WEBVTT - Revealing Barry Sonnenfeld 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:06.560 I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing. 0:00:07.720 --> 0:00:12.000 The genius who shot the dark, evocative interiors of The 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:16.119 Cone Brothers Blood Simple also created the city scape of 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:20.360 Big and the intimacy of When Harry Met Sally. That 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:25.120 cinematographer is Barry Sonnenfeld, who, as if to show off, 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:29.760 followed up When Harry Met Sally with genre defining images 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:36.360 of terror and claustrophobia in Misery. Then that same cinematographer 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:41.160 left cinematography and became one of the most successful directors 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:46.879 in Hollywood. The year after Misery, Sonnenfeld's directorial debut, The 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:52.479 Adams Family, was released, two huge box office success. Sonnenfeld 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:56.440 went on to direct the brilliant mob comedy Get Shorty, 0:00:56.560 --> 0:01:00.800 The Men in Black Trilogy, and Some Wonderful TV. His 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:05.080 triumph in two different jobs on set is rare in Hollywood, 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:09.000 especially when you consider how very different the roles of 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:14.640 director and cinematographer are supposed to be. I called myself 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:18.160 not a cinematographer, not a DP. I called myself the 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:21.440 friend of the director. So I would just as easily 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:25.160 talk to a director about an actor's energy. You know how, 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:29.160 after lunch they're always uh the first takes are always 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:32.399 too slow because everyone's eating lunch and all that. Or 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:34.200 I would say, you know, I would think about how 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:37.319 it was going to edit. So I was never just 0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:41.640 a cameraman. And some people really like that. Who's an example. 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:43.880 Who's an example of one that did like that? Okay, 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:48.840 Danny de Vito, the Coen Brothers, not Penny Marshall? Uh? 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:52.280 Rob did? Rob Reiner? Did? I heard you wouldn interview? Said? 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:54.400 Penny said she was. She wanted to fire you. But 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:58.320 so who was it that said don't fire you? Danny? Yeah? Yeah, yeah. 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:02.520 The second week of I'm Big every morning, Penny started 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:05.160 today with a dozen white castles and a carton and 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:10.080 Marlborough cigarettes. And so the second Monday of shooting, she 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:12.320 came up to me at seven am with the white 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:15.600 castle in her mouth and said, I tried to fire you, 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:18.919 but they wouldn't let me. I said, who wouldn't let you, Penny? 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:21.720 They wouldn't let me. She says, I called Danny because 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:25.560 she was friends with Danny through uh what's his name, 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:29.280 Jim Brooks, you know that that group. And she said, 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:32.600 I asked Danny if you were good, and uh, he 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:36.000 said you are, but I don't think so. So that 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:39.720 was how we got God. Yes, she really didn't like 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:43.919 she was vigorously honest, Penny. She was very honest, but 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:48.240 she she hit her honesty in mumbling. She was a 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:50.919 genius in mumbling, so that if you wanted to hear 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:53.560 what she said, you did. But if you didn't want 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:55.960 to hear, you could pretend you just didn't hear her, 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:59.560 which is what four year old children do you do? 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:02.480 Bloods Simple is that the brothers first movie, the first 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:06.360 did you know run away? That they had the recipe? Yes, 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:09.160 but don't forget. It was my first day on the 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:12.600 feature film set. Also, I had never shot anything before. 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:17.239 Why did they hire you? Okay? Joel and I were 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:20.400 at the same party. It was a party that was 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:26.760 specifically people from Dairy Anne, Connecticut. All their parents owned 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:30.840 coal mines in Pennsylvania and islands in the Caribbean. And 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:33.040 there were two Jews at the party, Me and Joel. 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:35.120 We didn't know each other at film school or anything 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:38.480 like that, and we kind of smelled each other across 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:42.360 the room and we started to talk. And Joel and Ethan, 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:46.840 his brother, had written the script for Blood Simple, and 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:49.200 they were going to shoot a trailer as if it 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:52.080 were a finished movie and then show it to dentists 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:56.800 and doctors and investment clubs, because if you see a trailer, 0:03:56.880 --> 0:03:59.240 you can say, yeah, that looks like a real movie. 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:01.960 So also they were going to shoot a trailer and 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:04.080 then use a trailer to raise money. And I said, 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:08.040 I own a camera, and Joel said, you're hired. So 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:12.360 I shot their trailer. Before there was video, there was 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:15.160 sixteen millimeter, which was the cheaper way to go and 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:17.320 set a thirty five. And when I got out of 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:20.800 graduate film school, I figured if I bought a used 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:26.200 sixteen millimeter camera, I could call myself a cameraman without 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:29.320 being a dilettante, because I actually had a camera. You know, 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:32.359 the Vietnam cameras is sixteen millimeter cameras that looked like 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:35.760 Mickey Mouse with the big around cylinder. So I owned 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:40.000 used one of those, and so Joel and Ethan and 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:43.080 I spent the year raising the money for Blood Simple, 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:45.320 and then we went down to Austin and shot it. 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:46.960 And the first day on the set was the first 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:50.039 day Joel Ethan or I had ever been on a 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:54.880 movie set. But you would go into film school with 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:58.279 an eye to spending three years without having to be 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:01.359 in the job market. I had no interested in film. 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:04.520 I just thought if I was in graduate school, I 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:07.520 didn't have to look for a job killing time. I 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:11.080 really wanted to be a still photographer. But but but 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:13.039 I'm want to get back to this thing about the Collins. 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:15.560 So so it's the first day on the set for 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:18.400 all three of you. You're down there in Austin. When 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:20.880 you went into that process the first time and he 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:23.119 came out the other end, what changed for you because 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:26.080 you kept going, yes, I must say everything changed. You 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:30.400 have to Blood Simple. Uh. It got great reviews, critical 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:35.200 cult hit. Uh Rea Pearlman, Danny's wife went into labor 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:38.560 while watching Blood Simple. Danny told me years later, and 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:43.000 suddenly I was a real cameraman. In fact, Janet Maslin, 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:46.119 who wrote the review in The New York Times, said 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:50.400 that the Cohen brothers were going to be huge successes, 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:53.840 and she particularly the whole last paragraph is about my 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:57.760 cinematography and it mentions me by name, and it was shocking. 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:02.080 It was just phenomenal, as because Raising Arizona when that 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:04.800 came out. This is back in the days when I 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:08.640 used to read Sine asked magazine and Premier, which was 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:11.159 kind of fair with the people magazine of the movie business. 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:15.720 They talked about blankie cam. Yes, there was a blank acam. 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:18.680 There was a shaky cam. The blank acam was me 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:22.359 laying on a blanket holding a camera as I was 0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:26.479 directed to the dog that's right chasing them. That's bike 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:30.680 Acamville was laying on the blanket being pulled towards, hurtling 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:33.320 towards the victim that's right in the scene. And you 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:35.800 are the POV of the dom the POV you know, 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:40.279 Spinney cam with the camera. Yes, yeah, when Nick cages 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:43.440 sort of, we put Nick on this device and put 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:45.960 mounted the camera to his back and spun him around, 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:50.040 him around. Uh. Shaky cam is camera mounted on a 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:52.920 two by twelve with me at one end, in Joel 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:57.560 Cohen on the other end, and us running. Because it's 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:00.960 so long two by twelve, we could run up to 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:05.479 and then lift the board up over a fountain, a car, 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:09.640 up a ladder, through a window into Florence. Arizona's a math. 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:13.920 So we did all these. His idea of both Sam 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:18.520 Raimie's idea. Sam Raimie used to shaking camel lot on 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:21.680 his first Evil Dead, and Joel was the assistant editor 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:24.760 on Evil Dead. But you know what, I always say 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:28.240 that right now, we could have shot Raising Arizona with 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:31.480 modern equipment for ten times a budget and it wouldn't 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:33.760 look any different, right, not as good to tell you 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:37.560 the truth. Necessity, the mother is a mother. Um, when 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:40.440 you're on the set with these people, how much do 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:43.480 they know about lenses shooting do they? And which do 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:47.680 you prefer? The knowledgeable director in terms of cinema or 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:49.280 someone who to students you would say, what do you 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:53.480 want to do? You want someone who has strong opinions 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:56.040 because then you know that they know what they're doing. 0:07:56.560 --> 0:07:59.119 You don't want someone who says, do whatever you want 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:03.920 you really do. Penny truly didn't know lenses. So I 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:05.960 would say, you know, we'll start on the rug and 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:08.680 Tom's feet will come in and we'll boom back, and 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:12.560 then we'll discover that he's no longer a boy. Great, 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:15.800 and then we I line up the shot, show Penny 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:18.200 the shot and she goes, I see his feet, but 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:21.720 where's his head? I said, well, you know, we'll reveal 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:23.520 what She would say, well, yeah, but I want to 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:26.680 see his feet and his head and you go right, 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:29.400 but then you're wide because if you're seeing his feet 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:32.360 and his head, he's six ft tall. And she'd go, 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:35.600 I don't understand what you're doing, but would let me 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:38.720 do it? And it was. It was a nightmare, really was, 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:42.160 and I didn't enjoy the experience, even though I got 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:45.719 to put the camera wherever I wanted. Was hit, huge hit, 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:48.800 and it was the fourth movie after you know, it 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:52.880 was eighteen again with Judge Reinhold. There was oh god, 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:56.480 there were a series of movies about body switching comedies 0:08:56.840 --> 0:08:59.240 that came out right before us, and we were the 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:01.160 fourth one. And we assume the movie was going to 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:06.800 be uncuttable because it was. It was really hard. He 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:10.480 was great, and we really enjoyed working together. I think 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:14.880 it got a little bit um tends at the very 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:18.640 end of misery. I'll tell you why. Rob was always 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:23.079 saying I should direct, and I kept saying I had 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:26.040 no interest in directing, but I really you know, Kathy 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:29.560 Bates and I loved each other. Every every morning we 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:32.880 would meet and she would say, hey, son, and felt 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:35.320 f you, and I'd go, f you, Kathy, And you know, 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:38.720 it was that kind of relationship when and we both 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:42.040 and everyone hated Jimmy con Rob and I hated Jimmy 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:45.160 so much that when one day Jimmy said, Hey, Rob, 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:48.800 how far do you want me to crawl? And Rob 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:51.120 said to me back, how far should he crawl? And 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:57.040 I literally spit on the floor and I said to 0:09:57.160 --> 0:10:01.360 their and Rob said, crawled to the loogie Jimmy, Yes, 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:06.000 curl to the lugi Jimmy so uh so. And then 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:09.160 at the very end the last two weeks of Miseries, 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:13.920 when when I told Rob I might become a director, 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:18.040 I think the last two weeks, suddenly my friend of 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:22.880 the director thing became a oh, Barry thinks he's a 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:28.160 director thing. It was it was Barry's changed. And at 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:30.440 the end of Misery we didn't talk to each other 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:33.040 for a couple of years. And then Sweetie and I 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:36.920 were Mr Chows in Beverly Hills name dropping thing, and 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:41.000 um I saw Robin Michelle eating a couple of tables away, 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:43.200 and I went up and I said, Hey, should we 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:47.440 be friends again? And Rob said absolutely, and just like that, 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:50.520 and Sweetie was nervous, what's going to happen? I said, 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:55.000 but you know what? Yeah, And it was like that 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:57.400 who are actors you worked with? Who when you were 0:10:57.400 --> 0:10:59.920 shooting with him as a director or DP that you went, 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:03.000 oh my god, what a great opportunity. This is Kathy Bates, 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:06.560 Kathy Bates and Misery. In fact, Kathy was my idea. 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:10.240 Rob wanted Bette Midler for the role and I said, 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:13.480 you know what, maybe, but you should see Kathy. I 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:16.480 had seen her in Night Mother on Broadway and she 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:21.680 was extraordinary and Rob hired her. So Cathy was. Kathy 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:24.720 was one of those actors that until the take, no 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:28.200 matter how if she was supposed to cry or be furious, 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:31.560 would just joke around. There was no method acting, there 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:34.080 was nothing. We just goof around and then it would 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:36.120 be action. Turn it on and then turn it on. 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:39.920 And here Shirley McClain was like that, but I don't 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:42.920 mean playful and silly. But Meryl was somebody that access 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:46.680 is what she wants to access very handily for the 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:52.040 most part. So Kathy was great. Um when as a DP, 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:55.400 you know, it's it's interesting because as a d P, 0:11:57.240 --> 0:12:01.640 I never really got actors and I never really understood 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:04.480 what they needed. And I always felt they were a 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:07.280 little bit of the enemy because they would rehearse looking 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:10.360 this way, so you'd light with the key light being, 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:12.439 you know, to the left, and then they would come 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:15.120 in and shoot it and they would do something totally different. 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:18.959 So I remember one night on when Harry met Sally, 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:22.440 we had a very long walk and talk on West Broadway. 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:25.760 It was probably a hundred yards, and we laid track 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:29.640 because I never liked steadicam endless track. We had a 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:33.600 two and ten ft lighting condor, really huge set up, 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:39.160 and it was Bruno, Carrie, Billy and Meg and it's 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:42.559 a four shot with no coverage. And during the rehearsals 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:46.040 they didn't know their lines, so they're talking slowly and 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:49.080 but now they go to hair and makeup, they've learned 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:52.280 their lines, and now they're racing through it and they're 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:56.600 going eighty feet past where I'm lit. And I remember 0:12:56.600 --> 0:12:58.760 going to Rob and I said, hey, Rob, you know 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:01.959 they're they've got a up here and hit their mark. 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:05.280 And Rob would try to get Meg to hit her 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:08.240 mark and it never worked, and I realized, here's what 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:10.960 to do. So instead of saying to Meg, can you 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:13.560 really hit that mark? I said, hey, Meg, stop wherever 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:18.400 you want. If you happen to stop here, your lit beautifully, 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:21.160 and then she would stop there every time, so I 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:25.079 had to make it give her reason why she wanted 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:27.480 to stop there, as opposed to why I needed her 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:30.120 to say. That's incredibly significant to me because I always 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:33.760 prided myself what I called my triangulation with the camera. 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:36.640 The joke version is I put my hands on the 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:38.760 shoulders of the guy and be like, now, Bob, listen 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:40.240 to me, and I jerked him out of my lights 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:42.800 right right, Bob, You've got to listen to me. You've 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:45.600 gotta understand, and you might him over, you know whatever 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:48.199 I would do to a comedy to get the shot 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:51.280 that's right. At what point do you begin to really 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:54.600 burn with the passion if you will to direct? I 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:58.720 had no passion to direct. I was in l A 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:02.920 finishing the color timing on Misery, which ended up being 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:05.480 the last movie. No, no, I'm sorry. The last two 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:08.360 weeks of shooting, I remember now and Sweedie and I 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:12.400 were at the Four Seasons Hotel on Doheny watching the 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:17.280 Indianapolis five in bed and the phone rang and the 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:19.760 front dusk said, Scott Ruden has just dropped off a 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:22.320 script for you. He wants you to read. Read it. 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:25.360 And meet him at in two hours. That hugoes, I 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:27.360 don't know if you ever eat. Of course, to Hugo 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:29.600 all the time in West Hollywood, the pasta with the 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:35.960 scrambled eggs. So and there was this nose saying, read this, 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:39.000 I want you to direct it. It was Adams family. 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:42.320 That's right, I read it. It wasn't very good. I 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:45.440 said to Sweetie, this isn't good. She says, you'll make 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:48.520 it better. Scott will make it better. I had known 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:50.640 Scott a little bit, and this is why he wanted 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:54.080 me to direct it. He went to Terry Gilliam and 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:57.840 Tim Burton and they both passed on Adam's family. Scott 0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:02.280 told me at lunch he would rather have of visual stylist. 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:05.760 And he was ahead of Paramount Productions when I shot 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:10.720 Big and and Raising Arizona, so he knew I could 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:13.880 could shoot and had a very specific point of view, 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:16.280 like you were saying that the camera can be sort 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:19.280 of a character in the show, you know. So he said, 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:22.400 all the good directors passed, so I figured I'd give 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:26.920 you a chance. But which is all? That's right. I've 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:30.160 been there before now. I directed one movie. I hated 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:33.040 every minute of it. I hated it. Here's what I did. 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:36.440 I looked at and you you mentioned him earlier, but 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:39.360 I looked at what Jan da Bant did. Gordon Willis 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:43.760 shot a movie called Windows, Bill Freaker shot Legend of 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:48.000 the Lone Ranger. These are all famous dps. John Alonzo 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:51.520 who had shut Chinatown, and Farewell, My Lovely Great Cameraman 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:55.440 shot f M. None of them directed a second movie. 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:59.000 And the reason was they all moved up their camera 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:02.680 operator d P, which means they didn't want to give 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:06.440 up the camera, right, So by just not hiring a 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:08.920 good cameraman, they would still be in charge of the camera. 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:11.000 They didn't do for a d d P what a 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:14.000 director had done for that. That's right, that's right. So 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:17.040 what I did is I said, I need the greatest 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:21.360 cameraman I can find, so I'll never say, shouldn't at 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:26.240 ten k go over there? So I hired a really great, 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:31.240 cranky guy named Owen Roisman, who shot you know, um 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:35.640 oh Tutsi and millions of many, many great films. And 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:37.920 I said to and I said, look, I'll never get 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:41.000 involved in your lighting. I just want you to agree 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:44.320 to a couple of things. One is I want Angelica Euston, 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:47.600 who played more Tisha, to have her own motivated light. 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:50.080 I don't care if she's standing right by the window, 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:53.720 that's not where the light should come from. She's in 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:56.880 another zip code. She should look like a herral. So 0:16:57.080 --> 0:17:00.320 Owen loved the idea, and I said, and I would 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:02.680 like to design the shots because I know how I'm 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:04.959 going to edit it. And he said, makes it easier 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:08.640 for me. So to this day, from Adam's family, through 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:12.080 a series of unfortunate events, whenever I say cut, check 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:14.359 the gate, even though there's no longer a gate to 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:18.119 check the cameras has enhanced me the viewfinder and I 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:22.880 line up the next shot. The thing is, when you're there, 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:25.560 you're first film with Ruden, when you're in pre production 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:27.560 making the film, does he defer to you when you 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:30.239 wanted Raoul Julia, and you wanted this one and this 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:34.399 one and this one. Okay, so we agreed on Raoul 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:38.639 and Angelica. We totally disagreed on Wednesday. I really wanted 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:42.480 Christina Ricci and he wanted this other girl who had 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:46.440 hyper thyroid eyes that looked more like raw Julia. And 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:50.480 luckily David Reuben, who is a casting agent, agreed with me. 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:53.880 But here's how I doubt it. Ruden Ruden. I love 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:56.040 Here's my quote about Ruden. I love him and I 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:59.600 wish he were dead. Um uh, you know Nick and 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:05.359 tonys in him. Of course. I saw Robert Benton eating 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:08.320 dinner with his wife Sally, and I knew that he 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:11.000 was flying the next day with Scott Ruden to London 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:13.800 for Nobody's school. And I went up to Benton. I 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:16.280 had never met him before. They were both at Nick 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:18.800 and we were finishing dinner at nick Cantons. They were 0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:22.359 studying a great guy, lovely, and I went up to 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:23.960 him and I said, excuse me, you don't know me. 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:25.919 My name is Barry's son and fell I just wanted 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:27.760 you to know that I know you're flying to London 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:30.280 tomorrow with Scott Ruten. I just wanted to tell you that, 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:34.240 even though you're brilliant director Places in the Heart, Cramer 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:37.119 Versus Cramer, all these movies, I so want your plane 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:41.080 to go down in a flaming wreck where you survived, 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:44.680 but Scott Rutten dies. And literally he looked at me 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:48.480 and said, sit down, young man, and what's you're sweetie? 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:52.720 Oh welcome, And we became friends for decades, so Ruden 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:59.400 was Ruten was very difficult, very brilliant. He really didn't 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:04.199 care about the lodgect. He didn't understand shooting visually. I 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:06.480 remember there was a setup that I wanted to play 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:10.000 in a Master because sometimes if you look at screwball 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:17.240 comedies like His Girl Friday Sturgis comedy plays in the Master, right, 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:20.840 you see action and reaction in the same shot. Right, yeah, 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:22.840 let me have to hear her throw in a magazine. 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:25.240 My favorite line in the Marks Brothers movie when Crouse 0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:28.040 she gets thrown into a bathroom. But in any case, 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:30.840 um so I set up the shot and it only 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:36.720 worked without inserts or close ups, because like Charles Adams's cartoons, 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:40.280 you want the audience to find a joke, right. You 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:42.199 don't want to say, here's the punch line in a 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:46.520 close up, and Ruden insisted I cover it. I said, okay, well, 0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:48.760 let me get the master perfect so I don't have 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:52.480 to have the coverage. And I got it perfect, and 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:54.200 then I moved in for a close up and he said, 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:55.720 what are you doing. I said, well, you want me 0:19:55.800 --> 0:19:58.199 to cover it? He said, no, it's perfect. So he 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:02.040 just has to be proved to show him, And the 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:04.720 secret to working with Ruden is to out juvenile him. 0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:07.919 So when we had a fight in pre production, I 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:11.479 would remove all of his couches cushions and build a 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:15.479 fort and crawl into the fort, close the last pillow 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:17.920 and yell, I can't hear you. I'm in the fort. 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:22.400 And what was great about Scott is he totally accepted 0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:25.840 the sanctity of the fort. He would never pick up 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:29.280 a pillow and say, schmuck, there is no fort. He screamed, 0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:31.760 get out of the fort. But he would never just 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:35.520 pick up. He respected the fort. And eventually you say, 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:38.160 all right, fine, just get out. We'll talk about it. 0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:41.320 I just worshiped Raoul. I mean, was he everything that 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:45.600 I thought he was? Yes? He was. He loved being alive, 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:50.560 he loved himself, he loved acting, he loved women. I 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:55.120 remember asking him we were having dinner one night, uh 0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:57.439 in l A, and I said, would you ever direct? 0:20:57.480 --> 0:20:59.560 And he said, why would I want to direct? I'm 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:02.879 gonna act and he meant it. And I remember on 0:21:03.000 --> 0:21:06.080 Adam's Family Values, this is scene where Raoul is really 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:10.320 angry and he's throwing darts and lurches holding the dartboard 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:13.560 and moving it around because Raoul is so angry he's missed. 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:16.800 You know, he's not throwing it right, So Lurch is 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:19.840 like holding it up and he keeps getting bull's eyes 0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:23.399 but it's knocking off of walls and we we rehearse it, 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:27.439 and Raoul said, very let me ask you a question. 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:34.440 You know, Gomez is a perfect marksman. Even if he's angry, 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:37.080 he would hit or drunk, he would hit a bull's 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:40.680 eye every time. He wouldn't bang off from walls and lambs, 0:21:40.720 --> 0:21:43.960 and Lurch wouldn't have to. This is Gomez. Gomez doesn't 0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:48.000 need that. And I go, well, here's the thing, Raoul, 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:50.720 and he said, right, the thing is, it's not funny, 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:53.479 so let's keep going. So he wanted me to know 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:56.439 that what we were doing was wrong, and that he 0:21:56.560 --> 0:21:58.480 was so smart he knew it was wrong, but then 0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:02.120 he was okay with it. So he was fantastic. When 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:07.119 I see that film Joan Cusack, I mean, who in 0:22:07.160 --> 0:22:10.879 the world is funnier than Joan Cusack. No, nobody, And 0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:14.720 I said to John, because Joan has an amazingly hideous laugh. 0:22:14.800 --> 0:22:18.080 It's like a cackle. And I said to her, and 0:22:18.160 --> 0:22:21.200 she was single at the time. I said, someday someone 0:22:21.359 --> 0:22:23.760 is going to fall in love with you because of 0:22:23.840 --> 0:22:26.480 that laugh, and once they marry you, they're going to 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:31.080 hate you because of that laugh. She was so game 0:22:31.200 --> 0:22:35.800 and so winning, and her whole Malibu Barbie speeches brilliant. 0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:40.040 And my favorite moment is, Uh, Joan blows up her 0:22:40.040 --> 0:22:42.840 house to kill faster, and there's a close up of 0:22:42.880 --> 0:22:47.000 her sort of weeping, and without any cut, she goes 0:22:47.040 --> 0:22:51.960 from weeping to my favorite scene, which says, off, sir, 0:22:52.400 --> 0:22:54.960 my husband was in the house. That's right, and she 0:22:55.000 --> 0:22:57.480 does the laugh. Then she comes out of the car. Help. 0:22:59.520 --> 0:23:02.520 I of that movie. I love I love, love love 0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:08.320 that movie. Another Hollywood double threat is the man Stanley Kubrick, 0:23:08.440 --> 0:23:12.919