WEBVTT - The Mass Protests in Kenya 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:10.360 All Zone Media. 0:00:06.600 --> 0:00:08.360 Welcome to take it up and here a show that 0:00:08.400 --> 0:00:11.120 today is very urgently about things falling apart in Kenya 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:13.600 and how to put them back together again. I'm your host, 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:17.200 Miya Wong. What you're about to hear is an interview 0:00:17.239 --> 0:00:20.120 about the Kenyan protests that was recorded on Sunday, July 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:23.239 twenty third. At time of recording, it is now Tuesday, 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:25.200 the twenty fifth, and in that two day span, the 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:29.600 situation and Kenya has gotten significantly worse. Kenyan police are 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:32.760 firing live ammo into crowds of protesters. They've killed at 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:35.440 least five people today. That numbers expected to rise as 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:38.960 more protesters die in hospitals. The government has deployed the 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:40.839 army and shut down much of the internet in an 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:44.040 attempt to stop news from getting out. On Kenyan TV, 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:47.080 political leaders called the protesters criminals and a threat to 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:52.000 national security. Meanwhile, protesters made good on their slogan occupied 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:55.200 Parliament by storming and then partially burning down the Parliament building. 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:58.600 As politicians continue to meet their demands with bullets. What 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:02.560 we've seen today is terrifying cop shooting live ammo into churches, 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:06.160 Cops opening fire on people waiting for medical care. Meanwhile, 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:09.119 to the fury of the protesters, Kenyan troops arrived today 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:11.680 in Haiti to begin a US backed occupation of the country. 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:15.920 We spent this interview largely discussing the local Kenyan political leads, 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:18.760 but this is also an international crisis. Much of the 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:21.600 impetus for the brutal tax increases on basic goods came 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:25.080 from an International Monetary Fund bailout deal that required Kenya 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:27.600 to increase its taxes to twenty five percent of the 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:32.600 country's GDP. Thus, Kenyans are being robbed twice, once by 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:34.880 the Kenyan political masters of the cops shooting them in 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:37.600 the streets, and again by the IMF and their neolibal 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:41.840 wealth extraction program. As the struggle continues. Let us now 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:44.240 turn to our interview into a more optimistic time in 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:46.319 the movement to get a real understanding of what the 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:51.680 protests are about. Welcome to it could happen here a 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:55.720 podcast where the here is currently Kenya. Yeah, I'm your host, 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:58.960 Miya Wong, and we are going to talk about a 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:01.400 bunch of protests and a bunch of very very very 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:03.760 interesting sort of political developments in Kenya that I think 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:08.959 have gotten very distressingly little coverage in in the sort 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:11.959 of like Anglophone maation media. And with me to talk 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:14.760 about that is Justine Wanda is a stand up comedian, 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:18.600 a political satirist, and a writer who's created Fake Book 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:21.200 with Justine about well basically all the stuff that we're 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:22.919 going to be talking about today are the are the 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:25.760 things you will see on this show. Justine, Welcome to 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:26.160 the show. 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:29.480 Thank you so much for having me me. How are 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:29.880 you doing? 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:33.200 Ah? You know, this is this This is one of 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:36.320 those morning recordings. So I'm a little bit unhinged, but 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:39.919 it's okay, We're I'm really excited to talk to you. 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:44.880 So yeah, yeah, I'm really excited to talk to you. 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:45.519 And I yeah. 0:02:45.560 --> 0:02:48.160 So I think I think the place to start here 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:52.400 is can you talk about so? So these protests are 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:57.079 about an upcoming finance bill, So let's talk about what 0:02:57.080 --> 0:03:00.440 what actually is this bill and what seeing it? 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:04.800 Okay, So for me to be able to talk about 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:08.000 the finance bill, I have to talk about the finance 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:13.680 bill that was past last year. So in twoy twenty three, 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:16.520 we had a financi will that was passed. Most of 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:20.640 the financial last year had something called the Housing levy, 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:26.360 which basically requires every single Kenyon who's employed to remove 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:28.720 a little bit of their salary to go directly to 0:03:28.800 --> 0:03:34.480 pay for an account where they'll pull the money to build. 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:36.000 Kenyon's affordable houses. 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:40.600 And in Kenya, housing is not especially a crisis in 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:44.280 rural areas because most people have their own personal films. 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:47.800 The issue is usually the urban centers where housing is 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:52.480 actually very expensive and it's very poorly infrastructured, like there's 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:56.200 no water, sometimes there's no electricity in certain parts, like 0:03:56.280 --> 0:04:00.400 people have done a lot of illegal collection connections. So 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:04.120 last year the bill was kind of rummed through and 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:05.800 there was so much public participation. 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:08.600 Actually in the beginning that was like. 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:11.440 A lot of people got angry about the bill forcing 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:14.320 people to take money out of their pockets to contribute 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:16.160 to a fund that didn't seem like they had a plan. 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:20.480 And a lot of politicians were actually on TV and 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:23.000 everyone was watching every interview and they're like, you don't 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:27.320 make any sense, we don't understand. Yeah, it's like what 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:31.200 is that money for? We're not sure, but we know 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:33.599 we're to building houses. How are you going to manage 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:35.440 the money? Who's going to be in charge of the 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:39.360 money how is this? Like every single aspect was met 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:42.840 by like some form of deflection or like a lie, 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:47.479 just like a lot of there wasn't any accountability in 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:50.599 the in what they were telling us. And even the 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:53.240 person who was in charge was like on TV, he 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:54.000 was sweating. 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:55.960 He looked like he was lying though who time. 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:01.040 So everyone was like, if this is how you're speaking 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:04.640 about it when we aren't giving out money, what will 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:08.479 happen after the fact. But the bill sailed through, and 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:11.880 one of the elements that was in that field that 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:15.719 wasn't even in the news was that avocado farmers in 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:18.880 the country will start with charging us, will be charged 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:21.280 a certain amount of money on their produce and they 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:23.760 have to produce receipts on this every single day. 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:27.240 What like if yes, if you sell like. 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:31.640 An avocado, one avocado or of avocadoes, you have to 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:34.960 do a breakdown of like your sales and like provide 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:38.080 recists to the government and then like you're charged for it. 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:43.279 Oh my god, yes, And the MPs this. 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:47.000 Like earlier this year, were like when the bill usually 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:50.240 like sometimes it takes a while for the closest to 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:51.039 come into effect. 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:52.600 It takes like maybe a. 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:55.520 Couple of months, So the the amount the farmers were 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:58.160 supposed to get charged was supposed to go live on 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:03.880 sorry in February or something. So in February, farmers are 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:07.160 getting attacked by like the Kenya Revenue Authority. They're being 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:09.200 told you need to provide these receipts and everything, and 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:12.320 everyone is like, I don't understand because we weren't informed. 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:15.760 And then the politicians who did not read the bill 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:18.600 but past it were like, oh, we didn't read the document. 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:19.640 It was too big. 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:26.159 What yes, exactly, So like that kind of information was 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:29.359 what that was what was on the news just before 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:32.680 they introduced now the financial twenty four So it's like, 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:34.599 we know you didn't read the one from last year. 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:40.159 You passed a bunch of bills that you didn't understand 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:43.160 the impact of it in the long term, so why 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:46.480 should you Why should Kenyans trust you with this new one? 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:49.320 And then they were like, no, we have the best 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:52.600 economic interests that had And then everyone was like, but 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:56.279 the bill you passed last year to increase revenue didn't work, 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:00.680 So if it didn't work, what makes you having a 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:03.360 bunch of new taxes they're going to work? And they 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:07.400 couldn't answer that and now this finance built enter wants 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:10.200 to introduce much of your call tax where if you 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:14.440 own a car, you will pay like a certain amount 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:20.240 like I think two percent that's of the voliation of 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:24.520 your car, and you paid to your insurance company every 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:25.400 single year. 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:26.760 Wait to insurance? 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:29.080 What what? 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:29.280 Why? 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:33.400 Wait? Hold on? So why why is the tax? 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:35.600 Why is this being paid to the insurance company? 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:39.520 Because that's that's how people are asking. It's like, we 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:43.320 understand because insurance and Kenya is mostly run by private 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:47.920 entities know exactly what they're doing, so it's more like 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:50.640 a way to privates and get money into peoples so 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:53.880 we can't see and then end up being stolen and 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:56.680 there will be no accountability. But they say it's easier 0:07:56.960 --> 0:08:00.000 because the insurance company is already handled this kind of stuff. 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:03.720 So on top of your insurance, on top of the 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:06.600 insurance you pay for your car, you pay the motor 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:10.480 vehicle tax as part of that. And I'm like, that's ridiculous. 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:13.800 We don't trust our money on any given day. Why 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:17.000 would you think we would just to suddenly with a 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:21.280 bunch of money being branded by a private from somewhere 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:23.320 Because they're not going to show us their books. 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:27.240 Yes, it seems like part of this too, is just 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:30.320 that the sort of tax infrastructure isn't very like, the 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:32.840 tax collection infrastructure isn't very good, because you would think 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:36.000 that that wouldn't be that hard for the government to 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:39.679 just collect, but instead we have like a like an 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:42.000 Ottoman style tax farming situation. 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:47.520 So I love it you say that, because like that's 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:50.200 how that's exactly how it feels like everything is run. 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:51.440 It's very. 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:54.720 Yeah, as much as people in the room, we can't 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:57.120 make the wrong decision, but you've made the wrong decision 0:08:57.160 --> 0:08:59.640 again and again and again, and now we're like, we 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:02.360 want to see the approach. We want to understand how 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:04.960 this is going to work in the face of unemployment, 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:08.040 in the face of like the country has not been 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:12.400 in good economic trajectory for a while now, and that 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:16.080 those economic shocks can be felt. A lot of people 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:19.360 are closing down their businesses, a lot of people are downsizing, 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:23.439 which means it's less people employed. Even the beauty industry, 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:26.840 which is mostly like run on inputs because they're charging 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:30.400 so much input duty. The beauty industry can't even stand 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:35.160 on its own. So people are not just buying less makeup. 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:37.440 It's like people who are those stores and any of 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:40.400 those kinds of businesses can't even have the like their 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:42.559 person who comes to get their job days. 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:44.240 It becomes a bit of a problem. 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:46.840 So everyone is like, if you're going to charge us more, 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:49.400 you have to have an infrastructure. 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:49.960 That works for us. 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:51.040 Yeah. 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:51.640 Yeah. 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:54.760 Another tax that they're adding on the finance bill is 0:09:54.800 --> 0:10:00.400 the input duty fee to like sanitary towers, wheelchair higher, 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:04.200 like because like Kenya doesn't manufacture a lot of stuff. 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:08.640 So you find like our like the pad manufacturing industry 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:13.240 in Kenya, like sanitary towers, only two percent are manufactured here, 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:16.600 like a big chunk comes from outside, and they want 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:19.559 to increase their input duty on that. So that means 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:21.840 the pads in the market are going to be even 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:22.720 more expensive. 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:26.160 Yeah, and and that's something that like that that's not 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:28.760 that's not a like that's that's that's that's not a 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:31.480 luxury good. You just need that. 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:32.480 Yeah. 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:36.440 So everyone was like, Okay, I guess that we'll just 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:40.240 have to stop having periods. Is like that that's what 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:45.120 you're saying, Like we're gonna have to magically, Yeah, we're 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:47.280 gonna have to figure out magically with nature to just 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:49.880 stop having periods because you guys want to tax us 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:54.320 in this particular way, and it's it's not just like 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:59.160 the small things, because like the problem with the Kenyon's. 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:02.920 Piece, especially sensitive issues. So our. 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:10.079 Our third president, his name was Mike Baki, was the first, 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:13.360 one of the first presidents in the world to remove 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:18.120 v ty on sanitary towers. Like he was seen as 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:21.600 like someone who's setting an example for so many people. 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:26.080 And then the fact that this is happening when this 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:29.640 country was seen as like a chin setter to like 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:31.959 not just African countries, but other countries around the world 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:36.840 when it comes to like very important goods, it was 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:40.360 felt like we were going backwards and not in a way. 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:43.000 It's not like we didn't have an example to follow. 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:46.200 We actually did have a set president on like how 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:47.840 an economy is supposed to work. 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:51.640 So everyone who's grown up in this particular environment. 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:55.480 Where they felt safe and protected by the government and 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:57.840 like the government taking they live on very important issues 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:02.800 was like, you can't say building Kenya, buying Kenya is 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:07.440 a top priority for you when even electricity costs are expensive. Yeah, 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:10.600 because even this will adds like a fuel levy tax 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:15.760 it it's going up by seven shillings, which is way 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:19.360 too expensive. So you pay for your fuel, but like 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:21.880 most of the charges on the fuel is just their 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:26.280 levies and taxes, and they're adding a little bit more year. 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:30.000 And it seems like from the way that these are 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:32.920 being structured that you know, I mean, one of the 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:35.640 things with direct like I guess we call them sales 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:39.959 taxes here, is that they're incredibly regressive. The people who 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:42.160 get affected the most by it are the people who 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:46.080 you don't have that much money versus something like doing 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:48.760 you know, versus doing like an income tax, and like 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:51.440 the people who are the highest owners. This is the 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:53.880 burden of this falls entirely on people who are poor 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:54.800 and can't afford it. 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:59.200 Yes, that's I think it's very scary to think a 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:01.960 lot of our poll titians because they get paid with 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.880 tax payer money, and what they did when during when 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:07.439 they were writing, when they were contributing to the budget, 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:10.880 they were like, we want, we want this and this, 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:12.800 want to be added for this and this thing. 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:15.079 But the problem is, like when you look. 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:17.080 Deep down what they're looking for, they don't want to 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:20.200 pay taxes off of their salaries. They want to find 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:23.040 a way for taxpayers to pay for part of the 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:25.000 taxes that are being added so that they. 0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:26.720 Don't have to lose money. 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:29.680 And every yeah, everyone is like, we know you're budgeting 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:33.720 for corruption. We can see you, we can see still, 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:36.160 we can see you still, and we don't want to 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:39.040 be part of that. And now to them, it was like, 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:42.480 we're being aggressive because we want we want them to 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:46.000 be held accountable for their very punitive for the punitive 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:49.080 measures that they're sending to like regular opinions. As you said, 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:53.320 a lot of sales taxes affect every day before and 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:56.560 we don't know how else to stop it. And I 0:13:56.600 --> 0:14:00.319 think that's why the protesters. So they're catching fire. Everyone 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:01.640 wants to be out in the street. 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:05.480 Yeah, and we are going to we are going to 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:07.320 come back and talk about the protests in a second, 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:10.680 but first I here, here are some products and services 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:14.400 that are I don't know, probably also being taxed. 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:30.480 But all right, and we are back. Yeah, So okay. 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:33.320 I think I think people should should have like a 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:37.920 decent understanding of the fact that these taxes are these 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:40.680 are taxes on basic commodities that people need. And that's 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:44.920 one of the easiest ways to start a protest movement 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:47.440 is to suddenly make it too expensive to live. So 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:51.640 let's talk about who, Yeah, how how these protests sort 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:54.080 of started and how they've been being organized. 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:57.920 My issues that we can't really say how the protests started, 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:01.080 but there was a lot of anger by Kenyons online 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:04.800 because Kenyons are chronically online, like especially the younger generation, 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:07.480 a lot of people have cell phones, a lot of 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:10.200 people are not tuned into the news really, but the 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:13.720 information sharing happens where like when a clip from the 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:16.360 news is cut put on tiptop, people's see it like 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:19.560 this is happening, so so could get angry and then 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:23.360 they shared. So what happened with the the finance book. 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:27.840 People would cut very little clips from the news and 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:30.120 then someone would help put it in context. So that's 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:33.360 where my channel comes in, where I'm not just using 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:36.800 the news clips and provide evidence like I've go through 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:39.600 the finance built and then even consult with people who 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:44.400 are in like like ask lawyers on Twitter, like people 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:47.160 who have resources and understand the law or like what 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:49.840 that would mean for everyday canyons. I would literally reach 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:52.600 out and it got to a point where I am 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:56.680 now in communication with the right channels, like you can 0:15:56.720 --> 0:15:59.640 directly ask how this would impact people, like if they 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:03.920 tax bread more or like refuse to make it easier 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:07.160 for suppliers to get items for the supply chain. How 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:10.560 does this affect everyday people? So that helps bridge the 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:14.880 graph of information and now with more people critically not 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:18.520 just looking at the news but finding the evidence for themselves. 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:20.680 Really have helped us get to a point where when 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:24.440 you share, we are protesting about this issue. This is 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:27.200 where we're going, this is what's happening, this this will 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:30.240 happen in a certain town. So like Nairobi had its 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:37.000 own occupy parliament reject the financial demonstration, it happened in 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:41.360 Mombasa too, it happened in neary Elder at all these 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:44.040 smaller towns where people were living. But they are people 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:46.760 from rural areas, they won't really care. And I'm like, 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:50.160 you don't know that. Yeah. 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:54.200 And also something that's really magical that's happened. A lot 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:57.120 of Canons were like, Okay, maybe there there are a 0:16:57.120 --> 0:16:59.280 lot of Kenyons who live in rural areas who don't 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:04.320 have media that doesn't cater to traditional listeners, like people 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:09.280 who only speak certain languages so vernacular stations. So people 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:13.879 started using TikTok to do direct translation. It's like this 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:16.000 is the script, Yes, this is the script for the 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:18.800 for the financi buildings. Are the taxes being added. This 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:20.600 is the tax on bread, This is the tax on 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:23.120 your on your vehicle. This is the tax that will 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:27.080 happen on like period and sanitary paths and diapers and everything. 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:29.520 So someone does the whole we've done in their vernacular 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:32.080 language and they share it on their family WhatsApp groups 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:33.600 called penance love wksapp. 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:35.119 That's why if. 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:38.159 You're if you want to do anything proper Ganda like, 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:42.360 you can easily both on WhatsApp. Before messages are crazy. 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:48.360 So because like WhatsApp is mostly co opted by antis 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:51.119 and moms and people who love to share. Please go 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:54.040 to chat share share these to seven friends. People took 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:55.960 that Monday to where they send it to their moms 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:58.400 and then have it shared like seven of their friends 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:02.119 who don't understand what the finance BILLI entails. And that 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:04.520 is really changing the landscape of like who gets to 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:07.160 interpret the bills, who gets to understand how. 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:07.960 It influences them. 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:11.439 And it's been very very effective, So people who are 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:15.080 passive are more and more understanding of like why everyone 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:16.160 is on the streets. 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:17.560 Yeah. 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:20.800 Yeah, it seems like it almost seems like there isn't 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:23.439 there's kind of a I don't know, it's like a 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:26.320 TikTok think tank that's been sort of doing this valuation 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:28.440 that has been spread through That's that's really cool. 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:32.959 I'm just saying, it's absolutely lovely to see because like 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:37.560 tribalism has been a tool that's been wielded, especially during elections, 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:40.040 to make Kenyons look like they don't care about each 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:43.240 other and they can't go beyond their differences. 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:45.600 And this time it's like, yeah, we do. 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:48.320 Have language barriers, but we're not going to let that 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:51.480 affect us negatively. We're going to figure out our way 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:55.000 through the noise before they start co opting those spaces 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:58.720 and start saying, oh, gen z kids are lying or 0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:01.640 millennials are just started getting money, so why would they 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:05.080 care about taxes? And so everyone is making sure that 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:06.520 those spaces are not corrupted. 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:07.240 Yeah. 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:10.520 Yeah, it seems like a really sort of incredible popular 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:12.680 education thing that's. 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:13.720 Been empowering this. 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:17.960 Yeah, so I want to, I guess talk about I 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:21.760 mean one of the things that I think maybe kind 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:25.119 of breached the I don't know. Calling it like the 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:27.960 Great Firewall is exactly right, but it's like I think 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:29.240 one of I think one of the parts of this 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:32.600 that has gotten a little bit of play in the 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:35.400 sort of media over here has been the police response, 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:39.159 which has been terrible. Yeah, we talked about what the 0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:39.880 cops have been. 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:48.680 Doing, Okay, in Kenya protests Historically, protests have always been 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:53.639 extremely violent, Like during the Moi era, people used to 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:58.080 get beaten, alocked. Moy was also president. He was in 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:00.480 office for twenty four years, so he. 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:05.160 Was a powerholder. I use those words, there's a powerholder. 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:06.840 He didn't want to go anywhere. 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:09.760 He wanted to stay in power for as long as 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:13.920 he could and to counter anyone who would go against him. 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:19.119 People were tortured, people were disappeared, people were killed and 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:22.600 like dropped in forest. Many families couldn't find their members, 0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:24.800 especially if they went out of protest or do anything. 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:29.239 That's why Wangaimata is story who's like one of the 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:34.160 biggest environment total champions the world has ever seen. Her 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:36.760 story was so unique because in the face of the 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:39.800 most brutal dictators countries, every thing, she showed up and 0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:45.000 like she didn't just disagree but she bought back, and 0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:47.199 she did she use the same tactics that people are 0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:50.639 using now. She informed the very ignored part of the 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:54.440 population to get the information across that if they start 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:58.960 taking away your land and patting down your tree and 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:01.600 you won't be able to farm, I won't have anything. 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:03.080 This is this whole place is going to be at 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:05.639 their set in a couple of years. So everyone was 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:08.400 panicking because like, land is a very sensitive issue yea. 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:10.840 And that's why the movement worked. 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:13.560 So well because she was not speaking she was not 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:16.720 just speaking against authority that she was going to like 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:21.240 the people who who were going to be affected the most. 0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:24.560 And during those protests, she was beaten up. Her hair 0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:27.840 was like young to her head. It was very Yeah, 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:30.520 it was very graphic and very painful. Like he watched 0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:32.760 these videos and they're like who does something like this? 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:38.040 And now it's being replicated. Sorry, it was replicated again 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:44.280 like throughout his presidency, But throughout the years, a lot 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:48.920