to build this new facility, 125 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 1: You're not gonna get thirty million dollars in nineteen seventies, 126 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: money like by by Hewing do a hard political line, right, 127 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 1: So they succeed in roping in a bunch of big 128 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 1: donors from all across you know, major American business interests. 129 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: They get Bill Spencer, who's like the second guy at 130 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: City Bank. They get Ezra taft Binson, who's the highest 131 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: apostle of the Mormon Church. They get a bunch of 132 00:06:57,920 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: oil and gas industry big wigs, all of whom have 133 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: agreed to like start putting money into this project. So 134 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: in order to like celebrate that they've found enough rich 135 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:08,359 Speaker 1: old dudes to fund this thing, the n r A 136 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 1: sets up a big party on their land in Colorado 137 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: for all of these these rich guys. Um, and they 138 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 1: basically host like a multimillionaire summer camp. People are like 139 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: camping in their private jets on the land, Like they 140 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: park their private jets there and like sleep on them, 141 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: and then they hunt and fish in the daytime. Exactly right. 142 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: You see again, Car, this this just makes it really 143 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: easy for Carter to be like, well, these guys don't 144 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: know if you're interested, heart, because they don't write like, Um, 145 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: it's not defending Carter to say that, like these guys 146 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: don't give a shit about the average person who might 147 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: want to join the n r A, because most people 148 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: who join the n r A are not millionaires with 149 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: private jets exactly. They're missing the entire cultural aspect of 150 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: it at this point. Yeah, and and so this is 151 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: not going to work out well for them. Um right, Uh, 152 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: so there's there's some backlash. Um. And Elina Buckley describes 153 00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: kind of the old guards vision of the association's future 154 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: is quote one in which shooting accompanied frontier abundance funded 155 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: by corporations that had long bankrolled conservative causes. One in 156 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: which guns were a reflection of American might, cowboy like 157 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: to be sure, but still with a military like formality, 158 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: rather than a vigilante ethos that saw federal power as 159 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: a threat. So again, the n r A, this is 160 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: the attitude the n RA works with the federal government 161 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: in order to ensure this sporting culture and in order 162 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: to ensure a degree of military readiness, which is basically 163 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: back to their old principles as opposed to, the n 164 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 1: r A is an association that enables individual Americans to 165 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 1: be vigilantees right like, which is more what Carter's pushing Yeah, 166 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: the fun the fun type Carter, the guy who was 167 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: a vigilante, you know. Yeah. So while the old Guard 168 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: are hob nobbing with the great and good Harlan Carter 169 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: is making a strategic alliance with a gun industry journalist, 170 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: guy named Neil Knox. Now, Knox had been educated at 171 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: Christian College in Abilene, Texas. Um, and the fact that 172 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 1: he comes from Abilene is a red flag. Um in general, 173 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:03,959 Speaker 1: don't go to Abilene. Um No, it's almost as bad 174 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 1: as Brady. So Um anyway, sorry, Abel, anything about this 175 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: is this is just Texas. Lare you have to come 176 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: from as I do. You have to shoot on every 177 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: other city in Texas so that people don't notice how 178 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: terrible Dallas is. Um. So I like to throw a 179 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: lot of flak Houston's way in order to or that 180 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: their food is better. Um, it's whatever. So he goes 181 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 1: to Abilene College, and every social find on Neil Knox 182 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: will note that he marries his wife because she was 183 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: the only girl on campus who kept a rifle in 184 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 1: her dorm room. Um, well, hey, you know what, that's love, right, 185 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:43,959 Speaker 1: Like he finds his he finds this person good for him. 186 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: He was interested in safe sex, right, I mean it 187 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 1: is this is like getting into like how different some 188 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: things are in the country. But like at the elementary 189 00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: school where I went to, it was not uncommon for like, um, 190 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,559 Speaker 1: people particularly like teachers to have like guns in their 191 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 1: cars in the parking lot. And at the high school, 192 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: like kids would regularly have their guns in their cars 193 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: in the parking lot during the hunting season and stuff. 194 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: Well it's like they're hunting rifles, right, because they're like 195 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: this is in like Idabelle, Oklahoma, Like it's not uncommon 196 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:17,559 Speaker 1: during the season, like you go straight from there to 197 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: like whatever blind you've got. Um. So again, this is 198 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:25,319 Speaker 1: like different, different time, um. But also Neil Knox is 199 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: a very modern kind of gun guy who is going 200 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: to help make the n r A into like the 201 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: gun culture war organization that it comes. Yea, it sounds 202 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: like the kind of origin story of like the first 203 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: guy horny for guns. That's gonna be normal, Like he's 204 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 1: gonna normalize being horny. He's gonna normally is being gun horny. 205 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: But also with conspiracy baked into it, right, that's one 206 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: of the keys. Right, It's not just like an appreciation 207 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 1: for guns, it's an appreciation for guns within this like 208 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 1: conspiratorial milieu that Nil Knox is like, he's a guy 209 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: on this. Yes, it's a it's a yeah, he's he's 210 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: read the Turner Diary. Ship. Yeah, I mean he he 211 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: would have been the kind of guy to help write them. Um, 212 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: not that he was, because that's a different set of guys, 213 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:09,679 Speaker 1: although they are kind of connected by the Goldwater campaign, 214 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: but that's another story. Um. As the Dallas Morning News, 215 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: rights Knox was, Yeah, I'm just going to quote them 216 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 1: walking through this guy's background. In the mid nineteen sixties, 217 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: knock Knox worked as a reporter and editor with newspapers 218 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 1: in Vernon and Which Atall Falls, before getting a job 219 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: as founding editor of Gun Week, a newspaper covering firearms 220 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: issues of the day. From his base in Arizona. The 221 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,439 Speaker 1: Bearded gun evangelists spent the next forty years railing against 222 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: gun control and pitting himself against n r A leaders 223 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: he saw as too compromising. In the nineteen sixties and seventies, 224 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: the gun industry in the n r A were inclined 225 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 1: towards pragmatism, said Jeff Knox, who's his kid from his 226 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: home in Buckeye Arizona and willing to make concessions. The 227 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: elder Knox believed strongly that the second Amendent was absolute, 228 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: and he especially didn't like the idea of registering guns, 229 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 1: which to him raised the specter of a dictator confiscating 230 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 1: all arms and subduing the citizen rate. Jeff Knox said 231 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: at one point in the mid nineteen nineties, Neil Knox 232 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 1: even suggested the assassinations of Kennedy and King might have 233 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: been staged to build support for gun control. So Knox 234 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: is the start of, specifically the strain of the American 235 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: right in American gun culture that kind of culminates in 236 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: Alex Jones, right, And he's not super big about pushing that, 237 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 1: but he is like the first kind of prominent voice 238 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:21,439 Speaker 1: to start talking about like these these these stings specifically 239 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: for control. That's one of the big things that Neil 240 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 1: Knox introduces into American culture, at least helps to introduce him. 241 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: Not going to claim that he was entirely on his 242 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 1: own there um, but he's like he's like the vanguard 243 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: of that kind of guy who winds up doing the 244 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: Sandy Hook conspiracy ship later on. And it's it's worth 245 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: noting though that, wow, when Knox partners with Harlan Carter. Again, 246 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: this is seventies seventy seven, so he has not yet 247 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: started pushing conspiracies outright. Um, but you can see kind 248 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: of where he goes is where he and Carter helped 249 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: to lead a lot of the gun culture. Um. And yeah, 250 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: So these guys the Old Guard see Carter and Knox 251 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: and see them as like un kind of unhinged. But 252 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: even more than that, they're not primarily objecting necessarily to 253 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 1: their goals as much as the fact that they're so 254 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,559 Speaker 1: extreme that it's going to take away funding. Right, it's 255 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: going to reduce the n ra's ability to attract a 256 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: lot of people to give them money for this. It's 257 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: a republican establishment. During run, they were just like, listen, 258 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: we agree all Mexicans are rapists, but you're not going 259 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: to get the nomination by saying it. And it's like 260 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: I wanna bet yeah, yeah, exactly, Like that's that's kind 261 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: of like they're arguing, like these people are too extreme. 262 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 1: The n r A will like die out if they're 263 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: kind takes over and Harland Carter's like, oh, motherfucker, you 264 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 1: want to see how to make the n r A 265 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: and a lot of money. I will show you some 266 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 1: things he's about to ye. So one Friday in November 267 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:54,319 Speaker 1: of nineteen seventy six, the head of the n r 268 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: A purged eight staff members loyal to Carter. Right, they 269 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: fire everybody with like very little warm because again Carter 270 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 1: spent years getting his Border Patrol guys in there. So 271 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: they try to get rid of all these people. And 272 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:08,439 Speaker 1: what becomes known later is the Weekend massacre and Harlan 273 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 1: it's the only massacre UM. Harlan resigns from his position 274 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: in protest UH and Elena Buckley continues Quote and Gun Week, Handloader, 275 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: and Rifle, all publications Knox had once edited. Writers began 276 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: reporting rumors about a shake up at headquarters. The Orum 277 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: Groups report on the Outdoor Center had been leaked, and 278 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: gun group leaders around the country bristled at its language. 279 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: And this is from the Orum Groups report. In the 280 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: public mind, the n r a is current image is 281 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: based almost totally on its supposed opposition to any form 282 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: of gun control. This public image constitutes a weakness for 283 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: fundraising a new piece of again very bad at being 284 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 1: at their job, by the way, UM, a new piece 285 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: of information had gotten out to via a brochure sent 286 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: in the mail to some members. The executive committee was 287 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: considering moving the headquarters to Colorado Springs, not far from Raton, 288 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: where the n r A could focused more squarely on 289 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: its sports shooting ties. Regional gun groups began receiving concerned 290 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: notes from their members. The Shooters Committee of Political Education SCOPE, 291 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: based in New York, wrote a letter to Rich protesting 292 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: the n r a's reagent board appointees and to let 293 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: them know that they would advise their membership to write 294 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 1: in Neil Knox amongst several others as board candidate at 295 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: the annual meeting in Cincinnati. In the American Rifleman, an 296 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: unsigned editorial appeared, there have been charges that the National 297 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: Rifle Association is being subverted. It read in abandoning its 298 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: fight against gun control. So this uh, and you see 299 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: here they've built in their partnership, Knox and Carter have 300 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: built a very effective both fundraising and propaganda wing. That is, 301 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 1: they're they're building a moral panic over this right um 302 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 1: in a very modern way, in a way that because 303 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: this is like the fucking this is part of like 304 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: the blueprint of everything the right will do in the future. 305 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: So for the next couple of weeks, Knox and Carter 306 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: call every other n r A lifetime member. They can 307 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: in brief, like you when you have an organization like 308 00:15:58,000 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: the n r A, every year you have to have 309 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: a meeting and you have to do like voting at 310 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: that meeting and stuff, and like there's people who are 311 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: the actual like board and stuff, but also the lifetime 312 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: members get to vote, and so the board is in 313 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: control unless you can get like enough of those members 314 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: to vote on measures that would like replace the leadership, right, So, 315 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: and they didn't. They had never worked. No one had 316 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: ever really tried to do this before the fact that 317 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 1: the members get to vote had kind of been like 318 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: like stock options voting, where it's like, yeah, I mean 319 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: the random citizens who control of the company's stock get 320 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: a vote, but like our CEO controls and his best 321 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: friend controls twenty, so it doesn't matter what they say. Right, 322 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: That was the thinking. But obviously the n r A 323 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: isn't like a publicly traded company. You just each each 324 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: of these people has a vote, and if you can 325 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 1: whip them all into shape, you could actually rest control 326 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: of the organization away from the old guard which is 327 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: what Knox and Carters start planning to do. Now, there's 328 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: a lot of politicking that goes on here. You can 329 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: read about it in in detail in Elena Buckley's article. 330 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: One thing I think that's noting is that the whole 331 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,479 Speaker 1: event has something of an early Trumpy vibe. The folks 332 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: Carter lines up to back their plan to take over 333 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: the n r A saw the old Guard is out 334 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: of touch aristocrats, which they were. They framed themselves as 335 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: like Paul Revere types. Right, they're founding fathers, right, They're 336 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: they're fighting a revolution against an unjust like aristocracy. One 337 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: person who were all but they're all doing the couseplay. Now. 338 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 1: It's all begins with the don't tread on me flags 339 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 1: and the three pointed hats and yes um and one 340 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 1: person who was present later recalled some members were angry 341 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 1: enough to bring rope, tar and feathers to Cincinnati. Um. Yeah, 342 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 1: the obsession was it's like, oh, the tea party, a 343 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: tarn feathering. It's just like they just have an obsession 344 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: with this like patriotic forms of like you know, like 345 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 1: old style LARPing. It's just just the same fucking God. 346 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: I mean, this gets into a broader issue that actually 347 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: is is present in different forms everywhere, which is that like, um, 348 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: everyone has their types of violence that are like good 349 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: and traditional and okay, and there are types of violence 350 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:16,119 Speaker 1: that are so black people breaking a bunch of windows 351 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:20,360 Speaker 1: during a riot um or like um, flipping a cop 352 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: car and lighting and on fire. That is not okay. 353 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: That's horrifying. That's that's evil violence. Ring and feathering a 354 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 1: guy trying to like raise taxes, like literally melting a 355 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:34,639 Speaker 1: man's skin off in order to stop him from like 356 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 1: getting the taxes that will pay for a road. That's traditional, right, Yeah, 357 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 1: that's that's it's allowed, you know, it's I mean, burning 358 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: their skin off and then the feathers is just so 359 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: they look like a chicken. Just the most horrifying joke 360 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,199 Speaker 1: that you can possibly think of. Yeah, there was like 361 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: that John Adams HBO series with PAULI. Oh yeah, yeah. 362 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 1: They had like a tar and feathering in it, and 363 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: it was like the first time I was like, oh yeah, 364 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: that's incredibly violent, really really violent actually and feather a person. 365 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:09,479 Speaker 1: I thought it was just like, hey, we're gonna make 366 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: you look like a funny chicken, like a pine in 367 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: the face. I put it on the same level as 368 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 1: a pine of face. But it's, um no, it's not. 369 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: It's pretty bad. No. And it's like, I'm I mean everyone, 370 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: there's a degree to which this is very common across 371 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: the political spectrum because I want you get like whenever 372 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:27,479 Speaker 1: people suggests like, well, the cops should uh confiscate this 373 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: or the cops should like do that, it's like, well, okay, 374 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: what happens when police confiscate things? Like what does that 375 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,360 Speaker 1: look like? Violence wise? You know? Um, And it's it's 376 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: because like I don't know, everyone's got it's it's a 377 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: it's a it's I mean, it's a common political tactic, 378 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: right to frame the violence you want to do or 379 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: you want to have the government do as not violence 380 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:52,199 Speaker 1: because it's being done by the government. It's like, you know, 381 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: when people do a panic about like drug dealers sneaking 382 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: fentanyl into things, their solution to that is have the 383 00:19:58,080 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: d e A raid more people. It's like, well, the 384 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 1: d A kill people too. He I don't know, this 385 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:10,679 Speaker 1: is just what people do. Um anyway, Uh So Knox 386 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 1: uh takes point on the actual day of the convention. 387 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:16,440 Speaker 1: He's the one who's actually whipping votes at the n 388 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 1: r A convention to propose a series of by law changes. 389 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 1: Using the support based Carter had built, he gets them 390 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 1: to vote in a defense of the Second Amendment to 391 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 1: the n r a's mission for the first time, right. Um. 392 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: So he's like, this is the first time they actually 393 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 1: add because the like they have a mission statement or 394 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 1: whatever is an organization. The first thing they do is 395 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 1: they add like Second Amendment, you know, like we are 396 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: an advocating for like the you know, this interpretation of 397 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,199 Speaker 1: the Second Amendment to that. The next thing they do 398 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 1: is they block the sale of the n r A 399 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: headquarters in d c uh and they block the development 400 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: of the outdoor center. So they put it into this plan. Um. 401 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:54,159 Speaker 1: And then UH Carter or uh Knox brings up a 402 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 1: guy named Bob Kokla, who's one of Carter's people who's 403 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: still in the n r A when Carter resigns in protest, 404 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 1: Hukla takes over the lobbying arm and he's apparently, I 405 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,639 Speaker 1: guess the the old guard had thought he was trustworthy. 406 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: But he secretly records one of their managing committee meetings 407 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,159 Speaker 1: and they play this in front of the crowd and 408 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 1: in the tape you can hear the current head of 409 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 1: the n r A and the other members of the 410 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: Old Guard criticizing Kukle for quote going to war every 411 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: time someone mentions gun control. UM. So he veritas again, 412 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,359 Speaker 1: these guys are really building the playbook that's going to 413 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 1: be used everywhere, well outside of guns. So following this, 414 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: Knox and his voters stripped the board and managing Committee 415 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: of power. UM. And basically again this is that. You 416 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:38,719 Speaker 1: can go into a lot more detail about how they 417 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:40,879 Speaker 1: do this all legislatively, but by the end of things, 418 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: the Old Guard are no longer in charge of the 419 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,879 Speaker 1: n r A and Harlan Carter is the new executive 420 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 1: vice president. UM. At three yeah, yeah, they do it. 421 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: They do it fucking street style. UM. And at three 422 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 1: thirty am, Carter takes to the stage to give his 423 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,880 Speaker 1: first speech to his newly conquered in r A. You're 424 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: America's greatest people, my friends. Don't ever forget that you are. 425 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: You have afforded the n r A this wonderful, historically 426 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 1: important reaction of years to the way the association has 427 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 1: been going, to the way you want it to be, 428 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: to the way it ought to be. And if I 429 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:12,879 Speaker 1: have anything to do with it. You are going to 430 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 1: win because you are the n r A buck. So 431 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: he did it. He did it Trump speech. Yeah, yeah, 432 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: I did his, his Trump speech, and he took over 433 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:28,719 Speaker 1: the n r A. And I imagine now people are 434 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: gonna start falling in line. Yeah. Well the n r 435 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: A is gonna make a lot of people fall in line. 436 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,119 Speaker 1: And we're going to talk about what they do. But first, 437 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 1: you know who loves to carry out coups. Who are 438 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: our sponsors who backed a series of coups in Indonesia 439 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,679 Speaker 1: in order to gain access to the island that you 440 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,880 Speaker 1: can go to hunt kids on. Yeah, that's what they're 441 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: known for. And hey, if you're not, if you're not 442 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 1: into guns, understands you can use bows us an addleaddle 443 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: you know, Ninja stars, Ninja stars for sure, there's stop 444 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:11,120 Speaker 1: you Yeah, a bow staff, literally any weapon, the ninja turtles. Yeah. 445 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,199 Speaker 1: The government of Indonesia has no control over this island, 446 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: so it's all on. Oh we're back. So immediately after 447 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,680 Speaker 1: carrying out his coup, Harlan Carter sets to work remaking 448 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,679 Speaker 1: the n r A in his own image. One of 449 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 1: his first hires is a guy you may have heard of, 450 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: Matt Wayne Lapierre. Yeah, there we go, w big Wayne 451 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: Big Lapierre. Pepper pew pew p pew. Yeah. I think 452 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 1: it's not French, but you know, I probably somewhere along 453 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 1: the somewhere along the lines. The point is pep is 454 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,120 Speaker 1: a very good nothing and everyone that was a good joke. 455 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: You should be proud. So by nine six, Lapierre is 456 00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 1: running the n r a's entire lobbying arm. Right, so 457 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:01,880 Speaker 1: we kind takes the job that Carter had had basically, 458 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: um but by the by the eighties, he has turned 459 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,640 Speaker 1: it into because again it was I mean and Carter 460 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: started this process, but it becomes the most the best 461 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,959 Speaker 1: funded and most effective lobbying organization in d C, right 462 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: in the entire country. Um. Again, Card draws kind of 463 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: the blueprints. Lapierre carries them out though, um, there's no 464 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: other sports someday, yeah, you know exists that you know, 465 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: has a lobbying arm that changed into just like a 466 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, it was like this was 467 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: a sportsman lobby that it wasn't even a lobby, and 468 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 1: now it is the most powerful lobby. And again there's 469 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: like critiques about well they're were primarily interested in like 470 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 1: preserving rich people's right to ownership. But they were broadly 471 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 1: speaking saw that like, Okay, when a law affecting guns 472 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 1: is proposed, we'll sit down and we'll let them know. 473 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: This is how we think this will affect our members. 474 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 1: And these are some changes. And again it's like broadly speaking, 475 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,640 Speaker 1: like like what you would kind of want to see 476 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: in a democracy that's supposed to function the way ours 477 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:03,479 Speaker 1: does as opposed to like we are going to become 478 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 1: so key to right wing fundraising that if somebody proposes 479 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,880 Speaker 1: any kind of law at curbing gun crime, we will 480 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: destroy them, right um, which yeah, by any means necessary, 481 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: and to a to an extent that like it doesn't 482 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 1: matter how like reasonable the restriction might be, like getting 483 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 1: outside of stuff like an assault weapons ban, Like if 484 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: you're going to propose like universal background checks, which most 485 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 1: gun owners support, right, We're we're going to come for 486 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 1: your ass, you know, um, unless you're the Black Panthers, 487 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 1: but whatever. Like So, another nineteen seventy seven higher brought 488 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: onto the n r A at the same time as 489 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: Wayne Lapierre is a guy named Robert Doublet. Now Doublet 490 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: becomes the n r a's general counsel and it's his 491 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 1: job to begin wrangling together legal scholars to push hard 492 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,360 Speaker 1: the idea of an individualist interpretation of the Second Amendment. 493 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: So between nineteen seventy, there's only three law review articles 494 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 1: endorsing an individualist interpretation. Right, there are some like state 495 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,400 Speaker 1: level ruvings, you could argue kind of endorse one earlier, 496 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:08,959 Speaker 1: but there's never been like a national like a Supreme 497 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:10,640 Speaker 1: Court ruling on the matter one way or the other. 498 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 1: And it hadn't really people have not even talked about 499 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: it in that way until the sixties. So three our 500 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: law review articles written between nineteen sixty and nineteen seventy 501 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 1: endorsing that interpretation. Between nineteen seventy and nineteen eighty nine, 502 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:23,880 Speaker 1: the period in which Doublet is the n r AS 503 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 1: General Council, there are twenty seven law review articles, three 504 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 1: of which are authored by Doublet himself, and his work 505 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,120 Speaker 1: would start to bear fruit. Again. There's some like lower 506 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: level rulings, but it makes the individualist interpretation of the 507 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 1: Second Amendment makes its way to the Supreme Court for 508 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,119 Speaker 1: the first time in two thousand one. Some people will say, like, 509 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: point to D. C. As Heller, that's not the first 510 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: time it happens. In two thousand one, and the case 511 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: in question has its origins in a nineteen nineties seven 512 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 1: criminal case in which a Texas woman divorced her husband 513 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: and filed for a protective order against him because he 514 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: had threatened to murder the man she cheated on him 515 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: with the next year, while he's got this protective order, 516 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,159 Speaker 1: which he's not supposed to have guns because he has 517 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,920 Speaker 1: the protective order against him, right um, during a meeting 518 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,640 Speaker 1: with his wife and daughter over some financial issue, he 519 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 1: pulls a gun during an argument and points it at them, 520 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,920 Speaker 1: so he gets and again, if you're a rational, good own, 521 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:16,359 Speaker 1: are you a thing like well, this is exactly the 522 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 1: kind of person who shouldn't have access to a fucking gun. 523 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: He gets indicted for possession of a firearm, will subject 524 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: to a court order, and he files for dismissal, arguing 525 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 1: that this had unfairly infringed on his Second Amendment right. 526 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,680 Speaker 1: And the ruling what it actually rules is kind of complicated. 527 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,160 Speaker 1: The ruling is not entirely in favor of this guy Emerson. 528 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 1: It's Emerson versus the United States. But in the ruling, 529 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court rules that the describes the Second Amendment 530 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,400 Speaker 1: as an individual right right, so this is the first 531 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: time that happens at a federal level. UM. And then 532 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 1: this ruling in two thousand is reinforced by two thousands 533 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: dates d C versus Heller, which is like the big 534 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: ruling that is really more explicitly on can you ban 535 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 1: like categories of weapons and whatever it's based on like 536 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,440 Speaker 1: a d C I think handgun band um. And then 537 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,679 Speaker 1: in two thousand ten the second min is finally incorporated 538 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: UM in McDonald v. Chicago. But this is all you know, 539 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: orchestrated by Robert Dowlett, right starting in the seventies. And 540 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 1: one thing you have to say about the man as 541 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,880 Speaker 1: he earned his salary, right, that that's a significant change 542 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,199 Speaker 1: in US Jewish prudence that he kind of painstaking lye 543 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 1: uh is the architect of of pushing um. It's probably 544 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 1: worth worth noting here that he was a murderer. UM. 545 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:30,119 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna quote from the Boston Review here. Robert J. 546 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: Dowlett was convicted of murdering Anna Marie Yoacum, the mother 547 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,160 Speaker 1: of his then girlfriend, in nineteen sixty three. Dowlett also 548 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 1: robbed and shot the owner of a pawn shop, like 549 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: Carter dow Little seventeen years old when he pulled the trigger. 550 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: He confessed to the shootings and served six years in 551 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: prison before his conviction was overturned on a technicality. The 552 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: crimes were not made public until two thousand fourteen. God damn, 553 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 1: no wonder it's like this is it's also he and 554 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: he and Carter in Kyle. Now it's all seventeen. When 555 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: they kill people in like these, I guess I wouldn't 556 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 1: maybe you wouldn't call what DOUBLET does vigilante violence. He's 557 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: really just murdering people. Know that just sounds like straight 558 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 1: up murder. Yeah, he just murders a woman and then 559 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: shoots a pawn shop owner in a robbery. So I 560 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 1: guess you would say he's not a vigilante. He's just 561 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: straight up an armed criminal. That is insane. And this 562 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 1: is the guy who's made it easier for fucking everyone 563 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: in the world. In the United States, he's he's the 564 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 1: n r a's general counselor So at one point I 565 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: assume he went to law school. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 566 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: because again he gets off like like a like Carter does. Right, 567 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: he gets off and then he goes to college, and 568 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, good for them. I guess nice 569 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: to know when we live in the land of opportunity 570 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 1: like that. I believe firmly that people should be able 571 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 1: to get a second chance after making a mistake, especially 572 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: when they're you know, not a legal adult. Certain I 573 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: believe in certain second chances for certain kinds of mistakes. 574 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: I think perhaps if you murder your girl friend's mom 575 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 1: and then shoot a pawn shop owner during a robbery 576 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: an avenue that we ought to close to you is 577 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: representing the National Rifle Associations, Like, maybe that's not okay? Yeah, 578 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's like, listen, that guy explicitly 579 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: does gun crimes, Yeah, for fun. Perhaps should not be 580 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: his job. I want to know what happened with the 581 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 1: with the the relationship, Um did that don't actually suffer 582 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 1: after the murder of the mother? It must have been 583 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: hard while she was his girlfriend, So I don't think 584 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: they wind up staying together. Um yea yeah. It's like 585 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 1: you know, with Harlan Carter. I think a seventeen year 586 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 1: old who, in a crime of racism commits a murder, 587 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: there should be some way for like that person to 588 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: be rehabilitated. But perhaps they should never be allowed to 589 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 1: be a border patrol officer. Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, 590 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 1: there's like little things like not giving them, I don't know, 591 00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: authority over other people or requiring them to you was 592 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: full force as a part of the job. And maybe 593 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 1: the guy who murders his girlfriend's mom shouldn't help to 594 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 1: be an architect of federal gun policy. But I mean, 595 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 1: it's just paps that guy. It sounds rational. But you 596 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: know what, I don't know if that's yeah, I think 597 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: I think it'll work out fine. I'm not even arguing 598 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: against an individualist interpretation of the Second Amendment because again, 599 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 1: I don't really believe that the Constitution is something that 600 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: we should treat as a religious document. But not this guy. 601 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: Not this guy making that a case. If you've got 602 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: to make that case, maybe Ross Doublet shouldn't be the 603 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: man doing it. No. Um, So that's cool. Um. And 604 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 1: the Boston Review article I found is a good job 605 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: of pointing out that the n r a's embrace of 606 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: the specific legal interpretation does not occur in a vacuum. 607 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: While doubtlets are lawyers are making their case right. So 608 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 1: while there and again this is a very it's a pain. 609 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 1: It's forty years it's painstaking process of doing well not 610 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 1: I guess twenty ish, twenty three, something like that. Um. 611 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: But while they're making their case, the n r A 612 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: is carrying out mass mailing campaigns, some of the most 613 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: extensive and political history. And they're publishing magazines that reach 614 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: millions of people. Um. They're paying for ads and all 615 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 1: of these different gun press magazines. They're having paid spokesman 616 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 1: show up and talk radio stations, right. And part of 617 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: like what they're doing, they're obviously they're arguing for this 618 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,719 Speaker 1: interpretation of the Second Amendment, but they're also pushing a 619 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 1: cultural change what some scholars have turned the term to 620 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,959 Speaker 1: the tactical turn in U. S. Gun culture again, even 621 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: to the extent that, like, I mean, one thing that 622 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 1: liberals get wrong is like it is not new for 623 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: civilians to own on a widespread scale, military grade weapons, 624 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 1: among other things. One of the most popular guns in 625 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 1: civilian hands that the n r A before it's political turn, 626 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: sold to people was the M one Guarrant, which was 627 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: the U. S. Service rifle of World War Two. Right, Um, 628 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 1: But what is really new is that it's this is 629 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: this kind of how a military turn for gun owners 630 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 1: because people were not buying in one Garran's primarily to 631 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 1: like play act as soldiers. They were buying them because 632 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 1: the guarante is a perfectly good hunting rifle, right thirty 633 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: out six, which is a very effective hunting round. Um 634 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 1: and those were cheap, right, so it was a good 635 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 1: weapon to buy. So people are not dressing up as 636 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 1: soldiers with their in one Gerrans primarily, right, that kind 637 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: of stuff. The tactical turn in u S. Gun culture 638 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 1: occurs because it occurs alongside the militarization of the police 639 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: and these kind of Hollywood valorization of the militarization of police. Um. 640 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 1: So there's a lot that's going on here, right, and 641 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 1: including like broadly speaking, the kind of like you could 642 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 1: you also should tie in what Holly Hollywood partnership with 643 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 1: the Defense Department, right, and the increasing degree to which 644 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: like military tactical culture becomes like popularized. But the n 645 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 1: r A recognizes, like this is there's a lot of 646 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 1: promise in this number one. You can get more people involved. 647 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: You can you can sell more ship to people, which 648 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 1: means you can have more companies funding the n r 649 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: A who are not selling much as guns, but all 650 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 1: this tactical gear um, I'm gonna read a quote again 651 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: from that Boston Review article, and it's quite long, but 652 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 1: it really ties all of this together. Quote. The story 653 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,760 Speaker 1: of this tactical development in U s gun culture is complex. 654 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 1: I focus in this essay on a few particularly crucial components. 655 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 1: The first is that border enforcement has been increasingly militarized 656 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: since the nineteen seventies and diffused deeper into the interior 657 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 1: of the country. This has blurred the boundary between domestic 658 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 1: and foreign conflict, brought the use of exceptional police powers 659 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 1: into nearly every US town, and turned militarized border security 660 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 1: into a ubiquitous mechanization of radicalization. This is also corresponded 661 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 1: with the militarization of local police forces, which was certainly 662 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,320 Speaker 1: worsened by the War on Terror, but which historian Elizabeth 663 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,320 Speaker 1: Hinton has identified as having deeper roots in the Johnson 664 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 1: administration's War on Crime, which, of course the n r 665 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: A backs. Like the nationalization of border security, it turned 666 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:58,800 Speaker 1: this nation's city streets into sites of militarized racial enforcement. Second, 667 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 1: individuals once areing themselves for self defense, often out of 668 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 1: racial fears or a perceived threat to their masculinity, are 669 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 1: now frequently claiming to do so in defense of the 670 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: Constitution and freedom itself. The n r A has played 671 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: an outsize role in this vigilante reframing by promuligating the 672 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,839 Speaker 1: myth that gun ownership has always been about an individual 673 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,760 Speaker 1: constitutional right and oriented towards a nativist version of self defense. 674 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,800 Speaker 1: This vigilantism operates in conjunction with extra legal violence of 675 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 1: law enforcement officers and is fueled by an individualish notion 676 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 1: of sovereignty. More dangerous than any military grade weaponry. It 677 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 1: rejects the freedom of others is equal to one's own, 678 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,920 Speaker 1: and views any attempt to support such equality as tyranny. 679 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 1: More importantly, this sovereignty is assumed to grant the individual 680 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,880 Speaker 1: the power to take life in defense not of law, 681 00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,719 Speaker 1: but of particular social and racial orders. There are now 682 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: twenty five federal agencies with special tactical units, and may 683 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,360 Speaker 1: of June of alone, sixteen deployed their tactical teams to 684 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter protests, including the Border Patrol, the Bureau 685 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,799 Speaker 1: of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, the Bureau of Prisons, the U. S. 686 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:01,839 Speaker 1: Mar Shoals, the U. S. Coast Guard. In every one 687 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,799 Speaker 1: of the FBI's fifty six field offices, and at the 688 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,919 Speaker 1: local law enforcement level, special weapons and tactics SWAT units 689 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: are now a staple of daily policing. Their very ordinariness 690 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 1: is to a testament to how dramatically local policing has 691 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,799 Speaker 1: changed since nineteen sixty nine, when a SWAT unit was 692 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:20,200 Speaker 1: first used to raise the Black Panther headquarters in Los Angeles, 693 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 1: pioneering what was at the time and almost unprecedented domestic 694 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:27,720 Speaker 1: use of military force. In Carter's victory speech, he declared, 695 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,440 Speaker 1: beginning in this place, in this hour, this period in 696 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,879 Speaker 1: n r A history is finished. The post nineteen seventy seven, 697 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 1: n r A was decidedly partisan, took an absolute position 698 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,239 Speaker 1: against gun regulation, and redoubled its efforts to cultivate a 699 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:45,479 Speaker 1: social identity and authoritarian political ideology among its members. God 700 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 1: damn yeah like that. Yeah, Yeah, all of that in 701 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:56,279 Speaker 1: a row and concisely done. Yeah, fucked up. Yeah, and 702 00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:01,799 Speaker 1: it's again. I I am I there. Some of our 703 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,720 Speaker 1: listenership will agree and some will disagree. I'm a believer 704 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,759 Speaker 1: fundamentally that UM. I don't like the idea of the 705 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,120 Speaker 1: state having a monopoly on violence, and I certainly don't 706 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:12,879 Speaker 1: like the idea of the police being able to own 707 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 1: things that I cannot own. Um but and and that 708 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 1: there's there's an argument to be made, if you're again 709 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:22,920 Speaker 1: care about being an originalist, that that is close to 710 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,840 Speaker 1: the original interpretation of the Second Amendment? Right, Um, what 711 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: part of what by? And they're claiming to be originalist, 712 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 1: they're claiming to be that the that the initial original 713 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,600 Speaker 1: interpretation was individualist. But what they're doing that for is 714 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 1: not any idea of community self defense or a fear 715 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,479 Speaker 1: that the federal government will accumulate too much power, although 716 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 1: it's often framed that way. Fundamentally it is about allowing 717 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 1: regular white citizens to emulate the military and the police 718 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 1: and to act as vigilantes in their stead. Right. That 719 00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 1: is where the n r A turns, and that is 720 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,160 Speaker 1: that is the tactical turn. Right. It's not that there's 721 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,880 Speaker 1: nothing evil about owning body armor, which people can do 722 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 1: for defense perfectly reasonable defensive purposes. There's nothing like um 723 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:17,280 Speaker 1: but but what what they're what they're doing is pushing 724 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,640 Speaker 1: this idea of like not just the millet, not just 725 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,239 Speaker 1: that like society ought to be militarized, which you get 726 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 1: in every kind of argument that like what we need 727 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 1: to do is harden the schools. We need to add 728 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:30,480 Speaker 1: more cops. Um. But it's this idea that the individual 729 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:35,799 Speaker 1: white person should militarize themselves in order to in order 730 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:41,319 Speaker 1: to protect this kind of racial hierarchy. Right. And this 731 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 1: is and this is the thing, this is what I 732 00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,320 Speaker 1: wish folks who are supportive of of more gun control 733 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 1: would more often do is tie in all of this 734 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,840 Speaker 1: to what has happened to the police, because they cannot 735 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,520 Speaker 1: be extricated, right. And that that's I think Vivaldi made 736 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,200 Speaker 1: that perfectly clear that like, these are two sides of 737 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:05,440 Speaker 1: the problem, um and and the n r A is 738 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,440 Speaker 1: a huge part of how we get there. Both how 739 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 1: we get these cops that look indistinguishable from like marines 740 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,400 Speaker 1: in downtown VALLUSA. Not that I think the Marines necessarily 741 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:17,400 Speaker 1: should have been in downtown valluja um, but you you 742 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 1: you have these guys. It's this There's this thing called 743 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:25,279 Speaker 1: the weapons effect, right, which is a psychological phenomenon that's 744 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,000 Speaker 1: noted that like the presence of weapons in an area, 745 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:33,520 Speaker 1: visible weapons can increase the willingness of people to use violence. Right. 746 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:37,839 Speaker 1: There's like something about that that heightens it and that's 747 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,319 Speaker 1: happening here. And part of why that happens is just 748 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:44,239 Speaker 1: the fact that America has so many goddamn guns, right, Um. 749 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,440 Speaker 1: But another part of that is the fact that everywhere 750 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:49,920 Speaker 1: you go you see fucking cops in a way that like, 751 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,279 Speaker 1: you don't see cops dressed as armed as heavily as 752 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,680 Speaker 1: our cops and fucking war zones a lot of the times. Right. 753 00:39:54,960 --> 00:40:02,240 Speaker 1: But it's, um, it's anyway whatever, that's that's what Irlyn 754 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:06,320 Speaker 1: Carter builds. You know. Yeah, no, I I hear exactly 755 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:10,200 Speaker 1: what you're saying, and I I I agree to an 756 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:14,680 Speaker 1: extent with with what you mean. I feel like in general, 757 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 1: problem with liberals is that, um, they tend to kind 758 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:23,960 Speaker 1: of like put guns in the same um category, Like 759 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,680 Speaker 1: they moralize guns the way they moralize like the right 760 00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:31,319 Speaker 1: will moralize drugs, um, and kind of this idea that like, 761 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:35,960 Speaker 1: you know, uh, if we were to just make all 762 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,600 Speaker 1: the guns illegal, then you know, this would solve the 763 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,000 Speaker 1: problem and whatnot. And that's not to say that it 764 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,120 Speaker 1: there isn't it wouldn't be helped if you had some 765 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:48,880 Speaker 1: serious regulation. But this like moralization of it like misses 766 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:53,520 Speaker 1: the entire point of why exactly the uh, why the 767 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 1: people who want guns and have those guns have them? 768 00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,480 Speaker 1: You know, it's like you're the people you're speaking to, 769 00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:02,920 Speaker 1: are not it's people speaking to the choir. Liberals often 770 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,400 Speaker 1: just speak to themselves and go like, isn't it crazy 771 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,160 Speaker 1: that you know, all these people have so many guns? 772 00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,440 Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, well, while you're talking amongst yourselves, 773 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:17,719 Speaker 1: all these guys have created an entire and it's like 774 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,000 Speaker 1: looking at these right wing like militias that people are 775 00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:23,280 Speaker 1: rightly like concerned to see militia's marching around US streets 776 00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:26,920 Speaker 1: like threatening people, and but also failing to see the 777 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:28,920 Speaker 1: thing that is like, well, every one of those guys 778 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:31,680 Speaker 1: has friends who are cops, and like a significant percentage 779 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:33,520 Speaker 1: of them are cops, which is why a whole bunch 780 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,279 Speaker 1: of cops were president January six And that's a huge 781 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,320 Speaker 1: chunk of it. And like, you can't you can't divorce 782 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,280 Speaker 1: your desire to reduce the number of guns in American 783 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,120 Speaker 1: culture from the need to reduce the militarization of the police, 784 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:49,120 Speaker 1: because they were both inextricably tied to the problem um 785 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,879 Speaker 1: which is the constant gun violence in this country has 786 00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:54,960 Speaker 1: has has two points that need to be really like 787 00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:58,480 Speaker 1: hit on, It's not It's not just civilian gun ownership. 788 00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,440 Speaker 1: It's also the way in which the state uses in 789 00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,279 Speaker 1: legitimates armed force, going back to even the earliest days, 790 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,960 Speaker 1: where it's like, yeah, in Texas, your right to carry 791 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:08,759 Speaker 1: guns was heavily restricted, but if you were a white 792 00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,479 Speaker 1: vigilante who carried guns to do racist violence, you would 793 00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,239 Speaker 1: often get off right and though you've broken the law 794 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:19,239 Speaker 1: right like Harlon Carter. You know. Um, Anyway, under Harlan Carter, 795 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,440 Speaker 1: the n r a's membership triples from one million to 796 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,120 Speaker 1: more than three million UM. It would reach five million 797 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:26,560 Speaker 1: members under Wayne Lapierre. Obviously, the n r A. We're 798 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:27,879 Speaker 1: not going to get into this a lot, but it's 799 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,520 Speaker 1: like well past its prime at this point, for a 800 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:34,440 Speaker 1: variety of reasons of primarily rampant corruption. Um. There's a 801 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,200 Speaker 1: pretty good podcast about like what the funk happened there? 802 00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's yourself an a Sopranos podcast. I'm sorry. 803 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,080 Speaker 1: Um So, the n r A tops out at about 804 00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:48,240 Speaker 1: five million members UM, but as of seventeen, about fourteen 805 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:51,360 Speaker 1: million Americans claimed some sort of affinity for the organization, 806 00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,640 Speaker 1: and ever get who did the poll? But whatever, Um, 807 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:56,879 Speaker 1: And one of the things that's interesting here is that like, 808 00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,520 Speaker 1: that's like a lot of people to get around anything, 809 00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:01,160 Speaker 1: but that's also not a lot of people, is a 810 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,120 Speaker 1: voting block compared to the entirety of the United States 811 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,480 Speaker 1: right And so looking at that, you have to kind 812 00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:09,640 Speaker 1: of marvel at the success of the ARRA in making 813 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:13,880 Speaker 1: their ideas a cornerstone of right wing politics, because that 814 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,680 Speaker 1: seems like a low number. It's right because again, if 815 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,400 Speaker 1: you look at actually polling of Republicans on gun control issues, 816 00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,960 Speaker 1: they are a lot less hardliners on guns than you 817 00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,680 Speaker 1: would guess by how the party acts. And it's because 818 00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:30,560 Speaker 1: the party's ability to fund elections for decades was heavily 819 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:32,400 Speaker 1: based on who could get the n r a's approval 820 00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:36,960 Speaker 1: right that A plus rating exactly. In two thousands sixteen, 821 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:40,480 Speaker 1: they spent more than thirty million dollars on Donald Trump's campaign. Um. 822 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:42,920 Speaker 1: And this again people often miss this, like, my parents 823 00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,400 Speaker 1: are were hardcore right wingers, right, So it was my 824 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:49,040 Speaker 1: whole family. I had like two relatives who owned guns, 825 00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,440 Speaker 1: like my grandpa and one of my uncle's right. Um, 826 00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:52,880 Speaker 1: and I did go shooting as a kid, but my 827 00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:55,160 Speaker 1: parents didn't have any My aunt and uncle didn't have any. 828 00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:57,360 Speaker 1: They were not guns in the house of my family 829 00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:02,120 Speaker 1: in Texas. You know. Um, because like it's actually not 830 00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,480 Speaker 1: as integral to conservatism as a as a at least 831 00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:07,560 Speaker 1: I mean this is again changed because the culture wars 832 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:11,359 Speaker 1: have accelerated, so like this is that there's less conservatives 833 00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:13,080 Speaker 1: like the ones I grew up with when they're in 834 00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:15,480 Speaker 1: there were today. But the n r A. It wasn't 835 00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:17,719 Speaker 1: that everyone on the right was in lockstep. It's that 836 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,200 Speaker 1: the elected leaders were scared to cross them because that's 837 00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:23,120 Speaker 1: where the fucking money came from. Um. That's why they 838 00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:26,359 Speaker 1: were able to read wield power so effectively. Um. One 839 00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,440 Speaker 1: of the most peculiar but also influential aspects of Harland's 840 00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,920 Speaker 1: time and power was his repeated and intense defense of cheap, 841 00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:35,960 Speaker 1: shitty handguns. And this gets us to the Saturday Night 842 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:41,560 Speaker 1: Special Saturday Night specially in brief, Like, there's a type 843 00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:46,200 Speaker 1: of handgun that was very cheap in the seventies up 844 00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:47,960 Speaker 1: there in the eighties and stuff called a Saturday it 845 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,680 Speaker 1: was nicknamed the Saturday Night Special. It's like a five 846 00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:54,240 Speaker 1: or a six shot usually thirty eight caliber handgun. Um, 847 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:56,920 Speaker 1: these are still guns like this are still used in 848 00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:59,920 Speaker 1: violent crime way more often than like the guns that 849 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,440 Speaker 1: are politicized, like cheap handguns in general are the primary 850 00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:07,880 Speaker 1: guns that are used in violent gun crime. Um. All THEO, 851 00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:10,680 Speaker 1: what what is a cheap shitty handgun? Is different now 852 00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,719 Speaker 1: because actually six shot revolvers are kind of pricey these days. 853 00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:17,520 Speaker 1: It's supposed to like um high point or something. Um. 854 00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,319 Speaker 1: But yeah, so this is a cheap shitty handgun. Um. 855 00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,400 Speaker 1: And these are particularly low quality handguns. They were not 856 00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:26,839 Speaker 1: like well made as a general rule. Um, they didn't 857 00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:29,719 Speaker 1: always work. They did not always. We are yet that's 858 00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:34,760 Speaker 1: that we're building to that. You have this massive crime 859 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:38,680 Speaker 1: rate and starts in the seventies and really like peaks 860 00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,799 Speaker 1: in the early nineties. And again a lot of Joe 861 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:44,919 Speaker 1: Biden's career is based off of this like violent crime 862 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:47,319 Speaker 1: panic that starts in this period. And one of the 863 00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:52,000 Speaker 1: first like legislative like soon amies that forms around the 864 00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,080 Speaker 1: crime surge is around this fear of the Saturday Night Special. 865 00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:59,680 Speaker 1: And one of the reasons why people are so scared 866 00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,040 Speaker 1: of the Saturday Night Special is that it is a 867 00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,319 Speaker 1: gun that black people can afford. Right, It is a 868 00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:09,480 Speaker 1: cheap handgun, and so it is affordable for those folks. Um. 869 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:14,600 Speaker 1: Harlan Carter opposed new legislation to ban this Saturday night special. Um. 870 00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:16,319 Speaker 1: Although he didn't do it on the grounds that poor 871 00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:20,239 Speaker 1: people deserved firearms, but fascinatingly on the grounds that they 872 00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:23,239 Speaker 1: were shitty and broke easily. Um. And this is one 873 00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:25,799 Speaker 1: of the most incredible arguments I've ever heard from the 874 00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:27,960 Speaker 1: from n r A on the record dot org quote. 875 00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:31,160 Speaker 1: Speaking in opposition to opposition to legislation that aimed to 876 00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:34,760 Speaker 1: ban Saturday Night specials and other inexpensively produced handguns, Carter 877 00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:36,920 Speaker 1: stated in the nineteen seventy two speech before the inn 878 00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:40,040 Speaker 1: As Executive Committee, I can produce actual cases that the 879 00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:42,760 Speaker 1: cheap handgun that snaps in a police officer's face instead 880 00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,160 Speaker 1: of firing has saved many, many lives. And the question arises, 881 00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:48,480 Speaker 1: what are we trying to do upgrade the quality of 882 00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:52,359 Speaker 1: handguns in the hands of our criminals. God, that's an 883 00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:55,920 Speaker 1: amazing logical argument. Yeah. I mean, it's like he has 884 00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:59,120 Speaker 1: a point, a really fucked up evil point. And it's 885 00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:03,080 Speaker 1: also he's getting straight too. I mean the crux of 886 00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:05,960 Speaker 1: it here, which is like he's lucky to be in 887 00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:08,680 Speaker 1: a situation in which he can claim like, oh, actually, 888 00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:11,600 Speaker 1: I don't want to ban this because this makes me 889 00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:14,400 Speaker 1: feel safer to know that they have, you know, the 890 00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:20,919 Speaker 1: poor their their quality of handguns is uh, there's a lot. 891 00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,319 Speaker 1: There's a lot that's messy on this whole this whole thing, 892 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,680 Speaker 1: but it is very funny and it's going to wind 893 00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:29,600 Speaker 1: up getting a lot of people killed, not in necessary 894 00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:31,319 Speaker 1: not not just from violence. A lot of people are 895 00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:35,480 Speaker 1: going to die um because of Carter's defensive terrible handguns 896 00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:36,920 Speaker 1: and where it leads. But before we get it in, 897 00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,719 Speaker 1: you know who else loves shitty handguns that break in 898 00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:51,120 Speaker 1: their owner's hands and they I'm sorry, so absolutely loves it. 899 00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:54,080 Speaker 1: The motto is, we want you to be armed, and 900 00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:55,840 Speaker 1: we want you to never know if that gun is 901 00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:59,920 Speaker 1: gonna fire or not completely inexplicable. We we want to 902 00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:04,480 Speaker 1: weapon that you cannot trust under any circumstances. That's guarantee. 903 00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:09,400 Speaker 1: Remove drop safeties from handguns, Let them free. You know, 904 00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,640 Speaker 1: I enjoy this because I am watching Sophie just shaking 905 00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:19,399 Speaker 1: her every time you do this bit. She hates it 906 00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,279 Speaker 1: makes you so angry, you know, I hate it. Why 907 00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:24,640 Speaker 1: is that, Sophie? Because there's like, if you read it 908 00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:28,719 Speaker 1: of people being like, wait, what is this. I've never 909 00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:32,160 Speaker 1: read about who who has a child hunting? And I 910 00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:39,040 Speaker 1: just it just feels like most of my heart, I 911 00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:42,640 Speaker 1: like fucking with him. Yeah. I feel the same way 912 00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:44,560 Speaker 1: towards him that I do with my cat when I like, 913 00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:46,640 Speaker 1: I like pick it up and I toss it in 914 00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:49,680 Speaker 1: the air and it hates it. But it can't. You can't. 915 00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:52,319 Speaker 1: It has to let me like squeeze it and wrap 916 00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:55,399 Speaker 1: it in a blanket. It's called rent. It's called paying rent. Yeah, 917 00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:58,279 Speaker 1: that's right, motherfucker. Yeah, you gotta be adorable for me. 918 00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:03,040 Speaker 1: Sometimes your fear makes me smile. I feel the same 919 00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:05,640 Speaker 1: way about our piggies, you know. Everyone, it's like you 920 00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:08,320 Speaker 1: feed the slot to the piggies and you let them wink. 921 00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:12,239 Speaker 1: But it's you're you're the farmer. Remember that, right, you're 922 00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:16,720 Speaker 1: the farmer. Well, I'm the farmer. You are, yes, exactly. Remember, 923 00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:18,640 Speaker 1: don't do that to the goats. I don't think it'll 924 00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:20,920 Speaker 1: work out. Work out. Well, it's really fun to fun 925 00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:23,600 Speaker 1: with the goats if you pick them up, like they 926 00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:25,279 Speaker 1: don't know what to do with their little legs and 927 00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:26,719 Speaker 1: they just like kick in the air, and then you 928 00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:32,320 Speaker 1: can hug them. I love it. They go wow, except 929 00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:35,279 Speaker 1: for my boy Goat. He's the ram. He loves it. 930 00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:37,480 Speaker 1: He fucking as soon as he sees you, he'll run 931 00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,200 Speaker 1: up because he wants to get cuddled. Damn his sister 932 00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:53,840 Speaker 1: hates it. But yeah, anyway, of course we're back. Before 933 00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:57,240 Speaker 1: we get onto the consequences of Harland Carter's embrace of terrible, 934 00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:01,320 Speaker 1: unsafe firearms, let's talk about the defense of the virtues 935 00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:05,440 Speaker 1: of arming small children with derringers. Now, Matt, you're not 936 00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:09,279 Speaker 1: a gun guy. The derringer is a tiny, ultraconcealable one 937 00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:12,920 Speaker 1: or two shot pistol. They were originally made for riverboat gamblers, 938 00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,880 Speaker 1: as documented in the documentary Maverick. Okay, and I know 939 00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:20,520 Speaker 1: exactly what's right. Yeah, they're like little, little bitty like yeah, 940 00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,760 Speaker 1: hot girl guns. This is the way I think. Here's 941 00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:28,000 Speaker 1: something he said to Congress. There was a little boy 942 00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:29,799 Speaker 1: and it was real cold, and he had his hands 943 00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:32,040 Speaker 1: in his overcoat. He had one of these little old ringers, 944 00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:34,880 Speaker 1: and four bushy guys ambled up in an arrogant manner. 945 00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:37,000 Speaker 1: He stopped them, and three of them were very nice 946 00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:38,960 Speaker 1: and decent, and one of them said, what would you 947 00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:40,440 Speaker 1: do if I told you I had a pistol and 948 00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:42,440 Speaker 1: I was going to kill you, and he says, I 949 00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:44,879 Speaker 1: would kill you, you son of a bunch. These little 950 00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:47,200 Speaker 1: guns have a very noble and perfect important purpose that 951 00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:49,759 Speaker 1: we should make our position clear. God. That is the 952 00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:54,120 Speaker 1: first recorded incident of like someone being like, my five 953 00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:57,640 Speaker 1: year old just said, Daddy, why does Trump do the 954 00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:00,640 Speaker 1: bad thing? And I couldn't explain. It's like a totally 955 00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:04,120 Speaker 1: fake story that did not There's absolutely no way this happened. 956 00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:06,680 Speaker 1: But also that makes it like, what does it mean 957 00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:10,840 Speaker 1: by their bushy? What does that mean? He has to 958 00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:13,520 Speaker 1: be being racist here? Oh yeah, for sure, but I 959 00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:18,879 Speaker 1: don't know how which race, like the Hasidic Jews? Yeah, 960 00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:22,239 Speaker 1: what does this mean? What does bushy mean? It could 961 00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:25,439 Speaker 1: be Italians? It would be funny if like the real 962 00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:29,200 Speaker 1: story is that that the Jeb and George Bush who 963 00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:31,840 Speaker 1: were like it was it was all of the Bush 964 00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:35,520 Speaker 1: brothers like trying to mug children. Yeah, you know Bushy 965 00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:39,879 Speaker 1: like the former head of the CIA. Yeah, I think 966 00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:41,560 Speaker 1: he was current, probably would have been a current when 967 00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:46,920 Speaker 1: this was Yeah, so obviously that's probably a lie. Um, 968 00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:50,680 Speaker 1: but it's very Again, Harlan Carter, is he is the 969 00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:55,320 Speaker 1: kind of guy who is not just like I think, uh, 970 00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:58,319 Speaker 1: children should be able to engage in shooting sports, but 971 00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,279 Speaker 1: like I think children should be routine carrying handguns on 972 00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:06,840 Speaker 1: their person. Yeah, because yeah, exactly, that is out of 973 00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:12,600 Speaker 1: its damn mind. Just oh, man, a bushy man could 974 00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:14,840 Speaker 1: strike at any point. Yeah, you never know when a 975 00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:17,480 Speaker 1: bushy dude's gonna come in. You gotta be you have 976 00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:20,560 Speaker 1: to always have a derringer in your five year old pocket. 977 00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:23,839 Speaker 1: It's the seventies. Maybe it is talking about like a Toms, 978 00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:26,680 Speaker 1: like a like a lot of chest hair type. You know. 979 00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:30,840 Speaker 1: It's like disco shows up. Yeah, a bunchet disco guys 980 00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:35,640 Speaker 1: come out and start threatening children. Um So, anyway back 981 00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:38,719 Speaker 1: to the point. Under Harlan and his successors, the n 982 00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:41,279 Speaker 1: r A acted repeatedly to defend the rights of gun 983 00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:45,880 Speaker 1: manufacturers to build dangerously shoddy firearms Like this is we 984 00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:48,120 Speaker 1: talk a lot about, rightly, so the things they do, 985 00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:51,560 Speaker 1: like legislatively to defend the gun industry, But this is 986 00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:54,200 Speaker 1: often left out because one of the things is its 987 00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,600 Speaker 1: primary victim is gun owners. Right. Um, I'm gonna quote 988 00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:00,640 Speaker 1: here from a rite up in Bloomberg and Night seventy two, 989 00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:03,960 Speaker 1: Congress created the Consumer Product Safety Commission. Four years earlier, 990 00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:06,719 Speaker 1: Lyndon B. Johnson had signed the omnibus Crime Control and 991 00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:10,160 Speaker 1: Safe Streets Act, which regulated several aspects of firearms sales, 992 00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:12,600 Speaker 1: and advocates of gun control hope to give this agency 993 00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:17,920 Speaker 1: oversight of defective weapons. Representative John Dingle, a Sorry, a 994 00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:20,160 Speaker 1: Democrat from Michigan and a hunter with an A plus 995 00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:22,840 Speaker 1: rating from the ascendant in r A, blocked them in 996 00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:25,160 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy five. He did it again when a colleague 997 00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:27,279 Speaker 1: introduced a bill making a second run at giving the 998 00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:31,200 Speaker 1: CPSC firearms authority. We put in there and express prohibition 999 00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:33,400 Speaker 1: against their getting them getting their nose into the business 1000 00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:36,040 Speaker 1: of regulating firearms and ammunition. Dingle said in debate in 1001 00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:39,440 Speaker 1: Congress that second bill was crushed three to eighty and 1002 00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:43,040 Speaker 1: the issue has never been seriously considered again. And it's 1003 00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:47,560 Speaker 1: one of those like this is again perfectly even if 1004 00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:52,239 Speaker 1: you're like a gun fundamentalist, you should want there to 1005 00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:56,319 Speaker 1: be oversight of guns that don't work or explode, and 1006 00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:59,640 Speaker 1: like ammunition that doesn't work, like right right. That seems 1007 00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:02,160 Speaker 1: to make that there shouldn't be a political issue. It's 1008 00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:07,160 Speaker 1: into that and the only explanation for you not being 1009 00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:11,600 Speaker 1: into it is like, oh good, they can't get the 1010 00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:16,320 Speaker 1: good guns. I mean, like, like poor poor people, black 1011 00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:20,319 Speaker 1: people getting the defective guns seems to be the only 1012 00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:23,600 Speaker 1: excuse here. I mean, well, I mean they're specific excuses 1013 00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:27,200 Speaker 1: that like this will this will enable potentially the government 1014 00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:29,560 Speaker 1: to like regulate what kind of AMMO is illegal and 1015 00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:33,719 Speaker 1: banned types of like whatever, which they do. Anyway, there's 1016 00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:36,640 Speaker 1: that ship happens and like whatever, it's dumb. It's dumb 1017 00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:40,680 Speaker 1: that this happens this way. Um it is worth noting that, Yeah, 1018 00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:42,640 Speaker 1: it's it's like a blue dog Democrat who is the 1019 00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:46,000 Speaker 1: one who like blocks this ship. Um. So the end 1020 00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:49,920 Speaker 1: result is that when gun manufacturers produce firearms that, for example, 1021 00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:52,840 Speaker 1: fire for no reason and kill their owners, it is 1022 00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:55,920 Speaker 1: impossible for the government to order them to recall those weapons. 1023 00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:59,040 Speaker 1: Not even the b A t f E, which supposedly 1024 00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:02,720 Speaker 1: regulates fire arms, can force a gunmaker to take broken 1025 00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:05,160 Speaker 1: guns off the market. And I'm gonna quote again from 1026 00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:09,800 Speaker 1: that Bloomberg article, and this is actually how the article opens. 1027 00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:12,359 Speaker 1: Thomas Bud Brown makes his way out the back door 1028 00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:14,440 Speaker 1: and stops a few steps to the right, raising a 1029 00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:17,239 Speaker 1: trembling arm pointing at something. It's where he found his 1030 00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:19,399 Speaker 1: boy slumped against the cold back wall of the house 1031 00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:23,200 Speaker 1: around seven fifteen am on the last day of bleeding out. 1032 00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:25,640 Speaker 1: Brown is telling the story now about how he was 1033 00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:27,359 Speaker 1: sitting in his chair in the living room when he 1034 00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:29,680 Speaker 1: heard the shot. His son, Jared twenty eight, had just 1035 00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:33,760 Speaker 1: picked up Bud's Taurus pti millennium pro pistol and headed 1036 00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:35,840 Speaker 1: out to do some shooting near their house in Griffin, 1037 00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:39,160 Speaker 1: Georgia with his best friend Tyler Haney. Bud figure Jared 1038 00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:40,840 Speaker 1: had fired at something for the fun of it, like 1039 00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:43,239 Speaker 1: he did sometimes. I was thinking I'd better go out 1040 00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:45,040 Speaker 1: there and tell him to be careful or something, Bud 1041 00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:48,000 Speaker 1: fifty four says, his voice trailing off. But what he'd 1042 00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:50,800 Speaker 1: heard was the pistol going off without anyone pulling the trigger, 1043 00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:54,160 Speaker 1: sending a forty five caliber slug through Jared's femoral artery. 1044 00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:58,040 Speaker 1: Oh shit, my leg, my leg, Jared yelled loud enough 1045 00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:00,719 Speaker 1: for his father to hear. Haney twenty six rushed to 1046 00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:03,359 Speaker 1: the house in a panic, pleading for help. When Bud 1047 00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:05,319 Speaker 1: got out there, the pistol was still in its holster, 1048 00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:11,279 Speaker 1: tucked into Jared's waistband. So and he can't se he 1049 00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:14,239 Speaker 1: can't do nothing, absolutely nothing, but is one of we 1050 00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:16,719 Speaker 1: have no idea how many Americans died due to defective 1051 00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:20,360 Speaker 1: tourist guns. The company did eventually issue a recall on 1052 00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:23,759 Speaker 1: something like a million weapons that were potentially defective, but 1053 00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:26,520 Speaker 1: they didn't have to run ads anywhere to inform people 1054 00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:28,719 Speaker 1: of the recall. They were not required to reach out 1055 00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:30,560 Speaker 1: to their customers, to reach out to gun stores, to 1056 00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:33,239 Speaker 1: take any action at all to warn people that they'd 1057 00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:37,640 Speaker 1: sold guns that could fire for no reason. Unknown number 1058 00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:40,000 Speaker 1: of those weapons are still in people's gun saves, closets 1059 00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:45,000 Speaker 1: and holsters today. That's um fucking crazy, just like I 1060 00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:49,520 Speaker 1: don't even know that justificate it's just guns don't kill people. Yeah, 1061 00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:52,719 Speaker 1: it's this face kills people. The the n r A 1062 00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:57,719 Speaker 1: they are, there's this like social like uh culture war 1063 00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:00,319 Speaker 1: component of how they do what they're doing. But they 1064 00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:03,719 Speaker 1: fundamentally represent the gun industry in any industry that can 1065 00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:05,680 Speaker 1: stop there from being a way to sue them if 1066 00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:08,759 Speaker 1: their products don't work. We'll do it if they can, 1067 00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:13,400 Speaker 1: you know. It's just it's just it's yeah, it's so 1068 00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:16,320 Speaker 1: insane to get to a point where it's so clearly 1069 00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:20,600 Speaker 1: a manufacturing lobby mixed in with a culture war issue 1070 00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:25,960 Speaker 1: that just creates death everywhere. Yeah, it's and it's I 1071 00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:29,160 Speaker 1: mean again for among other things, don't buy tortist guns 1072 00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:34,840 Speaker 1: for any practical purpose. Um uh. In the nineteen nineties, 1073 00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:38,439 Speaker 1: more than forty U S. Cities filed lawsuits against gun manufacturers, 1074 00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:41,440 Speaker 1: spurred on by a surgeon violent crime. This was the 1075 00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:45,240 Speaker 1: super Predator era. Um Now. I can't speak as to 1076 00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:47,480 Speaker 1: the legal merits of the individual cases of these cities 1077 00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:50,720 Speaker 1: against these gun manufacturers, but the response the n r 1078 00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:53,880 Speaker 1: H shows was interesting. They used their lobbying arm to 1079 00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:57,000 Speaker 1: launch a campaign that got Senator Larry Craig of Idaho 1080 00:57:57,080 --> 00:58:00,160 Speaker 1: and Representative Cliff Sterns of Florida to propose a piece 1081 00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:03,560 Speaker 1: of legislation that would end all pending litigation against gun 1082 00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:07,680 Speaker 1: companies and prevent any future litigation. It took a while 1083 00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:09,760 Speaker 1: to actually get the law, which is the p l 1084 00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:12,320 Speaker 1: c a A written, UH, and by the time it 1085 00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:15,080 Speaker 1: was introduced, George W. Bush was on his second term. 1086 00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:17,680 Speaker 1: In October two thousand five, he signed the p l 1087 00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:20,280 Speaker 1: c A A and the law which blocked lawsuits from 1088 00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:24,440 Speaker 1: seeking damages on gun industry companies for unlawful use of 1089 00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:27,520 Speaker 1: a firearm. Right, So if the company could be sued 1090 00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:30,240 Speaker 1: for like breaking the law in some way, UM, but 1091 00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:34,160 Speaker 1: they cannot be sued for what people do with their weapons. 1092 00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:37,600 Speaker 1: And I have some conflicting feelings on some of these lawsuits. 1093 00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:39,400 Speaker 1: But one of the things that people will point out 1094 00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:42,640 Speaker 1: is that the advertising of a lot of these companies 1095 00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:47,360 Speaker 1: um like leads to the like. And this is a 1096 00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:49,080 Speaker 1: big thing like the Sandy Hook lawsuit, right, One of 1097 00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:51,600 Speaker 1: the big issues. One of the big like points that 1098 00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:54,880 Speaker 1: used to justify like the suing against the bush Master 1099 00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:57,000 Speaker 1: who made the gun that was used in Sandy Hook, 1100 00:58:57,440 --> 00:59:00,360 Speaker 1: was this UM this ad campaign they'd just done where 1101 00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:04,240 Speaker 1: it was like a consider your Man card reissued and 1102 00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:05,800 Speaker 1: they would like send you a man card with an 1103 00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:08,920 Speaker 1: a R fifteen and it's it's it's again, there's a again. 1104 00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:12,040 Speaker 1: I this is like a complicated thing to get into entirely, 1105 00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:14,640 Speaker 1: but there's a debate to be had, And into my mind, 1106 00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:17,120 Speaker 1: the area in which it's kind of most relevant to 1107 00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:19,720 Speaker 1: have this debate is on to what extent is does 1108 00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:23,280 Speaker 1: the way the gun industry tries to sell weapons to 1109 00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:28,280 Speaker 1: people UM complicit in when those weapons are used for violence. So, 1110 00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:32,000 Speaker 1: for example, when Daniel Defense launches an ad where you 1111 00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:35,040 Speaker 1: have like Bible verse and a small child holding an 1112 00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:39,400 Speaker 1: air fifteen um, to what extent does that help to lead? 1113 00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:41,880 Speaker 1: To what extent does that help make gun culture in 1114 00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:44,360 Speaker 1: the United States more violent? Right? And this is not 1115 00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:46,959 Speaker 1: really what the lawsuits are, Like the Vivaldi families aren't 1116 00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:49,560 Speaker 1: suing Daniel Defense or that they're attempting to right now. 1117 00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:52,120 Speaker 1: This is all happening at the moment on those lines. 1118 00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:54,360 Speaker 1: But to my mind that's kind of the most That's 1119 00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:56,920 Speaker 1: the thing that like, I think there's a point on 1120 00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:01,520 Speaker 1: I mean, it's like, uh, I mean the way cigarettes 1121 01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:05,320 Speaker 1: were marketed change. You know, yes, we're regulated like crazy 1122 01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:11,280 Speaker 1: and has actually had an effect on the amount of smokers. Yeah, 1123 01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:14,520 Speaker 1: and so anyway, again I have some complicated thoughts on 1124 01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:18,120 Speaker 1: like suing companies for the unlawful use of their products, 1125 01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:20,720 Speaker 1: but there's like, anyway, the p l C I a 1126 01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:23,040 Speaker 1: kind of ended that for a long time. I mean, 1127 01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:25,880 Speaker 1: this is starting to be challenged, but for for fifteen 1128 01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:28,240 Speaker 1: or seventeen years or whatever, made any kind of like 1129 01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:31,480 Speaker 1: debate meaningless, right because it was just prohibited and it 1130 01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:34,840 Speaker 1: was prohibited. Again, this is the n r A spent 1131 01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:37,800 Speaker 1: a lot of money on George W. Bush's campaigns. You know, 1132 01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:43,520 Speaker 1: I am wondering if the like initially the Patachi Magic 1133 01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:47,520 Speaker 1: wand actually was a back massager, and if you could 1134 01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:52,640 Speaker 1: sue sue a company because it gave your wife an orgasm, 1135 01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:55,520 Speaker 1: well the like again there, I think people do need 1136 01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:57,720 Speaker 1: to consider when we talk about, like, to what extent 1137 01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:00,120 Speaker 1: should a gun manufacturer be liable for something of out 1138 01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:03,000 Speaker 1: of mass shooting? There are some unsettling implications to some 1139 01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:05,480 Speaker 1: of that. Um, it's not as super cut, it's not 1140 01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:08,720 Speaker 1: as cut and dry as certain other things are. I'm 1141 01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:11,560 Speaker 1: not saying it's a slippery slope necessarily, but I am 1142 01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:15,800 Speaker 1: saying that I thought it was a back massager, and 1143 01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:19,360 Speaker 1: now it's better at making my wife calm than I am. 1144 01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:23,240 Speaker 1: And that has been Yeah, and well, I mean, it 1145 01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:26,440 Speaker 1: seems kind of unfair to me to have not known that. 1146 01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:29,200 Speaker 1: What's really I mean, people are bringing up people on 1147 01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:31,480 Speaker 1: Twitter have brought up the fact that, like you're limited 1148 01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:34,000 Speaker 1: to six dildos I think in the state of Texas, 1149 01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:36,680 Speaker 1: is that right? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, there's like literal laws 1150 01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:38,040 Speaker 1: on how many. I mean, I don't think they've ever 1151 01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:41,240 Speaker 1: been in. What has been enforced though, is that like 1152 01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:43,520 Speaker 1: anyone you know who works at a sex shop in 1153 01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:46,560 Speaker 1: Texas has to be like has is like prepared. This 1154 01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:48,360 Speaker 1: is a little little bit less the case now. But 1155 01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:51,160 Speaker 1: when I had for instantly two thousand's like you get 1156 01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:52,760 Speaker 1: training on like what to do if you get rated 1157 01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:55,960 Speaker 1: because you're not allowed to sell sex toys. Um, they had. 1158 01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:58,240 Speaker 1: They were always called cake toppers, right, like the dildos 1159 01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:00,800 Speaker 1: and ship were like cake toppers or per sal massages 1160 01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:03,600 Speaker 1: or whatever. But you couldn't like you couldn't say, like 1161 01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:05,280 Speaker 1: these are for fucking in the same way that like 1162 01:02:05,560 --> 01:02:07,480 Speaker 1: you could sell a bong, but you had to call 1163 01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:10,520 Speaker 1: it a water pipe for tobacco, like if you use 1164 01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:13,680 Speaker 1: the ball word bong in a Texas. Again, head shops 1165 01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:16,680 Speaker 1: were always kind of inconsistent about how much they were 1166 01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:19,840 Speaker 1: paranoid about this. But like you you could get asked 1167 01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:22,160 Speaker 1: to leave for calling something a bong in a in 1168 01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:24,400 Speaker 1: a right, But I mean, what do you what do 1169 01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:27,560 Speaker 1: you call that? You know that you know that silicon, 1170 01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:30,240 Speaker 1: but that has both the pussy and the vagiant. That's 1171 01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:34,280 Speaker 1: a sex ass. That's the sex ass, ye, But you 1172 01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:37,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just saying, how do you market that? 1173 01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:40,680 Speaker 1: So I don't I don't think they really had sex ass, 1174 01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:43,680 Speaker 1: although I know people bought um fucking what do you 1175 01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:46,240 Speaker 1: call them? The flesh lights, So there must have been some, 1176 01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:49,040 Speaker 1: like I'm guessing they probably they must have been advertised 1177 01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:50,960 Speaker 1: as like a novelty. Right, It's like this is for 1178 01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:53,400 Speaker 1: joking around at a bachelorette parts and you put it 1179 01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:57,720 Speaker 1: like they're they're like, it's dumb all Texas. His whole 1180 01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:00,520 Speaker 1: legal system is stupid issues, that's insane. That's a lot 1181 01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:02,600 Speaker 1: of fun though. I mean, you know, but people get 1182 01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:06,480 Speaker 1: around it like I didn't have access to a big silicon, 1183 01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:11,480 Speaker 1: you know, but vagina and so I suck the big 1184 01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:14,440 Speaker 1: mouth billy bass. Yeah, who didn't suck a big mouth 1185 01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:18,400 Speaker 1: billy bass. Yeah, I'm just saying universal experience of people 1186 01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:21,120 Speaker 1: in the early two thousands. Yeah, I'm sorry. I just 1187 01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:24,400 Speaker 1: like eventually I just was like, we're gonna start talking 1188 01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:29,160 Speaker 1: about com talking about Look, you know the same year 1189 01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:31,200 Speaker 1: that George W. Bush signs the p l c. A 1190 01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:33,560 Speaker 1: A and the law, that's the year that many millions 1191 01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:36,640 Speaker 1: of young American boys encountered a billy large mouth bass 1192 01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:39,760 Speaker 1: for the yeah, and and thanks to the n r 1193 01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:42,920 Speaker 1: a's lobbying, the Billy Bass Company couldn't be suited for 1194 01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:48,720 Speaker 1: taking the rigidity of all those boys. Take me to 1195 01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:52,560 Speaker 1: your virginity, all right, all right. The last thing I 1196 01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:55,280 Speaker 1: want to talk about here, and this is maybe the 1197 01:03:55,360 --> 01:03:58,640 Speaker 1: most unsettling thing the n r A has done, UM, 1198 01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:02,880 Speaker 1: is that they have aid it impossible not just two 1199 01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:05,560 Speaker 1: like not only do they fight like any regulation that 1200 01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:10,360 Speaker 1: might potentially impact positively America's gun violence problem or America's 1201 01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:14,400 Speaker 1: gun death problem, they've made it impossible to research how 1202 01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:17,760 Speaker 1: gun violence works and like the extent to which different 1203 01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:22,200 Speaker 1: policies affected UM. In the New England Journal of Medicine 1204 01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:24,800 Speaker 1: published an article that shows showing that gun ownership was 1205 01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:27,360 Speaker 1: a risk factor for homicide in the home. Now, this 1206 01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:29,080 Speaker 1: is a study will see cited a great deal, and 1207 01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:31,440 Speaker 1: it's often used to argue that hot firearms in the 1208 01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:34,760 Speaker 1: home make people less safe. This study was widely reported 1209 01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:36,360 Speaker 1: on it at the time, and it scared the ship 1210 01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:38,240 Speaker 1: out of the n r A. So the n r 1211 01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:41,720 Speaker 1: A campaign to eliminate the organization that had funded the study, 1212 01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:45,400 Speaker 1: The c d c S National Center for Energy Injury Prevention. 1213 01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:50,200 Speaker 1: Congress included language in the Omnibus Appropriations Bill to insist 1214 01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:52,880 Speaker 1: that quote, none of the funds made available for injury 1215 01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:55,160 Speaker 1: prevention and control with the Centers for Disease Control and 1216 01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:58,080 Speaker 1: Prevention may be used to advocate or promote gun control. 1217 01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:01,080 Speaker 1: Now you may note they weren't doing that with that study. 1218 01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:03,200 Speaker 1: It was a study that you could use to argue 1219 01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:06,080 Speaker 1: gun control, supported gun control, but it was just a 1220 01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:09,160 Speaker 1: study on like the homicide risk and how that changes 1221 01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:10,680 Speaker 1: what do you have a gun in the home? Right, Like, 1222 01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:14,720 Speaker 1: the CDC was not like lobbying specifically. They were carrying 1223 01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:17,960 Speaker 1: out a study, but they are basically studied, Yeah, how 1224 01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:21,000 Speaker 1: people get hurt in the home. And the n r 1225 01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:23,640 Speaker 1: A argued that was inherently like that's political and should 1226 01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:26,760 Speaker 1: be illegal. Um. And then they make that happen, right Like, 1227 01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:29,880 Speaker 1: Congress goes through with this ship Um. This is later 1228 01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:32,680 Speaker 1: referred to as the Dickey Amendment because of some dude 1229 01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:36,680 Speaker 1: named Dickie. Um. Now, under extensive lobbying pressure, Congress also 1230 01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:39,560 Speaker 1: removed two point six million dollars from the CDC's budget, 1231 01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:42,080 Speaker 1: as that was the amount they had invested in firearm 1232 01:05:42,160 --> 01:05:44,640 Speaker 1: injury research the year before. So they cut all of 1233 01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:46,600 Speaker 1: the money out of the CDC's budget that had been 1234 01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:49,240 Speaker 1: used to research firearm ministry. And again, whatever you think 1235 01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:51,400 Speaker 1: about gun control, there are four dred million of these 1236 01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:53,440 Speaker 1: things in the fucking country. There should be research into 1237 01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:57,360 Speaker 1: how they affect people. Right, just seems prudent. It seems prudent. 1238 01:05:57,560 --> 01:06:02,440 Speaker 1: Just seems prudent. Yeah, fucking if auto companies were blocking 1239 01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:06,360 Speaker 1: research into how car accidents work, right, like, you would 1240 01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:09,360 Speaker 1: say that's nuts, you know, because it would be um, 1241 01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:13,520 Speaker 1: and it's not even it's like, it's not even tried 1242 01:06:13,560 --> 01:06:15,720 Speaker 1: to do that, but right, it's I don't fault them 1243 01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:17,840 Speaker 1: for trying. It's the same way with there. You know, 1244 01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:19,800 Speaker 1: that's what they're going to do. That's what they're gonna do. 1245 01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:22,439 Speaker 1: They're gonna try to do that, and you know, it's 1246 01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:25,680 Speaker 1: a fucked up capitalist system we're in. If you have 1247 01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:29,360 Speaker 1: the money, you can try. The crazy thing is the 1248 01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:33,520 Speaker 1: success rate of the n r A in these then 1249 01:06:33,600 --> 01:06:39,640 Speaker 1: these things that are completely like sense. There's there's a 1250 01:06:39,680 --> 01:06:42,160 Speaker 1: wide variety of arguments about how should you interpret this, 1251 01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:44,800 Speaker 1: this the you know, the findings to studies like this, 1252 01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:47,680 Speaker 1: to what extent should they inform policy? Um, all that 1253 01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:49,800 Speaker 1: kind of stuff. But at the end of the day, 1254 01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:52,600 Speaker 1: I think if you're saying you shouldn't be studying this 1255 01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:55,000 Speaker 1: kind of stuff at all, you were the bad guy here. 1256 01:06:55,040 --> 01:06:59,680 Speaker 1: You're definitely bad at the very least coming in bad faith. 1257 01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:05,840 Speaker 1: But yeah, you are bad guys stuff. Yeah, and should 1258 01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:09,120 Speaker 1: be stopped. And federal funding for research into gun violence 1259 01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:12,840 Speaker 1: and gun related injuries dried up after that. Since nineteen 1260 01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:16,120 Speaker 1: the cdc IS funding for firearm injury prevention has fallen 1261 01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:19,120 Speaker 1: nine and similar attempts to fund research have met with 1262 01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:21,680 Speaker 1: further attacks on the ability to study any of these stuff, 1263 01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:25,880 Speaker 1: most recently in two thousand twelve. Um and yeah, um 1264 01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:30,479 Speaker 1: so anyway, that's broadly speaking the story our buddy Neil Knox. 1265 01:07:30,520 --> 01:07:31,960 Speaker 1: I should give you a little bit of context on 1266 01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:35,760 Speaker 1: how our heroes turned out. Neil Knox wound up being 1267 01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:38,560 Speaker 1: way too radical for even Harland Carter's in r A. 1268 01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:40,800 Speaker 1: He was forced out of the organization in nineteen eighty 1269 01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:43,640 Speaker 1: two after being overshadowed by the rise of Wayne Lapierre. 1270 01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:46,440 Speaker 1: I think Lapierre kind of helps maneuver him out. He 1271 01:07:46,560 --> 01:07:49,840 Speaker 1: dies of colon cancer in two thousand five. He outlived 1272 01:07:49,880 --> 01:07:52,760 Speaker 1: Carter by a fair amount. Harlan died not surprisingly of 1273 01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:56,240 Speaker 1: lung cancer in nineteen nine one. So the tobacco industry 1274 01:07:56,280 --> 01:07:58,840 Speaker 1: did us all a solid on this one. Occasionally, it 1275 01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:01,520 Speaker 1: works out. One of his final acts in this world 1276 01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:03,240 Speaker 1: was to hand over control of the n r A 1277 01:08:03,560 --> 01:08:10,120 Speaker 1: to Wayne Lapierre. Shit, that's the that's the Hardland Carter 1278 01:08:10,200 --> 01:08:12,760 Speaker 1: in the n r A. Everybody, God damn. There's a 1279 01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:16,200 Speaker 1: pretty good song about him called Raymond Casciano by the 1280 01:08:16,280 --> 01:08:20,680 Speaker 1: Drive By Truckers, which is good. Well, that guy fucking uh, 1281 01:08:21,120 --> 01:08:24,680 Speaker 1: he sucks. It sucks that he sucks. That he's dead too. 1282 01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:26,960 Speaker 1: I feel like the one of the big reasons where 1283 01:08:26,960 --> 01:08:29,080 Speaker 1: I'm just like, I don't you know, I'm not for like, hey, 1284 01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:31,760 Speaker 1: let's make guns illegal or whatnot, is because like I 1285 01:08:31,800 --> 01:08:35,519 Speaker 1: feel like guns might end up being very useful in 1286 01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:41,080 Speaker 1: uh stopping all these ridiculous you know, fucking n r 1287 01:08:41,160 --> 01:08:45,439 Speaker 1: A lobbies. You know. Yeah, And this is um I 1288 01:08:45,560 --> 01:08:47,240 Speaker 1: have I have tried. I think I've done a very 1289 01:08:47,280 --> 01:08:49,960 Speaker 1: good job of like not inserting a bunch of my 1290 01:08:50,040 --> 01:08:52,920 Speaker 1: own specific opinions on gun control, because at the end 1291 01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:54,880 Speaker 1: of the day, there is a history of here and 1292 01:08:54,920 --> 01:08:58,080 Speaker 1: it deserves to be like talked about um without a 1293 01:08:58,160 --> 01:09:01,920 Speaker 1: tremendous amount of editorializing. But yeah, I I feel similarly 1294 01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:06,400 Speaker 1: like my attitudes on what gun control should be around 1295 01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:08,920 Speaker 1: UM are impacted by like number one, I don't think 1296 01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:11,600 Speaker 1: only rich people should have guns. I don't don't like 1297 01:09:11,720 --> 01:09:14,320 Speaker 1: the idea of a thousand percent excise tax on air 1298 01:09:14,439 --> 01:09:17,519 Speaker 1: fifteen so that only wealthy people can afford them, um. 1299 01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:20,200 Speaker 1: And I don't like the idea that like, at this point, 1300 01:09:20,240 --> 01:09:23,200 Speaker 1: at least culturally, the only people who are interested in 1301 01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:26,759 Speaker 1: and having guns are people who are interested in upholding 1302 01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:30,479 Speaker 1: white supremacy. And that is deliberately designed that way. And 1303 01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:32,000 Speaker 1: one of I mean one of the things that has 1304 01:09:32,040 --> 01:09:33,840 Speaker 1: happened in the last couple of years. This is really 1305 01:09:33,880 --> 01:09:37,800 Speaker 1: accelerated since is the demographics of people buying firearms have 1306 01:09:37,960 --> 01:09:40,840 Speaker 1: changed wildly, particularly first time gun buyers, and it's gotten 1307 01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:44,040 Speaker 1: a lot more left blaning and a lot less white um. 1308 01:09:44,680 --> 01:09:48,040 Speaker 1: And you know, there's a variety of personally, okay, because 1309 01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:50,200 Speaker 1: people do ask about this because I talk about guns 1310 01:09:50,280 --> 01:09:52,760 Speaker 1: sometimes in terms of what I think are the number 1311 01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:56,160 Speaker 1: one the laws that you could most easily pass without 1312 01:09:56,360 --> 01:09:59,120 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court guaranteed shutting them down. And I think 1313 01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:02,040 Speaker 1: a federal assault and spanned the Supreme Court will rule 1314 01:10:02,080 --> 01:10:04,120 Speaker 1: against right, like, it will go to the Supreme Court 1315 01:10:04,160 --> 01:10:06,320 Speaker 1: and they will rule against it in their current construction 1316 01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:09,120 Speaker 1: outside of like talking about should we stack the Supreme 1317 01:10:09,160 --> 01:10:12,679 Speaker 1: Court whatever, like by not doing that. So, um, stuff 1318 01:10:12,720 --> 01:10:16,559 Speaker 1: that I think would not number one, would not necessary. 1319 01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:19,559 Speaker 1: Like obviously anything is a crapshoot with the Supreme Court, 1320 01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:22,400 Speaker 1: So literally anything could get turned down because they're about 1321 01:10:22,400 --> 01:10:26,200 Speaker 1: to rule on a concealed handgun carry bill anyway. But um, 1322 01:10:27,080 --> 01:10:30,800 Speaker 1: the I think, I think it's perfectly reasonable and is 1323 01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:34,040 Speaker 1: also there is legal precedent for raising the age at 1324 01:10:34,040 --> 01:10:35,479 Speaker 1: which someone has to be in order to buy a 1325 01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:40,160 Speaker 1: semi automatic firearm. Um, certainly, eighteen year olds are not 1326 01:10:40,439 --> 01:10:44,280 Speaker 1: full adults, and our current gun legislation recognizes that by 1327 01:10:44,320 --> 01:10:48,120 Speaker 1: banning them from buying handguns. Although that's also not entirely accurate, 1328 01:10:48,160 --> 01:10:49,880 Speaker 1: because you can still buy handguns through like face to 1329 01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:51,280 Speaker 1: face sales or have them given to you by a 1330 01:10:51,320 --> 01:10:54,160 Speaker 1: parent or whatever. There's always every there's always like ways 1331 01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:57,880 Speaker 1: around this kind of stuff. Um, but it is it's 1332 01:10:57,920 --> 01:11:01,000 Speaker 1: been established since I think six that the federal government 1333 01:11:01,040 --> 01:11:04,559 Speaker 1: regulates stop does not want people under twenty one buying handguns. 1334 01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:07,479 Speaker 1: So it's the kind of thing where if you were 1335 01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:10,759 Speaker 1: to pass a law extending that to semi automatic rifles, 1336 01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:14,240 Speaker 1: you'd have a stronger argument in front of the Supreme 1337 01:11:14,320 --> 01:11:15,960 Speaker 1: Court if it came to the Supreme Court in order 1338 01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:18,360 Speaker 1: to like defit that piece of gun control legislation. And 1339 01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:21,200 Speaker 1: both of our most recent mass shootings as of this recording, 1340 01:11:21,240 --> 01:11:24,880 Speaker 1: there may have been another one. We're eighteen year olds 1341 01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:26,600 Speaker 1: who bought a gun and immediately carried. So I do 1342 01:11:26,760 --> 01:11:28,320 Speaker 1: think just on a moral level, there's a case to 1343 01:11:28,360 --> 01:11:30,439 Speaker 1: be made that, yeah, this might save some lives, and 1344 01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:32,400 Speaker 1: I think the best thing you could do you would 1345 01:11:32,439 --> 01:11:34,680 Speaker 1: probably not have to call it a red flag law 1346 01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:37,680 Speaker 1: because that term has been politicized, but a law that 1347 01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:40,240 Speaker 1: would allow you to take guns and stop people from 1348 01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:42,200 Speaker 1: buying guns if they have a history of domestic violence 1349 01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:44,839 Speaker 1: and violence towards women and making violent threats of mass shootings, 1350 01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:48,920 Speaker 1: which seems like a no brainer and like everything politicized 1351 01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:51,639 Speaker 1: to a stupid degree. But the Buffalo shooter was aunt 1352 01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:55,800 Speaker 1: had been doing like threatening shootings and threatening women, and 1353 01:11:55,920 --> 01:11:58,439 Speaker 1: like had was on law enforcement's radar, should have been 1354 01:11:58,520 --> 01:12:01,160 Speaker 1: it should be possible to do something there, right, good figure, 1355 01:12:01,479 --> 01:12:04,719 Speaker 1: And uh yeah, I feel like that there's so many 1356 01:12:04,920 --> 01:12:09,080 Speaker 1: like common sense like laws that uh you're that don't 1357 01:12:09,200 --> 01:12:12,400 Speaker 1: exist that you're surprised every time you find out they 1358 01:12:12,439 --> 01:12:15,800 Speaker 1: don't exist. I do think, um. I think one of 1359 01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:19,439 Speaker 1: the things where gun control advocates make a mistake is 1360 01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:23,080 Speaker 1: focusing on universal background checks, not because I don't think 1361 01:12:23,680 --> 01:12:25,679 Speaker 1: it's a good idea to have background checks for buying 1362 01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:28,240 Speaker 1: a gun, but because nearly all of the guns bought 1363 01:12:28,280 --> 01:12:30,639 Speaker 1: and even used in massacres were by people who passed 1364 01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:33,160 Speaker 1: a background check, including the buffalo of Aldi shooters. They 1365 01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:36,800 Speaker 1: both like universal background checks, they passed those, so like 1366 01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:40,120 Speaker 1: that that's not as much of the solution as I 1367 01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:42,840 Speaker 1: think something like an effective kind of Again, I think 1368 01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:45,040 Speaker 1: you would need a better term than red flag law 1369 01:12:45,080 --> 01:12:48,080 Speaker 1: because but also maybe I don't know the right's gonna 1370 01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:51,080 Speaker 1: culture or whatever you try to do, right, but everything 1371 01:12:51,160 --> 01:12:57,479 Speaker 1: is poison pilled no matter what you can any If 1372 01:12:57,520 --> 01:12:59,400 Speaker 1: you hit your wife and kids, you shouldn't have a 1373 01:12:59,479 --> 01:13:01,240 Speaker 1: gun bill. But of course one of the issues with 1374 01:13:01,320 --> 01:13:04,200 Speaker 1: that is that you're going to disarm the police. Right. 1375 01:13:06,360 --> 01:13:08,000 Speaker 1: I could talk about like what I think would be 1376 01:13:08,080 --> 01:13:09,840 Speaker 1: a good idea at the end of the day, Like 1377 01:13:10,240 --> 01:13:12,439 Speaker 1: I don't know, like what I what actually is going 1378 01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:15,920 Speaker 1: to pass. That's a totally different conversation. And yeah, no, 1379 01:13:16,080 --> 01:13:17,840 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know what the answer is. I 1380 01:13:17,960 --> 01:13:21,400 Speaker 1: know that one thing that I don't think the answer 1381 01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:25,639 Speaker 1: is is um is this like mutually assured destruction thing 1382 01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:28,519 Speaker 1: where we're all armed at all times and that's the 1383 01:13:28,640 --> 01:13:32,280 Speaker 1: society we live in. I also know the answer isn't 1384 01:13:32,640 --> 01:13:38,840 Speaker 1: um every like liberal and leftist being like, oh, well, 1385 01:13:39,200 --> 01:13:43,519 Speaker 1: I'm you know, I'm going to trust that the government 1386 01:13:43,640 --> 01:13:47,080 Speaker 1: and the police will keep me safe from the bad men, 1387 01:13:47,320 --> 01:13:50,080 Speaker 1: and so I'm like, it's it's hard to know. It's 1388 01:13:50,080 --> 01:13:52,280 Speaker 1: hard to know what to do. I mean, this is 1389 01:13:52,320 --> 01:13:54,720 Speaker 1: a very difficult issue because again people a lot of 1390 01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:57,200 Speaker 1: people say, no, it's simple, just like banned the guns. 1391 01:13:57,280 --> 01:13:59,720 Speaker 1: But it's like, well, how are you going to do that? 1392 01:14:00,160 --> 01:14:02,960 Speaker 1: There is legal precedent, there is a Supreme Court, and 1393 01:14:03,080 --> 01:14:05,799 Speaker 1: also there's a police force that's not going to disarm 1394 01:14:05,880 --> 01:14:07,920 Speaker 1: certain people. Like, this is not as simple as you're 1395 01:14:07,920 --> 01:14:09,800 Speaker 1: making it out to be. You can say it is 1396 01:14:09,880 --> 01:14:12,240 Speaker 1: the guns, and yeah, of course access to guns is 1397 01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:14,639 Speaker 1: like why a lot of this is happening, But also 1398 01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:17,640 Speaker 1: like that doesn't that's not the end of of like 1399 01:14:18,080 --> 01:14:20,920 Speaker 1: the complexity of the issue because there are four million 1400 01:14:20,960 --> 01:14:23,479 Speaker 1: of these fucking things in the country right now, um, 1401 01:14:23,640 --> 01:14:26,800 Speaker 1: and a whole culture built up around being ready to 1402 01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:29,400 Speaker 1: immediately use them against right now gay and trans people 1403 01:14:29,400 --> 01:14:33,479 Speaker 1: are particularly in the fucking um crosshairs. And again this 1404 01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:36,920 Speaker 1: is like, so I don't know. I think fundamentally, like 1405 01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:40,719 Speaker 1: I I argue a lot about gun control with people, 1406 01:14:41,040 --> 01:14:42,479 Speaker 1: I think the folks who want to see more of 1407 01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:46,000 Speaker 1: it are coming from a fundamentally natural and noble position, 1408 01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:48,639 Speaker 1: which is looking at repeating massacres and going like, we've 1409 01:14:48,640 --> 01:14:51,160 Speaker 1: gotta be able to do something about like there's gonna 1410 01:14:51,160 --> 01:14:52,920 Speaker 1: be something we can do about this. Ship. No, I 1411 01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:55,400 Speaker 1: completely understand it. I mean, and yeah, I feel I 1412 01:14:55,439 --> 01:14:57,560 Speaker 1: feel the same way. It's like, there's certainly got to 1413 01:14:57,600 --> 01:15:03,960 Speaker 1: be a fucking solution to this set is um, it's 1414 01:15:04,040 --> 01:15:08,320 Speaker 1: just like an acceptable state of affairs. Um. But like 1415 01:15:08,479 --> 01:15:11,360 Speaker 1: so many of the problems we have, like how to 1416 01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:15,120 Speaker 1: fix it, and like how to fix it without having 1417 01:15:15,360 --> 01:15:18,120 Speaker 1: a shooting war over it, and like does the fixing 1418 01:15:18,200 --> 01:15:21,200 Speaker 1: and like, um, I think like one of the things 1419 01:15:21,280 --> 01:15:23,080 Speaker 1: that is frustrating to me is that like it is 1420 01:15:23,640 --> 01:15:26,120 Speaker 1: it is just a big fundraising issue in a lot 1421 01:15:26,160 --> 01:15:28,360 Speaker 1: of days and in ways that I think are kind 1422 01:15:28,360 --> 01:15:34,519 Speaker 1: of like unhelpful and actually solving the problem. And I, uh, again, 1423 01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:40,080 Speaker 1: nobody knows what to do with this because it's it's 1424 01:15:40,120 --> 01:15:44,120 Speaker 1: so much like no one has ever had anything like 1425 01:15:44,240 --> 01:15:47,560 Speaker 1: this happen, right. People bring up the Dunblane massacre, the 1426 01:15:47,640 --> 01:15:49,280 Speaker 1: Port Arthur massacre. They bring out like, you know, when 1427 01:15:49,280 --> 01:15:52,960 Speaker 1: Australia confiscated all those guns and that was two guns, 1428 01:15:53,439 --> 01:15:56,200 Speaker 1: Like there are twenty million are fifteens in the United States. 1429 01:15:56,520 --> 01:15:59,519 Speaker 1: There has never been a society that's heavily armed or 1430 01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:02,920 Speaker 1: a society that has turned the random mass killing of 1431 01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:07,120 Speaker 1: civilians into a meme. Yeah, both of those things have 1432 01:16:07,240 --> 01:16:11,000 Speaker 1: happened here, and they happened alongside like the militarization of 1433 01:16:11,080 --> 01:16:16,439 Speaker 1: an increasingly unaccountable, violent police force that wants dictatorial control 1434 01:16:16,479 --> 01:16:19,000 Speaker 1: of American cities, And all of this stuff is pretty 1435 01:16:19,200 --> 01:16:23,080 Speaker 1: pretty unique historically, so I don't know how we fix it. 1436 01:16:23,600 --> 01:16:29,760 Speaker 1: It feels so American and unique that it feels like, uh, yeah, 1437 01:16:29,960 --> 01:16:32,880 Speaker 1: if I knew the answer to it, I would I 1438 01:16:32,920 --> 01:16:36,640 Speaker 1: would say it, but I really do not. I mean, 1439 01:16:36,760 --> 01:16:39,200 Speaker 1: and again it's like one of those I don't vote, 1440 01:16:40,200 --> 01:16:42,599 Speaker 1: I'm not a gun issue voter. I'm barely a voter, 1441 01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:44,960 Speaker 1: right like, I do vote, but I don't believe in it. 1442 01:16:45,000 --> 01:16:47,720 Speaker 1: I don't believe it's an I vote as I vote 1443 01:16:47,760 --> 01:16:50,240 Speaker 1: as like a well what if I'm wrong, If I'm wrong, 1444 01:16:50,439 --> 01:16:53,880 Speaker 1: and it's best to vote and and vote, and the 1445 01:16:53,920 --> 01:16:56,640 Speaker 1: people who say you've gotta vote if I'm wrong and 1446 01:16:56,720 --> 01:17:00,560 Speaker 1: they're right, then, um, at least I I put in 1447 01:17:00,600 --> 01:17:02,439 Speaker 1: the vote, and I tried that thing. I don't think 1448 01:17:02,479 --> 01:17:04,560 Speaker 1: it's going to work. I don't think they're going to 1449 01:17:04,640 --> 01:17:08,400 Speaker 1: solve any of these problems. I think, um, other things 1450 01:17:08,439 --> 01:17:10,240 Speaker 1: are going to be happening in the future that are 1451 01:17:10,360 --> 01:17:13,560 Speaker 1: not what we recognize as part of American politics, but 1452 01:17:13,600 --> 01:17:15,400 Speaker 1: are going to become the way things get decided in 1453 01:17:15,479 --> 01:17:17,599 Speaker 1: this country. And I think it's going to be uglier 1454 01:17:17,680 --> 01:17:20,479 Speaker 1: and weirder than our parents were used to. But I 1455 01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:23,200 Speaker 1: do like voting is like, well, okay, but maybe I'm 1456 01:17:23,200 --> 01:17:24,519 Speaker 1: wrong about that. It's the same reason they have a 1457 01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:27,120 Speaker 1: four oh one k right right, right, right right, Maybe 1458 01:17:27,160 --> 01:17:29,080 Speaker 1: there will be an economy in thirty years so I'll 1459 01:17:29,120 --> 01:17:31,000 Speaker 1: get to retire, you know. It's the same reason I 1460 01:17:31,120 --> 01:17:35,840 Speaker 1: own half of a bitcoin exactly. Maybe I'm wrong yeah, 1461 01:17:36,120 --> 01:17:40,200 Speaker 1: you know get it. Yeah you got just in case 1462 01:17:40,800 --> 01:17:44,040 Speaker 1: I'm not missing that. Yeah, I just half a one. 1463 01:17:44,160 --> 01:17:47,280 Speaker 1: That's all I could have for. But the point is is, yeah, 1464 01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:51,519 Speaker 1: I I just want to say I vote, and I 1465 01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:55,519 Speaker 1: also am cynical, and I have the exact same I 1466 01:17:55,600 --> 01:18:00,120 Speaker 1: have the exact same pessimism that you do. But the 1467 01:18:01,479 --> 01:18:04,240 Speaker 1: you know, the really the only optimism that I have 1468 01:18:04,600 --> 01:18:09,200 Speaker 1: is there's gonna be some someone smart who does something good. 1469 01:18:11,120 --> 01:18:13,519 Speaker 1: And I don't want to miss the bust, you know, 1470 01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:16,719 Speaker 1: I mean my and I tend to think we should 1471 01:18:16,760 --> 01:18:20,560 Speaker 1: all maybe if if people are more committed to like 1472 01:18:21,640 --> 01:18:25,600 Speaker 1: getting out there and taking personal responsibility, not not as 1473 01:18:25,640 --> 01:18:28,320 Speaker 1: a militia um, but in in a in a in 1474 01:18:28,400 --> 01:18:32,560 Speaker 1: a in a responsibilify believing. I think sometimes because we 1475 01:18:32,680 --> 01:18:34,559 Speaker 1: just had a mass shooting in Portland that was stopped 1476 01:18:34,560 --> 01:18:36,360 Speaker 1: by an armed member of the community, of shooting at 1477 01:18:36,400 --> 01:18:40,719 Speaker 1: at at a protest for a a police violence victim 1478 01:18:41,439 --> 01:18:44,559 Speaker 1: um that was stopped by an armed member of the community. 1479 01:18:44,840 --> 01:18:47,559 Speaker 1: But I think community defense is everyone should have an 1480 01:18:47,600 --> 01:18:50,920 Speaker 1: I fact, right downsidest owning a gun, no downside to 1481 01:18:51,040 --> 01:18:53,360 Speaker 1: having a tourniquet and some gauze on you and some 1482 01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:55,759 Speaker 1: chess seals and knowing how to use them zero downside 1483 01:18:55,840 --> 01:18:57,880 Speaker 1: could be useful in a car accident. You can have 1484 01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:00,879 Speaker 1: a fucking piece of rebar fall off of building construction 1485 01:19:00,920 --> 01:19:02,720 Speaker 1: and impale somebody and maybe you'd get to save their 1486 01:19:02,760 --> 01:19:05,280 Speaker 1: life with an ifact. Million times that could be useful. 1487 01:19:05,520 --> 01:19:08,960 Speaker 1: Have an i FAC right organizing your community to provide 1488 01:19:09,200 --> 01:19:12,880 Speaker 1: houseless people with um, you know, defense against sweeps, to 1489 01:19:12,960 --> 01:19:15,280 Speaker 1: provide people who are low income with eviction defense, to 1490 01:19:15,800 --> 01:19:19,200 Speaker 1: to stock food pantries, like all of that stuff is uh. 1491 01:19:20,880 --> 01:19:22,960 Speaker 1: You can wear you can wear cool uniforms if you want. 1492 01:19:23,000 --> 01:19:24,280 Speaker 1: While you do, you can get a plate carrier. You 1493 01:19:24,320 --> 01:19:28,360 Speaker 1: can put patches on it. You know, we tactical sunglasses. Yeah, 1494 01:19:28,439 --> 01:19:32,080 Speaker 1: why the hell not? The be the be the be 1495 01:19:32,200 --> 01:19:36,880 Speaker 1: the tactical sunglass guy. Yeah whatever, make it make it cool, 1496 01:19:37,040 --> 01:19:39,400 Speaker 1: Just help your help. Your black panthers look cool as 1497 01:19:39,400 --> 01:19:41,720 Speaker 1: ship when they were like serving food to kids. You know, yeah, 1498 01:19:41,840 --> 01:19:44,479 Speaker 1: they had they had swag, you know. Yeah, they wore 1499 01:19:44,560 --> 01:19:48,559 Speaker 1: berets and look badass, you know, yeah, look as hell. 1500 01:19:48,760 --> 01:19:53,000 Speaker 1: And protect your community and yeah, yeah it doesn't mean 1501 01:19:53,080 --> 01:19:55,719 Speaker 1: you need to own a gun, but maybe a little 1502 01:19:55,800 --> 01:19:59,160 Speaker 1: more community involvement might be helpful. And a society of 1503 01:19:59,280 --> 01:20:02,559 Speaker 1: things that you can you can do. Yeah, abolishing um 1504 01:20:02,840 --> 01:20:11,280 Speaker 1: the police, that is a good idea. Anyway, Matt oh Man, 1505 01:20:11,479 --> 01:20:16,320 Speaker 1: I've had a great time. And if you love uh 1506 01:20:17,080 --> 01:20:21,680 Speaker 1: the bastards and getting behind them, you'll love uh the 1507 01:20:22,520 --> 01:20:26,240 Speaker 1: podcast pot yourself a gun a Sopranos Rewatch podcast, Uh 1508 01:20:26,520 --> 01:20:29,080 Speaker 1: that me and my friend Vince Mancini do. We just 1509 01:20:29,160 --> 01:20:31,640 Speaker 1: finished the entire series, so you can really listen and 1510 01:20:31,800 --> 01:20:34,880 Speaker 1: rewatch the whole thing, and it's great. You'll love it. 1511 01:20:35,280 --> 01:20:39,080 Speaker 1: And yeah, you look forward to uh us doing our 1512 01:20:39,360 --> 01:20:43,000 Speaker 1: the Wire podcast very soon. It's going to be great 1513 01:20:43,960 --> 01:20:47,760 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, speaking about cops being bastards. It's 1514 01:20:47,760 --> 01:20:50,960 Speaker 1: a whole show about it. So you'll you'll love it. 1515 01:20:51,400 --> 01:20:56,200 Speaker 1: And I promise you that, you know, well, we're not gonna, 1516 01:20:57,240 --> 01:20:59,840 Speaker 1: you know, be it's too white guys talking about the Wire. 1517 01:21:00,040 --> 01:21:02,599 Speaker 1: We're not gonna it's you know, so just don't worry. 1518 01:21:02,800 --> 01:21:06,120 Speaker 1: It's good. It'll be good, I promise. I don't know 1519 01:21:06,200 --> 01:21:08,240 Speaker 1: how to say that. I'm excited to listen to it. 1520 01:21:08,400 --> 01:21:13,799 Speaker 1: We don't, you know, we're leftist anyways, I'm excited. Follow 1521 01:21:13,880 --> 01:21:19,880 Speaker 1: me at Matt leap Jokes on Instagram. Follow matt Leeb home. 1522 01:21:20,200 --> 01:21:23,439 Speaker 1: You have a Twitter, I do. It's it's it's at 1523 01:21:23,560 --> 01:21:26,439 Speaker 1: matt leeb and you can follow me there too. That's fine, 1524 01:21:26,520 --> 01:21:30,519 Speaker 1: But I feel no jokes on that one. That's definitely serious. 1525 01:21:30,600 --> 01:21:33,439 Speaker 1: That one. Um, you know, I just post whatever today. 1526 01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:36,880 Speaker 1: In fact, I posted something from a doomsday dried food 1527 01:21:37,360 --> 01:21:41,120 Speaker 1: ad that I saw god and it was really weird. 1528 01:21:41,240 --> 01:21:44,040 Speaker 1: It was like a Mac versus PC commercial, but they 1529 01:21:44,160 --> 01:21:48,400 Speaker 1: made the doomsday the like you know, dried food guy. 1530 01:21:48,720 --> 01:21:50,720 Speaker 1: You know, he was talking about his product. And then 1531 01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:54,400 Speaker 1: the other guy who was selling the fake Patriot food 1532 01:21:55,000 --> 01:22:00,599 Speaker 1: was very much an anti Semitic meme. O. God, Yeah, 1533 01:22:00,680 --> 01:22:03,800 Speaker 1: they made they made him very clearly a Jew, and 1534 01:22:03,920 --> 01:22:08,360 Speaker 1: he it opened with hello fellow Patriots, and I was like, 1535 01:22:08,479 --> 01:22:13,080 Speaker 1: holy fuck, they went for it. And uh yeah, So 1536 01:22:13,560 --> 01:22:16,559 Speaker 1: I posted a little bit of that and you love 1537 01:22:16,680 --> 01:22:19,880 Speaker 1: to see it. You love to see just straight up 1538 01:22:20,560 --> 01:22:25,479 Speaker 1: anti semitism on the on. This was an Instagram ad 1539 01:22:25,640 --> 01:22:30,760 Speaker 1: by the way, but hey, it was on ye anyways, 1540 01:22:30,880 --> 01:22:34,240 Speaker 1: follow me on all the things and learned a can. 1541 01:22:34,680 --> 01:22:38,960 Speaker 1: Look it's cheaper than food buckets. Yes, learned a can 1542 01:22:39,160 --> 01:22:42,040 Speaker 1: and it works way better. It does work very well. Yeah, 1543 01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:47,719 Speaker 1: behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media. 1544 01:22:48,120 --> 01:22:50,719 Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool 1545 01:22:50,800 --> 01:22:53,720 Speaker 1: zone media dot com, or check us out on the 1546 01:22:53,840 --> 01:22:56,479 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get 1547 01:22:56,520 --> 01:22:57,200 Speaker 1: your podcasts.