Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm
Speaker 1: Jason Kelly. We're here every day bringing you the latest
Speaker 1: news from the world's of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics,
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Speaker 1: hundred and twenty countries. You can download Bloomberg Business Week
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Speaker 1: listen to our radio show weekdays at two pm Eastern
Speaker 1: only on Bloomberg Radio. Lots going on, and there's more
Speaker 1: moves by countries and cities around the globe to mitigate
Speaker 1: the effects of the coronavirus. Here in the US, it's
Speaker 1: really kind of a patchwork of moves by governors and
Speaker 1: mayors across the country. Safe to say, though, Jason, it's
Speaker 1: been a pretty severe response. Here to talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about that response and whether it makes sense is
Speaker 1: Dr Dave Westerner, He's professor of biology at Davidson College,
Speaker 1: who joins us on the phone from Davidson, North Carolina.
Speaker 1: Dr Westerner, really appreciate your time on this Monday. It
Speaker 1: has been a severe response. I've had a lot of
Speaker 1: people say, wait a minute, are we overdoing it? Are we? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Well thanks for having me on today. Yeah, that's that's
Speaker 1: a great question. Has been a severe response? Um? You know,
Speaker 1: I think there's there's so many unknowns with this virus
Speaker 1: that a severe response is warranted. Um. If you look
Speaker 1: what happened in China, I mean, they had much more
Speaker 1: severe response, and within a month or so of of that,
Speaker 1: it seems like they were able to get under control
Speaker 1: the number of new the new infections. So I think
Speaker 1: that's the goal here. If we implement these strategies, now,
Speaker 1: are we going to mitigate the effects over the next
Speaker 1: month or so? Excuse me? And uh so, dr you know,
Speaker 1: tell us about what makes this one different because it
Speaker 1: feels severe. Again, we don't have broad testing yet here
Speaker 1: in the United States, and so maybe the numbers are
Speaker 1: a skewed a little bit, but you know, it's terrifying,
Speaker 1: candidly to see the numbers coming out of Italy, uh
Speaker 1: and and other countries. Help us understand you know, what's
Speaker 1: different about this. Yeah, I think it's a it's a
Speaker 1: great question. I think it's a question A lot of
Speaker 1: people have, you know, the just the back up a
Speaker 1: little bit. I guess coronaviruses are not entirely new. We've
Speaker 1: known about coronavirus is for half a century or more. Um. Indeed,
Speaker 1: probably a quarter to a third of what we'd call
Speaker 1: the common cold is typically caused by coronaviruses. It really
Speaker 1: was two thousand two, I guess, with the Stars outbreak,
Speaker 1: which was a coronavirus, and then two thousand thirteen with
Speaker 1: the Mirrors outbreak, which again with a coronavirus, that we
Speaker 1: started seeing this family of viruses as potentially major um
Speaker 1: impactors of human health. I think what's so Stars and
Speaker 1: Mirs had fairly high mortality rates. With Mirrors about a
Speaker 1: third of the people who were infected actually died, which
Speaker 1: is extraordinarily high. Um. Both those viruses were not easily
Speaker 1: transmitted from person to person, though, So this virus we're seeing,
Speaker 1: you know, a related virus in the coronavirus family, that
Speaker 1: is much easily more easily transmitted from person to person,
Speaker 1: and I think that is really the cause for concerns.
Speaker 1: Even though the mortality rate seems to be significantly lower
Speaker 1: than Stars, we're seeing many more people become infected, much
Speaker 1: more quickly. But that's what I think, that's a big worry.
Speaker 1: That's what. Okay, and help help us with this because
Speaker 1: this is the conversation I think, especially as we see
Speaker 1: our cities and our states being um, you know, self
Speaker 1: quarantining and shut down completely. I guess the question is,
Speaker 1: and people have said this that if if what we
Speaker 1: keep hearing from officials who are telling us that most
Speaker 1: people will be fine, some people won't even know they
Speaker 1: have the virus, and that really those most at risk,
Speaker 1: whether it's the elderly, are those who have some kind
Speaker 1: of illness, you know that those are the most vulnerable.
Speaker 1: I mean, if if are we is it correct to
Speaker 1: say that most people will be fine? And then because
Speaker 1: of that, you know, is the content Is the spread
Speaker 1: of the virus still that worrisome? I think yes, most
Speaker 1: people will will be fine. Um, but that doesn't mean
Speaker 1: the spread of the virus should not be worriesothing to
Speaker 1: all of us. Uh, your average person, relatively young, relatively healthy, Yes,
Speaker 1: all the information suggests if that person gets infected, they'll
Speaker 1: probably be fine. They'll have a minor cold, they may
Speaker 1: be completely asymptomatic, they may have flu like symptoms. But
Speaker 1: the real concern is those people can transmit the virus
Speaker 1: to others, and if that virus then gets transmitted to
Speaker 1: a more vulnerable population, the elderly people underlying medical conditions,
Speaker 1: it's gonna have very severe consequences. And if those numbers
Speaker 1: go up, the health care system is not prepared to
Speaker 1: deal with that many people coming in with severe consequences.
Speaker 1: And so Dr Westerner, you know, you've heard that a
Speaker 1: lot of the same things we have from Dr Fauci
Speaker 1: and others about the length of this sort of new
Speaker 1: life that that we're living in. What what do you
Speaker 1: make of that? I mean, is this a two month thing?
Speaker 1: Is this a three six? Like? What are we looking
Speaker 1: at here? Yeah? I think that's that's a great question.
Speaker 1: And we don't know. I mean, this is something we
Speaker 1: haven't seen before. We don't really know. Um, if you
Speaker 1: look at influenza, there's been a lot of comparisons between
Speaker 1: this and influenza. We pretty much know every year influenza
Speaker 1: cases are going to decrease in March, decrease again in April,
Speaker 1: will be almost non existent in May. You know, if
Speaker 1: that turns out to be the case for coronavirus, great,
Speaker 1: it's going to be gone relatively soon, but we don't
Speaker 1: know if that's gonna be the well. And I'm going
Speaker 1: to say that just listening to other medical coverage as
Speaker 1: well that we've been doing on our network, is that
Speaker 1: summer saying we don't know because it's now showing up
Speaker 1: the virus and some warmer locations, so we don't know
Speaker 1: that those warmer temperatures are going to shut down the virus.
Speaker 1: I guess I guess it goes back to there's just
Speaker 1: so much we don't know about this particular strain of
Speaker 1: the coronavirus that really um explains some of the hysteria
Speaker 1: and understandable shutdowns. Dr Dave Westerner, Professor of Biology, Davidson College,
Speaker 1: on the phone from Davidson, North Carolina. This is Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 1: Last night, Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders got together in
Speaker 1: a studio, not in front of an audience. Kevin Sirelli,
Speaker 1: we know, was watching it. Chief Washington correspondent for Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Radio and television host of Bloomberg Sound On that's coming
Speaker 1: up later on in d C. He joins us from Washington, alright,
Speaker 1: keV Amid all of this, there is still a nominating
Speaker 1: contest going on. What do you see last night? What
Speaker 1: do you see last night? Well, first of all, I
Speaker 1: mean three things. First and foremost, I mean, you've got
Speaker 1: primaries that are being delayed as a result of the pandemic.
Speaker 1: And then secondly, it was it was really a substantive
Speaker 1: debate last night, both former Vice President Joe Biden as
Speaker 1: well as Senator Bernie Sanders only really attacking each other's
Speaker 1: records and not making it personal. They also that this
Speaker 1: is the third point that I would make. They also
Speaker 1: rarely mentioned the president's name if there was something in
Speaker 1: some analysis that was done at the inclusion of the
Speaker 1: debate that found they really focused on how each of
Speaker 1: them would have responded and would respond to the pandemic. UH.
Speaker 1: Senator Sanders used it to double down on his assertions
Speaker 1: for Medicare for all. The former Vice president used it
Speaker 1: as an opportunity to talk more about his leadership style
Speaker 1: and how he would have conducted it. And you know,
Speaker 1: Biden really using UH terms so far as to say
Speaker 1: that there needs to be a mobilized effort equivalent to
Speaker 1: to World War two, UM and so from that standpoint, Uh,
Speaker 1: it just is a broader illustration of how much the
Speaker 1: pandemic has really caused, injected so much uncertainty obviously into
Speaker 1: the lives of every American and every citizen in the world,
Speaker 1: but also uh into the longer term election cycle. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: you do wonder you know what else might potentially have
Speaker 1: to change as a result of this, Kevin, I mean,
Speaker 1: we've got another round at primaries tomorrow. I mean, Americans,
Speaker 1: can they get you are those folks who need to
Speaker 1: be voting? Can they do it? Do it? You know,
Speaker 1: that's that's a question that those individuals are going to
Speaker 1: have to rely on their local governments in order to
Speaker 1: get that guidance UM. And and of course people listening,
Speaker 1: you can go to your local government websites to make
Speaker 1: sure that you get that guidance UM in terms of
Speaker 1: the voting UM. But beyond that, it's also worth noting
Speaker 1: that a lot of these folks had pre uh pre
Speaker 1: election voting and and and began voting early ballot voting,
Speaker 1: uh several weeks ago, so that that's a part of
Speaker 1: this as well. Um. There's been also some in Washington,
Speaker 1: d C. You have just raised, uh, the issue as
Speaker 1: campaigning for the year is changed dramatically. You know, no
Speaker 1: more rallies, no more town halls. Uh, there was no
Speaker 1: live studio audience last night. Uh. And and so that's
Speaker 1: just something else that I think top campaign officials on
Speaker 1: both campaigns are are are working through as well. And Kevin,
Speaker 1: do you think that that could lead to a scenario
Speaker 1: where maybe, uh, Sanders, who is not the front runner
Speaker 1: at this point, maybe backs off just a little bit.
Speaker 1: I mean, certainly, as you say, the tone was yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, they certainly were disagreeing on certain things, but
Speaker 1: it felt like a more cordial tone than we've seen
Speaker 1: in many of the previous debates. Absolutely, And and you know,
Speaker 1: both candidates reaffirmed that whomever the Democratic nominee is, that
Speaker 1: they would do anything everything in their power to campaign
Speaker 1: for the other person. Biden made that very clear. Standards
Speaker 1: made that very clear, and just you know, speaking, you know,
Speaker 1: it almost is surreal to see all three of the campaigns,
Speaker 1: the president's reelection campaign, Biden campaign, Sanders campaign, to see
Speaker 1: their them put out not them per se, but they're
Speaker 1: they're collective campaigns to be putting out these it's on
Speaker 1: it's like they're living in a vacuum, these attack emails
Speaker 1: and and and fundraising at this time. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: just it's nonsensical. Um. And so I think you're gonna
Speaker 1: notice some significant changes in the coming weeks to just
Speaker 1: how even on that level they communicate. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: it's it's quite striking, you know, when when you're talking
Speaker 1: about just the moment that we're in and you've got
Speaker 1: to you know, then you've got these emails for fun. Well,
Speaker 1: and one last question, just got about thirty seconds. You
Speaker 1: do wonder we talked about longer lasting impacts as a
Speaker 1: result of what we're going through because of the virus
Speaker 1: taking an audience away, with candidates not playing to the
Speaker 1: audience or cheers or booze. It really made it a
Speaker 1: very different type of debate. As you said, they stuck
Speaker 1: to the issues. Just got about thirty seconds here. I'll
Speaker 1: keep this sight. Absolutely they they stuck to the issues.
Speaker 1: And I gotta end on a note of optimism. I
Speaker 1: just was flipping through my social media feeds and and
Speaker 1: I saw that navy ship off the coast of Italy
Speaker 1: playing the Italian national anthem, and I just thought, you know,
Speaker 1: let's put that moment out there on your beautiful show, Carol,
Speaker 1: and Jason's well, thank you, and we do appreciate, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, and all that we're all going through to
Speaker 1: kind of end on that note is um is really
Speaker 1: really wonderful. Kevin, thank you so much. I know you're
Speaker 1: dealing with a lot as well as you continue to
Speaker 1: cover what's going on in Washington and certainly on the
Speaker 1: campaign trail, which is really not happening right now because
Speaker 1: too is shut down. Is Kevin Cirelli, Chief Washington correspondent
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg Radio and TV host a Bloomberg Sound One
Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. Carol Masser in our interactive Broker
Speaker 1: studio here in New York. Uh, my co host Jason
Speaker 1: Kelly out there at home. Uh. And this is how
Speaker 1: we're doing it, folks. Interest. Interesting story on the Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Today about how Walt's one of my favorite stories. I
Speaker 1: have to say, yeah, getting blind side. Yeah, well let's
Speaker 1: talk about it. Yeah, it's uh, it's Wall Street getting blindsided, right,
Speaker 1: I mean in a lot of ways and some great color.
Speaker 1: I have to say Max Able's and he knows this
Speaker 1: is one of my favorite writers at Bloomberg because he
Speaker 1: just gets things other people don't he gets insights into
Speaker 1: the titans of Wall Street that you do. He joins
Speaker 1: us on the phone from New York City as just
Speaker 1: Joel Webber, the editor of course of Bloomberg Business Week, Max,
Speaker 1: want to start with you first. How are you doing?
Speaker 1: How are you feeling? Thank you so much for asking.
Speaker 1: I'm great, especially when I hear your your live on
Speaker 1: the air compliment, which means so much for me. But
Speaker 1: I do want to give a shout out to my
Speaker 1: colleagues Street or Naturajan and Kathy Burton, who helped me
Speaker 1: build this story about you know, Wall Street. I think
Speaker 1: you know whether or not you really adorn and admire,
Speaker 1: you know, the financial services industry, or if you despise it,
Speaker 1: or if you're afraid of it. You know, the thing
Speaker 1: that I think we'd all agree on is that Wall
Speaker 1: Street seems to have this ability to look around corners
Speaker 1: and to make money from from the ability to predict
Speaker 1: us next. And what our reporting showed is that just
Speaker 1: didn't not happen here. You know that they existential crisis
Speaker 1: happened without Wall Street seeing it coming. And that's what
Speaker 1: our stories about. So, Joel, what do you make of this?
Speaker 1: You have you know, both as the editor of Business
Speaker 1: Week and formally the editor of Boomberg Markets, you have
Speaker 1: a keen understanding of this type of person and and
Speaker 1: sort of the the behemoth that is Wall Street in
Speaker 1: many ways. Did this surprise you? What? What did you
Speaker 1: see in this story? Well, I think the thing that
Speaker 1: we kind of hit on with Max and Um we
Speaker 1: reached out to the sort of the middle of last
Speaker 1: week and said, hey, this thing's happening, and you know,
Speaker 1: it's starting to turn into a blood bath and everything's
Speaker 1: turning red, like what is the mood right now? And
Speaker 1: he just was able to talk to some people who
Speaker 1: we don't normally get to talk to. And what really
Speaker 1: struck us was just literally how blindsided, well the top,
Speaker 1: the top echelons of Wall Street were by this. And
Speaker 1: it's funny. And even since he wrote the story and
Speaker 1: we published it last last Friday, it's been sort of
Speaker 1: interesting because I've been seeing things like um comments that
Speaker 1: Davos pop up, and even then, you know, like the
Speaker 1: coronavirus situation in China was something that was on people's
Speaker 1: radar a little bit, But those comments feel so dated
Speaker 1: when you look back at them already, because I think
Speaker 1: everyone just underestimated, obviously how big of a global phenomenon
Speaker 1: this was going to be. And you know, looking at
Speaker 1: all of those comments and these comments from from the
Speaker 1: highest levels of Wall Street, it just it goes to
Speaker 1: show you here, you know, we had this epic bowl
Speaker 1: market forever and one of the favorite things everybody talked
Speaker 1: about was like, what could bring this thing down? And
Speaker 1: yet the thing that has brought it down, like literally
Speaker 1: wasn't a thing that anybody was pointing to. Well, And
Speaker 1: I think what's fascinating is these are the individuals we
Speaker 1: kind of turned to. Certainly the President did, bringing all
Speaker 1: of the big bank execs to Washington to say, Okay,
Speaker 1: where are we? What's going on? Is this a financial crisis?
Speaker 1: And you know, these are the folks that we often
Speaker 1: look to to say, Okay, how bad is it? Where
Speaker 1: are we? And the folks we look to that hopefully
Speaker 1: get an early indication that something's worse than what everybody thinks,
Speaker 1: And you know, Max, it's not what we got. These
Speaker 1: guys were as equally surprised. I that is a great observation,
Speaker 1: and I think maybe the difference might be is that
Speaker 1: this is not a financial phenomenon that then in effected
Speaker 1: the real world, which we we um old enough to
Speaker 1: remember the two thousand financial crisis, when financial mechanisms UM
Speaker 1: ended up nearly taking down the rest of the world
Speaker 1: with it. In this case, it's it's a public health
Speaker 1: crisis then infected the markets, and I think that that
Speaker 1: might be what's confusing and upsetting and frustrating to financiers.
Speaker 1: And then, of course, I mean it's worth is pointing
Speaker 1: out that while Wallstreet didn't see this coming, but it's
Speaker 1: also a real life calamity impacting millions, if not billions
Speaker 1: of people around the world. So it's why I think
Speaker 1: even even the Wall Street billionaires we talked to had
Speaker 1: a sense of this is this is UM hurting a
Speaker 1: lot of people all around the world. Max. What was
Speaker 1: the thing that struck you the most? What was the
Speaker 1: anecdote that really jumped out at you? You have a
Speaker 1: keen nose for these Okay, well, I wish I could
Speaker 1: brag him on my own nose. But in this case,
Speaker 1: Tree starring Kathy Um is the recording that gave us
Speaker 1: this just gorgeous opening scene where you know you have
Speaker 1: truly the masters of the universe that that we care
Speaker 1: about here at Bloomberg News. You've got John Paulsen, You've
Speaker 1: got David Einholnd, You've got Dan Lope, You've got Golden Sacks.
Speaker 1: Goldman gathers those three hedge fund magnates together with others
Speaker 1: in a in a literal like Midtown Manhattan steakhouse the
Speaker 1: Sunday before Last. And the scene we have isn't you know,
Speaker 1: a scene of swagger or a scene of understanding the world.
Speaker 1: We have a scene of people trying to figure out
Speaker 1: what's going on. And of course that is when the
Speaker 1: fight between the Russians and the Saudis break out. The
Speaker 1: oil market balls into chaos. You know, we have the
Speaker 1: we have a scene of these these men all on
Speaker 1: their phones, you know, scaring into their phones as um,
Speaker 1: I think it's a stock future is that halted? And
Speaker 1: then and then a few you know, not long after that,
Speaker 1: we have Mark Lasar, the billionaire, the founder of Avenue,
Speaker 1: who also co owns Milwaukee Bucksky his credit. He said
Speaker 1: on the records to me, I remember telling Joel about it.
Speaker 1: He was basically like, look, I didn't think this was
Speaker 1: going to happen, you know, I thought everyone was going
Speaker 1: to calm down and until recently. I just totally misunderstood
Speaker 1: this thing. And it's always kind of nice to hear
Speaker 1: people whoever they are, are just kind of like be
Speaker 1: honest about it. You know, it's in in a weird way.
Speaker 1: It's kind of rare, but I hope it's It's what
Speaker 1: makes this the Business Weeks fun. I have to say
Speaker 1: the Columbia University professor quote that you have in this story.
Speaker 1: That are the three of you have in this story? Um,
Speaker 1: I guess runs a program and financial engineering said Wall
Speaker 1: Street executives may not have seen this coming because they
Speaker 1: don't understand the pressures on regular people. And even a
Speaker 1: Goldman Sachs former managing director, you guys quote, I do
Speaker 1: think financial people live in a different world, So you
Speaker 1: do wonder about what they miss because they're just it's
Speaker 1: just not what they see on a normal basis. It's
Speaker 1: a must read. Really appreciate it. Max Abelson, Finance reporter
Speaker 1: Bloomberg News on the phone from New York City, stays
Speaker 1: safe along with Joe Weber as well, editor of Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Business Week, joining us on the phone in New York
Speaker 1: as well. Thanks for listening to Bloomberg Business Week. You
Speaker 1: can subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg
Speaker 1: dot com. You can also listen to our radio show
Speaker 1: every weekday at two pm Eastern, only on Bloomberg Radio