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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George,

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Speaker 1: don't worry with you, Michael Lichens with us as we

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Speaker 1: talk about exorcisms. The Exorcism Files will be talking about

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Speaker 1: a movie with Father Gabriel Amoreth, who died at the

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Speaker 1: age of ninety one after doing, as Michael said, thousands

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Speaker 1: of exorcisms. Truly remarkable. Michael, is the Catholic Church the

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Speaker 1: only religion that covers exorcisms. There are other churches and religions,

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Speaker 1: obviously different branches of Protestants. Protestantism pardon me, have a

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Speaker 1: ministry of exorcism in some way. I know of a

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Speaker 1: couple of Anglican exorcists. And then there are also religions

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Speaker 1: that have what we might call exorcisms. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if that's the official name. And you know, like shamanism

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Speaker 1: and things like that, where there is a ritual to

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Speaker 1: getting rid of demons that might be vaccine people. It's

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Speaker 1: just remarkable that it happens the way it does. Tell

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Speaker 1: me about the devil. What are your thoughts of that.

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Speaker 1: I am one of those who does believe the devil

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Speaker 1: is real. That is actually a really controversial thing to

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Speaker 1: believe in even American Christian circles like there are people

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Speaker 1: who in the nineteen sixties even the Catholic Church was

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Speaker 1: talking less about him. Suddenly the exorcist comes out and

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Speaker 1: there's a renewed interest and they didn't have enough exorcist.

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Speaker 1: But yes, I do think he is a real force,

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Speaker 1: and I believe that ultimately we can't blame everything on him.

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Speaker 1: We are humans, we have our free will. But his

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Speaker 1: job is to lure people away from grace, and that

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Speaker 1: is what we have to resist and fight against. More

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Speaker 1: than anything. Have there been, as you were saying that

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Speaker 1: you have witnessed several haunted possession objects that were how

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Speaker 1: do you exercise an object? Often usually with that blessing

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Speaker 1: and in a couple cases of lay member Adam laiho

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Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier, he recalls a farmhouse where they had

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Speaker 1: a haunted painting just left behind by previous people in

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Speaker 1: their attic. New owners come, they claim that their house

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Speaker 1: is haunted. They give the way the painting of friends.

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Speaker 1: The house continues. It continues for haunting a few days more,

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Speaker 1: but then the haunting moves to the new house, and

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Speaker 1: what they finally had to do was give the painting

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Speaker 1: to the chancery for the exorcist to examine, and also

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Speaker 1: blessed the item, and they ultimately decided that it was

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Speaker 1: best just to keep it under lock and key, which

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Speaker 1: is something most famously the Warrens would do, is just

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Speaker 1: keep it in their little museum of objects. Rocheri, Yellen

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Speaker 1: GUILEI are you feeling the familiar with her name? She's

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Speaker 1: not with us anymore either. I've heard the name. I'm

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Speaker 1: not too familiar now. She was an expert in the

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Speaker 1: objects and things like that and totally convinced that they

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Speaker 1: were possessed, totally convinced. No, And a lot of people

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Speaker 1: have found that. There was the Dibbit Box from a

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Speaker 1: few years ago that I think they made a movie

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Speaker 1: out of, and that got that and Robert the Doll,

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Speaker 1: I think are the most famous for haunted objects that

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Speaker 1: to me strike me more as demonic, good old Robert

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Speaker 1: down there in Homestead, Florida. Jeez, I know I don't

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Speaker 1: scare me because of the Uncanny Valley anyways, but that

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Speaker 1: thing is utterly terrifying. How often are you on call?

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Speaker 1: Do do priests call you? And say, Michael, we're doing

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Speaker 1: an exorcism next week. You want to come here and

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Speaker 1: witness it. They do not. They often will interview me,

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Speaker 1: usually not interview me. I'm interviewing them, usually anonymously, just

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Speaker 1: so I get some more insights into their ministry. But

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Speaker 1: I'm not on an active phone call. If you call

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Speaker 1: me any emergency, I'm probably calling a priest next because

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Speaker 1: I don't want to get into a fight without the

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Speaker 1: right tools. Generally, what kind of an entity is doing

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Speaker 1: the possession? Generally what is it? It's generally a lower

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Speaker 1: form of one of the fallen angels. Those are the

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Speaker 1: ones that were cast out of heaven by Saint Michael.

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Speaker 1: On occasion, though you get Lucifer himself, who will possess

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Speaker 1: a person. A couple exorcists have encountered him. Though it

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Speaker 1: is rare. Is blessed that his very first exorcism was

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Speaker 1: with Lucifer, who identified himself in English, even though the

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Speaker 1: young boy who was possessed by Lucifer couldn't speak English.

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Speaker 1: What do they want? They typically want to destroy our hope.

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Speaker 1: They want our souls and the way to get to

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Speaker 1: our souls, to destroy any sense of hope we have

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Speaker 1: that we can be saved and redeemed, and so they'll

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Speaker 1: bring in these things to scare us, to frighten us,

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Speaker 1: to shake us to our core, and the ideas that

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Speaker 1: will give over to them because of their power. Why

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Speaker 1: does invoking the name Jesus or tossing holy water at them,

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Speaker 1: why does that seem to work. It's a reminder of

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Speaker 1: what they can never have. And that's one of them,

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Speaker 1: is the act of grace itself. The fact is is

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Speaker 1: that when because angels are eternal, when they rebel against God,

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Speaker 1: their will is forever cemented, whereas we live in time

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Speaker 1: and therefore given a lot more chances. So there was

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Speaker 1: a jealousy almost from the beginning. Some mystics believe that

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Speaker 1: Satan was moved to rebel in heaven because of human

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Speaker 1: souls and the jealousy they had over humans. So they

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Speaker 1: want to corrupt us as God's creation, as much as possible.

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Speaker 1: And what kind of a job do they do, Michael,

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Speaker 1: in trying to corrupt us? In trying to corrupt we

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Speaker 1: talked about a vexation and oppression. There's also, of course temptation,

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Speaker 1: which is the most normal form. You know. We know

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Speaker 1: the cartoon of the angel on one shoulder, the devil

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Speaker 1: on the other shoulder. Which one do you listen to? Right? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Which one are you going to listen to? And to

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Speaker 1: some degree this is an act of that we believe

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Speaker 1: demonic entities can engage in where they'll tempt you into

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Speaker 1: doing things, usually the name of achieving a lower good

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Speaker 1: like wealth or fame or material possessions you want. Why

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Speaker 1: must it be a priest to do the exorcism? Why

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Speaker 1: can it be you? Well, it can't be me, because

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Speaker 1: I think I would. I am a very clumsy person

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Speaker 1: who can mess up a lot of things on a

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Speaker 1: personal level. But also from a Catholic standpoint, the priest

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Speaker 1: is in Catholic theology we use the term in persona Christie.

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Speaker 1: They're acting in the person of Christ, much like priest

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Speaker 1: in the ancient world were acting on behalf of the

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Speaker 1: God they were serving at whatever. All their Catholic priests

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Speaker 1: are acting on behalf of Christ and in Christ's name,

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Speaker 1: so everything they do by their very lives is done

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Speaker 1: through Christ. We're gonna take call snuxt hour with Michael

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Speaker 1: go ahead and Michael oh, and I was just saying

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Speaker 1: more importantly, a lot of them are trained for this

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Speaker 1: and will fast and pray for days. They need to

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Speaker 1: have all these prayers memorized in both Latin and their

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Speaker 1: native tongue, and they're just better equipped to deal with it.

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Speaker 1: How do the demons select the human that they go after?

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Speaker 1: Funnily enough, it's often the humans who are choosing to

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Speaker 1: make themselves known to the demons. Yes, it's often people

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Speaker 1: who get curious. Maybe they get involved in something a

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Speaker 1: cult related, or they got tricked by a ghost that

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Speaker 1: was haunting their house, but there's something where they reach out.

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Speaker 1: Another reason why the church will warn lay people to

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Speaker 1: be careful in this ministry and not go too far

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Speaker 1: is because if we make ourselves too known to the demons,

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Speaker 1: we're now a target and this can happen. So basically,

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Speaker 1: people will make themselves known and then then temptation, the

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Speaker 1: obsession will start, and from there it's usually a path

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Speaker 1: to either complete ruin or sometimes a full possession. Now

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Speaker 1: we talked earlier about the Wigi board. Your overall thoughts,

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Speaker 1: is it just a game or is it serious stuff?

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Speaker 1: I think in most cases it's psychosomatic, and I want

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Speaker 1: to say, like more than ninety percent psychosomatic. It's us

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Speaker 1: kind of playing ourselves into believing the board is talking

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Speaker 1: and giving us real messages. But I think it opens

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Speaker 1: a doorway more than anything. In my own family, a

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Speaker 1: couple my mom's childhood house was haunted effort. They played

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Speaker 1: an Ouigi game at a slumber party, you know, the

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Speaker 1: most innocent thing you can think of, and after that

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Speaker 1: they kept seeing manifestations. Objects would move and hide. And

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Speaker 1: what I think you're doing there is you're inviting something

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Speaker 1: in No angel or demon can do anything without your permission,

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Speaker 1: without your consent, and without your will. So by the

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Speaker 1: act of playing with an Ouiji board, you're saying to

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Speaker 1: whatever spirit might be around or within hearing distance, come

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Speaker 1: on in play with it. Heck, move a physical object

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Speaker 1: for me. And well, you shouldn't open a door until

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Speaker 1: you know what's on the other side. So tell us

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Speaker 1: about Father Gabriel a more tell us more absolutely. As

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Speaker 1: I said, I think he's one of the most fascinating

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Speaker 1: people to have lived in the last hundred years. He

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Speaker 1: performed thousands of exorcisms, and he didn't start talking to

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Speaker 1: the media until he kept meeting priests and bishops who

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Speaker 1: didn't believe exorcisms was a necessary ministry. He found in

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Speaker 1: BacT that many dioceses didn't even have an exorcist on staff,

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Speaker 1: which is something they're supposed to have according to the

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Speaker 1: rules to have one on staff at least one, but

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Speaker 1: many did not and hadn't had one in years. So

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Speaker 1: he wanted to change that, so he started talking to

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Speaker 1: the to the media, gave numerous interviews, appeared in a

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Speaker 1: couple documentaries, and he started more than that, he started

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Speaker 1: the International Association of Exorcists, which has been promoted by

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Speaker 1: every pope since his lifetime and has trained hundreds of

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Speaker 1: priests to be exorcists. Pope Francis has spoken in a

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Speaker 1: couple of these meetings because he himself. Not many people

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Speaker 1: know this, but he actually performed a couple of exorcisms

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Speaker 1: himself back in the day were successful. From everything, Pope

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Speaker 1: Francis says, obviously he doesn't want to give too many details,

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Speaker 1: but he recalls that a more successful but also shook

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Speaker 1: him up pretty pretty royally. Is it dangerous to perform

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Speaker 1: an exorcism on the performer, you being on the person

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Speaker 1: who is performing the exorcism? Yes, ah, I actually never

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Speaker 1: thought of that. That's an interesting question. When I do

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Speaker 1: want to ask, then from my understanding, it's not inherently

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Speaker 1: dangerous to perform an exorcism on anybody. Sometimes, Father and Morth,

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Speaker 1: when he was trying to discern if somebody needed an

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Speaker 1: exorcism or just a doctor, he would perform minor exorcisms

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Speaker 1: which would involved holy water or things like that. It

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Speaker 1: would come to no harm to especially a regular person,

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Speaker 1: but someone who is possessed might react very violently to that.

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Speaker 1: When I was in Saint Louis Michael, I came very

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Speaker 1: close to interviewing the late priest, one of the two

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Speaker 1: priests that performed the exorcism on the little boy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then he passed away. Of course the priest did yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but he had told people that it had an effect

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Speaker 1: on a lot of people. They sold the furniture. For example,

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Speaker 1: the hospital closed the wing where this exorcism occurred because

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Speaker 1: of the strange things that were happening. But the hospital

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Speaker 1: sold off the furniture that was in that room, the bed,

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Speaker 1: the chest, the dresser, the chest of drawers, and the

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Speaker 1: people who bought those things they claimed that strange things

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Speaker 1: were happening around their house, so these objects apparently were affected. Weird,

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Speaker 1: it's very weird and I have no doubt like that

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Speaker 1: was an intense if I recall that was Father Holleran

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Speaker 1: who led that particular exorcism, and several the eyewitnesses report

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Speaker 1: being physically heard and having nightmares for years afterwards. So

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Speaker 1: that was obviously inspired the most, you know, the most

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Speaker 1: terrifying movie I've ever seen. So of course it was

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Speaker 1: a little rough. When is this movie and Gabriel lamourth

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Speaker 1: going to come out? They're still working on it right now.

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Speaker 1: Russell Crowe is supposed to be playing Father of Morth

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Speaker 1: and they're looking at a release date of twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 1: I know, Russell Crowe, you do, I'll sign of a

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Speaker 1: text if this is happening. Oh so that was the

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Speaker 1: report I read a couple of weeks ago that he

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Speaker 1: was supposed to be playing father of more than I

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Speaker 1: thought at first. That's like, well, it's great. I didn't

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Speaker 1: know that. That's great. Yeah, he's a great actor. Oh

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Speaker 1: he's one of the best. Oh my gosh, I love

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Speaker 1: Did you see him in the movie Unhinged, the road

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Speaker 1: rage movie? Oh my gosh, yes, he was again surprisingly good.

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Speaker 1: I'm always amazed at his ability to play different parts. Now,

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Speaker 1: when Father Amorth died at the age of ninety one.

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Speaker 1: Did anything strange happen to him? Or did he just

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Speaker 1: pass on normally? All in all, he passed on normally.

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Speaker 1: What I think strange quote unquote was the fact that

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Speaker 1: he worked almost until the week he died, and so

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Speaker 1: he was still seeing people even when his health started

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Speaker 1: failing in his nineties. And I don't know many people

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Speaker 1: that want to work into their nineties, so that was

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Speaker 1: always impressive to me. Absolutely, what can people do to

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Speaker 1: block any kind of demonic possession from happening to themselves?

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Speaker 1: Is there any kind of protection? There certainly is. In

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Speaker 1: the Catholic Church, we have various ones like the Epiphany

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Speaker 1: blessing you might remember from your childhood that is actually

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Speaker 1: a minor rite of exorcism to protect your home from

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Speaker 1: anything that might want to follow you. And that's where

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Speaker 1: you draw a blessing, the cross and the date of

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Speaker 1: the doorways. So holy water is also a great one,

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Speaker 1: But the most powerful thing is prayer and also a

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Speaker 1: little humility that you don't have to go looking for things. Well,

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Speaker 1: when it happens, it happens in a big way. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't it, It certainly does. And like I said in

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Speaker 1: a lot of the cases covered by a recent exorcist.

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Speaker 1: It's been on the most recent book at Adam Blaize,

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Speaker 1: The Exorcist Files, which I edited, that he talked about

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Speaker 1: how a lot of these times it started out so

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Speaker 1: simple and so innocently. We were talking about Luigi Board,

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Speaker 1: but he met a doctor who had been dealing with

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Speaker 1: a demonic activity for something like twenty years. It would

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Speaker 1: literally follow him from place to place, and it all

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Speaker 1: started with him getting noticed to a spirit through the

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Speaker 1: Nuigi Board who promised him fame. When you do this

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Speaker 1: and you keep writing about it and studying it, are

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Speaker 1: you concerned that something could backlash on you? You know what?

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Speaker 1: It's an absolute concern that I did not take seriously

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Speaker 1: because I thought, I'm just an academic. I'm just studying this.

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Speaker 1: The first sign that something was going weird in my

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Speaker 1: life was, of all places, I was doing a radio

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Speaker 1: interview with Manco in the Warning Chicago Zone and we

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Speaker 1: were It was a lighthearted interview. He was joking with me,

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Speaker 1: but he asked me one question like it was something like,

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Speaker 1: what should people do if they're be in attacked by exorcists?

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Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, his whole studio Dart and

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Speaker 1: I mean everything. The producers called me a week later

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Speaker 1: to do the interview again because they couldn't get their

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Speaker 1: studio back up and it was the weirdest thing they'd

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Speaker 1: ever seen. And so that little incident has taught me

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Speaker 1: to basically make sure I'm myself in doing the right things,

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Speaker 1: keeping myself in prayer, not letting my curiosity take a

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Speaker 1: hold of me, and well definitely teaching me humility. Listen

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Speaker 1: to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at one

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Speaker 1: am Eastern, and go to Coast to Coast am dot

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Speaker 1: com for more