WEBVTT - Is Elon’s Political Capital Spent? 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:08.559 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Let me tell you 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:09.520 we have a new star. 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:14.680 A star is born Elon mars Juthan Kennemy. 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:18.520 He is the Thomas Edison plus plus plus of our age. 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:21.040 Probably his whole life is from a position of insecurity. 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:23.200 I feel for the guy. I would say ninety eight 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:26.560 percent really appreciate what he does. But those two percent 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:29.840 that are nasty, they are I'll pay in four post. 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:32.280 We were meant for great things in the United States 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:36.400 of America, and Elon reminds us of that we don't 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:46.840 have a fourth branch of governments called Elon Musk. Welcome 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:50.680 to Elon Ink, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. It's Tuesday, 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:55.520 June third. I'm your host, David Papadopolis. So Elon got 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:58.800 his farewell from the President last week. Today it's about 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:02.600 a man named Elon and he's one of the greatest 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:07.000 business leaders and innovators the world has ever produced. And 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:10.320 he is now sort of kind of back with his 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:14.440 company's twenty four to seven so right on c Reports 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:18.360 emerged of him raising billions of dollars from investors, making 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:22.640 babies and apparently, according to the New York Times doing 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:26.160 Lots and lots of drugs. To talk about Elon's big 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:28.039 week back in business. I'm sitting here with two of 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:31.600 our stalwarts, Sarah Friar, team leader for Big Tech coverge 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:36.440 here at Bloomberg Sarah, Hello, Hello, And Max Chafkin BusinessWeek 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:37.479 superstar Max. 0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:39.520 Hello, Hey, David, Hey Sarah. 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:41.440 Max. I saw the other day that your Mets are 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:42.400 winning baseball games. 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:43.920 Oh my god, I'm so happy. 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:46.080 That explains a smile. 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:48.040 Yeah, yeah, they're They're looking great. 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:53.040 Okay, nice, And you know, Elon may be leaving DC 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:56.720 behind Max, but the story keeps following him. Just one 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:59.200 day after that big sendoff in the Oval Office, Trump 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:03.240 abruptly pulled the NASA nomination. A Musk business associate and 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:07.040 close allied, Jared Isaacman to me, it is exhibit a 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:10.360 of the defeat of Elon Musk and Washington and illustrates 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:13.960 the greatly diminished state he's left it in. I suspect 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:16.440 I will get some pushback on this point though, from 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:20.400 Max and Sarah. We'll start, though, with the drug allegations, 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:26.040 the money and the babies. Max. The New York Times 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:31.320 splashed a big report last week on Elon's drug use, 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:33.679 including ketamine. Give us some of the details. 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:36.840 Yeah, and we should say Elon Musk has now denied 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:37.520 this report. 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:39.760 Denied it repeatedly, repeatedly. 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:42.280 I think he said the Times is making stuff up. 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:46.240 The Times that stood by it. The report gives you 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:52.239 a portrait essentially of Musk's behavior over the last year 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:57.880 and connects it to what sources are describing to The 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:01.919 Times as fairly extensive drug use. 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:03.920 Now, we of course knew. 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:07.400 That Elon Musk has smoked pot. We know that he's 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:08.359 used ketamine. 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:11.280 The I mean, he's admitted to the ketamine use in 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:11.720 the past. 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:14.959 Yerescribed I think anyone. 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:17.880 They are parts of this report suggesting, for instance, he'd 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:21.079 use some party drugs on various occasions that I don't 0:03:21.080 --> 0:03:25.040 think was super surprising. But the most significant thing in 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:27.880 this story on drug use is that Elon Musk was 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:33.120 telling associates that he had what sounds like a was 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:36.640 using ketamine pretty heavily, and that he was using, in 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:40.560 fact so heavily that he was experiencing some side effects, 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:43.960 including bladder proms, which is one of the one of 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:47.640 the common side effects from ketamine use. So that was 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:50.600 in the story But then the other thing that is 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:55.040 maybe more troubling was sort of a suggestion that his 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:58.800 behavior that he was sort of using ketamine, using these 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:02.280 drugs all trying to run his companies while trying to 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:05.320 run the US government, and that he was impaired. And 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:07.960 I'd say in that way, it was kind of the 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:11.560 most serious allegations that we've seen about his drug use 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:11.960 to date. 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:14.440 That said, there was not like, I don't know if 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:16.200 I missed it in the story, but there was not 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:19.960 like a specific instance of you know, we know Musk 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:22.839 was on drugs when he did this thing. 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:25.680 That's correct, Sarah, You are right. I mean, there's at 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:28.039 some point they put, you know, a couple of things 0:04:28.040 --> 0:04:31.520 side by side, the drug use next to his odd 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:35.000 behavior at that campaign event in Pennsylvania, which he was 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:37.480 jumping around on stage, But at no point, you are right, 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:40.720 do they say in the story that he was acting 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:42.520 this way on this day because of drugs. 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:45.120 It's a portrait of a guy who seems to the 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:47.560 outside world to be out of control in a whole 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:51.360 bunch of ways, with reporting that suggests that the same 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:55.960 time he was behaving erratically, he was talking to people. 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:58.480 About using drugs. Fairly heavily. 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:00.640 Now we should say a lot of the these drugs 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:03.920 in the Time story are not illegal drugs, right Ketamine 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:06.240 Musk has said he's using under a prescription. Now, of 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:08.520 course you could have a prescription from ketamine and still 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:12.720 be abusing it. The Times mentions this daily pill box 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:16.360 containing some adderall. Now, of course a lot of people 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:20.120 take adderall to manage you know, adult ADHD or whatever. 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:23.799 So so none of this on its own, I think 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:27.480 would be that concerning if you're like an investor or 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:29.800 even a close friend of Elon Musk. But it's the 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:34.440 kind of just juxtaposition that that Sarah's bringing up that raises. 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:37.080 Question, And I think the piece says that there was 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:40.880 at some point this blurry line between what was medically 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:43.400 prescribed and what was just recreational use. 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:45.919 There was one one other note in the story that 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:48.800 I found really interesting, which is that SpaceX, as a 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:54.520 government contractor, has to run a drug free workplace, and 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:58.960 there was sourcing in the story that Musk is getting 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:04.080 heads up on those drug tests before they happen so 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:06.120 that he can more easily pass them. So that was 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:09.760 another detail besides the bladder detail. The twenty pills in 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:16.359 the pillbox detail that built a picture of ways in 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:20.640 which this is becoming more routine for him, more integrated 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:24.560 with his every day and like well known to his associates. 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:26.160 I just want to say on that point, the Times 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:29.120 did reach out to SpaceX and SpaceX did not respond. 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:31.360 When are the Times seeking comment? 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:31.600 Yeah? 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:33.880 And I guess the other thing there is that fact 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:37.160 is important because Musk has repeatedly said that he's, you know, 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:40.280 drug tested continuously. He's tested clean continuously. 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:43.719 And Kristin grind who who authored this one of the 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:46.279 authors on this story. She also wrote the book on 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:51.000 Tony Shea, who, as as is well known now died 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:55.400 of an overdose and her book goes deeply into the 0:06:55.480 --> 0:07:01.880 history of ketamine abuse by that CEO of zaz And 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:05.720 and his escalation into other drugs and how it how 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:08.480 it changed thinking and and so one thing I've learned 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:14.320 from from that is the side effects include a lot 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:18.400 of amnesia, a lot of of distortion of reality, a 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:21.920 lot of confusion over what has happened, a lot of 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:27.640 paranoia is common in ketamine abuse. So I think that 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:32.960 that maybe why there was a lot of juxtaposition with 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:35.800 with scenes in this story of Musk, you know, either 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:40.600 attacking people or concerned about his companies, or having different 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:45.000 versions of the same reality. And I think the most 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:46.600 striking thing to me that was news to me I 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:49.520 didn't I didn't hear about with Tony say, but the 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:53.680 bladder issues just seem so painful. And what I was 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:57.000 reading the medical literature on that looks like irreversible if 0:07:57.000 --> 0:07:59.080 it gets to that point. 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:00.320 No, irreversible doesn't sound good. 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:03.640 There was a whole other dimension in this story that 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:06.320 that kind of pertains to this because it's again sort 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:09.040 of more behavior that seems kind of erratic. And it 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:12.480 was about Elon Musk's love life, right, about Musk saying 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:13.960 different things to different women. 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:14.280 Right. 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:17.400 So Grimes believe for a time that she was in 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:19.760 a monogamous relationship with Elon Musk. 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:20.520 Mistake. 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:25.720 Ashley Sinclair also believed that she was in a monogamous 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:28.280 relationship with Elon Musk. According to her, we also got 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:31.680 some detail on the terms of the settlement. 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:33.640 At It was a lot of money her in order 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:35.960 to keep it sifteen million dollars up front and one 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:39.240 hundred thousand dollars per month. According to documents that the 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:43.520 time says it saw and Ashley Saint Clair said, nograsias, 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:45.920 and she said, I will no, I will see you. 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:47.719 I believe in court. They are in court now. 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:48.200 Yeah. 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:50.880 And one thing, I mean, look, this is kind of 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:53.680 a side alley or whatever. Maybe this is not the 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:56.400 most important thing in this story, but it really did 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:59.920 raise a question of how sincere he is in his 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:04.760 pro natalism versus is he just sort of out of control? 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:07.680 And so maybe some combo of the two, right. 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:09.600 Yeah, some combo of the two, right, because it is 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:12.320 not a portrait of somebody who is fully in control. 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:15.840 I will say there is a potential number fifteen in 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:20.600 this story, Sinclair saying that he told her that he 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:23.880 had fathered children all over the world, including one with 0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:27.959 a Japanese FLT star, which would be a new baby, 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:28.440 and that. 0:09:28.480 --> 0:09:31.920 Apparently he was or is just offering his sperm to 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:35.360 any woman out there that we knew. I thought we did. 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:39.560 I missed that in the journal story. I was in 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:42.000 there sperm to somebody via direct message. 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:44.400 I guess I suppose I had blocked that out of 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:44.839 my mind. 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:48.199 Now I went on a little bit of a rabbit 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:51.000 hole trying to find the Japanese pop star to see 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:52.520 if this had indeed happened. 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:55.679 Are there any did you fly to Tokyo for this? 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:59.600 No, this happened on the internet, but I. 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:03.640 Was not able to Finally, we should treat this as 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:07.439 an unconfirmed report until we received further confirmation. 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:07.760 Got it? 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:08.280 I wrote. 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:10.920 The last thing on this subject I will note is 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:13.960 The Times. Both in the story and then in their 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:16.680 podcast in which they talked about it, they kept using 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:20.120 the term brood, which a brood of kids, which to me, 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:25.000 I mean usually broods like an animals. And I don't 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:27.800 know that it was just struck me as odd. Max. 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:30.480 I guess they suppose they figured once you get to 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:33.520 a certain number, it's no longer just a conventional family 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:34.240 of this now. 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:37.320 When you there just isn't a lot of precedent for 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:41.320 having this many children, Like I think it's hard to 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:42.760 come up with. I don't know that we have a 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:47.200 term for a large amount of human children this low. 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:49.280 You know, this big was so apparently not. I think 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:51.439 The Times is you know, working, but. 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:59.760 They have Sarah Fryar other things that happened in the 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:03.040 last past few days. Elon Musk is raising a lot 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:04.839 of money. It would seem tell us about it. 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:09.760 Yeah, so a few things are happening at once. Let 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:13.360 me pull up my list here. So there is the 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:18.480 five billion that he wants for Xai. 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:22.040 There is, by the way, five billion, to be clear, 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:24.520 five billion via the debt market, not in. 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:26.559 Ex the debt market exactly. 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:30.680 So that's debt for Xai, which is a which is 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:35.920 part of Xai Holdings, which is simultaneously in discussions to 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:41.400 raise twenty billion in equity. And then he separately had 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:47.960 a raise for Neuralink, his brain technology company. That that 0:11:48.080 --> 0:11:51.680 was the six hundred and fifty million round. And he's also, 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:55.440 according to the Financial Time, selling three hundred million in 0:11:55.640 --> 0:12:01.040 Xai stock through a secondary offering. So lots of lots 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:04.760 of capital raises happening at once for his companies. Maybe 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:10.440 trying to make the most of this return to his 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:14.160 corporate life in what he says will be a full 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:18.760 time manner and realizing that these companies that he needs 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:20.320 more money to do the things he wants to do. 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:25.280 Important to differentiate between what has been announced, which is 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:30.800 the right and these Xai numbers, which according to. 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:32.640 The reports are still in marketing stage. 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:34.360 They're they're just asking for it. 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:37.000 So like yeah, like you're asking for. 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:41.000 It also like five billion dollars, but it doesn't necessarily mean. 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:42.440 That I'm going to can I tell you something? Though 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:46.679 much more likely to do usive billion than Max Schafflin. Yeah, 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:47.800 I'll give you now when you. 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:51.079 Dang GPUs do you need that so many? 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:53.839 Yeah, when you dangle an interest rate of over ten 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:56.240 percent on the debt, that certainly helps. And apparently the 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:59.720 interest rate they're offering you somewhere around twelve Morgan Stanley 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:03.240 time bank to mister Musk is handling the deal. I 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:05.920 will say, Max, you know, it's funny because Morgan Stanley 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:09.080 the other banks just finally finally got that godfor's sake, 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:11.680 and Twitter dead off its books. Twitter now of course 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:14.080 x which is now of course part of Xai. And 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:15.840 as soon as they finally managed to get it off 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:19.520 their books after they were nursing it forever and couldn't 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:22.640 pawn it off on anybody, bang, we hit the market 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:23.600 with another five billion. 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.920 I mean, like, if you're a banker, working with Elon 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:29.800 Musk is a good bet, even if you're not necessarily 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:32.040 crazy about any particular deal. 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:34.520 Like he's got a lot of private equity to sell. 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:37.160 All right, Max. Last thing in this space another deal 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:40.319 that happened or almost happened, kind of happened then didn't happen, 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:43.000 is Groc and Telegram. This is the. 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:43.760 Second one of these. 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:48.400 So the Telegram CEO tweeted or East or whatever about 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.559 a big deal with Groc that they were going to 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:57.440 integrate Grock into into Telegram or something, and a bunch 0:13:57.440 --> 0:13:58.880 of news outlets wrote about it. 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:01.280 This is pretty similar to the story we. 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:04.120 Talked about two weeks ago about Calshi announcing a deal 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:07.400 and then Elon Musk showed up on Twitter and said 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:10.480 no deal has been signed. This kind of like weird 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:14.800 public feuding with a potential partner. This is a potentially 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:19.200 a large deal now. Look, Telegram, unlike Calshi, is a 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:23.640 very controversial business. The founder, Pavel d'urrov I believe, is 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:27.280 not an uncomplicated guy. There are regulators around the world 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:31.560 who have problems with the way Telegram handles like illegal 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:34.440 content in going through its service. Look, we don't know 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:37.200 the backstory, so who knows, But like, looking at this 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:39.800 report in light of what we read in the Times. 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:43.160 Like it just it does seem it seems odd right. 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:46.400 Well, also just for us to reply publicly on X 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:49.920 saying nothing is signed, and then for Pavel d'ov to 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:53.600 reply to that saying, correct, we're just in late stage 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:57.320 discussions Like those weren't his exact words, but he was 0:14:57.400 --> 0:15:02.040 like trying to keep the relationship it proceeding ahead with 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:06.520 a steal, as opposed to taking Musk's very pointed statement 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:08.040 that nothing was happening. 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:10.480 I'll tell you what I think is going on here. 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:13.600 Please do But and this is just speculation, but you know, 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:16.040 Elon Musk, that's what this show is. 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:17.680 Max, He's a famous I got it, you know. 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:21.720 Just remember he's a famously hands on ceo his empire, 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:26.160 especially now, especially with his kind of political engagement, which 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:29.320 continues even with this White House event, and he's running 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:31.840 more companies than he's ever run. Like, I think it's 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:35.960 just gotten harder for all of these companies, especially these startups. 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:38.920 You know, Grok is sort of like a startup to operate, 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:41.880 they need Elon musk sign off for everything. And and 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:44.240 my supposition is some of these deals that are being 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:46.160 announced have been announced without. 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:50.320 The underlings are getting out over their skis anything you 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:52.440 didn't consult with the doge father first? 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:55.480 Exactly right, okay, or he made the deals and he's 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:58.080 forgetting possible as well. 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:03.400 Possible does father the dose father, like all fathers, tend 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:05.560 to forget a lot of that they do. And say, 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:14.600 moving back to Washington for a second, Max, because over 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:18.720 the weekend, just when you think Elon is leaving Washington 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:22.640 and he's closing that chapter of his life, bang, big 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:27.360 explosion reports start coming out. I believe it was initially 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:31.800 reported anonymously with sources, then confirmed by the White House 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:34.760 Trump truth that did it start with the truth. 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:38.880 There was a reporter Trump on Saturday. 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:43.640 That Musk Skuy Jared Isaac Man, close business associate has 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:48.400 been up in SpaceX, you know, traveling across across space. 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:50.680 Someone who's in put a lot of money into SpaceX. 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:55.240 I believe, was suddenly out as Trump's pick to lead NASA. 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:58.320 That's quite a parting gift, Max, on your way out 0:16:58.360 --> 0:16:58.760 the door. 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:01.120 Well, it's not a parting gift. 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:05.639 Like to stop this, Like, first of all, Trump said, 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:09.879 Elon's sticking around. Elon said, Elon sticking around. We know 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:13.640 there's tons of lobbying going on. Elon is lobbying for 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:17.639 transportation rules around driverless cars. He's lobbying right now for 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:20.639 the Senate to change the big beautiful bill to to 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:24.640 keep these EV credits in place. This is an ongoing 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:29.600 negotiation with two with allies, but allies in Elon Musk 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:32.800 and Donald Trump, who have somewhat different interests. I would 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:36.480 say that beyond any kind of like anonymous report that 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:38.840 we've seen out of Trump world, beyond anything that like 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:42.680 Steve Bannon or any of the other kind of adversaries 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:46.439 that Elon has connected to Trump have said, this is 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:47.280 the single. 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:48.040 Most significant thing. 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:51.359 This is the like the one the biggest thing that 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:54.399 has happened to get you to say, huh, I wonder 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:58.159 if Elon Musk and Trump are good because this was 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:02.320 like Elon's guy, as you said, he had also cleared 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:05.639 his committee hearing, right, he was going to get confirmed. 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:08.120 And the explanation, yeah. 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:12.200 The replacement CEO for himself at his company exactly. 0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:15.200 And the explanation is kind of thin. 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:18.040 The explanation is that Trump found out that he had 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:22.320 made donations to Democratic politicians, which, of course, like that's 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:27.000 a public record. There's also reporting to suggest that that 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:29.800 Trump had already known about this, that said, like, I 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:32.880 don't know that we know the whole story here. 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:35.639 Max, I think I'm curious what you think of just 0:18:35.880 --> 0:18:39.040 like sometimes I think when with Trump, the simplest answer 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:42.560 is sometimes the right one. And I have seen no 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:45.080 reporting to back me up on this. 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:47.920 You think he just forgot no, no, no, no no. 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:51.840 I think that that Trump was on the campaign trail 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:55.560 talking about Elon Musk's big, beautiful rockets that are going 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:59.080 to take us to Mars. I think that he really 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:03.960 believed in that idea, and the rockets have been exploding 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:06.760 on the launch pad. And so if I'm Trump, I'm 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:09.560 looking at that and thinking, you know, do we really 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:13.199 want to be all in on this direction? It's just 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:15.920 it's just, you know, symbolism to Trump matters. 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:20.760 A lot our listeners. Another one did blow up last week. Actually, 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:21.600 I don't rely reminder. 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:24.880 We forget anything to do with this. 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:27.760 This is the This is how many now in what 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:28.880 period of time, like. 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:32.640 Three in a row, where they've had mishaps. 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:34.880 And they're not going to just argue that, Hey, we're 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:37.440 just iterating these kind of explosions are all part of 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:40.760 the learning process. Don't sweat at Chafkin. We're going there. 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:42.359 They are arguing that, and they. 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:45.359 Are that they're also exploding billions of dollars into Sinaire. 0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:47.760 Yeah, and it's like Sarah saying, Trump would be on 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:50.119 the campaign trail and he had this bit that people 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:54.080 probably remember where we talked about the arms grabbing the rockets. 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:55.000 Like a baby. 0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:57.040 He did a little version of it actually in the 0:19:57.040 --> 0:19:59.880 Oval office the other day during Elon's you know, farewell 0:19:59.880 --> 0:20:03.560 at and so, you know, whatever the argument is about, 0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:05.440 like oh, this was just a test launch or whatever, 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:08.880 we did not get the beautiful arms, you know, cuddling 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:11.600 the rocket like a baby or whatever Trump might have 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:15.040 liked to see. And on top of that, you have pushback, 0:20:15.160 --> 0:20:18.199 right of like you have you have senators, you have 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:20.879 NASA folks, you have people who don't necessarily want to 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:24.639 just like take a hard pivot with NASA, which is 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:27.000 the what Jared Isaacman and Elon Muska want to do. 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:31.520 I also do think it's possible that like Trump just 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:35.440 kind of forgot about Jared Isaacman's donations to Democrats, or 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:38.160 he kind of spaced when someone was telling him or 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:41.800 or someone convinced him that actually, like this is a 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:43.680 this is a big issue. I mean, these were very 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:46.520 recent donations. I mean as recent as the twenty twenty 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:50.080 four election. It's not like he was a Democrat twenty 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:53.720 years ago. And no fair, fair, but I think it's 0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:57.000 possible that the like face value explanation offered from Donald 0:20:57.000 --> 0:20:57.840 Trump is true. 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:01.600 Okay, I will just say in counterpoint here, hearing all 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:05.159 that and appreciating all that and seeing your points of view, 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:07.760 I will say that Musk himself was quoted in this 0:21:08.080 --> 0:21:10.160 very good Atlantic piece. And by the way, this Atlantic 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:12.080 piece are just simply pulling in this case here from 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:14.679 an old pressure he gave. He said, this whole doze 0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:16.720 thing I'm doing, this is a way to make a 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:20.159 lot of enemies and not that many friends. And I 0:21:20.280 --> 0:21:23.159 think it's also possible that some of those enemies, and 0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:26.760 it is a big, big, big list of enemies he 0:21:26.760 --> 0:21:29.840 has made in Washington, d C. It's distinctly possible that 0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:32.080 more and more and more of them are around the 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:35.240