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Speaker 1: Taking a Walk.

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Speaker 2: A living area was maybe fourteen to fifteen blocks in circumference.

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Speaker 2: You step outside of that line, you got a problem.

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Speaker 2: You only had a certain area to develop in in

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Speaker 2: the first place. You had to make a decision when

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Speaker 2: you step out the line. No, you could write into

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Speaker 2: a problem. But if you want more information, you got

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Speaker 2: to step outside the line. And not just me Berry

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Speaker 2: Gordy smoking, I can name a few we all did

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Speaker 2: in our own way, did the same thing.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Taking a Walk podcast hosted by Buzz Night,

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Speaker 1: where he speaks with some of music's most influential people today.

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Speaker 1: Buzz's guest is William Mickey Stephenson. He's known as the

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Speaker 1: A and R Man, responsible for finding artists like Diana

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Speaker 1: Ross and The Supremes, the Temptations, the Four Tops, Smokey

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Speaker 1: Robinson and the Miracles, and more, the iconic artists that

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Speaker 1: made up the sound of Hitsville, USA, Barry Gordy's Motown label. Now,

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Speaker 1: let's join Buzz Night next with Mickey Stevenson on Taking

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Speaker 1: a Walk.

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Speaker 3: Well, Mickey Stevenson, Motown's first A and R Man. I

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Speaker 3: am so grateful to have you on this virtual edition

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Speaker 3: of the Taking a walk podcast. Thank you so much.

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Speaker 2: Hey, it's a pleasure being here. Yes.

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Speaker 3: So, Nikki, what did your mother mean to you as

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Speaker 3: far as leadership and mentorship and her inspiration to you?

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Speaker 2: Her main point was you have eight hours to work

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Speaker 2: when you get there, eight hours to sleep when you

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Speaker 2: get there. What are you going to do with the

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Speaker 2: other eight You got to put that into action and

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Speaker 2: that was a little difficult for us younger, but as

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Speaker 2: we learned that's very important. The more of that time

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Speaker 2: that you use to develop desires you have make it work.

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Speaker 2: The more time you use of that, the better you'll

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Speaker 2: get and the more you throw it away and I

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Speaker 2: deal with it, the longer it's going to take you

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Speaker 2: to do whatever you think you want to do. Are

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Speaker 2: you following me? Yes, So that's the bottom line. So

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Speaker 2: for that I started using it, not in a hurtry.

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Speaker 2: Well wasn't that's smart? But as time went on, I

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Speaker 2: started recognizing that this is very, very important, and so

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Speaker 2: my brothers and I we rehearsed and we did a

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Speaker 2: lot of things. We rehearsed, we wrote songs, we did

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Speaker 2: we actually used it performing wise. My mother, of course

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Speaker 2: was a singer and a writer, and so we will

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Speaker 2: see her doing the same things that she was telling

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Speaker 2: us we should do. So it worked out great.

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Speaker 3: So can you describe the club and the speakeasy scene

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Speaker 3: as you were growing up in Detroit?

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Speaker 2: The clubs, well, the Flame Show Bar, which was the

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Speaker 2: main club that all the artists from around the country

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Speaker 2: would come in and perform with performed there, and then

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Speaker 2: we had a lot of little ones that were going on.

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Speaker 2: And my mother, of course, was one of the main

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Speaker 2: attractions at the main club, so she would have to

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Speaker 2: figure out what she's going to do each week, could

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Speaker 2: do the same thing all the time. So each time

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Speaker 2: she'd be practicing and working things out, we would watch

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Speaker 2: her and decide, oh, wow, this is really something. And

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Speaker 2: as we go out to the clubs, as I got older,

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Speaker 2: of course, and went around and I saw artists and

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Speaker 2: things happening, and I can tell whether they really worked

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Speaker 2: on it or not by the way they were handling

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Speaker 2: it on the stage. I could tell how much time

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Speaker 2: to really put into it. I said, Wow, this is amazing.

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Speaker 2: I mean, what she was showing us is what I

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Speaker 2: saw later on in life. It panned out to be

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Speaker 2: absolutely true. All that was all. I took all that

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Speaker 2: into consideration. Are you with me? Yes?

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Speaker 3: And I'm thinking, could your mother have been an A

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Speaker 3: and R person as well?

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Speaker 2: I don't think so, uh. And I say that because

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Speaker 2: when she was coming up, there was no as a

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Speaker 2: as A, as an entertainer and all that, uh in

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Speaker 2: the world of controlling that industry, Blacks were not. They

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Speaker 2: had very little possibilities of making that happen. We put

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Speaker 2: it to you that way. So she dealt dealt with

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Speaker 2: what she could deal with, uh an R and all

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Speaker 2: that was not even in the picture. Just getting recorded

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Speaker 2: and her time was was a huge job. So that's

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Speaker 2: the one I can see that it changed as time

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Speaker 2: went on, and and uh stay the marches and the

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Speaker 2: development between blacks and the industry. He grew a little

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Speaker 2: steps by step at a time. Are you following me? Yes?

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Speaker 3: But she had an ear for what sounded really terrific though,

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Speaker 3: didn't she?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, But those are gifts, I tell everybody. God gives

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Speaker 2: us all gifts, two and three gifts. And her gift

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Speaker 2: was to hear and recognize and those that she heard

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Speaker 2: that could do something, she would talk to him about it.

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Speaker 2: And I, fortunately for me, I have the same gift

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Speaker 2: that she had, And others like a Barry Gordy had

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Speaker 2: gifts and Smokey Robinson has gift. Stevie wond That has gift.

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Speaker 2: This is nothing, This is nothing new. These are the

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Speaker 2: things are given to us by God from the day one.

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Speaker 2: Now what we do with it is depends on who's

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Speaker 2: around us and how we develop it. But you have gifts,

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's just the way it is. We're not

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Speaker 2: here just to be here. We're here for a purpose

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Speaker 2: in my opinion, Please take that from my point of view.

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Speaker 2: And those gifts are given if people around you and

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Speaker 2: recognize that you have something special going on and help

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Speaker 2: you develop that phenomenal. There are people around you that say,

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Speaker 2: what are you doing that for? Why are you doing that? Well,

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Speaker 2: that that's ridiculous. Now, lot of s gifts are being

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Speaker 2: taken away from not taking away, let's say, blocked out.

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Speaker 2: And when people see people around you that care and

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Speaker 2: recognize it and push it, it's a wonderful thing. Mickey.

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Speaker 3: How were you able to stay on the straight and

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Speaker 3: narrow track as you were growing up rather than you know,

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Speaker 3: straight to the dark side of things, which you know

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Speaker 3: can happen to anybody in life.

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't have an absolute answer to that. I

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Speaker 2: do know that. Fortunately for me, some of the people

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Speaker 2: that adults at my time had went through changes and

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Speaker 2: they saw me struggling trying to develop whatever I was

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Speaker 2: working on, they were encouraging. So fortunately I did not

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Speaker 2: lean or work with those who were in a bad

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Speaker 2: position in their own right at that time. I wouldn't.

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Speaker 2: There was not attracting to me. I was weren't looking

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Speaker 2: at people who were developing things and moving along. I

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Speaker 2: wonder how did you do that? How'd you make that happen? Well, oh,

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Speaker 2: that's great, can you show me. I was in that

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Speaker 2: kind of thinking. And that's again part of my mom's training.

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Speaker 2: You know, you don't want to follow something that's getting

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Speaker 2: involved as something that's not working. You see them in

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Speaker 2: a bad place in life. You want to deal with

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Speaker 2: things that are happening that's going in another direction that

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Speaker 2: gives you inspirations, she always say. And I would take

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Speaker 2: time and my brothers we would take time and watch

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Speaker 2: things that were really really happening and say, oh, I

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Speaker 2: wish I could do that, how'd you do that? We

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Speaker 2: was in that kind of a thinking. So now you

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Speaker 2: got to stand back in the day all around us,

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Speaker 2: even in our living area was maybe fourteen fifteen blocks

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Speaker 2: and circumference. You step outside of that line, you got

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Speaker 2: a problem. You only had a certain area to develop

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Speaker 2: in in the first place. You had to make a

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Speaker 2: decision when you step out the line. No, you could

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Speaker 2: write it into a problem, but if you want more information,

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Speaker 2: you got to step outside the line. And not just

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Speaker 2: me Berry Gordy smoking, I can name a few we

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Speaker 2: all did had in our own way, did the same thing,

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Speaker 2: and I would imagine that happened all around the country.

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Speaker 2: So I was just one of those people that went

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Speaker 2: at it. From that point of view.

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Speaker 3: The book tells such great stories. I could visualize every

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Speaker 3: one of them. One in particular, recount that first meeting

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Speaker 3: in the barbershop with the man known as BG, mister

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Speaker 3: Barry Gordy.

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Speaker 2: Yep, Yeah, that was the place, the barbershop, which was then.

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Speaker 2: Remember we I'm tell you now we lived in this

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Speaker 2: so many blocks we had in that area that was

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Speaker 2: it now. Uh So Benny Mullen who had a barbershop there,

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Speaker 2: and and all the artists that would come into the

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Speaker 2: city to perform or and the people that lived there.

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Speaker 2: They wanted to get look better and all that they

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Speaker 2: would go to. Mainly the guys would go to Benny

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Speaker 2: Mullen's barbershop and he only had a few chips in

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Speaker 2: there and a lot of things to keep you occupied

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Speaker 2: so you can stay stay in the seats, and he

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Speaker 2: would lose a customer.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: He had chess games and chest checker games, and he

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Speaker 2: had the phones and he had all that stuff going on,

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Speaker 2: and uh, but he would he made it a point,

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Speaker 2: because that's amazing how God works. He made it a point.

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Speaker 2: Barry Gordy would come in and get his hair done

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Speaker 2: and I would get mine done. So Benny Mullen said

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Speaker 2: to Barry, man, this guy Mickey Stevens, you got to

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Speaker 2: meet him. You know, he's really got a thing going

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Speaker 2: on musically. And then he would tell Barry, I mean

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Speaker 2: tell me the same thing. You know, Barry Gordy would

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Speaker 2: be here in a minute, and I was telling you

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Speaker 2: about him. He's got a great thing going with the recording.

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Speaker 2: He got Jackie Wilson and all that he's producing him

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Speaker 2: and writing, and he said, you guys ought to get

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Speaker 2: together now. He absolutely he's absolutely set that up. And

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Speaker 2: he could make that announcement to others coming into itself

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Speaker 2: so they could stay. So he was. He was pretty good.

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Speaker 2: Thank God for him and so and at one point

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Speaker 2: it absolutely happened. Barry was he only had two box

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Speaker 2: chairs in the whole place. He had Barry in one

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Speaker 2: chair and me and the other. And he said, oh,

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Speaker 2: by the way, now, Mickey Stevenson, this is Barry Gordy Barry,

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Speaker 2: this is the guy was talking about. So Barry Ben

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Speaker 2: had plans of his own. Said to me, man, I

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Speaker 2: heard about you and the things you're doing in the

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Speaker 2: city here with the musicians and all that sort of

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Speaker 2: thing and the writers. And he said, uh, we got

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Speaker 2: to talk. I'll be back in about two or three weeks.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to finish the project on Jackie Wilson his album,

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Speaker 2: and I would like to have a meeting with you,

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Speaker 2: and I'll give you a call and we'll get together.

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Speaker 2: And I was excited about that because I said, man,

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Speaker 2: just the songs you're doing, man, it's incredible. How'd you

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Speaker 2: do that? And by the way, I got a couple

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Speaker 2: for you too, because you can take I was ready

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Speaker 2: to get into his deal. What the forgot that label

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Speaker 2: he was with with my songs and everything? He said, well,

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Speaker 2: I got I got, I got my songs together, they say,

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Speaker 2: but we'll talk because I heard about what you got there,

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Speaker 2: We'll get together. And that was the beginning of the

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Speaker 2: relationship between Barry Gordy and I and uh and really

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Speaker 2: when he came back, I took maybe a couple of

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Speaker 2: months stuff like that. He called me and said, you

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Speaker 2: got to come over to my place for a meeting.

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Speaker 2: And I was really excited because I gathered all my

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Speaker 2: best songs I'm going to take for him to record

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Speaker 2: me with my saws. That's what I was thinking about.

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Speaker 2: He had a whole other idea completely, And with that happening,

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Speaker 2: I get to his place. Is living in an apartment building.

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Speaker 2: We call it ghetto fabulous apartment's buildings. You know where

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Speaker 2: you push the buzzer, and the buzzer with buzz you

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Speaker 2: better grab the door before it closed or you couldn't

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Speaker 2: get it. You gotta start all over again. I'm into

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Speaker 2: his place. I'm walking down the corridor going to his

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Speaker 2: apartment and he's standing there with the phone in his

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Speaker 2: hand and some shorts on, and I'm saying, Wow, I'm

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Speaker 2: looking for us. This is great meeting and a great place.

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Speaker 2: When I get into his place. I'm in his apartment.

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Speaker 2: He said, okay, let me hear your songs. Still got

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Speaker 2: the phone in his hand talking, and uh, I'm looking around.

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Speaker 2: I'm saying, where's the piano or you know, I don't

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Speaker 2: see no piano. I see nothing, none of that kind

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Speaker 2: of stuff. And he says, uh, when you look for

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Speaker 2: I said, well you got a piano. He said, well,

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Speaker 2: I got piano. Got to do it? You sing right,

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Speaker 2: you're right right? I said yeah. He said, okay, well

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Speaker 2: start saying it. So that's that's how we hooked up.

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Speaker 2: And I sang about three or four of my songs.

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Speaker 2: And between him talking on the phone and listening to me,

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Speaker 2: I'm saying, this is a guy. Is he painting a

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Speaker 2: mention here? And when I finished about four songs and so,

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Speaker 2: he said, you got some pretty good stuff there, and

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Speaker 2: I said, and I was impressed. I said, okay, now

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Speaker 2: let me show you the one that's going to be

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Speaker 2: the hit on me. Was my line. I'm still working

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Speaker 2: on me being him producing me. So he said you,

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Speaker 2: he said the song that you He said, I didn't

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Speaker 2: bring you here to produce you. I said, well, well,

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Speaker 2: you said my songs are good. He said yeah, but

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Speaker 2: your voice is for shit, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: So that wasn't too exciting for me. I immediately start

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Speaker 2: collecting by step off the floor, ready to get out

246
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Speaker 2: of here. He said, what you're doing? I said, I

247
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Speaker 2: come to you. I thought you wanted to produce me.

248
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Speaker 2: He said no, no, no, no, no no. I hear what you're doing.

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Speaker 2: I see what you're doing. And I'm starting my own company,

250
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Speaker 2: and I would like for you to be the n

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Speaker 2: R man for my company. And I had no idea

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Speaker 2: what he was talking about, so I said, a man,

253
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Speaker 2: what is the NR man? He said, artist and repertoire.

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Speaker 2: You're going to find the artists, the writers, producers. You're

255
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Speaker 2: going to record the session, so we're gonna make hit

256
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Speaker 2: the records. And I said, wow, oh yeah, now my

257
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Speaker 2: mind's turning you again. I said, if I'm the n

258
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Speaker 2: R man, can I record myself? He said yeah, you

259
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Speaker 2: think it's going to be a hit record. I said,

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Speaker 2: that's now I'm interested in whatever this n R stuff

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Speaker 2: is all about. So I said, old, Kay, who do

262
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Speaker 2: I report to if something goes wrong? Anything? And he

263
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Speaker 2: said you and me, that's it. I said, nobody else.

264
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Speaker 2: He said, no, you and me. I said, okay, uh,

265
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Speaker 2: I said, I said, well, what were you paying for this?

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Speaker 2: He said, you get I think he said five ten

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Speaker 2: dollars a day or something like that, and all that

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Speaker 2: chili you can eat. I said to myself, this guy's crazy.

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Speaker 2: You know what I mean? I said, well, you know,

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Speaker 2: let me let me, let me, let me think about

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Speaker 2: it everything. He said, okay, you know, but to move

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Speaker 2: on with that. I accepted the position because I was

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Speaker 2: going to leave. Matter of fact, I was leaving and

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Speaker 2: I was I was saying to him, I want to

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Speaker 2: think this thing over. I'm trying to figure out how

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Speaker 2: can I make this work for me? Could I get

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Speaker 2: him there? And in my mind because I still get

278
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Speaker 2: him to produce me as an artist, and I'm walking away,

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Speaker 2: and I remember my mom. You want to get into something,

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Speaker 2: you want to make it work, You got to try it.

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Speaker 2: If it's in your vein, if it's where you're coming from,

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Speaker 2: the things you're about, you're going to learn all you can.

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Speaker 2: And those those thoughts were walking in my head work

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Speaker 2: working in my head. I was as I was trying

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Speaker 2: to get out of the place, and then downed on

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Speaker 2: me that what if I got to lose uh. And

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Speaker 2: this is another thing, you know, twenty four hour time,

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Speaker 2: eight hours of the working and I was thinking eight

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Speaker 2: hour was planning, and I said, wait a minit, wait

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Speaker 2: a minute. I turned around. I said, uh, you know, okay,

291
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Speaker 2: I'll work this out with you. I said, when do

292
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Speaker 2: I start? He said, you already started. He had the

293
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Speaker 2: confidence that I was going to take this position. That

294
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Speaker 2: was amazing because he and it brought back the thoughts

295
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Speaker 2: of you know, you around surround yourself with the people

296
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Speaker 2: doing the right things, making things happen, that energy transfers

297
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Speaker 2: to you. It said, you really wanted to get it.

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Speaker 2: Whether it's at your educational program, whether you want to

299
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Speaker 2: be a doctor, lawyer, whatever, whatever it is, you got

300
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Speaker 2: to be in that atmosphere to help make it work

301
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Speaker 2: and your your gifts work. And so I settled with that,

302
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:17,240
Speaker 2: and well, amazingly, here comes Smokey Robinson to his place.

303
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Speaker 2: Smokey's coming down the hall, coming to the door, and

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Speaker 2: he walked up. He told Barry said, man, Mickey seems

305
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Speaker 2: that we said whit Why you got Mickey here? And

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Speaker 2: Barry said, he's going to be the an R man

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Speaker 2: for our company. Now. Bottom line is Smokey and Barry

308
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Speaker 2: had been talking all the time. They already had this

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Speaker 2: plan in motion, not for me, but start this new label.

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Speaker 2: And when uh and so smoking I we knew each other.

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Speaker 2: So Barry said, uh, you knew you know. He said, oh, man, yeah,

312
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Speaker 2: this is great. He said, well he's the n R man.

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Speaker 2: He's smoked. Say, fantastic, Man, I got a session tomorrow

314
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Speaker 2: and such and such a time, and I need another

315
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Speaker 2: drama and blah blah blah. I say, okay, you got it,

316
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Speaker 2: and Barry said he got it. Smokey said, if Mickey

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Speaker 2: said I'm gonna have a drama, I'm gonna have a

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Speaker 2: wrong And uh so, so the smoke you knew about

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Speaker 2: me because we school and all that. We were like

320
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Speaker 2: battling in groups, making making deals with different parties. My

321
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Speaker 2: group would performed, his group would performed, and we were

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Speaker 2: we had a battle going on. So we knew each other,

323
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Speaker 2: and he knew how I operated. If I say I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna do something, I'm gonna do it. And so Barry said, wow,

325
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Speaker 2: I got the right man. That was the beginning of

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Speaker 2: the Motown Motown operation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and what an operation it became. My goodness. Now,

328
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Speaker 3: when Smokey further worked with you. He knew you were

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Speaker 3: a man of your word and that you did everything

330
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Speaker 3: you said you would do even further right.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah. Never stopped. I only

332
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Speaker 2: got wiser, more deeply involved more.

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Speaker 4: Uh.

334
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Speaker 2: And it was a good feeling when I found someone

335
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Speaker 2: with the gift, and I always kept that in my head.

336
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Speaker 2: Now you gotta have the gift. Just say you're a singer.

337
00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:05,280
Speaker 2: There's great words, but that don't mean that you are

338
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Speaker 2: a singer. You may think you are. Are you working?

339
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,960
Speaker 2: Have you worked with it? Are you you know? I

340
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,520
Speaker 2: look for that. Just say you can sing is one word,

341
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:16,720
Speaker 2: let me hear you. Then I say, well, why would

342
00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:18,960
Speaker 2: you sing out a tune like that? Why wouldn't you

343
00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,119
Speaker 2: go with somebody show you how to stay in pitch?

344
00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:25,320
Speaker 2: I would go that way, and you know, just plus

345
00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:26,840
Speaker 2: you heard the record, now you want to say it.

346
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Speaker 2: That's one thing. Development is another. And I would say

347
00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:33,000
Speaker 2: how much time you spend on working on your voice?

348
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,040
Speaker 2: I would say that to people who come to audition

349
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Speaker 2: for me, and I could not help but to say

350
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Speaker 2: those things. And some would say, well I don't do

351
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Speaker 2: that much. I say, well, you better start adding that

352
00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,639
Speaker 2: into your daily routine. That's the only way you're going

353
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,360
Speaker 2: to get better. And I would and I say, come

354
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:50,080
Speaker 2: back after you've done some of that, and let me

355
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Speaker 2: hear you again. Now if I find out you don't

356
00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:53,960
Speaker 2: have a voice at all, you know, I would say,

357
00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,240
Speaker 2: thank you very much, see you next week. I'm done.

358
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,080
Speaker 2: But when people would gifts, and I'm sure you do.

359
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,560
Speaker 2: You've heard this, and you've been around people. You see

360
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:07,240
Speaker 2: gifts there, they're just wonderful. What do a person do

361
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:11,000
Speaker 2: with that gift? And and and and who around them

362
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,880
Speaker 2: encourages them, and who around them that want to pull

363
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:17,679
Speaker 2: them down. That's the battle with talented people in any field,

364
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:22,800
Speaker 2: in my opinion. So with that working I had the

365
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,240
Speaker 2: I was fortunate enough to hear some very talented people

366
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Speaker 2: come in. Some come in as a singer and I said,

367
00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:33,520
Speaker 2: who wrote that song that you're singing? The person said,

368
00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:37,480
Speaker 2: I wrote it. I said, you wrote the song by yourself. Yeah,

369
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Speaker 2: I said, I tell you what. I won't sign you

370
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Speaker 2: as a singer right now, but I will sign you

371
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Speaker 2: as a writer. He said, while you do that, I said,

372
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Speaker 2: because that song is good. You got great potentialism. Your

373
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,800
Speaker 2: voice is okay, but your writing nobility is really special.

374
00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,720
Speaker 2: You want to come in those terms, they said, you'll

375
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,840
Speaker 2: sign you was the right, I said, They said, okay.

376
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:06,320
Speaker 2: So it was a whole thing going there with me.

377
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,800
Speaker 2: Some came in as writers, but they sang better than

378
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,400
Speaker 2: they wrote. I said, well, you know your voice is good,

379
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,080
Speaker 2: but why would you say that song? Won't you find

380
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:19,960
Speaker 2: of the songs? Anyway? And it kept going and I'm talking,

381
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:24,880
Speaker 2: you know, fifteen twenty people every week, sometimes more. And

382
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,720
Speaker 2: because I was on the hunt, I wanted to have

383
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:32,200
Speaker 2: the best that I could get for this company to grow.

384
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:36,159
Speaker 2: And they went on and don't want. And as we

385
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:38,760
Speaker 2: went on, it got better and better, and some of

386
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,280
Speaker 2: the best talent would come in. They would come in

387
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:43,479
Speaker 2: as one way, go out as another. They'd come in

388
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,680
Speaker 2: as singers, be be writers. Some came in as singers

389
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,200
Speaker 2: and writers, which were great.

390
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:56,119
Speaker 3: Tell me about the hysterical story about how Martha Reeves

391
00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:03,120
Speaker 3: became so fixated on UH signing with you, Martha.

392
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 2: I we better at the UH. I think of the

393
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 2: club was called UH. I can't think of it that

394
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:15,200
Speaker 2: neighborhood now, but she she sang in the club UH.

395
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:16,880
Speaker 2: And she walked up to me, and now I told

396
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:18,879
Speaker 2: her when she sang. It was like maybe three or

397
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 2: four acts singing in the club and uh, and I said,

398
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 2: you gotta, you gotta, you got something going here. Why

399
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 2: don't you come by the office let's talk. So she

400
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,200
Speaker 2: uh was excited about it when we came. She came

401
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,679
Speaker 2: to my office. I wouldn't not say an audition, but

402
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 2: I wanted to find out more about her as a person.

403
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 2: And in the meantime, I'm doing three or two or

404
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,399
Speaker 2: three things at the same time, and uh, so I

405
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:49,119
Speaker 2: didn't have a lot of time for her. When she

406
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,680
Speaker 2: showed up and UH said, well, let me get back

407
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,120
Speaker 2: with you later, come back. I would name a day

408
00:22:54,119 --> 00:23:00,360
Speaker 2: something like that. Martha was determined to be with this company.

409
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 2: She would come constantly try to get me to meet

410
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,960
Speaker 2: with what she's doing, her songs and her way of

411
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 2: singing and all that. And what happened was my secretary

412
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 2: was leaving and she saw Martha all the time because Martha,

413
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 2: her and Martha got to be friends. And I come

414
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:27,639
Speaker 2: into my office and one of the days in that

415
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 2: week and there's Martha on my phone and I'm saying

416
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,720
Speaker 2: in my office, I said, what are you doing? She said,

417
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 2: putting the finger just a minute like, she's handling your call,

418
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 2: took the information down with the person. Blah blah blah

419
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 2: blah blah. I said, what you doing on my phone?

420
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:48,639
Speaker 2: She says, well, her friend who was my secretary. She

421
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 2: said she had me coming here because she had a

422
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 2: lot of things going. Now I will allow to help

423
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 2: her out and all that. And I was watching her

424
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 2: talk and I saying, wait a minute, I know my

425
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 2: secretary was leaving. I said, uh, you're pretty good at that.

426
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 2: She said, that's a minute that the call came in again.

427
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 2: She went through the conversation. Yeah, well mister Stevenson would

428
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,119
Speaker 2: do this for you, blah blah blah, give you a number,

429
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 2: put that down. While she's talking to me. Now she's

430
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 2: my secretary of Paul And I said, she said, uh,

431
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 2: I said you know what. Uh my, my girl's leaving.

432
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 2: You know that. She said yeah. She said, I said, okay,

433
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,919
Speaker 2: uh I take it. You want this job? She said absolutely.

434
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 2: She said, I come to be an artist. Though the

435
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 2: sound the lady, I said, hold it the whole about

436
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 2: the signing part. But I said, you're pretty good at

437
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,919
Speaker 2: what you're doing, so we may work something out. Bottom

438
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:41,920
Speaker 2: line is she had had her plan for me and

439
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 2: she but she was very good. Though. She was very good,

440
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 2: and so of course I got around to me recording her.

441
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 2: But she was had no I had no plans of

442
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 2: leaving that building, and she was going to make it

443
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 2: through that building. She was that determined and I like that.

444
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 2: I like that part about her. And when she got

445
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 2: to be my assistant secretary, shall we say? She would

446
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 2: say to me, I don't call me a secretary, called

447
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 2: me your assistant. She didn't like the word secretary. I said, okay.

448
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 2: But when the artist came in, whether it was smoking

449
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 2: or somebody that she admired, all that she would still

450
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,400
Speaker 2: keep the respect of what her position was. Where other

451
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 2: people working around saying, oh my god, it's smoking or

452
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 2: here's so and so, when they get out of the

453
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,239
Speaker 2: job and start getting involved, Martin never did that. She

454
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,719
Speaker 2: stayed kept it business. She kept respect for the position

455
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 2: that she was in. For me, I loved it about her,

456
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 2: and eventually I got around to record her, as you know,

457
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 2: but she had that in her mind as part of

458
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 2: what she wanted to do, and I liked that about her.

459
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 2: At the time that I did record her. We did

460
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 2: the dancing in the Street song when I called her.

461
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 2: She she would never leave the If I stayed till

462
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 2: eleven or twelve o'clock at night, she would stay. I

463
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 2: mean when she came in, she would stay there. And

464
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 2: her deal was, I'll stay here as long as you're here.

465
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 2: I said, wait a minute, she said, hold it, I

466
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 2: don't want to know. You know, I gotta pay pento overtime.

467
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 2: I say, okay, you got a deal.

468
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 3: What a great lesson that is for anybody coming up

469
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 3: the ranks and any business to just be resilient and

470
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 3: steadfast that you're going to get what you want right yeah?

471
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I else you're going to do it. I mean,

472
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 2: it don't work the wise. You got to be lucky

473
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 2: for somebody to have you, and you don't spend the

474
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 2: time and the determination to be what you want to be.

475
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 2: You got to have that. That's important, not only if

476
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,439
Speaker 2: when you get into that position, but to make it grow.

477
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 2: You see, that same feeling and thoughts got to be

478
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,639
Speaker 2: with you. Not just to get the job, whatever the

479
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 2: job is, but if you want to make it happen.

480
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 2: You get the job and you keep that energy and

481
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,119
Speaker 2: that desire to be the best you can be at it,

482
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 2: so it never stops.

483
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,199
Speaker 3: But you were going to get to talk about what

484
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:01,880
Speaker 3: you're working on with your two musicals because you never stopped.

485
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 3: So we will touch upon that.

486
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more of the Taking a

487
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: Walk Podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast.

488
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 3: Can you tell us that beautiful story that would result

489
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 3: in the Four Tops coming to Motown?

490
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 2: Well, that was amazing the Foot Tops when I, uh,

491
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 2: I was, I came home on a furlough and uh,

492
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 2: we have a theater like a poplo like I told you,

493
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 2: was a war Field theater in Detroit and I'm I'm

494
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 2: coming in and I'm going to the theater. I'm a

495
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 2: furlough because I want to, uh have some fun. I

496
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 2: got missed my uniform on and I'm coming in the

497
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 2: place and I'm looking around as see of the best

498
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 2: girls and who I could talk to a lot like

499
00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:00,439
Speaker 2: the soldiers do and do you have? At the theater,

500
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 2: they had an amateur show and they had the movies. Okay,

501
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 2: the amateur show were like the Apollo was going on

502
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 2: and these acts were coming out performing. They were terrible,

503
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 2: and then one or two was reasonable. Then the Four

504
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 2: Tops came on. They were called the Four Aims at

505
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:25,199
Speaker 2: that time, the Four Aims come on and these guys

506
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 2: started singing, and they were doing a combination of jazz

507
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,640
Speaker 2: and R and B all wrapped up in one song.

508
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 2: And it was and they were singing, and LEVI was

509
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 2: taking those notes and taking that was the lead singer

510
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 2: to a whole another level. And I said, man, these

511
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 2: guys are great. They're gonna be stars one day. And

512
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 2: in that process and listening to it, looking at that

513
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 2: and watching them sing, remember what I did with my

514
00:28:53,440 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 2: brothers and Apollo and the determination and all that. I said, Wow,

515
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 2: I was supposed to at that time re enlist in

516
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 2: the in the army where I was at and UH

517
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 2: and I decided right then and there, I'm not going

518
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 2: to stay in the army. I'm going to go deep

519
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 2: into this business that was before Barry and when I so,

520
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 2: I had my mind at it as an artist and

521
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 2: all that. When later on, when I was asked to

522
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 2: come back and resign, you know, sign up to do

523
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 2: some more years, the colonel asked me, man, got you

524
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 2: officers training school and you'll be a great UH officer

525
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 2: for your people. That line didn't lock me out, and

526
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 2: I said, nah, I'm out of here with the army,

527
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 2: and uh, of course I got with Barry and blah

528
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 2: blah blah. That went on. Now years later I mentioned

529
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 2: and Barry said to me one of the jazz label.

530
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 2: And I said, damn jazz label. When in the jazz

531
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 2: label less than fifteen percent of the market. He said,

532
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 2: you there and our man, I said, yeah. He say,

533
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 2: get me a jazz label. I said, okay, okay, okay.

534
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 2: So I said, I got to go to Chicago and

535
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 2: New York whether see what musicians we can you know,

536
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 2: sign up to be on our jazz label. I go

537
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 2: to New York. I'm hunting around all the jazz musicians.

538
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 2: They're very, very very good, but they didn't want to

539
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 2: be locked down into a label. They all played with

540
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 2: each other on different sessions. And you couldn't build a

541
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 2: star in my mind on our line. So I said

542
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 2: to Barry, he said, enough of this, man, I gotta

543
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 2: I gotta do this another way. He said, what's your

544
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 2: game plan? I said, I'm gonna get me like a

545
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 2: Nancy Wilson. Then I've had a jazz musician's play on her.

546
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 2: Now we'll cover the jazz line, but we got an

547
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 2: artist on our label. He said, it's a good idea.

548
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 2: He said, well, how are you gonna do that? I said, well,

549
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 2: I'm going to Chicago for that. So today I'm just

550
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 2: quitting right now, I'm gonna go down in the village

551
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 2: and have himself a little fun and prepare to get

552
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 2: out of here the bar and I'm going to Chicago.

553
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 2: He said. Okay, I'm in the village down in New

554
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 2: York and I'm walking in. Well, I'm enjoy myself and

555
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 2: I'm passing this club and I hear these guys singing.

556
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 2: I'm standing outside. I looked at her under the name

557
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 2: of the Four Tops, and I'm looking at him saying

558
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 2: and I said, wow, those guys are really good. Reminded

559
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 2: me of the group that I heard when in the

560
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 2: in the ed Warfield, and they were singing really good.

561
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 2: So I said, man, these guys are great. I walked

562
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 2: in the club and sure enough it was the same

563
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 2: guy as they had changed their names to the Four Tops,

564
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 2: and I said wow. So I sat down and watched them,

565
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 2: and I told the owner of the club and come over,

566
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 2: and I said this, when they get off the stage,

567
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 2: I would you have them come over, and I want to

568
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 2: talk to him blahlah blah blah blah. He said, sure

569
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 2: you know, and she said who are you. I said,

570
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 2: Mickey Stevens in Motown. Gave him a little history stuff,

571
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 2: and sure enough the show was over. They're part of it.

572
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 2: They were singing now behind Billy Eckstein his backup, but

573
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 2: they were opening act. And I really went down to

574
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 2: see Billy exty. But when I'm standing outside and hearing

575
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 2: his voice, it's this group. I said, this is great. Anyway,

576
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 2: I'm in there. The guy, the owner, tells the Four

577
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 2: Tops about me, and Duke Faker, who was the head

578
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 2: guy with the group, came over. He said, well, who

579
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 2: are you, man, and they heard you wanted to talk

580
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 2: to us. I said, yeah, man, I said I saw

581
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 2: you guys. I said, I see you changed your name

582
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 2: from Ames Brothers because it was a white group, all

583
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 2: the Ames Brothers, I might add, And I said to

584
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 2: now to the Four Tops, I said, but I saw

585
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 2: you in Detroit and I told him when it was

586
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 2: and I sang the song that they did to win

587
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 2: the contest. He was in shock. He said, how'd you

588
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 2: know that song? I said, I heard you guys sing it,

589
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 2: and I thought you were great, and I said to myself,

590
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 2: these guys are going to be stars. And I said,

591
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 2: and I'm in the position to make that happen for you. Now, Duke,

592
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 2: I'm talking like this now. Duke looked at me as

593
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 2: if to say, this guy. Who is this guy? And

594
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,719
Speaker 2: he called over. He said it's Mick Steveson with Motown.

595
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 2: He said Motown Detroit and said, but yo, man, but

596
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 2: y'all just doing that R and B stuff. You know,

597
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 2: we're not R and B singers. I said, we don't

598
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 2: do R and B stuff. We do music. And you're

599
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 2: not just singers. You sing songs of any kind of song.

600
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 2: So you take that one style out of your thoughts

601
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 2: and become an artist who sing songs, and we're a

602
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 2: company who make music. Then we can come together. And

603
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 2: he said, man, you're very determined about this thing. I said,

604
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 2: when you leave this place, you come to Detroit, come home,

605
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 2: come to my office. We'll get together and I'll make

606
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 2: your stars. And he looked at me. He said, man,

607
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 2: I said, before you, before you stop right there, I'll

608
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 2: be back in two weeks. When are you leaving this place?

609
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 2: He said, Well, if you're going to be back in

610
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 2: two weeks, we're gonna come back and see you. About

611
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 2: two weeks later, he's knocking on my door at my

612
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 2: office and my secretary says, this guy is the Duke

613
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 2: Faker for tops are here. I said that bury him

614
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,879
Speaker 2: in and we just houcked up right there then and there,

615
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 2: and uh. I brought out the contracts too. I didn't

616
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 2: waste time with a whole lot of dialogue. I said, man,

617
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 2: you made the best movie of life. And I pulled

618
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 2: out the contracts. I said, now you take these contracts

619
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 2: to your lawyers, to whoever you work with, and get

620
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 2: it straight and come back to sign them. You're on.

621
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 2: And he said, uh, we take them to our lawyer.

622
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,320
Speaker 2: I said, I'll tell you right now, I ain't changing

623
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 2: nothing on the paper. So you and Duke looked at

624
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 2: me and pointed this and said, we're gonna sign this contract.

625
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 2: And I'm holding you responsible for everything you said about

626
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 2: making us stars. I said, you got a dep.

627
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 3: Oh, and everything worked out pretty well.

628
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,359
Speaker 2: I would say, absolutely absolutely. Barry going, he said to me, man,

629
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 2: we got a love group. I said, very this is

630
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 2: not just a group. You're very special. I said, hold it,

631
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 2: am I r man here. He said yeah. I said, okay,

632
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 2: then that's I signed this group. I said, but before

633
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 2: you say anything else, come over to the studio. So,

634
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 2: because I had him in the studio area, we'd talk

635
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,240
Speaker 2: meeting the musicians and everybody. I walked over there with Barry.

636
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:21,359
Speaker 2: I said, okay, uh four talks, leave a sega song.

637
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 2: They said, what kind of song? I say, don't care

638
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 2: what kind they say, just sing a song. When they

639
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 2: started singing, and Leavit started hitting those notes, and the

640
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 2: group was right behind him. All the producers just went

641
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 2: and left the room. And Barry said, wow, man, these

642
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 2: guys are something. I said, Oh, look too of you,

643
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 2: and and and and they all left the room because

644
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 2: each of the producers and writers went to their room,

645
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 2: so they started writing some songs for these guys. Verry

646
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:53,760
Speaker 2: just looked at me and walked away.

647
00:35:55,000 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 3: Now you had some hard and fast rules when you

648
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:05,280
Speaker 3: went into the studio with you know, players and bands

649
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 3: and musicians. What were some of your rules of discipline

650
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 3: that needed to occur when you had a studio session.

651
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,320
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, you can't bring anybody with you,

652
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 2: no friends and all that kind of stuff. Each person

653
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 2: knew exactly where their position was. If I had two

654
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 2: guitar players. Most of the time, I had two. One

655
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 2: was rhythm, one was lead all your chords and stuff

656
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 2: for your songs that you're dealing with. But when the writers'

657
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,320
Speaker 2: producers bring their music in and I had people work

658
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 2: with them, so these things are written out so we

659
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 2: don't guess at nothing. And if you, like do want

660
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 2: to make a change, you can make a change while

661
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 2: you're running it down. And so everybody had to have

662
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 2: the pencils that had keep it in order. If you're

663
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 2: producing a song or writing a song, I didn't want

664
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 2: anybody changing your stuff because you spent time to develop

665
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 2: it like it is. So bottom line is all my

666
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 2: musicians had to be able to read. That's number one.

667
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 2: And when they came in and I picked them one

668
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 2: at a time, I mean each every musician was in

669
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 2: there as individuals. They wanted to be great at their day.

670
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 2: You take people like that together, you really got yourself

671
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 2: a unique sound. So each one of these musicians at

672
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 2: the Funk Brothers we call them, each one of them

673
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:24,879
Speaker 2: wanted to be great at what they did on their

674
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 2: instrument period, and so when they all had the same

675
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 2: calling as they came together, they only got better.

676
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 3: So I'm going to mention some of the great artists

677
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 3: from Motown and get your reaction to this amazing roster

678
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 3: that shaped music history. First person is Stevie wonder Ah.

679
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 2: That was a gift from heaven. I was singing with

680
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:57,240
Speaker 2: Clarence Paul. Clarence Paul and I were like the Sam

681
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 2: and Dave shall we say in Michigan and what class was?

682
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 2: It was incredible blues singer.

683
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 3: Me.

684
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 2: I'm in a whole nother world of my mom singing,

685
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 2: popping jazz and all that. So he got me singing

686
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 2: with him and we sang around the country. Idawore Michigan

687
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 2: and all that. We do clubs and that was my

688
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 2: income was working with Clarence when I took the job.

689
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 2: As in Motown, we're doing well recording product and coming

690
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 2: out with the hit records. I hated the albums because

691
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,280
Speaker 2: they were not They was just one of two songs

692
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,800
Speaker 2: on there and nothing else was happening. So I told Barry,

693
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 2: this is not working for me. We got to have

694
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 2: good songs in the album, not just songs just because

695
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:41,359
Speaker 2: we got to hit. He said, Okay, that's your job,

696
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:45,839
Speaker 2: you figure it out. So I hired Clarence to work

697
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:49,760
Speaker 2: with me in Motown to check on all the albums

698
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 2: that were coming out. His job was to make sure

699
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 2: the songs are really on the one in there. It

700
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 2: was first release and second release in the album. Now

701
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 2: the other songs got to sound as good, not stuffed.

702
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 2: Was worked on and thrown away, and I just stick

703
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 2: it in the album. Uh uh, the album's got to

704
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 2: be good. That was his job, and I'm saying it

705
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 2: to say how we got to the cebe Winder. At

706
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 2: a certain point, Clarence after about a year year and

707
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 2: a half, Clans said, man, can I produce some of

708
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 2: the main artists? I said, Clams, I can't take Smoky

709
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 2: off of the Temptations, And I hollered on Doors away

710
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 2: from Supremes and put you on. It don't work like that.

711
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 2: These guys are coming up with hip product. I said,

712
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 2: off time some artists for you to work with. He said, okay, man,

713
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 2: he said, but let me tell you. I found this kid,

714
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 2: like to bring him in and do some work with him.

715
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 2: And because I'm saying to myself, I gotta let Clarence

716
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 2: go because I can't change my roster here. But this

717
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 2: is an opportunity for him, so he can let himself

718
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:50,760
Speaker 2: go take me off the hook. So I said, okay,

719
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 2: why don't you let me hear what you're talking about.

720
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 2: He said, well, one more thing, man, He said, he's

721
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,839
Speaker 2: about eleven years old. I said, hol to Clarence, you're

722
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,439
Speaker 2: bringing an eleven year old kid in here? He said,

723
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 2: Mickey Stevenson, your words, your bond, and you say I

724
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 2: can do it. So this is what I want to

725
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:07,319
Speaker 2: do it with eleven year old kid? Can I bring

726
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 2: you in and work something out so you can listen

727
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:12,439
Speaker 2: to her? I said, okay, man, do that. He said

728
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 2: one more thing. I said, what's that? He said, he's blind.

729
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 2: I said, class Paul, have you lost your mind? You're

730
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 2: gonna bring a eleven year old kid and you're blind

731
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,919
Speaker 2: and co produce. I said, okay, you can bring him.

732
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:26,919
Speaker 2: Every time I see that kid, I want to see

733
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 2: you hand in the hand if he falls down the

734
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 2: stairs or do something. Barry Gordy's gonna kill me and

735
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:37,320
Speaker 2: I'm gonna kill you. So he said. He said okay.

736
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:42,320
Speaker 2: So two weeks later, Clance comes in and he brings

737
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 2: Stevie with him. The sessions about the clothes, so, uh,

738
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 2: let me see musicians kind of wrapping up. Clans takes

739
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:53,879
Speaker 2: Stevie over to the drummer and give Benny Benjamin a HNT.

740
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,359
Speaker 2: Benny got up and Clans set Stevie down on the drum.

741
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 2: Stevie pushed his hands around, touched all the drums and

742
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 2: the symbols. Now the band is still kind of pop.

743
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 2: He's still cut in his pocket. Stevie jumps right in

744
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 2: on the leg. Then he makes a run cook, I'm

745
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 2: in shot. Everybody else look. Stevie gets off the drums.

746
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 2: Benny Benjamin says, back down the drum. Not the band

747
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 2: is cooking up again. Class Paul takes Stevie over to

748
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 2: the organ. The organ player gets up. Stevie feels the

749
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 2: organ and he's right into the pocket with organs.

750
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 1: Up.

751
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,320
Speaker 2: Class takes him off the organ. Earl band black sits

752
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 2: back down. Organ in shot. So now he's cooking. All

753
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 2: of a sudden, the sound that they were closing down

754
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 2: with is lifting up in the space, and then the

755
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 2: groove is cooking. They're all amazed at this kid, but

756
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 2: they're loving what the feeling is that he's giving them.

757
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 2: Stevie goes over to the microphone as got him, pulls

758
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 2: the mic. Stevie takes the harmonica out of his pocket

759
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 2: and starts blunting. Now the groove is cooking, and steven

760
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 2: Man puts the harmonica back in his pocket and starts singing,

761
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 2: Oh baby, why don't want you? Why don't haunt it?

762
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 2: The band is cooking like a big dog, and he's

763
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 2: singing words coming out of his mouth, but you can

764
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 2: hear the tone of his voice. I left the studio

765
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,399
Speaker 2: with the office, told him to call a lawyer friend

766
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,800
Speaker 2: of mine and ask him what is the deal signing

767
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 2: a kid eleven years old? Blah blah blah blah blah.

768
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 2: He gave me the information. What I had to do,

769
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 2: I legally. Now they're still in the studio. I go

770
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 2: over to Berry's office. I said, b g on, sign

771
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 2: this kid. We got over here. He's uh. He said, well,

772
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:52,439
Speaker 2: keep saying anybody you want to just your job. I said,

773
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 2: wait minute, it's a little bit different. He said, what's that.

774
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 2: I say, he's about ten, eleven years old. He said

775
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 2: what I say, Wait a minute, and he's blind. Barry

776
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:06,439
Speaker 2: said you crazy, I said, I said no. I said,

777
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 2: I have never seen gifts like this before. Now you know,

778
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 2: we all got gifts out here, but he's got some

779
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 2: special gifts and I want to sign him. I said,

780
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 2: hold it, before you say a thing I was. I

781
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 2: already called the lawyer and found out what the things

782
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 2: we had to do. When you take on the kid

783
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 2: like that, you got to have make sure that he

784
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:24,919
Speaker 2: gets some schooling. You got to have people first with him.

785
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 2: He got somebody to schoolwork. Uh, that's responsible for that

786
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 2: and uh and we got to pay for that and

787
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 2: all that. He said, you know what you're saying. I said,

788
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 2: I know exactly what I'm saying. I said, am I

789
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 2: the n R man here? He said yeah. I said,

790
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 2: then I want to sign this kid. It's as simple

791
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 2: as that. He said, okay, I'm holding you responsible for

792
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,439
Speaker 2: I said, okay, that's my job. I'm responsible. I said,

793
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 2: come on, come on. He say what I said, I

794
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 2: want you to see what I'm talking. He comes over

795
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 2: to the studio and Stevie's stealing a little bit of

796
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 2: his musical thing like that, and he said, wow. I said,

797
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 2: now this guy is going to be phenomenal. We just

798
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,359
Speaker 2: got to stay with him. That's how Stevie got there,

799
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:09,399
Speaker 2: and we stayed with him. And everything that he said

800
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 2: he could do or I heard he could do. He did,

801
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 2: and those are gifts that are amazing. And I made

802
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:20,720
Speaker 2: sure that nobody interfered with that and he took off.

803
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 2: Oh that's a beautiful story.

804
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:28,439
Speaker 3: Wow, what I mentioned, Diana Ross, What do you think

805
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 3: about when I mentioned her name?

806
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 2: The same thing? Special gifts? Uh uh? And she she

807
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:39,799
Speaker 2: was determined and that that idea of working, you know,

808
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 2: like four or five hours blah blah blah. She would

809
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,399
Speaker 2: spend more time than that. Well, we had the artist

810
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,920
Speaker 2: development area where you know, you had to come in

811
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 2: get your once you had a song, like how you

812
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 2: gonna perform it? I is it gonna look on stage?

813
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:54,800
Speaker 2: And I got that from my mom just don't stand

814
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,359
Speaker 2: there and saying unless you're gonna sang opera, you better

815
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 2: do something else. So we had a we call an

816
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 2: artist development area where we had teachers would show you

817
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 2: how to perform with your with the microphone and you know,

818
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 2: make yourself LuSE it. Just don't standing for the microphone

819
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 2: to say so, we had dance routines and all that.

820
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:15,799
Speaker 1: Nine.

821
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:19,400
Speaker 2: That was the kind of artist that was determined. She

822
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 2: would even come into the rehearsal area we're working out

823
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 2: the choreography, and she would stay. I mean she only

824
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 2: only had like an hour or two in there, she'd

825
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 2: stay as long as she could. She had a whole

826
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 2: determination of being as good as she could possibly be,

827
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 2: no matter what. And if someone else was late, she

828
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 2: would say, can I take that time? Absolutely? I mean

829
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 2: she had a whole nother direction. But like like my

830
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:50,240
Speaker 2: back to my mom's teaching, as many as many hours

831
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 2: as you could spend on your gift or your talent,

832
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 2: that that would pay off. The less you spend, it's

833
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 2: going to hit a wall.

834
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:01,399
Speaker 3: More great lessons. How about Marvin Gay?

835
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 2: Marvin was a whole nother case. I heard Marvin Gay

836
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:10,800
Speaker 2: singing and I said, oh, I love his voice. I

837
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 2: didn't like his songs, but I love his voice. So, uh,

838
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 2: I told Barry. I said, okay, I'll do something. He said,

839
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 2: what do you mean something. I said, I'm gonna get

840
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 2: some hits on me. He said, you're gonna get some

841
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:26,360
Speaker 2: hits on him. I said yeah. He said, uh, okay,

842
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:29,360
Speaker 2: you're gonna what's the deal. I said, what do you

843
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 2: want the deal to be? He said, well, uh, it's

844
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 2: five hundred dollars bet like we do. I said, no, no, no, no, no, no.

845
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 2: A thousand on this one. He said a thousand where

846
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 2: I said, man, I gotta change this guy's mind. He's

847
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 2: standing to looking like Andy Williams. I got to change

848
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:48,240
Speaker 2: his thinking. I love his voice and he's creative. I said,

849
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 2: it's gonna take some time, and I'm gonna make it.

850
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 2: You're gonna make that apple? I said, yeah, but the

851
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 2: BET's a thousand dollars. Now what's the deal? He said,

852
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,839
Speaker 2: you got a bet? He said, okay. Now I'm we're

853
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:00,840
Speaker 2: talking like this, and Marbin right on the side of it.

854
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 2: He can hear this conversation. So we Berry left and

855
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 2: Barbara walked. He said, I what is this. What's the

856
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 2: plan you got to do with me? I said, hey, man,

857
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 2: first of all, let's become friends. So let's get to

858
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 2: know each other, he said. He said, how are you

859
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 2: gonna probably gonna make that? Cause he's kind of pissed off,

860
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,720
Speaker 2: you know. He said, how you gonna make that happen?

861
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 2: I said, I see you write songs. He said, yeah,

862
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 2: I sid well, we write some songs together. He said,

863
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 2: you write some songs with me. I said, sure, you

864
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:33,440
Speaker 2: got gifts man. He said, okay, then you want to

865
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 2: get to know each other. He said, okay, because he

866
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:38,319
Speaker 2: was surprised that I said that. But I really admit

867
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 2: that because I saw some of his writing, so I said,

868
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:43,320
Speaker 2: I said, oh yes. So we started writing songs together.

869
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 2: And then we were writing songs I tell him before

870
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 2: maybe the contours or something like that. So we be

871
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 2: writing a song. So I would sing a line and uh,

872
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:53,919
Speaker 2: you know, oh baby, why don't you come back? Whatever

873
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 2: I'm doing? And then he would say why don't you

874
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 2: I said, no, no, no, no, no, no, you can't go

875
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 2: that way. You got to sing a I'm singing that

876
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 2: go to church. So I said, I singing my line,

877
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:05,800
Speaker 2: oh baby, why don't you come back? And he said,

878
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 2: oh baby, why don't you come back? I said, That's

879
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 2: what I'm talking about now, I said. We kept we

880
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 2: do the lines. I do my lines, he do his line.

881
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 2: So we worked out about two or three songs, and

882
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 2: each time I slipped back to the same one. That

883
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 2: make it better. So I go to my place and

884
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 2: I take a razor and I splice out all of

885
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 2: my lines and tape all of his together. You know,

886
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:30,440
Speaker 2: in those days, you have to take a corder, you know,

887
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 2: to take a little razor and you cut down you

888
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 2: can take the table out. Remember that, yep, yep, yep.

889
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 2: So put all his lines together. So I came to

890
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 2: the office and called him me and I said, come

891
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:44,359
Speaker 2: on with you. Hear something. He said, what's that? I

892
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 2: played the song and all of his lines consistently, consistently

893
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 2: staying in order and very so for He said, wow, man,

894
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 2: how'd you do that? I said, I cut all minds out,

895
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 2: put all yours together. I said, now do me a favor.

896
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:01,239
Speaker 2: Why don't you sing this song and take me off

897
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 2: the hook with Berry and then I'll do the jazz

898
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,319
Speaker 2: album on you. He said, you do a jazz album.

899
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:08,320
Speaker 2: Of course, you know I come from jazz. Ain't no

900
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 2: a big deal, I said, But I got to get

901
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 2: off the hook with Berry with shoot. So he said, okay,

902
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 2: I said, not anything that don't sound right. In those days,

903
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 2: you can put the earphones on. I could be in

904
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 2: the studio and I can sing it. You could hear

905
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 2: me while you're out recording. You know, you fol what

906
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 2: I'm saying. Yep, I said, anything that don't work right,

907
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 2: I'll say sing it to you. You can sing the

908
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 2: same thing I'm doing. You got a better voice. And

909
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 2: me said, it's gonna sound better automatically, but you'll know

910
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 2: where we're going. He said, okay. So we were in

911
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 2: the studio and we did just that. I think I

912
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 2: made maybe two stopped. I sang it where he to

913
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:42,360
Speaker 2: go go back, and then he'll do it better. But

914
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 2: after that he didn't need me because he got the

915
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 2: whole thing in his head. He finished it, and so

916
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 2: I got the record. Barry's coming down. How you doing

917
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 2: with the barbigade? I said, how am I doing? Give

918
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:55,720
Speaker 2: my a foud dollars? He said to you, what you're crazy?

919
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,400
Speaker 2: I ain't heard nothing. I said, here, take this demo

920
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:01,799
Speaker 2: back to the office. I'll wait right here. He said,

921
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 2: are you Are you sure? I said, just take it

922
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:07,359
Speaker 2: back to your office. He turned around, went back over

923
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 2: stairs to his office, came back downstairs about five minutes later,

924
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 2: opened his pocket and the wallet, took out the thousand

925
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 2: dollars and gave it to me. How did you do that?

926
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 2: I said, you don't want to know. Oh that's great,

927
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 2: Oh man.

928
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:26,919
Speaker 3: Mickey, Let's talk about what you're working on now, and

929
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:30,880
Speaker 3: I want to know where you get all your energy

930
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 3: from as well. But tell me about your two projects

931
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,440
Speaker 3: that you're so passionate about that you're working on right now.

932
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 2: Oh man, this wonder a wonderful wonderul I'm doing the

933
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:45,400
Speaker 2: singing from the heart. I took Billie Holiday, Josephine Baker

934
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:49,320
Speaker 2: Diner watching him Hey Jackson, Bessie Smith, Dorothy Dandridge or

935
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 2: the Kid, and Lena Horn. These women made history at

936
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:57,800
Speaker 2: a time where it was unbelievable, you know, the prejudice,

937
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 2: garbage going on, all that kind of stuff. But they

938
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 2: still became great artists. And I put them together so

939
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 2: they can kind of tell their stories in music and

940
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:13,359
Speaker 2: sing it from the heart. And I have a young

941
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 2: girl who was learning, studying to be an actress artist,

942
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 2: and she has to find out she was going to

943
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 2: She auditioned it and it got the part, but one

944
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 2: of these ladies, But she don't know the history of them.

945
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:30,920
Speaker 2: She could just do the part because of the writing

946
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 2: of the script, but she's got to put the feeling

947
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:38,359
Speaker 2: in it. And so her boyfriend tells her, why don't

948
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 2: you get your computer and look up these ladies which

949
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 2: whatever you want to be, and study them because they

950
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 2: went through some changes. It didn't just happen. You want

951
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:52,919
Speaker 2: to know what that's all about. And he's a white boy,

952
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:56,399
Speaker 2: she's black of Corse, and she says to him, how

953
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:59,520
Speaker 2: you know about these ladies? She said, my mother was

954
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 2: in crazy in love with Billy Holly. She knew we

955
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 2: call a lady, she knew all. I had to listen

956
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 2: to that stuff all of while I was growing up,

957
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:11,319
Speaker 2: so I knew them because of my mom. And so

958
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 2: of course the young girl took it, and she starts studying.

959
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 2: In the process of studying, of course, she'd go to

960
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 2: a whole another trance and she would meet these ladies

961
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 2: one at a time as they told their stories in

962
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:27,280
Speaker 2: the history. It is an incredible story and the songs

963
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 2: that they did and why and how, and it gave

964
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 2: her knowledge and information. So when she went back to

965
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:37,840
Speaker 2: audition for the part, she had more than just words

966
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 2: to say. She had feeling in the whole nine yards.

967
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 2: So that's what the show is about. So I'm bringing

968
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 2: you to the history, and whatever you do again, you

969
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 2: got to come from the heart. Just to do it

970
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:51,320
Speaker 2: means nothing. When you bring it from the heart, it

971
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 2: encloses and brings in everything. And that's what that show

972
00:52:55,600 --> 00:53:00,040
Speaker 2: was about. And singing from the heart tremendous, tremendous and

973
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:04,400
Speaker 2: the other piece which is special is I was given

974
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 2: the rights to do the Azusa Revival where the Holy

975
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:10,840
Speaker 2: Spirit came down in nineteen oh six in Los Angeles

976
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 2: on Azusa Street and William Seawall, Black Minister was in

977
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:20,719
Speaker 2: charge of the church there and his term at that

978
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:24,800
Speaker 2: place where the Holy Spirit came in and had people

979
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:30,600
Speaker 2: being healed by the thousands. And as they came in

980
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 2: to his area, they walked into this we called your

981
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:37,279
Speaker 2: counter glory vibe, and he came in. They came in

982
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:41,279
Speaker 2: and the blind began to see, the lane began to walk.

983
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:42,719
Speaker 2: They got to the point that they would get out

984
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:44,920
Speaker 2: of the crutches. The moment they got in the feeling

985
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 2: of that space, they would get out of their crutches,

986
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:53,279
Speaker 2: moved the wheelchairs. Unbelievable. And it went on. It's the

987
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 2: Pentecostals we call them. And they went from a few

988
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:01,759
Speaker 2: Pentecostals to so many million of them today and all

989
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 2: over the world. And what they would do is that

990
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:06,680
Speaker 2: I kept growing. Is once you came in and you

991
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:10,279
Speaker 2: couldn't see, and now when you leave, you go back

992
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 2: home and you can see. Somebody will know how that happened.

993
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:17,279
Speaker 2: You tell them, So they go though, something came in

994
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 2: a wheelchairs and you come back walking. They come people

995
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:23,880
Speaker 2: see that you can't deny that the person is walking right,

996
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:27,239
Speaker 2: they would go in. So it kept growing up every race,

997
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:30,719
Speaker 2: creed and color and look it up. A Zusa revivle

998
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 2: called the computer. I didn't make it up. And I

999
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 2: was called by the Japanese who owned that area. That

1000
00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 2: was they owned most of the property in that area,

1001
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 2: and they were somebody in my pentecostles as well. The

1002
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 2: ministers called me in one day and asked me, Uh,

1003
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:47,839
Speaker 2: they've got something they want me to take a look at.

1004
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 2: And when they brought me in, they explained what it

1005
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 2: was all about, and uh, they said, we'd like to

1006
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 2: bring this moment back. And then doing that, I'm in shock.

1007
00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 2: Mind you, I had no idea what they were talk

1008
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 2: talking about. As they explained it to me, and I

1009
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:04,400
Speaker 2: looked at read the books and the whole nine yards.

1010
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 2: I had to go back to church and find out

1011
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:11,520
Speaker 2: from through the ministers, is this really it happened in

1012
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 2: the upper room with Christ. This was another time here

1013
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 2: on Zusa Street. And I actually went back and got

1014
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:20,640
Speaker 2: rebaptized because I wanted to speak in talks, because that

1015
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 2: was just taking me to a whole other level. When

1016
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 2: I got it all together, I went back to the

1017
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 2: Japanese said for a meeting, and I said, okay, I

1018
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 2: will do this. They said, how are you going to

1019
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:30,920
Speaker 2: handle this? I say, I'm gonna turn it into a

1020
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:34,319
Speaker 2: musical because with the music, I can bring people into

1021
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 2: the theater then they can get the real story. They said, great. Perfect.

1022
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:41,439
Speaker 2: I said to them, why did you call me? We're

1023
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 2: in Hollywood, you were in California. You got the best writers,

1024
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:47,920
Speaker 2: producers and directors in the world here. Why me? And

1025
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 2: they said to me, we saw what you did with

1026
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 2: Motown and all the people you work with Afnemotown and

1027
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 2: everything you've learned to do was for this reason took

1028
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 2: my breath away. So that's how we got to a ZEUSA,

1029
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:05,160
Speaker 2: which I'm working with as we speak.

1030
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:10,279
Speaker 4: Oh, Mickey, Nicky, Oh, I want to I want to

1031
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 4: wish you well on those projects. And I just have

1032
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 4: to tell you when I think of this podcast, I'm

1033
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:23,719
Speaker 4: so grateful for it every day, but I really hit

1034
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 4: the jackpot talking to you, Mickey Stevenson, and I'm so

1035
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 4: blessed and so grateful and just I love talking to you.

1036
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:35,920
Speaker 2: Oh, manre preasure talking with you man. You know, I

1037
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:39,320
Speaker 2: like to stay you know, as really realistic as possible.

1038
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:42,279
Speaker 2: Somebody may sound like, wow, I got that happen, and

1039
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:44,960
Speaker 2: I say, it happened because there's these are gifts that

1040
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:47,239
Speaker 2: God gives us, and if we recognize that and work

1041
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 2: with them, I mean, we cannot lose, but we can win.

1042
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:54,400
Speaker 2: And some of us can win greatly because we help others.

1043
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:57,320
Speaker 2: I mean, that's what makes it work even more important.

1044
00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 3: Oh, you're so special. I'm so appreciative, Micky, Thank you

1045
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 3: so much.

1046
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:03,359
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.

1047
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:06,719
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a

1048
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:10,640
Speaker 1: Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends

1049
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:14,200
Speaker 1: and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking

1050
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 1: a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1051
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 1: and wherever you get your podcasts